Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel speakers setup

[Emanuele Costantini]

Hello everyone,
a massive thank you for answering to my post and feeding some great 
suggestions, which I will keep for when the time will come to expand to 
a proper studio.
For my actual needs I then bought an "Audio Dynamix Atom V2i" to give it 
a go for a test. They sound so bad I packed it back after a couple of 
minutes on the bench.
I then went for my original ones and bought three more pairs of Bose 
ComputerMonitor.
As I need to build cable extensions for those and they are using 
prioritary connectors I spent a couple of days with thier support to try 
to find out what connectors do they use, but they don't have a clue. I 
now decided to cut the wires in half and solder standard connectors in 
order to be able to build my own extensions.


Thanks againg for your help.

Emanuele
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Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel speakers setup

[len moskowitz]

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 01:27 PM, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:


http://www.tonepublications.com/spotlight/world-premier-review-kef-x300a-powered-speakers/ 


Good find!
Add the X300As to a MOTU 16A and you've got a simple, good sounding, up 
to 16-channel playback system. Feed the MOTU via USB 2.0, Thunderbolt or 
Network. Run 1/4" TS from the MOTU to the X300A's 3.5 mm.

    www.motu.com/products/avb/16a
I wonder if the MOTU's USB 2.0 can handle 16 channels? Its Thunderbolt 
interface probably can, and the Network certainly can.


Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic




This might be a powered alternative KEF version at lower cost :-)


Connectivity is not great USB or 3.5 mm analog connection.


Bo-Erik


2016-05-15 18:24 GMT+02:00 len moskowitz  >:
Probably the finest of the "point-source" speakers available these days 
is the KEF LS50. It uses a version of their Uni-Q driver. (A much 
earlier version of this driver was used in the KEF Egg.)






Measurements of the LS50 by John Atkinson (Stereophile magazine) show it 
to be an outstanding design.






  
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-anniversary-model-loudspeaker-measurements#8FdHrXV2vIpIFjE3.97 







  
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/tale-two-speakers#5Q3dlYfxU3cLRUup.97 







It is quite small.





A pair of them retails in the US for around $1300.







Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com  
)


Core Sound LLC

www.core-sound.com 

Home of TetraMic


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Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel speakers setup

[JJ Wiesler]

Just joined. Hi everyone. Loving this!
I am setting up cubic array.
Have done so with Gallo Nucleas on light stands. Easy to mount but bit full
frequency.

Anybody have mounting suggestions for more size able powered speakers like
the KEFs?

JJ

On Sunday, May 15, 2016, Bo-Erik Sandholm > wrote:

>
> http://www.tonepublications.com/spotlight/world-premier-review-kef-x300a-powered-speakers/
>
> This might be a powered alternative KEF version at lower cost :-)
>
> Connectivity is not great USB or 3.5 mm analog connection.
>
> Bo-Erik
>
> 2016-05-15 18:24 GMT+02:00 len moskowitz :
>
> > Probably the finest of the "point-source" speakers available these days
> is
> > the KEF LS50. It uses a version of their Uni-Q driver. (A much earlier
> > version of this driver was used in the KEF Egg.)
> >
> >
> > Measurements of the LS50 by John Atkinson (Stereophile magazine) show it
> > to be an outstanding design.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-anniversary-model-loudspeaker-measurements#8FdHrXV2vIpIFjE3.97
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.stereophile.com/content/tale-two-speakers#5Q3dlYfxU3cLRUup.97
> >
> >
> > It is quite small.
> >
> >
> > A pair of them retails in the US for around $1300.
> >
> >
> >
> > Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
> > Core Sound LLC
> > www.core-sound.com
> > Home of TetraMic
> >
> > ___
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> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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-- 
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web pollenmusicgroup.com
web decibellerecording.com
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Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel speakers setup

[len moskowitz]

Probably the finest of the "point-source" speakers available these days 
is the KEF LS50. It uses a version of their Uni-Q driver. (A much 
earlier version of this driver was used in the KEF Egg.)



Measurements of the LS50 by John Atkinson (Stereophile magazine) show it 
to be an outstanding design.



  
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-anniversary-model-loudspeaker-measurements#8FdHrXV2vIpIFjE3.97



  
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/tale-two-speakers#5Q3dlYfxU3cLRUup.97



It is quite small.


A pair of them retails in the US for around $1300.



Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic
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Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel speakers setup

[søren Bendixen]

A few years back I searched for new monitors - found PSI audio - and now
I´m an ambassador of the brand. But no salesspeech - I bought the A17 - m
for studio use but they also have the A14 - m for smaller needs.
The A17 - m is the best, most neutral monitor I ever had (used to ADAM -
all kinds from A5 to s3A, and genelec (the smaller ones), Tannoy (in
exhibition - the new ones...), JBl (the old ones..), B, Yamaha,
Digidesign RM2

It is expensive, at least in Denmark (my country), but just excellent. Not
waterproof though..
http://www.psiaudio.com/en/

regards
Søren Bendixen

2016-05-12 21:19 GMT+02:00 Emanuele Costantini :

> Hello everyone,
>
> due to the lack of space in modern houses, I am in need to look for small
> speakers to get on with my multichannel projects, here at home and ideally
> to bring them with me in small spaces to playback my works.
> For my stereo projects I have been using Bose ComputerMonitor:
>
>
> https://www.bose.co.uk/GB/en/home-and-personal-audio/speakers/stereo/computer-musicmonitor/
>
> and I have been able to deliver final mixes matching bigger systems, or
> needing small adjustments. Ideally I would like to expand that system but I
> find annoying they use specific connectors and they work in couple, so
> connecting it from my RME ADI8 it would be a bit of a trick to do also
> because I will need an odd number of those (5 or 7 ?)
> I've been scouting on the internet and I've seen few options.
> I am intrigued by the JBL LSR305
>
>
> http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/3-series/lsr305#.VzTQ5mbtZE4
>
> being that brand the standard for cinema sound and that industry being my
> main income, I quite like to get that way, but despite being quite small
> they are still a bit big and heavy, unfortunately.
> I found the Fostex PM03.d and PM 04.d
>
>
> http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/products/PM0.4d.shtml#content-3-tab-tab
>
> Which are smaller and lighter, but the specifics are not that great, the
> 04.d are better though.
> Adam F5:
>
> http://www.adam-audio.com/en/pro-audio/products/f5/technical-data
>
> They look like the best of the range. Obviously to deliver those
> characteristics they have to be heavy, a bit too much and not that small.
> A friend of mine has a stereo system of MAudio AV42:
>
> http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/av42#.VzSSzWbtZE4
>
> Which doesn't sound bad at all even if they are working in couple they
> have more standard connections, so I could do my own extensions.
> In that case I've been looking at the bigger brothers MAudio BX5 D2,
> slighlty bigger and heavier:
>
> http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/bx5-d2#.VzSUrWbtZE4
>
> I am wondering if anyone has an hint to suggest or other brands/model to
> consider or was surpises by the sound of smaller systems, Bose docet,
> like... ehm logitech? ;-)
> :-)
>
> Thanks a lot in advance for your suggestions.
>
> Emanuele
>
>
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Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel speakers setup

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Secondhand hand Kef eggs from online auction sites is my source for
speakers.

Around 300 usd have given me 5 eggs som sometimes even included a sub.

Bo-Erik
Den 13 maj 2016 21:02 skrev "Eric Benjamin" :

> This is all good stuff. I'd like to add some info about the system aspects.
>
> Speaker mounting. This can be nontrivial. I know of one professional
> periphonic installation where the cost of the stands was more than the
> speakers. And mounting speakers at height can be very difficult. If the
> speakers are heavy then it can be difficult and dangerous. I'm right in the
> middle of mounting several 50 lb speakers on the ceiling of my listening
> room. I couldn't find a suitable manufactured mount so I'm fabricating my
> own. My felling is plywood just to be able to support the speakers.
>
> Passive vs powered
> When I built my first system there were very few inexpensive multichannel
> power amplifiers, so powers speakers seamed like the way to go. But powered
> speakers require that you run two cables instead of just one to each
> speaker. I'm still doing that. Now there are (relatively) inexpensive
> amplifiers like the Dayton 1240 that give lots of channels. And Marc's
> suggestion of very inexpensive amplifier modules is tempting. Too bad no
> one makes something like 8 x 15 watts in a 1u package.
>
> Coaxial speakers vs conventional 2-way
> I'm including full-range in with coax. Enthusiasts of coax tout the fact
> that coax speakers are effectively point sources. My belief is that the
> primary advantage is in the off-axis responses. Two way speakers are
> designed to have flat on-axis response, but off axis there are nulls in the
> response which appear above and below the principle axis. But there are
> relatively few coaxial speakers from which to choose.
>
> That's it for now.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 13, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Marc Lavallee  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 13 May 2016 09:44:58 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote:
> >>> From: "Emanuele Costantini":
> >>> Gallo A'Diva and ORB audio, I think they need an amplfier in order
> >>> to work, which is not an option due to lack of room space.
> >>
> >> I would bet that the spherical speakers and the requisite amplifier
> >> take up not more space than most powered speakers.
> >> If you're going cost conscious you can use the small digital amps
> >> from the likes of SMSL & Parts Express. I have one that delivers
> >> 50w/c in 1/4 of 1 RU. That is, you can fit 4 into a 1 RU space.
> >
> > I use a few identical amp modules, with 2 or more channels per amp:
> >
> http://store3.sure-electronics.com/audio/audio-amplifier-board?dir=asc=price
> > In a small room, with small speakers, 15 watts per channel is enough.
> > The same store have a selection of power supplies. My solution is to
> > use the power supply of a dedicated PC, where I installed all the amp
> > modules in the drive bays. The 450W power supply is completely silent,
> > as well as the rest of the PC (no fans at all, only passive cooling).
> > --
> > Marc
> > ___
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Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel speakers setup

[Eric Benjamin]

This is all good stuff. I'd like to add some info about the system aspects.

Speaker mounting. This can be nontrivial. I know of one professional periphonic 
installation where the cost of the stands was more than the speakers. And 
mounting speakers at height can be very difficult. If the speakers are heavy 
then it can be difficult and dangerous. I'm right in the middle of mounting 
several 50 lb speakers on the ceiling of my listening room. I couldn't find a 
suitable manufactured mount so I'm fabricating my own. My felling is plywood 
just to be able to support the speakers. 

Passive vs powered
When I built my first system there were very few inexpensive multichannel power 
amplifiers, so powers speakers seamed like the way to go. But powered speakers 
require that you run two cables instead of just one to each speaker. I'm still 
doing that. Now there are (relatively) inexpensive amplifiers like the Dayton 
1240 that give lots of channels. And Marc's suggestion of very inexpensive 
amplifier modules is tempting. Too bad no one makes something like 8 x 15 watts 
in a 1u package.

Coaxial speakers vs conventional 2-way
I'm including full-range in with coax. Enthusiasts of coax tout the fact that 
coax speakers are effectively point sources. My belief is that the primary 
advantage is in the off-axis responses. Two way speakers are designed to have 
flat on-axis response, but off axis there are nulls in the response which 
appear above and below the principle axis. But there are relatively few coaxial 
speakers from which to choose. 

That's it for now. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 13, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Marc Lavallee  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 13 May 2016 09:44:58 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote:
>>> From: "Emanuele Costantini":
>>> Gallo A'Diva and ORB audio, I think they need an amplfier in order
>>> to work, which is not an option due to lack of room space.
>> 
>> I would bet that the spherical speakers and the requisite amplifier
>> take up not more space than most powered speakers. 
>> If you're going cost conscious you can use the small digital amps
>> from the likes of SMSL & Parts Express. I have one that delivers
>> 50w/c in 1/4 of 1 RU. That is, you can fit 4 into a 1 RU space.
> 
> I use a few identical amp modules, with 2 or more channels per amp:
> http://store3.sure-electronics.com/audio/audio-amplifier-board?dir=asc=price
> In a small room, with small speakers, 15 watts per channel is enough.
> The same store have a selection of power supplies. My solution is to
> use the power supply of a dedicated PC, where I installed all the amp
> modules in the drive bays. The 450W power supply is completely silent,
> as well as the rest of the PC (no fans at all, only passive cooling).
> --
> Marc
> ___
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Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel speakers setup

[Marc Lavallee]

On Fri, 13 May 2016 09:44:58 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote:
>> From: "Emanuele Costantini":
>> Gallo A'Diva and ORB audio, I think they need an amplfier in order
>> to work, which is not an option due to lack of room space.
>
> I would bet that the spherical speakers and the requisite amplifier
> take up not more space than most powered speakers. 
> If you're going cost conscious you can use the small digital amps
> from the likes of SMSL & Parts Express. I have one that delivers
> 50w/c in 1/4 of 1 RU. That is, you can fit 4 into a 1 RU space.

I use a few identical amp modules, with 2 or more channels per amp:
http://store3.sure-electronics.com/audio/audio-amplifier-board?dir=asc=price
In a small room, with small speakers, 15 watts per channel is enough.
The same store have a selection of power supplies. My solution is to
use the power supply of a dedicated PC, where I installed all the amp
modules in the drive bays. The 450W power supply is completely silent,
as well as the rest of the PC (no fans at all, only passive cooling).
--
Marc
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Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel speakers setup

[mgraves]

Back in 2009 a gentleman created a simple, portable  Ambisonic cube playback 
environment using Gallo Acoustics small A'Diva spheres.
 
For the home this seems to be a step above the Logitech approach, but well more 
approachable than Genelecs.
 
Michael
 
- Original Message - Subject: Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel 
speakers setup
From: "Ilpo Martikainen" <ilpo.martikai...@genelec.com>
Date: 5/12/16 11:25 pm
To: "Surround Sound discussion group" <sursound@music.vt.edu>

Hi,
 
 What about the tiny 
http://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/8000-series-studio-monitors/8010a-studio-monitor
 A little larger with 4 in woofer 
http://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/8000-series-studio-monitors/8020c-studio-monitor
 and same size with network and room acoustics measurements and calibration 
capabilities 
http://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/sam-studio-monitors/8320a-sam-studio-monitor
 
 Best regards,
 
 Ilpo
 
 
 On 12 May 2016, at 22:19, Emanuele Costantini 
<lamacchiaco...@yahoo.it><mailto:lamacchiaco...@yahoo.it>> wrote:
 
 Hello everyone,
 
 due to the lack of space in modern houses, I am in need to look for small 
speakers to get on with my multichannel projects, here at home and ideally to 
bring them with me in small spaces to playback my works.
 For my stereo projects I have been using Bose ComputerMonitor:
 
 
https://www.bose.co.uk/GB/en/home-and-personal-audio/speakers/stereo/computer-musicmonitor/
 
 and I have been able to deliver final mixes matching bigger systems, or 
needing small adjustments. Ideally I would like to expand that system but I 
find annoying they use specific connectors and they work in couple, so 
connecting it from my RME ADI8 it would be a bit of a trick to do also because 
I will need an odd number of those (5 or 7 ?)
 I've been scouting on the internet and I've seen few options.
 I am intrigued by the JBL LSR305
 
 
http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/3-series/lsr305#.VzTQ5mbtZE4
 
 being that brand the standard for cinema sound and that industry being my main 
income, I quite like to get that way, but despite being quite small they are 
still a bit big and heavy, unfortunately.
 I found the Fostex PM03.d and PM 04.d
 
 http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/products/PM0.4d.shtml#content-3-tab-tab
 
 Which are smaller and lighter, but the specifics are not that great, the 04.d 
are better though.
 Adam F5:
 
 http://www.adam-audio.com/en/pro-audio/products/f5/technical-data
 
 They look like the best of the range. Obviously to deliver those 
characteristics they have to be heavy, a bit too much and not that small.
 A friend of mine has a stereo system of MAudio AV42:
 
 http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/av42#.VzSSzWbtZE4
 
 Which doesn't sound bad at all even if they are working in couple they have 
more standard connections, so I could do my own extensions.
 In that case I've been looking at the bigger brothers MAudio BX5 D2, slighlty 
bigger and heavier:
 
 http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/bx5-d2#.VzSUrWbtZE4
 
 I am wondering if anyone has an hint to suggest or other brands/model to 
consider or was surpises by the sound of smaller systems, Bose docet, like... 
ehm logitech? ;-)
 :-)
 
 Thanks a lot in advance for your suggestions.
 
 Emanuele
 
 
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Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel speakers setup

[Ilpo Martikainen]

Hi,

What about the tiny  
http://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/8000-series-studio-monitors/8010a-studio-monitor
A little larger with 4 in woofer 
http://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/8000-series-studio-monitors/8020c-studio-monitor
  and same size with network and room acoustics measurements and calibration 
capabilities 
http://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/sam-studio-monitors/8320a-sam-studio-monitor

Best regards,

Ilpo


On 12 May 2016, at 22:19, Emanuele Costantini 
> wrote:

Hello everyone,

due to the lack of space in modern houses, I am in need to look for small 
speakers to get on with my multichannel projects, here at home and ideally to 
bring them with me in small spaces to playback my works.
For my stereo projects I have been using Bose ComputerMonitor:

https://www.bose.co.uk/GB/en/home-and-personal-audio/speakers/stereo/computer-musicmonitor/

and I have been able to deliver final mixes matching bigger systems, or needing 
small adjustments. Ideally I would like to expand that system but I find 
annoying they use specific connectors and they work in couple, so connecting it 
from my RME ADI8 it would be a bit of a trick to do also because I will need an 
odd number of those (5 or 7 ?)
I've been scouting on the internet and I've seen few options.
I am intrigued by the JBL LSR305

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/3-series/lsr305#.VzTQ5mbtZE4

being that brand the standard for cinema sound and that industry being my main 
income, I quite like to get that way, but despite being quite small they are 
still a bit big and heavy, unfortunately.
I found the Fostex PM03.d and PM 04.d

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/products/PM0.4d.shtml#content-3-tab-tab

Which are smaller and lighter, but the specifics are not that great, the 04.d 
are better though.
Adam F5:

http://www.adam-audio.com/en/pro-audio/products/f5/technical-data

They look like the best of the range. Obviously to deliver those 
characteristics they have to be heavy, a bit too much and not that small.
A friend of mine has a stereo system of MAudio AV42:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/av42#.VzSSzWbtZE4

Which doesn't sound bad at all even if they are working in couple they have 
more standard connections, so I could do my own extensions.
In that case I've been looking at the bigger brothers MAudio BX5 D2, slighlty 
bigger and heavier:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/bx5-d2#.VzSUrWbtZE4

I am wondering if anyone has an hint to suggest or other brands/model to 
consider or was surpises by the sound of smaller systems, Bose docet, like... 
ehm logitech? ;-)
:-)

Thanks a lot in advance for your suggestions.

Emanuele


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Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel speakers setup

[Augustine Leudar]

actually I do. Its a bit odd - but the Audio dynamix atomix v2 has been
described as a mini ns10 translating well to other systems. I ue it and it
works well.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Uprated-Audio-Dynamix-Atom-V2i-Rechargeable-Silver/dp/B00DX788SI

Its also similar to the Ns10 in that it was a consumer hifi speaker that
turned out to have studio use I tuses line in or bluetooth - although
bluetooth restricts bandwidth - it still works well.

Here is a review from Ott (quite faous dub producer and engineer renowned
for his production skills)

http://web.archive.org/web/20150619061917/http://www.ottsonic.net/new-studio/

Its a steal !

On 12 May 2016 at 20:52, Michael Chapman  wrote:

> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > due to the lack of space in modern houses, I am in need to look for
> > small speakers to get on with my multichannel projects, here at home and
> > ideally to bring them with me in small spaces to playback my works.
> > For my stereo projects I have been using Bose ComputerMonitor:
> >
>
> > I am wondering if anyone has an hint to suggest or other brands/model to
> > consider or was surpises by the sound of smaller systems, Bose docet,
> > like... ehm logitech? ;-)
> > :-)
>
> Well, it was you that mentionned Logitech :-)>
>
> For a really bad (but economical) system almpst a decade old
> 
> It worked!
>
> Good luck,
>
> Michael
>
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Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel speakers setup

[Emanuele Costantini]

Hi Michael,

yes I've seen that page before. I like that idea to experiment and I 
would like to know if there are better speakers to use.


Thanks.

Emauele


On 12/05/2016 20:52, Michael Chapman wrote:

Hello everyone,

due to the lack of space in modern houses, I am in need to look for
small speakers to get on with my multichannel projects, here at home and
ideally to bring them with me in small spaces to playback my works.
For my stereo projects I have been using Bose ComputerMonitor:

I am wondering if anyone has an hint to suggest or other brands/model to
consider or was surpises by the sound of smaller systems, Bose docet,
like... ehm logitech? ;-)
:-)

Well, it was you that mentionned Logitech :-)>

For a really bad (but economical) system almpst a decade old

It worked!

Good luck,

Michael

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