Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[Jan Høydahl]

We have a huge backlog of stale wiki.apache.org pages which should really just 
point to the refGuide.
I replaced the eDisMax and DisMax pages with a simple link to the ref guide, 
since they do not provide any added value.

--
Jan Høydahl, search solution architect
Cominvent AS - www.cominvent.com

> 1. mar. 2016 kl. 01.10 skrev Alexandre Rafalovitch :
> 
> On 29 February 2016 at 09:40,   wrote:
>> I have no problem with automatic. It is "automagicall" stuff that I find a 
>> bit hard to like. Ie things that are automatic, but doesn't explain how and 
>> why they are automatic. But Disney Land and Disney World are actually really 
>> good examples of places where the magic stuff is suitable, ie in themeparks, 
>> designed mostly for kids. In the grown up world of IT, most people prefer 
>> logical and documented stuff, not things that "just works" without 
>> explaining why. No offence :)
> 
> I agree. Especially after 3 years of technical support for a large
> commercial product, I understand the price of 'automagical'. Solr does
> have a bit of that. And latest 5.x Solr is even more automagical, so
> when things work - it is fabulous. When they do not - it is a bit
> mysterious.
> 
> My solution was to document the learning and creating the resource
> site for others, which has been quite popular (
> http://www.solr-start.com ).
> 
> I also wrote a book specifically for beginners bringing together
> different parts of documentation to explain the automagical parts.
> https://www.packtpub.com/big-data-and-business-intelligence/instant-apache-solr-indexing-data-how
> . It covered the latest (at the time) Solr 4.3. I no longer recommend
> it to anybody on Solr 5, but you may still find it useful for Solr
> 4.6. Unfortunately, all my discount codes are no longer valid :-(
> 
> I am also working on some additional material both for beginners and
> advanced users that will be announced on my Solr Start mailing list as
> well as writing individual pieces on my blog (e.g.
> http://blog.outerthoughts.com/2015/11/learning-solr-comprehensively/
> ).
> 
> In reality, automagical stuff is explained. Problem is that it is
> explained on Wiki vs. Reference Guide vs. Individual blogs vs. Solr
> Revolution videos vs. ... The discovery of information is a
> significant problem for Solr, just like it is for any open source
> project.
> 
> Regards,
>   Alex.
> 
> Newsletter and resources for Solr beginners and intermediates:
> http://www.solr-start.com/

Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[Alexandre Rafalovitch]

On 29 February 2016 at 09:40,   wrote:
> I have no problem with automatic. It is "automagicall" stuff that I find a 
> bit hard to like. Ie things that are automatic, but doesn't explain how and 
> why they are automatic. But Disney Land and Disney World are actually really 
> good examples of places where the magic stuff is suitable, ie in themeparks, 
> designed mostly for kids. In the grown up world of IT, most people prefer 
> logical and documented stuff, not things that "just works" without explaining 
> why. No offence :)

I agree. Especially after 3 years of technical support for a large
commercial product, I understand the price of 'automagical'. Solr does
have a bit of that. And latest 5.x Solr is even more automagical, so
when things work - it is fabulous. When they do not - it is a bit
mysterious.

My solution was to document the learning and creating the resource
site for others, which has been quite popular (
http://www.solr-start.com ).

I also wrote a book specifically for beginners bringing together
different parts of documentation to explain the automagical parts.
https://www.packtpub.com/big-data-and-business-intelligence/instant-apache-solr-indexing-data-how
. It covered the latest (at the time) Solr 4.3. I no longer recommend
it to anybody on Solr 5, but you may still find it useful for Solr
4.6. Unfortunately, all my discount codes are no longer valid :-(

I am also working on some additional material both for beginners and
advanced users that will be announced on my Solr Start mailing list as
well as writing individual pieces on my blog (e.g.
http://blog.outerthoughts.com/2015/11/learning-solr-comprehensively/
).

In reality, automagical stuff is explained. Problem is that it is
explained on Wiki vs. Reference Guide vs. Individual blogs vs. Solr
Revolution videos vs. ... The discovery of information is a
significant problem for Solr, just like it is for any open source
project.

Regards,
   Alex.

Newsletter and resources for Solr beginners and intermediates:
http://www.solr-start.com/

Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[Jack Krupansky]

Interesting... if I google for "edismax solr" (I usually specify a product
name when searching for doc by feature name to avoid irrelevant hits) the
old wiki comes up as #1 and new doc as #2, but if I search for "edismax"
alone (which I normally wouldn't do out of a desire to limit matches to the
desired product) the new ref guide does indeed show up as #1 and the old
wiki as #2.

I'm not enough of an SEO expert to know how to de-boost the old wiki other
than outright deletion. I'm guessing it's due to a lot of inbound links,
maybe mostly from references in old emails.

In any case, a proper tombstone is probably the best step at this point.

-- Jack Krupansky

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Jack Krupansky <jack.krupan...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> It is indeed a problem that the old edismax wiki is result #1 from Google.
> I find that annoying as well since I also use Google search as my first
> step in accessing doc on everything.
>
> -- Jack Krupansky
>
> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:03 AM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Shawn,
>>
>> I had more or less assumed that the cwiki site was focused on the latest
>> Solr version, but never really noticed that the "reference guide" was
>> available in version-specific releases. I guess that is partly because I
>> prefer googling about a specific topic, instead of reading some reference
>> guide cover to cover. And from a google search for "edismax" (for example),
>> it's not really trivial to click one's way into a version-specific
>> reference guide on that topic. Instead, one tends to land on the wiki pages
>> (with the old wiki as the first hit, sometimes).
>>
>> Regards
>> /Jimi
>>
>> -----Original Message-
>> From: Shawn Heisey [mailto:apa...@elyograg.org]
>> Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 3:45 PM
>> To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found
>>
>> On 2/29/2016 7:00 AM, jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se wrote:
>> > So, should I assume that the "Confluence wiki" is the correct place for
>> all documentation, even for solr 4.6?
>>
>> If you want documentation specifically for 4.6, there are
>> version-specific releases of the guide:
>>
>> https://archive.apache.org/dist/lucene/solr/ref-guide/
>>
>> The confluence wiki is the "live" version of the reference guide,
>> applicable to whatever version of Solr is being worked on at the moment,
>> not the released versions.  Because it's such a large documentation set and
>> Solr evolves incrementally, quite a lot of the confluence wiki is
>> applicable to older versions, but the wiki as a whole is not intended for
>> those older versions.
>>
>> The project is gearing up to begin the work on releasing version 6.0, so
>> you can expect a LOT of change activity on the confluence wiki in the near
>> future.  I have no idea how long it will take to finish 6.0.  The last two
>> major releases (4.0 and 5.0) took months, but there's strong hope on the
>> team that it will only take a few weeks this time.
>>
>> If you want to keep an eye on the pulse of the project, join the dev list.
>>
>> http://lucene.apache.org/solr/resources.html#mailing-lists
>>
>> In addition to a fair number of messages from real people, the dev list
>> receives automated email from back-end systems in the project
>> infrastructure, which creates very high traffic.  The ability to create
>> filters to move mail between folders may help you keep your sanity.
>>
>> Also listed on the link above page is the commit notification list, which
>> offers a particularly verbose look into what's happening to the project.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shawn
>>
>>
>

Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[Jack Krupansky]

It is indeed a problem that the old edismax wiki is result #1 from Google.
I find that annoying as well since I also use Google search as my first
step in accessing doc on everything.

-- Jack Krupansky

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:03 AM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
wrote:

> Thanks Shawn,
>
> I had more or less assumed that the cwiki site was focused on the latest
> Solr version, but never really noticed that the "reference guide" was
> available in version-specific releases. I guess that is partly because I
> prefer googling about a specific topic, instead of reading some reference
> guide cover to cover. And from a google search for "edismax" (for example),
> it's not really trivial to click one's way into a version-specific
> reference guide on that topic. Instead, one tends to land on the wiki pages
> (with the old wiki as the first hit, sometimes).
>
> Regards
> /Jimi
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Shawn Heisey [mailto:apa...@elyograg.org]
> Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 3:45 PM
> To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
> Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found
>
> On 2/29/2016 7:00 AM, jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se wrote:
> > So, should I assume that the "Confluence wiki" is the correct place for
> all documentation, even for solr 4.6?
>
> If you want documentation specifically for 4.6, there are version-specific
> releases of the guide:
>
> https://archive.apache.org/dist/lucene/solr/ref-guide/
>
> The confluence wiki is the "live" version of the reference guide,
> applicable to whatever version of Solr is being worked on at the moment,
> not the released versions.  Because it's such a large documentation set and
> Solr evolves incrementally, quite a lot of the confluence wiki is
> applicable to older versions, but the wiki as a whole is not intended for
> those older versions.
>
> The project is gearing up to begin the work on releasing version 6.0, so
> you can expect a LOT of change activity on the confluence wiki in the near
> future.  I have no idea how long it will take to finish 6.0.  The last two
> major releases (4.0 and 5.0) took months, but there's strong hope on the
> team that it will only take a few weeks this time.
>
> If you want to keep an eye on the pulse of the project, join the dev list.
>
> http://lucene.apache.org/solr/resources.html#mailing-lists
>
> In addition to a fair number of messages from real people, the dev list
> receives automated email from back-end systems in the project
> infrastructure, which creates very high traffic.  The ability to create
> filters to move mail between folders may help you keep your sanity.
>
> Also listed on the link above page is the commit notification list, which
> offers a particularly verbose look into what's happening to the project.
>
> Thanks,
> Shawn
>
>

RE: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[jimi.hullegard]

Thanks Shawn, 

I had more or less assumed that the cwiki site was focused on the latest Solr 
version, but never really noticed that the "reference guide" was available in 
version-specific releases. I guess that is partly because I prefer googling 
about a specific topic, instead of reading some reference guide cover to cover. 
And from a google search for "edismax" (for example), it's not really trivial 
to click one's way into a version-specific reference guide on that topic. 
Instead, one tends to land on the wiki pages (with the old wiki as the first 
hit, sometimes).

Regards
/Jimi

-Original Message-
From: Shawn Heisey [mailto:apa...@elyograg.org] 
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 3:45 PM
To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

On 2/29/2016 7:00 AM, jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se wrote:
> So, should I assume that the "Confluence wiki" is the correct place for all 
> documentation, even for solr 4.6?

If you want documentation specifically for 4.6, there are version-specific 
releases of the guide:

https://archive.apache.org/dist/lucene/solr/ref-guide/

The confluence wiki is the "live" version of the reference guide, applicable to 
whatever version of Solr is being worked on at the moment, not the released 
versions.  Because it's such a large documentation set and Solr evolves 
incrementally, quite a lot of the confluence wiki is applicable to older 
versions, but the wiki as a whole is not intended for those older versions.

The project is gearing up to begin the work on releasing version 6.0, so you 
can expect a LOT of change activity on the confluence wiki in the near future.  
I have no idea how long it will take to finish 6.0.  The last two major 
releases (4.0 and 5.0) took months, but there's strong hope on the team that it 
will only take a few weeks this time.

If you want to keep an eye on the pulse of the project, join the dev list.

http://lucene.apache.org/solr/resources.html#mailing-lists

In addition to a fair number of messages from real people, the dev list 
receives automated email from back-end systems in the project infrastructure, 
which creates very high traffic.  The ability to create filters to move mail 
between folders may help you keep your sanity.

Also listed on the link above page is the commit notification list, which 
offers a particularly verbose look into what's happening to the project.

Thanks,
Shawn

RE: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[jimi.hullegard]

Well, I have to say that I strongly disagree with you. No regular user should 
have to resort to the source code to understand that edismax is preconfigured. 
Because that is what this is all about, in essence. The current documentation 
doesn't mention this, and the only documentation about configuration I could 
find states that the configuration can be found in the example solrconfig.xml.

I don't know why you start talking about implementation details. That is a 
totally different discussion. I am talking about "What do I need to do to make 
feature X work?", and if the answer to that is "Nothing, feature X is already 
available and configured out-of-the-box", well, then the documentation should 
simply state that fact. There is no reason to hide the fact that the feature is 
already built in. This is what I'm talking about. But to be crystal clear what 
I'm talking about:

1. Something works automatically, with no indication why -> This I consider 
"automagical", and in most cases bad (at least from a professional point of 
view).
2. Something works automatically, with an indication why (even just a few words 
can be OK) -> This is good.

Now, regarding my responsibility as a novice solr user. Somehow I should have 
*known* that one seemingly official solr documentation site was old/deprecated, 
even though I didn't see any information about that on that site? And then when 
I found the correct documentation site, I somehow should have *known* that 
edismax was preconfigured? (Otherwise, how would I know what documentation 
changes to suggest?)

Now, I could make some rude comment now about your tone. But I know that I 
might not have articulated myself in the perfect manner myself in some of my 
messages in this thread. So maybe it is best that we assume that we both in a 
way misunderstood each other a bit (I never meant that the hard work of Solr 
developers/commiters was unappreciated, and you probably never meant that 
important information should be hidden from the user).

Also, I hope that you don't find my critique about the documentation in any way 
as some kind of "demands". I know I am not a paying customer, so I know I can't 
"demand" anything, and would never think of doing that. But that doesn't mean 
that one can't look at this from a crass "business" perspective. If one's goal 
is to have many happy and educated users, then it is not bad to think about 
having the documentation up-to-date and clear about things, even things that 
most experienced Solr users find obvious.

Regarding the old wiki page. I found it using google. If I search for 
"ExtendedDisMax", "edismax configuration", or even just "edismax", I get that 
page as the very first hit. So I can only assume that I am not the only one 
stumbling over that old wiki. Some kind of tombstone warning sounds smart.

Regards
/Jimi


-Original Message-
From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 2:40 PM
To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

There is nothing wrong with features that appear to be automagical - that 
should in fact be a goal for all modern software systems. Of course, there is 
no magic, it's all real logic and any magic is purely appearance - it's just 
that the underlying logic may be complex and not obvious to an uninformed 
observer. Deliberately hiding information from users (e.g., implementation 
details) is indeed a goal for Solr - no mere mortal should be exposed to the 
intricate detail of the underlying Lucene search library or the apparent magic 
of edismax. In truth, nothing is hidden - the source code of both Solr and 
Lucene are readily available. But to the user it may (and should) appear to 
magical and even automagical.

OTOH, maybe some of the doc on edismax was not as clear as it could have been, 
in which case it is up to you to point out which specific passage(s) caused 
your difficulty. AFAICT, nothing at all was hidden - the examples in the doc 
(which I pointed you to) seem very simple and direct to the point.
If you experienced them otherwise, it is up to you to point out any problems 
that you had. And as I pointed out, you had started with the old wiki when you 
should have started with the current Solr Reference Guide.

The old edismax wiki should in fact have a tombstone warning that indicates 
that it is obsolete and redirect people to the new doc. Out of curiosity, how 
did you get to that old wiki page in the first place?

-- Jack Krupansky

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 3:20 AM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
wrote:

> There is no need to deliberately misinterpret what I wrote. What I was 
> trying to say was that "automagical" things don't belong in a 
> professional environment, because it is hiding important information 
> from people. And this is bad

Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[Shawn Heisey]

On 2/29/2016 7:00 AM, jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se wrote:
> So, should I assume that the "Confluence wiki" is the correct place for all 
> documentation, even for solr 4.6?

If you want documentation specifically for 4.6, there are
version-specific releases of the guide:

https://archive.apache.org/dist/lucene/solr/ref-guide/

The confluence wiki is the "live" version of the reference guide,
applicable to whatever version of Solr is being worked on at the moment,
not the released versions.  Because it's such a large documentation set
and Solr evolves incrementally, quite a lot of the confluence wiki is
applicable to older versions, but the wiki as a whole is not intended
for those older versions.

The project is gearing up to begin the work on releasing version 6.0, so
you can expect a LOT of change activity on the confluence wiki in the
near future.  I have no idea how long it will take to finish 6.0.  The
last two major releases (4.0 and 5.0) took months, but there's strong
hope on the team that it will only take a few weeks this time.

If you want to keep an eye on the pulse of the project, join the dev list.

http://lucene.apache.org/solr/resources.html#mailing-lists

In addition to a fair number of messages from real people, the dev list
receives automated email from back-end systems in the project
infrastructure, which creates very high traffic.  The ability to create
filters to move mail between folders may help you keep your sanity.

Also listed on the link above page is the commit notification list,
which offers a particularly verbose look into what's happening to the
project.

Thanks,
Shawn

RE: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[jimi.hullegard]

Hi Jan,

Well, I have very likely confused some old documentation to be up to date, but 
all I did was to google for "ExtendedDisMax" and clicked on the first result:

https://wiki.apache.org/solr/ExtendedDisMax

I could only assume that this was a valid page since it belongs to 
wiki.apache.org/solr/ and nowhere on the page it says anything about the 
documentation being deprecated or having moved somewhere else. I now can see 
that the last modification date of that page is August 2013, but that is 
written in a small font at the very bottom of the page, so not something I 
noticed before.

So, should I assume that the "Confluence wiki" is the correct place for all 
documentation, even for solr 4.6?

I hope you can understand my confusion, since there seem to be 3 official 
documentation sites (wiki.apache.org/solr/, 
cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/solr/ and lucene.apache.org/solr/), with no 
clear indication anywhere (that I could find) which site should be used or how 
they complement each other.

Also I would like to thank you for explaining that the query parses, response 
writers etc are built in in Solr now, so they don't need to be configured at 
all. I just am a bit confused about the fact that nobody thought that the 
documentation should be just as clear about this as you have been here. :)

Regards
/Jimi

-Original Message-
From: Jan Høydahl [mailto:jan@cominvent.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 12:52 PM
To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

Hi Jimi,

I believe you may be confusing some old config and thus was lead to believe 
that you need to pre-configure anything in order to start using dismax / 
edismax.

In ealier versions of Solr, there was both a  named “dismax” as 
well as a  named “dismax”, setting the defType parameter to 
“dismax”. This caused some confusion and was removed in 3.1 (see 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-2363).

All the built-in Solr Query parsers mentioned in the Reference Guide, such as 
“lucene”, “dismax”, “edismax” etc are pre-registered with these keywords, so no 
need for explicit  tags. And you can test them out through the 
normal /select end point without configuring a new  section in 
solrconfig.xml. You may of course choose to create your own  
section with predefined defaults for the defType, qf, pf, pf2, pf3, tie, mm… 
parameters once you got all those defined, but in the simplest case, all you 
need to do is as described in the RefGuide:

   
http://localhost:8983/solr/techproducts/select?q=foo=edismax=title^10,body^2

Feel free to ask further questions if you don’t get it right.

PS: Solr has a rich library of built-in components ready to use out of the box. 
There are many query parsers, response writers, function queries, field types 
etc that you can start using directly. Then you have some “contrib” features 
which need to be explicitly added to class path and registered in 
solrconfig.xml before using, and the same with 3rd party components you 
download elsewhere. But most of the bundled stuff you read about in the 
RefGuide is already integrated, ready to use.

--
Jan Høydahl, search solution architect
Cominvent AS - www.cominvent.com

> 29. feb. 2016 kl. 09.20 skrev jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se:
> 
> There is no need to deliberately misinterpret what I wrote. What I was trying 
> to say was that "automagical" things don't belong in a professional 
> environment, because it is hiding important information from people. And this 
> is bad as it is, but if it on top of that is the *intended* meaning for 
> things in solr to be "automagical", ie *deliberately* hiding information from 
> the solr users, well that attitude is just baffling in my eyes. I can only 
> hope that I misunderstood you.
> 
> /Jimi
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:44 PM
> To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
> Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found
> 
> So, all this hard work that people have put into Solr to make it more like a 
> Disney theme park is just... wasted... on you? Sigh. Okay, I guess we can't 
> please everyone.
> 
> -- Jack Krupansky
> 
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:40 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
> wrote:
> 
>> I have no problem with automatic. It is "automagicall" stuff that I 
>> find a bit hard to like. Ie things that are automatic, but doesn't 
>> explain how and why they are automatic. But Disney Land and Disney 
>> World are actually really good examples of places where the magic 
>> stuff is suitable, ie in themeparks, designed mostly for kids. In the 
>> grown up world of IT, most people prefer logical and documented stuff, not 
>> things that "just works&quo

Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[Jack Krupansky]

There is nothing wrong with features that appear to be automagical - that
should in fact be a goal for all modern software systems. Of course, there
is no magic, it's all real logic and any magic is purely appearance - it's
just that the underlying logic may be complex and not obvious to an
uninformed observer. Deliberately hiding information from users (e.g.,
implementation details) is indeed a goal for Solr - no mere mortal should
be exposed to the intricate detail of the underlying Lucene search library
or the apparent magic of edismax. In truth, nothing is hidden - the source
code of both Solr and Lucene are readily available. But to the user it may
(and should) appear to magical and even automagical.

OTOH, maybe some of the doc on edismax was not as clear as it could have
been, in which case it is up to you to point out which specific passage(s)
caused your difficulty. AFAICT, nothing at all was hidden - the examples in
the doc (which I pointed you to) seem very simple and direct to the point.
If you experienced them otherwise, it is up to you to point out any
problems that you had. And as I pointed out, you had started with the old
wiki when you should have started with the current Solr Reference Guide.

The old edismax wiki should in fact have a tombstone warning that indicates
that it is obsolete and redirect people to the new doc. Out of curiosity,
how did you get to that old wiki page in the first place?

-- Jack Krupansky

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 3:20 AM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
wrote:

> There is no need to deliberately misinterpret what I wrote. What I was
> trying to say was that "automagical" things don't belong in a professional
> environment, because it is hiding important information from people. And
> this is bad as it is, but if it on top of that is the *intended* meaning
> for things in solr to be "automagical", ie *deliberately* hiding
> information from the solr users, well that attitude is just baffling in my
> eyes. I can only hope that I misunderstood you.
>
> /Jimi
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:44 PM
> To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
> Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found
>
> So, all this hard work that people have put into Solr to make it more like
> a Disney theme park is just... wasted... on you? Sigh. Okay, I guess we
> can't please everyone.
>
> -- Jack Krupansky
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:40 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
> wrote:
>
> > I have no problem with automatic. It is "automagicall" stuff that I
> > find a bit hard to like. Ie things that are automatic, but doesn't
> > explain how and why they are automatic. But Disney Land and Disney
> > World are actually really good examples of places where the magic
> > stuff is suitable, ie in themeparks, designed mostly for kids. In the
> > grown up world of IT, most people prefer logical and documented stuff,
> not things that "just works"
> > without explaining why. No offence :)
> >
> > /Jimi
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:31 PM
> > To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found
> >
> > Yes, it absolutely is automagic - just look at those examples in the
> > Confluence ref guide. No special request handler is needed - just the
> > normal default handler. Just the defType and qf parameters are needed
> > - as shown in the wiki examples.
> >
> > It really is that simple! All you have to supply is the list of fields
> > to query (qf) and your actual query text (q).
> >
> > I know, I know... some people just can't handle automatic. (Some
> > people hate DisneyLand/World!)
> >
> > -- Jack Krupansky
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:16 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I'm sorry, but I am still confused. I'm expecting to see some
> > >  tag somewhere. Why doesn't the documentation nor
> > > the example solrconfig.xml contain such a tag?
> > >
> > > If the edismax requestHandler is defined automatically, the
> > > documentation should explain that. Also, there should still exist
> > > some xml code that corresponds exactly to that default setup, right?
> > > That is what I'm looking for.
> > >
> > > For now, this edismax thing seems to work "automagically", and I
> > > prefer to understand why and how something works.
> > >
> > > /Jimi
> > >
> &

Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[Jan Høydahl]

Hi Jimi,

I believe you may be confusing some old config and thus was lead to believe 
that you need to pre-configure anything in order to start using dismax / 
edismax.

In ealier versions of Solr, there was both a  named “dismax” as 
well as a  named “dismax”, setting the defType parameter to 
“dismax”. This caused some confusion and was removed in 3.1 (see 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-2363).

All the built-in Solr Query parsers mentioned in the Reference Guide, such as 
“lucene”, “dismax”, “edismax” etc are pre-registered with these keywords, so no 
need for explicit  tags. And you can test them out through the 
normal /select end point without configuring a new  section in 
solrconfig.xml. You may of course choose to create your own  
section with predefined defaults for the defType, qf, pf, pf2, pf3, tie, mm… 
parameters once you got all those defined, but in the simplest case, all you 
need to do is as described in the RefGuide:

   
http://localhost:8983/solr/techproducts/select?q=foo=edismax=title^10,body^2

Feel free to ask further questions if you don’t get it right.

PS: Solr has a rich library of built-in components ready to use out of the box. 
There are many query parsers, response writers, function queries, field types 
etc that you can start using directly. Then you have some “contrib” features 
which need to be explicitly added to class path and registered in 
solrconfig.xml before using, and the same with 3rd party components you 
download elsewhere. But most of the bundled stuff you read about in the 
RefGuide is already integrated, ready to use.

--
Jan Høydahl, search solution architect
Cominvent AS - www.cominvent.com

> 29. feb. 2016 kl. 09.20 skrev jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se:
> 
> There is no need to deliberately misinterpret what I wrote. What I was trying 
> to say was that "automagical" things don't belong in a professional 
> environment, because it is hiding important information from people. And this 
> is bad as it is, but if it on top of that is the *intended* meaning for 
> things in solr to be "automagical", ie *deliberately* hiding information from 
> the solr users, well that attitude is just baffling in my eyes. I can only 
> hope that I misunderstood you.
> 
> /Jimi
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:44 PM
> To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
> Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found
> 
> So, all this hard work that people have put into Solr to make it more like a 
> Disney theme park is just... wasted... on you? Sigh. Okay, I guess we can't 
> please everyone.
> 
> -- Jack Krupansky
> 
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:40 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
> wrote:
> 
>> I have no problem with automatic. It is "automagicall" stuff that I 
>> find a bit hard to like. Ie things that are automatic, but doesn't 
>> explain how and why they are automatic. But Disney Land and Disney 
>> World are actually really good examples of places where the magic 
>> stuff is suitable, ie in themeparks, designed mostly for kids. In the 
>> grown up world of IT, most people prefer logical and documented stuff, not 
>> things that "just works"
>> without explaining why. No offence :)
>> 
>> /Jimi
>> 
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:31 PM
>> To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found
>> 
>> Yes, it absolutely is automagic - just look at those examples in the 
>> Confluence ref guide. No special request handler is needed - just the 
>> normal default handler. Just the defType and qf parameters are needed 
>> - as shown in the wiki examples.
>> 
>> It really is that simple! All you have to supply is the list of fields 
>> to query (qf) and your actual query text (q).
>> 
>> I know, I know... some people just can't handle automatic. (Some 
>> people hate DisneyLand/World!)
>> 
>> -- Jack Krupansky
>> 
>> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:16 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm sorry, but I am still confused. I'm expecting to see some 
>>>  tag somewhere. Why doesn't the documentation nor 
>>> the example solrconfig.xml contain such a tag?
>>> 
>>> If the edismax requestHandler is defined automatically, the 
>>> documentation should explain that. Also, there should still exist 
>>> some xml code that corresponds exactly to that default setup, right? 
>>> That is what I'm looking for.
>>> 

RE: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[jimi.hullegard]

There is no need to deliberately misinterpret what I wrote. What I was trying 
to say was that "automagical" things don't belong in a professional 
environment, because it is hiding important information from people. And this 
is bad as it is, but if it on top of that is the *intended* meaning for things 
in solr to be "automagical", ie *deliberately* hiding information from the solr 
users, well that attitude is just baffling in my eyes. I can only hope that I 
misunderstood you.

/Jimi

-Original Message-
From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:44 PM
To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

So, all this hard work that people have put into Solr to make it more like a 
Disney theme park is just... wasted... on you? Sigh. Okay, I guess we can't 
please everyone.

-- Jack Krupansky

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:40 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
wrote:

> I have no problem with automatic. It is "automagicall" stuff that I 
> find a bit hard to like. Ie things that are automatic, but doesn't 
> explain how and why they are automatic. But Disney Land and Disney 
> World are actually really good examples of places where the magic 
> stuff is suitable, ie in themeparks, designed mostly for kids. In the 
> grown up world of IT, most people prefer logical and documented stuff, not 
> things that "just works"
> without explaining why. No offence :)
>
> /Jimi
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:31 PM
> To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
> Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found
>
> Yes, it absolutely is automagic - just look at those examples in the 
> Confluence ref guide. No special request handler is needed - just the 
> normal default handler. Just the defType and qf parameters are needed 
> - as shown in the wiki examples.
>
> It really is that simple! All you have to supply is the list of fields 
> to query (qf) and your actual query text (q).
>
> I know, I know... some people just can't handle automatic. (Some 
> people hate DisneyLand/World!)
>
> -- Jack Krupansky
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:16 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm sorry, but I am still confused. I'm expecting to see some 
> >  tag somewhere. Why doesn't the documentation nor 
> > the example solrconfig.xml contain such a tag?
> >
> > If the edismax requestHandler is defined automatically, the 
> > documentation should explain that. Also, there should still exist 
> > some xml code that corresponds exactly to that default setup, right? 
> > That is what I'm looking for.
> >
> > For now, this edismax thing seems to work "automagically", and I 
> > prefer to understand why and how something works.
> >
> > /Jimi
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 10:58 PM
> > To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found
> >
> > Consult the Confluence wiki for more recent doc:
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/solr/The+Extended+DisMax
> > +Q
> > uery+Parser
> >
> > You can specify all the parameters on your query request as in the 
> > examples, or by placing the parameters in the "defaults" section for 
> > your request handler in solrconfig.xml.
> >
> >
> > -- Jack Krupansky
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:42 PM, 
> > <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I want to setup ExtendedDisMax in our solr 4.6 server, but I can't 
> > > seem to find any example configuration for this. Ie the 
> > > configuration needed in solrconfig.xml. In the wiki page 
> > > http://wiki.apache.org/solr/ExtendedDisMax it simply says:
> > >
> > > "Extended DisMax is already configured in the example 
> > > configuration, with the name edismax."
> > >
> > > But this is not true for the solrconfig.xml in our setup (it only 
> > > contains an example for dismax, not edismax), and I downloaded the 
> > > latest solr zip file (solr 5.5.0), and it didn't have either 
> > > dismax or edismax in any of its solrconfig.xml files.
> > >
> > > Why is it so hard to find this configuration? Am I missing 
> > > something obvious?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > /Jimi
> > >
> >
>

Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[Walter Underwood]

> On Feb 28, 2016, at 2:40 PM,  
>  wrote:
> 
> But Disney Land and Disney World are actually really good examples of places 
> where the magic stuff is suitable, ...


As a former Disney employee, those are properly “Disneyland” and “Walt Disney 
World”, which makes a good example of the need for shingle-type synonyms.

wunder
Walter Underwood
Former GO.com/Infoseek search engineer
wun...@wunderwood.org
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)

Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[Jack Krupansky]

So, all this hard work that people have put into Solr to make it more like
a Disney theme park is just... wasted... on you? Sigh. Okay, I guess we
can't please everyone.

-- Jack Krupansky

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:40 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
wrote:

> I have no problem with automatic. It is "automagicall" stuff that I find a
> bit hard to like. Ie things that are automatic, but doesn't explain how and
> why they are automatic. But Disney Land and Disney World are actually
> really good examples of places where the magic stuff is suitable, ie in
> themeparks, designed mostly for kids. In the grown up world of IT, most
> people prefer logical and documented stuff, not things that "just works"
> without explaining why. No offence :)
>
> /Jimi
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:31 PM
> To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
> Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found
>
> Yes, it absolutely is automagic - just look at those examples in the
> Confluence ref guide. No special request handler is needed - just the
> normal default handler. Just the defType and qf parameters are needed - as
> shown in the wiki examples.
>
> It really is that simple! All you have to supply is the list of fields to
> query (qf) and your actual query text (q).
>
> I know, I know... some people just can't handle automatic. (Some people
> hate DisneyLand/World!)
>
> -- Jack Krupansky
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:16 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm sorry, but I am still confused. I'm expecting to see some
> >  tag somewhere. Why doesn't the documentation nor the
> > example solrconfig.xml contain such a tag?
> >
> > If the edismax requestHandler is defined automatically, the
> > documentation should explain that. Also, there should still exist some
> > xml code that corresponds exactly to that default setup, right? That
> > is what I'm looking for.
> >
> > For now, this edismax thing seems to work "automagically", and I
> > prefer to understand why and how something works.
> >
> > /Jimi
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 10:58 PM
> > To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found
> >
> > Consult the Confluence wiki for more recent doc:
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/solr/The+Extended+DisMax+Q
> > uery+Parser
> >
> > You can specify all the parameters on your query request as in the
> > examples, or by placing the parameters in the "defaults" section for
> > your request handler in solrconfig.xml.
> >
> >
> > -- Jack Krupansky
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:42 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I want to setup ExtendedDisMax in our solr 4.6 server, but I can't
> > > seem to find any example configuration for this. Ie the
> > > configuration needed in solrconfig.xml. In the wiki page
> > > http://wiki.apache.org/solr/ExtendedDisMax it simply says:
> > >
> > > "Extended DisMax is already configured in the example configuration,
> > > with the name edismax."
> > >
> > > But this is not true for the solrconfig.xml in our setup (it only
> > > contains an example for dismax, not edismax), and I downloaded the
> > > latest solr zip file (solr 5.5.0), and it didn't have either dismax
> > > or edismax in any of its solrconfig.xml files.
> > >
> > > Why is it so hard to find this configuration? Am I missing something
> > > obvious?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > /Jimi
> > >
> >
>

RE: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[jimi.hullegard]

I have no problem with automatic. It is "automagicall" stuff that I find a bit 
hard to like. Ie things that are automatic, but doesn't explain how and why 
they are automatic. But Disney Land and Disney World are actually really good 
examples of places where the magic stuff is suitable, ie in themeparks, 
designed mostly for kids. In the grown up world of IT, most people prefer 
logical and documented stuff, not things that "just works" without explaining 
why. No offence :)

/Jimi

-Original Message-
From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:31 PM
To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

Yes, it absolutely is automagic - just look at those examples in the Confluence 
ref guide. No special request handler is needed - just the normal default 
handler. Just the defType and qf parameters are needed - as shown in the wiki 
examples.

It really is that simple! All you have to supply is the list of fields to query 
(qf) and your actual query text (q).

I know, I know... some people just can't handle automatic. (Some people hate 
DisneyLand/World!)

-- Jack Krupansky

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:16 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
wrote:

> I'm sorry, but I am still confused. I'm expecting to see some 
>  tag somewhere. Why doesn't the documentation nor the 
> example solrconfig.xml contain such a tag?
>
> If the edismax requestHandler is defined automatically, the 
> documentation should explain that. Also, there should still exist some 
> xml code that corresponds exactly to that default setup, right? That 
> is what I'm looking for.
>
> For now, this edismax thing seems to work "automagically", and I 
> prefer to understand why and how something works.
>
> /Jimi
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 10:58 PM
> To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
> Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found
>
> Consult the Confluence wiki for more recent doc:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/solr/The+Extended+DisMax+Q
> uery+Parser
>
> You can specify all the parameters on your query request as in the 
> examples, or by placing the parameters in the "defaults" section for 
> your request handler in solrconfig.xml.
>
>
> -- Jack Krupansky
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:42 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I want to setup ExtendedDisMax in our solr 4.6 server, but I can't 
> > seem to find any example configuration for this. Ie the 
> > configuration needed in solrconfig.xml. In the wiki page 
> > http://wiki.apache.org/solr/ExtendedDisMax it simply says:
> >
> > "Extended DisMax is already configured in the example configuration, 
> > with the name edismax."
> >
> > But this is not true for the solrconfig.xml in our setup (it only 
> > contains an example for dismax, not edismax), and I downloaded the 
> > latest solr zip file (solr 5.5.0), and it didn't have either dismax 
> > or edismax in any of its solrconfig.xml files.
> >
> > Why is it so hard to find this configuration? Am I missing something 
> > obvious?
> >
> > Regards
> > /Jimi
> >
>

Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[Jack Krupansky]

Yes, it absolutely is automagic - just look at those examples in the
Confluence ref guide. No special request handler is needed - just the
normal default handler. Just the defType and qf parameters are needed - as
shown in the wiki examples.

It really is that simple! All you have to supply is the list of fields to
query (qf) and your actual query text (q).

I know, I know... some people just can't handle automatic. (Some people
hate DisneyLand/World!)

-- Jack Krupansky

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:16 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
wrote:

> I'm sorry, but I am still confused. I'm expecting to see some
>  tag somewhere. Why doesn't the documentation nor the
> example solrconfig.xml contain such a tag?
>
> If the edismax requestHandler is defined automatically, the documentation
> should explain that. Also, there should still exist some xml code that
> corresponds exactly to that default setup, right? That is what I'm looking
> for.
>
> For now, this edismax thing seems to work "automagically", and I prefer to
> understand why and how something works.
>
> /Jimi
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 10:58 PM
> To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
> Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found
>
> Consult the Confluence wiki for more recent doc:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/solr/The+Extended+DisMax+Query+Parser
>
> You can specify all the parameters on your query request as in the
> examples, or by placing the parameters in the "defaults" section for your
> request handler in solrconfig.xml.
>
>
> -- Jack Krupansky
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:42 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I want to setup ExtendedDisMax in our solr 4.6 server, but I can't
> > seem to find any example configuration for this. Ie the configuration
> > needed in solrconfig.xml. In the wiki page
> > http://wiki.apache.org/solr/ExtendedDisMax it simply says:
> >
> > "Extended DisMax is already configured in the example configuration,
> > with the name edismax."
> >
> > But this is not true for the solrconfig.xml in our setup (it only
> > contains an example for dismax, not edismax), and I downloaded the
> > latest solr zip file (solr 5.5.0), and it didn't have either dismax or
> > edismax in any of its solrconfig.xml files.
> >
> > Why is it so hard to find this configuration? Am I missing something
> > obvious?
> >
> > Regards
> > /Jimi
> >
>

RE: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[jimi.hullegard]

I'm sorry, but I am still confused. I'm expecting to see some  
tag somewhere. Why doesn't the documentation nor the example solrconfig.xml 
contain such a tag?

If the edismax requestHandler is defined automatically, the documentation 
should explain that. Also, there should still exist some xml code that 
corresponds exactly to that default setup, right? That is what I'm looking for.

For now, this edismax thing seems to work "automagically", and I prefer to 
understand why and how something works.

/Jimi

-Original Message-
From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 10:58 PM
To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org
Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

Consult the Confluence wiki for more recent doc:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/solr/The+Extended+DisMax+Query+Parser

You can specify all the parameters on your query request as in the examples, or 
by placing the parameters in the "defaults" section for your request handler in 
solrconfig.xml.


-- Jack Krupansky

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:42 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I want to setup ExtendedDisMax in our solr 4.6 server, but I can't 
> seem to find any example configuration for this. Ie the configuration 
> needed in solrconfig.xml. In the wiki page 
> http://wiki.apache.org/solr/ExtendedDisMax it simply says:
>
> "Extended DisMax is already configured in the example configuration, 
> with the name edismax."
>
> But this is not true for the solrconfig.xml in our setup (it only 
> contains an example for dismax, not edismax), and I downloaded the 
> latest solr zip file (solr 5.5.0), and it didn't have either dismax or 
> edismax in any of its solrconfig.xml files.
>
> Why is it so hard to find this configuration? Am I missing something 
> obvious?
>
> Regards
> /Jimi
>

Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found

[Jack Krupansky]

Consult the Confluence wiki for more recent doc:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/solr/The+Extended+DisMax+Query+Parser

You can specify all the parameters on your query request as in the
examples, or by placing the parameters in the "defaults" section for your
request handler in solrconfig.xml.


-- Jack Krupansky

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:42 PM, 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I want to setup ExtendedDisMax in our solr 4.6 server, but I can't seem to
> find any example configuration for this. Ie the configuration needed in
> solrconfig.xml. In the wiki page
> http://wiki.apache.org/solr/ExtendedDisMax it simply says:
>
> "Extended DisMax is already configured in the example configuration, with
> the name edismax."
>
> But this is not true for the solrconfig.xml in our setup (it only contains
> an example for dismax, not edismax), and I downloaded the latest solr zip
> file (solr 5.5.0), and it didn't have either dismax or edismax in any of
> its solrconfig.xml files.
>
> Why is it so hard to find this configuration? Am I missing something
> obvious?
>
> Regards
> /Jimi
>