Re: another simple Ruby mod
Bill, What is a STENT? royce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Last year at NAMES, they showed a piece of SS hypodermic needle that had been modified with an EDM, very intricate and precise cuts, and was now a STENT, Had to use a magnifying glass to see the cuts. This thing was cut in such a way that it could be expanded to a much larger size. The cuts were very intricate, and could only be seen with a magnifying glass. The thing was awesome to some who cuts with a chisel and a grinder. bill
Re: another simple Ruby mod
In a message dated 3/25/00 7:59:27 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What is a STENT? I believe I have the right word. It is the device they put inside of a vein or artery, and expand it with a balloon, to open up the vein if it is clogged. The Wire EDM cuts a special pattern of holes, slots in the needle so that it will hold its circular shape as it is expanded. Nearest example I can think of is the Chinese finger trap, push it together and it expands. The comments at the time were that the cuts, holes were all computer designed and controlled as they were getting cut. There was about half of the original metal gone. Very impressive to say the least bill
Re: another simple Ruby mod
Bill, Hope I never encounter one ! royce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/25/00 7:59:27 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What is a STENT? I believe I have the right word. It is the device they put inside of a vein or artery, and expand it with a balloon, to open up the vein if it is clogged. The Wire EDM cuts a special pattern of holes, slots in the needle so that it will hold its circular shape as it is expanded. Nearest example I can think of is the Chinese finger trap, push it together and it expands. The comments at the time were that the cuts, holes were all computer designed and controlled as they were getting cut. There was about half of the original metal gone. Very impressive to say the least bill
Re: another simple Ruby mod
In a message dated 3/25/00 9:18:02 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hope I never encounter one ! Actually I didn't mind encountering it in the form it was passed around it, very impressive to say the least. but hope no one on the list ever requires one. bill
Re: another simple Ruby mod
"Jonathan E. Bloom" wrote: FYI A modern wire EDM will hold tolerance to a couple tenths (of a thou.). They are remarkable. Jon Thanks, Jon, for the info. Now I want one. royce
Re: another simple Ruby mod
Bob, Any idea as to relative cost/tolerance of water jet vs laser or EDM? royce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/23/2000 3:21:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Water jet or laser are much preferable for most of the work we'd want to use it for. Many of my friends in the ride on scales are using water jet to cut their frames. It is excellent as there is little warpage. Bob
Re: another simple Ruby mod
Thanks for responding, Trent. All of this is very interesting to me. My questions have been posed because someday, I will have all the drawings and information necessary to build my loco (SP18) in quantity. The methods of manufacture available, their tolerance, and cost would determine how feasible such a project would be. Thanks for the perspective. royce Trent Dowler wrote: Hello Royce and all, At our shop we have "Bubba", who is pretty good with a torch, but his accuracy is +/- "aw, about so much" and not very fast at that. Depending on the erosion rate programmed, our wire EDM can hold +/-.0001" tolerance without a problem. Our sinker type EDM can hold about the same tolerance. Both machine's accuracy depends solely upon operator experience (and other factors that I won't get into here). We do not have a laser, but I have ordered parts that were laser burned and held +/- .015" tolerance in .05" thick stainless steel. I would tend to think that they are capable of much higher accuracies than that. Parts from our oxy/ocetylene burn table are expected to be held within +/- 1/16" of size, 1/32" parallelism within 36", and no more than 1/16" kerf in 2" thickness. Flatness can also be effected by the heat transferred into the part during the burn process. Our most experienced operator in the shop knows how to handle these problems before they develope. Good guy to have around. For those of you who are not familiar with wire EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining), the parts are cut with a thin brass wire that is .010" diameter. It doesn't matter how thick the part is, or how hard it is. The cutting is done by eroding the part's material away at a VERY controlled rate and position. It still amazes me every time I run ours. Later, Trent Royce Woodbury wrote: Salty, The only CNC machining of steel, for example, was done by a EDM machine. I am told they will hold a tolerance of .010, or maybe better. How does this relate to laser or oxy/acetylene accuracy? royce
Re: another simple Ruby mod
In a message dated 00-03-23 14:07:19 EST, you write: The only CNC machining of steel, for example, was done by a EDM machine. I am told they will hold a tolerance of .010, or maybe better. How does this relate to laser or oxy/acetylene accuracy? Royce- The parts we got from the laser machines were within .002" or better. Hole diameters were very accurate to within +- 001". It really depends a lot on the type of material and the setup of the machine. I have seen the results of a wire feed EDM used at the Submarine Repair Facility in Bangor WA that held a tolerance of less than .005" but it was not nearly as fast as the laser. Salty
Re: another simple Ruby mod
In a message dated 00-03-23 14:16:22 EST, you write: I'd be rich now instead of just good looking. Walt -- Just Keep telling yourself that and don't look in a mirror [:-) .
Re: another simple Ruby mod
In a message dated 3/24/00 10:41:30 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The only CNC machining of steel, for example, was done by a EDM machine. I am told they will hold a tolerance of .010, or maybe better. How does this relate to laser or oxy/acetylene accuracy? Last year at NAMES, they showed a piece of SS hypodermic needle that had been modified with an EDM, very intricate and precise cuts, and was now a STENT, Had to use a magnifying glass to see the cuts. This thing was cut in such a way that it could be expanded to a much larger size. The cuts were very intricate, and could only be seen with a magnifying glass. The thing was awesome to some who cuts with a chisel and a grinder. bill
Re: another simple Ruby mod
In a message dated 00-03-24 09:47:08 EST, you write: Any idea as to relative cost/tolerance of water jet vs laser or EDM? I am not Bob but I will do a little research on the subject and post it on the list. I have a number of sources that can supply the information. The question would be how thick of material and what kinds of material you intend to cut with it. You can reply off the list. Salty
Re: another simple Ruby mod
Hello Royce and list, I've learned (the hard way) that you should always buy the most machine that you can afford, but don't tie up all your investment money into one machine that a smaller machine might have been better suited. You will have to find your own personal "happy medium". Look at the possible uses for the machine in the future. You might be able to afford an expensive machine right now, but will it be "overkill" or will it hold the required tolerances for current (or future) projects? Will it take all of your financial resources to buy the machine? What costs are going to require immediate attention to get your already large investment underway (cutters, other machines for support, wire, compressed air, material, toolholding system, larger building, different electrical power requirements, training, etc., etc.). In the same mindset, if you can only afford a tracer type oxy acetylene burn table, but your tolerances on current projects are far closer than what's possible with the oxy setup, save your money and your sanity. Pay (or better yet, trade, machine time with) someone else to do the jobs that are outside the scope of your equipment. Take in extra jobs that your machine is capable of. They don't have to be anything to do with your direct interest. Your local factories are obviously a good source for jobs. That way you can pay for your machine, and hopefully make enough above costs to afford another machine to pull more manufacturing back in-house. Hey, a flourishing business, what a concept! Why didn't I think of that before? grin Second hand machines can be both a blessing and a hardship. I've only been involved in 3 pieces of used equipment (out of about 15 or so) that performed as advertised when delivered. The problem machines can require a lot of time and addition costs to get in operation. You really have to have the mentality and resources to deal with some of it. On the up side, you sure learn a lot when something doesn't go as planned. Didn't mean to ramble. Hope all this helps, or at least saves you a headache or two. If you have specific questions, feel free to e-mail directly. Later, Trent
Re: Re: another simple Ruby mod
OK, terminology time. When I write "pilot", I mean that pointy thing out in front of the pilot beam -- the "cowcatcher". The "pilot truck" is the thing that carries the wheels, underneath the smokebox and the "pilot deck". oOOoohhh, I get it! ;) I don't care for that type of pilot then. I want to extend what it has and put a lead truck under there. 2-4-x style. I think this is all standard terminology, but I may have made some of it up, and I tend to mix US and UK terminology into the least comprehensible mix possible. *chuckle* Who knows. :] -vance- Trot, the fox who has been known to make up his own terms now and again... -- TrotFox \ Always remember, /\-/\ AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a ( o o ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative." \./
Re: another simple Ruby mod
If you want to see some really neat cutting of anything from marshmallows to granite, stainless steel, everything including diamond, find out if there is a water jet unit in your area. Believe me it is all done with high pressure water and an abrasive. The beauty of it is that there is no HAZ (heat affected zone) like yo get with flame, lazer, etc. They are even cutting fabric for slothes with them. The water goes thru the cloth so fast it does not have time to get absorbed! I almost bought one in 1986 for $100,000.00, but the bank said it would never work! If I had gone ahead anyway, I'd be rich now instead of just good looking. Keep your steam up! Walt Mr. Lunk
Re: another simple Ruby mod
A modern wire EDM will hold tolerance to a couple tenths (of a thou.). They are remarkable. They are a pain in the exhaust pipe, however, for cutting things like locomotive frames or cabs, which require holes to be cut in the middle of the material. Wire EDM doesn't like to do that. Water jet or laser are much preferable for most of the work we'd want to use it for. regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: another simple Ruby mod
Agreed. Laser and water jet are very cool, especially with light weight parts and cut outs. My point was only to accuracy. If you want to cut a 2 inch slab of steel with a tight tolerance and VERY little heat affected zone, wire is the tool. Cutting a 1:20 loco frame from 1/8 stainless is much better suited to laser or water. For anyone interested, The Engravers Journal, Dec '99 featured an informative article, "Laser Engraving Buyers Guide." It is approached from the perspective of engraving, but the machines also cut. I haven't checked whether its available at their site, but try www.engraversjournal.com if you're curious. Jon - Original Message - From: VR Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 3:20 PM Subject: Re: another simple Ruby mod A modern wire EDM will hold tolerance to a couple tenths (of a thou.). They are remarkable. They are a pain in the exhaust pipe, however, for cutting things like locomotive frames or cabs, which require holes to be cut in the middle of the material. Wire EDM doesn't like to do that. Water jet or laser are much preferable for most of the work we'd want to use it for. regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: another simple Ruby mod
In a message dated 3/23/2000 3:21:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Water jet or laser are much preferable for most of the work we'd want to use it for. Many of my friends in the ride on scales are using water jet to cut their frames. It is excellent as there is little warpage. Bob
Re: another simple Ruby mod
Hello Royce and all, At our shop we have "Bubba", who is pretty good with a torch, but his accuracy is +/- "aw, about so much" and not very fast at that. Depending on the erosion rate programmed, our wire EDM can hold +/-.0001" tolerance without a problem. Our sinker type EDM can hold about the same tolerance. Both machine's accuracy depends solely upon operator experience (and other factors that I won't get into here). We do not have a laser, but I have ordered parts that were laser burned and held +/- .015" tolerance in .05" thick stainless steel. I would tend to think that they are capable of much higher accuracies than that. Parts from our oxy/ocetylene burn table are expected to be held within +/- 1/16" of size, 1/32" parallelism within 36", and no more than 1/16" kerf in 2" thickness. Flatness can also be effected by the heat transferred into the part during the burn process. Our most experienced operator in the shop knows how to handle these problems before they develope. Good guy to have around. For those of you who are not familiar with wire EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining), the parts are cut with a thin brass wire that is .010" diameter. It doesn't matter how thick the part is, or how hard it is. The cutting is done by eroding the part's material away at a VERY controlled rate and position. It still amazes me every time I run ours. Later, Trent Royce Woodbury wrote: Salty, The only CNC machining of steel, for example, was done by a EDM machine. I am told they will hold a tolerance of .010, or maybe better. How does this relate to laser or oxy/acetylene accuracy? royce
Re: another simple Ruby mod
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, VR Bass wrote:
Cut to the chase, Vance: I got inspired by the wooden pilot on the
no. 6 and drew up a couple in AutoCad. John Clark cut one for me
yesterday and it looks really good. It just snaps together and
seems to be pretty sturdy. When I'm sure it's "perfect", I'll have John
cut a batch for the rest of you Ruby owners. It should be pretty
inexpensive, but a cool addition to your Ruby conversions. Stay
tuned!
Sign me up and send a bill! =D Sounds like a winner to me. {:)
Geez, I haven't even fired the thing yet and I'm already looking for
things to add/modify. I never had this problem with HO scale! ;]
regards,
-vance-
Trot, the fox who's enthralled by being able to see all the parts!
TrotFox \ Always remember, /\-/\
AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a ( o o )
[EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative." \./
Re: another simple Ruby mod
VR Bass wrote: The Colorado Eastern, however, took lots of pictures of their second- hand engine (they didn't have much to do, it seems, with revenues of $98 per year and expenses of $6700). I guess film was mighty expensive in those days. John Clark cut one for me yesterday and it looks really good. It just snaps together and seems to be pretty sturdy. So, who's this "John Clark" fellow? I don't see him on the roster. Has he not yet been converted to steam? royce
Re: another simple Ruby mod
So, who's this "John Clark" fellow? I don't see him on the roster. Has he not yet been converted to steam? He is a live steamer, but he's not on the list. He owns Fall River Productions, a laser-cutting company he started a couple of years ago. As a small businessman trying to get his new business off the ground, he tends not to hang about in chat groups, though he's a very personable guy. Anyway, he owns the laser cutting machine that produces the Ruby cab, the upcoming caboose, etc. -vance-
Re: another simple Ruby mod
Ummm, this might not be the perfect solution for you, friend. I designed it with a link-and-pin coupler in mind. If you're going to use knuckle couplers, you're going to have to figure out how the mount them, and then the pilot might have to be modified to accomodate whatever you use. -vance-
Re: another simple Ruby mod
Oh, I was planning on having the pilot under an extended buffer beam. :/ I try to keep the curves large. :] Trot, the fox who's interested in seeing a pic... At 10:45 AM 03/22/2000 -0700, you wrote: Ummm, this might not be the perfect solution for you, friend. I designed it with a link-and-pin coupler in mind. If you're going to use knuckle couplers, you're going to have to figure out how the mount them, and then the pilot might have to be modified to accomodate whatever you use. -vance- TrotFox \ Always remember, /\-/\ AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a ( o o ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative." \_/
Re: another simple Ruby mod
In a message dated 00-03-22 17:36:12 EST, you write: Does his machine only cut wood, or could it be used like an EDM for metal? Royce I at one time looked into a laser that would cut thin sheet metal or wood. You better have real deep pockets if you want one of them. Freightliner has a couple of them that will cut up to 1/4 steel, they are very accurate but also very expensive. Not something for the home work shop. I looked at one for doing small wood parts for minature houses (doll houses) in 1" to 1' and it would have cost over $15,000 for one that would cut thin plywood (1/8") and the ones for metal I think were over $50,000. I think I will stick to my scroll saw untill I hit the lotery. [:-} They do work slick and fast. Salty
Re: another simple Ruby mod
Oh, I was planning on having the pilot under an extended buffer beam. :/ I try to keep the curves large. :] OK, terminology time. When I write "pilot", I mean that pointy thing out in front of the pilot beam -- the "cowcatcher". The "pilot truck" is the thing that carries the wheels, underneath the smokebox and the "pilot deck". I think this is all standard terminology, but I may have made some of it up, and I tend to mix US and UK terminology into the least comprehensible mix possible. -vance-
another simple Ruby mod
Hi, folks, I got a copy of "The Colorado Eastern" recently, which is pretty interesting reading. Their only engine was ex DRG No.6, "Ute", a Baldwin 2-4-0 a class or two larger than our Ruby. I had never seen so many good pics of the DRG 2-4-0s before. They were the Grande's first class of engines and were retired pretty quickly so there's little photographic record of them. The Colorado Eastern, however, took lots of pictures of their second- hand engine (they didn't have much to do, it seems, with revenues of $98 per year and expenses of $6700). Cut to the chase, Vance: I got inspired by the wooden pilot on the no. 6 and drew up a couple in AutoCad. John Clark cut one for me yesterday and it looks really good. It just snaps together and seems to be pretty sturdy. When I'm sure it's "perfect", I'll have John cut a batch for the rest of you Ruby owners. It should be pretty inexpensive, but a cool addition to your Ruby conversions. Stay tuned! regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
