[biofuels-biz] Is Big Energy Hijacking Hydrogen?
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14959 Is Big Energy Hijacking Hydrogen? By Jim Motavalli, E Magazine January 16, 2003 Whether or not hydrogen becomes the people's energy depends to a large extent on how it is generated and transported in the current, early stages of development. This sustainable gas can be generated locally via renewables like wind, biomass or solar power, but it could also be a new product for our large-scale, centralized oil and nuclear power industries. Mike Nicklas, chairperson of the American Solar Energy Society (ACES), warns that even though the Bush administration is publicly supporting hydrogen development through its new FreedomCAR program, its vision does not support clean energy technologies for hydrogen production. 'Clean' in this case means coal, nuclear and natural gas, says Nicklas, who attended the federal National Hydrogen Energy Roadmap Workshop last April. Fossil fuel and nuclear industry representatives dominated the session on hydrogen production, Nicklas observes. We're now at the point of making a transition to an entirely new energy paradigm, and we don't need to be continuing the carbon era by other means. Nicklas says that ACES is working with other groups, including Worldwatch and the World Resources Institute, to promote truly renewable hydrogen generation. In what could be a parallel to its purchase of many solar companies, the oil industry is buying in to hydrogen: Shell established Shell Renewables in 1997 and Shell Hydrogen in 2000, BP/Amoco is investing $500 million in renewables over three years, and ChevronTexaco has purchased a 20 percent stake in Energy Conversion Devices, a Detroit-based photovoltaic, battery and fuel-cell company. Large utilities are also interested in generating hydrogen from what they call clean coal, coupled with a scheme to sequester, or isolate the resulting carbon dioxide emissions to prevent them from entering the atmosphere. According to one scenario, coal would react with steam and oxygen before combustion to produce hydrogen and carbon dioxide, with the carbon dioxide liquefied and stored underground in deep aquifers or other geological formations. Going Nuclear At the annual meeting of the World Nuclear Association in London last September, the group's director general, John Ritch, touted what he called the hydrogen-nuclear economy. He envisions an entirely clean energy global economy, with nuclear power supplying not only electricity and clean water, but also energizing transport of all kinds. There are 400 conventional nuclear plants in the world, generating a sixth of global electricity. While these plants produce no emissions of carbon dioxide, the major global warming gas, they have created an intractable radioactive waste crisis and an ongoing safety debate that has made it extremely difficult to license any new facilities. Some scientists see the need for large-scale hydrogen production as a way to jumpstart the moribund nuclear industry. Speaking at the International Youth Nuclear Congress in South Korea last April, Dr. Leon Walters, former director of engineering at Argonne National Laboratory, estimated that nuclear powernow just seven percent of U.S. power productioncould leap to 50 percent if it were harnessed to produce hydrogen for transportation. He estimates that a transition to a hydrogen-nuclear economy would take 30 years. General Atomics held a workshop last May on producing hydrogen from both conventional nuclear fission and as-yet unproven nuclear fusion. L.M. Wagner of Boeing said at the forum that hydrogen could be profitably produced in off-peak hours from fusion reactors. Nuclear fusion, if it were feasible, would produce no radioactive waste or bomb-grade materials, but no practical process for a fusion reactor has yet been demonstrated, despite hundreds of millions of dollars in funding over the past 50 years. Joan Ogden, a Princeton research scientist, says that the frontrunner for nuclear hydrogen production is a thermochemical heat process. This is a difficult technology that is much further from commercialization than many other hydrogen production options, Ogden says. A recent analysis by Ogden's Princeton colleague, Robert Williams, found that thermochemical nuclear hydrogen would be an expensive and complicated procedure when compared to other methods. Environmentalists have reacted with dismay to the attempt to nuclearize hydrogen production. Nuclear-generated hydrogen is like a nicotine patch that causes cancer, says Dan Becker, energy program director for the Sierra Club. This certainly explains one level of the Bush administration's sudden interest. But if we're looking to hydrogen to free us from old forms of energy, why would we suddenly go nuclear, with all the well-known problems? The federal Roadmap workshop that Nicklas attended did indeed give a prominent role to nuclear-generated
Re: [biofuels-biz] Space shuttle
Not to belittle what has happened, but a little something to put the shuttle incident into context http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/02/02/1044122251403.html Regards, Andrew Lowe On 2 Feb 2003 at 0:02, Hakan Falk wrote: This is a very very sad day. Hakan ** If you want to take a look on a project that is very close to my heart, go to: http://energysavingnow.com/ http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site ** A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. -- Dresden James No flag is large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people -- Howard Zinn Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul. - Unknown Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Babington Vegetable Oil Burner Updates
New changes, new pictures. Cleaner Burning, Higher output. No smoke, no carbon buildup. Heat your house, garage, or hot water. Even make a steam generator from new or used vegetable oil. http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/babington Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] More on acrylamide
See archives for previous. Keith http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2702241.stm BBC NEWS | Health | Wednesday, 29 January, 2003, 10:29 GMT Food chemical cleared of cancer link Chips are among the foods containing acrylamide High levels of a chemical found in foods such as chips, crisps and bread do not, as feared, seem to raise the risk of cancer, research suggests. Research in the past year has shown that many types of cooked food contained moderately high levels of a chemical called acrylamide, which is considered to be potentially carcinogenic. This study provides preliminary evidence that there's less to worry about than was thought Dr Lorelei Mucci Acrylamide appears to form as a result of a reaction at high temperatures between specific sugars and other chemicals found in food. But scientists from the US and Sweden found that dietary levels of acrylamide do not seem to be sufficient to increase the risk of large bowel, bladder and kidney cancers - the forms of the disease likely to be affected. Researchers studied the diets of 987 cancer patients and 538 healthy people, in order to see if there was any link between the amount of high-acrylamide food eaten and risk of the disease. Each person in the study filled out a detailed questionnaire, listing how often they ate a total of 188 different types of food. These included some - such as crisps, french fries, fried potatoes, bread and biscuits - which contain high to medium levels of acrylamide. Scientists calculated overall levels of the chemical in each individual's diet. Possible risk Lead researcher Dr Lorelei Mucci, of the Harvard School of Public Health, said: The discovery last year that many types of food contained high levels of acrylamide was disturbing, since acrylamide is classified as a probable carcinogen. It's therefore reassuring that the levels of acrylamide that individuals are generally exposed to through food do not appear to increase the risk of these cancers. There remain several food items whose acrylamide levels are not known, so there is still a chance that extremely high levels of the chemical could contribute to cancer risk. Plus acrylamide increases the risk of certain neurological conditions and there are currently no data looking at the intake of acrylamide-rich foods and these diseases. Overall, though, this study provides preliminary evidence that there's less to worry about than was thought. Other factors Researchers took into account a number of other factors which affect cancer risk, most importantly smoking, which is itself a major source of acrylamide and many other proven carcinogens. There was no relationship between dietary acrylamide and the risk of bladder or kidney cancer. But high amounts of acrylamide were associated with reduced risk of bowel cancer, although this may be because the foods high in acrylamide are also rich in other factors, such as fibre, that may reduce the risk of the disease. Sir Paul Nurse, chief executive of Cancer Research UK, said: We know that acrylamide can be carcinogenic to animals, but this study suggests that either levels in food are too low to affect cancer risk, or that the body is able to deactivate the chemical in some way. The research is published in the British Journal of Cancer. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Africa 'turns from leaded petrol'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2689209.stm BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Friday, 24 January, 2003, 12:03 GMT Africa 'turns from leaded petrol' By Alex Kirby BBC News Online environment correspondent In a move which promises significant gains for public health, most of Africa is expected to change soon to unleaded petrol. The United Nations Environment Programme (Unep) says the end of leaded fuel in Africa is in sight. By 2008, it thinks, most of the continent will have made the move, or be close to doing so. It is working with countries across Africa to hasten the change. Unep says about 90% of global petrol supplies are now unleaded, with most of the remaining 10% burnt in developing countries. It says Egypt, Libya, Sudan and Mauritius have already phased out leaded fuel. Another 22 countries either have action plans to abandon it by 2005-6, or are drawing them up, it says. Setting an example They include South Africa, Nigeria, Ghana, Togo, Kenya, Uganda and Eritrea. This year, Unep says, Morocco, Reunion, Tunisia and Western Sahara are expected to join them. Lead damages young brains Unep, which is based in Nairobi, the Kenyan capital, is stopping the sale of leaded fuel at the filling station at its HQ there. Dr Klaus Toepfer, Unep's executive director, said: It has been known for many years that lead in petrol is a serious health risk, particularly to children. Studies have demonstrated that children living near roads and in urban areas where leaded petrol is used can suffer brain damage, with symptoms including lower intelligence scores. Dr Toepfer said that was why leaded petrol had been phased out across most of the world. Summit thanks He said: Much of Africa, mainly for technological reasons, a lack of awareness of the health risks, and misconceptions about the impact of unleaded fuels on engines, has lagged behind. Africa is switching fast to unleaded fuel However, partly because of work already under way and the new impetus from the global Partnership for Clean Fuels and Vehicles, the situation is rapidly changing, and a lead-free Africa is in sight. This is one of the first concrete outcomes of the World Summit on Sustainable Development (WSSD) held six months ago in South Africa. The voluntary initiative, a so-called Type II project, was born there with funding and support from governments, the private sector including the oil and automobile industries, civil society and international organizations like Unep. No worries Rob de Jong, Unep's urban environment programme officer, said: Many people who drive older cars are convinced they will suffer engine damage if they fill up with unleaded fuel. But this really is not the case. Only under the extreme conditions of a laboratory test can effects be seen. In the real world, under normal motoring conditions prevailing in Africa, unleaded petrol works as well if not better in most if not all vehicles. The WSSD called for a rapid phasing-out of leaded petrol across the world. Many countries are intent on achieving the goal by 2005. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Environmentally Friendly Vehicle confab kicks off
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nb20030124a6.htm The Japan Times Online Environmentally Friendly Vehicle confab kicks off The first International Meeting on Environmentally Friendly Vehicles opened Thursday in Tokyo as part of global efforts to develop greener vehicles and fight air pollution and global warming. Participants gathering for the two-day conference include representatives from the United States, China and the European Union as well as three international organizations. Major topics include how to harmonize regulations on emissions and fuel efficiency, proceed with technological development for common use, give users and automakers incentives through taxes and subsidies, and provide support for developing countries. Promising EFV candidates include fuel-cell vehicles, next-generation hybrid vehicles, electric vehicles and super-clean diesel vehicles. Japan is hoping participants will be able to come up with concrete numerical targets on fuel efficiency and emission cuts for such vehicles. A senior government official, however, said reaching a consensus may be difficult as opinions vary among representatives. Participants include Japan, Canada, Australia, South Korea, Singapore and the Asian Development Bank. Vice transport minister Gotaro Yoshimura said in an opening address that the meeting provides a good opportunity for comprehensive discussions at a time when the world faces serious climate change and air pollution problems. The meeting was initially proposed at a gathering of transport ministers a year ago. The Japan Times: Jan. 24, 2003 (C) All rights reserved Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Is Big Energy Hijacking Hydrogen?
Amazing how this lie is continually trotted out year after year. Where do these people think the energy comes from to mine, refine,transport and expend nuclear fuel? The exact same fossil fuel sources that are used to build the infrastructure to store the waste. Nuclear power is not CO2 free and obviously not clean. There are 400 conventional nuclear plants in the world, generating a sixth of global electricity. While these plants produce no emissions of carbon dioxide, the major global warming gas, they have created an intractable radioactive waste crisis and an ongoing safety debate that has made it extremely difficult to license any new facilities. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 3:37 AM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Is Big Energy Hijacking Hydrogen? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14959 Is Big Energy Hijacking Hydrogen? By Jim Motavalli, E Magazine January 16, 2003 Whether or not hydrogen becomes the people's energy depends to a large extent on how it is generated and transported in the current, early stages of development. This sustainable gas can be generated locally via renewables like wind, biomass or solar power, but it could also be a new product for our large-scale, centralized oil and nuclear power industries. Mike Nicklas, chairperson of the American Solar Energy Society (ACES), warns that even though the Bush administration is publicly supporting hydrogen development through its new FreedomCAR program, its vision does not support clean energy technologies for hydrogen production. 'Clean' in this case means coal, nuclear and natural gas, says Nicklas, who attended the federal National Hydrogen Energy Roadmap Workshop last April. Fossil fuel and nuclear industry representatives dominated the session on hydrogen production, Nicklas observes. We're now at the point of making a transition to an entirely new energy paradigm, and we don't need to be continuing the carbon era by other means. Nicklas says that ACES is working with other groups, including Worldwatch and the World Resources Institute, to promote truly renewable hydrogen generation. In what could be a parallel to its purchase of many solar companies, the oil industry is buying in to hydrogen: Shell established Shell Renewables in 1997 and Shell Hydrogen in 2000, BP/Amoco is investing $500 million in renewables over three years, and ChevronTexaco has purchased a 20 percent stake in Energy Conversion Devices, a Detroit-based photovoltaic, battery and fuel-cell company. Large utilities are also interested in generating hydrogen from what they call clean coal, coupled with a scheme to sequester, or isolate the resulting carbon dioxide emissions to prevent them from entering the atmosphere. According to one scenario, coal would react with steam and oxygen before combustion to produce hydrogen and carbon dioxide, with the carbon dioxide liquefied and stored underground in deep aquifers or other geological formations. Going Nuclear At the annual meeting of the World Nuclear Association in London last September, the group's director general, John Ritch, touted what he called the hydrogen-nuclear economy. He envisions an entirely clean energy global economy, with nuclear power supplying not only electricity and clean water, but also energizing transport of all kinds. There are 400 conventional nuclear plants in the world, generating a sixth of global electricity. While these plants produce no emissions of carbon dioxide, the major global warming gas, they have created an intractable radioactive waste crisis and an ongoing safety debate that has made it extremely difficult to license any new facilities. Some scientists see the need for large-scale hydrogen production as a way to jumpstart the moribund nuclear industry. Speaking at the International Youth Nuclear Congress in South Korea last April, Dr. Leon Walters, former director of engineering at Argonne National Laboratory, estimated that nuclear powernow just seven percent of U.S. power productioncould leap to 50 percent if it were harnessed to produce hydrogen for transportation. He estimates that a transition to a hydrogen-nuclear economy would take 30 years. General Atomics held a workshop last May on producing hydrogen from both conventional nuclear fission and as-yet unproven nuclear fusion. L.M. Wagner of Boeing said at the forum that hydrogen could be profitably produced in off-peak hours from fusion reactors. Nuclear fusion, if it were feasible, would produce no radioactive waste or bomb-grade materials, but no practical process for a fusion reactor has yet been demonstrated, despite hundreds of millions of dollars in funding over the past 50 years. Joan Ogden, a Princeton research scientist, says that the frontrunner for nuclear hydrogen production is a
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Environmentally Friendly Vehicle confab kicks off
I wonder if any of the Japanese or other major carmakers will have the audacity to feature any EVs at this conference, since they have gone well out of their to stop, and have succeeded in stopping, the making of any highway-capable EVs available to the American or other car-buying publics. Even now that Toyota has deliberately needlessly ended its popular RAV4 EV program, despite the fervent protests of many of the few hundred owners, I have seen a TV segment in which a Toyota spokesman, touting his company's Environmental Efforts, included mention of their company's EV efforts. I believe that EVs are being excluded from the roads, and from virtually all energy policy decision-making, partly because they have worked all too well, not because they haven't worked. MM http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nb20030124a6.htm The Japan Times Online Environmentally Friendly Vehicle confab kicks off The first International Meeting on Environmentally Friendly Vehicles opened Thursday in Tokyo as part of global efforts to develop greener vehicles and fight air pollution and global warming. Participants gathering for the two-day conference include representatives from the United States, China and the European Union as well as three international organizations. Major topics include how to harmonize regulations on emissions and fuel efficiency, proceed with technological development for common use, give users and automakers incentives through taxes and subsidies, and provide support for developing countries. Promising EFV candidates include fuel-cell vehicles, next-generation hybrid vehicles, electric vehicles and super-clean diesel vehicles. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] (fwd) Fuel-Road-Tax Ideas
Robert Mills, et. al.: This idea was put forth by Dave Goldstein, a leading EV advocate, on the EV1 email discussion forum. On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:03:44 -0800 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gas tax increase is an incentive for consumer purchases, but it is also a disincentive for government to advocate EVs. More gas tax might be appropriate, maybe to fund the war effort, but the consumer economic model is not the only issue, there is also the government economic model. Keep in mind the reality that eventually we need some sort of road use tax or fuel use tax for the EVs to fund the public works that make them useful (roads, public charging, etc). Keep in mind, however, that consumers already pay a considerable tax burden on their electricity purchases, and on a *btu basis,* electricity is more highly-taxed than gasoline! This strongly suggests that rather than *adding* to EV owners' tax burdens -- and creating an added *disincentive* for EVs -- a portion of *existing* electricity taxes should be reallocated for road use purposes, including charging infrastructure. Granted that EV and Grid-rechargeable hybrid users would use less energy per mile and therefore -- at least initially -- pay lower highway taxes, this is entirely consistent with the purpose of having tax incentives in the first place -- to promote the vital national and local goals of decreasing foreign oil consumption, greenhouse gases and ground level ozone. When EVs and GRHEVs begin to reach *critical mass* on our public highways -- which I would define as greater than 5 percent of the total number of highway vehicles in a given state or locale -- it would then be fitting and proper for legislators to review the question of tax incentives to determine whether or not additional taxes for EVs and GRHEVS are warranted. Regards, Dave Goldstein President, EVA/DC and Program Development Associates Washington, D.C. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Is Big Energy Hijacking Hydrogen?
Hi Todd Amazing how this lie is continually trotted out year after year. Where do these people think the energy comes from to mine, refine,transport and expend nuclear fuel? Um, the honest sweat of the CEO's brow? It's propaganda. To succeed all it needs is more public exposure over a longer period than the contrary evidence gets, not a big problem for these folks, and a lot easier than an honest argument (especially when you're wrong, you know it, and you don't care). Simply a matter of money. The exact same fossil fuel sources that are used to build the infrastructure to store the waste. Nuclear power is not CO2 free and obviously not clean. There are 400 conventional nuclear plants in the world, generating a sixth of global electricity. While these plants produce no emissions of carbon dioxide, the major global warming gas, Basically the same spin as BP's Greenwash award-winning Beyond Petroleum campaign for natural gas. they have created an intractable radioactive waste crisis and an ongoing safety debate that has made it extremely difficult to license any new facilities. Maybe a rekindled military program will help solve that problem, like it did during the Cold War. Keith Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 3:37 AM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Is Big Energy Hijacking Hydrogen? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14959 Is Big Energy Hijacking Hydrogen? By Jim Motavalli, E Magazine January 16, 2003 Whether or not hydrogen becomes the people's energy depends to a large extent on how it is generated and transported in the current, early stages of development. This sustainable gas can be generated locally via renewables like wind, biomass or solar power, but it could also be a new product for our large-scale, centralized oil and nuclear power industries. Mike Nicklas, chairperson of the American Solar Energy Society (ACES), warns that even though the Bush administration is publicly supporting hydrogen development through its new FreedomCAR program, its vision does not support clean energy technologies for hydrogen production. 'Clean' in this case means coal, nuclear and natural gas, says Nicklas, who attended the federal National Hydrogen Energy Roadmap Workshop last April. Fossil fuel and nuclear industry representatives dominated the session on hydrogen production, Nicklas observes. We're now at the point of making a transition to an entirely new energy paradigm, and we don't need to be continuing the carbon era by other means. Nicklas says that ACES is working with other groups, including Worldwatch and the World Resources Institute, to promote truly renewable hydrogen generation. In what could be a parallel to its purchase of many solar companies, the oil industry is buying in to hydrogen: Shell established Shell Renewables in 1997 and Shell Hydrogen in 2000, BP/Amoco is investing $500 million in renewables over three years, and ChevronTexaco has purchased a 20 percent stake in Energy Conversion Devices, a Detroit-based photovoltaic, battery and fuel-cell company. Large utilities are also interested in generating hydrogen from what they call clean coal, coupled with a scheme to sequester, or isolate the resulting carbon dioxide emissions to prevent them from entering the atmosphere. According to one scenario, coal would react with steam and oxygen before combustion to produce hydrogen and carbon dioxide, with the carbon dioxide liquefied and stored underground in deep aquifers or other geological formations. Going Nuclear At the annual meeting of the World Nuclear Association in London last September, the group's director general, John Ritch, touted what he called the hydrogen-nuclear economy. He envisions an entirely clean energy global economy, with nuclear power supplying not only electricity and clean water, but also energizing transport of all kinds. There are 400 conventional nuclear plants in the world, generating a sixth of global electricity. While these plants produce no emissions of carbon dioxide, the major global warming gas, they have created an intractable radioactive waste crisis and an ongoing safety debate that has made it extremely difficult to license any new facilities. Some scientists see the need for large-scale hydrogen production as a way to jumpstart the moribund nuclear industry. Speaking at the International Youth Nuclear Congress in South Korea last April, Dr. Leon Walters, former director of engineering at Argonne National Laboratory, estimated that nuclear powernow just seven percent of U.S. power productioncould leap to 50 percent if it were harnessed to produce hydrogen for transportation. He estimates that a transition to a hydrogen-nuclear economy would take 30 years.
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel using acid catalyst
Hi Filip, You are absolutely right! I am going through the learning curve and I used 30% ethanol to oil ratio. At the very beginning, I had tried with methanol and base catalyst (NaOH) and I also succeeded in getting good quality biodiesel. But, during my first review at college, my prof. said that I should try with ethanol as methanol is carcinogenic. So, I tried ethanol with base catalyst. Unfortunately, NaOH was not sufficiently soluble in ethanol and the process resulted only in soap formation (the whole mass solidified). This, I tried with different ratios of ethanol to oil and the result was the same. So, I switched over to acid catalyst. Moreover, I was considerably encouraged by some chemistry books which said that acid catalysts work faster than base catalysts. So, now, do you mean to say that whatever I suspected as biodiesel with ethanol+acid catalyst is not biodiesel at all? Is it just a blend of ethanol with oil? Will I get into trouble if I use it in the engine? If yes, what sort of problems would I have to face? How can I go about with acid-base catalysis as the base seems to be sparingly soluble in ethanol? Kindly help me! Kavitha. filip.ponsaerts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kavitha,
[biofuel] Is Big Energy Hijacking Hydrogen?
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14959 Is Big Energy Hijacking Hydrogen? By Jim Motavalli, E Magazine January 16, 2003 Whether or not hydrogen becomes the people's energy depends to a large extent on how it is generated and transported in the current, early stages of development. This sustainable gas can be generated locally via renewables like wind, biomass or solar power, but it could also be a new product for our large-scale, centralized oil and nuclear power industries. Mike Nicklas, chairperson of the American Solar Energy Society (ACES), warns that even though the Bush administration is publicly supporting hydrogen development through its new FreedomCAR program, its vision does not support clean energy technologies for hydrogen production. 'Clean' in this case means coal, nuclear and natural gas, says Nicklas, who attended the federal National Hydrogen Energy Roadmap Workshop last April. Fossil fuel and nuclear industry representatives dominated the session on hydrogen production, Nicklas observes. We're now at the point of making a transition to an entirely new energy paradigm, and we don't need to be continuing the carbon era by other means. Nicklas says that ACES is working with other groups, including Worldwatch and the World Resources Institute, to promote truly renewable hydrogen generation. In what could be a parallel to its purchase of many solar companies, the oil industry is buying in to hydrogen: Shell established Shell Renewables in 1997 and Shell Hydrogen in 2000, BP/Amoco is investing $500 million in renewables over three years, and ChevronTexaco has purchased a 20 percent stake in Energy Conversion Devices, a Detroit-based photovoltaic, battery and fuel-cell company. Large utilities are also interested in generating hydrogen from what they call clean coal, coupled with a scheme to sequester, or isolate the resulting carbon dioxide emissions to prevent them from entering the atmosphere. According to one scenario, coal would react with steam and oxygen before combustion to produce hydrogen and carbon dioxide, with the carbon dioxide liquefied and stored underground in deep aquifers or other geological formations. Going Nuclear At the annual meeting of the World Nuclear Association in London last September, the group's director general, John Ritch, touted what he called the hydrogen-nuclear economy. He envisions an entirely clean energy global economy, with nuclear power supplying not only electricity and clean water, but also energizing transport of all kinds. There are 400 conventional nuclear plants in the world, generating a sixth of global electricity. While these plants produce no emissions of carbon dioxide, the major global warming gas, they have created an intractable radioactive waste crisis and an ongoing safety debate that has made it extremely difficult to license any new facilities. Some scientists see the need for large-scale hydrogen production as a way to jumpstart the moribund nuclear industry. Speaking at the International Youth Nuclear Congress in South Korea last April, Dr. Leon Walters, former director of engineering at Argonne National Laboratory, estimated that nuclear powernow just seven percent of U.S. power productioncould leap to 50 percent if it were harnessed to produce hydrogen for transportation. He estimates that a transition to a hydrogen-nuclear economy would take 30 years. General Atomics held a workshop last May on producing hydrogen from both conventional nuclear fission and as-yet unproven nuclear fusion. L.M. Wagner of Boeing said at the forum that hydrogen could be profitably produced in off-peak hours from fusion reactors. Nuclear fusion, if it were feasible, would produce no radioactive waste or bomb-grade materials, but no practical process for a fusion reactor has yet been demonstrated, despite hundreds of millions of dollars in funding over the past 50 years. Joan Ogden, a Princeton research scientist, says that the frontrunner for nuclear hydrogen production is a thermochemical heat process. This is a difficult technology that is much further from commercialization than many other hydrogen production options, Ogden says. A recent analysis by Ogden's Princeton colleague, Robert Williams, found that thermochemical nuclear hydrogen would be an expensive and complicated procedure when compared to other methods. Environmentalists have reacted with dismay to the attempt to nuclearize hydrogen production. Nuclear-generated hydrogen is like a nicotine patch that causes cancer, says Dan Becker, energy program director for the Sierra Club. This certainly explains one level of the Bush administration's sudden interest. But if we're looking to hydrogen to free us from old forms of energy, why would we suddenly go nuclear, with all the well-known problems? The federal Roadmap workshop that Nicklas attended did indeed give a prominent role to nuclear-generated
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel using acid catalyst
Hi Filip, You are absolutely right! I am going through the learning curve and I used 30% ethanol to oil ratio. At the very beginning, I had tried with methanol and base catalyst (NaOH) and I also succeeded in getting good quality biodiesel. But, during my first review at college, my prof. said that I should try with ethanol as methanol is carcinogenic. I think you should get another professor. He seems to be a professor of not very much. Health effects: Methanol can cause permanent blindness when breathed, ingested, or passed through the skin. Exposure to high concentrations can cause death. A coma resulting from massive exposures may last as long as two to four days. Because of the slowness with which it is eliminated by the human body, methanol should be regarded as a cumulative poison. Exposure can damage the liver and cause headaches, cardiac depression, nausea, vomiting, blurred vision, dizziness, a feeling of intoxication, and irritations of the eyes, nose, mouth, and throat. Repeated or prolonged contact can cause dryness and cracking of the skin. http://www.nsc.org/library/chemical/methanol.htm Nothing about carcinogenic. Health Hazards Acute Chronic: ACUTE: POISONING, HEADACHE, NAUSEA, BLINDNESS. Carcenogenicity Indicators NTP: NO IARC: NO OSHA: NO http://msds.pdc.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a390/m194545.htm METHANOL Not carcinogenic. So, I tried ethanol with base catalyst. Unfortunately, NaOH was not sufficiently soluble in ethanol and the process resulted only in soap formation (the whole mass solidified). I gave you this reference before, didn't you read it? 2. Try to find a source of KOH (potassium hydroxide) to use instead of lye with ethanol. Lye (NaOH, sodium hydroxide) will work, but it dissolves VERY slowly in ethanol. You'll need to use more of either one -- 7g per liter of clean oil with NaOH, 10g per liter of clean oil with KOH. More as required per your titration level. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html#ethylester This, I tried with different ratios of ethanol to oil and the result was the same. So, I switched over to acid catalyst. Moreover, I was considerably encouraged by some chemistry books which said that acid catalysts work faster than base catalysts. I think you've been misled. So, now, do you mean to say that whatever I suspected as biodiesel with ethanol+acid catalyst is not biodiesel at all? Not biodiesel. Is it just a blend of ethanol with oil? With partly reacted oil. Will I get into trouble if I use it in the engine? If yes, what sort of problems would I have to face? I wouldn't be too happy about the acid catalyst still in it (what acid did you use, and how much?), but maybe you can try it, if you can neutralize the acid somehow. It's perhaps not too different from straight vegetable oil studies (not biodiesel) that found a blend of 9% ethanol was an improvement; you'd need to pre-heat it then to reduce viscosity, but maybe the amount of ethanol in it would make that unnecessary. However, you'd be on your own, and whatever results you got would be short-term and thus inconclusive (unless you want to make a few thousand gallons of that stuff) and not be relevant to your biodiesel studies. Best abandon it - write it off to the learning curve. How can I go about with acid-base catalysis as the base seems to be sparingly soluble in ethanol? Kindly help me! Use KOH. But you're starting in the wrong place, please see my previous message: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=20555list=BIOFUEL I don't understand why you're floundering in the dark when so much good information is available and has been offered to you. Keith Kavitha. filip.ponsaerts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kavitha, From your mail above, I suspect you are just going through the learning curve, just as I did recently (and still are) 1) Two layers, top with properties of ethanol, lower as biodiesel I suspect you used +25% ethanol to oil ratio... You have most likely the undisolved ethanol on top, with some components of the oil still dissolved, hence the color. The oil layer will be saturated with some dissolved ethanol, which gives the oil some properties like biodiesel (e.g. viscosity) 2) Ethanol is much more difficult to work with. Take it from me, and I'm sure, the rest of the people on this forum... start with methanol until you got this up and running. 3)If I understand correctly you are ONLY using acid. Acid transesterification is VERY slow, and hard to get above 50-65% yield. Read in the chemistry books... good for labs, but for industrial use, you would need +200 degrees celsius and high pressure to get higher yield in reasonable time. Look for acid-base, or base only scenarios, certainly to start with. Regards, Filip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Space shuttle
Not to belittle what has happened, but a little something to put the shuttle incident into context http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/02/02/1044122251403.html Regards, Andrew Lowe On 2 Feb 2003 at 0:02, Hakan Falk wrote: This is a very very sad day. Hakan ** If you want to take a look on a project that is very close to my heart, go to: http://energysavingnow.com/ http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site ** A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. -- Dresden James No flag is large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people -- Howard Zinn Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul. - Unknown Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] $2.60 for recharging and the French aircar runs 120 miles
Mexican government bought 40,000 French Air Taxi and going to be delivered in couple years. We will have to go to Mexico City to try out the Air Taxi. Suggested Retail $14,000(Euro 9500), runs 60MPH, range 120 miles. Charge at station $3 per charge and takes 3 minutes(If we had these infra-structure available) Charge at home with a small electric air compressor takes 4 hours, take 20 KWH of electricity. S.C.Edison is charging 13 cents per KWH, then the cost to charge at home will be $2.60 And spending $2.60 and I can run 120 miles??? This must be a dream? Anyone who knows the price of the small home use air compressor? The price for Air car already included an on-board 5.5KW compressor to compress air into the tanks! Happy to know there are about 50 companies want to buy franchises or manufacturing facilities. Hope more air cars will be available, personally I will like to take the Family 6 seater! Also will see how much they will tax for using AIR, if any! It's not 100% green, unless the energy to compress air comes from biomass/solar or wind. Power plant still using 70% or so fossil oil to generate power! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] $2.60 for recharging and the French aircar runs 120 miles
On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:56, you wrote: Mexican government bought 40,000 French Air Taxi and going to be delivered in couple years. We will have to go to Mexico City to try out the Air Taxi. Suggested Retail $14,000(Euro 9500), runs 60MPH, range 120 miles. Charge at station $3 per charge and takes 3 minutes(If we had these infra-structure available) Charge at home with a small electric air compressor takes 4 hours, take 20 KWH of electricity. S.C.Edison is charging 13 cents per KWH, then the cost to charge at home will be $2.60 And spending $2.60 and I can run 120 miles??? This must be a dream? Anyone who knows the price of the small home use air compressor? The price for Air car already included an on-board 5.5KW compressor to compress air into the tanks! Happy to know there are about 50 companies want to buy franchises or manufacturing facilities. Hope more air cars will be available, personally I will like to take the Family 6 seater! Also will see how much they will tax for using AIR, if any! It's not 100% green, unless the energy to compress air comes from biomass/solar or wind. Power plant still using 70% or so fossil oil to generate power! Remember that the compressor will be a multi stage one (like is used to fill Scuba tanks). These are a lot slower than a normal compressor. Doug Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Babington Vegetable Oil Burner Updates
New changes, new pictures. Cleaner Burning, Higher output. No smoke, no carbon buildup. Heat your house, garage, or hot water. Even make a steam generator from new or used vegetable oil. http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/babington Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] High Tech Cars
The February issue of the IEEE Spectrum ( that's Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers) cover story is on the Top 10 Techno-Cool Cars. Of interest to people her are two Honda models. The Civic GX runs on natural gas and includes a home refuelling station. The Honda FCX is fuel cell powered and uses ultracapacitors instead of batteries. The Fiat Stilo is diesel powered with a particulate filter to reduce emissions.The Toyota Prius is also on the list. You don't have to be an IEEE member to get the magazine, as I have seen it on the rack in Border's among other places. Glenn Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] More on acrylamide
See archives for previous. Keith http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2702241.stm BBC NEWS | Health | Wednesday, 29 January, 2003, 10:29 GMT Food chemical cleared of cancer link Chips are among the foods containing acrylamide High levels of a chemical found in foods such as chips, crisps and bread do not, as feared, seem to raise the risk of cancer, research suggests. Research in the past year has shown that many types of cooked food contained moderately high levels of a chemical called acrylamide, which is considered to be potentially carcinogenic. This study provides preliminary evidence that there's less to worry about than was thought Dr Lorelei Mucci Acrylamide appears to form as a result of a reaction at high temperatures between specific sugars and other chemicals found in food. But scientists from the US and Sweden found that dietary levels of acrylamide do not seem to be sufficient to increase the risk of large bowel, bladder and kidney cancers - the forms of the disease likely to be affected. Researchers studied the diets of 987 cancer patients and 538 healthy people, in order to see if there was any link between the amount of high-acrylamide food eaten and risk of the disease. Each person in the study filled out a detailed questionnaire, listing how often they ate a total of 188 different types of food. These included some - such as crisps, french fries, fried potatoes, bread and biscuits - which contain high to medium levels of acrylamide. Scientists calculated overall levels of the chemical in each individual's diet. Possible risk Lead researcher Dr Lorelei Mucci, of the Harvard School of Public Health, said: The discovery last year that many types of food contained high levels of acrylamide was disturbing, since acrylamide is classified as a probable carcinogen. It's therefore reassuring that the levels of acrylamide that individuals are generally exposed to through food do not appear to increase the risk of these cancers. There remain several food items whose acrylamide levels are not known, so there is still a chance that extremely high levels of the chemical could contribute to cancer risk. Plus acrylamide increases the risk of certain neurological conditions and there are currently no data looking at the intake of acrylamide-rich foods and these diseases. Overall, though, this study provides preliminary evidence that there's less to worry about than was thought. Other factors Researchers took into account a number of other factors which affect cancer risk, most importantly smoking, which is itself a major source of acrylamide and many other proven carcinogens. There was no relationship between dietary acrylamide and the risk of bladder or kidney cancer. But high amounts of acrylamide were associated with reduced risk of bowel cancer, although this may be because the foods high in acrylamide are also rich in other factors, such as fibre, that may reduce the risk of the disease. Sir Paul Nurse, chief executive of Cancer Research UK, said: We know that acrylamide can be carcinogenic to animals, but this study suggests that either levels in food are too low to affect cancer risk, or that the body is able to deactivate the chemical in some way. The research is published in the British Journal of Cancer. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Africa 'turns from leaded petrol'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2689209.stm BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Friday, 24 January, 2003, 12:03 GMT Africa 'turns from leaded petrol' By Alex Kirby BBC News Online environment correspondent In a move which promises significant gains for public health, most of Africa is expected to change soon to unleaded petrol. The United Nations Environment Programme (Unep) says the end of leaded fuel in Africa is in sight. By 2008, it thinks, most of the continent will have made the move, or be close to doing so. It is working with countries across Africa to hasten the change. Unep says about 90% of global petrol supplies are now unleaded, with most of the remaining 10% burnt in developing countries. It says Egypt, Libya, Sudan and Mauritius have already phased out leaded fuel. Another 22 countries either have action plans to abandon it by 2005-6, or are drawing them up, it says. Setting an example They include South Africa, Nigeria, Ghana, Togo, Kenya, Uganda and Eritrea. This year, Unep says, Morocco, Reunion, Tunisia and Western Sahara are expected to join them. Lead damages young brains Unep, which is based in Nairobi, the Kenyan capital, is stopping the sale of leaded fuel at the filling station at its HQ there. Dr Klaus Toepfer, Unep's executive director, said: It has been known for many years that lead in petrol is a serious health risk, particularly to children. Studies have demonstrated that children living near roads and in urban areas where leaded petrol is used can suffer brain damage, with symptoms including lower intelligence scores. Dr Toepfer said that was why leaded petrol had been phased out across most of the world. Summit thanks He said: Much of Africa, mainly for technological reasons, a lack of awareness of the health risks, and misconceptions about the impact of unleaded fuels on engines, has lagged behind. Africa is switching fast to unleaded fuel However, partly because of work already under way and the new impetus from the global Partnership for Clean Fuels and Vehicles, the situation is rapidly changing, and a lead-free Africa is in sight. This is one of the first concrete outcomes of the World Summit on Sustainable Development (WSSD) held six months ago in South Africa. The voluntary initiative, a so-called Type II project, was born there with funding and support from governments, the private sector including the oil and automobile industries, civil society and international organizations like Unep. No worries Rob de Jong, Unep's urban environment programme officer, said: Many people who drive older cars are convinced they will suffer engine damage if they fill up with unleaded fuel. But this really is not the case. Only under the extreme conditions of a laboratory test can effects be seen. In the real world, under normal motoring conditions prevailing in Africa, unleaded petrol works as well if not better in most if not all vehicles. The WSSD called for a rapid phasing-out of leaded petrol across the world. Many countries are intent on achieving the goal by 2005. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Environmentally Friendly Vehicle confab kicks off
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nb20030124a6.htm The Japan Times Online Environmentally Friendly Vehicle confab kicks off The first International Meeting on Environmentally Friendly Vehicles opened Thursday in Tokyo as part of global efforts to develop greener vehicles and fight air pollution and global warming. Participants gathering for the two-day conference include representatives from the United States, China and the European Union as well as three international organizations. Major topics include how to harmonize regulations on emissions and fuel efficiency, proceed with technological development for common use, give users and automakers incentives through taxes and subsidies, and provide support for developing countries. Promising EFV candidates include fuel-cell vehicles, next-generation hybrid vehicles, electric vehicles and super-clean diesel vehicles. Japan is hoping participants will be able to come up with concrete numerical targets on fuel efficiency and emission cuts for such vehicles. A senior government official, however, said reaching a consensus may be difficult as opinions vary among representatives. Participants include Japan, Canada, Australia, South Korea, Singapore and the Asian Development Bank. Vice transport minister Gotaro Yoshimura said in an opening address that the meeting provides a good opportunity for comprehensive discussions at a time when the world faces serious climate change and air pollution problems. The meeting was initially proposed at a gathering of transport ministers a year ago. The Japan Times: Jan. 24, 2003 (C) All rights reserved Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Intro and question
Hi Y'all, I have been monitoring this list for awhile and although I am totally excited about biofule I must admit that I have never actually done it. I did try to start a car charing organization in Yolo Co CA a few years ago but couldn't get the needed resourses togethernamely people power. Here is my questionI am an auctioneer and work at car auctions for the $$$ (I specialize in benefit auctions). Being such I have friends that are dealers that are happy to buy wholesale for me. Occaionally I see a nice TDI or some other diesel product role by. I often think to my self and say self you should have X buy that for you and then post it on the list here. Would y'all consider that SPAM? Best, Jack Young www.jacksauctions.com 530.219.7900 (voice) 530.795.5536 (fax) Well, folks? Would we consider Jack's offer as SPAM? I have an idea there's a place for this, only I can't remember where it is. Didn't somebody post some such thing (me maybe)? Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] $2.60 for recharging and the French aircar runs 120 miles
You believe 20KwH will propel you and a vehicle 120 miles? Perhaps on a perfectly level and smooth surface at less than 10mph. They are indulging in specmanship I fear. When you take away the losses of the compressor it is more fantastic. :( Kirk -Original Message- From: Tricia Liu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 3:57 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] $2.60 for recharging and the French aircar runs 120 miles Mexican government bought 40,000 French Air Taxi and going to be delivered in couple years. We will have to go to Mexico City to try out the Air Taxi. Suggested Retail $14,000(Euro 9500), runs 60MPH, range 120 miles. Charge at station $3 per charge and takes 3 minutes(If we had these infra-structure available) Charge at home with a small electric air compressor takes 4 hours, take 20 KWH of electricity. S.C.Edison is charging 13 cents per KWH, then the cost to charge at home will be $2.60 And spending $2.60 and I can run 120 miles??? This must be a dream? Anyone who knows the price of the small home use air compressor? The price for Air car already included an on-board 5.5KW compressor to compress air into the tanks! Happy to know there are about 50 companies want to buy franchises or manufacturing facilities. Hope more air cars will be available, personally I will like to take the Family 6 seater! Also will see how much they will tax for using AIR, if any! It's not 100% green, unless the energy to compress air comes from biomass/solar or wind. Power plant still using 70% or so fossil oil to generate power! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Intro and question
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Best, Jack Young www.jacksauctions.com 530.219.7900 (voice) 530.795.5536 (fax) Well, folks? Would we consider Jack's offer as SPAM? I have an idea there's a place for this, only I can't remember where it is. Didn't somebody post some such thing (me maybe)? Keith I would say it wasn't spam, it was directed directly at this list. The TDI's are holding the value and driving 2000 miles for a deal would not be uncommon. I don't think he would interrupt too much. But maybe you would prefer one to go to the maybe board?? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Intro and question
k5farms wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Best, Jack Young www.jacksauctions.com 530.219.7900 (voice) 530.795.5536 (fax) Well, folks? Would we consider Jack's offer as SPAM? I have an idea there's a place for this, only I can't remember where it is. Didn't somebody post some such thing (me maybe)? Keith I would say it wasn't spam, it was directed directly at this list. The TDI's are holding the value and driving 2000 miles for a deal would not be uncommon. I don't think he would interrupt too much. But maybe you would prefer one to go to the maybe board?? No, I don't really have an opinion - if US members think it would be useful and others wouldn't object, then let's say yes please. Regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question
depends on who benefits. Jack, or various others. He could list them at his website, and we could go their if we needed one. It really only benefits folks in the CA area. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 1:15 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question k5farms wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Best, Jack Young www.jacksauctions.com 530.219.7900 (voice) 530.795.5536 (fax) Well, folks? Would we consider Jack's offer as SPAM? I have an idea there's a place for this, only I can't remember where it is. Didn't somebody post some such thing (me maybe)? Keith I would say it wasn't spam, it was directed directly at this list. The TDI's are holding the value and driving 2000 miles for a deal would not be uncommon. I don't think he would interrupt too much. But maybe you would prefer one to go to the maybe board?? No, I don't really have an opinion - if US members think it would be useful and others wouldn't object, then let's say yes please. Regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] cometition in alt fuels
I don't think the obstacle is technology. The products in our world are profit driven. Engineers don't decide what we will have. They may tell costs versus products but the path taken is decided by others. The current implementation of electricity is testament to that. What will speak louder than anything is if customers escape the monopoly. If you can persuade others to incorporate renewable energy, to use more efficient methods -- that speaks the only language corporate hears -- $$$. Kirk Well, I sort of agree and sort of disagree. I think this is central to everything I've tried to follow for the last decade or so with respect to the alt-energy industry and alt-fuel efforts: If only the competitive profit-driven markets were working properly and well. I think one could make the claim that they've been functioning, if in a somewhat broken manner, with respect to the intertwined car-fuel industries, if one is thinking in a somewhat illegitimate sense: if it's true than in a capitalistic system with ebbs and flows and cycles to different business propositions, sometimes a very successful technology and business paradigm (e.g. cars and petrole) will become so powerful that it is able to influence ongoing national and even worldwide public perception and governmental policy to the point where the public and the government perceive, incorrectly, that free competition is taking place, that property rights are being protected, that the profit motive is still in place and able to function. That said, in some twisted sense, yes, I agree, the auto and oil companies are arguably acting out of profit motive. If an auto company perceives that it is 3rd (or whatever) worldwide in the pecking order, and in collusion with the others it perceives a massive worldwide period of technological free-for-all could leave it 50th, and if it perceives that its costs of stranded assets will be in the hundreds of billions of dollars, then I guess you could make the argument that this is a reason for all the dishonesty, the failure to really try to make and sell a new technology (while keeping up a grand pretext of trying to do so), etc. Just a hypothesis. So, in that sense, there is the profit motive, though twisted. They'll say the profit motive is working in the sense that they've tried and failed to be able to sell an alt-fuel vehicle because of lack of demand or lack of fuel availability or lack of affordability yet of the technology, but these particular profit-motive claims are often outright lies. Does this invalidate looking for the profit motive? No. It just means that it's a bit more of a twisted path than we'd like to have to take to understand what they're doing. Meanwhile the profit-motive itself gets a bad name, in a way, because folks perceive there is something awry with the reasoning they're hearing, while they're being told that their demand does not exist and that they aren't interested in the cars they're interested in... But what's wrong with a company seeking to make a profit? Nothing, inherently, that I'm aware. I wish, though, that they'd perceive the way to do this is to build products that folks want to buy mid-term, and that they can afford to build and that will give them a future place in the industry, rather than just making the cars people want 2 seconds from now but not 2 years from now, while lying to those few in the nascient movements to demand different cars. As for the fuel industry, they're so dominant they can help keep down the potential competition, the electric utilities and, to some extent, nascient efforts to synthesize fuels such as from bioproducts using such mechanisms and excuses as tax laws. Well, just some ideas. I don't know if I believe everything I've written, but I don't want to spend all day on this and it's a hard topic. MM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question
I think one of the previous posts correctly pointed out that people may be willing to travel some distance to get a good buy on diesel cars and many others would benefit from the price information to use as value points in their local market where a dealer may not have a clear idea of the true value of a given car or truck and be over pricing it just because they do not deal with very many. That said a simple listing as each car or truck becomes available with basic details and a price would not take any more time than, he says as politely as possible, some of the other trivia we see each week on this list, much of which is at least entertaining. It would be good if there was a web page to go to for a complete listing of what has sold and what is available with the prices and full details, perhaps even pictures similar to what we may see on ebay. When in the states I live in Oregon and would be pleased to fly to California to get a good deal on a diesel car. Have a good day. Vern Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question
Vern_Hendershott wrote: I think one of the previous posts correctly pointed out that people may be willing to travel some distance to get a good buy on diesel cars and many others would benefit from the price information to use as value points in their local market where a dealer may not have a clear idea of the true value of a given car or truck and be over pricing it just because they do not deal with very many. For people in the US perhaps, but of no interest for other list members, perhaps the majority. But I'd guess they wouldn't mind. That said a simple listing as each car or truck becomes available with basic details and a price would not take any more time than, he says as politely as possible, some of the other trivia we see each week on this list, much of which is at least entertaining. I don't think he said any such thing, whether politely or not. If you want to say it, why not do so instead of trying to put the words into someone else's mouth? This list is low on trivia - all that means is stuff I don't agree with, and said in a very patronising way. It would be good if there was a web page to go to for a complete listing of what has sold and what is available with the prices and full details, perhaps even pictures similar to what we may see on ebay. That wasn't offered. Are you volunteering? When in the states I live in Oregon and would be pleased to fly to California to get a good deal on a diesel car. Thankyou. Keith Have a good day. Vern Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Intro and question
Not me personaly, but, I'm finaly buying a house. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 09:04 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Intro and question Hi Y'all, I have been monitoring this list for awhile and although I am totally excited about biofule I must admit that I have never actually done it. I did try to start a car charing organization in Yolo Co CA a few years ago but couldn't get the needed resourses togethernamely people power. Here is my questionI am an auctioneer and work at car auctions for the $$$ (I specialize in benefit auctions). Being such I have friends that are dealers that are happy to buy wholesale for me. Occaionally I see a nice TDI or some other diesel product role by. I often think to my self and say self you should have X buy that for you and then post it on the list here. Would y'all consider that SPAM? Best, Jack Young www.jacksauctions.com 530.219.7900 (voice) 530.795.5536 (fax) Well, folks? Would we consider Jack's offer as SPAM? I have an idea there's a place for this, only I can't remember where it is. Didn't somebody post some such thing (me maybe)? Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question
I wouldn't say that, I went all the way to Canada to get my '85 BJ60 Land Cruiser. Califorina may not be closer, but, for the most part you don't have to deal with U.S. Customs or all the funkey forms to bring a vehical back. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 11:26 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question depends on who benefits. Jack, or various others. He could list them at his website, and we could go their if we needed one. It really only benefits folks in the CA area. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question
I live in Montana. I heard a fellow in the next town took the bus to California to pick up a vehicle he bought on Ebay. He evidently thought the hassle was worth it. Kirk -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 11:27 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question depends on who benefits. Jack, or various others. He could list them at his website, and we could go their if we needed one. It really only benefits folks in the CA area. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 1:15 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question k5farms wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Best, Jack Young www.jacksauctions.com 530.219.7900 (voice) 530.795.5536 (fax) Well, folks? Would we consider Jack's offer as SPAM? I have an idea there's a place for this, only I can't remember where it is. Didn't somebody post some such thing (me maybe)? Keith I would say it wasn't spam, it was directed directly at this list. The TDI's are holding the value and driving 2000 miles for a deal would not be uncommon. I don't think he would interrupt too much. But maybe you would prefer one to go to the maybe board?? No, I don't really have an opinion - if US members think it would be useful and others wouldn't object, then let's say yes please. Regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel using acid catalyst
Kavitha, You will have no visibly discernable biodiesel after conducting the acid side of an acid/base catlysis. The ethyl or methyl esters will remain homogenously mixed with the glycerides. Acid catalysis in this particular reaction, although the best method for converting free fatty acids to esters, is an extremely slow reaction in comparison to base catalysis with glycerides. Thus the call for both acid and base stages - the best of both worlds and a higher total yield. Once you complete the acid side of the process you need to continue with the base side. Only then will you have the ethyl ester that you are looking for. Both NaOH and KOH will dissolve in ethanol, although not as quickly as you might wish. You'll have to develop a method that meets your time constraints - that, or change your time constraints. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: kavitha palaniappan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 2:35 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel using acid catalyst Hi Filip, You are absolutely right! I am going through the learning curve and I used 30% ethanol to oil ratio. At the very beginning, I had tried with methanol and base catalyst (NaOH) and I also succeeded in getting good quality biodiesel. But, during my first review at college, my prof. said that I should try with ethanol as methanol is carcinogenic. So, I tried ethanol with base catalyst. Unfortunately, NaOH was not sufficiently soluble in ethanol and the process resulted only in soap formation (the whole mass solidified). This, I tried with different ratios of ethanol to oil and the result was the same. So, I switched over to acid catalyst. Moreover, I was considerably encouraged by some chemistry books which said that acid catalysts work faster than base catalysts. So, now, do you mean to say that whatever I suspected as biodiesel with ethanol+acid catalyst is not biodiesel at all? Is it just a blend of ethanol with oil? Will I get into trouble if I use it in the engine? If yes, what sort of problems would I have to face? How can I go about with acid-base catalysis as the base seems to be sparingly soluble in ethanol? Kindly help me! Kavitha. filip.ponsaerts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kavitha, From your mail above, I suspect you are just going through the learning curve, just as I did recently (and still are) 1) Two layers, top with properties of ethanol, lower as biodiesel I suspect you used +25% ethanol to oil ratio... You have most likely the undisolved ethanol on top, with some components of the oil still dissolved, hence the color. The oil layer will be saturated with some dissolved ethanol, which gives the oil some properties like biodiesel (e.g. viscosity) 2) Ethanol is much more difficult to work with. Take it from me, and I'm sure, the rest of the people on this forum... start with methanol until you got this up and running. 3)If I understand correctly you are ONLY using acid. Acid transesterification is VERY slow, and hard to get above 50-65% yield. Read in the chemistry books... good for labs, but for industrial use, you would need +200 degrees celsius and high pressure to get higher yield in reasonable time. Look for acid-base, or base only scenarios, certainly to start with. Regards, Filip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question
I guess my main point is, if he wants to sell these vehicles, he should list them on his site, not in the group. But that's my opinion, not trying to set policy. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 3:46 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question I live in Montana. I heard a fellow in the next town took the bus to California to pick up a vehicle he bought on Ebay. He evidently thought the hassle was worth it. Kirk -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 11:27 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question depends on who benefits. Jack, or various others. He could list them at his website, and we could go their if we needed one. It really only benefits folks in the CA area. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 1:15 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question k5farms wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Best, Jack Young www.jacksauctions.com 530.219.7900 (voice) 530.795.5536 (fax) Well, folks? Would we consider Jack's offer as SPAM? I have an idea there's a place for this, only I can't remember where it is. Didn't somebody post some such thing (me maybe)? Keith I would say it wasn't spam, it was directed directly at this list. The TDI's are holding the value and driving 2000 miles for a deal would not be uncommon. I don't think he would interrupt too much. But maybe you would prefer one to go to the maybe board?? No, I don't really have an opinion - if US members think it would be useful and others wouldn't object, then let's say yes please. Regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Environmentally Friendly Vehicle confab kicks off
I wonder if any of the Japanese or other major carmakers will have the audacity to feature any EVs at this conference, since they have gone well out of their to stop, and have succeeded in stopping, the making of any highway-capable EVs available to the American or other car-buying publics. Even now that Toyota has deliberately needlessly ended its popular RAV4 EV program, despite the fervent protests of many of the few hundred owners, I have seen a TV segment in which a Toyota spokesman, touting his company's Environmental Efforts, included mention of their company's EV efforts. I believe that EVs are being excluded from the roads, and from virtually all energy policy decision-making, partly because they have worked all too well, not because they haven't worked. MM http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nb20030124a6.htm The Japan Times Online Environmentally Friendly Vehicle confab kicks off The first International Meeting on Environmentally Friendly Vehicles opened Thursday in Tokyo as part of global efforts to develop greener vehicles and fight air pollution and global warming. Participants gathering for the two-day conference include representatives from the United States, China and the European Union as well as three international organizations. Major topics include how to harmonize regulations on emissions and fuel efficiency, proceed with technological development for common use, give users and automakers incentives through taxes and subsidies, and provide support for developing countries. Promising EFV candidates include fuel-cell vehicles, next-generation hybrid vehicles, electric vehicles and super-clean diesel vehicles. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Status quo
Hi all, My sincerest congratulations to any, however few, who start to question the status quo. if those few could just convince two others, those converts convince just two more each. if we could keep the momentum up, we might all have a chance to see our children their children grow prosper in a world joined in peace fellowship. Regards, Tony. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] More on acrylamide - Question
We are having some lab testing done this week and Im confused... I thought earlier posts warned us against acrolein, not acrylamide. Are these separate compounds? Do we need to test for both? Craig - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 10:04 AM Subject: [biofuel] More on acrylamide See archives for previous. Keith http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2702241.stm BBC NEWS | Health | Wednesday, 29 January, 2003, 10:29 GMT Food chemical cleared of cancer link Chips are among the foods containing acrylamide High levels of a chemical found in foods such as chips, crisps and bread do not, as feared, seem to raise the risk of cancer, research suggests. Research in the past year has shown that many types of cooked food contained moderately high levels of a chemical called acrylamide, which is considered to be potentially carcinogenic. This study provides preliminary evidence that there's less to worry about than was thought Dr Lorelei Mucci Acrylamide appears to form as a result of a reaction at high temperatures between specific sugars and other chemicals found in food. But scientists from the US and Sweden found that dietary levels of acrylamide do not seem to be sufficient to increase the risk of large bowel, bladder and kidney cancers - the forms of the disease likely to be affected. Researchers studied the diets of 987 cancer patients and 538 healthy people, in order to see if there was any link between the amount of high-acrylamide food eaten and risk of the disease. Each person in the study filled out a detailed questionnaire, listing how often they ate a total of 188 different types of food. These included some - such as crisps, french fries, fried potatoes, bread and biscuits - which contain high to medium levels of acrylamide. Scientists calculated overall levels of the chemical in each individual's diet. Possible risk Lead researcher Dr Lorelei Mucci, of the Harvard School of Public Health, said: The discovery last year that many types of food contained high levels of acrylamide was disturbing, since acrylamide is classified as a probable carcinogen. It's therefore reassuring that the levels of acrylamide that individuals are generally exposed to through food do not appear to increase the risk of these cancers. There remain several food items whose acrylamide levels are not known, so there is still a chance that extremely high levels of the chemical could contribute to cancer risk. Plus acrylamide increases the risk of certain neurological conditions and there are currently no data looking at the intake of acrylamide-rich foods and these diseases. Overall, though, this study provides preliminary evidence that there's less to worry about than was thought. Other factors Researchers took into account a number of other factors which affect cancer risk, most importantly smoking, which is itself a major source of acrylamide and many other proven carcinogens. There was no relationship between dietary acrylamide and the risk of bladder or kidney cancer. But high amounts of acrylamide were associated with reduced risk of bowel cancer, although this may be because the foods high in acrylamide are also rich in other factors, such as fibre, that may reduce the risk of the disease. Sir Paul Nurse, chief executive of Cancer Research UK, said: We know that acrylamide can be carcinogenic to animals, but this study suggests that either levels in food are too low to affect cancer risk, or that the body is able to deactivate the chemical in some way. The research is published in the British Journal of Cancer. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question
It seems to me that anyone buying a car on this list, would buy it to run on biofuel and that can only help the cause. In my opinion, capitalism with a conscience is the best form of economics available. kris --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: k5farms wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Best, Jack Young www.jacksauctions.com 530.219.7900 (voice) 530.795.5536 (fax) Well, folks? Would we consider Jack's offer as SPAM? I have an idea there's a place for this, only I can't remember where it is. Didn't somebody post some such thing (me maybe)? Keith I would say it wasn't spam, it was directed directly at this list. The TDI's are holding the value and driving 2000 miles for a deal would not be uncommon. I don't think he would interrupt too much. But maybe you would prefer one to go to the maybe board?? No, I don't really have an opinion - if US members think it would be useful and others wouldn't object, then let's say yes please. Regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Intro and question
www.tdiclub.com is the right place for this, there is a classified section where dealers routinely report on their current stock of TDIs. -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 9:05 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Intro and question Hi Y'all, I have been monitoring this list for awhile and although I am totally excited about biofule I must admit that I have never actually done it. I did try to start a car charing organization in Yolo Co CA a few years ago but couldn't get the needed resourses togethernamely people power. Here is my questionI am an auctioneer and work at car auctions for the $$$ (I specialize in benefit auctions). Being such I have friends that are dealers that are happy to buy wholesale for me. Occaionally I see a nice TDI or some other diesel product role by. I often think to my self and say self you should have X buy that for you and then post it on the list here. Would y'all consider that SPAM? Best, Jack Young www.jacksauctions.com 530.219.7900 (voice) 530.795.5536 (fax) Well, folks? Would we consider Jack's offer as SPAM? I have an idea there's a place for this, only I can't remember where it is. Didn't somebody post some such thing (me maybe)? Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Sorghum or Seed Beer?
Slightly off topic, but no doubt there are many out there in 'Sorghum Country' making ethanol fuel that might know the answer. I have seen several mentions of a US homemade beer in the ginger ale category, where sorhum seed was added. Does anyone know the recipe? e.g. http://kentuckyexplorer.com/nonmembers/02-03004.html http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/beverages/msg1118042610515.html Wal Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Website for all the available models but no price reference!!
There are a list of available Diesel in US car market, http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_UScars.html but as mentioned before. Only 1% American is driving a diesel because the gasoline prices are artificially cosmetically much lower than that in Europe. We pay 1.60/gallon in S.California and they are paying 3-4 or even 5 dollars/gallon in Europe after tax. The last I had found Diesel is $1.67/gallon and in a remote gas station, not all gas stations sell Diesel. Not to mention to find a gas station that is selling Bio-Diesel, our proposed green station maybe the first if we could get passed the red tapes in City Hall. (they don't understand what is going and how could you expect them to approve something they don't even know and why you want to buy or sell Bio-Diesel?) European drives 32%(French 68%) diesel and anybody know they are selling BioDiesel at their gas stations? I know BMW is trying to build Hydrogen pumps in Europe for their Hydrogen fleet. Good luck~ Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question I think one of the previous posts correctly pointed out that people may be willing to travel some distance to get a good buy on diesel cars and many others would benefit from the price information to use as value points in their local market where a dealer may not have a clear idea of the true value of a given car or truck and be over pricing it just because they do not deal with very many. That said a simple listing as each car or truck becomes available with basic details and a price would not take any more time than, he says as politely as possible, some of the other trivia we see each week on this list, much of which is at least entertaining. It would be good if there was a web page to go to for a complete listing of what has sold and what is available with the prices and full details, perhaps even pictures similar to what we may see on ebay. When in the states I live in Oregon and would be pleased to fly to California to get a good deal on a diesel car. Have a good day. Vern Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] More on acrylamide - Question
We are having some lab testing done this week and Im confused... I thought earlier posts warned us against acrolein, not acrylamide. Are these separate compounds? Do we need to test for both? Craig No Craig, no cause for concern about acrylamide with biodiesel or SVO. It was a side-issue, though not wholly unrelated, following food scares about deep-fried foods and acrylamide, leading to, among other things, some conjecture that the supplies of WVO might be reduced. Other issues too. Do an archive search for acrylamide if you want the details. This message was an updater on that. regards Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 10:04 AM Subject: [biofuel] More on acrylamide See archives for previous. Keith http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2702241.stm BBC NEWS | Health | Wednesday, 29 January, 2003, 10:29 GMT Food chemical cleared of cancer link Chips are among the foods containing acrylamide High levels of a chemical found in foods such as chips, crisps and bread do not, as feared, seem to raise the risk of cancer, research suggests. snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Intro and question
Jack, and all Seems there's more in favour than not, seems also those not in favour wouldn't mind too much, so please go right ahead. Also note what Ryan said: www.tdiclub.com is the right place for this, there is a classified section where dealers routinely report on their current stock of TDIs. But post details here if you want, not SPAM Best Keith List owner Hi Y'all, I have been monitoring this list for awhile and although I am totally excited about biofule I must admit that I have never actually done it. I did try to start a car charing organization in Yolo Co CA a few years ago but couldn't get the needed resourses togethernamely people power. Here is my questionI am an auctioneer and work at car auctions for the $$$ (I specialize in benefit auctions). Being such I have friends that are dealers that are happy to buy wholesale for me. Occaionally I see a nice TDI or some other diesel product role by. I often think to my self and say self you should have X buy that for you and then post it on the list here. Would y'all consider that SPAM? Best, Jack Young www.jacksauctions.com 530.219.7900 (voice) 530.795.5536 (fax) Well, folks? Would we consider Jack's offer as SPAM? I have an idea there's a place for this, only I can't remember where it is. Didn't somebody post some such thing (me maybe)? Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel using acid catalyst
Kavitha, If you use KOH insteaed of NaOH, you will find that the KOH is more soluble in ethanol than NaOH and makes an excellent base catalyst... although the soap formation you describe is likely to be caused by something other than the solubility of NaOH in ethanol. Ethanol is simply difficult to make biodiesel with. Although methanol is a dangerous chemical, there are many common-sense ways to handle it safely- no problem even for a beginner- and if you have access to a lab at college you may have access to a fume hood and other ventilation equipment. good luck, mark At 11:35 PM 2/1/2003 -0800, you wrote: Hi Filip, You are absolutely right! I am going through the learning curve and I used 30% ethanol to oil ratio. At the very beginning, I had tried with methanol and base catalyst (NaOH) and I also succeeded in getting good quality biodiesel. But, during my first review at college, my prof. said that I should try with ethanol as methanol is carcinogenic. So, I tried ethanol with base catalyst. Unfortunately, NaOH was not sufficiently soluble in ethanol and the process resulted only in soap formation (the whole mass solidified). This, I tried with different ratios of ethanol to oil and the result was the same. So, I switched over to acid catalyst. Moreover, I was considerably encouraged by some chemistry books which said that acid catalysts work faster than base catalysts. So, now, do you mean to say that whatever I suspected as biodiesel with ethanol+acid catalyst is not biodiesel at all? Is it just a blend of ethanol with oil? Will I get into trouble if I use it in the engine? If yes, what sort of problems would I have to face? How can I go about with acid-base catalysis as the base seems to be sparingly soluble in ethanol? Kindly help me! Kavitha. filip.ponsaerts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kavitha, From your mail above, I suspect you are just going through the learning curve, just as I did recently (and still are) 1) Two layers, top with properties of ethanol, lower as biodiesel I suspect you used +25% ethanol to oil ratio... You have most likely the undisolved ethanol on top, with some components of the oil still dissolved, hence the color. The oil layer will be saturated with some dissolved ethanol, which gives the oil some properties like biodiesel (e.g. viscosity) 2) Ethanol is much more difficult to work with. Take it from me, and I'm sure, the rest of the people on this forum... start with methanol until you got this up and running. 3)If I understand correctly you are ONLY using acid. Acid transesterification is VERY slow, and hard to get above 50-65% yield. Read in the chemistry books... good for labs, but for industrial use, you would need +200 degrees celsius and high pressure to get higher yield in reasonable time. Look for acid-base, or base only scenarios, certainly to start with. Regards, Filip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
