Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
if you had ascii you could delete part of the scene file until it loads.. right now it's impossible to do that. when "merge scene" avoid the crash, the problem is usually loading the information (cameras, modes, etc) for the viewports or some other view in the layout that saves extra information in the scene. it shouldn't happen, but it's been known the happen, especially with real time shader modes I think. Saving normally the scene after merge is fine. there is a Scene Debugging tab in the user preferences with options that may help debugging more difficult crashes look especially at Load Recovery Journal File http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/index.html?url=files/userprefs519.htm,topicNumber=d30e804537,hash=WSC52E97AF964D6E4A85D54D15483CB299-0021 also http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112&id=13487723&linkID=12544120 On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Guillaume Laforge wrote: > Hi Raph, > > We all agree that ASCII file editing (like with Maya .ma) would be very > useful. > > My point was just about the crash issue. Having working with the source code > of Softimage (even if I was not a persistence specialist), I can imagine how > hard it would be to debug a crash in an ASCII scene file. By hard, I mean, > from a production point of view. Of course people are free to spend > days/weeks/months trying to debug such problem :). > >
RE: Would you like to recover your scene?
I don't think too many people would debug an ASCII scene as much as edit it so they can salvage work. The main problem with Softimage is it's file format is largely a black box and there are very few, if any, options to working around problems encountered in production when things go awry. If the SDK were fully transparent we'd have seen a number of 3rd party solutions by now, but we don't. I tried writing my own XML based file format for this project a few years ago only to run into the problem of not having enough information available to properly rebuild the scene accurately. A simple example is the movecomponent operator. All it does is apply a transformation on vertices and should be very easy to support - but it's impossible because the transformation applied by the movecomponent operator is not exposed anywhere where my code can get at it. As a result I have to either freeze construction history to remove dependencies, or force users to not use certain tools so I can parse and rebuild the scene. Freeze construction history is not really an option because when you get to envelopes, ICE, and secondary shape corrections, it's nearly impossible to guess how to reconstruct things as again, much of the required information is not exposed in the SDK. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Guillaume Laforge Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 4:26 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? Hi Raph, We all agree that ASCII file editing (like with Maya .ma) would be very useful. My point was just about the crash issue. Having working with the source code of Softimage (even if I was not a persistence specialist), I can imagine how hard it would be to debug a crash in an ASCII scene file. By hard, I mean, from a production point of view. Of course people are free to spend days/weeks/months trying to debug such problem :). On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Raffaele Fragapane mailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com>> wrote: There's actually a surprising number of issues that you can spot right away when you have an ascii file that don't involve the kind of ASCII search that feels like picking fleas off a wolf. Scene bloat, something Maya suffers for enormously but Soft isn't exactly immune to, is just one of many examples where if you have an ascii file finding the recurring pattern of orphaned data is easy and can bring a file back from the death. Mind, not that it seems this is ever going to happen for Soft anyway at this point. On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Guillaume Laforge mailto:guillaume.laforge...@gmail.com>> wrote: I don't want to be the TD searching in this ASCII .scn file trying to find out how to fix the crash. Just saying :) On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Andy Jones mailto:andy.jo...@gmail.com>> wrote: I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format. Just pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash recovery problem. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za>> wrote: > An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and > restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using Maya, > it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able to run > diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed would be amazing. > > Kind regards > > Angus > > From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com<mailto:andy.jo...@gmail.com>] > Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> > Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? > > I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but > people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside > from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to > fix broken scenes after they've been saved. > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish > mailto:ron...@toonafish.nl>> wrote: >> Word ! That would save sooo many lives. >> >> >> - Ronald >> >> >> On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: >> >> Native ascii scene file format. Period. >> Though we've been asking for it forever now. >> >> -Octav >> >> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind >> mailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com>> wrote: >>> >>> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do >>> not log. There's a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not >>> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
Hi Raph, We all agree that ASCII file editing (like with Maya .ma) would be very useful. My point was just about the crash issue. Having working with the source code of Softimage (even if I was not a persistence specialist), I can imagine how hard it would be to debug a crash in an ASCII scene file. By hard, I mean, from a production point of view. Of course people are free to spend days/weeks/months trying to debug such problem :). On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Raffaele Fragapane < raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: > There's actually a surprising number of issues that you can spot right > away when you have an ascii file that don't involve the kind of ASCII > search that feels like picking fleas off a wolf. > > Scene bloat, something Maya suffers for enormously but Soft isn't exactly > immune to, is just one of many examples where if you have an ascii file > finding the recurring pattern of orphaned data is easy and can bring a file > back from the death. > > Mind, not that it seems this is ever going to happen for Soft anyway at > this point. > > > On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Guillaume Laforge < > guillaume.laforge...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I don't want to be the TD searching in this ASCII .scn file trying to >> find out how to fix the crash. >> >> Just saying :) >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Andy Jones wrote: >> >>> I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format. Just >>> pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash >>> recovery problem. >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson >>> wrote: >>> > An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack >>> and restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using >>> Maya, it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able >>> to run diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed would be >>> amazing. >>> > >>> > Kind regards >>> > >>> > Angus >>> > >>> > From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com] >>> > Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM >>> > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>> > Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? >>> > >>> > I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but >>> > people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside >>> > from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to >>> > fix broken scenes after they've been saved. >>> > >>> > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish wrote: >>> >> Word ! That would save sooo many lives. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> - Ronald >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Native ascii scene file format. Period. >>> >> Though we've been asking for it forever now. >>> >> >>> >> -Octav >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands >>> which do >>> >>> not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates >>> is not >>> >>> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually >>> was >>> >>> before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. >>> Custom >>> >>> tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing >>> commands do >>> >>> not log either. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get >>> >>> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to >>> >>> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many >>> commands >>> >>> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild >>> it >>> >>> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to >>> get it >>> >>> fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error >>> out, or if >>> >>> it was lucky enough to get to the end withou
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
There's actually a surprising number of issues that you can spot right away when you have an ascii file that don't involve the kind of ASCII search that feels like picking fleas off a wolf. Scene bloat, something Maya suffers for enormously but Soft isn't exactly immune to, is just one of many examples where if you have an ascii file finding the recurring pattern of orphaned data is easy and can bring a file back from the death. Mind, not that it seems this is ever going to happen for Soft anyway at this point. On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Guillaume Laforge < guillaume.laforge...@gmail.com> wrote: > I don't want to be the TD searching in this ASCII .scn file trying to find > out how to fix the crash. > > Just saying :) > > > On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Andy Jones wrote: > >> I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format. Just >> pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash >> recovery problem. >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson >> wrote: >> > An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack >> and restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using >> Maya, it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able >> to run diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed would be >> amazing. >> > >> > Kind regards >> > >> > Angus >> > ________________ >> > From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com] >> > Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM >> > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >> > Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? >> > >> > I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but >> > people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside >> > from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to >> > fix broken scenes after they've been saved. >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish wrote: >> >> Word ! That would save sooo many lives. >> >> >> >> >> >> - Ronald >> >> >> >> >> >> On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: >> >> >> >> Native ascii scene file format. Period. >> >> Though we've been asking for it forever now. >> >> >> >> -Octav >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which >> do >> >>> not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates >> is not >> >>> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually >> was >> >>> before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. >> Custom >> >>> tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing >> commands do >> >>> not log either. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get >> >>> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to >> >>> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many >> commands >> >>> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it >> >>> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get >> it >> >>> fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error >> out, or if >> >>> it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result >> was not >> >>> at all like what it should’ve been. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Matt >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com >> >>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy >> Jones >> >>> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM >> >>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >> >>> Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to >> >>> impleme
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
I don't want to be the TD searching in this ASCII .scn file trying to find out how to fix the crash. Just saying :) On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Andy Jones wrote: > I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format. Just > pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash > recovery problem. > > > On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson > wrote: > > An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and > restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using > Maya, it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able > to run diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed would be > amazing. > > > > Kind regards > > > > Angus > > > > From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com] > > Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM > > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com > > Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? > > > > I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but > > people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside > > from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to > > fix broken scenes after they've been saved. > > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish wrote: > >> Word ! That would save sooo many lives. > >> > >> > >> - Ronald > >> > >> > >> On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: > >> > >> Native ascii scene file format. Period. > >> Though we've been asking for it forever now. > >> > >> -Octav > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind > wrote: > >>> > >>> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which > do > >>> not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates > is not > >>> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was > >>> before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. > Custom > >>> tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing > commands do > >>> not log either. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get > >>> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to > >>> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many > commands > >>> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it > >>> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get > it > >>> fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, > or if > >>> it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result > was not > >>> at all like what it should’ve been. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Matt > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com > >>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy > Jones > >>> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM > >>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com > >>> Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to > >>> implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems > more > >>> robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really > kind > >>> of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of > operations. > >>> If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of > command > >>> logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation > >>> journal. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got > >>> crickets. Maybe I'll try again... > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation > >>> and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event > that > >>> sets the script log path on scene open/save. > &
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format. Just pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash recovery problem. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson wrote: > An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and > restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using Maya, > it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able to run > diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed would be amazing. > > Kind regards > > Angus > > From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com] > Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com > Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? > > I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but > people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside > from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to > fix broken scenes after they've been saved. > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish wrote: >> Word ! That would save sooo many lives. >> >> >> - Ronald >> >> >> On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: >> >> Native ascii scene file format. Period. >> Though we've been asking for it forever now. >> >> -Octav >> >> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind wrote: >>> >>> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do >>> not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not >>> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was >>> before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom >>> tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do >>> not log either. >>> >>> >>> >>> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get >>> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to >>> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands >>> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it >>> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it >>> fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if >>> it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not >>> at all like what it should’ve been. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com >>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones >>> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM >>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>> Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? >>> >>> >>> >>> I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to >>> implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more >>> robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind >>> of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. >>> If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command >>> logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation >>> journal. >>> >>> >>> >>> I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got >>> crickets. Maybe I'll try again... >>> >>> >>> >>> All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation >>> and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that >>> sets the script log path on scene open/save. >>> >>> >>> On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: >>> >>> Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly >>> saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. >>> >>> http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge wrote: >>> >>> You're doing it wrong... >>> >>> >>> >>> On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: >>> >>> SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to >>> recover your scene?" >>> >>&
RE: Would you like to recover your scene?
An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using Maya, it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able to run diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed would be amazing. Kind regards Angus From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to fix broken scenes after they've been saved. On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish wrote: > Word ! That would save sooo many lives. > > > - Ronald > > > On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: > > Native ascii scene file format. Period. > Though we've been asking for it forever now. > > -Octav > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind wrote: >> >> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do >> not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not >> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was >> before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom >> tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do >> not log either. >> >> >> >> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get >> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to >> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands >> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it >> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it >> fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if >> it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not >> at all like what it should’ve been. >> >> >> >> >> >> Matt >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com >> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones >> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM >> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >> Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? >> >> >> >> I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to >> implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more >> robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind >> of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. >> If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command >> logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation >> journal. >> >> >> >> I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got >> crickets. Maybe I'll try again... >> >> >> >> All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation >> and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that >> sets the script log path on scene open/save. >> >> >> On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: >> >> Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly >> saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. >> >> http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ >> >> >> >> On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge wrote: >> >> You're doing it wrong... >> >> >> >> On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: >> >> SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to >> recover your scene?" >> >> Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!" >> >> SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!" >> >> Meh >> >> Eric >> >> Freelance 3D and VFX animator >> >> http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work >> >> >> >> > > > > > -- > Octavian Ureche > +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2) > Animation & Visual Effects > www.okto.ro > > > > -- > Ronald van Vemden > --- > 3D Graphics & Animation > Cyberfish Laboratories | www.cyberfish.nl > Toona
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii. Aside from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to fix broken scenes after they've been saved. On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish wrote: > Word ! That would save sooo many lives. > > > - Ronald > > > On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote: > > Native ascii scene file format. Period. > Though we've been asking for it forever now. > > -Octav > > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind wrote: >> >> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do >> not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not >> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was >> before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom >> tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do >> not log either. >> >> >> >> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get >> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to >> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands >> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it >> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it >> fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if >> it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not >> at all like what it should’ve been. >> >> >> >> >> >> Matt >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com >> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones >> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM >> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >> Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? >> >> >> >> I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to >> implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more >> robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind >> of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. >> If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command >> logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation >> journal. >> >> >> >> I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got >> crickets. Maybe I'll try again... >> >> >> >> All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation >> and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that >> sets the script log path on scene open/save. >> >> >> On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: >> >> Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly >> saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. >> >> http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ >> >> >> >> On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge wrote: >> >> You're doing it wrong... >> >> >> >> On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: >> >> SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to >> recover your scene?" >> >> Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!" >> >> SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!" >> >> Meh >> >> Eric >> >> Freelance 3D and VFX animator >> >> http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work >> >> >> >> > > > > > -- > Octavian Ureche > +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2) > Animation & Visual Effects > www.okto.ro > > > > -- > Ronald van Vemden > --- > 3D Graphics & Animation > Cyberfish Laboratories | www.cyberfish.nl > Toonafish | www.toonafish.nl > tel. +31(0)20 5289291 > fax +31(0)20 5289292 > email: ron...@toonafish.nl
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
Yeah, my point isn't that replaying the commands is currently a viable alternative for scene recovery (though I would say it's better than nothing in the cases where the auto-recovery fails). Just that it could be a really good solution, if some more effort were put into ensuring every interaction got logged as a command of some kind. And since a lot of people rely on command logging as a way to build scripts, they'd be killing two birds with one stone. The plugin is just a proof of concept. A journaling approach just seems like a better way to deal with file recovery than a weird last-second binary dump, especially given that the dump often contains the thing causing the crash in the first place and has no way to handle things like power outages, auto-logouts, etc. There's no reason 3D software can't be as robust with file recovery as Nuke is. Even if there are commands that can't be logged for some reason, you could have a special dirty state that triggers a normal auto-save in those instances to ensure that the journal-based recovery can still work properly. On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Matt Lind wrote: > My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not > log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an > accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before > it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools > flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log > either. > > > > Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get > anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to > salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands > were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it > enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it > fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if > it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not > at all like what it should’ve been. > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com > [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com > Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? > > > > I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to > implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more > robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind > of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. > If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command > logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation > journal. > > > > I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got > crickets. Maybe I'll try again... > > > > All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and > them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets > the script log path on scene open/save. > > > On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: > > Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly > saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. > > http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ > > > > On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge wrote: > > You're doing it wrong... > > > > On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: > > SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to > recover your scene?" > > Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!" > > SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!" > > Meh > > Eric > > Freelance 3D and VFX animator > > http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work > > > >
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
Word ! That would save sooo many lives.
- Ronald
On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote:
Native ascii scene file format. Period.
Though we've been asking for it forever now.
-Octav
On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind <mailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com>> wrote:
My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands
which do not log. There’s a good probability the scene your
plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last
state of the scene actually was before it crashed. Animation
edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools flagged to
not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log
either.
Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to
get anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately
tried to salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but
because many commands were not logged it was not possible to
salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage to
diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed. Critical missing
steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky
enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not at
all like what it should’ve been.
Matt
*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On Behalf Of
*Andy Jones
*Sent:* Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
*Subject:* Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
I've said this before, but the script log comes really really
close to implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made
filesystems more robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency
save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of
replaying a journal of operations. If Autodesk realized this,
they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a
simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal.
I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and
got crickets. Maybe I'll try again...
All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save
operation and them exec the remainder. It would work even better
with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save.
On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote:
Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy
properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually.
http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/
On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge
wrote:
You're doing it wrong...
On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote:
SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to
recover your scene?"
Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!"
SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!"
Meh
Eric
Freelance 3D and VFX animator
http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
--
Octavian Ureche
+40 732 774 313 (GMT+2)
Animation & Visual Effects
www.okto.ro <http://www.okto.ro>
--
Ronald van Vemden
---
3D Graphics & Animation
Cyberfish Laboratories | www.cyberfish.nl
Toonafish | www.toonafish.nl
tel. +31(0)20 5289291
fax +31(0)20 5289292
email: ron...@toonafish.nl
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
Native ascii scene file format. Period. Though we've been asking for it forever now. -Octav On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind wrote: > My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do > not log. There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not > an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was > before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. > Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing > commands do not log either. > > ** ** > > Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get > anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to > salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands > were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it > enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it > fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or > if it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was > not at all like what it should’ve been. > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Matt > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: > softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy Jones > *Sent:* Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM > *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com > *Subject:* Re: Would you like to recover your scene? > > ** ** > > I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to > implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more > robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind > of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. > If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command > logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation > journal. > > ** ** > > I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got > crickets. Maybe I'll try again... > > ** ** > > All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation > and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that > sets the script log path on scene open/save. > > > On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: > > Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly > saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. > > http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/**** > > ** ** > > On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge wrote:* > *** > > You're doing it wrong... > > > > On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: > > SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to > recover your scene?" > > Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!" > > SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!" > > Meh > > Eric > > Freelance 3D and VFX animator > > http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work > > ** ** > > ** ** > -- Octavian Ureche +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2) Animation & Visual Effects www.okto.ro
RE: Would you like to recover your scene?
My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not log. There's a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before it crashed. Animation edits, for example, do not log at all. Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log either. Back in good ol' days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed. Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not at all like what it should've been. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene? I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal. I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got crickets. Maybe I'll try again... All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save. On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge > wrote: You're doing it wrong... On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene?" Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!" SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!" Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more robust in the 2000's. the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations. If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal. I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got crickets. Maybe I'll try again... All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and them exec the remainder. It would work even better with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save. On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote: > Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly > saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. > http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ > > > On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge > > > wrote: > >> You're doing it wrong... >> >> >> On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: >> >>> SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to >>> recover your scene?" >>> >>> Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!" >>> >>> SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!" >>> >>> Meh >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> Freelance 3D and VFX animator >>> >>> http://vimeopro.com/**user7979713/3d-work<http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work> >>> >> >> >
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
You're doing it wrong... On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene?" Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!" SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!" Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
Would you like to recover your scene?
SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to recover your scene?" Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!" SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!" Meh Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/ On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge wrote: > You're doing it wrong... > > > On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote: > >> SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to >> recover your scene?" >> >> Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!" >> >> SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!" >> >> Meh >> >> Eric >> >> Freelance 3D and VFX animator >> >> http://vimeopro.com/**user7979713/3d-work<http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work> >> > >
