RE: end of another era

[Sven Constable]

I agree almost completely, Matt. I know MR became some attention by its
developers lately with the GI-Next stuff and some other things. I also knew
that XSI's implementation of MR wasn't ideal and probably the reason for the
instability in many cases. Whats sad, because once softimage was famous for
its MR integration. But even the integration would have been flawless,
smooth and perfect over all the years, the renderer itself became too old.
Too much of its algorithms and core design had to be rewritten to comply
with modern demands, I would think.
I always liked MR for what it does, but there are definetly scenes that you
cannot render in MR whatever your knowledge is. In theory MR can do it.  It
can handle GI, motionblur,DOF and has some neat optimisations for glossy
reflections. Combine even a few of these advanced features (that's not so
advanced by today) and you will reach render times far beyond reasonable.
I'm talking about the latest version (1.12) in softimage.

Mental ray has serious and painstakingly correct  SSS that is "physically"
correct by using photon mapping and it had it long before other renderers
IIRC, but was hard to use and took decent amount of time. I think no one
used it in production. They came up with the fast-sss shaders and they were
more usable. MR can do path tracing and other cool things. There is a lot
what MR can do on paper but in production you'll need a much bigger render
farm than you would need with most other renderers.
For NPR stuff its quite good an I still like it for the many shaders I have
available inside XSI.

Just today I switched to redshift for an animation, that would have take at
least 2 days on the (small, eight machine) renderfarm, because I needed 3d
motion blur. Sometimes you need it. Even with the rasterizer and unified
sampling (what is btw not useable in v1.12) I hit render times of 10 minutes
per frame. That's not much, but if you need to finish 2500 frames until the
day after tomorrow it becomes a problem. :)
I re-shaded it for redshift and with a few optimisations, a frame took 20
seconds on just the workstation. Of course that's GPU versus CPU and not
comparable. Nevertheless, I would not be able to finish the project by using
MR in this case.

As for the compartmentalisation (love you for those words btw), I wonder if
this is the reason why mental ray volume shaders were never exposed inside
XSIs render tree?

Sven

-Original Message-
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Matt Lind
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 5:06 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: end of another era

A lot of people don't know this, but mental ray received a HUGE update last
year with acceleration as much as 20x for global illumination and related. 
The version that ships with Softimage didn't receive this update, of course.

After acquiring mental ray, Nvidia let it rot for a few years before
deciding they should put effort into it after all, then put significant work
into it, but not until after many people went to other options.

As much flak as people put towards mental ray, it's actually a very good
renderer, but it requires you have knowledge of raytracing algorithms to
make best use of it.  The problem is most users only used the interactive
version which was hamstrung by the XSI interface which created most of the
problems related to crashing due to memory constraints and other issues.  If
you ever used mental ray from the command line on it's own, you'd know it
was actually very fast and stable.  If it had continued to be included as a
standalone renderer after XSI v2.x, it would've been more popular as those
serious about rendering would've gone to the command line and/or written
their own scripted UI for it such as with Qt.  Classic case of marketing
ruining a product's profitability.

My only complaint as a shader writer was that mental ray was overly
compartmentalized which sometimes made it difficult to access parts of the
scene to create comprehensive shading effects.  What you could do with a
single uber shader inside another renderer, required teamwork between
multiple smaller shaders in mental ray.  It was also not documented very
well in the advanced areas.  You had to really figure it out on your own. 
While the documentation was accurate, a lot of it didn't make sense until
you already know how the renderer worked.  But once you did, you had a lot
of power at your finger tips.

Matt



Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:01:52 +0100
From: Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: end of another era
To: Anto Matkovic <a...@matkovic.com>, "Official Softimage Users

MR wasn't heaven, but it's again another widely used abandonned software.
Of course the provider will never tell the user that he has stop its
development, no, instead the users finds out waiting months, then years,
that nothing happen or changed on the platform h

Re: end of another era

[Morten Bartholdy]

Mental Ray was good at stills and simplistic animation - it had good shaders 
and could render stuff fast, however it became useless for film style 
production as it was unable to do proper FG with motionblur and DOF, which is 
also where it hung and crashed plenty.

I have lost many nights and lots of hair troubleshooting MR crap, and it was 
not for lack of understanding of raytracing. I actually tested it pretty 
thoroughly so I have a pretty good understanding of how to optimize it.

3Delight came to my rescue at some point and shortly after that Arnold came 
along and made lighting and rendering fun again.

MR had its place and time, but it is long gone :)


Morten



> Den 21. november 2017 klokken 17:06 skrev Matt Lind <speye...@hotmail.com>:
> 
> 
> A lot of people don't know this, but mental ray received a HUGE update last 
> year with acceleration as much as 20x for global illumination and related. 
> The version that ships with Softimage didn't receive this update, of course.
> 
> After acquiring mental ray, Nvidia let it rot for a few years before 
> deciding they should put effort into it after all, then put significant work 
> into it, but not until after many people went to other options.
> 
> As much flak as people put towards mental ray, it's actually a very good 
> renderer, but it requires you have knowledge of raytracing algorithms to 
> make best use of it.  The problem is most users only used the interactive 
> version which was hamstrung by the XSI interface which created most of the 
> problems related to crashing due to memory constraints and other issues.  If 
> you ever used mental ray from the command line on it's own, you'd know it 
> was actually very fast and stable.  If it had continued to be included as a 
> standalone renderer after XSI v2.x, it would've been more popular as those 
> serious about rendering would've gone to the command line and/or written 
> their own scripted UI for it such as with Qt.  Classic case of marketing 
> ruining a product's profitability.
> 
> My only complaint as a shader writer was that mental ray was overly 
> compartmentalized which sometimes made it difficult to access parts of the 
> scene to create comprehensive shading effects.  What you could do with a 
> single uber shader inside another renderer, required teamwork between 
> multiple smaller shaders in mental ray.  It was also not documented very 
> well in the advanced areas.  You had to really figure it out on your own. 
> While the documentation was accurate, a lot of it didn't make sense until 
> you already know how the renderer worked.  But once you did, you had a lot 
> of power at your finger tips.
> 
> Matt
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:01:52 +0100
> From: Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: end of another era
> To: Anto Matkovic <a...@matkovic.com>, "Official Softimage Users
> 
> MR wasn't heaven, but it's again another widely used abandonned software.
> Of course the provider will never tell the user that he has stop its
> development, no, instead the users finds out waiting months, then years,
> that nothing happen or changed on the platform he thinks everything is fine.
> 
> 
> --
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> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
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RE: end of another era

[Brent McPherson]

Gelato was developed by ex-Pixar folks including Larry Gritz and started life 
as Exluna which was acquired by NVidia and sued out of existence by Pixar.

Perhaps Gelato was too close in spirit to Exluna or maybe NVidia lost interest 
after too many of the original people behind it left NVidia?

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Blue-5FMoon-5FRendering-5FTools=DwIGaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=Jmp-cFKWMARI3f6-m0bC735txGZbJr98vTb558MuOYg=XclYUE4cs0XxT4ARit97iE9BHKe38NoZ6CE40hFPMYk=
--
Brent

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Saeed Kalhor
Sent: 21 November 2017 20:39
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwIGaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=Jmp-cFKWMARI3f6-m0bC735txGZbJr98vTb558MuOYg=iXZ4lDg-RtoD8pENZV0i0kitQiZSbiaGHf-AuD9oELg=
 <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: end of another era

There is one thing about Nvidia that i don't like it, they don't have patience 
to make their software mature. Because they are a hardware company.
Do you remember Gelato render engine? If they had developed that software over 
the these years, it might have been the best GPU render software by now.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Matt Lind 
<speye...@hotmail.com<mailto:speye...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
considering you're using a complex device known as a computer in a high
performance setting, it's goes without saying you need to invest time
learning the tools of the trade.  You don't need to know all the math
algorithms, but you do need a fundamental understanding of how a raytracer
works (in comparison to a scanline or path tracing renderer, for example) so
can set up your scene to render in reasonable time and make best use of
resources.  To expect to push a magic button that makes your art for you is
unrealistic and not of the professional realm.  That's how hobbyists think.

The point of renderers like mental ray is you can customize it to very
specific needs while pushing the envelope with excellent performance in a
variety of scenarios.  Sure, there will always be weak spots, but that's
true of any software.

to put it into another light:

As a professional animator/artist, you're analogous to professional race car
driver, such as in Formula One.  You will not be building the car, but you
do need fundamental understanding of the engine, suspension, and other
elements to understand the strengths and weaknesses of the vehicle so you
can advise your team to tune it to the course and your driving style.  You
will also be required to adjust your driving style to accommodate any short
comings in the vehicle's handling and/or design.  You won't succeed if you
don't put in the effort.  Only in the simple case of going to the grocery
store can you expect your car to be simple enough to turn a key, press the
accelerator, and only worry about turning the steering wheel.  In that
scenario you're no longer pushing the envelope or competing in a
professional capacity as you're dealing with a known quantity.

Likewise, if you expect a renderer to be a push-button solution, then you're
assuming the rendering process is simple and already figured out as a
computer science problem that needs no further research.  then, and only
then, can a user interface be applied on top in a fashion as you expect
because in order to provide such a user interface, you must know all the
possible permutations/combinations of parameter settings and options that
can be applied to produce the look you're imagining.  Clearly that day
hasn't arrived, so to expect to create imagery without any basic knowledge
of a renderer is unrealistic and unprofessional.


I've worked on several projects supporting mental ray as a lighting TD and
shader writer.  The primary reason productions like Barnyard had problems
wasn't because of the technology.  It was due to people failing to take the
time to learn how to use it.  A few specific examples:

In the movie Barnyard, there is a shot of Otis jumping off a diving board
and into a pond shouting "manabunga!" - part of the trailer.  When the
artist was rendering that shot at his desk, each frame was taking 5-6 hours
at 1080p.  After a few days of struggling to meet his deadline he called me
over to his desk...which happened to be only 3 feet behind me because we
shared the same office ;-).  Anyway, after examining the shot, it was
discovered his ray depths were at the default values which caused the rays
entering the water to continually reflect for 10 bounces.  After about 15
minutes of tests, I found he only needed rays to bounce twice to get the
same end result while reducing render time to a few minutes per frame - a
reduction of more than 25x

Re: end of another era

[Graham D. Clark]

It's been easy for sometime to build your own toon shader with no coding,
just basic math and nodes in most any modern 3D cg app, so I imagine the sw
app companies saw little point in adding more.
NPR is usually unique look dev for jobs, so same reason, I doubt the sw app
companies saw a reason to make a particular packaged NPR shader for all,
but instead offered the building blocks to make you own.
But the building blocks are quite low level and many to build an NPR such
as a good sketcher or contour outliner so it would help a lot of users if
those common blocks were setup as preexisting networks.

Graham D Clark
phone: why-I-stereo
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.imdb.me_grahamdclark=DwIBaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=s6F_2Ge3xd7Y30HS1uN0Zn2_v5p2K5Jr7ur6SvGWnQQ=thJrfgRk4orfocBBwV5XCbLHQXosBaE_PWsORfxrqqk=
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On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 7:39 AM, Jonathan Moore 
wrote:

> The people that will most definitely be missing Mental Ray are those that
> use it's excellent toon shading capabilities. In this new fangled world of
> 'physically based rendering', NPR shading has seen no real attention from
> the majority of the new players.
>
>
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Re: end of another era

[Anto Matkovic]

A bit direct question, anyway:Let's say I'm using older MR version. So, with 
'knowledge of raytracing algorithms' , of course without obvious errors like 
well known 'Barnyard instancing case' :) would I be able to get mentioned 20x 
for global illumination and related, like in last version? If no, how much 
you're giving, 2x, 6x, five percent... How much for shader writer?

  From: Matt Lind <speye...@hotmail.com>
 To: "softimage@listproc.autodesk.com" <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 5:06 PM
 Subject: Re: end of another era
   
A lot of people don't know this, but mental ray received a HUGE update last 
year with acceleration as much as 20x for global illumination and related. 
The version that ships with Softimage didn't receive this update, of course.

After acquiring mental ray, Nvidia let it rot for a few years before 
deciding they should put effort into it after all, then put significant work 
into it, but not until after many people went to other options.

As much flak as people put towards mental ray, it's actually a very good 
renderer, but it requires you have knowledge of raytracing algorithms to 
make best use of it.  


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To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

Re: end of another era

[Saeed Kalhor]

 particle system.  Although there was only one
> branch of 10,000 triangles in the scene, it was instanced 200,000 times per
> tree.  By the time the geometry was fully rasterized, there were more than
> 13.5 billion triangles for those 3 trees (or at least, 13.5 billion
> triangles at time of failure according to the mental ray diagnostics logs).
> The real problem is the artist didn't understand that instances must
> converted to full geometry for use in an an external renderer (this was
> before geometry standins existed).  Once we reorganized construction of the
> scene, everything rendered as expected and sequences finished on the
> renderfarm in only a few minutes.
>
> I could go on with plenty more examples, but the point is (in my
> experience)
> most things people have griped about with mental ray are due to their own
> lack of understanding, not the technology.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 17:12:20 +0100
> From: Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: end of another era
> To: "Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.
> google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwIGaQ=76Q6Tcqc-
> t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVM
> srMw7PFsA=P5Qsb5ew7b3KyCKq9ZSV_RtlHRBljAHIMTwKi_Jz2Ro=
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> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
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> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> So in a nutshell same  with maya you need team of TDs, programmers and tech
> support to actually use it to full potential.
> And someone wonders why it was pushed back so fast with other solutions?
> WHY would anyone have to go into knowing complex math behind the hub
> instead of actually focusing on what he should do make pretty images...
> ?
>
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Matt Lind <speye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > A lot of people don't know this, but mental ray received a HUGE update
> > last
> > year with acceleration as much as 20x for global illumination and
> related.
> > The version that ships with Softimage didn't receive this update, of
> > course.
> >
> > After acquiring mental ray, Nvidia let it rot for a few years before
> > deciding they should put effort into it after all, then put significant
> > work
> > into it, but not until after many people went to other options.
> >
> > As much flak as people put towards mental ray, it's actually a very good
> > renderer, but it requires you have knowledge of raytracing algorithms to
> > make best use of it.  The problem is most users only used the interactive
> > version which was hamstrung by the XSI interface which created most of
> the
> > problems related to crashing due to memory constraints and other issues.
> > If
> > you ever used mental ray from the command line on it's own, you'd know it
> > was actually very fast and stable.  If it had continued to be included as
> > a
> > standalone renderer after XSI v2.x, it would've been more popular as
> those
> > serious about rendering would've gone to the command line and/or written
> > their own scripted UI for it such as with Qt.  Classic case of marketing
> > ruining a product's profitability.
> >
> > My only complaint as a shader writer was that mental ray was overly
> > compartmentalized which sometimes made it difficult to access parts of
> the
> > scene to create comprehensive shading effects.  What you could do with a
> > single uber shader inside another renderer, required teamwork between
> > multiple smaller shaders in mental ray.  It was also not documented very
> > well in the advanced areas.  You had to really figure it out on your own.
> > While the documentation was accurate, a lot of it didn't make sense until
> > you already know how the renderer worked.  But once you did, you had a
> lot
> > of power at your finger tips.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:01:52 +0100
> > From: Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: end of another era
> > To: Anto Matkovic <a...@matkovic.com>, "Official Softimage Users
> >
> > MR wasn't heaven, but it's again another widely used abandonned software.
> > Of course the provider will never tell the user that he has stop its
> > development, no, instead the users finds out waiting months, then years,
> > that nothing happen or changed on the platform he thinks everything is
> > fine.
> >
> >
> >

Re: end of another era

[Matt Lind]

e examples, but the point is (in my experience) 
most things people have griped about with mental ray are due to their own 
lack of understanding, not the technology.

Matt



Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 17:12:20 +0100
From: Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: end of another era
To: "Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwIGaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=P5Qsb5ew7b3KyCKq9ZSV_RtlHRBljAHIMTwKi_Jz2Ro=LWXoxeTh0C7EVhDYt4o4d2KYpU-OHjTAP7Igu229RVA=;
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
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So in a nutshell same  with maya you need team of TDs, programmers and tech
support to actually use it to full potential.
And someone wonders why it was pushed back so fast with other solutions?
WHY would anyone have to go into knowing complex math behind the hub
instead of actually focusing on what he should do make pretty images...
?

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Matt Lind <speye...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> A lot of people don't know this, but mental ray received a HUGE update 
> last
> year with acceleration as much as 20x for global illumination and related.
> The version that ships with Softimage didn't receive this update, of
> course.
>
> After acquiring mental ray, Nvidia let it rot for a few years before
> deciding they should put effort into it after all, then put significant
> work
> into it, but not until after many people went to other options.
>
> As much flak as people put towards mental ray, it's actually a very good
> renderer, but it requires you have knowledge of raytracing algorithms to
> make best use of it.  The problem is most users only used the interactive
> version which was hamstrung by the XSI interface which created most of the
> problems related to crashing due to memory constraints and other issues.
> If
> you ever used mental ray from the command line on it's own, you'd know it
> was actually very fast and stable.  If it had continued to be included as 
> a
> standalone renderer after XSI v2.x, it would've been more popular as those
> serious about rendering would've gone to the command line and/or written
> their own scripted UI for it such as with Qt.  Classic case of marketing
> ruining a product's profitability.
>
> My only complaint as a shader writer was that mental ray was overly
> compartmentalized which sometimes made it difficult to access parts of the
> scene to create comprehensive shading effects.  What you could do with a
> single uber shader inside another renderer, required teamwork between
> multiple smaller shaders in mental ray.  It was also not documented very
> well in the advanced areas.  You had to really figure it out on your own.
> While the documentation was accurate, a lot of it didn't make sense until
> you already know how the renderer worked.  But once you did, you had a lot
> of power at your finger tips.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:01:52 +0100
> From: Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: end of another era
> To: Anto Matkovic <a...@matkovic.com>, "Official Softimage Users
>
> MR wasn't heaven, but it's again another widely used abandonned software.
> Of course the provider will never tell the user that he has stop its
> development, no, instead the users finds out waiting months, then years,
> that nothing happen or changed on the platform he thinks everything is
> fine.
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>



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Re: end of another era

[Mirko Jankovic]

in this case, in the end math is the end ;)
ᐧ

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Because, in the end Mirko, math is freedom ;)
>
> 2017-11-21 17:12 GMT+01:00 Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com>:
>
>> So in a nutshell same  with maya you need team of TDs, programmers and
>> tech support to actually use it to full potential.
>> And someone wonders why it was pushed back so fast with other solutions?
>> WHY would anyone have to go into knowing complex math behind the hub
>> instead of actually focusing on what he should do make pretty images...
>> ᐧ
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Matt Lind <speye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A lot of people don't know this, but mental ray received a HUGE update
>>> last
>>> year with acceleration as much as 20x for global illumination and
>>> related.
>>> The version that ships with Softimage didn't receive this update, of
>>> course.
>>>
>>> After acquiring mental ray, Nvidia let it rot for a few years before
>>> deciding they should put effort into it after all, then put significant
>>> work
>>> into it, but not until after many people went to other options.
>>>
>>> As much flak as people put towards mental ray, it's actually a very good
>>> renderer, but it requires you have knowledge of raytracing algorithms to
>>> make best use of it.  The problem is most users only used the interactive
>>> version which was hamstrung by the XSI interface which created most of
>>> the
>>> problems related to crashing due to memory constraints and other
>>> issues.  If
>>> you ever used mental ray from the command line on it's own, you'd know it
>>> was actually very fast and stable.  If it had continued to be included
>>> as a
>>> standalone renderer after XSI v2.x, it would've been more popular as
>>> those
>>> serious about rendering would've gone to the command line and/or written
>>> their own scripted UI for it such as with Qt.  Classic case of marketing
>>> ruining a product's profitability.
>>>
>>> My only complaint as a shader writer was that mental ray was overly
>>> compartmentalized which sometimes made it difficult to access parts of
>>> the
>>> scene to create comprehensive shading effects.  What you could do with a
>>> single uber shader inside another renderer, required teamwork between
>>> multiple smaller shaders in mental ray.  It was also not documented very
>>> well in the advanced areas.  You had to really figure it out on your own.
>>> While the documentation was accurate, a lot of it didn't make sense until
>>> you already know how the renderer worked.  But once you did, you had a
>>> lot
>>> of power at your finger tips.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:01:52 +0100
>>> From: Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: end of another era
>>> To: Anto Matkovic <a...@matkovic.com>, "Official Softimage Users
>>>
>>> MR wasn't heaven, but it's again another widely used abandonned software.
>>> Of course the provider will never tell the user that he has stop its
>>> development, no, instead the users finds out waiting months, then years,
>>> that nothing happen or changed on the platform he thinks everything is
>>> fine.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mirko Jankovic
>> *https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com_mirko-2Djankovic=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=qhcuSeM93npOYHb23bYnv4-tOi45rZNoUtfdrKhbS5I=QHgC4Nnnx-HZKcoHSZcjptdfdpDTW7ij0s5vaCuZgOg=
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com_mirko-2Djankovic=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=TYkLqOztz1pMrehKIaRumz6JhntJjQjHv4bFhmqaE60=mTuAUFjEbMO5EHCskfL1UdDdCmXrmRo-stMb8uCvw60=>*
>>
>> Need to find freelancers fast?
>> www.cgfolio.com
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=TYkLqOztz1pMrehKIaRumz6JhntJjQjHv4bFhmq

Re: end of another era

[Olivier Jeannel]

Because, in the end Mirko, math is freedom ;)

2017-11-21 17:12 GMT+01:00 Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com>:

> So in a nutshell same  with maya you need team of TDs, programmers and
> tech support to actually use it to full potential.
> And someone wonders why it was pushed back so fast with other solutions?
> WHY would anyone have to go into knowing complex math behind the hub
> instead of actually focusing on what he should do make pretty images...
> ᐧ
>
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Matt Lind <speye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> A lot of people don't know this, but mental ray received a HUGE update
>> last
>> year with acceleration as much as 20x for global illumination and related.
>> The version that ships with Softimage didn't receive this update, of
>> course.
>>
>> After acquiring mental ray, Nvidia let it rot for a few years before
>> deciding they should put effort into it after all, then put significant
>> work
>> into it, but not until after many people went to other options.
>>
>> As much flak as people put towards mental ray, it's actually a very good
>> renderer, but it requires you have knowledge of raytracing algorithms to
>> make best use of it.  The problem is most users only used the interactive
>> version which was hamstrung by the XSI interface which created most of the
>> problems related to crashing due to memory constraints and other issues.
>> If
>> you ever used mental ray from the command line on it's own, you'd know it
>> was actually very fast and stable.  If it had continued to be included as
>> a
>> standalone renderer after XSI v2.x, it would've been more popular as those
>> serious about rendering would've gone to the command line and/or written
>> their own scripted UI for it such as with Qt.  Classic case of marketing
>> ruining a product's profitability.
>>
>> My only complaint as a shader writer was that mental ray was overly
>> compartmentalized which sometimes made it difficult to access parts of the
>> scene to create comprehensive shading effects.  What you could do with a
>> single uber shader inside another renderer, required teamwork between
>> multiple smaller shaders in mental ray.  It was also not documented very
>> well in the advanced areas.  You had to really figure it out on your own.
>> While the documentation was accurate, a lot of it didn't make sense until
>> you already know how the renderer worked.  But once you did, you had a lot
>> of power at your finger tips.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:01:52 +0100
>> From: Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: end of another era
>> To: Anto Matkovic <a...@matkovic.com>, "Official Softimage Users
>>
>> MR wasn't heaven, but it's again another widely used abandonned software.
>> Of course the provider will never tell the user that he has stop its
>> development, no, instead the users finds out waiting months, then years,
>> that nothing happen or changed on the platform he thinks everything is
>> fine.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Mirko Jankovic
> *https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com_mirko-2Djankovic=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=1LVQ1fz-pV_hrx-RB7SBj3VwzuxeBqpjvexrXcBNXDw=FFtoPIKXkac_oAVzZGt17UhDu2N9v1rOqLAVYOhqq_I=
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com_mirko-2Djankovic=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=TYkLqOztz1pMrehKIaRumz6JhntJjQjHv4bFhmqaE60=mTuAUFjEbMO5EHCskfL1UdDdCmXrmRo-stMb8uCvw60=>*
>
> Need to find freelancers fast?
> www.cgfolio.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=TYkLqOztz1pMrehKIaRumz6JhntJjQjHv4bFhmqaE60=moCWsaxEFYrCEtaTgmMlYJ8KJKVrkbZKnVyyH2eXoog=>
>
> Need some help with rendering an Redshift project?
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpuoven.com_=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=1LVQ1fz-pV_hrx-RB7SBj3VwzuxeBqpjvexrXcBNXDw=7HKyQcJCT8rXKCAQXtm6l6A4FtdsSAcCbDsbrUHhN4o=
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpuoven.com_=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=TYkLqOztz1pMrehKIaRumz6JhntJjQjHv4bFhmqaE60=NAtYcc6R8zOUbG6KJl8WvG0xPwqn3Y57bWsNre6dm1E=>
>
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> Softimage Mailing List.
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
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Re: end of another era

[Mirko Jankovic]

So in a nutshell same  with maya you need team of TDs, programmers and tech
support to actually use it to full potential.
And someone wonders why it was pushed back so fast with other solutions?
WHY would anyone have to go into knowing complex math behind the hub
instead of actually focusing on what he should do make pretty images...
ᐧ

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Matt Lind <speye...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> A lot of people don't know this, but mental ray received a HUGE update last
> year with acceleration as much as 20x for global illumination and related.
> The version that ships with Softimage didn't receive this update, of
> course.
>
> After acquiring mental ray, Nvidia let it rot for a few years before
> deciding they should put effort into it after all, then put significant
> work
> into it, but not until after many people went to other options.
>
> As much flak as people put towards mental ray, it's actually a very good
> renderer, but it requires you have knowledge of raytracing algorithms to
> make best use of it.  The problem is most users only used the interactive
> version which was hamstrung by the XSI interface which created most of the
> problems related to crashing due to memory constraints and other issues.
> If
> you ever used mental ray from the command line on it's own, you'd know it
> was actually very fast and stable.  If it had continued to be included as a
> standalone renderer after XSI v2.x, it would've been more popular as those
> serious about rendering would've gone to the command line and/or written
> their own scripted UI for it such as with Qt.  Classic case of marketing
> ruining a product's profitability.
>
> My only complaint as a shader writer was that mental ray was overly
> compartmentalized which sometimes made it difficult to access parts of the
> scene to create comprehensive shading effects.  What you could do with a
> single uber shader inside another renderer, required teamwork between
> multiple smaller shaders in mental ray.  It was also not documented very
> well in the advanced areas.  You had to really figure it out on your own.
> While the documentation was accurate, a lot of it didn't make sense until
> you already know how the renderer worked.  But once you did, you had a lot
> of power at your finger tips.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:01:52 +0100
> From: Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: end of another era
> To: Anto Matkovic <a...@matkovic.com>, "Official Softimage Users
>
> MR wasn't heaven, but it's again another widely used abandonned software.
> Of course the provider will never tell the user that he has stop its
> development, no, instead the users finds out waiting months, then years,
> that nothing happen or changed on the platform he thinks everything is
> fine.
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>



-- 
Mirko Jankovic
*https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com_mirko-2Djankovic=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=TYkLqOztz1pMrehKIaRumz6JhntJjQjHv4bFhmqaE60=mTuAUFjEbMO5EHCskfL1UdDdCmXrmRo-stMb8uCvw60=
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com_mirko-2Djankovic=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=TYkLqOztz1pMrehKIaRumz6JhntJjQjHv4bFhmqaE60=mTuAUFjEbMO5EHCskfL1UdDdCmXrmRo-stMb8uCvw60=>*

Need to find freelancers fast?
www.cgfolio.com

Need some help with rendering an Redshift project?
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Re: end of another era

[Matt Lind]

Surprisingly, writing a toon shader isn't as difficult as you'd think.  Like 
any good tool, the trick is understanding the user's needs and workflow. 
That's what the toon shaders got right compared to other solutions, such as 
ability to hide ink line seams of intersecting surfaces.  There are also 
many undocumented features in the toon shaders inherited from mental ray for 
free, such as texturing ink lines.


Matt




Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:17:16 +
From: Matt Morris <matt...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: end of another era

Still find myself using Mr when a toon shading job comes along. Hopefully
Arnold's new shaders will be up to scratch!


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Re: end of another era

[Matt Lind]

A lot of people don't know this, but mental ray received a HUGE update last 
year with acceleration as much as 20x for global illumination and related. 
The version that ships with Softimage didn't receive this update, of course.

After acquiring mental ray, Nvidia let it rot for a few years before 
deciding they should put effort into it after all, then put significant work 
into it, but not until after many people went to other options.

As much flak as people put towards mental ray, it's actually a very good 
renderer, but it requires you have knowledge of raytracing algorithms to 
make best use of it.  The problem is most users only used the interactive 
version which was hamstrung by the XSI interface which created most of the 
problems related to crashing due to memory constraints and other issues.  If 
you ever used mental ray from the command line on it's own, you'd know it 
was actually very fast and stable.  If it had continued to be included as a 
standalone renderer after XSI v2.x, it would've been more popular as those 
serious about rendering would've gone to the command line and/or written 
their own scripted UI for it such as with Qt.  Classic case of marketing 
ruining a product's profitability.

My only complaint as a shader writer was that mental ray was overly 
compartmentalized which sometimes made it difficult to access parts of the 
scene to create comprehensive shading effects.  What you could do with a 
single uber shader inside another renderer, required teamwork between 
multiple smaller shaders in mental ray.  It was also not documented very 
well in the advanced areas.  You had to really figure it out on your own. 
While the documentation was accurate, a lot of it didn't make sense until 
you already know how the renderer worked.  But once you did, you had a lot 
of power at your finger tips.

Matt



Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:01:52 +0100
From: Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: end of another era
To: Anto Matkovic <a...@matkovic.com>, "Official Softimage Users

MR wasn't heaven, but it's again another widely used abandonned software.
Of course the provider will never tell the user that he has stop its
development, no, instead the users finds out waiting months, then years,
that nothing happen or changed on the platform he thinks everything is fine.


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"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

Re: end of another era

[Saeed Kalhor]

I just started to learn Houdini, it's awesome software. But it needs a lot
of time to learn!

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 4:13 AM, Anto Matkovic <a...@matkovic.com> wrote:

> Houdini Mantra has a nice capabilities here, from different sampling
> methods for volume and hard surfaces, to full GI. Has zero problems with
> overlapping volumes of different types, as you wish...
> *From:* Saeed Kalhor <ndman...@gmail.com>
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_=DwIBaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=wu25YQhZ799pMkliwLZInlgC0XnZ5U1RmLWa6zNRmVE=KT2hyvGfL3afr9YyPC5Y_kS9OqqTfM5whWDDea-Rcq0=
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 2:04 PM
> *Subject:* Re: end of another era
>
> Yup, I know and I use it a lot. But for rendering volumetrics still it is
> one of the fastest!
>
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
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Re: end of another era

[Olivier Jeannel]

MR wasn't heaven, but it's again another widely used abandonned software.
Of course the provider will never tell the user that he has stop its
development, no, instead the users finds out waiting months, then years,
that nothing happen or changed on the platform he thinks everything is fine.

2017-11-21 1:43 GMT+01:00 Anto Matkovic <a...@matkovic.com>:

> Houdini Mantra has a nice capabilities here, from different sampling
> methods for volume and hard surfaces, to full GI. Has zero problems with
> overlapping volumes of different types, as you wish...
> *From:* Saeed Kalhor <ndman...@gmail.com>
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_=DwIBaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=cRzAU2U_phd7_ywDPBf0Ax9SlFJzqiKcMVK-iyaSpxc=l-rjnQ-sn_ydjnencr-mt3bBdBbeyg38ZqAb1YSDgKE=
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 2:04 PM
> *Subject:* Re: end of another era
>
> Yup, I know and I use it a lot. But for rendering volumetrics still it is
> one of the fastest!
>
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
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Re: end of another era

[Anto Matkovic]

Houdini Mantra has a nice capabilities here, from different sampling methods 
for volume and hard surfaces, to full GI. Has zero problems with overlapping 
volumes of different types, as you wish...From: Saeed Kalhor 
<ndman...@gmail.com>
 To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwICaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=XpI3rtK8WHd1LpoUiJsC_M2xREXaD9M_f0rR2T31tB8=OjhOuzQXL1oAK0ohQxpb1cJzok20QhBzZJ5rrWhRluY=
 <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> 
 Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 2:04 PM
 Subject: Re: end of another era
   
Yup, I know and I use it a lot. But for rendering volumetrics still it is one 
of the fastest!

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Re: end of another era

[Angus Davidson]

No Imagine that, but with students ;)

Not going back from Octane.

From: Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "softimage@listproc.autodesk.com" <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Date: Monday, 20 November 2017 at 3:39 PM
To: "softimage@listproc.autodesk.com" <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: end of another era

Sleepless nights waiting for render and crashes to restart again for thing that 
needs to be done in the morning.. nothing to have fond memories off.
That crash fest made me hate rendering.
Honestly Redshift turned back on that fire.
So sorry for those who have any fond memory of mray but from me.. so long and 
good riddance
ᐧ

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Jonathan Moore 
<jonathan.moo...@gmail.com<mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
For some, I don't think nostalgia is in the picture here when it comes to 
Mental Ray. If you're not looking for a facsimile of physical reality from 
you're renderer, Mental Ray has a lot of tricks up it's sleeves that make it 
even faster than Redshift, never mind Arnold. Obviously for path tracing, the 
new breed offer far faster results.

It seems that we've been chasing physically based rendering results for so long 
we've forgotten there are other things a renderer should be capable of.

On 20 November 2017 at 13:10, Andres Stephens 
<drais...@outlook.com<mailto:drais...@outlook.com>> wrote:
Sometimes I could optimize MR and use it for more graphical things that would 
do me better than Arnold and it's noise..
-Draise
+57 3138116821<tel:+57%20313%208116821>


From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>>
 on behalf of Sven Constable 
<sixsi_l...@imagefront.de<mailto:sixsi_l...@imagefront.de>>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 8:07:23 AM
To: 'Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwIGaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=rwRmaJ1GQRqMXPr_EttOb7qkt2fIQRSI87aH1bQWtCs=XxVgF1npipWhJ_HU8_VN73aM4EfynI3T3tYj5F9eF-I=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=ymlCs-pj4K2TeW_QovEVqPpX0eO554UMl3JW5OaLdE4=FE9wQ8mgmsiXI28z2JC8_ORsATAMZ52WvDBI8ldv0lQ=>'
Subject: RE: end of another era

Really? I would think there is no case that a frame in Arnold tooks this longer 
than MR. Given the same techniques were used and you have the same knowledge of 
both.

From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>]
 On Behalf Of Saeed Kalhor
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 1:54 PM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwIGaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=rwRmaJ1GQRqMXPr_EttOb7qkt2fIQRSI87aH1bQWtCs=XxVgF1npipWhJ_HU8_VN73aM4EfynI3T3tYj5F9eF-I=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=ymlCs-pj4K2TeW_QovEVqPpX0eO554UMl3JW5OaLdE4=FE9wQ8mgmsiXI28z2JC8_ORsATAMZ52WvDBI8ldv0lQ=>
Subject: Re: end of another era

So sad :(
I've just done a project using this render engine in which each 2k frame with 
film production quality took 6 min to be rendered by a single Intel 4790k CPU. 
But each frame needs more than 1 hour to be rendered by Arnold renderer.

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Jonathan Moore 
<jonathan.moo...@gmail.com<mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The people that will most definitely be missing Mental Ray are those that use 
it's excellent toon shading capabilities. In this new fangled world of 
'physically based rendering', NPR shading has seen no real attention from the 
majority of the new players.

On 20 November 2017 at 12:02, Sven Constable 
<sixsi_l...@imagefront.de<mailto:sixsi_l...@imagefront.de>> wrote:
Well, it was a long time. Goodbye my old, slow, buggy, picky, delicate and 
crash prone friend. :) On the other side, I'm working with MR at the moment.

From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>]
 On Behalf Of adrian wyer
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 11:49 AM
To: 'Official Softimage Users Mailin

Re: end of another era

[Mirko Jankovic]

Sleepless nights waiting for render and crashes to restart again for thing
that needs to be done in the morning.. nothing to have fond memories off.
That crash fest made me hate rendering.
Honestly Redshift turned back on that fire.
So sorry for those who have any fond memory of mray but from me.. so long
and good riddance
ᐧ

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> For some, I don't think nostalgia is in the picture here when it comes to
> Mental Ray. If you're not looking for a facsimile of physical reality from
> you're renderer, Mental Ray has a lot of tricks up it's sleeves that make
> it even faster than Redshift, never mind Arnold. Obviously for path
> tracing, the new breed offer far faster results.
>
> It seems that we've been chasing physically based rendering results for so
> long we've forgotten there are other things a renderer should be capable of.
>
> On 20 November 2017 at 13:10, Andres Stephens <drais...@outlook.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Sometimes I could optimize MR and use it for more graphical things that
>> would do me better than Arnold and it's noise..
>>
>> -Draise
>> +57 3138116821 <+57%20313%208116821>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com <
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Sven Constable <
>> sixsi_l...@imagefront.de>
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 8:07:23 AM
>> *To:* 'Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=qpa8hJAMGFEH0mxqOa3vzTin_-j7S4mXjpUq8aRaRwQ=tds2QqKHzDC8gjSohLO82pQtrsm6DKoQEg9rATpYcqY=
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=ymlCs-pj4K2TeW_QovEVqPpX0eO554UMl3JW5OaLdE4=FE9wQ8mgmsiXI28z2JC8_ORsATAMZ52WvDBI8ldv0lQ=>
>> '
>> *Subject:* RE: end of another era
>>
>>
>> Really? I would think there is no case that a frame in Arnold tooks this
>> longer than MR. Given the same techniques were used and you have the same
>> knowledge of both.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Saeed Kalhor
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 1:54 PM
>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=qpa8hJAMGFEH0mxqOa3vzTin_-j7S4mXjpUq8aRaRwQ=tds2QqKHzDC8gjSohLO82pQtrsm6DKoQEg9rATpYcqY=
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=ymlCs-pj4K2TeW_QovEVqPpX0eO554UMl3JW5OaLdE4=FE9wQ8mgmsiXI28z2JC8_ORsATAMZ52WvDBI8ldv0lQ=>
>> *Subject:* Re: end of another era
>>
>>
>>
>> So sad :(
>> I've just done a project using this render engine in which each 2k frame
>> with film production quality took 6 min to be rendered by a single Intel
>> 4790k CPU. But each frame needs more than 1 hour to be rendered by Arnold
>> renderer.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Jonathan Moore <
>> jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The people that will most definitely be missing Mental Ray are those that
>> use it's excellent toon shading capabilities. In this new fangled world of
>> 'physically based rendering', NPR shading has seen no real attention from
>> the majority of the new players.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 November 2017 at 12:02, Sven Constable <sixsi_l...@imagefront.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Well, it was a long time. Goodbye my old, slow, buggy, picky, delicate
>> and crash prone friend. :) On the other side, I'm working with MR at the
>> moment.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *adrian wyer
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 11:49 AM
>> *To:* 'Official Softimage Users Mailing 
>> List.https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=qpa8hJAMGFEH0mxqOa3vzTin_-j7S4mXjpUq8aRaRwQ=nsywbDZawo1kYytuWWOF6pW4YEU3UszbtS9Ea5W99zw=
&g

Re: end of another era

[Jonathan Moore]

For some, I don't think nostalgia is in the picture here when it comes to
Mental Ray. If you're not looking for a facsimile of physical reality from
you're renderer, Mental Ray has a lot of tricks up it's sleeves that make
it even faster than Redshift, never mind Arnold. Obviously for path
tracing, the new breed offer far faster results.

It seems that we've been chasing physically based rendering results for so
long we've forgotten there are other things a renderer should be capable of.

On 20 November 2017 at 13:10, Andres Stephens <drais...@outlook.com> wrote:

> Sometimes I could optimize MR and use it for more graphical things that
> would do me better than Arnold and it's noise..
>
> -Draise
> +57 3138116821 <+57%20313%208116821>
>
> --
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com <
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Sven Constable <
> sixsi_l...@imagefront.de>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 8:07:23 AM
> *To:* 'Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=ymlCs-pj4K2TeW_QovEVqPpX0eO554UMl3JW5OaLdE4=1PGBRN-3CNK_LPwqhYmjFNMdZjBf6ZUVQfMRO0tCNSQ=
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list'
> *Subject:* RE: end of another era
>
>
> Really? I would think there is no case that a frame in Arnold tooks this
> longer than MR. Given the same techniques were used and you have the same
> knowledge of both.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
> listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Saeed Kalhor
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 1:54 PM
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=ymlCs-pj4K2TeW_QovEVqPpX0eO554UMl3JW5OaLdE4=1PGBRN-3CNK_LPwqhYmjFNMdZjBf6ZUVQfMRO0tCNSQ=
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list
> *Subject:* Re: end of another era
>
>
>
> So sad :(
> I've just done a project using this render engine in which each 2k frame
> with film production quality took 6 min to be rendered by a single Intel
> 4790k CPU. But each frame needs more than 1 hour to be rendered by Arnold
> renderer.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> The people that will most definitely be missing Mental Ray are those that
> use it's excellent toon shading capabilities. In this new fangled world of
> 'physically based rendering', NPR shading has seen no real attention from
> the majority of the new players.
>
>
>
> On 20 November 2017 at 12:02, Sven Constable <sixsi_l...@imagefront.de>
> wrote:
>
> Well, it was a long time. Goodbye my old, slow, buggy, picky, delicate and
> crash prone friend. :) On the other side, I'm working with MR at the moment.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
> listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *adrian wyer
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 11:49 AM
> *To:* 'Official Softimage Users Mailing 
> List.https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=ymlCs-pj4K2TeW_QovEVqPpX0eO554UMl3JW5OaLdE4=ATGgi49oBaeE1absIa0jRWr-tIw90kV8PJu91jOatN0=.
> com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=DNPJQm1x_ADDo-EK-DJSzo--DVevHBDqxAGDxKr3zPA=C0nnjDYUSNhiY25tCCOgh1A4SGHkRnwQ0_St6dhvgE4=>
> '
> *Subject:* end of another era
>
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgchannel.com_2017_11_nvidia-2Ddiscontinues-2Dmental-2Dray_=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=ymlCs-pj4K2TeW_QovEVqPpX0eO554UMl3JW5OaLdE4=tjfpowHbhIugUOhOwoqk2fJsD-E-IAfxey0AuwQ3scA=
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgchannel.com_2017_11_nvidia-2Ddiscontinues-2Dmental-2Dray_=DwMFAg=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=o_fy1BnAZ9SiGze3mrMfkTlWTFcUYxVQrGNHlkdEuo0=wn4RqEBYUbzXfzay-2maSbty2-IE_FLyyFRVbNiwhJc=>
>
>
>
> not with a bang, but with a whimper.
>
>
>
> a
>
>
>
> Adrian Wyer
> Fluid Pictures
> 4th Floor
> 4 Bath Place
> Rivington Street
> London
> EC2A 3DR
> ++44(0) 207 684 5575 <+44%2020%207684%205575>
>
>
> adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com
>
> www.fluid-pictures.

RE: end of another era

[Andres Stephens]

Sometimes I could optimize MR and use it for more graphical things that would 
do me better than Arnold and it's noise..

-Draise
+57 3138116821


From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Sven Constable 
<sixsi_l...@imagefront.de>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 8:07:23 AM
To: 'Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwIFAg=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=FK0DOUC7bd_3V1GLSXtY_XTsvRPuk_FO8nzQGI6pxxU=GsNGh0F9lDa0HCZoItyN6iU7_fSwtfjP48D9L7i7Tmo='
Subject: RE: end of another era

Really? I would think there is no case that a frame in Arnold tooks this longer 
than MR. Given the same techniques were used and you have the same knowledge of 
both.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Saeed Kalhor
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 1:54 PM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwIFAg=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=FK0DOUC7bd_3V1GLSXtY_XTsvRPuk_FO8nzQGI6pxxU=GsNGh0F9lDa0HCZoItyN6iU7_fSwtfjP48D9L7i7Tmo=
Subject: Re: end of another era

So sad :(
I've just done a project using this render engine in which each 2k frame with 
film production quality took 6 min to be rendered by a single Intel 4790k CPU. 
But each frame needs more than 1 hour to be rendered by Arnold renderer.

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Jonathan Moore 
<jonathan.moo...@gmail.com<mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The people that will most definitely be missing Mental Ray are those that use 
it's excellent toon shading capabilities. In this new fangled world of 
'physically based rendering', NPR shading has seen no real attention from the 
majority of the new players.

On 20 November 2017 at 12:02, Sven Constable 
<sixsi_l...@imagefront.de<mailto:sixsi_l...@imagefront.de>> wrote:
Well, it was a long time. Goodbye my old, slow, buggy, picky, delicate and 
crash prone friend. :) On the other side, I'm working with MR at the moment.

From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>]
 On Behalf Of adrian wyer
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 11:49 AM
To: 'Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwIFAg=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=FK0DOUC7bd_3V1GLSXtY_XTsvRPuk_FO8nzQGI6pxxU=GsNGh0F9lDa0HCZoItyN6iU7_fSwtfjP48D9L7i7Tmo=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=DNPJQm1x_ADDo-EK-DJSzo--DVevHBDqxAGDxKr3zPA=C0nnjDYUSNhiY25tCCOgh1A4SGHkRnwQ0_St6dhvgE4=>'
Subject: end of another era

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgchannel.com_2017_11_nvidia-2Ddiscontinues-2Dmental-2Dray_=DwIFAg=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=FK0DOUC7bd_3V1GLSXtY_XTsvRPuk_FO8nzQGI6pxxU=CpgxndvdjfRfiXu13CtsbpgDPEybz5jJCnHM5ns0EBY=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgchannel.com_2017_11_nvidia-2Ddiscontinues-2Dmental-2Dray_=DwMFAg=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=o_fy1BnAZ9SiGze3mrMfkTlWTFcUYxVQrGNHlkdEuo0=wn4RqEBYUbzXfzay-2maSbty2-IE_FLyyFRVbNiwhJc=>

not with a bang, but with a whimper.

a

Adrian Wyer
Fluid Pictures
4th Floor
4 Bath Place
Rivington Street
London
EC2A 3DR
++44(0) 207 684 5575<tel:+44%2020%207684%205575>

adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com<mailto:adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com>
www.fluid-pictures.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fluid-2Dpictures.com=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=3gPb5DzMF9DDqdFV0CrN042qKOlTSM_VctDLyzld-cQ=hRFfikL4JpeHvuXD4Vu4_j7hnpjfi73swt94TyoC3Hc=>

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RE: end of another era

[Sven Constable]

Really? I would think there is no case that a frame in Arnold tooks this longer 
than MR. Given the same techniques were used and you have the same knowledge of 
both.

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Saeed Kalhor
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 1:54 PM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=3gPb5DzMF9DDqdFV0CrN042qKOlTSM_VctDLyzld-cQ=mTH2pavLK56SIZoyEILrTxgs2Sl1JDnJ0gHVvIWVXXU=
Subject: Re: end of another era

 

So sad :(
I've just done a project using this render engine in which each 2k frame with 
film production quality took 6 min to be rendered by a single Intel 4790k CPU. 
But each frame needs more than 1 hour to be rendered by Arnold renderer.

 

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

The people that will most definitely be missing Mental Ray are those that use 
it's excellent toon shading capabilities. In this new fangled world of 
'physically based rendering', NPR shading has seen no real attention from the 
majority of the new players.

 

On 20 November 2017 at 12:02, Sven Constable <sixsi_l...@imagefront.de> wrote:

Well, it was a long time. Goodbye my old, slow, buggy, picky, delicate and 
crash prone friend. :) On the other side, I'm working with MR at the moment.

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of adrian wyer
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 11:49 AM
To: 'Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=3gPb5DzMF9DDqdFV0CrN042qKOlTSM_VctDLyzld-cQ=mTH2pavLK56SIZoyEILrTxgs2Sl1JDnJ0gHVvIWVXXU=
 
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=DNPJQm1x_ADDo-EK-DJSzo--DVevHBDqxAGDxKr3zPA=C0nnjDYUSNhiY25tCCOgh1A4SGHkRnwQ0_St6dhvgE4=>
 '
Subject: end of another era

 

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgchannel.com_2017_11_nvidia-2Ddiscontinues-2Dmental-2Dray_=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=3gPb5DzMF9DDqdFV0CrN042qKOlTSM_VctDLyzld-cQ=Zj3AE6yGfuG6K7LMtYqt4vwGD0x4iLNyp_XgDjAEpug=
 
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgchannel.com_2017_11_nvidia-2Ddiscontinues-2Dmental-2Dray_=DwMFAg=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=o_fy1BnAZ9SiGze3mrMfkTlWTFcUYxVQrGNHlkdEuo0=wn4RqEBYUbzXfzay-2maSbty2-IE_FLyyFRVbNiwhJc=>
 

 

not with a bang, but with a whimper.

 

a

 

Adrian Wyer
Fluid Pictures
4th Floor
4 Bath Place
Rivington Street
London
EC2A 3DR 
++44(0) <tel:+44%2020%207684%205575>  207 684 5575 


adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com

www.fluid-pictures.com 

 

Fluid Pictures Limited is registered in England and Wales.
Company number:5657815
VAT number: 872 6893 71

 

 

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Re: end of another era

[Saeed Kalhor]

Yup, I know and I use it a lot. But for rendering volumetrics still it is
one of the fastest!

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Mirko Jankovic 
wrote:

> So then try redshift and have each frame done in couple seconds ;)
> Move forward :))
> ᐧ
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Saeed Kalhor  wrote:
>
>> So sad :(
>> I've just done a project using this render engine in which each 2k frame
>> with film production quality took 6 min to be rendered by a single Intel
>> 4790k CPU. But each frame needs more than 1 hour to be rendered by Arnold
>> renderer.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Jonathan Moore <
>> jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The people that will most definitely be missing Mental Ray are those
>>> that use it's excellent toon shading capabilities. In this new fangled
>>> world of 'physically based rendering', NPR shading has seen no real
>>> attention from the majority of the new players.
>>>
>>> On 20 November 2017 at 12:02, Sven Constable 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Well, it was a long time. Goodbye my old, slow, buggy, picky, delicate
 and crash prone friend. :) On the other side, I'm working with MR at the
 moment.



 *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
 softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *adrian wyer
 *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 11:49 AM
 *To:* 'Official Softimage Users Mailing 
 List.https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=LrcVBwDQcNB22lJTi5eBet-PsDlalAO7eDsEKAnADYc=8VJfy7x2Xz1Cwxlan4jqjmAULGMrAO9SyIc9oGdStxA=
 /forum/#!forum/xsi_list
 
 '
 *Subject:* end of another era



 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgchannel.com_2017_11_nvidia-2Ddiscontinues-2Dmental-2Dray_=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=LrcVBwDQcNB22lJTi5eBet-PsDlalAO7eDsEKAnADYc=pOUfyQ1yAp8YiZx-DZmclODcI6js8-PQJz_cshjb2Ao=
 



 not with a bang, but with a whimper.



 a



 Adrian Wyer
 Fluid Pictures
 4th Floor
 4 Bath Place
 Rivington Street
 London
 EC2A 3DR
 ++44(0) 207 684 5575 <+44%2020%207684%205575>


 adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com

 www.fluid-pictures.com



 Fluid Pictures Limited is registered in England and Wales.
 Company number:5657815
 VAT number: 872 6893 71



 --
 Softimage Mailing List.
 To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
 with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Mirko Jankovic
> *https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com_mirko-2Djankovic=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=LrcVBwDQcNB22lJTi5eBet-PsDlalAO7eDsEKAnADYc=1guyl0KApBHBGZN9DRSN-su4IfiRapbEYf8Ixkh8nFM=
> *
>
> Need to find freelancers fast?
> www.cgfolio.com
> 
>
> Need some help with rendering an Redshift project?
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpuoven.com_=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=LrcVBwDQcNB22lJTi5eBet-PsDlalAO7eDsEKAnADYc=wkTDov3VLo8Cp6M1EAfGTEuOz3rI7r29SCYDKeohf1s=
> 

Re: end of another era

[Mirko Jankovic]

So then try redshift and have each frame done in couple seconds ;)
Move forward :))
ᐧ

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Saeed Kalhor  wrote:

> So sad :(
> I've just done a project using this render engine in which each 2k frame
> with film production quality took 6 min to be rendered by a single Intel
> 4790k CPU. But each frame needs more than 1 hour to be rendered by Arnold
> renderer.
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Jonathan Moore  > wrote:
>
>> The people that will most definitely be missing Mental Ray are those that
>> use it's excellent toon shading capabilities. In this new fangled world of
>> 'physically based rendering', NPR shading has seen no real attention from
>> the majority of the new players.
>>
>> On 20 November 2017 at 12:02, Sven Constable 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, it was a long time. Goodbye my old, slow, buggy, picky, delicate
>>> and crash prone friend. :) On the other side, I'm working with MR at the
>>> moment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *adrian wyer
>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 11:49 AM
>>> *To:* 'Official Softimage Users Mailing 
>>> List.https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=WZFtauyZronC0WlwCHYVV8xxysG08EAJmvIyHUhGKwM=ptaW5K21mC9_NMEH2MYpXc0lHoPj26SPM_nzGMCb5p8=
>>> /forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>>> 
>>> '
>>> *Subject:* end of another era
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgchannel.com_2017_11_nvidia-2Ddiscontinues-2Dmental-2Dray_=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=WZFtauyZronC0WlwCHYVV8xxysG08EAJmvIyHUhGKwM=y_Wj3-6rjxIDYVnNt_cHY_Haz0KmQyXrqu17Dh4HxbU=
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> not with a bang, but with a whimper.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Adrian Wyer
>>> Fluid Pictures
>>> 4th Floor
>>> 4 Bath Place
>>> Rivington Street
>>> London
>>> EC2A 3DR
>>> ++44(0) 207 684 5575 <+44%2020%207684%205575>
>>>
>>>
>>> adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com
>>>
>>> www.fluid-pictures.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fluid Pictures Limited is registered in England and Wales.
>>> Company number:5657815
>>> VAT number: 872 6893 71
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>



-- 
Mirko Jankovic
*https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com_mirko-2Djankovic=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=WZFtauyZronC0WlwCHYVV8xxysG08EAJmvIyHUhGKwM=NpVolPiwlaGSELp4QOhrn6oyVEUdoYAUTbPNEafp9uY=
*

Need to find freelancers fast?
www.cgfolio.com

Need some help with rendering an Redshift project?
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpuoven.com_=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=WZFtauyZronC0WlwCHYVV8xxysG08EAJmvIyHUhGKwM=j8wGEi8MfKg4tVOCWBJu0E_fFItuoN-7INBqh8tt6T8=
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Re: end of another era

[Saeed Kalhor]

So sad :(
I've just done a project using this render engine in which each 2k frame
with film production quality took 6 min to be rendered by a single Intel
4790k CPU. But each frame needs more than 1 hour to be rendered by Arnold
renderer.

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Jonathan Moore 
wrote:

> The people that will most definitely be missing Mental Ray are those that
> use it's excellent toon shading capabilities. In this new fangled world of
> 'physically based rendering', NPR shading has seen no real attention from
> the majority of the new players.
>
> On 20 November 2017 at 12:02, Sven Constable 
> wrote:
>
>> Well, it was a long time. Goodbye my old, slow, buggy, picky, delicate
>> and crash prone friend. :) On the other side, I'm working with MR at the
>> moment.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *adrian wyer
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 11:49 AM
>> *To:* 'Official Softimage Users Mailing 
>> List.https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=_7XkGJIeT0a9UPHECgPqxkzF0cbOlU5A6Vmuy9quXDw=yzqpJp9h9NtERtpFn1tarKgknvK7yHnF5VceMQoQnkQ=
>> /forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>> 
>> '
>> *Subject:* end of another era
>>
>>
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgchannel.com_2017_11_nvidia-2Ddiscontinues-2Dmental-2Dray_=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=_7XkGJIeT0a9UPHECgPqxkzF0cbOlU5A6Vmuy9quXDw=OW6C3HX6mAO5-NEoqbvcc0sOFsotJMWinYRuBbN5-5c=
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> not with a bang, but with a whimper.
>>
>>
>>
>> a
>>
>>
>>
>> Adrian Wyer
>> Fluid Pictures
>> 4th Floor
>> 4 Bath Place
>> Rivington Street
>> London
>> EC2A 3DR
>> ++44(0) 207 684 5575 <+44%2020%207684%205575>
>>
>>
>> adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com
>>
>> www.fluid-pictures.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Fluid Pictures Limited is registered in England and Wales.
>> Company number:5657815
>> VAT number: 872 6893 71
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
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Re: end of another era

[Jonathan Moore]

The people that will most definitely be missing Mental Ray are those that
use it's excellent toon shading capabilities. In this new fangled world of
'physically based rendering', NPR shading has seen no real attention from
the majority of the new players.

On 20 November 2017 at 12:02, Sven Constable 
wrote:

> Well, it was a long time. Goodbye my old, slow, buggy, picky, delicate and
> crash prone friend. :) On the other side, I'm working with MR at the moment.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
> listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *adrian wyer
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 11:49 AM
> *To:* 'Official Softimage Users Mailing 
> List.https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=DNPJQm1x_ADDo-EK-DJSzo--DVevHBDqxAGDxKr3zPA=cbZUcBFbSh5kSOitSiu-HTJNPCW1V5bmgwARsNK6po0=.
> com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list'
> *Subject:* end of another era
>
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgchannel.com_2017_11_nvidia-2Ddiscontinues-2Dmental-2Dray_=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=DNPJQm1x_ADDo-EK-DJSzo--DVevHBDqxAGDxKr3zPA=ETy_2RB-ouQlWSCqWgd4uGCRm9JDOkbDQ6j5m33Tw58=
> 
>
>
>
> not with a bang, but with a whimper.
>
>
>
> a
>
>
>
> Adrian Wyer
> Fluid Pictures
> 4th Floor
> 4 Bath Place
> Rivington Street
> London
> EC2A 3DR
> ++44(0) 207 684 5575 <+44%2020%207684%205575>
>
>
> adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com
>
> www.fluid-pictures.com
>
>
>
> Fluid Pictures Limited is registered in England and Wales.
> Company number:5657815
> VAT number: 872 6893 71
>
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
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RE: end of another era

[Sven Constable]

Well, it was a long time. Goodbye my old, slow, buggy, picky, delicate and
crash prone friend. :) On the other side, I'm working with MR at the moment.

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of adrian wyer
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 11:49 AM
To: 'Official Softimage Users Mailing
List.https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist=DwICAg=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=9EeMRECNnRaZYsY0l_E10NSMNbEjFTf4KfIYFnjcXj0=1FxVH-7buOlcG4ie4yqOIk3F90P-4u5KhhB5oi95Cw8='
Subject: end of another era

 

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgchannel.com_2017_11_nvidia-2Ddiscontinues-2Dmental-2Dray_=DwICAg=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=9EeMRECNnRaZYsY0l_E10NSMNbEjFTf4KfIYFnjcXj0=GLCuXRfIMylmTT1khPrOnoh2L0M86XpCuUP-nzv9CMU=
 

 

not with a bang, but with a whimper.

 

a

 

Adrian Wyer
Fluid Pictures
4th Floor
4 Bath Place
Rivington Street
London
EC2A 3DR 
++44(0) 207 684 5575 


adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com

www.fluid-pictures.com
  

 

Fluid Pictures Limited is registered in England and Wales.
Company number:5657815
VAT number: 872 6893 71

 

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Re: end of another era

[Jordi Bares]

Still, it is sad to see such a key component of XSI success die in such a way… 
ultimately they never got to modernise it and compete properly (for whatever 
reasons) but the truth is that it was critical to XSI’s success.

:-(
jb

> On 20 Nov 2017, at 10:52, Mirko Jankovic  wrote:
> 
> It is not like a lot of people are crying for mentalray.. like it was for 
> XSI
> ᐧ
> 
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:49 AM, adrian wyer  > wrote:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgchannel.com_2017_11_nvidia-2Ddiscontinues-2Dmental-2Dray_=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=CH8_DRk3Tx1HFi38jWyUZcEDtCOfZ8zsEytjNfKgbeg=KGZ6nm-MuWmUDhVJtFdZADnhhNzWFU4qRqUQvl1FslI=
>  
> 
>  
> 
> not with a bang, but with a whimper.
> 
>  
> 
> a
> 
>  
> 
> Adrian Wyer
> Fluid Pictures
> 4th Floor
> 4 Bath Place
> Rivington Street
> London
> EC2A 3DR 
> ++44(0) 207 684 5575  
> 
> 
> adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com 
> www.fluid-pictures.com <>
>  
> 
> Fluid Pictures Limited is registered in England and Wales.
> Company number:5657815
> VAT number: 872 6893 71
> 
>  
> 
> 
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>  with "unsubscribe" in the 
> subject, and reply to confirm.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mirko Jankovic
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com_mirko-2Djankovic=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=CH8_DRk3Tx1HFi38jWyUZcEDtCOfZ8zsEytjNfKgbeg=DIkhZilEwRMuZZ9oVbSjK1Cv3-3OPf2GWvp1n0u4_uo=
>  
> 
> 
> Need to find freelancers fast?
> www.cgfolio.com 
> 
> 
> Need some help with rendering an Redshift project?
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Re: end of another era

[Mirko Jankovic]

It is not like a lot of people are crying for mentalray.. like it was for
XSI
ᐧ

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:49 AM, adrian wyer <
adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com> wrote:

> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgchannel.com_2017_11_nvidia-2Ddiscontinues-2Dmental-2Dray_=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=6rtmyrM8zUAJcwxtZcmGbe_8TvyXJzURYKzprf5PJBo=FEj1V51qc85qDQRGFydmq2YKAzigpS96hnPVo1iiRB8=
> 
>
>
>
> not with a bang, but with a whimper.
>
>
>
> a
>
>
>
> Adrian Wyer
> Fluid Pictures
> 4th Floor
> 4 Bath Place
> Rivington Street
> London
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> www.fluid-pictures.com
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