Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea
Hi everyone, For those of you who are working on your process control for ethanol/methanol or biodiesel production, I was wondering about something. I hate to send anything to the land fill or scrap yard that I might be able to use later and I'm sure you feel the same way. This philosophy has caused me to become a bit of a pack rat (and dumpster diver). My basement is neatly organized with old (486 and P1) computers, motors, and other mechanical/electrical devices from dissected printers and other obsolete or broken down equipment. I was thinking of developing generic software (in C or assembler) for old computers to convert them into process controllers. For example, it might make an effective temperature controller for your still. If this works, I would take the programs and put them on a web page for download. If it's truly generic (compatible with all XX86 architecture), it will be a matter of copying the executable file to the hard drive of a computer, adding a line to the autoexec.bat file and making a harness (serial/parallel port to solid state relays and sensors). Has anyone tried this already and if so, can that person please share their experience with me and those interested in this thread? Thanks! Regards, Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea
A temperature controller that would not upset because of lightning or other power line disturbance and would not lose its settings with power supply failure may prove superior especially if less expensive. Thus a bimetal strip may prove best in the long run. I am in favor of data logging and alarms via computer but fool proof and ultra reliable control usually means no computer. Kirk --- Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, For those of you who are working on your process control for ethanol/methanol or biodiesel production, I was wondering about something. I hate to send anything to the land fill or scrap yard that I might be able to use later and I'm sure you feel the same way. This philosophy has caused me to become a bit of a pack rat (and dumpster diver). My basement is neatly organized with old (486 and P1) computers, motors, and other mechanical/electrical devices from dissected printers and other obsolete or broken down equipment. I was thinking of developing generic software (in C or assembler) for old computers to convert them into process controllers. For example, it might make an effective temperature controller for your still. If this works, I would take the programs and put them on a web page for download. If it's truly generic (compatible with all XX86 architecture), it will be a matter of copying the executable file to the hard drive of a computer, adding a line to the autoexec.bat file and making a harness (serial/parallel port to solid state relays and sensors). Has anyone tried this already and if so, can that person please share their experience with me and those interested in this thread? Thanks! Regards, Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- termites CH4
http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwarming.nsf/UniqueKeyLookup/SHSU5BUM9T/$File/ghg_gwp.pdf Nice discussion re most aspects. Since CH4 may be 50 times more effective than CO2 as a greenhouse gas it seems termite management might be useful. Kirk --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Rick Dear DB, I liked your response. Partly, I suppose, because it accords with my own thoughts. There is no doubt at this point that global warming is occurring even among some republicans. There's no doubt even among some republicans or it's occurring even among some republicans? The first, cause to rejoice (though that's been the case for awhile I think), if the second, depending who they are, if they're becoming prone to spontaneous combustion should we shed tears or consider them as an alternative energy source? (Sorry!) What drives it it the question. There are no shortage of non man made effects that could raise the global temperature. Methane produced by termite colonies world wide is more abundant than any man made green house gas. And it plays an important and complex role in the climate andd the upper atmosphere. The main problem with this sort of argument though, apart from the now-massive body of science that debunks it, is that the termites have not been working more and more overtime for the last 200 years to account for the rising temperatures. The lead contender for that, by a whole bunch of lengths, is CO2 produced by us. It seems apparent to me that what ever the cause the effect is not stoppable at this point. There is just no time left to turn the battleship before it hits the pier. How do you know that? A very premature conclusion, with little to support it that I know of. Again, at the Kyoto Protocol celebrations in Kyoto on Wednesday the speakers were talking of the need for 60-80% CO2 cuts, and these people were mostly being placatory, not provocative. Such figures have been making it into print more and more in the last couple of years. It was common parlance at the Climate Change conference in Nairobi in 1992, among those people I'd guess that 60-80% would now be seen as very conservative. So we (or some of us at least) blew it on precaution in favour of sheer greed, so now let's just accept that and give up trying to curb the damage we've done when we've hardly even begun? Is that what you're saying? Sod that. (Pardon me.) We're able to expend much greater efforts, resources and expertise on mitigation than anything that's been done so far. Mitigation is a major plank of the Kyoto Protocol which now comes into force. I really don't mean to be insulting, but I have to say that you sound a bit like former Commissioner of the US Patent Office Charles H. Duell, who said in 1899 that Everything that can be invented has been invented. This is perhaps the greatest challenge humanity has faced, we're ingenious little monkeys, I don't think you should gong us out before we're even in the ring. Would we not be better off at this point figuring out how to live in a warmer world than trying to stop a flood with a tea cup? Say you were already there so there wasn't a transport problem, how would you go about living on Venus? You and six billion others, plus the whole biosphere? Do you think that would less of a technological challenge than mitigating global warming at this stage on Earth? The Kyoto protocol has considerable economic consequences. Global warming has even more considerable economic consequences. The insurance industry calculated that global warming cost US$60 billion in 2003, going up fast. Is this the best use of the worlds resources to solve the problem? Do you know of a better one? Nobody closely involved with the Kyoto Protocol sees it as a final document, nor as perfect, just as a first step - it enables further steps. That's absolutely true - things are possible this week that were not possible last week. You'd need to assess all this very closely, and for some time to come, before you could safely draw conclusions as to whether or not it's the best use of the world's resources to solve the problem. The point is that it's the ONLY such use of the world's resources, it has international acceptance and force and it is happening now. What would you prefer? Another 13 years of talking about it? As it is, if better uses of resources emerge than are now envisaged, as no doubt they will, it's within the framework of the Kyoto Protocol that they'll be implemented. Would it not be better to determine the likely consequences of warming and figure out how best to deal with them? That's included in the Kyoto Protocol. Maybe you should go and study it. http://i-newswire.com/pr6144.html i-Newswire.com - Press Release And News Distribution - WORLDWIDE
Re: [Biofuel] affordable methanol in uk
Try Jennychem 016934 290770 Myke Bristol JD2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi; Is there anybody on this list who knows where to purchase methanol for a reasonable price in the uk, england? JD2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] SVI/B100 BLENDS
Hello everybody. It is not advisable to run directly injected diesel engines on non-transesterified vegetable or animal oils except in rather small proportions, 5%, in the long run. The glycerol part of the triglyceride molecule will form coke together with unburned oil. The oil itself has a high boiling point, about 400-450 oC, which is too high for any diesel engine, The coke formed will settle on the nozzles, the combustion chamber and the exhaust valve and its seat and possibly also prevent the upper piston ring from working as intended. The pre-chamber diesel engines are a little more tolerant, meaning that they may function for a longer time without disturbances, but it is all in proportion to the un-transesterified oil content of the fuel. There are in both cases a serious risk for lubricating oil contamination. Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Hans Valcke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] SVI/B100 BLENDS Bo, Here in the Nederlands is a firm that make all kind os chickenfood. The restmaterial is chickenfat and the drive the volvotruck with the fat. The only thing you must do is warming up the fat to 80¡c for good running your engine because the viscocity. Hans - Original Message - From: Bo Lozoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 5:16 PM Subject: [Biofuel] SVI/B100 BLENDS Hi folks, I hear from more and more people who are mixing SVO into their B100 up to 50% and saying they have no problems with it. One place in Greensboro, NC, is actually selling filtered SVO to truckers in 18-wheelers and assuring them they can cut the cost of diesel fuel (regular petro-diesel) by mixing the SVO up to 50%. Does anyone have any data or experience on this so far as injectors, viscosity problems, etc? I'm sure in the short tem it might work just fine, but I'm wondering whether there's a back end to it that'll bite you in the butt. Bo ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The People's Business and Very big is very Bad
Helo Keith This topic is the most relevant as only the the people power, thus naturally true democracy, when channelled to the environmental protection of the place where the people live and depend the appropriate small scale ecotecnolgy , biorefinary will be the road map for the globalised Village and surely the Corporate control and participation to this model need to be done as this uncontrolled power can the real world problem now and near future leading to corruptions and bad politics and hence no democracy. This control can be as difficult as the relation between the powerful civilized man (the white and black) and the tribal native red Indians , the Big and the small village , seem to be impossible , but need to have their place and control too on the both the side With globalized weblog , webfotolog , opensoure new collaborative information data bases such as our biofuel , there is an surely role for the people too controle the the bad effects of the very big blues. I have seen how these powerful tools too are also serving for the big ones unlike ours. Regarding alcohol water stove , I have requested the author as you had pointed out to send the reply in public here about the compression and regulation. Let us see and expect his reply as his site.is an ONG follower of Gandhian Values and Principles . Thanking you Yours truely Pannirselvam On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 04:15:15 +0900, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Controlling Corporations Corporations aren't bad per se. But when corporations reach the size that they have reached today, they begin to overwhelm the political institutions that can keep them in check. Reckless capitalism undermines democracy. Nowhere is this more clear than in George W. Bush's administration. To push government to assume its rightful role as regulator, people need to engage as citizens-not just consumers or investors. http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/1971/ February 18, 2005 The People's Business Controlling corporations and restoring democracy By Lee Drutman and Charlie Cray One does not have to look far in Washington these days to find evidence that government policy is being crafted with America's biggest corporations in mind. For example, the Bush administration's 2006 budget cuts the enforcement budgets of almost all the major regulatory agencies. If the gutting of the ergonomics rule, power plant emissions standards and drug safety programs was not already enough evidence that OSHA, EPA and FDA are deeply compromised, the slashing of their enforcement budgets presents the possibility-indeed, probability-that these public agencies will become captives of the private corporations they are supposed to regulate. This should come as no surprise to anybody familiar with the streams of corporate money that flowed into Bush campaign coffers (as well as the Kerry campaign and all races for the House and Senate) in the 2004 election. The old follow the money adage leads us to a democracy in thrall to giant corporations-a democracy that is a far cry from the government of the people, by the people, and for the people that Lincoln hailed at Gettysburg. At a time when our democracy appears to be so thoroughly under the sway of large corporations, it is tempting to give up on politics. We must resist this temptation. Democracy offers the best solution to challenging corporate power. We must engage as citizens, not just as consumers or investors angling for a share of President Bush's ownership society. The problem of corporate power Unfortunately, the destructive power of large corporations today is not limited to the political sphere. The increasing domination of corporations over virtually every dimension of our lives-economic, political, cultural, even spiritual-poses a fundamental threat to the well-being of our society. Corporations have fostered a polarization of wealth that has undermined our faith in a shared sense of prosperity. A corporate-driven consumer culture has led millions of Americans into personal debt, and alienated millions more by convincing them that the only path to happiness is through the purchase and consumption of ever-increasing quantities of material goods. The damage to the earth's life-supporting systems caused by the accelerating extraction of natural resources and the continued production, use, and disposal of life-threatening chemicals and greenhouse gases is huge and, in some respects, irreversible. Today's giant corporations spend billions of dollars a year to project a positive, friendly and caring image, promoting themselves as responsible citizens and good neighbors. They have large marketing budgets and public relations experts skilled at neutralizing their critics and diverting attention from any controversy. By
Re: [Biofuel] Slum Politics and Ruralization of urban areas
Hello Keith There is very similar sad story too see this in TV and news paper too here in Brazil as they are in south , not in the west and north . Recently the good houses of the one of the very big soybean growing city called Goiania near the capital city of Brasil , Brasilia the same story has happened. The sad story here not the slum politics as the fight between the military police and the illegal house owner , had led to the death of 2 persons but every where all the same tsunami as these people live like the slum , not upto the level of the Big Beautiful SoyExport city . But the people there had been responsible to the growth of the soya , but the slum politics are the same every where. The local government has not granted legal status to homes , and bulldozed everything else. The devastation is tsunami-like, according to the TV emotional story .Many of Brazilian citizens watching , weeping this story like one we had witnessed the Tsunami. 20 thousand people have been made homeless thrown into the street as they need to start again and may need 20 hard life to have their own house and may be never. The big urbanization of the city of this Tsunami like Machine based cruel operation has no place where the old model of the Tribal native Indian based natural rural green place where all the things are for the the people for all based on true collaborative democracy is still valid which can only lead us to have journey for ever for peace Ruralization and biofuel are the alternative road map for this journey rather than bulldozer. Calcutta slum people has made the ecological park with the place they had obtained from the local gov , making possible to get fish from the municipal sewage waste, solar energy via simple eological ponds construction .This is the big project made not by engineers , but by the poor people practical ecological oriented big project .This project has been well documented by the TV Chanel's and several reports as this really good slum politics The people business can have more power than the machine made projects only the slum politics stops. We need here this topics as the thread where information flow can stop the future this type of the Tsunami. sd Pannir selvam On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 05:35:35 +0900, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.alternet.org/story/21297/ Slum Politics By James Westcott, AlterNet. Posted February 18, 2005. The squalid mini-city states known as slums now house at least one billion people across the world, living outside normal regulations. As their ranks swell, some are saying that it's time to start thinking of them a little differently. In the last three months, the Bombay Municipal Corporation has demolished 80,000 shanties in a city where 3 million people are slum dwellers. The local government recently granted legal status to homes built before 1995, and bulldozed everything else. The devastation is tsunami-like, according to the Indian Inter Press news agency. Three hundred and fifty thousand people have been made homeless but only 50,000 new apartments have been provided. The program is part of Bombay's plan to re-model itself on the ruthlessly prosperous Shanghai, which has tried to eradicate its slums. But Shanghai's slums remain, as they do in other cities, as part of an inexorable global trend: 200,000 people a day are carrot-and-sticked from the countryside to cities that then refuse to accommodate them. In Bombay they end up in shacks by the road, on railway tracks and next to the airport - embarrassingly visible from landing planes. In Lagos, two-thirds of which is made up of slums, a shanty town has sprouted up on an enormous, slowly burning garbage dump. In Kibera, the slum surrounding Nairobi, raw sewage flows over the few water pipes, and latrines are so scarce that people simply defecate in plastic bags and then throw them as far away from their dwelling as possible - a phenomenon called flying toilets. Eighty-five percent of the developing world's urban population now lives in slums, and 40 percent of slum dwellers in Africa live in what the UN calls life-threatening poverty. Elsewhere though, squatter communities are so well developed that they can't properly be called slums. With multi-story buildings, shops, businesses and offices - even a squatter town hall - Sultanbeyli in Istanbul is now almost indistinguishable from the adjacent legal city. Despite the varying conditions, the world's squatters hold certain things in common: they live in semi-sovereign, if squalid, mini-city states, paying no taxes and leaching services like water and electricity and, occasionally, some rights, from the legit world. They operate in an illegal or informal economy, and have only the most tenuous relationship with the
[Biofuel] Kyoto- termites CH4
http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwarming.nsf/UniqueKeyLookup/SHSU5BU M9T/$File/ghg_gwp.pdf Nice discussion re most aspects. Since CH4 may be 50 times more effective than CO2 as a greenhouse gas it seems termite management might be useful. It depends what termite management turns out to mean. If it means destroying termites on a large scale, and I'm not sure how else you could control their methane emissions, that might not be such a good idea. Most (70%?) of the world's wood goes through termites on its way back to the soil, to give rise to more wood and much besides. Removing the termites from the equation would seem an ideal case for the unexpected consequences we're by now so famous for when we fiddle about with the biosphere with all eyes on the desired result rather than the one and only law of ecology, that everything is connected to everything else. Disrupting wood growth in some unforeseen way will not do the carbon sink side of the equation a lot of good, for one thing. I'm not sure controlling termites would even decrease the methane output that much, at least some of the wood will still decay anaerobically. And I don't think methane's only function in the atmosphere is as a greenhouse gas. This is different to taxing farmers for their cow and sheep farts - the cows and sheep wouldn't be there but for the farmers, nor have they usually replaced other, wild farters. Usually the pasture has replaced trees. So this would probably qualify as man-made GG emissions. But looking to curtail the biosphere's normal production of GGs seems everywhere likely to backfire - trust us, we're experts. Um... nope. DB wrote: that global warming is real. It matters not whether it is man made or a natural occurence. Just as when the house is burning down you must first put out the fire. Then you can figure out It does matter whether it is man made or a natural occurence. The only sane way to go about controlling it is to mitigate what's caused it - not the natural emissions, which haven't increased, and which are everywhere a part of complex sets of interactions. It's only by controlling the manmade emissions, which have increased grossly, that we're likely to be able to ditch the bathwater and still keep the babies. The other aspect of this and other such suggestions is that it smacks so much of a drug addict flailing about in a desperate search for an alternative to cold turkey. It's not alcoholism that's the problem, we should be focusing on putting more resources into finding a cure for cyrrhosis. Right. Our wasteful, gas-guzzling, energy-spendthrift living style in the industrialised countries has to go. Regards Keith Kirk --- Keith Addison keith at journeytoforever.org wrote: Hello Rick Dear DB, I liked your response. Partly, I suppose, because it accords with my own thoughts. There is no doubt at this point that global warming is occurring even among some republicans. There's no doubt even among some republicans or it's occurring even among some republicans? The first, cause to rejoice (though that's been the case for awhile I think), if the second, depending who they are, if they're becoming prone to spontaneous combustion should we shed tears or consider them as an alternative energy source? (Sorry!) What drives it it the question. There are no shortage of non man made effects that could raise the global temperature. Methane produced by termite colonies world wide is more abundant than any man made green house gas. And it plays an important and complex role in the climate andd the upper atmosphere. The main problem with this sort of argument though, apart from the now-massive body of science that debunks it, is that the termites have not been working more and more overtime for the last 200 years to account for the rising temperatures. The lead contender for that, by a whole bunch of lengths, is CO2 produced by us. It seems apparent to me that what ever the cause the effect is not stoppable at this point. There is just no time left to turn the battleship before it hits the pier. How do you know that? A very premature conclusion, with little to support it that I know of. Again, at the Kyoto Protocol celebrations in Kyoto on Wednesday the speakers were talking of the need for 60-80% CO2 cuts, and these people were mostly being placatory, not provocative. Such figures have been making it into print more and more in the last couple of years. It was common parlance at the Climate Change conference in Nairobi in 1992, among those people I'd guess that 60-80% would now be seen as very conservative. So we (or some of us at least) blew it on precaution in favour of sheer greed, so now let's just accept that and give up trying to curb the damage we've done when we've hardly even begun? Is that what you're saying? Sod that. (Pardon me.) We're able to expend much greater
Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea
OK Kirk. Thanks for the reply. I have a couple of follow-up questions: First, Is accuracy of your temperature set points (or other I/O) a critical issue for controlling a process? Because, a PID or Smith compensator control can give you far better control of your process than a bi-metallic strip for example. Second, I'd like to rephrase the question: Is there any way (in your opinion) that obsolete computers can be put to use for the purposes of generating alternative energy? Lastly: Can anything really be called foolproof? If I count the number of times that I have a power outage/lightning strike on my property, I still come up with a good risk assessment -- especially since set points can be stored in memory while power is down and I'm not sure if any control system aside from a purely mechanical one, would be effective during those relatively rare times that a mishap occurs. I've made all of my arguments (so far) without touching on the potential of a computer like a 486 as a platform for control and data acquisition -- all for the price of a bi-metallic strip. So, after reading your reply and agreeing with its logic, I'm still not convinced that the idea of using obsolete computers is too far off base. Mike Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A temperature controller that would not upset because of lightning or other power line disturbance and would not lose its settings with power supply failure may prove superior especially if less expensive. Thus a bimetal strip may prove best in the long run. I am in favor of data logging and alarms via computer but fool proof and ultra reliable control usually means no computer. Kirk --- Michael Redler wrote: Hi everyone, For those of you who are working on your process control for ethanol/methanol or biodiesel production, I was wondering about something. I hate to send anything to the land fill or scrap yard that I might be able to use later and I'm sure you feel the same way. This philosophy has caused me to become a bit of a pack rat (and dumpster diver). My basement is neatly organized with old (486 and P1) computers, motors, and other mechanical/electrical devices from dissected printers and other obsolete or broken down equipment. I was thinking of developing generic software (in C or assembler) for old computers to convert them into process controllers. For example, it might make an effective temperature controller for your still. If this works, I would take the programs and put them on a web page for download. If it's truly generic (compatible with all XX86 architecture), it will be a matter of copying the executable file to the hard drive of a computer, adding a line to the autoexec.bat file and making a harness (serial/parallel port to solid state relays and sensors). Has anyone tried this already and if so, can that person please share their experience with me and those interested in this thread? Thanks! Regards, Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- termites CH4
Not to downplay the importance of methane to radiative forcing, but it has a half-life in the atmoshpere of only a few years, (it oxidises to CO2) Now the big question: how in the world do you propose to manage termites? I can't even imagine what it means. Regardless of who wrote: http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwarming.nsf/UniqueKeyLookup/SHSU5BUM9T/$File/ghg_gwp.pdf Nice discussion re most aspects. Since CH4 may be 50 times more effective than CO2 as a greenhouse gas it seems termite management might be useful. Kirk -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] SVI/B100 BLENDS
It is not advisable to run directly injected diesel engines on non-transesterified vegetable or animal oils except in rather small proportions, 5%, in the long run. The glycerol part of the triglyceride molecule will form coke together with unburned oil. The oil itself has a high boiling point, about 400-450 oC, which is too high for any dieselengine, (REPLY) Don't really know Jan. Mixing with regular diesel or bio-Diesel should lower the boiling point. I even used a small amount of gasoline added to WVO to do this but when I added gasoline this caused the saturated oil to settle out so never used it in the vehicle. The coke problem may be solved by adding an injector cleaner. I am adding 1 liter of automatic transmission fluid to 400-500 liters of WVO mix. Don't know if this will do the trick, only time will tell. The other approach that others have tried is to make sure the engine is warm before starting with a block heater , running on straight bio or mineral diesel for five minuits and then switching to SVO or WVO and then shutting down on B-100 or Diesel.. I haven't started making Bio yet so every third tank is diesel with injector cleaner added. Only time will tell if this is the right thing. Yours truly John Wilson Goldens *** Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph-Fax (902)665-2386) Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone. ^^^ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Question
Hello dear all, Can anyone tell me how to find out what is glycerin, soap or solid BD ? Recently I made a few batches of BD from a very poor quality WVO.( about one I already wrote; it was with water in it, which was of course my mistake ). At the moment it is winter in Holland and the temp is around zero ¡ C. The BD turns to a mixture of solid and liquid and I don't know what is what. When I filter it and put the liquid part in the tank, it is ok, but the solid part is about half of the whole lot. I don't realy trust this part enough to put in my tank in the summer, because it might be glyc or even soap or a mixture of the both (even mixed with solid BD ). Any help or advice would be very welcome. Something about the mistake I made : I made BD in a tank where there was some water in. The BD did not get clear, but like coffee with milk. I washed a one liter sample about 20 times now, and it is getting coffee with even more milk. The water at the bottom is clear now, but I am getting a little less BD after every time I washed it. Do you think I should turn the whole lot into soap, or is there any other solution thinkable ( I can imagion something with zeolite, but still I have not found any place where I can buy this stuff ( as far as I know I would need 3 )). By the way, is an old fashioned something (what is the word ?). These days it is written as 1.10 » meter, where a is -10 in this case. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- termites CH4
woods. The bears were here first. I look at all of the trees dying in Western Montana of pine bark beetle, another natural phenomenon caused in part by a warmer, dryer climate, and wonder why we don't cut them, burn them in power plants like the one in Thompson Falls, Montana USA and recycle the carbon into electricity. At the same time wildfire risks are moderated. Instead when this kind of logging is proposed, lawsuits are the inevitable consequence. I have watched hundreds of thousands of acres of Montana burn in the last few years, while the loggers want to strip mine the forests, and the tree huggers want to forbid any activity in the forests that might have any economic benefit to anyone. bob allen wrote: Howdy Kirk Not to downplay the importance of methane to radiative forcing, but it has a half-life in the atmoshpere of only a few years, (it oxidises to CO2) Now the big question: how in the world do you propose to manage termites? I can't even imagine what it means. Regardless of who wrote: http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwarming.nsf/UniqueKeyLookup/SHSU5BUM9T/$File/ghg_gwp.pdf Nice discussion re most aspects. Since CH4 may be 50 times more effective than CO2 as a greenhouse gas it seems termite management might be useful. Kirk ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea Hi everyone, ... I was thinking of developing generic software (in C or assembler) for old computers to convert them into process controllers. For example, it might make an effective temperature controller for your still. If this works, I would take the programs and put them on a web page for download. If it's truly generic (compatible with all XX86 architecture), it will be a matter of copying the executable file to the hard drive of a computer, adding a line to the autoexec.bat file and making a harness (serial/parallel port to solid state relays and sensors). Mike, I think you have a great idea. I do know that your choice of OS will be important. Between linux and microsoft there are a host of small, compact OSes that can be customized for specific support. I say this because depending on the level of control you are looking for (just turning off a mixer after a time limit or actually opening valves and running pumps) may be difficult to attain with a generic OS. However, I would look into the following areas for inspiration http://www.automatedaquariums.com/ http://www.brewtechlabs.com/prod01_falcon.htm http://www.employees.org/~joestone/Sbs/ http://www.controlanything.com/ When I started beer brewing I ran across some of this information. I don't brew enough beer to use any of this but its worth looking into. Let us know how you are progressing. I may be able to provide some help though I have never tried anything of this nature. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- termites CH4-and messing with the natural order of things
imagine whole plants full of farting cows and termites harnessed to generate the worlds energy! imagine the smell! it would have to be constructed in new jersey, it already stinks there anyway. on another note: I was just in Hawaii where they have a huge problem with mongoose, they were brought there in the hopes that they would control the rat population that came as stowaways on ships, instead they eat bird eggs. oops. will we ever learn? John Keith Addison wrote: Hi Kirk http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwarming.nsf/UniqueKeyLookup/SHSU5BU M9T/$File/ghg_gwp.pdf Nice discussion re most aspects. Since CH4 may be 50 times more effective than CO2 as a greenhouse gas it seems termite management might be useful. It depends what termite management turns out to mean. If it means destroying termites on a large scale, and I'm not sure how else you could control their methane emissions, that might not be such a good idea. Most (70%?) of the world's wood goes through termites on its way back to the soil, to give rise to more wood and much besides. Removing the termites from the equation would seem an ideal case for the unexpected consequences we're by now so famous for when we fiddle about with the biosphere with all eyes on the desired result rather than the one and only law of ecology, that everything is connected to everything else. Disrupting wood growth in some unforeseen way will not do the carbon sink side of the equation a lot of good, for one thing. I'm not sure controlling termites would even decrease the methane output that much, at least some of the wood will still decay anaerobically. And I don't think methane's only function in the atmosphere is as a greenhouse gas. This is different to taxing farmers for their cow and sheep farts - the cows and sheep wouldn't be there but for the farmers, nor have they usually replaced other, wild farters. Usually the pasture has replaced trees. So this would probably qualify as man-made GG emissions. But looking to curtail the biosphere's normal production of GGs seems everywhere likely to backfire - trust us, we're experts. Um... nope. DB wrote: that global warming is real. It matters not whether it is man made or a natural occurence. Just as when the house is burning down you must first put out the fire. Then you can figure out It does matter whether it is man made or a natural occurence. The only sane way to go about controlling it is to mitigate what's caused it - not the natural emissions, which haven't increased, and which are everywhere a part of complex sets of interactions. It's only by controlling the manmade emissions, which have increased grossly, that we're likely to be able to ditch the bathwater and still keep the babies. The other aspect of this and other such suggestions is that it smacks so much of a drug addict flailing about in a desperate search for an alternative to cold turkey. It's not alcoholism that's the problem, we should be focusing on putting more resources into finding a cure for cyrrhosis. Right. Our wasteful, gas-guzzling, energy-spendthrift living style in the industrialised countries has to go. Regards Keith Kirk --- Keith Addison keith at journeytoforever.org wrote: Hello Rick Dear DB, I liked your response. Partly, I suppose, because it accords with my own thoughts. There is no doubt at this point that global warming is occurring even among some republicans. There's no doubt even among some republicans or it's occurring even among some republicans? The first, cause to rejoice (though that's been the case for awhile I think), if the second, depending who they are, if they're becoming prone to spontaneous combustion should we shed tears or consider them as an alternative energy source? (Sorry!) What drives it it the question. There are no shortage of non man made effects that could raise the global temperature. Methane produced by termite colonies world wide is more abundant than any man made green house gas. And it plays an important and complex role in the climate andd the upper atmosphere. The main problem with this sort of argument though, apart from the now-massive body of science that debunks it, is that the termites have not been working more and more overtime for the last 200 years to account for the rising temperatures. The lead contender for that, by a whole bunch of lengths, is CO2 produced by us. It seems apparent to me that what ever the cause the effect is not stoppable at this point. There is just no time left to turn the battleship before it hits the pier. How do you know that? A very premature conclusion, with little to support it that I know of. Again, at the Kyoto Protocol celebrations in Kyoto on Wednesday the speakers were talking of the need for 60-80% CO2 cuts, and these people were mostly being placatory, not provocative. Such figures have been making it into
Re: [Biofuel] SVI/B100 BLENDS
Hello John. Keep in mind that you are addressing two different problems of the SVO. Number one is the viscosity which is quite easily reduced by adding ordinary diesel engine fuel. Number two is the boiling point which will not be seriously affected if you add a liquid with a lower boiling range. The final boiling point of the blend will still be that of the SVO according to its proportion of the blend. There is a company in South Africa; Sybron Chemicals, which successfully formulated a SVO additive. The additive consists from soot-producing substances, such as different phenols, which are highly toxic and cancerogenic. Most ordinary injector cleaners are not able to cleanse the coke (which are polymers) from SVO or WVO properly. Some of them even create more coke. If you want a good additive you should contact Sybron Chemicals in South Africa and address Mr Coetsee. I have not had contact with these people for about 10 years now, but I hope they are still in business. Best regards Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: John Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 3:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] SVI/B100 BLENDS It is not advisable to run directly injected diesel engines on non-transesterified vegetable or animal oils except in rather small proportions, 5%, in the long run. The glycerol part of the triglyceride molecule will form coke together with unburned oil. The oil itself has a high boiling point, about 400-450 oC, which is too high for any dieselengine, (REPLY) Don't really know Jan. Mixing with regular diesel or bio-Diesel should lower the boiling point. I even used a small amount of gasoline added to WVO to do this but when I added gasoline this caused the saturated oil to settle out so never used it in the vehicle. The coke problem may be solved by adding an injector cleaner. I am adding 1 liter of automatic transmission fluid to 400-500 liters of WVO mix. Don't know if this will do the trick, only time will tell. The other approach that others have tried is to make sure the engine is warm before starting with a block heater , running on straight bio or mineral diesel for five minuits and then switching to SVO or WVO and then shutting down on B-100 or Diesel.. I haven't started making Bio yet so every third tank is diesel with injector cleaner added. Only time will tell if this is the right thing. Yours truly John Wilson Goldens *** Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph-Fax (902)665-2386) Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone. ^^^ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea
Computers are great. I like them. But they aren't as reliable as simple physical systems. As for the delta T a bimetal can operate over it is a question of mechanical design. An electronic controller may theoretically switch over a change of a milli degree but in the real world the conductivity from the heater to the mass, the rate of heating, amount of mixing in a tank, rates of cooling etc can make for some temperature differences that are enormously larger than the sensitivity of the controller. As for upset my daughters computer lost its CMOS settings when the wrong breaker was thrown. Failed CMOS battery? Doesn't lose setup info if powered down. Doesn't lose it every time either. She also lost a satellite internet transponder due to a glitch on the powerline last year. Expensive spike that one. You will also note Windows users are warned to not use windows for critical control applications such as life support. In industry numerical controllers are widely used but critical operations have staff during operation and redundant controls if failure analysis indicates. Redundant controls and voting? That helps failure rate but it is still not perfect. I think if you size the heater so that if it fails on while unattended so that it cannot cause a fire or other danger then maybe your computer controller is an acceptable risk. Maybe include a bimetal disk cutout at 10 or 20 above highest temp ever used. Appliance clothes dryers have a backup cutout. They have to. Too many fires otherwise and those controllers are much more reliable than windoze. I think old computers are great for data logging but be damn careful when you include them in the loop for control. Always have a backup safety or you may have a situation not bargained for. Kirk --- Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK Kirk. Thanks for the reply. I have a couple of follow-up questions: First, Is accuracy of your temperature set points (or other I/O) a critical issue for controlling a process? Because, a PID or Smith compensator control can give you far better control of your process than a bi-metallic strip for example. Second, I'd like to rephrase the question: Is there any way (in your opinion) that obsolete computers can be put to use for the purposes of generating alternative energy? Lastly: Can anything really be called foolproof? If I count the number of times that I have a power outage/lightning strike on my property, I still come up with a good risk assessment -- especially since set points can be stored in memory while power is down and I'm not sure if any control system aside from a purely mechanical one, would be effective during those relatively rare times that a mishap occurs. I've made all of my arguments (so far) without touching on the potential of a computer like a 486 as a platform for control and data acquisition -- all for the price of a bi-metallic strip. So, after reading your reply and agreeing with its logic, I'm still not convinced that the idea of using obsolete computers is too far off base. Mike Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A temperature controller that would not upset because of lightning or other power line disturbance and would not lose its settings with power supply failure may prove superior especially if less expensive. Thus a bimetal strip may prove best in the long run. I am in favor of data logging and alarms via computer but fool proof and ultra reliable control usually means no computer. Kirk --- Michael Redler wrote: Hi everyone, For those of you who are working on your process control for ethanol/methanol or biodiesel production, I was wondering about something. I hate to send anything to the land fill or scrap yard that I might be able to use later and I'm sure you feel the same way. This philosophy has caused me to become a bit of a pack rat (and dumpster diver). My basement is neatly organized with old (486 and P1) computers, motors, and other mechanical/electrical devices from dissected printers and other obsolete or broken down equipment. I was thinking of developing generic software (in C or assembler) for old computers to convert them into process controllers. For example, it might make an effective temperature controller for your still. If this works, I would take the programs and put them on a web page for download. If it's truly generic (compatible with all XX86 architecture), it will be a matter of copying the executable file to the hard drive of a computer, adding a line to the autoexec.bat file and making a harness (serial/parallel port to solid state relays and sensors). Has anyone tried this already and if so, can that person please share their experience with me and those interested in this thread? Thanks! Regards, Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list
Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea
I've been thinking about using old PCs to do exactly this job for ages and for work I've used LabWindows to drive the parallel port for a host of stuff. I've been looking at using plain old DOS6.22 and freeware TurboC for control. Most parallel ports are bi-directional (well on any PC that still works), TurboC can be quite compact and when you run it under DOS there are no crazy Windows traps to fall into. I tested the PC port of an old 90MHz Pentium and I think I got 22ns switching rates from it. However, I haven't managed to get the time or useful purpose for any of my ideas yet but I'd be delighted to give you as much info as I have on controlling parallel ports and my limited knowledge of Turbo C. Paddy. DHAJOGLO wrote: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea Hi everyone, ... I was thinking of developing generic software (in C or assembler) for old computers to convert them into process controllers. For example, it might make an effective temperature controller for your still. If this works, I would take the programs and put them on a web page for download. If it's truly generic (compatible with all XX86 architecture), it will be a matter of copying the executable file to the hard drive of a computer, adding a line to the autoexec.bat file and making a harness (serial/parallel port to solid state relays and sensors). Mike, I think you have a great idea. I do know that your choice of OS will be important. Between linux and microsoft there are a host of small, compact OSes that can be customized for specific support. I say this because depending on the level of control you are looking for (just turning off a mixer after a time limit or actually opening valves and running pumps) may be difficult to attain with a generic OS. However, I would look into the following areas for inspiration http://www.automatedaquariums.com/ http://www.brewtechlabs.com/prod01_falcon.htm http://www.employees.org/~joestone/Sbs/ http://www.controlanything.com/ When I started beer brewing I ran across some of this information. I don't brew enough beer to use any of this but its worth looking into. Let us know how you are progressing. I may be able to provide some help though I have never tried anything of this nature. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this e-mail or any part thereof. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies of this e-mail from your computer system(s). Please direct any additional queries to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Feathers in PCs No Birdbrain Idea
- Feathers in PCs No Birdbrain Idea By Katie Dean Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,66361,00.html 02:00 AM Feb. 22, 2005 PT Researchers are turning to an unlikely source to developenvironmentally friendly computer components: the barnyard. Richard Wool, a professor of chemical engineering at the University of Delaware,wants to recycle discarded chicken feathers and use them to manufacturecircuit boards, replacing petroleum-based components with keratin-basedcomposites. Computer circuit boards are only one of the manyapplications researchers envision for this material. lt;agt;lt;imggt;lt;/agt; This is no birdbrain idea. One of the most well-known technologycompanies, Intel, is contributing its expertise to the project, Woolsaid. He recently submitted a proposal to the U.S. Department ofAgriculture for $500,000 over four years. If it is funded, theresearch will start in the fall. The basic goal is to introduce new green materials that will have apositive effect on the environment, reduce waste materials, provide abetter bang for the farmers' buck and improve the current properties ofpetroleum-based printed circuit boards, which are not sustainable,Wool said. It's the kind of the thing the USDA should be funding, he said. It'stheir chickens and their soybeans. Circuit boards are typically made of an epoxy-fiberglass composite,Wool said, which is then printed with wires and circuits. Woolenvisions using soybean oil to replace the epoxy and chicken feathersto replace the fiberglass, creating a healthier composite for theenvironment. The hair on the chicken feathers -- the quill is not used --contains about 50 percent air, which has some benefits: It lightens theweight of the composite and creates an environment conducive tohigh-speed circuits, Wool said. An Intel representative said it was a bit premature to discuss theproject at this time. Thanks to the country's appetite for chicken, there are a plenty offeathers available. They are generally seen as a nuisance, researcherssay, so it makes sense to reuse the 5 billion pounds of chickenfeathers generated in the United States each year. Currently, thefeathers are rendered into low-grade animal feed for cattle, calledfeather meal. Because of concerns over mad cow disease, the Food and DrugAdministration and the USDA are in the process of reviewing regulationson feeding animal byproducts like feather meal to herbivores, accordingto Walter Schmidt, research scientist for the USDA and the leadscientist on the feather-to-fiber patent. Feathers are not permittedfor use in animal feed in Great Britain and Europe. Using it in animal feed is a way of getting rid of a wasteproduct, Schmidt said. If (poultry producers) can make more moneyselling it for fiber, they would immediately do that. Schmidt said that in order for feathers to be useful in themanufacturing process, there must be a product that makes a profit, andsomeone needs to supply the fiber to the plant at a production levelthat is suitable for the manufacturer's use. Researchers are steppingin to address the first concern; David Emery, CEO and president ofFeatherFiber -- the only company that has licensed the USDA patent forfeather fiber -- addresses the second. There (are) always parts of an animal that companies wish theydidn't have because they don't make much money on them, said Emery, amechanical engineer and veteran of the meat-processing industry whobuilt all the machines in his pilot plant in Missouri. I always lookedat how I could process whatever part of the animal it was. To turn feathers into a usable product, they are first plucked fromthe birds at chicken-processing plants and then the hot, wet feathersare immediately hauled to Emery's plant. There the undesirable partslike chicken heads, feet, windpipes and fecal matter are sorted outfrom the truckload of feathers. They're not a nice sight, to put it mildly, Emery said. And theydon't smell very good, either. The feathers go through multiple washes, are dried, and the fibers(the fluffy part of the feather) are separated from their quills. Theequipment can also handle turkey feathers, which are normally difficultto process. It's like jamming pencils into conveyer belts, Emerysaid. The feather fiber and chopped-up quills are then baled separately. Wool, the University of Delaware researcher, receives the feathersafter Emery converts the feather fiber into keratin mats that resemblepaper towels. They are then placed into a mold, layered on top of oneanother and infused with a soybean resin that hardens and forms thecomposite. The material is then put through the circuit-printingprocess to become a circuit board. In addition to use in circuit boards, other possible applicationsfor the feathers include composite materials for the construction andautomotive industries. Hurricane-resistant roofing, termite-proofbuilding materials and nonstructural car parts like
Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea
always a rush of adrenalin when you run your own program and wait in anticipation to see if your programming skills don't blow up your basement ;o) Kirk McLoren wrote: Computers are great. I like them. But they aren't as reliable as simple physical systems. As for the delta T a bimetal can operate over it is a question of mechanical design. An electronic controller may theoretically switch over a change of a milli degree but in the real world the conductivity from the heater to the mass, the rate of heating, amount of mixing in a tank, rates of cooling etc can make for some temperature differences that are enormously larger than the sensitivity of the controller. As for upset my daughters computer lost its CMOS settings when the wrong breaker was thrown. Failed CMOS battery? Doesn't lose setup info if powered down. Doesn't lose it every time either. She also lost a satellite internet transponder due to a glitch on the powerline last year. Expensive spike that one. You will also note Windows users are warned to not use windows for critical control applications such as life support. In industry numerical controllers are widely used but critical operations have staff during operation and redundant controls if failure analysis indicates. Redundant controls and voting? That helps failure rate but it is still not perfect. I think if you size the heater so that if it fails on while unattended so that it cannot cause a fire or other danger then maybe your computer controller is an acceptable risk. Maybe include a bimetal disk cutout at 10 or 20 above highest temp ever used. Appliance clothes dryers have a backup cutout. They have to. Too many fires otherwise and those controllers are much more reliable than windoze. I think old computers are great for data logging but be damn careful when you include them in the loop for control. Always have a backup safety or you may have a situation not bargained for. Kirk --- Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK Kirk. Thanks for the reply. I have a couple of follow-up questions: First, Is accuracy of your temperature set points (or other I/O) a critical issue for controlling a process? Because, a PID or Smith compensator control can give you far better control of your process than a bi-metallic strip for example. Second, I'd like to rephrase the question: Is there any way (in your opinion) that obsolete computers can be put to use for the purposes of generating alternative energy? Lastly: Can anything really be called foolproof? If I count the number of times that I have a power outage/lightning strike on my property, I still come up with a good risk assessment -- especially since set points can be stored in memory while power is down and I'm not sure if any control system aside from a purely mechanical one, would be effective during those relatively rare times that a mishap occurs. I've made all of my arguments (so far) without touching on the potential of a computer like a 486 as a platform for control and data acquisition -- all for the price of a bi-metallic strip. So, after reading your reply and agreeing with its logic, I'm still not convinced that the idea of using obsolete computers is too far off base. Mike Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A temperature controller that would not upset because of lightning or other power line disturbance and would not lose its settings with power supply failure may prove superior especially if less expensive. Thus a bimetal strip may prove best in the long run. I am in favor of data logging and alarms via computer but fool proof and ultra reliable control usually means no computer. Kirk --- Michael Redler wrote: Hi everyone, For those of you who are working on your process control for ethanol/methanol or biodiesel production, I was wondering about something. I hate to send anything to the land fill or scrap yard that I might be able to use later and I'm sure you feel the same way. This philosophy has caused me to become a bit of a pack rat (and dumpster diver). My basement is neatly organized with old (486 and P1) computers, motors, and other mechanical/electrical devices from dissected printers and other obsolete or broken down equipment. I was thinking of developing generic software (in C or assembler) for old computers to convert them into process controllers. For example, it might make an effective temperature controller for your still. If this works, I would take the programs and put them on a web page for download. If it's truly generic (compatible with all XX86 architecture), it will be a matter of copying the executable file to the hard drive of a computer, adding a line to the autoexec.bat file and making a harness (serial/parallel port to solid state relays and sensors). Has anyone tried this already and if so, can that person please share their experience
Re: [Biofuel] Feathers in PCs No Birdbrain Idea
Kirk McLoren wrote: - Feathers in PCs No Birdbrain Idea By Katie Dean Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,66361,00.html 02:00 AM Feb. 22, 2005 PT Researchers are turning to an unlikely source to developenvironmentally friendly computer components: the barnyard. Richard Wool, a professor of chemical engineering at the University of Delaware,wants to recycle discarded chicken feathers and use them to manufacturecircuit boards, replacing petroleum-based components with keratin-basedcomposites. Computer circuit boards are only one of the manyapplications researchers envision for this material. lt;agt;lt;imggt;lt;/agt; This is no birdbrain idea. One of the most well-known technologycompanies, Intel, is contributing its expertise to the project, Woolsaid. He recently submitted a proposal to the U.S. Department ofAgriculture for $500,000 over four years. If it is funded, theresearch will start in the fall. The basic goal is to introduce new green materials that will have apositive effect on the environment, reduce waste materials, provide abetter bang for the farmers' buck and improve the current properties ofpetroleum-based printed circuit boards, which are not sustainable,Wool said. It's the kind of the thing the USDA should be funding, he said. It'stheir chickens and their soybeans. Circuit boards are typically made of an epoxy-fiberglass composite,Wool said, which is then printed with wires and circuits. Woolenvisions using soybean oil to replace the epoxy and chicken feathersto replace the fiberglass, creating a healthier composite for theenvironment. The hair on the chicken feathers -- the quill is not used --contains about 50 percent air, which has some benefits: It lightens theweight of the composite and creates an environment conducive tohigh-speed circuits, Wool said. An Intel representative said it was a bit premature to discuss theproject at this time. Thanks to the country's appetite for chicken, there are a plenty offeathers available. They are generally seen as a nuisance, researcherssay, so it makes sense to reuse the 5 billion pounds of chickenfeathers generated in the United States each year. Currently, thefeathers are rendered into low-grade animal feed for cattle, calledfeather meal. Because of concerns over mad cow disease, the Food and DrugAdministration and the USDA are in the process of reviewing regulationson feeding animal byproducts like feather meal to herbivores, accordingto Walter Schmidt, research scientist for the USDA and the leadscientist on the feather-to-fiber patent. Feathers are not permittedfor use in animal feed in Great Britain and Europe. Using it in animal feed is a way of getting rid of a wasteproduct, Schmidt said. If (poultry producers) can make more moneyselling it for fiber, they would immediately do that. Schmidt said that in order for feathers to be useful in themanufacturing process, there must be a product that makes a profit, andsomeone needs to supply the fiber to the plant at a production levelthat is suitable for the manufacturer's use. Researchers are steppingin to address the first concern; David Emery, CEO and president ofFeatherFiber -- the only company that has licensed the USDA patent forfeather fiber -- addresses the second. There (are) always parts of an animal that companies wish theydidn't have because they don't make much money on them, said Emery, amechanical engineer and veteran of the meat-processing industry whobuilt all the machines in his pilot plant in Missouri. I always lookedat how I could process whatever part of the animal it was. To turn feathers into a usable product, they are first plucked fromthe birds at chicken-processing plants and then the hot, wet feathersare immediately hauled to Emery's plant. There the undesirable partslike chicken heads, feet, windpipes and fecal matter are sorted outfrom the truckload of feathers. They're not a nice sight, to put it mildly, Emery said. And theydon't smell very good, either. The feathers go through multiple washes, are dried, and the fibers(the fluffy part of the feather) are separated from their quills. Theequipment can also handle turkey feathers, which are normally difficultto process. It's like jamming pencils into conveyer belts, Emerysaid. The feather fiber and chopped-up quills are then baled separately. Wool, the University of Delaware researcher, receives the feathersafter Emery converts the feather fiber into keratin mats that resemblepaper towels. They are then placed into a mold, layered on top of oneanother and infused with a soybean resin that hardens and forms thecomposite. The material is then put through the circuit-printingprocess to become a circuit board. In addition to use in circuit boards, other possible applicationsfor the feathers include composite materials for the construction andautomotive industries. Hurricane-resistant roofing, termite-proofbuilding materials and nonstructural
Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea
Kirk, Well, again, I don't think your logic is off base -- especially when it comes to redundancy in control systems. There are ways to approach each of the situations you described in your reply. I worked as a control engineer for a few years and wrote computer logic (typically 0 to 20 mA output) to control plastic processing equipment with thousand horsepower motors and precision temperature controls that ran 24/7. From my experience, there is an abundance of evidence in industry that shows the reliability of computer controls when done carefully. But, if you are not so convinced, that's OK too. I think at this point in our exchange, we can agree to disagree. I think that you have already considered the options and made a decision about which way to control your process. There is nobody more knowledgeable about your own process requirements than you. :-) Mike Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Computers are great. I like them. But they aren't as reliable as simple physical systems. As for the delta T a bimetal can operate over it is a question of mechanical design. An electronic controller may theoretically switch over a change of a milli degree but in the real world the conductivity from the heater to the mass, the rate of heating, amount of mixing in a tank, rates of cooling etc can make for some temperature differences that are enormously larger than the sensitivity of the controller. As for upset my daughters computer lost its CMOS settings when the wrong breaker was thrown. Failed CMOS battery? Doesn't lose setup info if powered down. Doesn't lose it every time either. She also lost a satellite internet transponder due to a glitch on the powerline last year. Expensive spike that one. You will also note Windows users are warned to not use windows for critical control applications such as life support. In industry numerical controllers are widely used but critical operations have staff during operation and redundant controls if failure analysis indicates. Redundant controls and voting? That helps failure rate but it is still not perfect. I think if you size the heater so that if it fails on while unattended so that it cannot cause a fire or other danger then maybe your computer controller is an acceptable risk. Maybe include a bimetal disk cutout at 10 or 20 above highest temp ever used. Appliance clothes dryers have a backup cutout. They have to. Too many fires otherwise and those controllers are much more reliable than windoze. I think old computers are great for data logging but be damn careful when you include them in the loop for control. Always have a backup safety or you may have a situation not bargained for. Kirk --- Michael Redler wrote: OK Kirk. Thanks for the reply. I have a couple of follow-up questions: First, Is accuracy of your temperature set points (or other I/O) a critical issue for controlling a process? Because, a PID or Smith compensator control can give you far better control of your process than a bi-metallic strip for example. Second, I'd like to rephrase the question: Is there any way (in your opinion) that obsolete computers can be put to use for the purposes of generating alternative energy? Lastly: Can anything really be called foolproof? If I count the number of times that I have a power outage/lightning strike on my property, I still come up with a good risk assessment -- especially since set points can be stored in memory while power is down and I'm not sure if any control system aside from a purely mechanical one, would be effective during those relatively rare times that a mishap occurs. I've made all of my arguments (so far) without touching on the potential of a computer like a 486 as a platform for control and data acquisition -- all for the price of a bi-metallic strip. So, after reading your reply and agreeing with its logic, I'm still not convinced that the idea of using obsolete computers is too far off base. Mike Kirk McLoren wrote: A temperature controller that would not upset because of lightning or other power line disturbance and would not lose its settings with power supply failure may prove superior especially if less expensive. Thus a bimetal strip may prove best in the long run. I am in favor of data logging and alarms via computer but fool proof and ultra reliable control usually means no computer. Kirk --- Michael Redler wrote: Hi everyone, For those of you who are working on your process control for ethanol/methanol or biodiesel production, I was wondering about something. I hate to send anything to the land fill or scrap yard that I might be able to use later and I'm sure you feel the same way. This philosophy has caused me to become a bit of a pack rat (and dumpster diver). My basement is neatly organized with old (486 and P1) computers, motors, and other mechanical/electrical devices from dissected
Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea
Right on! I knew that I couldn't possibly be the first person to think of this. I just didn't know where to look. I will definitely keep you informed of any progress. Thanks. Mike DHAJOGLO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea Hi everyone, ... I was thinking of developing generic software (in C or assembler) for old computers to convert them into process controllers. For example, it might make an effective temperature controller for your still. If this works, I would take the programs and put them on a web page for download. If it's truly generic (compatible with all XX86 architecture), it will be a matter of copying the executable file to the hard drive of a computer, adding a line to the autoexec.bat file and making a harness (serial/parallel port to solid state relays and sensors). Mike, I think you have a great idea. I do know that your choice of OS will be important. Between linux and microsoft there are a host of small, compact OSes that can be customized for specific support. I say this because depending on the level of control you are looking for (just turning off a mixer after a time limit or actually opening valves and running pumps) may be difficult to attain with a generic OS. However, I would look into the following areas for inspiration http://www.automatedaquariums.com/ http://www.brewtechlabs.com/prod01_falcon.htm http://www.employees.org/~joestone/Sbs/ http://www.controlanything.com/ When I started beer brewing I ran across some of this information. I don't brew enough beer to use any of this but its worth looking into. Let us know how you are progressing. I may be able to provide some help though I have never tried anything of this nature. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science
Sorry Mike Actually most CO2 emissions come from Decomposing Plant material. It is amazing what pointing out simple Off subject issues in a post will do. Cheers Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Redler Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 10:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science Hi Mark, You said: Kyoto is based on mostly Junk Science ...tell ya what Mark -- Since most of the emissions from our civilization comes from the burning of fossil fuels, here's a little experiment you can do at home. 1.) Get yourself a chain saw and bring it with you into your bathroom 2.) Close the door 3.) Start the chain saw and report the air quality every five minutes or until you pass out (whatever happens first). You might want to do this while a friend is in the next room. Safety first! 4.) As a side experiment, please do your best to run the engine dry so that it stimulates the brain to ask two questions: a.) where is my next fill up going to come from?. b.) If I perform this experiment again, is there an alternative fuel that will make my bathroom stink less and keep me from passing out so soon? If you decide to perform any experiments like this one, please get back to us with your results as soon as possible because I'm sure that everyone at JTF is anxious to know if fossil fuels really harm the environment and if those holes in the ground are really bottomless. ** not responsible for lost limbs or other injuries that occur during this experiment ** Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John Wilson wrote: Kyoto is nothing more than a means for the government in power to syphon from the tax payer billions of dollars for their friends and has very little to do with global warming. It also helps those countries that do not have a Etc etc, while Mark L. Thompson wrote: Kyoto is based on mostly Junk Science. Simulations that can't even predict better than random number generators. Hockey stick temperature graphs that the author will not even provide source data or equations for. Stratospherically temperatures that are running opposite to GW models. Kyoto is going to be economic suicide and I predict that most of Europe is going to figure it out and ... etc etc, and Duane Shaw wrote: Bravo Mark! And, no doubt, so on... Only in America! LOL! Opinions bought, funded and paid for by guess who??? Not exactly news... please see (along with further archives and other refs therein): http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050124/005269.html [Biofuel] Oil firms fund climate change 'denial' What a surprise! But, as Bob Allen notes: It is impossible to reason someone out of something that they did not reason themselves into in the first place. Jonathan Swift. Yea, verily. Maybe a bit of mockery instead? Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] SVI/B100 BLENDS
Hi folks, I hear from more and more people who are mixing SVO into their B100 up to 50% and saying they have no problems with it. When they've done half a million miles or so and still had no problems, and a wide variety of diesels have done the same, then we can believe them. One place in Greensboro, NC, is actually selling filtered SVO to truckers in 18-wheelers and assuring them they can cut the cost of diesel fuel (regular petro-diesel) by mixing the SVO up to 50%. Does anyone have any data or experience on this so far as injectors, viscosity problems, etc? I'm sure in the short tem it might work just fine, but I'm wondering whether there's a back end to it that'll bite you in the butt. Bo Have a look at the references here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#refs Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel: Journey to Forever Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Question
The word you are looking for could be Angstrom which is one tenth of a nanometer. It is used mainly in chemistry and sometimes in electronics. Paddy. Pieter Koole wrote: Hello dear all, Can anyone tell me how to find out what is glycerin, soap or solid BD ? Recently I made a few batches of BD from a very poor quality WVO.( about one I already wrote; it was with water in it, which was of course my mistake ). At the moment it is winter in Holland and the temp is around zero ¡ C. The BD turns to a mixture of solid and liquid and I don't know what is what. When I filter it and put the liquid part in the tank, it is ok, but the solid part is about half of the whole lot. I don't realy trust this part enough to put in my tank in the summer, because it might be glyc or even soap or a mixture of the both (even mixed with solid BD ). Any help or advice would be very welcome. Something about the mistake I made : I made BD in a tank where there was some water in. The BD did not get clear, but like coffee with milk. I washed a one liter sample about 20 times now, and it is getting coffee with even more milk. The water at the bottom is clear now, but I am getting a little less BD after every time I washed it. Do you think I should turn the whole lot into soap, or is there any other solution thinkable ( I can imagion something with zeolite, but still I have not found any place where I can buy this stuff ( as far as I know I would need 3 )). By the way, is an old fashioned something (what is the word ?). These days it is written as 1.10 » meter, where a is -10 in this case. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this e-mail or any part thereof. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies of this e-mail from your computer system(s). Please direct any additional queries to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea
Thanks Paddy! Ah yes...time. It's funny that way. I remember being in high school and complaining how I didn't have any money. It would be nice to have both some day. :-) Mike Paddy O'Reilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I've been thinking about using old PCs to do exactly this job for ages and for work I've used LabWindows to drive the parallel port for a host of stuff. I've been looking at using plain old DOS6.22 and freeware TurboC for control. Most parallel ports are bi-directional (well on any PC that still works), TurboC can be quite compact and when you run it under DOS there are no crazy Windows traps to fall into. I tested the PC port of an old 90MHz Pentium and I think I got 22ns switching rates from it. However, I haven't managed to get the time or useful purpose for any of my ideas yet but I'd be delighted to give you as much info as I have on controlling parallel ports and my limited knowledge of Turbo C. Paddy. DHAJOGLO wrote: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea Hi everyone, ... I was thinking of developing generic software (in C or assembler) for old computers to convert them into process controllers. For example, it might make an effective temperature controller for your still. If this works, I would take the programs and put them on a web page for download. If it's truly generic (compatible with all XX86 architecture), it will be a matter of copying the executable file to the hard drive of a computer, adding a line to the autoexec.bat file and making a harness (serial/parallel port to solid state relays and sensors). Mike, I think you have a great idea. I do know that your choice of OS will be important. Between linux and microsoft there are a host of small, compact OSes that can be customized for specific support. I say this because depending on the level of control you are looking for (just turning off a mixer after a time limit or actually opening valves and running pumps) may be difficult to attain with a generic OS. However, I would look into the following areas for inspiration http://www.automatedaquariums.com/ http://www.brewtechlabs.com/prod01_falcon.htm http://www.employees.org/~joestone/Sbs/ http://www.controlanything.com/ When I started beer brewing I ran across some of this information. I don't brew enough beer to use any of this but its worth looking into. Let us know how you are progressing. I may be able to provide some help though I have never tried anything of this nature. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this e-mail or any part thereof. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies of this e-mail from your computer system(s). Please direct any additional queries to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science
Sorry Mike Actually most CO2 emissions come from Decomposing Plant material. That is immaterial. Those emissions are essentially steady state. Anthropogenic emissions are above and beyond natural emissions. The simple fact remains that the concentration of CO2 is higher now than it has been for at least 400,000 years. It is amazing what pointing out simple Off subject issues in a post will do. it is also important to keep things in context. Cheers Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Redler Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 10:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science Hi Mark, You said: Kyoto is based on mostly Junk Science ...tell ya what Mark -- Since most of the emissions from our civilization comes from the burning of fossil fuels, here's a little experiment you can do at home. 1.) Get yourself a chain saw and bring it with you into your bathroom 2.) Close the door 3.) Start the chain saw and report the air quality every five minutes or until you pass out (whatever happens first). You might want to do this while a friend is in the next room. Safety first! 4.) As a side experiment, please do your best to run the engine dry so that it stimulates the brain to ask two questions: a.) where is my next fill up going to come from?. b.) If I perform this experiment again, is there an alternative fuel that will make my bathroom stink less and keep me from passing out so soon? If you decide to perform any experiments like this one, please get back to us with your results as soon as possible because I'm sure that everyone at JTF is anxious to know if fossil fuels really harm the environment and if those holes in the ground are really bottomless. ** not responsible for lost limbs or other injuries that occur during this experiment ** Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John Wilson wrote: Kyoto is nothing more than a means for the government in power to syphon from the tax payer billions of dollars for their friends and has very little to do with global warming. It also helps those countries that do not have a Etc etc, while Mark L. Thompson wrote: Kyoto is based on mostly Junk Science. Simulations that can't even predict better than random number generators. Hockey stick temperature graphs that the author will not even provide source data or equations for. Stratospherically temperatures that are running opposite to GW models. Kyoto is going to be economic suicide and I predict that most of Europe is going to figure it out and ... etc etc, and Duane Shaw wrote: Bravo Mark! And, no doubt, so on... Only in America! LOL! Opinions bought, funded and paid for by guess who??? Not exactly news... please see (along with further archives and other refs therein): http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050124/005269.html [Biofuel] Oil firms fund climate change 'denial' What a surprise! But, as Bob Allen notes: It is impossible to reason someone out of something that they did not reason themselves into in the first place. Jonathan Swift. Yea, verily. Maybe a bit of mockery instead? Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science
On Feb 22, 2005, at 9:32 AM, Thompson, Mark L. (PNB RD) wrote: Sorry Mike Actually most CO2 emissions come from Decomposing Plant material. It is amazing what pointing out simple Off subject issues in a post will do. Decomposing plant material is carbon-neutral, of course, and therefore completely irrelevant to greenhouse warming. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Oil exporters' shift to euros behind dollar's fall: Soros
The Standard Oil exporters' shift to euros behind dollar's fall: Soros February 22, 2005 Moves by Middle East oil exporters and Russia to switch some revenue from dollars to euros lie behind the United States currency's weakness, and a further rise in crude prices could prompt more declines, billionaire investor George Soros said Monday. He told delegates to the Jeddah Economic Forum that the dollar's fall should help to lower the US current account and trade deficits, but warned that a fall beyond an undisclosed ``tipping point'' would severely disrupt markets. The US current account deficit is more than 5 percent of gross domestic product despite the currency's three-year slide. The dollar, however, has staged a comeback recently, gaining about 3.6 percent against the euro and 3 percent versus the yen so far this year. ``The oil exporting countries' central banks ... have been switching out of dollars mainly into euros and Russia also plays an important role in this. That is, I think, at the bottom of the current weakness of the dollar,'' Soros said. Soros, dubbed ``The Man who broke the Bank of England'' for his role as a hedge fund manager in betting the pound would drop in 1992, said he is not predicting further falls in the value of the dollar. But he linked its fate to the price of oil. ``The higher the price of oil the more the dollars there are to be switched to euro [so] the strength of oil will reinforce the weakness of the dollar,'' he said. ``That is only one factor, but I think there is such a relationship.'' US crude hit a record US$55.67 (HK$434.22) a barrel late last year and prices remain close to US$50 a barrel. In comments on the sidelines of the forum, Soros said the US current account deficit could be financed at the current level of the dollar. ``There are willing holders of the dollar. There are the Asian countries that are happy to accumulate dollar balances in order to have an export surplus and a market for their dollars,'' he said. Soros would not make detailed comments on why long-term borrowing costs have fallen in the face of short-term rate increases, a development US Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan said Wednesday he found difficult to explain. ``A flattening of the yield curve is usually an indication of a slowing economy, but here I don't know,'' Soros said. REUTERS Copyright 2005, The Standard, Sing Tao Newspaper Group and Global China Group. All rights reserved. No content may be redistributed or republished, either eletronically or in print, without express written consent of The Standard. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea
Hi, Have you thought of using Linux for this use?? There are no problems with the thought police, there are optimised distros made for these types of jobs, inc real-time o/s's. Remember: no virus problems in Linux (albeit yet!) regards Doug On Wednesday 23 February 2005 5:03, Michael Redler wrote: Thanks Paddy! Ah yes...time. It's funny that way. I remember being in high school and complaining how I didn't have any money. It would be nice to have both some day. :-) Mike Paddy O'Reilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I've been thinking about using old PCs to do exactly this job for ages and for work I've used LabWindows to drive the parallel port for a host of stuff. I've been looking at using plain old DOS6.22 and freeware TurboC for control. Most parallel ports are bi-directional (well on any PC that still works), TurboC can be quite compact and when you run it under DOS there are no crazy Windows traps to fall into. I tested the PC port of an old 90MHz Pentium and I think I got 22ns switching rates from it. However, I haven't managed to get the time or useful purpose for any of my ideas yet but I'd be delighted to give you as much info as I have on controlling parallel ports and my limited knowledge of Turbo C. Paddy. DHAJOGLO wrote: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea Hi everyone, ... I was thinking of developing generic software (in C or assembler) for old computers to convert them into process controllers. For example, it might make an effective temperature controller for your still. If this works, I would take the programs and put them on a web page for download. If it's truly generic (compatible with all XX86 architecture), it will be a matter of copying the executable file to the hard drive of a computer, adding a line to the autoexec.bat file and making a harness (serial/parallel port to solid state relays and sensors). Mike, I think you have a great idea. I do know that your choice of OS will be important. Between linux and microsoft there are a host of small, compact OSes that can be customized for specific support. I say this because depending on the level of control you are looking for (just turning off a mixer after a time limit or actually opening valves and running pumps) may be difficult to attain with a generic OS. However, I would look into the following areas for inspiration http://www.automatedaquariums.com/ http://www.brewtechlabs.com/prod01_falcon.htm http://www.employees.org/~joestone/Sbs/ http://www.controlanything.com/ When I started beer brewing I ran across some of this information. I don't brew enough beer to use any of this but its worth looking into. Let us know how you are progressing. I may be able to provide some help though I have never tried anything of this nature. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this e-mail or any part thereof. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies of this e-mail from your computer system(s). Please direct any additional queries to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] need a catchy title
To list, On friday I have been asked to talk about my biodiesel project. I need a good title. I was thinking of calling it: Why does that bus smell like french fries? A look at diesel fuel from vegitable oil. any (quick) thoughts? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science
Mark, I think Ken and Bob did a good job addressing your response. So, I need not add to it. Even if Ken and Bob are wrong and global warming is junk science, you're missing the point. Most people associate Kyoto with global warming. However, you can't address global warming without also addressing air quality (your health) and sustainability. Irrespective of your opinion about the credibility of global warming, you are downplaying the importance for human beings to become the Stewards of their environment when you attack the objectives of the Kyoto protocols and the spirit in which it was written. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who considers themselves an environmental activist and is within an earshot of such an opinion, should actively oppose it and prevent others from adopting such a dangerous position. Mike. Thompson, Mark L. (PNB RD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry Mike Actually most CO2 emissions come from Decomposing Plant material. It is amazing what pointing out simple Off subject issues in a post will do. Cheers Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Redler Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 10:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science Hi Mark, You said: Kyoto is based on mostly Junk Science ...tell ya what Mark -- Since most of the emissions from our civilization comes from the burning of fossil fuels, here's a little experiment you can do at home. 1.) Get yourself a chain saw and bring it with you into your bathroom 2.) Close the door 3.) Start the chain saw and report the air quality every five minutes or until you pass out (whatever happens first). You might want to do this while a friend is in the next room. Safety first! 4.) As a side experiment, please do your best to run the engine dry so that it stimulates the brain to ask two questions: a.) where is my next fill up going to come from?. b.) If I perform this experiment again, is there an alternative fuel that will make my bathroom stink less and keep me from passing out so soon? If you decide to perform any experiments like this one, please get back to us with your results as soon as possible because I'm sure that everyone at JTF is anxious to know if fossil fuels really harm the environment and if those holes in the ground are really bottomless. ** not responsible for lost limbs or other injuries that occur during this experiment ** Mike Keith Addison wrote: John Wilson wrote: Kyoto is nothing more than a means for the government in power to syphon from the tax payer billions of dollars for their friends and has very little to do with global warming. It also helps those countries that do not have a Etc etc, while Mark L. Thompson wrote: Kyoto is based on mostly Junk Science. Simulations that can't even predict better than random number generators. Hockey stick temperature graphs that the author will not even provide source data or equations for. Stratospherically temperatures that are running opposite to GW models. Kyoto is going to be economic suicide and I predict that most of Europe is going to figure it out and ... etc etc, and Duane Shaw wrote: Bravo Mark! And, no doubt, so on... Only in America! LOL! Opinions bought, funded and paid for by guess who??? Not exactly news... please see (along with further archives and other refs therein): http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050124/005269.html [Biofuel] Oil firms fund climate change 'denial' What a surprise! But, as Bob Allen notes: It is impossible to reason someone out of something that they did not reason themselves into in the first place. Jonathan Swift. Yea, verily. Maybe a bit of mockery instead? Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- termites CH4-and messing with the natural order of things
This is not so wild an idea as you suggest. I remember reading a few years back about a fellow in France who piled up a huge mound of waste wood chips and drove a pipe into the center of it. As the termites went to work in the pile as well, I suppose, as bacteria, the methane they generated escaped through the pipe and was captures in inter tubes which would be inflated from the pressure of the gas. He claimed to be able to collect enough gas from this rather primitive system to supply his cooking stove. Rick John Guttridge wrote: Ahh, perhaps we could collect the methane and use it as fuel!!! imagine whole plants full of farting cows and termites harnessed to generate the worlds energy! imagine the smell! it would have to be constructed in new jersey, it already stinks there anyway. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- termites CH4-and messing with the natural order of things
Dear John, This is not so wild an idea as you suggest. I remember reading a few years back about a fellow in France who piled up a huge mound of waste wood chips and drove a pipe into the center of it. Jean Pain: France's King of Green Gold http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#pain See also previous messages on this subject: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/?keywords=%22Jean+Pain%22time=6 monthsusertime=2002-12-31 As the termites went to work in the pile as well, Did they? I suppose, as bacteria, Termites are not bacteria. the methane they generated escaped through the pipe and was captures in inter tubes which would be inflated from the pressure of the gas. He claimed to be able to collect enough gas from this rather primitive system to supply his cooking stove. He supplied much more than that, including fuel for a car. I don't think it's a primitive system. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Rick John Guttridge wrote: Ahh, perhaps we could collect the methane and use it as fuel!!! imagine whole plants full of farting cows and termites harnessed to generate the worlds energy! imagine the smell! it would have to be constructed in new jersey, it already stinks there anyway. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- termites CH4-and messing with the natural orderof things
Hi John, You'll be amused to know that here in New Zealand our Nanny State government once contemplated a fart tax on stock farmers, based on the number of animals they owned. It was eventually laughed out of court. As for messing with the natural order of things, the first Europeans settlers here found a land devoid of all dangerous animals and reptiles, in fact no snakes or mammals at all. They also found an incredible range of native forest and rare plant species, and a wealth of tree-dwelling and ground-dwelling birds. Bird song, they reported, was almost symphonic. It rang throughout the hills and forests. In the last 150 years we imported a whole range of pests such as sparrows, mynahs, rabbits, rats, cats, stoats, weasels, possums and deer. The deer and possums are chewing up our natural forests at a frightening rate while the other nasties have all but wiped out the native birds. We now spend huge sums annually just keeping the deer and possum numbers down, while holding a few endangered birds on offshore islands. There is no hope of eradicating the pests so they remain a burden on the taxpayer forever. Regards, Bob. - Original Message - From: John Guttridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 5:03 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- termites CH4-and messing with the natural orderof things (snip) I was just in Hawaii where they have a huge problem with mongoose, they were brought there in the hopes that they would control the rat population that came as stowaways on ships, instead they eat bird eggs. oops. will we ever learn? John http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science
Bob Ken You are both correct for the most part, but, I would like to point out a few things that you may want to consider, that make me disagree with parts of your statements.. Decomposing plant material is not totaly carbon neutral nor steady state. After all where did coal come from, but, the remains of plants that did not decompose.This process can not be carbon neutral. Decomposing plants can be carbon positive or carbon negative, depending on many factors, some of which depend on soil moisture and ambient air temperature. It is also known that simply disturbing the soil in one way or another can increase or decrease the rate of decay - and change the amount that will decay over all.Increasing the amount of available moisture in arid soils ( like through the use of irrigation ), increases the over all amount and rate of decay.Draining a swamp can do the same thing, as can simply plowing a field, because it makes more organic matter exposed to air. Making aerobic soils anoxic, slows the rate of decay and retards the over all amount of decay by a large amount. An experiment done in Alaska, studying the effects of forest fires, showed that in areas of permafrost, a fire has 2 effects in generating CO2.The first comes directly from the fire it's self, and the second, comes from the destruction of the top layer of peat.Once the top layer of peat is burned away, it can no longer insulate the permafrost lower down, once the permafrost melts, the peat in those layers is subject to decay, and it release's more CO2 while decaying, for months even years after the fire has occurred. Greg H. - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 11:18 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science Thompson, Mark L. (PNB RD) wrote: Sorry Mike Actually most CO2 emissions come from Decomposing Plant material. That is immaterial. Those emissions are essentially steady state. Anthropogenic emissions are above and beyond natural emissions. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 11:31 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science Decomposing plant material is carbon-neutral, of course, and therefore completely irrelevant to greenhouse warming. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] affordable methanol in uk
Thanks will do. JD2005 - Original Message - From: michael hicks Try Jennychem 016934 290770 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
