Parallel Products was Re: [biofuel] Container Plants
In the early 1980s a company called Parallel Products Inc of Dixon, California, was running a mobile alcohol fuel plant, on a truck with a trailer. No idea what became of them. .. Keith, Parallel Products runs several alcohol plants. The one in Louisville, KY uses waste from the beverage industry - everything from corn syrups to unwanted Budweiser from the local brewery. Seems to me that if most of America's population got a whiff of what real beer was like, Parallel would be receiving a lot more useless feedstock from the Bud plant. (Oh OH!!!. Here come the Anheuser Busch employees charging with spiked clubs!!!) Okay, I'll admit. Anheuser does make one or two brews that taste sufficient and meet the shallow wallet problem day before pay day. I guess you just have to have made your own mash, discovered some of that wild Belgian Abbey yeast that yields banana esters or created your own Cinnamon Pumpkin Ale a time or two to understand. That's probably what would be fitting use of every greeting room in any bio-d plant anyone ever creates - a beer brewing supply center - just one more form of independence. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Composting Toilets was Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
Composting toilets resolve water issues and enhance soils. As for paper, better recycled cardboard boxes or renewable annuals. In a perfect world nothing but lumber should be coming directly from trees. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Bad Roads Mobile Plants was Re: [biofuel] Container Plants
Dear Keith, Todd, et. al., Before I went to India for a look, I would have agreed with you. However, the roads are so bad that it took me five hours to travel a distance of 110 k (68 miles) on one of the official Indian highways in a Jeep going as fast as it could go, or as fast as the driver dared. I took this trip from the city to a farm. The farm is located at about 25 miles from the closest market to sell the farm's produce. This 25 mile trip to market took two hours by Jeep and stretched out to five hours when the trip is made with a tractor pulling a trolley of grain. Therefore, given the condition of the roads, and the apparent lack of desire on the part of anyone to improve them, I think it might work better to bring the processing plant to the farm, rather than the farm produce to the plant. I also think it may work better in that economy to have multiple small plants rather than one large plant for a given area. Derek, A good bit of a concern, I would say. It's good to see that India's government is taking such great pains to help its population slow down and appreciate nature's beauty. Sorry for the thoughtlessness stemming from isolationist US mentality. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] fluid bed reactors/steam engines
Hi David, I do not currently have any drawings and my free time is quite limited for the moment, but I will try to get some basic schematic drawn up ASAP. Please be patient. There was a research company out of Menlo Park California burning up grant money on fluid bed reactor research about 15-20 years ago. They may have been known as Fluid Power...but my memory is not what it used to be. Dana --- David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Dana, Got any drawings? Have quickly scanned what you have written and the idea looks as if it might have a fair bit of merit. Any other reference material as well? B.r., David __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Parallel Products was Re: [biofuel] Container Plants
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess you just have to have made your own mash, discovered some of that wild Belgian Abbey yeast that yields banana esters or created your own Cinnamon Pumpkin Ale a time or two to understand. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cinnamon Pumpkin Ale? Come on now Todd. From all your posts I thought you were a rather sophisticated man with sophisticated tastes, and here you go talking about brewing ridiculous novelty beer. You aren't one of those people that ruin a perfectly good cup of coffee by adding a sugary flavored syrup to it are you? I agree with you whole heartedly about Bud and the wonders of brewing your own, but in my humble opinion beer should taste like beer, and dessert should taste a thanksgiving pie. I make a killer steam beer to rival Anchor, as well as a pumkin pie to die for; I just don't enjoy them together, call me unadventurous I guess. -Andrew Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Parallel Products was Re: [biofuel] Container Plants
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess you just have to have made your own mash, discovered some of that wild Belgian Abbey yeast that yields banana esters or created your own Cinnamon Pumpkin Ale a time or two to understand. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cinnamon Pumpkin Ale? Come on now Todd. From all your posts I thought you were a rather sophisticated man with sophisticated tastes, and here you go talking about brewing ridiculous novelty beer. Gots ta du somptin' wit all dose punkins. You aren't one of those people that ruin a perfectly good cup of coffee by adding a sugary flavored syrup to it are you? Nope. Blacker than road tar be me choosin'. It tain't good juice unless yur jumpin' outta yur skin. I agree with you whole heartedly about Bud and the wonders of brewing your own, but in my humble opinion beer should taste like beer, and dessert should taste a thanksgiving pie. When in Germany, do as the Germans do. When elsewherewellit's the buzz that counts. Ya just otter enjoy gettin' there and takin' a difernt road once in a while. I make a killer steam beer to rival Anchor, Man after me own heart! Der blacker der better! as well as a pumkin pie to die for; I just don't enjoy them together, call me unadventurous I guess. Yup. Bland as grits, I reckon. Got some cinnamon if need be. -Andrew Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the difference
It turns out that I have located a source for good quantities of used hydrogenated vegetable oil. Before I enter into any negotiations I wonder whether this type of oil will prove difficult to convert into biodiesal. Any thoughts on this? .. Mike, Go for it!!! Your final biodiesel product will have a greater energy value than a biodiesel derived from the same oil before it was hydrogenated. Don't offer them money outright, if you can avoid it, especially if they are presently paying to have it removed. If you can afford it, tell 'em you'll remove it for free. That should make you their friend for life. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Compost energy - was Re: Composting Toilets
Composting toilets resolve water issues and enhance soils. That's exactly right, that's what we have to do. I prefer restore to enhance though - the stuff goes back to where it came from, according to the natural cycle. Flush toilets break that cycle, like many other things we do. That broken cycle is right at the root of so many of our problems, or even all of them, I think sometimes. There's an energy aspect to this. Compost is a seriously neglected source of energy. It's easy to rig a composting toilet arrangement so that it's contributing to a thermophilic (hot) compost heap rather than a mesophilic process (warm, takes longer). The heat generated is considerable. Often when I've mentioned this I've been told: But it's uncontrollable, which always baffles me, I don't think it's uncontrollable. I think Jerry mentioned this once, using compost to heat water. I reckon it should be a standard arrangement. They say you need bulk to make good hot compost, but it's not really true. It is probably true that if you don't have bulk you need skill. But it's an easily learnt skill. We have a smallish composting unit outside, about 16 cub ft (plus a bunch of worm bins about the place), but I've also been fiddling with a small unit on the balcony, a 14x14x14 wooden box - less than 1.5 cub ft internal. Right now there's about 1 cub ft of composting stuff in it, and the temperature is 58 deg C (136 deg F). Our hot water tap only does 56, which is more than enough. The box will stay at that temp for at least a week. With two of them in series (the usual way with composters) you'd have a constant supply of heat, easy enough to harness and taking up very little space. It's free, very productive (compost is GOOD stuff!), easy to keep it fed if you have a small garden and a kitchen, and you're keeping your organic wastes out of the waste stream, where they truly don't belong, and putting them where they do belong, in a considerably enhanced form. Aleks's acid-base 2-stage process (the Foolproof process) needs less heat than that (55 deg C). Such small boxes won't do for humanure, but they're just fine for anything else. As for paper, better recycled cardboard boxes or renewable annuals. Yep. In a perfect world nothing but lumber should be coming directly from trees. Well, I see what you mean, but a good forest can produce a great variety of products (including energy) in large quantities and still be there, nice place to take a walk in, full of wildlife and stuff. Chopping it down is a really dumb thing to do. Especially to make paper out of it. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Composting Toilets was Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
Composting toilets resolve water issues and enhance soils. That's exactly right. That's what we have to do. I prefer the restore to enhance though - the stuff goes back to where it came from, according to the natural cycle. Flush toilets break that cycle, like many other things we do. That broken cycle is right at the root of so many of our problems, or even all of them, I think sometimes. As for paper, better recycled cardboard boxes or renewable annuals. Most paper used to come from old rags and stuff. Seems the problem is that the mills aren't geared to handle anything but wood, though there are plenty of other (better) options, and they're under little or no real pressure to change. In a perfect world nothing but lumber should be coming directly from trees. Well, a good forest can produce a great variety of products in large quantities (including energy), and still remain a good forest, nice place for a walk, full of wildlife and stuff. No need at all to cut the thing down, that's a really dumb thing to do. Especially to turn it into paper. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Information requires
Hello Barry Do you know of BAA? The Biodiesel Association of Australia has been established to promote and build a viable and ecologically sustainable biodiesel industry in Australia. Will offer supplies of biodiesel for registered members. FAQ, what-is, news press, standards, documents, getting it, making it, events, and more. http://biodiesel.vtrekker.com/ Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Hanns, I am not sure if you are referring to me or Steve Spence. If it's me then I live on the northern beaches of Sydney. Biodiesel is not an issue here at all. I have heard virtually nothing about it locally in the press. About a month ago the Newcastle City Council, north of Sydney, said they were going to run their garbage trucks on biodiesel. The cost savings were mooted but not the environmental advantages. I don't know what its like where you are. regards Barryt - Original Message - From: Hanns B. Wetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 8:49 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Information requires Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] methanol or methane CH4
Hi Joseph Very nice, clear explanation, thankyou! Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ John, Methane (CH4) is not gaseous methanol. Methanol is oxygenated methane re: a hydroxyl group (OH) replaces one of the hydrogen atoms in the molecule. (CH3OH) This is how it works for all the alcohols. Add the OH to ethane, and get ethanol; to propane, and get propanol; butane, butanol, and so on down the line. The location of the OH group on the molecule determines the isomer of the alcohol. For example, every one, I'm sure, knows propanol as rubbing alcohol or iso-propanol. The 'iso' shows where on the molecule the OH group is located. Methanol is a liquid at normal temps. Methane requires cryogenic temperatures to liquify. Thus when a vehicle uses CNG (compressed natural gas) as a fuel, it is stored in high pressure cylinders on the vehicle. Methanol can be stored in a conventioal fuel tank. However it is corrosive and leaches the lead and or tin out of the solder joints in the tank. It also does nasty things to the rubber components of the fuel system. Emmission components of methanol exhaust are rather nasty as well. However, methanol can be used in a fuel cell in place of hydrogen to generate electricity. Now if we can only get a small inexpensive fuel cell for vehicles... I hope this answered your question without getting too technical. hello. my name is john amory, victoria, au. my question is- is methane CH4 the gas version of methanol. If so, can methane be liquified back to methanol. thank you. ja thank you. Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance
Hi Derek Keith, Not to belittle your concern about water, its importance, and the likelihood of wars being fought over it, but I still tend to feel that energy in one form or another is of utmost importance. Well, yes, but water is already a crisis, and energy isn't, really - only the rather gross way it gets wasted, and the side-effects of that, might be a crisis. Okay, IS a crisis. But not one that's killing people. Or only very slowly and indirectly. So far. The trouble is that many, or even most, of the places where there are severe water-shortage problems are poor - Pakistan, Mexico, the Sahel, and so on and on. Most of Pakistan's 141.5 million people don't have access to potable water. These countries don't have a lot of energy to spare, nor a lot of technological capacity either. Or at least not where it's needed. That is not easily changed. It's not just me that says the next wars will be over water, many people are saying so. The UN says so. So does the World Bank. A report published on March 22 to coincide with World Water Day warned that two out of every three people will face water shortages by 2025. It predicted that poor countries would suffer on a massive scale. This would create 'water refugees' - millions of people forced to leave their homes in search of clean water. There are already hundreds of thousands of water refugees in Afghanistan, for instance, their plight exacerbated by the civil war. I don't think there are ready energy solutions to these problems. To these problems, yes, maybe, if there's the will. Even the US is talking of water shortages now: Florida, Low on Drinking Water... At a time when nearly every major city in Texas is desperate for more water to meet runaway population growth... Newfoundland plans to sell lake water to the United States... Australians are using 65 percent more water today than they did in the 1980s. The Australian Water Resources Assessment 2000 found that 26 percent of surface water management areas are approaching or beyond sustainable extraction limits and that 34 percent of groundwater management units are approaching or beyond sustainable extraction limits. I don't think this is much of a solution: World Bank and multinational corporations seeking to privatize world's water supply. Monsanto sees the growing crisis as a business opportunity. Monsanto, the genetically modified food giant, drew up plans to make billions of dollars out of the world's water crisis, confidential company documents reveal. (The Independent) From Africa to Asia and Australia, from Europe to the Middle East and the Americas, too many people depend on too little -- and increasingly limited -- water. Despite Herculean engineering schemes constructed to water deserts and to store and deliver water where it would otherwise not be available, demand for water will almost surely continue to outstrip supply unless we dramatically alter our behavior. (Water: The Fate of Our Most Precious Resource, Marq de Villiers.) Alter our behaviour... Last year Bill Gates went through 4.7 million gallons of water -- nearly 60 times the consumption of a typical US homeowner. His water bill was $24,828. Cheap, eh? So that puts US average annual household consumption at 78,000 gallons. 35 tons. Nearly three tons a month. How much of that goes down the toilet? I currently live in an environment where life is highly dependent upon technology and energy. This has led me to appreciate that man can probably live just about anywhere as long as he has the energy to bring his life support along and to keep it running. He can practically make water as long as he has the energy to do it. About 4 billion people don't have the energy to do it. Man CAN live just about anywhere, except at the Poles. Bushmen and Aborigines can live where there's no surface water at all. But they're not greedy and they don't waste anything. My case in point. I currently live in Saudi Arabia. Life in the past was mostly nocturnal and by a few camel herders. Now, thanks to technology and relatively cheap energy, life is fairly normal here. Of course, it has its price. My house has two humongous air-con units that run constantly in the summer when the temperature outside is at 130 F and more. For water, the compound has a deep well that brings up this stuff that only someone with a good imagination might call water. However, after running it through a reverse osmosis plant it rivals most of the stuff one might get out of the faucet in the States or Europe. Saudi Arabia is the world's largest producer of desalinated water. Basically, the main product of the petroleum fields is petroleum for export. They have this byproduct called natural gas that used to be just burned off (!). Now they are using it to run their electrical generator plants, to their way of thinking, getting something for nothing. The electrical plants have been designed as co-gen plants, and as I
RE: [biofuel] What's the difference
Todd, Thats the whole thing. Nobody wants to remove it. In this country, used cooking oil is maybe reprocessed and sold to the lower income groups. ( I know, there should be a law ) Anyway, these guys won't accept used hydrogenated oil -- too foreign to them. I feel like I'm in the butter!! Now, just to setup a reliable production. Mike -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:49 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] What's the difference It turns out that I have located a source for good quantities of used hydrogenated vegetable oil. Before I enter into any negotiations I wonder whether this type of oil will prove difficult to convert into biodiesal. Any thoughts on this? .. Mike, Go for it!!! Your final biodiesel product will have a greater energy value than a biodiesel derived from the same oil before it was hydrogenated. Don't offer them money outright, if you can avoid it, especially if they are presently paying to have it removed. If you can afford it, tell 'em you'll remove it for free. That should make you their friend for life. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Composting Toilets was Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
Er, sorry! Odd double post - how the hell did I do that? :-( Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Composting toilets resolve water issues and enhance soils. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Yeh Hi Todd. It has been dragged up from a few weeks old thread. I'm installing another smaller tank in an annexed room close to the boiler. This i'll keep topped with biod. Its reasonably warm. Whilst on this subject whats the minimum temp that problems arise? Ian - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? Missed the original post on this thread. If the question is as stated in the subject line, the answer is absolutely yes. Some precautions must be taken to deal with cold weather mechanics such as clouding and gelling. Other than that, the only other problem is the sludge buildup on the old fuel oil tank will start to come loose, as the bio-d is a superb solvent. Just be aware that filters will need to be replaced with greater frequency for a year or two, unless the tank is cleaned prior to introducing bio-d. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Container Plants
Keith, Todd, et al, While mobile plants may not be applicable to the States and even there I am doubtful I certainly believe and am convinced in many places in Asia (certainly India for one) that a mobile plant would be a very good idea principally for the following good reasons: 1) the first is the quality of the roads and difficulty of getting product to market. 2) the second is that it makes more sense sometimes to produce the product where it is going to be used rather than sending it to market and then having to get the finished product returned. 3) the third is that it cuts out the middleman. 4) the fourth is that if being sent to market and then returned a certain % of the fuel produced is being consumed in transportation and hence higher production costs. Also higher inefficiencies built into production costs. 5) the fifth is that the people who produce the raw material and generally do the hard part generally get the least out of the deal. eg. the campesinos who pick coffee generally get 20c kg, the farmer gets 50c, and yet consider how much you pay for a cup of coffee at any good western country city cafe (note 140 cups of espresso coffee to a kg of roasted coffee). The same is true of farming generally. Using a mobile plant can leave the benefits in the producers hands rather than some great multi national who most of the time are top heavy, inefficient, and darn greedy. 6) the sixth is that the producers of the raw materials can combine together in the locality the material is grown to produce greater efficiency and lower their production costs. 7) the seventh is that a mobile plant can quite often serve for a time in a transitory phase while an industry is growing. I could go on for a while listing a number of reasons I am sure but I believe the reasons above are more than enough. Some of these also apply to the States and especially certain localities. While a lot of multi nationals might or might try to convince you otherwise those at the coalface generally know otherwise. In my lifetime I have seen more good businesses sunk by accountants and banks than by incompetance on the behalf of those who actually run the business. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Container Plants Hi Todd I agree, I can't see it - well, not for the likes of us. Nor for farmers, coops, local communities. It's corporate stuff I guess. Keith, Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance
Hello all Just joined the group a day or so ago. Am semi retired former aerospacer. Have been interested in alternative energy for over 25 years. Ham, KC7THL, and read a bit. Live in North America, central Montana to be more precise. The post below regarding potable water is worse than you know. 70% of drinking water in US is undrinkable in my estimation. Chemicals, hormones, drugs and fertilizer to name a few. Many taps produce a head on the glass due to soap residue. I have looked at solar stills and have come to the conclusion only cement, glass, butyl and neoprene, and painted steel are reasonably permanent construction. Efficiency is low and in the North freezing stops operation. I thought a flat plate powered multistage might perform better. Imagine a series of n shaped containers. They are in an insulated box. Source water goes in left leg of n. insulation in between the 2 legs. Good themal contact to next n and ech one in turn. Allowing a delta T of 15-20 degrees per n the same BTU transports 3 times as much if 3 n deep. Heat one end of stack and cool the other. Needs some thought re cleaning. *The next comment is re fuels.* I am told the acid hydrolysis is a reaction where you recover your chemicals except for a bit of makeup. Opens up a lot more options for fuel. If anyone has hands on with this sort of thing I would like to hear their comments and critique of the website. http://www.arkenol.com/index.html#top Specifically I want to know about the Concentrated Acid Hydrolysis methodology they describe at http://www.arkenol.com/tech01.html websites/businesses that are trying to create non-petroleum besed fuels would be a good database to construct. All the best Kirk -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 11:11 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance Hi Derek Keith, Not to belittle your concern about water, its importance, and the likelihood of wars being fought over it, but I still tend to feel that energy in one form or another is of utmost importance. Well, yes, but water is already a crisis, and energy isn't, really - only the rather gross way it gets wasted, and the side-effects of that, might be a crisis. Okay, IS a crisis. But not one that's killing people. Or only very slowly and indirectly. So far. The trouble is that many, or even most, of the places where there are severe water-shortage problems are poor - Pakistan, Mexico, the Sahel, and so on and on. Most of Pakistan's 141.5 million people don't have access to potable water. These countries don't have a lot of energy to spare, nor a lot of technological capacity either. Or at least not where it's needed. That is not easily changed. It's not just me that says the next wars will be over water, many people are saying so. The UN says so. So does the World Bank. A report published on March 22 to coincide with World Water Day warned that two out of every three people will face water shortages by 2025. It predicted that poor countries would suffer on a massive scale. This would create 'water refugees' - millions of people forced to leave their homes in search of clean water. There are already hundreds of thousands of water refugees in Afghanistan, for instance, their plight exacerbated by the civil war. I don't think there are ready energy solutions to these problems. To these problems, yes, maybe, if there's the will. Even the US is talking of water shortages now: Florida, Low on Drinking Water... At a time when nearly every major city in Texas is desperate for more water to meet runaway population growth... Newfoundland plans to sell lake water to the United States... Australians are using 65 percent more water today than they did in the 1980s. The Australian Water Resources Assessment 2000 found that 26 percent of surface water management areas are approaching or beyond sustainable extraction limits and that 34 percent of groundwater management units are approaching or beyond sustainable extraction limits. I don't think this is much of a solution: World Bank and multinational corporations seeking to privatize world's water supply. Monsanto sees the growing crisis as a business opportunity. Monsanto, the genetically modified food giant, drew up plans to make billions of dollars out of the world's water crisis, confidential company documents reveal. (The Independent) From Africa to Asia and Australia, from Europe to the Middle East and the Americas, too many people depend on too little -- and increasingly limited -- water. Despite Herculean engineering schemes constructed to water deserts and to store and deliver water where it would otherwise not be available, demand for water will almost surely continue to outstrip supply unless we dramatically alter our behavior. (Water: The Fate of Our Most Precious Resource, Marq de Villiers.) Alter our behaviour... Last year Bill Gates went through 4.7 million gallons
Re: [biofuel] fluid bed reactors/steam engines
Hi Dana, Thankyou, that would be most appreciated. I know very little about fluid bed setups and it is something I always meant and mean to research but never quite get round to. I know they are used in things like foundries and some of the best coffee roasters in the world use fluid bed technology but still know very little about the technology. Information would be appreciated when you get time. Note when you get time. Have been trying to decide wether you are male or female as I thought Dana was a female name but not having come across it before dont know. Perhaps its a name like Leslie or Adrian that can apply to either sex. Look forward to hearing from you in due course. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] fluid bed reactors/steam engines Hi David, I do not currently have any drawings and my free time is quite limited for the moment, but I will try to get some basic schematic drawn up ASAP. Please be patient. There was a research company out of Menlo Park California burning up grant money on fluid bed reactor research about 15-20 years ago. They may have been known as Fluid Power...but my memory is not what it used to be. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Hi Steve, Sounds interesting. Do you mean lpg (liquid petroleum gas) or low pressure? B.r., David - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? i have plans for a oil/gas multifuel burner I'll be posting soon. has a replaceable (cheap) jet assembly depending on fuel, and is made from a lp tank. Steve Spence Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Todd, This is where the by-pass filters I handle would come in very useful. B.r., David If the question is as stated in the subject line, the answer is absolutely yes. Some precautions must be taken to deal with cold weather mechanics such as clouding and gelling. Other than that, the only other problem is the sludge buildup on the old fuel oil tank will start to come loose, as the bio-d is a superb solvent. Just be aware that filters will need to be replaced with greater frequency for a year or two, unless the tank is cleaned prior to introducing bio-d. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Bio-D
There are a few guys out here in KS starting to experiment with our first batches of biodiesel. We're looking for some additional information on using ethanol rather than methanol for the transesterification (one guy owns a nice still)--does this complicate the process? Is there some good information about it someone could refer us to? Thanks! Matt Cantrell Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance
This is off-topic so I'll apologize in advance and take all further discussion off-list, but water filtration is not strictly a mechanical process. Plants are very good at filtering for toxins and could be your post solar still filter. Ionizing the water pre-still or uv filtration could help cut scaling and bacteria buildup. If your using tap water your de-chlorination will probably happen in the still. I would probably inject a little chlorine bleach into the system occasionally to flush it and kill excessive bacteria buildup or a flexible wire w/a stiff nylon brush like used from cleaning gun barrels could be snaked through the solar still to aid in removing excessive bacteria. Although you could probably find organisms that live off that bacteria and/or provide food for the flora downstream. I'm not a plant expert but I have seen some nice hydroponic setups that cleaned water to beyond any levels I've seen on a strictly mechanical system. [Completly off-grid.] From there depending on how stringent your standards are you can run it through a insert micron level gravity fed charcoal filter and voila potable water. This is not new technology as it was part of the biodome project. I have also seen a grey water (shower and sink water) recycling plant in Mexico. Comlpletly gravity fed complete w/solar still and used to irrigate lawns. The flora is one of the final stage of the filtering process before the water hits the aquifer. At which point it contains less toxins than the rain that falls in Mexico. I have pictures and probably the hard facts in my files somewhere. The problem is they are in Spanish and Yo no habla espanol. Alta-vista doesnt do scientific terms. So now for the big tie-in. I know this isnt exactly bio-fuel for the car. But it is biolfuel for nature from waste. Reclaiming grey water is a great start for irrigating flora and ultimatly replenishing the aquifers. Its like liquid compost. Why waste tap water on a lawn when we have plenty of grey waste water? On another note I find that less industrialized countries are more open to alternative energies then are more industrialized ones. Industry with the support of the government is shifting the balance of nature. Mr Bush what good is technological advancement if we kill ourselves off w/the by-products? I dont want missle defense I want ozone defense. *end of sermon* cheers, cordain From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 11:38:41 +0900 Hello Kirk Hello all Just joined the group a day or so ago. Am semi retired former aerospacer. Have been interested in alternative energy for over 25 years. Ham, KC7THL, and read a bit. Live in North America, central Montana to be more precise. The post below regarding potable water is worse than you know. You're quite right. It's hard to describe how serious it is. I just skimmed the surface because it's a bit OT. I didn't mention Europe, for instance, where most of the rivers are in a state of crisis. There are two issues here, water availability, and water quality, very much a double crisis, with very few countries exempted. Might help a bit if Mr Gates had had to pay $24 million instead of just $24,000 for squandering all that precious water, the stuff's way too cheap (like fuel). 70% of drinking water in US is undrinkable in my estimation. Chemicals, hormones, drugs and fertilizer to name a few. Many taps produce a head on the glass due to soap residue. I have looked at solar stills and have come to the conclusion only cement, glass, butyl and neoprene, and painted steel are reasonably permanent construction. Efficiency is low and in the North freezing stops operation. I thought a flat plate powered multistage might perform better. Imagine a series of n shaped containers. They are in an insulated box. Source water goes in left leg of n. insulation in between the 2 legs. Good themal contact to next n and ech one in turn. Allowing a delta T of 15-20 degrees per n the same BTU transports 3 times as much if 3 n deep. Heat one end of stack and cool the other. Needs some thought re cleaning. *The next comment is re fuels.* I am told the acid hydrolysis is a reaction where you recover your chemicals except for a bit of makeup. Opens up a lot more options for fuel. If anyone has hands on with this sort of thing I would like to hear their comments and critique of the website. http://www.arkenol.com/index.html#top Specifically I want to know about the Concentrated Acid Hydrolysis methodology they describe at http://www.arkenol.com/tech01.html websites/businesses that are trying to create non-petroleum besed fuels would be a good database to construct. Yes, big hassle to do though, and to maintain. But there are some plans afoot for useful db's, and this is a good suggestion, thanks. All
Re: Parallel Products was Re: [biofuel] Container Plants
Andrew, You have to be careful here. Variety is the spice of life they say. I am always thankful I was brought up to try things, otherwise there are alot of pleasures and enjoyment I would have missed. Next thing you will be telling us the French with their Provencial style cooking or the Indians, Ceylonese, or Thais dont know how to cook and they ruin good food by adding spices and other junk to it. I always remember when I was working in Holland good English working class guys that I worked with for a while bringing their their tins of Heinz baked beans, Daddys sauce, etc across to Holland and telling me I'm not eating this Dutch sh--. For all the good their foreign experience was doing them they may as well have stayed at home. I also remember when I was a teenager a little old Jewish man who ran a second hand record shop in Symonds St here in Auckland and who was an avid fan of classical music, jazz, blues, and other music saying to me that kids came in looking for The Beatles, Rolling Stones, and other Pop records, and when they couldnt find them, and saw the type of music he was into called him a square. He then said to me I'll tell you what a square is. A square is a person who is fixated on one style of music and is not prepared to listen to anyone elses. I have always kept these two experiences in mind and as a result have had many pleasureable and enjoyable experiences in my life so far. As my mother would say Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So very true. Mind you when brewing your own it dosnt take long to learn you can quickly surpass most commercial brews out there on the market. Another thing I learnt through travel very quickly was that generally the bigger the brewery the worse the beer. This largely comes about because shelf life is then of primary importance and taste and flavour come second. There is certainly no doubt that many micro breweries produce a far better product. This quite often comes down to attention to detail and an ingredient that a lot of big businesses leave out or short change the customer on, in order to make a bigger profit, called LOVE. As I said earlier today I have seen more accountants and banks shaft worthwhile small businesses than is caused by incompetance by the owner. B.r., David Cinnamon Pumpkin Ale? Come on now Todd. From all your posts I thought you were a rather sophisticated man with sophisticated tastes, and here you go talking about brewing ridiculous novelty beer. You aren't one of those people that ruin a perfectly good cup of coffee by adding a sugary flavored syrup to it are you? I agree with you whole heartedly about Bud and the wonders of brewing your own, but in my humble opinion beer should taste like beer, and dessert should taste a thanksgiving pie. I make a killer steam beer to rival Anchor, as well as a pumkin pie to die for; I just don't enjoy them together, call me unadventurous I guess. -Andrew Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] fluid bed reactors/steam engines
Hi Dana et al, After looking at the Fluid Bed principal (see www.sulzerfluidbed.com/fbprincipal.htm I tend to agree this may be a very efficient way of creating steam especially for use with Glycerine distillation purufication. Used waste heat could also possibly be used for some form of preheating as well. B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Tallow
Is there a group of people who deal strictly with ethanol who have an online discussion such as yours. This really a good way to air or receive great ideas. I enjoy reading the notes. Thanks, Ron miller - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:31 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow This web site may be of interest to you http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing bio-d from high FFA feedstock. I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could communicate? Hanns Wetzel Aleks Kac's Foolproof method produces high-quality biod from high-FFA feedstock (or any feedstock), and won't cost you anything. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Tallow , My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow, As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and inexpensive. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] portable elect generators, biodiesel bid
Hi Ed andAll, --- NBT - E. Beggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about a Little Deutz Coupe, instead, and leave the electric stuff at home? The only problem with that is the little Deutz Coupe only gets about 10% of the fuel's energy to the road and is rather slow while the EV is as fast as it wants to be while getting 20% of the biodiesel's energy to the road. That means you can use 1/2 the biodiesel and either save the rest or sell it. Btw the local bus line here , Hartline, has invited me to bid for their biodiesel needs. Turns out they buy diesel for $.77 a gal on the spot in the fall and spring getting low prices. The local biodiesel maker that was called NOPEC , one of the first since 93 at least, but has another name now has bid biodiesel to them for $.97 a gal and they want as much as they can get. The Hartline guy said they were probably lowballing it to get the account. Gov diesel fleets are required to do something about emissions and biodiesel is about the only thing they can do without large modifications to their existing fleets. Check them out in your area if you want to be a biofuel seller. jerry dycus Ed B. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] to Keith and Joseph re CH4
To Keith and Joseph, Thank you for the quick response re CH4 and methanol. I am impressed with the ideas and knowledge that come from this forum. Good stuff. Thanks, ja. Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
BBQ Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? Hi Steve, Sounds interesting. Do you mean lpg (liquid petroleum gas) or low pressure? B.r., David - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? i have plans for a oil/gas multifuel burner I'll be posting soon. has a replaceable (cheap) jet assembly depending on fuel, and is made from a lp tank. Steve Spence Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio-D
http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biodiesel_ethanol.htm Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Cantrell, Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuels mailing list (E-mail) biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 4:19 PM Subject: [biofuel] Bio-D There are a few guys out here in KS starting to experiment with our first batches of biodiesel. We're looking for some additional information on using ethanol rather than methanol for the transesterification (one guy owns a nice still)--does this complicate the process? Is there some good information about it someone could refer us to? Thanks! Matt Cantrell Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Energy modesty immoral
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/environ/20010511/t39764.html Friday, May 11, 2001 | Print this story Nonprofit Shrugs at Pleas to Conserve Power: Ayn Rand Institute blasts calls to use less electricity. Utility and government officials defend conservation. By BOB POOL, Times Staff Writer Their other electricity customers may be following the Southern California Edison Co.'s plea to conserve electricity during the current energy crisis. But don't expect anyone to be going room-to-room flipping off lights and turning down air conditioning in a fourth-floor suite at one Marina del Rey office building. That kind of conservation is immoral and un-American, say those working at the Ayn Rand Institute international headquarters on Admiralty Way. The 15-year-old nonprofit group is run by devotees of novelist and philosopher Ayn Rand, who died in 1982. It is a clearinghouse and educational center for those who embrace Rand's theories of individualism and laissez-faire capitalism. Her philosophy, Rand wrote, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity. Rand--whose first name rhymes with mine--is best known for the novels The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, which together have sold 20 million copies. Institute leaders are blasting calls for electricity conservation and the executive order issued last week by President Bush that directs operators of federal buildings in California to reduce energy consumption. Expecting the American people to lower their standard of living is an immoral idea, said Yaron Brook, the institute's executive director. Conservation is not a long- or short-term solution to the energy crisis. Conservation is the un-American idea of resigning oneself to doing with less--like a sick person who stops seeking a cure and resigns himself to living with his illness. Instead, he said, market forces should prevail to increase power supplies and reduce demand. On Thursday, Brook's statements surprised officials pleading with Californians to turn off lights and reduce air conditioning to help prevent rolling blackouts. 'Un-American?' I've never heard that before, said Tom Boyd, an Edison spokesman. We and other utilities are urging our customers to conserve electricity and use it wisely. Lori O'Donley, a spokeswoman for the California Independent System Operator, the agency that monitors power consumption and orders rolling blackouts when supplies run low, said that there are times we feel conservation has made a difference in calling or not calling for blackouts. A White House spokeswoman said President Bush stands by his call for conservation. The president believes the federal government should do its part. He takes the energy crisis in California very seriously and believes it is right and appropriate to explore how we can conserve energy, Claire Buchan said. Brook disagrees. The 40-year-old former Santa Clara University finance professor has headed the institute since last August. It has 16 staffers and operates on a $3-million annual budget financed by about 4,000 contributors--all firm believers in Ayn Rand's philosophy. Brook said he was a teenager living in Israel when he read Atlas Shrugged and was immediately converted from the concept of socialism to capitalism. By coincidence, that novel features a countrywide blackout that is the result of massive government economic regulation. Rand writes on page 1,075 of towns reduced to the life of those ages in which artificial light was an exorbitant luxury and a sunset put an end to human activity. The towns were ruined by rations, quotas, controls and power-conservation rules. Brook said the institute's Marina del Rey headquarters has thus far been spared blackouts. But at his Tustin home, he and his wife and two children turn off lights when they aren't needed. I do it because I don't want to pay higher electricity bills, he said with a laugh. I don't want to pay for something I don't use. Copyright 2001 Los Angeles Times Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio-D
There are a few guys out here in KS starting to experiment with our first batches of biodiesel. We're looking for some additional information on using ethanol rather than methanol for the transesterification (one guy owns a nice still)--does this complicate the process? Is there some good information about it someone could refer us to? Thanks! Matt Cantrell Hello Matt The information you need is below. Note however that ethanol must be dry to make ethyl esters. The purest ethanol that can be produced by ordinary distillation is only 95.6% pure, the rest being water, which interferes with the transesterification reaction in making ethyl ester. You'll find information in the references below. What kind of still does your friend have? I'd be interested to know the output rate and the proof it produces. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ From: Ethanol resources on the Web: Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html Ethanol biodiesel Optimization of a Batch Type Ethyl Ester Process -- a sure-fire recipe for biodiesel from ethanol (which you can make yourself), instead of methanol (which is toxic, fossil-fuel derived, and you can't make it yourself). Go to Biofuels Library. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html Production and Testing of Ethyl and Methyl Esters http://www.biodiesel.org/reports/GEN-005.html Making and Testing a Biodiesel Fuel Made From Ethanol and Waste French-Fry Oil (Acrobat File) http://www.biodiesel.org/reports/GEN-152.pdf Hydrogenated Soy Ethyl Ester (HySEE) Process Refinement (Acrobat File) http://www.biodiesel.org/reports/GEN-153.pdf Transesterification Process to Manufacture Ethyl Ester of Rape Oil (Acrobat File) http://www.biodiesel.org/reports/GEN-250.pdf Cornmeal Adsorber for Dehydrating Ethanol Vapors -- by Michael R. Ladisch et al., Laboratory of Renewable Resources Engineering, Purdue University. To make ethyl esters the ethanol must be anhydrous -- no water content. About half the ethanol now produced in the US is dried using corn grits. When the corn's drying capacity is worn out, it can be fermented and distilled to make more ethanol. This 1981 paper is the original work on the subject. Go to the Biofuels Library. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html See also The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel, Chapter 12, Drying the alcohol (full text online): http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Container Plants
Hi David I think Todd and I were talking mostly about Biodiesel Industries' Modular Production Unit (MPU), which is an expensive corporate gadget, and most of your points wouldn't apply (except #7). (See Container units - was Re: [biofuel] Yield of Jerusalem artichoke). I did post some info on historical use of mobile units (ethanol). I think Todd's comparison is with providing permanent infrastructure for local cooperatives (grower-user-community energy self-suffiency), so your points #1-6 wouldn't apply either. Where primary producers want to market fuel, rather than use it themselves or for the local community, there could be a case for mobile units, depending (as always) on the circumstances. But again, if they could afford it, they'd be better off, producing a cheaper product and with greater independence and flexibility, if they had their own plant tailored to their needs. Whoever makes it, whether on-site or a mobile unit, it still has to travel down that road, good or bad, to get to the market. Where use of the fuel is to be local, there's a case for a mobile unit where the producers/local community can't afford their own production unit(s). But with a bit of improvising, small but effective on-farm units can be very cheap. In Third World rural areas labour to run them is also usually very cheap. You have to see the operator of the mobile unit as another middleman, after all. A mobile unit can certainly help to spread the concept of local fuel self-sufficiency, and to extend the technology, and serve as an interim measure until appropriate local facilities are installed. Actually Journey to Forever will be such a unit, among other things, though we aren't going to need a container for it. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Keith, Todd, et al, While mobile plants may not be applicable to the States and even there I am doubtful I certainly believe and am convinced in many places in Asia (certainly India for one) that a mobile plant would be a very good idea principally for the following good reasons: 1) the first is the quality of the roads and difficulty of getting product to market. 2) the second is that it makes more sense sometimes to produce the product where it is going to be used rather than sending it to market and then having to get the finished product returned. 3) the third is that it cuts out the middleman. 4) the fourth is that if being sent to market and then returned a certain % of the fuel produced is being consumed in transportation and hence higher production costs. Also higher inefficiencies built into production costs. 5) the fifth is that the people who produce the raw material and generally do the hard part generally get the least out of the deal. eg. the campesinos who pick coffee generally get 20c kg, the farmer gets 50c, and yet consider how much you pay for a cup of coffee at any good western country city cafe (note 140 cups of espresso coffee to a kg of roasted coffee). The same is true of farming generally. Using a mobile plant can leave the benefits in the producers hands rather than some great multi national who most of the time are top heavy, inefficient, and darn greedy. 6) the sixth is that the producers of the raw materials can combine together in the locality the material is grown to produce greater efficiency and lower their production costs. 7) the seventh is that a mobile plant can quite often serve for a time in a transitory phase while an industry is growing. I could go on for a while listing a number of reasons I am sure but I believe the reasons above are more than enough. Some of these also apply to the States and especially certain localities. While a lot of multi nationals might or might try to convince you otherwise those at the coalface generally know otherwise. In my lifetime I have seen more good businesses sunk by accountants and banks than by incompetance on the behalf of those who actually run the business. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Container Plants Hi Todd I agree, I can't see it - well, not for the likes of us. Nor for farmers, coops, local communities. It's corporate stuff I guess. Keith, Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance
Hello Kirk Hello all Just joined the group a day or so ago. Am semi retired former aerospacer. Have been interested in alternative energy for over 25 years. Ham, KC7THL, and read a bit. Live in North America, central Montana to be more precise. The post below regarding potable water is worse than you know. You're quite right. It's hard to describe how serious it is. I just skimmed the surface because it's a bit OT. I didn't mention Europe, for instance, where most of the rivers are in a state of crisis. There are two issues here, water availability, and water quality, very much a double crisis, with very few countries exempted. Might help a bit if Mr Gates had had to pay $24 million instead of just $24,000 for squandering all that precious water, the stuff's way too cheap (like fuel). 70% of drinking water in US is undrinkable in my estimation. Chemicals, hormones, drugs and fertilizer to name a few. Many taps produce a head on the glass due to soap residue. I have looked at solar stills and have come to the conclusion only cement, glass, butyl and neoprene, and painted steel are reasonably permanent construction. Efficiency is low and in the North freezing stops operation. I thought a flat plate powered multistage might perform better. Imagine a series of n shaped containers. They are in an insulated box. Source water goes in left leg of n. insulation in between the 2 legs. Good themal contact to next n and ech one in turn. Allowing a delta T of 15-20 degrees per n the same BTU transports 3 times as much if 3 n deep. Heat one end of stack and cool the other. Needs some thought re cleaning. *The next comment is re fuels.* I am told the acid hydrolysis is a reaction where you recover your chemicals except for a bit of makeup. Opens up a lot more options for fuel. If anyone has hands on with this sort of thing I would like to hear their comments and critique of the website. http://www.arkenol.com/index.html#top Specifically I want to know about the Concentrated Acid Hydrolysis methodology they describe at http://www.arkenol.com/tech01.html websites/businesses that are trying to create non-petroleum besed fuels would be a good database to construct. Yes, big hassle to do though, and to maintain. But there are some plans afoot for useful db's, and this is a good suggestion, thanks. All the best Kirk Arkenol won't tell you much, none of them will. These references should help - especially the first, Wood-Ethanol Report. From: Ethanol resources on the Web: Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html Ethanol from cellulose Wood-Ethanol Report: Technology Review, Environment Canada 1999 -- good overview of the problem and the current solutions on offer. http://www.pyr.ec.gc.ca/ep/wet/section16.html Fuel From Sawdust -- by Mike Brown (from Acres, USA, 19 June 1983): Conversion of cellulose, such as sawdust, cornstalks, newspaper and other substances, to alcohol -- a fairly uncomplicated and straightforward process. Go to the Biofuels Library. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html Arkenol Inc. is a pioneer in processing cellulose biomas into ethanol: agricultural wastes, straw, leaves, grass clippings, sawdust or old newspapers. The company uses proprietary concentrated acid hydrolysis technology and is in the final development stages for a 48 million litre per year biorefinery in Sacramento, California processing rice straw. http://www.arkenol.com The Iogen Corporation of Canada is the leader in developing and manufacturing ethanol-from-cellulose. The Iogen process is an enzymatic hydrolysis process for converting lignocellulosics to ethanol -- uses steam explosion pretreatment pioneered by the company and Iogen's proprietary enzymes. http://www.iogen.ca/fuels.htm BC International Corporation uses a genetically modified organism to produce ethanol from biomass wastes such as agricultural residues, municipal waste, and forest thinnings. Two-stage dilute acid hydrolysis process for the preparation of the sugar streams and two separate fermentations although both use the same organism. http://www.bcintlcorp.com/ Ethanol Production in Hawaii, a pre-feasibility study who a focus on ethanol from cellulose. Includes comparison of the different processes: simultaneous saccharification and fermentation; concentrated acid hydrolysis, neutralization and fermentation; ammonia disruption, hydrolysis and fermentation; steam disruption, hydrolysis and fermentation; acid disruption and transgenic microorganism fermentation; concentrated acid hydrolysis, acid recycle and fermentation; and acidified acetone extraction, hydrolysis and fermentation. http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/ethanol/ethano94.html Good list of references: http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/ethanol/refs.html Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL
RE: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance
Thank you very much Keith. Kirk -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 8:39 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance Hello Kirk Hello all Just joined the group a day or so ago. Am semi retired former aerospacer. Have been interested in alternative energy for over 25 years. Ham, KC7THL, and read a bit. Live in North America, central Montana to be more precise. The post below regarding potable water is worse than you know. You're quite right. It's hard to describe how serious it is. I just skimmed the surface because it's a bit OT. I didn't mention Europe, for instance, where most of the rivers are in a state of crisis. There are two issues here, water availability, and water quality, very much a double crisis, with very few countries exempted. Might help a bit if Mr Gates had had to pay $24 million instead of just $24,000 for squandering all that precious water, the stuff's way too cheap (like fuel). --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance
Thank you very much Keith. Kirk You're most welcome, Kirk. :-) Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Tallow
Hi Hans, I'm From the US and would like info on who has the best still design. I plan on building my own using stainless steel. I also want to know who has the best performing distillers yeast. I am planning on making fuel for my automobile and lawn equipment. So far I have downloaded The Home Distillation Handbook By Gert Strand. It's really good but lacks good plans for a still. If you have any good info please let me know. I need good details for construction purposes. Thanks, Ron Miller Mobile , Alabama - Original Message - From: ronald miller sr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Tallow Is there a group of people who deal strictly with ethanol who have an online discussion such as yours. This really a good way to air or receive great ideas. I enjoy reading the notes. Thanks, Ron miller - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:31 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow This web site may be of interest to you http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing bio-d from high FFA feedstock. I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could communicate? Hanns Wetzel Aleks Kac's Foolproof method produces high-quality biod from high-FFA feedstock (or any feedstock), and won't cost you anything. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Tallow , My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow, As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and inexpensive. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Tallow
Hanns forgive me for mispelling your name and forgetting to give you my e-mail address. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: ronald miller sr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Tallow Is there a group of people who deal strictly with ethanol who have an online discussion such as yours. This really a good way to air or receive great ideas. I enjoy reading the notes. Thanks, Ron miller - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:31 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow This web site may be of interest to you http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing bio-d from high FFA feedstock. I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could communicate? Hanns Wetzel Aleks Kac's Foolproof method produces high-quality biod from high-FFA feedstock (or any feedstock), and won't cost you anything. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Tallow , My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow, As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and inexpensive. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Distilling fuel ethanol - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow
Hi Hans, I'm From the US and would like info on who has the best still design. I plan on building my own using stainless steel. I also want to know who has the best performing distillers yeast. I am planning on making fuel for my automobile and lawn equipment. So far I have downloaded The Home Distillation Handbook By Gert Strand. It's really good but lacks good plans for a still. If you have any good info please let me know. I need good details for construction purposes. Thanks, Ron Miller Mobile , Alabama Hello Ron The Home Distillation Handbook is really for drinkers more than fuellers. You should do better with these (both full-text online, free access): Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meToC.html The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html There's currently a shortage of a good fuel alcohol still, sorry to say. The stills on offer are mostly for drink production and are too small. But we're working on it and should have some results soon. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] fluid bed reactors/steam engines
David, The fluid beds I referred to are reactors/combustors and although the site you refer to is about fluid beds and gives a good description of fluid beds in general they bear very little resemblence to the fluid bed reactors I have been referring to where an oxidation reaction takes place. Sorry I have been unable to provide a schematic. Long days leave little time to do so...didn't get to check the posts till nearly midnight. I will do so as soon as I can. Dana Linscott --- David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Dana et al, After looking at the Fluid Bed principal (see www.sulzerfluidbed.com/fbprincipal.htm I tend to agree this may be a very efficient way of creating steam especially for use with Glycerine distillation purufication. Used waste heat could also possibly be used for some form of preheating as well. B.r., David __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Caveat on Container Plants
I'm not terribly disappointed with the concept of Container Plants, save but one caveat. Almost all biofuel feedstocks are derivatives of a farmer's labors, whether it be the tallow from cattle, oil from seed or the waste oils from a fish and chips plant. Yet this profession usually has the lowest profit margin relative to energy and capital inputs. These people need a method to break out of the Catch 22 that they are in. The more they produce, the less they get paid. The less they produce, the fewer bills get paid. And it's not really that much different of a Catch in countries other than the US. Relative to mobile biodiesel plants, enlisting others to provide a service that can be home grown will do little to foster liberation of a farming community, as the monies are siphoned off elsewhere. The implementation of mobile plants will inevitably create a dependence by the farmers upon the plant owners, who in turn can begin to dictate pricing as they gain such leverage, placing the farmer once again in a position of lessened, little or no control. One definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. It doesn't matter if the oil crop is processed by Cargill or another at a terminal 100 miles distant, or if it is processed by a middle person on the farmer's back porch. Both are methods of gleaning cash from what for many are already shallow pockets. Both can easily be(come) take it or leave it market manipulations. There may be situations where a mobile plant has valid use. But these instances would or should be pretty much as mobile or transient as the plant. By and large, I would scrap about 98% of the idea of mobile processing and concentrate on modular plant manufacture. Containerized, perhaps, but with the intent of being rather permanent once components are located on a site and coupled together. Unless the intent is to keep shaving the farmer's bar of soap until there is little left to bathe with. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] fluid bed reactors/steam engines
Dana, No hurry. Thanks for the explanation. Could find nothing under my search for fluid bed reactor. Look forward to hearing from you in due course. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] fluid bed reactors/steam engines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Information required
Thanks Keith for the info. I will checkout the BAA ASAP. As I said to Hanns, biodiesel is not big news here in the press. It was said on the report concerning the Newcastle Council's entry into biodiesel that if people were thinking of mass biodiesel production then the federal government would consider sticking on the same tax as petrodiesel and gas. Sort of takes the shine off being environmentally friendly doesn't it? regards Barryt - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 3:10 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Information requires Hello Barry Do you know of BAA? The Biodiesel Association of Australia has been established to promote and build a viable and ecologically sustainable biodiesel industry in Australia. Will offer supplies of biodiesel for registered members. FAQ, what-is, news press, standards, documents, getting it, making it, events, and more. http://biodiesel.vtrekker.com/ Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Hanns, I am not sure if you are referring to me or Steve Spence. If it's me then I live on the northern beaches of Sydney. Biodiesel is not an issue here at all. I have heard virtually nothing about it locally in the press. About a month ago the Newcastle City Council, north of Sydney, said they were going to run their garbage trucks on biodiesel. The cost savings were mooted but not the environmental advantages. I don't know what its like where you are. regards Barryt - Original Message - From: Hanns B. Wetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 8:49 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Information requires Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Biodiesel in Australia - was Re: [biofuel] Information required
Hi Barry Thanks Keith for the info. I will checkout the BAA ASAP. Nice folks, doing good work. As I said to Hanns, biodiesel is not big news here in the press. Yet there's great interest in it there. At least 80 members of this group are from Oz. Australia runs second in visits to our biofuels pages at Journey to Forever, after the US and before Canada and the UK. You guys ought to start putting some pressure on your media maybe. And on public opinion too. It's easy to promote biodiesel, especially when it's made from waste oil. It catches the imagination. It was said on the report concerning the Newcastle Council's entry into biodiesel that if people were thinking of mass biodiesel production then the federal government would consider sticking on the same tax as petrodiesel and gas. Sort of takes the shine off being environmentally friendly doesn't it? I'm 10,000 miles away from him, but I just felt Terry wince in the UK! He's led a long fight there to get a highly unreasonable tax reduced, and recently succeeded. I guess gummints just aren't very bright. Or maybe just not as bright as they're greedy. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ regards Barryt - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 3:10 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Information requires Hello Barry Do you know of BAA? The Biodiesel Association of Australia has been established to promote and build a viable and ecologically sustainable biodiesel industry in Australia. Will offer supplies of biodiesel for registered members. FAQ, what-is, news press, standards, documents, getting it, making it, events, and more. http://biodiesel.vtrekker.com/ Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Hanns, I am not sure if you are referring to me or Steve Spence. If it's me then I live on the northern beaches of Sydney. Biodiesel is not an issue here at all. I have heard virtually nothing about it locally in the press. About a month ago the Newcastle City Council, north of Sydney, said they were going to run their garbage trucks on biodiesel. The cost savings were mooted but not the environmental advantages. I don't know what its like where you are. regards Barryt Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Countries visiting Biofuels site
FYI, visitors to the Biofuels pages at Journey to Forever come from these countries, in descending order according to number of visits - 93 countries. Steve Spence can probably tell a similar story about Webconx. The biofuels movement is definitely global, and growing fast. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ United States Australia (.au) Canada (.ca) United Kingdom (.uk) New Zealand (.nz) Argentina (.ar) Japan (.jp) Spain (.es) Italy (.it) Netherlands (.nl) Belgium (.be) Indonesia (.id) Uruguay (.uy) South Africa (.za) Germany (.de) Thailand (.th) Malaysia (.my) Hong Kong (.hk) Taiwan (.tw) Austria (.at) Sweden (.se) Brazil (.br) Mexico (.mx) Denmark (.dk) Hungary (.hu) Singapore (.sg) Finland (.fi) Cote D'Ivoire (.ci) Greece (.gr) Turkey (.tr) Estonia (.ee) Columbia (.co) Ireland (.ie) Slovenia (.si) France (.fr) Saudi Arabia (.sa) Trinidad and Tobago (.tt) Bolivia (.bo) Poland (.pl) India (.in) Pakistan (.pk) Philippines (.ph) Costa Rica (.cr) Lithuania (.lt) Zimbabwe (.zw) China (.cn) Yugoslavia (.yu) Czech Republic (.cz) Norway (.no) Portugal (.pt) Romania (.ro) Croatia/Hrvatska (.hr) Switzerland (.ch) Paraguay (.py) Israel (.il) Oman (.om) Slovakia (.sk) Iceland (.is) Latvia (.lv) Mauritius (.mu) Jordan (.jo) Chile (.cl) Ecuador (.ec) Bermuda (.bm) Cuba (.cu) Cyprus (.cy) Namibia (.na) Niue (.nu) Russian Federation (.ru) San Marino (.sm) Brunei Darussalam (.bn) Faroe Islands (.fo) Macedonia (.mk) Nepal (.np) Vanuatu (.vu) Armenia (.am) Belize (.bz) Bulgaria (.bg) Cambodia (.kh) Dominican Republic (.do) Egypt (.eg) Fiji (.fj) French Polynesia (.pf) Kenya (.ke) Korea, Republic of (.kr) Luxembourg (.lu) Panama (.pa) Peru (.pe) Solomon Islands (.sb) Swaziland (.sz) Ukraine (.ua) United Arab Emirates (.ae) Zambia (.zm) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Tallow
Hans I have emailed BDI and they have replied that they can not take any new enquires until they have reduced their backlog Regards Frank - Original Message - From: Hanns B. Wetzel To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 8:42 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow This web site may be of interest to you http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing bio-d from high FFA feedstock. I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could communicate? Hanns Wetzel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Tallow , My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow, As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and inexpensive. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Ethanol groups - was Re: [biofuel] Tallow
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey guys, ethanol is totally welcome here. we tend to get really intense on biodiesel at times, but if you are doing ethanol work (and many of you are) please, speak up. Steve Spence Yeah, and even some us die-hard biodieselers are converting to ethanolers too(well, to become 'bireligional - is that the right term?). We are fed up with the high methanol price and low winter efficiency of methyl esters. With ethanol we could make biodiesel as a real biofuel. Cheers, Aleks Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Caveat on Container Plants
Todd - is this the technology or the application? If owned cooperatively by the farmers, the problem you describe would not occur, correct? Ed B. Subject: [biofuel] Caveat on Container Plants Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Container Plants Good Ideas?
In our case the concept of a mobile/container plant for BD is due the fact that it is a farmer cooperative effort and the plan is to be able to move the plant so that members with available time can easily run it without having to drive to it each day. We also hope that by having it mobile we can avoid some of the hassles local zoning boards might misplace upon us as they may only understand that it is a fuel processing plant and so equate it with the dangers and hazards of petrochemical plants. If past experience is any indication even after getting the OK to build a non mobile plant the local boards may (illegally) revoke it and require a huge expenditure in attorney fees to get it reinstated. Small county Govt. often seems to feel that it does not need to live within the law...and occasionally there is corrupt officials that must either be bribed (unacceptable for me) or fought. My old Sensai taught that when you have lost the option of flight you have likely lost the battle. We also believe that we can use the waste heat for various purposes such as drying grain/corn and thereby close the cycle tighter. There is an old saying about butchering pigs...that you should be able to use everything but the squealin this case we hope to even use that. Additionally, we hope to use this unit as a teaching tool by taking around the state/region to encourage other farmers to form similar coops and grow their own fuel. Just thought I should add that there may be some good reasons for mobility. Dana Linscott __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
