Re: [biofuel] Gardner Watts breakthrough discovery
kirk wrote: > In results independently verified at Bristol University, a team from Gardner > Watts - an environmental technology company based in Dedham, Essex - show a > "thermal energy cell" which appears to produce hundreds of times more energy > than that put into it. If the findings are correct and can be reproduced on > a commercial scale, the thermal energy cell could become a feature of every > home, heating water for a fraction of the cost and cutting fuel bills by at > least 90 per cent. > > Not ordinary electrolysis. > > Kirk > I hope you're right, Kirk, but I'm not holding my breath. I've been a hydrogen enthusiast for many years, and I've seen so many scams come and go in my lifetime that I'm VERY skeptical. . . (Especially when the cell LOOKS like an electrolysis cell and is made up of the same components as an electrolysis cell. A crook named Stanley Meyer was touting such a thing a few years ago, using the same "nuclear" language.) Let the research team publish in a reputable journal, and let's see if anyone else can independently verify the results. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Gardner Watts breakthrough discovery
In results independently verified at Bristol University, a team from Gardner Watts - an environmental technology company based in Dedham, Essex - show a "thermal energy cell" which appears to produce hundreds of times more energy than that put into it. If the findings are correct and can be reproduced on a commercial scale, the thermal energy cell could become a feature of every home, heating water for a fraction of the cost and cutting fuel bills by at least 90 per cent. Not ordinary electrolysis. Kirk -Original Message- From: robert luis rabello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 7:59 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Gardner Watts breakthrough discovery Ed Fransen wrote: > I just came across this story in today's London Daily Telegrah. Anyone care > to comment? > > Take water and potash, add electricity and get - a mystery Let's see. . . Water, potash, platinum electrodes and current. . . It produces heat. . . Could this be plain old, ordinary electrolysis??? Watch your wallet!!! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Cal Energy Commision
Tim Castleman wrote: > Well, as some of you know, the CEC & ARB (Cal Energy Commission & Air > Resources Board) are doing a joint "study" in response to legislation (a law) > to find ways to reduce petroleum use in California. I attended the latest > public "workshop" to offer my silly ideas and hear their good ones. > To sum up, their good ideas were to use natural gas as a straight fuel, to > use natural gas to make Fischer Tropsch blend diesel, and to use natural gas. > Oh, also, they will recommend purchase of a new fleet of govt vehicles > (natural gas) and for good measure there is an extensive study indicating > proper tire inflation will do some good. > There is token mention of E-85, and ethanol - so maybe the new fleet will > include some E-85 ready vehicles. > Biodiesel is also mentioned, so surely the new govt fleet will include some > diesel vehicles that could use it, or maybe be converted to use natural gas. Haven't any of these people done the arithmetic on natural gas? At current rates of consumption, we have eight years' worth of "proved reserves" left in North America. . . I suppose your later (snipped) comment concerning speed has some validity, despite your angst and frustration. It sounds like the people in California want to accelerate natural gas depletion! No wonder I moved away from there! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Gardner Watts breakthrough discovery
Ed Fransen wrote: > I just came across this story in today's London Daily Telegrah. Anyone care > to comment? > > Take water and potash, add electricity and get - a mystery Let's see. . . Water, potash, platinum electrodes and current. . . It produces heat. . . Could this be plain old, ordinary electrolysis??? Watch your wallet!!! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] New Distillers FAQ
> "NEW DISTILLERS" Frequently Asked Questions (Feb'03) > > Posted near the 1st of each month, to the NEW_DISTILLERS newsgroup at > www.yahoogroups.com > > Please email any additions, corrections, clarifications required, etc > regarding the FAQ to Tony Ackland ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), however please direct > any general questions to the newsgroup itself. > > *** > > 1) Is distilling hard to do ? > 2) Is it legal ? > 3) Will it make me blind ? > 4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and fractionating > column ? > 5) How do I get or make a still ? > 6) How do I make a whisky / rum / vodka / gin ? > 7) Should I use sugar or grains ? > 8) Can I use fruit wine ? > 9) How do I make a Turbo-all-sugar wash ? > 10) How do I run a Pot still ? > 11) How do I run a Reflux still ? > 12) Can I use a reflux still to make rum or whisky ? > 13) How do I measure the strength of it & dilute it ? > 14) How do I get rid of that "off-taste" ? > 15) Why do my spirits turn cloudy when diluted ? > 16) How do I flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ? > 17) What web resources are there ? > 18) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ? > 19) Can I run my car on it ? > 20) How do I convert between gallons and litres and > 21) What is a "Thumper" ? > 22) Can methylated spirits be made safe to drink ? > > ** > > 1) Is distilling hard to do ? > > Nope - if you can follow instructions enough to bake scones, then you can > sucessfully distil. To distil well however, will require you to understand > what you're doing, so read around and get a bit of information under your > belt before you begin. > > 2) Is it legal ? > > Probably not. It is only legal in New Zealand, and some European countries > turn a blind eye to it, but elsewhere it is illegal, with punishment ranging > from fines to imprisonment or floggings. This action against it is usually > the result of either religous beliefs (right or wrong), but more generally > due to the great revenue base it provides Governements through excise taxes. > So if you are going to distil, just be aware of the potential legal > ramifications. > > 3) Will it make me blind ? > > Not if you're careful. This pervasive question is due to moonshine lore, > which abounds with myths of blindness, but few actual documented cases. The > concern is due to the presence of methanol (wood alcohol), an optic nerve > poison, which can be present in small amounts when fermenting grains or > fruits high in pectin. This methanol comes off first from the still, so it is > easily segregated and discarded. A simple rule of thumb for this is to throw > away the first 50 mL you collect (per 20 L mash used). Probably the greatest > risk to your health during distilling is the risk of fire - collecting a > flammable liquid near a heat source. So keep a fire extinguisher nearby. > > 4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and fractionating > column ? > > A pot still simply collects and condenses the alcohol vapours that come off > the boiling mash. This will result in an alcohol at about 40-60% purity, with > plenty of flavour in it. If this distillate were put through the pot still > again, it would increase in purity to around 70-85% purity, and lose a bit of > its flavour. > > A reflux still does these multiple distillations in one single go, by having > some packing in a column between the condensor & the pot, and allowing some > of the vapour to condense and trickle back down through the packing. This > "reflux" of liquid helps clean the rising vapour and increase the % purity. > The taller the packed column, and the more reflux liquid, the purer the > product will be. The advantage of doing this is that it will result in a > clean vodka, with little flavour to it - ideal for mixing with flavours etc. > > > > A fractionating column is a pure form of the reflux still. It will condense > all the vapour at the top of the packing, and return about 9/10 back down the > column. The column will be quite tall - say 600-1200mm (2-4 foot), and packed > with a material high in surface area, but which takes up little space (pot > scrubbers are good for this). It will result in an alcohol 95%+ pure (the > theoretical limit without using a vacuum is 96.48 %(by volume)), with no > other tastes or impurities in it. > > 5) How do I get or make a still ? > > If you're after a pot still, these are generally home made using what-ever > you have at hand - say copper tubing and old water heaters or pressure > cookers. You don't really need any plans for these - just follow any of the > photos about. > > Reflux stills can be made from plans on the net, or bought from several > manufacturers. For reflux still plans see > The photos section at http://homedistiller.o
Re: [biofuel] solar colector
On Tuesday, May 20, 2003, at 02:13 PM, girl_mark_fire wrote: > it means having a manifold with valves that can direct the heat > exchange medium to different applications (more expensive > parts-wise) which is what I want to do. > > I'd like to plumb my workshop with steam lines the way some shops are plumbed with compressed air. Then you could have some immersion coils and a few steam-jacketed kettles. Just hook up to the closest steam valve. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: [prep2003discuss2] Toothpaste as poison
Hello Kim >I guess if you like chemicals in your diet. I guess... And no matter what the WHO or FDA or the entire medical profession might say, sensitized folks (doesn't exist, right?) and people with CFS, ME, fybromyalgia, systemic candidiasis, and all the other non-existent modern plagues might have a different opinion of saccharin - just subjective of course, not worth taking any notice of. Eventually epidemiology rescues medical science from much of its foolishness and denial. Or rescues us rather. "Of course we know now..." >If the government really had >our health in mind when they did this stuff, stevia would not have been >banned in 1990 and would be allowed as an ingrediant in food. It only has >a 3000 year history of no harm, it is a calorie free sweetner that as a >side effect, can lower blood pressure a little. The problem with stevia is >that no one can hold a pattent, since it is a direct from the plant food, >so no money to fight the government with. A lot of scaremongering goes this way too, and it's real, intentional scaremongering, by industry interests, much sleazier than that allegedly by groups like the CSPI and many others (Rachel Carson? - silly over-emotional woman!), and generally rather unpolluted by anything resembling science. >However, at least we don't have >saccharin disease, like aspertane disease. Well, if you want to add an "e" to it, whereupon it means refined carbohydrates, whether starch or sugar... http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#cleave Anyway, we forget what's perhaps the safest sweetener, or maybe the only really safe one (gongs bells and trumpets as big banner unfolds reading "ON-TOPIC CONTENT"): Glycerine. :-) "... very sweet, yet it contains no sugar. This makes it an ideal sweetener for patients who cannot take sugar, such as the increasing number of Candida sufferers. Vegetable glycerine is said to be the "only acceptable sweetener" for Candida patients." Best Keith >Bright Blessings, >Kim > >At 12:46 PM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >Kris Book wrote: > > Unfounded scaremongering by groups like the CSPI aside, > >saccharin is a safe, useful non-caloric sweetner. > > > >John > > > > > >-- > >John E Hayes, M.S. > >Doctoral Student in Nutritional Sciences > >University of Connecticut > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Senate Tax Bill Contains Fourfold Increase of SUV Tax Loophole
> >The language in the tax cut bill would allow business owners to >deduct up to $100,000 cost of a new, large-size SUV in just one year. I want to briefly address myself to what strikes me about this, and the objections raised to it by various groups, particularly environmentalist coalitions. These tax break proposals are *hypocritical*. They amount to subsidies by supposed advocates of free market economics. They amount to socialism by supposed advocates of capitalism. They amount to market intervention by supposed advocates of avoiding intervention. This hypocrisy is, in my view, a result of the unresolved contradiction made more apparent during the Reagan years. Supply Side Economics (government spending in a foolhardy fashion in the hope that this will boost the economy) is *not* a policy consistent with free market economics in its most basic sense. And yet no supposed advocate of free markets has been willing to take this on, sufficiently. And so now we return to Bush II, advocating this form of supply side economics, because the vehicles in question are such high-margin high-profit centers for the auto companies. Supposedly this will help safeguard jobs and what-have-you. Not only is it a *lie* that "nobody" wanted this or that electric vehicle, or this or that alt-fuel engineered vehicle, but I think we can see clearly that the deck is stacked very actively against a wide array of fuel-conserving vehicles, with efforts like this. So, the next time someone tries to tell you that "consumers just don't want" this or that vehicle, as determined by the free market, you might point out to them what execrable balderdash this is, ask "what free market?" and generally make clear that manufacturers should not claim that these are the vehicles for which the demand is too strong if they need socialist programs of such scope to make people buy more of them. The tax monies that the Bush ADministration is proposing to forego here will have to come from somewhere. The money is already spent (after all we have a 6 Trillion Dollar Federal Debt or so). But then the business people driving their large SUVs may be able to comfort themselves that they won't have to spend too much time with the other taxpayers whose backs may be literally broken working the extra hours to help defray the costs of buying those vehicles, along with paying for other programs and debts. Anyone who assumes that this President can't possibly be re-elected is making an assumption which, in my view, commits a basic mistake: underestimating a savvy politician who has consistently demonstrated that he should *not* be underestimated. In this respect there are some very strong similarities between President Bush and President Clinton. By appealing to business owners and managers, I think this is a base of financial and other conservativism which may be numerically small, but which will be a significant part of the strong effort to re-elect this Socialist, er, I mean: Conservative. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] FW: Final version of the biofuel directive published.
James, I read trough the Peder Jensen report and did not find it particularly serious. He is obvious in his bios against SVO and is desperately constructing arguments against it. It is deliberately not really clear if he compare the NOx and ultra fine particles with biodiesel or petro. But the statement must be comparison with biodiesel, since NOx for SVO and biodiesel is more than slightly higher than petro diesel. (LOL) (LOL) The report is full of angled arguments i.e. the production quality, which assumes that the oil for food production would have lesser quality demands than for fuel production. I find it very worrisome with this lack of control in the food production and maybe we should stop using it for food also? Must be unsafe for consumption. (LOL) (LOL) The price for SVO would go up because of raised demand and the price advantage disappear. I wonder if he know what the feedstock for biodiesel is? Production of biodiesel would not effect the price? (LOL) (LOL) To be sure that he is not going to be caught, he complains about the difficulty to find any recent investigations and material. Good move and excuse, but a little bit obvious. He fail to draw the logic from his own admissions of the small difference between SVO and biodiesel and the multitude of recent investigations of biodiesels large and positive environmental differences to petrodiesel. (LOL) (LOL) I had many laughs when I read it and it is many more polibatic moves, but after two eye operations, it is too much work to document all of them. The above must be enough to make anybody think a bit. I do not have any strong preferences in either case, but I cannot get any sensible and serious information out of his report. It was probably there as an attempt to stop the acceptance of SVO. Quite a piece of work and qualified BS. Too obvious for my taste. I would be ashamed to get it published, if I ever would write such a report. Hakan At 10:23 PM 5/20/2003 +0200, you wrote: > >From the Peder Jensen report... >The picture that emerges from the tests on modified engines indicate that >emissions of most pollutants are somewhat lower in the case of SVO, >but there is a tendency towards equal or slightly higher NOx emissions and >ultra fine particles. > >I was under the impression that particulate emissions were less than half of >those from petroD. ??? >James Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] fuel max
biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: Hi to all, I came across this in another project and wonder has any-one tried one in conjunction with bio-diesel http://www.hicloneqld.com/fuelmax.htm regards dD Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Toothpaste as poison
hey keith...you're one really smart guy so why reaffirm someone who reacts by calling me some right wing menu item when i just suggested that the row with paul become private...notice i didn't accuse anyone of anything--i was just honestly (perhaps too much so) stating that i believed ego MIGHT be the motivation? c'mon now be kind and FAIR...and neither kris or you have answered my question: what in my original posting gave anyone the reason to accuse me of being some kind of right wing operative--the text is duplicated just below for your objective review...and answer the question please...btw, you're right, maybe i don't know that paul isn't a conspiracy theorist or *company man*...i'll give you that...but how do you KNOW that he IS? whateverrr...quid pro quo has never been so fun ;-) later--i'll just be good person and be very very QUIET from now on... KN Kim, > >Did someone die and leave the moderators job to you in >their will or are you just the newest right wing meat on >the menu? I'm sure there are more than just me around here >who have had enough of the posts sent to this list >supporeted by nothing but opinions. > >I started this thread by asking if anyone had info about >aluminum dioxide and Paul changed the subject so fast that >no one ever did discuss my question. Now, if Paul didn't >make it a habit to put his own personal spin on every >subject he writes about, I wouldn't be taking pot shots at >him. You can either back off and let this drop or bring >your argument to me privately or publicly, makes no >difference to me. > >kris >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/20/03 01:40PM >>> Umph - this has all become rather more poisonous than toothpaste... >kris, > >this email from you is exactly what i meant in my listing...i mean your >cutting wit is too much!after wishing you peace and suggesting that >the negativity get tuned down a little between you and paul, or that it >be done privately, i get this accusatory drivel? *...newest right wing >meat on the menu?* what, pray thee, in my emai would even indicate >this? can anyone else out there tell me? repeat after >me...unsubstantiated extremist labels are bad! ... so go right ahead and apply a few: >my friend...it appears >to me that you are suffering from *itakemyselfmuchtooseriously-itis* or >even the dreaded *hypocrititis*...whateverrr...i hope that this >isn't the diagnosis for all our sakes. So why didn't you take your own advice Kim? Calling Kris a pompous hypocrite, not privately, tunes down the "negativity" you think? A mark of "peace and respect"? >good luck with paul--of course >his postings are his opinions, but he isn't a conspiracy theorist or >*company man* How do you know? I agree with Kris about unsupported opinions, too much opinionating, and we have had enough of it, more than. And this was a bit more than just opinionating, more to it than that. Or maybe less. >...i'm out of this one and this is my last posting on this >nonsense...i gotta admit that it was funny and broke me up... ;-) Really? So, not quite so simple is it, once you get involved. > > keep the disargeements civilized and enlightened Only possible if all concerned are themselves civilized and enlightened, also honest and forthright, which is not always the case. > > folks...egocentricity > > has no place around here...if you choose to persist with > > the negativity, > > don't post to the group--just argue privately and save us > > all the > > vitriolic exchanges. Also not so simple, as you've just found. I think you've also just found that Kris's advice was good - don't try to take on the moderator's role. It's nothing to envy, believe me, not exactly something you'd leave anyone in your will. Vitriol and negativity? Huh- you've no idea what doesn't get this far. Why so many weirdos and nutters are attracted to the gentle world of biofuels is really quite beyond me, but they are. We're all perfectly normal on this list of course. :-) Best Keith Moderator :-( >peace and respect, >kn > >*my concern is not whether you have failed, but rather how content are >you with your failure...* --abraham lincoln > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/20/03 10:59AM >>> >Kim, > >Did someone die and leave the moderators job to you in >their will or are you just the newest right wing meat on >the menu? I'm sure there are more than just me around here >who have had enough of the posts sent to this list >supporeted by nothing but opinions. > >I started this thread by asking if anyone had info about >aluminum dioxide and Paul changed the subject so fast that >no one ever did discuss my question. Now, if Paul didn't >make it a habit to put his own personal spin on every >subject he writes about, I wouldn't be taking pot shots at >him. You can either back off and let this drop or bring >your argument to me privately or publicly, makes no >difference to me. > >kris >--- Kim Nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > keep the disargeements civilized and en
Re: [biofuel] Fire Mitigation
>I forgot to comment that if they don't get going, and the 40 million acres >most at risk burns, before they get started, there won't be much environment >left to study. > >Greg H. http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15933 House Debates Orwellian Logging Bill By J.A. Savage, AlterNet May 19, 2003 Cut down federal forests in order to save them? That's the gist of a bill up for a vote in the House this week. The Healthy Forests Restoration Act of 2003 encourages federal land managers to "conduct hazardous fuel reduction projects." Environmentalists say it will allow 190 million acres the Bush administration claims are "at risk" of forest fire to be logged and will increase timber industry subsidies by $125 million. If passed, as environmentalists expect, the Senate plans to take it up in summer. "We call it the 'Healthy-Stealthy' Act," explains Andrew George, National Forest Protection Alliance campaign coordinator. "It allows logging in the forest when logging is one of the single greatest causes of fires." Environmentalists allege it hands prime forests, including ancient trees, to the timber industry and will lead to decimating precious public lands. Rep. Scott McInnis' (R-CO) HR1904 uses community protection as the Act's raison d'tre - stopping fires from burning down homes and structures at the fringes of the forest. Instead of addressing the development/forest interface, the bill "does nothing" to protect communities, according to George. Pro-logging forces, like the American Land Rights Association, admit the bill will also allow the US Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management, "discretionary authority to limit [environmental] analysis ... meaning the agencies would not be required to analyze and describe a number of different alternatives to the preferred course." The Association adds in a letter, "This legislation is crucial for protecting our air, water and wildlife from insect infestations and catastrophic wildfires." The Society of American Foresters agrees, pointing to, "80 years of the accumulation of fuels - dead vegetation and overly dense stands of trees" leading to an "all-time high" potential for fires. The "stealthy" part of the Act comes from supporters like these who greenwash their intent, say environmentalists. "The greenwashing starts in the bill's title," said Matthew Koehler, Native Forest Network campaign coordinator. He said the proposed legislation would implement the Bush administration's Healthy Forest Initiative launched last summer - following the 2000 wildland fire season, one of the worst in a half-century - using the "guise of protecting communities while severely curtailing citizen participation." Underlying the administration's urgency is its public complaint that environmentalists delay logging plans. In a federal report out May 14, environmentalists were apprised that if delaying logging is their strategy, they are lousy at it. Of the "fuel reduction" plans that environmentalists appealed in the last two years, two-thirds were approved as planned and only 10 percent were reversed. But in so reporting, the investigative arm of Congress, the General Accounting Office (GAO), also noted that if environmentalists' delay tactics are the reason for stripping out public input in the Healthy Forests Act, than that too is a canard. Koehler said that at least the GAO report put the lie to the Bush administration's claim of "analysis paralysis" in invoking the necessity of the Healthy Forests Act. Another key greenwashing in the Act is in the form of Undersecretary for Natural Resources & Environment, Mark Rey. Both environmentalists and the Act's author consider him an important facet of the Bush administration's logging initiative. Environmentalists point to his background as a timber lobbyist for nearly two decades and the author of two pieces of anti-forest legislation. The first was passed into law in 1995 allowing clearcutting ancient forests in the Northwest. The second was not passed. It would have made environmental standards "unenforceable" and fined citizens up to $10,000 for filing appeals, according to the Native Forest Network. "This is the guy behind the rollbacks" of forest environmental rules, noted George. "If the Act passes, it would be considered implementation of the administration's plan," said Koehler, who characterized the bill as one of several that are "payback" to campaign contributors. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, the timber industry contributed $4.6 million to politicians last year - most of which went to Republicans. "The Bush administration has been good at greenwashing - good at using people's fear of fire to limit opposition," said Koehler. "It has also sold the American public a false bill of 'analysis paralysis.' That's the level they'll go to to ensure we will see more logging on public forests." J.A. Savage is an environmental economic
[biofuel] Re: A question about using SVO/WVO in the U.S.
I would love it if you posted some more info on these crackdowns. I hven't heard of any in the united states, other than a rumor that was being spread by World Enertgy that the author eventually retracted and said he didn't actually know the truth about. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Detrick Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does anyone have the evidence to support this? In speaking with an > engineer at the EPA (one I've seen quoted in several news articles > describing crack downs on this type of operation), the EPA won't give > approval for it until extensive testing has been completed. I'd feel > more comfortable if I could carry around the supporting evidence with > me, in case I run into trouble. > > thanks!! > > -detrick > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] solar colector ( was Re: price of methanol )
My idea on a solar collector for BD involves running a heat eschanger. (disclaimer: I've been thinking about this for two years and haven't built it yet, so it's all in my head and needs to get taken with a greain of salt) The reason for the heat exchanger idea is that there are a few different points in the process which could benefit from heat and it seems to me that flexibility would be useful in what you can heat from your solar collector. (preheating before dewatering, then possibly preheating before making fuel (if you dewater on a different day) , heating wash water for less emulsion formation, or heating a wash tank to break an emulsion if it formed), or... all from one set of collecors. It of course means either having a heat exhchanger that you move in and out of a tank (I don' tlike this idea), or it means having a manifold with valves that can direct the heat eschang medium to different applications (more expensive parts-wise) which is what I want to do. The simplest system however is something like a batch water heater- ie a large solar box cooker, with a barrrel of water or a domestic water heater painted black encased in it. the water doesn't circulate in the simplest scenario, the whole batch gets heated all at once and used up all at once . This setup gets water quite hot, and it should work well for water or for oil. Do a search on the internet and you should be able to find a few deigns for this kind of solar batch water heater... mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Brent S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No pics or drawings of it, and I plan on changing the design a bit too. And > haven't figured out if I'll run the oil through it or run a heat exchanger > off of it to the oil. Ill post what I can when I get it finished. > Brent > Saskatchewan, Canada > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Axles of evil
Axles of evil Arnold Schwarzenegger has five. Mike Tyson has four. And they account for a third of all car sales in the US. But now, says Gary Younge, environmentalists are going to war against the SUV It's Tuesday night on the Upper West Side and Adam Weinstock has his work cut out. As we turn the corner on 68th and Lexington, an entire block of sports utility vehicles awaits him. Half car, half truck they present themselves to his eyeline, hood and windshields above the regular vehicles, majestic in their bulk. Navigators, Excursions, Expeditions, Pathfinders, Cherokees and Escalades - names designed to evoke the motoring adventure of the great outdoors parked in the wealthy heart of densely packed Gotham.Weinstock approaches each one with a critical eye. "You'll notice the front grilles," he says, pointing to the bars framing the bumper. "They're particularly important for all the trees you're going to run into when riding around New York City." And then he slaps them with a fake parking ticket. "Violation: Earth," it says. "Open your eyes, take a few deep breaths, and get honest with yourself . . . Why do you need such a huge car? This is not a militarised zone." Ron DeFore, the communications director of SUV Owners of America (SUVOA), says if anyone like Weinstock touched his SUV (what others call a four-wheel drive or off-road vehicle), he would "hire a private investigator, track that animal down and get them put in jail for defacement of personal property". He is tired of "envirocrazies" giving Americans a hard time for their vehicle choice and believes their arguments about the environment and safety are bogus. His message to them? "Get on with your life and stop bitching." The SUV is all the rage. Along with its even bigger, uglier, warlike cousin, the Hummer, it makes up almost a third of all the cars sold in America. It has made "light trucks" the most successful category the US car industry has ever known and one of the most profitable. Indeed its popularity is matched only by the controversy it provokes. Its gas-guzzling reputation has made it the bete noire of environmental activists. In January some SUVs were set alight by protesters in Pennsylvania; in Washington state they have had their windshields smashed; in Massachusetts they were spray-painted with the slogan: "No Blood for Oil". Branded the "axles of evil", they have been the target of a nationwide advertising campaign. They are ticketed in their millions and attract bumper stickers declaring: "As a matter of fact, I do own the road," and "I'm changing the environment, ask me how." The row has transformed the SUV from a car into a national metaphor that envelops just about every hot-button political issue and cultural touchstone from religion to sex, from tax cuts to the first Gulf war. These are iconic cars for iconic people. When OJ Simpson was chased through Los Angeles, it was in a Lincoln Navigator. Arnold Schwarzenegger already owns five Hummers; Mike Tyson has four. As such the light truck is not so much a car as a battleground where traditional allegiances no longer apply. To many young African-Americans, they are ghetto-fabulous - Sean "Puffy" Combs fled the scene of a shooting in one on millennium eve. To affluent, middle-aged whites they are straight-up fabulous - the highest concentrations of SUVs can be found in West Palm Beach, Florida, and Manhattan. Men and women buy them in almost equal numbers, and unions and car makers have been keen to protect them in equal measure. "There is not a left/right divide," says Keith Bradsher, author of "High And Mighty", a telling investigation into the rise of the SUV. "Democrats have been as supportive as Republicans. Nor is there a religious divide." Evangelist Jerry Falwell, who believes that global warming does not exist because "God would not let that happen", is for them. The Evangelical environmental network, which last year launched a campaign asking: "What would Jesus drive?", is against them. "If there is a divide," says Bradsher, "it is between individualists and libertarians on one side against those who see a broader social obligation in vehicle choices on the other." The message from SUVOA's founder on its website begins: "Is this a Great Country or What? Yes it is." Why? "Because we have the freedom to own and operate the vehicles of our choice and to express our belief that freedom must not be diminished because some individuals dislike SUVs." When fighting in Iraq was at its height, Hummer drivers regarded their choice of vehicle as a patriotic act. "When I turn on the TV, I see wall-to-wall Humvees, and I'm proud," Sam Bernstein told the New York Times. "They're not out there in Audi A4s," he said of the troops. That the car should find itself the conduit for this national conversation is not surprising. The average American spends 450 hours each year behind the wheel - more than twice
[biofuels-biz] Axles of evil
Axles of evil Arnold Schwarzenegger has five. Mike Tyson has four. And they account for a third of all car sales in the US. But now, says Gary Younge, environmentalists are going to war against the SUV It's Tuesday night on the Upper West Side and Adam Weinstock has his work cut out. As we turn the corner on 68th and Lexington, an entire block of sports utility vehicles awaits him. Half car, half truck they present themselves to his eyeline, hood and windshields above the regular vehicles, majestic in their bulk. Navigators, Excursions, Expeditions, Pathfinders, Cherokees and Escalades - names designed to evoke the motoring adventure of the great outdoors parked in the wealthy heart of densely packed Gotham.Weinstock approaches each one with a critical eye. "You'll notice the front grilles," he says, pointing to the bars framing the bumper. "They're particularly important for all the trees you're going to run into when riding around New York City." And then he slaps them with a fake parking ticket. "Violation: Earth," it says. "Open your eyes, take a few deep breaths, and get honest with yourself . . . Why do you need such a huge car? This is not a militarised zone." Ron DeFore, the communications director of SUV Owners of America (SUVOA), says if anyone like Weinstock touched his SUV (what others call a four-wheel drive or off-road vehicle), he would "hire a private investigator, track that animal down and get them put in jail for defacement of personal property". He is tired of "envirocrazies" giving Americans a hard time for their vehicle choice and believes their arguments about the environment and safety are bogus. His message to them? "Get on with your life and stop bitching." The SUV is all the rage. Along with its even bigger, uglier, warlike cousin, the Hummer, it makes up almost a third of all the cars sold in America. It has made "light trucks" the most successful category the US car industry has ever known and one of the most profitable. Indeed its popularity is matched only by the controversy it provokes. Its gas-guzzling reputation has made it the bete noire of environmental activists. In January some SUVs were set alight by protesters in Pennsylvania; in Washington state they have had their windshields smashed; in Massachusetts they were spray-painted with the slogan: "No Blood for Oil". Branded the "axles of evil", they have been the target of a nationwide advertising campaign. They are ticketed in their millions and attract bumper stickers declaring: "As a matter of fact, I do own the road," and "I'm changing the environment, ask me how." The row has transformed the SUV from a car into a national metaphor that envelops just about every hot-button political issue and cultural touchstone from religion to sex, from tax cuts to the first Gulf war. These are iconic cars for iconic people. When OJ Simpson was chased through Los Angeles, it was in a Lincoln Navigator. Arnold Schwarzenegger already owns five Hummers; Mike Tyson has four. As such the light truck is not so much a car as a battleground where traditional allegiances no longer apply. To many young African-Americans, they are ghetto-fabulous - Sean "Puffy" Combs fled the scene of a shooting in one on millennium eve. To affluent, middle-aged whites they are straight-up fabulous - the highest concentrations of SUVs can be found in West Palm Beach, Florida, and Manhattan. Men and women buy them in almost equal numbers, and unions and car makers have been keen to protect them in equal measure. "There is not a left/right divide," says Keith Bradsher, author of "High And Mighty", a telling investigation into the rise of the SUV. "Democrats have been as supportive as Republicans. Nor is there a religious divide." Evangelist Jerry Falwell, who believes that global warming does not exist because "God would not let that happen", is for them. The Evangelical environmental network, which last year launched a campaign asking: "What would Jesus drive?", is against them. "If there is a divide," says Bradsher, "it is between individualists and libertarians on one side against those who see a broader social obligation in vehicle choices on the other." The message from SUVOA's founder on its website begins: "Is this a Great Country or What? Yes it is." Why? "Because we have the freedom to own and operate the vehicles of our choice and to express our belief that freedom must not be diminished because some individuals dislike SUVs." When fighting in Iraq was at its height, Hummer drivers regarded their choice of vehicle as a patriotic act. "When I turn on the TV, I see wall-to-wall Humvees, and I'm proud," Sam Bernstein told the New York Times. "They're not out there in Audi A4s," he said of the troops. That the car should find itself the conduit for this national conversation is not surprising. The average American spends 450 hours each year behind the wheel - more than twice
Re: [biofuel] Toothpaste as poison
Umph - this has all become rather more poisonous than toothpaste... >kris, > >this email from you is exactly what i meant in my listing...i mean your >cutting wit is too much!after wishing you peace and suggesting that >the negativity get tuned down a little between you and paul, or that it >be done privately, i get this accusatory drivel? *...newest right wing >meat on the menu?* what, pray thee, in my emai would even indicate >this? can anyone else out there tell me? repeat after >me...unsubstantiated extremist labels are bad! ... so go right ahead and apply a few: >my friend...it appears >to me that you are suffering from *itakemyselfmuchtooseriously-itis* or >even the dreaded *hypocrititis*...whateverrr...i hope that this >isn't the diagnosis for all our sakes. So why didn't you take your own advice Kim? Calling Kris a pompous hypocrite, not privately, tunes down the "negativity" you think? A mark of "peace and respect"? >good luck with paul--of course >his postings are his opinions, but he isn't a conspiracy theorist or >*company man* How do you know? I agree with Kris about unsupported opinions, too much opinionating, and we have had enough of it, more than. And this was a bit more than just opinionating, more to it than that. Or maybe less. >...i'm out of this one and this is my last posting on this >nonsense...i gotta admit that it was funny and broke me up... ;-) Really? So, not quite so simple is it, once you get involved. > > keep the disargeements civilized and enlightened Only possible if all concerned are themselves civilized and enlightened, also honest and forthright, which is not always the case. > > folks...egocentricity > > has no place around here...if you choose to persist with > > the negativity, > > don't post to the group--just argue privately and save us > > all the > > vitriolic exchanges. Also not so simple, as you've just found. I think you've also just found that Kris's advice was good - don't try to take on the moderator's role. It's nothing to envy, believe me, not exactly something you'd leave anyone in your will. Vitriol and negativity? Huh- you've no idea what doesn't get this far. Why so many weirdos and nutters are attracted to the gentle world of biofuels is really quite beyond me, but they are. We're all perfectly normal on this list of course. :-) Best Keith Moderator :-( >peace and respect, >kn > >*my concern is not whether you have failed, but rather how content are >you with your failure...* --abraham lincoln > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/20/03 10:59AM >>> >Kim, > >Did someone die and leave the moderators job to you in >their will or are you just the newest right wing meat on >the menu? I'm sure there are more than just me around here >who have had enough of the posts sent to this list >supporeted by nothing but opinions. > >I started this thread by asking if anyone had info about >aluminum dioxide and Paul changed the subject so fast that >no one ever did discuss my question. Now, if Paul didn't >make it a habit to put his own personal spin on every >subject he writes about, I wouldn't be taking pot shots at >him. You can either back off and let this drop or bring >your argument to me privately or publicly, makes no >difference to me. > >kris >--- Kim Nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > keep the disargeements civilized and enlightened > > folks...egocentricity > > has no place around here...if you choose to persist with > > the negativity, > > don't post to the group--just argue privately and save us > > all the > > vitriolic exchanges. > > > > peace2u and whateverr ;-) > > > > kn > > > > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/20/03 09:57AM >>> > > Well Paul, I certainly prefer Keith's link to an article > > on > > his web site (plus ten links to similar sites), to your > > long dissertation backed up by nothing your "status quo" > > opinions. Are you trying to insure that next year's grant > > money will be available by acting like a good little > > soldier or are you just a born "company man". > > > > > > > > > > I think this is the real comparison here, I'm sure > > > the listers who > > > > > know about it (quite a few) will agree: > > > > > > > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/text_price.html > > > > > The Darwin of nutrition > > > > > > > >O - K sure, back up your arguement with an > > article > > > on your own web site! > > > >nice! (damn it, now I am getting accusitory! see how > > > this rhetoric attack > > > >stuff works! it sucks you into arguements that you > > > didn;t want, wastes your > > > >time, drags you into vitrolic personal attacks against > > > people you'd rather > > > >just ignore or get along with!) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey t
Re: [biofuel] FW: Final version of the biofuel directive published.
>From the Peder Jensen report... The picture that emerges from the tests on modified engines indicate that emissions of most pollutants are somewhat lower in the case of SVO, but there is a tendency towards equal or slightly higher NOx emissions and ultra fine particles. I was under the impression that particulate emissions were less than half of those from petroD. ??? James Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] US government surplus diesel stuff
Hope you have a lot of money and time, the bidding gets hot. Greg H. ---Original Message--- From: Alan Petrillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 05/20/03 11:27 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] US government surplus diesel stuff > > http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/list?cmd=event&eventId=825";>http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/list?cmd=event&eventId=825 Have fun! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Toothpaste as poison
kris, this email from you is exactly what i meant in my listing...i mean your cutting wit is too much!after wishing you peace and suggesting that the negativity get tuned down a little between you and paul, or that it be done privately, i get this accusatory drivel? *...newest right wing meat on the menu?* what, pray thee, in my emai would even indicate this? can anyone else out there tell me? repeat after me...unsubstantiated extremist labels are bad! my friend...it appears to me that you are suffering from *itakemyselfmuchtooseriously-itis* or even the dreaded *hypocrititis*...whateverrr...i hope that this isn't the diagnosis for all our sakes. good luck with paul--of course his postings are his opinions, but he isn't a conspiracy theorist or *company man*...i'm out of this one and this is my last posting on this nonsense...i gotta admit that it was funny and broke me up... ;-) peace and respect, kn *my concern is not whether you have failed, but rather how content are you with your failure...* --abraham lincoln >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/20/03 10:59AM >>> Kim, Did someone die and leave the moderators job to you in their will or are you just the newest right wing meat on the menu? I'm sure there are more than just me around here who have had enough of the posts sent to this list supporeted by nothing but opinions. I started this thread by asking if anyone had info about aluminum dioxide and Paul changed the subject so fast that no one ever did discuss my question. Now, if Paul didn't make it a habit to put his own personal spin on every subject he writes about, I wouldn't be taking pot shots at him. You can either back off and let this drop or bring your argument to me privately or publicly, makes no difference to me. kris --- Kim Nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > keep the disargeements civilized and enlightened > folks...egocentricity > has no place around here...if you choose to persist with > the negativity, > don't post to the group--just argue privately and save us > all the > vitriolic exchanges. > > peace2u and whateverr ;-) > > kn > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/20/03 09:57AM >>> > Well Paul, I certainly prefer Keith's link to an article > on > his web site (plus ten links to similar sites), to your > long dissertation backed up by nothing your "status quo" > opinions. Are you trying to insure that next year's grant > money will be available by acting like a good little > soldier or are you just a born "company man". > > > > > > > I think this is the real comparison here, I'm sure > > the listers who > > > > know about it (quite a few) will agree: > > > > > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/text_price.html > > > > The Darwin of nutrition > > > > > >O - K sure, back up your arguement with an > article > > on your own web site! > > >nice! (damn it, now I am getting accusitory! see how > > this rhetoric attack > > >stuff works! it sucks you into arguements that you > > didn;t want, wastes your > > >time, drags you into vitrolic personal attacks against > > people you'd rather > > >just ignore or get along with!) > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list > address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list > address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubs
RE: [biofuel] Hydrogen Fuel Leak Simulation Dr. Michael R. Swain
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. If we only judge information on how politically correct the source is then we may as well join the crowd and burn the heretics at the stake. The migration rate of hydrogen is such that even though it has the widest flammability range of any gas it is less of a hazard than methane given the same small leak. I think the thrust of this comment is that replacing methane with hydrogen for cooking may be not the danger many think it is. As for crack-pot the name of Immanuel Velikovsky comes to mind. When he was vindicated and the bastions of knowledge were found to be incorrect the lack of apology was appalling. I am not impressed with that kind of behavior. Argumentum ad hominum is pathetically weak and should be abstained from. The facts should be adequate for discussion. Kirk -Original Message- From: paul van den bergen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 7:35 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen Fuel Leak Simulation Dr. Michael R. Swain On Sun, 18 May 2003 11:08 am, kirk wrote: > http://www.unusualresearch.com/Hydrogen/hydrogen.htm Hi all. personally I wouldn't trust anything coming from a site that, to my mind, has all the hallmarks of a "crack-pot" science site On the other hand, hydrogen is well know to have a smaller explosive fuel/air mixture range that petrol. that's not the problem, however, as the small size of H2 is such that it is very difficult to contain, it does not compress well (to a liquid) and has a significant role in embrittling metals, especially welds. consequently the reason H is difficult (and hence expensive) to deal with is the cost of ensuring it does not leak. Especially compared to things like methane and the higher hydrocarbons and alcohols. Metal hydrides, on the other hand, are a different matter, if they can be made to work on a continuous duty cycle. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: [prep2003discuss2] Toothpaste as poison
I guess if you like chemicals in your diet. If the government really had our health in mind when they did this stuff, stevia would not have been banned in 1990 and would be allowed as an ingrediant in food. It only has a 3000 year history of no harm, it is a calorie free sweetner that as a side effect, can lower blood pressure a little. The problem with stevia is that no one can hold a pattent, since it is a direct from the plant food, so no money to fight the government with. However, at least we don't have saccharin disease, like aspertane disease. Bright Blessings, Kim At 12:46 PM 5/20/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Kris Book wrote: > Unfounded scaremongering by groups like the CSPI aside, >saccharin is a safe, useful non-caloric sweetner. > >John > > >-- >John E Hayes, M.S. >Doctoral Student in Nutritional Sciences >University of Connecticut >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: NBB and health effects data
Asking again - this needs a test case - has there been a test case? Does anybody know, or have anything to add to this? Thanks Keith >There's been a lot of discussion here and elsewhere about >small-producer certification, and a lot of confusion too, it seems. >On the one hand there's been quite a lot of talk of conspiracies to >exclude the small guys, which I don't think is warranted, and on the >other the EPA has said different things at different times. > >The EPA requires registration of all fuel producers for non-standard >fuels used on-road, which includes biodiesel, and the fuels must be >tested. The NBB put a sample of soy biodiesel through the required >Clean Air Act Tier I and Tier II Health Effects tests, and it passed >(the only alternative fuel so far to do so). The tests also covered >biodiesel made from other feedstocks, such as corn oil, lard, tallow, >WVO, etc., as the differences between them are not significant. The >Tier II tests were federally funded and are thus in the public >domain, anyone can use them. The Tier I tests were funded by the >Soybean Councils and largely paid for with soy check-off dollars. The >non-profit NBB was created by the Soybean Councils, which are still >the major force within the NBB. The check-off money used for the >biodiesel Tier I tests could have been used elsewhere, and the >NBB/Soybean Councils want it back. > >To gain access to the data you'd either have to join the NBB and pay >a $5,000 per annum membership fee plus a production tax - or - pay a >$100,000 bond to the NBB for non-member access to the Health Effects >Data (to be returned at face value, without interest, in 2015, if the >NBB has recovered the costs of the tests by then) - or - pay more >than $1 million for your own Tier I health effects tests, which will >take a few years - or - be prepared to face EPA fines of $25,000 per >day, which could be retroactive. > >The issue is whether small producers are or are not exempt from >paying for access to the health effects data. There are supposed to >be exemptions for small producers, but it's been said they didn't >apply, and one small producer - Tom Leue's Yellow Biodiesel - was >apparently closed down on this account, or at least stopped from >selling his fuel for on-road use. > >The "small business exemptions" depend on which family/category the >fuel/additive falls into. If the "product" is considered baseline or >non-baseline, then manufacturers with total annual sales of less than >$50 million are not required to meet Tier I or Tier II. If the >product is considered "atypical", then manufacturers with total >annual sales of less than $10 mil are not required to meet Tier II >(Tier I still applies). There are three diesel categories in the >Diesel Family: Baseline Diesel, Non-Baseline Diesel, and Atypical >[diesel]. > >Baseline Diesel is comprised of diesel fuels and associated additives >which satisfy ALL of the following criteria: shall contain no >elements other than carbon, hydrogen, oxygen (<1%), nitrogen and >sulfur (no more than the legal limit for highway diesel). Baseline >Diesel must possess the characteristics of ASTM D 975-93. Baseline >Diesel must be derived from conventional petroleum sources only. >(40CFR79.56(e)3(ii)A) > >Non-baseline Diesel must meet all the criteria of baseline diesel >except: oxygen can be 1% or higher (no specified limit) and it can >include diesel fuel and additives which may be derived from synthetic >crudes, such as those prepared from coal, shale, tar sands, heavy oil >deposits, and other non-conventional petroleum sources. > >Atypical Diesel comprises diesel and additives which contain one or >more elements other than carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, and >sulfur. (40CFR79.56(e)3(ii)C) No mention of source. > >According to this, biodiesel (either as a fuel or an additive) >doesn't meet Baseline or Non-Baseline because its made from >non-petroleum sources. > >Joe Sopata of the EPA has stated that any blend of 6% biodiesel or >less was considered a non-baseline fuel, and anything over 6% was >considered atypical, and therefore not subject to the Tier 1 >exemption. But we could not find these definitions in any EPA >documents. > >What we dcid find in an EPA document is this: "An exception is >biodiesel, which is one group, even though it consists of mixed alkyl >esters of plant and/or animal origin." >http://www.epa.gov/icr/icrs/icrpages/1696ss03.htm > >This makes biodiesel a non-baseline diesel group, and thus exempt >from Tier I and Tier II testing for producers with total annual sales >of less than $50 million. > >For more on this, see Thor Skov's post below. > >Joe Sopata has since said, in answer to enquiries, that producers who >sell less than $10,000,000 annually are exempt from Tier I and Tier >II as long as their fuel meets the ASTM standard (ASTM D-6751). > >This is what I was told: > >"Joe Sopata again stated that fuels meeting all ASTM standards for >biodiesel are eligible for the
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: [prep2003discuss2] Toothpaste as poison
Doug Foskey wrote: > When you use reverse Osmosis, the water is de-mineralised. This tends > to strip trace elements from the body, which is detrimental to health. > How do you protect against that? regards Doug > > > You have got to be kidding me. Are you photosynthetic or something? If not, the solid food you ingest will have plenty of minerals. Frankly, I'd far rather drink R.O. water, avoid the heavy metals and other nasties, and eat a damn banana to balance my electrolytes. John -- John E Hayes, M.S. Doctoral Student in Nutritional Sciences University of Connecticut [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Senate Tax Bill Contains Fourfold Increase of SUV Tax Loophole
http://ens-news.com/ens/may2003/2003-05-19-09.asp#anchor3 Senate Tax Bill Contains Fourfold Increase of SUV Tax Loophole WASHINGTON, DC, May 19, 2003 (ENS) - The $350 billion tax cut passed by the Senate late last week contains a $100,000 tax break for buyers of the largest, least fuel efficient sport utility vehicles (SUVs). This fourfold increase of the existing tax break effectively subsidizes the full purchase price for 38 of the largest and most expensive SUV models on the American road, according to the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC). "Forget zero-percent financing. This is a six-figure loophole big enough for a Hummer," said Dan Lashof of NRDC. "And that is just what every American taxpayer will be footing the bill for if this measure becomes law." The language in the tax cut bill would allow business owners to deduct up to $100,000 cost of a new, large-size SUV in just one year. The original tax break for large SUVs was intended to help farmers, contractors and other buyers of working trucks, Lashof explained, not the owners of well-heeled luxury vehicles. It applies only to vehicles that weigh more than 6,000 pounds, including the Hummer, the Range Rover and the Cadillac Escalade. The expanded SUV deduction will cost taxpayers billions, according to the congressional Joint Tax Committee, and environmentalists argue the tax break encourages the use of some of the nation's least fuel efficient and most polluting vehicles. The House and the Senate will have to reconcile competing versions of the bill before sending the final bill version to the White House and the SUV tax break increase could still be removed. "It is an unfair subsidy for select buyers of the biggest, most expensive SUVs," Lashof said. "The Senate bill makes us more dependent on Middle East oil at the very time we should be kicking the petroleum addiction." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Senate Tax Bill Contains Fourfold Increase of SUV Tax Loophole
http://ens-news.com/ens/may2003/2003-05-19-09.asp#anchor3 Senate Tax Bill Contains Fourfold Increase of SUV Tax Loophole WASHINGTON, DC, May 19, 2003 (ENS) - The $350 billion tax cut passed by the Senate late last week contains a $100,000 tax break for buyers of the largest, least fuel efficient sport utility vehicles (SUVs). This fourfold increase of the existing tax break effectively subsidizes the full purchase price for 38 of the largest and most expensive SUV models on the American road, according to the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC). "Forget zero-percent financing. This is a six-figure loophole big enough for a Hummer," said Dan Lashof of NRDC. "And that is just what every American taxpayer will be footing the bill for if this measure becomes law." The language in the tax cut bill would allow business owners to deduct up to $100,000 cost of a new, large-size SUV in just one year. The original tax break for large SUVs was intended to help farmers, contractors and other buyers of working trucks, Lashof explained, not the owners of well-heeled luxury vehicles. It applies only to vehicles that weigh more than 6,000 pounds, including the Hummer, the Range Rover and the Cadillac Escalade. The expanded SUV deduction will cost taxpayers billions, according to the congressional Joint Tax Committee, and environmentalists argue the tax break encourages the use of some of the nation's least fuel efficient and most polluting vehicles. The House and the Senate will have to reconcile competing versions of the bill before sending the final bill version to the White House and the SUV tax break increase could still be removed. "It is an unfair subsidy for select buyers of the biggest, most expensive SUVs," Lashof said. "The Senate bill makes us more dependent on Middle East oil at the very time we should be kicking the petroleum addiction." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Toothpaste as poison
Kim, Did someone die and leave the moderators job to you in their will or are you just the newest right wing meat on the menu? I'm sure there are more than just me around here who have had enough of the posts sent to this list supporeted by nothing but opinions. I started this thread by asking if anyone had info about aluminum dioxide and Paul changed the subject so fast that no one ever did discuss my question. Now, if Paul didn't make it a habit to put his own personal spin on every subject he writes about, I wouldn't be taking pot shots at him. You can either back off and let this drop or bring your argument to me privately or publicly, makes no difference to me. kris --- Kim Nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > keep the disargeements civilized and enlightened > folks...egocentricity > has no place around here...if you choose to persist with > the negativity, > don't post to the group--just argue privately and save us > all the > vitriolic exchanges. > > peace2u and whateverr ;-) > > kn > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/20/03 09:57AM >>> > Well Paul, I certainly prefer Keith's link to an article > on > his web site (plus ten links to similar sites), to your > long dissertation backed up by nothing your "status quo" > opinions. Are you trying to insure that next year's grant > money will be available by acting like a good little > soldier or are you just a born "company man". > > > > > > > I think this is the real comparison here, I'm sure > > the listers who > > > > know about it (quite a few) will agree: > > > > > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/text_price.html > > > > The Darwin of nutrition > > > > > >O - K sure, back up your arguement with an > article > > on your own web site! > > >nice! (damn it, now I am getting accusitory! see how > > this rhetoric attack > > >stuff works! it sucks you into arguements that you > > didn;t want, wastes your > > >time, drags you into vitrolic personal attacks against > > people you'd rather > > >just ignore or get along with!) > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list > address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list > address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A question about using SVO/WVO in the U.S.
Hello Detrick Aren't you confusing SVO/WVO with biodiesel? With biodiesel, the situation with the EPA etc is summed up here: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=24742&list=BIOFUEL Please, everybody, this needs a test case - has there been a test case? Does anybody know, or have anything to add to this? >Does anyone have the evidence to support this? In speaking with an >engineer at the EPA (one I've seen quoted in several news articles >describing crack downs on this type of operation), Which one? He was talking about SVO/WVO? >the EPA won't give >approval for it until extensive testing has been completed. I'd feel >more comfortable if I could carry around the supporting evidence with >me, in case I run into trouble. Re SVO/WVO, Hakan's right, it has been discussed, and will thus be in the archives, but I don't remember the details. There are plenty of US SVO'ers here who should know, however. By the way, which archives did you use - not Yahoo's, I hope? Nightmare! Use Martin's archives at NNYtech, if you haven't already been doing so, much better - Biofuel, and Biofuels-biz: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php Best Keith >thanks!! > >-detrick > >Hakan wrote: > > Detrick, > > > > It has been discussed and as far as I understood it, > > it is legal to produce and use up to a specified amount > > during the year. I do not remember the amount, but it > > was enough for extensive driving of a large SUV, or > > driving two smaller family cars. Something around > > 1,500 gallon a year. The conclusion is that it is legal, > > but for commercial the taxes have to be paid. > > > > Hakan > > > > > > At 01:11 PM 5/20/2003 +, you wrote: > > > >>I've searched the archive trying to find information on this, and > >>haven't found any yet (although I must say, this list has a HUGE > >>archive!). > >> > >>Does anyone know about any legal hitches with using SVO/WVO in the > >>U.S.? I seem to be able to find companies selling kits to allow > >>SVO/WVO to be used in a diesel engine. None of them, so far, have > >>been able to give me any support or ideas on whether or not it's > >>legal! They all either don't care, or tell me it's not their > >>responsibility to research these things. > >> > >>thanks for any insight, > >> > >>detrick Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] US government surplus diesel stuff
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/list?cmd=event&eventId=825 Have fun! AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] FW: Final version of the biofuel directive published.
-Original Message- From: Niels Ans¿ - FC [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 May 2003 14:14 To: Int. Pure Plant Oil Group Subject: Final version of the biofuel directive published. News about Pure Plant Oil for Transportation - May 20th., 2003 The final version of the European biofuel directive published. The final version of the European biofuel directive, Directive 2003/30/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 8 May 2003 on the promotion of the use of biofuels or other renewable fuels for transport was published in the Official Journal of the European Union, L 123 Volume 46, 17 May 2003 Pure Plant Oil (PPO) is hereby formally recognized as a biofuel together with other biofuels such as biodiesel and bioethanol, by specific mentioning Pure Vegetable Oil (PVO) under Whereas:12) Pure vegetable oil from oil plants produced through pressing,extraction or comparable procedures,crude or refined but chemically unmodified,can also be used as biofuel in specific cases where its use is compatible with the type of engines involved and the corresponding emission requirements. and Article 2.2 At least the products listed below shall be considered biofuels: (a)Îbioethanol â:ethanol produced from biomass and/or the biodegradable fraction of waste,to be used as biofuel; (b)Îbiodiesel â:a methyl-ester produced from vegetable or animal oil,of diesel quality,to be used as biofuel; (c)Îbiogas â:a fuel gas produced from biomass and/or from the biodegradable fraction of waste,that can be purified to natural gas quality,to be used as biofuel,or woodgas; (d)Îbiomethanol â:methanol produced from biomass,to be used as biofuel; (e)Îbiodimethylether â:dimethylether produced from biomass, to be used as biofuel; (f)Îbio-ETBE (ethyl-tertio-butyl-ether)â:ETBE produced on the basis of bioethanol.The percentage by volume of bio-ETBE that is calculated as biofuel is 47 %; (g)Îbio-MTBE (methyl-tertio-butyl-ether)â:a fuel produced on the basis of biomethanol.The percentage by volume of bio-MTBE that is calculated as biofuel is 36 %; (h)Îsynthetic biofuels â:synthetic hydrocarbons or mixtures of synthetic hydrocarbons,which have been produced from biomass; (i)Îbiohydrogen â:hydrogen produced from biomass,and/or from the biodegradable fraction of waste,to be used as biofuel; (j)Îpure vegetable oil â:oil produced from oil plants through pressing,extraction or comparable procedures,crude or refined but chemically unmodified,when compatible with the type of engines involved and the corresponding emission requirements. The complete document can be downlaoded from http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/oj/2003/l_12320030517en.html (select your language, and download from page 42) The following are direct links to the English , German , French and Spanish versions. Relevant link: Article "Unmodified Vegetable Oil as an Automotive Fuel", by Peder Jensen, IPTS/JRC, Spain. Available in English at http://www.jrc.es/pages/iptsreport/vol74/english/TRA1E746.htm. Soon it will be available in French, Spanish and German (see http://www.jrc.es/home/report/report_main.html) Further information's about PPO as fuel http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/plant-oil_en.htm Yes, please send me news about pure vegetable oil as fuel No, please don«t send me more news about pure vegetable oil as fuel Folkecenter for Renewable Energy Kammersgaardsvej 16, DK-7760 Hurup Thy, Denmark Web : www.folkecenter.dk , email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel : +45 97 95 66 00 , fax +45 97 95 65 65 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] FW: Final version of the biofuel directive published.
-Original Message- From: Niels Ans¿ - FC [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 May 2003 14:14 To: Int. Pure Plant Oil Group Subject: Final version of the biofuel directive published. News about Pure Plant Oil for Transportation - May 20th., 2003 The final version of the European biofuel directive published. The final version of the European biofuel directive, Directive 2003/30/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 8 May 2003 on the promotion of the use of biofuels or other renewable fuels for transport was published in the Official Journal of the European Union, L 123 Volume 46, 17 May 2003 Pure Plant Oil (PPO) is hereby formally recognized as a biofuel together with other biofuels such as biodiesel and bioethanol, by specific mentioning Pure Vegetable Oil (PVO) under Whereas:12) Pure vegetable oil from oil plants produced through pressing,extraction or comparable procedures,crude or refined but chemically unmodified,can also be used as biofuel in specific cases where its use is compatible with the type of engines involved and the corresponding emission requirements. and Article 2.2 At least the products listed below shall be considered biofuels: (a)Îbioethanol â:ethanol produced from biomass and/or the biodegradable fraction of waste,to be used as biofuel; (b)Îbiodiesel â:a methyl-ester produced from vegetable or animal oil,of diesel quality,to be used as biofuel; (c)Îbiogas â:a fuel gas produced from biomass and/or from the biodegradable fraction of waste,that can be purified to natural gas quality,to be used as biofuel,or woodgas; (d)Îbiomethanol â:methanol produced from biomass,to be used as biofuel; (e)Îbiodimethylether â:dimethylether produced from biomass, to be used as biofuel; (f)Îbio-ETBE (ethyl-tertio-butyl-ether)â:ETBE produced on the basis of bioethanol.The percentage by volume of bio-ETBE that is calculated as biofuel is 47 %; (g)Îbio-MTBE (methyl-tertio-butyl-ether)â:a fuel produced on the basis of biomethanol.The percentage by volume of bio-MTBE that is calculated as biofuel is 36 %; (h)Îsynthetic biofuels â:synthetic hydrocarbons or mixtures of synthetic hydrocarbons,which have been produced from biomass; (i)Îbiohydrogen â:hydrogen produced from biomass,and/or from the biodegradable fraction of waste,to be used as biofuel; (j)Îpure vegetable oil â:oil produced from oil plants through pressing,extraction or comparable procedures,crude or refined but chemically unmodified,when compatible with the type of engines involved and the corresponding emission requirements. The complete document can be downlaoded from http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/oj/2003/l_12320030517en.html (select your language, and download from page 42) The following are direct links to the English , German , French and Spanish versions. Relevant link: Article "Unmodified Vegetable Oil as an Automotive Fuel", by Peder Jensen, IPTS/JRC, Spain. Available in English at http://www.jrc.es/pages/iptsreport/vol74/english/TRA1E746.htm. Soon it will be available in French, Spanish and German (see http://www.jrc.es/home/report/report_main.html) Further information's about PPO as fuel http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/plant-oil_en.htm Yes, please send me news about pure vegetable oil as fuel No, please don«t send me more news about pure vegetable oil as fuel Folkecenter for Renewable Energy Kammersgaardsvej 16, DK-7760 Hurup Thy, Denmark Web : www.folkecenter.dk , email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel : +45 97 95 66 00 , fax +45 97 95 65 65 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Toothpaste as poison
keep the disargeements civilized and enlightened folks...egocentricity has no place around here...if you choose to persist with the negativity, don't post to the group--just argue privately and save us all the vitriolic exchanges. peace2u and whateverr ;-) kn >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/20/03 09:57AM >>> Well Paul, I certainly prefer Keith's link to an article on his web site (plus ten links to similar sites), to your long dissertation backed up by nothing your "status quo" opinions. Are you trying to insure that next year's grant money will be available by acting like a good little soldier or are you just a born "company man". > > > > I think this is the real comparison here, I'm sure > the listers who > > > know about it (quite a few) will agree: > > > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/text_price.html > > > The Darwin of nutrition > > > >O - K sure, back up your arguement with an article > on your own web site! > >nice! (damn it, now I am getting accusitory! see how > this rhetoric attack > >stuff works! it sucks you into arguements that you > didn;t want, wastes your > >time, drags you into vitrolic personal attacks against > people you'd rather > >just ignore or get along with!) __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A question about using SVO/WVO in the U.S.
Does anyone have the evidence to support this? In speaking with an engineer at the EPA (one I've seen quoted in several news articles describing crack downs on this type of operation), the EPA won't give approval for it until extensive testing has been completed. I'd feel more comfortable if I could carry around the supporting evidence with me, in case I run into trouble. thanks!! -detrick Hakan wrote: > Detrick, > > It has been discussed and as far as I understood it, > it is legal to produce and use up to a specified amount > during the year. I do not remember the amount, but it > was enough for extensive driving of a large SUV, or > driving two smaller family cars. Something around > 1,500 gallon a year. The conclusion is that it is legal, > but for commercial the taxes have to be paid. > > Hakan > > > At 01:11 PM 5/20/2003 +, you wrote: > >>I've searched the archive trying to find information on this, and >>haven't found any yet (although I must say, this list has a HUGE >>archive!). >> >>Does anyone know about any legal hitches with using SVO/WVO in the >>U.S.? I seem to be able to find companies selling kits to allow >>SVO/WVO to be used in a diesel engine. None of them, so far, have >>been able to give me any support or ideas on whether or not it's >>legal! They all either don't care, or tell me it's not their >>responsibility to research these things. >> >>thanks for any insight, >> >>detrick Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: [prep2003discuss2] Toothpaste as poison
Kris Book wrote: > chorline will soon go the way > that saccharin and DDT did, no accepting of responsibility > by its manufacturers. > Ummm. Saccharin is safe and has finally been delisted by the FDA. In Dec of 2000, Bill Clinton signed long overdue legislation that finally removed the warning label requirement that had been in effect in the US since 1977. This decision is backed up by 20 years of good science. In the words of the WHO's International Agency for Research on Cancer, "Saccharin... [is]... not classifiable as to carcinogenicity to humans, despite sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity to animals, because it is carcinogenic by a non-DNA-reactive mechanism that is not relevant to humans because of critical interspecies differences in urine composition." Unfounded scaremongering by groups like the CSPI aside, saccharin is a safe, useful non-caloric sweetner. John -- John E Hayes, M.S. Doctoral Student in Nutritional Sciences University of Connecticut [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Toothpaste as poison
Well Paul, I certainly prefer Keith's link to an article on his web site (plus ten links to similar sites), to your long dissertation backed up by nothing your "status quo" opinions. Are you trying to insure that next year's grant money will be available by acting like a good little soldier or are you just a born "company man". > > > > I think this is the real comparison here, I'm sure > the listers who > > > know about it (quite a few) will agree: > > > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/text_price.html > > > The Darwin of nutrition > > > >O - K sure, back up your arguement with an article > on your own web site! > >nice! (damn it, now I am getting accusitory! see how > this rhetoric attack > >stuff works! it sucks you into arguements that you > didn;t want, wastes your > >time, drags you into vitrolic personal attacks against > people you'd rather > >just ignore or get along with!) __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] solar colector ( was Re: price of methanol )
No pics or drawings of it, and I plan on changing the design a bit too. And haven't figured out if I'll run the oil through it or run a heat exchanger off of it to the oil. Ill post what I can when I get it finished. Brent Saskatchewan, Canada >From: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: [biofuel] solar colector ( was Re: price of methanol ) >Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:40:29 -0600 > >Do you have any pics. or drawings of it? > >Greg H. > >- Original Message - >From: "Brent S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 08:54 >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: price of methanol > > > > Wish I had somewhere to take a course. I have always been far ahead of > > everyone in my thinking and as such, end up being laughed at an >ridiculed > > about new things. It also means doing things the hard way most of the >time. > > > > Last year I built a solar colector out of ABS pipe. I have gotten 140 >deg. > > out of it with no trouble and know I can get it a few deg. warmer. I >would > > use that as a preheat, reducing the energy required to take it to the > > boiling point of methanol. You metioned heating both the diesel and > > glycerine. I assume you do this after settling. Do you stir it as well > > during the distilling? > > > > Thanx > > Brent > > > > > > > > _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] white 'salt' (??) was acid esterification Re: FFA
I pour the soup into a 2L > coke bottle and watch with a sense of delight. Oh man, delight at watching vegetable oil go 'round and 'round! I turned on a wash tank yesterday and actually got a smile on my face cause it looked like really good fuel. I then felt really stupid for getting a smile on my face over the fact that it was sparkly and "pretty". Then I felt like even more of a dork when I woke up this morning and realized that I was thinking about acid-base process in my dream. > > As per norm the material settles out very fast > indeed. Black glycerine at the bottom, methyl > ester in the middle (about the colour of Iron > brew but a touch cloudy) with a thin hint of a > black film on top. After a short time (a few > hours), the white precipitate forms just a you > say is like starch in water. I have left the > mixture for 2 days now and the layer is around > 10mm (2/5'') deep. The layer is soluble in the > oil at 80-100'C and again re-precipitates at room > temp. I think that it a salt from the Na+ ions. > I've not seen much stuff like this in a singlestage process. It seems to me that you might have some other chemicals in the oil, probably nothing to worry about since you're succeeding in making fuel out of it. Is it below the glycerol layer, or on top of it? mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Article on Buckling Up, Safety, Laws, Insurance and other Costs, Human Toll of Accidents
http://usatoday.com/usatonline/20030520/5171561s.htm This was a USAtoday cover story and I do apologize to the authors and publication for copying and pasting, but I don't wish to risk wasting my time and others' by pasting only a link which may or may not get folks to the story. As is often the case, there were interesting side-bars in the print edition which are not present in the online edition. This story covers many of the auto safety and insurance-cost themes I've been thinking about. There were many different issues here worthy of discussion, I think, such as the difficulty of showing that buckling up helps save lives when the state with the lowest fatality rate has just about the worst buckling up practices (there was a terrific chart in the Print edition). Also, the story covered the effects of civil libertarians' efforts on impeding enactment of laws which would bring more people to buckle up, and it covered the huge financial and non-financial costs of these needless and senseless injuries and deaths. I liked this quote, among others: >Why people don't wear belts > >Working against high belt use: > >* Apathy. When there's no Ford, Firestone or drunk driver to blame, there's >little public outrage about car crash deaths. Americans have grown used to >losing almost as many people every year in crashes as were lost during the >entire Vietnam War. Page 1A U.S. pushes for wider seat belt use Buckling up could save about 9,200 lives a year By Jayne O'Donnell USA TODAY BOSTON -- Kevin O'Connor, a spinal-cord doctor who teaches people how to use wheelchairs and control their bowels and bladder, has an unofficial specialty: car-crash victims, the ones who don't wear seat belts. Before he came to Boston's Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital last year, O'Connor worked in San Diego, where it was rare to see teens lying in traction after flying out of their cars and trucks. But now, he regularly treats people whose lives changed forever when crashes stopped their cars -- and they kept going. That's because only about half of Massachusetts motorists wear safety belts, and a greater percentage die unbelted than in any state but Rhode Island. In both states, three-fourths of those who die in car crashes are unbelted, a USA TODAY analysis shows. Cars have had seat belts for more than 30 years, and states started requiring their use in 1984. But the risk of debilitating injury or death -- or a ticket -- has persuaded only 75% of Americans to buckle up. That gives the USA a lower rate than most of the developed world. Federal officials say if everyone wore belts, it would prevent up to a third -- about 9,200 -- of the 31,000 deaths in car and truck crashes each year. Congestion, which slows traffic, helps Massachusetts maintain the country's lowest overall highway death toll. But the consequences of having the lowest seat-belt usage rate in the USA and one of the highest crash rates are seen in rehab hospitals across the state. ''You never think something like this could happen to you,'' says Michael Prestipino of Lowell, Mass., a quadriplegic since his unbelted body was ejected from his pickup on an icy road last year. Federal and state officials share the $26 billion annual cost of Medicaid to care for unbelted drivers and cover their lost productivity. Still, states vary on the degree of importance they place on getting people to buckle up. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is spearheading a massive two-week drive through Memorial Day to fire up the states to promote safety-belt use and encourage police officers to ticket the unbelted. The focus is on Memorial Day because it kicks off summer, the deadliest season on the road. NHTSA wants to achieve 78% usage this year. The usage rate hasn't budged more than a few percentage points in the last decade, but it isn't for lack of trying. Federal officials encourage, cajole and threaten states to get them to pass laws that let police ticket unbelted motorists. Now, NHTSA wants Congress to let it force states to pass tougher belt laws or be required to spend highway construction money on highway safety. NHTSA says data overwhelmingly show that the only way to make major strides in belt usage is education, coupled with strong police enforcement of so-called primary belt laws. These laws allow police to pull people over simply because they are not wearing seat belts. Federal data show that states passing these laws can expect an 8-percentage-point increase in usage. Still, although almost every state allows police to stop cars if young children aren't in child seats, only 19 states have primary belt-use laws. Automakers and insurers also lobby for primary laws because seat-belt usage can save them money. Automakers are sued less because belts reduce injuries that might otherwise be attribute
[biofuel] Corning Stirrer/hot plate
I am doing a shop cleanup (got the big layoff) and am clearing out my stuff. I have a Corning Stirrer/hot plate model PC-420, NEW!!!, busted (gone, nothing left) ceramic top. If interested E-mail me off list. David Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A question about using SVO/WVO in the U.S.
Detrick, It has been discussed and as far as I understood it, it is legal to produce and use up to a specified amount during the year. I do not remember the amount, but it was enough for extensive driving of a large SUV, or driving two smaller family cars. Something around 1,500 gallon a year. The conclusion is that it is legal, but for commercial the taxes have to be paid. Hakan At 01:11 PM 5/20/2003 +, you wrote: >I've searched the archive trying to find information on this, and >haven't found any yet (although I must say, this list has a HUGE >archive!). > >Does anyone know about any legal hitches with using SVO/WVO in the >U.S.? I seem to be able to find companies selling kits to allow >SVO/WVO to be used in a diesel engine. None of them, so far, have >been able to give me any support or ideas on whether or not it's >legal! They all either don't care, or tell me it's not their >responsibility to research these things. > >thanks for any insight, > >detrick Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biodiesel Coop
Hey Folks, Now that I have put some time into the development of a biodiesel processor for my school, I am interested in moving the benefits of biodiesel homebrewing out into local communities on Eleuthera. I am particularly interested in the biodiesel cooperative idea, or just simply community based biodiesel production (Mark? Keith?). Any thoughts that anyone has on challenges/successes woith bringing the technology out into communities or the structure of a cooperative to support it would be most appreciated. Thanks, Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Kurds go it alone with international oil deals
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=407177 Kurds go it alone with international oil deals Local authorities ignore US administration and seek to lure major companies with generous contracts Andrew Buncombe in Washington 18 May 2003 Kurdish authorities in northern Iraq are offering hugely lucrative oil deals to European and American companies without consulting either the US administration in Baghdad or any other Iraqi groups. The move threatens to raise new problems over the future ownership of Iraq's vast oil reserves. The Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), which controls the Sulaymaniyah region as part of the regional government of Kurdish Iraq, has in recent weeks started seeking investment from international companies interested in oil exploration and production. While most companies appear wary of getting involved in deals with the regional authorities in the absence of a settled - and internationally approved - government in Baghdad, the proposed deals represent a challenge to the US-led occupying force. Some have even suggested the proposals may be an effort by the PUK to present any new government in Baghdad with a fait accompli. Samples of the proposed "production-sharing agreements" seen by The Independent on Sunday reveal that the PUK authorities are offering investors an attractive deal. The initial share of profits would be split 60:40 in favour of the oil company, dropping to around 50:50 once a specified level of production is reached. "They are extremely favourable terms," said Gordon Barrows, of the Barrows Company, a US-based publisher of international oil laws and contracts and the company that obtained the contract. The future of Iraq's oil reserves, which some predictions place at up to 112 billion barrels with more to come, is one of the most contentious issues facing the US and Britain as they seek to rebuild Iraq in the aftermath of the ousting of Saddam Hussein. While both Washington and London denied that oil was a factor in their decision to go to war, many of their critics, including most Iraqis, believe that a wish to secure the world's second largest supplies played a large part in shaping the decision to opt for military action. Washington is keen to use Iraq's oil wealth to at least partly pay for the country's rebuilding. There are few major companies that would not wish to secure deals to develop Iraq's oil reserves, and Mr Barrows said he believed the PUK had proposed the deals to most major firms. Britain's two largest companies, BP and Royal Dutch Shell, have both expressed an interest in doing deals when a government has been established in Baghdad. "We have always said we would be interested in the prospect of investing in Iraq, but that would be when there is a stable, long-term administration there," said David Nicholas, a spokesman for BP. Both he and a spokesman for Shell denied that they had been in talks with the PUK. For its part, the PUK admits that it has been offering the deals. It started sounding out interest last July for production in the Taqtaq area north of Kirkuk, but found no takers. Since the US-led occupation of Iraq the PUK has been offering the deals once again, hoping to increase production in the area, which some sources suggest is only producing 5,000 barrels a day. Mohammed Ismail, director of the PUK's office in Washington, said: "It is true [that we are offering contracts]. I don't know the names of the companies involved." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Kurds go it alone with international oil deals
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=407177 Kurds go it alone with international oil deals Local authorities ignore US administration and seek to lure major companies with generous contracts Andrew Buncombe in Washington 18 May 2003 Kurdish authorities in northern Iraq are offering hugely lucrative oil deals to European and American companies without consulting either the US administration in Baghdad or any other Iraqi groups. The move threatens to raise new problems over the future ownership of Iraq's vast oil reserves. The Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), which controls the Sulaymaniyah region as part of the regional government of Kurdish Iraq, has in recent weeks started seeking investment from international companies interested in oil exploration and production. While most companies appear wary of getting involved in deals with the regional authorities in the absence of a settled - and internationally approved - government in Baghdad, the proposed deals represent a challenge to the US-led occupying force. Some have even suggested the proposals may be an effort by the PUK to present any new government in Baghdad with a fait accompli. Samples of the proposed "production-sharing agreements" seen by The Independent on Sunday reveal that the PUK authorities are offering investors an attractive deal. The initial share of profits would be split 60:40 in favour of the oil company, dropping to around 50:50 once a specified level of production is reached. "They are extremely favourable terms," said Gordon Barrows, of the Barrows Company, a US-based publisher of international oil laws and contracts and the company that obtained the contract. The future of Iraq's oil reserves, which some predictions place at up to 112 billion barrels with more to come, is one of the most contentious issues facing the US and Britain as they seek to rebuild Iraq in the aftermath of the ousting of Saddam Hussein. While both Washington and London denied that oil was a factor in their decision to go to war, many of their critics, including most Iraqis, believe that a wish to secure the world's second largest supplies played a large part in shaping the decision to opt for military action. Washington is keen to use Iraq's oil wealth to at least partly pay for the country's rebuilding. There are few major companies that would not wish to secure deals to develop Iraq's oil reserves, and Mr Barrows said he believed the PUK had proposed the deals to most major firms. Britain's two largest companies, BP and Royal Dutch Shell, have both expressed an interest in doing deals when a government has been established in Baghdad. "We have always said we would be interested in the prospect of investing in Iraq, but that would be when there is a stable, long-term administration there," said David Nicholas, a spokesman for BP. Both he and a spokesman for Shell denied that they had been in talks with the PUK. For its part, the PUK admits that it has been offering the deals. It started sounding out interest last July for production in the Taqtaq area north of Kirkuk, but found no takers. Since the US-led occupation of Iraq the PUK has been offering the deals once again, hoping to increase production in the area, which some sources suggest is only producing 5,000 barrels a day. Mohammed Ismail, director of the PUK's office in Washington, said: "It is true [that we are offering contracts]. I don't know the names of the companies involved." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] - Weight Question
I'd probably think something like 0.80 to 0.90kg per L depending upon in the inpit crude oil / fat. Mark __ It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others. Call 08709 32 to give or donate online now at http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] - Weight Question
>Do anyone know how many Kg there are in a liter of BioD? > >Craig Hi Craig You'll find info on that and much else here - not a very well-named page, but it started that way and then grew: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html Vegetable oil yields, characteristics Vegetable oil yields: -- ascending order -- alphabetical order Other oil crops Oils and esters characteristics Iodine Values -- High Iodine Values -- Talking about the weather Quality standard for rapeseed oil fuel Cetane Numbers National standards for biodiesel Fuel properties of fats and oils Fuel properties of esters Anyway: Density kgL-1 @ 15.5 deg C: Diesel 0.84 Canola Oil 0.92 Biodiesel 0.88 There are figures for density @ 15¡C g/cm in the table of the various national standards for biodiesel - lowest 0.85, highest 0.90: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#biodstds Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] A question about using SVO/WVO in the U.S.
I've searched the archive trying to find information on this, and haven't found any yet (although I must say, this list has a HUGE archive!). Does anyone know about any legal hitches with using SVO/WVO in the U.S.? I seem to be able to find companies selling kits to allow SVO/WVO to be used in a diesel engine. None of them, so far, have been able to give me any support or ideas on whether or not it's legal! They all either don't care, or tell me it's not their responsibility to research these things. thanks for any insight, detrick Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] biodiesel production using microbes
hi has anyone cross come across a paper regarding biodiesel production using microbes,it would be great great for my research Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] acid esterification Re: FFA
Mark A., The micro-step by micro-step acid/base walk thru is found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biodiesel/message/2504 The white precipitate that you and (the other) Mark have mentioned in the pre-wash stages has never been noticed here at the "stopping points." I believe that Mark took notice as a result of a procedural error and you took notice only after a acid stage had set for a prolonged period? The only place that we've ever achieved a white precipitate is in the wash cycle. This has (or had) been tentatively calculated to be a metal stearate (potassium or sodium) due to it's appearance after the introduction of the caustic(s) and the removal of alcohol (solvent) in the first wash cycle, plus its non-solubility at low water temps. As expressed to Mark in an off-list post, it will be interesting to see is if the precipitate (or suspended solid) appear in the ester if the small fraction of residual alcohol in the ester is evaporated prior to the first wash cycle. Your're having taken notice of a white precipitate prior to the addition of caustic(s) would give pause to our surmise as to what the precipiate actually is. Perhaps the reason why it's never been noticed before is the 130*F temp that we push, perhaps keeping it solvent in the first stage. Up to this point, we've simply filtered out the precipitate and set it aside for later analysis. Perhaps now would be a good time to ask those with regular access to a lab to throw their two cents worth in. Thanks for the post below. A good bit of material for everyone to chew on for a while. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "girl_mark_fire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 1:17 AM Subject: [biofuel] acid esterification Re: FFA > OK, different Mark chiming in, my turn: > > I've been wondering about this white precipitate too. I haven't seen too much > 'first stage glycerine' in general because I dont' usually make test batches (but > Todd can you PLEASE re-post your test batch method for acid-base like you > just did on another list. I periodically like to re-post his test batch method on > this list, hope some of you guys have seen it). > Since I don' tusually do test batches, I usually don't see what is going on in the > bottom of my reactor. > > But a month ago I took a sample of the first-stage product, so as to 'trick' some > students whom I was teaching titration to- I had them titrate the oil this stuff > came from, and the first stage product,. without telling them what it was, to > illustrate the way that FFA drops with acid-base. After they remarked that it > was nice oil I got to tell them that it wasn't just oil, which led to a discussion of > how this got achieved. > > ANyway the stuff has been sitting in a jar for over a month and it's developed > a good amount of white precipitate. It looked solid to me at first. But it took a > while for that precipitate to develop. > > Tonight I was just startring to fool around with my biodiesel gear after being > away for a week... and ran across the jar of acid-stage sample, and > remembered Mark's question. > > Mark S, are you seeing this stuff dceveloping right away? > > Anyway I moved the jar around a little and this stuff didn't look solid. It looks > something like water with a thick load of a solid, like water with a bunch of > powdered sugar or starch dissolved in it. It also dropped in acid number (ie > lower value on a titration) from 1.5 to 1 on a titration in the past month, > continuing to react very slowly??? > > > I just came from the Iowa State University course on commercial biodiesel > production, and one of the reasons I went to the program was to learn more > aobut industrial acid-base. We ended up esterifying trap grease in the lab- > eighty percent free fatty acids- which was quite impressive. the industrial > process esterified it to .78 percent ffa, and they certainly made a big deal out > of the fact that their process makes themost dramatic difference in bad quality > oil, though they just do two stages of esterification if need be, before going on > to transesterification base stage.. > > It was also a great illlustration of what ALeks was talking about when he says > that reaction is much more equilibrium-sensitive (than base trans-e). We > used differing amounts of sulfuric and differing amounts of methanol which > both depended on the ffa content (figured out using a slightly more > complicated titration than homebrewers do). The amount of methanol was > immense, a practice completely out of reach of homebrewers without > methanol recovery to attempt (though you'd literally have to go digging in a > sewer to find eighty percent ffa grease). > > In the case of the eightly percent ffa stuff, (someone wrote me wanting to know > what the heck they were eating in that place before the grease went down the > drain!), the methanol volume used was more than the amount of grease we > actually started with. It was unimportant t
Re: [biofuel] - Weight Question
Do anyone know how many Kg there are in a liter of BioD? Craig Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] FFA
Hi Yes I have followed the instructions by Aleks on the acid-base technique. Before the base stage, I form a solid precipitate in the oil. Mark __ It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others. Call 08709 32 to give or donate online now at http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] acid esterification Re: FFA
Dear Mark Thanks for the response. I have found a grim supply of free oil from a University campus kitchen. It takes 6.8cc of 0.025M NaOH solution to turn to pH 8.5 via Phenolthalein titration. This I have no problem with. So, I mix 200cc anhydrous methanol and 10.3g of analytical grade NaOH until disolved. Then I add the 1000cc of very grim WVO and mix like mad in a cheap blender for 45 minutes by which time the temp of the mix has reached around 50'C. I pour the soup into a 2L coke bottle and watch with a sense of delight. As per norm the material settles out very fast indeed. Black glycerine at the bottom, methyl ester in the middle (about the colour of Iron brew but a touch cloudy) with a thin hint of a black film on top. After a short time (a few hours), the white precipitate forms just a you say is like starch in water. I have left the mixture for 2 days now and the layer is around 10mm (2/5'') deep. The layer is soluble in the oil at 80-100'C and again re-precipitates at room temp. I think that it a salt from the Na+ ions. So anyhow, the next stage was Aleks acid-base technique. So I take 1000cc of the same grim WVO and mix with 80cc of anhydrous methanol for 5 minutes and then add 1cc of 97% H2SO4 and mix. After this period, a solid precipitate forms - like regular sugar grains in oil, which do not settle out. What are these? Regards from England Mark __ It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others. Call 08709 32 to give or donate online now at http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] more on what confused me about acidbase was another tome
Hi Mark Thanks for this and previous, sensible suggestions, useful input, and if this list allowed html (which it doesn't and shouldn't), this unsmiley for the wanton damage done by "village idiots" who care only about their own warped egos would be 144pt Tempo Sans Ultra-Bold, and multi-hued, with shadow, and perhaps a sound-track: :-( No point in discussing all that here however, or rather less than no point - let's try to keep this list at least free of it. Anyway, I've taken what you've said aboard and I'll figure out what to do about it. Might take awhile though, please be patient. Thanks again Regards Keith >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "girl_mark_fire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Please take a look at it if you're interested in trying out >this method, maby > > > >people are put off by thinking they'll need a specialized reactor to try >acid- > > > >base (I certainly thought so for a long time). > > > > > > I don't know why people think that - can you tell me why? If there's > > > something that misleads I'll fix it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Toothpaste as poison
Dr Paul van den Bergen wrote: You're having an argument with Todd, fine, go ahead, but the message you've responded to isn't Todd's message, it's my response to Todd's message, as I'm sure you know. So the following bit wasn't written by Todd, but by me - why don't you acknowledge that? Or would you have us believe that Dr Paul van den Bergen of the Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures is incapable of figuring who wrote what in an email response? > > I think this is the real comparison here, I'm sure the listers who > > know about it (quite a few) will agree: > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/text_price.html > > The Darwin of nutrition > >O - K sure, back up your arguement with an article on your own web site! >nice! (damn it, now I am getting accusitory! see how this rhetoric attack >stuff works! it sucks you into arguements that you didn;t want, wastes your >time, drags you into vitrolic personal attacks against people you'd rather >just ignore or get along with!) I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Todd and generally, which was perfectly clear, and I wasn't arguing with you either, nor "backing up my arguments" - not being interested in being sucked into your arguments, nor in your rather underhand tactics. Which get you your way, for what it's worth (nothing) - you've duly succeeded in sucking me into an argument I didn't want, and into responding to a vitriolic attack from someone I'd rather just ignore. > > >Tell that to those who are the casualties of AR. > > > > Indeed... but we all are, only a matter of degree, and the whole biosphere > > too. > >Right casualty. badly done by. do you have clean drinking water? nice car? >education? peaceful society and police? you can't throw the baby out with the >bath water you know. every thing comes at a price. are you unwilling to pay >that price? what are you going to do about it then? You're still talking to me, while apparently pretending not to. In fact, from what I know of Todd, this foolish comment fits him about as poorly as it fits me, and it doesn't fit me at all. I think, among the three of us, you're far the most likely to be the one who lives the cushy comfortable life you're sneering at. I don't make much of it, people seldom do who actually do things rather than just talk too much with too little content, but neither Todd nor I needs this kind of snot. So yes, I'm willing to pay the price, and always have been, I've laid everything on the line for that and no doubt I'll do it again. Yes, I'm doing something about it, lots, so is Todd, so are very many of us here. And you? Police, you say? How many of your dear friends have been murdered by police, eh??? How many long years did you live with the day-to-day risk that it could happen to you any time? Hmphh. To address your question, if you'd looked at the page I cited, "The Darwin of nutrition", with anything more than an eye out for some mud to sling, you'd have found a vast amount of incontrovertible evidence that, as I said, we are indeed all victims, and, indeed, so is the biosphere. Or are you going to claim that it and us are just as pristine as we all were 200 years ago? Please DON'T now accuse me of nostalgia and wanting to undo "progress" and returning us all to some halcyon past that never existed, or at least not before going to our website and finding out what we do, since you apparently don't know. Unlike you, I didn't say that and cite that page just to score a point, but because it's true. Anyway, I find you rather less than forthright, Dr Paul van den Bergen, in quite a few ways. You're grinding away at several little private axes behind your assumed air of innocence. I don't think you're fooling anybody except maybe yourself. Keith Addison Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Toothpaste as poison
My ability to discuss, or argue, knowledgeably about chemistry is about zero. I was, however, very glad that the original piece, about the truckload of aluminium dioxide, got posted. Because now, when I buy toothpaste, or for example, deodorant, there's now a question, "Is this really OK for me". And that's healthy. I feel that contrary to accusations about other people's 'rhetoric', your own style displays a certainty, an absolutism, resonant of a government-paid scientist entrenched in the status quo. Andrew Preston On Tue, 20 May 2003 11:11:59 +1000, "paul van den bergen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Tue, 20 May 2003 12:08 am, Keith Addison wrote: > > Hi Todd > > > > >Another proponent of "acceptable risk" I see. > > hang on. That's stretching it a bit, don't you think? > > I am a proponent of the "social contract", the idea that a society is not > a > bunch of individuals, nor a state devoid of individualism, but a delicate > balance between the rights ( a poor choice of word, being as loaded with > multiple meanings as it is) of individuals and the rights of the state. > > so to accuse me of being an avocate of "Acceptable Risk" is a stretch at > best, > and an insult at worst. Or was it meant to be humour? > > lets cut through the rhetoric for a second shall we. > > firstly, the implication from the statement seems to be that AR is a > bd > bad thing. secondly that I, as a proponent of AR, am a misguided and > simple > minded fool, to be the subject of amused derision or outright contempt. > > so lets look at why someone might think that AR is a bad thing. > > AR can, as I am sure you all agree, be used for good or evil. we ALL use > it. > we all make judgements using it every day, and most of those are > completely > irrational judgements based on a willingness to trade risk for > expediency. > Every time we ride our bikes or hop in a car we take a calculated risk > that > we will not get killed today. So, are you being a risk-taking fool for > riding > a bike rather than driving in a care, since the risk of suffering death > or > serious injury from riding is much higher than a car (last time I > looked). > So why do people ride bikes? perhaps it's for reasons other than risk? > Gosh! > who'd have thought. > > Acceptable risk as a governence technique is, surely, poorly practiced > because > it equates risk with financial risk and rarely takes into account > environmental or social impacts of actions. so, perhaps rather than > attacking a tool, one should attack the improper use of that tool? Or is > that > too hard? too challenging? The biggest problem today with trying to get > progress on environmental and social reform is the assumption that people > are > stupid. (I mean, tehy are, as a mob, very stupid). the answer to this > from > politicians and media saave corporations is to obstreficate and/or rely > on > the simple message to express a misleading reasonable sounding opinion to > what is in reality a complex and multifacited problem. People understand > complexity! they face it every day! they don't want to hear it, but that > is > besides the point! the simple message, such as "AR = bad", not only > mis-represents the issue, but does irreperable damage to the process of > rectifying a given situation, since properly applied AR seems to me to be > the > only useable tool we have for addressing sensiblely a lot of complex > social > and environmental problems. In addition, it perpetuates the misuse of > the > media to allow people to remain simple and comfortable and not to think! > > > >For those not in the loop, "acceptable risk" (AR) is not a matter of "if" > > >anyone (or anything) gets ill, dies or is otherwise compromised, it's > > > simply a matter of "who" and "when." > > > > > >Which brings to question exactly why toxic pastimes that are deemed oh so > > >"acceptable" relative to "risk" predominantly located in poorer districts > > >and neighborhoods. > > see, now your accusing me of wanting to poison the poor. > > > > > > >AR is also the primary reason that cumulative risk has become such an > > >expanding problem. > > no, not true. > Poor and incomplete application by govt and corporations with a vested > interest in a particular outcome is what has lead to the problem. > > see, now you've pushed me into a position where I am required to defend > AR in > order to defend myself! Shame on you. > > Society legislates risk down to "acceptable" levels > > >(which are quite frequently more politically based than health rated) on > > > an instance by instance basis, which lends to the false security of > > > "relative" safety, all the while the reality of cumulative exposures are > > > not taken into account more often than not (whether by professional, > > > political or private), as we've already been following "safe" practices > > > in the singular. > > > > > >But we should all be pleased and "accept" whatever risk
Re: [biofuel] FFA
Hello Mark >Hello Keith > >The WVO smell makes you gag. Just think I lived >there for 2 years being none the wiser. I guess >well what you dont know cant hurt - that much >anyhow! Ignorance is bliss? Ignorance is dangerous! >The solid precipitate forms quite rapidly. It >maybe glycerol, it can't be many other compounds >in all honesty. Girl Mark has said some interesting things about this. >Regards > >Mark You don't answer questions Mark. You said you'd "produced clean and clear bio-diesel", I asked if you'd used the acid-base process - did you? If so, what exactly did you do? Did you follow the instructions? I also said this: >>However, it's widely recommended that people gain experience with >>single-stage methods first before trying the two-stage methods, and >>IMO that's sound advice. Previously I referred you to this: >I think you'd be a lot better off starting here: >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html >Make your own biodiesel: Journey to Forever I don't know if you take much notice of what various people have been telling you here. Your information is very vague, it's hard to know quite what you're doing. Keith >>Hello Mark >> >> >Dear Keith >> > >> >I have now produced clean and clear bio-diesel >> >from some of the most grim looking crude WVO. >> >>Well done! Using the acid-base process? (You don't eat at that >>place, do you?) >> >> >However a question - first acid stage (1.0cc 97% >> >H2SO4) per litre of WVO produces a solid >> >precipitate. What is it? Esterified FFA as a >> >solid? >> > >> >Regards >> > >> >Mark >> >>No, precipitated glycerine can be though, and the first stage does >>produce some: >> >>"The first-stage process is not transesterification, but pure and >>simple ESTERIFICATION. Esterification is followed by >>transesterification, but under acid conditions it's much slower than >>under caustic conditions and it won't do a complete oil-to-methyl >>ester conversion as the reaction is much more equilibrium-sensitive. >>Without methanol recovery, the alcohol overdose required would make >>the price of your fuel jump, and even with recovery it would still be >>much more expensive. Hence the second base-stage." >>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html >>Foolproof biodiesel process: Journey to Forever >> >>However, it's widely recommended that people gain experience with >>single-stage methods first before trying the two-stage methods, and >>IMO that's sound advice. >> >>Best >> >>Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] more on what confused me about acidbase was another tome
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "girl_mark_fire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > >Please take a look at it if you're interested in trying out this method, > > >maby > > >people are put off by thinking they'll need a specialized reactor to try acid- > > >base (I certainly thought so for a long time). > > > > I don't know why people think that - can you tell me why? If there's > > something that misleads I'll fix it. > Oops, I just thought of all the other stuff. I can't say it's got something to do with 'misleads'- it was more a matter of unfamiliar process- see end of this post. 1. temp/thermostat 2. draining off glycerine in base stage while reactor is running seemed complicated, ESPECIALLY because of the mention of pump agitation being optimal for this. I used to have only stirred reactors, not pump ones, and I now have only pump ones. It used to seem complicated to drain off glycerine while the thing was pumping, I think a year ago I assumed that this was some feature of finding a slow pump that circulatred slowly enough that the glyc could settle while it was moving around. That's quite wrong, isn't it? He says 'start draining off glycerine' and I guess if you're starting out with the process it's not quite clear that it can mean 'stop and settle for a moment and drain' . just some stupid confusion on my part, I think it stopped me though 3. not knowing if you'd get bad results if you did it in a faster agitating reactor, and me not having a slow pump to try it out with. you really don't need a slow pump , but it seemed that way from a cursory reading of the instructions I actually eventually stuck a slow pump I already own onto a processor right alongside the fast pump that was already mounted on it, and did agitation experiments with both acid base and singlestage and concluded that it made no differnence, but I think it might be useful to make it clear in the directions that you can do this using your 'regular' processor ... I guess #3 (not knowing why something is important that's printed in the directions). addresses things I think other people have trouble with in this process- not knowing WHY something is in the recipe, and not knowing therefore if you can tweak it. I know, I know, follow the directions, don't change it and all that (I'm one of the titrators by the way, and I don' t do the phosphoric acid addition at the end cause of the soap/ffa splitting issue) but sometimes you tweak things because you have to- such as things going wrong with your equipment, etc, and it is helpful that in singlestage its easy to read some info about what effect the different parameters have on the results.. My big point in talking to people about this subject lately is that with ye Olde Single-Stage process, there's quite a bit of info (and some misinfo!) out there, it's been easily available for years now, all about how singlestage works or doesn't and why we have certain parameters in the 'recipe'; we follow. But with acid-base? there's just less publically published feedback in the collective homebrewer knowledge base on what works or doesn't and how and why, because it's a newer process, and there's been all this slander around it that clouds the issue, and simply because less people do it so there's less of us posting results and suggestions and furthering the collective knowledge base. The parameters of the process just aren't as clear as they are for singlestage, mostly because it's one person's contribution and writing of the directins instead of a whole online community's writing of the directions for singlestage I'm quite fascinated (make that obsessed) by the acidbase process right now. It started when I got an offlist email at the Yahoo Biodiesel list from someone asking if I tweak anything or if I stick with the recipe, and the guy said "I'd ask onlist but it'd only serve to keep the resident village idiot amused" (our active troll at the time was having quite a bit of fun slandering acidbase, considering he hasn't done it) And I realized that it';s an unfortunate state of affairs that there's not more of a conversation going on about what works for people in this process, and that the slander stuff was really having it's way at least on that list- that the educational process was just dead stopped, to where someone felt they couldn't even ask in public for fear of starting up the trolling So, thinking about why people sometimes 'don't get' this process, or are intimidated by it: some random suggestions on presenting the material: maybe a bit more info sometime on why things are in there a certain way? An easy one for starters might be explaining the optional glycerol retraction in the base stage- that sounds like aleks' equilibrium concerns (read his first twostage base-base process.) So people who are worried about conversion for example might want to consider if they've tried the retrac
PLEASE READ THIS - was Re: [biofuel] Natural pH-Indicators
Did you not see this previous message, Dr Paul van den Bergen? Subject headings - was Re: Natural pH-Indicators http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=24955&list=BIOFUEL To save you the trouble, it said this: >Please change the subject line when you change the subject - basic >Netiquette, saves confusion and annoyance, and makes archives >searching much easier. > >Thankyou. > >Keith Addison >List moderator Tom acknowledged this and changed the heading to this: "Re:Environmental process for Motor oil clean up" But you must use the previous, wrong, heading: "Re: [biofuel] Natural pH-Indicators". Why do you keep going back to old messages, ignoring subsequent posts? Why do you ignore moderator's rulings? Keith Addison List moderator >On Mon, 19 May 2003 02:01 pm, Tom Gehlen wrote: > > I"m being faced with the clean up of rather heavy clay soaked with old > > motor oil. What are the most effective processes currently being used for > > reclaiming such an environmental problem. Is there a process that produces > > a positive environmental effect?? > > > > Tom G. > >what sort of volume of material are we talking about? > >-- >Dr Paul van den Bergen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] another tome on fuel-making Re: todd
> > > >Please take a look at it if you're interested in trying out this method, maby > >people are put off by thinking they'll need a specialized reactor to try > >acid- > >base (I certainly thought so for a long time). > > I don't know why people think that - can you tell me why? If there's > something that misleads I'll fix it. I think that not knowing why the temperature was critical (I'd never heated during a reaction for normal singlestage), and the thermostat bit was what confused me, the people I knew who had done acid-base at that point all used one thermostat-equipped processor, and I thought it was critical (and it was in their case, it was an uninsulated plastic conical that wouldv'e lost temp fast). Then Kenneth Kron made it using a really hoopte-dy (that's a word, I swear, means shoddy) barrel and scary handheld drill arrangement, plugging his heater element in and out to maintain temperature (I've found since then that just having good insulation on your barrel eliminates all the plugging and unplugging and worrying about thermostats). He's the local by the way who was going around having no problems since he had only ever done it acid-base, and then suddenly one day he tried singlestage, emulsified the wash for the first time, and was all over group email with a few of us freaking out about what the hell the mayonnaise was all about when washing, not understanding what went wrong. You know, the all-- reliable singlestage. anyway, I think temp was what what scared me off equipment-wise, worrying about spending a bunch of time mucking around with a thermometer... of course it's perfectly easy to wire a thermostat, but they're $10, and that was 1/ 5 of my processor costs at that point, and I was being cheap. Eventually I did some 10-liter test batches in a small drum on a hot plate (awful photos of that at veggieavenger, it really shook around and scared everybody), and it was OK except I had total trouble with the temp control cause of the 'no insulation' thing... I also now think lids are super important on something you're heating with methanol evaporating up your nose (I wasn't hanging out long enough for it to do so, and that's where the temp control checking would get away from me), and I didn't use a lid at that point so between the open lid and small volume and no insulation, temp control was difficult . mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Toothpaste as poison
On Tue, 20 May 2003 12:08 am, Keith Addison wrote: > Hi Todd > > >Another proponent of "acceptable risk" I see. hang on. That's stretching it a bit, don't you think? I am a proponent of the "social contract", the idea that a society is not a bunch of individuals, nor a state devoid of individualism, but a delicate balance between the rights ( a poor choice of word, being as loaded with multiple meanings as it is) of individuals and the rights of the state. so to accuse me of being an avocate of "Acceptable Risk" is a stretch at best, and an insult at worst. Or was it meant to be humour? lets cut through the rhetoric for a second shall we. firstly, the implication from the statement seems to be that AR is a bd bad thing. secondly that I, as a proponent of AR, am a misguided and simple minded fool, to be the subject of amused derision or outright contempt. so lets look at why someone might think that AR is a bad thing. AR can, as I am sure you all agree, be used for good or evil. we ALL use it. we all make judgements using it every day, and most of those are completely irrational judgements based on a willingness to trade risk for expediency. Every time we ride our bikes or hop in a car we take a calculated risk that we will not get killed today. So, are you being a risk-taking fool for riding a bike rather than driving in a care, since the risk of suffering death or serious injury from riding is much higher than a car (last time I looked). So why do people ride bikes? perhaps it's for reasons other than risk? Gosh! who'd have thought. Acceptable risk as a governence technique is, surely, poorly practiced because it equates risk with financial risk and rarely takes into account environmental or social impacts of actions. so, perhaps rather than attacking a tool, one should attack the improper use of that tool? Or is that too hard? too challenging? The biggest problem today with trying to get progress on environmental and social reform is the assumption that people are stupid. (I mean, tehy are, as a mob, very stupid). the answer to this from politicians and media saave corporations is to obstreficate and/or rely on the simple message to express a misleading reasonable sounding opinion to what is in reality a complex and multifacited problem. People understand complexity! they face it every day! they don't want to hear it, but that is besides the point! the simple message, such as "AR = bad", not only mis-represents the issue, but does irreperable damage to the process of rectifying a given situation, since properly applied AR seems to me to be the only useable tool we have for addressing sensiblely a lot of complex social and environmental problems. In addition, it perpetuates the misuse of the media to allow people to remain simple and comfortable and not to think! > >For those not in the loop, "acceptable risk" (AR) is not a matter of "if" > >anyone (or anything) gets ill, dies or is otherwise compromised, it's > > simply a matter of "who" and "when." > > > >Which brings to question exactly why toxic pastimes that are deemed oh so > >"acceptable" relative to "risk" predominantly located in poorer districts > >and neighborhoods. see, now your accusing me of wanting to poison the poor. > > > >AR is also the primary reason that cumulative risk has become such an > >expanding problem. no, not true. Poor and incomplete application by govt and corporations with a vested interest in a particular outcome is what has lead to the problem. see, now you've pushed me into a position where I am required to defend AR in order to defend myself! Shame on you. Society legislates risk down to "acceptable" levels > >(which are quite frequently more politically based than health rated) on > > an instance by instance basis, which lends to the false security of > > "relative" safety, all the while the reality of cumulative exposures are > > not taken into account more often than not (whether by professional, > > political or private), as we've already been following "safe" practices > > in the singular. > > > >But we should all be pleased and "accept" whatever risk is ascribed, > > because our overall lifespans are greater than our grandparent's? > > I think this is the real comparison here, I'm sure the listers who > know about it (quite a few) will agree: > > http://journeytoforever.org/text_price.html > The Darwin of nutrition O - K sure, back up your arguement with an article on your own web site! nice! (damn it, now I am getting accusitory! see how this rhetoric attack stuff works! it sucks you into arguements that you didn;t want, wastes your time, drags you into vitrolic personal attacks against people you'd rather just ignore or get along with!) > > >Tell that to those who are the casualties of AR. > > Indeed... but we all are, only a matter of degree, and the whole biosphere > too. Right casualty. badly done by. do you have clean drinking water
[biofuel] Gardner Watts breakthrough discovery
I just came across this story in today's London Daily Telegrah. Anyone car= e to comment? Take water and potash, add electricity and get - a mystery By Robert Matthews, Science Correspondent (Filed: 18/05/2003) British researchers believe that they have made a groundbreaking scientific= discovery after apparently managing to "create" energy from hydrogen atoms. In results independently verified at Bristol University, a team from Gardne= r Watts - an environmental technology company based in Dedham, Essex - show a "thermal energy cell" which appears to produce hundreds of times more energy than that put into it. If the findings are correct and can be reproduced on a commercial scale, the thermal energy cell could become a feature of every home, heating water for a fraction of the cost and cutti= ng fuel bills by at least 90 per cent. The makers of the cell, which passes an electric current through a liquid between two electrodes, admit that they cannot explain precisely how the invention works. They insist, however, that their cell is not just a repeat= of the notorious "cold fusion" debacle of the late 1980s. Then two scientists = claimed to have found a way of generating nuclear energy from a similar-looking device at room temperature. The findings were widely challenged and the scientists, Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons, accused of incompetence, fled America to set up labs in France. "We are absolutely not saying this is cold fusion, or that we have found a = way round the law of energy conservation," said Christopher Davies, the managing director of Gardner Watts. "What we are saying is that the device seems to tap into another, previousl= y unrecognised source of energy." According to Mr Davies, the cell is the product of research into the fundamental properties of hydrogen, the most common element in the universe. He argues that calculations based on quantum theory, the laws of the sub-atomic world, suggest that hydrogen can exist in a so-called metastable state that harbours a potential source of extra energy. This theory suggests that if electricity were passed into a mixture of wate= r and a chemical catalyst, the extra energy would be released in the form of heat. After some experimentation, the team found that a small amount of electricity passed through a mixture of water and potassium carbonate - potash - released an astonishing amount of energy. "It generates a lot of heat in a very small volume," said Christopher Eccle= s, the chief scientist at Gardner Watts. The findings of the Gardner Watts team were tested by Dr Jason Riley of Bristol University, who found energy gains of between three and 26 times what had been put in. In a written report, Dr Riley concluded: "Using the apparatus supplied by Gardner Watts and the procedure of analysis suggested by the company, there appears to be an energy gain in the system." In tests performed for The Telegraph, the cell heated water to near-boiling, apparently producing more than three times the amount of energy fed into it. Scientists admit to being astonished by the sheer size of the energy increase produced by the cell. "I've never seen a claim like this before," = said Prof Stephen Smith of the physics department at Essex University. "In the case of cold fusion, people talked about getting a 10 per cent energy gain or so, which could be explained away quite easily but this is much too big for that." Prof Smith said he was sceptical about the theory put forward by the company. He conceded, however, that scientists had also been baffled by the source of energy driving radioactivity, as the key equation involved= - Einstein's famous E=MC2 - had yet to be discovered. According to Prof Smith, if there is a flaw in the company's claims, it lie= s in the measurement of the amount of electrical energy pumped into the cell. It is possible that, as sparks pass between the electrodes, there is an energy surge which would not be picked up by the instruments measuring the electrical input. Prof Smith said: "This needs to be very carefully checked, as there could be far more energy going in than the makers think." Prof Smith's views were echoed by Dr Riley, who said: "There's no doubt that there was a heat rise but I'd like to see a more thorough investigatio= n of the electrical energy supplied into the cell." While many scientists are trying to solve the mystery of the thermal energy cell, its huge commercial potential has already caused interest. Cambridge Consultants, one of Britain's most prestigious technology consultancies, has teamed up with Mr Davies and his colleagues to develop a working prototype. "We've had a multi-disciplinary team working on this, and we're perplexed," said Duncan Bishop, head of process development at Cambridge Consultants. "We are offering to risk-share on it, as it will need about £200,000 to prove the pr
[biofuel] Fw: [wastewatts] Potash, water and electricity = heat?
Saw this on another list, and looks interesting if it is for real. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 14:52 Subject: [wastewatts] Potash, water and electricity = heat? > Link below is two lines long... > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml%3B$sessionid$UTFLVFU5KGT1XQFIQMGSFFOAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2003/05/18/ncell18.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/05/18/ixhome > .html > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: The Urban Ecology Of Cannabis @ HEMP SA
>From: "Duncan Emmerson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: The Urban Ecology Of Cannabis @ HEMP SA >Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:44:31 +1200 > > > > >http://www.hemp.on.net/final_folder/about_us/what_weve_done/campaigns/industrial_env/urbecocan.html _ ninemsn Extra Storage is now available. 30MB of storage on ninemsn Groups - great for sharing photos and documents. Go to http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/home&pgmarket=en-au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: ninemsn Search hitler and flourine -- More Useful Everyday
>From: "Duncan Emmerson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: ninemsn Search hitler and flourine -- More Useful Everyday >Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:23:57 +1200 > > > > >http://search.ninemsn.com.au/results.asp?RS=CHECKED&Form=HM&cp=1252&v=1&q=hitler+and+flourine&x=31&y=13 _ ninemsn Extra Storage is now available. No account expiration - no need to worry about losing your Hotmail account. Go to http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/home&pgmarket=en-au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] solar colector ( was Re: price of methanol )
Do you have any pics. or drawings of it? Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Brent S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 08:54 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: price of methanol > Wish I had somewhere to take a course. I have always been far ahead of > everyone in my thinking and as such, end up being laughed at an ridiculed > about new things. It also means doing things the hard way most of the time. > > Last year I built a solar colector out of ABS pipe. I have gotten 140 deg. > out of it with no trouble and know I can get it a few deg. warmer. I would > use that as a preheat, reducing the energy required to take it to the > boiling point of methanol. You metioned heating both the diesel and > glycerine. I assume you do this after settling. Do you stir it as well > during the distilling? > > Thanx > Brent > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fire Mitigation
I forgot to comment that if they don't get going, and the 40 million acres most at risk burns, before they get started, there won't be much environment left to study. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 15:52 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fire Mitigation > >From: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Date: Tue May 20, 2003 0:24am > >Subject: > > > >Fire Mitigation > >AP > > > >U.S. House Republicans and the Bush administration are moving this > >week toward speeding up projects to reduce the fire threat on > >millions of federal acres. > > > >Environmentalists and the administration agree cutting trees from > >overgrown areas or burning choked forests under controlled > >conditions would reduce the threat. But the two sides are split on > >whether environmental impact studies should be suspended before the > >cutting and burning happen on the 40 million acres most at risk for > >wildfires. > > > >An estimated 73 million acres of national forests and 107 million > >acres of other federal lands are at heightened risk for major fires > >because aggressive firefighting has left them thick with small, > >flammable trees and growth. > > On the other hand... > > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=24905&list=BIOFUEL > > http://www.enn.com/news/2003-05-15/s_4450.asp > Investigation finds most forest treatment projects not seriously > delayed by appeals > 15 May 2003 > By Robert Gehrke, Associated Press > > http://ens-news.com/ens/may2003/2003-05-14-09.asp > GAO Report Adds Fuel to the Wildfire Debate > > Also: > > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2003/05 > /15/MN272143.DTL > Appeals don't stall most forest thinning projects > 95% of wildfire protection projects on target, GAO says > Zachary Coile, Chronicle Washington Bureau > Thursday, May 15, 2003 > > Also: > http://www.wilderness.org/NewsRoom/Release/20030514.cfm > New GAO Report Shows Public Participation, Appeals Do Not Interfere > With Fuel Reduction > > Uh.. no need to take any notice of that last one, they're > environmental whackoes after all, LOL! > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] FFA
Hello Keith The WVO smell makes you gag. Just think I lived there for 2 years being none the wiser. I guess well what you dont know cant hurt - that much anyhow! The solid precipitate forms quite rapidly. It maybe glycerol, it can't be many other compounds in all honesty. Regards Mark __ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] supposed benefits of fluorine was toothpaste as poison
Have a look on the nexus magazine site for "the real reason that flouride is used". Conspiracy theory? Who's knows, but it reads well. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Natural pH-Indicators
On Mon, 19 May 2003 02:01 pm, Tom Gehlen wrote: > I"m being faced with the clean up of rather heavy clay soaked with old > motor oil. What are the most effective processes currently being used for > reclaiming such an environmental problem. Is there a process that produces > a positive environmental effect?? > > Tom G. what sort of volume of material are we talking about? -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen Fuel Leak Simulation Dr. Michael R. Swain
On Sun, 18 May 2003 11:08 am, kirk wrote: > http://www.unusualresearch.com/Hydrogen/hydrogen.htm Hi all. personally I wouldn't trust anything coming from a site that, to my mind, has all the hallmarks of a "crack-pot" science site On the other hand, hydrogen is well know to have a smaller explosive fuel/air mixture range that petrol. that's not the problem, however, as the small size of H2 is such that it is very difficult to contain, it does not compress well (to a liquid) and has a significant role in embrittling metals, especially welds. consequently the reason H is difficult (and hence expensive) to deal with is the cost of ensuring it does not leak. Especially compared to things like methane and the higher hydrocarbons and alcohols. Metal hydrides, on the other hand, are a different matter, if they can be made to work on a continuous duty cycle. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. They say it is to see how the world was made." Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Wind Power -- a European Success Story
NO...Because it is intermittent, wind can not be relied upon for use in the on- demand part of the power supply. The wind might die just when you need it. Therefore, if it is in the base supply, and the wind dies, the on-demand stuff such as gas turbine supply can kick in to make up the deficit. The wind generators spread through the Pyrenees in Spain cover such a large geographical area, that I would assume that there would be a fairly constant average production. This, IMO, would work well in the base power production, and would obviate any need to try to engineer storage solutions. Any storage mechanism I have ever seen was quite wasteful of power. They only were of use because they made use of 'waste power' during times of low use. If the swings in power consumption can be minimized, and the use of on-demand power optimized, there would be little need for storage. For the home producer of wind power, then some form of storage would be needed, or use of the grid as a large 'battery', since one would be dependent upon a single wind generator. For when the wind dies, one would need the storage backup or an alternate source of power, such as a biodiesel fueled generator. Derek Derek Derek > intermittent power by its very nature cannot be used for base. > Wind can displace gas turbine power because the gas turbine can quickly fill > the gap if the wind drops. > Kirk > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 4:16 AM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Wind Power -- a European Success Story > > > My understnding is that in most places in the world they use the cheapest > form > of electricity in the base. Then, as demand increases, they add more > expensive > forms. So...they have a large base of hydro and coal. As demand increases in > the summer, they might add gas turbine generated electricity to meet this > peak > demand. My feeling on wind power is that you would never need to worry about > storage. Just feed it into the base use of electricity. Try to build it up > to a > relatively large percentage of total use. However, you wouldn't try to make > it > 100%. Maybe 80% of peak use, covering the valleys. Then, supplement with > biodiesel fired generators, or some other source, for the final 20% or so. > No > need for storage, and all demands are met with renewables. > > Where my in-laws live in Spain, they are attaining approvimately 20% of the > region's electrical demand from wind generation. Another percentage comes > from > burning straw/hay in a power plant. The remainder of need on top of this > comes > from various non-renewable sources, which hopefully will be diminished. > > Derek > > On Sat, 17 May 2003 12:20 am, Bryan Brah wrote: > > > As Hakan has said storage of wind generated electricity will be the > > > hardest problem to solve if we are to rely on it for our power needs. > > > > actually, any environmentally derived power has this problem, potentially. > > > > specifically, the amount of power cannot be shifted to meet demand > > arbitrarily. > > > > so, we can either store the power, over provision, or change our > lifestyles to > > match the available power not mutually exclusive ofcourse. personally > I > > think we need to do all three. :-) > > > > storing power is actually relatively easy. batteries are fine but lossy > and > > environmentally troublesome, but they work. energy density is a serious > > problem here... I beileve (from memory) that zinc is a reasonable material > > for storage of electrical power. > > > > better from my pov is PV decomp of water then use the Sabtier Reaction > > (reverse water gas) to make methane from H2 + CO2 over Pt hotwire or > Alumina > > > supported catalyst. - or just store the H2 - though this has other > problems. > > > > when you want to use the power pass the methane or H2 through a fuel cell, > > keeping the reaction products for the charging cycle... :-) liquid fuel > self > > presurising battery! > > > > > > -- > > Dr Paul van den Bergen > > Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures > > caia.swin.edu.au > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > IM:bulwynkl2002 > > "And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones > > to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. > > They say it is to see how the world was made." > > Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe m
Re: [biofuel] filtering oil
I can get cleanable stainless steel mesh. I bought some 25 micron to make a reusable filter for my mercedes two tank system. I plan to buy some 80 micron and 5 micron mesh as well. If anyone wants some too I can order some extra. Andy - Original Message - From: "William Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 10:15 PM Subject: [biofuel] filtering oil > Does anyone know of a reason newspaper can't be used as a filter for wvo? > > Bill C. > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Cal Energy Commision
Well, as some of you know, the CEC & ARB (Cal Energy Commission & Air Resources Board) are doing a joint "study" in response to legislation (a law) to find ways to reduce petroleum use in California. I attended the latest public "workshop" to offer my silly ideas and hear their good ones. To sum up, their good ideas were to use natural gas as a straight fuel, to use natural gas to make Fischer Tropsch blend diesel, and to use natural gas. Oh, also, they will recommend purchase of a new fleet of govt vehicles (natural gas) and for good measure there is an extensive study indicating proper tire inflation will do some good. There is token mention of E-85, and ethanol - so maybe the new fleet will include some E-85 ready vehicles. Biodiesel is also mentioned, so surely the new govt fleet will include some diesel vehicles that could use it, or maybe be converted to use natural gas. LPG somehow made it onto the slate of solutions as well. As a marketing study for natural gas, the 2 inch thick set of reports, prepared by CEC, ARB and private contractors, will surely save the natural gas industry a ton of money as they develop their marketing strategies. I submitted my silly ideas to a somber crowd of well dressed consultant and govt official types, and there were a couple blue collar types, and even one professor type - but mostly this looked and felt like a stockholders meeting for the natural gas industry. There, I said it. After I read my 2 page summary, which focused greatly on how many die each year, but also how the proposition would actually exceed the desired 15% reduction by 5% - Susan Brown smiled and politely said they had covered the idea in their report - I could not resist replying that one page in a 2 inch thick report was unacceptable for such a well qualified body, and that 2 paragraphs from Highway Patrol consultant Keller hardly amounted to justification for dismissing the idea. I was polite, they were nervous. Clearly this is just not an option - I understand why. It would reduce petroleum use by as much as 20% and that is NOT what they are trying to achieve. They want 15% (or less). As a matter of fact, at the last minute they reduced their predicted results to a 10% decrease rather than the requested 15%. Plus they need to switch the market demand to another commodity controlled by their handlers, which would be, u, natural gas. The whole thing sickened me to this point: I surrender. I give up. No one wants to slow down to conserve energy. They simply will not hear of it, so I give up on that for now. I will leave www.drive55.org up (because I can), but I will not waste another btu of my energy on it. Nor will the CEC, ARB, DOE, EPA or any other agency populated by well educated well paid natural gas industry reps anytime soon. Nor will any of the so-called eco types such as NRDC, nor the dozens of political action groups that got the press release such as MoveOn.org or for that matter any of the good readers of this list, or any of the others I have pitched the idea to (maybe its my colorful personality?). Maybe instead we should subsidize Hummers. Equip them with natural gas capable V12's, 2 gallon natural gas tanks to supplement 50 gallon gasoline tanks and drop all the power robbing smog control devices altogether. This would accelerate everything, and that seems to be the order of the day - SPEED. Add a/c and cable TV to make it just like home with individual screens for the kids (yep they make them) and give everyone that wants one their piece of the american pie if they will just agree to send at least one of their offspring to rampage around the world killing dummies who happen to have our oil under their sand (or ice). That would surely accelerate things indeed. = Average BTU consumed Per Passenger mile by mode of travel: SUV: 4,591 Air: 4,123 Bus: 3,729 Car: 3,672 Train: 2,138 Source: Bureau of Transportation Statistics http://199.79.179.77/publications/nts/index.html It is not a sign of good health to be well adjusted to a sick society. __ J. Krishnamurti (1895-1986) = Average BTU consumed Per Passenger mile by mode of travel: SUV: 4,591 Air: 4,123 Bus: 3,729 Car: 3,672 Train: 2,138 Source: Bureau of Transportation Statistics http://199.79.179.77/publications/nts/index.html It is not a sign of good health to be well adjusted to a sick society. __ J. Krishnamurti (1895-1986) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To uns
Re: [biofuel] todd Sewaringen's acid-base test batch method reposted again
Hi Mark A ??? - what was wrong with "Girl Mark"? :-) >oops, sorry about sending the last lengthy message twice. > >Here is Todd Swearingen's modified two-stage acid base method for test >batches: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biodiesel/message/2504 > >Please take a look at it if you're interested in trying out this method, maby >people are put off by thinking they'll need a specialized reactor to try acid- >base (I certainly thought so for a long time). I don't know why people think that - can you tell me why? If there's something that misleads I'll fix it. > However, I fully agree with Todd that it';s STUPID to use an open flame >around alcohols. Please do this on an electric hot plate, or in a >crockpot as a >hot-water bath, not the way he's suggesting (sorry Todd!) I've become sceptical (okay - even more sceptical) about shaking stuff up in bottles. I posted this recently about it, and also about test batches for acid-base - guess you missed it because you were in Iowa: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=24875&list=BIOFUEL This is the acid-base bit: >For acid-base two-stage mini-batch tests, by the way, we stand a >small stainless steel pot in a double-boiler on a hot plate and >agitate with a drill and paint-stirrer. No problem. It's not actually a double-boiler, it's for making spaghetti - the inner "pot" is full of holes like a collander. Pre-heat the oil in the "reactor" pot. Pre-heat water in the double boiler. Figure out the water level first - as much as possible but not enough for the reactor pot (plus oil etc) to float. The reactor pot has a quite tight-fitting lid with a hole for the stirrer. The reactor pot is kept in position with four small PET bottles filled with water wedged between it and the collander. Drill mounted on a stand. Easy to maintain the temp. Then just follow the directions: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Best Keith >mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] correction- equilibrium was acid esterification Re: FFA
I wrote something confusing in that tome of a post- here's a correction: I wrote : > > this allows in the industrial scenario for several neat tricks (all depending > on > methanol recovery) > the methanol/water can be boiled off in a still or flash evaporator during > the > process, so as to keep pushing equilibrium to the right in the equation. and what I really meant to write had something to do with this: "the methanol/water can be boiled off and more (dry) methanol added during the reaction , so as to keep pushing the reaction to the right. ", or two stages of acid esterification can happen. Also I menationed something about the most dramatic changes in ffa happening with the worst oil- they basically talked about a two-stage-of-acid process there- the first application of acid brought the ffa level down the most, and they'd normally give it anotehr esterification stage, to bring it lower still. (they expected the 80% stuff to come down to 2 or so percent, which normally would have meant that they'd have hit it with acid again after removing the water/methanol. It worked unusually well that time in the lab so a second acid reaction was unnecessary that time mark > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] todd Sewaringen's acid-base test batch method reposted again
oops, sorry about sending the last lengthy message twice. Here is Todd Swearingen's modified two-stage acid base method for test batches: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biodiesel/message/2504 Please take a look at it if you're interested in trying out this method, maby people are put off by thinking they'll need a specialized reactor to try acid- base (I certainly thought so for a long time). However, I fully agree with Todd that it';s STUPID to use an open flame around alcohols. Please do this on an electric hot plate, or in a crockpot as a hot-water bath, not the way he's suggesting (sorry Todd!) mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] acid esterification Re: FFA
OK, different Mark chiming in, my turn: I've been wondering about this white precipitate too. I haven't seen too much 'first stage glycerine' in general because I dont' usually make test batches (but Todd can you PLEASE re-post your test batch method for acid-base like you just did on another list. I periodically like to re-post his test batch method on this list, hope some of you guys have seen it). Since I don' tusually do test batches, I usually don't see what is going on in the bottom of my reactor. But a month ago I took a sample of the first-stage product, so as to 'trick' some students whom I was teaching titration to- I had them titrate the oil this stuff came from, and the first stage product,. without telling them what it was, to illustrate the way that FFA drops with acid-base. After they remarked that it was nice oil I got to tell them that it wasn't just oil, which led to a discussion of how this got achieved. ANyway the stuff has been sitting in a jar for over a month and it's developed a good amount of white precipitate. It looked solid to me at first. But it took a while for that precipitate to develop. Tonight I was just startring to fool around with my biodiesel gear after being away for a week... and ran across the jar of acid-stage sample, and remembered Mark's question. Mark S, are you seeing this stuff dceveloping right away? Anyway I moved the jar around a little and this stuff didn't look solid. It looks something like water with a thick load of a solid, like water with a bunch of powdered sugar or starch dissolved in it. It also dropped in acid number (ie lower value on a titration) from 1.5 to 1 on a titration in the past month, continuing to react very slowly??? I just came from the Iowa State University course on commercial biodiesel production, and one of the reasons I went to the program was to learn more aobut industrial acid-base. We ended up esterifying trap grease in the lab- eighty percent free fatty acids- which was quite impressive. the industrial process esterified it to .78 percent ffa, and they certainly made a big deal out of the fact that their process makes themost dramatic difference in bad quality oil, though they just do two stages of esterification if need be, before going on to transesterification base stage.. It was also a great illlustration of what ALeks was talking about when he says that reaction is much more equilibrium-sensitive (than base trans-e). We used differing amounts of sulfuric and differing amounts of methanol which both depended on the ffa content (figured out using a slightly more complicated titration than homebrewers do). The amount of methanol was immense, a practice completely out of reach of homebrewers without methanol recovery to attempt (though you'd literally have to go digging in a sewer to find eighty percent ffa grease). In the case of the eightly percent ffa stuff, (someone wrote me wanting to know what the heck they were eating in that place before the grease went down the drain!), the methanol volume used was more than the amount of grease we actually started with. It was unimportant that it was so expensive in methanol because that process depends entirely on methanol recovery as a way to make this kind of usage possible (flash evaporators in their case). ANyway, I learned a number of interesting things: The acid reaction produces water, this is well known. Once there's enough water formed, the water eventually stops this reaction from going any further (equilibrium). This is part of why it is so important to start with dry oil. IN the case of my sample from a month ago, I definitely didn't dry all the water out of the oil before starting the acid-base process on it. It by the way was not "grim" oil, I do this process on normal oil quite a bit. Also, another thing we learned was that with enough excess methanol, the methanol in acid-esterification will start to separate from the oil after agitation is complete. This separating methanol also contains some sulfuric acid- and the WATER that is formed by the reaction. Depending on how much methanol you use, the methanol/sulfuric/water phase (layer) either weighs more or it weighs less than the oil. In the case of our eightly percent ffa grease, we saw something that looked for all the world like a toxic 'biodiesel'- a great big amber colored methanol/water/ sulfuric layer above, and a very dark brown ester/ffa/triglyceride mix below (we were using more methanol than grease). However, if you used less methanol, the phases would be reversed- which I think is what ALeks' recipe produces given the lesser amount of methanol. The upper phase would be oil/ester/any unreacted ffa, and the lower layer is what he calls first stage glycerine and Todd calls first stage methanol. It's a darker layer than the biodiesel, when I've seen it. this allows in the industrial scenario for several neat tri
