RE: IDE

[Prasenjit Narwade]

WSAD 5.0/5.1 



-Original Message-
From: Gonzalez Comesaña [mailto:Gonzalez Comesaña]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:31 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: IDE


Hello, 
  Someone knows a good editor for Java and Struts ??  I use Jdeveloper 9.03
but I would like change it. 

Thanks 

Sergio. 





Aquest missatge electrònic pot  contenir informació confidencial o
privilegiada.
Si vostè no és el destinatari del  missatge, o l'ha rebut per error, si us
plau
notifiqui-ho al remitent i destrueixi el missatge amb tot el seu contingut.
Està completament  prohibida  qualsevol  còpia, ús o distribució no
autoritzada
del contingut d'aquest missatge electrònic.


Este mensaje electrónico puede contener información confidencial o
privilegiada.
Si usted  no es  el destinatario de este mensaje o lo ha recibido por error,
por
favor notifíquelo al remitente y destruya el mensaje con todo su contenido.
Queda  expresamente  prohibida  cualquier  copia, utilización o
distribución no
autorizada del contenido de este mensaje electrónico.


This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
If you  are  not the  intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in
error)
please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail.
Any  unauthorized  copying,  disclosure  or distribution of the material in
this
e-mail is strictly forbidden.



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Robert S. Sfeir]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I use nothing BUT IntelliJ IDEA.  I love that thing and you can';t pry
it out of my dead cold hands.
You have 2 choices, you can 3.0.5 which is the stable release, or you
can try the free EAP (Early Access Release) which is in huge changes
with lots of new support including Tomcat 5 with JSR45 debugging support.
In either case the Struts Console integrates Beautifuly with it.

R

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

| Robert, do let us know how you will find the IntelliJ IDEA...
|
| I intend to try as well :-)
|
| Regards,
|
|
|
|
|
|
| "Robert S. Sfeir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| 11/20/2003 09:12 AM
| Please respond to "Struts Users Mailing List"
|
|
| To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|         cc:
| Subject:Re: IDE
|
|
| Nice complicated answers.
|
| Just get IntelliJ IDEA and use the Struts Console.
|
| R
|
| Gonzalez wrote:
|
| | Hello,
| |   Someone knows a good editor for Java and Struts ??  I use Jdeveloper
| 9.03 but I would like change it.
| |
| | Thanks
| |
| | Sergio.
| |
| |
| |
| |
| -
|
- 

| | Aquest missatge electrònic pot  contenir informació confidencial o
| privilegiada.
| | Si vostè no és el destinatari del  missatge, o l'ha rebut per error,
| si us plau
| | notifiqui-ho al remitent i destrueixi el missatge amb tot el seu
| contingut.
| | Està completament  prohibida  qualsevol  còpia, ús o distribució no
| autoritzada
| | del contingut d'aquest missatge electrònic.
| |
| -
|
- 

| | Este mensaje electrónico puede contener información confidencial o
| privilegiada.
| | Si usted  no es  el destinatario de este mensaje o lo ha recibido por
| error, por
| | favor notifíquelo al remitente y destruya el mensaje con todo su
| contenido.
| | Queda  expresamente  prohibida  cualquier  copia, utilización o
| distribución no
| | autorizada del contenido de este mensaje electrónico.
| |
| -
|
- 

| | This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
| | If you  are  not the  intended recipient (or have received this e-mail
| in error)
| | please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail.
| | Any  unauthorized  copying,  disclosure  or distribution of the
| material in this
| | e-mail is strictly forbidden.
| |
| -
|
- 

| |
| | -
| | To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| | For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| |

- -
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQE/vBZ3+cV9vuB27SARAnivAKDHib9TGDZV0+Y51VEa8bfIAtyOjACgob0U
1Mkh+7rhmLLx8dqphKjQrec=
=HEmN
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[foongkim]

Robert, do let us know how you will find the IntelliJ IDEA...

I intend to try as well :-)

Regards,






"Robert S. Sfeir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11/20/2003 09:12 AM
Please respond to "Struts Users Mailing List"

 
To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    cc: 
Subject:Re: IDE


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Nice complicated answers.

Just get IntelliJ IDEA and use the Struts Console.

R

Gonzalez wrote:

| Hello,
|   Someone knows a good editor for Java and Struts ??  I use Jdeveloper
9.03 but I would like change it.
|
| Thanks
|
| Sergio.
|
|
|
|
- 

| Aquest missatge electrònic pot  contenir informació confidencial o
privilegiada.
| Si vostè no és el destinatari del  missatge, o l'ha rebut per error,
si us plau
| notifiqui-ho al remitent i destrueixi el missatge amb tot el seu
contingut.
| Està completament  prohibida  qualsevol  còpia, ús o distribució no
autoritzada
| del contingut d'aquest missatge electrònic.
|
- 

| Este mensaje electrónico puede contener información confidencial o
privilegiada.
| Si usted  no es  el destinatario de este mensaje o lo ha recibido por
error, por
| favor notifíquelo al remitente y destruya el mensaje con todo su
contenido.
| Queda  expresamente  prohibida  cualquier  copia, utilización o
distribución no
| autorizada del contenido de este mensaje electrónico.
|
- 

| This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
| If you  are  not the  intended recipient (or have received this e-mail
in error)
| please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail.
| Any  unauthorized  copying,  disclosure  or distribution of the
material in this
| e-mail is strictly forbidden.
|
- 

|
| -
| To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/vBUE+cV9vuB27SARAupaAJ9uYn3CBX6Zb+0lyUJQgxlSRkTaUgCfdVny
3/lmot1dFkZs6WYgWT+Y/0U=
=Rrlg
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Robert S. Sfeir]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Nice complicated answers.

Just get IntelliJ IDEA and use the Struts Console.

R

Gonzalez wrote:

| Hello,
|   Someone knows a good editor for Java and Struts ??  I use Jdeveloper
9.03 but I would like change it.
|
| Thanks
|
| Sergio.
|
|
|
|
- 

| Aquest missatge electrònic pot  contenir informació confidencial o
privilegiada.
| Si vostè no és el destinatari del  missatge, o l'ha rebut per error,
si us plau
| notifiqui-ho al remitent i destrueixi el missatge amb tot el seu
contingut.
| Està completament  prohibida  qualsevol  còpia, ús o distribució no
autoritzada
| del contingut d'aquest missatge electrònic.
|
- 

| Este mensaje electrónico puede contener información confidencial o
privilegiada.
| Si usted  no es  el destinatario de este mensaje o lo ha recibido por
error, por
| favor notifíquelo al remitente y destruya el mensaje con todo su
contenido.
| Queda  expresamente  prohibida  cualquier  copia, utilización o
distribución no
| autorizada del contenido de este mensaje electrónico.
|
- 

| This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
| If you  are  not the  intended recipient (or have received this e-mail
in error)
| please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail.
| Any  unauthorized  copying,  disclosure  or distribution of the
material in this
| e-mail is strictly forbidden.
|
- 

|
| -
| To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/vBUE+cV9vuB27SARAupaAJ9uYn3CBX6Zb+0lyUJQgxlSRkTaUgCfdVny
3/lmot1dFkZs6WYgWT+Y/0U=
=Rrlg
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Adam L]

I personally use Gel (www.gexperts.com).  It understand taglibs, it
understands java, it's native code for windows, it has code completion,
integrates with ant and cvs, jsp editing, has a decent xml viewer
(collapse/expand branches), validates xml (based on well formed and
completeness).   The only thing it doesn't have is direct struts
integration, beyond reading and code-completing taglibs.But, with
xdoclet, it's all good.

 my $0.04.


- Original Message -
From: ; "Sergio Eduardo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:31 AM
Subject: IDE


Hello,
  Someone knows a good editor for Java and Struts ??  I use Jdeveloper 9.03
but I would like change it.

Thanks

Sergio.





Aquest missatge electrònic pot  contenir informació confidencial o
privilegiada.
Si vostè no és el destinatari del  missatge, o l'ha rebut per error, si us
plau
notifiqui-ho al remitent i destrueixi el missatge amb tot el seu contingut.
Està completament  prohibida  qualsevol  còpia, ús o distribució no
autoritzada
del contingut d'aquest missatge electrònic.


Este mensaje electrónico puede contener información confidencial o
privilegiada.
Si usted  no es  el destinatario de este mensaje o lo ha recibido por error,
por
favor notifíquelo al remitente y destruya el mensaje con todo su contenido.
Queda  expresamente  prohibida  cualquier  copia, utilización o
distribución no
autorizada del contenido de este mensaje electrónico.


This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
If you  are  not the  intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in
error)
please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail.
Any  unauthorized  copying,  disclosure  or distribution of the material in
this
e-mail is strictly forbidden.



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: IDE

[foongkim]

Gonzalez Comesaña, Sergio Eduardo ,

I totally agree with Larry. But if you want to try Struts 1.1 with 
NetBean3.5.1, this is the comments;

http://www.netbeans.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=35952



--- Additional Comments From Petr Jiricka 2003-09-22 23:32 PDT ---
The short answer is that you are right, we should support Struts 1.1
and it's a bad thing that we don't. 




For Eclipse, I think i suffer from setting the right configuration 
trust me, you have to master the IDE itself before you can code Struts, if 
not you will not sure the error is because of the setting or the IDE's 
configuration. 

Have Fun..





"Larry Meadors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11/19/2003 10:43 PM
Please respond to "Struts Users Mailing List"

 
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:RE: IDE


Just bear in mind that all IDEs suck and that you will not find one that 
meets all of your needs.

For what I need to do today, eclipse is the one that sucks the *least*, 
but make no mistake: it still sucks. Nice fast java editing. XML and jsp 
editors totally suck though.

Netbeans is good if you are learning jstl, and need code completion in jsp 
tags. It's xml editor is still far superior to anything I have seen in 
eclipse. But it is slow - even the newest releases are slower than 
eclipse. I know - I have used them.

Larry

-Original Message-
From: Gonzalez Comesaña, Sergio Eduardo 
Subject: IDE

Hello, 
  Someone knows a good editor for Java and Struts ??  I use Jdeveloper 
9.03 but I would like change it. 


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: IDE

[Ramadoss Chinnakuzhandai]

There is something you cant buy(?)for everything there is an eclipse
-ram


-Original Message-
From: Hubert Rabago [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 10:13 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: IDE


Sergio,

If you're looking for an IDE with good Struts support, I'd suggest you look at
WSAD.  It's based on Eclipse.  It's got decent knowledge of what struts is and
what your config.xml is supposed to have in it.  However, I'm pretty convinced
it's also one of those IDEs that give IDEs a bad name (and there's too many of
them).
If you're looking for a good Java IDE/editor, download and evaluate IDEA 
(http://www.intellij.com).  It's the type of IDE us IDE-haters can actually
appreciate.

Here are some more points of view:
http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/faqs/kickstart.html#ide
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?StrutsMyFavoriteIDE

Hubert

--- Larry Meadors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just bear in mind that all IDEs suck and that you will not find one that meets
> all of your needs.
> 
> For what I need to do today, eclipse is the one that sucks the *least*, but
> make no mistake: it still sucks. Nice fast java editing. XML and jsp editors
> totally suck though.
> 
> Netbeans is good if you are learning jstl, and need code completion in jsp
> tags. It's xml editor is still far superior to anything I have seen in eclipse.
> But it is slow - even the newest releases are slower than eclipse. I know - I
> have used them.
> 
> Larry
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Gonzalez Comesaña, Sergio Eduardo 
> Subject: IDE
> 
> Hello, 
>   Someone knows a good editor for Java and Struts ??  I use Jdeveloper 9.03 but
> I would like change it. 
> 
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: IDE

[Shane Mingins]

> -Original Message-
> From: Larry Meadors [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, 20 November 2003 3:44 a.m.
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: IDE
> For what I need to do today, eclipse is the one that sucks the *least*,
> but make no mistake: it still sucks. Nice fast java editing. XML and jsp
> editors totally suck though.
> 

What is the problem with the XML and JSP editors?   Is there lack of code
completion?  If so have a look at www.intellij.com

Shane


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: IDE

[Hubert Rabago]

Sergio,

If you're looking for an IDE with good Struts support, I'd suggest you look at
WSAD.  It's based on Eclipse.  It's got decent knowledge of what struts is and
what your config.xml is supposed to have in it.  However, I'm pretty convinced
it's also one of those IDEs that give IDEs a bad name (and there's too many of
them).
If you're looking for a good Java IDE/editor, download and evaluate IDEA 
(http://www.intellij.com).  It's the type of IDE us IDE-haters can actually
appreciate.

Here are some more points of view:
http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/faqs/kickstart.html#ide
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?StrutsMyFavoriteIDE

Hubert

--- Larry Meadors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just bear in mind that all IDEs suck and that you will not find one that meets
> all of your needs.
> 
> For what I need to do today, eclipse is the one that sucks the *least*, but
> make no mistake: it still sucks. Nice fast java editing. XML and jsp editors
> totally suck though.
> 
> Netbeans is good if you are learning jstl, and need code completion in jsp
> tags. It's xml editor is still far superior to anything I have seen in eclipse.
> But it is slow - even the newest releases are slower than eclipse. I know - I
> have used them.
> 
> Larry
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Gonzalez Comesaña, Sergio Eduardo 
> Subject: IDE
> 
> Hello, 
>   Someone knows a good editor for Java and Struts ??  I use Jdeveloper 9.03 but
> I would like change it. 
> 
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: IDE

[Larry Meadors]

Just bear in mind that all IDEs suck and that you will not find one that meets all of 
your needs.

For what I need to do today, eclipse is the one that sucks the *least*, but make no 
mistake: it still sucks. Nice fast java editing. XML and jsp editors totally suck 
though.

Netbeans is good if you are learning jstl, and need code completion in jsp tags. It's 
xml editor is still far superior to anything I have seen in eclipse. But it is slow - 
even the newest releases are slower than eclipse. I know - I have used them.

Larry

-Original Message-
From: Gonzalez Comesaña, Sergio Eduardo 
Subject: IDE

Hello, 
  Someone knows a good editor for Java and Struts ??  I use Jdeveloper 9.03 but I 
would like change it. 


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Firat TIRYAKI]

I think Struts Studio will satisfy your needs for beginning.

F.

- Original Message - 
From: "Manjunath Bhat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: IDE


Eclipse + Lamboz + Easy Struts are good combination I would suggest you.

MB

-Original Message-
From: Gonzalez Comesaña, Sergio Eduardo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:01 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: IDE

Hello,
  Someone knows a good editor for Java and Struts ??  I use Jdeveloper 9.03
but I would like change it.

Thanks

Sergio.





Aquest missatge electrònic pot  contenir informació confidencial o
privilegiada.
Si vostè no és el destinatari del  missatge, o l'ha rebut per error, si us
plau
notifiqui-ho al remitent i destrueixi el missatge amb tot el seu contingut.
Està completament  prohibida  qualsevol  còpia, ús o distribució no
autoritzada
del contingut d'aquest missatge electrònic.


Este mensaje electrónico puede contener información confidencial o
privilegiada.
Si usted  no es  el destinatario de este mensaje o lo ha recibido por error,
por
favor notifíquelo al remitente y destruya el mensaje con todo su contenido.
Queda  expresamente  prohibida  cualquier  copia, utilización o
distribución no
autorizada del contenido de este mensaje electrónico.


This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
If you  are  not the  intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in
error)
please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail.
Any  unauthorized  copying,  disclosure  or distribution of the material in
this
e-mail is strictly forbidden.



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Duncan Mills]

Sergio have you checked out the 10g release of JDeveloper?
http://otn.oracle.com/products/jdev/index.html

There is a visual pageflow modeler for Struts as well as a lot of other new
features

Regards

Duncan Mills
- Original Message - 
From: Gonzalez Comesaña ; Sergio Eduardo
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 10:31 AM
Subject: IDE


Hello,
  Someone knows a good editor for Java and Struts ??  I use Jdeveloper 9.03
but I would like change it.

Thanks

Sergio.





Aquest missatge electrònic pot  contenir informació confidencial o
privilegiada.
Si vostè no és el destinatari del  missatge, o l'ha rebut per error, si us
plau
notifiqui-ho al remitent i destrueixi el missatge amb tot el seu contingut.
Està completament  prohibida  qualsevol  còpia, ús o distribució no
autoritzada
del contingut d'aquest missatge electrònic.


Este mensaje electrónico puede contener información confidencial o
privilegiada.
Si usted  no es  el destinatario de este mensaje o lo ha recibido por error,
por
favor notifíquelo al remitente y destruya el mensaje con todo su contenido.
Queda  expresamente  prohibida  cualquier  copia, utilización o
distribución no
autorizada del contenido de este mensaje electrónico.


This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
If you  are  not the  intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in
error)
please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail.
Any  unauthorized  copying,  disclosure  or distribution of the material in
this
e-mail is strictly forbidden.



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: IDE

[Manjunath Bhat]

Eclipse + Lamboz + Easy Struts are good combination I would suggest you.

MB 

-Original Message-
From: Gonzalez Comesaña, Sergio Eduardo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:01 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: IDE

Hello, 
  Someone knows a good editor for Java and Struts ??  I use Jdeveloper 9.03 but I 
would like change it. 

Thanks 

Sergio. 




Aquest missatge electrònic pot  contenir informació confidencial o privilegiada.
Si vostè no és el destinatari del  missatge, o l'ha rebut per error, si us plau
notifiqui-ho al remitent i destrueixi el missatge amb tot el seu contingut.
Està completament  prohibida  qualsevol  còpia, ús o distribució no autoritzada
del contingut d'aquest missatge electrònic.

Este mensaje electrónico puede contener información confidencial o privilegiada.
Si usted  no es  el destinatario de este mensaje o lo ha recibido por error, por
favor notifíquelo al remitente y destruya el mensaje con todo su contenido.
Queda  expresamente  prohibida  cualquier  copia, utilización o  distribución no
autorizada del contenido de este mensaje electrónico.

This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
If you  are  not the  intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error)
please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail.
Any  unauthorized  copying,  disclosure  or distribution of the material in this
e-mail is strictly forbidden.


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Nick Heudecker]

> 
> Of course, as everyone knows, *REAL* programmers use vi (which is way better
> than emacs)... ;->
> 

Sorry, but I had to respond to this. :)

Emacs has an excellent Java development environment called JDE:
(http://jdee.sunsite.dk).  It also has context-sensitive completion,
templates, IRC clients, nntp/mail clients, a shell (eshell), excellent
integration with CVS, Subversion, ClearCase, Perforce, etc...  Oh, I
forgot to mention the web browsers, games, calendars, and integrated
wiki.  This may sound shocking, but it also has a text editor. :)

Before you complain about the operating footprint of EMACS, compare it
with Eclipse or NetBeans.  Certainly, vi has a smaller footprint than
EMACS, but how big does a wrapper around cat and ed need to be? :)

>From EMACS faith.el...

__
24:34 EMACS is the light of the elispland and the editland.  Its light
may be compared to a niche that enshrines a lamp, the lamp within a
crystal of star-like brilliance.  It is lit from a blessed olive tree
neither eastern nor western.  Its very oil would almost shine forth,
though no fire touched it.  Light upon light; EMACS guides to Its
light whom It will.
__
20:114 Do not be quick to recite the Emacs-Manual before its
revelation is completed, but rather say: "EMACS, increase my
knowledge."
__


Just trying to bring light to the heathens.  I'm done now. :)


-- 
Nick Heudecker
SystemMobile, Inc.
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://www.systemmobile.com

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Sergi]

Eclipse es muy bueno, i el NetBeans. Necesitaras un plug-in para struts,
miralo en la pagina de eclipse. Se llama easy-struts me parece.
Yo uso eclipse y esta muy bien. www.eclipse.org
D'acord??
Sergi


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: IDE

[Andrew Hill]

Eclipse is my favourite.

(NetBeans also has a lot of fanatical followers).


Of course, as everyone knows, *REAL* programmers use vi (which is way better
than emacs)... ;->


-Original Message-
From: Gonzalez Comesaña [mailto:Gonzalez Comesaña]
Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:31
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: IDE


Hello,
  Someone knows a good editor for Java and Struts ??  I use Jdeveloper 9.03
but I would like change it.

Thanks

Sergio.





Aquest missatge electrònic pot  contenir informació confidencial o
privilegiada.
Si vostè no és el destinatari del  missatge, o l'ha rebut per error, si us
plau
notifiqui-ho al remitent i destrueixi el missatge amb tot el seu contingut.
Està completament  prohibida  qualsevol  còpia, ús o distribució no
autoritzada
del contingut d'aquest missatge electrònic.


Este mensaje electrónico puede contener información confidencial o
privilegiada.
Si usted  no es  el destinatario de este mensaje o lo ha recibido por error,
por
favor notifíquelo al remitente y destruya el mensaje con todo su contenido.
Queda  expresamente  prohibida  cualquier  copia, utilización o
distribución no
autorizada del contenido de este mensaje electrónico.


This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
If you  are  not the  intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in
error)
please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail.
Any  unauthorized  copying,  disclosure  or distribution of the material in
this
e-mail is strictly forbidden.



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Kirk Wylie]

Voinea, Marina wrote:

However, my company has opted for Welogic (as opposed to Websphere) -  
which
has 1 year free trial period, 


FWIW, I think you'll find if you look closely that the "1 year free 
trial period" is actually a "free one-year development license," meaning 
that you can't deploy into production. I don't think they're going to 
send some licensing goons against you, but it's not entirely free for a 
year.

What you're probably getting is a "BEA dev2dev Download Only" 
subscription (which is included automatically just by downloading WLS), 
which is non-production only: 
http://dev2dev.bea.com/subscriptions/levels.jsp

But I could have quite easily misunderstood your statement.

Kirk Wylie

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: IDE

[Voinea, Marina]

 Well, the initial question was about the existence of an "open IDE" for
Struts. (Like Eclipse, XDoclet probably...).
 M7 is very interesting because of the "drag and drop" capabilities for JSP
editing etc...
However, my company has opted for Welogic (as opposed to Websphere) -  which
has 1 year free trial period, we use Eclipse as our IDE, (which is approx
40$ subscription per year), and I do not think I stand a chance to convince
them for a product with a 1 month free trial and 1495$ for the Professional
version, even if I'd like to.

 So the question still stands: any other competitive IDE for STRUTS / JSP
"drag and drop " editing? 
(XDoclet is "language intensive", so the productivity gets lower before it
gets any better).

Thanks,
Marina

 

-Original Message-
From: Kirk Wylie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 6:31 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: IDE


Is there a price that you would feel comfortable paying, or by "a bit 
more open" do you mean that you're looking for a pure open 
source/free-as-in-beer solution?

In addition, our marketing people tell me that we are currently selling 
4.0 Professional for $1495.

Kirk Wylie
M7 Corporation

Voinea, Marina wrote:

> But that's expensive : 2000 $ (or else, evaluation for 1 month only). Is
> there anything a bit more "open" ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Marina
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kirk Wylie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 4:53 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: IDE
> 
> 
> 
> You might want to evaluate the 4.0 release of the M7 Application
> Assembly Suite, Professional Edition.
> http://www.m7.com/
> 
> 
> Kirk Wylie
> M7 Corporation
> 
> virupaksha wrote:
> 
>  > Dear All,
>  >
>  > I am working on struts using exadel struts studio,
>  > Can any one know other open IDE for struts ..?
>  > especially for designing View(Drag & drop approach..?)
>  >
>  > let me know please..
>  >
>  > Regards,
>  > viru
>  >
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[virupaksha]

Dear Barry,

 Eclipse supports  drag & drop option for designing  view..?

Regards,
viru

- Original Message -
From: "Barry Volpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 5:23 AM
Subject: Re: IDE


> Eclipse, Tomcat, JBoss, Xdoclet all open and free.
>
> Works for me..
>
> Barry
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Voinea, Marina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 2:19 PM
> Subject: RE: IDE
>
>
> > But that's expensive : 2000 $ (or else, evaluation for 1 month only). Is
> > there anything a bit more "open" ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Marina
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Kirk Wylie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 4:53 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: IDE
> >
> >
> > 
> > You might want to evaluate the 4.0 release of the M7 Application
> > Assembly Suite, Professional Edition.
> > http://www.m7.com/
> > 
> >
> > Kirk Wylie
> > M7 Corporation
> >
> > virupaksha wrote:
> >
> > > Dear All,
> > >
> > > I am working on struts using exadel struts studio,
> > > Can any one know other open IDE for struts ..?
> > > especially for designing View(Drag & drop approach..?)
> > >
> > > let me know please..
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > viru
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Kirk Wylie]

Is there a price that you would feel comfortable paying, or by "a bit 
more open" do you mean that you're looking for a pure open 
source/free-as-in-beer solution?

In addition, our marketing people tell me that we are currently selling 
4.0 Professional for $1495.

Kirk Wylie
M7 Corporation
Voinea, Marina wrote:

But that's expensive : 2000 $ (or else, evaluation for 1 month only). Is
there anything a bit more "open" ?
Thanks,
Marina
-Original Message-
From: Kirk Wylie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 4:53 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: IDE

You might want to evaluate the 4.0 release of the M7 Application
Assembly Suite, Professional Edition.
http://www.m7.com/

Kirk Wylie
M7 Corporation
virupaksha wrote:

 > Dear All,
 >
 > I am working on struts using exadel struts studio,
 > Can any one know other open IDE for struts ..?
 > especially for designing View(Drag & drop approach..?)
 >
 > let me know please..
 >
 > Regards,
 > viru
 >


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Barry Volpe]

Eclipse, Tomcat, JBoss, Xdoclet all open and free.

Works for me..

Barry


- Original Message - 
From: "Voinea, Marina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: IDE


> But that's expensive : 2000 $ (or else, evaluation for 1 month only). Is
> there anything a bit more "open" ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Marina
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kirk Wylie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 4:53 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: IDE
> 
> 
> 
> You might want to evaluate the 4.0 release of the M7 Application 
> Assembly Suite, Professional Edition.
> http://www.m7.com/
> 
> 
> Kirk Wylie
> M7 Corporation
> 
> virupaksha wrote:
> 
> > Dear All,
> > 
> > I am working on struts using exadel struts studio,
> > Can any one know other open IDE for struts ..?
> > especially for designing View(Drag & drop approach..?)
> > 
> > let me know please..
> > 
> > Regards,
> > viru
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: IDE

[Voinea, Marina]

But that's expensive : 2000 $ (or else, evaluation for 1 month only). Is
there anything a bit more "open" ?

Thanks,
Marina

-Original Message-
From: Kirk Wylie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 4:53 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: IDE



You might want to evaluate the 4.0 release of the M7 Application 
Assembly Suite, Professional Edition.
http://www.m7.com/


Kirk Wylie
M7 Corporation

virupaksha wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
> I am working on struts using exadel struts studio,
> Can any one know other open IDE for struts ..?
> especially for designing View(Drag & drop approach..?)
> 
> let me know please..
> 
> Regards,
> viru
> 



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Kirk Wylie]

You might want to evaluate the 4.0 release of the M7 Application 
Assembly Suite, Professional Edition.
http://www.m7.com/


Kirk Wylie
M7 Corporation
virupaksha wrote:

Dear All,

I am working on struts using exadel struts studio,
Can any one know other open IDE for struts ..?
especially for designing View(Drag & drop approach..?)
let me know please..

Regards,
viru


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Duncan Mills]

Chris - you'll be glad to know the browser command line has been fixed for the 
production version.  The other issues I'll take off-line with you 

Regards

Duncan Mills

From: Christian Bollmeyer 
To: Struts Users Mailing List 
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: IDE


Am Dienstag, 14. Oktober 2003 16:43 schrieb Duncan Mills:

Oracle JDev 10g has quickly become my favorite Struts IDE,
even running under Linux quite alright at home though this is
not a supported platform yet. That is, if you steer clear from
the Metal L&F and can live with the fact that 10g always
forgets the browser command line (even if you manually
edit the configuration file, don't remember how it's called
now). Otherwise, it's great, and considering Struts support,
it's something like Struts Studio++, though I usually don't
use the integrated modelers and do the UML work with
Poseidon UML 2.0 at home. Still, probably the best
allround Java IDE around.

Considering 'free': in my understanding, JDev is free
for download (well...) and using it for an unlimited
evaluation period. For production use, you must
license it. That's ok, I think. Comes the price tag:
IIRC, JDev 9i was sold for $ 995, including support.
How will it be with 10g in this direction? Not that
I'm directly affected, as we're Oracle Alliance
partners and get the whole range of Oracle
software anyway, but the price tag for the final
version of 10g would still be interesting. Generally,
it really would be helpful if Oracle could just say:
using our products costs this per named user
and that per CPU, and you get an x% rebate for
ASFU licenses. But if Oracle says 'free', it should
really be 'free' in the common understanding of the
term, and not: free to download (never got charged
for just downloading anything, IIRC) and evaluation.
So better say: JDev costs $ , but we grant
you a free, unlimited evalutation license period.
This way round :-)  

Finally, I'll misuse the list for some JDev-related
problem I couldn't find any solution for neither at
OTN nor by consulting orionserver.com (noting
that OTN searches are our last resort, as even
UltraSearch seems to be always presenting
the *least* relevant topics first, with a special
knack for early 8.1.5 documentation). The
problem is that we are currently porting a
subproject from Sun ONE to JDev. Everything
went well, but we still have a Bean factory that's
accessed via JNDI. The general idea is that
my developers should be able to to not just
write their code in JDev, but also make use
of its 'Run' or 'Debug' features. This means,
everything has to run in the integrated OC4J
container, of course.  So my question is:
how do you tell OC4J about additional
JNDI resources available that are not 
DataSources (in Sun ONE | Tomcat, you do
this via server.xml). We already found out that 
-oc4j-app.xml seems to be part
of the solution, but adding the fitting
 entries there only led to
'type unknown' JNDI errors in the JSP stack
trace. Yes, we even added everything feasible
to /lib and system classpath. Do you possibly
know a solution? Currently, the application
still runs in Tomcat, and we debug it via
log4j, ie. the 'old way'. Did cost us 3 
man-days already, btw.

-- Chris

> Depends on your interpretation of the word open in this context, if 
> it's "Free to download and evaluate" then try Oracle JDeveloper 10g
> Preview release http://otn.oracle.com/products/jdev
> If the definition is "Product that I will never, ever, ever have to
> pay for" then ignore this.
>
> Regards
>
> Duncan Mills
> - Original Message -
> From: "virupaksha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:48 AM
> Subject: IDE
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> I am working on struts using exadel struts studio,
> Can any one know other open IDE for struts ..?
> especially for designing View(Drag & drop approach..?)
>
> let me know please..
>
> Regards,
> viru
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Martin Gainty]

http://otn.oracle.com/tech/java/oc4j/htdocs/how-to-j2ca.html

viel Glueck

-Martin
- Original Message - 
From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: IDE


> Am Dienstag, 14. Oktober 2003 16:43 schrieb Duncan Mills:
> 
> Oracle JDev 10g has quickly become my favorite Struts IDE,
> even running under Linux quite alright at home though this is
> not a supported platform yet. That is, if you steer clear from
> the Metal L&F and can live with the fact that 10g always
> forgets the browser command line (even if you manually
> edit the configuration file, don't remember how it's called
> now). Otherwise, it's great, and considering Struts support,
> it's something like Struts Studio++, though I usually don't
> use the integrated modelers and do the UML work with
> Poseidon UML 2.0 at home. Still, probably the best
> allround Java IDE around.
> 
> Considering 'free': in my understanding, JDev is free
> for download (well...) and using it for an unlimited
> evaluation period. For production use, you must
> license it. That's ok, I think. Comes the price tag:
> IIRC, JDev 9i was sold for $ 995, including support.
> How will it be with 10g in this direction? Not that
> I'm directly affected, as we're Oracle Alliance
> partners and get the whole range of Oracle
> software anyway, but the price tag for the final
> version of 10g would still be interesting. Generally,
> it really would be helpful if Oracle could just say:
> using our products costs this per named user
> and that per CPU, and you get an x% rebate for
> ASFU licenses. But if Oracle says 'free', it should
> really be 'free' in the common understanding of the
> term, and not: free to download (never got charged
> for just downloading anything, IIRC) and evaluation.
> So better say: JDev costs $ , but we grant
> you a free, unlimited evalutation license period.
> This way round :-)  
> 
> Finally, I'll misuse the list for some JDev-related
> problem I couldn't find any solution for neither at
> OTN nor by consulting orionserver.com (noting
> that OTN searches are our last resort, as even
> UltraSearch seems to be always presenting
> the *least* relevant topics first, with a special
> knack for early 8.1.5 documentation). The
> problem is that we are currently porting a
> subproject from Sun ONE to JDev. Everything
> went well, but we still have a Bean factory that's
> accessed via JNDI. The general idea is that
> my developers should be able to to not just
> write their code in JDev, but also make use
> of its 'Run' or 'Debug' features. This means,
> everything has to run in the integrated OC4J
> container, of course.  So my question is:
> how do you tell OC4J about additional
> JNDI resources available that are not 
> DataSources (in Sun ONE | Tomcat, you do
> this via server.xml). We already found out that 
> -oc4j-app.xml seems to be part
> of the solution, but adding the fitting
>  entries there only led to
> 'type unknown' JNDI errors in the JSP stack
> trace. Yes, we even added everything feasible
> to /lib and system classpath. Do you possibly
> know a solution? Currently, the application
> still runs in Tomcat, and we debug it via
> log4j, ie. the 'old way'. Did cost us 3 
> man-days already, btw.
> 
> -- Chris
> 
> > Depends on your interpretation of the word open in this context, if 
> > it's "Free to download and evaluate" then try Oracle JDeveloper 10g
> > Preview release http://otn.oracle.com/products/jdev
> > If the definition is "Product that I will never, ever, ever have to
> > pay for" then ignore this.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Duncan Mills
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "virupaksha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:48 AM
> > Subject: IDE
> >
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I am working on struts using exadel struts studio,
> > Can any one know other open IDE for struts ..?
> > especially for designing View(Drag & drop approach..?)
> >
> > let me know please..
> >
> > Regards,
> > viru
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Christian Bollmeyer]

Am Dienstag, 14. Oktober 2003 16:43 schrieb Duncan Mills:

Oracle JDev 10g has quickly become my favorite Struts IDE,
even running under Linux quite alright at home though this is
not a supported platform yet. That is, if you steer clear from
the Metal L&F and can live with the fact that 10g always
forgets the browser command line (even if you manually
edit the configuration file, don't remember how it's called
now). Otherwise, it's great, and considering Struts support,
it's something like Struts Studio++, though I usually don't
use the integrated modelers and do the UML work with
Poseidon UML 2.0 at home. Still, probably the best
allround Java IDE around.

Considering 'free': in my understanding, JDev is free
for download (well...) and using it for an unlimited
evaluation period. For production use, you must
license it. That's ok, I think. Comes the price tag:
IIRC, JDev 9i was sold for $ 995, including support.
How will it be with 10g in this direction? Not that
I'm directly affected, as we're Oracle Alliance
partners and get the whole range of Oracle
software anyway, but the price tag for the final
version of 10g would still be interesting. Generally,
it really would be helpful if Oracle could just say:
using our products costs this per named user
and that per CPU, and you get an x% rebate for
ASFU licenses. But if Oracle says 'free', it should
really be 'free' in the common understanding of the
term, and not: free to download (never got charged
for just downloading anything, IIRC) and evaluation.
So better say: JDev costs $ , but we grant
you a free, unlimited evalutation license period.
This way round :-)  

Finally, I'll misuse the list for some JDev-related
problem I couldn't find any solution for neither at
OTN nor by consulting orionserver.com (noting
that OTN searches are our last resort, as even
UltraSearch seems to be always presenting
the *least* relevant topics first, with a special
knack for early 8.1.5 documentation). The
problem is that we are currently porting a
subproject from Sun ONE to JDev. Everything
went well, but we still have a Bean factory that's
accessed via JNDI. The general idea is that
my developers should be able to to not just
write their code in JDev, but also make use
of its 'Run' or 'Debug' features. This means,
everything has to run in the integrated OC4J
container, of course.  So my question is:
how do you tell OC4J about additional
JNDI resources available that are not 
DataSources (in Sun ONE | Tomcat, you do
this via server.xml). We already found out that 
-oc4j-app.xml seems to be part
of the solution, but adding the fitting
 entries there only led to
'type unknown' JNDI errors in the JSP stack
trace. Yes, we even added everything feasible
to /lib and system classpath. Do you possibly
know a solution? Currently, the application
still runs in Tomcat, and we debug it via
log4j, ie. the 'old way'. Did cost us 3 
man-days already, btw.

-- Chris

> Depends on your interpretation of the word open in this context, if 
> it's "Free to download and evaluate" then try Oracle JDeveloper 10g
> Preview release http://otn.oracle.com/products/jdev
> If the definition is "Product that I will never, ever, ever have to
> pay for" then ignore this.
>
> Regards
>
> Duncan Mills
> - Original Message -
> From: "virupaksha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:48 AM
> Subject: IDE
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> I am working on struts using exadel struts studio,
> Can any one know other open IDE for struts ..?
> especially for designing View(Drag & drop approach..?)
>
> let me know please..
>
> Regards,
> viru
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE

[Duncan Mills]

Depends on your interpretation of the word open in this context, if  it's
"Free to download and evaluate" then try Oracle JDeveloper 10g Preview
release http://otn.oracle.com/products/jdev
If the definition is "Product that I will never, ever, ever have to pay for"
then ignore this.

Regards

Duncan Mills
- Original Message - 
From: "virupaksha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:48 AM
Subject: IDE


Dear All,

I am working on struts using exadel struts studio,
Can any one know other open IDE for struts ..?
especially for designing View(Drag & drop approach..?)

let me know please..

Regards,
viru


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: IDE for Struts Examples

[Mohd Amin Mohd Din]

Wuhooo! Oracle10g
-Original Message-
From: Duncan Mills [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 5:09 PM
To: Martin Gainty; Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: IDE for Struts Examples

Martin for General JDeveloper 10g issues you'd be better continuing this
on
the OTN forum (http://www.oracle.com/forums/forum.jsp?forum=83) as
little is
relevant to this list. We can pick up there where we leave off..

> Also find that under 10g Projects and Web Tier disappear from the
> File/New/General Menu..
Set the Filter By: to "All Technologies"

> The majority of examples in OTN for Struts are geared towards 9 and I
am
> having great difficulty creating these projects in 10g..
> Is there updated doc for 10g for Struts?
10g is a preview release, existing samples etc relate to the current
production release, but will be updated when the time comes.

Regards

Duncan Mills


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE for Struts Examples

[Duncan Mills]

Martin for General JDeveloper 10g issues you'd be better continuing this on
the OTN forum (http://www.oracle.com/forums/forum.jsp?forum=83) as little is
relevant to this list. We can pick up there where we leave off..

> Also find that under 10g Projects and Web Tier disappear from the
> File/New/General Menu..
Set the Filter By: to "All Technologies"

> The majority of examples in OTN for Struts are geared towards 9 and I am
> having great difficulty creating these projects in 10g..
> Is there updated doc for 10g for Struts?
10g is a preview release, existing samples etc relate to the current
production release, but will be updated when the time comes.

Regards

Duncan Mills


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE for Struts Examples

[Duncan Mills]

Just checked and the struts-example.war shipped with the preview is fine - for me all 
the jsps get imported and Edit Struts Page Flow is available off of the Context menu 
on the Struts Config...


Regards

Duncan Mills
Senior Principal Product Manager
Oracle Application Development Tools

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: Martin Gainty 
To: Struts Users Mailing List 
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: IDE for Struts Examples


My struts-example.war has 1 index.jsp that has nothing in it..
Drilling down to struts-config.xml shows No indication of "Edit Page flow"
I think my war file is hammered..
Any ideas where to pickup a viable struts war?
Thanks,
-Martin
- Original Message - 
From: "Duncan Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: IDE for Struts Examples


The standard Struts-example.war file is shipped with JDeveloper 10g,  You
can create a project from the supplied War file using:
1) File->New from the Menu or context menu,
2) Select General->Projects in the Categories pane
3) "Project from WAR" file in the Items pane
4) To view the visual pageflow editor drill down through Web Content
/WEB_INF to find the struts-config.xml and choose "Edit page flow" from the
context menu.

Regards

Duncan Mills

- Original Message - 
From: Martin Gainty
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 2:12 PM
Subject: IDE for Struts Examples


Hello

I am seeking a suitable IDE to use to build and deploy Struts examples.
Oracle JDeveloper 10 does not have Struts examples.
Does WSAD have build and deploy support for Struts Examples?

Many Thanks,

Martin Gainty

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE for Struts Examples

[Martin Gainty]

Also find that under 10g Projects and Web Tier disappear from the
File/New/General Menu..
The majority of examples in OTN for Struts are geared towards 9 and I am
having great difficulty creating these projects in 10g..
Is there updated doc for 10g for Struts?
Thanks,
Martin
- Original Message - 
From: "Duncan Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: IDE for Struts Examples


The standard Struts-example.war file is shipped with JDeveloper 10g,  You
can create a project from the supplied War file using:
1) File->New from the Menu or context menu,
2) Select General->Projects in the Categories pane
3) "Project from WAR" file in the Items pane
4) To view the visual pageflow editor drill down through Web Content
/WEB_INF to find the struts-config.xml and choose "Edit page flow" from the
context menu.

Regards

Duncan Mills

- Original Message - 
From: Martin Gainty
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 2:12 PM
Subject: IDE for Struts Examples


Hello

I am seeking a suitable IDE to use to build and deploy Struts examples.
Oracle JDeveloper 10 does not have Struts examples.
Does WSAD have build and deploy support for Struts Examples?

Many Thanks,

Martin Gainty

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE for Struts Examples

[Sergey Smirnov]

You can take it from this URL: http://forum.exadel.com/viewtopic.php?t=120


"Martin Gainty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> My struts-example.war has 1 index.jsp that has nothing in it..
> Drilling down to struts-config.xml shows No indication of "Edit Page flow"
> I think my war file is hammered..
> Any ideas where to pickup a viable struts war?
> Thanks,
> -Martin
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Duncan Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:47 AM
> Subject: Re: IDE for Struts Examples
>
>
> The standard Struts-example.war file is shipped with JDeveloper 10g,  You
> can create a project from the supplied War file using:
> 1) File->New from the Menu or context menu,
> 2) Select General->Projects in the Categories pane
> 3) "Project from WAR" file in the Items pane
> 4) To view the visual pageflow editor drill down through Web Content
> /WEB_INF to find the struts-config.xml and choose "Edit page flow" from
the
> context menu.
>
> Regards
>
> Duncan Mills
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: Martin Gainty
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 2:12 PM
> Subject: IDE for Struts Examples
>
>
> Hello
>
> I am seeking a suitable IDE to use to build and deploy Struts examples.
> Oracle JDeveloper 10 does not have Struts examples.
> Does WSAD have build and deploy support for Struts Examples?
>
> Many Thanks,
>
> Martin Gainty
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE for Struts Examples

[Martin Gainty]

My struts-example.war has 1 index.jsp that has nothing in it..
Drilling down to struts-config.xml shows No indication of "Edit Page flow"
I think my war file is hammered..
Any ideas where to pickup a viable struts war?
Thanks,
-Martin
- Original Message - 
From: "Duncan Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: IDE for Struts Examples


The standard Struts-example.war file is shipped with JDeveloper 10g,  You
can create a project from the supplied War file using:
1) File->New from the Menu or context menu,
2) Select General->Projects in the Categories pane
3) "Project from WAR" file in the Items pane
4) To view the visual pageflow editor drill down through Web Content
/WEB_INF to find the struts-config.xml and choose "Edit page flow" from the
context menu.

Regards

Duncan Mills

- Original Message - 
From: Martin Gainty
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 2:12 PM
Subject: IDE for Struts Examples


Hello

I am seeking a suitable IDE to use to build and deploy Struts examples.
Oracle JDeveloper 10 does not have Struts examples.
Does WSAD have build and deploy support for Struts Examples?

Many Thanks,

Martin Gainty

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE for Struts Examples

[Duncan Mills]

The standard Struts-example.war file is shipped with JDeveloper 10g,  You can create a 
project from the supplied War file using:
1) File->New from the Menu or context menu, 
2) Select General->Projects in the Categories pane
3) "Project from WAR" file in the Items pane
4) To view the visual pageflow editor drill down through Web Content /WEB_INF to find 
the struts-config.xml and choose "Edit page flow" from the context menu. 

Regards

Duncan Mills

- Original Message - 
From: Martin Gainty 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 2:12 PM
Subject: IDE for Struts Examples


Hello

I am seeking a suitable IDE to use to build and deploy Struts examples.
Oracle JDeveloper 10 does not have Struts examples.
Does WSAD have build and deploy support for Struts Examples?

Many Thanks,

Martin Gainty

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IDE for Struts Examples

[Stephan Wiesner]

WSAD has an extended support for Struts and you can find tutorials 
(free) in the IBM Redbooks, including code. If that is what you mean.

Stephan

Martin Gainty wrote:

Hello

I am seeking a suitable IDE to use to build and deploy Struts examples.
Oracle JDeveloper 10 does not have Struts examples.
Does WSAD have build and deploy support for Struts Examples?
Many Thanks,

Martin Gainty

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [IDE War] Java IDE choices

[Vic Cekvenich]

Please read the post by David in this thread.
He asks that you please put OT: ahead of IDE topics.
(some people filter out OT)

.V
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...

You do not discuss ones likes and choice of colours




  Emmanuel Boudrant
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  To:   Struts Users
Mailing List

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  02/05/2003 02:57 cc:
  PM   Subject:  [IDE War] Java IDE
choices
  Please respond to
  "Struts Users
  Mailing List"







"Les gouts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas"

If somebody can translate this expression in English ;)




 --- Mitchell Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > Having seen a few
posts claiming that
JBuilder is the "Worst.Tool.Ever!!!1!"
> and knowing that my own opinion is that JBuilder suits me quite well, I'm
> curious to know what specific complaints people have about it.For the
sake
> of level-setting, let me state that I paid for and use the SE version, so
> it's possible that things I think are wonderful and shiny are missing
from
> the free-to-download versions that other people might be using.
>
> What (specifically, if you will) makes JBuilder so distasteful? Any
answer
> that involves not having "vi" key bindings will be personally
unacceptable
> to me, but may be useful for other readers.
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

___
Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français !
Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






*

This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential and
privileged and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.  If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error,
please contact the sender immediately and delete it from your system.
Thank you


*
=




-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [OT] Re: [IDE War] Java IDE choices

[Claude Betancourt]

The tastes and colors are not discussed

- Original Message -
From: "Pani, Gourav" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: [OT] Re: [IDE War] Java IDE choices


Ditto David.

Translation:  There is no accounting for taste or color.

-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 3:00 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [OT] Re: [IDE War] Java IDE choices


If we must have this debate every week, at least prefix the posts with [OT].

Thanks,
David



>From: Emmanuel Boudrant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [IDE War] Java IDE choices
>Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:57:39 +0100 (CET)
>
>
>"Les gouts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas"
>
>If somebody can translate this expression in English ;)
>
>
>
>
>  --- Mitchell Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > Having seen a
>few posts claiming that
>JBuilder is the "Worst.Tool.Ever!!!1!"
> > and knowing that my own opinion is that JBuilder suits me quite well,
>I'm
> > curious to know what specific complaints people have about it.For the
>sake
> > of level-setting, let me state that I paid for and use the SE version,
>so
> > it's possible that things I think are wonderful and shiny are missing
>from
> > the free-to-download versions that other people might be using.
> >
> > What (specifically, if you will) makes JBuilder so distasteful? Any
>answer
> > that involves not having "vi" key bindings will be personally
>unacceptable
> > to me, but may be useful for other readers.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
>___
>Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français !
>Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


_
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [IDE War] Java IDE choices

[Vic Cekvenich]

Please read the post by David in this thread.
He asks that you please put OT: ahead of IDE topics.
(some people filter out OT)

.V

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

You do not discuss ones likes and choice of colours



   
  Emmanuel Boudrant
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  To:   Struts Users Mailing List 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
  02/05/2003 02:57 cc: 
  PM   Subject:  [IDE War] Java IDE choices
  Please respond to
  "Struts Users
  Mailing List"
   
   





"Les gouts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas"

If somebody can translate this expression in English ;)




 --- Mitchell Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > Having seen a few
posts claiming that
JBuilder is the "Worst.Tool.Ever!!!1!"

and knowing that my own opinion is that JBuilder suits me quite well, I'm
curious to know what specific complaints people have about it.For the


sake


of level-setting, let me state that I paid for and use the SE version, so
it's possible that things I think are wonderful and shiny are missing


from


the free-to-download versions that other people might be using.

What (specifically, if you will) makes JBuilder so distasteful? Any


answer


that involves not having "vi" key bindings will be personally


unacceptable


to me, but may be useful for other readers.



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




___
Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français !
Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




*

This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential and
privileged and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.  If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error,
please contact the sender immediately and delete it from your system.
Thank you
*




-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [IDE War] Java IDE choices

[jmattucci]

You do not discuss ones likes and choice of colours



   

  Emmanuel Boudrant

  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  To:   Struts Users Mailing List 

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   

  02/05/2003 02:57 cc: 

  PM   Subject:  [IDE War] Java IDE choices

  Please respond to

  "Struts Users

  Mailing List"

   

   






"Les gouts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas"

If somebody can translate this expression in English ;)




 --- Mitchell Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > Having seen a few
posts claiming that
JBuilder is the "Worst.Tool.Ever!!!1!"
> and knowing that my own opinion is that JBuilder suits me quite well, I'm
> curious to know what specific complaints people have about it.For the
sake
> of level-setting, let me state that I paid for and use the SE version, so
> it's possible that things I think are wonderful and shiny are missing
from
> the free-to-download versions that other people might be using.
>
> What (specifically, if you will) makes JBuilder so distasteful? Any
answer
> that involves not having "vi" key bindings will be personally
unacceptable
> to me, but may be useful for other readers.
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

___
Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français !
Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




*

This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential and
privileged and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.  If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error,
please contact the sender immediately and delete it from your system.
Thank you
*



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [OT] Re: [IDE War] Java IDE choices

[Pani, Gourav]

Ditto David.

Translation:  There is no accounting for taste or color.

-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 3:00 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [OT] Re: [IDE War] Java IDE choices


If we must have this debate every week, at least prefix the posts with [OT].

Thanks,
David



>From: Emmanuel Boudrant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [IDE War] Java IDE choices
>Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:57:39 +0100 (CET)
>
>
>"Les gouts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas"
>
>If somebody can translate this expression in English ;)
>
>
>
>
>  --- Mitchell Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > Having seen a 
>few posts claiming that
>JBuilder is the "Worst.Tool.Ever!!!1!"
> > and knowing that my own opinion is that JBuilder suits me quite well, 
>I'm
> > curious to know what specific complaints people have about it.For the 
>sake
> > of level-setting, let me state that I paid for and use the SE version, 
>so
> > it's possible that things I think are wonderful and shiny are missing 
>from
> > the free-to-download versions that other people might be using.
> >
> > What (specifically, if you will) makes JBuilder so distasteful? Any 
>answer
> > that involves not having "vi" key bindings will be personally 
>unacceptable
> > to me, but may be useful for other readers.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
>___
>Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français !
>Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


_
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [IDE War] Java IDE choices

[Jarnot Voytek Contr AU HQ/SC]

There's no accounting for taste?

> -Original Message-
> From: Emmanuel Boudrant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:58 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: [IDE War] Java IDE choices
> 
> 
> 
> "Les gouts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas"
> 
> If somebody can translate this expression in English ;)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  --- Mitchell Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > 
> Having seen a few posts claiming that
> JBuilder is the "Worst.Tool.Ever!!!1!"
> > and knowing that my own opinion is that JBuilder suits me 
> quite well, I'm
> > curious to know what specific complaints people have about 
> it.For the sake
> > of level-setting, let me state that I paid for and use the 
> SE version, so
> > it's possible that things I think are wonderful and shiny 
> are missing from
> > the free-to-download versions that other people might be using.
> > 
> > What (specifically, if you will) makes JBuilder so 
> distasteful? Any answer
> > that involves not having "vi" key bindings will be 
> personally unacceptable
> > to me, but may be useful for other readers.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >  
> 
> ___
> Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français !
> Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[OT] Re: [IDE War] Java IDE choices

[David Graham]

If we must have this debate every week, at least prefix the posts with [OT].

Thanks,
David




From: Emmanuel Boudrant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [IDE War] Java IDE choices
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:57:39 +0100 (CET)


"Les gouts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas"

If somebody can translate this expression in English ;)




 --- Mitchell Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > Having seen a 
few posts claiming that
JBuilder is the "Worst.Tool.Ever!!!1!"
> and knowing that my own opinion is that JBuilder suits me quite well, 
I'm
> curious to know what specific complaints people have about it.For the 
sake
> of level-setting, let me state that I paid for and use the SE version, 
so
> it's possible that things I think are wonderful and shiny are missing 
from
> the free-to-download versions that other people might be using.
>
> What (specifically, if you will) makes JBuilder so distasteful? Any 
answer
> that involves not having "vi" key bindings will be personally 
unacceptable
> to me, but may be useful for other readers.
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

___
Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français !
Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


_
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: IDE for struts - jbuilder?

[Bill Willis]

Hi Fabian,

You should definitely try ObjectAssembler:
http://www.objectventure.com/products/objectassembler.html.

It integrates tightly with JBuilder (and other IDEs) and provides
two-way tools for building Struts components and configurations. The
Standard version, which offers web and Struts 1.1 development, is FREE.
I encourage you to take a look at the User Manual before getting started
and to visit the support forum (http://support.objectventure.net) if you
have any questions or comments.

Feel free to contact me offline if you want more information.

Regards,
Bill


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 5:22 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: IDE for struts - jbuilder?

Hello!

Can someone tell me what´s the best IDE to develop web-apps using
struts?
I tried to use struts in jbuilder, but the tools I found were not too
impressive (easy-struts and tagvision). Any hints how to use struts in
common IDEs would be fine...
Thanks!
Fabian Sommer 


--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:

For additional commands, e-mail:





--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
For additional commands, e-mail: 

Re: IDE for struts - jbuilder?

[James Holmes]

Struts Console is also available for JBuilder as well
as a few other IDEs.

Struts Console:
http://www.jamesholmes.com/struts/

-james
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- Fabian Sommer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> Can someone tell me what´s the best IDE to develop
> web-apps using
> struts?
> I tried to use struts in jbuilder, but the tools I
> found were not too
> impressive (easy-struts and tagvision). Any hints
> how to use struts in
> common IDEs would be fine...
> Thanks!
> Fabian Sommer 
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:  
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> 
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
For additional commands, e-mail: 

Re: IDE for struts - jbuilder?

[Amit Badheka]

try struts-builder by following the link -

River North or Struts Builder

It is very simple IDE that runs by generaing scripts and provides you all
the required documents for a webapp.
You are just need to put your buisness logics.

There is also one more IDE just annouced for webapp using struts. have a
look -

http://www.theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=14909


Amit.


- Original Message -
From: "Fabian Sommer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 2:51 PM
Subject: IDE for struts - jbuilder?


Hello!

Can someone tell me what´s the best IDE to develop web-apps using
struts?
I tried to use struts in jbuilder, but the tools I found were not too
impressive (easy-struts and tagvision). Any hints how to use struts in
common IDEs would be fine...
Thanks!
Fabian Sommer


--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:

For additional commands, e-mail:






--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
For additional commands, e-mail: 

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Craig R. McClanahan]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Joseph Barefoot wrote:

> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:53:00 -0700
> From: Joseph Barefoot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
> Okay, I have to ask a question of all of you emacs/vi developers out there
> with S's on your chests:
>
> Are graphical versions of these tools allowed in the kindom of Studcodia, or
> monochromatic versions only? ;)
>

Does XEMACS count as a "graphical version"?

> peace,
>
> Joe Barefoot
>

Craig McClanahan (who always uses XEMACS when building Struts itself ;-)


--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Galbreath, Mark]

Hell, the main reason I took the assignment was I though I might meet Jamie
Lee!  ;-)

-Original Message-
From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 2:45 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development


First:  Simon, I like your style...I'm trying to get to an unbiased state
regarding software myself, but it ain't easy. :)

Mark, that's funny as hell--VoiceStream just took over MobileStar, whom we
were partnered with, and then decided "Hey, we have all the Starbucks, so
screw roaming partnerships!", and decided not to partner with us.  Sure am
glad you're only a consultant for VoiceStream, or we might have something to
worry about. ;)


peace,
Joe Barefoot


> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:04 AM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Yeah, but I'm just a consultant working on a contract for
> VoiceStream Global
> Wireless (soon to be T-Mobile Wireless Internet in California)
> writing it's
> entire ecommerce suite using Struts, EJBs and Oracle.  It's present online
> store was coded with Cold Fusion about 3 years ago and it is failing
> miserably under the load.
>
> The TESSCO website will be ported to Struts/J2EE sometime this fall, but I
> don't know if I will be around here to participate.  I generally move onto
> other companies, other projects about every 6 months.
>
> Sure would like to move to Wisconsin  ;-)
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Thinh Doan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:36 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Mark's company web site is using asp, lol.
>
> Thinh
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 12:26 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Boy, it's going to be real hard to think up a thread like this one for
> tomorrow!
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:24 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> I agree with 95% of what you say, James, but just for the record,
> many of us
> have a profound distaste for Microsoft not because of their software, but
> because of their business practices.  They have a solid history of
> "borrowing" from existing software and technology to build their own
> products (esp. open source), and then using their leverage to
> make sure that
> their product is dominant in the marketplace.  How many company's
> web sites
> were built with ASP only because the company had some sort of pre-existing
> "preferred partner" arrangement with Microsoft?  More than you or I will
> ever know, that's for sure.
>
> I personally happen to really like some of Microsoft's office
> software, but
> I would never work to develop a Microsoft product, for the same
> reasons that
> I would never work for PG&E--they simply do not play nice with
> others.  Note
> that this doesn't mean I won't *use* their products or technology
> if I find
> them to be superior, I just won't help *build* something that may
> be turned
> into a marketing leviathon.
>
>
> peace,
>
> Joe Barefoot
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:13 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> > OK, OK.  So I said the
> >
> > This is so childish, almost comical!
> > (Wish it was Friday)
> >
> > *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE person, I
> > simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
> > ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
> >
> > At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
> > advancing?
> > Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
> >
> > I've noticed a trend with such people.
> >
> > When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they
> were eager to
> > learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
> > considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
> > powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.
> >
> &

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Schneider, Eric]

I guess that's business, eh?

Who knows, maybe Sun will be the next M$?

http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0313.1

> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:24 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> 
> 
> I agree with 95% of what you say, James, but just for the 
> record, many of us
> have a profound distaste for Microsoft not because of their 
> software, but
> because of their business practices.  They have a solid history of
> "borrowing" from existing software and technology to build their own
> products (esp. open source), and then using their leverage to 
> make sure that
> their product is dominant in the marketplace.  How many 
> company's web sites
> were built with ASP only because the company had some sort of 
> pre-existing
> "preferred partner" arrangement with Microsoft?  More than 
> you or I will
> ever know, that's for sure.
> 
> I personally happen to really like some of Microsoft's office 
> software, but
> I would never work to develop a Microsoft product, for the 
> same reasons that
> I would never work for PG&E--they simply do not play nice 
> with others.  Note
> that this doesn't mean I won't *use* their products or 
> technology if I find
> them to be superior, I just won't help *build* something that 
> may be turned
> into a marketing leviathon.
> 
> 
> peace,
> 
> Joe Barefoot
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:13 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> > OK, OK.  So I said the
> >
> > This is so childish, almost comical!
> > (Wish it was Friday)
> >
> > *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any 
> ONE person, I
> > simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
> > ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
> >
> > At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
> > advancing?
> > Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as 
> guru-hood?
> >
> > I've noticed a trend with such people.
> >
> > When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they 
> were eager to
> > learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
> > considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
> > powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of 
> the moment.
> >
> > Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they 
> had to defend
> > their guru status.
> > Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping 
> others to improve
> > their product (code), they were bitter and complained 
> amongst themselves,
> > trying to convince each other that they were still the 
> gurus of today.
> > Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.
> > Some of them
> > still clung to their beliefs that they were right and 
> everyone else was
> > stupid.
> >
> >
> > So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?
> >
> > http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html
> >
> >
> > Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft 
> side of the
> > fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in 
> the Army and
> > didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to 
> me.  I started
> > learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 
> 5.  However, the
> > technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's 
> right Active Server
> > Pages.
> > Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was introduced to
> > the Struts
> > framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to ASP.
> > I have been
> > a believer ever since.
> >
> > One thing I noticed on the Non-MS side of the fence that I didn't
> > see on the
> > MS side was the bitterness and anger that some people have 
> for the other
> > side.
> >
> > I guess I just don't get it.  Some people at my last job actually
> > treated me
> > like sh## because I "used to be" an ASP developer.  H, 
> I don't recall
> > such hostility about Java developers from anyone at any of 
> my previous MS
> > shop jobs.
> > In fa

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Joseph Barefoot]

First:  Simon, I like your style...I'm trying to get to an unbiased state
regarding software myself, but it ain't easy. :)

Mark, that's funny as hell--VoiceStream just took over MobileStar, whom we
were partnered with, and then decided "Hey, we have all the Starbucks, so
screw roaming partnerships!", and decided not to partner with us.  Sure am
glad you're only a consultant for VoiceStream, or we might have something to
worry about. ;)


peace,
Joe Barefoot


> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:04 AM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Yeah, but I'm just a consultant working on a contract for
> VoiceStream Global
> Wireless (soon to be T-Mobile Wireless Internet in California)
> writing it's
> entire ecommerce suite using Struts, EJBs and Oracle.  It's present online
> store was coded with Cold Fusion about 3 years ago and it is failing
> miserably under the load.
>
> The TESSCO website will be ported to Struts/J2EE sometime this fall, but I
> don't know if I will be around here to participate.  I generally move onto
> other companies, other projects about every 6 months.
>
> Sure would like to move to Wisconsin  ;-)
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Thinh Doan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:36 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Mark's company web site is using asp, lol.
>
> Thinh
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 12:26 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Boy, it's going to be real hard to think up a thread like this one for
> tomorrow!
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:24 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> I agree with 95% of what you say, James, but just for the record,
> many of us
> have a profound distaste for Microsoft not because of their software, but
> because of their business practices.  They have a solid history of
> "borrowing" from existing software and technology to build their own
> products (esp. open source), and then using their leverage to
> make sure that
> their product is dominant in the marketplace.  How many company's
> web sites
> were built with ASP only because the company had some sort of pre-existing
> "preferred partner" arrangement with Microsoft?  More than you or I will
> ever know, that's for sure.
>
> I personally happen to really like some of Microsoft's office
> software, but
> I would never work to develop a Microsoft product, for the same
> reasons that
> I would never work for PG&E--they simply do not play nice with
> others.  Note
> that this doesn't mean I won't *use* their products or technology
> if I find
> them to be superior, I just won't help *build* something that may
> be turned
> into a marketing leviathon.
>
>
> peace,
>
> Joe Barefoot
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:13 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> > OK, OK.  So I said the
> >
> > This is so childish, almost comical!
> > (Wish it was Friday)
> >
> > *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE person, I
> > simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
> > ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
> >
> > At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
> > advancing?
> > Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
> >
> > I've noticed a trend with such people.
> >
> > When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they
> were eager to
> > learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
> > considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
> > powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.
> >
> > Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they had
> to defend
> > their guru status.
> > Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others to improve
> > their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst
> 

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Chappell, Simon P]

>Sure would like to move to Wisconsin  ;-)

I working on it! Start eating more cheese and saying "Go Packers!" :-)

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
For additional commands, e-mail: 

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Galbreath, Mark]

Clever boy!  :-0~

-Original Message-
From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:53 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development


Here's a good topic for tomorrow.

Proposal for new open source framework:
Integrating Jakarta Struts and Microsoft's .NET

We will call it .NUTS

JM

> -Original Message-
> From: Thinh Doan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:36 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Mark's company web site is using asp, lol.
>
> Thinh
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 12:26 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Boy, it's going to be real hard to think up a thread like this one for
> tomorrow!
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:24 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> I agree with 95% of what you say, James, but just for the record,
> many of us
> have a profound distaste for Microsoft not because of their software, but
> because of their business practices.  They have a solid history of
> "borrowing" from existing software and technology to build their own
> products (esp. open source), and then using their leverage to
> make sure that
> their product is dominant in the marketplace.  How many company's
> web sites
> were built with ASP only because the company had some sort of pre-existing
> "preferred partner" arrangement with Microsoft?  More than you or I will
> ever know, that's for sure.
>
> I personally happen to really like some of Microsoft's office
> software, but
> I would never work to develop a Microsoft product, for the same
> reasons that
> I would never work for PG&E--they simply do not play nice with
> others.  Note
> that this doesn't mean I won't *use* their products or technology
> if I find
> them to be superior, I just won't help *build* something that may
> be turned
> into a marketing leviathon.
>
>
> peace,
>
> Joe Barefoot
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:13 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> > OK, OK.  So I said the
> >
> > This is so childish, almost comical!
> > (Wish it was Friday)
> >
> > *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE person, I
> > simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
> > ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
> >
> > At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
> > advancing?
> > Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
> >
> > I've noticed a trend with such people.
> >
> > When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they
> were eager to
> > learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
> > considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
> > powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.
> >
> > Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they had
> to defend
> > their guru status.
> > Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others to improve
> > their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst
> themselves,
> > trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus of today.
> > Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.
> > Some of them
> > still clung to their beliefs that they were right and everyone else was
> > stupid.
> >
> >
> > So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?
> >
> > http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html
> >
> >
> > Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft side of the
> > fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in the Army and
> > didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to me.  I started
> > learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5.
> However, the
> > technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right
> Active Server

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Galbreath, Mark]

Yeah, but I'm just a consultant working on a contract for VoiceStream Global
Wireless (soon to be T-Mobile Wireless Internet in California) writing it's
entire ecommerce suite using Struts, EJBs and Oracle.  It's present online
store was coded with Cold Fusion about 3 years ago and it is failing
miserably under the load.

The TESSCO website will be ported to Struts/J2EE sometime this fall, but I
don't know if I will be around here to participate.  I generally move onto
other companies, other projects about every 6 months.

Sure would like to move to Wisconsin  ;-)

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Thinh Doan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:36 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development


Mark's company web site is using asp, lol.

Thinh

-Original Message-
From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 12:26 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development


Boy, it's going to be real hard to think up a thread like this one for
tomorrow!

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:24 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development


I agree with 95% of what you say, James, but just for the record, many of us
have a profound distaste for Microsoft not because of their software, but
because of their business practices.  They have a solid history of
"borrowing" from existing software and technology to build their own
products (esp. open source), and then using their leverage to make sure that
their product is dominant in the marketplace.  How many company's web sites
were built with ASP only because the company had some sort of pre-existing
"preferred partner" arrangement with Microsoft?  More than you or I will
ever know, that's for sure.

I personally happen to really like some of Microsoft's office software, but
I would never work to develop a Microsoft product, for the same reasons that
I would never work for PG&E--they simply do not play nice with others.  Note
that this doesn't mean I won't *use* their products or technology if I find
them to be superior, I just won't help *build* something that may be turned
into a marketing leviathon.


peace,

Joe Barefoot


> -Original Message-
> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:13 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> OK, OK.  So I said the
>
> This is so childish, almost comical!
> (Wish it was Friday)
>
> *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE person, I
> simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
> ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
>
> At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
> advancing?
> Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
>
> I've noticed a trend with such people.
>
> When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they were eager to
> learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
> considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
> powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.
>
> Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they had to defend
> their guru status.
> Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others to improve
> their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst themselves,
> trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus of today.
> Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.
> Some of them
> still clung to their beliefs that they were right and everyone else was
> stupid.
>
>
> So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?
>
> http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html
>
>
> Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.
>
>
>
>
>
> I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft side of the
> fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in the Army and
> didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to me.  I started
> learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5.  However, the
> technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right Active Server
> Pages.
> Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was introduced to
> the Struts
> framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to ASP.
> I have been
> a believer ever since.
>
> One thing I noticed on the Non-MS side of the fence that I didn't
> see on the
> MS side was the bitterness and anger that some p

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[James Mitchell]

Here's a good topic for tomorrow.

Proposal for new open source framework:
Integrating Jakarta Struts and Microsoft's .NET

We will call it .NUTS

JM

> -Original Message-
> From: Thinh Doan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:36 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Mark's company web site is using asp, lol.
>
> Thinh
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 12:26 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Boy, it's going to be real hard to think up a thread like this one for
> tomorrow!
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:24 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> I agree with 95% of what you say, James, but just for the record,
> many of us
> have a profound distaste for Microsoft not because of their software, but
> because of their business practices.  They have a solid history of
> "borrowing" from existing software and technology to build their own
> products (esp. open source), and then using their leverage to
> make sure that
> their product is dominant in the marketplace.  How many company's
> web sites
> were built with ASP only because the company had some sort of pre-existing
> "preferred partner" arrangement with Microsoft?  More than you or I will
> ever know, that's for sure.
>
> I personally happen to really like some of Microsoft's office
> software, but
> I would never work to develop a Microsoft product, for the same
> reasons that
> I would never work for PG&E--they simply do not play nice with
> others.  Note
> that this doesn't mean I won't *use* their products or technology
> if I find
> them to be superior, I just won't help *build* something that may
> be turned
> into a marketing leviathon.
>
>
> peace,
>
> Joe Barefoot
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:13 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> > OK, OK.  So I said the
> >
> > This is so childish, almost comical!
> > (Wish it was Friday)
> >
> > *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE person, I
> > simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
> > ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
> >
> > At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
> > advancing?
> > Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
> >
> > I've noticed a trend with such people.
> >
> > When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they
> were eager to
> > learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
> > considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
> > powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.
> >
> > Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they had
> to defend
> > their guru status.
> > Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others to improve
> > their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst
> themselves,
> > trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus of today.
> > Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.
> > Some of them
> > still clung to their beliefs that they were right and everyone else was
> > stupid.
> >
> >
> > So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?
> >
> > http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html
> >
> >
> > Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft side of the
> > fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in the Army and
> > didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to me.  I started
> > learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5.
> However, the
> > technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right
> Active Server
> > Pages.
> > Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was introduced to
> > the Struts
> > framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to ASP.
> > I have been
> > a be

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Thinh Doan]

Mark's company web site is using asp, lol.

Thinh

-Original Message-
From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 12:26 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development


Boy, it's going to be real hard to think up a thread like this one for
tomorrow!

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:24 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development


I agree with 95% of what you say, James, but just for the record, many of us
have a profound distaste for Microsoft not because of their software, but
because of their business practices.  They have a solid history of
"borrowing" from existing software and technology to build their own
products (esp. open source), and then using their leverage to make sure that
their product is dominant in the marketplace.  How many company's web sites
were built with ASP only because the company had some sort of pre-existing
"preferred partner" arrangement with Microsoft?  More than you or I will
ever know, that's for sure.

I personally happen to really like some of Microsoft's office software, but
I would never work to develop a Microsoft product, for the same reasons that
I would never work for PG&E--they simply do not play nice with others.  Note
that this doesn't mean I won't *use* their products or technology if I find
them to be superior, I just won't help *build* something that may be turned
into a marketing leviathon.


peace,

Joe Barefoot


> -Original Message-
> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:13 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> OK, OK.  So I said the
>
> This is so childish, almost comical!
> (Wish it was Friday)
>
> *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE person, I
> simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
> ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
>
> At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
> advancing?
> Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
>
> I've noticed a trend with such people.
>
> When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they were eager to
> learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
> considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
> powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.
>
> Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they had to defend
> their guru status.
> Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others to improve
> their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst themselves,
> trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus of today.
> Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.
> Some of them
> still clung to their beliefs that they were right and everyone else was
> stupid.
>
>
> So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?
>
> http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html
>
>
> Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.
>
>
>
>
>
> I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft side of the
> fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in the Army and
> didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to me.  I started
> learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5.  However, the
> technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right Active Server
> Pages.
> Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was introduced to
> the Struts
> framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to ASP.
> I have been
> a believer ever since.
>
> One thing I noticed on the Non-MS side of the fence that I didn't
> see on the
> MS side was the bitterness and anger that some people have for the other
> side.
>
> I guess I just don't get it.  Some people at my last job actually
> treated me
> like sh## because I "used to be" an ASP developer.  H, I don't recall
> such hostility about Java developers from anyone at any of my previous MS
> shop jobs.
> In fact, one guy actually started talking to me and helping me
> only after he
> heard me tell a friend that I had just installed Linux on my laptop.
>
> WHAT THE FU$#$%#$%#$
>
> Where is this hatred coming from people?
> Why don't you just get over it and get a life!  Microsoft ISN'T going
> away!!!
>
> If you don't like their software, then stop using it..but
> just shut the
> hell up!!!
>

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Chappell, Simon P]

Somehow I think that you'll/we'll manage it!

Favourite Monty Python sketches?

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 12:26 PM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
>Boy, it's going to be real hard to think up a thread like this one for
>tomorrow!
>
>Mark
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:24 PM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
>I agree with 95% of what you say, James, but just for the 
>record, many of us
>have a profound distaste for Microsoft not because of their 
>software, but
>because of their business practices.  They have a solid history of
>"borrowing" from existing software and technology to build their own
>products (esp. open source), and then using their leverage to 
>make sure that
>their product is dominant in the marketplace.  How many 
>company's web sites
>were built with ASP only because the company had some sort of 
>pre-existing
>"preferred partner" arrangement with Microsoft?  More than you 
>or I will
>ever know, that's for sure.
>
>I personally happen to really like some of Microsoft's office 
>software, but
>I would never work to develop a Microsoft product, for the 
>same reasons that
>I would never work for PG&E--they simply do not play nice with 
>others.  Note
>that this doesn't mean I won't *use* their products or 
>technology if I find
>them to be superior, I just won't help *build* something that 
>may be turned
>into a marketing leviathon.
>
>
>peace,
>
>Joe Barefoot
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:13 AM
>> To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>>
>>
>> OK, OK.  So I said the
>>
>> This is so childish, almost comical!
>> (Wish it was Friday)
>>
>> *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any 
>ONE person, I
>> simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
>> ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
>>
>> At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
>> advancing?
>> Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
>>
>> I've noticed a trend with such people.
>>
>> When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they 
>were eager to
>> learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
>> considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
>> powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of 
>the moment.
>>
>> Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they 
>had to defend
>> their guru status.
>> Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping 
>others to improve
>> their product (code), they were bitter and complained 
>amongst themselves,
>> trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus 
>of today.
>> Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.
>> Some of them
>> still clung to their beliefs that they were right and 
>everyone else was
>> stupid.
>>
>>
>> So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?
>>
>> http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html
>>
>>
>> Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft 
>side of the
>> fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in 
>the Army and
>> didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to 
>me.  I started
>> learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5. 
> However, the
>> technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right 
>Active Server
>> Pages.
>> Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was introduced to
>> the Struts
>> framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to ASP.
>> I have been
>> a believer ever since.
>>
>> One thing I noticed on the Non-MS side of the fence that I didn't
>> see on the
>> MS side was the bitterness and anger that some people have 
>for the other
>> side.
>>
>> I guess I just don't get it.  Some people at my last job actually
>> treated me
>> like sh## because I "used to be

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Chappell, Simon P]

Joe, I agree. I personally do not care for Microsoft the company and find only a few 
Microsoft tools useful and acceptable. Yet I have a fairly pragmatic approach to this: 
At work I have Linux on my primary workstation (a laptop), W2K on my secondary 
workstation and then at home I use a Mac with OS X and I use MS Office and Adobe 
InDesign/PhotoShop for the newsletter that I edit for our church's state office. I 
have worked on many different operating systems (including Microsoft Xenix! :-) on 
many different architectures and have used who knows how many programming languages.

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 12:24 PM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
>I agree with 95% of what you say, James, but just for the 
>record, many of us
>have a profound distaste for Microsoft not because of their 
>software, but
>because of their business practices.  They have a solid history of
>"borrowing" from existing software and technology to build their own
>products (esp. open source), and then using their leverage to 
>make sure that
>their product is dominant in the marketplace.  How many 
>company's web sites
>were built with ASP only because the company had some sort of 
>pre-existing
>"preferred partner" arrangement with Microsoft?  More than you 
>or I will
>ever know, that's for sure.
>
>I personally happen to really like some of Microsoft's office 
>software, but
>I would never work to develop a Microsoft product, for the 
>same reasons that
>I would never work for PG&E--they simply do not play nice with 
>others.  Note
>that this doesn't mean I won't *use* their products or 
>technology if I find
>them to be superior, I just won't help *build* something that 
>may be turned
>into a marketing leviathon.
>
>
>peace,
>
>Joe Barefoot
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:13 AM
>> To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>>
>>
>> OK, OK.  So I said the
>>
>> This is so childish, almost comical!
>> (Wish it was Friday)
>>
>> *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any 
>ONE person, I
>> simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
>> ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
>>
>> At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
>> advancing?
>> Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
>>
>> I've noticed a trend with such people.
>>
>> When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they 
>were eager to
>> learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
>> considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
>> powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of 
>the moment.
>>
>> Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they 
>had to defend
>> their guru status.
>> Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping 
>others to improve
>> their product (code), they were bitter and complained 
>amongst themselves,
>> trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus 
>of today.
>> Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.
>> Some of them
>> still clung to their beliefs that they were right and 
>everyone else was
>> stupid.
>>
>>
>> So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?
>>
>> http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html
>>
>>
>> Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft 
>side of the
>> fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in 
>the Army and
>> didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to 
>me.  I started
>> learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5. 
> However, the
>> technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right 
>Active Server
>> Pages.
>> Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was introduced to
>> the Struts
>> framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to ASP.
>> I have been
>> a believer ever since.
>>
>> One thing I noticed on the Non-MS side of the fence that I didn't
>> see on the
>> MS side was the bitterness and anger that some people have 
>for the other
>>

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[James Mitchell]

LOL

> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:26 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Boy, it's going to be real hard to think up a thread like this one for
> tomorrow!
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:24 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> I agree with 95% of what you say, James, but just for the record,
> many of us
> have a profound distaste for Microsoft not because of their software, but
> because of their business practices.  They have a solid history of
> "borrowing" from existing software and technology to build their own
> products (esp. open source), and then using their leverage to
> make sure that
> their product is dominant in the marketplace.  How many company's
> web sites
> were built with ASP only because the company had some sort of pre-existing
> "preferred partner" arrangement with Microsoft?  More than you or I will
> ever know, that's for sure.
>
> I personally happen to really like some of Microsoft's office
> software, but
> I would never work to develop a Microsoft product, for the same
> reasons that
> I would never work for PG&E--they simply do not play nice with
> others.  Note
> that this doesn't mean I won't *use* their products or technology
> if I find
> them to be superior, I just won't help *build* something that may
> be turned
> into a marketing leviathon.
>
>
> peace,
>
> Joe Barefoot
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:13 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> > OK, OK.  So I said the
> >
> > This is so childish, almost comical!
> > (Wish it was Friday)
> >
> > *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE person, I
> > simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
> > ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
> >
> > At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
> > advancing?
> > Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
> >
> > I've noticed a trend with such people.
> >
> > When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they
> were eager to
> > learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
> > considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
> > powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.
> >
> > Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they had
> to defend
> > their guru status.
> > Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others to improve
> > their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst
> themselves,
> > trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus of today.
> > Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.
> > Some of them
> > still clung to their beliefs that they were right and everyone else was
> > stupid.
> >
> >
> > So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?
> >
> > http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html
> >
> >
> > Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft side of the
> > fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in the Army and
> > didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to me.  I started
> > learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5.
> However, the
> > technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right
> Active Server
> > Pages.
> > Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was introduced to
> > the Struts
> > framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to ASP.
> > I have been
> > a believer ever since.
> >
> > One thing I noticed on the Non-MS side of the fence that I didn't
> > see on the
> > MS side was the bitterness and anger that some people have for the other
> > side.
> >
> > I guess I just don't get it.  Some people at my last job actually
> > treated me
> > like sh## because I "used to be" an ASP developer.  H, I
> don't rec

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Galbreath, Mark]

Boy, it's going to be real hard to think up a thread like this one for
tomorrow!

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:24 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development


I agree with 95% of what you say, James, but just for the record, many of us
have a profound distaste for Microsoft not because of their software, but
because of their business practices.  They have a solid history of
"borrowing" from existing software and technology to build their own
products (esp. open source), and then using their leverage to make sure that
their product is dominant in the marketplace.  How many company's web sites
were built with ASP only because the company had some sort of pre-existing
"preferred partner" arrangement with Microsoft?  More than you or I will
ever know, that's for sure.

I personally happen to really like some of Microsoft's office software, but
I would never work to develop a Microsoft product, for the same reasons that
I would never work for PG&E--they simply do not play nice with others.  Note
that this doesn't mean I won't *use* their products or technology if I find
them to be superior, I just won't help *build* something that may be turned
into a marketing leviathon.


peace,

Joe Barefoot


> -Original Message-
> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:13 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> OK, OK.  So I said the
>
> This is so childish, almost comical!
> (Wish it was Friday)
>
> *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE person, I
> simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
> ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
>
> At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
> advancing?
> Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
>
> I've noticed a trend with such people.
>
> When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they were eager to
> learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
> considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
> powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.
>
> Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they had to defend
> their guru status.
> Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others to improve
> their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst themselves,
> trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus of today.
> Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.
> Some of them
> still clung to their beliefs that they were right and everyone else was
> stupid.
>
>
> So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?
>
> http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html
>
>
> Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.
>
>
>
>
>
> I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft side of the
> fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in the Army and
> didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to me.  I started
> learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5.  However, the
> technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right Active Server
> Pages.
> Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was introduced to
> the Struts
> framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to ASP.
> I have been
> a believer ever since.
>
> One thing I noticed on the Non-MS side of the fence that I didn't
> see on the
> MS side was the bitterness and anger that some people have for the other
> side.
>
> I guess I just don't get it.  Some people at my last job actually
> treated me
> like sh## because I "used to be" an ASP developer.  H, I don't recall
> such hostility about Java developers from anyone at any of my previous MS
> shop jobs.
> In fact, one guy actually started talking to me and helping me
> only after he
> heard me tell a friend that I had just installed Linux on my laptop.
>
> WHAT THE FU$#$%#$%#$
>
> Where is this hatred coming from people?
> Why don't you just get over it and get a life!  Microsoft ISN'T going
> away!!!
>
> If you don't like their software, then stop using it..but
> just shut the
> hell up!!!
>
> JM
>
> P.S. Oh crap, I used spellchecker before sending this message.  Oh well,
> guess I'm not an e-mail guru.
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Joseph Barefoot]

I agree with 95% of what you say, James, but just for the record, many of us
have a profound distaste for Microsoft not because of their software, but
because of their business practices.  They have a solid history of
"borrowing" from existing software and technology to build their own
products (esp. open source), and then using their leverage to make sure that
their product is dominant in the marketplace.  How many company's web sites
were built with ASP only because the company had some sort of pre-existing
"preferred partner" arrangement with Microsoft?  More than you or I will
ever know, that's for sure.

I personally happen to really like some of Microsoft's office software, but
I would never work to develop a Microsoft product, for the same reasons that
I would never work for PG&E--they simply do not play nice with others.  Note
that this doesn't mean I won't *use* their products or technology if I find
them to be superior, I just won't help *build* something that may be turned
into a marketing leviathon.


peace,

Joe Barefoot


> -Original Message-
> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:13 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> OK, OK.  So I said the
>
> This is so childish, almost comical!
> (Wish it was Friday)
>
> *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE person, I
> simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
> ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
>
> At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
> advancing?
> Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
>
> I've noticed a trend with such people.
>
> When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they were eager to
> learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
> considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
> powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.
>
> Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they had to defend
> their guru status.
> Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others to improve
> their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst themselves,
> trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus of today.
> Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.
> Some of them
> still clung to their beliefs that they were right and everyone else was
> stupid.
>
>
> So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?
>
> http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html
>
>
> Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.
>
>
>
>
>
> I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft side of the
> fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in the Army and
> didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to me.  I started
> learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5.  However, the
> technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right Active Server
> Pages.
> Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was introduced to
> the Struts
> framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to ASP.
> I have been
> a believer ever since.
>
> One thing I noticed on the Non-MS side of the fence that I didn't
> see on the
> MS side was the bitterness and anger that some people have for the other
> side.
>
> I guess I just don't get it.  Some people at my last job actually
> treated me
> like sh## because I "used to be" an ASP developer.  H, I don't recall
> such hostility about Java developers from anyone at any of my previous MS
> shop jobs.
> In fact, one guy actually started talking to me and helping me
> only after he
> heard me tell a friend that I had just installed Linux on my laptop.
>
> WHAT THE FU$#$%#$%#$
>
> Where is this hatred coming from people?
> Why don't you just get over it and get a life!  Microsoft ISN'T going
> away!!!
>
> If you don't like their software, then stop using it..but
> just shut the
> hell up!!!
>
> JM
>
> P.S. Oh crap, I used spellchecker before sending this message.  Oh well,
> guess I'm not an e-mail guru.
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:52 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> > I think that it would be safe to say that the use of any form of
> > GUI with your editor would disqualify y

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[James Mitchell]

No, actually its an hourly rate.  $60 per hour for a six month contract,
which was just renewed for 3 months.  Depending on how you compute an annual
salary, that's close to $126k or so a year.

I happen to have had the pleasure of working with Chuck from before he
published the Java2 book and throughout the EJB2.0 book.  He is *NOT* one
the types that I mentioned earlier.
He's one the nicest guys I know.  I've never heard him say a mean word the
entire time I knew him.
Hopefully Paige won't drive him to it :-0  (sorry, inside joke)

You see, I don't think its really about Sun or Microsoft or Linux.  It's
about your personality.
If you are a jerk, then you will just be a jerk who bashes other people
and/or their chosen software.
If you not a jerk, then you will just shut up.

I have to give some credit to all the people on this list though.

You wouldn't be here if you weren't willing and able to help others and for
that I thank you!
JM






>Most of us here ARE trying to learn new things. Learning and
>using struts is indicative of forward thinking. Remember,
>any technology that doesn't have a published O'Reilly
>book (thanks Chuck! :-) counts as early adopter in my
>never so humble opinion.
>
>Simon
>
>-
>Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
>Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526




> -Original Message-
> From: SUPRIYA MISRA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:37 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> James,
> Did you say ASP and 6 digits? I bet the first digit was a zero ;-)
>
>
> >From: "Maris Orbidans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:19:09 +0300
> >
> >
> >I believe that the best IDE is TogetherSoft Control Center.  Beats even
> >.net Visual Studio.
> >
> >It's sad that CC costs so much :-(
> >
> >Maris Orbidans
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 5:13 PM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, OK.  So I said the
> > >
> > > This is so childish, almost comical!
> > > (Wish it was Friday)
> > >
> > > *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE
> > > person, I
> > > simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
> > > ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
> > >
> > > At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
> > > advancing?
> > > Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
> > >
> > > I've noticed a trend with such people.
> > >
> > > When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they
> > > were eager to
> > > learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
> > > considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
> > > powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.
> > >
> > > Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they
> > > had to defend
> > > their guru status.
> > > Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others
> > > to improve
> > > their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst
> > > themselves,
> > > trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus of today.
> > > Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.
> > >  Some of them
> > > still clung to their beliefs that they were right and
> > > everyone else was
> > > stupid.
> > >
> > >
> > > So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?
> > >
> > > http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft
> > > side of the
> > > fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[SUPRIYA MISRA]

James,
Did you say ASP and 6 digits? I bet the first digit was a zero ;-)


>From: "Maris Orbidans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:19:09 +0300
>
>
>I believe that the best IDE is TogetherSoft Control Center.  Beats even 
>.net Visual Studio.
>
>It's sad that CC costs so much :-(
>
>Maris Orbidans
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 5:13 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> > OK, OK.  So I said the
> >
> > This is so childish, almost comical!
> > (Wish it was Friday)
> >
> > *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE
> > person, I
> > simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
> > ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
> >
> > At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
> > advancing?
> > Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
> >
> > I've noticed a trend with such people.
> >
> > When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they
> > were eager to
> > learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
> > considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
> > powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.
> >
> > Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they
> > had to defend
> > their guru status.
> > Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others
> > to improve
> > their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst
> > themselves,
> > trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus of today.
> > Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.
> >  Some of them
> > still clung to their beliefs that they were right and
> > everyone else was
> > stupid.
> >
> >
> > So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?
> >
> > http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html
> >
> >
> > Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft
> > side of the
> > fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in
> > the Army and
> > didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to me.
> >  I started
> > learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5.
> > However, the
> > technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right
> > Active Server
> > Pages.
> > Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was
> > introduced to the Struts
> > framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to
> > ASP.  I have been
> > a believer ever since.
> >
> > One thing I noticed on the Non-MS side of the fence that I
> > didn't see on the
> > MS side was the bitterness and anger that some people have
> > for the other
> > side.
> >
> > I guess I just don't get it.  Some people at my last job
> > actually treated me
> > like sh## because I "used to be" an ASP developer.  H, I
> > don't recall
> > such hostility about Java developers from anyone at any of my
> > previous MS
> > shop jobs.
> > In fact, one guy actually started talking to me and helping
> > me only after he
> > heard me tell a friend that I had just installed Linux on my laptop.
> >
> > WHAT THE FU$#$%#$%#$
> >
> > Where is this hatred coming from people?
> > Why don't you just get over it and get a life!  Microsoft ISN'T going
> > away!!!
> >
> > If you don't like their software, then stop using it..but
> > just shut the
> > hell up!!!
> >
> > JM
> >
> > P.S. Oh crap, I used spellchecker before sending this
> > message.  Oh well,
> > guess I'm not an e-mail guru.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:52 AM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > >
> > >
> &

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Chappell, Simon P]

I'm glad that you have gotten your feelings off your chest, I hope that you feel 
better now. Some of us were just having a little fun. In case you missed it, there 
were lots of smilies on most of these messages.

Most of us here ARE trying to learn new things. Learning and using struts is 
indicative of forward thinking. Remember, any technology that doesn't have a published 
O'Reilly book (thanks Chuck! :-) counts as early adopter in my never so humble opinion.

Simon

-
Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526


>-Original Message-
>From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:09 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>



>
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:52 AM
>> To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>>
>>
>> I think that it would be safe to say that the use of any form of
>> GUI with your editor would disqualify you from the higher levels
>> of Guruhood. If you can't type it, then it isn't real. Who needs
>> search and replace dialogues when you can type
>>
>>  :%s/string1/string2/g
>>
>> Is that not a beautiful thing? :-)
>>
>> Simon
>>
>> -
>> Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
>> Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
>>
>>
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 6:53 PM
>> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> >Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> >
>> >
>> >Okay, I have to ask a question of all of you emacs/vi
>> >developers out there
>> >with S's on your chests:
>> >
>> >Are graphical versions of these tools allowed in the kindom of
>> >Studcodia, or
>> >monochromatic versions only? ;)
>> >
>> >peace,
>> >
>> >Joe Barefoot
>> >
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:38 PM
>> >> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>> >> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Well, I'm sure your tool is bigger than mine.
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-
>> >> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 4:03 PM
>> >> To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> >> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Actually, its a 'my tool is better than your lack of one' rant :-)
>> >>
>> >> JM
>> >>
>> >> > -Original Message-
>> >> > From: Schneider, Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:50 PM
>> >> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>> >> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm enjoying the 'my tool is better than your tool' rant.
>> >> >
>> >> > Your talk of assembly line workers reminds me of analogies
>> >I've read in
>> >> > engineering books.  Many have references to the industrial
>> >> revolution and
>> >> > how productivity and efficiency skyrocketed with the use of
>> >> > assembly lines.
>> >> > But I guess that's only true for uninteresting factory crap.
>> >> >
>> >> > e.
>> >> >
>> >> > > -Original Message-
>> >> > > From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:24 PM
>> >> > > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>> >> > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > A more appropriate analogy would be hand-made furniture vs.
>> >>

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Maris Orbidans]

I believe that the best IDE is TogetherSoft Control Center.  Beats even .net Visual 
Studio.

It's sad that CC costs so much :-(

Maris Orbidans

> -Original Message-
> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 5:13 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> 
> 
> OK, OK.  So I said the
> 
> This is so childish, almost comical!
> (Wish it was Friday)
> 
> *Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE 
> person, I
> simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
> ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.
> 
> At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
> advancing?
> Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?
> 
> I've noticed a trend with such people.
> 
> When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they 
> were eager to
> learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
> considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
> powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.
> 
> Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they 
> had to defend
> their guru status.
> Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others 
> to improve
> their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst 
> themselves,
> trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus of today.
> Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up. 
>  Some of them
> still clung to their beliefs that they were right and 
> everyone else was
> stupid.
> 
> 
> So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?
> 
> http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft 
> side of the
> fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in 
> the Army and
> didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to me. 
>  I started
> learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5.  
> However, the
> technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right 
> Active Server
> Pages.
> Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was 
> introduced to the Struts
> framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to 
> ASP.  I have been
> a believer ever since.
> 
> One thing I noticed on the Non-MS side of the fence that I 
> didn't see on the
> MS side was the bitterness and anger that some people have 
> for the other
> side.
> 
> I guess I just don't get it.  Some people at my last job 
> actually treated me
> like sh## because I "used to be" an ASP developer.  H, I 
> don't recall
> such hostility about Java developers from anyone at any of my 
> previous MS
> shop jobs.
> In fact, one guy actually started talking to me and helping 
> me only after he
> heard me tell a friend that I had just installed Linux on my laptop.
> 
> WHAT THE FU$#$%#$%#$
> 
> Where is this hatred coming from people?
> Why don't you just get over it and get a life!  Microsoft ISN'T going
> away!!!
> 
> If you don't like their software, then stop using it..but 
> just shut the
> hell up!!!
> 
> JM
> 
> P.S. Oh crap, I used spellchecker before sending this 
> message.  Oh well,
> guess I'm not an e-mail guru.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:52 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> > I think that it would be safe to say that the use of any form of
> > GUI with your editor would disqualify you from the higher levels
> > of Guruhood. If you can't type it, then it isn't real. Who needs
> > search and replace dialogues when you can type
> >
> >  :%s/string1/string2/g
> >
> > Is that not a beautiful thing? :-)
> >
> > Simon
> >
> > -
> > Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
> > Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
> >
> >
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 6:53 PM
> > >To: Struts Users Mailing List
>

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Galbreath, Mark]

This reminds me of those great flame wars between Mac and IBM PC users in
the late 80s.  Now I'm all weepy-eyed and nostalgic for those days in the
Underground BBS networks.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:09 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development


This is so childish, almost comical!
(Wish it was Friday)

*Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE person, I
simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.

At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
advancing?
Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?

I've noticed a trend with such people.

When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they were eager to
learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.

Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they had to defend
their guru status.
Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others to improve
their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst themselves,
trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus of today.
Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.  Some of them
still clung to their beliefs that they were right and everyone else was
stupid.


So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?

http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html


Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.





I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft side of the
fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in the Army and
didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to me.  I started
learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5.  However, the
technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right Active Server
Pages.
Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was introduced to the Struts
framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to ASP.  I have been
a believer ever since.

One thing I noticed on the Non-MS side of the fence that I didn't see on the
MS side was the bitterness and anger that some people have for the other
side.

I guess I just don't get it.  Some people at my last job actually treated me
like shit because I "used to be" an ASP developer.  H, I don't recall
such hostility about Java developers from anyone at any of my previous MS
shop jobs.
In fact, one guy actually started talking to me and helping me only after he
heard me tell a friend that I had just installed Linux on my laptop.

WHAT THE FU$#$%#$%#$

Where is this hatred coming from people?
Why don't you just get over it and get a life!  Microsoft ISN'T going
away!!!

If you don't like their software, then stop using it..but just shut the
hell up!!!

JM

P.S. Oh crap, I used spellchecker before sending this message.  Oh well,
guess I'm not an e-mail guru.




> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:52 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> I think that it would be safe to say that the use of any form of
> GUI with your editor would disqualify you from the higher levels
> of Guruhood. If you can't type it, then it isn't real. Who needs
> search and replace dialogues when you can type
>
>  :%s/string1/string2/g
>
> Is that not a beautiful thing? :-)
>
> Simon
>
> -
> Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
> Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
>
>
> >-----Original Message-
> >From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 6:53 PM
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> >Okay, I have to ask a question of all of you emacs/vi
> >developers out there
> >with S's on your chests:
> >
> >Are graphical versions of these tools allowed in the kindom of
> >Studcodia, or
> >monochromatic versions only? ;)
> >
> >peace,
> >
> >Joe Barefoot
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:38 PM
> >> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> >> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >&g

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[James Mitchell]

OK, OK.  So I said the

This is so childish, almost comical!
(Wish it was Friday)

*Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE person, I
simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.

At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
advancing?
Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?

I've noticed a trend with such people.

When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they were eager to
learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.

Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they had to defend
their guru status.
Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others to improve
their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst themselves,
trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus of today.
Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.  Some of them
still clung to their beliefs that they were right and everyone else was
stupid.


So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?

http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html


Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.





I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft side of the
fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in the Army and
didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to me.  I started
learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5.  However, the
technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right Active Server
Pages.
Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was introduced to the Struts
framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to ASP.  I have been
a believer ever since.

One thing I noticed on the Non-MS side of the fence that I didn't see on the
MS side was the bitterness and anger that some people have for the other
side.

I guess I just don't get it.  Some people at my last job actually treated me
like sh## because I "used to be" an ASP developer.  H, I don't recall
such hostility about Java developers from anyone at any of my previous MS
shop jobs.
In fact, one guy actually started talking to me and helping me only after he
heard me tell a friend that I had just installed Linux on my laptop.

WHAT THE FU$#$%#$%#$

Where is this hatred coming from people?
Why don't you just get over it and get a life!  Microsoft ISN'T going
away!!!

If you don't like their software, then stop using it..but just shut the
hell up!!!

JM

P.S. Oh crap, I used spellchecker before sending this message.  Oh well,
guess I'm not an e-mail guru.




> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:52 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> I think that it would be safe to say that the use of any form of
> GUI with your editor would disqualify you from the higher levels
> of Guruhood. If you can't type it, then it isn't real. Who needs
> search and replace dialogues when you can type
>
>  :%s/string1/string2/g
>
> Is that not a beautiful thing? :-)
>
> Simon
>
> -
> Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
> Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
>
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 6:53 PM
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> >Okay, I have to ask a question of all of you emacs/vi
> >developers out there
> >with S's on your chests:
> >
> >Are graphical versions of these tools allowed in the kindom of
> >Studcodia, or
> >monochromatic versions only? ;)
> >
> >peace,
> >
> >Joe Barefoot
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:38 PM
> >> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> >> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >>
> >>
> >> Well, I'm sure your tool is bigger than mine.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 4:03 PM
> >> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[James Mitchell]

This is so childish, almost comical!
(Wish it was Friday)

*Disclaimer - The following paragraph is not aimed at any ONE person, I
simply ask this of every developer who thinks they can spread their
ill-founded beliefs on everyone else.

At what point in Technology did YOU decide that it was time to stop
advancing?
Who the hell made YOU dictator to decide what qualifies as guru-hood?

I've noticed a trend with such people.

When they started out learning how to be a programmer, they were eager to
learn things and eager to try out new stuff.  Then, when they were
considered to be on the leading edge of technology, they felt REALLY
powerful and strong.  That's right, they were the gurus of the moment.

Then, all of a sudden something new came into town and they had to defend
their guru status.
Instead of embracing the newest technology and helping others to improve
their product (code), they were bitter and complained amongst themselves,
trying to convince each other that they were still the gurus of today.
Meanwhile, as the jobs for that type of work began to dry up.  Some of them
still clung to their beliefs that they were right and everyone else was
stupid.


So which one are you?  North-going or South-going?

http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~cs315/subpages/inline/Zax.html


Doesn't matter, you fit the qualifications for both.





I admit that I got my start as a developer on the Microsoft side of the
fence.  Why?  Well, because everything was free.  I was in the Army and
didn't make a lot of money so FREE sounded really good to me.  I started
learning html and moved right into Visual Basic 3, 4, and 5.  However, the
technology that got me into 6 figures was ASP.  That's right Active Server
Pages.
Then came along this phenomenon called Java.  I was introduced to the Struts
framework and quickly realized just how superior it was to ASP.  I have been
a believer ever since.

One thing I noticed on the Non-MS side of the fence that I didn't see on the
MS side was the bitterness and anger that some people have for the other
side.

I guess I just don't get it.  Some people at my last job actually treated me
like shit because I "used to be" an ASP developer.  H, I don't recall
such hostility about Java developers from anyone at any of my previous MS
shop jobs.
In fact, one guy actually started talking to me and helping me only after he
heard me tell a friend that I had just installed Linux on my laptop.

WHAT THE FU$#$%#$%#$

Where is this hatred coming from people?
Why don't you just get over it and get a life!  Microsoft ISN'T going
away!!!

If you don't like their software, then stop using it..but just shut the
hell up!!!

JM

P.S. Oh crap, I used spellchecker before sending this message.  Oh well,
guess I'm not an e-mail guru.




> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:52 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> I think that it would be safe to say that the use of any form of
> GUI with your editor would disqualify you from the higher levels
> of Guruhood. If you can't type it, then it isn't real. Who needs
> search and replace dialogues when you can type
>
>  :%s/string1/string2/g
>
> Is that not a beautiful thing? :-)
>
> Simon
>
> -
> Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
> Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
>
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 6:53 PM
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> >Okay, I have to ask a question of all of you emacs/vi
> >developers out there
> >with S's on your chests:
> >
> >Are graphical versions of these tools allowed in the kindom of
> >Studcodia, or
> >monochromatic versions only? ;)
> >
> >peace,
> >
> >Joe Barefoot
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:38 PM
> >> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> >> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >>
> >>
> >> Well, I'm sure your tool is bigger than mine.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 4:03 PM
> >> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> >> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >>
> >&g

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Chappell, Simon P]

I think that it would be safe to say that the use of any form of GUI with your editor 
would disqualify you from the higher levels of Guruhood. If you can't type it, then it 
isn't real. Who needs search and replace dialogues when you can type

 :%s/string1/string2/g

Is that not a beautiful thing? :-)

Simon

-
Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526


>-Original Message-
>From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 6:53 PM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
>Okay, I have to ask a question of all of you emacs/vi 
>developers out there
>with S's on your chests:
>
>Are graphical versions of these tools allowed in the kindom of 
>Studcodia, or
>monochromatic versions only? ;)
>
>peace,
>
>Joe Barefoot
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:38 PM
>> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>>
>>
>> Well, I'm sure your tool is bigger than mine.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 4:03 PM
>> To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>>
>>
>> Actually, its a 'my tool is better than your lack of one' rant :-)
>>
>> JM
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Schneider, Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:50 PM
>> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm enjoying the 'my tool is better than your tool' rant.
>> >
>> > Your talk of assembly line workers reminds me of analogies 
>I've read in
>> > engineering books.  Many have references to the industrial
>> revolution and
>> > how productivity and efficiency skyrocketed with the use of
>> > assembly lines.
>> > But I guess that's only true for uninteresting factory crap.
>> >
>> > e.
>> >
>> > > -Original Message-
>> > > From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:24 PM
>> > > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>> > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > A more appropriate analogy would be hand-made furniture vs.
>> > > the crap you buy
>> > > from a factory.  And carpenters are much more 
>interesting people than
>> > > assembly-line workers. (hint-hint)
>> > >
>> > > Mark
>> > >
>> > > -Original Message-
>> > > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:15 PM
>> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > No no, I have to agree with Mark.  Real programmers use text
>> > > editors just
>> > > like "Real" construction workers use pitch forks and shovels
>> > > and not those
>> > > fancy bull dozers and front-end loaders.
>> > >
>> > > What happened to the good-ole days where it took a year and
>> > > half to build a
>> > > house!!!
>> > >
>> > > JM
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > -Original Message-
>> > > > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:35 PM
>> > > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> > > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I have to go there  even if it isn't Friday! :-)
>> > > >
>> > > > REAL programmers use vi. EMACS is an operating system trying to
>> > > > pass itself off as a text editor (M ... LISP as your
>> > > > scripting language!).
>> > > >
>> > > > As an aside, even a relevent aside, I have been tinkering with
>> > > &g

Re: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Pete Carapetyan]

> No no, I have to agree with Mark.  Real programmers use text editors just
> like "Real" construction workers use pitch forks and shovels and not those
> fancy bull dozers and front-end loaders.
> 
> What happened to the good-ole days where it took a year and half to build a
> house!!!

"Galbreath, Mark" wrote:
> 
> A more appropriate analogy would be hand-made furniture vs. the crap you buy
> from a factory.  And carpenters are much more interesting people than
> assembly-line workers. (hint-hint)

Depends then, on whether or not one is just interested in getting something done to a 
particular standard, or in fraternizing with interesting people. Actions speak 
loudest, in this regard. 

I have built plenty of houses that took a year and a half to build, full of crafty 
work. The projects were full of roosters that spent half the time working and half the 
time displaying their fine feathers. That type of work seems to attract them. Which 
doesn't make the work within more valuable, just more non-standard, which is usually 
the owner's primary goal. This may or may not relate to the topic at hand. 

My current customers only care about results. Unique or difficult for the sake of 
interest is simply not a goal.

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
For additional commands, e-mail: 

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Galbreath, Mark]

The Windows version of EMACS is actually quite nice and can run in VI mode.
See: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/

BTW:  I should have saved this bait thread for tomorrow.  But thanks to
everyone who played!  ;-) .

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Joseph Barefoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 7:53 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development


Okay, I have to ask a question of all of you emacs/vi developers out there
with S's on your chests:

Are graphical versions of these tools allowed in the kindom of Studcodia, or
monochromatic versions only? ;)

peace,

Joe Barefoot

> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:38 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Well, I'm sure your tool is bigger than mine.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 4:03 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Actually, its a 'my tool is better than your lack of one' rant :-)
>
> JM
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Schneider, Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:50 PM
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> > I'm enjoying the 'my tool is better than your tool' rant.
> >
> > Your talk of assembly line workers reminds me of analogies I've read in
> > engineering books.  Many have references to the industrial
> revolution and
> > how productivity and efficiency skyrocketed with the use of
> > assembly lines.
> > But I guess that's only true for uninteresting factory crap.
> >
> > e.
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:24 PM
> > > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > >
> > >
> > > A more appropriate analogy would be hand-made furniture vs.
> > > the crap you buy
> > > from a factory.  And carpenters are much more interesting people than
> > > assembly-line workers. (hint-hint)
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:15 PM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > >
> > >
> > > No no, I have to agree with Mark.  Real programmers use text
> > > editors just
> > > like "Real" construction workers use pitch forks and shovels
> > > and not those
> > > fancy bull dozers and front-end loaders.
> > >
> > > What happened to the good-ole days where it took a year and
> > > half to build a
> > > house!!!
> > >
> > > JM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:35 PM
> > > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have to go there  even if it isn't Friday! :-)
> > > >
> > > > REAL programmers use vi. EMACS is an operating system trying to
> > > > pass itself off as a text editor (M ... LISP as your
> > > > scripting language!).
> > > >
> > > > As an aside, even a relevent aside, I have been tinkering with
> > > > jEdit (http://www.jedit.org) and have found it to be a very good
> > > > general text editor. It has a growing collection of plugins that
> > > > utilise such goodies as syntax highlighting, ant and refactoring
> > > > support. Check it out!
> > > >
> > > > Simon
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > > Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
> > > > Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >-Origi

Re: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Joel Rees]

> Your talk of assembly line workers reminds me of analogies I've read in
> engineering books.  Many have references to the industrial revolution and
> how productivity and efficiency skyrocketed with the use of assembly
lines.
> But I guess that's only true for uninteresting factory crap.

Like the boxes that run our tools.

> > A more appropriate analogy would be hand-made furniture vs.
> > the crap you buy
> > from a factory.  And carpenters are much more interesting people than
> > assembly-line workers. (hint-hint)

What is fascinating is that forty years ago, it was possible to encase most
of the important philosophical questions in an argument between assembler
and machine language.

The argument repeats itself, although it doesn't seem as tightly focused any
more. Too many tools, too many people trying to make their killing off the
tools. Too much ignoring all the tools used to build the ones we are now
arguing over. And the _most_ important question is still being overlooked.

There's something to think about as we approach the weekend.

BTW, I like vi better than emacs, but I prefer Codewarrior's editor on the
Mac for high-volume work. BBEDIT/perl is also fun. Nothing on MSW is
productive for me. No accounting for tastes, is there?

Joel Rees




--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
For additional commands, e-mail: 

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Joseph Barefoot]

Okay, I have to ask a question of all of you emacs/vi developers out there
with S's on your chests:

Are graphical versions of these tools allowed in the kindom of Studcodia, or
monochromatic versions only? ;)

peace,

Joe Barefoot

> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:38 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Well, I'm sure your tool is bigger than mine.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 4:03 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> Actually, its a 'my tool is better than your lack of one' rant :-)
>
> JM
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Schneider, Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:50 PM
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> > I'm enjoying the 'my tool is better than your tool' rant.
> >
> > Your talk of assembly line workers reminds me of analogies I've read in
> > engineering books.  Many have references to the industrial
> revolution and
> > how productivity and efficiency skyrocketed with the use of
> > assembly lines.
> > But I guess that's only true for uninteresting factory crap.
> >
> > e.
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:24 PM
> > > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > >
> > >
> > > A more appropriate analogy would be hand-made furniture vs.
> > > the crap you buy
> > > from a factory.  And carpenters are much more interesting people than
> > > assembly-line workers. (hint-hint)
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:15 PM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > >
> > >
> > > No no, I have to agree with Mark.  Real programmers use text
> > > editors just
> > > like "Real" construction workers use pitch forks and shovels
> > > and not those
> > > fancy bull dozers and front-end loaders.
> > >
> > > What happened to the good-ole days where it took a year and
> > > half to build a
> > > house!!!
> > >
> > > JM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:35 PM
> > > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have to go there  even if it isn't Friday! :-)
> > > >
> > > > REAL programmers use vi. EMACS is an operating system trying to
> > > > pass itself off as a text editor (M ... LISP as your
> > > > scripting language!).
> > > >
> > > > As an aside, even a relevent aside, I have been tinkering with
> > > > jEdit (http://www.jedit.org) and have found it to be a very good
> > > > general text editor. It has a growing collection of plugins that
> > > > utilise such goodies as syntax highlighting, ant and refactoring
> > > > support. Check it out!
> > > >
> > > > Simon
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > > Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
> > > > Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >-Original Message-
> > > > >From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:53 AM
> > > > >To: 'A mailing list for Java(tm) 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition'
> > > > >Cc: Struts (E-mail); Bartles, Todd; Bronner, Bryon; Harter, David;
> > > > >Kerstetter, Shawn; Mannam, Ram; Pakiru, Vamshidhar; Tony
> > > (E-mail); Veni
> >

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Galbreath, Mark]

Well, I'm sure your tool is bigger than mine.

-Original Message-
From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 4:03 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development


Actually, its a 'my tool is better than your lack of one' rant :-)

JM

> -Original Message-
> From: Schneider, Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:50 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> 
> 
> I'm enjoying the 'my tool is better than your tool' rant.
> 
> Your talk of assembly line workers reminds me of analogies I've read in
> engineering books.  Many have references to the industrial revolution and
> how productivity and efficiency skyrocketed with the use of 
> assembly lines.
> But I guess that's only true for uninteresting factory crap.
> 
> e.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:24 PM
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > 
> > 
> > A more appropriate analogy would be hand-made furniture vs. 
> > the crap you buy
> > from a factory.  And carpenters are much more interesting people than
> > assembly-line workers. (hint-hint)
> > 
> > Mark
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:15 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > 
> > 
> > No no, I have to agree with Mark.  Real programmers use text 
> > editors just
> > like "Real" construction workers use pitch forks and shovels 
> > and not those
> > fancy bull dozers and front-end loaders.
> > 
> > What happened to the good-ole days where it took a year and 
> > half to build a
> > house!!!
> > 
> > JM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:35 PM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > >
> > >
> > > I have to go there  even if it isn't Friday! :-)
> > >
> > > REAL programmers use vi. EMACS is an operating system trying to
> > > pass itself off as a text editor (M ... LISP as your
> > > scripting language!).
> > >
> > > As an aside, even a relevent aside, I have been tinkering with
> > > jEdit (http://www.jedit.org) and have found it to be a very good
> > > general text editor. It has a growing collection of plugins that
> > > utilise such goodies as syntax highlighting, ant and refactoring
> > > support. Check it out!
> > >
> > > Simon
> > >
> > > -
> > > Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
> > > Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
> > >
> > >
> > > >-Original Message-
> > > >From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:53 AM
> > > >To: 'A mailing list for Java(tm) 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition'
> > > >Cc: Struts (E-mail); Bartles, Todd; Bronner, Bryon; Harter, David;
> > > >Kerstetter, Shawn; Mannam, Ram; Pakiru, Vamshidhar; Tony 
> > (E-mail); Veni
> > > >(E-mail)
> > > >Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Real programmers use EMACS or VI. Period.
> > > >
> > > >http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html
> > > >
> > > >Mark
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Sandeep Takhar]

funny that James Gosling, or one of the gods at sun
made a comment about how ide's were useless and how
all good developers used emacs.

i probably took him out of context, but I remember
that he got into a lot of trouble over it...  i also
think that the general gist of the message was as I
mentioned (or maybe it was that ides were built for
bad developers?).

hopefully I got the right person, it may have been
Bill Joy, but anyways it was someone I consider
famous...

interesting comment though i still use ide's as
long as I have the resources...

i don't consider myself to be the most productive
developer and I'm not "old-school"

whatever gets the job done.

sandeep
--- "Schneider, Eric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I'm enjoying the 'my tool is better than your tool'
> rant.
> 
> Your talk of assembly line workers reminds me of
> analogies I've read in
> engineering books.  Many have references to the
> industrial revolution and
> how productivity and efficiency skyrocketed with the
> use of assembly lines.
> But I guess that's only true for uninteresting
> factory crap.
> 
> e.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Galbreath, Mark
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:24 PM
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > 
> > 
> > A more appropriate analogy would be hand-made
> furniture vs. 
> > the crap you buy
> > from a factory.  And carpenters are much more
> interesting people than
> > assembly-line workers. (hint-hint)
> > 
> > Mark
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: James Mitchell
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:15 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > 
> > 
> > No no, I have to agree with Mark.  Real
> programmers use text 
> > editors just
> > like "Real" construction workers use pitch forks
> and shovels 
> > and not those
> > fancy bull dozers and front-end loaders.
> > 
> > What happened to the good-ole days where it took a
> year and 
> > half to build a
> > house!!!
> > 
> > JM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Chappell, Simon P
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:35 PM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > >
> > >
> > > I have to go there  even if it isn't Friday!
> :-)
> > >
> > > REAL programmers use vi. EMACS is an operating
> system trying to
> > > pass itself off as a text editor (M ... LISP
> as your
> > > scripting language!).
> > >
> > > As an aside, even a relevent aside, I have been
> tinkering with
> > > jEdit (http://www.jedit.org) and have found it
> to be a very good
> > > general text editor. It has a growing collection
> of plugins that
> > > utilise such goodies as syntax highlighting, ant
> and refactoring
> > > support. Check it out!
> > >
> > > Simon
> > >
> > >
>
-
> > > Simon P. Chappell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Java Programming Specialist 
> www.landsend.com
> > > Lands' End, Inc.
>   (608) 935-4526
> > >
> > >
> > > >-Original Message-
> > > >From: Galbreath, Mark
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:53 AM
> > > >To: 'A mailing list for Java(tm) 2 Platform,
> Enterprise Edition'
> > > >Cc: Struts (E-mail); Bartles, Todd; Bronner,
> Bryon; Harter, David;
> > > >Kerstetter, Shawn; Mannam, Ram; Pakiru,
> Vamshidhar; Tony 
> > (E-mail); Veni
> > > >(E-mail)
> > > >Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Real programmers use EMACS or VI. Period.
> > > >
> > >
> >http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html
> > > >
> > > >Mark
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > >
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >
> > > >

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Kevin . Bedell]

Yes productivity skyrocketed.

They tied workeds to the assembly lines and had them mindlessly churning
out parts 12 hours a day 7 days a week.

Gosh - I long for those days...

Still using emacs,

FWIW -
Kevin





"Schneider, Eric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 04/17/2002 03:50:10 PM

Please respond to "Struts Users Mailing List"
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To:   "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:  RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development


I'm enjoying the 'my tool is better than your tool' rant.

Your talk of assembly line workers reminds me of analogies I've read in
engineering books.  Many have references to the industrial revolution and
how productivity and efficiency skyrocketed with the use of assembly lines.
But I guess that's only true for uninteresting factory crap.

e.

> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:24 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> A more appropriate analogy would be hand-made furniture vs.
> the crap you buy
> from a factory.  And carpenters are much more interesting people than
> assembly-line workers. (hint-hint)
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:15 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> No no, I have to agree with Mark.  Real programmers use text
> editors just
> like "Real" construction workers use pitch forks and shovels
> and not those
> fancy bull dozers and front-end loaders.
>
> What happened to the good-ole days where it took a year and
> half to build a
> house!!!
>
> JM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:35 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> > I have to go there  even if it isn't Friday! :-)
> >
> > REAL programmers use vi. EMACS is an operating system trying to
> > pass itself off as a text editor (M ... LISP as your
> > scripting language!).
> >
> > As an aside, even a relevent aside, I have been tinkering with
> > jEdit (http://www.jedit.org) and have found it to be a very good
> > general text editor. It has a growing collection of plugins that
> > utilise such goodies as syntax highlighting, ant and refactoring
> > support. Check it out!
> >
> > Simon
> >
> > -
> > Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
> > Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
> >
> >
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:53 AM
> > >To: 'A mailing list for Java(tm) 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition'
> > >Cc: Struts (E-mail); Bartles, Todd; Bronner, Bryon; Harter, David;
> > >Kerstetter, Shawn; Mannam, Ram; Pakiru, Vamshidhar; Tony
> (E-mail); Veni
> > >(E-mail)
> > >Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > >
> > >
> > >Real programmers use EMACS or VI. Period.
> > >
> > >http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html
> > >
> > >Mark
> > >
> > >--
> > >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >For additional commands, e-mail:
> > ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:struts-user-> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For
> additional commands,
> e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>


**
This message, including any attachments, contains confidential information
intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact sender immediately by
reply e-mail and destroy all copies.  You are hereby notified th

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Chappell, Simon P]

Can we at least all agree what we're enjoying arguing over? :-)

I was trying to start a good old fashioned vi/emacs flamewar and none of you are 
joining in! :-)

Simon

>-Original Message-
>From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:03 PM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
>Actually, its a 'my tool is better than your lack of one' rant :-)
>
>JM
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Schneider, Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:50 PM
>> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> 
>> 
>> I'm enjoying the 'my tool is better than your tool' rant.
>> 
>> Your talk of assembly line workers reminds me of analogies 
>I've read in
>> engineering books.  Many have references to the industrial 
>revolution and
>> how productivity and efficiency skyrocketed with the use of 
>> assembly lines.
>> But I guess that's only true for uninteresting factory crap.
>> 
>> e.
>> 
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:24 PM
>> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> > 
>> > 
>> > A more appropriate analogy would be hand-made furniture vs. 
>> > the crap you buy
>> > from a factory.  And carpenters are much more interesting 
>people than
>> > assembly-line workers. (hint-hint)
>> > 
>> > Mark
>> > 
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:15 PM
>> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> > 
>> > 
>> > No no, I have to agree with Mark.  Real programmers use text 
>> > editors just
>> > like "Real" construction workers use pitch forks and shovels 
>> > and not those
>> > fancy bull dozers and front-end loaders.
>> > 
>> > What happened to the good-ole days where it took a year and 
>> > half to build a
>> > house!!!
>> > 
>> > JM
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > > -Original Message-
>> > > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:35 PM
>> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
>> > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I have to go there  even if it isn't Friday! :-)
>> > >
>> > > REAL programmers use vi. EMACS is an operating system trying to
>> > > pass itself off as a text editor (M ... LISP as your
>> > > scripting language!).
>> > >
>> > > As an aside, even a relevent aside, I have been tinkering with
>> > > jEdit (http://www.jedit.org) and have found it to be a very good
>> > > general text editor. It has a growing collection of plugins that
>> > > utilise such goodies as syntax highlighting, ant and refactoring
>> > > support. Check it out!
>> > >
>> > > Simon
>> > >
>> > > -
>> > > Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > > Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
>> > > Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >-Original Message-
>> > > >From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:53 AM
>> > > >To: 'A mailing list for Java(tm) 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition'
>> > > >Cc: Struts (E-mail); Bartles, Todd; Bronner, Bryon; 
>Harter, David;
>> > > >Kerstetter, Shawn; Mannam, Ram; Pakiru, Vamshidhar; Tony 
>> > (E-mail); Veni
>> > > >(E-mail)
>> > > >Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >Real programmers use EMACS or VI. Period.
>> > > >
>> > > >http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html
>> > > >
>> > > >Mark
>> > > >
>> > > >--
>> > 

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[James Mitchell]

Actually, its a 'my tool is better than your lack of one' rant :-)

JM

> -Original Message-
> From: Schneider, Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:50 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> 
> 
> I'm enjoying the 'my tool is better than your tool' rant.
> 
> Your talk of assembly line workers reminds me of analogies I've read in
> engineering books.  Many have references to the industrial revolution and
> how productivity and efficiency skyrocketed with the use of 
> assembly lines.
> But I guess that's only true for uninteresting factory crap.
> 
> e.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:24 PM
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > 
> > 
> > A more appropriate analogy would be hand-made furniture vs. 
> > the crap you buy
> > from a factory.  And carpenters are much more interesting people than
> > assembly-line workers. (hint-hint)
> > 
> > Mark
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:15 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > 
> > 
> > No no, I have to agree with Mark.  Real programmers use text 
> > editors just
> > like "Real" construction workers use pitch forks and shovels 
> > and not those
> > fancy bull dozers and front-end loaders.
> > 
> > What happened to the good-ole days where it took a year and 
> > half to build a
> > house!!!
> > 
> > JM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:35 PM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > >
> > >
> > > I have to go there  even if it isn't Friday! :-)
> > >
> > > REAL programmers use vi. EMACS is an operating system trying to
> > > pass itself off as a text editor (M ... LISP as your
> > > scripting language!).
> > >
> > > As an aside, even a relevent aside, I have been tinkering with
> > > jEdit (http://www.jedit.org) and have found it to be a very good
> > > general text editor. It has a growing collection of plugins that
> > > utilise such goodies as syntax highlighting, ant and refactoring
> > > support. Check it out!
> > >
> > > Simon
> > >
> > > -
> > > Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
> > > Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
> > >
> > >
> > > >-Original Message-
> > > >From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:53 AM
> > > >To: 'A mailing list for Java(tm) 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition'
> > > >Cc: Struts (E-mail); Bartles, Todd; Bronner, Bryon; Harter, David;
> > > >Kerstetter, Shawn; Mannam, Ram; Pakiru, Vamshidhar; Tony 
> > (E-mail); Veni
> > > >(E-mail)
> > > >Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Real programmers use EMACS or VI. Period.
> > > >
> > > >http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html
> > > >
> > > >Mark
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> > <mailto:struts-user-> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For 
> > additional commands, 
> > e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> 
> 
> **
> This message, including any attachments, contains confidential 
> information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and 
> is protected by law.  If you are not the intended recipient, 
> please contact sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all 
> copies.  You are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or 
> distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based 
> on it, is strictly prohibited.
> TIAA-CREF
> **
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Schneider, Eric]

I'm enjoying the 'my tool is better than your tool' rant.

Your talk of assembly line workers reminds me of analogies I've read in
engineering books.  Many have references to the industrial revolution and
how productivity and efficiency skyrocketed with the use of assembly lines.
But I guess that's only true for uninteresting factory crap.

e.

> -Original Message-
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:24 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> 
> 
> A more appropriate analogy would be hand-made furniture vs. 
> the crap you buy
> from a factory.  And carpenters are much more interesting people than
> assembly-line workers. (hint-hint)
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:15 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> 
> 
> No no, I have to agree with Mark.  Real programmers use text 
> editors just
> like "Real" construction workers use pitch forks and shovels 
> and not those
> fancy bull dozers and front-end loaders.
> 
> What happened to the good-ole days where it took a year and 
> half to build a
> house!!!
> 
> JM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:35 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> > I have to go there  even if it isn't Friday! :-)
> >
> > REAL programmers use vi. EMACS is an operating system trying to
> > pass itself off as a text editor (M ... LISP as your
> > scripting language!).
> >
> > As an aside, even a relevent aside, I have been tinkering with
> > jEdit (http://www.jedit.org) and have found it to be a very good
> > general text editor. It has a growing collection of plugins that
> > utilise such goodies as syntax highlighting, ant and refactoring
> > support. Check it out!
> >
> > Simon
> >
> > -
> > Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
> > Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
> >
> >
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:53 AM
> > >To: 'A mailing list for Java(tm) 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition'
> > >Cc: Struts (E-mail); Bartles, Todd; Bronner, Bryon; Harter, David;
> > >Kerstetter, Shawn; Mannam, Ram; Pakiru, Vamshidhar; Tony 
> (E-mail); Veni
> > >(E-mail)
> > >Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> > >
> > >
> > >Real programmers use EMACS or VI. Period.
> > >
> > >http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html
> > >
> > >Mark
> > >
> > >--
> > >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >For additional commands, e-mail:
> > ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> <mailto:struts-user-> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For 
> additional commands, 
> e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 


**
This message, including any attachments, contains confidential information intended 
for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law.  If you are not the 
intended recipient, please contact sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all 
copies.  You are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this 
message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.
TIAA-CREF
**

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Galbreath, Mark]

A more appropriate analogy would be hand-made furniture vs. the crap you buy
from a factory.  And carpenters are much more interesting people than
assembly-line workers. (hint-hint)

Mark

-Original Message-
From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:15 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development


No no, I have to agree with Mark.  Real programmers use text editors just
like "Real" construction workers use pitch forks and shovels and not those
fancy bull dozers and front-end loaders.

What happened to the good-ole days where it took a year and half to build a
house!!!

JM






> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:35 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> I have to go there  even if it isn't Friday! :-)
>
> REAL programmers use vi. EMACS is an operating system trying to
> pass itself off as a text editor (M ... LISP as your
> scripting language!).
>
> As an aside, even a relevent aside, I have been tinkering with
> jEdit (http://www.jedit.org) and have found it to be a very good
> general text editor. It has a growing collection of plugins that
> utilise such goodies as syntax highlighting, ant and refactoring
> support. Check it out!
>
> Simon
>
> -
> Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
> Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
>
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:53 AM
> >To: 'A mailing list for Java(tm) 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition'
> >Cc: Struts (E-mail); Bartles, Todd; Bronner, Bryon; Harter, David;
> >Kerstetter, Shawn; Mannam, Ram; Pakiru, Vamshidhar; Tony (E-mail); Veni
> >(E-mail)
> >Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> >Real programmers use EMACS or VI. Period.
> >
> >http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html
> >
> >Mark
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >For additional commands, e-mail:
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>


--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For additional commands, e-mail:
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[James Mitchell]

No no, I have to agree with Mark.  Real programmers use text editors just
like "Real" construction workers use pitch forks and shovels and not those
fancy bull dozers and front-end loaders.

What happened to the good-ole days where it took a year and half to build a
house!!!

JM






> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:35 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
> I have to go there  even if it isn't Friday! :-)
>
> REAL programmers use vi. EMACS is an operating system trying to
> pass itself off as a text editor (M ... LISP as your
> scripting language!).
>
> As an aside, even a relevent aside, I have been tinkering with
> jEdit (http://www.jedit.org) and have found it to be a very good
> general text editor. It has a growing collection of plugins that
> utilise such goodies as syntax highlighting, ant and refactoring
> support. Check it out!
>
> Simon
>
> -
> Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
> Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526
>
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:53 AM
> >To: 'A mailing list for Java(tm) 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition'
> >Cc: Struts (E-mail); Bartles, Todd; Bronner, Bryon; Harter, David;
> >Kerstetter, Shawn; Mannam, Ram; Pakiru, Vamshidhar; Tony (E-mail); Veni
> >(E-mail)
> >Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
> >
> >
> >Real programmers use EMACS or VI. Period.
> >
> >http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html
> >
> >Mark
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >For additional commands, e-mail:
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>


--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Chappell, Simon P]

I have to go there  even if it isn't Friday! :-)

REAL programmers use vi. EMACS is an operating system trying to pass itself off as a 
text editor (M ... LISP as your scripting language!).

As an aside, even a relevent aside, I have been tinkering with jEdit 
(http://www.jedit.org) and have found it to be a very good general text editor. It has 
a growing collection of plugins that utilise such goodies as syntax highlighting, ant 
and refactoring support. Check it out!

Simon

-
Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Java Programming Specialist  www.landsend.com
Lands' End, Inc.   (608) 935-4526


>-Original Message-
>From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:53 AM
>To: 'A mailing list for Java(tm) 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition'
>Cc: Struts (E-mail); Bartles, Todd; Bronner, Bryon; Harter, David;
>Kerstetter, Shawn; Mannam, Ram; Pakiru, Vamshidhar; Tony (E-mail); Veni
>(E-mail)
>Subject: RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development
>
>
>Real programmers use EMACS or VI. Period.
>
>http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html
>
>Mark
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>For additional commands, e-mail: 
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

RE: IDE for EJB2.0 development

[Galbreath, Mark]

Real programmers use EMACS or VI. Period.

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html

Mark

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
For additional commands, e-mail: