Re: [biofuels-biz] What are the Legal ramifications in Australia
Hello, I've the same problem... I'm trying to locate a supply of Methenol in South Queensland and having no end of difficulty Barry - Original Message - From: Jess [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:47 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] What are the Legal ramifications in Australia Hi, I am new to this group I like what I ahve been reading in the archives. I have a question hopefully someone can direct me to the answer. What is situation in Australia with distilling Ethanol for fuel purposes. Do you need a licence or permit. If so where do you obtain one? Jess [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Biofuel business in developing countries.
Hi All, Some time ago I started to write on Biofuel business in developing countries. I now reach a stage where it could be beneficial to ask for comments and suggestions from the list members. The most important suggestions on how to create and organize a biofuel business are not ready, I estimate that it is 20% more needed but you can look at it, http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofueldev.shtml It should be of special interest if I can get comments from members working in developing countries. If you do not want to post your comments, please send them to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Hakan ** If you want to take a look on a project that is very close to my heart, go to: http://energysavingnow.com/ http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site http://playa.nu/ Our small rental activities ** A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. -- Dresden James No flag is large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people -- Howard Zinn Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul. - Unknown Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] veggie oil - lubricant
** Veggie Oil Strain Shows Promise in Car Engines ** Altering the chemical structure of vegetable oil could make the molecule more resistant to temperature changes and increase its use as a supplement to petroleum-based motor oil in automobiles, scientists said on Monday. A team of researchers led by Atanu Adhvaryu at the U.S. Agriculture Department have increased the temperature durability and shelf life of soybean oil by reducing the amount of... To read the article, click here: http://newswatch.cnn.com/ea?ea=tc_scitech,reuters,1048530366067660,0,2003032 4 Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: Biofuel business in developing countries.
Hello Hakan: I«m working with biodiesel in Argentina, and after read your articule I have to say that I«m really agree with all your ideas expresed that paragraphs. In special with your conception about will consume in the future the last oil reserves (the industrialized countries, of course!), there is NO PLACE for our third world countries in this oil reserves. In fact I belive that if our countries take the biofuels way, have a very big chance to overcome and get really strong economies. We can use biofuel while other countries fight by the oil, and this can save us and make our life easy and safe! Argentina have several advantages, we are the biggest vegetable oil exporter in the world (5 millon tonnes per year), we have we have up to 10 millon hectaries of unused land that could produce more than 2 tonnes of oil per hectarie with alternative oil crops, we have a very eficient crushing complex (similar in tecnology to the US soybean crushing complex). But our goberment don«t listen to us, we need biofuel politcs!!. That«s the problem. However our diesel fuel is expensive, and this is good for biofuels. I have some suggestions on how to create a biofuel business, I«m working in biodiesel process tecnology and I think that this could be one key. My objetive is to create the Fort T of biodiesel plants. So I develouping a plant work without use any chemical catalist, and this have several advantages: - The process can consume any crude vegetable oil or grease (without neutralize). - In every feedstock we obtain a minimum of 99% of biodiesel yield with not less than 97% conversion. - The process don«t make any soap. - The process don«t wash the biodiesel (because don«t have any soap and catalist trazes). - The procesing time is 6 minutes vs 1 to 6 hours in the convetional way. - The entire process use 4 time less energy than the others. - For the same capacity the plant is little (and cheaper). - The process is fully continuos. - The biodiesel obtained always have good quality. - The glicerine obtained have higher concentrations and less contaminants than in the other process. - The process don«t need operators. - The cost for procesing its cheaper. - And the most important, the process is very eficient at any scale!! So, my idea is start producing biodiesel with this plant (at very low scale) in coops with farmers who will procesing their own seeds to produce their own fuel. This could be very auspicious, because we are producing a high quality products, at low cost, without need a big invest. I think that with this technology we open up and support the possibilities of a decentralized a biofuel production. We also are researching the alternative oil crops (Energy Crops), this could help us in the medium term (5 - 10 years), because set a new crop in arid lands, needs a lot of invest and research (to take care the local enviroment). But I think that in the future, most of vegetable oil for biodiesel will come from alternative crops because in 2020 will be 8.000 millons people in the world, and will need a lots of food!. Thank you very much for think in us!, the developing countries. Best regards, Mauro Knudsen. --- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, Some time ago I started to write on Biofuel business in developing countries. I now reach a stage where it could be beneficial to ask for comments and suggestions from the list members. The most important suggestions on how to create and organize a biofuel business are not ready, I estimate that it is 20% more needed but you can look at it, http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofueldev.shtml It should be of special interest if I can get comments from members working in developing countries. If you do not want to post your comments, please send them to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Hakan ** If you want to take a look on a project that is very close to my heart, go to: http://energysavingnow.com/ http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site http://playa.nu/ Our small rental activities ** A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. -- Dresden James No flag is large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people -- Howard Zinn Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul. - Unknown
Re: Sasol - was [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS
What would worry me is that ... if for some reason, EMERGENCY(!!), the fire had to be put out ... how would you do it?? Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: paul van den bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] One patent involved rubblising the shale oil insitu (e.g. underground) then setting fire to it and collecting the liquids and gasses driven off. Now in most places in the world, underground fires are avoided... anyone see the series of articles in NS recently talking about the bushfires in indonesia being ignited by coal seam fires? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Waste Oil Heater
I thought you meant like an immersion heater... q1) anyone recomend where I can get one in the big brown land of Oz (melbourne esp.) q2) I was thinking a hot water/steam powered one - take a sealed pot, a suitable hose and a coiled copper pipe. place teh coil in the oil, place teh pot o water on the burner -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hot water tank
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 16:44, you wrote: If I am not mistaken, the glass lined statement was another advertising agency con-job. Glass lined was referring to the thin layer of fiberglass insulation wrapped around a steel tank. They never ever said glass lined tank, although most customers were missled to believe that was what was glass lined. EdB Sorry, you are merely incorrect. Glass lined is just that. The interior of the tank is coated with vitreous glass. The tanks usually fail because the glass cracks (usually nr the fittings) so causing rust, usually quickly, then pinholes. regards Doug Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Guernica
Hi Keith, What a petty, I looked forward to discuss my knowledge of history and especially Guernica. As you probably remember, I got a very good insight of the events in and around Guernica 1962, when I participated in doing an award winning radio program about it. Many interviews with survivors and other participants. When I say that it is many parallels in goals and execution, I mean it. As well as I belive that for the Arab world, US have created a Guernica with shock and awe in Baghdad. Not everybody share the childish enthusiasm, for show and firework that Rumsfeld exposed and that seems to be a part of the American attitudes. I think that expressing shame and sadness would have been a more appropriate reaction and those few journalists who did that are worth a lot of respect. Our generation understand how important symbolism Guernica been and how bad it reflected on the perpetrators. I do not think that the Americans are winning friends in the Arab world and this kind of humiliation, with lack of respect for the Arab sense of pride and honor is bound to make the actions backfire in long term. Anyway, Paul did not had the guts to stay, recover and make good. Not a major loss. Hakan At 12:35 PM 3/24/2003 +0900, you wrote: Hi Hakan So now Paul Schwartz chooses to continue his foolishness off-list by writing to you. He sent me two more letters off-list, both sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED], but addressing me by name, so he knows the score on that well enough. In the first he protested again that he'd been booted for his opinions (not!), then in the second it finally dawned on him that, as my message had said in the first place, his posting privileges had been suspended until he'd apologized to Andrew - but that I'd stopped him doing that by banning him (not!). By this time, please take note, his posting privileges had been restored, as I'd said on the list, as he had apologized to Andrew (though indirectly). So he had in fact, in his bumbling fashion, succeeded in submitting his apology, by the obvious route, and had not been stopped from doing so, had not been banned, had not been bounced in less than 24 hours, and his posting privileges had been restored, as promised, but he hadn't figured that out yet. (This person presumes to be teaching me about list management, LOL!) It's hard to find anything he got right, but this is his conclusion, no matter what, and I'm sure it's completely unshakable: Good one Keith, I apologize, you ban my posts so they won't go through and then say I wasn't banned, I had my posting privileges revoked until I apologize--but, you won't let me apologize. You know, I think that's really clever. It's clear you want no dissent on your board. So I'll go away, I have to earn a living and this is taking up too much of my time. But, we know what really happened here. Paul Right from the start, he instantly jumped to the conclusion (along with others in the war party) that his precious views were being unjustly suppressed - WHILE CRITICIZING ME FOR NOT SUPPRESSING THE VIEWS OF THOSE HE DISAGREES WITH, as others in the war party continued to do all along, baying for the USA bashers to be silenced (but not them of course). And with this ludicrous series of fact-free disconnects he proves it - Viola! - suppression of his views! And the rest of the war party will believe it too. But, we know what really happened here. So he unsubscribed. Despite the incompetence of its delivery, his apology to Andrew was accepted, his posting privileges restored as promised - everything exactly as promised: but try telling the guy he wasn't banned because of his views. Naah, he knows better. From below, off-list to Hakan: Second question, when I suffer quietly while my country is bashed by those on the list for weeks and then I decided to talk on all comers and defend my homeland, I get bounced in less than 24 hours. Who acting like Dr. Joseph Goerbels here? See? Bounced. Nothing about his calling Andrew a fascist of course. (From mice to gerbils, LOL!) He did get a reply: But, we know what really happened here. WE do, but you're just kidding yourself. So what. Which is about as much as it bothers me. If people want to fool themselves, that's their problem. But this kind of weak-minded denial and obfuscation here is list-pollution, and that's my problem. So he's gone, good riddance. That much less noise. Keith Paul, Since I learned that you have the posting rights again and I hope that name calling is no longer necessary, I will post may answer on the list as follows, At 11:31 AM 3/23/2003 -0800, you wrote: My replies to the group have apparently been blocked, although I am getting the posts. So for the time being, I assume my presence is unwelcome in the forum. I did post a reply, but it came back to me. I suggest you talk to the list monitor and ask him for a copy, if he still has it. Apparently, I can be called names,
[biofuel] Forgery, Hyperbole, and Half-Truths
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15ItemID=3298 Forgery, Hyperbole, and Half-Truths by Ray McGovern March 21, 2003 ... Summary: Retired and former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) professionals write President George Bush with an increased sense of urgency and responsibility regarding the looming war between the US and Iraq ... March 18, 2003 MEMORANDUM FOR: The President FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity SUBJECT: Forgery, Hyperbole, Half-Truth: A Problem We last wrote you immediately after Secretary of State Powell's UN speech on February 5, in an attempt to convey our concerns that insufficient attention was being given to wider intelligence-related issues at stake in the conflict with Iraq. Your speech yesterday evening did nothing to allay those concerns. And the acerbic exchanges of the past few weeks have left the United States more isolated than at any time in the history of the republic and the American people more polarized. Today we write with an increased sense of urgency and responsibility. Responsibility, because you appear to be genuinely puzzled at the widespread opposition to your policy on Iraq and because we have become convinced that those of your advisers who do understand what is happening are reluctant to be up front with you about it. As veterans of the CIA and other intelligence agencies, the posture we find ourselves in is as familiar as it is challenging. We feel a continuing responsibility to tell it like it is-or at least as we see it-without fear or favor. Better to hear it from extended family than not at all; we hope you will take what follows in that vein. We cannot escape the conclusion that you have been badly misinformed. It was reported yesterday that your generals in the Persian Gulf area have become increasingly concerned over sandstorms. To us this is a metaphor for the shifting sand-type intelligence upon which your policy has been built. Worse still, it has become increasingly clear that the sharp drop in US credibility abroad is largely a function of the rather transparent abuse of intelligence reporting and the dubious conclusions drawn from that reporting-the ones that underpin your decisions on Iraq. Flashback to Vietnam Many of us cut our intelligence teeth during the sixties. We remember the arrogance and flawed thinking that sucked us into the quagmire of Vietnam. The French, it turned out, knew better. And they looked on with wonderment at Washington's misplaced confidence-its single-minded hubris, as it embarked on a venture the French knew from their own experience could only meet a dead end. This was hardly a secret. It was widely known that the French general sent off to survey the possibility of regaining Vietnam for France after World War II reported that the operation would take a half-million troops, and even then it could not be successful. Nevertheless, President Johnson, heeding the ill-informed advice of civilian leaders of the Pentagon with no experience in war, let himself get drawn in past the point of no return. In the process, he played fast and loose with intelligence to get the Tonkin Gulf resolution through Congress so that he could prosecute the war. To that misguided war he mortgaged his political future, which was in shambles when he found himself unable to extricate himself from the morass. Quite apart from what happened to President Johnson, the Vietnam War was the most serious US foreign policy blunder in modern timesÉuntil now. Forgery In your state-of-the-union address you spoke of Iraq's pre-1991 focus on how to enrich uranium for a bomb and added, the British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. No doubt you have now been told that this information was based on bogus correspondence between Iraq and Niger. Answering a question on this last week, Secretary Powell conceded-with neither apology nor apparent embarrassment-that the documents in question, which the US and UK had provided to the UN to show that Iraq is still pursuing nuclear weapons, were forgeries. Powell was short: If that information is inaccurate, fine. But it is anything but fine. This kind of episode inflicts serious damage on US credibility abroad-the more so, as it appears neither you nor your advisers and political supporters are in hot pursuit of those responsible. Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts has shown little enthusiasm for finding out what went awry. Committee Vice-Chairman, Jay Rockefeller, suggested that the FBI be enlisted to find the perpetrators of the forgeries, which US officials say contain laughable and child-like errors, and to determine why the CIA did not recognize them as forgeries. But Roberts indicated through a committee spokeswoman that he believes it is inappropriate for the FBI to investigate at this point. Foreign observers do
[biofuel] The United States of America has gone mad - John le Carr
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-543296,00.html Times Online Guest contributors January 15, 2003 The United States of America has gone mad John le Carr America has entered one of its periods of historical madness, but this is the worst I can remember: worse than McCarthyism, worse than the Bay of Pigs and in the long term potentially more disastrous than the Vietnam War. The reaction to 9/11 is beyond anything Osama bin Laden could have hoped for in his nastiest dreams. As in McCarthy times, the freedoms that have made America the envy of the world are being systematically eroded. The combination of compliant US media and vested corporate interests is once more ensuring that a debate that should be ringing out in every town square is confined to the loftier columns of the East Coast press. The imminent war was planned years before bin Laden struck, but it was he who made it possible. Without bin Laden, the Bush junta would still be trying to explain such tricky matters as how it came to be elected in the first place; Enron; its shameless favouring of the already-too-rich; its reckless disregard for the world's poor, the ecology and a raft of unilaterally abrogated international treaties. They might also have to be telling us why they support Israel in its continuing disregard for UN resolutions. But bin Laden conveniently swept all that under the carpet. The Bushies are riding high. Now 88 per cent of Americans want the war, we are told. The US defence budget has been raised by another $60 billion to around $360 billion. A splendid new generation of nuclear weapons is in the pipeline, so we can all breathe easy. Quite what war 88 per cent of Americans think they are supporting is a lot less clear. A war for how long, please? At what cost in American lives? At what cost to the American taxpayer's pocket? At what cost - because most of those 88 per cent are thoroughly decent and humane people - in Iraqi lives? How Bush and his junta succeeded in deflecting America's anger from bin Laden to Saddam Hussein is one of the great public relations conjuring tricks of history. But they swung it. A recent poll tells us that one in two Americans now believe Saddam was responsible for the attack on the World Trade Centre. But the American public is not merely being misled. It is being browbeaten and kept in a state of ignorance and fear. The carefully orchestrated neurosis should carry Bush and his fellow conspirators nicely into the next election. Those who are not with Mr Bush are against him. Worse, they are with the enemy. Which is odd, because I'm dead against Bush, but I would love to see Saddam's downfall - just not on Bush's terms and not by his methods. And not under the banner of such outrageous hypocrisy. The religious cant that will send American troops into battle is perhaps the most sickening aspect of this surreal war-to-be. Bush has an arm-lock on God. And God has very particular political opinions. God appointed America to save the world in any way that suits America. God appointed Israel to be the nexus of America's Middle Eastern policy, and anyone who wants to mess with that idea is a) anti-Semitic, b) anti-American, c) with the enemy, and d) a terrorist. God also has pretty scary connections. In America, where all men are equal in His sight, if not in one another's, the Bush family numbers one President, one ex-President, one ex-head of the CIA, the Governor of Florida and the ex-Governor of Texas. Care for a few pointers? George W. Bush, 1978-84: senior executive, Arbusto Energy/Bush Exploration, an oil company; 1986-90: senior executive of the Harken oil company. Dick Cheney, 1995-2000: chief executive of the Halliburton oil company. Condoleezza Rice, 1991-2000: senior executive with the Chevron oil company, which named an oil tanker after her. And so on. But none of these trifling associations affects the integrity of God's work. In 1993, while ex-President George Bush was visiting the ever-democratic Kingdom of Kuwait to receive thanks for liberating them, somebody tried to kill him. The CIA believes that somebody was Saddam. Hence Bush Jr's cry: That man tried to kill my Daddy. But it's still not personal, this war. It's still necessary. It's still God's work. It's still about bringing freedom and democracy to oppressed Iraqi people. To be a member of the team you must also believe in Absolute Good and Absolute Evil, and Bush, with a lot of help from his friends, family and God, is there to tell us which is which. What Bush won't tell us is the truth about why we're going to war. What is at stake is not an Axis of Evil - but oil, money and people's lives. Saddam's misfortune is to sit on the second biggest oilfield in the world. Bush wants it, and who helps him get it will receive a piece of the cake. And who doesn't, won't. If Saddam didn't have the oil, he could torture his citizens to his heart's
[biofuel] The War - Galeano
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15ItemID=3308 The War by Eduardo Galeano La Jornada March 23, 2003 Just think. In the middle of last year, when this war was still only gestating, George W. Bush stated that 'we have to be ready to attack in any obscure corner of the world'; ergo, Iraq is an obscure corner of the world. Does Bush believe that civilization began in Texas and his fellow Texans invented writing? Has he really never heard of the library of Niniveh, the tower of Babel or the hanging gardens of Babylon? Has he really never heard even one of the tales in the thousand and one nights of Baghdad? * * * Who elected him president of this planet anyway? I was never asked to vote in any such elections. Were you? Would we elect a president who was deaf to the population? Would we elect a man incapable of hearing any but the echoes of his own voice? A man deaf to the ceaseless thunder of millions of voices in the streets declaring peace on war? He has not even heeded a word of friendly advice from the German writer Gnter Grass. Realising that Bush felt driven to demonstrate something very important to his daddy, Grass suggested that he see a psychoanalyst rather than bombing Iraq. * * * In 1898, president William McKinley declared that God had commanded him to seize the Philippines in order to civilize and christianize their inhabitants. McKinley said that he had spoken with God at midnight as he roamed the corridors of the White House. Over a century later, president Bush assures us that God is on his side in the conquest of Iraq. What time was it and where was he, we wonder, when he got the divine message? We might also ask why the messages to Bush and to the Pope at Rome were so contradictory. * * * War has been declared in the name of the international community, which is sick of wars. And as per usual, war has been declared in the name of peace. It's not about oil, they say. And yet, if Iraq produced radishes rather than oil, would anyone seriously suggest invading? Have Bush, Dick Cheney and sweet Condoleeza Rice really all given up their top jobs in the oil industry? Why is Tony Blair so obsessed with the Iraqi dictator? Could it be because 30 years ago Saddam Hussein nationalized the British Iraq Petroleum Company? And how many oil wells is Jos Mara Aznar expecting to get when the spoils are divvied up? The oil-drunk consumer society is deathly afraid of withdrawal symptoms. And Iraq is where the black elixir is cheapest, and possibly most plentiful. In a peace demonstration in New York, one placard read: Why is our oil beneath their sands?. * * * The United States says it expects a lengthy military occupation following its victory. US generals will be in charge of setting up democracy in Iraq. Will this be a democracy like in Haiti, the Dominican Republic or Nicaragua? They occupied Haiti for 19 years and set up a military power base that eventually became the dictatorship of Francois Duvalier. They occupied the Dominican Republic for nine years and laid the foundations for the dictatorship of Rafael Leonidas Trujillo. They occupied Nicaragua for 21 years and founded the dictatorship of the Somoza family. * * * The Somoza dynasty, set on the throne by the Marines, lasted half a century before being swept away by popular fury in 1979. Then, president Ronald Reagan got on his horse and set out to rescue the country from the threat of the Sandinista revolution. Among the poorest of the poor, Nicaragua was a country with all of five elevators, and one escalator that didn't work. Nevertheless, Reagan proclaimed that Nicaragua was a menace; and as he spoke, TV screens showed a map of the United States with a red stain spreading from the south to illustrate the course of the imminent invasion. Can president Bush be copying the panic-rousing speeches of his predecessor? Can Bush be saying Iraq where Reagan said Nicaragua? * * * Newspaper headlines in the run-up to war: The United States is prepared to resist attack. Record sales of insulating tape, gas masks, radiation pills ... Why is the executioner more afraid than the victim? Is it only this climate of collective hysteria? Or does it tremble at the foreseeable consequences of its actions? And what if Iraqi oil sets fire to the world? Will this war not be just the vitamin shot that international terrorism was looking for? * * * We are told that Saddam Hussein succours the fanatics of Al Qaeda. What is this - his very own viper's nest? Islamic fundamentalists loathe him. Can we say that a country is satanic where people watch Hollywood movies, many schools teach English, the Muslim majority do nothing to prevent Christians walking about sporting crucifixes and it is not uncommon to see women wearing trousers and daring blouses? There were no Iraqis among the terrorists who demolished the twin towers of New York. Almost all of them were from
Re: [Biofuel] Crude Oil Price
so by that rational, I am one of the most prolific researchers I know :-) Nice one Paul James -- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers...
Paul, What I was differing with on the high grade vs low grade' aspect was the saturated vs unsaturated aspect that Ken mentioned, with the heavier saturated fats that tend to settle towards the bottom being of lower grade. Both saturated and unsaturated make good biodiesel. Just that saturated has a higher cloud point and will exhibit winter associated problems more quickly. I certainly would give a low grade connotation to the oil mixed amongst the solid fraction that settles out. That's the part that is problematic in that cumulatively it is one boatload of fuel. We've got a downdraft wood gasifier on the shopping list so that the fuel content of the solds can be recovered. That and so the process becomes more biofuel oriented. But the majority of the oil still needs to be extracted. Even then we won't use all 250,000 btus of output in the biodiesel process, so the excess will have to be utilized in other manners. Plans to use the waste heat and exhaust are already in the mix for a greenhouse - the CO2 rich exhaust will suit such purposes enormously well. We'll just have to vent before human entry, even though gasifier exhaust contains far less CO than conventional exhaust. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: paul van den bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 12:01 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers... On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 03:30 pm, Appal Energy wrote: And to think...all I wanted to do was squeeze the guts out of a few hundred pounds of oil soaked burger chips I wouldn't consider the saturated fats necessarily a low grade feedstock, nor the biodiesel from same to necessarily be inferior. It would just have a higher cloud point is all. Still a perfectly good fuel under most conditions. Todd Swearingen Just to clarify what I mean by high grade versus low grade. It may be a high grade fuel once you seperate it from all the rest of the junk, thus the desire to press it. But (IMHO) it is low grade, atleast wrt WVO as you do need to do an additional step to extract the value. high grade (or high value if you prefer) implies to my mind little or no processing or inexpensive/low tech/simple/cheap equipment to process it. especially where the energy input is low or free. low grade implies to me that the opposite is true. The fuel source contains lots of contamination or materials that are hard to remove or requires expensive equipment, difficult processing, or energy intensive processing, especially wrt other equivelent sources. if you don't want to compost it, pyrolise it. Or straight out burn it to make steam - water gas, electricity, as energy source for distilling, etc. etc. My point really is that teh optimal use for a given matter stream will depend on a number of factors and (self imposed - e.g. not wanting to use dinofuels) limitations. If cost effectiveness is your aim, (and your definition of cost may vary :-) ) then the choice of what you use a given feed strock for will (er... should?) be based on the best return for your effort. Given two feedstocks, WVO and dumster trash with WVO all though it, I would make the WVO into diesel and use the trash either as compost, methane digestion, fermentation, or low grade fuel to make steam etc. to refine the diesel/ distil (m)ethanol. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul
Paul If you're still around. It seems not; but if you are, I accept your apology. -- Andrew Preston -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers...
Hey Keith, Yes. I took a look at the Bielenberg, Komet and Sundhara models. (Photos of the Komets are certainly deceptive, making them look like domestic kitchen models almost, although the motor design bely the diminuitive image a bit.) I can se the Sundhara as being considerably less expensive than the Komet. But for something as simple and pre-pulped as oil soaked grease scrapings I would think the Bielenberg would be the cat's whiskers. A bigger hopper would probably have to be installed on it. The centrifuge concept has raised an eyebrow or two. I know where to find used stainless steel honey extracters for a small price. One would have to be modified and a fine mesh screen affixed solidly inside the basket. But I think it would work, as would the spin cycle of an old washing machine (only perhaps a lot more fiddlin' and messier?). Here's a visual of the interior of a honey extractor. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2518288462category=26188 I think the Bielenberg and a centrifuge might both work well. Gonna' have to run with both of those thought processes. Todd - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 1:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers... On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 08:42 am, Donald Strong wrote: OIL PRESS Todd: How about modifying one of the common log splitters ? ( think potato ricer on the end of the ram). Don Strong, proud tennis-ball machine [he's found his niche! LOL!] there was a list in Joshua Tickells book From the fryer to the fuel tank... I will see if I can remember to bring the book allong and transcribe the URLs... Oilseed presses http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress ApproTec's Mafuti Mali (Oil Wealth) press is a manual press for small-scale local production. The Hela Mk II is a high-performance manual press for extracting cold-pressed oil from sunflower and other seeds. The extraction efficiency is considered better than any other manual press -- about 12 kg of sunflower seed per hour. Easy to use, tough and durable, but not cheap -- US$265 in Tanzania. Contact Hugh C. Allen, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.approtec.org/tech_oil.shtml The Sundhara oil expeller, designed in Germany for use in Nepal, now made in Nepal and Zimbabwe -- 60-70kg/hr (about 15 litres of oil). At the Jatropha Website: http://www.jatropha.org/expellers/sundhara-1.htm The Jatropha System -- many oilseed presses detailed here, see Oil extraction: http://www.jatropha.org/ Small-scale electric screw presses to press oil from seeds from Tbypressen in Sweden. http://www.oilpress.com KOMET Vegetable Oil Expeller, IBG Monforts in Germany -- range covers small hand-operated as well as powered machines. Virtually all oil-bearing seeds, nuts, and kernels can be pressed with the standard equipment without cumbersome adjusting of screws and oil outlet holes. The vegetable oil produced generally needs no refining, bleaching, or deodorizing. Big nuts, kernels, and copra (dried coconut meat) have to be crushed to the particle size of peas on the KOMET Cutting Machine System CRUSHER. IBG Monforts: http://www.oekotec.ibg-monforts.de/ Neoteric Biofuels Inc. in British Columbia, Canada: http://www.biofuels.ca/ India's United Oil Mill Machinery Spares Pvt. Ltd manufactures and exports an entire range of machinery and equipment for small, medium and large capacity oil mills for seed preparation, oil expelling, filtration and refining. Oil expellers for extraction of oil from any oil-bearing seed, capacities from 1 ton to 150 tons per day (24 hours); other machinery/equipment with matching capacities. * Tiger Mk I Oil Expeller, all steel construction, fitted with steel gears and pinions, fitted with steam heating kettle with electricals, capacity 2 tons per day (24 hours). US$7,500-00 * Tiger Mk II Oil Expeller, all steel construction, fitted with steel gears and pinions, fitted with steam heating kettle with electricals, capacity 3-4 tons per day (24 hours). US$9,500-00 * Exceoil Mk 2 Automatic Oil Expeller, all steel construction with double reduction helical gear box with steam kettle complete with electricals, capacity 8-10 tons per day (24 hours). US$15,000-00 Prices F.O.B. Indian port. Also manufactures the Wolf baby oil expeller with a capacity of 1 ton per day , caste-iron construction. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.umas-india.com Dong Kwang Oil Machine Co., South Korea -- automatic edible oil presses, from 10kg/hr up. For sesame seed, sunflower, palm kernel, cacao, coconut (copra), olive, castor, cotton seed, maize (germ), rice bran, almond (germ), apricot (germ), soya bean, Chinese tung (germ), walnut, peanut, linseed, rape seed, perilla seed, mustard, etc. http://www.dongkwang.co.kr/en_menu/main.html Tinytech Plants -- Tiny Oil Mill, oil expeller with cooking kettle, Groundnut
Re: [biofuel] Hot water tank
I have recycled a number of water heaters over the years, and have removed tanks from some with decals stating that they were Glass Lined, however, I have never ever found a single tank that was lined inside with anything. They have all been just plain steel tanks. The tanks were used for was grey water disposal. The tanks are drilled full of holes, and burried. The grey water pipe runs, through a large hole I cut, into the tank, and the grey water is released into the tank and seeps into earth through the small holes. The tank eventually rusts or sometimes plugs with dirt and needs replacement after a few years. I have recycled tanks for compressed air tanks, and currently have one which has a welded in bottom. No glass there either. Never saw any glass lined tanks, but I have seen the decals. Have you actually seen the inside of a tank with a glass coating? EdB - Original Message - From: Doug Foskey To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:02 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Hot water tank On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 16:44, you wrote: If I am not mistaken, the glass lined statement was another advertising agency con-job. Glass lined was referring to the thin layer of fiberglass insulation wrapped around a steel tank. They never ever said glass lined tank, although most customers were missled to believe that was what was glass lined. EdB Sorry, you are merely incorrect. Glass lined is just that. The interior of the tank is coated with vitreous glass. The tanks usually fail because the glass cracks (usually nr the fittings) so causing rust, usually quickly, then pinholes. regards Doug Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Retrieving the gold... Engine Oil Pumps
Has anyone tried using a small 12v engine starter motor from say, a Motor cycle, or small 4 cyl car engine. If so, what is a good size, and what if any resistance would need to be put in the line to tone it down if you need to? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul
Paul If you're still around. It seems not; but if you are, I accept your apology. -- Andrew Preston Hello Andrew He's not still around, he argued himself out of it, self-righteousness apparently intact, but only at the expense of just about everything else. :-( Anyway, I'm sorry you never actually got his apology, just news of it, and that indirectly. I never got it either - he told me he'd tried to send you an apology (by a route he must have known would fail), but that's all, I never saw the article itself. I took his word for it, maybe it was true, maybe not. No way of knowing. I rather doubt he knows himself. Anyway, thankyou, that closes the case well. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Waste Oil Heater
There are a number of New Zealand companies which sell equipment that could be used to produce small quantities of alcohol fuel, for experimental purposes, and they do sell to Australia. You should be able to buy one locally from a plumbing supply, or hardware. One that has immersion heaters is http://www.spiritsunlimited.co.nz/ Some other links are at http://www.homedistiller.org/links.htm EdB - Original Message - From: paul van den bergen To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Waste Oil Heater I thought you meant like an immersion heater... q1) anyone recomend where I can get one in the big brown land of Oz (melbourne esp.) q2) I was thinking a hot water/steam powered one - take a sealed pot, a suitable hose and a coiled copper pipe. place teh coil in the oil, place teh pot o water on the burner -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Question
I recently subscribed to this newsgroup so I could learn more about biodiesel, but the vast majority of messages I've seen so far are OPed pieces regarding the righteousness or not of the US invasion of Iraq. As a new subscriber, should I expect to wade through 50+ useless messages a day for a half-dozen topical nuggets? -BRAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
..I'm ALL for our Armed Forces using Bio-fuels, I talk about it all the time. I think about 98% of our Vehicles ARE diesel or Kero(air) powered. I think only the civilian based Govt. cars and vans(and some of these are diesel now) are gas powered. Bio-diesel and hybrid cars in the mil. could Add great flexibility and save Tax payers a good amount of $ I would think. Jenn Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Premix raw stock ??
Hello all. Hate to get off topic with a Biodiesel question (The group is all politics now), but I get my raw used oil from many craft show venders . They all use the same oil, but use it to cook many different things. As that can really change the PH from one 5 gal batch to another, I am thinking it would be best to filter it THEN mis all the raw stock for a hour or so before taking the first PH reading. Make sense ?? Thanks, Bill in Az. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ethanol mixtures
great, thanks for the tips. i won't continue to mix after the 55 galls in used up, so I don't anticipate any short-term problems with the low mixtures. Ed, I have tried to make biodiesel with the ethanol about 10 times with no success. I am assuming it has to do with water content in the ethanol and I have switched to methanol. at some point I would like to try to squeeze the last bit of water out with 3A zeolite, but I don't have the $$ to do it right now, nor a way to re-activite it at 300-350 deg C. cheers, Jack oh yeah, quick follow up question for anyone with knowledge of engines... a good chunk of our gasoline use is in 4-stroke Mercury outboard engines in our boats. I assume that the 10% ethanol would be suitable for this as well? Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org - Original Message - From: bratt To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] ethanol mixtures There are two more important consideraations when using ethanol or methanol mixtures in gasoline. One is the corossive nature of alcohol and its effect on seals, gaskets and hoses. There is also mild corrosion of aluminum. Limiting the mix ratio keeps it minimal. The other is that addition of alcohol or methanol will raise the octane rating, however, after reaching a certain point, adding more will drop the octane reading, according to the lab at the local refinery. I did not get figures, but If I were using up 55 gallons, I would use it in a 10 per cent solution, just like the local gas station pumps. EdB - Original Message - From: Jack Kenworthy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 4:42 PM Subject: [biofuel] ethanol mixtures can anyone tell me the maximum amount of ethanol that you can blend with gasoline and burn in an unmodified gasoline engine? I have a 55 gall drum of ethanol lying around that I can't make biodiesel with and I am looking for a suitable use. thanks. jk Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Guernica
Hi Hakan Hi Keith, What a petty, I looked forward to discuss my knowledge of history and especially Guernica. Yes, a pity - I don't imagine you were actually smarting at being told your education was incompetent and you obviously know nothing about history, but people who say such things with such abandon and get it all wrong ought perhaps to learn a little caution and respect (stony ground indeed in this case though I fear). I'd have enjoyed the discussion. I appreciate the comparison, I believe it's a useful one, especially in light of the most recent shameful event in the painting's history, that of the UN covering it up for Powell's presentation. It seems there's more than one comparison possible, eh? Interesting to compare the comparisons! As you probably remember, I got a very good insight of the events in and around Guernica 1962, when I participated in doing an award winning radio program about it. Many interviews with survivors and other participants. When I say that it is many parallels in goals and execution, I mean it. I agree, I know enough about it to see the parallels. The painting is such a powerful condemnation. What would Picasso have said today? What would he tell someone like Paul? Someone like Powell and the UN, like Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush? Saddam Hussein? Imagine the Pope, the Dalai Lama, and Picasso, and the painting too, all defiantly in Baghdad now? As well as I belive that for the Arab world, US have created a Guernica with shock and awe in Baghdad. Not everybody share the childish enthusiasm, for show and firework that Rumsfeld exposed Donald Rumsfeld on CNN 'live': These people [Iraq] bomb innocent people when they hit the World Trade Centers killing innocent civilians. There is no evidence whatsoever connecting Iraq with al-Qaeda and 9-11. A recent poll found that 42% of Americans now believe Saddam Hussein was responsible for the Sept 11 attacks and not Osama bin Laden. Few of us can easily surrender our belief that society must somehow make sense. The thought that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so many innocent people is intolerable. And so the evidence has to be internally denied. - Arthur Miller and that seems to be a part of the American attitudes. Some, not others - maybe not even most. Kirk sent me these poll results: Earth Changes TV - Iraqi War Survey Results Iraqi War Survey Results The following is the result of 725 survey responses. This is not a scientific poll, but is believed to be accurate within +/- 3%. Thank you for your participation. Can a person be against the war, yet support the troops: YES: 78%NO: 21% Do you believe George W. Bush had sufficient world support to attack: YES: 33% NO: 67% Do you believe North Korea poses a greater threat than Iraq: YES: 68% NO: 32% Do you believe Saddam Hussain is alive or dead: ALIVE: 86% DEAD: 14% Do you believe foreign occupation of Iraq will be more or less than 1 year: MORE: 78% LESS: 22% Do you believe there is a connection between 9-11 (al-Qaeda) and Iraq: YES: 34% NO: 66% Do you believe there is international support for US actions: YES: 23% NO: 76% Do you believe there is world support for the Iraqi invasion: YES: 27% NO: 72% Do you believe there will be an international fall-out for US actions: YES: 78%NO: 22% Do you believe there will be terrorist attacks on US soil: YES: 80% NO: 20% Do you plan to re-elect George W. Bush: YES: 24% NO: 76% Do you plan to vote in 2004: YES: 92% NO: 8% Should American troops attack Syria and Iran while in Iraq: YES: 8%NO: 92% Should US troops attack North Korea now or wait for 1st strike: WAIT: 88%NOW: 12% Will a terrorist attack harm US citizens in more or less than 1 week: MORE: 77% LESS: 23% Would you like ECTV to continue coverage of war/invasion events: YES: 75% NO: 25% Try a Google search for impeach Bush and see what you find, rather interesting. I think that expressing shame and sadness would have been a more appropriate reaction and those few journalists who did that are worth a lot of respect. They're there, quite a few of them - the journalists, that is, the real ones. The media outlets, well, that's another matter. Our generation understand how important symbolism
Re: [biofuel] ethanol mixtures
I would check with a Mercury dealer before using ethanol, to see if they have had any problens with seals, hoses, etc. It might depend upon the date of manufacture. EdB - Original Message - From: Jack Kenworthy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] ethanol mixtures great, thanks for the tips. i won't continue to mix after the 55 galls in used up, so I don't anticipate any short-term problems with the low mixtures. Ed, I have tried to make biodiesel with the ethanol about 10 times with no success. I am assuming it has to do with water content in the ethanol and I have switched to methanol. at some point I would like to try to squeeze the last bit of water out with 3A zeolite, but I don't have the $$ to do it right now, nor a way to re-activite it at 300-350 deg C. cheers, Jack oh yeah, quick follow up question for anyone with knowledge of engines... a good chunk of our gasoline use is in 4-stroke Mercury outboard engines in our boats. I assume that the 10% ethanol would be suitable for this as well? Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org - Original Message - From: bratt To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] ethanol mixtures There are two more important consideraations when using ethanol or methanol mixtures in gasoline. One is the corossive nature of alcohol and its effect on seals, gaskets and hoses. There is also mild corrosion of aluminum. Limiting the mix ratio keeps it minimal. The other is that addition of alcohol or methanol will raise the octane rating, however, after reaching a certain point, adding more will drop the octane reading, according to the lab at the local refinery. I did not get figures, but If I were using up 55 gallons, I would use it in a 10 per cent solution, just like the local gas station pumps. EdB - Original Message - From: Jack Kenworthy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 4:42 PM Subject: [biofuel] ethanol mixtures can anyone tell me the maximum amount of ethanol that you can blend with gasoline and burn in an unmodified gasoline engine? I have a 55 gall drum of ethanol lying around that I can't make biodiesel with and I am looking for a suitable use. thanks. jk Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil
I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge regarding what small diesels run best on used veggie oil. I have read much information on the controversy about DI engines and their ability to run properly and long-term on WVO. Does anyone have any first hand experience with this? I am also looking into older mercedes (S-class in particular) along with newer VW TDI's and older VW's. I've heard that mercedes engines can almost run on lard. Also, there are a slew of conversion kits out there, mostly from Europe - any recommendations? Thanks in advance and cheers, -- Ben - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers...
Hi Todd The Bielenberg's a manual press, isn't it? Ken Provost has a Hela Mk II from ApproTEC in Tanzania. Previous messages re which: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=16640list=BIOFUEL http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=16640list=biofuelrelated=1 Hey Keith, Yes. I took a look at the Bielenberg, Komet and Sundhara models. (Photos of the Komets are certainly deceptive, making them look like domestic kitchen models almost, although the motor design bely the diminuitive image a bit.) Ed knows about Komets (ie Ed Beggs, who used to sign himself EdB sometimes, but now we have a new EdB - bratt, both from Canada). I can se the Sundhara as being considerably less expensive than the Komet. But for something as simple and pre-pulped as oil soaked grease scrapings I would think the Bielenberg would be the cat's whiskers. A bigger hopper would probably have to be installed on it. The centrifuge concept has raised an eyebrow or two. I know where to find used stainless steel honey extracters for a small price. One would have to be modified and a fine mesh screen affixed solidly inside the basket. But I think it would work, as would the spin cycle of an old washing machine (only perhaps a lot more fiddlin' and messier?). Here's a visual of the interior of a honey extractor. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2518288462category=26188 Uh, where do you attach it to the end of the bee? :-) I think the Bielenberg and a centrifuge might both work well. Gonna' have to run with both of those thought processes. Please keep bouncing the old thought processes off of here. Best Keith Todd - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 1:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers... On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 08:42 am, Donald Strong wrote: OIL PRESS Todd: How about modifying one of the common log splitters ? ( think potato ricer on the end of the ram). Don Strong, proud tennis-ball machine [he's found his niche! LOL!] there was a list in Joshua Tickells book From the fryer to the fuel tank... I will see if I can remember to bring the book allong and transcribe the URLs... Oilseed presses http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress ApproTec's Mafuti Mali (Oil Wealth) press is a manual press for small-scale local production. The Hela Mk II is a high-performance manual press for extracting cold-pressed oil from sunflower and other seeds. The extraction efficiency is considered better than any other manual press -- about 12 kg of sunflower seed per hour. Easy to use, tough and durable, but not cheap -- US$265 in Tanzania. Contact Hugh C. Allen, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.approtec.org/tech_oil.shtml The Sundhara oil expeller, designed in Germany for use in Nepal, now made in Nepal and Zimbabwe -- 60-70kg/hr (about 15 litres of oil). At the Jatropha Website: http://www.jatropha.org/expellers/sundhara-1.htm The Jatropha System -- many oilseed presses detailed here, see Oil extraction: http://www.jatropha.org/ Small-scale electric screw presses to press oil from seeds from Tbypressen in Sweden. http://www.oilpress.com KOMET Vegetable Oil Expeller, IBG Monforts in Germany -- range covers small hand-operated as well as powered machines. Virtually all oil-bearing seeds, nuts, and kernels can be pressed with the standard equipment without cumbersome adjusting of screws and oil outlet holes. The vegetable oil produced generally needs no refining, bleaching, or deodorizing. Big nuts, kernels, and copra (dried coconut meat) have to be crushed to the particle size of peas on the KOMET Cutting Machine System CRUSHER. IBG Monforts: http://www.oekotec.ibg-monforts.de/ Neoteric Biofuels Inc. in British Columbia, Canada: http://www.biofuels.ca/ India's United Oil Mill Machinery Spares Pvt. Ltd manufactures and exports an entire range of machinery and equipment for small, medium and large capacity oil mills for seed preparation, oil expelling, filtration and refining. Oil expellers for extraction of oil from any oil-bearing seed, capacities from 1 ton to 150 tons per day (24 hours); other machinery/equipment with matching capacities. * Tiger Mk I Oil Expeller, all steel construction, fitted with steel gears and pinions, fitted with steam heating kettle with electricals, capacity 2 tons per day (24 hours). US$7,500-00 * Tiger Mk II Oil Expeller, all steel construction, fitted with steel gears and pinions, fitted with steam heating kettle with electricals, capacity 3-4 tons per day (24 hours). US$9,500-00 * Exceoil Mk 2 Automatic Oil Expeller, all steel construction with double reduction helical gear box with steam kettle complete with electricals, capacity 8-10 tons per day (24 hours). US$15,000-00 Prices F.O.B. Indian port. Also manufactures the Wolf
Re: [biofuel] Alcohol equipment
Dear Bratt: The sites you suggested are really loaded with very useful information. Thanks very much for the tips. With best regards, Luis R. Calzadilla [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: bratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Waste Oil Heater There are a number of New Zealand companies which sell equipment that could be used to produce small quantities of alcohol fuel, for experimental purposes, and they do sell to Australia. You should be able to buy one locally from a plumbing supply, or hardware. One that has immersion heaters is http://www.spiritsunlimited.co.nz/ Some other links are at http://www.homedistiller.org/links.htm EdB Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers...
Todd, many years ago I was working in a small tofu production facility, we had a device to press the cooked, ground soybean slurry, to separate the solids from the liquids, to make soy milk, and then into tofu. It was an upright hydraulic press with a 24 inch diameter tub, about 30 inches high, with a drain at the bottom. The plunger was a solid plate fitted to the ram end of the hydraulic cylinder that would fit just inside the tub. The solids were placed in a fine mesh nylon bag. It worked very well. I believe it would work for the problem you state. I've seen similar equipment for making apple cider. For those with tractor hydraulics available, you could use the hydraulic pump off the tractor. Save some money not buying a pump and power source. For smaller scale biodiesel production possibly the same type setup, but with a long lever instead of the hydraulic cylinder. A heavy weight could be placed on the end of the lever and left there for a period of time. Or, another thought...a frame for pressing as described above, but using a tractor hylift jack instead of the hydaulics of the lever. Just some thoughts. Chris Amar Appal Energy wrote: Okay, so it's easy to throw 10 or 15 pounds of burger chips and grill scrapings into a compost heap. What the opossums and raccoons don't get the worms will. But has anyone seen any type of an inexpensive hydraulic ram set up that can get the last drops of fat out of the solids prior to composting? Approximately 10% out of every 250 gallon dumpster is a boatload of high oil content slop. Too much to just feed to the hogs and too much in short order to simply compost without reducing the oil content first. Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Raw Materials
Hi Kelly What are common sources for the raw chemical materials for biofuel processing? I can get the oil but wanted to know sources for the alcohol (methanol/ethonal) and test chemicals (PH testing stuff). You should find a lot of it here: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html Biofuels supplies and suppliers Biodiesel suppliers Biodiesel technology Biodiesel processors Glycerine purification Gas Chromatographs Near Infrared Spectroscopy (NIR) Oilseed presses Methanol suppliers Dehydrating ethanol pH testing Washing Straight vegetable oil systems, equipment Fuel heaters, filters Viscosity meters Refractometers Brewing equipment Temperature gauges Automatic temperature control valves Rustproofing, anti-corrosion General equipment Diesel engines Soldering, brazing A lot more sources in the archives, if you search around a bit: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel So far I have these sources identified (or not=??): *Oil - local restaurant for used oil or Sams club for clean oil. *Lye - hardware store. Pure lye - I think in the US that's Red Devil, but not Draino. Also from lab suppliers and bulk chemical suppliers. *Methonal - ?? Auto parts, fuel additives?? Dri-gas - one type's methanol, another is isopropanol, which is more expensive, make sure to get the methanol one. Hey, I'm far away from North America, I hope some of the locals will check this over. *PH test kits and associated chemicals - ?? (pool supply??) Yes, but if you're using chemicals get phenolphthalein, not phenol red, more common, but it doesn't go high enough. Also from lab suppliers. Phenolphthalein is light-sensitive, keep it in a cool dark place. For pH meters, see suppliers above. Either way, you'll also need isopropanol, 99+%. *I have a small scale already for lye measurement. Should be accurate to 0.5gm, preferably better. Take care when weighing out lye, it's very hygroscopic. Close the lid again quickly and tightly. I use a balance for small amounts, a post office scale for bigger amounts. I pour it out into a plastic bag and close the bag quickly, adjusting the scale for the weight of the bag. This definitely helps. *Safety equipment - Where to get chem resistant gloves, aprons?? Lab suppliers. *containers - Used jars with metal lids?? Maybe not? Okay for product samples, oil samples, for glyc/ffa - when you want see-through. The seals in the lids might rot after awhile. Otherwise HDPE is better. Identifying plastics http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#plastics For methoxide, use HDPE containers with bungs as well as good lids. See: Methoxide the easy way http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth *filters - coffee strainers, screens (no aluminum I would assume). No ally. I have a resperator for auto painting too. Will that work for these chemicals? I think so. Filters no good for methanol fumes, needs breathing gear - that's a respirator, right? What kinds of containers are suitable for finishing batches? I've seen metal 5 gallon drums on some of the websites. Anyone tried Por-15 as a coating for lining various metal containers? POR-15 is excellent. See report here: Rustproofing, anti-corrosion http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#rust This is a really tough anti-rust paint that is chem and acid resistant. Might be helpful in making marginal metal containers more robust and corrosion resistant or to seal/renew containers with surface rust. Some of the people supplying processors are using it now. You also need syringes/pipettes, measuring flasks, jugs, a thermometer. Hope this helps. regards Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers...
I once made a cheese press that was fairly cheap, that should do what you want. It consisted of two 12 x 12 x 2 planks with holes at the corners, a metal tin (once containing Danish cookies) with the bottom removed and holes drilled in the sides, a round piece of wood that fits comfortably in the tin, a smaller block of wood about half the thickness of the tin, and four long carriage bolts with washers and wing nuts. Place the carriage bolts through one of the blocks, and put it on a flat, hard surface. Place the tin on the block, and place a cheesecloth full of curds (or in this case meat scraps) in the tin. Put the round block on top, then the smaller block on that, and then the other plank. Put the washers and wing nuts, and tighten until the whey (or oil) runs out. Of course this was only able to process about a gallon of curds, so you'd probably have to do a couple of presses to process 15 lbs of juicy meat crumbs. The mechanical leverage of a simple screw is pretty hard to beat, and for under $10 USD it should do what you need. Besides, you'll get to eat the cookies too! If you need something larger, you might check into other cheese press designs. -BRAH -Original Message- From: Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:06 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers... Todd, many years ago I was working in a small tofu production facility, we had a device to press the cooked, ground soybean slurry, to separate the solids from the liquids, to make soy milk, and then into tofu. It was an upright hydraulic press with a 24 inch diameter tub, about 30 inches high, with a drain at the bottom. The plunger was a solid plate fitted to the ram end of the hydraulic cylinder that would fit just inside the tub. The solids were placed in a fine mesh nylon bag. It worked very well. I believe it would work for the problem you state. I've seen similar equipment for making apple cider. For those with tractor hydraulics available, you could use the hydraulic pump off the tractor. Save some money not buying a pump and power source. For smaller scale biodiesel production possibly the same type setup, but with a long lever instead of the hydraulic cylinder. A heavy weight could be placed on the end of the lever and left there for a period of time. Or, another thought...a frame for pressing as described above, but using a tractor hylift jack instead of the hydaulics of the lever. Just some thoughts. Chris Amar Appal Energy wrote: Okay, so it's easy to throw 10 or 15 pounds of burger chips and grill scrapings into a compost heap. What the opossums and raccoons don't get the worms will. But has anyone seen any type of an inexpensive hydraulic ram set up that can get the last drops of fat out of the solids prior to composting? Approximately 10% out of every 250 gallon dumpster is a boatload of high oil content slop. Too much to just feed to the hogs and too much in short order to simply compost without reducing the oil content first. Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor http://rd.yahoo.com/M=245314.3072841.4397732.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1495890/R=0/*http:/www.netbizideas.com/yheb42%20 http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=245314.3072841.4397732.2848452/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1495890/rand=978271734 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Electric generators
I thought I read about a way of converting a common AC motor to an AC generator. Could anyone comment on this? I am also wondering how a generator works where the engine can run at a variable speed while still producing a 60hz [or other] waveform. Thanks for any info. --- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net [archive.nnytech.net] nnytech.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Question
Yes. But I think Keith's war oped wire service is moving to his new yahoo group soon keithaddisonsnewsoftheworldliberleftwingcommiepinkomediaslantororreality checkandgoodsourceofnewsthatyouwontfindoncnnforthinkingpeopledependingon yourpointofviewnewsstoriesaboutthewarandhowtheusawhichihaveneveractually spentmuchtimeinbutihavespentmuchtimeinotherplacesintheworldandcanteachyo uahelluvalotaboutwhatreallygoesonintheseplacesandwhyitallmattersandwhyit maybewereallyneedtoeducateourselvesabouttheworldatthistimeandknowtheroot [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stick around. The other topics come and go, the nuggets are worth the wait. Set up your inbox on your email program to filter and send all incoming messages from your biofuels groups to a separate mailbox. Shunts them off to the side and keeps them from mixing with your other incoming email. Keith described this a week or so ago, it will be in the archives, if you need to know how to get do this. It helps a lot. Regards, Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca ;-) On Monday, March 24, 2003, at 07:08 AM, Bryan Brah wrote: I recently subscribed to this newsgroup so I could learn more about biodiesel, but the vast majority of messages I've seen so far are OPed pieces regarding the righteousness or not of the US invasion of Iraq. As a new subscriber, should I expect to wade through 50+ useless messages a day for a half-dozen topical nuggets? -BRAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Weldless processors
Hi Mark Want to talk about processors? I've got a couple of questions. This is what you first told me about your weldless processors, a while back: the collective's new weldless 55-gallon processor. This thing I built is really, really low-tech (and ugly!). I'm going on the premise that it's easier for people to grind or chisel or otherwise cut metal than to use a torch for anything. I took a 55-gallon drum and turned it upside down, cut what used to be the bottom off, so now I have an open-topped drum with bungs on the bottom. I then used a very common adaptor to fit a water heater element into the 2 bung, and screwed a ball valve into the smaller one. Voila! lowest-common-denominator oil heating rig. Then I bolted up something like the motor/pulley from the fryertothefueltank kind of design (motor on a hinge driving a pulley that's mounted on a crosspiece that sits across the drum and drives a mixer paddle.. So we can have about three of these in a row for almost no money spent, limited only by the massive electric usage of a water heater element - but two of them can be settling, or wash tanks, while one is a reaction being agitated. Yee haw. Below is a more recent message you sent to the list, mostly about seals. We need a bigger processor, rather soon. I have a closed head 55-gal drum, and I'll cut out the bottom and turn it upside down. I managed to find a lid (not easy) with steel strap and rubber (?) seal. So, motors. I have two washing machines and a fridge excess to need. You mentioned a washing machine motor, would these do? They're standard twin-tubs (no pumps). I think they go at about 2,000 rpm - too fast? Do you gear them down with the belt wheels? Do you have any info on which size wheels to use? You use a paint-stirrer as a mixer. I was thinking of a shaft with a propeller welded on, something like Simon's: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor1.html Overkill? Yeah, welding, and we don't have a welder, do have a plumbing torch though, and a helpful friend with a good workshop and a welder. Could also be two propellers with the blades set opposite to create a counterflow. Simon's shaft looks heavy though - too heavy for a washing-machine motor? What gauge would you recommend? Do you set a bearing into the lid for the shaft? Is it more or less airtight? Thinking of methanol recovery, as well as fumes. Do you brace the shaft somehow? Simon has a brace halfway down. Or it could fit a ferrule on the bottom. What size/power electric heating element do you use? I want to fit an electric element, but I plan to use hot water mostly, also like Simon's set-up, once I've figured the plumbing. Compost is providing plenty of heat at between 55 and 68 deg C (130-155 deg F), biogas will provide more eventually, but a vegoil burner will do in the meantime. Also, for pumping methoxide in and oil in and out and so on, would the compressor from the fridge work for this? Thanks Best Keith I've been thinking about the weldless approach a lot lately as I just made some new processors (I demo'ed one at the huge anti-war rally in san fran today, I played around with a 12V pump for an agitator (not a good enough one though it did make some biodiesel while we ran our mouth about how others should too), showed off the anti-war machine, flew banners off of our cars and trucks, and otherwise made fools of ourselves along with a contingent of other biodieslers. Anyway I think there are times when a weldless approach is preferable and times when brazing in fittings makes more sense. I was fooling around trying to figure out some cheap variations on processor design, pushing the bung-side-down and weldless approach as far as I could take it. I have an excess of closed head drums available which is an unusual factor- I got to cut some of them up just for the bungs, and then played with attaching the bungs to other drums... (After two or three months of processor experimenting, I have developed some kind of obsessive disorder or something- I visualize plumbing stuff and weldless processors in different configurations all day and allnight in my head- I dream about these things, I notice that no matter what I am doing, in the backof my consciousness I seem to have some kind of visual of fittings, drums, and pipe layout configurations running through my head. I REALLY need to get a life! really!) Having just gone through all of the options I could think of I'm pretty convinced of the following: 1. if you want to go weldless for a 'starter' processor, use the bungsidedown approach (I don't believe plastics are a good idea at all for processors, having watched my friend melt a plastic tank processor, and watched a lot of others leak) 2. brazing is the easiest way for an amateur metalworker to attach fittings to the thin metal of a drum with the least risk of leaks 3. various compression-fitted connectors spring leaks (and I've as I said experienced
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
My understanding is that the some of the windings have to be excited before the other winding will incite a current. However, this is where my confusion comes in. I am interested to know how one wires up a motor to act like a generator. I'll do some googling Darryl McMahon wrote: Martin, my understanding is that any AC motor will generate if turned mechanically and the electrical circuit is made. However, I believe the frequency (e.g. 60 Hz) is very dependent on maintaining the rpm of the motor (now alternator) at the correct speed. Darryl McMahon To:biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:20:31 -0500 Subject: [biofuel] Electric generators Send reply to: biofuel@yahoogroups.com I thought I read about a way of converting a common AC motor to an AC generator. Could anyone comment on this? I am also wondering how a generator works where the engine can run at a variable speed while still producing a 60hz [or other] waveform. Thanks for any info. --- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net [archive.nnytech.net] nnytech.net -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
AFAIK, the use of an exciting circuit is restricted to DC generators. This is where there is a separate field winding, e.g. shunt, compound or separately-excited configurations. Not applicable to series wound DC motors (which are notoriously difficult to get to work as stable generators). I have an acquaintance who is using a single-phase AC motor as an alternator on a daily basis. He has not mentioned any special wiring set ups. I have used an old furnace fan motor this way, and measured AC current being produced. Voltage was low due to low rpms on the motor. Single phase motor, no extra wiring done. Did not have equipment available to measure frequency. Done just to satisfy my own curiousity. During the 1998 ice storm, there were a couple of articles on this topic stating that if you could find a way to turn the AC motor that was to serve as an alternator, and then just hook up wires from it to the furnace power connections, that should be sufficient to turn the AC furnace fan motor. Darryl McMahon To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:03:39 -0500 Subject:Re: [biofuel] Electric generators Send reply to: biofuel@yahoogroups.com My understanding is that the some of the windings have to be excited before the other winding will incite a current. However, this is where my confusion comes in. I am interested to know how one wires up a motor to act like a generator. I'll do some googling Darryl McMahon wrote: Martin, my understanding is that any AC motor will generate if turned mechanically and the electrical circuit is made. However, I believe the frequency (e.g. 60 Hz) is very dependent on maintaining the rpm of the motor (now alternator) at the correct speed. Darryl McMahon To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From:Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:20:31 -0500 Subject: [biofuel] Electric generators Send reply to: biofuel@yahoogroups.com I thought I read about a way of converting a common AC motor to an AC generator. Could anyone comment on this? I am also wondering how a generator works where the engine can run at a variable speed while still producing a 60hz [or other] waveform. Thanks for any info. --- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net [archive.nnytech.net] nnytech.net -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
Martin, and Darryl, It depends on what type of motor and how you connect it. If it is a commutator or 'universal' motor i.e. it will run on ac or dc, then it will generate if rotated fast enough. However the commutator is effectively a rectifier so you would only get dc out. The old motor car dynamo is a commutator motor, now of course superseded by the alternator. Induction motors, which run on ac only, can be made to generate provided they are run faster than their nominal synchronous speed. E.g. a 4 pole( 2 north, 2 south poles) motor will have a synchronous speed would be 1500 rpm calculated from 50 (cycles per second) *60 ( seconds in a minute) / 2 ( the number of pairs of poles). It will not however, motor at synchronous speed as the rotor needs to slip to generate even enough power to rotate it's own rotor mass without any load. The rated speed is about 1420 rpm ( about 80 rpm slower than synchronous speed ) at full load off 50Hz, but drawing a significant lagging power factor. A 6 pole motor would have a synchronous speed of 1000rpm with rated full load speed at about 930rpm. Scale all the speeds by 60/50 for 60Hz operation The true synchronous motor is called an alternator and they are few and far between if you are on the scrounge, but they are what you get in a pucka genset. Back to the common induction motor, if you run a 4 pole motor at say 1580rpm off 50Hz ( faster than synchronous speed ) it will deliver current provided it is connect to a 50 Hz supply, and there is the difficulty in trying to use it as a free standing generator. It needs to draw a small 50 Hz magnetising current from the mains supply to allow it to deliver power back into the mains supply. It is then called an induction generator. Induction generators have specific applications where they are very useful e.g in hydro electric pumped stations where the purpose is to use the head of water in a high reservoir for supply system load topping ( assist conventional generating sets when on max load --e.g 7a.m to 9a.m.) The water descends turning a turbine which rotates the induction motor ( as a generator to add power to the system ). When the supply system is on minimum load e.g. in the afternoon, the motor is taking power out of the system to pump the water back up to the top reservoir awaiting the next peak demand. All this is economically necessary since it tales such a long time to get generating capacity on stream or to shut it down. It is a sort off flywheel in which energy can be added when spare and extracted when needed. Another application once quite common is to supply leading power factor current to offset the normally lagging power factor load. It is called power factor correction and induction generators do it well. If you use a genset to reduce your needs from the mains supply, or even feed current ( selling power to your supply company ) back into the mains supply if your generating capacity is bigger than your load, then the induction generator is ideal. Think of it as winding the meter back. BUT, the big but, most domestic mains supplies are single phase, and there are few single phase motors around above about 5hp ( approx 4 kilowatt ) so this is about the limit of your home generating capacity if you are on single phase. If you have a 3 phase supply you can generate as much as you like, in reason, since a 40hp 3ph motor should easily be obtained second hand and can supply 30kW as an induction generator when coupled to a typical Diesel ( bioDiesel) car engine. To give the freedom of generating remote from the mains supply, it would be possible to use a small alternator to supply the magnetising current for an induction generator but beware, most alternators would have difficulty in coping with the leading power factor current coming out of the induction generator. I hope this helps. If any one is making progress on this route to selfsufficiency I woulod like to know. sincerely Ken - Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators Martin, my understanding is that any AC motor will generate if turned mechanically and the electrical circuit is made. However, I believe the frequency (e.g. 60 Hz) is very dependent on maintaining the rpm of the motor (now alternator) at the correct speed. Darryl McMahon To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:20:31 -0500 Subject:[biofuel] Electric generators Send reply to: biofuel@yahoogroups.com I thought I read about a way of converting a common AC motor to an AC generator. Could anyone comment on this? I am also wondering how a generator works where the engine can run at a variable speed while still producing a 60hz [or other] waveform. Thanks for any info. --- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net
Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of)
Thor, There is a Centre for Alternative Technology in Machynlleth, Wales, UK, that has done loads of work in the past. Do a search on them for designs. I have not been there for about 15 years but they are still active I understand. Ken - Original Message - From: Thor Skov [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 11:23 PM Subject: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of) OK, I lied, this isn't about biofuels per se, but rather about home energy generation. I am rebuilding my house in Seattle, and want to go with passive solar heating supplemented with an efficient wood fireplace insert (see, biofuels!). My question is about solar water heating. I'd like to use solar panels and recaptured waste water heat to preheat water, store it in tanks, and then pipe it to electric on-demand heaters at the point of usage. Does anyone know of a design for such a system? I really know nothing about such a system, but am frantically trying to educate myself with whatever materials I can find. Any leads or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thor Skov __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hot water tank
what the manufactures are talking about when the say Glass lined they mean 'around' the tank not INSIDE. just my $.02 worth. David Wood bratt wrote: I have recycled a number of water heaters over the years, and have removed tanks from some with decals stating that they were Glass Lined, however, I have never ever found a single tank that was lined inside with anything. They have all been just plain steel tanks. The tanks were used for was grey water disposal. The tanks are drilled full of holes, and burried. The grey water pipe runs, through a large hole I cut, into the tank, and the grey water is released into the tank and seeps into earth through the small holes. The tank eventually rusts or sometimes plugs with dirt and needs replacement after a few years. I have recycled tanks for compressed air tanks, and currently have one which has a welded in bottom. No glass there either. Never saw any glass lined tanks, but I have seen the decals. Have you actually seen the inside of a tank with a glass coating? EdB - Original Message - From: Doug Foskey To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:02 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Hot water tank On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 16:44, you wrote: If I am not mistaken, the glass lined statement was another advertising agency con-job. Glass lined was referring to the thin layer of fiberglass insulation wrapped around a steel tank. They never ever said glass lined tank, although most customers were missled to believe that was what was glass lined. EdB Sorry, you are merely incorrect. Glass lined is just that. The interior of the tank is coated with vitreous glass. The tanks usually fail because the glass cracks (usually nr the fittings) so causing rust, usually quickly, then pinholes. regards Doug Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biofuel business in developing countries.
Hi All, Some time ago I started to write on Biofuel business in developing countries. I now reach a stage where it could be beneficial to ask for comments and suggestions from the list members. The most important suggestions on how to create and organize a biofuel business are not ready, I estimate that it is 20% more needed but you can look at it, http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofueldev.shtml It should be of special interest if I can get comments from members working in developing countries. If you do not want to post your comments, please send them to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Hakan ** If you want to take a look on a project that is very close to my heart, go to: http://energysavingnow.com/ http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site http://playa.nu/ Our small rental activities ** A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. -- Dresden James No flag is large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people -- Howard Zinn Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul. - Unknown Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
Darryl, where do you live? I live in Northern New York. Our electricity was out for about 2 weeks I think. Darryl McMahon wrote: AFAIK, the use of an exciting circuit is restricted to DC generators. This is where there is a separate field winding, e.g. shunt, compound or separately-excited configurations. Not applicable to series wound DC motors (which are notoriously difficult to get to work as stable generators). I have an acquaintance who is using a single-phase AC motor as an alternator on a daily basis. He has not mentioned any special wiring set ups. I have used an old furnace fan motor this way, and measured AC current being produced. Voltage was low due to low rpms on the motor. Single phase motor, no extra wiring done. Did not have equipment available to measure frequency. Done just to satisfy my own curiousity. During the 1998 ice storm, there were a couple of articles on this topic stating that if you could find a way to turn the AC motor that was to serve as an alternator, and then just hook up wires from it to the furnace power connections, that should be sufficient to turn the AC furnace fan motor. Darryl McMahon To:biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:03:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators Send reply to: biofuel@yahoogroups.com My understanding is that the some of the windings have to be excited before the other winding will incite a current. However, this is where my confusion comes in. I am interested to know how one wires up a motor to act like a generator. I'll do some googling Darryl McMahon wrote: -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] veggie oil - lubricant
** Veggie Oil Strain Shows Promise in Car Engines ** Altering the chemical structure of vegetable oil could make the molecule more resistant to temperature changes and increase its use as a supplement to petroleum-based motor oil in automobiles, scientists said on Monday. A team of researchers led by Atanu Adhvaryu at the U.S. Agriculture Department have increased the temperature durability and shelf life of soybean oil by reducing the amount of... To read the article, click here: http://newswatch.cnn.com/ea?ea=tc_scitech,reuters,1048530366067660,0,2003032 4 Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 12:51 am, Appal Energy wrote: Paul, What I was differing with on the high grade vs low grade' aspect was the saturated vs unsaturated aspect that Ken mentioned, with the heavier saturated fats that tend to settle towards the bottom being of lower grade. Cool, so neither of us was wrong, merely failing to communicate or understand - which ever way you wish to think of it... actually, it only takes one to misunderstand, and I'll happily take that role on :-) But now I do understand, thank you. Both saturated and unsaturated make good biodiesel. Just that saturated has a higher cloud point and will exhibit winter associated problems more quickly. I didn't know that. From a materials engineering point of view, I would expect the following to increase cloud point: longer chains chain branching higher polarity e.g. ester/ether/hydroxyl groups or double bonds in the chains, especially 1 or 2 C from one end. so by that rational I would expect unsaturated oils (some percentage of backbone double bonds) to have a higher cloud point Plans to use the waste heat and exhaust are already in the mix for a greenhouse - the CO2 rich exhaust will suit such purposes enormously well. We'll just have to vent before human entry, even though gasifier exhaust contains far less CO than conventional exhaust. let me know how it turns out... I am interested in this sort of thing also. I intend to pass the exhaust gasses from the shed workshop through a spray chamber to scrub and cool them. It will be interesting to see how well that works for engine/heater exhaust too. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Master Puzzler for Biofuelers...
Hi Chris, Todd, All. this made me think of wine presses... which surely would be readily available. My father is a winemaker so I have spent my childhood helping press wine in this way... pulped grapes are placed in PP mesh sacks (e.g. grain sacks) and pressed with a flat round plate and a large screw press in a slotted wood, steel strap reinforced cylinder. the remaining lees are not dry, but only damp and certainly crumbly (and tend to stain the fingers... :-) On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 04:05 am, Chris wrote: Todd, many years ago I was working in a small tofu production facility, we had a device to press the cooked, ground soybean slurry, to separate the solids from the liquids, to make soy milk, and then into tofu. It was an upright hydraulic press with a 24 inch diameter tub, about 30 inches high, with a drain at the bottom. The plunger was a solid plate fitted to the ram end of the hydraulic cylinder that would fit just inside the tub. The solids were placed in a fine mesh nylon bag. It worked very well. I believe it would work for the problem you state. I've seen similar equipment for making apple cider. For those with tractor hydraulics available, you could use the hydraulic pump off the tractor. Save some money not buying a pump and power source. For smaller scale biodiesel production possibly the same type setup, but with a long lever instead of the hydraulic cylinder. A heavy weight could be placed on the end of the lever and left there for a period of time. Or, another thought...a frame for pressing as described above, but using a tractor hylift jack instead of the hydaulics of the lever. Just some thoughts. Chris Amar -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Waste Oil Heater
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 01:58 am, bratt wrote: There are a number of New Zealand companies which sell equipment that could be used to produce small quantities of alcohol fuel, for experimental purposes, and they do sell to Australia. You should be able to buy one locally from a plumbing supply, or hardware. One that has immersion heaters is http://www.spiritsunlimited.co.nz/ Some other links are at http://www.homedistiller.org/links.htm EdB Wacks self over head with 2x4... ofcourse, Home Brew shops! wacks self again for good measure... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 02:13 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..I'm ALL for our Armed Forces using Bio-fuels, I talk about it all the time. I think about 98% of our Vehicles ARE diesel or Kero(air) powered. I think only the civilian based Govt. cars and vans(and some of these are diesel now) are gas powered. Bio-diesel and hybrid cars in the mil. could Add great flexibility and save Tax payers a good amount of $ I would think. Jenn Certainly the ability for military hardware to run on a wide variety of fuels is a significant advantage for any army. seems to me vegi oil is the most likely to be available fuel in any war zone :-) well, maybe after moonshine ;-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Sasol - was [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 04:37 pm, csakima wrote: What would worry me is that ... if for some reason, EMERGENCY(!!), the fire had to be put out ... how would you do it?? Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL the short answer is that you cannot. when the whole terrorist thing started up recently, it occured to me that teh most obvious target in terms of damage to for example Victoria, but equally to most coal bearing areas - e.g. India. would be a deliberately started fire. the thing about coal and shale oil is that it will self combust. brown coal is ~60% water. As it dries out, it cools down. if it getrs wet again, the increase in temperature is sufficient to ignite it. As it dries out more, it oxidises... this again increases the temperature. Once ignited, it is difficult to put out, especially once established. Leave a coal seam alight for a week or two and no amount of water will put it out. In Indonesia, once the fire sight is ID'd the way to kill it is to dig out the seam around the fire (big trench - tens of meters deep) and back fill with soil... then wait for the fuel to run out. the recently put out a fire in a NSW black coal mine - pumped in hydraulic expanding cement to seal the burning area off. took a few years to cool down sufficiently to be called 'out'... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil
You will hear much about how TDI's can'/shouldn't run on WVO, usually from those who have never done it. We beg to differ, and have been running them for 2 years now, The dissidents will tell you 2 years (and over 50k miles) is not a long enough time period to tall, but fail to indicate what mileage they would accept as proof. Meanwhile, we keep driving. In the interests of peace and love, any non-direct injected engine will work wonderfully if the oil is heated properly (there is disagreement on what properly means as well). US kit makers include: greasel (which we sell) greasecar greasemonkey (seems to have disappeared) Canada has Neoteric. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Ben Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge regarding what small diesels run best on used veggie oil. I have read much information on the controversy about DI engines and their ability to run properly and long-term on WVO. Does anyone have any first hand experience with this? I am also looking into older mercedes (S-class in particular) along with newer VW TDI's and older VW's. I've heard that mercedes engines can almost run on lard. Also, there are a slew of conversion kits out there, mostly from Europe - any recommendations? Thanks in advance and cheers, -- Ben - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
in order to maintain 60 hz at multiple rpm's, you need to generate dc, and use an inverter to get ac. not many types of ac motors can be used for ac generators. asynchronous motors can be IIRC. dc permanent magnet motors are interchangeable. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 1:20 PM Subject: [biofuel] Electric generators I thought I read about a way of converting a common AC motor to an AC generator. Could anyone comment on this? I am also wondering how a generator works where the engine can run at a variable speed while still producing a 60hz [or other] waveform. Thanks for any info. --- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net [archive.nnytech.net] nnytech.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
One of the local machinest group members tests salvaged motors from old vcr's, computers. etc., by chucking them in his lathe and spinning them, with a light bulb connected. They are working as an alternator or generator without modification. Ed - Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators AFAIK, the use of an exciting circuit is restricted to DC generators. This is where there is a separate field winding, e.g. shunt, compound or separately-excited configurations. Not applicable to series wound DC motors (which are notoriously difficult to get to work as stable generators). I have an acquaintance who is using a single-phase AC motor as an alternator on a daily basis. He has not mentioned any special wiring set ups. I have used an old furnace fan motor this way, and measured AC current being produced. Voltage was low due to low rpms on the motor. Single phase motor, no extra wiring done. Did not have equipment available to measure frequency. Done just to satisfy my own curiousity. During the 1998 ice storm, there were a couple of articles on this topic stating that if you could find a way to turn the AC motor that was to serve as an alternator, and then just hook up wires from it to the furnace power connections, that should be sufficient to turn the AC furnace fan motor. Darryl McMahon To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent:Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:03:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators Send reply to:biofuel@yahoogroups.com My understanding is that the some of the windings have to be excited before the other winding will incite a current. However, this is where my confusion comes in. I am interested to know how one wires up a motor to act like a generator. I'll do some googling Darryl McMahon wrote: Martin, my understanding is that any AC motor will generate if turned mechanically and the electrical circuit is made. However, I believe the frequency (e.g. 60 Hz) is very dependent on maintaining the rpm of the motor (now alternator) at the correct speed. Darryl McMahon To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent:Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:20:31 -0500 Subject: [biofuel] Electric generators Send reply to:biofuel@yahoogroups.com I thought I read about a way of converting a common AC motor to an AC generator. Could anyone comment on this? I am also wondering how a generator works where the engine can run at a variable speed while still producing a 60hz [or other] waveform. Thanks for any info. --- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net [archive.nnytech.net] nnytech.net -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil
Steve Obviously you are doing it! - I'd like to ask you a question or two. What is your opinion on Direct Injection - say a 3 cylinder Ford Dexta (circa 1958) tractor running WVO for electricity generation - PROVIDING of course the WVO tank is heated? Gary - Original Message - From: Steve Spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil You will hear much about how TDI's can'/shouldn't run on WVO, usually from those who have never done it. We beg to differ, and have been running them for 2 years now, The dissidents will tell you 2 years (and over 50k miles) is not a long enough time period to tall, but fail to indicate what mileage they would accept as proof. Meanwhile, we keep driving. In the interests of peace and love, any non-direct injected engine will work wonderfully if the oil is heated properly (there is disagreement on what properly means as well). US kit makers include: greasel (which we sell) greasecar greasemonkey (seems to have disappeared) Canada has Neoteric. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Ben Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge regarding what small diesels run best on used veggie oil. I have read much information on the controversy about DI engines and their ability to run properly and long-term on WVO. Does anyone have any first hand experience with this? I am also looking into older mercedes (S-class in particular) along with newer VW TDI's and older VW's. I've heard that mercedes engines can almost run on lard. Also, there are a slew of conversion kits out there, mostly from Europe - any recommendations? Thanks in advance and cheers, -- Ben - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
Martin asked: Darryl, where do you live? I live in Northern New York. Our electricity was out for about 2 weeks I think. I am based in Ottawa, Ontario. We are at the edge of the main urban area (inside Greenbelt), and our power was out about 12 hours. After that, we provided support to friends who were without power up to 18 days, about 30 minutes drive from downtown. Since then I have set us up so that old batteries (too weak to power the electric car, but with some reasonable remaining capacity) can power an inverter to run the furnace, I estimate for up to 12 hours of operation before recharging is required (which could be enough for up to 4 days given typical furnace duty cycle, longer if it is warm or the sun is shining). Now that we are ready, I expect we should never require its use (reverse Murphy logic). If I happen to acquire a couple of good sized PV panels, I might put the whole package together as a UPS for the computer - the number of power glitches this winter (under a second) have been rather annoying. I am hoping the province's current misguided campaign to induce folks to install PV panels may result in some bargains in a couple of years. Darryl McMahon Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
Actually, there WAS an AC generator which generated a constant 60Hz output in spite of varying RPM input. It did this with a rewritable rotor. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] in order to maintain 60 hz at multiple rpm's, you need to generate dc, and use an inverter to get ac. not many types of ac motors can be used for ac generators. asynchronous motors can be IIRC. dc permanent magnet motors are interchangeable. - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] I thought I read about a way of converting a common AC motor to an AC generator. Could anyone comment on this? I am also wondering how a generator works where the engine can run at a variable speed while still producing a 60hz [or other] waveform. Thanks for any info. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
not familiar with this type of motor. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators Actually, there WAS an AC generator which generated a constant 60Hz output in spite of varying RPM input. It did this with a rewritable rotor. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] in order to maintain 60 hz at multiple rpm's, you need to generate dc, and use an inverter to get ac. not many types of ac motors can be used for ac generators. asynchronous motors can be IIRC. dc permanent magnet motors are interchangeable. - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] I thought I read about a way of converting a common AC motor to an AC generator. Could anyone comment on this? I am also wondering how a generator works where the engine can run at a variable speed while still producing a 60hz [or other] waveform. Thanks for any info. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:51 am, Darryl McMahon wrote: Now that we are ready, I expect we should never require its use (reverse Murphy logic). If I happen to acquire a couple of good sized PV panels, I might put the whole package together as a UPS for the computer - the number of power glitches this winter (under a second) have been rather annoying. I am hoping the province's current misguided campaign to induce folks to install PV panels may result in some bargains in a couple of years. I came across these guys a while ago - you may find them interesting - flywheel based UPSs... www.beaconpower.com unfortunately requires flash to view the website... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil
Steve Obviously you are doing it! - I'd like to ask you a question or two. And anyone else who may have the time? thanks. What is your opinion on Direct Injection - say a 3 cylinder Ford Dexta (circa 1958) tractor running WVO for electricity generation - PROVIDING of course the WVO tank is heated? Gary - Original Message - From: Steve Spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil You will hear much about how TDI's can'/shouldn't run on WVO, usually from those who have never done it. We beg to differ, and have been running them for 2 years now, The dissidents will tell you 2 years (and over 50k miles) is not a long enough time period to tall, but fail to indicate what mileage they would accept as proof. Meanwhile, we keep driving. In the interests of peace and love, any non-direct injected engine will work wonderfully if the oil is heated properly (there is disagreement on what properly means as well). US kit makers include: greasel (which we sell) greasecar greasemonkey (seems to have disappeared) Canada has Neoteric. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Ben Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge regarding what small diesels run best on used veggie oil. I have read much information on the controversy about DI engines and their ability to run properly and long-term on WVO. Does anyone have any first hand experience with this? I am also looking into older mercedes (S-class in particular) along with newer VW TDI's and older VW's. I've heard that mercedes engines can almost run on lard. Also, there are a slew of conversion kits out there, mostly from Europe - any recommendations? Thanks in advance and cheers, -- Ben - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Sasol ..... Re: Athabasca tar sands
I am not sure who originally posted the information below, but would like to add some points. The estimated amount of recoverable oil in the Athabaca tar sands is approximately 315 billion barrels. Although costly to extract ( operating costs per barrel of oil are about double that for conventional methods ), operating costs have been cut in half over the past ten years, and with production methods improving, can be expected to go still lower. Lower capital costs ( due to the lack of capital required for exploration and exploratory drilling )offset some of the present operating cost disadvantage. We have in Canada, a massive store of petroleum in the Athabasca Tar Sands. Estimates are that it is 400 times (or was it 4,000) times the known regular world oil reserves. It is oil soaked shale, costly to extract. Regards HVD Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
Don't temp us, Curtis - tell us what a rewritable rotor does :) csakima wrote: Actually, there WAS an AC generator which generated a constant 60Hz output in spite of varying RPM input. It did this with a rewritable rotor. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] in order to maintain 60 hz at multiple rpm's, you need to generate dc, and use an inverter to get ac. not many types of ac motors can be used for ac generators. asynchronous motors can be IIRC. dc permanent magnet motors are interchangeable. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of)
epa approved wood stoves contribute very little to smog, etc. gasifying wood stoves even less. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: paul van den bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of) On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:23 am, Thor Skov wrote: OK, I lied, this isn't about biofuels per se, but rather about home energy generation. I am rebuilding my house in Seattle, and want to go with passive solar heating supplemented with an efficient wood fireplace insert (see, biofuels!). my only comment on this is be aware of wood stove emmissions. In cities they seriously contribute to asthma causing smog. they are banned in my local municipality in all new homes... people still install them though... *sigh* My question is about solar water heating. I'd like to use solar panels and recaptured waste water heat to preheat water, store it in tanks, and then pipe it to electric on-demand heaters at the point of usage. Does anyone know of a design for such a system? No hints I am afraid, but one comment I would make is that Si based solar panels decrease dramatically in efficiency when heated. so solar hot water and solar power generation are contra-indicated. infact it is worth your while to water cool you solar panels if you have access to cheap (rain) water... there is a new type of solar panel - DSC - that utilises a different type of electricity generation - nano-particle TiO2 and a photosensitive dye - that increases efficiency with temperature... I was thinking of setting up a parabolic trough lined with alfoil, a strip of these panels and backing them with hot water pipes but I have too many other projects going at the moment, so it will have to wait... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] One Litre Line
as an aside, was boiling sap this weekend for maple syrup, and came across some really neat 15 gallon drums (half of a 30) labeled dr. pepper, a semi popular soft drinks in these parts. complete with bungs and everything a 30 or 55 would have. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 10:03 PM Subject: [biofuel] One Litre Line I hope some of you can help explain to me what I have seen of late. I am a biodiesel novice and no chemist. I have spent a couple of months now building my one-litre biodiesel processing plant. This is intended to model my plans for a larger 100-150 litre setup to come later. But I want to keep my early mistakes small (and I make plenty to learn from). The reactor is a scavenged slow cooker, which does a reasonable job of keeping the mixture at about 50 degrees C at the lowest setting. Agitation is provided by a discarded mix master with one beater that is lowered into the cooker while attached to a plexiglas splatter shield. The settling tank is a 1.8 litre glass jar, and the washing tank is a 2-litre glass jar with 2 small air stones, a 5-gallon aquarium pump, plastic tubing and a large steel washer as a weight. The first batch was done with fresh vegetable oil. I made the methoxide using 200 ml of methanol and 3.5 grams of lye. The titration results were bizarre the first time, and closer to the expected result the second time. I went with Mike Pelly's recommended recipe for the one-litre test batch. I put the oil into the reactor, then the methoxide. All went as expected from my reading. I allowed the mixing to go for about an hour, then drained the lot into the settling tank. The separation began quite quickly, and after a couple of days there was a creamy coloured precipitate layer at the bottom, but less than I expected. I estimate a bit less than 10% of the total volume (say about 100 ml). Does this make sense given it was fresh oil instead of waste oil? I let the batch settle for about 2 weeks, and then transferred the oil to the washing tank, drawing the oil off from the top. I noticed at this time that there seemed to be some dendritic material, almost like wisps of white cotton candy, growing up from the sediment layer. Any ideas on what that is? Onto the washing. I set up the washer with the stones at the bottom of the jar, then added about 500 ml of tap water, more or less the Idaho method, as I understand it anyway. Then I added the oil, a little over a litre, so presumably containing some methanol/methoxide. Before I started the bubbling, there was a significant white layer above the water and below the oil. Reminded me of mayonnaise. I suspect a water/methoxide reaction, as I see no visible reaction when I mixed methanol and water for comparison. Oh, no vinegar used. When I was finally set to go tonight, not a drop to be found in the house. I'll be sure to correct that before the next washing. After I started the bubbling, the mayonnaise came to look more like white aquarium stone or rock salt. Anyway, the wash is under way now. Bubbling froth at the top was ferocious initially, but after 20 minutes it has subsided a lot. The mix is quite opaque and a dark cream colour now. I have had to stop the bubbling a little after an hour, as one of the air stones has disintegrated (12 hours was recommended). It is starting to settle out again, looks like there will be a good pile of whitish precipitate once settling is done. The second batch was made from lightly used vegetable oil (to deep fry a turkey), but has been stored for some time since then. Titration indicated 1.5 ml, so I used 5 grams of lye (1.5 + 3.5) and 200 ml methanol. This batch frothed some during the stirring phase, which I did not notice with the first batch (fresh oil). The separation started slower, but there is much more precipitate this time (at least 25%). However, there are a few of the dendritic white threads suspended in the clearer oil, apparently due to having trapped some bubbles which are keeping them buoyant. I'm sure they'll filter out in the next transfer. So, now that I actually have some experiences to report, I would also like to thank Tom Leue for putting up with us for an afternoon last November when we brought the snow to Massachusetts. His tour of the facility and advice were, and are, much appreciated. So anything you can tell me about what I have described, or any mistakes you can see I am making, please let me know. Darryl McMahon Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 10:55 am, bratt wrote: One of the local machinest group members tests salvaged motors from old vcr's, computers. etc., by chucking them in his lathe and spinning them, with a light bulb connected. They are working as an alternator or generator without modification. Ed Neat! Yet another reason to get a Lathe :-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
Sorry, I wasn't sure if it's what you wanted. (LOL) There was a generator someone made a few years back. I think it was developed by some guy named Roesel() ... or something like that. 'K, now don't all jump me with that can't work!! cause it's only how *I* understand how it works (I could be wrong). #1. Basic template: Automobile Alternator. In a sense that the static field spins inside of the actual power making coils. OK?? #2. It's just that, what spins inside (rotor) is a special type of magnetic material.And other than the actual power-making coils in the stator, there are also special exciter coil which writes on the spinning drum. Think: record head recording on magnetic tape. Or like a floppy drive head. Can you imagine that so far?? So as the rotor turns, the exciter head writes the correct number of poles which, with the current RPM's equals 60 Hz. If the RPM's change, a microprocessor calculates the correct number of poles which would result in 60 Hz. And writes it ON THE FLY. Not only is this a theory but several years ago an ACTUAL alternator was built and tested. It was tested with varying loads and a one-cylinder engine (which of course, has ahem ... excellent speed consistency). Loads were kicked in and out ... the engine did it's thing yet the voltage AND THE FREQUENCY remained constant. Maybe a google search on Roesel might get something I dunno. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't temp us, Curtis - tell us what a rewritable rotor does :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul
Belligerance (belligerant)? Adamance (adamant) would be more accurate. There is an enormous difference. When does one determine that the time for manipulation and game playing has ended? Or when does one decide that mops and doormats are not what humans are designed for? As for undermining arguments, one's own position or circumstance cannot be used to either justify or discount the stance of another or others. Each must stand scrutiny on their own. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Ken Basterfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul Hakan, I understand, but I am concerned Keith's belligerence is undermining his own position and arguments re the belligerents, Blair Bush. sauce for the goose etc. Ken - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul Ken, I am surprised that you could read this message in what I wrote. It is maybe needed that I once again have to say what I sad so many times, that I am afraid to embarrass Keith. I have never seen such a good moderator with sense for what people need to talk about in such a political issue as the energy questions. Sometimes almost all get a little derailed, but he show a large respect and patience with it. I think that it is symptomatic with all this concerns about this attack on Iraq. It is many nationalities on the list and many concerns. No wonder that it is discussed a lot, but at the same time the majority of the postings are valuable interchange of views. It is actually an opportunity the get a true international view from grass root level. The fact that it is so many against the attack and occupation, is representative for what the world thinks about it. According to my opinion, it is all about Iraqi oil and the future will prove it. You are already seeing this in what is happening. Hakan At 08:51 PM 3/23/2003 +, you wrote: Hakan, I think you are right as usual. It is time for Keith to moderate his responses. He is supposed to be the list moderator Ken - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul Keith, I second this and think that Thor is right. I would be surprised if the members of this list supports name calling anyway, it is not my experience. Paul is only hurting himself and I do not think that it is going to escalate to a general behavior if you allow him to do that. Hakan At 09:25 PM 3/22/2003 -0800, you wrote: Keith, I sincerely hope you don't go through with your threat to censure Paul for his comments. I've believed in the sticks and stones approach to debate. If someone resorts to name calling they pretty much lose their audience (unless you're watching Jerry Springer or Rush Limbaugh) and render themselves ineffective. Personal insults are often the result of frustration from the inability to articulate one's thoughts, or from a lack of a good argument. And censorship looks like, well, censorship. Please reconsider. sincerely, thor skov Message: 15 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 03:22:14 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Arrogance of Power and a bunch of other war-related threads Paul Schwartz wrote: except that you're not a dog, I'm not a dog, and its not only dogs that you are killing. Indeed the colonial histories of the France's, Britain's, Portugal's, Spain, etc. to infinity, don't often look too honourable. So why follow their example? Interesting to note that the howling of dogs provides the only early warning of cruise missiles incoming to Baghdad. Its all they've got. Good, let it be known that if any tyrant chooses to threaten the peace of the world and murder his own people to retain his illegitimate power, then the howling of dogs may be the last thing he hears on this earth. Tyrants and fascists--like Andrew-- Pardon me, are you calling Andrew a tyrant and a fascist? You have two choices: justify that or apologize, onlist, without reservation. Not responding is not an option. No further warnings, do it by tomorrow. beware, if you threaten the peace of the USA and we will unleash the dogs of hell on you. Andy, shut up and go away; no one cares what you think. You are (a) wrong and (b) right out of line. Let's get back to bio diesel. And you will not
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..I'm ALL for our Armed Forces using Bio-fuels, I talk about it all the time. I think about 98% of our Vehicles ARE diesel or Kero(air) powered. I think only the civilian based Govt. cars and vans(and some of these are diesel now) are gas powered. Bio-diesel and hybrid cars in the mil. could Add great flexibility and save Tax payers a good amount of $ I would think. Jenn Have you seen the fuel reforming units made by Aspen Technologies? They were designed to allow military units carrying diesel or kerosene to reform either fuel for gas cooking and water heating, and should be usable for bio based oils. This would be an interesting technology to explore for gasoline engines, I think. http://www.idatech.com/technology/fuel_processors.html http://www.aspensystems.com/tech.html The latter link used to describe a fuel reforming unit. http://www.tekkie.com/innovagen.htm robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
Those are DC motors, AFAIK bratt wrote: One of the local machinest group members tests salvaged motors from old vcr's, computers. etc., by chucking them in his lathe and spinning them, with a light bulb connected. They are working as an alternator or generator without modification. Ed -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
