RE: [biofuels-biz] World's First CO2-neutral Designer Diesel Fuel Presented
My exact thoughts also, Keith. Christopher =-Original Message- =From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 11:40 AM =To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] World's First CO2-neutral Designer Diesel =Fuel Presented = = =Hi Marcelino and all = =Certainly it's not biodiesel, it's a Fischer-Tropsch fuel, as you say. = =The reason for my Huh??? Um... is that I somehow thought maybe =biodiesel is the World's First CO2-neutral Designer Diesel Fuel. = =By the way, a Biofuel list member sent me this some time back: = = One of our oldest scientists, now 84 yrs. old, was responsible for =going into Germany post WWII and uncovering the remains of Hitler's =synthetic fuels machine which had been bombed out. I'm speaking of =Fischer-Tropsch oily-based paraffins which are hydrocracked down =into shorter chains for synthetic gasoline, jet fuel and diesel. He =brought back some of the original German scientists who'd perfected =this technology which utilized coarse, low-grade brown German coal =as feedstock. Three times he tried to start-up an American version =of synthetic hydrocarbon fuels in the GTL arena and was blocked. As =the highest ranking American energy technologist post WWII, he =couldn't figure this out. It was over 20 years later that he =realized that the late John Rockefeller of Standard Oil [Exxon] had =been the politic behind the scenes, making sure that his new, =alternative fuel ideas did not materialize. This scientist then took =his blueprints for the first major GTL project and gave them to =Sasol who built his first coal gasification device back in 1953 and =it is still operating today. Sasol from South Africa is the oldest =synthetic fuels producer globally. = =regards = =Keith = = =Friends, = =I've been reading on this and the product is not BD (biodiesel). = =The process is biomass to syn gas by high temperature =gasification, and then =to synthetic diesel, quite similar to petroleum diesel. = =Is similar to the coal to oil process of giant Sasol, the South African =producer of synthetic petroleum, in this case from coal, via syn =gas and the =Fisher Tropsch process. = =Marcelino =- Original Message - =From: Christopher Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] =To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com =Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 12:11 AM =Subject: RE: [biofuels-biz] World's First CO2-neutral Designer =Diesel Fuel =Presented = = = Sounds like Bio-d to me. = = Christopher = = =-Original Message- = =From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] = =Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 5:41 AM = =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com = =Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com = =Subject: [biofuels-biz] World's First CO2-neutral Designer =Diesel Fuel = =Presented = = = = = =Huh??? Um... = = = = = =http://www.h2cars.biz/artman/publish/article_197.shtml = = = =World's First CO2-neutral Designer Diesel Fuel Presented = = = =By Poul Erik Bak based on material from DaimlerChrysler = =Jun 30, 2003, 18:21 = = = =The new biofuel, which DaimlerChrysler has named Biotrol, can be = =added without any difficulty to current fuels and may become = =important in the fuel-portfolio to combat emissions and = =oil-dependence. = = = =At the Environmental Press Conference held in Stuttgart, = =DaimlerChrysler AG presented the world's first synthetic =diesel fuel, = =which does not affect the CO2 atmospheric balance in the atmosphere = =during driving. This fuel is produced by the complete utilization of = =organic substances. The carbon dioxide originating in the engine on = =combustion is taken from the air as plants grow. = = = =This eliminates the additional entry of carbon dioxide into the = =atmosphere by fuel produced from petroleum during driving, a = =situation which has existed since the time cars were first = =introduced. Accordingly, the Group assigns high significance to the = =production of the biofuel: Professor Jrgen Hubbert Member of the = =Board of Management of DaimlerChrysler AG responsible for the = =Mercedes Car Group: We are at the start of a promising =development. = = = =According to Dr. Weber, deputy Member of the Board of Management of = =DaimlerChrysler AG with responsibility for Research and Technology, = =the fuel is the cleanest and most environmentally friendly diesel = =ever. It is produced in a research project supported by the Federal = =Ministry for Economics and Labor jointly with the Choren company in = =Freiberg in Saxony, where Choren has facilities for converting the = =biomass from wood residue into fuel. This is the first system of its = =type in the world. Volkswagen also joined the research =project in the = =fall of last year. = = = =The new biofuel, which DaimlerChrysler has christened with the name = =of Biotrol, can be added without any difficulty to current fuels. = =The research work is currently in the beginning stage of clarifying = =if Biotrol can be used as an exclusive
[biofuels-biz] Re: biofuels
Hi Kieth, I was wondering if you could post a note on the Biofuel forum for anbody who knows where to get methanol in the Cambridge area or East Anglia, thnkyou very much best regards Martin Brook. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Syngenta?
thought you might enjoy this... it is not bio diesel, but it does save fossil carbons from entering the atmosphere basically carbon neutral. and simple... Press Release AIRE (Agricultural Industrial Renewable Energy) is a Kansas producer group. Spokesman Gene Pflughoft has announced that AIRE is working with several Kansas companies on renewable energy facilities to produce steam or hot water energy. With the rising cost of natural gas, many companies are asking AIRE to help stabilize their energy cost with long term contracts. AIRE will be looking for agricultural producers to provide 100,000 tons of biomass material for their first project. The first project will be located in the Reno County area. The biomass purchased will give the farmers about a $2 to $4 million return on their biomass products. Using the economic development formula, the money turns 7 times in a community, representing a possible $14 to $28 million boost to Reno County. AIRE is working with Earth Care Products Inc. to design and equip the energy plants. The energy plants will convert biomass into thermal energy for steam and hot water. A second project will require 25,000 tons of biomass in the central region of Kansas. Biomass can be wheat straw, corn stover, milo stalks, switch grass, animal waste, grass clippings and tree trimmings. The first project is planned to be completed in the summer of 2004. Interested producers should call AIRE at 620-727-5862 for more information. Much of the equipment will be manufactured by Kansas manufacturers. AIRE and Earth Care Products Inc., have been researching the biomass projects for several years. Recent articles have indicated a much higher price for natural gas. These economic conditions of higher energy prices have made the biomass facilities a long term profitable venture for both the customer and the producer. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Syngenta? Hi MM Thanks for posting this. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585ncid=585e=1u=/n m/20030802/sc_nm/science_food_review_dc World's Leading Agribusiness? Never heard of them. Figures. Syngenta, previously AstraZeneca, the world's third largest seed corporation, holder of at least nine Terminator patents at last count, etc etc etc. One of the major Gene Giants, very little to choose between it and Monsanto, they'll behave the same way. For instance (out of a BIG grab-bag, 231 documents about Syngenta): America's food aid program provides a massive hidden subsidy to its farmers. But, as a recent report by Greenpeace shows, they are not the only beneficiaries. One of USAID's stated objectives is to integrate GM into local food systems. Earlier this year, it launched a $100m program for bringing biotechnology to developing countries. USAID's training and awareness raising programs will, its website reveals, provide companies such as Syngenta, Pioneer Hi-Bred and Monsanto with opportunities for technology transfer into the poor world. Monsanto, in turn, provides financial support for USAID. The famine will permit USAID to accelerate this strategy. It knows that some of the grain it exports to southern Africa will be planted by farmers for next year's harvest. Once contamination is widespread, the governments of those nations will no longer be able to sustain a ban on the technology. -- From: The Covert Biotech War, by George Monbiot, November 21, 2002 http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14599 Try a search for Syngenta here: http://ngin.tripod.com/search.html See: The Gene Giants: Masters of the Universe? March 30, 1999 Update on Consolidation in the Life Industry ETC group, formerly RAFI - the Rural Advancement Foundation International http://www.etcgroup.org/article.asp?newsid=180 Anyway Keith, I thought this might interest you. It sounds like they're sort of trying to include a diversity of opinions, so perhaps those of yourself and other like-minded folks won't be excluded, as they would be if it was a one-sided Monsanto show. Even if not, I would think they'd fail to take all this into account (though Greenpeace sees things this way, which might help): Technology and the poor The United Nations Development Programme's Human Development Report 2001 -- Making new technologies work for human development attempts to address a key question for the 21st century: will technology entrench millions in even greater poverty -- or can it be used to eradicate poverty and suffering? But it chooses the wrong challenge. The key issue is not making new technologies work for human development. The challenge is enabling poor
Re: [biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Connecting the Wildfire Issue and the Biofuel Issue
What you're suggesting seems to be that in order to avoid all that grief for those persons foolish enough to build in places prone to the occasional forest fire that the national government should comit to a massive road building campaign to the uppermost reaches of the headwaters of every watershed across the land, all so a national thinning project can take place. No. I may have put my ideas incorrectly, and it is a bit of a confusing topic, so let me clarify what I think about this, and what I'm suggesting. I have deleted the brunt of what you wrote not out of disrespect but because I want to present simply and clearly because I think there's some confusion here. First, I think the conflagrations, however terrible, should be viewed not only as a threat to property and lives, but also as evidence, to those who might not recognize it, of the huge amount of energy incident up on the earth. In this case it's converted to biofuels. As to the folks who build in the wilderness and need their homes protected, I don't exactly have a tough shit attitude, but I don't advocate spending every effort to protect every inch of human structures. What I had in mind, as to specific suggestions, was more of the modest-sized efforts I'd heard about in Oroville, CA (a local wood-material incinerator) and in Flagstaff, AZ (where their efforts caught my eye in part because they've partly succeeded in some remediation, they claim, and because their answers didn't seem simplistic but seemed to say that a combination and variety of remediation methods seemed to work best for them so far.) So, if we identify more localities where they're going to attempt some remediation anyway, then I think they could be encouraged to install some modestly-priced modest-sized wood-to-electricity facilities, even if only as a semi-temporary measure until they get their local forests back into a healthy balance. So, I think Im suggesting to some extent the opposite of the overly ambitious giganto-sized project covering virtually everything that you took me to be suggesting. Once the idea of wood-to-electricity is in place and somewhat more widespread, Id think that folks would want to sometimes expand it, such as if-when they find their electricity costs are out of control from other sources. At that point, you could evaluate if and to what extent you'd want to get into more exploitive use of forests. I admit this was part of my original idea... no reason not to cut down a few trees and use them, but I don't think I had in mind cutting down virtually all the forests of the world everywhere, just to encourage a bit more use of them, starting with localized remdiation that is going to have to happen anyway, with or without wood-to-electricity. One of the things I forgot to mention about Oroville is that much of the wood is of a type that isn't much good for building, and perhaps it was said it's not ideal for firewood. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Distillery Fire
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=519ncid=718e=9u=/ap/20030804/ap_on_re_us/distillery_fire Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: [BIOC] Treasure Valley Ethanol Plant
What is the geographical location of this facility? On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:29:17 +0900 Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fwd - posted by Tom Miles to the BIOCONVERSION list. Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 17:26:46 -0700 Sender: The Bioconversion Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Tom Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [BIOC] Treasure Valley Ethanol Plant To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] An article about the Treasure Valley Renewable Resource biorefinery (Oregon) indicates that the plant will produce ethanol and also starch, fiber and protein for human dietary products. What is the value of the dietary products relative to the ethanol in a plant processing 11.7 million tons of wheat, barley corn and milo per year? Tom Miles Articles: Oregonian http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/business- 0/1059939241123260.xml Idaho Stateman http://www.idahostatesman.com/Business/story.asp?ID=45112 Montana Associated Technology Roundtable http://www.matr.net/article-7522.html It says: Hursh expects the refinery to provide a contract market for locally grown grains and to trigger spinoff industries. They could include dairies, feedlots, hog and chicken farms, and possibly producers of beer, wine and soft drinks that would use carbon dioxide generated by the plant, he said. Proteins produced in the refinery will be marketed as ingredients in baking products and fish meal for fish farms, Hamilton said. Fiber will be sold for sport drinks and as a component for dietary products designed to reduce cholesterol and prevent colon cancer, he said. The starches will be used for baking and brewery products, and as an abrasive to clean drill holes in well-drilling operations. ... all of which seem a lot more marginal than the obvious (?) spin-off of producing biodiesel from the grain oils - will they be doing that? Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: research:water hyacinth
Aileen, Maybe this is what you are looking for. Thanks to Todd. Thermal Depolymerization http://www.happyvalleyasylum.com/ratched/archives/000778.php http://www.discover.com/may_03/featoil.html Christopher =-Original Message- =From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 1:54 PM =To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] World's First CO2-neutral Designer Diesel =Fuel Presented = = ==Choren has facilities for converting the ==biomass from wood residue into fuel. = = = Sounds like Bio-d to me. = = Christopher = =Something a bit diff from veg-oil biodiesel. Perhaps more along =the lines of =thermal depolymerization? =http://www.happyvalleyasylum.com/ratched/archives/000778.php =http://www.discover.com/may_03/featoil.html = =Todd Swearingen = = =-Original Message- = =From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] = =Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 5:41 AM = =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com = =Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com = =Subject: [biofuels-biz] World's First CO2-neutral Designer Diesel Fuel = =Presented = = = = = =Huh??? Um... = = = = = =http://www.h2cars.biz/artman/publish/article_197.shtml = = = =World's First CO2-neutral Designer Diesel Fuel Presented = = = =By Poul Erik Bak based on material from DaimlerChrysler = =Jun 30, 2003, 18:21 = = = =The new biofuel, which DaimlerChrysler has named Biotrol, can be = =added without any difficulty to current fuels and may become = =important in the fuel-portfolio to combat emissions and = =oil-dependence. = = = =At the Environmental Press Conference held in Stuttgart, = =DaimlerChrysler AG presented the world's first synthetic diesel fuel, = =which does not affect the CO2 atmospheric balance in the atmosphere = =during driving. This fuel is produced by the complete utilization of = =organic substances. The carbon dioxide originating in the engine on = =combustion is taken from the air as plants grow. = = = =This eliminates the additional entry of carbon dioxide into the = =atmosphere by fuel produced from petroleum during driving, a = =situation which has existed since the time cars were first = =introduced. Accordingly, the Group assigns high significance to the = =production of the biofuel: Professor Jrgen Hubbert Member of the = =Board of Management of DaimlerChrysler AG responsible for the = =Mercedes Car Group: We are at the start of a promising development. = = = =According to Dr. Weber, deputy Member of the Board of Management of = =DaimlerChrysler AG with responsibility for Research and Technology, = =the fuel is the cleanest and most environmentally friendly diesel = =ever. It is produced in a research project supported by the Federal = =Ministry for Economics and Labor jointly with the Choren company in = =Freiberg in Saxony, where Choren has facilities for converting the = =biomass from wood residue into fuel. This is the first system of its = =type in the world. Volkswagen also joined the research project in the = =fall of last year. = = = =The new biofuel, which DaimlerChrysler has christened with the name = =of Biotrol, can be added without any difficulty to current fuels. = =The research work is currently in the beginning stage of clarifying = =if Biotrol can be used as an exclusive fuel, or whether engine = =modifications are necessary. The research also involves economic = =viability calculations, questions on sustained production and matters = =of the overall impact on the production of energy. = = = =Since the fuel can be easily added to existing diesel fuel, there is = =a reduction in new CO2 emission from new vehicles in existing fleets = =as well as a potential for reduction in new CO2 emissions from all = =diesel vehicles, depending on the mixture ratio once the fuel is = =available. = = = =In the view of the company, from today's perspective in the next = =decade a considerable share of EU diesel consumption could be covered = =with biofuels. = = = =Dr. Thomas Weber has offered to cooperate with the mineral oil = =industry. Political circles in Berlin and Brussels have encouraged = =Weber to support the further development with clever decision = =making, in particular differentiating in environmental discussions = =between CO2 emissions from bio and fossil sources. = = = =According to the company, the production costs for Biotrol, which are = =currently at EUR 0.7 per liter, are still two to three times that of = =conventional fuels. With the further development of production = =techniques and optimized distribution, DaimlerChrysler expects that = =costs will continue to decline. Since bio fuels have been exempted = =from gasoline tax since last year, Biotrol can be offered at = =competitive prices even today. = = = =At the opening of the first
Re: [biofuel] Joshua Tickell is having an event in San Francisco 7/26/03
tag1les wrote: I'm going to this tomorrow, I'll let everybody know how it went! And so? Best Keith Fields of Fuel FUNdraiser Acclaimed biodiesel expert and filmmaker Joshua Tickell will hold a fundraiser for his upcoming feature documentary Fields of Fuel. Tickell will be joined by a host of other biodiesel personalities including event M.C. Betty Biodiesel known in the Bay Area for her Biofuels 4 Schools Program and Charris Ford, biodiesel activist and star of Rocky Mountain Film Fest's winning environmental documentary, French Fries to Go. The FUNdraiser will be a compilation of short films, music and skits on the subject of biodiesel, a fuel made from any type of vegetable oil. Famous for his Veggie Van USA Tours in the late 1990's (www.VeggieVan.org), Joshua Tickell has been working with biodiesel fuel since he saw it on a farm in Germany in 1996. After two tours in his Veggie Van and a book (From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank: The Complete Guide to Using Vegetable Oil as an Alternative Fuel), Tickell settled on making the film. It's the only way to create a critical mass around biodiesel, he says. Tickell will show his short film The Veggie Van Voyage; Charris Ford will present French Fries to Go; Several local musicians will perform; Tickell will give a biodiesel slide show; there will be a raffle of cool prizes from local businesses, and a public forum to discuss biodiesel. The goal of the benefit is to raise $20,000, enough for the film crew of Fields of Fuel, to complete their first leg of filming through Europe. Tickets are available at the event or advance purchase online at www.VeggieVan.org. For more information, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Venue Info -- CELLspace 2050 Bryant street Between 18th/19th San Francisco 415-648-7562 www.cellspace.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Using pH to determine optimum methoxide level.
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Using pH to determine optimum methoxide level. Hi Paul Covered most of this already - see: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=26692list=BIOFUEL Best Keith Thanks Keith, must have missed that one. My computer/connection is not bringing up the page at the moment so will check it later. Regards Paul. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: research: water hyacinth
To Aileen Agatep - Original Message - From: Marcelino Miranda To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] World's First CO2-neutral Designer Diesel Fuel Presented Date: Monday, August 04, 2003 11:08 AM Friends, I've been reading on this and the product is not BD (biodiesel). The process is biomass to syn gas by high temperature gasification, and then to synthetic diesel, quite similar to petroleum diesel. Is similar to the coal to oil process of giant Sasol, the South African producer of synthetic petroleum, in this case from coal, via syn gas and the Fisher Tropsch process. Marcelino - Original Message - From: Christopher Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 12:11 AM Subject: RE: [biofuels-biz] World's First CO2-neutral Designer Diesel Fuel Presented Sounds like Bio-d to me. Christopher =-Original Message- =From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 5:41 AM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com =Subject: [biofuels-biz] World's First CO2-neutral Designer Diesel Fuel =Presented = = =Huh??? Um... = = =http://www.h2cars.biz/artman/publish/article_197.shtml = =World's First CO2-neutral Designer Diesel Fuel Presented = =By Poul Erik Bak based on material from DaimlerChrysler =Jun 30, 2003, 18:21 = =The new biofuel, which DaimlerChrysler has named Biotrol, can be =added without any difficulty to current fuels and may become =important in the fuel-portfolio to combat emissions and =oil-dependence. = =At the Environmental Press Conference held in Stuttgart, =DaimlerChrysler AG presented the world's first synthetic diesel fuel, =which does not affect the CO2 atmospheric balance in the atmosphere =during driving. This fuel is produced by the complete utilization of =organic substances. The carbon dioxide originating in the engine on =combustion is taken from the air as plants grow. = =This eliminates the additional entry of carbon dioxide into the =atmosphere by fuel produced from petroleum during driving, a =situation which has existed since the time cars were first =introduced. Accordingly, the Group assigns high significance to the =production of the biofuel: Professor Jrgen Hubbert Member of the =Board of Management of DaimlerChrysler AG responsible for the =Mercedes Car Group: We are at the start of a promising development. = =According to Dr. Weber, deputy Member of the Board of Management of =DaimlerChrysler AG with responsibility for Research and Technology, =the fuel is the cleanest and most environmentally friendly diesel =ever. It is produced in a research project supported by the Federal =Ministry for Economics and Labor jointly with the Choren company in =Freiberg in Saxony, where Choren has facilities for converting the =biomass from wood residue into fuel. This is the first system of its =type in the world. Volkswagen also joined the research project in the =fall of last year. = =The new biofuel, which DaimlerChrysler has christened with the name =of Biotrol, can be added without any difficulty to current fuels. =The research work is currently in the beginning stage of clarifying =if Biotrol can be used as an exclusive fuel, or whether engine =modifications are necessary. The research also involves economic =viability calculations, questions on sustained production and matters =of the overall impact on the production of energy. = =Since the fuel can be easily added to existing diesel fuel, there is =a reduction in new CO2 emission from new vehicles in existing fleets =as well as a potential for reduction in new CO2 emissions from all =diesel vehicles, depending on the mixture ratio once the fuel is =available. = =In the view of the company, from today's perspective in the next =decade a considerable share of EU diesel consumption could be covered =with biofuels. = =Dr. Thomas Weber has offered to cooperate with the mineral oil =industry. Political circles in Berlin and Brussels have encouraged =Weber to support the further development with clever decision =making, in particular differentiating in environmental discussions =between CO2 emissions from bio and fossil sources. = =According to the company, the production costs for Biotrol, which are =currently at EUR 0.7 per liter, are still two to three times that of =conventional fuels. With the further development of production =techniques and optimized distribution, DaimlerChrysler expects that =costs will continue to decline. Since bio fuels have been exempted =from gasoline tax since last year, Biotrol can be offered at =competitive prices even today. = =At the opening of the first fuel pump, Professor Herbert Kohler, the =Group's Chief Environmental Officer and Research Director, said: The =new bio fuel, a colorless, clear liquid, is fundamentally different =from all other fuels made from biomatter. =
Re: [biofuel] Alaska is melting
A gradual horizontal shift in a magnetic pole is not the same, nor are the atmospheric repercussions the same, as an axial polar shift. And there appears to be some considerable difference between present day warming speed and warming trends of historical past. This is important to note from the perspective of species migration. Species that aren't permitted the courtesy of migration in geologic time won't survive. Many flora and fauna don't have the luxury of picking up stakes and moving to higher ground or cooler climates in a fortnight. Simply resting on the laurels of all this has happened before or securing one's self in the comfort of sheer speculation does little to address reality. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Brent S [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alaska is melting I have heard about the polar shift, but have no real data from prehistory to go by, only speculation. I have heard a report that stated that the magnetic pole is moving towards Russia, which would put Canada into a warmer climate. One question, is Russia experiencing a cooling off and freezing of the polar region to coincide with this shift? If the polar regoin in Russia is melting as well, then the polar shift theory falls apart. I have also heard a report saying that the sun is on a cycle of increased activity which is sending more heat our way. This cycle is going to peak in about 40 years, then start cooling again. Brent From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alaska is melting Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 19:22:10 -0500 Your premise is based upon no net polar shifts throughout history. It starts to fall apart in the face of them. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Brent S [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alaska is melting Sea level is the highest it's ever been and climate is about as warm as it's ever been, Bindschadler said. We're really moving into uncharted territory. Warmest the planet has been? I live where an ocean used to be and near huge deposits of dinosaur fossils. It was alot warmer at one time to support the type of life that once excisted here. The oceans are less salty than they used to be too, to indicate more water now. There is alot of conflicting evidence out there. How can there be more heat and less water then and more water and less heat now? The ice caps may be melting, but we still get a few weeks of -40 deg every winter. Brent _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Methanol in East Anglia?
Methanol in East Anglia? Please cc. any replies to biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Thanks Keith To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com From: martin.brook [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:15:06 +0100 Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: biofuels Hi Kieth, I was wondering if you could post a note on the Biofuel forum for anbody who knows where to get methanol in the Cambridge area or East Anglia, thnkyou very much best regards Martin Brook. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Alaska is melting
Sea level is the highest it's ever been and climate is about as warm as it's ever been, Bindschadler said. We're really moving into uncharted territory. Warmest the planet has been? I live where an ocean used to be and near huge deposits of dinosaur fossils. It was alot warmer at one time to support the type of life that once excisted here. The oceans are less salty than they used to be too, to indicate more water now. There is alot of conflicting evidence out there. How can there be more heat and less water then and more water and less heat now? The ice caps may be melting, but we still get a few weeks of -40 deg every winter. Brent I've heard the Earth was once a molten rock and at one time covered with water. I've also heard of continental drift. Maybe paleontology* can provide some relationship while contemplating. * The study of the forms of life existing in prehistoric or geologic times, as represented by the fossils of plants, animals, and other organisms. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=paleontologydb=* I have heard about the polar shift, but have no real data from prehistory to go by, only speculation. Brent ~~ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited
murdoch wrote: I guess my view is this. While I empathize with some of the basics of Robert's post, I'm not sure that it's entirely true that we in the U.S. have been able to get away with ignoring all important Trade decisions. Surely, I could be wrong. Talk to the forest workers in British Columbia about the softwood lumber trade dispute, and you'll hear diatribes from unemployed families about how the U.S. ignores its trade agreements. We've really become a stink in the nostrils of some folk who live in the interior of British Columbia over the softwood lumber situation. But since we have put ourselves in a spot where we really need trade to continue, can it really be true that we always get away with ignoring all important WTO rulings against us? We have the economic power to do a LOT of whatever it is we want. The current administration, in particular, seems bent on abrogating the conditions of previous treaties. Sometimes Im surprised when I read of these disputes in the news, because it looks as though we're actually having to take seriously the decisions of the WTO, particularly when there's something that we ourselves want. America maintains a double standard when it comes to implementing trade agreements. We Americans like to talk about free trade, so long as our overseas competitors cannot mount an effective challenge to our dominance. We've erected barriers to the free trade of steel, for instance, because we cannot compete against Brasil and other emerging nations that make quality steel at a cheaper price, and this kind of double standard becomes very obvious for the people who live in those nations. I've now lived in Canada for over ten years, and I've learned some painful lessons about the way we Americans behave toward the rest of the world. While it's true that not all of us maintain an obnoxious, duplicitous attitude, it seems that many Americans who are in positions to make decisions concerning our conduct toward the rest of the world believe that what the rest of the world thinks is irrelevant. This extends to the U.S. position on greenhouse gas emissions. We dismiss the principle that developing nations MUST emit a growing percentage in order to grow their economies, stating that this is grossly unfair to the United States. What we fail to account for in this attitude is that we are among the largest greenhouse gas emitters on the planet, and further, that we're in a much better financial position to invest in technologies that are carbon neutral than say, the people of India or Venezuela. So, our government complains that the causal link between carbon dioxide emissions and warming cannot be established without further study, so we effectively delay any action on the anthropogenic link between warming and greenhouse gas emissions in order to protect the U.S. economy. I think there must be times when we take at least a shot in the arm over this or that matter. We generally respond with righteous indignation to such things. Then, with God on our side, we park an aircraft carrier group off the coast to demonstrate our resolve, and everyone prays that cooler heads will prevail. . . When there's something we want, and where we have much to sell... to folks who have the leverage of tarrifs and bans, then maybe we can be pressured. Isn't this one of the motivations behind the European Union? Perhaps some of you in Europe might comment on this. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited
I guess my view is this. While I empathize with some of the basics of Robert's post, I'm not sure that it's entirely true that we in the U.S. have been able to get away with ignoring all important Trade decisions. Surely, I could be wrong. Talk to the forest workers in British Columbia about the softwood lumber trade dispute, and you'll hear diatribes from unemployed families about how the U.S. ignores its trade agreements. We've really become a stink in the nostrils of some folk who live in the interior of British Columbia over the softwood lumber situation. The wheels of justice grind very slowly as to these trade disputes. Has this finally been settled, or are there to be more chapters in the story? Even if the U.S. has stonewalled things for years, hopefully a fair ruling can ultimately be enforced. Sometimes Im surprised when I read of these disputes in the news, because it looks as though we're actually having to take seriously the decisions of the WTO, particularly when there's something that we ourselves want. America maintains a double standard when it comes to implementing trade agreements. We Americans like to talk about free trade, so long as our overseas competitors cannot mount an effective challenge to our dominance. We've erected barriers to the free trade of steel, for instance, because we cannot compete against Brasil and other emerging nations that make quality steel at a cheaper price, and this kind of double standard becomes very obvious for the people who live in those nations. But I think this is an example of a trade dispute that ultimately we will lose. The protectionist Steel laws enacted by Bush when he first came in were, it seemed to me, different and more brazenly an open violation of WTO agreements. So, I wonder when the years-long-processes are finished, if they will stand. When there's something we want, and where we have much to sell... to folks who have the leverage of tarrifs and bans, then maybe we can be pressured. Isn't this one of the motivations behind the European Union? Perhaps some of you in Europe might comment on this. Yes, I'd like to learn more, particularly if there are any disputes the U.S. has lost, and how the mechanics of this worked. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited
murdoch wrote: The wheels of justice grind very slowly as to these trade disputes. Has this finally been settled, or are there to be more chapters in the story? Even if the U.S. has stonewalled things for years, hopefully a fair ruling can ultimately be enforced. In the meantime, the local industry has been decimated, families lose their livelihoods and competition is stifled. In the meantime, producers in the U.S. benefit from unlimited access to the American market preserved by the imposed trade barrier, while their international competitors go out of business. Then, we hear American politicians talk about the global benefits of free trade--it's sheer hypocrisy. But I think this is an example of a trade dispute that ultimately we will lose. The protectionist Steel laws enacted by Bush when he first came in were, it seemed to me, different and more brazenly an open violation of WTO agreements. So, I wonder when the years-long-processes are finished, if they will stand. Right now, the WTO has ruled against our country concerning softwood lumber--yet the trade barriers remain. Politicians in Canada hope to use the trade ruling to negotiate a settlement with the United States. But how can Canada force the U. S. to live up to the terms it has previously agreed to uphold? It's ludicrous to think that other nations have any effective means of imposing their will to the same degree that is true of the United States. Someone is probably thinking that I'm bashing my own country right now. . . We don't like to hear that our conduct can be reprehensible. We don't view ourselves as anything other than benevolent. We're very naive that way. . . Yes, I'd like to learn more, particularly if there are any disputes the U.S. has lost, and how the mechanics of this worked. This would be beneficial, I think. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Connecting the Wildfire Issue and the Biofuel Issue
What you're suggesting seems to be that in order to avoid all that grief for those persons foolish enough to build in places prone to the occasional forest fire that the national government should comit to a massive road building campaign to the uppermost reaches of the headwaters of every watershed across the land, all so a national thinning project can take place. No. I may have put my ideas incorrectly, and it is a bit of a confusing topic, so let me clarify what I think about this, and what I'm suggesting. I have deleted the brunt of what you wrote not out of disrespect but because I want to present simply and clearly because I think there's some confusion here. First, I think the conflagrations, however terrible, should be viewed not only as a threat to property and lives, but also as evidence, to those who might not recognize it, of the huge amount of energy incident up on the earth. In this case it's converted to biofuels. As to the folks who build in the wilderness and need their homes protected, I don't exactly have a tough shit attitude, but I don't advocate spending every effort to protect every inch of human structures. What I had in mind, as to specific suggestions, was more of the modest-sized efforts I'd heard about in Oroville, CA (a local wood-material incinerator) and in Flagstaff, AZ (where their efforts caught my eye in part because they've partly succeeded in some remediation, they claim, and because their answers didn't seem simplistic but seemed to say that a combination and variety of remediation methods seemed to work best for them so far.) So, if we identify more localities where they're going to attempt some remediation anyway, then I think they could be encouraged to install some modestly-priced modest-sized wood-to-electricity facilities, even if only as a semi-temporary measure until they get their local forests back into a healthy balance. So, I think Im suggesting to some extent the opposite of the overly ambitious giganto-sized project covering virtually everything that you took me to be suggesting. Once the idea of wood-to-electricity is in place and somewhat more widespread, Id think that folks would want to sometimes expand it, such as if-when they find their electricity costs are out of control from other sources. At that point, you could evaluate if and to what extent you'd want to get into more exploitive use of forests. I admit this was part of my original idea... no reason not to cut down a few trees and use them, but I don't think I had in mind cutting down virtually all the forests of the world everywhere, just to encourage a bit more use of them, starting with localized remdiation that is going to have to happen anyway, with or without wood-to-electricity. One of the things I forgot to mention about Oroville is that much of the wood is of a type that isn't much good for building, and perhaps it was said it's not ideal for firewood. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited
n Mon, 04 Aug 2003 09:34:01 -0700, you wrote: murdoch wrote: The wheels of justice grind very slowly as to these trade disputes. Has this finally been settled, or are there to be more chapters in the story? Even if the U.S. has stonewalled things for years, hopefully a fair ruling can ultimately be enforced. In the meantime, the local industry has been decimated, families lose their livelihoods and competition is stifled. In the meantime, producers in the U.S. benefit from unlimited access to the American market preserved by the imposed trade barrier, while their international competitors go out of business. Then, we hear American politicians talk about the global benefits of free trade--it's sheer hypocrisy. Yes, that's a good point. I may bend over backwards to find examples where we lose ultimately, but we have been effectively getting favored treatment instead of fair treatment, and so in making so many allowances, I lose track of the damage. In addition to your own etemological complaint as to the abuse of the phrase free trade, I'd have to add that this particularly came up, to my ear, with Reagan, and that he hijacked the terms so that they weren't applied where I thought they were more applicable, which is domestically. Thus, for example, I have always viewed the drug war (and other black market enforcements) as a pretext for the abrogation of the rights of domestic free trade. There have been times when I have thought that, as to international issues, the U.S. might have a legit complaint about free trade, but as you point out, there have also been times where it seems the U.S. just ignores, law, stonewalling everything. But I can't help but think that with so much of our economy now inter-dependent with so many other countries, that there is leverage there for others. Not the same trade dispute, but I think that if OPEC quietly allows oil to continue above $32 per gallon, this is a prime point of some aspect of leverage, though to what end I'm not sure. But I think this is an example of a trade dispute that ultimately we will lose. The protectionist Steel laws enacted by Bush when he first came in were, it seemed to me, different and more brazenly an open violation of WTO agreements. So, I wonder when the years-long-processes are finished, if they will stand. Right now, the WTO has ruled against our country concerning softwood lumber--yet the trade barriers remain. Politicians in Canada hope to use the trade ruling to negotiate a settlement with the United States. But how can Canada force the U. S. to live up to the terms it has previously agreed to uphold? It's ludicrous to think that other nations have any effective means of imposing their will to the same degree that is true of the United States. Someone is probably thinking that I'm bashing my own country right now. . . We don't like to hear that our conduct can be reprehensible. We don't view ourselves as anything other than benevolent. We're very naive that way. . . Well, I don't know, you seem to have it in mind to see the U.S. behave honorably and fairly in important international legal matters, so I think I could see that as a patriotic desire. Yes, I'd like to learn more, particularly if there are any disputes the U.S. has lost, and how the mechanics of this worked. This would be beneficial, I think. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited
Hi Hoagy, MM and all Brief comment at the end... murdoch wrote: I guess my view is this. While I empathize with some of the basics of Robert's post, I'm not sure that it's entirely true that we in the U.S. have been able to get away with ignoring all important Trade decisions. Surely, I could be wrong. Talk to the forest workers in British Columbia about the softwood lumber trade dispute, and you'll hear diatribes from unemployed families about how the U.S. ignores its trade agreements. We've really become a stink in the nostrils of some folk who live in the interior of British Columbia over the softwood lumber situation. But since we have put ourselves in a spot where we really need trade to continue, can it really be true that we always get away with ignoring all important WTO rulings against us? We have the economic power to do a LOT of whatever it is we want. The current administration, in particular, seems bent on abrogating the conditions of previous treaties. Sometimes Im surprised when I read of these disputes in the news, because it looks as though we're actually having to take seriously the decisions of the WTO, particularly when there's something that we ourselves want. America maintains a double standard when it comes to implementing trade agreements. We Americans like to talk about free trade, so long as our overseas competitors cannot mount an effective challenge to our dominance. We've erected barriers to the free trade of steel, for instance, because we cannot compete against Brasil and other emerging nations that make quality steel at a cheaper price, and this kind of double standard becomes very obvious for the people who live in those nations. I've now lived in Canada for over ten years, and I've learned some painful lessons about the way we Americans behave toward the rest of the world. While it's true that not all of us maintain an obnoxious, duplicitous attitude, it seems that many Americans who are in positions to make decisions concerning our conduct toward the rest of the world believe that what the rest of the world thinks is irrelevant. This extends to the U.S. position on greenhouse gas emissions. We dismiss the principle that developing nations MUST emit a growing percentage in order to grow their economies, stating that this is grossly unfair to the United States. What we fail to account for in this attitude is that we are among the largest greenhouse gas emitters on the planet, and further, that we're in a much better financial position to invest in technologies that are carbon neutral than say, the people of India or Venezuela. So, our government complains that the causal link between carbon dioxide emissions and warming cannot be established without further study, so we effectively delay any action on the anthropogenic link between warming and greenhouse gas emissions in order to protect the U.S. economy. I think there must be times when we take at least a shot in the arm over this or that matter. We generally respond with righteous indignation to such things. Then, with God on our side, we park an aircraft carrier group off the coast to demonstrate our resolve, and everyone prays that cooler heads will prevail. . . When there's something we want, and where we have much to sell... to folks who have the leverage of tarrifs and bans, then maybe we can be pressured. Isn't this one of the motivations behind the European Union? Perhaps some of you in Europe might comment on this. The time might not be too far off when you'd have to start including Japan in that countervailing force, which would make some really interesting differences. Japan is bound to become (is becoming) more assertive internationally, despite the storms of domestic angst thus caused. The sooner they develop a real foreign policy the better, IMO, and I don't even care much whether it's a good policy or not, just as long as it's there rather than not there, and truly independent rather than merely supportive or unsupportive - neither a poodle nor a bulldog but an akita. This policy vacuum in the world from one of the top three economic powers is bizarre, and distorts a great deal. regards Keith robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send
Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited
murdoch wrote: Yes, that's a good point. I may bend over backwards to find examples where we lose ultimately, but we have been effectively getting favored treatment instead of fair treatment, and so in making so many allowances, I lose track of the damage. In the overwhelming wash of news we receive every day, it's easy to lose perspective. I think this is an important virtue of maintaining a free press. We, as citizens, have an obligation to remain educated and explore issues with other people--especially if our positions differ. In addition to your own etemological complaint as to the abuse of the phrase free trade, I'd have to add that this particularly came up, to my ear, with Reagan, and that he hijacked the terms so that they weren't applied where I thought they were more applicable, which is domestically. Thus, for example, I have always viewed the drug war (and other black market enforcements) as a pretext for the abrogation of the rights of domestic free trade. I'm not sure I'm following you on this. I do not advocate trade in illicit substances, and I don't think that's what you're trying to communicate either. Are you suggesting that Mr. Reagan used American drug enforcement as a means to deprive certain nations of their access to American markets? Sorry, but I'm confused by your statement. There have been times when I have thought that, as to international issues, the U.S. might have a legit complaint about free trade, but as you point out, there have also been times where it seems the U.S. just ignores, law, stonewalling everything. But I can't help but think that with so much of our economy now inter-dependent with so many other countries, that there is leverage there for others. Not the same trade dispute, but I think that if OPEC quietly allows oil to continue above $32 per gallon, this is a prime point of some aspect of leverage, though to what end I'm not sure. Interesting perspective. . . Over on sci.energy.hydrogen, a Canadian gentleman named Graham Cowan contends that western governments profit the most from oil and high prices because oil is a heavily taxed commodity. (He thinks this is the real reason nuclear power has not taken off in North America to the same extent that has been the case in France and Japan.) Here's a recent URL that he cited: http://www.opec.org/NewsInfo/WhoGetsWhat/2001.pdf So then, it's entirely possible that our support for oppressive regimes who tow the economic line for us serve a dual purpose. On one hand, they keep the economy moving forward by maintaining stable energy prices. On the other hand, they also serve as a vehicle to fill government coffers. I'm somewhat skeptical of this point of view, but it seems to underscore the problem of seriously moving forward with ready to use technology, as is the case with biofuels, because taxation becomes an uncertain matter for bureaucrats who have grown dependent on the revenue. Hence, the British government's crackdown on biodiesel use in England makes perfect sense. Well, I don't know, you seem to have it in mind to see the U.S. behave honorably and fairly in important international legal matters, so I think I could see that as a patriotic desire. As a guest in someone else's country, it is my patriotic duty to hold my government and its citizens to the highest level of conduct in dealing with foreigners. My vision for America and the reality of America are often sharply contrasted in this realm. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited
Keith Addison wrote: The time might not be too far off when you'd have to start including Japan in that countervailing force, which would make some really interesting differences. Japan is bound to become (is becoming) more assertive internationally, despite the storms of domestic angst thus caused. The sooner they develop a real foreign policy the better, IMO, and I don't even care much whether it's a good policy or not, just as long as it's there rather than not there, and truly independent rather than merely supportive or unsupportive - neither a poodle nor a bulldog but an akita. This policy vacuum in the world from one of the top three economic powers is bizarre, and distorts a great deal. regards Keith Perhaps your observations stem from the legacy of Douglas MacArthur, who for all his faults probably did a more brilliant job of transforming Japan into a peaceful, modern society than has been duplicated elsewhere. It seems that in this process, the Japanese people have turned their attention inward. However, isn't Japan a major contributor to development among emerging nations? Hasn't Japan been instrumental in helping China deal with its quality control issues? (For instance, the new compact fluorescent bulbs coming out of China are very well made!) Your remarks seem especially pertinent, given the economic power China has been flexing in recent years. Japan, however, is even more dependent on fossil fuel imports than is the United States. I drive a truck that is, except for its engine, a Mazda, and I'm very impressed with Japanese engineering--the machine is extremely reliable. Japanese creativity and engineering expertise can make an invaluable contribution to dealing with the world's energy issues. Since the need for such problem solving is particularly acute in Japan, I would anticipate some leadership from that part of the world. (Especially since so little seems to be happening over here. . .) robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited
In addition to your own etemological complaint as to the abuse of the phrase free trade, I'd have to add that this particularly came up, to my ear, with Reagan, and that he hijacked the terms so that they weren't applied where I thought they were more applicable, which is domestically. Thus, for example, I have always viewed the drug war (and other black market enforcements) as a pretext for the abrogation of the rights of domestic free trade. I'm not sure I'm following you on this. I do not advocate trade in illicit substances, and I don't think that's what you're trying to communicate either. Im saying that by making the trade in drugs illegal, rather than legal, they create a black market situation. Production and trade by voluntary consenting adults in drugs should arguably be legal (the only exception I can think of to make is that under some circumstances a drug could be used as a weapon, so I would probably make some distinctions as to which drugs should be under what rules). Most folks have never lived in a time when trade in drugs was legal, and they can't conceive that we should just allow and regulate these substances rather than banning them and using the laws a pretexts for imprisoning millions of people, expropriating their property, destroying their entrepeneurial business enterprises (i.e., their drug dealings) etc. I honestly hate drugs and don't use them, by the way, but what I am trying to point out is that anti-drug laws are arguably a restriction on domestic free trade, in my view. There are many products I dislike, and many behaviours I dislike, that are not illegal, nor do I try to make them so. Likewise for drug production and trade and use, I despise them, but do not try to advocate that they should be illegal, except for what I regard as restrictions that are already in place for other substances. For example, alcohol and tobacco are highly restricted in terms of to whom one can sell them (no one under a certain age) and that could be guidance for Marijuana laws. Likewise, some drugs cannot be sold over the counter and perhaps the harder more addictive more dangerous drugs should be taken into that fold. Are you suggesting that Mr. Reagan used American drug enforcement as a means to deprive certain nations of their access to American markets? Sorry, but I'm confused by your statement. There have been times when I have thought that, as to international issues, the U.S. might have a legit complaint about free trade, but as you point out, there have also been times where it seems the U.S. just ignores, law, stonewalling everything. But I can't help but think that with so much of our economy now inter-dependent with so many other countries, that there is leverage there for others. Not the same trade dispute, but I think that if OPEC quietly allows oil to continue above $32 per gallon, this is a prime point of some aspect of leverage, though to what end I'm not sure. Interesting perspective. . . Over on sci.energy.hydrogen, a Canadian gentleman named Graham Cowan contends that western governments profit the most from oil and high prices because oil is a heavily taxed commodity. (He thinks this is the real reason nuclear power has not taken off in North America to the same extent that has been the case in France and Japan.) Here's a recent URL that he cited: http://www.opec.org/NewsInfo/WhoGetsWhat/2001.pdf So then, it's entirely possible that our support for oppressive regimes who tow the economic line for us serve a dual purpose. On one hand, they keep the economy moving forward by maintaining stable energy prices. On the other hand, they also serve as a vehicle to fill government coffers. I'm somewhat skeptical of this point of view, but it seems to underscore the problem of seriously moving forward with ready to use technology, as is the case with biofuels, because taxation becomes an uncertain matter for bureaucrats who have grown dependent on the revenue. Hence, the British government's crackdown on biodiesel use in England makes perfect sense. Robert Mills has been championing similar ideas in this biofuels group and in the evworld.com group, trying to point out that from the government's perspective, they are concerned as to where their funding comes from, so if alt-fuels are introduced in a way where tax revenues are sharply reduced, then we cannot expect eager consistent governmental suppport of those alt-fuel programs. An example would be where gasoline is heavily taxed, and someone wishes to advocate widespread testing and adoptation of Electric VEhicle use, but then until a mechanism is devised to tax the fuel or the cars, the governments may mysteriously not suppport their adoption. We can tie this in, to some extent, with the discussion of drug laws. As we all know, ethanol in the U.S. went from being legal to being illegal, to being legal but perhaps more taxed (in drug form) and
[biofuel] japan oil imports
Japan, however, is even more dependent on fossil fuel imports than is the United States. Biggest Oil importer in Asia, 2nd biggest in world. Virtually no production of its own. http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/security/topimp.html I also have hopes for Japan continuing to show a leadership role, in part because of the obvious real-world need that provides motivation. I like their increased Solar PV capacity. I dislike their have-their-cake-and-eat-it-too symptoms, such as where they have leadership in making hybrids and EVS, but then mysteriously curtail EV production for no good reason that makes sense to me and haven't made hybrids that can be grid-charged. They can economically take advantage of the huge lead they have forged over the geniuses in Detroit, and they don't have to continue to pursue the edge of the envelope and anger the powers-that-be overly much (I guess is what's going on,... it's hard to tell). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] ASTM Fuel
Hey All - just thought I would let you all know that I just received my results from the ASTM tests and we passed all categories. Just another good example of a homebrewer in a remote setting (Bahamas) making spec-grade biofuel! One other question: has anyone ever done any testing for using biodiesel in a jet engine? Jet fuel is so close to diesel fuel, I was wondering if anyone had done the research. Thanks. Jack Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited
Keith Addison wrote: The time might not be too far off when you'd have to start including Japan in that countervailing force, which would make some really interesting differences. Japan is bound to become (is becoming) more assertive internationally, despite the storms of domestic angst thus caused. The sooner they develop a real foreign policy the better, IMO, and I don't even care much whether it's a good policy or not, just as long as it's there rather than not there, and truly independent rather than merely supportive or unsupportive - neither a poodle nor a bulldog but an akita. This policy vacuum in the world from one of the top three economic powers is bizarre, and distorts a great deal. regards Keith Perhaps your observations stem from the legacy of Douglas MacArthur, who for all his faults probably did a more brilliant job of transforming Japan into a peaceful, modern society than has been duplicated elsewhere. It seems that in this process, the Japanese people have turned their attention inward. It's a long story Robert, along with MacArthur you have to go back to Commodore Perry and the Meiji Restoration - both what it was and what it wasn't, and perhaps should have been. Plus the Western World's perceptions of the stunning Japanese victory over Russia, the beginnings of protectionist measures against Japan that soon denied Japan access to resources in her backyard, SE Asia, still then under the sway of western colonialism... this was the essential precursor to World War 2. And much more besides, and since. However, isn't Japan a major contributor to development among emerging nations? Who benefits and at whose expense? Along with the other OECD countries, Japan is a major beneficiary, and the emerging nations (emerging from what?) generally the losers in a very unfair game - it's essentially an exploitative relationship, and Japan and its corporations don't differ more the West in this. In style somewhat maybe but not in effect. Hasn't Japan been instrumental in helping China deal with its quality control issues? (For instance, the new compact fluorescent bulbs coming out of China are very well made!) A great deal of subcontracting and also direct manufacturing has been transferred to China, yes, but again it's often a very exploitative arrangement - cheap wages attract, extremely cheap in many cases, along with really heavy-handed worker controls by China and a notable absence of workers' rights of any kind. Not always the case, but very often so. Your remarks seem especially pertinent, given the economic power China has been flexing in recent years. They would say so, yes. Japan, however, is even more dependent on fossil fuel imports than is the United States. Much more. I drive a truck that is, except for its engine, a Mazda, and I'm very impressed with Japanese engineering--the machine is extremely reliable. Japanese creativity and engineering expertise can make an invaluable contribution to dealing with the world's energy issues. Since the need for such problem solving is particularly acute in Japan, I would anticipate some leadership from that part of the world. (Especially since so little seems to be happening over here. . .) Yes... They know it all already - eg, Japanese hold many of the best biodiesel patents. Do an archives search, you'll be really interested. But - it doesn't get applied, or not yet: nothing much happens. There are lobbies, you see, and no real policy, just influence. It's changing though. See this one, for instance: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=19391list=BIOFUEL I've no doubt that when they start moving they'll be extremely effective. Best Keith robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Using pH to determine optimum methoxide level.
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Using pH to determine optimum methoxide level. Hi Paul Covered most of this already - see: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=26692list=BIOFUEL Best Keith Thanks Keith, must have missed that one. My computer/connection is not bringing up the page at the moment so will check it later. Archives was down for a while, storm damage upline somewhare, Martin said. But it's working again now. Best Keith Regards Paul. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ASTM Fuel
- Original Message - From: Jack Kenworthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 5:30 AM Subject: [biofuel] ASTM Fuel Hey All - just thought I would let you all know that I just received my results from the ASTM tests and we passed all categories. Just another good example of a homebrewer in a remote setting (Bahamas) making spec-grade biofuel! snip Congratulations Jack, any particular areas you had to concentrate on to get the BD to ASTM spec? Large excess of methanol, prolonged agitation, extended settling time, thorough washing? Regards, Paul Gobert. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ASTM Fuel
That's GREAT news!!! Well done! Multiple :-) 's! Jack, remind me please - which process are you using? And what are your plans now you've made the grade? Jet engines... rings a vague bell, but I don't know. Interesting. All best Keith Hey All - just thought I would let you all know that I just received my results from the ASTM tests and we passed all categories. Just another good example of a homebrewer in a remote setting (Bahamas) making spec-grade biofuel! One other question: has anyone ever done any testing for using biodiesel in a jet engine? Jet fuel is so close to diesel fuel, I was wondering if anyone had done the research. Thanks. Jack Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ASTM Fuel
Capstone power generation turbines can run on biodiesel, so I assume that the mod for jet engines wouldn't be that difficult. http://www.microturbine.com/technology/specsheets.asp James Slayden On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Keith Addison wrote: That's GREAT news!!! Well done! Multiple :-) 's! Jack, remind me please - which process are you using? And what are your plans now you've made the grade? Jet engines... rings a vague bell, but I don't know. Interesting. All best Keith Hey All - just thought I would let you all know that I just received my results from the ASTM tests and we passed all categories. Just another good example of a homebrewer in a remote setting (Bahamas) making spec-grade biofuel! One other question: has anyone ever done any testing for using biodiesel in a jet engine? Jet fuel is so close to diesel fuel, I was wondering if anyone had done the research. Thanks. Jack Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Building a barrel stove hot water heater
When I read Fire and Water, by Art Sussman and Richard Frazier, on this web site (www.green-trust.org), I decided I had to build one of these things. It helped that I already had a barrel stove. The whole project started with an attempt to cut down a very large monthly electric bill, especially in the winter. This approach appealed to me because it was lo-tech, simple and relatively inexpensive. I used the information contained in the article as a guide and built the barrel stove hot water heater described below. I am pleased to say that it works as advertised. So far the cost for the system, as illustrated in Figure 1, is less than $200.00. I expect to save at least $50.00 per month by operating it every 2nd or 3rd day for hot water in the summer. In the winter it will run continuously when I expect to save more than $200.00 per month for heat and hot water. Not counting my labor and research, that's a pretty good investment. read the rest at http://webconx.green-trust.org/2003/fireandwater2.htm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Distillery Fire
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=519ncid=718e=9u=/ap/20030804/ap_on_re_us/distillery_fire Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Aleks 2 stage biodiesel process --- temp mixing questions...
In the Foolproof two-stage process, the first Stage, step 4, indicates to heat the WVO to 95F. Why is it necessary to let the WVO/methanol/H2SO4 mix at that temperature for only one hour while the recipe calls for a second hour or recommend unheated stirring? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Aleks 2 stage biodiesel process --- base stage reaction temperature
Why is it is necessary to turn off the heat before adding the first half of the sodium methoxide, especially since it is recommended that the WVO be up to 130F before adding the rest of the sodium methoxide? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Aleks 2 stage biodiesel process --- temperature vs. mix time
Is the 130F temperature a requirement for Second Stage, step 13 and beyond? I'm interested to know if instead of raising the temperature to that level (difficult with my system), I could stir the mix for a longer period of time with similar results. Bottom line: is there a time vs. temperature reaction table that describes the reaction rate at different temps? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Aleks 2 stage biodiesel process --- catalyst
Have there been any comparisons done between NaOH and KOH as the catalyst? I am interested in using KOH with the two-stage process because it is supposedly more agriculturally friendly when disposing of byproducts. The recipe calls for 3.1-3.5g of NaOH per liter --- what would the equivalent amount of KOH be? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited
murdoch wrote: The wheels of justice grind very slowly as to these trade disputes. Has this finally been settled, or are there to be more chapters in the story? Even if the U.S. has stonewalled things for years, hopefully a fair ruling can ultimately be enforced. In the meantime, the local industry has been decimated, families lose their livelihoods and competition is stifled. In the meantime, producers in the U.S. benefit from unlimited access to the American market preserved by the imposed trade barrier, while their international competitors go out of business. Then, we hear American politicians talk about the global benefits of free trade--it's sheer hypocrisy. But I think this is an example of a trade dispute that ultimately we will lose. The protectionist Steel laws enacted by Bush when he first came in were, it seemed to me, different and more brazenly an open violation of WTO agreements. So, I wonder when the years-long-processes are finished, if they will stand. US did lose the illegal steel laws dispute in WTO against EU and this opens up a large range of legal tariffs against US from EU. EU suggested around 1,000 of them and can now implement it. US have brought the issues further, but I think that EU legally can implement the tariffs now and that it could be a beginning of some very big threats to free trade. Bush is showing a blatant disrespect for agreements and it will take many years to repair after he is gone. My guess is that EU now got the green light from WTO and will implement the tariffs. Right now, the WTO has ruled against our country concerning softwood lumber--yet the trade barriers remain. Politicians in Canada hope to use the trade ruling to negotiate a settlement with the United States. But how can Canada force the U. S. to live up to the terms it has previously agreed to uphold? It's ludicrous to think that other nations have any effective means of imposing their will to the same degree that is true of the United States. I hope that we will see US forced to live up to more agreements. It might be that US is the only military superpower left, but economically it is weakening in several ways. I also think that Canada can put limitation quotas on Natural gas deliveries, as long as US continue with the softwood lumber breach. Canada is not in a weak position and the strong US position starts to be an illusion. Someone is probably thinking that I'm bashing my own country right now. . . We don't like to hear that our conduct can be reprehensible. We don't view ourselves as anything other than benevolent. We're very naive that way. . . Yes, I'd like to learn more, particularly if there are any disputes the U.S. has lost, and how the mechanics of this worked. This would be beneficial, I think. Bush have started on this road and it is a lot of things lost. It will be interesting to see in the next coming years and could turn out to be quite nasty. The new and extremely arrogant international attitude that Bush started, is already backfiring. There are things that will take time to evolve and it could be severe damages of relationships between everybody involved. It is very dangerous. Hakan robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
