[biofuel] combined pumping & vacuum

[Ian]

Hi all 
With reference to my original enquiry about using a domestic central heating 
pump
mainly for the stirring process, this is also assisted by vacuum.
Here you will find a schematic of how the system is laid out. nb ive made some 
refinements since this initial drg, nothing drastic.
http://www.hammaskeep.demon.co.uk/Reactor.jpg
Comments please.


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[biofuel] Heated fuel lines

[ianwade]

Does anyone know who makes fuel line heaters that can be used to heat fuel as 
it passes through pipes. The sort of thing you rap around pipes would 
suffice. But I need to keep them above 41 degrees c and more like 80 degrees 
as I am going to use tallow in an engine.
Jonathan


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Foggers

[David Reid]

Andrew,
 I dont think you can install a fogger (mister) in a diesel
vehicle. I think the only way you can mix water and diesel is with the use
of additives and a reasonably sophisticated mixer. Left to their own devices
they generally separate out. The inclusion of water generally means better
combustion and the emission of less contaminants, and this is why it is
normally done, and there is a lot of research and development going into it
around the world at present. What is the purpose of the pressure pump in
this case?
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:04 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Foggers


> I am working on installing a mister in my diesel Mercedes running on
> straight fat. Just looking for a suitable little pressure pump.
>
> Andrew (OZ)



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[biofuel] pumps and vacuum

[Ian]

Hi all 
With reference to my original enquiry about using a domestic central heating 
pump
mainly for the stirring process, this is also assisted by vacuum.
Here you will find a schematic of how the system is laid out. nb ive  made some 
refinements since this initial drg, nothing drastic.
http://www.hammaskeep.demon.co.uk/Reactor.jpg
Comments please.


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[biofuel] Palm oil for electricity in Malaysia

[PLChan]

A recent newspaper article in Malaysia quoted palm oil at a market price of
USD180/tonne. A government palm oil board buys it at USD191/tonne. It is
then resold to the national utility at USD184/tonne. Thus it is a straight
loss.

The additional losses come from the fact that apparently the fuel mix used
in the generators are at 42,000kJ per tonne compared to 40,000kJ per tonne
for the palm oil/fuel mixture.

There are also concerns that the palm oil mixture may be detrimental to the
generator mechanically.

All the above came from the local paper, "The New Straits Times" so don't
send me emails re the accuracies.

These numbers say that it is not feasible but it avoids a stockpile of palm
oil.

Perhaps the other way to look at it is that even coca cola costs more than
fresh water.  It's just the way that society places values on resources.

Ricky

- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] fogger 1st result frm malaysia


> Hello Gerry
>
> >Hi,
> >Seen your results. You are right that it doesn't improve the mileage.
> >In Singapore, I have driven in a Mitsubishi panel van retrofitted with
this
> >water fogger, 15 years back.
> >It was claimed that the fogger would improve the mileage and was being
> >evaluated.We would save a bundle with the fleet fleet of service vans.
> >Logic behind it was that water consists of H2 & O2. Therefore with the O2
&
> >H2 ,there would be cleaner fuel and complete combustion. Later I found
this
> >not to be true, as water can only be cracked into O2 & H2 at high
> >temperatures that would actually melt the engine.
> >We vary the amount that was injected when the engine was hot and drove it
> >sensibly (no hard acceleration!) trying to achieve higher mileage.
> >Sometimes in the morning , the engine would splutter due to the water
being
> >'injected'  into a cold engine,equilvalent to water in the tanks.
> >I hope the rest would stop trying the fogger for the engine and save
their
> >money & time.
> >Gerry.
>
> Many people are having results the opposite of yours. They are
> getting worthwhile results. Maybe you are not talking about the same
> thing? In any event, I think these tests should be encouraged, not
> discouraged.
>
> >PS
> >If any of you notice the price of crude palm oil is actually very
expensive
> >to be  processed for biodiesel, even though it is at rock bottom .
> >The crude can be processed into palm oil, olein & stearin oil.
> >It would be interesting to look at price of palm oil for  processing
> >biodiesel.
>
> Some details?
>
> Best wishes
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] hello

[Keith Addison]

>Anyone getting these messages? I keep sending them and they never
>turn up on the list.
>
>Andrew
>

Hi Andrew

Three messages received, including this one.

Best

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 


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Re: [biofuel] fogger 1st result frm malaysia

[Keith Addison]

Hello Gerry

>Hi,
>Seen your results. You are right that it doesn't improve the mileage.
>In Singapore, I have driven in a Mitsubishi panel van retrofitted with this
>water fogger, 15 years back.
>It was claimed that the fogger would improve the mileage and was being
>evaluated.We would save a bundle with the fleet fleet of service vans.
>Logic behind it was that water consists of H2 & O2. Therefore with the O2 &
>H2 ,there would be cleaner fuel and complete combustion. Later I found this
>not to be true, as water can only be cracked into O2 & H2 at high
>temperatures that would actually melt the engine.
>We vary the amount that was injected when the engine was hot and drove it
>sensibly (no hard acceleration!) trying to achieve higher mileage.
>Sometimes in the morning , the engine would splutter due to the water being
>'injected'  into a cold engine,equilvalent to water in the tanks.
>I hope the rest would stop trying the fogger for the engine and save their
>money & time.
>Gerry.

Many people are having results the opposite of yours. They are 
getting worthwhile results. Maybe you are not talking about the same 
thing? In any event, I think these tests should be encouraged, not 
discouraged.

>PS
>If any of you notice the price of crude palm oil is actually very expensive
>to be  processed for biodiesel, even though it is at rock bottom .
>The crude can be processed into palm oil, olein & stearin oil.
>It would be interesting to look at price of palm oil for  processing
>biodiesel.

Some details?

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] on 05/02/2001 02:18:49 AM
>
>Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>
>To:   biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group)
>Subject:  [biofuel] fogger 1st result frm malaysia
>
>
>
>
>hi again all...i just finish i tankfull of petrol and it doesn't seem
>to be different from the consumption without fogger. the only
>different are quiter engine sound and better performance at high rpm.
>i've drag the engine to 7000 rpm just now and hellthe rpm still
>willing to go some more. but i'm not going to do it, i need to go to
>work tomorrow:)..if anybody interested to try this method, ask
>dick :). my english is not good enough to make u understand. oh!
>dick, if u read this, and have other type of fogger (or any fuel
>saving method)that i should try, let me know. i'll test it out and
>let u know the result. i'm using a honda integra, 80s model using
>carburetor. see ya ...


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Re: [biofuel] Foggers, my Volvo, and a used diesel

[Keith Addison]

>Heyy! What exactly are foggers? I haven't heard anything specific
>about them besides the fact that they seem to raise gas mileage or
>something... I'd love to know, as I drive 70+ miles to school a day,
>use the turbo often in road warrior battles, and get about 20mpg. She
>(my Vol) is fuel-injected- is that a problem? Barring that, anybody
>got a diesel in 'ol Georgia they're wanting to sell? Can't make Bio-D
>without a car to use it, right? Thanks!
>
>James

Hello James

See:
Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel: Ron Novak's Do-It-Yourself Water Injection System
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me3.html

Try a search in the message archives for "Novak" or "fogger".
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/messages

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 


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Re: [biofuel] JIM Befuddling post

[Keith Addison]

>An explanation:
>My post was a response (included below) to
>someone who, in my opinion, was using the US gov'ment and the DEA in specific
>as scapegoats in his discussion of hemp's reluctance in becoming a new
>biofuel. I was aided in this conclusion by the post's lack of concrete
>detail, sources, or even a cursory objective view. Hell, my response may have
>been unfounded or spurious (or not), but I was just trying  to get a response
>as to why the information seemed a bit opinionated.
>
>-JIM

Strange way of going about it, dubbing it as "gossip and lies", and 
him as "weird", without any concrete details, sources, nor even a 
cursory objective view to support your own opinion, don't you think?

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/



>From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (jerry dycus)
>Reply-to:biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>To:biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>Hi Ian and All,
>--- ian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Yes there are THC free strains, (but the others are
> > best ;) )
> > ian
> I'll smoke to that;-)).
>But beyound that hemp grows so fast it crowds out
>any weeds quickly and it's a very light feeder, using
>little or no pesticide or fertilizer.
>The pounds of biomass /acre is hugh. Larger than
>anything else.
>Almost no labor either other than planting and
>harvesting. 90 gals of biodiesel and 800/1000 gals of
>methanol per crop and in Fla 4 to 5 crops a year. Hemp
>is hard to beat.
> It's a great fabric and rope that will not rot.
>As to why it's illegal in 1934 a machine was
>designed to seperate the fibers economicly but had the
>misfourtune to be at the same time as Dupont came out
>with rayon, nylon . Popular Machanics declared hemp
>the next billion dollar crop.
>He was worried the hemp would steal his markets
>that he gave J Randolf Hearst a bunch of Dupont stock
>so Hearst would put out a bunch of stories in his
>newspapers that hemp was a bad drug that only, racial
>slurs for blacks and Mexicans, do it and become crazy,
>ect.  
>   Then in 1937 their cronies in congress passed the
>law making it not a threat to Dupont anymore.
>So here we are and one of the best , least side
>effect medicines and the answer to our energy, farmer
>problems and we can't use it. It shows that
>politicians care more about posturing than helping our
>country.
>   George Washington and Thomas Jefferson raised and
>praised it , if it's good enough for them it's good
>enough for me.
>I'd like to sue the DEA for fraud, the lying scum.
>   jerry dycus
> > - Original Message -
> > From: Warren Rekow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 7:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: [biofuel]
> >
> >
> > > Richard said:
> > > >  1 acre of  hemp will prouduce   more paper,
> > building
> > material,clotfing,ETC
> > > >than 20 acres of trees.
> > >
> > > Do all hemp plants contain THC, or are there
> > varieties which do not
> > > contain this compound?
> > > --
> > > ...Warren Rekow
>
>
>__
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
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>Content-Typ

Re: [biofuel] glycerol

[Steve Spence]

I think you are on the right track. Keith, any thoughts on this? what do you 
do with your glyc's? I just buried the stuff, never tried composting.


>From: "Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>To: 
>Subject: [biofuel] glycerol
>Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 02:16:01 -0300
>
>1) i find that glycerol, after the excess alky evaporates, makes a passable
>soap. wonder if anybody in the list has tried filtering, neutralizing,
>coloring, and scenting it, for use as 'liquid soap' ? (i must try this
>someday !!)
>
>what would be the pros and cons ?
>
>tickell mentions turning glycerol into glycerin soap, by adding more naoh,
>etc, etc.  would a liquid form of the soap be easier than tickell's
>suggested 'hard soap' transformation ?
>
>glycerin soap is a premium soap, and i would imagine that a 'hand made'
>liquid version of it would also be a premium soap of sorts.
>
>2) read somewhere that glycerol can be used as a soil improver. can't
>remember exactly if that was as an additional nutrient, or as an additional
>carbon source (ie, organic content). if so, couldn't it  be mixed with an
>inert medium allowing for easy application ? what would happen if glycerol
>gets added to a compost pile, or to a methane biodigestor ? or mixed with
>chips and used as a sort of 'super mulch' ?
>
>3) will  glycerol disolve into another fuel/solvent, making the end product
>easier and safer to use as a substitute for heating fuel ?
>
>4) could glycerol be used as a gasoline/alcohol/dinodiesel additive, adding
>lubricity ?
>
>5) how innocuous is glycerol ? (neutralized and no free alky) could it be
>used as an intimate lubricant ? (:-D)
>
>6) what about floating wick glycerol candles ? sort of like the old tallow
>lamps ?
>
>7) is glycerol edible ? could it be mixed with starch, fermented, and
>distilled into a potent brew ? or mixed into animal fodder ? glycerol
>wheaties, anyone ?
>
>8) could glycerol be mixed with another tensioactive product, and made into
>a 'new generation biodegradable detergent' ? anybody try using it in the
>clotheswasher, or dishwasher (my wife would give me a full bobbit, so count
>me out...), either at 100 %, or mixed with regular gunk ?
>
>9) will red worms 'process' glycerol, turning it into a very saleable 'worm
>compost' ? (big market for this...)
>
>h..
>
>(nothing beats lateral thinking, methinks !!!)
>
>cheers, dick.
>

_
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[biofuel] "Conservation may be a virtue..."

[F. Marc de Piolenc]

> Well...you almost heard it here first.

>According to the second of our Commander in Thief King George II, Dick >Cheney 
>has
>proclaimed that "Conservation may be a virtue, but it is not sound energy 
>>policy."

>In an era where the social, economic and environmental cost of fossil and 
>>nuclear fuels
>is draining the life's blood of a planet's people, and where populations >are 
>ever more
>swaying towards the sane and sound practice of conservation, efficiency >and 
>alternative
>energies, it is difficult to imagine a statement and policy course that >could 
>be more
>criminal.

What he was saying is that energy policy that rests on conservation is a
dead end - and he's right. No matter how much one conserves a finite
resource, it will eventually be exhausted. Meanwhile, compulsory
"conservation" efforts may very well have frustrated the very endeavors
that might have provided a long term solution.

If you feel so strongly about this, why wait for the Government to
direct you to conserve? DO IT by all means, and let us get on with
finding solutions.

Marc de Piolenc
Iligan, Philippines


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Re: [biofuel] Foggers

[Keith Addison]

>If y'all can send me (or post) an "idjit proof" set of plans(yes I kinda
>prefer pictures , but detailed instructions will do as well :) I would
>consider adding one to my '99 dodge ram (318 CI gashog). I would also like
>further info of dangers associated with small errors (like Mr. Rabello's
>bent rod).
>
>"Fillerupwithknowhow"  :)
>-Tim Z


See:
Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel: Ron Novak's Do-It-Yourself Water Injection System
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me3.html

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 

>- Original Message -
>From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 5:27 PM
>Subject: [biofuel] Foggers
>
>
> > Before we lose track of it and so we can compare results how many people
>are trialling and are prepared to try this water fogger device of Ron Novaks
>that Dick Carlstein has had good success with? A list of people who are
>involved or interested seems to be as follows: Dick Carlstein, David Teal,
>Munirna, Dick Carmichael, Marc de Piolenc possibly, and myself. There must
>be others. Can you let us know who you are? Results from as many places and
>people as possible would be interesting and have more meaning.
> > B.r.,  David
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
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RE: [biofuel] Vapour Carburetion

[Monica & Gary Holton]

-Original Message-
From: David Reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 May 2001 10:12 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] Vapour Carburetion

An interesting link:

http://atl.terrashare.com/Energy/EnergyContents.htm



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Re: [biofuel] Farmers seek boost from veggie fuel

[Ralph Chamberlain]

David thanks for your response. I've been checking into the used oil market and 
its at an all time glut. It seems that the mad cow disease has put a hamper on 
feed market and now the collection companies are charging the restaurants to 
pick up their used oils. This could mean a break in the price to produce 
biodiesel in the US.

I've checked the US gov't documents on production costs of biodiesel and they 
state that is costs around $0.67 per gallon to produce diesel compared to $1.00 
per gallon to produce biodiesel. The end cost of a 20% blend is approx. .736? 
The gov't indicators have stated that the price of diesel will be $2.00 per 
gallon in the next few months.

I want to know if anyone out there has comparative cost projections to produce 
biodiesel. If my calculations are correct can we start to look at full scale 
production of renewable energy source?

Ralph Chamberlain


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[biofuel] Re: Foggers

[evoz]

I am working on installing a mister in my diesel Mercedes running on 
straight fat. Just looking for a suitable little pressure pump.

Andrew (OZ)

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "David  Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Before we lose track of it and so we can compare results how many 
people are trialling and are prepared to try this water fogger device 
of Ron Novaks that Dick Carlstein has had good success with? A list 
of people who are involved or interested seems to be as follows: Dick 
Carlstein, David Teal, Munirna, Dick Carmichael, Marc de Piolenc 
possibly, and myself. There must be others. Can you let us know who 
you are? Results from as many places and people as possible would be 
interesting and have more meaning.
> B.r.,  David
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] Moderation + topics

[Keith Addison]

>Dear folks,
>
>who is in charge of moderate and govern the topic
>boundaries of this biodiesel group
>
>I have to read a lot of intrascendent material every
>day. (Intrascendent=bulk= trash)
>
>Please lets get organized ourselves
>
>regards,
>
>Paul

Dear Paul

I'm the list owner.

It's not just a biodiesel group, it's a biofuels group.

I don't think you "have to read" anything you don't want to read.

I presume you're referring to Todd's rant about King George? Todd's 
welcome to the occasional rant, as is anyone, and in fact I didn't 
see it as off-topic. If it'd developed, or degenerated, into a 
slanging match between pro- and con-Bush factions, eg, I'd've called 
a halt to that, but it didn't. Many on the list wouldn't agree with 
your opinion that it's "trash", which, I suppose, is based on the 
fact that it wasn't strictly about biodiesel? One list comment:

>Hey,  I  really  got  a charge  out  of  the  "King George
>thing"  I`m  in  absolute  agreement !!!

Somebody else recently demanded an end to the "techno-talk and 
theorizing", and I'm not about to entertain that suggestion either.

Todd has meanwhile replied to you, and I support that reply. If you 
want to know the list view of what's on- and off-topic, please read 
Message #4056 of Apr 19, 2001 by NBT - E. Beggs, "Re: Dead Zone", or 
#4209 of Apr 22, 2001 by Appal Energy, "Re: unsubscribe", or #4300 of 
Apr 24, 2001 by Keith Addison, "Re: [biofuel] Wet Blanket was Sea 
shanty".

This last one says: "Part of our function here should be to provide 
the context for biofuels use. It's not just a matter of 'self 
sufficiency and cost savings regarding energy', important though they 
are. There was a big movement towards renewable energy in the US and 
elsewhere in the early 80s, not for the first time, but it died when 
the fuel prices dropped. Now the biofuels movement is burgeoning 
worldwide, and I'm sure it won't die this time, no matter what the 
fuel prices do, exactly because of the much wider context beyond 
saving a few bucks on fuel. There's much more to it than that, and 
more to it than the technical aspects too, the how-to's and so on. 
Why-to is a major issue, and very connected with all the other 
environmental/political issues. So the topic is and should be a broad 
one."

There is fairly regular discussion on the list about this, or rather 
arguments between those who want a narrow definition and those who 
want full-context. The scope has always been broadly defined, and on 
that basis the list has become the biggest and fastest-growing list 
on its topic on the Internet. As I said, you don't have to read 
anything. Try the delete button, for instance.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 


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[biofuel] hello

[evoz]

Anyone getting these messages? I keep sending them and they never 
turn up on the list.

Andrew


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Re: [biofuel]

[steve spence]

there are varieties that contain less than the limit needed to meet the
criteria for "drug". However, our DEA is unable to tell the 2 kinds apart in
the field, so they ban anything resembling the plant.


Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
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Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
we borrow it from our children.
--

- Original Message -
From: "Warren Rekow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel]


> Richard said:
> >  1 acre of  hemp will prouduce   more paper, building
material,clotfing,ETC
> >than 20 acres of trees.
>
> Do all hemp plants contain THC, or are there varieties which do not
> contain this compound?
> --
> ...Warren Rekow
>

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[biofuel] Fogger data collection

[evoz]

David,
A very sensible approach. If we use the combined experience of the 
list users to complie some real facts and figures then a lot of the 
questions being asked about their performance under various vehicle 
and environmental conditions will be answered.
I am working on installing a mister in my diesel Mercedes which runs 
on straight fat. Just looking for a suitable pressure pump. Was 
interested to hear of these air pumps used in late model emmision 
control systems.
Will keep you informed.

Andrew (OZ)


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[biofuel] pumps

[tom wiggins]

Tom wrirs; what kind of pump should I use to get Wendys waste grease? 
Would some kind of mud pump work for this?

I need to be able to pump all the crap that is in the tank.

Tom Wiggins
Ks

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Re: [biofuel] glycerin

[Appal Energy]

> I  want  to  know  about
> the  vacuum/ heat  extraction  method  in  more  detail,
> so  if  you  have  some  good  info  I  would  appreciate
> your  help.  I`m  not  sure  what  VOC  output  is
> so  please  fill  me  in  on  that.
.

David,

Vacuum is not necessary for evaporating and distilling the methanol, either
the residual in the biodiesel before washing or the residual in the
glycerin.

A closed system is, however, to prevent the escape of the toxic and
flammable fumes.

It consists of nothing more than a manner to heat the fluid above the
boiling point of the alcohol, and a water cooled condenser to recover the
vapor in liquid form.

Essentially it is the same process for evaporation and condensing glycerin,
except that vacuum is used so that not so much heat energy is required. This
is where pressure rated tanks and the like enter into play. Just imagine a
more industrial image than what is in the following paragraph.

You could probably evaporate the alcohol out of both the biodiesel and the
glycerin using a fifty five gallon closed head drum, with the 3/4" bung
plugged, the 2" bung piped into the condenser, the drum wrapped in R-19
insulation, all sitting on a double burner electric hotplate, or some other
non-open-flame heat source.

I would separate the biodiesel from the glycerin first and then evaporate
each medium separately - perhaps a separate drum for both to prevent
glycerin contamination of the fuel/

You will also need to remove the glycerin from the drum while still warm or
reheat it before removal, as it gets rather thick.

Todd
Appal Energy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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[biofuel] alternate foggers

[Alan S. Petrillo]

"Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 4) if tapping into a turbo, the fogger inlet goes to the turbo outlet, and
> the fogger outlet goes to the intake manifold. you get the best of both
> worlds.

Would the pressure differential between the compressor outlet and the
intake manifold be enough to run the fogger?  Particularly under part
load conditions, when the turbo isn't active.  (most of the time)  

How much pressure does it take to run the fogger anyway?  

In my experience, when you're dealing with turbocharged engines
_everything_ gets more difficult by an order of magnitude.   

-- 
Aviation is more than a hobby.  It is more than a job.  It is more than
a career.  Aviation is a way of life.
A second language for the world:  www.esperanto.org
Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste.  www.distributed.net

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[biofuel] minimol glycerol

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc. - E. Beggs]

How to minimize glycerin:

Run SRO for the majority of the time.
Use biodiesel for startup and shutdown only.
Result = a lot less glycerin to deal with and lower cost for methanol, other
supplies, processors,  no Viton, etc.

Oh, and drive less.

Ed B.




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[biofuel] Vapour Carburetion

[David Reid]

Put the message below on last night to see if anyone would pick up on it but
as of yet no one.
Ray Covey inventor of the Covey Low Temp.Vaporizer more or less said that
some of his inspiration and ideas came from Charles Nelson Pogue inventor of
the Pogue Vaporizer  in the mid 1930s who mysteriously disappeared after
newspaper stories on his invention caused oil company stocks to drop. These
stories covered tests conducted by Ford Motor Company of Canada and others
in which a 1935 Ford V8 fitted with a Pogue Vaporizer got over 200 mpg. The
same vaporizers are reported to have been used by US Tank Corps in North
Africa on long range Sherman Tanks, jeeps, and other vehicles. The Sherman
was definitely a short range tank. These reports are supported by men who
served in the US Tank Corps who have stated that some type of  secret vapor
carburetor, marked property of a big US oil company, was installed in their
tanks and greatly increased operational range. Field Marshall Rommel is also
reported to have written in his writings "If it had not been for America's
long range tanks, the outcome of the desert war would have been different".
In the past Ford Canada have denied any knowledge of these tests but there
seems to be enough documented evidence from others who conducted the tests
as well to more or less prove that the test vehicle did this sort of
mileage. Most of the tests conducted involved running the vehicle out of gas
and then seeing how far they could drive it on a pint, all of which exceeded
25 miles, and 2 that involved a gallon and exceeded 200mpg.
I believe this warrants further investigation.
The following Pogue Patent Nos. are probably worth investigating: 1,750,354,
3/11/30;  1,938,497,  12/5/33;  1,997,497  4/9/35;  2,026,798,  1/7/36
Wether all the details are there and anyone would turn up all the
information after all this time is  doubtful but it is perhaps worth trying.
Some of the Covey results achieved in the mid 80s were not too far below the
Pogue ones. something like 144mpg  with a heavy 400 CID Chrysler
B.r.,  David

> Which brings me to another point. Has anyone out there ever had anything
to
> do with Ray Covey's Vapour Carburetion Conversion Systems? Do they know
much
> about them and did they ever really work properly?  Believe with the Mark
5
> system he managed to obtain something like  72 mpg  (US gal = 3.785Litres)
> with a V8. This equates to 19 miles per litre or just over 30 km per
litre.
> Perhaps it is time for people to look at this aspect again. I am sure with
> the rapid developments in modern computers a lot of these old ideas might
> enjoy a new lease of life with vast improvements easily obtainable in the
> right hands.
> B.r.,  David




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Re: [biofuel] fogger 1st result frm malaysia

[David Reid]

Munirna,
 Thanks for details. Dont be in a hurry to provide results or
otherwise any savings are eaten up, and nobody is going to send you any
money either to cover your costs unfortunately. Dont be in a hurry to over
rev the motor again either. While they may stand up to it for a short time a
certain amount of damage is occuring from the moment you put your foot down.
Unless you have the best synthetic oil there is. I think even Mikaa Haakinen
would tell you the same after the Spanish Grand Prix the other day and even
then he would contest the best synthetic assumption.
B.r.,  David


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Re: [biofuel] glycerin

[david e cruse]

Hi  Ed,

You  may  be  right  about  the  soap !
Only  problem  is  there  are  so  many  people
making  "handmade/ hand crafted soap"  and
all  the  other  craft  things  that  it  makes  it
difficult  to  find  a  good  market !
Anyway  thanks  for  the  thought.

David  Cruse
- Original Message -
From: "NBT - E. Beggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerin


> Soap production sounds  a little more promising.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
>
> >
> > > David  Cruse
> > ...
> > David,
> >
> > Here's the skinny on glycerin.
> >
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Foggers

[Tim Zarbo]

If y'all can send me (or post) an "idjit proof" set of plans(yes I kinda
prefer pictures , but detailed instructions will do as well :) I would
consider adding one to my '99 dodge ram (318 CI gashog). I would also like
further info of dangers associated with small errors (like Mr. Rabello's
bent rod).

"Fillerupwithknowhow"  :)
-Tim Z
- Original Message -
From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 5:27 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Foggers


> Before we lose track of it and so we can compare results how many people
are trialling and are prepared to try this water fogger device of Ron Novaks
that Dick Carlstein has had good success with? A list of people who are
involved or interested seems to be as follows: Dick Carlstein, David Teal,
Munirna, Dick Carmichael, Marc de Piolenc possibly, and myself. There must
be others. Can you let us know who you are? Results from as many places and
people as possible would be interesting and have more meaning.
> B.r.,  David
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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>
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>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/2001


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[biofuel] Re: Database

[NBT - E. Beggs]

A more general point:

Anybody up for creating a forms-or Java driven (I am guessing here not
knowing much about web database design) of results from the various things
discussed herein? Saw one for WVO on a German site the other day. Seemed
like a good idea.

Nicely categorized, summary info, contacts, experiences, dates, mileage,
RBI's...you know...stats.

Ed B.


- Original Message -
From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 2:27 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Foggers


> Before we lose track of it and so we can compare results how many people
are trialling and are prepared to try this water fogger device of Ron Novaks
that Dick Carlstein has had good success with?
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] glycerin

[David Reid]

Hi David,
   Can dig out a couple of good book titles from the library if
you give me time.
B.r.,  David


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Re: [biofuel] fogger 1st result frm malaysia

[leegerry]

Hi,
Seen your results. You are right that it doesn't improve the mileage.
In Singapore, I have driven in a Mitsubishi panel van retrofitted with this
water fogger, 15 years back.
It was claimed that the fogger would improve the mileage and was being
evaluated.We would save a bundle with the fleet fleet of service vans.
Logic behind it was that water consists of H2 & O2. Therefore with the O2 &
H2 ,there would be cleaner fuel and complete combustion. Later I found this
not to be true, as water can only be cracked into O2 & H2 at high
temperatures that would actually melt the engine.
We vary the amount that was injected when the engine was hot and drove it
sensibly (no hard acceleration!) trying to achieve higher mileage.
Sometimes in the morning , the engine would splutter due to the water being
'injected'  into a cold engine,equilvalent to water in the tanks.
I hope the rest would stop trying the fogger for the engine and save their
money & time.
Gerry.

PS
If any of you notice the price of crude palm oil is actually very expensive
to be  processed for biodiesel, even though it is at rock bottom .
The crude can be processed into palm oil, olein & stearin oil.
It would be interesting to look at price of palm oil for  processing
biodiesel.







[EMAIL PROTECTED] on 05/02/2001 02:18:49 AM

Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com

To:   biofuel@yahoogroups.com
cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group)
Subject:  [biofuel] fogger 1st result frm malaysia




hi again all...i just finish i tankfull of petrol and it doesn't seem
to be different from the consumption without fogger. the only
different are quiter engine sound and better performance at high rpm.
i've drag the engine to 7000 rpm just now and hellthe rpm still
willing to go some more. but i'm not going to do it, i need to go to
work tomorrow:)..if anybody interested to try this method, ask
dick :). my english is not good enough to make u understand. oh!
dick, if u read this, and have other type of fogger (or any fuel
saving method)that i should try, let me know. i'll test it out and
let u know the result. i'm using a honda integra, 80s model using
carburetor. see ya ...


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Re: [biofuel] Foggers

[Appal Energy]

> Before we lose track of it and so we can compare results how many people
are trialling and are prepared to try this water fogger device of Ron Novaks
that Dick Carlstein has had good success with?


David,

Wish I could contribute. Running diesel here and wrapped up beyond my gills
in bio-d.

Todd
Appal Energy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [biofuel] back to basics

[David Reid]

Thanks Steve,
 I sometimes dont make the most obvious connections when
it comes to abbreviations.
B.r., David

> Internal Combustion Engine? Take a gander at an old hot rod magazine from
> the early 80's by Henry (Smokey) Yunick from Daytona FL. Had an
interesting
> "Expander Cycle" engine he worked up. 200 hp, 60mpg, on a 2.2 liter Iron
> Duke 4 cylinder.



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Re: [biofuel] Back to basics

[jgrove5540]

Like I said before a lack of atmospheric pressure is (vacuum) which will work 
the fogger? Does anyone know if biodiesel needs to be washed if mixed 50/50 
with regular diesel fuel, and if you wash it can isopropyl alc. be used 
instead boiling the fuel to remove final water content? Thanks


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[biofuel] Re: Farmers seek boost from veggie fuel

[InsightTroy]

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Ralph Chamberlain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My question is this, does biodiesel costs three times as much to 
produce? (will it drive up the cost of diesel and aviation fuel)
>>>

No.  I can get biodiesel for $2 a gallon... only about 30 cents more 
than dino-diesel.





>Doesn't the emissions from a 20% biodiesel/diesel mixture reduce 
>pollution?(and hopefully meet the new standards set for year 2007 EPA 
>regs). Finally what is the subsidized ethanol pricing?


Yes, because biodiesel emissions are re-absorbed by plants.  In fact, 
the EPA accepts biodiesel as an "alternative fuel" credit for trucking 
companies.

Go here for more info: http://www.biodiesel.org

Troy


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Re: [biofuel] glycerin

[david e cruse]

Hi  David,

Thanks  for  the  info.  I  talked  to  the  General
Manager  of  Ocean Air Environmental ( formerly
NOPEC ) in  Florida  and  he  told  me  that  they
have  a  difficult  time  with  glycerin  also.  But  it`s
still  on  my  list  of  things  to  accomplish !

David  Cruse
- Original Message -
From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerin


> David,
>   Unfortunately the only way to purify it properly and get an
> absolutely pure product is with distillation. Commercial processors use
> other screening and filtering processes such as fullers earth which gets
rid
> of some of the gunk but to get it really pure they still need
distillation.
> Unfortunately this type of process really needs to be done on a commercial
> scale to make it truly viable.
> B.r.,  David
>
> > Does  anyone  know  a  process  that  can  be
> > used  to  purify  the  glycerin  produced  in  the
> > biodiesel  reaction  into  a  pure  or  high  grade
> > glycerol ?  High  grade  glycerol  has  a  much
> > better  market  value  than  the  crude ( 80-88% )
> > glycerin  you  get  with  standard  biodiesel  recipes.
> > Any  help  on  this  would  be  greatly  appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David  Cruse
> > Atlanta, Georgia  metro  area
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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>
>


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[biofuel] Foggers, my Volvo, and a used diesel

[laserjuice]

Heyy! What exactly are foggers? I haven't heard anything specific 
about them besides the fact that they seem to raise gas mileage or 
something... I'd love to know, as I drive 70+ miles to school a day, 
use the turbo often in road warrior battles, and get about 20mpg. She 
(my Vol) is fuel-injected- is that a problem? Barring that, anybody 
got a diesel in 'ol Georgia they're wanting to sell? Can't make Bio-D 
without a car to use it, right? Thanks!

James


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Re: [biofuel] glycerin

[david e cruse]

Hi  Todd,

Thanks  for  the  info.  You`re  probably  right  about
the  glycerin,  but  I`m  still  going  to  keep  it  on
my  list  of  things  to  accomplish.  You  are  absolutely
right  about  the  methanol.  I  want  to  know  about
the  vacuum/ heat  extraction  method  in  more  detail,
so  if  you  have  some  good  info  I  would  appreciate
your  help.  I`m  not  sure  what  VOC  output  is
so  please  fill  me  in  on  that.

Hey,  I  really  got  a  charge  out  of  the  "King George
thing"  I`m  in  absolute  agreement !!!

Thanks,
David  Cruse
- Original Message -
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerin


> > Does  anyone  know  a  process  that  can  be
> > used  to  purify  the  glycerin  produced  in  the
> > biodiesel  reaction  into  a  pure  or  high  grade
> > glycerol ?  High  grade  glycerol  has  a  much
> > better  market  value  than  the  crude ( 80-88% )
> > glycerin  you  get  with  standard  biodiesel  recipes.
>
> > David  Cruse
> ...
> David,
>
> Here's the skinny on glycerin.
>
> To purify you will need to evaporate and distill it. The boiling point is
> above 500 Fahrenheit (read "boatloads of heat energy").
>
> To reduce the heat input, you can evaporate and distill under partial
> vacuum. You're talking pressure rated, insulated tanks, a serious boiler,
a
> major energy cost and uneconomical until you have a volume of "x" cubic
feet
> of crude to distill.
>
> And that's when you're doing it safely but on the cheap.
>
> Even then you must meet food or cosmetic grade compliance for both the
> facility and the product in order to attain the higher value of pure
> glycerin. This means initial cost to meet the standard, continual and
> rigorous testing to insure product integrity, insurance costs for
> distributing food or cosmetic grade products and costs almost ad
infinitum.
>
> Until you start producing several thousand gallons of biodiesel each week,
> the idea of refining glycerin is best left on paper or perhaps a pretty
> intense experiment. This truth really sucks, but no one can change the
> physical properties of glycerin.
>
> You could also experiment with glycerin as a furnace fuel or furnace fuel
> additive. Incomplete combustion generates Acrolein, however. It is
extremely
> toxic and dangerous. One should be up on their combustion mechanics and
> chemistry before trying this.
>
> Or, you could toy with the conversion of glycerin to ethanol. This would
be
> in the presence of the neutralized catalyst if you cannot determine a way
to
> remove it before fermentation. This may or may not affect the yeastie
> beasties, depending upon their nature.
>
> In any event, you should be recovering the alcohol from the glycerin layer
> for economic and environmental purposes. That may not seem like much, but
it
> is a start and gets you more familiar with evaporation/condensing
techniques
> if you're not already familiar. It also reduces your VOC output if the
> alcohol of choice was anything but ethanol.
>
> The working theory is that biodiesel manufacture is intended to be green.
> This is one theory that can be practical in reality if all avenues are
> addressed
>
> Todd
> Appal Energy
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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Re: [biofuel] JIM Befuddling post

[zh24mij]

An explanation:
My post was a response (included below) to 
someone who, in my opinion, was using the US gov'ment and the DEA in specific 
as scapegoats in his discussion of hemp's reluctance in becoming a new 
biofuel. I was aided in this conclusion by the post's lack of concrete 
detail, sources, or even a cursory objective view. Hell, my response may have 
been unfounded or spurious (or not), but I was just trying  to get a response 
as to why the information seemed a bit opinionated.

-JIM



< wrote:
> Yes there are THC free strains, (but the others are
> best ;) )
> ian
Ê ÊÊ I'll smoke to that;-)).
Ê Ê But beyound that hemp grows so fast it crowds out
any weeds quickly and it's a very light feeder, using
little or no pesticide or fertilizer. 
Ê Ê The pounds of biomass /acre is hugh. Larger than
anything else. 
Ê Ê Almost no labor either other than planting and
harvesting. 90 gals of biodiesel and 800/1000 gals of
methanol per crop and in Fla 4 to 5 crops a year. Hemp
is hard to beat. 
Ê ÊÊ It's a great fabric and rope that will not rot.
Ê Ê As to why it's illegal in 1934 a machine was
designed to seperate the fibers economicly but had the
misfourtune to be at the same time as Dupont came out
with rayon, nylon . Popular Machanics declared hemp
the next billion dollar crop.
Ê Ê He was worried the hemp would steal his markets
that he gave J Randolf Hearst a bunch of Dupont stock
so Hearst would put out a bunch of stories in his
newspapers that hemp was a bad drug that only, racial
slurs for blacks and Mexicans, do it and become crazy,
ect.ÊÊ 
ÊÊ Then in 1937 their cronies in congress passed the
law making it not a threat to Dupont anymore.
Ê Ê So here we are and one of the best , least side
effect medicines and the answer to our energy, farmer
problems and we can't use it. It shows that
politicians care more about posturing than helping our
country.
ÊÊ George Washington and Thomas Jefferson raised and
praised it , if it's good enough for them it's good
enough for me.
Ê Ê I'd like to sue the DEA for fraud, the lying scum.
Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ jerry dycus
> - Original Message -
> From: Warren Rekow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 7:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel]
> 
> 
> > Richard said:
> > >Ê 1 acre ofÊ hemp will prouduceÊÊ more paper,
> building
> material,clotfing,ETC
> > >than 20 acres of trees.
> >
> > Do all hemp plants contain THC, or are there
> varieties which do not
> > contain this compound?
> > --
> > ...Warren Rekow


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Re: [biofuel] alcohol as a fuel

[steve spence]

ok, I was wrong. seems to be oil in them seeds, and starch in the rest.
should be able to make biodiesel AND ethanol from the pumpkin, then throw
the remains into the methane digester.


Steve Spence
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- Original Message -
From: "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] alcohol as a fuel


> not much oil available, so biodiesel is out. how much starch/sugar is
> available? I don't know the answer to that, but I've not heard of anyone
> using pumpkins, so ethanol is prolly not an answer. that leaves methane.
> That will work!
>
>
> Steve Spence
> Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
>
> Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
> we borrow it from our children.
> --
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 11:12 PM
> Subject: [biofuel] alcohol as a fuel
>
>
> > there are two questions that i have:
> > the first one is. can pumpkins be used to make a biofuel? And if so
> > does someone have a recipe?
> > The other is. Is it cost effective to make your own personal fuel
> > providing you have the mechanical ability to construct the equipement?
> > If anyone has the the answer to any of these questions please let me
> > know. thanks in advance.
> >  scott
> >
> >
>

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Re: [biofuel] Moderation + topics

[Appal Energy]

> Dear folks,
>
> who is in charge of moderate and govern the topic
> boundaries of this biodiesel group
>
> I have to read a lot of intrascendent material every
> day. (Intrascendent=bulk= trash)
>
> Please lets get organized ourselves
>
> regards,
>
> Paul
..

Paul,

It's "bio-fuels," and I believe largely all topics affecting the growth in
use of bio-fuels and the ramifications of same, not just bio-diesel.

The list and "moderator" also largely permit those topics which lend to the
reduction of fossil and other energy consumption, to an "indefinite" point.

Please, as only being involved in the politics of energy for over two
decades, could you prefer off list your definition of "trash?"

Todd
Appal Energy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [biofuel] Farmers seek boost from veggie fuel

[Appal Energy]

Ralph,

Answers to your questions are laced within your text:

> I just read an article in the Sunday paper distributed by Associated Press
about the lobbying efforts of farmers to mandate the use of biodiesel as an
additive in diesel fuel.

I believe you are referring to this article?

"Farmers Want Veggie Fuel Mandated, Subsidized"
http://www.soyatech.com/bluebook/news/viewarticle.ldml?article=20010501-9

> Unfortunately, the press is somewhat bad. It states that biodiesel costs
three times as much to produced as diesel. Is that a right amount? It also
states that that biodiesel is not a cleaner energy than natural gas??? and
that it will "slow the switch" to natural gas???

 It depends who is attempt to gouge whom.
 No references to biodiesel in this article are for "true biodiesel."
They all apply to bastardized blends of fossil diesel and bio-diesel and are
erroneously misrepresented as fact for "100% biodiesel."
 Natural gas is non-renewable. No one wants to issue any comment as to
elevated gas prices in the future, the economic and environmental cost of
changing an entire infrastructure or what will become the substitute fuel of
choice for natural gas when supplies begin to dwindle or become too costly.

***Did we not just go through this drill last winter? Why does no
one wish to pay attention? Or is it just selective memory
loss?*

Neither is anyone making comment as to the carbon debt from combusted
natural gas, opposed to carbon neutral "true biodiesel," or carbon storage
when deriving biodiesel from tree oils.

> The gang is all there to fight. It seems from the article that truckers,
railroads, environmentalists and the airlines have teamed up to fight
legislation against its mandatory use.

 They can quibble, whimper, whine and throw tantrums, but they cannot
stop its use or production at the agricultural manufacturing level, nor its
inevitable incursion on scale into the balance of the market. After a few
more plants are in place, all these "activists" (read "special interests")
railing against biodiesel will be investing their loose change in new
biodiesel production and industries that consume biodiesel.

> My question is this, does biodiesel costs three times as much to produce?
(will it drive up the cost of diesel and aviation fuel) Doesn't the
emissions from a 20% biodiesel/diesel mixture reduce pollution?(and
hopefully meet the new standards set for year 2007 EPA regs). Finally what
is the subsidized ethanol pricing?

 NO. This high a cost is being attributed primarily due to the present
market distribution system (read "middle men and logistics"), which ups the
end cost to consumers considerably. At a manufacturing profit of $0.50 a
gallon, an absolutely phenomenal value, biodiesel from virgin soy oil would
be no more than $2.48 a gallon with all state and federal road taxes
included and no tax credits. This revolves around a trade price of $0.15 a
pound for the oil.

 Produced on economies of scale throughout the marketplace, a realistic
"present day" cost for road taxed 100% biodiesel would be less than $2.00 a
gallon US.

 When farmers coop in small numbers to produce biodiesel on a small
economy of scale, approximately 1,500 gallons daily and utilize the lower
costs of feed from the grain milled on site, reduced cost of transportation
of grain to terminals, reduced capital equipment costs for transport, resale
of crude glycerin to refiners, fueling the facility using biomass or
biofuels for boilers and winter heat (no lack of this on the farm), the cost
of biodiesel can easily be in the realm of $1.10 a gallon for offroad,
agricultural and heating use.

This is ~$0.18 a gallon less than what farmers presently are paying for
untaxed off-road fossil diesel. The "equation" does not take into
consideration the opportunity to utilize ethanol in the manufacture of
biodiesel or the potential to refine the glycerin "on site" or in conjuction
with adjacent cooperatives and derive the high market value for food grade
glycerin. Both would further enhance a farmer's profit margin per bushel.

 YES. Even B-20 is cleaner than fossil diesel.

Again, what you are seeing with the mis- and dis-information are special
interests who see the potential for their exclusion from the distribution
chain or others who initially believe that they have something to lose as a
result of a broadened infusion of biodiesel into the market.

Even the Sierra Club is mis-informing the public with their statements
that biodiesel is only slightly cleaner than fossil diesel. Unfortunately,
Sierrra is either grossly mis-informed, opts not to do their research or are
intent upon representing the environmental benefits of B-20 as being
duplicit with B-100 - 100% "true biodiesel" in order to expedite the large
scale incorporation of natural gas as a transportation fuel.

(It's no wonder David Brower recently rolled into his grave. He ne

Re: [biofuel] Farmers seek boost from veggie fuel

[david e cruse]

Ralph,

There  is  a  political  base  for  soybeans  and
other  vegetable  products  that  can  be  used  to  make
biodiesel  because of  the  " farm  lobby ".  Farmers  get
money  or "subsidies"  for  crops  they  can`t  grow
and  bring  to  market.  That  is  to  say,  if  you  are  a
farmer  and  have  enough  land  to  grow  an  extremely
large  amount  of  something, but  can`t  grow  it  because
there  wouldn`t  a  market  for  it.  Then  you  are  paid
by  the  Fed. Gov.  a  subsidy ( money ) to  grow a
smaller  amount  of  that  crop  instead  of  growing  the
larger  amount  that  you  could  have  grown, but  would
have  lost  money  if  you  had.  The  farmers  here  in  this  country  see
biodiesel  as  a  market  for  those
crops ( soybeans ) ,  and  our  Government  is  all
for  it  because  that  means  less  subsidies  to  pay
out.  Same  thing  for  Ethanol ( corn )  farmers,
they  want  money  for  corn  they  can`t  grow  and
sell  because  now  soybeans  are  the  " darlings "
of  the  moment.  Read  University  of  Idaho,
they  are  behind  the  big  push  for  soybean biodiesel!
Iowa  is  where  the  ethanol  boys  are.  No  offense
meant  to  any  of  you  "green  guys"  from  those
two  states.  Waste  vegetable  oil  just  doesn`t  have
a  political  base.  Farmers  can`t  grow  it  so  the
Feds  just  don`t  see  any  reason  to  be  in  favor
of  it.  I  mean  no  offense  to  the  farmers  either
because  they  have  to  earn  a  living  also  and
they  have  their  lives  tied  up  in  the  land  and
without  them  we  would  be  chaos  in  no  time  flat!
It`s  a  bad  situation  for  everyone !!
I  still  prefer  WVO  because  otherwise  it  winds
up  as  just  another  pollutant!!!  Hope  I  didn`t  make
a  mess  of  that  attempt  at  an  answer.

David  Cruse
- Original Message -
From: "Ralph Chamberlain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:35 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Farmers seek boost from veggie fuel


> I just read an article in the Sunday paper distributed by Associated Press
about the lobbying efforts of farmers to mandate the use of biodiesel as an
additive in diesel fuel.
>
> Unfortunately, the press is somewhat bad. It states that biodiesel costs
three times as much to produced as diesel. Is that a right amount? It also
states that that biodiesel is not a cleaner energy than natural gas??? and
that it will "slow the switch" to natural gas???
>
> The gang is all there to fight. It seems from the article that truckers,
railroads, environmentalists and the airlines have teamed up to fight
legislation against its mandatory use.
>
> My question is this, does biodiesel costs three times as much to produce?
(will it drive up the cost of diesel and aviation fuel) Doesn't the
emissions from a 20% biodiesel/diesel mixture reduce pollution?(and
hopefully meet the new standards set for year 2007 EPA regs). Finally what
is the subsidized ethanol pricing?
>
> Ralph Chamberlain
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Re: TRUE??, Anyone doing it?

[steve spence]

how about corn or wheat pellets for fuel?


Steve Spence
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- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 1:18 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: TRUE??, Anyone doing it?


> > extraction operation stand-alone profitable, and also enable the
> > profitable production of biodiesel at prices comparable to with
> > crude-oil-diesel.
> 
> 
> Wow, just found a soybean extractor with 5 silos on 3 acres for a
> very very decent price. Also has a pellitizer for making feed and
> pellet fire wood.
> 
> Anyone want in on the deal?, I can only spend 4 days a week on it.
> 
> 

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Re: [biofuel] biod mixer pumps

[ian]

Thanks for the advice Todd, Dana.
Back to the drawing board!
Ian
- Original Message -
From: Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] biod mixer pumps


> > Is it safe to use a domestic central heating pump for biod mixing?
> > Thanks
> > Ian
> .
>
> Ian,
>
> "A central heating pump" sounds somewhat generic as a description.
Agitation
> is the preferred method of mixing, even up to large 1,000 gallon batches.
> Normally at this level there is partial pump assist to get thorough
mixing.
>
> There remains the concern of flammability of alcohol vapors and the
> construction of the pump. You will also need to take into consideration
the
> viscosity of the original oil and final products and byproducts. Biodiesel
> is not that much less dense than vegetable oil.
>
> A submersible solvent pump used in an automotive parts cleaning stand
would
> probably be adequate for biodiesel. You will want something that pumps 500
> gph to overcome the viscosity and time concerns.
>
> The pump will draw some amps, so you should probably just stick with
> physical agitation. But it is darned handy for moving fluids on a small
100
> gallon scale during washing and separation phases.
>
> Todd
> Appal Energy
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
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>


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[biofuel] Foggers

[David Reid]

Before we lose track of it and so we can compare results how many people are 
trialling and are prepared to try this water fogger device of Ron Novaks that 
Dick Carlstein has had good success with? A list of people who are involved or 
interested seems to be as follows: Dick Carlstein, David Teal, Munirna, Dick 
Carmichael, Marc de Piolenc possibly, and myself. There must be others. Can you 
let us know who you are? Results from as many places and people as possible 
would be interesting and have more meaning.
B.r.,  David


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[biofuel] fogger 1st result frm malaysia

[munirna_in]

hi again all...i just finish i tankfull of petrol and it doesn't seem 
to be different from the consumption without fogger. the only 
different are quiter engine sound and better performance at high rpm. 
i've drag the engine to 7000 rpm just now and hellthe rpm still 
willing to go some more. but i'm not going to do it, i need to go to 
work tomorrow:)..if anybody interested to try this method, ask 
dick :). my english is not good enough to make u understand. oh! 
dick, if u read this, and have other type of fogger (or any fuel 
saving method)that i should try, let me know. i'll test it out and 
let u know the result. i'm using a honda integra, 80s model using 
carburetor. see ya ...


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Re: [biofuel] glycerol

[Keith Addison]

Hi Dick

Interesting thoughts. First, glycerine's definitely edible, once 
processed to meet food-grade standards. Most of us probably eat it 
every day, it's very widely used.

I think red worms would have trouble with raw glycerine, but it's 
definitely compostable - not on its own of course, you'd have to add 
it to your normal green/brown, wet/dry mix to get the right ratios 
(about 70% moisture, C:N ratio 25:1 to 35:1). And red worms would 
happily process the resulting compost. See:
http://journeytoforever.org/compost.html
http://journeytoforever.org/compost_worm.html

It might also be possible just to soak it up with something "brown" - 
sawdust (not treated!), shredded corrugated cardboard, cocopeat - and 
feed it to red worms without pre-composting. Might need a bit of time 
to mature before the worms can deal with it. That's on my list of 
to-do's. I'll do some small-scale tests in the next week or so, let 
you know.

Something to remember with red worms is that they don't actually eat 
all this stuff: they consume it, yes, but what they derive their 
nourishment and growth from is the decay micro-organisms - they're 
the ones that do the real eating. Thus you can produce a good yield 
of high-grade protein (the worms themselves, they double in weight 
every six weeks) as well as castings with quite a respectable N 
content from something like shredded newspaper (wet), which is devoid 
of N and protein. The increase comes from the micro-organisms (and 
fresh air).

>1) i find that glycerol, after the excess alky evaporates, makes a passable
>soap. wonder if anybody in the list has tried filtering, neutralizing,
>coloring, and scenting it, for use as 'liquid soap' ? (i must try this
>someday !!)
>
>what would be the pros and cons ?

I've used it as liquid soap, mainly for real dirty jobs. It would 
take some processing to turn it into something you'd want in your 
kitchen/bathroom/laundry. It's the WVO smell that gets to me, mainly. 
But it works well.

Well worth trying to process it further in this direction I think. If 
you check the Web for soap links you'll quickly find that there's a 
good market for handmade soap, exactly because of the glycerine 
content (commercial soapmakers remove the glyc for separate sale). 
But again glyc from WVO biodiesel production is a long way from these 
very high quality handmade soaps. On one of the soapmaking lists 
recently someone in the US was trying to get rid of 10,000 gals of 
glyc from his biodiesel operation. Didn't seem to be many takers.

>tickell mentions turning glycerol into glycerin soap, by adding more naoh,
>etc, etc.  would a liquid form of the soap be easier than tickell's
>suggested 'hard soap' transformation ?
>
>glycerin soap is a premium soap, and i would imagine that a 'hand made'
>liquid version of it would also be a premium soap of sorts.
>
>2) read somewhere that glycerol can be used as a soil improver. can't
>remember exactly if that was as an additional nutrient, or as an additional
>carbon source (ie, organic content). if so, couldn't it  be mixed with an
>inert medium allowing for easy application ? what would happen if glycerol
>gets added to a compost pile, or to a methane biodigestor ? or mixed with
>chips and used as a sort of 'super mulch' ?

I can't imagine how it would improve the soil other than via 
composting. Can you see it benefitting mycorrhizae, for instance? 
Could always be wrong, but I doubt it.

>3) will  glycerol disolve into another fuel/solvent, making the end product
>easier and safer to use as a substitute for heating fuel ?

What Todd said about Acrolein production is a caution. It seems clean 
(ie, hot enough?) combustion is far from a matter of course.

>4) could glycerol be used as a gasoline/alcohol/dinodiesel additive, adding
>lubricity ?
>
>5) how innocuous is glycerol ? (neutralized and no free alky) could it be
>used as an intimate lubricant ? (:-D)

It's already a component of a love-potion! (NitroG)

>6) what about floating wick glycerol candles ? sort of like the old tallow
>lamps ?
>
>7) is glycerol edible ? could it be mixed with starch, fermented, and
>distilled into a potent brew ? or mixed into animal fodder ? glycerol
>wheaties, anyone ?

I'd like to know more about whether it could be fermented and 
distilled for ethanol. Again Todd mentioned this. That would make a 
nice clean cycle of the process, if only we could solve the problem 
of dehydrating the ethanol to make ethyl esters.

>8) could glycerol be mixed with another tensioactive product, and made into
>a 'new generation biodegradable detergent' ? anybody try using it in the
>clotheswasher, or dishwasher (my wife would give me a full bobbit, so count
>me out...), either at 100 %, or mixed with regular gunk ?

Same problems as with the toilet soap. But I reckon this is a good 
line for further exploration.

>9) will red worms 'process' glycerol, turning it into a very saleable 'worm
>compost' ? (big market for this...)

See above 

Re: [biofuel] back to basics

[Steve Spence]

Internal Combustion Engine? Take a gander at an old hot rod magazine from 
the early 80's by Henry (Smokey) Yunick from Daytona FL. Had an interesting 
"Expander Cycle" engine he worked up. 200 hp, 60mpg, on a 2.2 liter Iron 
Duke 4 cylinder.


>From: "David  Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>To: 
>Subject: Re: [biofuel] back to basics
>Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 19:29:49 +1200
>
>Hi Tim,
> Sorry I cant help and must plead ignorance. What is an ICE? 
>Also
>re seals I am sure there is someone far more knowledgeable than me who has
>had hands on experience with the Cummins.
>If you are trying to get more mpg I suggest you research some of the 
>patents
>that have been filed over the last 50 years in relation to high mileage etc
>especially those that have been bought up or are held by oil companies. 
>When
>I was a child there was heaps of information, some somewhat limited, other
>stuff that was far more explicit in popular American and other magazines
>such as Popular Mecanics, Scientific American, and even the good old 
>Readers
>Digest.
>Somewhere I have a list of Patents held by people such as the oil 
>companies.
>I am sure if a number of people did searches they would be amazed with what
>they come up with. One things for sure there is not that many things out
>there that have not been done before in some alternative fashion.
>
> > My real question is have you or anyone else here on the list, seen or
>heard
> > of a water injection system used on an ICE?(I have an 1999 dodge ram 
>that
> > gets about 12-14 MPG(16 on a REALLY good tank on the hiway with the 
>cruise
> > control on! ;) I was considering trying to get a bit more 'go' from the
> > 'magic potion of motion' --considering it's a daily driver, and I don't
>see
> > being able to afford the Cummins powered version anytime soon.
> >  If/when I DO get hands on the Cummins version, do you think there'll be
>any
> > problems switching right to the bioD? or would I have to refit any seals
>or
> > lines to withstand the fuel?<~~anyone?
>
>Cant comment on generators in the States either. Am aware that there is a
>brand called Onan which a lot of people use there but know nothing about
>size or any other details. Have a search for them on the net using a
>multiple search engine and you should have some luck. Also have a look on
>Steve Spences webpages as I am sure he has got some info on electricity
>there as well.
>B.r.,  David
> >
> > In the meantime, I am looking for 1) a generator(8 to 65 KW) that would
> > eventually power my home, and be run by 2) either a bioD from a small
> > truck/car, or ethanol either of which I plan to brew here at home in 
>Sunny
> > Florida(Tampa--HIYA Jerry D:)  <~~ Anybody gets any leads on these lil
> > toys--I'd SUUURE appreciate knowing where to look!
>
>

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[biofuel] Moderation + topics

[Paul Stefan Hattle]

Dear folks,

who is in charge of moderate and govern the topic
boundaries of this biodiesel group

I have to read a lot of intrascendent material every
day. (Intrascendent=bulk= trash)

Please lets get organized ourselves

regards,

Paul

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[biofuel] Farmers seek boost from veggie fuel

[Ralph Chamberlain]

I just read an article in the Sunday paper distributed by Associated Press 
about the lobbying efforts of farmers to mandate the use of biodiesel as an 
additive in diesel fuel.

Unfortunately, the press is somewhat bad. It states that biodiesel costs three 
times as much to produced as diesel. Is that a right amount? It also states 
that that biodiesel is not a cleaner energy than natural gas??? and that it 
will "slow the switch" to natural gas???

The gang is all there to fight. It seems from the article that truckers, 
railroads, environmentalists and the airlines have teamed up to fight 
legislation against its mandatory use.

My question is this, does biodiesel costs three times as much to produce? (will 
it drive up the cost of diesel and aviation fuel) Doesn't the emissions from a 
20% biodiesel/diesel mixture reduce pollution?(and hopefully meet the new 
standards set for year 2007 EPA regs). Finally what is the subsidized ethanol 
pricing?

Ralph Chamberlain
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [biofuel] alternate foggers

[Benteaches]

In a message dated 5/1/01 8:47:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< 1) hot exhaust air going through the airstone, which is the heart of the
 fogger, will dissolve the airstone.

Not to be a nitpicker here, but  having been a hillbilly engineer all my 
life, let me throw in my 2 cents here...
Hot exhaust will not be going through the fogger untill the fluid is gone. On 
the systems I have cobbled together I use an old carb jet as a poor mans 
mister; seems to work fine.
 
 <<2) using exhaust gases as a source of pressure for the fogger implies
 drilling, etc, and also a 'hard' line (metal) connection to the fogger, due
 to high temps. might also have to re-route hoses/wiring because of this.>>

I've had good luck tapping the exhaust near the muffler and running either 
high temp silicone hose or surgical tubing, depending on which I can scrounge.
Havent had a problem with melting so far
 
 <<3) if fogger benefits are wanted for all of the engine's torque curve, the
 easiest solution is possibly to fit an air pump to the engine, and use this
 for pressure. the air pumps i have in mind are the ones fitted to cars for
 emission control purposes, easily obtainable in salvage yards.  if the car
 you're installing the fogger in already has one of this, just tap into the
 pump's outlet line, and run that into the fogger inlet. fogger outlet goes
 to intake manifold.>>

An elegant soultion! late model cars have a 12 volt air pump which would be 
easily adaptable.
 
 Again, I just thought I'd throw in the observations and experiences of a $0 
hobbyist.

Ben Hazel

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Re: [biofuel] Re: back to basics

[robert luis rabello]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>
> A very difficult way to learn about hydraulics, You can compress air,
> not liquids. and compressed liquids will bend metal. probably used up
> all the fuel savings for the lifetime of that moter, eh?
>

Certainly!  Also, I had to endure the considerable embarrassment this event
created in my family circle. . .  (And the endless lectures from a mechanic
friend who had warned me "against fooling around building hot rod engines.)

The worst part of it all, was that I knew better and should have been more
careful!  All the talk on this list of foggers and misters makes me wonder
if someone else will be as foolish as I!

robert luis rabello


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Re: [biofuel] biod mixer pumps

[Appal Energy]

> Is it safe to use a domestic central heating pump for biod mixing?
> Thanks
> Ian
.

Ian,

"A central heating pump" sounds somewhat generic as a description. Agitation
is the preferred method of mixing, even up to large 1,000 gallon batches.
Normally at this level there is partial pump assist to get thorough mixing.

There remains the concern of flammability of alcohol vapors and the
construction of the pump. You will also need to take into consideration the
viscosity of the original oil and final products and byproducts. Biodiesel
is not that much less dense than vegetable oil.

A submersible solvent pump used in an automotive parts cleaning stand would
probably be adequate for biodiesel. You will want something that pumps 500
gph to overcome the viscosity and time concerns.

The pump will draw some amps, so you should probably just stick with
physical agitation. But it is darned handy for moving fluids on a small 100
gallon scale during washing and separation phases.

Todd
Appal Energy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [biofuel] biod mixer pumps

[Dana Linscott]

Ian,

It may be safe but I don't think it will be effective.
The domestic central heating pumps I have seen are
very low pressure/low volume and I think what you want
is more vigorous/powerful pump. 

Group...feel free to correct me.

Have you considered using vaccuum to move BD from
vessel to vessel and through filters? It simplefies
the process and a vaccum pump can be easily made from
a salvaged refrigerator compressor, of which there are
lots for free. This also simplefies the washing
process as well as distillation recovery of the
alcohol.

Not my idea...can't claim credit.

By the way...whoever suggested using the same filters
used by restaunts for WVO filtering...thanks. They
work great and are inexpensive.

Dana Linscott

--- Ian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is it safe to use a domestic central heating pump
> for biod mixing?
> Thanks 
> Ian
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 


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