Re: CS>Strength
- Original Message - From: James Osbourne, Holmes To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 12:51 AM Subject: RE: CS>Strength Does anyone know what heterotrophic means?: "heterotrophic activities of the microbial flora" James-Osbourne: Holmes Hi James, Hetero. Other,different Trophic. Of nutrition. (but it's used in terms of growth, action on something i.e the gonadotrophic hormones work or have action upon the gonads) As far as I'm aware virtually all bacteria are h/trophic and all animals. It's eating (and assimilation).
RE: CS>Strength
Aha! A bi plant.
James-Osbourne: Holmes
-Original Message-
From: cking...@nycap.rr.com [mailto:cking...@nycap.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 7:42 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Strength
On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:51:15 -0600, "James Osbourne, Holmes"
wrote:
>Does anyone know what heterotrophic means?:
>
>"heterotrophic activities of the microbial flora"
het·ero·tro·phic ('het-?-r?-`tro-fik)
adj.
Requiring complex organic compounds of nitrogen and carbon for metabolic
synthesis
Chuck
What's the definition of a will? (It's a dead giveaway).
--
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Re: CS>Strength
On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:51:15 -0600, "James Osbourne, Holmes"
wrote:
>Does anyone know what heterotrophic means?:
>
>"heterotrophic activities of the microbial flora"
het·ero·tro·phic ('het-?-r?-`tro-fik)
adj.
Requiring complex organic compounds of nitrogen and carbon for metabolic
synthesis
Chuck
What's the definition of a will? (It's a dead giveaway).
--
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Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org
To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
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List maintainer: Mike Devour
RE: CS>Strength
Note that the abstract in the first few cites mentions only the total silver. It is no doubt part of an ionic compound. It does not mention colloidal silver at all, and in the orchid example specifies silver nitrate. Most living things would wilt if they had most of their body sprayed with 9.5 mg/L silver nitrate. The soil organisms were probably killed where the soil was wetted. Does anyone know what heterotrophic means?: "heterotrophic activities of the microbial flora" James-Osbourne: Holmes -Original Message- From: ja...@tir.com [mailto:ja...@tir.com] Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 3:41 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS>CS Strength Johnny wrote: Catching up- Can anyone respond to the factual nature of the statement here- about silver ions killing organisms in the soil? Johnny Silverseed- author: "C/s...@ntibiotic Suprehero" Hi Johnny, The last sentance of this paragraph is what I was refering to. A link to this report by the Canadian Gov. (B.C.) follows. Keep in mind the toxic level noted is per kilogram of soil. http://wlapwww.gov.bc.ca/wat/wq/BCguidelines/silver/bcsilver-36.htm#TopOfPag e Irrigation with 9.8 mg silver/L is toxic to maize and 4.9 mg/L is toxic to lupines (Cooper and Jolly 1970). There was no significant effect on wheat or maize at 460 mg/kg silver as AgI in sandy or loam soil but 640 mg/kg silver as AgI of soil inhibited germination of Engelmann spruce seeds (Klein 1978). Spraying a AgNO3 solution at 9.5 mg silver/L caused damage to Cattleya orchids (Beyer 1976) and a decrease was noted in the growth rate of bean plants grown in a nutrient solution containing 9 µg silver as AgNO3 /L. Silver levels in the sediments or soils which exceed 25 to 50 mg silver/kg may have significant effects on the heterotrophic activities of the microbial flora (Sokoland Klein1975).
Re: CS Strength
I would say you have made between 15 and 20 ppm Steve. I base this prediction upon your description (although you don't state the volume of water), and...experience. Ivan. - Original Message - From: "Steve Young" To: "Silver List" Sent: Sunday, 3 September 2000 16:22 Subject: CS Strength To the list CS experts: I would like your opinion on the approximate PPM for the following CS: Started with 1.1 uS distilled water as measured by Hanna PWT (model HI 98308) Constant current of 1.0 Ma. DC throughout the entire run. Starting voltage to the electrodes = 150 VDC Ending voltage after 3 1/3 hours = 8 VDC. This would be a resistance of 8K. Ending uS of 19.1 after sitting for a day so agglomeration effects would settle down Constant stirring at 30 RPM Faint TE which can only be seen in a dark room, so I believe the particles are quite small Electrodes are both #12 silver wire spaced 1.75 inch and immersed 3.75 inches So, ladies and gentlemen, about what strength CS have I made? What is the basis for your estimate? Thanks for your help, --Steve Young -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS Strength
I don't know your ppm Steve, but it sounds good enough to drink! Seriously, it sounds extremely useful. If you really need ppm, arrange to send a sample to Bob Berger. Chuck I'm not loafing--I work so fast I'm always finished ! On Sat, 2 Sep 2000 22:22:10 -0600, "Steve Young" wrote: >So, ladies and gentlemen, about what strength CS have I made? What is the >basis for your estimate? > >Thanks for your help, > >--Steve Young -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS Strength
Hi Steve; Some wild a-s guess would be about 20 ppm, but for $7.50 and a two ounce sample of your CS and I will tell you exactly what it is with out a bunch of bull. One's opinion is not worth the paper its not written on ! "Ole Bob" -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS Strength
Hi Steve, First off; I am NOT an expert. However I do have some experience. That said. I suspect you have 19 PPM or thereabouts. Well, within 10-15% anyway. As you know we sell the PWT and advertise it as being within 10% when reading CS made with our generator. Since your results were from a constant current source and the current delivered was about the same as our generators produce, it seems to me the results should correlate. I'm not sure about the starting voltage but current limiting is still the same as what we do. We start out with about 38-40 volts but as I see it your generator setup would just get up to speed much quicker. I assume the voltage dropped very rapidly soon after you started the process and came down to the 25-30 volt range quickly. And then slowly dropped to the end point of 8 volts. The one difference I do see is that we use 1/4" wide electrodes and you used #12 wire. Not sure if that would make much difference, but it could. We use wetted depth of about 4+ inches. Our voltage at the end of what is read as a 20 PPM batch is about 7 volts across the electrodes so it seems close enough to me to be comparable. I'm sure there are some who will say I'm wrong but we had samples analyzed using the atomic absorption method and the result was that our PWT readings correlated to those test readings within about 10%. That's why I stand by the PWT as being the best PPM indicator for the average person. It is very affordable and repeatable. And after all we're only talking about a very small quantity of silver in a liter of water. For those who don't know, the definition of PPM is 1 milligram of silver in 1 liter of water. A small quantity indeed! The weak Tyndall is exactly what we get using the current value you use. We attribute it to low constant current and the stirring of the water during production. Our units also stir at 30 RPM. The only thing you didn't mention was the quantity of water used. Our generator is calibrated for a pint but will also make a quart and end up with about the same PPM and Tyndall. We sometimes make a half gallon at time but it takes considerably longer to get up to speed with the voltage we use. I suspect your higher voltage unit would get the process going much quicker in a larger volume of water. I would trust the PWT readings. However there is a caveat. The Hanna information says take about 50% of the reading. They may be correct for undigested silver but we had our AA tests run using digested and undigested samples. Digested samples came out about the same as AA readings and undigested samples came out reading about 55% of the AA tests when tested with the PWT. So, Hanna and we are both right. I think you have a very good end product as attested to by the very weak Tyndall. For those who are new to the list, weak Tyndall is good because it means there are many more individual silver particles in the water. And the more particles there are, the better the chances of CS coming in contact with bacteria and virus. After all it is a numbers game. And of course particle size is important because smaller IS better in this case. I'd keep on doing exactly what you're doing Steve. Trem www.silvergen.com Constant Current Colloid Generators At 10:22 PM 9/2/00 -0600, you wrote: To the list CS experts: I would like your opinion on the approximate PPM for the following CS: Started with 1.1 uS distilled water as measured by Hanna PWT (model HI 98308) Constant current of 1.0 Ma. DC throughout the entire run. Starting voltage to the electrodes = 150 VDC Ending voltage after 3 1/3 hours = 8 VDC. This would be a resistance of 8K. Ending uS of 19.1 after sitting for a day so agglomeration effects would settle down Constant stirring at 30 RPM Faint TE which can only be seen in a dark room, so I believe the particles are quite small Electrodes are both #12 silver wire spaced 1.75 inch and immersed 3.75 inches So, ladies and gentlemen, about what strength CS have I made? What is the basis for your estimate? Thanks for your help, --Steve Young
Re: cs strength
In a message dated 00-04-08 10:56:06 EDT, you write: << ## Well, the schools are still teaching people that we live in a universe of solid objects when it's pretty much proven that they are only 'virtually solid in appearance' If this were taught from an early age, it might result in more people using their minds as hammers to shape the world, or at least positiveley empowered personal experential realities, rather than the anvils making up our present society of helpless victims. KD'C >> KDC: Physical chemistry is but a subset of meta-physics. BUT as a subset it still follows natural laws just as Newtonian Physics follows its natural laws which are a subset of Relativity. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: cs strength
## Well, the schools are still teaching people that we live in a universe of solid objects when it's pretty much proven that they are only 'virtually solid in appearance' If this were taught from an early age, it might result in more people using their minds as hammers to shape the world, or at least positiveley empowered personal experential realities, rather than the anvils making up our present society of helpless victims. KD'C At 04:51 PM 4/7/00 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 00-04-07 16:47:23 EDT, you write: > ><< I don't believe it is possible to have a ph of other than 7 without an >ionic > attribute is it? > >> >When I went to school electrical neutrality was definitely the in thing. >Maybe it has now been dropped from the curriculum along with so many other >things. > >Roger > > >-- >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com >Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html >List maintainer: Mike Devour > > >
RE: cs strength>qualities of precipitated Ag sol
## That's my guess too. Due to the defensive/secretive attitude I encountered, asking would be a waste of time. They hedged most of the simple questions and ignored all the others. Observing the general conditions and equipment available, I doubt seriously that they have any idea and couldn't answer even if they weren't so defensive. ..and they didn't seem the type to honestly say "I don't know". No whys and hows on the yellow cash cow. ..and we ain't sellin it to you anyhow. so you have no right to know, now go. I went. KD'C At 03:09 PM 4/7/00 -0600, you wrote: >Wild ass guess, but the particle size is probably huge in the multi-micron >range, and the Zeta is probably Zero. > >Also, I venture that there are a lot of contaminants left over as unreacted >reagents and undesirable products of the reaction which produced the >silver. > >Write them and ask: > >1. What is the range and distribution of your particle size? >2. Can you provide me with an analysis of the sol showing all elements >present over 1 PPM. >3. What is the shelf life of the sol? > >James Osbourne Holmes >a...@trail.com > > >-Original Message- >From: coyote [SMTP:coy...@alltel.net] >Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 6:52 AM >To:silver-list@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: cs strength > > ##Slightly off subject but may be enlightening > > > There is a company near me that manufactures CS by the 55 gallon drum, >sold bulk to repackagers. I visited and asked questions. They do not use >and electrical process but something called a "Precipitate method". The >person i spoke to was very closed mouth about it. The CS was a very deep >bright yellow, almost iridescent [ viewed through a half inch clear >plastic tube] and was stored in what looked like a blue plastic pickle >barrel like the local Mount Olive pickle company uses. > > I recently sold a generator to a woman who attempted to use [deep bright >yellow] commercial CS in her eyes. She said it irritated them badly whereas >the CS from the generator did not. She washed her shower curtains with the >commercial stuff. > Does anyone know anything about the 'precipitate method' of making CS? >This local company sends out drum after drum of this. I wonder how much of >what's available in stores is this very same product repackaged. > KD'C > >At 06:56 AM 4/6/00 -0700, you wrote: >>Hello, >> >>I am new to CS and this list. I got a prett serious >>burn, and a book I have suggested applying CS >>topically. I bought some at the local health food >>store (not knowing anything about it), and what I got >>is 1100 ppm (manufactured by Innovative Natural >>Products). I tried applying this to the area, and it >>seemed to worsen, so I stopped. I have continued to >>take a small amount internally. >> >>since beginning my research into CS on the web, I see >>that most of you use a much weaker solution. Is 1100 >>way too strong? (it is a dark yellow color). Is this >>safe to apply topically to my burn? >>any advice would be much appreciated! >> >>__ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >>http://im.yahoo.com >> >> >>-- >>The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. >> >>To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: >>silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com >>with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. >> >>To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com >>Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html >>List maintainer: Mike Devour >> >> >> > > >
Re: cs strength
## Hooo Boy! I'll be driving by the place and get the full company name [something like "Specialty Materials Handling Inc"] , search down thier website [they said they have one] and post it for all to see. It's not a 'big' company...just a steel building out in the sticks on Pea Ridge Road near Moncure NC. But they do make an awful lot [pun intended] of the stuff and I just bet it goes into a great number of those expensive little bottles sold in stores, rebranded without any indication as to who really made it or how. I'd also bet that's what the person mentioned put in her eyes that irritated themeffectivly, draino. [Should have done a great job on her shower curtains though] I will also be posting a warning on my website. Is it OK to reprint your synapsis on the precipitate method? Sometimes being an inquisitive pain in the rump pays off for everyone. K'DC/ k...@czen At 11:52 AM 4/7/00 -0400, you wrote: >coyote wrote: > >> ##Slightly off subject but may be enlightening >> >> There is a company near me that manufactures CS by the 55 gallon drum, >> sold bulk to repackagers. I visited and asked questions. They do not use >> and electrical process but something called a "Precipitate method". The >> person i spoke to was very closed mouth about it. The CS was a very deep >> bright yellow, almost iridescent [ viewed through a half inch clear >> plastic tube] and was stored in what looked like a blue plastic pickle >> barrel like the local Mount Olive pickle company uses. >> > >The precipitate method is what was used in the 30's. It is the least expensive >method, and produces an inferior, possibly toxic, product. > >Here is how it works. You start with a salt of silver, most likely silver >nitrate, then add a base to it, such as sodium hydroxide (aka lye, draino). >The two react producing silver particles and sodium nitrate. > >There are several problems with this. First you now have sodium nitrate in the >sol, which ends up in the final material, or other processes must be used to >remove it. Total remove is highly unlikely. Also silver nitrate can still >remain, and this can cause argyria and is considered a poison. If too much lye >is added, then there will be traces of what is basically drano in there as >well. > >Added to this is that the particles are not charged up positively like in the >electrolytic process, then they will quickly aggregate and produce larger >particles, plus without the charge, they lose a lot of effectiveness. > >Thus you end up with a product which has reduced effectiveness, reduced >stability, increased toxicity, and the possibility of it causing argyria. But >it is very cheap to make this way. > >Typical of big companies, damn the product, make it as cheap as possible. No >wonder they are closed mouthed about it. > >Marshall > > > >> >> I recently sold a generator to a woman who attempted to use [deep bright >> yellow] commercial CS in her eyes. She said it irritated them badly whereas >> the CS from the generator did not. She washed her shower curtains with the >> commercial stuff. >> Does anyone know anything about the 'precipitate method' of making CS? >> This local company sends out drum after drum of this. I wonder how much of >> what's available in stores is this very same product repackaged. >> KD'C >> >> At 06:56 AM 4/6/00 -0700, you wrote: >> >Hello, >> > >> >I am new to CS and this list. I got a prett serious >> >burn, and a book I have suggested applying CS >> >topically. I bought some at the local health food >> >store (not knowing anything about it), and what I got >> >is 1100 ppm (manufactured by Innovative Natural >> >Products). I tried applying this to the area, and it >> >seemed to worsen, so I stopped. I have continued to >> >take a small amount internally. >> > >> >since beginning my research into CS on the web, I see >> >that most of you use a much weaker solution. Is 1100 >> >way too strong? (it is a dark yellow color). Is this >> >safe to apply topically to my burn? >> >any advice would be much appreciated! >> > >> >__ >> >Do You Yahoo!? >> >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >> >http://im.yahoo.com >> > >> > >> >-- >> >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. >> > >> >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: >> >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com >> >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. >> > >> >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com >> >Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html >> >List maintainer: Mike Devour >> > >> > >> > > > >
Re: cs strength
## Still not so hot, ey? As much as I dislike regulation, it seems that a proper element in accurate labeling should include the process type. For instance: electro-colloidal and precipitate colloidal. KD'C At 04:33 PM 4/7/00 -0400, you wrote: >Marshall, and "coyote", >there is a product on the market - also produced chemically - one of the >finest colloids we've seen. But it has a pH of 3.1, effectively a mild >acid. However it is free of any ionic attribute, a pure colloid! I >suggested that we bring it up to pH normal and have a look it then >formed crystal structures up to several hundred nm. Cannot even begin to >fathom the reaction in vivo, but certainly are not going to find out >Stephen >- Original Message - >From: Marshall Dudley >To: >Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 11:52 AM >Subject: Re: cs strength > > >> coyote wrote: >> >> > ##Slightly off subject but may be enlightening >> > >> > There is a company near me that manufactures CS by the 55 gallon drum, >> > sold bulk to repackagers. I visited and asked questions. They do not >use >> > and electrical process but something called a "Precipitate method". The >> > person i spoke to was very closed mouth about it. The CS was a very >deep >> > bright yellow, almost iridescent [ viewed through a half inch clear >> > plastic tube] and was stored in what looked like a blue plastic pickle >> > barrel like the local Mount Olive pickle company uses. >> > >> >> The precipitate method is what was used in the 30's. It is the least >expensive >> method, and produces an inferior, possibly toxic, product. >> >> Here is how it works. You start with a salt of silver, most likely silver >> nitrate, then add a base to it, such as sodium hydroxide (aka lye, >draino). >> The two react producing silver particles and sodium nitrate. >> >> There are several problems with this. First you now have sodium nitrate >in the >> sol, which ends up in the final material, or other processes must be used >to >> remove it. Total remove is highly unlikely. Also silver nitrate can >still >> remain, and this can cause argyria and is considered a poison. If too >much lye >> is added, then there will be traces of what is basically drano in there as >> well. >> >> Added to this is that the particles are not charged up positively like in >the >> electrolytic process, then they will quickly aggregate and produce larger >> particles, plus without the charge, they lose a lot of effectiveness. >> >> Thus you end up with a product which has reduced effectiveness, reduced >> stability, increased toxicity, and the possibility of it causing argyria. >But >> it is very cheap to make this way. >> >> Typical of big companies, damn the product, make it as cheap as possible. >No >> wonder they are closed mouthed about it. >> >> Marshall >> >> >> >> > >> > I recently sold a generator to a woman who attempted to use [deep >bright >> > yellow] commercial CS in her eyes. She said it irritated them badly >whereas >> > the CS from the generator did not. She washed her shower curtains with >the >> > commercial stuff. >> > Does anyone know anything about the 'precipitate method' of making CS? >> > This local company sends out drum after drum of this. I wonder how much >of >> > what's available in stores is this very same product repackaged. >> > KD'C >> > >> > At 06:56 AM 4/6/00 -0700, you wrote: >> > >Hello, >> > > >> > >I am new to CS and this list. I got a prett serious >> > >burn, and a book I have suggested applying CS >> > >topically. I bought some at the local health food >> > >store (not knowing anything about it), and what I got >> > >is 1100 ppm (manufactured by Innovative Natural >> > >Products). I tried applying this to the area, and it >> > >seemed to worsen, so I stopped. I have continued to >> > >take a small amount internally. >> > > >> > >since beginning my research into CS on the web, I see >> > >that most of you use a much weaker solution. Is 1100 >> > >way too strong? (it is a dark yellow color). Is this >> > >safe to apply topically to my burn? >> > >any advice would be much appreciated! >> > > >> > >__ >> > >Do You Yahoo!? >> > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >> > >http://im.yahoo.com >> > > >> > > >> > >-- >> > >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal >silver. >> > > >> > >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: >> > >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com >> > >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. >> > > >> > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com >> > >Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html >> > >List maintainer: Mike Devour >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >
Re: cs strength
James, I am sure the charged Ps are responsible for the catalytic effect in the therapeutic process. And it is clear that we are dealing not with single atoms but clusters that form visible Ps. I doubt that atoms are even visible matter! But I challenge anyone to disprove the hypothesis. There must be some mathematical proof, somewhere, someone must understand it. Meanwhile we have achieved reduction that I didn't know was possible. One can actually see the interaction of the Ps and it is apparent that there is an affinity relationship that correlates to size at these diminished levels (I mean Ps from sveral Angstroms to several nm). Stephen -Original Message- From: James Osbourne, Holmes To: 'silver-list@eskimo.com' Date: Friday, April 07, 2000 8:28 PM Subject: RE: cs strength >Hi Stephen, > >All charged particles are by definition ions. At issue, is whether we are >discussing single dissolved atom with its valence available to react with >other ions, or a small clump of atoms which is charged, but is not readily >available to react with other ions. The antimicrobal and healing >properties of CS as well as its long-range stability are believed to be at >least partly due to the presence of a positive charge on a clump of Ag >atoms, which are suspended by Brownian movement in the water. They have >less tendency to strike one another in ways which will stick because each >has a positive charge of at least Plus One. As concentration increases, > the particles are of necessity closer together, increasing the chance of a >sticky collision. > >Single "dissolved" atoms are much more available to react with other >elements and compounds, and may be more prone to producing cosmetic >conditions or toxic products. > >The foregoing is totally without available documentation, and represents >only my present attempt to understand and widely open to correction or >elaboration. > >James Osbourne Holmes >a...@trail.com > > >-Original Message- >From: Stephen Quinto [SMTP:squi...@mindspring.com] >Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 2:34 PM >To: silver-list@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: cs strength > >Marshall, and "coyote", >there is a product on the market - also produced chemically - one of the >finest colloids we've seen. But it has a pH of 3.1, effectively a mild >acid. However it is free of any ionic attribute, a pure colloid! I >suggested that we bring it up to pH normal and have a look it then >formed crystal structures up to several hundred nm. Cannot even begin to >fathom the reaction in vivo, but certainly are not going to find out >Stephen >- Original Message - >From: Marshall Dudley >To: >Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 11:52 AM >Subject: Re: cs strength > > >> coyote wrote: >> >> > ##Slightly off subject but may be enlightening >> > >> > There is a company near me that manufactures CS by the 55 gallon >drum, >> > sold bulk to repackagers. I visited and asked questions. They do not >use >> > and electrical process but something called a "Precipitate method". > The >> > person i spoke to was very closed mouth about it. The CS was a very >deep >> > bright yellow, almost iridescent [ viewed through a half inch clear >> > plastic tube] and was stored in what looked like a blue plastic pickle >> > barrel like the local Mount Olive pickle company uses. >> > >> >> The precipitate method is what was used in the 30's. It is the least >expensive >> method, and produces an inferior, possibly toxic, product. >> >> Here is how it works. You start with a salt of silver, most likely >silver >> nitrate, then add a base to it, such as sodium hydroxide (aka lye, >draino). >> The two react producing silver particles and sodium nitrate. >> >> There are several problems with this. First you now have sodium nitrate >in the >> sol, which ends up in the final material, or other processes must be used >to >> remove it. Total remove is highly unlikely. Also silver nitrate can >still >> remain, and this can cause argyria and is considered a poison. If too >much lye >> is added, then there will be traces of what is basically drano in there >as >> well. >> >> Added to this is that the particles are not charged up positively like in >the >> electrolytic process, then they will quickly aggregate and produce larger >> particles, plus without the charge, they lose a lot of effectiveness. >> >> Thus you end up with a product which has reduced effectiveness, reduced >> stability, increased toxicity, and the possibility of
RE: cs strength
Hi Stephen, All charged particles are by definition ions. At issue, is whether we are discussing single dissolved atom with its valence available to react with other ions, or a small clump of atoms which is charged, but is not readily available to react with other ions. The antimicrobal and healing properties of CS as well as its long-range stability are believed to be at least partly due to the presence of a positive charge on a clump of Ag atoms, which are suspended by Brownian movement in the water. They have less tendency to strike one another in ways which will stick because each has a positive charge of at least Plus One. As concentration increases, the particles are of necessity closer together, increasing the chance of a sticky collision. Single "dissolved" atoms are much more available to react with other elements and compounds, and may be more prone to producing cosmetic conditions or toxic products. The foregoing is totally without available documentation, and represents only my present attempt to understand and widely open to correction or elaboration. James Osbourne Holmes a...@trail.com -Original Message- From: Stephen Quinto [SMTP:squi...@mindspring.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 2:34 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: cs strength Marshall, and "coyote", there is a product on the market - also produced chemically - one of the finest colloids we've seen. But it has a pH of 3.1, effectively a mild acid. However it is free of any ionic attribute, a pure colloid! I suggested that we bring it up to pH normal and have a look it then formed crystal structures up to several hundred nm. Cannot even begin to fathom the reaction in vivo, but certainly are not going to find out Stephen - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley To: Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 11:52 AM Subject: Re: cs strength > coyote wrote: > > > ##Slightly off subject but may be enlightening > > > > There is a company near me that manufactures CS by the 55 gallon drum, > > sold bulk to repackagers. I visited and asked questions. They do not use > > and electrical process but something called a "Precipitate method". The > > person i spoke to was very closed mouth about it. The CS was a very deep > > bright yellow, almost iridescent [ viewed through a half inch clear > > plastic tube] and was stored in what looked like a blue plastic pickle > > barrel like the local Mount Olive pickle company uses. > > > > The precipitate method is what was used in the 30's. It is the least expensive > method, and produces an inferior, possibly toxic, product. > > Here is how it works. You start with a salt of silver, most likely silver > nitrate, then add a base to it, such as sodium hydroxide (aka lye, draino). > The two react producing silver particles and sodium nitrate. > > There are several problems with this. First you now have sodium nitrate in the > sol, which ends up in the final material, or other processes must be used to > remove it. Total remove is highly unlikely. Also silver nitrate can still > remain, and this can cause argyria and is considered a poison. If too much lye > is added, then there will be traces of what is basically drano in there as > well. > > Added to this is that the particles are not charged up positively like in the > electrolytic process, then they will quickly aggregate and produce larger > particles, plus without the charge, they lose a lot of effectiveness. > > Thus you end up with a product which has reduced effectiveness, reduced > stability, increased toxicity, and the possibility of it causing argyria. But > it is very cheap to make this way. > > Typical of big companies, damn the product, make it as cheap as possible. No > wonder they are closed mouthed about it. > > Marshall > > > > > > > I recently sold a generator to a woman who attempted to use [deep bright > > yellow] commercial CS in her eyes. She said it irritated them badly whereas > > the CS from the generator did not. She washed her shower curtains with the > > commercial stuff. > > Does anyone know anything about the 'precipitate method' of making CS? > > This local company sends out drum after drum of this. I wonder how much of > > what's available in stores is this very same product repackaged. > > KD'C > > > > At 06:56 AM 4/6/00 -0700, you wrote: > > >Hello, > > > > > >I am new to CS and this list. I got a prett serious > > >burn, and a book I have suggested applying CS > > >topically. I bought some at the local health food > > >store (not knowing anything about it), and what I got > > >
RE: cs strength>qualities of precipitated Ag sol
Wild ass guess, but the particle size is probably huge in the multi-micron range, and the Zeta is probably Zero. Also, I venture that there are a lot of contaminants left over as unreacted reagents and undesirable products of the reaction which produced the silver. Write them and ask: 1. What is the range and distribution of your particle size? 2. Can you provide me with an analysis of the sol showing all elements present over 1 PPM. 3. What is the shelf life of the sol? James Osbourne Holmes a...@trail.com -Original Message- From: coyote [SMTP:coy...@alltel.net] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 6:52 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject:Re: cs strength ##Slightly off subject but may be enlightening There is a company near me that manufactures CS by the 55 gallon drum, sold bulk to repackagers. I visited and asked questions. They do not use and electrical process but something called a "Precipitate method". The person i spoke to was very closed mouth about it. The CS was a very deep bright yellow, almost iridescent [ viewed through a half inch clear plastic tube] and was stored in what looked like a blue plastic pickle barrel like the local Mount Olive pickle company uses. I recently sold a generator to a woman who attempted to use [deep bright yellow] commercial CS in her eyes. She said it irritated them badly whereas the CS from the generator did not. She washed her shower curtains with the commercial stuff. Does anyone know anything about the 'precipitate method' of making CS? This local company sends out drum after drum of this. I wonder how much of what's available in stores is this very same product repackaged. KD'C At 06:56 AM 4/6/00 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, > >I am new to CS and this list. I got a prett serious >burn, and a book I have suggested applying CS >topically. I bought some at the local health food >store (not knowing anything about it), and what I got >is 1100 ppm (manufactured by Innovative Natural >Products). I tried applying this to the area, and it >seemed to worsen, so I stopped. I have continued to >take a small amount internally. > >since beginning my research into CS on the web, I see >that most of you use a much weaker solution. Is 1100 >way too strong? (it is a dark yellow color). Is this >safe to apply topically to my burn? >any advice would be much appreciated! > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > > >-- >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com >Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html >List maintainer: Mike Devour > > >
Re: cs strength
In a message dated 00-04-07 16:47:23 EDT, you write: << I don't believe it is possible to have a ph of other than 7 without an ionic attribute is it? >> When I went to school electrical neutrality was definitely the in thing. Maybe it has now been dropped from the curriculum along with so many other things. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: cs strength
Gee, that sounds like they produced silver nitrate with nitric acid, and the product has both in it now. I don't believe it is possible to have a ph of other than 7 without an ionic attribute is it? Marshall Stephen Quinto wrote: > Marshall, and "coyote", > there is a product on the market - also produced chemically - one of the > finest colloids we've seen. But it has a pH of 3.1, effectively a mild > acid. However it is free of any ionic attribute, a pure colloid! I > suggested that we bring it up to pH normal and have a look it then > formed crystal structures up to several hundred nm. Cannot even begin to > fathom the reaction in vivo, but certainly are not going to find out > Stephen > - Original Message - > From: Marshall Dudley > To: > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 11:52 AM > Subject: Re: cs strength > > > coyote wrote: > > > > > ##Slightly off subject but may be enlightening > > > > > > There is a company near me that manufactures CS by the 55 gallon drum, > > > sold bulk to repackagers. I visited and asked questions. They do not > use > > > and electrical process but something called a "Precipitate method". The > > > person i spoke to was very closed mouth about it. The CS was a very > deep > > > bright yellow, almost iridescent [ viewed through a half inch clear > > > plastic tube] and was stored in what looked like a blue plastic pickle > > > barrel like the local Mount Olive pickle company uses. > > > > > > > The precipitate method is what was used in the 30's. It is the least > expensive > > method, and produces an inferior, possibly toxic, product. > > > > Here is how it works. You start with a salt of silver, most likely silver > > nitrate, then add a base to it, such as sodium hydroxide (aka lye, > draino). > > The two react producing silver particles and sodium nitrate. > > > > There are several problems with this. First you now have sodium nitrate > in the > > sol, which ends up in the final material, or other processes must be used > to > > remove it. Total remove is highly unlikely. Also silver nitrate can > still > > remain, and this can cause argyria and is considered a poison. If too > much lye > > is added, then there will be traces of what is basically drano in there as > > well. > > > > Added to this is that the particles are not charged up positively like in > the > > electrolytic process, then they will quickly aggregate and produce larger > > particles, plus without the charge, they lose a lot of effectiveness. > > > > Thus you end up with a product which has reduced effectiveness, reduced > > stability, increased toxicity, and the possibility of it causing argyria. > But > > it is very cheap to make this way. > > > > Typical of big companies, damn the product, make it as cheap as possible. > No > > wonder they are closed mouthed about it. > > > > Marshall > > > > > > > > > > > > I recently sold a generator to a woman who attempted to use [deep > bright > > > yellow] commercial CS in her eyes. She said it irritated them badly > whereas > > > the CS from the generator did not. She washed her shower curtains with > the > > > commercial stuff. > > > Does anyone know anything about the 'precipitate method' of making CS? > > > This local company sends out drum after drum of this. I wonder how much > of > > > what's available in stores is this very same product repackaged. > > > KD'C > > > > > > At 06:56 AM 4/6/00 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Hello, > > > > > > > >I am new to CS and this list. I got a prett serious > > > >burn, and a book I have suggested applying CS > > > >topically. I bought some at the local health food > > > >store (not knowing anything about it), and what I got > > > >is 1100 ppm (manufactured by Innovative Natural > > > >Products). I tried applying this to the area, and it > > > >seemed to worsen, so I stopped. I have continued to > > > >take a small amount internally. > > > > > > > >since beginning my research into CS on the web, I see > > > >that most of you use a much weaker solution. Is 1100 > > > >way too strong? (it is a dark yellow color). Is this > > > >safe to apply topically to my burn? > > > >any advice would be much appreciated! > > > > > > > >__ > > > >Do You Yahoo!? > > > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > > > >http://im.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal > silver. > > > > > > > >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: > > > >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com > > > >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. > > > > > > > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > > > >Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > > >List maintainer: Mike Devour > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: cs strength
Marshall, and "coyote", there is a product on the market - also produced chemically - one of the finest colloids we've seen. But it has a pH of 3.1, effectively a mild acid. However it is free of any ionic attribute, a pure colloid! I suggested that we bring it up to pH normal and have a look it then formed crystal structures up to several hundred nm. Cannot even begin to fathom the reaction in vivo, but certainly are not going to find out Stephen - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley To: Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 11:52 AM Subject: Re: cs strength > coyote wrote: > > > ##Slightly off subject but may be enlightening > > > > There is a company near me that manufactures CS by the 55 gallon drum, > > sold bulk to repackagers. I visited and asked questions. They do not use > > and electrical process but something called a "Precipitate method". The > > person i spoke to was very closed mouth about it. The CS was a very deep > > bright yellow, almost iridescent [ viewed through a half inch clear > > plastic tube] and was stored in what looked like a blue plastic pickle > > barrel like the local Mount Olive pickle company uses. > > > > The precipitate method is what was used in the 30's. It is the least expensive > method, and produces an inferior, possibly toxic, product. > > Here is how it works. You start with a salt of silver, most likely silver > nitrate, then add a base to it, such as sodium hydroxide (aka lye, draino). > The two react producing silver particles and sodium nitrate. > > There are several problems with this. First you now have sodium nitrate in the > sol, which ends up in the final material, or other processes must be used to > remove it. Total remove is highly unlikely. Also silver nitrate can still > remain, and this can cause argyria and is considered a poison. If too much lye > is added, then there will be traces of what is basically drano in there as > well. > > Added to this is that the particles are not charged up positively like in the > electrolytic process, then they will quickly aggregate and produce larger > particles, plus without the charge, they lose a lot of effectiveness. > > Thus you end up with a product which has reduced effectiveness, reduced > stability, increased toxicity, and the possibility of it causing argyria. But > it is very cheap to make this way. > > Typical of big companies, damn the product, make it as cheap as possible. No > wonder they are closed mouthed about it. > > Marshall > > > > > > > I recently sold a generator to a woman who attempted to use [deep bright > > yellow] commercial CS in her eyes. She said it irritated them badly whereas > > the CS from the generator did not. She washed her shower curtains with the > > commercial stuff. > > Does anyone know anything about the 'precipitate method' of making CS? > > This local company sends out drum after drum of this. I wonder how much of > > what's available in stores is this very same product repackaged. > > KD'C > > > > At 06:56 AM 4/6/00 -0700, you wrote: > > >Hello, > > > > > >I am new to CS and this list. I got a prett serious > > >burn, and a book I have suggested applying CS > > >topically. I bought some at the local health food > > >store (not knowing anything about it), and what I got > > >is 1100 ppm (manufactured by Innovative Natural > > >Products). I tried applying this to the area, and it > > >seemed to worsen, so I stopped. I have continued to > > >take a small amount internally. > > > > > >since beginning my research into CS on the web, I see > > >that most of you use a much weaker solution. Is 1100 > > >way too strong? (it is a dark yellow color). Is this > > >safe to apply topically to my burn? > > >any advice would be much appreciated! > > > > > >__ > > >Do You Yahoo!? > > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > > >http://im.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > >-- > > >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > > > > > >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: > > >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com > > >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. > > > > > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > > >Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > >List maintainer: Mike Devour > > > > > > > > > >
Re: cs strength
I would mix it with aloe vera and possibly a little vitamin E. A previous message on here from someone who researched it found that a combination of raw honey, 10 ppm colloidal silver, aloe vera and a small amount of vitamin E was the best treatment they ever found. Check the archives for the proportions. The message was from Brooks Bailey. Marshall culprit wrote: > Hello, > > I am new to CS and this list. I got a prett serious > burn, and a book I have suggested applying CS > topically. I bought some at the local health food > store (not knowing anything about it), and what I got > is 1100 ppm (manufactured by Innovative Natural > Products). I tried applying this to the area, and it > seemed to worsen, so I stopped. I have continued to > take a small amount internally. > > since beginning my research into CS on the web, I see > that most of you use a much weaker solution. Is 1100 > way too strong? (it is a dark yellow color). Is this > safe to apply topically to my burn? > any advice would be much appreciated! > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > > -- > The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > > To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: > silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com > with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. > > To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: cs strength
coyote wrote: > ##Slightly off subject but may be enlightening > > There is a company near me that manufactures CS by the 55 gallon drum, > sold bulk to repackagers. I visited and asked questions. They do not use > and electrical process but something called a "Precipitate method". The > person i spoke to was very closed mouth about it. The CS was a very deep > bright yellow, almost iridescent [ viewed through a half inch clear > plastic tube] and was stored in what looked like a blue plastic pickle > barrel like the local Mount Olive pickle company uses. > The precipitate method is what was used in the 30's. It is the least expensive method, and produces an inferior, possibly toxic, product. Here is how it works. You start with a salt of silver, most likely silver nitrate, then add a base to it, such as sodium hydroxide (aka lye, draino). The two react producing silver particles and sodium nitrate. There are several problems with this. First you now have sodium nitrate in the sol, which ends up in the final material, or other processes must be used to remove it. Total remove is highly unlikely. Also silver nitrate can still remain, and this can cause argyria and is considered a poison. If too much lye is added, then there will be traces of what is basically drano in there as well. Added to this is that the particles are not charged up positively like in the electrolytic process, then they will quickly aggregate and produce larger particles, plus without the charge, they lose a lot of effectiveness. Thus you end up with a product which has reduced effectiveness, reduced stability, increased toxicity, and the possibility of it causing argyria. But it is very cheap to make this way. Typical of big companies, damn the product, make it as cheap as possible. No wonder they are closed mouthed about it. Marshall > > I recently sold a generator to a woman who attempted to use [deep bright > yellow] commercial CS in her eyes. She said it irritated them badly whereas > the CS from the generator did not. She washed her shower curtains with the > commercial stuff. > Does anyone know anything about the 'precipitate method' of making CS? > This local company sends out drum after drum of this. I wonder how much of > what's available in stores is this very same product repackaged. > KD'C > > At 06:56 AM 4/6/00 -0700, you wrote: > >Hello, > > > >I am new to CS and this list. I got a prett serious > >burn, and a book I have suggested applying CS > >topically. I bought some at the local health food > >store (not knowing anything about it), and what I got > >is 1100 ppm (manufactured by Innovative Natural > >Products). I tried applying this to the area, and it > >seemed to worsen, so I stopped. I have continued to > >take a small amount internally. > > > >since beginning my research into CS on the web, I see > >that most of you use a much weaker solution. Is 1100 > >way too strong? (it is a dark yellow color). Is this > >safe to apply topically to my burn? > >any advice would be much appreciated! > > > >__ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > >http://im.yahoo.com > > > > > >-- > >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > > > >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: > >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com > >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. > > > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > >Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > >List maintainer: Mike Devour > > > > > >
Re: cs strength
##Slightly off subject but may be enlightening There is a company near me that manufactures CS by the 55 gallon drum, sold bulk to repackagers. I visited and asked questions. They do not use and electrical process but something called a "Precipitate method". The person i spoke to was very closed mouth about it. The CS was a very deep bright yellow, almost iridescent [ viewed through a half inch clear plastic tube] and was stored in what looked like a blue plastic pickle barrel like the local Mount Olive pickle company uses. I recently sold a generator to a woman who attempted to use [deep bright yellow] commercial CS in her eyes. She said it irritated them badly whereas the CS from the generator did not. She washed her shower curtains with the commercial stuff. Does anyone know anything about the 'precipitate method' of making CS? This local company sends out drum after drum of this. I wonder how much of what's available in stores is this very same product repackaged. KD'C At 06:56 AM 4/6/00 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, > >I am new to CS and this list. I got a prett serious >burn, and a book I have suggested applying CS >topically. I bought some at the local health food >store (not knowing anything about it), and what I got >is 1100 ppm (manufactured by Innovative Natural >Products). I tried applying this to the area, and it >seemed to worsen, so I stopped. I have continued to >take a small amount internally. > >since beginning my research into CS on the web, I see >that most of you use a much weaker solution. Is 1100 >way too strong? (it is a dark yellow color). Is this >safe to apply topically to my burn? >any advice would be much appreciated! > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > > >-- >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com >Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html >List maintainer: Mike Devour > > >
Re: CS strength, times, etc.
On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:03:36 -0500, Pam Whitmire wrote: >Today I heated the water to approx. 125 degrees, >started the generator and at about 11 minutes I began to see tiny >bubbles on one rod. Started timer again, and at the end of about 24 >minutes the one rod was black and starting to form some deposits on the >end (but none were dropping in the water) the other rod was also >blackish and beginning to mist a bit from the end. I turned it off and >have left it alone. Sounds like you're making good CS. This has been my experience with a similar setup including the timing. Don't sweat the finesses you'll read about until you have more experience. What you're doing will work just fine. Chuck If you want to steam a clam... Make fun of his religion (Chuck Barris) -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
