CS>B-6 and the FDA
Hi Silver List, The FDA did not say that one form of B-6 will become an illegal drug (LSD, Cocaine, Anabolic Steroids). Rather, one of "Big Pharma" has applied for a received approval and this one from will be only available as a prescription as a legal drug when approved for marketing. A North Carolina-based firm called Biostratum began manufacturing pyridoxamine-based drug called Pyridorin designed to prevent the progression of diabetic nephropathy (kidney disease). The company then petitioned the FDA to declare pyridoxamine a “new drug,” clearing the way for them to hold an iron-clad monopoly on its sale. NephroGenex, a biotechnology company developing treatments for kidney disease utilizing molecular profiling, entered into licensing agreement with BioStratum Incorporated that acquires commercial rights to Pyridorin(TM) (pyridoxamine dihydrochloride) for diabetic nephropathy. http://www.nephrogenex.com Pyridorin™ has demonstrated a significant treatment effect in slowing the progression of diabetic nephropathy in two Phase 2 clinical trials, and it has been awarded Fast Track status by the FDA. Pyridorin™ is one of the leading drug candidates in advanced clinical trials for diabetic kidney disease.NephroGenex has recently initiated a new Phase 2b clinical trial (PYR-210) that is evaluating the safety and efficacy of Pyridorin™ in slowing the progression of nephropathy in patients with type 2 diabete The FDA agreed with Biostratum, and declared this most popular form of vitamin B-6 to indeed be a “new drug,” using the argument that its medical qualities had been under investigation for years before it was ever used as a nutritional supplement under the DSHEA, which ironically was enacted in 1994 in order to protect nutritional supplements from excessive FDA regulation or removal from the market as drugs. Not to worry, said many observers in the nutritional supplement industry. After all, there are two other natural forms of vitamin B-6 that can still be used in multi-vitamin formulations. The problem is, another drug company has already petitioned the FDA to declare the second most popular form of B-6, pyridoxal 5'-phosphate, which is also called P5P, a “new drug,” apparently for the very same reason pyridoxamine has been declared a drug, i.e., it’s purely medical qualities have been investigated long before it was ever used as a nutritional supplement. How much longer until the third most popular natural form of B-6, pyridoxine will be declared a “drug”? You can bet your boots the pharmaceutical companies are racing to get in on the FDA’s new fast-track for turning B-vitamins into drugs. If that is the case, then B complex formulas and Multi Vitamins will either have to remove B-6 from their formulations or become Rx drugs. There is a petition at https://secure3.convio.net/aahf/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=245 You should also write and call your Congressmen and Senators immediately, and tell them you don’t want the FDA banning any more vitamins by turning them into “drugs.” Steve PS. There is less than 30 days to let the EPA know how you feel about regulating Colloidal Silver. See, http://colloidalsilversecrets.blogspot.com/2009/01/updated-contact-information-for.html for information where and how to post. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>re: avoid gold
Dear List, There is a bit of difference between Gold salts used in drugs and Colloidal Gold, (source of information is Wikipedia (I believe the bulk of information which I am responding was derived from Wikipedia) Two gold drugs remain in active clinical use for this purpose in the United States: sodium aurothiomalate (gold sodium thiomalate) and Aurothioglucose, sold under the trade names Myochrysine and Solgonal, respectively. In the United Kingdom, only sodium aurothiomalate and auranofin are used. Gold thioglucose features gold in the oxidation state of +I, like other gold thiolates. It is a water-soluble, non-ionic species that is assumed to exist as a polymer Under physiological conditions, an oxidation-reduction reaction leads to the formation of metallic gold and sulfinic acid derivative of thioglucose. 2 AuSTg → 2 Au + TgSSTg TgSSTg + H2O → TgSOH + TgSH 2 TgSOH → TgSO2H + TgSH Overall: 2 H2O + 4 AuSTg → 4 Au + TgSO2H + 3 TgSH (where AuSTg = gold thioglucose, TgSSTg = thioglucose disulfide, TgSO2H = sulfinic acid derivative of thioglucose) Disodium aurothiomalate is a chemical compound with the formula AuSCH(CO2Na)CH2CO2Na. In conjunction with its monoprotonated derivative, this coordination complex or closely related species are used to treat rheumatoid arthritis, under the tradename Myochrysine. In vitro experiments have shown that Au(I) can inhibit lymphocyte proliferation, lysosomal enzyme release, the release of reactive oxygen species from macrophages, and IL-1 production. Gold salts can decrease the inflammation of the joint lining. This effect can prevent destruction of bone and cartilage. In former times gold salts were used as second-line drugs (used when the arthritis progressed in spite of antiinflammatory drugs). Nowadays such former "second-line" drugs are used from the beginning of therapy to inhibit joint erosion if possible. The salt CsNa2Au2T(TH) salt (T = thiomalate3-, TH = monoprotonated thiomalate2-) is related to disodium aurothiomalate but is easier to crystallise and characterise by X-ray crystallography. The compound is polymeric with Au-S-Au-S... chains with succinoyl groups attached to the sulfur atoms. Sodium aurothiosulfate is the inorganic compound with the formula Na3Au(S2O3)2·2H2O. This salt contains an anionic linear coordination complex of gold(I) bound to two thiosulfate ligands. Like several other gold compounds, this species is used as an antirheumatic. Colloidal gold, also known as "nanogold", is a suspension (or colloid) of sub-micrometre-sized particles of gold in a fluid — usually water. The nanoparticles themselves can come in a variety of shapes. Spheres, rods, cubes, and caps are some of the more frequently observed ones. Colloidal gold has been successfully used as a therapy for rheumatoid arthritis. Homeopathic Gold, Aurum Metallicum was for the following: Mind.--Feeling of self-condemnation and utter worthlessness. Profound despondency, with increased blood pressure, with thorough disgust of life, and thoughts of suicide. Talks of committing suicide. Great fear of death. Peevish and vehement at least contradiction. Anthropophobia. Mental derangements. Constant rapid questioning without waiting for reply. Cannot do things fast enough. Oversensitiveness; to noise, excitement, confusion.Head.--Eyes.-- Bones.--Destruction of bones, like secondary syphilis. Pain in bones of head, lumps under scalp, exostosis with nightly pains in bones. Caries of nasal, palatine and mastoid bones. Soreness of affected bones, better in open air, worse at night. The rest is at http://homeoint.org/books/boericmm/a/aur.htm There is no listing for Gold at The Agency for Toxic Substances & Disease Registry. There is a listing for Silver. Regards, Steve FossExtreme photophobia. Great soreness all about the eyes and into eyeballs. Double vision; upper half of objects invisible. Feel tense. Sees fiery objects. Violent pains in bones around eye. Interstitial keratitis. Vascular cornea. Pains from without inward. Sticking pains inward. Trachoma with pannus.Violent pain in head; worse at night, outward pressure. Roaring in head. Vertigo. Tearing through brain to forehead. Pain in bones extending to face. Congestion to head. Boils on scalp. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
RE: CS>re cs & antibiotics
Hi Steve Norton, I agree with what you wrote about NCCAM. The original intent was to research Alternative Medicine. From its inception, however, the agency has down nothing but slam anything that isn't orthodox. Of course there favorite reference sources are: Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (a government agency), National Cancer Institute (Tool of the Drug companies), etc. Basically, the NCCAM purpose is to belittle, negate, or ignore the benefits; to scare away the websurfer from using what ever isn't orthodox medicine. There are a few favorable references to Acupuncture, but not much more. http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/ "Colloidal silver may interfere with the body's absorption of the following drugs: penacillamine, quinolones, tetracyclines, and thyroxine."" and The words "may" is the keyword. Of course NCCAM ignores a Brigham-Young Clinical Study. -- This study, published in the journal Current Science in 2006, found that a 19 antibiotic drugs which had previously been able to kill MDR (multiple drug-resistant) pathogens such as MRSA could be restored to full efficacy against the deadly pathogens, but only if a liquid silver solution similar to colloidal silver (a stabilized form of CS called Silver Water Suspension) was used in conjunction with these drugs. The original study noted: Nineteen antibiotics were checked in combination with Silver–Water Dispersion™ solution against seven microbial organisms for synergism. Those combinations of individual antibiotics with Silver– Water Dispersion™ that displayed synergism were further evaluated through the checkerboard method. Synergistic activity of Silver–Water Dispersion™ solution in combination with nineteen antibiotics was tested against seven bacterial strains, except where an organism was known to be resistant to the antibiotic. Out of 96 tests, five were synergistic, 89 additive, and two antagonistic To validate the results of Amoxicillin antagonism,30 mcg dilution of Amoxicillin was prepared in Silver– Water Dispersion™ (32 ppm) solution. 100 ml of this combination was added to a single well, and kept for diffusion followed by incubation. No antagonistic effectswere noted under these conditions as the zone of inhibition observed was 19 mm, comparable to 20 mm with a Silver–Water Dispersion™ and 21 mm with Amoxicillin. Whereas well B having a combination of Penicillin-G and Silver–Water Dispersion ™ demonstrates the powerful clearing ability of Silver–Water Dispersion The study noted that Ciprofloxacin when added to the Silver showed effectiveness that was additive against a variety of pathogens. Ciprofloxacin is a quinolone. Tetracycline was made even more effective with Silver TM. http://www.ihsite.com/user/silver%20water%20dispersion%5D.pdf And a more recent Iranian Clinical Study – This study also found that silver increases the effectiveness of antibiotic drugs against staph infections. The researchers concluded: “The antibacterial activities of penicillin G, amoxicillin, erythromycin, clindamycin, and vancomycin were increased in the presence of silver nano-particles (Ag-NPs) against both test strains. The highest enhancing effects were observed for vancomycin, amoxicillin, and penicillin G against S. aureus." From the synthesis of metallic nanoparticles of silver using a reduction of aqueous Ag+ ion ). NCCAM Searching Silver on the NCCAM site references Silver build-up in the body of animals. However they neglect to mention these studies were based on Silver Nitrate was given to lab rats, dogs, monkeys. The amounts given were 89 "milligrams" per Kilogram of body weight. As to Penicillamine: a pharmaceutical of the chelator class. It is sold under the trade names of Cuprimine and Depen. The pharmaceutical form is D-penicillamine, as L-penicillamine is toxic (it inhibits the action of pyridoxine). It is a metabolite of penicillin, although it has no antibiotic properties. Penicillamine is used as a chelating agent for rare diseases. In Wilson's disease, a rare genetic disorder of copper metabolism, penicillamine treatment relies on its binding to accumulated copper and elimination through urine. In cystinuria, a hereditary disorder featuring formation of cystine stones, penicillamine binds with cysteine to to yield a mixed disulfide which is more soluble than cystine. These are both hereditary disorders and uncommon to rare, (cystinuria is found in 562 out of one million infants screened). Penicillamine has been used to treat mercury poisoning. (So has Silver Chloride). The only reference I can find about Silver and Thryoxine and drug interactions all come from the same source and are repeated verbatim on umpteen websites. The source? The NCCAM website. Regards, Steve Foss -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To
CS>Silver Ions
Dear Silver List, As to regards to my earlier post about Silver Ions vs Metallic Particles 1: Med Eng Phys. 2007 Dec 7. [Epub ahead of print] Links Colloidal silver fabrication using the spark discharge system and its antimicrobial effect on Staphylococcus aureus. Tien DC, Tseng KH, Liao CY, Tsung TT. Graduate Institute of Mechanical and Electrical Engineering, National Taipei University of Technology, No. 1, Sec. 3, Chung-Hsiao E. Rd., Da-An District, Taipei 106, Taiwan. Nanoscale techniques for silver production may assist the resurgence of the medical use of silver, especially given that pathogens are showing increasing resistance to antibiotics. Traditional chemical synthesis methods for colloidal silver (CS) may lead to the presence of toxic chemical species or chemical residues, which may inhibit the effectiveness of CS as an antibacterial agent. To counter these problems a spark discharge system (SDS) was used to fabricate a suspension of colloidal silver in deionized water with no added chemical surfactants. SDS-CS contains both metallic silver nanoparticles (Ag(0)) and ionic silver forms (Ag(+)). The antimicrobial affect of SDS-CS on Staphylococcus aureus was studied. The results show that CS solutions with an ionic silver concentration of 30ppm or higher are strong enough to destroy S. aureus. In addition, it was found that a solution's antimicrobial potency is directly related to its level of silver ion concentration. [Article in German] Benz MR. Pädiatrische Nephrologie, Dr. von Haunersches Kinderspital, Müchen. marcus.b...@med.uni-muenchen.de Curr Probl Dermatol. 2006;33:17-34.Links Silver in health care: antimicrobial effects and safety in use. Lansdown AB. Imperial College Faculty of Medicine, Charing Cross Hospital, London, UK. a.lansd...@imperial.ac.uk Silver has a long and intriguing history as an antibiotic in human health care. It has been developed for use in water purification, wound care, bone prostheses, reconstructive orthopaedic surgery, cardiac devices, catheters and surgical appliances. Advancing biotechnology has enabled incorporation of ionizable silver into fabrics for clinical use to reduce the risk of nosocomial infections and for personal hygiene. The antimicrobial action of silver or silver compounds is proportional to the bioactive silver ion (Ag(+)) released and its availability to interact with bacterial or fungal cell membranes. Silver metal and inorganic silver compounds ionize in the presence of water, body fluids or tissue exudates. The silver ion is biologically active and readily interacts with proteins, amino acid residues, free anions and receptors on mammalian and eukaryotic cell membranes. Bacterial (and probably fungal) sensitivity to silver is genetically determined and relates to the levels of intracellular silver uptake and its ability to interact and irreversibly denature key enzyme systems. Silver exhibits low toxicity in the human body, and minimal risk is expected due to clinical exposure by inhalation, ingestion, dermal application or through the urological or haematogenous route. Chronic ingestion or inhalation of silver preparations (especially colloidal silver) can lead to deposition of silver metal/silver sulphide particles in the skin (argyria), eye (argyrosis) and other organs. These are not life-threatening conditions but cosmetically undesirable. Silver is absorbed into the human body and enters the systemic circulation as a protein complex to be eliminated by the liver and kidneys. Silver metabolism is modulated by induction and binding to metallothioneins. This complex mitigates the cellular toxicity of silver and contributes to tissue repair. Silver allergy is a known contra-indication for using silver in medical devices or antibiotic textiles. Regards, Steve Foss -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Re: Blue Nails.
Dear Marshall, You wrote: "I am not sure why you posted all this. All that is known, and has already been discussed." Why did I post this? There are more people with Cyanosis in the US than with Argyria. Not everyone reads every Silver List. And what about any person who may have joined? I was merely pointing out that there are other reasons besides Argyria for blue moons. If this information was stated before, that's good and it is worth stating again. Some cases of "Blue Moons," and Blue Nails have medical implications that are quite serious. Poisoning in children for one comes to mind. Blue Moons have been found in the literature for HIV. Did the previous postings list all the medical reasons for cyanosis? "A sky blue moon that goes away with pressure, is completely different than a slate blue that does not." Not all cases of Cyanosis disappear with pressure. Not all Cyanosis are sky blue. Not all cases of Argyria are Slate Blue. Some are Slate Grey. Some in the Case of Paul Karason are a Deep Violet Blue. You are entitled to your opinion in regard to my postings. Best Regards, Steve Foss -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>RE Mesosilver/Ionic Silver Debate.
Dear Steve N. Here is some quick and dirty cut and paste to answer your question. I think the information you are looking for is at http://www.hydrosolinfo.com/articles/silver-2005-01-07.php John W. Roberts, Ph.D. of Natural-Immunogenics Corp (a competitor of MesoSilver) performed an experiment comparing MesoSilver and Natural-Immunogenics Corp product (Colloidal Silver predominately Silver Ions). The end result was Ionic Silver became more effective in the presence of HCl acid and Silver Particles did not. As the test seems to have been performed "in house" and not by an independent laboratory, there is the usual criticism on my part. Before any starts to point any fingers at John Roberts, Ph.D., Mr Roberts was refuting the information on http://www.silver-colloids.com written by Frank Keys and performed by CSL in house (owned by Frank Keys). Frank Keys responded with a test performed by EMSL labs, the response is at the bottom of the of http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/bogus-bio-study.html (EMSL Analytical, Inc. is an environmental testing firm, the EMSL Analytical, Inc. network of laboratories offer a wide array of services supporting investigations in asbestos, microbiology, lead, chemistry, indoor air quality and industrial hygiene applications.) "View the study results here. (click link at site for PDF) The study clearly shows that the effectiveness of the ionic silver product was substantially reduced as a result of being exposed to stomach acid while the colloidal silver product remained effective against the bacteria." http://www.hydrosolinfo.com/articles/silver-2005-05-21.php"; I will assume a response by Natural-Immunogenics was a test performed by STS Duotek, an independent, FDA licensed, 3rd party laboratory: http://www.hydrosolinfo.com/articles/silver-2005-05-21.php (STS Duotek tests are conducted in accordance with applicable Quality System Regulation (QSR)/Good Manufacturing Practice (GMP) requirements and, when requested, in accordance as well with Good Laboratory Practice (GLP) regulations. Routine internal auditing, trending, and management review of progress ensures continual improvement of the quality system, as well as accuracy and strict adherence to both the FDA and ISO requirements. Somewhat better pedigree than EMSL.) Sovereign Silver demonstrated superior broad spectrum antimicrobic activity against all three of the U.S.P. <51> bacteria, compared to the 6 competitive product performances, as tested, some of which were effective against only one or two of the challenge microorganisms. Sovereign Silver killed a minimum of 13 times as many Staph. aureus as did the next most effective competitor…. and in most cases, Sovereign Silver was almost 1,600 X more potent than other competitors. Sovereign Silver killed over 4 times more E. coli than Mesosilver, 13 times more than Silver Biotics, and in most cases, thousands of times more E. coli than any other competitor. Sovereign Silver was about 40 X more potent than Mesosilver and 50 X more potent than Silver Biotics vs. P. aerugenosa, and at least 5,000 X more potent than other competitive products vs. P. aerugenosa. The website www.hydrosolinfo.com by coincidence is hosted by the same webhost as natural-immunogenics.com with a hydrosolinfo.com as the Organization and no address other than the webhost. (Draw you own conclusions). Is this science or a contest between to business competitors? Best Regards, Steve F. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Ionic Silver transport throught the digestive tract an into the cells.
Hi Silver List. Taking Colloidal Silver by mouth (and with food) raises the point of metalloproteins. "Your saliva has over 200 different proteins and fully one third of body proteins are metalloproteins I.E. carrying metallic ions. Thus, reactive ions (missing one or more electrons) can be transported past the stomach and thru the circulatory system without local reactions, ie Silver Ions reacting with chloride ions to from Silver chloride. Metal ion substitution permits even a zinc metalloprotein to take up the silver ion and release the zinc ion. The free, ionized zinc, which would be toxic if permitted to accumulate, binds to a metal regulatory element on the promoter region of the metallothionein gene and "turns on" the synthesis of more metallothionein. Metallic ions, either free or disassociated from dissolved soluble salts are absorbed and isolated by ligands in the saliva, usually metalloproteins. (The main reason you are meant to chew your food well). Metallothionein (MT) is a relatively small molecule that binds heavy metals including silver, cadmium, iron, copper and zinc, and is made by most cells in our body. MT's production can be induced in the intestinal cells where it is thought to help keep us from absorbing a lot of toxic heavy metals such as cadmium. MT is also thought to be involved in the regulation of the cellular concentration of the essential minerals copper and zinc. The lining of our blood vessels is made up of a specific cell type called endothelial cells. Whereas the intestinal cell is the first barrier to the absorption of minerals, the endothelial cells are the secondary barrier to getting minerals into our tissues and organs. " Cells are constantly pumping ions in and out through their plasma membranes. In fact, more than half the energy that our bodies consume is used by cells to drive the protein pumps in the brain that do nothing else but transport ions across plasma membranes of nerve cells. This same process is used throughout the body. How can ions be transported across membranes that are effectively impermeable to them? Cells contain proteins that are embedded in the lipid bilayer of their plasma membranes (which are also Colloidal in nature) and extend from one side of the membrane through to the other. Such transmembrane proteins function to effect ion transport. " I apologize for the cut and paste, however, I have little time for writing at present and the issue of Silver Ions/Silver chloride has resurfaced. I have known too many people with Terminal Cancer alive today that used Colloidal Silver produced by low voltage DC Generators (90 % Silver Ions) who are neither blue nor dead after being given months to live. Regards, Steve PS Silver Ions can also be sub lingually absorbed. PPS Also Google the Ammonia Hypothesis -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Re: CS and Blue Moons
Hi Silver List, Did I read this correctly, is the writer inferring that People with Blue Moons have Argyria? I only briefly perused this posting, however, "Blue Moons" in the Finger Nails have many possible causes besides Argyria. Hypoxia or the lack of oxygen is often manifested in a condition called cyanosis, a blue discolouration. Cyanosis can occur in the fingers, including underneath the fingernails, as well as other extremities (called peripheral cyanosis), or in the lips and tongue (central cyanosis). It occurs when the oxygen saturation of arterial blood falls below 85-90%. Cynanosis is not specifically limited to Mt Everest Climbers and High Altitude Balloonists; individuals with some forms of heart disease, blood conditions, drug side effects, or lung diseases (either Chronic or Acute cases) exhibit this condition as in the following: # Arterial obstruction # Cold exposure (due to vasoconstriction) # Raynaud's phenomenon (vasoconstriction) (a co-worker developed this disease as a result of frost-bite when lost in the wilderness) # Reduced cardiac output (e.g. heart failure, hypovolaemia) # Vasoconstriction (medication) # Venous obstruction (e.g. deep vein thrombosis) # Abnormal hemoglobin levels (blood loss from bleeding ulcer for example) # Bronchospasm # Congenital heart disease # Heart failure # Heart valve disease # High altitude # Hypothermia # Hypoventilation # Lung disease # Myocardial infarction # Polycythaemia # Pulmonary embolism # COPD (Emphysema and Chronic Bronchitis) # Asthma In my 30 years in the health field I saw a quantity of individuals (especially in the elderly, but not limited to the elderly) with blue moons. Needless to say, with a rare exception or two, none of these people had ever taken CS. The one time I required a trip to the ER for anaphylactic shock due to a food allergy, my "moons" were indeed bluish in color, however my fingers were not. This predated my taking Colloidal Silver in any form by 25 years. Best Regards, Steve Foss -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>RE: Silver non-neurotoxicity.
Hi Silver List, Re Silver and non-neurotoxicity: Below is an abstract of an vitro (test-tube) trial in which Colloidal Silver showed protective against the type of free radical damage (Reactive Oxygen Species) caused by chemotherapy and observed in some forms of neuro-degenerative illnesses. The Brain Cells cultured where Astrocytes. Astrocytes are star-shaped glial cells in the brain and spinal cord. They perform many functions, including biochemical support of endothelial cells which form the blood-brain barrier, the provision of nutrients to the nervous tissue (neurons), and a principal role in the repair and scarring process in the brain The study show: Colloidal Silver was non-toxic to Astrocytes and showed Anti-oxidant properties. Colloidal Silver did not protect against H2O2 free radical damage, which in my opinion is a positive finding, Colloidal Silver does not interfere H2O2 which is used by the Immune System. >From the Abstract available online at Pubmed.com Central Research Institute, Natural F&P Co., LTD, Chunchon, South Korea. drki...@hanmail.net One major pathogenesis in degenerative disorders of the central nervous system (CNS), including Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, and ischemia, is the oxidative stress induced by reactive oxygen species (ROS). The present study investigated the protective effect of colloidal silver, which is widely marketed as a dietary supplement for diseases like diabetes, AIDS, cancer, and various infections, upon the oxidative brain damage induced by H(2)O(2) or naphthazarin treatment. LDH release from primary cultured astrocytes was enhanced by naphthazarin treatment, and this elevation of the LDH concentration in medium was blocked by colloidal silver treatment. However, hydrogen peroxide was little affected by the colloidal silver. Fluorescence of DCF (peroxides) increased in astrocytes incubated with hydrogen peroxide or naphthazarin compared to the control. When exposed to naphthazarin-induced cells, ROS formation appeared to be reduced by colloidal silver. However, intracellular ROS formation in hydrogen peroxide-treated cells slightly reduced by colloidal silver. These results suggest that colloidal silver has a protective activity against the oxidative stress induced by naphthazarin, but not by hydrogen peroxide. Kim DW, Hong GH, Lee HH, Choi SH, Chun BG, Won CK, Hwang IK, Won MH. Effect of colloidal silver against the cytotoxicity of hydrogen peroxide and naphthazarin on primary cultured cortical astrocytes. Int J Neurosci. 2007 Mar;117(3):387-400. Best Regards, Steve Foss -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Re: Ions and particles, etc.
Hi David You wrote: "Sure he knew the difference between ions and particles, he just had wrong info about the the proportions of those things in the batches he was testing." Based on Frank's website commentary? I re-read Professor Gibbs book, page 13 "The total silver concentration reported on the products in this study are determined from chemical analysis and are a function of: 1. the particulate silver 2. the dissolved silver" While most of the products investigate for this study have concentrations of silver in the 3 to 10 parts per million [ppm] range, the actual proportions between dissolved and particulate material were rarely discussed in a quantitative manner on the labels." (Yes Prof Gibbs called Ionic Silver dissolved) Since I cannot cut and paste from his book, and have to type all the quotes from it, I have to for brevity of time just type the highlights. "In fact, anaylses conducted on these products indicated that a great deal of the material in many of the samples was dissolved (my parenthesis, ionic) in nature." Prof Gibbs continues to state the lower concentrations of particulate silver were found and the combined value of both forms of silver were given.. "While the concentration of silver in colloidal silver samples is important, concentration alone is misleading without knowing the proportion of dissolved material to particulate material and without knowing the size distribution of particles. We should always try to ascertain the proportion of dissolved material to particulate silver material as well as the size distrbution of the particulat silver if we are to know the quality of the colloidal silver product we are using." In the previous 2 paragraph he address large particle size as well as concentration, "As an example, in a ten ppm sample actually composed of half dissolved and half particulate there could be only five ppm of colloidal particles present." In the next paragraph, "In the example discused above having having half of the silver in particulate form [5ppm] dominate by large particles [greater than 1 micron] the efeective colloidal silver present could be very low, even less than one ppm, hardly an effective suspension of colloidal silver." The next chapter deals with confocal microscopic examination of the colloidal silver, in which he eliminates four samples for large particles on the bottom of the samples "of unindentifiable material, hair, large Silver particles not in suspension, fibrous organic material (paper fibers)." A fifth sample is eliminated because of bacteria. A sixth sample was eliminated for having high amounts of Flocs (clustering of silver particles). Three additional samples had flocs. We are now at 6 eliminated Prof G then said he found three samples "with a number of small clusters along with a number of small silver particles." We are now at 9 eliminated Prof G then went to example dried samples under the confocal microscope. Anything other than metal particles. Subsequently Prof G went to TEM examination. I am not an expert on TEMs although I do remember that the TEMs I ran across use a vacuum chamber for the specimens to be observed. (Has anyone place Ionic Silver in a vacuum chamber to "boil away the water and thus eliminate the possibility of producing silver oxide in the drying process?) After examination all but one product was eliminated as ideal. This I believe was rated 5 stars. (There were several 4 star products with 3 star, 2 star, 1 star making up the balance and are all are referenced in the Bacteria study in vitro.) By page 25 there is commentary about AC and DC generated Colloidal Silver with the statement that DC was the highest in Ionic Silver and had very low level of metal particles. The AC process was the method in which all the "4 star product" (out of 5 stars) were produced. (The HVAC Colloidal Silver is produced either by a total submersion method or a plasma underwater arc method.) "I think its pretty obvious CSL did all the analysis of the physical properties of the 15 samples." On what do you base that assumption? It isn't obvious to me. Nowhere did CSL labs receive mention in the book. It could be equally obvious that the 15 samples were tested at Univeristy of Delaware. Their are also plenty of FDA approved labs in the vicinity of Delaware but why use them if you have facilities in house. "In addition to that, they actually 'made' some of the samples." Did MesoSilver make some of the samples or CSL? The report mentions 15 retail products. Are you suggesting "Ringers" were used or one or more of the retail products were manufactured by Frank's company? "'Where' Ron Gibbs did the follow up testing on the samples I dont know. " "Perhaps the booklet reveals 'where', but I just tried to read Ron Gibbs booklet again and to be honest I gave up. Its a pointless excercise. Obviously he did NOT know what he was playing with" (Pl
CS>Ions in Food
Dear Kathryn, You wrote "Interesting point. I was not aware that silver ions occur in food." Whole Wheat (Wheat Germ), Mushrooms, Shell Fish, and Marine Fish are natural sources of Silver. Or more to the point, Minerals in food (either from plants or the animals that eat the plants) are Ionic. Best Regards -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Re
Dear David, you wrote "I'm confused about your point here. That comment in quotes above is mine. It's not a quote from silver-colloids and I'm not sticking up for mesosilver." I said it "sounded like." I am not attacking MesoSilver. I do have an issue over Silver-Colloids.com definitions which conflict with reliable sources of information. "I basically agree. But I believe Frank when he implies that the techniques for determining THE RATIO of ions to colloids was not perfected. (At least not at Colloidal Science Labs who, I think, did the analysis)." I wonder why Frank implies this? Professor Gibbs noted the High Level Ions in the Electrically produced CS. Professor Gibbs even distinguished between the two forms. "Thats an interesting interpretation. I hadn't looked at it like that. But I don't agree. I don't believe Frank Key would simply lie about this. I havent studied the site for a few years but (as i recall) heres how the situation appeared to me. (And apologies if I have this wrong). Frank Key and Ron Gibbs were friends and colleagues. The purpose was to release a booklet that would have the effect of promoting their colloidal CS (mesosilver) whilst casting doubt on ionic CS. Frank Key made and analysed the 'good' CS, using technology he had available at the time, and mistakenly told Ron it was 'colloidal'. Ron did the follow-up research and, as predicted, found that colloidal CS worked better than ionic CS. But then a problem popped up. Frank discoved the 'good stuff' he had made wasn't colloidal (by his definition) at all. It was at least 50% ionic, just like all the other stuff. So Ron Gibbs had simply proved that Franks good ionic CS worked better than other peoples crappy ionic CS. So what does Frank do about it?" Easy... just admit (in the hard to find FAQs) that a mistake was made but leave the brochure on the website hoping that not too many people realise its got almost nothing to do with mesosiver at all. You gotta admire Franks solution. It's not dishonest, it doesn't show disrespect for his friend, and it still has the effect of promoting mesosilver!" (Your memory serves you well.) If Professor Gibbs had mentioned the brand names, it would have simplified matters. He did not. So we do not know which brand was High quality. And this is what I don't understand: Professor Gibbs goes to great length to explain that he was examining 15 different brands of commercially sold (retail) Colloidal Silver. Professor Gibbs states that the "DC Produced Colloidal Silver that we have tested had the highest value of ionic silver present..." Obviously, Professor Gibbs knew what Silver Ions were as opposed to the Metallic particles and stated so. (Yes, I am repeating myself, but it is worth repeating) (Quote from FAQ page you referenced above:For example, the samples that Ron tested, some of which were made for him in the Colloidal Science Lab. Inc.(CSL) were believed by Ron to be at least 50% colloidal when in fact they were mostly ionic (typically 90%). The methods developed at CSL to determine ionic vs. particle concentration were just being developed at the time Ron wrote the book and so he was not fully informed about the ion/particle ratio of the test samples and consequently made some erroneous assumptions. Ron assumed the sample were at least 50% particles when they were only 10%.) Professor Gibbs explains the methodology used in examining the samples. He even list the brand names of the equipment used, a Confocal Microscope and a Transmission Electron Microscope. This sounds like an in house job. Professor Gibbs does not state that any tests on the 15 brands were performed by any outside laboratory. If Prof Gibbs was such a good friend and colleague, one would think that he would have mentioned and acknowledge the assistance of such a good friend and his business. As a Academic professional, anything outsourced to another lab would have to be mentioned, the tests performed and on what equipment, and the Lab's "pedigree." Not to do so would be a source of criticism against the books findings. The Purpose of the book was: "The objective of this presentation is to provided a clear, thorough understanding of what to look for and and what to avoid in choosing good colloidal silver products. He continues, "Information presently available about colloidal silver products is sometimes confusing and is often misleading. Much of the advertising and "literature" about colloidal silver is written by non-experts and is slanted toward promoting a particular product or particular devices to make it." You additionally, wrote, "Silver ions and silver particles (colloids) are obviously very different critters. Unlike many of his competitors (such as Natural- Immunogenics) Frank always makes this very clear and I applaud him for that. I don't know if mesosilver works or not, but at least i think I know what
CS>re: CS-silver-colloids.com
Dear David you wrote: "Actually it was me not Neville who wrote the quote that you open with below." I read the header in haste, and already made my apologies to Neville in private 'And perhaps I wasn't clear in my purpose. My question should have been "What method is used to make these products that are at least 50% colloidal?" If they are not MSP then how are they made? Its something I've wondered about for a long time.' For that you have to ask the manufacturer. "Incidentally, Ron Gibbs conclusions can be viewed in a whole new light when you realise that didn'tt actually know what he was studying." That sounds like a direct quote from Silver-colloids.com Prof Gibbs was more than well aware of what he was studying. He was studying Retail "Colloidal Silver." He noted the Silver Ions in two of the Colloidal Silver samples he had from commercial sources. Prof Gibbs wasn't an undergraduate student. He was the director of the Center for Colloidal Science in the U of Delaware for 15 years, had published over 85 peer reviewed journal articles and 5 technical reports, edited 14 books and had presented 61 talks nationally and internationally. His research and teaching dealt with a wide variety of topics involving colloidal materials; hot to analyse them, what they are composed of, what happens the them in nature. He had a specialy involving stuudies of metals accociated with colloidal particles, including toxicity and benefits. His book was written "after observing an abundance of incorrect and misleading opinions in advertising and related literature, coupled with the lack of availability of correct and useful information."(The above is taken from his introduction to his book on Colloidal Silver.) (I find this Ironic, as his book is available as a free download from silver-colloids.com which is a best an infomercial site.) Colloids and their properties had been known to science for than 120 years when Gibbs took his post. The American Chemical Society Division of Colloid and Surface Chemistry Symposium was celebrating its 66th annual event. With all the resources of the U of Delware, I believe Prof Gibbs knew exactly what he was dealing with. "At the time of his reseach the techniques used to analyse CS were so underdeveloped that he thought he was examining 'colloidal' silver when in fact he was examining ionic silver. Thats why he makes the rather odd statement that the best CS is 'clear' on a website thats promoting a product that clearly isn't." Another Silver-Colloids.com quote. Transmission Electron Microscopes had been available since 1939, Scanning Electron Microscopes had been commercially availalbe since 1965. Atomic absorption spectroscopy had been available since the late 1950's. There are of course other methods. The Technology had been around for decades. Universities usually have access to cutting edge tech long before the private sector does, too. This isn't to say that in 8 years time there haven't been improvements and advances, this is a given, but I wouldn't say Prof Gibbs was in the stone-age as the website infers. Plus there are hundreds of independent FDA approved Labs he could have accessed. If as the website owner maintains that Prof Gibbs changed his opinion before his death, why didn't Prof Gibbs write a letter confirming this? A verbal "personal communication" that cannot be verified is a convenient explanation, but hardly proof. A paper trail would be nice. "You'll find this revealed in the FAQ's on silver-colloids website in answer to a question about "Why is mesosilver colored?" The answer is worth reading in full." I have read it, many times, and come to the same conclusion each time: Balderdash. Here is why. If the particles are as small as manufacturer claims, even into the hundreds of millions, these particles would be very diffuse and scattering light in so many directions that insufficient light would reach the human eye. One way to overcome this would be to increase the concentration to multiple 100s of PPM. Another explanation is the particle size isn't what it claims to be. The particle size he is claiming is so small that one would have to enlarge it 175,000 times to observe it. By comporasion, A small stone in the palm of one's hand if magnified 175,000 would appear as large as Mt. Everest. His particle size claim is about 56 angstrom. Visible light is between 4,000 violet angstroms to 7,000 angstroms dark red. Yellow is at 5700 angstroms. However, I have also read the rants against Transmission Electron Microscopy by said owner of one of his websites. A TEM was used by Professor Gibbs to examine potentional high quality Colloidal Silver in including those made by the Electro Colloidal method which Gibbs noted the Silver Ion content in his book and an Electron Microscope was more recently as 2006 to observe how Colloidal Silver kills HIV 1 in the lab by U of Texas and the
CS>Re: silver-colloids.com
Dear Neville, You wrote: "Looking at the reports on silver-colloids.com it appears that the products that are classified as 'colloidal' have quite low ionic silver levels. I assume these are the products most likely to be high voltage but I could be wrong." High Voltage DC or High Voltage AC is not the reason for the "classified as 'colloidal' have quite low ionic silver levels." It may have more to do with "high voltage" sales tactics. Products classified as Colloidal deal with particle size range and how the particles are held in this system. A Colloid is in essence a type of mechanical mixture where one substance is dispersed evenly throughout another. It is not a solution. The particle size is between one nanometer (1/1000 of a micron) and 1 micron. Fog, Smoke, Red Stained Glass, Milk, and Paint for example are Colloids. Because of this dispersal, some colloids have the appearance of solutions. A hydrosol is a colloid with water as the dispersing medium. The website www.silver-colloids.com which appears to be an information site is in fact owned by a commercial colloidal silver manufacturer and seller. His retail site links extensively to this website to back up his claims that EICS is not Colloidal Silver. Here is my opinion: The main purpose of silver-colloids.com is to slam EICS (Commercially available EICS) and Colloidal Silver Generators to sell his bottle colloidal silver product. The website makes some provacative statements: "If the product is clear, then it is ionic silver, not a true silver colloid," (The late Professor Ronald J. Gibbs, of the Center for Colloidal Science at the University of Delaware in his book,Silver Colloids, Do They Work?, wrote, "The highest quality Colloidal Silver is colorless." If a yellow color is present in the product it is probably indicating that some other unwanted substance is present causing the color, or that the particles are too large, either way indicating the colloidal silver product is not acceptable nor is the highest quality.) and elsewhere on this website: "We do not provide advice on making colloidal silver at home. Many companies sell colloidal silver generators and dozens of web sites provide information for experimenters and home hobbyists. All the machines sold for making colloidal silver use an electrolysis process and make ionic silver. There are no machines sold that are capable of making true colloidal silver." Harvard University Physics department considers Electrically produced Silver Ions as Colloidal Silver. I found this bit of information at the Harvard Physics Website in connection with a lesson. Although I did not have permission to access their homepage on the Colloidal Silver Generator (and its construction), please note below: from http://www.physics.harvard.edu/~wilson/arsenic/remediation/Silver%20Ceramic/CS.htm "The present success of the CS (Colloidal Silver) generator is largely attributable to the high quality of the new electrical unit, which converts 240AC to 24DC. What is indicated here is a simple cost analysis of producing this kind of CS. The concentrated CS generator shown on the home page is currently utilizing two flasks, of 2.4 liters each. However additional flasks can be wired into the system, up to eight in all. Given that each flask contains about 500 ppm of CS, this will saturate sixteen candles. So, 8 flasks x 16 candles per flask = 128 candles, the daily production of concentrated CS. Several people have asked whether the flask size can be increased, so as to get bigger volumes of CS, and in my view this may be tricky. For example, if the flask size is doubled then the wet surface area of electrodes must be increased, quite clearly. And the DC voltage would also need to be increased. But at what DC voltage would the system require safety apparatus? While we feel confident that the 24 volts DC for the generator is perfectly safe, at additional voltage would tend toward an unsafe system. Would a 4.8 liter flask require double the voltage, something like 48 volts DC? And would this require the enclosure of the leads to the circuit, so as to avoid a shock to the operator? Post Script of 23 April: If the producers are purchasing the concentrated colloidal silver, for saturation of their filters, then this should be carefully sourced. It may be considered best to know the form of the silver, resulting within the filter, in case further studies on these are at some point considered desireable. In general, however, silver is considered to be among the most benign of substances, no harmful health effects associated." I guess someone should inform the Harvard Physics department they are not producing "True Colloidal Silver." As to www.silver-colloids.com I won't go into a line by line analysis of the website's "Reign of Error." I would be typing for days. (The owner has a background in engineering and
RE: CS>OT: cleaning microwave guts
Dear Malcolm, Very good explanation of how Caps regain a charge after being discharge. For that reason I attached clipped leads to the caps after discharging them On the subject of Power supply caps, I recommend some type of resistance rather than say a direct short from an old tool to drain the cap unless you plan on replacing the cap. Using the direct short method can damage either the Caps plates, the di-electric, or both. Regards, Steve Foss
CS>Safety
Evening Wayne, >I was aware of everything you said, . I simply did not deduct >that anyone here would be working with some of these things. Well someone may have either written about AC colloidal Silver Generators which infers high voltage, or maybe they had a dual power supply (AC rectified into DC to be used in place of batteries) when I quickly perused the list. I have seen other posts referring to converting Microwaves into Colloidal Silver Generators and Gold Generators elsewhere on the internet, so I couldn't keep silent in either case. The subject is bound to come up. You cannot talk about Safety too early. Working on High Voltage Devices can make the incautious unconscious. Or worse (Although High Voltage usually means over a Kilovolt) >I have been shocked with 750 VDC. Only once, I did not stay >connected long, it knocked me all >the way across the room. That happened to a friend of mine, he reached to turn on an electrical switch on a Tube Amp he was repairing and inadvertently discharged a electrolytic filter capacitor. He was knocked over a five foot glass display case, and behind the counter. He only remembers reaching for the switch and the picking himself up off the ground. >True indeed. I have some new capacitors, rated at 5000 V I >think, and others that are the largest I have seen, other than >coupling capacitors for power systems. I have worked only with 600V Capacitors, although I have stacked them to make higher voltage and lower Cap Values. I've worked 1000+V Coupling caps but at lower voltages than 1000V;I use over rated parts in my work. >Likely you have seen them, Capacitor Rooms, a room full >of capacitors that make your hair stand up, even at the door. Not >for the faint hearted. Yes, very briefly, I rather walk in to a room full of Cobras; at least you can get anti-venom. (Grins). >Many do not understand that, of course. >Now, . how many Step Down Transformers, with the >intended primary of 480 VAC, have you seen, that was connected backwards ? >The 480 was connected to the secondary. >This made the turns ratio reversed. Instead of the 480 being >stepped down, it was in fact, stepped up. I have not seen wired backwards unintentionally, I have actually wired two identical transformers one back to back with two transformers to make a composite isolation transformer, or to use one lower voltage and to use the "backward" transformer for a B+ that I then used with a voltage doubler. Transformers can be used either direction depending on what you are trying to do. >That is a gosh awful situation. A man that worked for me, not as >knowledgeable as he should be, tried to measure the output, >not knowing that the voltage was several thousand volts. >Of course the meter melted down, and went up in smoke. The man was >lucky. I had only one meter melt down on me. I was working with a transformer that had wrong specifications, 32 Volts AC but the amperage was higher than rated on its specification sheet, (it was actually 12 amps) over the rating of my DVM. On the higher voltage that needs to be tested I use insulated probes on my HP VTVM (Vacuum Tube Voltage Meter). Its rated to 1000V & higher Amps than many of the conventional VOM or DVM you can buy at a Radio Shack. >Always beware of the people there before you. Too true. >I am not afraid of any of them. I did not say, .. I have no >respect.I >have high voltage probes, rubber gloves ( with leather on >top of the rubber ) >and have serviced and calibrated high voltage >test equipment. Maybe I was being melodramatic, I work with circuits (but not into the Kilovolts) lets say I have equal respect for AC & DC, but I respect more DC as I work in higher DC voltages than AC. Either could injury the inattentive. >I stand on a rubber mat, touch nothing with the power applied, and I >do discharge capacitors. An extra layer of protection is just that, it helps but isn't 100%. Just trying to eliminate another path to ground. Beats the Air Force method of "Grounding" your "probe" arm by physically making contact with a surface. >I connect services, with power on, directly from the pole. I did not >say I like to do this or that I do it often. Only in rare cases, do >I get backed into the corner. In our part of California, they make the electric company switch of the power. Inconvenience is better than liability. The Electric Company's line, "We had to turn off someone else power to install yours." >You could have made the most important statement about them. >They offer protection from the Power Wire ( called HOT by some ) to >the neutral, but offer >zero protection from the power wire to ground. A very good point, which I omitted in my haste, along with "Don't bet on a GFIC to protect you in every instance. >They could do both. Not sure why they are not designed to do so. I don't know the answer to that ques
CS>RE OT Microwave Guts, etc
Dear Kathryn, I would consider the vapors ammonia solutions as potentional airborne toxins. Just my two cents. Regards, Steve Foss
RE: CS>OT: cleaning microwave guts
Hi Steve Norton, Just a brief comment (for me) "Before you open the microwave, let it set for 2 to 3 days unplugged to discharge the capacitors. BTW, TVs also have a high voltage capacitor on the versions with a picture tube." Uplugged Television Capacitors can carry High Voltage charges for longer than several days. As everyone may know, the first use of Capacitors was to store Electricity. I would worry about the Microwave Caps, too, although I haven't worked on any. Not all TVs and I can only guess Microwaves or not as the case may be have bleeder resistors across the high voltage capacitors to discharge them. Unfortunately Consumer Grade Appliances are dollar driven designs. A manufacture will leave out parts (sometimes call Munzting) to save a pittance. I can and have purchased resistors at a fraction of a penny for manufacturing. Bean Counters working for Mass Market Manufacturers seem to have more control in industrial design than engineers. That fraction of a penny multiplied by 500,000 parts comes to $3,500 at the end of the year for one design alone. In other words to save a few dollars, manufactures will omit parts that would make a design safer. They have consistently done this unless required by regulatory statute for safety concerns. When I work on anything with high voltage caps, I discharge them use using a "Snuffer Stick" (It has a 200K, 2 watt resistor in series with the nose probe and ground wire to large clip for ground on the other) and then use clip leads on the caps to ground. I haven't worked on Microwaves and bow to your experience in this area. I wouldn't have them in my house for years. I remember all the Pacemaker warnings. Best Regards, Steve Foss
Re: CS>generator advice? ( Safety Lectures )Wednesday, September 10, 2008 12:31 PM
Dear Silver List, I would be more concerned with Capacitors as to being a potentially fatal electrical component. Capacitors used in power supplies, especially, can hold charges for long periods of time (weeks and longer) even when the appliance is unplugged. Capacitors can even after being discharged re-energize to be a shock hazard, potentially injurious ones at that. You don't see Caps (as capacitors are sometimes called) in most Colloidal Silver Generators; you will see them used in high voltage devices. The Secondary windings on transformers are the next most dangerous electrocution hazard (the device is plugged into an electrical outlet). I am personally more attentive (read afraid) of DC Voltages than AC. AC can hurt you, but DC grips onto until you are good and end. High Voltage, AC or DC, is best left to the trained professional. A GFI (Ground Fault Indicator) outlet will trip with an AC fault or short and provide some protection against AC (think hair dryer or radio falling into a bathtub or sink), but a GFI provides no protection against DC shorts or faults. (No AC fault to trip the protection) Not to steal Wayne's thunder, here are my safety list for working on any electrical circuit: 1. Do not work when you are Tired, Inebriated, or Upset. 2. Remove all jewelry, including wedding rings. 3. Wear Rubber Sole Shoes. (A rubber mat in addition is smart when working on a cement floor.) 4. Have the device on a wooden or other non conductive workbench. 5. If you have long hair, tie it back 6. Never trust an on/off switch, unplug from the outlet.. 7. If you have to reach into the device when it is plugged in, keep one hand in your pocket. I also use rubber gloves (the thick type used for washing dishes). 8. A chopstick is better than a hand in most instances to "poke" around in the above case. 9. Wear Safety Goggles one soldering. Never Solder into a live (plugged in) Circuit. 9. Never work when distracted (TV show, Nagging spouse or kids, Talking on the Telephone). But the most Important rule is: 10. If you don't have a clue what you are doing, stop and find someone who does. It is cheaper in the long run. (Funerals can be quite expensive.) Resistors and diodes threat vanishes (unless tied to a Cap) as soon as the power chord is removed from the outlet. We use to joke Resistors are more likely to be fatal if swallowed (choking hazard), diodes likewise. Steve Foss
RE: CS>Particle size - Comments please
Hi Bob Larson, Hi, Liver and the kidneys both are involved in the excretion of silver. I suggest http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/AltmanStudy.PDF on Silver excretion from the body. Silver Dust ranges from very large particles to microscopic. In Scandinavia, Silver Reclaimation workers have been observed in 20 year plus studies. They were in perfect health. The organ damage cited was from a study of Mine workers who beside being exposed to Silver were also exposed to Cadmium (known heavy metal poison injurious to kidneys). The Toxicological Registry Report notes this and says that silver and kidney damage in this case has to be discounted. The writers that cite this 1990 study for kidney damage are committing the sin of omission, or at least are taking part of the quote out of context to support their position. You can find the study at the CDC website if you know where to look. It is peer reviewed. Colloidal Silver taken orally causing injury: Mirsattari SM, et al. Myoclonic status epilepticus following repeated oral ingestion of colloidal silver. Neurology 2004;62:1408-10. Researchers concluded that the neurotoxicity and the resulting death were due to ingestion of colloidal silver. This one case and only of Silver and Seizures (status epilepticus, continuing seizures) dealt with a 71 year old man who took Colloidal Silver and FOUR VITAMIN SUPPPLEMENTS over a 4 month period. How much CS, what PPM, and what type of CS was never addressed in the study. The 4 neurologists had the man on plasmapheresis as his blood levels in tests showed high silver levels. After being treated (to remove the silver) the man still in a coma, and died 5 1/2 months later. Status epilepticus is defined as recurrent or continuous seizure activity lasting longer than 30 minutes in which the patient does not regain baseline mental status, in other words regaining consciousness. In the United States, the overall mortality is 10-15%. In people who are note epilectic, its first appearance normally indicates a tumour, abscess, or traumatic brain injury. The after the first 5 minutes of the seizure, the damage can be sufficient to prevent the patient from reawakening on their own. The 5 doctors writing the above paper published in Neurology concluded it was the silver that induced the status epilepticus. Here is what the doctors wrote. Mind you they did not mention the supplements the man was taking as a possible contributory factor: "The authors report a case of a 71-year-old man who developed myoclonic status epilepticus and coma after daily ingestion of colloidal silver for 4 months resulting in high levels of silver in plasma, erythrocytes, and CSF. Despite plasmapheresis, he remained in a persistent vegetative state until his death 5.5 months later. Silver products can cause irreversible neurologic toxicity associated with poor outcome." Argyric Rats have been studied for years as to silver accumlation in the brain, silver excretion, etc. Concerning these lab rats, one would think that seizures would have been observed from high concentrations of silver given to these animals at all stages of life and a relationship between silver and seizures would have been established. My questions, What were the additional supplements the man was taking? If none invasive methods (MRI) were used did the MDs look for a Tumor? (I am assuming that neither injury, abcess, or tumors were found, considering the number of MDs on the case. Although Doctors have been known to overlook the obvious.)What other Rx medications was the senior on?Was the man taking pilocarpine for Glaucoma? This drug has been used to induce SE in laboratory rats? (Pilocarpine, or Pilocar usage is limited by its toxic side effects or adverse reactions. The drug has been suggested to test the effects of Germ warfare damage in animals. Did he use Aspartame? N-methyl-d-aspartate is known to induce SE in rats.Was a post mortem was performed? (In Calif. those under a doctor's care at time of death do not require a PM.)As emergency personal had been called, was CPR used. Generalized myoclonus (a type of SE) is commonly seen in comatose patients following CPR and is seen by some as an indication of catastrophic damage to the neocortex.Was the cause of death from SE or the drugs used to treat SE? "On February 20, 2008, a fourteen year old girl who had been seeing a neurologist, but had not been diagnosed with epilepsy had a convulsive seizure at her school that lasted less than five minutes, and an ambulance was called because nobody present was able to properly handle the situation. She was transported to the hospital, but after an abnormal amount of time she still had not awakened. After EEG electrodes were attached to her head, it was discovered that she was suffering from status epilepticus. Her doctor went through the routine normally used to stop an episode of status epilepticus, but the seizure
CS>Re: Iodine and other Allergies.
Dear Silver List, Iodine allergies are as well known as contact allergies to Silver. Reactions to shrimp, shellfish, kelp, etc. have been traced to iodine. Even when used as a disinfectant in a purified form, Iodine is very well know to cause allergic reaction. My sister almost died from an unknown iodine allergy during a medical test using radioactive iodine to check her kidneys, she literally passed out on the table. (Immune systems have also been know to attack thyroid hormones for that matter causing low thyroid.) Most people when allergic to wheat gluten, corn gluten, etc are allergic to the proteins (gluten specifically to the sugar binding proteins called lectins). Being allergic to protein is true with bee venom (foreign proteins), grass pollens, and the majority of milk and egg allergies. This isn't so astounding; all proteins, fats, oils, etc coming into the body are foreign bodies. How the digestive tract, Liver, and the immune system react to this foreign matter varies from individual to individual. I had one client's son who could only eat distilled water, white rice, and a "milk" made from lamb's meat. The child should have had beri-beri, scurvy, and a host of other deficiency disease, but did not. The child would go into anaphylactic shock from infancy (rules out the psychological factor), when other foods were introduced, even when in dilute or minute quantities, and unknown to the child. A favorite website on Iodine. http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller20.html I am not biased against iodine, but as allergies go it is a very common allergy. One can even be allergic to sunlight, it is rare disease called Solar Urticaria. Regards, Steve Foss
CS>Re: Garth Nicolson
Dear Silver List, et al. I mentioned the work of Dr. Garth Nicolson who is a PhD researcher who used to be with M D Anderson (University of Texas) as a cancer researcher, the researcher who discovered the infectious relationship of the disease, who took up the cause of Gulf War Veterans with GWI as well as investigated links between infection and chronic illnesses including ALS, MS, MD. I thought his research and his ideas (many counter to conventional medicine) would be worthy of investigation and exposure to the Silver List. Dr. Nicolson is not an MD, he cannot prescribe medicine, he cannot have patients. He is a researcher with an open and inquisitive mind. Anyone who chose to take the time to investigate his background and his hypotheses would see he makes a very good case. (Dr. Nicolson would be financially better renumerated if he had stayed with the University of Texas than venturing into Molecular Medicine (the gene expression of illness) at his own institute.) His point was that many auto immune diseases (which do exist by definition) and debilitating illnesses require longterm treatment to knock out underlying infection in many cases by Mycoplasmas. Whether one chooses to antibiotics, Colloidal Silver, Lomatium dissectum, Olive Leaf Extract, Grapefruit See Extract, etc, his point was that a longer period than days (as commonly used by Medical Doctors) to address these underlying infection is possibly indicated. Anyone who took the time to investigate his background would find he has locked horns with both the DoD and VA over Gulf War Illness and the stupidity of our government to give partial payment to disabled Veterans who do not fit the psychological requirements of the above governmental agencies for GWI and addressed that family members of GWI Veterans have also contracted this disease (something the US government denies). Dr Nicolson has also worked with CFS when it was still barely accepted by conventional medicine. As to comments about Dr Nicolson's Peer review articles: One of the criticisms of Alternative Medicine in General and Colloidal Silver in particular is that it is not evidence based. Closed minds used that argument to dismiss both by Conventional Medical without investigating further. Conventional Medicine or (Allopathic Medicine) does not have a monopoly on closed mindedness, it would seem. I have spent more than 30 years countering that charge (non evidence based) for Alternative Medicine (or as it was being called Orthomolecular Medicine, etc) and 20 years for Colloidal Silver. The best arguments to validate either have been from Scientific and Medical Journals, many of these articles find their way into the Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients. These studies are harder to dismiss than anecdotal evidence. The recent studies from U of Texas and U of Mexico, from Iran, Taiwan, Brigham Young U, etc have brought greater validity to Colloidal Silver. I read Paavo Airola's book, I used to sell it in as a clerk in a Health Store in the 1970's. Basically it was a vegetarian diet devoid of refined carbohydrates and salt. It wasn't any different from his other books. Nothing special, revolutionary, or brand new when first released. The owners of the store loved the book, besides its high price, his regimen of supplements if followed to the letter would cost over $100.00 per month (about $342.09 in 2007 dollars). The publisher loved the book, too as it was profitable, and never would release a Paper Back version for the masses version during Dr. Airola's lifetime. A mutual friend of Dr Airola and myself telephoned and informed me of his passing in 1983, which at the time was thought to be a heart attack. I called Best Ways Magazine to verify his death which they had not yet been alerted to and would not comment. Another of his friends asked if he had been shot by a jealous husband. Many among the Natural Health movement couldn't believe he had died so early at 64 years of age. The current story that he died of a stroke from "the result of complications from injuries sustained during his emigration from Finland to Canada after World War II," 37 years after the fact seem less plausible. Neither stroke or heart attack make a good case for his diet or programs, he did not even reach average life expectancy. Best Regards, Steve PS I am well aware of the morphology of the word "antibiotics."
Re:CS>Motor Neuron Disease
Hi Silver List: Dr. Garth Nicolson has done an extensive amount of research with Auto Immune disease, including those that affect the Neurons. Dr. Nicolson founded the Institute for Molecular Medicine in Huntington Beach, California. He has published over 500 studies in peer-reviewed journals and isolated the infective factor in Gulf War Disease. His protocol is long administration of antibiotics. Institute For Molecular Medicine 16371 Gothard St Huntington Beach, CA 92647 Some links: http://www.immed.org/illness/autoimmune_illness_research.html Excerpt: Infections have been found in a variety of Autoimmune Diseases, particularly in Rheumatic Diseases, such as Rheumatoid Arthritis, Scleroderma, and other rheumatic disorders. We and others have gathered substantial evidence that chronic bacterial and viral infections are commonly associated with Rheumatic Diseases, and many of these patients respond to antibiotic therapy. These patients are now recovering from their illnesses after decades of inadequate diagnoses and treatments. The recovery is slow; it usually takes up to or over a year to recover, but these patients had no alternative or effective treatments for their conditions, other than the alleviation of pain. Chronic infections are important in a variety of autoimmune and neurodegenerative diseases, such as MS, Lupus (SLE), among others, and neurodegenerative diseases, such as Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS). We previously proposed that many and perhaps a majority of these patients might be suffering from mycoplasmal and other infections that can cause, in part, their complex signs and symptoms. Systemic chronic infections (caused by bacteria such as Mycoplasma, Chlamydia, Borrelia, Brucella, etc. or viruses such as CMV, HHV6, EV or enterovirus, etc.) can invade virtually every human tissue and can compromise the immune system, permitting opportunistic infections by other bacteria, viruses, fungi and yeast. Mycoplasma, Chlamydia, Borrelia, Rickettsia and other pathogens can also directly damage and kill nerve cells in a process called apoptosis, resulting in nervous system degeneration. http://www.immed.org http://members.aol.com/rgm1/private/nicolson.htm http://www.gulfwarvets.com/testimony.htm
CS>Re: silver-digest Digest V2008 #510
Hi Wayne Thank you for your reply and insights. Yes, I believe a phone line powered can be safely made used as you addressed in your email. However, my post dealt with Do It Your Selfers that do not have your level of expertise. My point of reference was "Phone Generators" that were somewhat less sophisticated which I have "dissected" when I repaired them. The majority of them were "Beck Units" consisting of a resistor to drop voltage and a diode to keep the silver particle size from being all over the map. Some of the units did not even contain even these components. All of the users related the use of saline to accelerate the time/make the unit work; not one ever used only DW. A few were making CS into the hundreds (based on time) ppm. None of these units contain a bridge rectifier as you mentioned in your design. (Personally, I would add either a "voltage" clamp" (various ways to achieve this)or add two ICs to doubly regulate the power supply to keep the Voltage from increasing.) As I previously related most of the people who had me repair these Phone Generators were senior citizens, who were living in homes they purchased pre-owned. As I lived 30 years in a home built in late 1940's (with additions in the 1960's) and worked in Retail Stores built in the 1920's-1970's, the phone wiring has varied from the barely functional to the poorly designed. Some of the wiring was essential copper with varnished cloth as an insulation. This was also true for most of the electrical wiring (not the phone system) in a pharmacy I worked in housed in a building built before 1925. The phone system was fortunately from the 1960s. I did not use the term "office" as none of these phones systems at my work places were offices or were comparable to the systems found in even the smallest banks, real estate offices, doctor or legal offices. Two or three phone lines at best. No PBX to be scene or dedicated operator. Most of the businesses were small "mom and pop shops." The owners were more concerned with dollar driven economics than anticipating growth and future expandability. And they lived with these phone "systems" using the term loosely for 30 years or until the phone system died. I, too have worked with regulated voltage supplies, Lower Voltage/DC to about 800V, in this case in Tube Amplifiers all of with can kill you. I never wanted to work in High Voltage (1000V or higher). The technology has varied from WE and RCA designs to present innovations. For those of the readers without Wayne's Credentials or background. All safety precautions apply. If you do not know what these precautions are, either use batteries or be prepared to educate yourself. First thing to learn, always keep one hand in your pocket when around live circuit. Best Regards, Steve > You open a big can of very mean worms, . > > but I have killed them all long, long ago. > > I could explain virtually all of them from a safety > standpoint, and > other standpoints also. > > I have worked in telephone exchanges, designed and build > custom > regulated power supplies to power many things from their > huge power > supplies, ... with their sanction and permission. > Never worked for the phone company, but > as an independent technician or contractor. > > And I think, I may have build the first phone line powered > silver > generator, years before one or two similar showed up on the > > internet. Never read anything about it, or got any idea > from > anywhere, other than my imagination. > > I have also worked with hundreds of telephone leased > circuits too, > for many purposes. > That is another book. > > The voltage I am concerned with, is the ringing voltage. > That will > get your attention in grand style. > If I have to tell you about that, .. You have never > > experienced it. > > The phone line generator consists of > 1 full wave bridge > 1 LED > 1 Resistor > > About as simple as one can get, nothing automatic, all > manually controlled. > > Here are some pictures. > http://www.fugitt.com/files/phonegen/ > > As to a fire hazard, I can't help but appreciate your > concern. > > But if I could build 1,000,000 and give them all away, I > would bet > everything I own, no fire hazard would exist and not one > fire would result. > > And of course Electrical Safety is one of my main concerns. > I preach > it everywhere I go. > If anyone does not want to listen, they can get up and walk > away, I > will tell them, whether they want to hear it or not. > > In any house, I would wager I can find hazards and > electrical code > violations.. > > As to my certification, I am a Master Electrician and > Certified > Electrical Inspector, among many other things. > > It takes wattage to start a fire, it takes wattage to make > CS ( but > not much ) and it takes wattage to melt down hydrogen > generators. Many amateurs that do not understand a
Re: CS>Rule of Thumb, don't get it, etc, etc. comments
Dear Silver List Comments FYI On using the power from the phone line. There is a possibility that you could short out a home or work phone electrical system using this approach. This especially true with older buildings or older homes. If your generator consists of basic (or simple) components such as a couple of silver wires, alligator clips, and wire/connectors, or additional circuitry such as diode and a resistor to drop current ala Bob Beck, substituting the phone's power "rail" for batteries and using a saline or baking soda "accelerant," one could possibly overload your wires by drawing more more current through the lines than than were originally designed for, telephone use. I can say a former manufacturer of such devices received several complaints of this happening. The disgruntled home owners had to pay to have their houses to be rewired for telephone service, the phone companies claim responsibility for the telephone line from the exterior box to the telephone pole and not interior wiring. The possibility of a fire, although remote was an additional liability. (Yes there are ways electronically to prevent overloads to one' house wiring.) It doesn't happen with everyone who use this type of power method, but suffice to say, it is a possibility to contemplate. As to: ">-- you don't have to use part of the old batch to make a new one. No one said you did. > You can if you want to, as it apparently speeds things up. Is that hearsay evidence, speculation, or have you tried it ?" Hearsay: Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor The use of a "starter batch" of previously made colloidal silver to seed the distilled water has been referenced enough on online forums, in CS generator manufacturers instruction manuals, on websites, and in books on CS that one can say that it is a given. It isn't considered unverified information. There is a considerable body of literature that supports this use. I am all for replicating previous experiments, however one need not re-invent the wheel every time one goes to drive a car or use a bicycle or to tell another individual that a car or bike will get them from point a to point b "How do you define Quality, and what part of Quality, does the mixing of CS actually effect?" Quality: Degree or grade of excellence. When one is talking about something that is to be either ingested, or used for a particular purpose one has an expectation of some level of performance and purity. Quality is both subjective and comparative. In essence, a judgmental assessment between standard or idealized standards and pertaining to how a particular item or property is rated by an individual, group, government agency or committee. I define an A rating for a restaurant a reasonable expectation of not getting food poisoning as opposed to a Grade C rating. If quality is equated with Purity, then one would endeavor to acquire the best of the available ingredients or products made from those ingredients produced under local/cultural value systems for cleanliness (as rated from either laboratory analysis, government rating systems, personal inspection, industrial standards, etc) or available by trade in one's area, that one could reasonably afford (if price is an object). Some call the extremes of this approach "overkill." Using 99.99% Silver Wire, Laboratory and Technical Grade Distilled water, a power conditioner/limiter between my generator and the electrical outlet, etc this to one individual would be considered highest quality. No effort was spared. If one defines quality as producing the smallest particles possible, then using a CS to seed the water (or adding saline or soda solutions) would increase the transconductance of the water with the consequence of larger particles being produced. This could be perceived as lower quality as opposed to using distilled water alone with the consequent smaller particles produced. (Here the point of diminishing returns with CS as a seed, the amount of silver in suspension of the starter solution in to what volume of water and how long the CS batch takes to "brew". These variables and others would effect the final outcome, and could result in nearly as small particles in some instances, or not in other instances. Some Generators require a starter batch to produce CS and specify this as a normal part of operation in the instruction manual.) A CS generator that did not require such CS starter seed and produced smaller particles would be perceived or judged as being Superior or higher Quality to some. The common use of NaCl or Soda produces sufficiently large particles that one can sees the silver coming off one of the silver wire. These would be perceived as lower quality using a smallest particles possible as the standard. Any of the above may be of adequate utility to the given task, especially if used externally, or used in the laundry, and in many
CS>Aspartame and Silver
Hi Marshall, Interesting point, you made a request to the EPA for Aspartame use as an ant poison. (Rat Poison may have been more appropriate) The EPA might possibly have considered Aspartame as a Ant Poison had you submitted the requisite science (proving that it was an insecticide) and an environmental study showing that it wasn't a threat (it breaks down into to naturally occurring amino acids found in the environment.) Do you have any positive experience with Aspartame and killing Ants? Some observations: Aspartame (a laboratory union of Aspartic Acid and Phenylalanine) is an FDA approved food additive, an artificial sweetener. It is considered safe and effective. Silver is barely tolerated under the DSHEA as a mineral supplement and is neither considered safe and effective. Aspartame is metabolized into its component parts of Aspartic Acid, Phenylalanine after ingestion, and may generate methanol (eventually formaldehyde) by hydrolysis under certain conditions during storage. However,a glass of orange juice contains a magnitude greater quantity of methanol by comparison. Silver remains silver after leaving the body Neither Aspartic Acid nor Phenylalanine are considered threats to the environment. Silver is now considered a potential threat to the environment Monsanto owns Aspartame and could easily fight off any challenge, which is unlikely. The CS retailers, wholesales, manufacturers, etc do not have the resources. (Monsanto purchased G. D. Searle the company that invented Aspartame. G. D. Searle was the descendant company of the drug company founded by Dr A.B. Searle, MD who wrote a book, The Use of Colloids in Health and Disease in 1919, which includes using Colloidal Silver against a number of diseases, citing peer review medical journals.) It does not matter as to the form of Colloidal Silver (metal particle, ionic, silver protein, etc) as all forms have been listed in a 200+ product list submitted as part of the petition by CTA. Nano Silver Particles from EIS is quite possible (Sovereign Silver fits this description and is on the list). The petition concerns Nano Technology Silver. Aspartame does not have have a coalition of Environmental Groups etc petitioning the EPA to follow its own regulations on the subject of enforcement. However, Aspartame info (which is far from safe): After discovery in 1965, Aspartame had a long road to approval, interestingly enough because of health safety issues. Following safety testing, a debate as to whether these tests had indicated that aspartame may cause cancer in rats. The FDA, which at that time was showing some independence from big Pharma, unlike it is now, investigated Searle and published a scathing, 76 page report uncovering the discrepancies, inconsistencies, and evidence of fabrication of records in Searle's lab work. They also performed their own autopsies on the remaining corpses of the rats and found a large number of pathological conditions which were caused by the aspartame but not reported by Searle in their analysis of the results. This is known as the Bressler report. The Bressler Report compared all the available raw data and summary data against the manufacturer's FDA submission and found missing raw data, errors and discrepancies in available data, but later the FDA would chose to ignore Bressler's report. In essence the Bressler report dealt with Searle's shoddy job of covering up the evidence. Lab rats turned up with brain tumors, atrophied testicles, and other conditions and anomalies, and many of them began dying unexpectedly.This report was subsequently buried and only recently obtained under the FOIA. The U.S. FDA did not approve Aspartame's use as a food additive in the United States at that time. In 1980, the FDA convened a Public Board of Inquiry (PBOI) consisting of independent advisers to reexamine Aspartame's risks. The PBOI concluded that aspartame does not cause brain damage. The PBOI recommended against approving aspartame citing unanswered questions about cancer in laboratory rats. At that point in time, there was no requirement in place in FDA regulations to include brain research in the approval process, only cancer research. Searle's Chief Operating Officer, Donald Rumsfeld, reapplied for FDA certification immediately after U.S. President Ronald Reagan took office. FDA Commisioner, Jere E. Goyan, was removed from his post on the first day of Ronald Reagan's presidency (1981). Goyan had refused to approve the use of aspartame due to studies documenting increase of cancers in rats. President Ronald Reagan appointed Arthur Hull Hayes, MD as FDA Commissioner in April 1981. In the same year Hayes approved aspartame as a food additive against an FDA Public Board of Inquiry (PBOI) recommendation citing data from a Japanese study that had not been available to the members of the PBOI, Hayes approved aspartame for use in dry goods.(It is notable h
CS>Food Irradiation OT
Dear Silver List, I have posted some comments on food irradiation at silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com for those who are interested. Regards, Steve Foss -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Re Silver and the EPA
Dear Donna Gros, You wrote, "With the use of Silver being on the increase in the hospitals for use in so many areas and it also has been used with burn patients over the years in the burn centers." Silver's use in medicine is not in question, Silver Nitrate, Silver Chloride, and Silver Sulfadiazine (Silver Compounds) are approved drugs which have been in use for multiple decades, some silver compounds have been in use for nearly a century. Indeed Silver still has a place in medicine at least in the US. These drugs are regulated by the FDA. Where you aware that the European Economic Community banned the use of Silver by mouth for medicine prior to 2000? Or that during the year 2000 an EEC committee discussed the ban of Silver as a food coloring agent in medicine (pill colorants), even though the quantity of Silver contained was so minuscule and the cumulative effect to be unlikely to cause harm, just harmonize the by mouth medicine rule? Contact me personally if you want a PDF copy of the Report. The EEC ruling isn't very strictly enforced or has EEC's rulings have inadequate resources to police its decisions. For example over the counter medicine (OTC), a good friend of mine purchases OTC preparations of Colloidal Silver, Copper, and Zinc in France as well as Argentum metalicum, a homeopathic remedy made from Silver. "I feel that the use of silver will never be banned." Silver as used in electronics, jewelry, eating utensils will never be banned. These uses are not under question as these are not a Nano Technology issue. Nano Silver Particles in Clothes, in Bandages, in carbon water filters, and Colloidal Silver (including generators that produce Colloidal Silver)is under scrutiny. "My question to others after knowing this info is why would the hospitals with their use and also the help healing critical burn patients let silver be banned from use?" I never said that Silver compounds or FDA approved Silver drugs would be banned, nor has the EPA. I was referring to silver in colloidal silver preparations (and some other uses) as being banned if not registered and approved as pesticides. I presume that not all the subscribers to the Silver List have their own colloidal silver generators. On the other hand Hospitals have little say as to what is used or not used other than choosing from FDA approved Drugs, Medical Devices, etc. Use a non approved device and the administrators would have liability issue, face losing their insurance, or both. "Working in the emergency medical field for a good may years and also knowledge with my son-in-law in medical supplies with a very large hospital I do have this knowledge that the increase is on the rise with the use of CS and my feelings that the hospitals will fully support the use of silver even in the medical facilities." Silver use in medical facilities is on the increase and elsewhere in industry, but Colloidal Silver per se is not among the Silver used or approved for use in Medical Facilities. Silver impregnated dressings which are used for instance are among the items listed by the CTA for regulation as "pesticides." There is a stabilized Colloidal Silver that has EPA approval for use on Cruise Ships for killing a variety of pathogens including Avian Flu virus, Human Corona Virus (SARS), MRSA (Antibiotic resistant Staph)on hard surfaces. The Dept of Defense also has authorized the use of a Patented stabilized Colloidal silver (with Naptha and Formaldehyde, or Moth Balls and Embalming Fluid, both Carcinogens) for application against Biological Agents. Both fall under the pesticide descriptions. The 200 odd items that are list by the CTA regulations do include Colloidal Silver. "Door to door, I just really had a good laugh from that and know this will never ever happen." I had to laugh, too, because my post said the exact opposite. If one takes time to read it, you will find that I stated, "I do not think that your generators would be confiscated, nor will there be door to door searches." (I am reminded of the game of telephone we played in grammar school.) The EPA doesn't have the personnel, nor are they an arm of the Justice Dept. or any Law enforcement agency. The EPA does have a fine for knowingly selling an unapproved pesticide (or pesticide related device). $5,000 per incident. Tell me who would attempt to sell generators or CS under such a threat. I do not think that Silver in all its uses will be banned. I definitely believe that Bottle Colloidal Silver retail sales and Colloidal Silver Generator sales could be regulated out of existence in the US. We will find out in less than eight months. Best Regards, Steve Foss -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-of
Re: CS>EPA to Ban CS and CS generators as Pesticides.
s, but OT I have seen reports on the relationship of increased Melanoma incidences from regular Sunscreen use. Both Petitions want NanoTech to be halted until proven safe (harder to do than to prove unsafe) and to be licensed, regulated, etc. In closing, the petitions by sundry organization are trying to force the EPA to follow its own rules and regulate Nano Silver in which generators and CS products are included. It is not a done deal, but most likely a fait accompli. Warmest Regards, Steve Foss PS If having an opinion in light of the above is hyping, then I would rather be guilty than silent. PPS, I already have in my possession several CS generators, so in the EPA is not of my concern. I did think this topic would be of interest to the Silver List. PPPS, If anyone is going to write letters, petitions, etc, the time is now. The above Environmental groups, etc, have websites with petitions against. From: "Faith Gagne" To: silver-list@eskimo.com - Original Message - From: "Steven Foss" To: Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 2:32 AM Subject: CS>EPA to Ban CS and CS generators as Pesticides. Dear Silver List, Here are some links to websites on this issue. The CTA and FOE (Center for Technology Assessment and Friends of the Earth) are making a big issue over Nano Technology.) However, in the case of the CTA the Nano Technology is only Silver, and the hit list contains a number of bottle Colloidal Silvers including Sovereign Silver and Meso Silver among Silver Socks and Cosmetics, etc. I do not think that your generators would be confiscated, nor will there be door to door searches. However, if you have any plans of purchasing additional Colloidal Silver Generators after the EPA ruling you may be disappointed. The Colloidal Silver Generator may go the way of the Rife Machine. It is illegal to purchase a Rife Machine in California. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Mr. Foss: You are hyping this to the skies and you are way WAY out of line. First of all, this is far from being a done deal. (One of the Ph.D ' health scientists' writes in one of these articles that nano silver that is washed down the drain may get into the environment (as if people are not the environment) and kill fish and other animals. Huh? Evidently this "Ph.D" knows nothing about CS. I emailed that group and told them that a Ph.D after one's name does not stand for education (anymore). We should all start emailing these groups and telling them that they are poorly informed and to look elsewhere to entertain themselves. Secondly, Whoever heard of door to door searches in this country looking for a product that is no longer on the market? This is ridiculous and FABRICATED fear mongering. You get a big fat Zero Flunk! -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>EPA to Ban CS and CS generators as Pesticides.
Dear Silver List, Here are some links to websites on this issue. The CTA and FOE (Center for Technology Assessment and Friends of the Earth) are making a big issue over Nano Technology.) However, in the case of the CTA the Nano Technology is only Silver, and the hit list contains a number of bottle Colloidal Silvers including Sovereign Silver and Meso Silver among Silver Socks and Cosmetics, etc. I do not think that your generators would be confiscated, nor will there be door to door searches. However, if you have any plans of purchasing additional Colloidal Silver Generators after the EPA ruling you may be disappointed. The Colloidal Silver Generator may go the way of the Rife Machine. It is illegal to purchase a Rife Machine in California. For those who inquired about not finding information on the EPA website, the federal government generally does not list lawsuits against them. There are a number of pages at the EPA about Nano Silver and pesticides: http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/about/intheworks/nanotechnology.htm "Any product containing silver – in any form – that makes claims to control pests (kills bacteria or fungi, my addition) must first be evaluated and registered by EPA to ensure it meets the FIFRA human health and environmental safety standards before it can be distributed or sold." http://epa.gov/oppt/nano/ EPA is actively participating in the Working Party and contributes to all of the projects. Of particular relevance to the in-depth portion of the Agency's Nanoscale Materials Stewardship Program (NMSP) is the project on Safety Testing of a Representative Set of Manufactured Nanomaterials. The WPMN has identified a representative list of manufactured nanoscale materials for environmental health and safety testing, including: silver nanoparticles The WPMN has also published a list of testing endpoints in the following areas: nanomaterial information/identification physical-chemical properties material characterization environmental fate environmental toxicology mammalian toxicology material safety You will find in the links below that the CTA website www.nanoaction.org states that the petition (suit) against the EPA started in May 2008. The CTA action states Nano technology but their focus is nano silver which includes Colloidal Silver. The EPA has until March 2009 to make its ruling. Quick background The EPA using the The Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (or FIFRA) of 1947, ruled that Silver particles are a pesticide using the the definition of antimicrobials contain with that act. They have also ruled that Colloidal Silver Generators which produce Silver Ions and is listed for sale as producing a substance capable of killing microbes is also a "pesticide" in essence, "nano silver pesticide devices." The EPA ruled over they had jurisdiction to regulate Sammsung Washing Machine that incorporated a small Generator to add Silver Ions to kill bacteria in the wash water. More recently they had issues with a computer company and its claims of nano silver (I can't recall if it was silver on the keyboard.) Not to be outdone, the Friends of the Earth (FOE) is circulating petitions to the FDA for the removal nanotechnology in cosmetics, as well. The size range for nanotechnology is definitely in the Colloidal Range. http://nanotech.lawbc.com/2008/05/articles/legalregulatory-issues/ictaled-coalition-petitions-for-fifra-regulation-of-nanoscale-silver-products/ ICTA-Led Coalition Petitions for FIFRA Regulation of Nanoscale Silver Products Posted on May 7, 2008 by Lynn L. Bergeson On May 1, 2008, the International Center for Technology Assessment (ICTA), together with 13 other consumer, health, and environmental groups, filed a petition with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) demanding that EPA regulate as pesticides under the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA), and that it take additional actions under FIFRA and other environmental statutes concerning, consumer products containing nanoscale silver. ICTA also released an inventory (http://icta.org/nanoaction/doc/CTA%20Petition%20Appendix%20A_nano-silver_product_inventory.pdf) of the nano silver-containing consumer products referenced in the petition. The petition contends that nano silver is “the most commonly used nanomaterial in consumer products and the fastest growing sector of nanomaterial commercialization,” and that most companies “market their nano-silver products [by] putting emphasis on the nano-silver ingredient, touting its antimicrobial and antibacterial qualities . . . .” The petition states that “research has mounted to indicate that nano-silver materials pose serious risks to human health and the environment.” In support of the petition, the ICTA-led coalition pointed to, inter alia, EPA Region 9’s recent FIFRA enforcement settlement with a California company, IOGEAR, that had been making antimicrob
CS>EPA to Ban CS and CS generators as Pesticides.
Dear Silver List, I hope this post will be on topic. I received a newsletter that states that Colloidal Silver and CS Generators could be banned by March 2009 by the Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA is being sued by an environmental lobbyist organization. I have checked out several websites and this is indeed true, not a conspiracy theory. The lawsuit mentions about every brand of CS of the market. Of the reason for this, the EPA reclassified CS as a Pesticide using an obscure 50+year old law. Best Regards, Steve Foss
CS>Carole's mother and CS
Hi Carole (with an "E") I use one to two Fluid Ounces of CS 10 ppm, daily and have (knock on wood) been Flu free for 3 years. I would say that CS would be less of a risk than the amount of mercury in one Flu shot. One would have to consume 40 million ounces of Colloidal Silver at 10 ppm (using the Toxicological Registry's 1990 paper on Silver Safety) for a extrapolated fatal dosage of Silver. As you maybe aware of there is a ten year study of Flu shots in which a relationship between 5 consecutive yearly Flu shots and a significant increase in Alzheimer's disease. I am quoting someone else's blog on the subject, "Hugh Fudenberg, MD, an immunogeneticist and biologist with nearly 850 papers published in peer review journals, has reported that “if an individual had five consecutive flu shots between 1970 and 1980 (the years studied), his/her chances of getting Alzheimer's Disease is ten times higher than if they had zero, one, or two shots." I received my first and last Flu shot and was sick in the time it took to walk home from the Doctors (a matter of 5 minutes.) When I phoned the Doctor's office, the "gate-keeper" answering the phone curtly said, "it's a coincidence!" and hung up the phone before I could say another word or even request to speak to the Doctor. I could have a number of medical conditions from severe allergic reaction, etc. In the years between 1969 and 1975 (and I had a number of upper respiratory infections, ect) I only twice went to his office that I did not receive an injection (including exams to participate in sports and yearly physical exams). The in family joke was that his nursing staff could pick out anyone's tush from a lineup. The typical greeting when returning home from his office was, "Right or Left side," and they didn't mean arm! The statistics for Flu shots aren't that impressive. The 2007-2008 flu season was among the worst performance of the Flu vaccines. Based on adult deaths from flu and pneumonia, this season is the worst since 2003-2004 - another time when the vaccine did not include the exact flu strain responsible for most illnesses partly because the vaccine didn't work well against the viruses that made most people sick. The Flu Vaccines are best guesses as to which strains will be prevalent. Yes, there are risks. I had an older female client still suffering 20 years later from the Guillian Barre Syndrome after effects from the 1976 Swine Flu vaccinations. Ironically, more people died of the Flu Shot side effects (25) than the Flu that year. (There was no Swine Flu epidemic.) "The Cochrane Collaboration produced a series of articles in 2005 reviewing the published literature to determine the effectiveness of the flu shot. A total of 25 studies were reviewed that included more than 60,000 study participants. The Cochrane Group found that vaccination reduced risk of influenza by a meager 6% and reduced the number of days missed from work by less than one (0.16) day. Researchers concluded, “Universal immunization of healthy adults was not supported by the results of this review.” For the elderly population, the prime target group for flu shots, The Cochrane Group reviewed 64 studies and chided that, “The runaway 100% effectiveness that's touted by proponents [of the flu shot] was nowhere to be seen…What you see is that marketing rules the response to influenza, and scientific evidence comes fourth or fifth.” A new study, soon to be released in the prestigious medical journal, Vaccine, resulted in the same conclusion. The study was undertaken to determine whether the incidence of influenza had decreased in Ontario, Canada following the introduction of the Universal Influenza Immunization Campaign (UIIC) in 2000. All laboratory-confirmed influenza cases—diagnosed between January 1990 and August 2005—were analyzed. It was determined that, “…despite intensified vaccination distribution and the increased financial resources used to promote vaccination,” the incidence of influenza had not been decreased by the national flu shot campaign." I have used CS as an adjunct to my over all Health regimen for nearly 20 years. For me it is almost a sure thing. I can't say the same for my relatives who do receive Flu shots (its their choice). I have had respiratory challenges since childhood, so I am more susceptible than the average person. Other than using in excess or being allergic to Silver the chances are your Mom would have little reason for concern in using CS, but I am not a Doctor, this is only my opinion. However, I was involved in retail sale of CS for over 15 years, most of the products were 250ppm or higher CS. We never had a return for adverse reaction, argyria, etc. I would have see no problem with my 85 year old Mom using Colloidal Silver, other than my Mom's heart Doctor has forbidden her to take any supplements of any sort with the medicine she is on (Coumadin). He does recommend yearly Flu Shots.
CS>Silver and Salt
Hi Andy and Silver List Here is my third attempt at posting a reply I typed up on Saturday. Sometimes technology gets in the way of communication, especially when I am the one at fault. My many thanks to the patient people at eskimo.com: Yes, I am saying that salt is more conductive in solution than silver in hydrosol, twice as conductive. (Discussions of conductivity of Metallic Silver Wire, the lack of conductivity of Salt Crystals, or the conductivity Ionic Solutions of Molten Salt will have to wait) In this instance we are discussing Silver Ions in suspension and Ions of Sodium and Chlorine (Salt) in a liquid solution, in both cases water. With apologies to my physics and chemistry teachers (and my English composition teachers): A solution is a homogeneous mixture of the solute (in this case salt) and the solvent (in this case water). Salt (Sodium chloride aka table salt) dissolves into water to form a solution. As a result, most of the Sodium and the Chlorine ionize to form sodium ions (Na+) (positive charge ions, also called Anions) and and chlorine ions (Cl-) (negative charge ions, called cations), respectively. Both the Sodium and Chlorine are a discrete particles that conduct electricity, one with a positive charge imbalance and one with negative. Being homogeneous the ions are equally well mixed with the solvent (water) through out. (For all those who do not know otherwise, an Ion by definition is an atomic or molecular particle with an electrical charge.) A Hydrosol is a colloid (a mix of particles held in suspension) with water as the dispersing medium.Colloidal Silver is a Hydrosol. Colloidal Silver made by DC Generators (or chemically) primarily contain Silver Ions (Positive charge ions). Hydrsols being Colloids are not homogeneous although often have the appearance of a solution. Colloidal Silver lacks the negative charged ions found in the saline solution which would facilitate current flow. Silver in a hydrosol has half the potential that Salt has in a solution. Both pass electrical currents (the properties of an electrolyte) which can be measured in micro Siemens. Measuring a 10 ppm solution of salt, and a 10ppm Colloidal Silver hydrosol (if one was sure that it was 10ppm) could be measured as an experiment in µS, however, our initial discussion was using a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Meter to measure ppm. What's the connection between conductivity and TDS? Not very much other than an observered "relationship." TDS is more precisely measured in the laboratory by evaporating a measured sample gently to dryness then calculating how much solids are left.Conductivity is usually given as µS/cm which measures the ability of the sample to conduct an electric current. There is no exact relationship between conductivity as µS/cm and TDS as ppm. So why are both measurements used? It has been discovered experimentally that for particular types of water there is an approximate relationship. Most Manufacturers of TDS meters dissuade their use in measure Colloidal Systems Regards, Steve Foss PS. I did not consider Ion drift, a very good point I did not bring up.
CS>What multiplier do you use and how accurate do
Hi Silver List, "What multiplier do you use and how accurate do you think your measurements are???" I use 4 as the multiplier with TDS meters. Why? To date no major reputable commerical manufacturer produces a meter to specifically test for PPM levels for Colloidal Silver Suppensions. When I asked (Hannah), "Not enough sales to justify manufacture, to small a market." A TDS meter is designed to measure Total Dissolved Solids in soltion for applications such as hydroponic gardening, testing tap water and Reverse Osmosis water, industrial uses for contaminants. The typical TDS meter measures from 0 ppm to 999 PPM and was not designed to measure small measurements with an accuracy of less than 50% under 100 of PPM TDS meters measure transconductance (opposite of resistance) in micro Siemens and then use circuitry to convert this measurement into a PPM number (called a Conversion Factor). The Conversion Factor circuitry "translates" roughly 1 micro Siemen into 1ppm at Part Per Million readings of 100 PPM or higher at 90% accuracy. At PPM levels lower than 100 PPM the Conversion Factor translates 1 micro Siemen as 0.5 PPM, 50% of what is measured. TDS meters were designed to measure dissolved solids conductivity and are calibrated with Sodium Chloride (the "yellow" solution sold with these meters) as a rough "Guesstimate." Salt is used as an average approximation of the conductivity of the compounds and elements (and polutants) found in water. (Potassium Chloride is the world standard for calibration, but then TDS meters do not require scientific accuracy.) Soldium Chloride or table salt has twice the conductivity of Silver. Or Silver has 1/2 the conductivity of table Salt. So any measurement of Colloidal Silver will be half of that for dissolved solids. TDS meters round off their measurements downwards after conversion. 0 to 0.9 PPM will read as 000 PPM. Likewise, 1 to 1.9 PPM reads as 1 PPM, etc. Let's use some numbers. Let's say I have finished a batch of CS and send half of it to a lab that runs an Atomic Aborption Spectragraphy. The batch was made with Lab & Tech distilled water (0 PPM). The test measurement is 10 ppm I reach for my trusty TDS meter. The meter measures 90 % of the transconductace (calibrated to Sodium Chloride which has twice transconductance of CS) so 4.5 only is measured and the conversion factor has a 50% error (under 100ppm readings) so 2.25, rounded down becomes 2 PPM. I have a batch of 30 PPM CS. 15 X 90%= 13.5 microS measured multiplied by 50% Conversion=6.75 rounded down to 6 ppm If I have a reading of 3 PPM X 4= 12 PPM (3 times 2 (for Conversion Factor) times 2 (Salt factor) equals 12 PPM) This doesn't account for Commerical Distilled water which measures from 0 to 2 ppm (0 to 4 ppm if taking into account the Conversion Factor from circuitry). The DW will measure as 0 ppm at levels as high as 1.9 ppm (actual). That is why I use the number 4 as a multiplier when using a TDS meter to measure CS batches. How accurate do I think these measures are with TDS meters? Not very accurate, but better than nothing, or shelling out $400 USD everytime I make CS to get an accurate reading. Regards, Steve Foss If you are using Sodium Chloride or Sodium bicarbonate as an electrolyte this muddies the water (and the measurement) further. >Question for the group: What multiplier do you use and how accurate do you think your measurements are??? Just make sure the TDS meter probe is not contaminated when measuring, make sure there are no bubbles on the probe tips and do not try to measure moving water (keep TDS meter still in water). - Steve < .. Hi Steve. How does one use a TDS meter? Thanks. Faith G.
