Re: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: Re: [Burnveggies] New German biodiesel standard
Good. Free copy of DIN EN 14214 found and translated by AltaVista Babelfish from http://members.dokom.net/torsten.kiebert/html/dinen14214.html As well as iodine number (which is a proxy for degree of unsaturation), there are also limits for the percentage of linoleate ester and for esters of fatty acids with more than 3 double bonds. This seems to encompass 3 ways of saying the same thing, and smacks of bad law. I know this is not the case as the standard has been hammered out by a range of interested and knowledgeable parties. Committee compromise? David T. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] quality control problems at Imperial Western Products
Fwd from the California list. From: girl Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Burnveggies] quality control problems at Imperial Western Products Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:33:56 -0800 (PST) Hi all, I've reposted Kris's report on his fuel filter clogging and fuel system problem below. I've got some info on this following his post (and unfortunately someone passed off Kris' dead filter to me last week, and it is GROSS. It's covered with thick waxy brown goo): from Kris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:37:58 -0800 I just had my truck shutdown because of a clogged fuel filter. I do not know if it is an accumulative problem or the case of some bad fuel. But it is a bit suspect because it happened just after I got a new batch of fuel from a new supplier. I do not want to point at anyone yet because I am still not sure if it was caused by this new fuel or from all of my biodiesel usage over time. So if you care here is the story: I have a 2003 Dodge ram 2500 diesel. I bought it new about a year ago and have put on 25,000 miles. I have ran B100 from the day I drove it off the lot. I have probably ran about 80% B100 since new. I changed the fuel filter at about 15,000 miles even though it didn't need it. Dodge recommends every 25,00 miles. So this new filter clogged in 10,000 miles. And I knew it was clogged because it left me limping home on the freeway at 30 mph on my way home from a Halloween party wearing a hula skirt and a coconut top, (and I'm a fat white guy) quite an ugly scene! So needless to say I was not happy with this situation. I got it back from the dodge dealership along with a written warning from Chrysler about the use of biodiesel. I had them save the filter for me and it is coated in nasty brown sludge. I bought a spare filter to go so I don't get left hanging again. This is the fuel part: I have been running B100 that I have been purchasing from Yokayo and Golden Gate in Martinez. Which I have heard they are both getting it from the same source (I don't know for sure). And I bought 120 gallons from the boulder biodiesel co-op a few months ago on the road. I have never ran home made fuel! All fuel I have ran has been commercially purchased. So I picked up a load of fuel at Naft Gas a week ago Sunday (I don't know where they are getting fuel these days). I had dinoD in it when I fueled up so for a week I was running about B30 of the new fuel. Then last Friday afternoon I topped off the tank with B100 so I was probably at about B95 in the tank. I put on about 50 miles that day and then it clogged up on the way home. I don't know if it is the new fuel or not? It may just be a general biodiesel issue to be aware of. But It clogged more than twice as fast as it should according to Dodge. I still have about 70 gallons of this fuel. It does not look gelled, It has got a bit chilly the last few nights but not that bad. I never had fuel gel here last winter That's my two cents. Sorry this was a bit long but details are important. Kris *** Mark's reply: I've been hearing since early summer that there have been quality control problems at Imperial Western Products ( they are the only california commercial producer of biodiesel, and are the (now former) supplier for Yokayo, probably the current supplier for Golden Gate Petroleum, and through Golden Gate, the City of Berkeley's fleet). Earlier in the summer, people had noticed cloudy fuel and Dr. Randall Von Weidel got some of this fuel and had it tested somewhere. I found this out because the Berkeley Biodiesel Coop got offered a large donation of this poor quality fuel from some other buyer, and we turned it down. It was cloudy- biodiesel shoudl never be cloudy- and there were some other problems with it (water- most probably due to poor storage and handling by whomever gave it to us) In the process I found out that Randall had a sample of the stuff and he'd had it tested. It turned out to contain a high level of 'triglycerides' (I don' tremember that there's a test specifically for triglycerides but what that means is that there's unconverted oil in the biodiesel, a big no-no for fuel systems.) Usually in a lab you test biodiesel for 'total and free glyceride content'. 'Free glycerol' is the stuff someone didn't wash out, and 'total Glycerol' is free glycerine plus monoglycerides and diglycerides.). These are tests that anyone can have done at Williams Lab for $80. Now, this isn't the first time there've been quality control problems with a commercial producer- World Energy had a problem in late spring with shipping out a bunch of fuel to the Northwest which contained large amounts of actual free glycerine (see thread in Biodieselnow.com forums entitled 'beware of bad biodiesel'). Free glycerine takes some VERY poor quality control and someone at World Energy's suppliers was probably REALLY cutting corners in order for this to have happened. That's
[biofuels-biz] quality control problems at Imperial Western Products Western States Oil Sources June '03
In June I emailed Western States Oil inquiring who supplies their B100. Bob replied that they get their bio from Biodiesel Industries in Las Vegas. But some of it comes from IWP in southern Cal. We require each load tested and specs. provided at delivery. Sally Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: quality control problems at Imperial Western Products
Quite ironic to see this here in light of the recent thread on quality and small producers. By the way IWP is connected withBeker Commodities I believe. mark --- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fwd from the California list. . Subject: [Burnveggies] quality control problems at Imperial Western Products Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Fwd: quality control problems at Imperial Western Products
From: girl Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Burnveggies] quality etc Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:05:55 -0800 (PST) Message: 6 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:45:21 -0800 From: craigreece [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com, burnveggies List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Burnveggies] Re: [biofuel] quality control problems at Imperial Western Products It seems to me that's impossible to determine which load of biodiesel caused the waxy brown goo - the last fill-up he reports is from Naft Gas in Fairfax, before that, hard to say in what chronological order, he got fuel from: Yokayo, Golden Gate in Martinez and the Boulder Biodiesel Co-Op. So how can anyone be sure that it's a quality control issue at Imperial Western? What am I missing here? Craig 1. Imperial's fuel got independently tested by two different people via a reputable industry laboratory and was found to contain glycerides, which are according the to the Fuel Injection Manufacturers report on biodiesel quality, likely to cause the exact problem Kris described 2. Golden Gate and Yokayo (and probaly Naft) all supplied fuel from Imperial 3. Boulder Biodiesel supplies fuel made by West Central in Iowa (remarketed by Blue Sun I believe). This is light colored new soy biodiesel, whereas IWP's is very dark colored recycled content biodiesel. Even if there was a quality problem with this soy fuel the substance on the filter probably would not have looked dark dark brown in a newish vehicle with no history of petrodiesel use 4. The substance on the filter looks like the type of feedstock that IWP probably uses- ie it's solid at room temp and particularly nasty as far as oils go. I guess this is what IWP's feedstock looks like because biodiesel that dark and red is usually made from very heavily used oils. Not that the problem is unique to recycled content- it's handling and processing that probably caused it (some theories exist as to how these things happen even though IWP sent out a batch analysis with every shipment to their distributors). Also monoglycerides/diglycerides (what's in my opinion most ikely to have been found on the tests) resemble their parent feedstock (ie oil) in properties- ie monoglycerol stearate is aparently the SOLID-at-room-temperature floaty crap that results from stearic fatty acids in animal fats for biodiesel and not processing properly, etc. 5. Others in this area also have reported problems with Naft's fuel. This is in the rumor category for me but one of the Marinbiodiesel list members whom I know was getting pretty upset whatever he'd heard from others, right before Kris had his problem. 5. Naft's fuel has looked cloudy which should never be the case. The source of cloudiness (without knowing further what exactly causes it) could be IWP, Biodiesel Industries/Western States, or storage problems. Mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: quality control problems at Imperial Western Products
Hi Mark Also quite timely. Best Keith Quite ironic to see this here in light of the recent thread on quality and small producers. By the way IWP is connected withBeker Commodities I believe. mark --- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fwd from the California list. . Subject: [Burnveggies] quality control problems at Imperial Western Products Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] anybody in Sarasota??
vronp wrote: Hi All, Just wondering if anybody on the list is in the Sarasota Florida area. I'm a newbie that is interested in building my own processor. I live on Siesta Key and I'd like to hook up with others in this area that are making biodiesel. I'd really like to look at a processor in person before I start construction. I'm not in Sarasota, but I am not too far north of you in St. Petersburg. I've gotten into SVO/WVO lately, and haven't made any biodiesel in years. I don't know what kind of help I could be to you, but I'll help however I can. The closest thing I built to a processor was a 5 gallon bucket with a lid, a drill press, and a paint stirrer. It was cheap, but it made biodiesel. I used Aleks' 2 stage base/base method, and washed a lot. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] immersion heaters
Rodney Hadley wrote: I have started to make a processor out of a hot water heater, and my thoughts are that I will have to remove the existing heating elements due to them being submerged in oil. No, that won't be necessary. They'll probably be fine. Just take your 220v elements and feed them 110v and you won't have any problems with the elements overheating. I'm pretty sure that the combination of the heating element and the oil will end in a fire. Is this correct? Well, yes and no. The combination of heating element, oil, and _air_ will end in fire. If you take the air out of the equasion, I.E. by keeping your element submerged, then you won't have a problem. I have heard of many people using immersion heaters, what type will be best for heating oil? The one that will fit into your processor. The physically larger the better. About the best thing you can do is use the largest 220v element that will fit into the hole, and feed it 110v. Are the immersion heaters used for biodiesel submerged in oil? Yes. I need it to dry my fuel, and recover the methanol. It will do all of the above. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: immersion heaters
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Alan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rodney Hadley wrote: I have started to make a processor out of a hot water heater, and my thoughts are that I will have to remove the existing heating elements due to them being submerged in oil. No, that won't be necessary. They'll probably be fine. Just take your 220v elements and feed them 110v and you won't have any problems with the elements overheating. Absolutley spot on, but make a rough extimate of the elements area of contact with the oil (length*pi*radius squared) and make sure the output will be around or less than 3W/sq cm, this will ensure no burning of the oil whilst heating. Elsewise you will need to stir while heating. I'm pretty sure that the combination of the heating element and the oil will end in a fire. Is this correct? Well, yes and no. The combination of heating element, oil, and _air_ will end in fire. If you take the air out of the equasion, I.E. by keeping your element submerged, then you won't have a problem. I have heard of many people using immersion heaters, what type will be best for heating oil? The one that will fit into your processor. The physically larger the better. About the best thing you can do is use the largest 220v element that will fit into the hole, and feed it 110v. Did you mean to say existing heating elements? Are there two, then you should have no trouble. Use ohms law, Power = Current squared times resistance. The resistance will be the same on either voltage so it a simple calculation. Contact a specialist hot water / element manufacturer, and get a nice long element to fit. I did and they are wonderful (2 of) and they are feed in series on 240VAC to drop the power to the desired level. Always used fully submerged of course. regards, Matt Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] quality control problems at Imperial Western Products
Fwd from the California list. From: girl Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Burnveggies] quality control problems at Imperial Western Products Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:33:56 -0800 (PST) Hi all, I've reposted Kris's report on his fuel filter clogging and fuel system problem below. I've got some info on this following his post (and unfortunately someone passed off Kris' dead filter to me last week, and it is GROSS. It's covered with thick waxy brown goo): from Kris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:37:58 -0800 I just had my truck shutdown because of a clogged fuel filter. I do not know if it is an accumulative problem or the case of some bad fuel. But it is a bit suspect because it happened just after I got a new batch of fuel from a new supplier. I do not want to point at anyone yet because I am still not sure if it was caused by this new fuel or from all of my biodiesel usage over time. So if you care here is the story: I have a 2003 Dodge ram 2500 diesel. I bought it new about a year ago and have put on 25,000 miles. I have ran B100 from the day I drove it off the lot. I have probably ran about 80% B100 since new. I changed the fuel filter at about 15,000 miles even though it didn't need it. Dodge recommends every 25,00 miles. So this new filter clogged in 10,000 miles. And I knew it was clogged because it left me limping home on the freeway at 30 mph on my way home from a Halloween party wearing a hula skirt and a coconut top, (and I'm a fat white guy) quite an ugly scene! So needless to say I was not happy with this situation. I got it back from the dodge dealership along with a written warning from Chrysler about the use of biodiesel. I had them save the filter for me and it is coated in nasty brown sludge. I bought a spare filter to go so I don't get left hanging again. This is the fuel part: I have been running B100 that I have been purchasing from Yokayo and Golden Gate in Martinez. Which I have heard they are both getting it from the same source (I don't know for sure). And I bought 120 gallons from the boulder biodiesel co-op a few months ago on the road. I have never ran home made fuel! All fuel I have ran has been commercially purchased. So I picked up a load of fuel at Naft Gas a week ago Sunday (I don't know where they are getting fuel these days). I had dinoD in it when I fueled up so for a week I was running about B30 of the new fuel. Then last Friday afternoon I topped off the tank with B100 so I was probably at about B95 in the tank. I put on about 50 miles that day and then it clogged up on the way home. I don't know if it is the new fuel or not? It may just be a general biodiesel issue to be aware of. But It clogged more than twice as fast as it should according to Dodge. I still have about 70 gallons of this fuel. It does not look gelled, It has got a bit chilly the last few nights but not that bad. I never had fuel gel here last winter That's my two cents. Sorry this was a bit long but details are important. Kris *** Mark's reply: I've been hearing since early summer that there have been quality control problems at Imperial Western Products ( they are the only california commercial producer of biodiesel, and are the (now former) supplier for Yokayo, probably the current supplier for Golden Gate Petroleum, and through Golden Gate, the City of Berkeley's fleet). Earlier in the summer, people had noticed cloudy fuel and Dr. Randall Von Weidel got some of this fuel and had it tested somewhere. I found this out because the Berkeley Biodiesel Coop got offered a large donation of this poor quality fuel from some other buyer, and we turned it down. It was cloudy- biodiesel shoudl never be cloudy- and there were some other problems with it (water- most probably due to poor storage and handling by whomever gave it to us) In the process I found out that Randall had a sample of the stuff and he'd had it tested. It turned out to contain a high level of 'triglycerides' (I don' tremember that there's a test specifically for triglycerides but what that means is that there's unconverted oil in the biodiesel, a big no-no for fuel systems.) Usually in a lab you test biodiesel for 'total and free glyceride content'. 'Free glycerol' is the stuff someone didn't wash out, and 'total Glycerol' is free glycerine plus monoglycerides and diglycerides.). These are tests that anyone can have done at Williams Lab for $80. Now, this isn't the first time there've been quality control problems with a commercial producer- World Energy had a problem in late spring with shipping out a bunch of fuel to the Northwest which contained large amounts of actual free glycerine (see thread in Biodieselnow.com forums entitled 'beware of bad biodiesel'). Free glycerine takes some VERY poor quality control and someone at World Energy's suppliers was probably REALLY cutting corners in order for this to have happened. That's
[biofuel] Home brewers of WVO in Ga., SC., N FL
I would like to hook up with home brewers near me before I start. Lets talk and share info. I am near Statesboro, Georgia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] [Fwd: To Put It All In Perspective (Iraq, Afghanistan, crime, etc)]
Original Message To: Alan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The CyberPoet [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-UIDL: PJ'!!`$6!~]X!~$Q! Attached you can find the spreadsheet provided at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/dtdata.htm illustrating all the money spent (national, state, county and municipality) on crime prevention for the last 20 years (up to 1999). Compare these numbers to the money we spent in Iraq alone. Conclusion: Iraqi oil is more expensive than crime prevention in the USA. Excel workbook... -- Cheers =-= Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] quality control problems at Imperial Western Products
It seems to me that's impossible to determine which load of biodiesel caused the waxy brown goo - the last fill-up he reports is from Naft Gas in Fairfax, before that, hard to say in what chronological order, he got fuel from: Yokayo, Golden Gate in Martinez and the Boulder Biodiesel Co-Op. So how can anyone be sure that it's a quality control issue at Imperial Western? What am I missing here? Craig Keith Addison wrote: Fwd from the California list. From: girl Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Burnveggies] quality control problems at Imperial Western Products Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:33:56 -0800 (PST) Hi all, I've reposted Kris's report on his fuel filter clogging and fuel system problem below. I've got some info on this following his post (and unfortunately someone passed off Kris' dead filter to me last week, and it is GROSS. It's covered with thick waxy brown goo): from Kris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:37:58 -0800 I just had my truck shutdown because of a clogged fuel filter. I do not know if it is an accumulative problem or the case of some bad fuel. But it is a bit suspect because it happened just after I got a new batch of fuel from a new supplier. I do not want to point at anyone yet because I am still not sure if it was caused by this new fuel or from all of my biodiesel usage over time. So if you care here is the story: I have a 2003 Dodge ram 2500 diesel. I bought it new about a year ago and have put on 25,000 miles. I have ran B100 from the day I drove it off the lot. I have probably ran about 80% B100 since new. I changed the fuel filter at about 15,000 miles even though it didn't need it. Dodge recommends every 25,00 miles. So this new filter clogged in 10,000 miles. And I knew it was clogged because it left me limping home on the freeway at 30 mph on my way home from a Halloween party wearing a hula skirt and a coconut top, (and I'm a fat white guy) quite an ugly scene! So needless to say I was not happy with this situation. I got it back from the dodge dealership along with a written warning from Chrysler about the use of biodiesel. I had them save the filter for me and it is coated in nasty brown sludge. I bought a spare filter to go so I don't get left hanging again. This is the fuel part: I have been running B100 that I have been purchasing from Yokayo and Golden Gate in Martinez. Which I have heard they are both getting it from the same source (I don't know for sure). And I bought 120 gallons from the boulder biodiesel co-op a few months ago on the road. I have never ran home made fuel! All fuel I have ran has been commercially purchased. So I picked up a load of fuel at Naft Gas a week ago Sunday (I don't know where they are getting fuel these days). I had dinoD in it when I fueled up so for a week I was running about B30 of the new fuel. Then last Friday afternoon I topped off the tank with B100 so I was probably at about B95 in the tank. I put on about 50 miles that day and then it clogged up on the way home. I don't know if it is the new fuel or not? It may just be a general biodiesel issue to be aware of. But It clogged more than twice as fast as it should according to Dodge. I still have about 70 gallons of this fuel. It does not look gelled, It has got a bit chilly the last few nights but not that bad. I never had fuel gel here last winter That's my two cents. Sorry this was a bit long but details are important. Kris *** Mark's reply: I've been hearing since early summer that there have been quality control problems at Imperial Western Products ( they are the only california commercial producer of biodiesel, and are the (now former) supplier for Yokayo, probably the current supplier for Golden Gate Petroleum, and through Golden Gate, the City of Berkeley's fleet). Earlier in the summer, people had noticed cloudy fuel and Dr. Randall Von Weidel got some of this fuel and had it tested somewhere. I found this out because the Berkeley Biodiesel Coop got offered a large donation of this poor quality fuel from some other buyer, and we turned it down. It was cloudy- biodiesel shoudl never be cloudy- and there were some other problems with it (water- most probably due to poor storage and handling by whomever gave it to us) In the process I found out that Randall had a sample of the stuff and he'd had it tested. It turned out to contain a high level of 'triglycerides' (I don' tremember that there's a test specifically for triglycerides but what that means is that there's unconverted oil in the biodiesel, a big no-no for fuel systems.) Usually in a lab you test biodiesel for 'total and free glyceride content'. 'Free glycerol' is the stuff someone didn't wash out, and 'total Glycerol' is free glycerine plus monoglycerides and diglycerides.). These are tests that
[biofuel] green color
Hey folks, I was just perusing the archive slooking for some information on different fuel color characteristics tht are indicative of certain problems. I found a good deal of info, but not exactly what I am looking for. I have a batch that I just made, and after the final wash, it is clear, but it has a greenish tint to it. Hmmm. Perhaps an incomplete reaction? Contaminants in the fuel? I am trying to reprocess the fuel as virgin oil to see if it seperates out any more glyc - but wondering if anyone has any additional thoughts. Thanks. Also, Keith - thanks a lot for putting my project up on your site! I just noticed it the other day and I appreciate the support. Cheers. Jack Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Institute 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] green color
Jack, Your final fuel will maintain some of the color characteristics of the parent feedstock. If there was a green hue to the feedstock, there will be a green tint to the fuel. Hempseed oil is green. Hempseed biodiesel is also green, hence the tradename Kerogreen. Other oils have green tints to them. My guestimate is that this is where your coloring is coming from. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Jack Kenworthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 3:00 PM Subject: [biofuel] green color Hey folks, I was just perusing the archive slooking for some information on different fuel color characteristics tht are indicative of certain problems. I found a good deal of info, but not exactly what I am looking for. I have a batch that I just made, and after the final wash, it is clear, but it has a greenish tint to it. Hmmm. Perhaps an incomplete reaction? Contaminants in the fuel? I am trying to reprocess the fuel as virgin oil to see if it seperates out any more glyc - but wondering if anyone has any additional thoughts. Thanks. Also, Keith - thanks a lot for putting my project up on your site! I just noticed it the other day and I appreciate the support. Cheers. Jack Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Institute 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: quality control problems at Imperial Western Products
From: girl Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Burnveggies] quality etc Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:05:55 -0800 (PST) Message: 6 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:45:21 -0800 From: craigreece [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com, burnveggies List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Burnveggies] Re: [biofuel] quality control problems at Imperial Western Products It seems to me that's impossible to determine which load of biodiesel caused the waxy brown goo - the last fill-up he reports is from Naft Gas in Fairfax, before that, hard to say in what chronological order, he got fuel from: Yokayo, Golden Gate in Martinez and the Boulder Biodiesel Co-Op. So how can anyone be sure that it's a quality control issue at Imperial Western? What am I missing here? Craig 1. Imperial's fuel got independently tested by two different people via a reputable industry laboratory and was found to contain glycerides, which are according the to the Fuel Injection Manufacturers report on biodiesel quality, likely to cause the exact problem Kris described 2. Golden Gate and Yokayo (and probaly Naft) all supplied fuel from Imperial 3. Boulder Biodiesel supplies fuel made by West Central in Iowa (remarketed by Blue Sun I believe). This is light colored new soy biodiesel, whereas IWP's is very dark colored recycled content biodiesel. Even if there was a quality problem with this soy fuel the substance on the filter probably would not have looked dark dark brown in a newish vehicle with no history of petrodiesel use 4. The substance on the filter looks like the type of feedstock that IWP probably uses- ie it's solid at room temp and particularly nasty as far as oils go. I guess this is what IWP's feedstock looks like because biodiesel that dark and red is usually made from very heavily used oils. Not that the problem is unique to recycled content- it's handling and processing that probably caused it (some theories exist as to how these things happen even though IWP sent out a batch analysis with every shipment to their distributors). Also monoglycerides/diglycerides (what's in my opinion most ikely to have been found on the tests) resemble their parent feedstock (ie oil) in properties- ie monoglycerol stearate is aparently the SOLID-at-room-temperature floaty crap that results from stearic fatty acids in animal fats for biodiesel and not processing properly, etc. 5. Others in this area also have reported problems with Naft's fuel. This is in the rumor category for me but one of the Marinbiodiesel list members whom I know was getting pretty upset whatever he'd heard from others, right before Kris had his problem. 5. Naft's fuel has looked cloudy which should never be the case. The source of cloudiness (without knowing further what exactly causes it) could be IWP, Biodiesel Industries/Western States, or storage problems. Mark Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Long Beach EV show
1.Long Beach EV show You can really test drive EVs at the long Beach show. Alarmingly all the major Auto makers, GM, Fords, Honda, Toyota and Hyundai all were displaying their newest Hydrogen Full Cell cars! The only Hybrid will be gasoline/Electric Cars.Toyota may have a Diesel/Electric Hybrid Pick-up Nov. 2003 in Japan, probably will be available in US next year 2004? So the biofuel group can have an alternative! They must make these Hybrids with EV options, that you can actually charge the battery pack from renewable power sources! Driver can switch to Gasoline/Biofuel or pure electric when they want to! A few EVs at the show were from smaller companies which needs to find capital!! Unless Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars can have smart reformers small enough on board each vehicles, then we can use water as fuel. Otherwise we will have to go to Hydrogen Stations to buy Liquid Hydrogen fuel just like we are buying gasoline now. This is not a consumer market, that will be another sellers' market. The sellers like Oil and auto companies only supply the products they want us to drive or consume! Not that we really have a choice? Do we? Honda Salesman assured me that we can produce our own Hydrogen Fuel at home. When and how safe that will be? Before that happen, we will stil all be depending on the same energy companies for their fuel. 2.Zap New Electric Car ZapCar newest version, made in China! Passed all road tests and will have a special CA EXEMPT license plate to drive be able to drive on Car Pool Lines (even without passengers). Have the $4000 tax break and other incentives! Retail at $10,000 and they are looking for dealers. No inventory, have to order and delivery in 30 days after they import your unit from China. Only one color - silver gray so far! You can try to ask them for other colors. Maximum speed: 60-65MPH, Range per charge: Li-Cd about 80 miles Li-Mh About 240 miles Don't have data on the DC motor, this car is adpoting big capacitors to run the car's motor more efficiently! Air conditioner/CD player+ radio, all the basic equipments available! 2 doors, Windows, like a real good car! 110VAC charger, plug in any AC outlet. (Had asked them too add DC charger, solar module price had came down from 7-8/watt last year to 3-4/watt in 2003. The price is dropping, so very soon we should be able to have our own solar DC power to charge our EVs and for our own houses. You can store the energy that you generate from Solar to Electricty, Hydogen or compressed air) Contact: Mr. Steven M.Schneider(Chief Executive Officer), email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (I apolgize if anyone would consider this to be advertising for this company. That was not my intention, all above details you have to recheck with the company. I could not be 100% responsible for the accuracy, so please verify with them) 3.Refueling: 1)According to study, it takes average 7 minutes to fill up gas tank plus paying. And we could not find oil in our back yard and of course could not process it ourselves! 2)It will be faster if we could replace the low power battery with freshly charged battery pack, like in 4 minutes? they could be improved and not so bulky? A portable battery pack that we can get from any 7-11 stores? Or have a second pack for long distance drive? And we can produce electricity at home from our solar systems. Unlike some experts suggested that EV's have to get power from dirtier sources like burning more coal to generate more electricty! That is untrue! Any similar EV shows in other part of the world, would like to share info!! Good Luck! Tricia Liu Solar Systems Vendor [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: quality control problems at Imperial Western Products
Frankly? I'd like someone to paint the picture as to how such sludge could ever get past the most rudimentary of tests. Aside from sloppiness and/or forged test results the only other explanation is residual grunge coming from a storage tank that at one time or another stored incompletely reacted fuel. Someone should inform these commercial manufacturers that there are no corners that can be cut if the desired result is a product that end-users can depend upon. Maybe the EPA should make a new designation in the Table of Biodiesel Standards - ASTM D-6751. The heading on that line item should be Profit by the looks of what is getting past the shipping tank. Todd Swearingen 1. Imperial's fuel got independently tested by two different people via a reputable industry laboratory and was found to contain glycerides, which are according the to the Fuel Injection Manufacturers report on biodiesel quality, likely to cause the exact problem Kris described 2. Golden Gate and Yokayo (and probaly Naft) all supplied fuel from Imperial 3. Boulder Biodiesel supplies fuel made by West Central in Iowa (remarketed by Blue Sun I believe). This is light colored new soy biodiesel, whereas IWP's is very dark colored recycled content biodiesel. Even if there was a quality problem with this soy fuel the substance on the filter probably would not have looked dark dark brown in a newish vehicle with no history of petrodiesel use 4. The substance on the filter looks like the type of feedstock that IWP probably uses- ie it's solid at room temp and particularly nasty as far as oils go. I guess this is what IWP's feedstock looks like because biodiesel that dark and red is usually made from very heavily used oils. Not that the problem is unique to recycled content- it's handling and processing that probably caused it (some theories exist as to how these things happen even though IWP sent out a batch analysis with every shipment to their distributors). Also monoglycerides/diglycerides (what's in my opinion most ikely to have been found on the tests) resemble their parent feedstock (ie oil) in properties- ie monoglycerol stearate is aparently the SOLID-at-room-temperature floaty crap that results from stearic fatty acids in animal fats for biodiesel and not processing properly, etc. 5. Others in this area also have reported problems with Naft's fuel. This is in the rumor category for me but one of the Marinbiodiesel list members whom I know was getting pretty upset whatever he'd heard from others, right before Kris had his problem. 5. Naft's fuel has looked cloudy which should never be the case. The source of cloudiness (without knowing further what exactly causes it) could be IWP, Biodiesel Industries/Western States, or storage problems. Mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
