Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
Hi Raph, We all agree that ASCII file editing (like with Maya .ma) would be very useful. My point was just about the crash issue. Having working with the source code of Softimage (even if I was not a persistence specialist), I can imagine how hard it would be to debug a crash in an ASCII scene file. By hard, I mean, from a production point of view. Of course people are free to spend days/weeks/months trying to debug such problem :). On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: There's actually a surprising number of issues that you can spot right away when you have an ascii file that don't involve the kind of ASCII search that feels like picking fleas off a wolf. Scene bloat, something Maya suffers for enormously but Soft isn't exactly immune to, is just one of many examples where if you have an ascii file finding the recurring pattern of orphaned data is easy and can bring a file back from the death. Mind, not that it seems this is ever going to happen for Soft anyway at this point. On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Guillaume Laforge guillaume.laforge...@gmail.com wrote: I don't want to be the TD searching in this ASCII .scn file trying to find out how to fix the crash. Just saying :) On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Andy Jones andy.jo...@gmail.com wrote: I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format. Just pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash recovery problem. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using Maya, it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able to run diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed would be amazing. Kind regards Angus From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to fix broken scenes after they've been saved. On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish ron...@toonafish.nl wrote: Word ! That would save sooo many lives. - Ronald On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: Native ascii scene file format. Period. Though we've been asking for it forever now. -Octav On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log either. Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not at all like what it should’ve been. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to implementing journalling which is the thing that made filesystems more robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal. I sent my repeatHistory plugin to the beta list a while ago and got crickets. Maybe I'll try again... All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save. On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly saved before crashing. just needed to load
RE: Would you like to recover your scene?
I don't think too many people would debug an ASCII scene as much as edit it so they can salvage work. The main problem with Softimage is it's file format is largely a black box and there are very few, if any, options to working around problems encountered in production when things go awry. If the SDK were fully transparent we'd have seen a number of 3rd party solutions by now, but we don't. I tried writing my own XML based file format for this project a few years ago only to run into the problem of not having enough information available to properly rebuild the scene accurately. A simple example is the movecomponent operator. All it does is apply a transformation on vertices and should be very easy to support - but it's impossible because the transformation applied by the movecomponent operator is not exposed anywhere where my code can get at it. As a result I have to either freeze construction history to remove dependencies, or force users to not use certain tools so I can parse and rebuild the scene. Freeze construction history is not really an option because when you get to envelopes, ICE, and secondary shape corrections, it's nearly impossible to guess how to reconstruct things as again, much of the required information is not exposed in the SDK. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Guillaume Laforge Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 4:26 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? Hi Raph, We all agree that ASCII file editing (like with Maya .ma) would be very useful. My point was just about the crash issue. Having working with the source code of Softimage (even if I was not a persistence specialist), I can imagine how hard it would be to debug a crash in an ASCII scene file. By hard, I mean, from a production point of view. Of course people are free to spend days/weeks/months trying to debug such problem :). On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.commailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: There's actually a surprising number of issues that you can spot right away when you have an ascii file that don't involve the kind of ASCII search that feels like picking fleas off a wolf. Scene bloat, something Maya suffers for enormously but Soft isn't exactly immune to, is just one of many examples where if you have an ascii file finding the recurring pattern of orphaned data is easy and can bring a file back from the death. Mind, not that it seems this is ever going to happen for Soft anyway at this point. On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Guillaume Laforge guillaume.laforge...@gmail.commailto:guillaume.laforge...@gmail.com wrote: I don't want to be the TD searching in this ASCII .scn file trying to find out how to fix the crash. Just saying :) On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Andy Jones andy.jo...@gmail.commailto:andy.jo...@gmail.com wrote: I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format. Just pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash recovery problem. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.zamailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using Maya, it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able to run diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed would be amazing. Kind regards Angus From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.commailto:andy.jo...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to fix broken scenes after they've been saved. On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish ron...@toonafish.nlmailto:ron...@toonafish.nl wrote: Word ! That would save sooo many lives. - Ronald On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: Native ascii scene file format. Period. Though we've been asking for it forever now. -Octav On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.commailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not log. There's a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log either. Back in good ol' days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get anything
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
if you had ascii you could delete part of the scene file until it loads.. right now it's impossible to do that. when merge scene avoid the crash, the problem is usually loading the information (cameras, modes, etc) for the viewports or some other view in the layout that saves extra information in the scene. it shouldn't happen, but it's been known the happen, especially with real time shader modes I think. Saving normally the scene after merge is fine. there is a Scene Debugging tab in the user preferences with options that may help debugging more difficult crashes look especially at Load Recovery Journal File http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/index.html?url=files/userprefs519.htm,topicNumber=d30e804537,hash=WSC52E97AF964D6E4A85D54D15483CB299-0021 also http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112id=13487723linkID=12544120 On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Guillaume Laforge guillaume.laforge...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Raph, We all agree that ASCII file editing (like with Maya .ma) would be very useful. My point was just about the crash issue. Having working with the source code of Softimage (even if I was not a persistence specialist), I can imagine how hard it would be to debug a crash in an ASCII scene file. By hard, I mean, from a production point of view. Of course people are free to spend days/weeks/months trying to debug such problem :).
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
Yeah, my point isn't that replaying the commands is currently a viable alternative for scene recovery (though I would say it's better than nothing in the cases where the auto-recovery fails). Just that it could be a really good solution, if some more effort were put into ensuring every interaction got logged as a command of some kind. And since a lot of people rely on command logging as a way to build scripts, they'd be killing two birds with one stone. The plugin is just a proof of concept. A journaling approach just seems like a better way to deal with file recovery than a weird last-second binary dump, especially given that the dump often contains the thing causing the crash in the first place and has no way to handle things like power outages, auto-logouts, etc. There's no reason 3D software can't be as robust with file recovery as Nuke is. Even if there are commands that can't be logged for some reason, you could have a special dirty state that triggers a normal auto-save in those instances to ensure that the journal-based recovery can still work properly. On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log either. Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not at all like what it should’ve been. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to implementing journalling which is the thing that made filesystems more robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal. I sent my repeatHistory plugin to the beta list a while ago and got crickets. Maybe I'll try again... All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save. On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com wrote: You're doing it wrong... On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: SoftImage: Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene? Eric: Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back! SoftImage You'll get nothing and like it! Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to fix broken scenes after they've been saved. On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish ron...@toonafish.nl wrote: Word ! That would save sooo many lives. - Ronald On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: Native ascii scene file format. Period. Though we've been asking for it forever now. -Octav On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log either. Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not at all like what it should’ve been. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to implementing journalling which is the thing that made filesystems more robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal. I sent my repeatHistory plugin to the beta list a while ago and got crickets. Maybe I'll try again... All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save. On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com wrote: You're doing it wrong... On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: SoftImage: Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene? Eric: Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back! SoftImage You'll get nothing and like it! Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work -- Octavian Ureche +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2) Animation Visual Effects www.okto.ro -- Ronald van Vemden --- 3D Graphics Animation Cyberfish Laboratories | www.cyberfish.nl Toonafish | www.toonafish.nl tel. +31(0)20 5289291 fax +31(0)20 5289292 email: ron...@toonafish.nl
RE: Would you like to recover your scene?
An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using Maya, it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able to run diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed would be amazing. Kind regards Angus From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to fix broken scenes after they've been saved. On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish ron...@toonafish.nl wrote: Word ! That would save sooo many lives. - Ronald On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: Native ascii scene file format. Period. Though we've been asking for it forever now. -Octav On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log either. Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not at all like what it should’ve been. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to implementing journalling which is the thing that made filesystems more robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal. I sent my repeatHistory plugin to the beta list a while ago and got crickets. Maybe I'll try again... All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save. On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com wrote: You're doing it wrong... On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: SoftImage: Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene? Eric: Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back! SoftImage You'll get nothing and like it! Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work -- Octavian Ureche +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2) Animation Visual Effects www.okto.ro -- Ronald van Vemden --- 3D Graphics Animation Cyberfish Laboratories | www.cyberfish.nl Toonafish | www.toonafish.nl tel. +31(0)20 5289291 fax +31(0)20 5289292 email: ron...@toonafish.nl = table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format. Just pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash recovery problem. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using Maya, it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able to run diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed would be amazing. Kind regards Angus From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to fix broken scenes after they've been saved. On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish ron...@toonafish.nl wrote: Word ! That would save sooo many lives. - Ronald On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: Native ascii scene file format. Period. Though we've been asking for it forever now. -Octav On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log either. Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not at all like what it should’ve been. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to implementing journalling which is the thing that made filesystems more robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal. I sent my repeatHistory plugin to the beta list a while ago and got crickets. Maybe I'll try again... All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save. On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com wrote: You're doing it wrong... On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: SoftImage: Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene? Eric: Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back! SoftImage You'll get nothing and like it! Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work -- Octavian Ureche +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2) Animation Visual Effects www.okto.ro -- Ronald van Vemden --- 3D Graphics Animation Cyberfish Laboratories | www.cyberfish.nl Toonafish | www.toonafish.nl tel. +31(0)20 5289291 fax +31(0)20 5289292 email: ron...@toonafish.nl = table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
I don't want to be the TD searching in this ASCII .scn file trying to find out how to fix the crash. Just saying :) On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Andy Jones andy.jo...@gmail.com wrote: I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format. Just pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash recovery problem. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using Maya, it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able to run diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed would be amazing. Kind regards Angus From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to fix broken scenes after they've been saved. On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish ron...@toonafish.nl wrote: Word ! That would save sooo many lives. - Ronald On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: Native ascii scene file format. Period. Though we've been asking for it forever now. -Octav On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log either. Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not at all like what it should’ve been. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to implementing journalling which is the thing that made filesystems more robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal. I sent my repeatHistory plugin to the beta list a while ago and got crickets. Maybe I'll try again... All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save. On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com wrote: You're doing it wrong... On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: SoftImage: Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene? Eric: Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back! SoftImage You'll get nothing and like it! Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work -- Octavian Ureche +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2) Animation Visual Effects www.okto.ro -- Ronald van Vemden --- 3D Graphics Animation Cyberfish Laboratories | www.cyberfish.nl Toonafish | www.toonafish.nl tel. +31(0)20 5289291 fax +31(0)20 5289292 email: ron...@toonafish.nl = table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
There's actually a surprising number of issues that you can spot right away when you have an ascii file that don't involve the kind of ASCII search that feels like picking fleas off a wolf. Scene bloat, something Maya suffers for enormously but Soft isn't exactly immune to, is just one of many examples where if you have an ascii file finding the recurring pattern of orphaned data is easy and can bring a file back from the death. Mind, not that it seems this is ever going to happen for Soft anyway at this point. On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Guillaume Laforge guillaume.laforge...@gmail.com wrote: I don't want to be the TD searching in this ASCII .scn file trying to find out how to fix the crash. Just saying :) On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Andy Jones andy.jo...@gmail.com wrote: I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format. Just pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash recovery problem. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using Maya, it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able to run diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed would be amazing. Kind regards Angus From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to fix broken scenes after they've been saved. On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish ron...@toonafish.nl wrote: Word ! That would save sooo many lives. - Ronald On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: Native ascii scene file format. Period. Though we've been asking for it forever now. -Octav On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log either. Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not at all like what it should’ve been. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to implementing journalling which is the thing that made filesystems more robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal. I sent my repeatHistory plugin to the beta list a while ago and got crickets. Maybe I'll try again... All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save. On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com wrote: You're doing it wrong... On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: SoftImage: Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene? Eric: Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back! SoftImage You'll get nothing and like it! Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
Native ascii scene file format. Period. Though we've been asking for it forever now. -Octav On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log either. ** ** Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not at all like what it should’ve been. ** ** ** ** Matt ** ** ** ** ** ** *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy Jones *Sent:* Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Would you like to recover your scene? ** ** I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to implementing journalling which is the thing that made filesystems more robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal. ** ** I sent my repeatHistory plugin to the beta list a while ago and got crickets. Maybe I'll try again... ** ** All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save. On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ ** ** On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com wrote:* *** You're doing it wrong... On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: SoftImage: Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene? Eric: Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back! SoftImage You'll get nothing and like it! Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work ** ** ** ** -- Octavian Ureche +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2) Animation Visual Effects www.okto.ro
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
Word ! That would save sooo many lives. - Ronald On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: Native ascii scene file format. Period. Though we've been asking for it forever now. -Octav On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com mailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log either. Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not at all like what it should’ve been. Matt *From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy Jones *Sent:* Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to implementing journalling which is the thing that made filesystems more robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal. I sent my repeatHistory plugin to the beta list a while ago and got crickets. Maybe I'll try again... All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save. On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com wrote: You're doing it wrong... On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: SoftImage: Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene? Eric: Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back! SoftImage You'll get nothing and like it! Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work -- Octavian Ureche +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2) Animation Visual Effects www.okto.ro http://www.okto.ro -- Ronald van Vemden --- 3D Graphics Animation Cyberfish Laboratories | www.cyberfish.nl Toonafish | www.toonafish.nl tel. +31(0)20 5289291 fax +31(0)20 5289292 email: ron...@toonafish.nl
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com wrote: You're doing it wrong... On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: SoftImage: Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene? Eric: Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back! SoftImage You'll get nothing and like it! Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/**user7979713/3d-workhttp://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
You're doing it wrong... On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: SoftImage: Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene? Eric: Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back! SoftImage You'll get nothing and like it! Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to
implementing journalling which is the thing that made filesystems more
robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind
of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations.
If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command
logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation
journal.
I sent my repeatHistory plugin to the beta list a while ago and got
crickets. Maybe I'll try again...
All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and
them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets
the script log path on scene open/save.
On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote:
Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly
saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually.
http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/
On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge
ethivie...@hybride.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'ethivie...@hybride.com');
wrote:
You're doing it wrong...
On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote:
SoftImage: Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to
recover your scene?
Eric: Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!
SoftImage You'll get nothing and like it!
Meh
Eric
Freelance 3D and VFX animator
http://vimeopro.com/**user7979713/3d-workhttp://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
RE: Would you like to recover your scene?
My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not log. There's a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log either. Back in good ol' days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not at all like what it should've been. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to implementing journalling which is the thing that made filesystems more robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal. I sent my repeatHistory plugin to the beta list a while ago and got crickets. Maybe I'll try again... All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save. On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.comjavascript:_e(%7b%7d,%20'cvml',%20'ethivie...@hybride.com'); wrote: You're doing it wrong... On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: SoftImage: Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene? Eric: Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back! SoftImage You'll get nothing and like it! Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
