[RCSE] Re: Soaring V1 #11425
It is always interesting to incorporate new ideas into our contests. I see this has having 3 effects: 1) Pretty much eliminates all the light wood and many bagged wing planes from the contest. You will need an F3J moldie, a spar based bagged wing or a carbon capped wood wing to take this all out type launch. Spirits and Gentle Ladies need not apply. If you are going to go for high speed, high pressure all out launches, you will need high end planes to compete. 2) Lots of line breaks, or you will need 300+ pound line. How do you handle line breaks in this situation? 3) Higher winch maintenance costs and people REALLY wanting to fly the strongest winch all the time. Try as you may, there will always be stronger and weaker winches. Today it is not as much of an issue, but a time on tow rule will make this a critical issue in the contest. I would say, leave the F3J rules in F3J. If you want to adopt that format, then fly that format. Best regards, Ed Anderson > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:21:26 -0700 (PDT) > From: Craig Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "soaring@airage.com" > Subject: Contest ideaTime on tow penalty for TD? > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > --0-778948686-1216084886=:2951 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > After watching the World F3J I had an idea for a contest... > > Incorporate the time penalty on tow that they have in F3J but in a TD format. > > You would have a timer at each winch who would time your launch and write that time down on your card... For example if it were a 10 min task and you towed for 6 sec the best time you could get would be a 9:54 even though you flew a perfect 10... Or even better... Double the time on tow penalty, so if it was a 6 sec tow the best time you could get would be 9:48. Seems to me it would throw more strategy and fun into a normal TD contest > > Suggestions ? Comments? > > Craig > > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Contest idea....Time on tow penalty for TD?
In a message dated 07/14/2008 8:21:54 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: After watching the World F3J I had an idea for a contest... Incorporate the time penalty on tow that they have in F3J but in a TD format. You would have a timer at each winch who would time your launch and write that time down on your card... For example if it were a 10 min task and you towed for 6 sec the best time you could get would be a 9:54 even though you flew a perfect 10... Or even better... Double the time on tow penalty, so if it was a 6 sec tow the best time you could get would be 9:48. Seems to me it would throw more strategy and fun into a normal TD contest Suggestions ? Comments? Craig Having read the other replies, I think the solution would be to have a device that timed the length of time the winch motor was on for the launch and deduct that from the score. That would allow a woody to tap up to the top and take their time doing so without incurring the "time on tow" penalty. The penalty would then be for "time using power on tow." Bill Wingstedt **Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus0005000112) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] US F3J Team Raffle Closing
OK guys last chance to enter the raffle. At 5:00PM today the website ordering page will be turned off. The drawing will be tomorrow evening. http://www.usf3jteam.com Jim
[RCSE] Johnny Berlin's 8 hour task
Attta Boy, John! Butch woulda been proud of Ya! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Contest idea....Time on tow penalty for TD?
Craig, What is with messing around with winch time All minimizing winch time does is make planes go up faster, and have them built like composite bullets. Why not do something simple, like take the weight of the plane, mulitply it by seconds and get a max time you have to fly?? We once talked about this , way back, when people used to fly scale, or really stand off scale in the LSF tounaments and SSOAR NAT (that dates me!) Pilots often chose unique projects that could not compete with the "slicker" ships. A Schul Glider had a L/D of 15: or so. If you took the L/D and multiply it by say 10 seconds, that meant that your max time had to be 150 seconds (2.5 minutes), which was reasonable for draggy, early gliders. If you had a Kestral, with an L/D of 36:1, that meant 360 seconds, or 6 minutes. That was reasonable for a slick glider. That kept scale gliders of all vintages competitive. So...let me ask this: What happens if the launch is a discus launch of a 100" glider NO TOW TIME Think about it. If you know you can hand launch into a thermal, why loose 4-5 seconds every time Hello JW!! Personally, any time you try to do this stuff, it always ends up with a conclusion no one wants to fly! Chris > Original Message > Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest ideaTime on tow penalty for TD? > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Tue, July 15, 2008 6:03 am > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.com > In a message dated 07/14/2008 8:21:54 PM Central Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > After watching the World F3J I had an idea for a contest... > Incorporate the time penalty on tow that they have in F3J but in a TD format. > You would have a timer at each winch who would time your launch and write > that time down on your card... For example if it were a 10 min task and you > towed for 6 sec the best time you could get would be a 9:54 even though you > flew a > perfect 10... Or even better... Double the time on tow penalty, so if it was > a 6 sec tow the best time you could get would be 9:48. Seems to me it would > throw more strategy and fun into a normal TD contest > Suggestions ? Comments? > Craig > > > Having read the other replies, I think the solution would be to have a device > that timed the length of time the winch motor was on for the launch and > deduct that from the score. That would allow a woody to tap up to the top and > take > their time doing so without incurring the "time on tow" penalty. The penalty > would then be for "time using power on tow." > > Bill Wingstedt > > **Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music > scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! > (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus0005000112) > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and > "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and > unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. > Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in > text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Contest idea....Time on tow penalty for TD?
Wow, another how you launch discussion! Check out the 18 pages of "stuff" on RCGroups-Electric Sailplanes if you want to get all the in's and out's of launching in a TD contest with motors. It is under the "F5J" thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=883683. It is a worthwhile discussion on how to save the Electric Sailplane Nat's by getting winch launched TD pilots involved in using electric motors to launch F3J style to a specific altitude and making it a real sailplane contest. Our club is experimenting with this a little and I hope to organize a demo sometime during the WL Nat's to generate some interest. So far our club likes both launch methods but the impromptu MOM contest with electrics is winning. No winch problems and almost any plane or power system works. I am still tweaking some of the little differences we will need for F5J but hope to have a rules set built within the next year and tested over the next couple of years (maybe at the Nat's like I did with Nostalgia) before submitting a rules change proposal to AMA. Jack On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:03 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In a message dated 07/14/2008 8:21:54 PM Central Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > After watching the World F3J I had an idea for a contest... > > Incorporate the time penalty on tow that they have in F3J but in a TD > format. > > You would have a timer at each winch who would time your launch and write > that time down on your card... For example if it were a 10 min task and > you > towed for 6 sec the best time you could get would be a 9:54 even though you > flew a > perfect 10... Or even better... Double the time on tow penalty, so if it > was > a 6 sec tow the best time you could get would be 9:48. Seems to me it would > throw more strategy and fun into a normal TD contest > > Suggestions ? Comments? > > Craig > > > Having read the other replies, I think the solution would be to have a > device > that timed the length of time the winch motor was on for the launch and > deduct that from the score. That would allow a woody to tap up to the top > and take > their time doing so without incurring the "time on tow" penalty. The > penalty > would then be for "time using power on tow." > > Bill Wingstedt > > > > > **Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live > music > scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! > (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus0005000112) > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and > "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that > subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with > MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL > are generally NOT in text format > -- Jack Iafret Home and Hobbies
Re: [RCSE] Contest idea....Time on tow penalty for TD?
That would be interesting. It could force short tows even in conditions that are nominal. It's also good discipline for learning short launches and low alt recovery. I think the added man power requirement and potential for human error would kill this if you added a launch time keeper at each station. Each club would need a PA system and working times other wise individual timers would be required for each launch. If they use a PA system thent he time just starts and stops when the plane comes off the hook and landssame outcome. DW On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Craig Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > After watching the World F3J I had an idea for a contest... > > Incorporate the time penalty on tow that they have in F3J but in a TD > format. > > You would have a timer at each winch who would time your launch and write > that time down on your card... For example if it were a 10 min task and you > towed for 6 sec the best time you could get would be a 9:54 even though you > flew a perfect 10... Or even better... Double the time on tow penalty, so if > it was a 6 sec tow the best time you could get would be 9:48. Seems to me it > would throw more strategy and fun into a normal TD contest > > Suggestions ? Comments? > > Craig > > >
RE: [RCSE] Contest idea....Time on tow added for TD?
I think everyone has made good points... I like the idea of extra points for time on tow... I know it would be a lot harder to keep my Sharon on tow for the same time as my AvA... I'm just bored with TD I guess... Anyone want a Sharon? PS... This last weekend we should of had one of the best 2 day Contest in NorCal. The Gamblers Gala, hosted by the Sierra Silent Soarers and CD'd by none other than the Great Lee Cox... Unfortunately it was canceled... I think I speak for a lot of pilots when I say I'm sorry that it was not held and hope it comes back next year... :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig, What is with messing around with winch time All minimizing winch time does is make planes go up faster, and have them built like composite bullets. Why not do something simple, like take the weight of the plane, mulitply it by seconds and get a max time you have to fly?? We once talked about this , way back, when people used to fly scale, or really stand off scale in the LSF tounaments and SSOAR NAT (that dates me!) Pilots often chose unique projects that could not compete with the "slicker" ships. A Schul Glider had a L/D of 15: or so. If you took the L/D and multiply it by say 10 seconds, that meant that your max time had to be 150 seconds (2.5 minutes), which was reasonable for draggy, early gliders. If you had a Kestral, with an L/D of 36:1, that meant 360 seconds, or 6 minutes. That was reasonable for a slick glider. That kept scale gliders of all vintages competitive. So...let me ask this: What happens if the launch is a discus launch of a 100" glider NO TOW TIME Think about it. If you know you can hand launch into a thermal, why loose 4-5 seconds every time Hello JW!! Personally, any time you try to do this stuff, it always ends up with a conclusion no one wants to fly! Chris > Original Message > Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest ideaTime on tow penalty for TD? > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Tue, July 15, 2008 6:03 am > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.com > In a message dated 07/14/2008 8:21:54 PM Central Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > After watching the World F3J I had an idea for a contest... > Incorporate the time penalty on tow that they have in F3J but in a TD format. > You would have a timer at each winch who would time your launch and write > that time down on your card... For example if it were a 10 min task and you > towed for 6 sec the best time you could get would be a 9:54 even though you > flew a > perfect 10... Or even better... Double the time on tow penalty, so if it was > a 6 sec tow the best time you could get would be 9:48. Seems to me it would > throw more strategy and fun into a normal TD contest > Suggestions ? Comments? > Craig > > > Having read the other replies, I think the solution would be to have a device > that timed the length of time the winch motor was on for the launch and > deduct that from the score. That would allow a woody to tap up to the top and > take > their time doing so without incurring the "time on tow" penalty. The penalty > would then be for "time using power on tow." > > Bill Wingstedt > > **Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music > scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! > (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus0005000112) > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and > "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and > unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. > Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in > text format
[RCSE] Re: Contest idea....Time on tow penalty for TD?
I think this kind of rule would particularly SUCK. You would have to employ additional personnel to officiate the contest (undesirable, unworkable, error prone). And, just think of how "well" this would work at big contests! NO, We DO NOT need more rules for TD. It works just fine as is. The fact is, is that the time spent on tow in good old American TD is irrelevant: most get of in only a few seconds anyway, and staying on longer would not provide any practical benefit to anyone except those flying ancient gas bags. Since there are only about three people still alive doing this, why even consider it? They are not winning contests anyway. In electric launching TD (ETD), an altitude limiter has been under consideration / discussion so as to emulate winching limitations. This is an entirely different situation which only some readers seem to understand. For regular TD, NO, NO, HELL NO. Get Real!And get over the "RULE MANIA" stuff. Sheeze. D.O. leaving soap box... On Jul 15, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Soaring wrote: SoaringTue, 15 Jul 2008Volume 1 : Number 11427 In this issue: exactically Re: [RCSE] Contest ideaTime on tow penalty for TD? US F3J Team Raffle Closing Johnny Berlin's 8 hour task -- Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:03:31 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest ideaTime on tow penalty for TD? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In a message dated 07/14/2008 8:21:54 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: After watching the World F3J I had an idea for a contest... Incorporate the time penalty on tow that they have in F3J but in a TD format. You would have a timer at each winch who would time your launch and write that time down on your card... For example if it were a 10 min task and you towed for 6 sec the best time you could get would be a 9:54 even though you flew a perfect 10... Or even better... Double the time on tow penalty, so if it was a 6 sec tow the best time you could get would be 9:48. Seems to me it would throw more strategy and fun into a normal TD contest Suggestions ? Comments? Craig Having read the other replies, I think the solution would be to have a device that timed the length of time the winch motor was on for the launch and deduct that from the score. That would allow a woody to tap up to the top and take their time doing so without incurring the "time on tow" penalty. The penalty would then be for "time using power on tow." Bill Wingstedt **Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus0005000112) -- Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:28:30 -0600 From: "Jim Monaco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'RCSE'" Subject: US F3J Team Raffle Closing Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=_NextPart_000_0023_01C8E64C.61D6CFF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK guys last chance to enter the raffle. At 5:00PM today the website ordering page will be turned off. The drawing will be tomorrow evening. http://www.usf3jteam.com Jim --=_NextPart_000_0023_01C8E64C.61D6CFF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40";> medium)">