Re: ShopTalk: Great GPS Range Finder
Well "Californios", I'm in the Central Valley, between Fresno and Visalia. Fog, anyone? TFlan --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Alan Brooks wrote: > From: Alan Brooks > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Great GPS Range Finder > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 6:31 AM > Robert, I grew up in Van Nuys - on Burnet, South and East of > Burbank and > Sepulveda. It's only up to 70 here in Livermore, East > of San > Francisco. Gotta love these Santa Ana's. > Unfortunately, we're getting > desperate for rain/snow up here "in the North", > which means you will be > desperate for water this summer down there. Sigh. > > Alan Brooks > Livermore, CA > > At 04:54 PM 1/13/2009 -0800, you wrote: > >Gee Ed it's 88 degrees here today. I played a > round of golf this weekend > >and had to wear shorts. When I get home from work I > have to put on the > >air conditioner!!! :) > > > > > >Sincerely, > >Robert Devino > >14252 Delano St. > >Van Nuys, Ca. 91401 > >(818) 770-0475 -- Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
Re: ShopTalk: New Golf Group
Hey John, I'm into at least a few of those subjects. I've been making beer for about 20 - 25 years. I keep it in 5 gal soda kegs shot with CO2 - usually 2 kegs at a time in a converted fridge. Usually 5 gal of amber ale, 5 gal of some kind of stout (oatmeal stout at the moment). Bottles are too much of a pain. Started fly fishing about 15 years ago. Lots of fun, especially since I'm near the Sierras - Yosemite, Sequoia Nat'l Forest, etc. I think its called fishing rather than catching for a good reason. A year ago I tripped and fell (sober, too) and tore up my left wrist. Therapy became learning guitar. I really suck at it but I can read music, and JanFlan's a musician, so I have a built-in instructor. Fun stuff. Let's see, what else? I recently acquired a couple of Macs - a G4 Tower and an iBook G4 that I use exclusively now. I can't get DSL where I live, or cable. Satellite's more than I want to spend. So I hooked up with Cricket Broadband. Loaded the software on 3 computers. All I do is unplug the broadband modem from a USB port and connect to one of the other computers. Pretty fast compared to dial-up - 550K - 900K. There's other stuff as well but not used as much as I once did - b & W darkroom, 4x5 cameras, Ansel Adams school, etc. Hell, even now, I've been elected to the CC board of directors. Oh boy, what joy! I'll take a look at the site. Try not to contaminate it ;-) TFlan --- On Mon, 12/15/08, j...@clubmaker-online.com wrote: > From: j...@clubmaker-online.com > Subject: ShopTalk: New Golf Group > To: shoptalk@mail.msen.com > Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 12:53 PM > I'd like to pass along information on a new online group > that I > started today called NThuz. > > NThuz is a new online social community for golfers, mobile > gadgeteers, craft beer drinkers and home brewers, music, > ipod, and > Mac lovers, photographers, fisherman, car tuners, chefs, > guitarists, > gardeners, cyclists, snowmobilers, & more. > > Upload your favorite videos, music, and photographs. Start > your own > interest group and discuss the latest in gadgets in our > discussion > forum. Share how-to advice, golf equipment reviews and > swing advice, > gardening tips, snow conditions, recipes, and more in the > chat room > or at our blog or start your own group covering whatever > you're > enthusiastic about. > > Go to http://nthuz.com for signup info. You'll need a > screen name (or > simply use your name) and email address to sign up. > Let me know what you think. Thought I'd offer it up to > Shoptalkers first. > > -- > > > Thanks! > John Muir > shoptalk > > skype: jhmuir > AIM: golfcas...@mac.com > 810.923.7396 > http://clubmaker-online.com > http://gripscience.com > clubmaker.mobi -- Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
Re: ShopTalk: 7-iron 353 cpm grip on / 363 cpm grip off - how?
Well, o.k. maybe he didn't say "in all cases a stiffer flex is better", but that's what I recall during the multitude of back and forths we had. Certainly I could be wrong but honestly, I don't recall a time when Lloyd said a softer flex was best. No matter though, I'm old and perhaps my memory is fading. It certainly did regress re;FitChip. Hope it doesn't turn into another long thread. If it does, I'm out. Repetition fast become boring. TFlan > > While I'm on the subject... > > At 12:16 PM 12/15/2008, TFLAN wrote: > >In every instance, Lloyd insisted that the stiffer the > shaft the better. > > That is not true. Lloyd has insisted that the closer to the > FitChip > recommendation, the better. And, for MOST of us who had > experienced a > FitChip fitting, that meant stiffStiffSTIFF!!! But at least > one > clubfitter who reported (on ShopTalk or SpineTalk) said > that the > recommendation for him came out "a wet noodle"; > he couldn't control > the club with that soft a shaft. > > The fact is that FitChip often prescribes rather extreme > frequencies > -- but not always way too stiff. If you look at the > variations of > release timing of swings -- and understand how FitChip > theory turns > release timing into a shaft fitting -- you would expect its > > recommended frequency variation to be huge. (I can go into > this in > more detail if anybody cares. But, if nobody cares, I'm > just as happy > to drop it.) > > Cheers! > DaveT -- Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
Re: ShopTalk: 7-iron 353 cpm grip on / 363 cpm grip off - how?
". . . I just wanted to let you know that > somewhere in between > what Lloyd says and what you Naysayers say lies the truth." Dave D: The quoted line above just reinforces my argument. According to Lloyd his device is, essentially, infallible - stiffer is better. No doubt you could go back to the archives and read the many email discussions among LHack, Dr. T, me and many others. In every instance, Lloyd insisted that the stiffer the shaft the better. You'll also note that regardless of the device being used, I've consistently said that after all is said and done, the proof of the fitting is in the performance - the empirical data - which is what you're saying. You have to interpret data, watch how he swings, etc., and then try to find the right fit for your client. My argument is and will remain, there's no single way to get the best result for a golfer. Spend a zillion bucks and you still have to rely on experience and empiricism. Just my opinion, to which I'm richly entitled ;-) TFlan -- Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
Re: ShopTalk: 7-iron 353 cpm grip on / 363 cpm grip off - how?
Harry; You're arguing with a guy who knows everything-pointless. Better be careful or we'll get Lloyd back here ;-( TFlan --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Harry F. Schiestel wrote: > From: Harry F. Schiestel > Subject: ShopTalk: 7-iron 353 cpm grip on / 363 cpm grip off - how? > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 10:06 PM > What do you use solid steel rebar? The recommended > frequency of the 7-Iron is just under > X-Stiff flex. > > > > So with grip off, lets assume the target frequency of this > 7-iron per Lloyd's recommendation is 363 > cpm. Let's also assume a 37 inch 7-Iron. How do you > make a 7-Iron at 363cpm, 10.2 Flex (+ > Flex) . this is 4.7-X Stiff > > > > 7-IRON at 37" (no grip) > > 371 cpm, 11.0 Flex - I assume this to be X+ Flex > > 367 cpm, 10.5 Flex - I assume this to be X Flex > > 361 cpm, 10.0 Flex - I assume this to be + Flex > > 357 cpm, 9.5 Flex - I assume this to be Flex > > 351 cpm, 9.0 Flex - I assume this to be XXX+ Flex > > 347 cpm, 8.5 Flex - I assume this to be XXX Flex > > 341 cpm, 8.0 Flex - I assume this to be XX+ Flex > > 337 cpm, 7.5 Flex - I assume this to be XX Flex > > 331 cpm, 7.0 Flex - I assume this to be X+ Flex > > 327 cpm, 6.5 Flex - I assume this to be X Flex > > 321 cpm, 6.0 Flex - I assume this to be S+ Flex > > 317 cpm, 5.5 Flex - I assume this to be S Flex > > 311 cpm, 5.0 Flex - I assume this to be R+ Flex > > 307 cpm, 4.5 Flex - I assume this to be R Flex > > _ > > From: owner-shopt...@mail.msen.com > [mailto:owner-shopt...@mail.msen.com] On Behalf Of Robert > Devino > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:18 PM > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how? > > > > grip on > > > Sincerely, > Robert Devino > 14252 Delano St. > Van Nuys, Ca. 91401 > (818) 770-0475 > > _ > > From: Harry F. Schiestel > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 11:18:56 AM > Subject: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how? > > When Lloyd's gizmo said 7-Iron at 353 cpm does his > software assume grip on or grip off for this > value? Just wondering the assumption. Harry > > _ -- Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
Re: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how?
Yes indeedy! You may recall we went through this exercise a couple years ago, with no significant results or agreement. I've said many times that the letter designation for flex, like the number designation for irons is essentially meaningless. Every mfr has a different take on what's "R" or "S" or the like. That's one of the things I liked about the now gone Precision Composites method. I ordered shafts in frequency ranges rather than by letter. That company of course offered "R" flexes but with a choice of R+, R, and R-. Each of which was in frequency range. I used to order, for example, 3 of each, putting the higher flex (higher freq) shafts in the short irons, and the softer freqs in the long irons. Better still, all PC shafts had long tip lengths for additional tweaking. And, they were inexpensive. I got mine direct from the distributor in So CA. Numbers on irons are the same, misleading thing. I hit my 28 deg 7 iron farther than you hit your 32 deg 7 iron, for instance. So there's another good item to get exercised over ;-) TFlan --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Harry F. Schiestel wrote: > From: Harry F. Schiestel > Subject: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how? > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 1:07 PM > This sure has opened up a can of worms, what is a true R, S, > X flex? -- Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
Re: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how?
The 254 gm tip weight I use is a modifed drill chuck. I use it to establish freqs on sets of uncut iron shafts. That's for sorting them. When putting clubs together I use the actual heads, which are also weighted to so-called "standard" weights starting with an assumed 254 gram 5 iron head, then up and down the set 7 grams apart. On woods I use the heads after weight sorting the shafts. Fairly basic stuff. T --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Harry F. Schiestel wrote: From: Harry F. Schiestel Subject: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how? To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 5:42 PM TFlan you are indeed correct, it's important to also state the tip weight used. For irons and woods I use a 205 gram drill chuck. What do you use for wood shafts, do you still use 254 grams or do you drop it down to 205 gram wt.? I wonder what the difference in cpm would be using a GS 5" butt clamp going from 205 gram to 254 gram tip weight? Anyone knows, I would like to know what the drop in cpm's would be with using an extra 49 grams wt. Thanks, Harry Schiestel www.myGolfDNA.com -Original Message- From: owner-shopt...@mail.msen.com [mailto:owner-shopt...@mail.msen.com] On Behalf Of TFLAN Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:33 PM To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Subject: Re: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how? How come you don't mention tip weight? That is certainly a major factor in determining freqs regardless of clamp insertion depth. Freq'ing with grip on only shows fewer cpm's and has nothing to do with the flex of the shaft, It's simply a matter of choice, as long as the choice is consistent, IMO. I prefer no grip testing. And, I use a 254 gram tip weight and a 5" clamp insertion. TFlan -- Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
Re: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how?
How come you don't mention tip weight? That is certainly a major factor in determining freqs regardless of clamp insertion depth. Freq'ing with grip on only shows fewer cpm's and has nothing to do with the flex of the shaft, It's simply a matter of choice, as long as the choice is consistent, IMO. I prefer no grip testing. And, I use a 254 gram tip weight and a 5" clamp insertion. TFlan --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Robert Devino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Robert Devino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how? > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 12:15 PM > Hi Harry > > Why not a 5" inch clamp. The BTR shaft is designed > by the same guy that designed the rifle shafts. It is > basically his next generation of rifle shaft but improved in > the fact that with the new machinery he has now he > doesn't need to reinforce the tip, so the BTR > doesn't swing weight quite as heavy as a rifle shaft > would. All shafts that Kim Braly designs are designed to > be frequencied with a 2.5" clamp not a 5" clamp. > I do use a 5" clamp on other manufacturers shafts. If > you do any work with a Rifle , KB Steel , or a BTR and you > don't use a 2.5" clamp you will not get a shaft to > play the way Kim designed them too. If your using a > 5" clamp to build rifles or KB steels to a rifle chart > then your actually building about 20 - 25 cycles to soft. > example if you build a rifle shaft to a 6.0 with a 5" > clamp your really building something more in the range of a > 4.0 . > > Grip or grip off is a good question. I did mine with grip > off. Personally I always frequency with grip off becuase > for one thing you can change a clubs frequency by changing > what grip they use and to just have some kind of shop > standard I went with grip off for our builds. Loyd the guy > that wrote the program for the FitChip said he does grip > on. But what if the fitting club doesn't have the same > grip as the grip he wants to use ?? This is a personal > thing that varies from builder to builder or fitter to > fitter. Like I said we are experimenting with this thing > right now to see if we want to actually use it or not. > > I don't know how a 334 cpm gives you a stiffer flex > than a 343 cpm I am hoping you just have your numbers > crossed. But your absolutely right I had to used a DG X > 100 to get there, no way I could get there with any BTR or > Rifle shaft. > Sincerely, > Robert Devino > 14252 Delano St. > Van Nuys, Ca. 91401 > (818) 770-0475 > > > > > > From: Harry F. Schiestel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 10:54:22 PM > Subject: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how? > > > Hi Robert, > > Why do you not use a 5” clamp like most other clubmakers > so cpm numbers can be compared easily? Just curious! > > When you specify “"FitChip" fitting it > recommend that I be using a 7-iron cycling at 353 > cycles using a 5" clamp.” > I have a question … does this stated number assume a grip > on or a grip off? > > My son plays a 7-iron at length 36.75. Using 5 inch > clamp, it is 343 cpm or 7.9 flex with grip off and 334 cpm > or 8.1 flex with grip on. So basically he is playing the > equivalent of a Rifle Flex 8.0 = XX-Stiff. > > What steel shaft would you have to buy to get it to be a > XXX-Stiff flex, which would be close to your stated 353 > cpm? I do not think a DG X-100 tipped will give you this > kind of number unless you have an extremely low swingweight, > and many Rifle shafts are sold up to 6.5 flex. Just > curious how you build a demo 7-iron with steel shaft at XXX > flex? > > Thanks Harry S > www.myGolfDNA.com > > > > From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert > Devino > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:18 PM > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Performance benefits of long drivers > > You can put any club in a 1 handicapers hand and they > will hit it just fine in just a few swings. They might not > hit it as well as a well fitted club but they will adjust > their swing and hit it pretty good. Put that long driver > in the average golfers hand and they will loose accuracy for > sure. It's just plain harder for them to get the club > around and hit the center of the face. If you doubt this > gt some of your buddys together and some imact tape and go > test it out. > > Now Dave your gonna love this. Recently we have started &g
RE: ShopTalk: GolfCast
On my Apple it's called "view", at the top of the screen. Highlight the text you deem too small, click on View, click on text size, and make it bigger or smaller by choosing whichever suits your eyesight. T --- On Thu, 11/20/08, Jack's Golf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Jack's Golf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: ShopTalk: GolfCast > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > Date: Thursday, November 20, 2008, 4:16 PM > Tom- > > What is the button? > > Jack > > > > _ > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Tom > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 4:21 PM > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: GolfCast > > > > Yeah - I have a button on my computer that allows me to > increase or decrease > type size. Also have a "magnifying" > function". You probably have the same on > your computer. Try it. It could help. > > TFlan > > > Robert Devino wrote: > > Can any one read that last post ? itsy bitsy teent > tiny type ? > > > > What paint is any one out there painting driver heads > (titanium not wood > ones) using? especially what clear coat ??? > > > > > Sincerely, > Robert Devino > 14252 Delano St. > Van Nuys, Ca. 91401 > (818) 770-0475 > > > > > > _ > > From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: shoptalk@mail.msen.com > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 2:08:37 PM > Subject: ShopTalk: GolfCast > > Added a new video page called GolfCast. Graphite Design > factory tour, a > funny Golf Pride spot, a vid by AGCP head Roy Nix, and a > short Fuji teaser > spot for their new shaft line. I hope you enjoy it! > > > > http://www.clubmaker-online.com/golfcast.html > > -- > > > > > John Muir > > shoptalk > > > skype: jhmuir > AIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 810.923.7396 > http://clubmaker-online.com > <http://clubmaker-online.com/> > http://gripscience.com <http://gripscience.com/> > clubmaker.mobi -- Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
Re: ShopTalk: Shaft Skinz
This may be the same company that's selling "guitar skins". I've seen a few - not my cuppa tay ;-) TFlan --- On Fri, 10/17/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: ShopTalk: Shaft Skinz > To: shoptalk@mail.msen.com > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 9:22 AM > I found a new product called Shaft Skinz that will be of > interest to > clubmakers, pro shops, and golf shops looking for a unique > and fun > product to offer their customers. > > Pros such as Rory Sabbatini, Tim Petrovic, Nick Flanagan, > Parker > McLachlin, Johan Edfors, Kelli Kuehne and Women's > British Open Champ > Ji-Yai Shin have customized their golf shafts with Shaft > Skinz. > > Rory's Skull and Cross Bones putter and Ji-Yai's > Flame driver are > pictured at the Shaft Skinz web site. > > You may have seen Shaft Skinz on The Golf Channel's > "Fore Inventors > Only" TV show where they finished in the top ten and > drew a lot of > praise from the panelists. > > Shaft Skinz are decorated shrink sleeves that fit over and > cling to > your putter (straight or bent), wedge, driver, or iron > shafts and are > heated with a hair dryer for a tight and protective fit on > steel or > graphite shafts. No need to remove grips during > installation. > > They're available in 7 designs offering 40 color > options including > Camo, Champagne, Confetti, New Fire, Puzzle, Skull, and > Snake and > come in packs of four. > > They won't perceptibly change shaft performance, are > easy to install, > and are conforming. > > Shaft Skinz is looking for retailers to sell and offer > installation > and you can contact company owner Martin Greeves at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more information . Those looking > to purchase > at retail should refer to their web site at > http://shaftskinz.com > -- > > > Thanks! > John Muir > shoptalk -- Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
Re: ShopTalk: reshaft of Titleist 907 D2
It's an aluminum sleeve. Nothing special to do. Just carefully applied heat and a good head pusher (shaft puller). But, see my response to another post for a description of a problem I had with one. I've done about a dozen reshafts on these heads, but the only time I tried to cut a corner I ran into a big problem. TFlan --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Tom Janson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Tom Janson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: ShopTalk: reshaft of Titleist 907 D2 > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 7:30 PM > Hosel looks like it is a separate piece than the head. Is > there anything special I need to do to remove this shaft? > > Thanks, > > Tom Janson > > > > -- > Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. > Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/ -- Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
Re: ShopTalk: reshaft of Titleist 907 D2
Drilling the old shaft tip to make a blind bore is a fairly common practice. But there's one caveat - be extremely careful when drilling. The slightest deviation from center can result in you drilling through the aluminum sleeve and into the hollow head. Take it from one who has done it. The aluminum bits will fall into the head and you'll have rattles galore. I eventually solved the problem I had when it happened with a head I was reshafting. I was in a hurry to get the job done and rather than stick the head in a drill press vise I did it freehand. Big mistake! I loaded the head with rat glue to stop the rattles. Then, to cover the hole in the hosel, I cut a piece from an aluminum can, sanded it to rough it up, bent it around a drill bit to get a shape, and epoxied it over the hole. Then I stuck the new shaft in. After it was ready, I hit some shots with it. No problem. Worst of all, no charge to the customer. Fortunately the shaft was one I had on hand - a pull out. So I had nothing invested in the shaft, but a couple hours labor was lost. Lesson learned after about 40 years of doing this stuff - "always follow your own advice!!!" TFlan The other > possibility (if you're > going to go with a 35-mm insertion depth) is to cut off the > old shaft flush > with the top of the hosel and drill the old shaft out to > your insertion > depth, leaving the old shaft in the bore through as a plug. > > Alan Brooks > > > At 07:30 PM 10/6/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >Hosel looks like it is a separate piece than the head. > Is there anything > >special I need to do to remove this shaft? Thanks, Tom > Janson > >-- > >Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. > >Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/ > > -- > Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. > Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/ -- Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
Re: ShopTalk: Technical Articles
Hey John; Didn't we already do this? What's missing? I recently had great success removing Winn grips as well as most others with nary a failure. Also been blowing some on. TFlan --- On Wed, 9/24/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: ShopTalk: Technical Articles > To: shoptalk@mail.msen.com > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 7:38 AM > I'm looking for clubmaking articles to add to my > resource pages. > How-to, cheapo shortcuts and workarounds, fitting, shaft > profiling...anything about the technical aspects of custom > clubmaking. I'd credit the author and link to your web > site if > applicable. Any interest? > -- > > > > > Thanks! > John Muir > shoptalk > > skype: jhmuir > AIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 810.923.7396 > http://clubmaker-online.com > http://gripscience.com > clubmaker.mobi > > -- > Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. > Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/ -- Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
Re: ShopTalk: frequency
Ahh, another potential thread upon which many will opine. I agree with Prof. T in every regard here, but (and Dr T, as you are well-aware, there's always one of them with me), I wonder how one can select the "correct model shaft" when there are so many? No doubt the bulk of subscribers to these pages are not in the business full-time and most probably don't have the necessary equipment to do the testing. Frequency machines are relatively cheap - the "Club Scout"comes to mine, and spine finders from Colin Dick don't cost much either. But how to select the right brand? What did that old impossible to understand English playwright say? "Ah,there's the rub". TFlan --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Dave Tutelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Dave Tutelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Butt frequency remains a good indicator of the overall > stiffness of a > shaft. The stiffness profile is important, but you > don't have to do a > lot of frequency matching to build a set. Here are the > facts as I see them: > > (1) Whether you profile by frequency or deflection, a given > model of > shaft has a particular shape of profile. There might be > some small > variation from sample to sample, and perhaps a little more > variation > from flex to flex within the model. But the operative word > is "small". > > (2) That shape of profile will have some effect, beyond > just the > single number represented by butt frequency. Specifically, > it can > affect the trajectory and the feel of the club. > > (3) Once you determine the right model of shaft -- based on > things > INCLUDING the profile, but also weight, torque, etc -- you > can match > the set using butt frequency. Difference from shaft to > shaft within > the same model can probably be ignored when matching, as > long as the > right model was chosen. > > This is no different from when you left on holiday. You > have ALWAYS > had to make a wise choice in the model of shaft before you > began the > shaft matching/trimming. The difference is that now we have > a bit > more of a handle on how MODELS differ one from another. If > you are > geared up to measure shaft profiles, you are in a better > position to > tell which model shafts are likely to behave similarly. > > Hope this helps, > DaveT > > -- > Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. > Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/ -- Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/
Re: ShopTalk: Fujikure 360
Thanks for the offer. I think I have a shaft coming from another ST'er. Appreciate it though. TFlan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > This probably won't help but I have a new Fujikura > Pro95 X flex -- cheap. > > > Rich "Mac" McHattie > Mac's Golf > > > -Original Message- > From: Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com; spine > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 7:15 am > Subject: ShopTalk: Fujikure 360 > > > My favorite customer "dropped" his newly shafted > Titleist 905 and broke the shaft (again). I think he > dropped it pretty hard against an offending tree. I > have a running tab for this guy . . . irons, woods, > putters, you name it and I've reshafted it.? > ? > So now I'm looking for Fuji 360 "X"flex driver > shaft. I checked with GW, GS, GSA, BandM, Diamond > Tour and a couple others. None have it.? > ? > So, anyone know where I might find one?? > ? > Thanks? > ? > TFlan? > >
Re: ShopTalk: Re: [SpinetalkersForum] Shaft flex redux
But I asked for MORE info than butt frequency. However, to answer your question as directly as possible; one of the functions of building a club is to determine frequencies. I think we can agree on that. Butt frequency is the most commonly used first step (or rather with me, finding the spine is first). Once butt freq is determined we can go to tip freqs, mid-shaft freqs, overall weight, etc. to try to determine a profile for the shaft. I believe a manufacturer can do the same thing more easily simply because of the cost of the equipment required to learn the data. I think too, that torque, shaft weight, butt and tip diameter (which are in the main, already included) are parts of the equation. And I think the letter designators should be eliminated entirely. Unless they're associated with the above-mentioned data. You may or may not recall a company called "Precision Composites". A clubmaker could order shafts from them by frequency ranges, which were associated by letter designations and color codes. The shafts were for the most part inexpensive, but the very basic data provided at the very least gave the clubmaker a start on the ordering process. There must be SOME data other than letter designations. Otherwise the shafts are purchased by reputation, by color (remember the UST Yellow thing that Olazable won the Masters with?) I couldn't get enough of those ugly turds to satisfy demand. Let's talk about another thing in the world of shafts, now that UST comes to mind. A UST 70 doesn't weight 70 grams. It weighs closer to 80 grams. Why? The paint job! I have about 2 dozen of those crappy shafts on hand and there isn't any sensible correlation to what's on the label or in UST's blurbs as regards weight or alphabetical flex ratings. In a word, they're crap. So you may believe that butt freq is immaterial, but my friend, you have to start somewhere. TFlan --- Tim Hewitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > All I want you to do is answer the question. > > What do you think that the butt frequency printed on > the shaft will > tell you. > > How do you find this information useful? > > That's all. > > It's a simple question, and the same one I've asked > you every post - > though you continue to ignore the question. > > If you can't answer it that's fine, but it's a > simple question. > > What do you think this number tells you? > > As a shaft designer (and I am one), I would want to > know your reason > for this request before I would even consider it. > > -t > >
Re: ShopTalk: Re: [SpinetalkersForum] Shaft flex redux
But Roy (and others reading this) Didn't you get the point? I'm asking MANUFACTURERS! to provide more info. What's so hard about that to understand? Why put it on the clubmaker to figure out? When I was doing this stuff for a living I'd routinely order 2 dozen shafts for an iron set of 9 clubs. Why? Because there was no consistency among the shafts. I weight-sorted, frequency sorted and sent back the "outliers" . Why should a clubmaker have to do that? Does it make any sense at all? So, I started this thread again. Some of you long-timers may recall I did this about 10 years ago, alas, to no avail. I got the same insipid responses I'm getting today. That's a damn shame. Sure, I have a freq meter. I have a SW scale. I have a gram scale. I have a spine finder. I have a loft and lie machine. I have a lie board. I have a swing speed meter. I have a "tempo" meter. I have all that stuff. What I do not have is full information from the company that builds the stuff. Is that wrong?Do you not agree that the info can be helpful? Geez! TFlan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > All you need to find this information is a frequency > machine, a 205 gram weight and a 454 gram weight to > put on the tip of the shafts, and the instructions > for where to measure the shafts and how. > > To use the data for fitting, there are shaft > profiling software packages available. Software from > Tom Wishon and from Jerry Hoefling will allow you to > analyze the shaft data and determine by swing speed, > transition move, where the golfer's release point is > in the swing exactly what cpm they need in each > section once combined with the other data you > already collect. > > Once you have this information it is simply a matter > of looking at the shaft data base to find a shaft > that most closely matches the profile you have > determined the golfer needs. Both programs have > hundreds of the most popular shafts on the market > already profiled in their data base when you > purchase the software. > > The software for what it does is very reasonably > priced. > > AGCP - Greatest "Little" Club Clubfitters > Organization in the World > > Roy Nix > McNix Custom Golf > www.McNixGolf.com > Founder: Assoc. of Golf Clubfitting Professionals > www.agcpgolf.com > Certified Rifle Center > 706-324-7490 > On Time Printing > www.NixOnTimePrinting.com > "Some men see things as they are and say why... I > dream of things that never were and say why not." > - George Bernard Shaw > > - Original Message - > From: Tom > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:34 PM > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Re: [SpinetalkersForum] > Shaft flex redux > > > I don't know how I would label them. That's why I > think mfr's should be doing a better job, not the > end user. If all the info you just presented was > already in the documentation or printed on the shaft > it would be a lot easier to make decisions as to > which shaft to buy, wouldn't it? How much equipment > would a small clubmaker have to invest in to gain > that info? > > You can disagree all you want - fine with me, but > buying equipment from advertisements and "what > Tiger's using" is nonsense! All I'm suggesting is > that clubmakers be offered more than the > alphabetical nonsense we have now, and have had for > as long as I've been doing this stuff. > > And please note . . . . I said the alphabet should > be tossed and solid info provided. I also think > numbers should be deleted from irons - your 30 > degree 5 iron doesn't go as far as my 27 degree 5 > iron. Mark them all with degrees. > > There, there's another item you can disagree with. > > > TFlan > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > JMHO, but I don't think he is being a wise ass > and I don't think it is tech bullshit. > > I am pretty sure that if you have two shafts > with 250 cpm butt frequency and the mid sections of > the shafts are 40 cpms different and the tip > sections are 75 cpm different those two shafts are > not going to play the same or feel the same. > > So how would you label them? > > AGCP - Greatest "Little" Club Clubfitters > Organization in the World > > Roy Nix > McNix Custom Golf > www.McNixGolf.com > Founder: Assoc. of Golf Clubfitting > Professionals > www.agcpgolf.com > Certified Rifle Center > 706-324-7490 > On Time Printing > www.NixOnTimePrinting.com > "Some men see things as they are and say why... > I dream
Re: ShopTalk: Re: [SpinetalkersForum] Shaft flex redux
NO! NO! NO! NO! You don't "just build to frequency". Jeez, what the hell are you saying? There are too many parameters to consider other than freq. If it's a joke, put a friggin' smiley after the comment. I sure hope that isn't how you do it. Wow, how embarrassing that would be. TFlan --- Robert Devino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just build to frequency and forget what a shaft is > labeled > > Sincerely, > Robert Devino > 14252 Delano St. > Van Nuys, Ca. 91401 > (818) 770-0475 > > > > - Original Message > From: Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 11:41:18 AM > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Re: [SpinetalkersForum] Shaft > flex redux > > Clearly you're looking for an argument and I ain't > in the mood to argue. So read my post to Roy, on > shoptalk. > > And play a little closer attention to the meaning of > my post. I simply think mfr's could and should > provide a hell of a lot more information than the > alphabet. Fuji's "A" flex is different than say, > UST's "A" flex, often by a significant amount of > freqs. I further expanded upon the original post to > a couple guys that you might want to take a look at > and ponder. > > I'd very much appreciate a little more positive > input as to what a mfr should/could do with their > products. So far all I've seen it stuff like what > you're offering which frankly, doesn't advance the > discussion. Try a little harder and ask questions or > posit what you think should be included in the info > provided by mfrs, rather than asking me what I'd do. > > > TFlan > > > Tim Hewitt wrote: > I'm not being a wise ass, I'm simply asking you what > you would do with shafts marked 245, 251, 260 on the > butt? This means nothing if they are different shaft > models. Butt frequency by itself does not relate to > how a shaft performs, nor can it be equated to shaft > stiffness or shaft flex. > > What would you do with these numbers that you cannot > do with A,R,S,X today? They are both equally > meaningless. > > -t > > On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Tom wrote: > > > Oh please . . . spare me the tech bullshit. I took a > first shot at it. If you have a better idea present > it rather than being a wise ass. > > TFlan > > > Tim Hewitt wrote:And exactly what do you think this > would tell you? > > > Comparing the butt frequencies of unlike shaft > models tells you nothing more about that shaft than > a letter designator does. > > This is not really going to help - at all... > > -t > > On Aug 4, 2008, at 12:47 PM, Tom wrote: > > > Choose a raw length. Choose a tip weight. Choose a > clamp length. Flick > the assembly. Write down the number and print it on > the shaft. > > >
Re: ShopTalk: Re: [SpinetalkersForum] Shaft flex redux
Well Tim; I see that it's pointless to go on with you on this subject. I asked for more info from mfr's. You said in effect ANY freq info would be essentially meaningless. I said further, that I would like to see a lot of info from the mfr's. Your argument remains the same "It's worthless". Too bad. This is a question that if answered by mfrs (info BTW that I've been asking for since I started in this biz in the mid-60's), if provided it would make it a lot easier on inventory, let alone clubmaking. If you don't agree, well, that's your opinion. Sorry to learn that about you. So good luck in all your future ventures. I'll keep bitching at mfrs. Maybe some day a mfr will provide useful information in a way that all of us can understand and use it. TFlan --- Tim Hewitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sorry - you proposed the new system and I simply > asked what value it > would be. > > I have no answers, but I do know that butt frequency > alone is of no > more value than a letter designator. Neither means > anything useful in > and of itself. > > And in spite of you clearly being a jerk about this, > I'm not looking > for an argument, only asking you what the value of > the number is. You > seem to think it adds value - and I'm saying it > means nothing > independent of the model of the shaft. > > I can give you 10 shafts with exactly the same > number as butt frequency > - and they will all play completely different one to > another. One will > be a true A flex, another a true R, another a true S > and yet another a > true X. If you've been following any of the > discussions on shaft > profiling over the last 5 years you certainly have > heard this before. > > Clearly your second paragraph notes you don't > understand what I'm > saying here. > > Fuji does not have one butt frequency that denotes A > flex - and neither > does UST. Both companies will have an A flex shaft > design that is butt > soft and tip stiff which will have a lower butt > frequency than an "A" > flex shaft design that is butt stiff and tip soft. > > The number itself is meaningless without knowing how > the shaft profiles. > > -t > > On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:41 PM, Tom wrote: > > > Clearly you're looking for an argument and I > ain't in the mood to > > argue. So read my post to Roy, on shoptalk. > > > > And play a little closer attention to the meaning > of my post. I > > simply think mfr's could and should provide a > hell of a lot more > > information than the alphabet. Fuji's "A" flex is > different than say, > > UST's "A" flex, often by a significant amount of > freqs. I further > > expanded upon the original post to a couple guys > that you might want > > to take a look at and ponder. >
Re: ShopTalk: Re: [SpinetalkersForum] Shaft flex redux
Well thank you Dr Tutelman. I knew there would be at least once voice in the ether that made sense - along with mine ;-) TFlan > TFlan is completely correct that the manufacturers > give us no useful > information about the shafts, and actually grossly > mislead us with > the letter designations. > > FWIW, > DaveT > >
RE: ShopTalk: Club repair, who gets the most?
--- Bob Barrette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hah; Actually, I got unfinished, "raw" heads from a couple of suppliers.The heads had sole plates already installed but there was plenty of wood left to remove via rough filing and sanding. Hosels weren't drilled out either. I vividly recall one head that a customer wanted to be "jumbo". 2 1/4" deep face. The head/shaft combo weighed something in the "F9" swingweight range. I pulled the sole plate and drilled a "honeycomb" into the head to get it somewhere in the D range. That was close to the first "hollow head" driver made of wood. I never learned if the guy could hit it though. TFlan > > Tom: > You forgot to mention turning down heads from wooden > blocks, drilling the hosels, shaping the heads, > setting and sanding the inserts, masking the heads > for staining or painting,etc.etc > Not too many today have gone through these times, > that's when we were truly called Club Makers, and > not much money to be made, but we enjoyed doing it. > > Regards, > > Bob
RE: ShopTalk: Club repair, who gets the most?
In fact, I did a lot of business with several private clubs -CC's. Mostly it was loft and lie and tricky reshafts - "tricky" in that back in the past there were still a lot of real, wooden headed clubs. So there was plenty of re-whipping, re-weighting, refinishing and some reshafting. There even was, gasp! actual wrapped leather grips on underlisting! Imagine doing that these days! I'd guess there aren't a dozen guys on these forums who have a clue as to how to work on a real, wooden club. I mean no disrespect, I thinks it's simply the way of things. Of course today's clubs are a cakewalk to work on. Metal headed drivers and fairways and utilities are simple and not very time-consuming. Certainly not challenging. Which leads me, naturally, to the "custom club maker". Note I didn't say "club fitter". I'm talking about the guy who calls himself a custom clubmaker who's little more than a cut, glue and stick guy. I can't imagine how that guy can stay in business and make enough money to support himself, let alone a workforce and a family. I was fortunate to come into the biz when there was still plenty of "real" club work, as mentioned above, and I was fortunate enough to sell out my biz at a time when work was plentiful for a custom shop. As it happens though, the guy who bought me out got into the OEM sales end of the biz because there wasn't enough repair work. So the combination of club repair, custom fitting, OEM sales, and long hours make my buyer marginally comfortable. He has one employee, full-time, a wife doing the books and making calls on golf courses for business. They're doing o.k. But if they were doing what I did only, they'd be out of biz poste haste. I'm out of it now and glad to be out. The little L&L stuff I do, the occasional reshaft, spine, frequency matching keeps me in beer money. But to get back in the biz again? Today? No way my friend. TFlan --- Tom Wishon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >
Re: ShopTalk: R7 reshaft to .335
You can dig through the ST archives for a lot of ways to shim up a shaft tip. One method I've used, and proselytized is to use fiberglass window screen for the shim. Load the tip with epoxy, wrap enough screen material to fill the gap, wet the screen, and "screw" it in. I've done in countless times and never had a failure. I don't like those brass shims at all. They don't seem to do the job for me. There are other ways to shim up a shaft tip, but one thing you should not do is depend on epoxy to fill gaps. The epoxy is used for adhesion, not gap fill. TFlan --- Don M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Can I reshaft an R7 to .335 without using a special > adapter ferrule? I was thinking of using a brass > shim > and then a collared .335 ferrule to help center > everything. It looks like it ought to work but that > is counting on the epoxy as a gap filler in the > enlarged portion of the upper hosel bore. The shim > will help hold the shaft out away from touching the > step in the hosel. Maybe I could even use a masking > tape wrap to take up most of the space in the > stepped > area. > > I'm not opposed to using the right adapter but I > don't > have one on hand. I did one without it a year or > two > ago but maybe I just got lucky. We are talking 90 > MPH > swing speed. > > > >
ShopTalk: igolf
I rec'd my GPS Caddie from igolf Tuesday. I checked it out right away on our course. Distances were way off, an average of over 20%. I contacted igolf. The tech rep said they'd re-map the course and send the info ASAP. The course was re-mapped the next day, Wednesday. I loaded the updated mapping and played today. Distances were either right on the money or off nor more than a yard or two on every hole. The distance measuring function was spot on. I paced from the 200 plate to the 150; readout? 50 yds. 150 to 100, same thing. 100 to green center, 100 exactly. So, for $229 + $29 membership for 50 courses and 1 free mapping of any unmapped course, it beats the other GPS I looked at hands down. TFlan
ShopTalk: igolf
O.K. guys, I bit the bullet and ordered an igolf today. I'll report on it as soon as I give it a good workout. TFlan
Re: ShopTalk: Shaft behaviour
Christopher Columbus? Did he invent a club fitting device? Or are you referring to that syphillis-ridden incompetent who managed to get 2 of his ships to what's now the Dominican Republic? The guy who didn't discover America? The sailor who thought he found the spice route but missed it by thousands of miles and found Jamaica and decimated the population with diseases instead? That guy? Wow, spot on comparison ;-) TFlan - Original Message - From: The Kelley's To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 6:52 PM Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Shaft behaviour Neither did Christopher Columbus . despite all of the rhetoric tossed at him by the educated masses. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 2:28 PMTo: ShopTalk@mail.msen.comSubject: Re: ShopTalk: Shaft behaviour Hey T Flan and all, Lloyd never ever never ever gives up. No matter what. LOL :-). I luv you guys, ~~myKey~~, Mike Phelan
Re: ShopTalk: Shaft behaviour
Well, here's the thing; there's about as much back and forth about this - again, as there was a year ago. However I don't recall anyone on these here pages who was tested with LHack's device other than one guy (who I don't recall). What I do recall is that the tested one wasn't happy at all with the results. I had the opportunity to try one of the devices about 6 months ago, but I was loath to bring it up because of the endless discussions of time past. But since it has started again . . . I met a guy (who I won't identify because he's still using the fitchip) who tested me and my woeful lunge. after 15 - 20 strikes at balls with a driver, the device recommended what amounted to a XX flex shaft in my driver. Now, I've been at this game for a lot of years, both as a one-time near scratch player and as a clubmaker. I've tried just about every combination of flex shafts and heads available. In all those years I was never able to hit any shaft much stronger than one that freq's in the 260 - 270 range. The shaft recommended was over 300 cpm. I didn't have one available but I did have a Fuji "Tour Stiff" in the pile of pullouts, so I stuck it in a 200 gm driver head, the combo of which freq'd out at 277 cpm, and headed to the range. I got mostly low right worm rapers. No distance other than an occasional 180 yarder, and that after what was for me, an herculean swing which damn near provided a hernia to my worse for wear body. My current driver is 45" long, 10 1/2 deg loft, 2 deg closed, D1.The head is 192 grams and the shaft freqs at 240 cpm, spined at noon. That club, combined with my pitiful lurch, gets me about 220 yds on average. Ball flight is moderately high. If I were to use the Fit thingy recommendations I'd never get the ball in the air. So hinges, or not, fulcrums, static vs non, all that means nothing to me cuz for me it didn't work. I'm wondering then, theorists aside, has anyone ever actually tried the FitChip? If so I'd like to hear some empirical comments from you guys. TFlan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 12:57 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Shaft behaviour Darn! It's going to be a Lng Winter!
Re: ShopTalk: Shaft behaviour
Apparently it will go on until "dose" becomes "does". TFlan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Shaft behaviour Please tell me I'm not loosing my mind! Wasn't the Fit Chip subject beaten to death before?
ShopTalk: igolf
Anyone using the "igolf" GPS rangefinder? Like it? Don't like it? It's over $100 less than "SkyCaddy" and it has all the courses I'm likely to use. TFlan
Re: ShopTalk: Educating the consumer (was: New Wishon Book)
Here's a tag on this. a couple of young males at our CC spent some considerable time a few days ago telling me that component clubs are junk. Only OEM stuff is worth buying. No custom "clone crap" can compare favorably, etc. These young men are ages 16 and 14. Where do you suppose they learned this? Why from our pro. Where else? TFlan - Original Message - From: "Dave Tutelman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 2:54 PM Subject: ShopTalk: Educating the consumer (was: New Wishon Book) At 03:05 PM 10/24/2006, Tom Wishon wrote: Jokingly, I will tell you that Search Driver is more of the same in terms of it being pro-custom fitting, pro-clubmaker, and anti-standard clubs off the rack...it is shorter than the first Search book - done consciously so that 'attention deficit' golfers who haven't sat down to read a real book in years can be compelled to find the energy to read it... The book is also written in a dialog form, which is different than the first Search book. This too was done consciously as a way to capture golfers who don't read much anymore in this fast paced internet, bullet-point information age. ...So if we're lucky, it will get publicized much more than the first one - and if that happens, Clubmakers will be getting more phone calls from golfers, which is my/our whole mantra in our work these days. For almost three years, I've been on a team working on a project with a similar aim. John Ford of the Golf Institute of America in Naples FL has produced a video to educate consumers, and it just became a product a little over a week ago. The goal is to wean golfers away from off-the-rack clubs by convincing them they are being ripped off, and that they will get better quality from a good custom clubmaker. As Tom says, there are a lot of people in the target market who won't sit down and read a book. John felt that a video would be a better means to reach that segment, and he has done it well. You can see the promotion for it at http://golfatthenextlevel.com/ . It is a medium-hard sell for the "kit", which will educate the consumer in several ways: * It teaches them the key specs that need to fit them right, and that getting them wrong will hurt their game. * It demonstrates that off-the-rack clubs are NOT the way to get those specs right, and that the big brands are no better and usually worse than custom clubs. * It gives them the tools to test whether their own clubs get it right for their swing, in a number of important ways. (Lie angle, face impact, grip size.) * It gives them an education in how to shop for clubs -- including how to shop for a custom clubfitter. * It convinces the consumer you don't need to mess with your swing; but you do need equipment that fits that swing -- and a solid pre-shot routine that takes out swing variation. Take a look at the web site. The pitch may seem a little over-the-top; it was designed by a direct-marketing professional to generate sales. But the message in the video isn't that different from Tom's in terms of content. It is A LOT more aggressive than Tom has been in taking the OEMs to task. That, and a visual instead of written presentation, are the biggest differences. Take a look. DaveT PS - While I did work on this, and take pride in the result, I have no financial interest in the product. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.0.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.11/493 - Release Date: 10/23/2006
ShopTalk: Yankees and Bill
As long as we're on the subject of baseball, here's story about events in the Bronx - perhaps. TFlan Bill and Hillary are at a Yankees home game, sitting in the first row, with the Secret Service people directly behind them. The place is noisy as hell. One of the Secret Service agents leans forward and whispers to Bill. At first, Clinton stares at the guy, looks at Hillary, looks back at the agent, and shakes his head "no." The agent then says, "Mr. President, it was an unanimous request of the entire team, from the owner of the team to the bat boy". Bill hesitates...but begins to change his mind when the agent tells him the fans would love it! Bill shrugs his shoulders and says, "Ho-Kay! If that is what the people want. C'mere Hilly, baby.." With that, Bill gets up, grabs Hillary by her collar and the seat of her pants, lifts her up, and tosses her right over the wall onto the field. She gets up kicking, swearing, screaming, "Bill you "!^$#@&!". The crowd goes absolutely wild. Fans are jumping up & down, cheering, hooting, and high fiving. Bill is bowing, smiling and waving to the crowd. He leans over to the agent and says, "How about that! I would have never believed how much everyone would enjoy that!" Noticing the agent has gone totally pale, he asks what is wrong. The agent replies, "Sir , I said they want you to throw out the first PITCH."
Re: ShopTalk: Tigers vs. Yanks
Shelly or Keats? Who do they play for? Yanks? Must be
cuz; Tigers 8, "Bronx Bombers" ooh, oh, sob - 3!
Ah hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Heads will roll in Big Town fo' sho'. Maybe the Big
Shipbuilder should spend more than 200 million(!) and buy a better team. Maybe
the Tigers are for sale, or Oakland :-)
TFlan
BTW; Screw Johnny Damon.
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com ; ShopTalk@mail.msen.com
Cc: tflan
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 7:54
AM
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Tigers vs.
Yanks
Not exactly "Shelly or Keats" but its the thought that counts.
--TCM GOLF [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Original message from "tflan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: --
> I hate the Yankees, I hope they lose. I hate the Yankees, I
hope they lose. > I hate the Yankees, I hope they loose. I hate the
Yankees, I hope they lose. > I hate the Yankees, I hope they lose.
> > And if I wasn't clear, I hate the Yankees, I hope they
lose. > > TFlan > > And screw Johnny Damon, too.
> > - Original Message - > From:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: >
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 2:58 PM > Subject: ShopTalk: Tigers
vs. Yanks > > > > Feeling a bit full of myself after
the Tigers beat the Yankees bring the > > playoffs back to Detroit
all tied. I was going offier a certain former > > Bronx
shoptalker! a wage r and was struggling to find something unique to >
> bet. > > How about if the Tigers win this series, he's got to
wear a Magglio > > Ordonez "fro" wig? > > If the Yankees
win, I have to hang out with one or several Derek Jeter's > >
girlfriends. > > What do you think? > > > > --
> > > > John Muir > > 810.923.7396 >
> shoptalk > > http://clubmaker-online.com > >
http://gripscience.com > > http://elevongolf.com > >
> >
Re: ShopTalk: Tigers vs. Yanks
I hate the Yankees, I hope they lose. I hate the Yankees, I hope they lose. I hate the Yankees, I hope they loose. I hate the Yankees, I hope they lose. I hate the Yankees, I hope they lose. And if I wasn't clear, I hate the Yankees, I hope they lose. TFlan And screw Johnny Damon, too. - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 2:58 PM Subject: ShopTalk: Tigers vs. Yanks Feeling a bit full of myself after the Tigers beat the Yankees bring the playoffs back to Detroit all tied. I was going offier a certain former Bronx shoptalker a wager and was struggling to find something unique to bet. How about if the Tigers win this series, he's got to wear a Magglio Ordonez "fro" wig? If the Yankees win, I have to hang out with one or several Derek Jeter's girlfriends. What do you think? -- John Muir 810.923.7396 shoptalk http://clubmaker-online.com http://gripscience.com http://elevongolf.com
Re: ShopTalk: Loft / Lie machine ?
I've owned 4 L&L machines - a Maltby original which was a pile of crap, but it was cheap; a GolfSmith that didn't hold up very well; an original Scotland, and my current machine, another Scotland. I think I'd have traded all of them for a new Mitchell simply because the Mitchell's easier to use. My Scotland's as accurate as any Mitchell ever built. It's sitting on a level surface and I've checked the angles with gauges many times. If I'm really concerned with obtaining an accurate angle I measure the club off the machine first, then bend it in the machine. However, if the Mitchell is priced agreeably (I assume it's used), and it's in good condition, that's what I'd buy. There are some parts available for Scotlands from a couple of companies. The only things that have ever needed replacement on my machine are the upper and lower jaws, so I have purchased 3 sets of them at one time. The last a long time. TFlan - Original Message - From: James Kaar To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:25 PM Subject: ShopTalk: Loft / Lie machine ? Lady & Gents,I've read the forum for about 7 years now, and rarely say much because I'm always in a learning mode, and don't feel qualified to make any contributions. Now I could use your opinion(s).With apologies for asking a question that's probably been answered here 100's of times, I have an opportunity to purchase either a Mitchell or Scotland loft/lie machine (Yes, they have both) from a former employer and really don't know which of these two popular systems is considered the best.Mind sharing your opinion?Thanks a lot!Jim
ShopTalk: Taylor 3 wood
I have a friend who lost (or it was stolen) 3 wood. It's a Taylor Made 580, L flex. Does anyone have one in good shape you're willing to part with? She has driver, 5 and 7 in the set and she wants to match the set. According to her, ebay is not an option she wants to try. Thanks TFlan
ShopTalk: Well, the Open is done
Congratulations to Ogilvy. Condolences to Ferrie. Why Ferrie and not Monty or Mickleson or Furyk? Well, M, M, and F gagged it away. But recall early on the front nine, when Ferrie was cruising along, making pars, and some screwball yelled, a split-second after Ferrie's shot "SUPERMAN"? Innocuous as it may seem, it was enough to rattle Ferrie for a few holes. Which brings me to the point of this, likely my last rant on the Open. Where do the knucklehead fans come from? They can't be golfers. Some of the loudmouth fans, admittedly only a few, act as though they're watching hockey or World Cup Soccer, or football. The louts at the Open this year weren't nearly as stupifyingly dreadful as are the fans in Phoenix, but for sure they're a close second. Screaming at the crack of a tee shot on a 495 yard par four "GO IN THE HOLE" should get those goons a trip to a shrink. You don't hear it at the Masters. You don't hear it at the British Open. And it isn't much of a problem at some other venues in the U.S., but this week at the Open? Incredible. What did Paul Newman's "Butch Cassidy" say in the movie? "WHO ARE THOSE GUYS?" Back to the cave. TFlan
ShopTalk: ESPN's coverage - a rant.
It stinks! I generally don't watch golf on TV, not do I watch paint dry. However I do enjoy watching the majors. So this morning, I tuned to ESPN at about 8:00 a.m. PDT. I watched two talking heads, Berman and Maltby for nearly 5 minutes, chattering about nothing interesting. No golf, just those 2. Shortly after that, another guy came on with something about Tiger Woods. Still, no golf. Then a few commercials. Then Mickleson walking to the putting green. Then Woods lining up a 20 footer for par - a miss. 11 over. Then a guy missing a shot and slamming the club into the ground. Then commercials. Then Jimenez makes birdie. Back to Berman and Maltby. What rotten coverage! I recently read John Daly's book. He was asked about TV coverage. He said "it sucks in the U.S. A putt, a swing, a putt," commercial. In Europe he says, you get coverage of nearly all the players and a variety of shots. He likes Miller, Feherty, and a few others. But Berman? Ugh! So, I very much doubt I'll be looking at ESPN's golf coverage. Hell of it is, the way USGA has set up the course doesn't make for interesting viewing anyway. "We don't want to punish the golfers, we want to define the best." Nonsense. Ah well, back to my cave ;-) TFlan
Re: ShopTalk: Titleist 905T reshaft
I've done a half-dozen so far, using the same techniques as always. Heat it, put it in a puller, heat, apply pressure, and so on. No problems at all. TFlan Scott Bershing wrote: I've read two different themes in regards to reshafting the newer Titleist drivers with the aluminum inserts. One is that Titleist uses a lower temp epoxy to bond the insert to the head, and that it's tough to get the insert off the shaft if it gets pulled. They also claim that even if the insert stays in the head and you reshaft like 'normal' that the epoxy can easily fail. I've read other accounts that claim that there is no difference and you can reshaft like normal. It's looking like I am going to have a 905t reshaft in the near future, and I'm not sure if I should order one of the adapters from Golfworks or not - http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_BB9011 Also wondering if I should just cut the shaft off and drill it to do a standard or blind bore, leaving the factory bore-thru finish. Any advice, input, experiences appreciated. Thanks, Scott
Re: ShopTalk: Anybody out there?
They don't. Not enough weight to make a difference. What works with these are the roughly 6" between the golfer's ears. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Bernie Baymiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 10:24 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Anybody out there? > OK, Tom, here's some theory stuff nobody's discussed here yet (to my > knowledge). > > What makes these driver heads with adjustable weights work as advertised? Is > it all hype? And, it is conceivable that they don't work as well as a well > designed driver head without the weights?
Re: ShopTalk: Tips for out to in swing
Sadly, it seems I have an ability second to none in the heartbreakin' bidness! So buck up, and when you speak of it, be kind ;-) Now for the inside/outside stuff. I went through much of what you're describing. My handicap went from 7 to 14 within a 9 month period. No distance, a lot of pull/push stuff, etc. I was hitting the ball on the range a couple of months ago when our ass't pro yelled at me from the proshop "Flan, you're shutting the face down." What I was doing to compensate for the weak sclaffs was to close the clubface, which of course made it even worse. In desperation I went back to a lesson I had in the early '60's. I think it was called something like "basics". Re-examine grip, feet separation, distance from ball, ball position, hip and shoulder turn, starting down, and so on. Then I started, with a 6 iron, a really simple drill. With feet about 4" apart, I pulled my right foot back from the square setup line about 6", lifted the right heel off the ground, and hit about 10 shots with half-swings, with the ball at mid-stance. Then 10 more full swings/square stance, and back to the narrow stance, and so on. Voila! It started to come back. When I said it isn't possible to hit a ball inside out from a square or open stance, I meant it. Too often what happens when a person starts hitting weak shots to the right, or low pulls, the reason is mostly because there's little or no lower body movement. The club is "cast" from the top, the angle formed between the left arm and club shaft breaks down, and a weak hit results. One way to visualize this is to get a plate, or a disc of some sort, and set it parallel to the intended line. Then simply twist the plate in one direction or another and observe which way the arc of the swing changes. It's interesting. TFlan - Original Message - From: Jen Kuntz To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 5:33 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Tips for out to in swing Tom, you're breakin' my heart congrats on the grandson... what am I going to do with all my spare time?? ; ))Re: square stance... are you saying I must be open or closed to accomplish this poor swing? Honestly... if I had a camera I'd take a video. I don't know when this started but I swear I am square to my line according to the video I've seen of my swing during lessons. To make your head shake a little more... I seemed to start doing this last year some time, at the beginning of the year my index was 10.3 and at the end of the year it was 7.3... all the while losing a lot of distance and accuracy with this. Lowest handicap of my life, but it felt like the most frustrating golf year of my life. Go figure. I was taking lessons this winter indoors to work on it and the instructor just kept saying I'm getting away with it because I'm athletic. I interpret that as "I can't figure out how the h*** you are hitting the damn ball with that swing"!! JenTOM FLANAGAN wrote: Jen, my once and only; You may recall I had a long give and take about this very subject a couple years ago. Briefly, the point was this; unless you adopt a particularly awkward stance, it's physically impossible to drive the clubhead through the hitting zone with an inside path with even mediocre results. As I recall, another one of my idols, Professor Tutelman, agreed, as did several others. Quite simply, ya can't do it from a square stance. Nope. No can do. TFlan BTW: I guess it's over between us, romantically. JanFlan and I became grandparents for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Now, Nolan Gibson Flanagan is "He Who Must Be Obeyed". Son Mike and his SWMBO, Missy, finally came through! So, it's been fun. Try to remember the good times. --- Jen Kuntz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hey gang, I've been fighting an out to in swing path for a little over a year now and having trouble with ways to practise to get rid of it. I tried the "inside approach" thing this winter and it was ok but I don't want to buy one. I've also tried just using a couple sticks/shafts parallel to the swing path on the ground and trying to not hit them. I find I keep hitting the damn inside stick and it just reinforces the problem instead of helping me work through it. Anyone have any drills they've tried that worked for them to get rid of this? Thanks in advance, Jen
Re: ShopTalk: Professional Opinions on OEM lie angles
60° 5 iron. TFlan - Original Message - From: Alan Brooks To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Professional Opinions on OEM lie angles Then let me rephrase the question. If you had to pick a lie angle for your club heads to come with that would be most likely to require the least amount of bending to fit the most golfers, what would it be?AlanAt 08:22 AM 4/24/2006 -0700, you wrote: The problem here is with the use of the word "average". What is it? Does it even exist? Average height? Average arm length? Average set-up to the ball? Which?I've fitted tall guys with 59 deg lies and short guys with 63 deg lies. I used to play with a pro who was 6'7" tall. He played black dot Pings. As I said in an earlier post, if oem's provide clubs with 60 deg lie angles, they have to start somewhere. Thats why we do dynamic testing and that's one reason the loft and lie machine was invented. TFlan[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you work off the "mdern standard of 60 degree lie regardless of loft. I would think the average golfer would need 1 to 2 degree degree upright or 61-62 degree lie. With a 5 iron club length of 38". In additoin the average golfer should use a putter at a length of 34" not the so called 35" standard. I have many theories why too numerous to mention here but when I fit people these are the numbers that pop up most often.--TCM GOLF [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ShopTalk: Bless Em' All
Don't know if I can top it, but I'd wonder why the guy's asking you to do it rather than one of the hundreds of shops, including GS, that are in biz in TX. TFlan - Original Message - From: Bill C Swingler To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 9:42 AM Subject: ShopTalk: Bless Em' All Hey Guy's I just had a call from Dallas, TX. I live in S.Central, PA The guy introduced himself as a Native American. He has a Scotty Cameron putter and he asked me if I could remove the Scotty Cameron logo and engrave his name on the putter. He wants to bless it in a native American ceremony and related that the prayers and blessings would not work with another name on it. I asked him if it really works and his answer was "you bet"! I told him that I do not have the facilities to engrave. Then went on to suggest that if he found someone to help him to let me know immediately. I have about a hundred clubs hanging around here that very much need those blessings! Top that one Tflan
Re: ShopTalk: Rib grips
Lay a piece of string or wire along the butt end of the shaft, tape it as usual, and slip the grip on. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Jeremy Ingle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "golf forum" Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:47 AM Subject: ShopTalk: Rib grips > Can any one help? > I would like a Winn grip with a rib but they don't make one what is > the best way to put a rib in a round grip > and ensure conformity > Regards Jeremy >
Re: ShopTalk: Test
Huh? So now Carl's the resident curmudgeon? Wow, what a relief! TFlan - Original Message - From: Chris Stricker To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 11:21 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Test My day's now complete! Curmudgeonly input was what I was after. Have a good Day Carl.Carl McKinley wrote: Yeh, so there. CarlTOM FLANAGAN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A tip . . . if you put "test, ignore" in the subject line, we'll all know that you don't want us to open the message. Thanks TFlan Chris Stricker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Please ignore. Carl Mc Kinley Retired,PCS Certified Class 'A' Clubmaker (Life Member)GCA Accredited Clubbuilder[EMAIL PROTECTED]P T Barnum is the patron saint of expensive club manufacturers. Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcoverPhoto Books. You design it and well bind it!
Re: ShopTalk: Titleist 905 Reshaft
I've done 4 of them to date. No problems at all. Everything's done the same as usual. TFlan - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: ShopTalk: Titleist 905 Reshaft Did a search on reshafting the aluminum sleeved Titleist 905 and it appears that they're actually easier to do than the older 983k's and the like. Anyone offer any tips on doing these? -- Thanks! John Muir http://clubmaker-online.com http://gripscience.com http://elevongolf.com 810.923.7396
Re: ShopTalk: Penick 8I
I found a Penick SW with Penick graphite shaft in my pile of stuff. Used a little but in good shape. TFlan - Original Message - From: Jim McFerran To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 2:12 PM Subject: ShopTalk: Penick 8I Tom and Donna, Sorry, the Harvey Penick head I have is a 9I and is a Classic Player model. I have a set of new Harvey Penick Professional iron heads, 1-11, SW, left handed, if anyone is interested. Jim McFerran
Re: ShopTalk: Ping Ferrule
Hah, reseach femininity? I've been doing that for lo these many years. It matters not whether one thinks he has the answer or not, because he doesn't. I have 45 years in marriage. I tell folks we were happy for 25 years, then we met. My wife fails to see the humor of that. See what I mean? TFlan BTW: Jen, I didn't mean us ;-) - Original Message - From: L. Hunter Kevil To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 12:00 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Ping Ferrule Let us know when you figure out the mystery of feel. Then we'll take up a collection to have you research femininity. In the meantime I'm glad we can swap out shafts without paying a lawyer.
Re: ShopTalk: Ping Ferrule
Somehow the thread morphed into a G2 job. You're absolutely correct re; the TFC. TFlan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 6:55 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Ping Ferrule Tom: My original inquiry was about a Ping ferrule for a Ping TFC 100 shaft which has a .350 tip and is a "special" ferrule used only by Ping. I reamed a Ping .335 ferrule to accomadate this TFC shaft and have since been told by "Billy Bob" that they have this ferrule in .350 but not shown in their Product list. Regards HStill
Re: ShopTalk: Ping Ferrule
Forgot to mention in my last post; I finished a G2 reshaft a few hours ago. .350" NV "R" with a .350" X 1/2 ferrule. No problems at all. That's, as I recall, #7 G2 reshafts, all w/.350" shaft tips. G2 ferrules are "special" only in that they're .350" rather than .335". TFlan Andre, as you must know Ping drivers and woods have a special ferrule that can only be used on their clubs! I have dozens of .350 ferrules but they do not work on Ping Drivers but I enjoy hearing from you and your Help!! HStill
Re: ShopTalk: Ping Ferrule
Generally . . . and keep in mind this is from only a few guys, the NV is less popular among the higher handicappers, and moderately popular among the better players. Why? I don't have a clue. To them it feels "boardy" and "too hard to get in the air". This applies to a couple of "R" flex NV's and a couple of stiffs. The Blue seems a little more popular; it's less "boardy" but "feels firmer, more responsive". I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. The "feel" of driver shafts, putters, and women are such a personal, indescribably intangible that it's impossible to define. Personally, I don't like the NV or the Blue. The YS series seem to work best for my pitiful 9 hdcp lurch. I've reshafted a 983K for a guy at least 4 times with different flex and model shafts. The guy's looking for a "feel". Not necessarily distance or direction, but a "feel". For that matter, I've done the same for my own clubs. I have a set of Ping ISI copies in which I've installed 5 different sets of shafts, looking for a feel. I can't describe it but when I get it, I'll know. That's one of the most significantly difficult things about fitting folks with shafts and heads. The "look and feel" are mysterious components of the fitting biz. It's enough to make a person nutso. TFlan - Original Message - From: L. Hunter Kevil To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:34 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Ping Ferrule Hi Tom, Have you gotten any feedback regarding a preference for the Graf Blue or the NV? Hunter L. H. Kevil Univ. of Missouri On 12/2/05, tflan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Gee guys, does this mean that the last 4 G2's I reshafted with .350" tip shafts are oddballs? I installed .350" Grafalloy Blue and Aldila NV's in those. I bored out a .335" X 5/8" ferrule for all of them. I also reshafted a couple with shimmed .335" shaft tips with no problems. I have another one sitting on the work bench, ready to install a shaft. Another .350" Grafalloy Blue's going in that one. TFlan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 7:46 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Ping Ferrule Andre, as you must know Ping drivers and woods have a special ferrule that can only be used on their clubs! I have dozens of .350 ferrules but they do not work on Ping Drivers but I enjoy hearing from you and your Help!! HStill
Re: ShopTalk: Ping Ferrule
Gee guys, does this mean that the last 4 G2's I reshafted with .350" tip shafts are oddballs? I installed .350" Grafalloy Blue and Aldila NV's in those. I bored out a .335" X 5/8" ferrule for all of them. I also reshafted a couple with shimmed .335" shaft tips with no problems. I have another one sitting on the work bench, ready to install a shaft. Another .350" Grafalloy Blue's going in that one. TFlan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 7:46 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Ping Ferrule Andre, as you must know Ping drivers and woods have a special ferrule that can only be used on their clubs! I have dozens of .350 ferrules but they do not work on Ping Drivers but I enjoy hearing from you and your Help!! HStill
ShopTalk: Re: shaft pullouts
Thanks to all who responded to my request for a 4560 and a Cleveland gold shaft. I'll call Dave Dugally's place cuz they're just a couple hundred miles from here. If worse comes to worse, I may visit them this week. We're headed to L.A. (ugh) for a few days - well, not L.A., but Northern Orange County. Either one sucks but one must visit family at times, I suppose. TFlan
Re: ShopTalk: Cleveland shafts
Thanks for the info, and I agree the shaft isn't the greatest, but when a customer asks for something, and I suggest something better, and he insists upon the original, he gets what he wants. After all, it's his $$$$. TFlan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 12:41 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Cleveland shafts In a message dated 11/20/05 2:31:18 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone know who's making the 55 gram gold color shaft in Cleveland Launcher drivers? They're .350" tip. I have a busted one I need to reshaft with an original or a duplicate. I can't find any info on the butt end of the shaft other than "Made in China", which doesn't come as a surprise. Thanks TFlanI believe they are made by Fujikura. In my opinion tho, the Gold Cleve shaft, is junk.Gramans are better than that. Hope that helps.
ShopTalk: Cleveland shafts
Anyone know who's making the 55 gram gold color shaft in Cleveland Launcher drivers? They're .350" tip. I have a busted one I need to reshaft with an original or a duplicate. I can't find any info on the butt end of the shaft other than "Made in China", which doesn't come as a surprise. Thanks TFlan
ShopTalk: A reshaft and a question
Pulled a Grafalloy Blue from a Titleist 15° yesterday. I forgot to mention this when I described the total job. Whomever installed the Blue in the 3 wood didn't scrape one iota of paint from the tip . . . not a shred! Further, the "professional" who did the job filled the tip end with epoxy and didn't even take the time to use a black marker to color the epoxy. I'm astounded the damn thing didn't fall apart. The question: does anyone have an original Titelist 4560 R flex driver pullout you're willing to part with? I got a job today. Reshaft a 983K with an original 4560. I told the guy I could get a Grafalloy Attack Lite 4.5 that's virtually identical. Nope. Gotta have the original. Hell of it is that he's been hitting a Speeder 757 S flex and the guy's about a 19 handicapper. I told him the Attack Lite would be perfect. Uh uh. If we're going to reshaft, we're going all original. What the hell, I told the guy. I'll look around for a 4560 for ya. HELP! Thanks TFlan
Re: ShopTalk: Concern about installing a BOM head
By "install" I mean, epoxy the "plug" into the hosel just as you would any shaft tip. Then install the shaft you're using on top of the "plug". You do not add epoxy to the ends of the plug, you add it to the periphery . . . around the circumference. Consider it as though it's a really short shaft, if you will. All it is is a barrier, a way to shorten the hosel depth. It will not in any way affect the play of the club. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Ralph Harwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:26 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Concern about installing a BOM head tflan, I want to make sure I understand you correctly. When you say install, do you mean to put epoxy both ends of the cut-off and then put my shaft in thereby adding tip to the shaft? Or installing it a different method? Thanks! Ralph tflan wrote: Don't insert the shaft all the way in. Installing a cut-off shaft tip at the bottom of the hosel will not in any way alter the playability of the head. This is a very common way to soften the flex of shafts in deep blind bore and bore-through heads. I've done it often, mostly in Titleist 983's. In fact, I have a 983K now, into which I'm about to install a Grafalloy 3.5 S flex at a depth of 1 1/2". This should give roughly a 1/2 flex softer performance. I'll install a shaft tip at the bottom of the hosel.
Re: ShopTalk: Concern about installing a BOM head
Don't insert the shaft all the way in. Installing a cut-off shaft tip at the bottom of the hosel will not in any way alter the playability of the head. This is a very common way to soften the flex of shafts in deep blind bore and bore-through heads. I've done it often, mostly in Titleist 983's. In fact, I have a 983K now, into which I'm about to install a Grafalloy 3.5 S flex at a depth of 1 1/2". This should give roughly a 1/2 flex softer performance. I'll install a shaft tip at the bottom of the hosel. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Ralph Harwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:45 AM Subject: ShopTalk: Concern about installing a BOM head I am about to install a BOM head onto an Accuflex S339 shaft that is relatively stiff. I have come to find out that the hosel depth is almost 3 inches. That concerns me because that if I install it all the away down it will play even stiffer and I don't want that if at all possible. I have been told that this can be resolved a couple of ways. One is cutting about an inch of shaft and sticking it down the head and the other is sticking cotton down the head. I am not sold on the idea of using cotton. But I am concerned about using a piece of shaft in that does it have to be placed in the head and not allow any epoxy to touch it? I would think if it is epoxyed in, that it would change the playability of the shaft if that piece was attached to the bottom of the head and my shaft. Many years ago when I first started, I had two heads to separate from the ferrule because I was told that I did not epoxy the shaft tip down to the head. I have been doing that since with no failures. I don't feel confortable not doing it this time. I would appreciate any advice you can offer!! Ralph
Re: ShopTalk: Creeping ferrule
First things first. I assume you did all the necessary prep work; e.g., clean the shaft tip, make sure there's no old epoxy in the tip, clear out the hosel, cone the hosel, and so on. Like others, I had that problem a few years ago but it turns out it wasn't "ferrule creep", rather it was the head being shoved off the shaft tip. I solved the problem easily. First off, I cone every hosel top. Then I follow the directions on the epoxy bottle; "a thin film on the mating surfaces is sufficient for a solid bond", or words to that effect was printed thereon. So, I apply a thin film. But . . . you need a tight fit, so I routinely shim each and every head I install with monofilament fish line of whatever size is required. I shove the ferrule in place with the hosel, nearly every time. When all that's done and the head is installed, I wrap masking tape as tightly as possible around the ferrule/hosel joint. Hell, I've even shimmed ferrules in place. And I never soak a ferrule in acetone. I start the ferrule then very carefully heat it and shove it in place with the head or sometimes with a home made pusher that I made from an old broom handle. I haven't had an epoxy "leak" in a long time. TFlan - Original Message - From: "jb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ShopTalk" Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:03 AM Subject: ShopTalk: Creeping ferrule All: I installed a graphite shaft in a metalwood head last night, and there was an approx. 1mm space between the top of the hosel and the ferrule. I installed a plastic plug in the bottom of the hosel bore first. The ferrule fit very tightly; I had to soak the ferrule in acetone for 10 sec to force it on the shaft. A head to shaft clip (A clamp designed to make sure this doen't happen) was attached, clamping on the hosel and shaft above the ferrule. The assembled club was placed in a hotbox for 2 hours after the installation. After the 2 hours the assembled club would have cooled to workroom temperature, about 65 degrees. The hotbox is about 3' x 1' x 1' and heated with three 40 watt light bulbs. Any ideas as to what happened, why, and how to prevent this in the future? P.S. - My gut feeling is that the the curing epoxy expanded pushing the shaft up out of the hosel bore, leaving a space between the end of the shaft tip and the bottom of the hosel bore. A picture of the head to shaft clip used: http://www.golfsmith.com/products/8394 Thanks to all, John B
Re: ShopTalk: Looking for an Alternate
I hope you're not thinking that I said Wishon's stuff was no good. I just mentioned a few dealers in the component biz, of which Mr Wishon is a part. Certainly his products are excellent, as are others in the marketplace. In point of fact, I didn't mention Golfsmith at all, come to think of it. TFlan \- Original Message - From: Ed Reeder To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 4:19 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Looking for an Alternate Tom,Respectfully, I have to put Wishon in an entirely different level than any other company I'm aware of. I wouldn't even mention Wishon and Golfsmith in the same sentence. Golfsmith is first and foremost a club retailer, like Edwin Watts. Wishon's goal is to get every golfer properly fitted. A goal that won't be sacrificed just to pump out product.
Re: Re: Re: RE: ShopTalk: Looking for an Alternate
Not "fired up" at all. Just trying to help. TFlan - Original Message - From: Tom and Donna To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 3:32 PM Subject: Re: Re: Re: RE: ShopTalk: Looking for an Alternate Sorry Tom, did not mean to get you all fired up and I do understand what you are saying.
Re: Re: RE: ShopTalk: Looking for an Alternate
Who can tell how a Cobra responds? There are so many heads on the market . . . clones, copies, knockoffs, etc., and heads designed by folks like Wishon, Maltby, et al, that it's nearly impossible to tell what head plays like a Cobra. Hell, you can buy several heads of the same design and they'll not necessarily play the same from head to head. The Cobra's a unique combo of shaft, head, grip, designed by Cobra/Titleist people. Matching characteristics is likely a futile chase, IMO. Believe me, I've been there, done that. I've often believed that virtually any club will work well . . . until the check clears. TFlan - Original Message - From: Tom and Donna To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 1:14 PM Subject: Re: Re: RE: ShopTalk: Looking for an Alternate Actually I am not looking for a clone but more for a head that responds like the Cobra at contact with the ball. I have never had much luck hitting with the new larger club heads. One of my Saturday foursome showed up with this one and was knocking the stuffing out of the ball ( not really, just hitting it longer than I could with my Biggest big Beartha). On about the fifth hole I asked him to let me give it a try. I took a slow controlled back swing and followed through hoping not to slice into the creek. The ball sailed out of sight down the fairway and over the hill. I have never hit that long and be in the center of the fairway in my life. My average drives have always been around 190 to 210. My ball came to rest 107 yards in front of the green. I'm all pumped up now and I follow with an PW to six inches from the hole, drop the putt for a birdie.Two weeks later my buddy has put the club away and goes back to his 3W for ball control. Took me another week to talk him out of it. With an average score for this year in the mid nineties, I go play last Thursday afternoon. I hit all but one fairway, ten greens in regulation, and walked off the course with an 80. As we all say, some day everything is going to come together one day and all will be well. I have had mine. I had shot an 84 before but spent last year trying to break 100 again. Dropping ten strokes off my present average would be a great way to finish this season.Tom Mtflan wrote: There are a lot of Cobra knockoffs.Try a google search for clone golf heads. You'll be surprised at the large number of them. - Original Message - From: Tom and Donna To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 9:23 AM Subject: Re: RE: ShopTalk: Looking for an Alternate -- Where is it okay to be teed off, tote a six-iron, shoot birdies, and if you're under par it's a great day?
Re: ShopTalk: AJ Tech
What's the diameter? Use one of those cap style wine corks, the one's that twist in. Or a champagne cork shaped and trimmed to fit. Or look for a bubble shaft plug. Or glue a piece of plastic or wood cut to the proper O.D. to a cork. Take the shaft to a local beer/wine supply shop or a chemisty lab supply store, where you'll find a large collection of corks of various sizes. Trim to fit. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Bryan White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 12:44 PM Subject: ShopTalk: AJ Tech I have an AJ Tech 9460-SK gripless shaft. I need the end cap for it. Does anybody know where I can get one or use something for an end cap? Bryan __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: RE: ShopTalk: Looking for an Alternate
There are a lot of Cobra knockoffs.Try a google search for clone golf heads. You'll be surprised at the large number of them. You didn't mention which shaft was in the Cobra head. They offer a 55 gram shaft in their 460 cc head that a lot of guys like, especially seniors. And, Cobra offers a compositon head in 460cc, an all metal 460 and a 440. Most are closed 2°, but not all. Trying to match a clone to an OEM performance is at best a crapshoot. I have to agree with Lloyd somewhat on this one. I have, over the many years I've been at this game, changed shafts in a favorite head several times and have gotten different results with each shaft. For instance, I own a Titleist 983K in which I have installed at least 5 different shafts with supposedly identical specs. Each shaft performed differently in the head. Same length, same frequencies, same weights, same swingweights, grips, etc. I've also installed a favorite shaft in different heads of the same weights, lofts, and face angles with differing results. You're into, essentially, an endeavor that will drive you nuts at times. Customers will want "the same as the original but at half the price." You'll build it and they'll bitch . . . guarantee ya ;-) TFlan - Original Message - From: Tom and Donna To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 9:23 AM Subject: Re: RE: ShopTalk: Looking for an Alternate
ShopTalk: Callaways?
Before I leave tomorrow I'll share this one with y'all. I reshafted a couple of "Callaway" X16's yesterday. The shafts were broken. The customer told me they were knockoffs. No way, I said, after examining them. They were X16's with Callaway logos on the heads, Callaway shafts and grips (the unbroken ones). They were borethrough heads. One of the shafts was broken at the hosel so I had to drill it out. Lo and behold, the bottom of the bore through was cosmetic . . . a plastic plug that looked exactly like the real, split tips, Callaways. I reshafted them. I asked the guy today where the hell he got them. He said a friend travels to China 4 times per year. There are shops near the foundrys that make Callaways. The shops have for sale complete sets of "Callaways", woods, irons, putter and bag, for $129.00 U.S. They also have Titleists, Clevelands, Cobras, you name it, they have it, and all for under $150.00 I could not tell the difference between the real deal and these that I just reshafted. Incredible. TFlan
Re: ShopTalk: Gone for a while
I'm a helluva planner. New England's loaded with rain. Weather forecast for Springfield is partly cloudy Saturday night, when we're scheduled to arrive. One of the significant reasons I left MA in 1958 was because scraping ice off my car door so I could open it became more of a pain than I wanted to deal with. Snow, sleet, ice, rain? I'll take Central CA and smog. TFlan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 7:04 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Gone for a while Have a great trip! I did a similar one a couple of weeks ago as part of an attitude readjustment exercise! Drove from Michigan to NY City. Heavy rain all the way! Played Bethpage and then the next day Winged Foot. On the way home the weather was beautiful in the low 80's. So the car overheats on the Cross Bronx Expressway (not a nice place for a walk), I turn off the air conditioner, turn on the heater and roast but I not stopping there unless I carry the clubs with me! Get halfway across NJ and the engine is running at normal temp so off goes the heater and on goes the air conditioner. All is well the rest of the way. Seems a freeze plug on the engine was leaking! Moral of the story - it's good to be home, played just OK golf, visited with family and in the end life is good. I have studied your curmudgeon ways and I'll try my best until you return!
Re: ShopTalk: need ideas for a hair-line crack on a metal head
I ran out of shafting epoxy a few years ago and I had a really hot job to get out. I went to a local Chief Auto Supply and bought a couple tubes of this stuff. Stuck the PW together. Wouldn't you know, the guy didn't like the shaft. I got it apart but I'll guarantee ya, it took a while. Another actual story about this stuff. I had a Dodge Dart wagon. Straight 6 engine. It was losing coolant. I suspected a head gasket leak. I pulled the head. Gasket was o.k. However, at the very top of the #1 cylinder wall there was a hairline crack. I mixed up some JB Weld and forced it into the crack. After it set up I sanded it smooth and put the engine back together. It ran well enough, long enough, until I could sell the car . . .about 2 weeks. Here's another one. I had a motorcycle years ago. The VIN I.D. plate, located under the floorboard cracked off as a result of a hard scrape. I sanded the post where the plate was originally welded on and JB Weld held it on for the next couple years that I had the bike. I always keep a couple tube of it on hand. The current supply is at least 5 years old and still sticks like, well, a weld. TFlan - Original Message - From: "James Kaar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:47 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: need ideas for a hair-line crack on a metal head Uh, yes it is... Tom, I (before I started reading this forum a few years ago) actually used that stuff to glue a steel shaft into a little mizuno 3-wood head. Is there any way to get it out other than just cutting the shaft and drilling it out?? I quickly came to realize that maybe JB Weld is NOT the ideal shafting epoxy. :-) --- tflan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Get some JB Weld 2 part epoxy. That is some tough stuff. TFlan
Re: ShopTalk: Wishon Short Driver Article
Are these the very same "Harry and David" who run those cute little stores in shopping malls and online across the country? You know, the guys who sell popcorn, mustards, candy salami, etc., in cute little designer packages for big bucks? TFlan - Original Message - From: "Lloyd Hackman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 5:51 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Wishon Short Driver Article RK Below is a comment that was posted three years ago on this forum by a user of the FitChip. Since you would not believe what I said maybe you can believe another member of this forum. If those nameless people you mention have a problem with the system why have I not heard from them. I do give every one a 30 day free trail period to decide if the system is for them or not as well as continued support on interpreting the data. Have you ever taken advantage of trying it for your self rather them depending on here say? "Hi Harry I have been fitting and selling golf clubs for a long time, I've done it in stores and have had two ranges, I can tell a guys club head speed blind folded just by the sound. I only say this to let you know that I have a good amount of experience. I started using Fit Chip in my retail store on 4/10/02 and just today tracked the sales thru 11/08/02 and I was amazed at the sales to return rate, especially since we tell every customer that if they are not happy we are not happy, the last thing we want is for their driver or whatever to end up in the garage, it doesn't help them, and it doesn't help us, we want people out there whooping it up about their purchase. I have had 1,275 retail sales during this period and have had only 9 returns, that is UN heard of in this business, that is a 99% stick rate, now granted I always reserve the right to use my better judgment to over rule the Chip, but it is a great guide line for fitting if properly interpreted. I do have demo's in a variety of flex's and a range near by which I routinely send people to and more often than not they like the club best that is close to the freq. that the Chip recommended when the data was properly interpreted. You guys are eager to slam Lloyd and granted I don't know your history with him, but I do know that he is on to something and it's outside the box of conventional thinking. David" llhack
Re: ShopTalk: need ideas for a hair-line crack on a metal head
Get some JB Weld 2 part epoxy. That is some tough stuff. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Ralph Harwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 10:41 AM Subject: ShopTalk: need ideas for a hair-line crack on a metal head I have a metal driver head (not titanium) that has a hair-line fracture about an inch long. It does not bother me in any way when using the club. But the problem is that a little teeny-tiny bit of rat glue oozes out and I am constantly using Goo-Gone to clean it. I would be interested in any suggestions on what I could use to stop the glue of oozing out but yet not disrupt the appearance. I am sure some kind of epoxy might work, but I don't want to do something that I may regret to its appearance. Thanks!
ShopTalk: Gone for a while
Heading to Massachusetts Oct 15, then to D.C. Gone for a couple weeks. I can well imagine many here will miss my trenchant commentary, so pay attention to Arnie. TFlan
Re: ShopTalk: Wishon Short Driver Article
I won't discuss this on the forum cuz I don't want to get nailed with a slander or any other kind of suit. Suffice to say the guy is a pro who has a fitted out van. He travels to different areas, fits golfers, and sells them clubs. Now, there's no question at all as to the slope of the set of irons he built for the guy in question. The player, a really good striker of the ball with a handicap in the + range, was hitting Ping I3's. He has charted distances with every single club in the set. He got his new, FitChip suggested irons and couldn't come anywhere near the distances or directions he had with the Pings. We compared lofts and lies and adjusted the new set to match the Pings. Still, rather than hit, for example, his new 9 iron 140 yds, as he did with the Ping, he hit it 129 yds. Now, I'm not exaggerating one bit, Every club in the set was either shorter or longer by large numbers. He asked me how come. I told him the shafts, parallel Rifles supposedly flexed to 5.7, were probably off the mark. So we popped the grips and freq'd every one of the clubs. The curve looked like a profile of the Alps. Freq's were all over the chart. It's entirely possible that the builder used crappy Rifle blanks, or that he misinterpreted the data. But there's absolutely no question that this set rivalled even the worst OEM set I've worked on. One more thing about this. This is the second set of irons I've reshafted from sets that were fitted by your device. The first set were so stiff the guy could hardly get the ball in the air. So something's wrong somewhere, either with the device or with the clubmaker, or both. This is empirical stuff Lloyd, not theory. I've been at this biz for a helluva lotta years and as you no doubt are aware, I would never build a set of clubs for a guy based upon a computer readout. He has to hit the clubs first before I ever let him pay a dime. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Lloyd Hackman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 1:28 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Wishon Short Driver Article Tflam Who was the club builder that built that set of clubs you refer to? The fitChip dose not build the clubs or recommend frequencies in set that don't fall on straight slope or a smooth curve. llhack
Re: ShopTalk: Wishon Short Driver Article
Hey Tomas' Don't get into a pissing match with this guy. It's pointless. I recently rebuilt a set of clubs that were assembled based upon the FitChip. Freq's were all over the range from xtra stiff to nearly a lady's flex. Absolute crap. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Tom Wishon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:37 AM Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Wishon Short Driver Article LLHack: Fine Lloyd - you just keep on ignoring the simple fact that longer length does not match well with golfer athletic ability and does result in one heckuva lot of avg golfers having one heckuva lot of trouble keeping the club under control and on a reasonably proper swing path and plane. Better yet, why don't you do both? Do your chip thing to satisfy your own beliefs but do it with a length definitely shorter than 45" for your golfers. TOM
Re: ShopTalk: USGA
I can't resist chiming in here. I play with a regular group of guys . . . roughly 14 to 16 at any given day, and we abide by the Rules of Golf . . . with two glaring exceptions. "In the leather" putts, which in this group doesn't mean within the length of the grip. Rather, "gimmee's" are good within the length of the steel putter shaft. This is a practice with which I strongly disagree, to no avail. Second thing I disagree with is "mulligans" on the first tee. It makes no sense to me if a guy has just hit a bucket of balls on the range and then needs to hit an extra shot from the tee without penalty. Other than those two exceptions, we play to the letter of the rules. No "rooties", no winter rules, no tamping down spike marks, no brushing sand from the collar of the green, etc. In fact, during a recent Team Match Play competition, my opponent tamped down a scuff mark in front of his ball. I called a loss of hole. The guy said his team captain and another team captain at an earlier match agreed to waive the rule against tamping spike marks. That in itself requires disqualification. Players may not agree to waive the rules. That's specifically prohibited. I guess the reason for playing the way we play is to determine accurately how well or how poorly we perform. Another way some guys keep score is the good old, "ah, gimmee a 7 here, that's all I can take." The guy's got two ball O.B. and he's putting for a 9. The rules say, mark down the 9, add up the scores at the end, and adjust for posting. How else can one know accurately what he scored? Ah well, I could go on, but you get my point. TFlan
Re: ShopTalk: Rangefinders
I have a Bushnell. Simple to use but a steady hand is essential. A reflective source is required. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Trio800_BonBon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 1:02 PM Subject: ShopTalk: Rangefinders Hi all... I'm thinking of getting one of those Bushnell type laser rangefinders but wanted to find out how easy they are to use. I assume that they must have some kind of object to reflect off (meaning that you couldn't measure distance to the edge of water without locating a tree or something nearby). Am I correct? How steady do you have to be to use it. I currently have a high quality optical scope (the type you aim at the bottom of a flag) but holding it steady enough to get a reading is difficult for me. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks Grampa
Re: ShopTalk: Grip Tape
How long to heat the water? How long until they're safe, or comfortable to handle. Toxic substance? Are you serious? What, sulphuric acid? Geez! Student apprentice? Where the hell does one get them? I assume this is in jest. If so ROTFLMAO. If not . . . ;-( TFlan - Original Message - From: Jeremy Ingle To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:30 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Grip Tape For a single club or a couple at one time the heat and scraper/knife and solvent combo works fine but for doing whole sets or multiples there must be a better way. Has anyone . tried immersing all at one time in a tub of hot or boiling water or another non toxic substance. I suppose you could put the butts in some sort of "hotbox" but how do you clean off the ensuing sticky mess?Best plan is too offer special " regrip day" deal -- get a whole lot to do at one time-- then get a" student /apprentice in to do all the crappy work.Regripping doest really justify the time of highly qualified and skilled folks like most of you.Jeremytflan wrote: First thing I try is to slice a length of the tape with my 10" butcher knife, then peel the rest off. If it doesn't peel off, heat it. I use a propane torch. It's easier but it isn't cleaner. Adhesive residue remains and it can be a pain to clean. I use the same solvent and paper towels to wash the butt end. For steel shafts . . . burn it off and wipe clean. Also, there are tape scrapers available commercially or you can make one from a steel shaft. Cut it at an angle and sharpen it on your grinder. - Original Message - From: Graham Little To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 3:41 AM Subject: ShopTalk: Grip Tape Gentlemen Ive been encouraged to come out of retirement and Im now a part time resident clubmaker for a chain of five golf stores in my home city. I now do a lot of repairs and Im enjoying the experience. However, the one job that really irks me is removing layer upon layer of grip tape particularly off graphite shafts. Does anyone have some magic they perform to make this an easier and cleaner job? Cheers Graham
Re: ShopTalk: Grip Tape
First thing I try is to slice a length of the tape with my 10" butcher knife, then peel the rest off. If it doesn't peel off, heat it. I use a propane torch. It's easier but it isn't cleaner. Adhesive residue remains and it can be a pain to clean. I use the same solvent and paper towels to wash the butt end. For steel shafts . . . burn it off and wipe clean. Also, there are tape scrapers available commercially or you can make one from a steel shaft. Cut it at an angle and sharpen it on your grinder. - Original Message - From: Graham Little To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 3:41 AM Subject: ShopTalk: Grip Tape Gentlemen Ive been encouraged to come out of retirement and Im now a part time resident clubmaker for a chain of five golf stores in my home city. I now do a lot of repairs and Im enjoying the experience. However, the one job that really irks me is removing layer upon layer of grip tape particularly off graphite shafts. Does anyone have some magic they perform to make this an easier and cleaner job? Cheers Graham
ShopTalk: Freq chart
Does anyone have a copy of FM Precision's freq charts? I can't find mine and would like to replace them. Thanks TFlan
Re: ShopTalk: Ping Eye 2 irons -- shaft replacement
Which shafts are they? The replacements for the original ZZLites are the TT Lites from True Temper. Ping also used MicroTapers. I have a full set of MicroTapers, 1 - SW if anyone's interested. I also have a set of near new TX90 R, taper tips, and a set of Flighted Rifle 5.0. I wouldn't mind getting rid of some of these. I think I have a few ZZ Lite pullouts somewhere in the pile. TFlan Hey All - Looking for a couple of replacement shafts for Ping Eye 2 irons (3 and 6). I've tried Google and also the Golfsmith OEM replacement guide -- with not a lot of success. Ping is not even listed in the Golfsmith guide. The one decent hit from Google was from a Golfsmith forum, and recommended Royal Precision Microtaper Taper Tip. If this is correct, does anybody know of a source? It's a special order from Golfsmith. I also checked a few other component shops online with no luck! Thanks - - R. Patton Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
ShopTalk: Kennedy Puller
I own a Kennedy puller. Its a fine piece of equipment. Somehow I was able to screw it up by stripping out the threads on the shaft clamp. I contacted RK. He chewed me out (electronically) and then sent replacement parts. I'm trying to pay him for the parts. So far to no avail. If this is the way he wants to do business then . . . ah hell. If anyone's in the market for a shaft puller. Get a Kennedy. The man is a helluva designer/manufacturer. Get the puller from John Muir or from RK. But don't say I sent you. He may hurl vile invective at me ;-) TFlan THANKS RK, YOU DA MAN!
Re: ShopTalk: Hawkeye titanium irons
Yeah, they're a bitch to bend. Be real careful. I've bent a couple but only after warning the customer they could break. I wouldn't do one now, but back in the "old days" I'd try to bend just about any club. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Keith Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:45 PM Subject: ShopTalk: Hawkeye titanium irons Has anyone bent these successfully? I have a Mitchell with the short hosel bending bar and I need to go up 2*. I 'd rather wait and hear from someone who has done it than get myself in a jam. I have reamed several sets of these out and they seemed harder than normal. This leads me to guess that they are too hard and brittle to bend. Someone tell me I'm wrong. TIA- Keith Anderson
Re: URGENT HELP ShopTalk: big bertha shaft replacement]
And by the way, J; here's the response I gave Mr. Ingle via private email. I'm not loathe to help guys out, as I'm sure you're aware. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Jeremy Ingle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "tflan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:04 AM Subject: (no subject) Tflan its a Great Big Bertha is there much difference for instance Bore and ferrule type? Nope; .335". One small problem is that the bottom of the borethrough is a little smaller diameter than .335". That's so the slit tip shaft can be captured without shimming. The plug in the shaft tip is a piece of plastic. The ferrule is a "lipped" O ring. You can use a rubber O ring for appearance if you don't have a plastic one, or you could carefully slice the original O ring loose and reuse it. Scrape the paint from the tip and shove it through for fit. Once you have it set, slip the ferrule on, add the epoxy and shove the tip through completely. Remember you have to get the tip far enough through the head so that the entire tip is showing. I like to use a piece of fish line to shim the assembly in place tightly. Then, on your belt sander, grind the tip nearly flush with the sole. Epoxy a piece of plastic plug and tap it into the shaft tip. Snip off the protruding bit of plastic and on your 3M finishing wheel, finish the assembly flush. Then wipe the whole thing with acetone and set the club aside. If you're adding a plug to the butt end do it now, or later. If you've never done one of these no sweat. Just take your time. TFlan - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:14 AM Subject: Re: URGENT HELP ShopTalk: big bertha shaft replacement] heaven forbid somebody would actually ask for clubmaking/equipment advice from a clubmaking/equipment DISCUSSION Group such as shoptalk. please ignore tflan's "nonflame" post, if you need help choosing a shaft, the question is welcome here. John shoptalk At 09:36 PM 8/23/2005, you wrote: He came to the place that he trusted to get the info. He got it in spades. tflan wrote:
Re: URGENT HELP ShopTalk: big bertha shaft replacement]
John, come on! I did in fact answer the question. I did in fact tell Jeremey how and where to get OEM info. I did suggest several replacement shafts. What I intended in my perhaps abrupt manner was to suggest that he use the internet - google, to get answers in a hurry. He said "URGENT HELP". From that I understood that he was in a hurry. Waiting for some guy from ST to come up with answers wasn't in fact the fastest way to get an answer. TFlan - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:14 AM Subject: Re: URGENT HELP ShopTalk: big bertha shaft replacement] heaven forbid somebody would actually ask for clubmaking/equipment advice from a clubmaking/equipment DISCUSSION Group such as shoptalk. please ignore tflan's "nonflame" post, if you need help choosing a shaft, the question is welcome here. John shoptalk At 09:36 PM 8/23/2005, you wrote: He came to the place that he trusted to get the info. He got it in spades. tflan wrote:
Re: URGENT HELP ShopTalk: big bertha shaft replacement]
Oh, please! TFlan - Original Message - From: "Chris Stricker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 6:36 PM Subject: Re: URGENT HELP ShopTalk: big bertha shaft replacement] He came to the place that he trusted to get the info. He got it in spades. tflan wrote:
Re: URGENT HELP ShopTalk: big bertha shaft replacement]
For cryin' out loud! Use a little initiative and do a google search. I'm not trying to flame you but jeez, it's such a simple thing to do.Type in callaway replacement shafts. At the very top of the results you'll get a Golfsmith page. Click on that. Then go to the PDF file of OEM replacement shafts. Or, get your favorite suppliers catalog out and look for lightweigh, cheap, graphite shafts. Buy any 60 - 70 gram shaft. BB shafts are crap anyway so anything you buy will be an upgrade. Get a Graftech Lite for $6.95. Get a Rapport lite for $24.00. Get a generic Maltby for $14.00. Get a UST ultra lite for $14.95. Take a ride to GS and pick up any light shaft. Firm it up? Tip it. Add an inch? Most shafts are 46", which is an inch longer than Callaway standard. If you tip a shaft you'll have to plug the butt end. Too bad you're in a hurry. I think I have a couple of GBB pullouts somewhere in my pile. By the way. You should specify which Callaway BB you're talking about. Is it in fact a BB, a Biggest BB, or a GBB? Actually it doesn't make much difference in shaft selection. They're all crap anyway. TFlan - Original Message - From: Jeremy Ingle To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 2:01 PM Subject: [Fwd: URGENT HELP ShopTalk: big bertha shaft replacement] Original Message Subject: ShopTalk: big bertha shaft replacement Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 10:38:45 -0400 From: Jeremy Ingle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.comA customer of mine called at my house around 9 pm last night with the head of his Big Bertha in one hand and the shaft in the other last year he brought the same club to me with the shaft broken a third of the way up. as it was still under guarantee i sent it back to Callaway and they replaced it (three week turnaround from Canada) this time it sheared off right at the top of the hosel So I said to him" Ok we' ll send it back again" "Can you get it back for me by friday" he says I'm off to Scotland Saturday and Booked to play St Andrews next week." " No way Jose" I says best i can do is substitute So I have to replace with a good quality equivalent Callaway BB UL regular flex He wants me to" add an inch and firm it up a bit"!!! What is the best at reasonable price? Regards Jeremy
Re: ShopTalk: Big Driver Suggestions?
Stand farther away . . . It'll look smaller. TFlan BTW: How's about later? ;-) - Original Message - From: "Jen Kuntz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Shoptalk" Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 4:39 AM Subject: ShopTalk: Big Driver Suggestions? General question is - for anyone who has switched from "small" head to big head, any tips to get used to it or differences in how you built your driver? I went with 44" because I know that is a length that I know I can keep accurate with my previous drivers. But, at that length the club seems way too short because the head is so big (to me). I feel like it's about 30" long!! Does it just take you a bit extra time to get used to the big head?? Just curious, everyone's opinions will vary... Jen
Re: Re: ShopTalk: frequency]
Allow for change in length and head weight? Well as noted, my "standards" are based upon a set of weights, lengths, and clamp length. I don't want to get into a long dissertation on fractions of a frequency since for the most part in a given set of circumstances the fractions are irrelevant. For instance, using the below cited example, if the head weight is a little heavier, or the clamp distance is a little shorter, or the shaft is a little longer, there'll be a little slower freq reading. Does that mean much? Probably not. The shaft is the shaft. One could test a shaft at say, 41" with a 300 gram tip weight and 3" clamp. That shaft will freq really soft. OTOH, test the same shaft at 36" with a 200 gm tip weight and it will test out like a telephone pole. That's why I have my own personal "standard". If a shaft freqs as below . . . it's an "R" flex. No more, no less. It works for me. If you have a freq meter you can develop your own favorite measurements. TFlan TFlan, good positive stuff--- Given those numbers as a base what are the CPM variances for X ,S ,A & L flex and how do you allow for change in length and head weight. Regards Jeremy. tflan wrote: Just got up ;-) I have my own personal standard for shaft flex and to hell with OEM's. For my "R" flex, I like 300 cpm, ungripped, at 38 1/2" in a 5" clamp for a 254 gram 5 iron head, toe up, hard spine at 12:00. I like 240 cpm at 45" with a 200 gram driver head for R flex. I don't care if anyone agrees or disagrees. I like these numbers. They work for me and for my customers. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Dave Tutelman" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 6:19 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Club Connectors At 11:10 PM 7/25/2005, skismith wrote: Can anyone help me with understanding frequencys on raw shafts or point me to a source with generally accepted standards for the different flexes? It's still real early in California, so TFlan is probably still asleep. Therefore, let me be the first to say... THERE ARE NO STANDARDS!
Re: ShopTalk: Club Connectors
Just got up ;-) I have my own personal standard for shaft flex and to hell with OEM's. For my "R" flex, I like 300 cpm, ungripped, at 38 1/2" in a 5" clamp for a 254 gram 5 iron head, toe up, hard spine at 12:00. I like 240 cpm at 45" with a 200 gram driver head for R flex. I don't care if anyone agrees or disagrees. I like these numbers. They work for me and for my customers. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Dave Tutelman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 6:19 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Club Connectors At 11:10 PM 7/25/2005, skismith wrote: Can anyone help me with understanding frequencys on raw shafts or point me to a source with generally accepted standards for the different flexes? It's still real early in California, so TFlan is probably still asleep. Therefore, let me be the first to say... THERE ARE NO STANDARDS!
Re: ShopTalk: Club Connectors
Why not contact John Muir? He's the owner of the site. Just send a note to www.clubmaker-online.com and specify to John that you want out. He's a most accomodating guy. If the emails you're getting are in fact from shoptalk rather than from a spammer who somehow got your address, that's a different problem. There haven't been a lot of emails from ST this month so I very much doubt a "flood" of email from ST is reaching you. There is of course another option in the meantime . . . just "block sender" from the tools/message options in your mail page. Or worse. highlight it on your ISP's page and call it spam. TFlan - Original Message - From: kenneth r bents To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 4:13 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Club Connectors Why would you say such? I subscribed only to 'see' about making clubs for my grandchildren. I find I am not up to it. I am receiving a flood of e mails and merely want to back out of ShopTalk. But when I try to follow the instructions from Majordomo, they fail. I try the "unsubscribe" directive , and it doesn't work. I made a mistake. I am a senior. I shouldn't be censored for that, should I?
Re: ShopTalk: Rifle lite 4.5
Not me, but I do have a set of Rifle Flighted 5.0 taper tips, 11 shafts. TFlan - Original Message - From: "Keith Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 4:46 PM Subject: ShopTalk: Rifle lite 4.5 Anyone out there have some older Rifle Lite 4.5 iron shafts? Taper or parallel- pull outs O.K. TIA, Keith
Re: ShopTalk: Callaway X-Tour irons
Just about every Callaway made is a bore-through. They are not taper tip. The bottom of the bore is marginally smaller than .370". The shaft tips are slit and forced through the bore. A plug is pounded in and the protruding tip is ground down and polished. TFlan - Original Message - From: "BeeTeeGolf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 4:10 PM Subject: ShopTalk: Callaway X-Tour irons Can anyone tell me about these iron hosels? Are they non-bore through with just a plug similar to the old Wilson's with red plugs? Do you know if they are taper tip or parallel? Thanks Bruce
ShopTalk: Rifles
Anyone interested in a set . . . 1 - SW of taper tip, Flighted 5.0 Rifles? I had them in a set of my clubs. Used them for 3 range sessions and one round of golf. This old boy's pitiful lurch couldn't handle them ;-) They are essentially brand new. They're cut 1/2" over "standard", whatever that is. Seriously, 38 1/2" 5 iron, etc. I also have a set of 5.5 taper Rifles, 8 pcs, w/grips, I'd like to get rid of. Contact me only via private email. Let's don't clutter up the site. Thanks TFlan
Re: ShopTalk: I just subscribed...successfully.
If they're black, paint them with spray can polyurethane. If not black and you can't match the color, use a complementary color. TFlan - Original Message - From: "kenneth r bents" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:55 PM Subject: ShopTalk: I just subscribed...successfully. I have a question: I recently bought a quantity of Loomis shafts. They were factory tip prepped. The preparation; i.e., paint removal, extends 4" buttwards. Too long. After hosel and ferrule I am left with 2" of sanded shaft. I do not want to tip trim. Does anyone make an over-long ferrule or some sort of spacer I can use? thanks... Bob Bents in Troutdale, OR
Re: ShopTalk: Lynx Black CAT flare tip Irons
Shimming? Well, it depends on what you're using for a shaft. I'll tell you though that the hosel bore depth is really shallow . . . about an inch. I reshafted a couple of those monsters about 4 - 5 months ago with .370" tip graphite shafts. and it was touch and go. I told the guy that he should hit the clubs on the range when nobody was there, in case the heads flew off. Thankfully they didn't and the guy's still using them. Ferrules? I reamed out a couple of .370" iron ferrules by hand, using a .400" drill bit held with a vise-grip and ferrule squeezed in a shaft clamp. . . took forever but it worked. TFlan - Original Message - From: Pat-On Target Golf LLC To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 3:53 PM Subject: ShopTalk: Lynx Black CAT flare tip Irons I have two Black Cat irons a customer brought in for resetting of heads and both ferrules are missing. Is there a ferrule out there that will work on these flare tip irons? The ID is approx. .410". Also, is there any shimming that needs to be done on these? TIA Pat-On Target Golf LLCTurnersville, NJ[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ShopTalk: heavy putter
Now that the Pr. . .ck Domasky is gone, any thread featuring Arnies absence is a blessing ;-) But then we still have MyKey and RK, so all is not lost. Fortunately I am not part of this curmudgeonly array. TFlan BTW: Has anyone missed the Admiral? - Original Message - From: Jeremy Ingle To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 11:33 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: heavy putter Has everyone noticed the improvement in the tone of the posts since Arnie and I stayed out of the last round on the Heavy Putter?
Re: ShopTalk: Ping CRAZ-E putter
Like most clones, these are similar in appearance. Also like most clones, they don't perform like the real deal. I'm no angel. I sell a lot of clones. But I don't expect the same performance from them as the OEM stuff. Go back and check out my recent experience with a clone TM Rescue for a comparison. TFlan - Original Message - From: "scott1256ca" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 1:01 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Ping CRAZ-E putter --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Donald T <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Has anyone seen a copy of the Ping CRAZ-E putter head? I've tried the original and I like it, but not the price. Thanks Donald T tourgolfproducts.com accupath 16 hirekogolf.com bionik 205 Maybe someone else has tried them and can attest to how close they are to the original but I've just seen the pictures. Scott
Re: ShopTalk: offset 3 wood plus a glove
Yeah I took a look at it. Hell of it is they're in Arcadia, about 100 miles or so from here. When I was in the Long Beach area I did a lot of biz with suppliers in that area . . .Montebello, Monterey Park, etc. Precision Composites was there, as was Hireko and a buncha others. I know that the Bang Boys, Steve Almo/Chris Fu moved into a relatively small place in Montebello a few years ago. I did a lot of biz with Chris Fu . . . cash only. Looks as though that part of south east L.A. has become, rather than Mexico City, Little China, or Little Korea. Problem now for me is that I gave up my resale license when I retired, in retrospect a mistake. So now when I buy stuff I either have to give a phony resale # (most of these guys never check anyway), or pay sales tax. Pisses me off muchly. TFlan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 10:56 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: offset 3 wood plus a glove In a message dated 6/10/05 1:43:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just fine Good news. I started to become concerned! Did you receive the private email about the Cobra type offset head I sent? I didn't want to go public with my best supplier's name. They would get swamped with orders and mine would drop to the bottom of the list.
Re: ShopTalk: offset 3 wood plus a glove
Just fine, a little lazy but o.k. I really did a long search for HJ yesterday and never came up with the obvious . . . ah well, 44/38 on the course will do that to a guy, I suppose. Thanks TFlan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 10:29 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: offset 3 wood plus a glove http://hjglove.com/ Tom, are you OK? Arnie
ShopTalk: offset 3 wood plus a glove
Thanks for all the info guys. Now I have to scan some pix and show them to my nearly 70 year old, 40 handicap female customer. It may take a while ;-) On another area of interest, our proshop sells a glove "HJ AllSoft with palm patch". I've done a google search and have not been able to find it. There are at least 5 guys in our club who'd like to buy a couple dozen of these for less than what we have to pay . . . cheap turds that we are. Any info about this product? Thanks TFlan
ShopTalk: Offset 3 wood
Hi; Who's making a 16°, offset club similar to a lady Cobra? I have a customer who plays "at" the game and she's looking for a club like that which doesn't cost $200. Thanks TFlan
Re: ShopTalk: FW: exposed shaft!!
Radio Shack
TFlan
- Original Message -
From:
comgolf
To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 11:20
AM
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: FW: exposed
shaft!!
Where can one buy this shrink wrap in anything close to
.335...??Jay
- Original Message -
From:
tflan
To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 1:48
PM
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: FW: exposed
shaft!!
If you mean the red one, it's still o.k.
after about a year. I haven't seen the Callaway for a while but I'm
assuming it, too, is fine. This isn't a new process for me. I've done a lot
of paint jobs on exposed shafts. Certainly they don't look like the original
but close enough. I don't like shrink wrap simply because I think it looks
worse than a paint job. In fact, painting a shaft a different color can look
pretty good, I think.
TFlan
- Original Message -
From:
Jeremy Ingle
To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:15
AM
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: FW: exposed
shaft!!
Asking what to do with an exposed shaft would
prove irresistible to our resident comedians. How well did the paint
stand
up?Jeremy.
ShopTalk: Rescue adventure
I bought a couple of 16° TM rescue nearly clones a few weeks ago. I assemble one of them, using a Precision Composites Mach 22 "R" flex shaft. Swingweight = C2! Yikes. So I pulled the shaft and shoved in a tip weight. SW = C5. I popped out the little piece of plastic that covered the hole at the bottom of the hosel and poured some lead powder into the head. SW = D1. O.K. That matched the SW of 2 original Rescues I had on hand. I took the club out to the range. Couldn't hit it at all. Low right. Only way to get it in the air was off a tee. Back to the shop. I pulled the shaft. Heated the head and got the lead powder out. I found a Taylor original Rescue pullout. Once again I started with no lead. SW once again C2. I poured lead into the head until I got to D1. I drilled a 1/8" hole in the sole of the head and filled the head with expandable foam. SW now D2. Voila! It works. Moral of the story; if you buy clone heads like these, weigh them. These heads weighed 232 grams, much too light for a graphite shaft. I got the head to 244 grams by adding lead powder and foam. The OEM Taylor Rescues weigh about 240 - 245 grams. A clone may look good but for sure in many cases the specs aren't close to the real deal. TFlan
