date:20060413

On 14 Apr 2006, at 11:05, Appal Energy wrote:

>> Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what
>> he wanted or you would have violence on your hands.
>
> Violence at who's initiation?
snip
>
> Something about having a foot in the middle of your back just doesn't
> cotton too well towards the idea of "peace."

Exactly.  I'm saying he didn't lead a band of trained peace  
protesters, there were those but not all.  The majority were regular  
folk, of whatever race, that were pissed that things were the way  
they were and if they didn't see things progressing they were prone  
to display their displeasure.  When I read about MLK, I also read  
about "unrest".

>> That's why he had to be killed.
>
> Excuse me? Advocating equality is justification for murder?
> Let me guess..., I misunderstand what you wrote.
>
> Todd Swearingen

Maybe.  He was a proponent for change, for equality.  In the great  
scheme of U.S. empire building that comes contrary to profit.  I'm  
saying the same people that had Kennedy killed had MLK killed.   
Justified?  I never said that.  I didn't say he should die.  I said  
that the powers that be were not about to leave him alive.

Gary

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Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11

Gandhi I've only got a passing familiarity with, even though he seems to be referred to as the father of non-violent protest.Maybe he was perfect and maybe his followers were never incited to riot or to violence. If so, then in this case I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I'd like to be wrong. I wish my cynical world view was wrong and that if you really are pure of heart then the truth will win out in the end and peace will fall on the land but I guess I just haven't seen it in my life time.On 14 Apr 2006, at 10:20, Keith Addison wrote: ask: what would Martin Luther King Jr or Ghandi do? Who would Jesus bomb? The moneylenders in the temple? "Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it. I don't think so. So what about Gandhi? And indeed Jesus? Let's have a look at the global protests since Seattle in 1999, what about them? I see lots on violence on the TV where protests are going on. Where are the peaceful ones? I'm serious. Educate me. Maybe I'm turning blinders to peace because it seems to me that all there is, is evil and violence in the world at large. Little people being crushed under the wheel of US empire building and Globalization monster.This Jesus guy though. The more I read about the true, historical Jesus he is looking less and less like the guy in the Wholly Roman Bible and more like an Iraqi insurgent. He was closely associated with the Zealots who were fighting against the Roman occupation. When his plans of political ascension fell apart, looks like he high tailed it out of there and maybe joined Mary Mag in France.Keith, educate me. Where am I wrong?___
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Re: [Biofuel] sustainable biodiesel from Casto : Big is not beautiful, small is more sustainable

2006-04-13 Thread Chandan Haldar





Some of my friends here in India (who know more about agriculture than
I do) would have me believe that traditionally castor oilseed cakes are
allowed to decompose by soaking in a little water for a couple of weeks
and then put back into the soil as fertilizer (same as done with
mustard oilseed cakes).  Apparently it is a very effective organic
fertilizer and no ill effects seem to be manifest in the use of the
resulting crops.  I see no reason to blindly believe that traditional
methods are always free of bad effects, however, I understand that
castor is a native plant species of India, therefore this practice
could well be thousands of years old.  May be we have developed an
ability to digest ricin :-).

Chandan


Keith Addison wrote:

  


 By using one step  simultaneous  extraction and


  esterification , the patented process use crushed seeds  to make
four products , the BioD , the glycerol , the protein, carbohydrate
that seem to deintoxicated for animal feed  is now being   scaled up
to big pilot plant.
  



I interpreted this to mean that the crushed seeds are subjected to the
alkali catalyst/methanol hence the seedcake is exposed to the reaction.
 I've seen papers other papers discuss simultaneous extraction/reaction
with soya bean flakes. the problem was that much more methanol is need
to extract the oil during the processing into biodiesel, partly due to
the moisture content of the beans.

  
  
I'm sure you're right Bob, I have several of those papers. Good 
explanation, sorry I didn't get it first time. I was looking at other 
information to check where the ricin was. Thanks!

Keith
  




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Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11

Okay, let's take this in chunks.Yes, there is peaceful protest but how effective is it really?  It's not.  It doesn't get much media coverage and gets ignored or forgotten if it is reported.People Power in the PI?  Again the threat of violence was there, there were isolated incidents if I remember correctly.Where MLK went there were often riots, big or small okay, small riot is an oxymoron but you get the idea.  MLK spoke constantly of non-violence but there were the agitators in the back that kept things on edge.  Did MLK secretly coordinate with them?  Who knows.  All I'm saying here is without the iron fist inside the silk glove you won't be taken seriously.Sorry if it appears I'm stomping on one of your heros but I see very few people as saints be they good or bad.  Politics are everywhere no matter what your agenda be it for good or bad.  Someone once said that if you were not into politics, you will be done in by politics.  On 14 Apr 2006, at 10:20, Keith Addison wrote:Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he  wanted or you would have violence on your hands.  The man was not a saint but he was very good at what he did.  That's  why he had to be killed.  And so that proves your point, there's no such thing as peaceful  protest, it's just a sham?  Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this: ___
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Re: [Biofuel] Revolution!? [was] BYU professor's group accuses...

Damn!  Be quiet man.  That's my retirement strategy.


On 13 Apr 2006, at 22:26, Michael Redler wrote:

> Canada may see an exodus of stupid white men entering their country  
> from the South. They will deny that they are seeking exile and  
> insist that they are simply moving to the next State.
>


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[Biofuel] The VW Rabbit is back.

2006-04-13 Thread Appal Energy

http://news.com.com/Photos+NY+Auto+Show+pulls+a+Rabbit+from+its+hat/2300-11389_3-6060841.html
 


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Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11

2006-04-13 Thread Appal Energy

 > Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what
 > he wanted or you would have violence on your hands.

Violence at who's initiation? You mean to tell me those poor, backward, 
racist, white boys don't know how to behave and can't control 
themselves, so everyone else is supposed to conform to their ignorance? 
Everyone can have peace at their pleasure or not at all?

Something about having a foot in the middle of your back just doesn't 
cotton too well towards the idea of "peace."

 > That's why he had to be killed.

Excuse me? Advocating equality is justification for murder?

Let me guess..., I misunderstand what you wrote.

Todd Swearingen


Gary L. Green wrote:

> Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted 
> or you would have violence on your hands.
>
> The man was not a saint but he was very good at what he did.  That's 
> why he had to be killed.
>
>
> On  14Apr, 2006, at 4:41 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
>
>>> "Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it.
>>>
>>
>> I don't think so. I
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Biofuels Movement Is A Scam That Needs To Be Stopped

Hello E. Allen C.

>Hi Alan;
>   I mostly just read, here, having very little
>expertise in any of the technicalities; however, i
>feel compelled to speak up this time.
>   This concerned citizen is not an idiot -- seems
>misinformed (probably by the MM as an only source (?),
>but raises some valid issues & is "stirring the pot"
>of public discourse; that's a good thing.
>   Biofuel, IMVHO, is only a tiny slice of
>Sustainability, & at best buys us a little time to
>adjust to the monumentalities of changing an entire
>culture, world-wide -- time we desperately need (&
>don't really have, according to what i hear from the
>scientific community).  At worst, it is a chimera that
>can allow most of us to go on with an unsustainable
>life-style while feeling "good and righteous" about
>it.
>E. Allen C.

So biofuels is biofuels is biofuels?

In other words it makes no difference whether the crop that produces 
it is an industrialised GMO monocrop desert grown with high 
fossil-fuel inputs, uses more fossil fuels to truck it step by step 
to a distant large-scale biodiesel plant where more fossil-fuels are 
used to produce the fuel, then yet more fossil fuels are used to 
truck it to distant markets, and so on, or something like this, say?

http://snipurl.com/p47s
[Biofuel] Biodiesel test results

Do you think that's the only way to produce biofuels crops, or any 
crops? If biofuels are just a passing chimera, what are real farmers 
to use as fuel on their sustainable farms, which are now spreading so 
fast worldwide?

Have a read of this before you go any further:

"How much fuel can we grow? How much land will it take?"
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#howmuch

I think rather large slices of the scientific community haven't quite 
got to grips with that yet. Give it a try.

Alan's idiot, well, I don't think it matters:

http://snipurl.com/p62r
[Biofuel] Biodiesel test results

Best

Keith

>--- Alan Petrillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
>http://www.sptimes.com/2006/04/08/Opinion/Biofuels_movement_is_.shtml
> >
> > Someone please educate this idiot.
> >
> >
> > AP

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Re: [Biofuel] Biofuels Movement Is A Scam That Needs To Be Stopped

E. Allen C.You wrote: "Biofuel, IMVHO, is only a tiny slice of Sustainability, & at best buys us a little time..."I doubt you will find many home-brew biofuel enthusiasts telling you that it's "the" answer to our energy problems. In direct response to the above quote, biofuels will do much more than buy us a little time if used as part (a "slice") of a comprehensive energy strategy.Biofuels are sustainable by virtue of that fact that they are farmed. If you adopt the misleading position of people like George Monbiot (Feeding Cars, Not People) and you compare gallon for gallon, the prospects of replacing petroleum oil with biofuel, it paints a distorted picture of what lies ahead.Mike     "E. C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Hi Alan;I mostly just read,
 here, having very littleexpertise in any of the technicalities; however, ifeel compelled to speak up this time.This concerned citizen is not an idiot -- seemsmisinformed (probably by the MM as an only source (?),but raises some valid issues & is "stirring the pot"of public discourse; that's a good thing.Biofuel, IMVHO, is only a tiny slice ofSustainability, & at best buys us a little time toadjust to the monumentalities of changing an entireculture, world-wide -- time we desperately need (&don't really have, according to what i hear from thescientific community). At worst, it is a chimera thatcan allow most of us to go on with an unsustainablelife-style while feeling "good and righteous" aboutit.E. Allen C.--- Alan Petrillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:[snip]___
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[Biofuel] Oil AND Ethanol out of Corn

2006-04-13 Thread Bruno M.

Is this the way to better economics in BD and ethanol production?

 From the same corn, they extract first the oil ( for BD production )
and afterwards make ethanol from the starch in it.

But they don't tell what the rest product has for value left as cattle feed;
after this double extraction.

Comments?

grts
Bruno M.

FYI:

Corn Oil Extraction Yields New Benefits for Ethanol Producers

Several ethanol producers have recently placed orders with Veridium
Corporation for the use of a technology that extracts corn oil from
distiller's dried grain, an ethanol by-product. The ethanol plants sell the
extracted corn oil back to Veridium for additional revenue. Veridium, in
turn, sells the corn oil to Mean Green Biofuels, Inc., which is currently
selling the corn oil on the open market, but eventually plans to convert
the corn oil into biodiesel. Veridium has received five orders for its Corn
Oil Extraction Systems, which it installs at no cost in exchange for buying
back the corn oil at below-market costs. The company has installed a system
at an ethanol plant in North Dakota, and plans to install systems at
ethanol plants in Illinois, Minnesota, and Wisconsin later this year.

Veridium estimates that the five Corn Oil Extraction Systems now under
order could produce as much as 9.7 million gallons of corn oil per year,
which the company will sell for more than $1 per gallon. According to the
company, the distiller's dried grain produced by today's ethanol industry
contains roughly 300 million gallons of corn oil, 75 percent of which can
be removed by the extraction process. Once extracted, the corn oil can be
converted gallon for gallon into biodiesel. The company says the corn oil
extraction process also increases ethanol plant efficiencies, since it
reduces the energy required for drying the distiller's grain, which is sold
as cattle feed.
See the   www.veridium.com/news.php  Veridium press releases and the
www.meangreenbiofuels.com/technologies.php?mode=1  description of
the technology on the Mean Green BioFuels Web site.
===


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Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet

May I be so bold as to make my own suggestions to you sir?Brian Protheroe:  I/You, PinballPeter Gabriel:  The first album only, right after leaving Genesis- very eclectic, even has some barbershop quartet.  Everything after that was strictly commercial.On 14 Apr 2006, at 06:26, Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote:find Willis Alan Ramsey.   He  only  made one album and it had his name.  Every song on the  thing is a winner.  My taste in music is eclectic in the extreme. ___
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Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11

>Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he 
>wanted or you would have violence on your hands.
>
>The man was not a saint but he was very good at what he did.  That's 
>why he had to be killed.

And so that proves your point, there's no such thing as peaceful 
protest, it's just a sham?

Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this:

>>>I guess we need
>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>ask: what would Martin Luther King Jr or Ghandi do?
>>
>>Who would Jesus bomb?
>
>The moneylenders in the temple?
>
>>"Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it.
>
>I don't think so.

So what about Gandhi? And indeed Jesus? Let's have a look at the 
global protests since Seattle in 1999, what about them?

>On  14Apr, 2006, at 4:41 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
>
>>>"Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it.
>>>
>>
>>I don't think so. I

In fact why not answer the rest of the post, just for a change? Here it is:

>>>I guess we need
>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>ask: what would Martin Luther King Jr or Ghandi do?
>>
>>Who would Jesus bomb?
>
>The moneylenders in the temple?
>
>>"Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it.
>
>I don't think so. It's always a possibility, but with exceptions the 
>protestors don't seek it, when they say it's a peaceful protest they 
>usually mean it and try hard to prevent it becoming anything else. 
>Violence is often deliberately provoked, often by plants in the 
>crowd, or you just get attacked or shot anyway without any of the 
>niceties. If there's such a promise it might not be the protestors 
>who make it.
>
>>>Peace with justice, D. Mindock
>>
>>Did that ever really exist?
>
>29. King Asoka. Wells, H.G. 1922. A Short History of the World
>http://www.bartleby.com/86/29.html
>
>21. A Kingdom of Agricultural Art in Europe, "Reconstruction by Way 
>of the Soil", G. T. Wrench, 1946
>http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Wrench_Recon/Wrench_Recon_21.html
>
>22. An Historical Reconstruction, "Reconstruction by Way of the 
>Soil", G. T. Wrench, 1946
>http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Wrench_Recon/Wrench_Recon_22.html
>
>There are others.
>
>Anyway, did peace with justice ever not exist? They exist all the 
>time, maybe in most places most of the time.
>
>But you mean on the level of societies, nation states, empires, 
>globally. There are good examples, and they may represent the human 
>norm more than the score-tag of history might indicate - maybe it's 
>what we naturally do if only we can solve the problem of power which 
>has oppressed us for the last 10,000 years and more. We do often 
>solve it, in our communities and beyond. Power is probably a problem 
>of scale, beyond which human affairs cease to be strictly human. 
>History is the tale of the powerful. We'll see about the future. The 
>obstacles to peace and justice are easy to see, especially these 
>days. It's not something to be sceptical about, it's something to 
>insist on.
>
>Great kings is what it took. Now all it needs is the Internet. IMHO.
>
>Best
>
>Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Garrison Keillor on Bush II

2006-04-13 Thread E. C.

Hey, Mike :-)~
   I'm with you on what to do w/the burning shrub of
Texas; I'd add that we send the rest of the PNAC cabal
that's destroying our country with him, and emphasize
the first sentence of your qquote "boys (& girls -
quite a few of them there, too) home", & do that
First!
   And i'm not even a Texan -- but we do have his kid
brother running things here in FL, where the BushCo 2
fiasco started!  Speaking of which -- more is needed
by way of activism than just not voting for them: 
look at what good it did in both elections that the
shrub (i've refused to call him by a stolen title
since 2000) & his cronies engineered.
   BTW -- i'm probably reiterating other list members'
responses; been busy, & still have several hundred
emails to catch up on -- i apologize if i'm being
redundant. 

All best
E. Allen C.

--- Mike McGinness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

-
A quote from the end says:
Let's bring the boys home. Otherwise, let's send this 
   man back to Texas and see what sort of work he is
capable of and let him start making a contribution
to   the world.

However, this Texan would rather see him sent to Iraq
to fight hisown war. We don't need him back in Texas,
and we can't leave him in Washingtoneither. By the way
I voted against the republicans and the Bushes
since1990, so don't blaim me.
Mike McGinness

"D. Mindock" wrote:Garrison Keillor, Tribune Media
Services
 Published March 15, 2006
 Spring arrived in New York last week for
previews,a
   sunny day with chill in the air, but you could
smell mud,
   and with a little imagination you could sort of
smell
   grass. I put on  a gray jacket, instead of
black,and went
   to the opera and saw Verdi's "Luisa Miller,">
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[Biofuel] galvanized tanks

2006-04-13 Thread Andrew Leven




Hi ,
I just finished bubblewashing a 30L batch of bio 
but it is still cloudy.
I have a galvanized tank from an old jet pump setup 
that is ported ideally for plumbing and adding a heating element. I want to use 
it for a clarifying tank but am unsure whether the galvy will react with my bio. 
Anybody have any info on  this?
Andrew Leven
 
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Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet

2006-04-13 Thread Michael Gian



 -Original Message-
From:   mark manchester


My Grandmother was sent to a convent when she was four, and never came back!

Grandpa? A priest?

GASOH,
Michael


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Re: [Biofuel] TAX was Police Check Point - fuel dye test.]

2006-04-13 Thread JJJN

In Montana all fuel that is  used off road or for farming is dyed red 
except aircraft fuels as red fuel is not taxed when purchased. So to 
keep the untaxed stuff off the road they put dye in.  At one time they 
dyed diesel yellow that was taxed - so they could tell if it was being 
diluted with jet fuel (undyed) but that went away for some reason or 
other. (I read this part some where and I am not positive of the 
credibility on the yellow dye)

I have heard all kinds of storys about tax.  The state of Montana 
requires tax on any fuel. (thats what the head of the revenue department 
told me any way) Is there any one that REALLY knows what the Federal 
Tax  rules are concerning the home manufacture of Biodiesel? Any 
accountant types out there??  I hear 400 gallon per quarter or per year 
is exempt???

Ignorance is not bliss (for those folks using it on the road anyway)

Jim

Thomas Kelly wrote:

>Darryl,
> You wrote:
> "Actually, I've never wondered until now if they dye home heating oil 
>as
>well.  Anybody know?"
>
> Answer:Yes they do. HHO is dyed a very deep red color here in the 
>northeast USA.
>Tom
> - Original Message - 
>From: "Darryl McMahon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 2:04 PM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Check Point - fuel dye test.]
>
>
>We see this sort of testing hereabouts as well.  Normally they are
>checking for dyed fuel, which is exactly that.  It's pale red/pink.
>Sometimes called farm gas.  There is an equivalent for diesel for
>off-road use.
>
>It should mean nothing for homebrewers (assuming of course your finished
>fuel isn't red in colour).  If your finished fuel is red (or whatever
>dye colour is used in your vicinity), I recommend you have a good
>explanation ready to go. I'm not sure the sniff test (exhaust or fuel)
>will be sufficient.
>
>Interesting they were only checking diesels.  They check gassers around
>here too.  Somebody steal a tanker of dyed diesel in Eric's
>neighbourhood in the past few days?
>
>Actually, I've never wondered until now if they dye home heating oil as
>well.  Anybody know?
>
>Darryl
>
>Mike Weaver wrote:
>  
>
>>What does this mean for homebrewers?
>>
>>On 4/12/06, *Eric Youngdale* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>I got this in my inbox this morning from someone I work with.  He
>>was on Rt 17 between US 50 and I66.
>>
>>I had an interesting stop at a police checkpoint this
>>morning…the real gun carrying kind too! The signs read "safety
>>check" as I approached it.  All of the work trucks were being
>>pulled over.  They have these 4-5 times per year but I never
>>knew why until today.  Today the officer asked me if my car was
>>a diesel. I told him it was so he asked me to follow the trucks
>>for a "fuel dye test".  When I reached the next officer he told
>>me that they were checking for "farm fuel" to make sure it was
>>properly taxed.  I started to get a little nervous because I am
>>running B5 (although I buy it at a gas station where I hope they
>>are properly taxing me).  The next officer asked me if I would
>>give them permission to check my fuel which I did.  She asked me
>>for my drivers' license and another officer stuck a long skinny
>>plastic tube down in my fuel tank and took a sample.  Once that
>>was done they sent me on my way. I guess they will do the test
>>somewhere else and let me know what they found.  The trucks were
>>getting weighed and stuff but that was not necessary for me.
>>Anyway Eric make sure your paying your taxes on your biodiesel.
>>I think they are going to send me some paper work and I'll let
>>you know what is says when I get it.
>>
>>
>
>
>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Biofuels Movement Is A Scam That Needs To Be Stopped

2006-04-13 Thread E. C.

Hi Alan;
   I mostly just read, here, having very little
expertise in any of the technicalities; however, i
feel compelled to speak up this time.
   This concerned citizen is not an idiot -- seems
misinformed (probably by the MM as an only source (?),
but raises some valid issues & is "stirring the pot"
of public discourse; that's a good thing.
   Biofuel, IMVHO, is only a tiny slice of
Sustainability, & at best buys us a little time to
adjust to the monumentalities of changing an entire
culture, world-wide -- time we desperately need (&
don't really have, according to what i hear from the
scientific community).  At worst, it is a chimera that
can allow most of us to go on with an unsustainable
life-style while feeling "good and righteous" about
it.
E. Allen C.

--- Alan Petrillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/04/08/Opinion/Biofuels_movement_is_.shtml
> 
> Someone please educate this idiot.
> 
> 
> AP
> 
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[Biofuel] What is sustainable?

2006-04-13 Thread Rexis Tree

What is sustainable? There are voices saying Malaysia and Indonesia oil palm plantation are not sustainable, and therefore the biodiesel they made are no point at all. I am very curious, how sustainable could a plantation be? Is there a way of sustainable plantation?

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Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11

Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands.The man was not a saint but he was very good at what he did.  That's why he had to be killed.On  14Apr, 2006, at 4:41 AM, Keith Addison wrote:"Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it.  I don't think so. I ___
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Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet

2006-04-13 Thread Gustl Steiner-Zehender

Hallo Jesse,

Hey  dere!  So  how's by you, eh? Well, I know a fellow named Mark who
used to live in Manchester, Michigan.

Wednesday, 12 April, 2006, 18:00:11, you wrote:

mm> Hi Gustl, Mike,
mm> No  one  ever  answers my posts (except Keith, our hero), so I can
mm> blithely write on this delightfully off-topic topic.

...snip...

mm> Balance  of  idealism  and  practicality  indeed.  But what kid is
mm> practical?  Bringing  up  the  question  of  when is it that human
mm> beings  become  1)  aware  of their mortaility 2) humbled by it 3)
mm> able   to  get  anybody  to  listen  to  them.  I  mean  this  not
mm> morphologically, but as a maturity thing.

mm> Kids  today!  So  accountable!  Like  THEY have to fix everything.
mm> While  listening  to  the  Beatles!!!  (I  have  not criticized my
mm> children  on  this,  incidentally, they are still impressed that I
mm> know all the words.)

Well,  I  just  arrived home and downloaded my mail and see that Keith
has  already  answered you.  The only things I have to add are that it
is the balance which is of primary importance and I like Frank Sinatra
as  well  as Frank Zappa.  Well, I guess I should add that if you want
to hear the best album ever recorded, IMNSHO, try and find Willis Alan
Ramsey.   He  only  made one album and it had his name.  Every song on
the  thing is a winner.  My taste in music is eclectic in the extreme.
We  once  had  to  write an essay on our favorite type of music and it
wouldn't  have  taken me an essay to tell that...good music.  You know
it  when  you  hear  it  even if you don't understand the language the
words  are in or recognize the instruments which are being played. ;o)

Hope  you get some other answers brother.  I can't imagine Keith being
the only one to answer any post on this list.  hahaha

Happy Happy,

Gustl
-- 
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.

We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails.

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, 
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, 
without signposts.  
C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, 
daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht 
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.  
George Carlin

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth



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Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11

>On 13 Apr 2006, at 10:18, D. Mindock wrote:
>
>>A revolution is what we need here. Peaceful, of course.
>>
>
>Well, that won't happen.
>
>Would somebody PLEASE get me my orbiting nuke platform?  I need to 
>make some changes here.
>
>>I guess we need
>>
>>to
>>
>>ask: what would Martin Luther King Jr or Ghandi do?
>
>Who would Jesus bomb?

The moneylenders in the temple?

>"Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it.

I don't think so. It's always a possibility, but with exceptions the 
protestors don't seek it, when they say it's a peaceful protest they 
usually mean it and try hard to prevent it becoming anything else. 
Violence is often deliberately provoked, often by plants in the 
crowd, or you just get attacked or shot anyway without any of the 
niceties. If there's such a promise it might not be the protestors 
who make it.

>>Peace with justice, D. Mindock
>
>Did that ever really exist?

29. King Asoka. Wells, H.G. 1922. A Short History of the World
http://www.bartleby.com/86/29.html

21. A Kingdom of Agricultural Art in Europe, "Reconstruction by Way 
of the Soil", G. T. Wrench, 1946
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Wrench_Recon/Wrench_Recon_21.html

22. An Historical Reconstruction, "Reconstruction by Way of the 
Soil", G. T. Wrench, 1946
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Wrench_Recon/Wrench_Recon_22.html

There are others.

Anyway, did peace with justice ever not exist? They exist all the 
time, maybe in most places most of the time.

But you mean on the level of societies, nation states, empires, 
globally. There are good examples, and they may represent the human 
norm more than the score-tag of history might indicate - maybe it's 
what we naturally do if only we can solve the problem of power which 
has oppressed us for the last 10,000 years and more. We do often 
solve it, in our communities and beyond. Power is probably a problem 
of scale, beyond which human affairs cease to be strictly human. 
History is the tale of the powerful. We'll see about the future. The 
obstacles to peace and justice are easy to see, especially these 
days. It's not something to be sceptical about, it's something to 
insist on.

Great kings is what it took. Now all it needs is the Internet. IMHO.

Best

Keith

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Re: [Biofuel] sustainable biodiesel from Casto : Big is not beautiful, small is more sustainable

>
>
>  By using one step  simultaneous  extraction and
> >esterification , the patented process use crushed seeds  to make
> >four products , the BioD , the glycerol , the protein, carbohydrate
> >that seem to deintoxicated for animal feed  is now being   scaled up
> >to big pilot plant.
>
>
>
>I interpreted this to mean that the crushed seeds are subjected to the
>alkali catalyst/methanol hence the seedcake is exposed to the reaction.
>  I've seen papers other papers discuss simultaneous extraction/reaction
>with soya bean flakes. the problem was that much more methanol is need
>to extract the oil during the processing into biodiesel, partly due to
>the moisture content of the beans.

I'm sure you're right Bob, I have several of those papers. Good 
explanation, sorry I didn't get it first time. I was looking at other 
information to check where the ricin was. Thanks!

Keith

>Keith Addison wrote:
> >> Ricin is a protein which would be denatured by the reaction conditions.
> >>  Denaturation just means changing the shape of the protein, thus
> >> inactivating it.   Same as hard boiling an egg more or less.
> >
> > Thanks Bob. But I think the ricin doesn't get into the oil, it's in
> > the husk, and thus in the seedcake.
> >
> > I see James Duke says: "Although it is highly toxic due to the ricin,
> > a method of detoxicating the meal has now been found, so that it can
> > safely be fed to livestock."
> > Ricinus communis, "Handbook of Energy Crops", James A. Duke, 1983
> > http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Ricinus_communis.html
> >
> > Maybe they just hard-boil the seedcake.
> >
> > 
> >
> > Re the high viscosity:
> >
>    Brazil has 20 years of good research reports about castor oil use
>  as biofuel , which we have the acess .One main problem with castor
>  oil BioD is the viscosity that can be easily solved.
> >>> That seems to be the main problem. Castor oil is 100 times more
> >>> viscous than petro-diesel. Castor oil biodiesel is less viscous than
> >>> the straight oil, but several references say it is still higher than
> >>> the national standards specification limits. If there is an easy way
> >>> to make it less viscous or to solve the problem that would be
> >>> valuable to know.
> >>>
> >>> Do you have any further information on this?
> >>>
> >>> This is quite interesting on how castor oil works as a lubricant and
> >>> why it's different to other oils:
> >>> http://www.georgiacombat.com/CASTOR_OIL.htm
> >>> CASTOR OIL
> >
> > Castor oil has good lubricity, I wonder if castor oil biodiesel have
> > better lubricity than others. Maybe that could offset the viscosity
> > problem. More and more places are following the French and specifying
> > biodiesel as a lubrication additive in LS diesel fuel. If it had
> > better lubricity you'd need to use less, and the high viscosity
> > wouldn't matter at such a low percentage. Which is where I grind to a
> > halt because the difference between lubricity and viscosity isn't
> > that clear, or at least not to me, especially when you add high
> > temperatures. Anyone know better?
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Keith
> >
> > 


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Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accusesU.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11

>Sell all your shares. Ditch the lot. remove the money from your bank.
>
>Buy up gold bars or stocks in gold.
>
>It is the only universally tradable currency, not to mention the outcome?
>
>Oh it would hurt, it would involve a total re-think.
>
>Doug

It's sound advice Doug. It's been sound advice for thousands of 
years. The value of gold has hardly changed aside from little 
temporary fits and starts. It always buys the same amount of bread, 
chickens, pigs, wives, housing, land and politicians.

But I think there are some of us who're giggling a little, me among 
them. It's getting the shares and money in the bank in the first 
place that would involve a total re-think.

I used to have some gold. At the refineries where they process the 
ore at the mines on the Reef it doesn't (or didn't) come put in the 
familiar ingots that you can't pick up with one hand or you can have 
it, that comes later. They produce it in a thin, endless strip like 
stick solder. I had about two inches of it that I kept in my pocket. 
A miner gave it to me. There was plenty more of it he said, and the 
price was good. The official price was still US$35 an ounce, it had 
been that way for 35 years. Some of my friends were talking about it, 
we all agreed we should buy a large stash of the stuff and horde it. 
Just talk, we never did it, we were broke all the time anyway. A few 
months later the price went up to $250 an ounce. :-(

Can't remember what happened to the two inches of gold, but it's not 
in my pocket anymore. Actually I don't like gold, it's kind of 
garish. Silver's cool.

Best

Keith



>- Original Message -
>From: "D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:53 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group
>accusesU.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
>
>
> >
> > Hi Gary,
> >
> >
> > >>On 13 Apr 2006, at 10:18, D. Mindock wrote:
> >
> >
> > >>A revolution is what we need here. Peaceful, of course.
> >
> >
> >
> > >Well, that won't happen.
> >
> > Maybe, we got to keep putting the thought out into the aether. Everything
> > begins with a thought. Repeated and dwelled on, it manifests itself. I
>like
> > the
> > word "meme". A meme is like a virus, hard to kill, and spreads easily.
> > Repugs
> > are constantly throwing memes out to make go at each other's throats. Ex.,
> > Steve and Adam's marriage is a threat to mine
> > A child needs a dad and a mom, not two moms or two dads
> > My idea is based on the bible. Yours, based on science, must be wrong
> > Preemptive War is necessary to protect us from terrorists
> > Our war in Iraq allows us to spread democracy there and throughout the
> > mid-East.
> > All pregnant women (or girls) must give birth
> > Discrimination against gays is morally right since they are practicing
> > immoral acts.
> > We cannot give up on Iraq. It would dishonor all those who've given their
> > lives.
> > Etc.
> >
> >
> > >Would somebody PLEASE get me my orbiting nuke platform?  I need to make
> > >some changes here.
> >
> > Nothing so drastic. But the intensity and power of the idea of revolution
> > has to grow till it
> > bursts forth.
> >
> >
> > >>I guess we need to
> > >>ask: what would Martin Luther King Jr or Ghandi do?
> >
> >
> > >Who would Jesus bomb?
> > >"Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it.
> >
> > True. Nowadays the police are out in strength. They really manhandled the
> > crowd down in
> > Florida protesting the talks on CAFTA. Little old ladies were thrown to
>the
> > ground. It was
> > the ugly face of our new police state. Bush loves this control of
> > protesters.
> >
> >
> > >>Peace with justice, D. Mindock
> >
> >
> > >Did that ever really exist?
> >
> > Not in the U$A. We must work, take action, to make it happen. It won't
> > happen in the Congress,
> > which is largely influenced by corporate interests. Somehow, we have to
> > reduce the influence
> > of the moneyed special interests so that constutient interests handily
> > prevail. Election reform
> > is mandatory if this is ever going to happen. We got to get Big Money out
>of
> > politics, especially
> > in candidate selection. There are many to-the-bone decent candidates but
> > they are drowned out
> > in the sea of corporate influence sellers. Unless you can raise 40 million
> > dollars, you'll never get
> > heard. Bush had 200 million dollars for the 2004 election, maybe more.
>(And
> > he still ended up
> > needing to steal it.)
> >
> > Peace with justice, D. Mindock


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[Biofuel] Ottawa plan hacks green programs

2006-04-13 Thread Darryl McMahon

"Your tax dollars at work"
or
"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you".

I heard from another source that producing a barrel of oil from the
Canadian oil sands produces about 3 times as much greenhouse gases than
production from conventional sources. (Also uses a lot of ground
water.) Might explain why the Alberta-based Prime Minister and
Environment Minister are cool to meeting Canadian Kyoto commitments.
The U.S. *needs* that oil.

I'm not convinced the One Tonne Challenge program was having much
beneficial impact, but losing the funding will make it tough to develop
a more effective program. (It was visible, but most regular folks I
spoke with did not take it seriously.) I won't be holding my breath
waiting for the new and improved Canadian plan for GHG emissions
reductions (Conservative campaign promise). In reality, probably no
worse than the previous administration on this file, just more
in-your-face about it.

As usual, it's up to us to make the world we want.

Darryl

===

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060413.wxclimate13/BNStory/National/home

Ottawa plan hacks green programs
MARTIN MITTELSTAEDT AND MICHAEL DEN TANDT

The new Conservative government has decided to slash spending on
Environment Canada programs designed to fight global warming by 80 per
cent, and wants cuts of 40 per cent in the budgets devoted to climate
change at other ministries, according to cabinet documents obtained by
The Globe and Mail.

The documents also say that the Conservatives' campaign promise of tax
breaks for transit passes would cost up to $2-billion over five years,
but would result in an insignificant cut in greenhouse-gas emissions
because the incentives are expected to spur only a small increase in the
number of people willing to trade using cars for buses and subways.

The section of the documents on the budget cuts, written by an
unidentified government official after a cabinet meeting in late March
that approved the reductions, also said the Tories want to try to claw
back $260-million the Liberals had pledged to the United Nations to fund
its international climate-change programs.

Federal funding for wind power, considered by environmentalists to be
one of the cleanest new energy sources, "is also uncertain," the
documents said.

Ryan Sparrow, a spokesman for Environment Minister Rona Ambrose, refused
to confirm or deny the details in the leak, and said the government
hasn't finalized its decisions on climate change.

"Once there is an announcement to be made, we'll make one," Mr. Sparrow
said.

The documents were obtained by the opposition Liberals and bolster
previous reports that large-scale cuts have been under way in
climate-change programs, such as the highly visible One Tonne Challenge,
which had much of its funding abruptly axed without public announcement
in late March.

The Tories have indicated that they are ambivalent about the Kyoto
Protocol to fight climate change, planning to neither pull out of the
treaty nor meet its emission-reduction targets.

According to the documents, the Tories have yet to develop their unique
Canadian-based set of actions.

"No process has been put in place to determine next steps on climate
change or to develop the new 'made in Canada' climate plan," the
documents said.

The documents said that while the Tories are trying to save money by
cutting the programs designed to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions, they
won't cut government staff positions, so most of the money earmarked for
climate change will be going to salaries for bureaucrats.

"Only $375-million was approved for climate spending, with most of the
dollars covering staff salaries until the new government determines next
steps.

"What is clear is that staff will have little to do and that they will
have no budgets to spend over the next year and that more cuts are coming."

According to the documents, the programs are being eliminated to help
fund tax cuts, including the GST reduction the Tories pledged during the
election, and to fund the transit-pass scheme.

The global-warming programs are being eliminated even though a Treasury
Board review of government spending found that the vast majority of 166
such programs run by Ottawa were considered cost effective.

The review, which was begun by the Liberals and completed last fall,
found only 22 programs were ineffective. The Treasury Board information
was supposed to be used to reallocate funding from programs that weren't
working to those that were achieving better results.

The Liberals did not deal with the review before the election, and many
federal initiatives didn't have budget allocations after March 31, the
end of the government's fiscal year.

Environmentalists reacted angrily to the cuts. John Bennet

Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet

2006-04-13 Thread mark manchester

Hi Keith!

> From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 22:40:07 +0900
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet
> 
> Hi Jesse
> 
>> Hi Gustl, Mike,
>> No one ever answers my posts (except Keith, our hero),
> 
> Heavens, Jesse, surely you can do better than that, I'm not even my hero! LOL!
> 
>> so I can blithely
>> write on this delightfully off-topic topic.
> 
> (Off-topic??? Grrr!) Sure, just as long as you're blithe about it.

I see your Grrr!  What, the care and future of the planet is not off-topic,
eh?  Good point.  I guess I was confining my thinking to the Title.
> 
>>> From: Gustl Steiner-Zehender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>> Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 17:41:59 -0400
>>> To: Mike Weaver 
>>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet
>>> 
>>> Hallo Mike,
>>> 
>>> Friday, 07 April, 2006, 20:04:32, you wrote:
>>> 
>>> MW> Uh, Yeah. Dude.
>>> 
>>> MW> We  had  all  these  great ideas, then we got really stoned and it
>>> MW> drifted away.
>>> 
>>> Actually  brother, money entered the picture and the better portion of
>>> us  just  melded into the system.  Seems like somehow folks just never
>>> learned  to  get  the right balance of idealism and practicality.  And
>>> with all the "isms" the "we" became exclusionary rather than inclusive
>>> and  we  started  down that gradual slope.  It really is a question of
>>> balance isn't it?
>> 
>> Balance of idealism and practicality indeed.  But what kid is practical?
>> Bringing up the question of when is it that human beings become 1) aware of
>> their mortaility  2) humbled by it  3) able to get anybody to listen to
>> them.
> 
> Okay, I'll try, though how would I know...
> 
> When it's too late? Or just in time maybe.

This is IMHE the prevailing feeling among very many 20-somethings.  A sort
of terrible urgency, bordering on despair.
> 
> This is about the Sixties. "Don't trust anyone over 30!" they used to
> say in the Sixties. LOL!
> 
> But it's a lot easier to get taken seriously after you're 30,
> suddenly you find you don't have to bother about it much anymore.
> Hopefully there's still something left by then. You know the old
> saying: If you're not a liberal when you're 25 there's something
> wrong with you; if you're still a liberal when you're 35 there's
> something wrong with you. But that's the
> if-you-can't-beat-them-join-them school of being taken seriously.

Yes, the hard line.

> Psychologists have said 80% or something of people don't show any
> significant further character development after the age of 25. So
> maybe your answer is 25. But idealism? They want to change the world?
> Not 25 then, not if you're talking of the creative minority. But
> who'd want to be part of the creative minority anyway? Ahead of their
> time, out of step with everyone else, and totally essential. Yuk. And
> never taken seriously. Every peasant village has its innovator
> farmer, he tinkers with stuff, tries it this way and that way and
> finds some better answers, but everyone else laughs at him. But it
> turns out that when their sons grow up and take over they do it the
> tinker's way, and when someone new suggests something different they
> say Naah, you're nuts, this is the way our grandfathers and
> great-grandfathers always did it and it's good enough for us.

Why do people forget that?  My mother was herself arrested in a political
demonstration, yet is deeply horrified that my daughter would expose herself
to the possibility.  Okay, I guess she sees it as a low point in her
political career.
> 
> When my friends and I started turning about 50 we started saying
> things like this, with some dismay: "But the more I learn the less I
> know!" LOL! At least it's a bit humble. A guy I worked for once told
> me I'm the sort of person who never stops learning, which kind of
> startled me at the time. He wasn't being nice, he was angry with me.
> With any luck I'll go on knowing less and less until finally I know
> nothing at all - nirvana! It makes you think of the 80% who stop at
> 25, maybe it's learning that they stop doing. Well, I have no
> argument with them at all, and it doesn't have to stop them growing
> old and wise, and graceful, it seeps in by osmosis anyway.

Hope so.
> 
> Kids, I guess if you just love them it'll all turn out the way it
> should, imsh'allah. But loving them can be really uphill work, they
> can sure be hard to like at times. It probably doesn't matter though
> because the chemo-psychological effects or whatever of the act of
> having them in the first place turns their parents permanently
> somewhat nuts so they go right on loving them anyway no matter what,
> fool me twice doesn't count. It has to work like that or the species
> would have snuffed it at square two, so nature in her infinite wisdom
> provides. 

Yup, a world of heartache.  Lots of laughs too

Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet

"Just as long as nobody saves us from Frank Zappa." Yes! Brilliant! I'm liking this thread. :-) Mike"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." - Frank Zappa Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Hi Jesse>Hi Gustl, Mike,>No one ever answers my posts (except Keith, our hero),Heavens,
Jesse, surely you can do better than that, I'm not even my hero! LOL!>so I can blithely>write on this delightfully off-topic topic.(Off-topic??? Grrr!) Sure, just as long as you're blithe about it.> > From: Gustl Steiner-Zehender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 17:41:59 -0400> > To: Mike Weaver > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet> >> > Hallo Mike,> >> > Friday, 07 April, 2006, 20:04:32, you wrote:> >> > MW> Uh, Yeah. Dude.> >> > MW> We had all these great ideas, then we got really stoned and it> > MW> drifted away.> >> > Actually brother, money entered the picture and the better portion of> > us just melded into the system. Seems like somehow folks just
never> > learned to get the right balance of idealism and practicality. And> > with all the "isms" the "we" became exclusionary rather than inclusive> > and we started down that gradual slope. It really is a question of> > balance isn't it?>>Balance of idealism and practicality indeed. But what kid is practical?>Bringing up the question of when is it that human beings become 1) aware of>their mortaility 2) humbled by it 3) able to get anybody to listen to>them.Okay, I'll try, though how would I know...When it's too late? Or just in time maybe.This is about the Sixties. "Don't trust anyone over 30!" they used to say in the Sixties. LOL!But it's a lot easier to get taken seriously after you're 30, suddenly you find you don't have to bother about it much anymore. Hopefully there's still something left by then. You know the old saying: If you're not a
liberal when you're 25 there's something wrong with you; if you're still a liberal when you're 35 there's something wrong with you. But that's the if-you-can't-beat-them-join-them school of being taken seriously. Psychologists have said 80% or something of people don't show any significant further character development after the age of 25. So maybe your answer is 25. But idealism? They want to change the world? Not 25 then, not if you're talking of the creative minority. But who'd want to be part of the creative minority anyway? Ahead of their time, out of step with everyone else, and totally essential. Yuk. And never taken seriously. Every peasant village has its innovator farmer, he tinkers with stuff, tries it this way and that way and finds some better answers, but everyone else laughs at him. But it turns out that when their sons grow up and take over they do it the tinker's way, and when someone new suggests
something different they say Naah, you're nuts, this is the way our grandfathers and great-grandfathers always did it and it's good enough for us.When my friends and I started turning about 50 we started saying things like this, with some dismay: "But the more I learn the less I know!" LOL! At least it's a bit humble. A guy I worked for once told me I'm the sort of person who never stops learning, which kind of startled me at the time. He wasn't being nice, he was angry with me. With any luck I'll go on knowing less and less until finally I know nothing at all - nirvana! It makes you think of the 80% who stop at 25, maybe it's learning that they stop doing. Well, I have no argument with them at all, and it doesn't have to stop them growing old and wise, and graceful, it seeps in by osmosis anyway.Kids, I guess if you just love them it'll all turn out the way it should, imsh'allah. But loving them can be really
uphill work, they can sure be hard to like at times. It probably doesn't matter though because the chemo-psychological effects or whatever of the act of having them in the first place turns their parents permanently somewhat nuts so they go right on loving them anyway no matter what, fool me twice doesn't count. It has to work like that or the species would have snuffed it at square two, so nature in her infinite wisdom provides. Well, thanks but no thanks nature. Or was it Darwin. FWIW, from someone who's been one and determinedly avoided having any ever since. Not that I don't like them, of course I like them. But when they're being unlikeable I don't have to be there, among other advantages. They say people who have children and people who don't have children always feel sorry for each other. I think that's really funny!Kahlil Gibran, also FWIW, wrote that children are the arrows of the future, you can give
them your love but not your thoughts, they have thoughts of their own. Or words to that effect. Whatever, yo

Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Imagine

The Fiddle and The Drum By Joni Mitchell (excerpt) And so once again Oh, America my friend And so once again You are fighting us all And when we ask you why You raise your sticks and cry and we fall Oh, my friend How did you come To trade the fiddle for the drum "D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Imagine
John Lennon
Imagine theres no heaven.
Its easy if you try.
No hell below us,
Above only sky.
Imagine all the people
Living for today.
Imagine theres no countries.
It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for,
And no religion too.
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace.
You say I am a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one.
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.
Imagine no possessions.
I wonder if you can.
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man.
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world.
You may say I am a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one.
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.___
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Re: [Biofuel] Revolution!? [was] BYU professor's group accuses...

A revolution!?     Canada should be watching the Mexican immigration situation unfolding in the US for two reasons.     First, the US is being invaded by a foreign army. This army is especially hard working and socially more aware and educated then the the people they are invading. Most important, their weaponry is so sophisticated, that it does not have a single moving part, is fueled (mostly) by beans, rice and vegetables and is highly compatible with it's surroundings. The mission of the invader is to induce social change and build a popular consensus with which to battle a plague of manufactured consent.     Second, if the indigenous population (a relative term) insists on having a paternal government which is exempt from social criticism or seen as all-knowing (especially during war time), Canada may see an exodus of stupid white men entering their country from the
 South. They will deny that they are seeking exile and insist that they are simply moving to the next State.     Those who find themselves in Quebec will be especially confused.     :-)     Mikelres1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Sell all your shares. Ditch the lot. remove the money from your bank.Buy up gold bars or stocks in gold.It is the only universally tradable currency, not to mention the outcome?Oh it would hurt, it would involve a total re-think.Doug- Original Message - From: "D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:53 AMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's groupaccusesU.S.officialsoflyingabout
 9/11>> Hi Gary,>>> >>On 13 Apr 2006, at 10:18, D. Mindock wrote:>>> >>A revolution is what we need here. Peaceful, of course. >Well, that won't happen.>> Maybe, we got to keep putting the thought out into the aether. Everything> begins with a thought. Repeated and dwelled on, it manifests itself. Ilike> the> word "meme". A meme is like a virus, hard to kill, and spreads easily.> Repugs> are constantly throwing memes out to make go at each other's throats. Ex.,> Steve and Adam's marriage is a threat to mine> A child needs a dad and a mom, not two moms or two dads> My idea is based on the bible. Yours, based on science, must be wrong> Preemptive War is necessary to protect us from terrorists> Our war in Iraq allows us to spread democracy there and throughout the>
 mid-East.> All pregnant women (or girls) must give birth> Discrimination against gays is morally right since they are practicing> immoral acts.> We cannot give up on Iraq. It would dishonor all those who've given their> lives.> Etc.>>> >Would somebody PLEASE get me my orbiting nuke platform? I need to make> >some changes here.>> Nothing so drastic. But the intensity and power of the idea of revolution> has to grow till it> bursts forth.>>> >>I guess we need to> >>ask: what would Martin Luther King Jr or Ghandi do?>>> >Who would Jesus bomb?> >"Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it.>> True. Nowadays the police are out in strength. They really manhandled the> crowd down in> Florida protesting the talks on CAFTA. Little old ladies were thrown
 tothe> ground. It was> the ugly face of our new police state. Bush loves this control of> protesters.>>> >>Peace with justice, D. Mindock>>> >Did that ever really exist?>> Not in the U$A. We must work, take action, to make it happen. It won't> happen in the Congress,> which is largely influenced by corporate interests. Somehow, we have to> reduce the influence> of the moneyed special interests so that constutient interests handily> prevail. Election reform> is mandatory if this is ever going to happen. We got to get Big Money outof> politics, especially> in candidate selection. There are many to-the-bone decent candidates but> they are drowned out> in the sea of corporate influence sellers. Unless you can raise 40 million> dollars, you'll never get> heard. Bush had 200 million dollars for the 2004
 election, maybe more.(And> he still ended up> needing to steal it.)>> Peace with justice, D. Mindock  [snip]___
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Re: [Biofuel] sustainable biodiesel from Casto : Big is not beautiful, small is more sustainable

2006-04-13 Thread bob allen



  By using one step  simultaneous  extraction and
 >esterification , the patented process use crushed seeds  to make
 >four products , the BioD , the glycerol , the protein, carbohydrate
 >that seem to deintoxicated for animal feed  is now being   scaled up
 >to big pilot plant.



I interpreted this to mean that the crushed seeds are subjected to the 
alkali catalyst/methanol hence the seedcake is exposed to the reaction. 
  I've seen papers other papers discuss simultaneous extraction/reaction 
with soya bean flakes. the problem was that much more methanol is need 
to extract the oil during the processing into biodiesel, partly due to 
the moisture content of the beans.



Keith Addison wrote:
>> Ricin is a protein which would be denatured by the reaction conditions.
>>  Denaturation just means changing the shape of the protein, thus
>> inactivating it.   Same as hard boiling an egg more or less.
> 
> Thanks Bob. But I think the ricin doesn't get into the oil, it's in 
> the husk, and thus in the seedcake.
> 
> I see James Duke says: "Although it is highly toxic due to the ricin, 
> a method of detoxicating the meal has now been found, so that it can 
> safely be fed to livestock."
> Ricinus communis, "Handbook of Energy Crops", James A. Duke, 1983
> http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Ricinus_communis.html
> 
> Maybe they just hard-boil the seedcake.
> 
> 
> 
> Re the high viscosity:
> 
   Brazil has 20 years of good research reports about castor oil use
 as biofuel , which we have the acess .One main problem with castor
 oil BioD is the viscosity that can be easily solved.
>>> That seems to be the main problem. Castor oil is 100 times more
>>> viscous than petro-diesel. Castor oil biodiesel is less viscous than
>>> the straight oil, but several references say it is still higher than
>>> the national standards specification limits. If there is an easy way
>>> to make it less viscous or to solve the problem that would be
>>> valuable to know.
>>>
>>> Do you have any further information on this?
>>>
>>> This is quite interesting on how castor oil works as a lubricant and
>>> why it's different to other oils:
>>> http://www.georgiacombat.com/CASTOR_OIL.htm
>>> CASTOR OIL
> 
> Castor oil has good lubricity, I wonder if castor oil biodiesel have 
> better lubricity than others. Maybe that could offset the viscosity 
> problem. More and more places are following the French and specifying 
> biodiesel as a lubrication additive in LS diesel fuel. If it had 
> better lubricity you'd need to use less, and the high viscosity 
> wouldn't matter at such a low percentage. Which is where I grind to a 
> halt because the difference between lubricity and viscosity isn't 
> that clear, or at least not to me, especially when you add high 
> temperatures. Anyone know better?
> 
> Best
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
> 
> 
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet

Hi Jesse

>Hi Gustl, Mike,
>No one ever answers my posts (except Keith, our hero),

Heavens, Jesse, surely you can do better than that, I'm not even my hero! LOL!

>so I can blithely
>write on this delightfully off-topic topic.

(Off-topic??? Grrr!) Sure, just as long as you're blithe about it.

> > From: Gustl Steiner-Zehender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 17:41:59 -0400
> > To: Mike Weaver 
> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet
> >
> > Hallo Mike,
> >
> > Friday, 07 April, 2006, 20:04:32, you wrote:
> >
> > MW> Uh, Yeah. Dude.
> >
> > MW> We  had  all  these  great ideas, then we got really stoned and it
> > MW> drifted away.
> >
> > Actually  brother, money entered the picture and the better portion of
> > us  just  melded into the system.  Seems like somehow folks just never
> > learned  to  get  the right balance of idealism and practicality.  And
> > with all the "isms" the "we" became exclusionary rather than inclusive
> > and  we  started  down that gradual slope.  It really is a question of
> > balance isn't it?
>
>Balance of idealism and practicality indeed.  But what kid is practical?
>Bringing up the question of when is it that human beings become 1) aware of
>their mortaility  2) humbled by it  3) able to get anybody to listen to
>them.

Okay, I'll try, though how would I know...

When it's too late? Or just in time maybe.

This is about the Sixties. "Don't trust anyone over 30!" they used to 
say in the Sixties. LOL!

But it's a lot easier to get taken seriously after you're 30, 
suddenly you find you don't have to bother about it much anymore. 
Hopefully there's still something left by then. You know the old 
saying: If you're not a liberal when you're 25 there's something 
wrong with you; if you're still a liberal when you're 35 there's 
something wrong with you. But that's the 
if-you-can't-beat-them-join-them school of being taken seriously. 
Psychologists have said 80% or something of people don't show any 
significant further character development after the age of 25. So 
maybe your answer is 25. But idealism? They want to change the world? 
Not 25 then, not if you're talking of the creative minority. But 
who'd want to be part of the creative minority anyway? Ahead of their 
time, out of step with everyone else, and totally essential. Yuk. And 
never taken seriously. Every peasant village has its innovator 
farmer, he tinkers with stuff, tries it this way and that way and 
finds some better answers, but everyone else laughs at him. But it 
turns out that when their sons grow up and take over they do it the 
tinker's way, and when someone new suggests something different they 
say Naah, you're nuts, this is the way our grandfathers and 
great-grandfathers always did it and it's good enough for us.

When my friends and I started turning about 50 we started saying 
things like this, with some dismay: "But the more I learn the less I 
know!" LOL! At least it's a bit humble. A guy I worked for once told 
me I'm the sort of person who never stops learning, which kind of 
startled me at the time. He wasn't being nice, he was angry with me. 
With any luck I'll go on knowing less and less until finally I know 
nothing at all - nirvana! It makes you think of the 80% who stop at 
25, maybe it's learning that they stop doing. Well, I have no 
argument with them at all, and it doesn't have to stop them growing 
old and wise, and graceful, it seeps in by osmosis anyway.

Kids, I guess if you just love them it'll all turn out the way it 
should, imsh'allah. But loving them can be really uphill work, they 
can sure be hard to like at times. It probably doesn't matter though 
because the chemo-psychological effects or whatever of the act of 
having them in the first place turns their parents permanently 
somewhat nuts so they go right on loving them anyway no matter what, 
fool me twice doesn't count. It has to work like that or the species 
would have snuffed it at square two, so nature in her infinite wisdom 
provides. Well, thanks but no thanks nature. Or was it Darwin. FWIW, 
from someone who's been one and determinedly avoided having any ever 
since. Not that I don't like them, of course I like them. But when 
they're being unlikeable I don't have to be there, among other 
advantages. They say people who have children and people who don't 
have children always feel sorry for each other. I think that's really 
funny!

Kahlil Gibran, also FWIW, wrote that children are the arrows of the 
future, you can give them your love but not your thoughts, they have 
thoughts of their own. Or words to that effect. Whatever, youth is 
definitely wasted on them. :-)

>I mean this not morphologically, but as a maturity thing.
>
>Kids today!  So accountable!  Like THEY have to fix everything.  While
>listening to the Beatles!!!

LOL! There's hope.

>(I have not criticized my children on this,
>incidentally, they are still impressed

Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: Re: [DCBiodieselcoop] Police Check Point - fuel dye test.]

(IMO) this speaks to how one should advocate biofuels. Although there is risk associated with voicing any opinion that diverges from "conventional wisdom", I'd avoid big bumper stickers that say "This vehicle runs on vegetable oil" (for example).     I find that simple conversations in mixed company spreads the word more effectively anyway.     Mike Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:*MY* Biodiesel is a lovely green color...Paddy O'WeaverKeith Addison wrote:>>Howdy Hakan, the problem is my biodiesel is red :( , if I use a simple>>base catalyzed transesterification. My current source of wvo is from>>chicken processing plants, which apparently use red palm oil in the>>fryers. It is full
 of beta-carotene and is quite red. Interestingly if>>I use an acid/base method, the red fades to the usual dark straw color.>> The beta-carotene doesn't survive acidic conditions.>> What happens to the red if you use acid in the wash Bob? Eg:>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg60208.html>Re: [Biofuel] Compressed air wash>>Best>>Keith  [snip]___
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Re: [Biofuel] sustainable biodiesel from Casto : Big is not beautiful, small is more sustainable

>Ricin is a protein which would be denatured by the reaction conditions.
>  Denaturation just means changing the shape of the protein, thus
>inactivating it.   Same as hard boiling an egg more or less.

Thanks Bob. But I think the ricin doesn't get into the oil, it's in 
the husk, and thus in the seedcake.

I see James Duke says: "Although it is highly toxic due to the ricin, 
a method of detoxicating the meal has now been found, so that it can 
safely be fed to livestock."
Ricinus communis, "Handbook of Energy Crops", James A. Duke, 1983
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Ricinus_communis.html

Maybe they just hard-boil the seedcake.



Re the high viscosity:

> >>   Brazil has 20 years of good research reports about castor oil use
> >> as biofuel , which we have the acess .One main problem with castor
> >> oil BioD is the viscosity that can be easily solved.
> >
> > That seems to be the main problem. Castor oil is 100 times more
> > viscous than petro-diesel. Castor oil biodiesel is less viscous than
> > the straight oil, but several references say it is still higher than
> > the national standards specification limits. If there is an easy way
> > to make it less viscous or to solve the problem that would be
> > valuable to know.
> >
> > Do you have any further information on this?
> >
> > This is quite interesting on how castor oil works as a lubricant and
> > why it's different to other oils:
> > http://www.georgiacombat.com/CASTOR_OIL.htm
> > CASTOR OIL

Castor oil has good lubricity, I wonder if castor oil biodiesel have 
better lubricity than others. Maybe that could offset the viscosity 
problem. More and more places are following the French and specifying 
biodiesel as a lubrication additive in LS diesel fuel. If it had 
better lubricity you'd need to use less, and the high viscosity 
wouldn't matter at such a low percentage. Which is where I grind to a 
halt because the difference between lubricity and viscosity isn't 
that clear, or at least not to me, especially when you add high 
temperatures. Anyone know better?

Best

Keith



 
 


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Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: Re: [DCBiodieselcoop] Police Check Point - fuel dye test.]

2006-04-13 Thread Mike Weaver

*MY* Biodiesel is a lovely green color...

Paddy O'Weaver

Keith Addison wrote:

>>Howdy Hakan, the problem is my biodiesel is red :( , if I use a simple
>>base catalyzed transesterification.  My current source of wvo is from
>>chicken processing plants, which apparently use red palm oil in the
>>fryers.  It is full of beta-carotene and is quite red.  Interestingly if
>>I use an acid/base method, the red fades to the usual dark straw color.
>> The beta-carotene doesn't survive acidic conditions.
>>
>>
>
>What happens to the red if you use acid in the wash Bob? Eg:
>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg60208.html
>Re: [Biofuel] Compressed air wash
>
>Best
>
>Keith
>
>
>  
>
>>Hakan Falk wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mike,
>>>
>>>They are checking if the fuel is colored or
>>>uncolored, the difference between taxed and
>>>untaxed farm fuel. I do not remember, but I think
>>>it is the farm fuel that is colored, in which
>>>case it will be no problems with biodiesel as long it is not colored red.
>>>
>>>Hakan
>>>
>>>
>>>At 19:29 12/04/2006, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
What does this mean for homebrewers?

On 4/12/06, *Eric Youngdale* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

I got this in my inbox this morning from someone I work with.  He
was on Rt 17 between US 50 and I66.

I had an interesting stop at a police checkpoint this
morningÖthe real gun carrying kind too! The signs read "safety
check" as I approached it.  All of the work trucks were being
pulled over.  They have these 4-5 times per year but I never
knew why until today.  Today the officer asked me if my car was
a diesel. I told him it was so he asked me to follow the trucks
for a "fuel dye test".  When I reached the next officer he told
me that they were checking for "farm fuel" to make sure it was
properly taxed.  I started to get a little nervous because I am
running B5 (although I buy it at a gas station where I hope they
are properly taxing me).  The next officer asked me if I would
give them permission to check my fuel which I did.  She asked me
for my drivers' license and another officer stuck a long skinny
plastic tube down in my fuel tank and took a sample.  Once that
was done they sent me on my way. I guess they will do the test
somewhere else and let me know what they found.  The trucks were
getting weighed and stuff but that was not necessary for me.
Anyway Eric make sure your paying your taxes on your biodiesel.
I think they are going to send me some paper work and I'll let
you know what is says when I get it.

> 
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Police Check Point - fuel dye test.]

2006-04-13 Thread Thomas Kelly

Darryl,
 You wrote:
 "Actually, I've never wondered until now if they dye home heating oil 
as
well.  Anybody know?"

 Answer:Yes they do. HHO is dyed a very deep red color here in the 
northeast USA.
Tom
 - Original Message - 
From: "Darryl McMahon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Check Point - fuel dye test.]


We see this sort of testing hereabouts as well.  Normally they are
checking for dyed fuel, which is exactly that.  It's pale red/pink.
Sometimes called farm gas.  There is an equivalent for diesel for
off-road use.

It should mean nothing for homebrewers (assuming of course your finished
fuel isn't red in colour).  If your finished fuel is red (or whatever
dye colour is used in your vicinity), I recommend you have a good
explanation ready to go. I'm not sure the sniff test (exhaust or fuel)
will be sufficient.

Interesting they were only checking diesels.  They check gassers around
here too.  Somebody steal a tanker of dyed diesel in Eric's
neighbourhood in the past few days?

Actually, I've never wondered until now if they dye home heating oil as
well.  Anybody know?

Darryl

Mike Weaver wrote:
>
>
> What does this mean for homebrewers?
>
> On 4/12/06, *Eric Youngdale* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
>
>
> I got this in my inbox this morning from someone I work with.  He
> was on Rt 17 between US 50 and I66.
>
> I had an interesting stop at a police checkpoint this
> morning…the real gun carrying kind too! The signs read "safety
> check" as I approached it.  All of the work trucks were being
> pulled over.  They have these 4-5 times per year but I never
> knew why until today.  Today the officer asked me if my car was
> a diesel. I told him it was so he asked me to follow the trucks
> for a "fuel dye test".  When I reached the next officer he told
> me that they were checking for "farm fuel" to make sure it was
> properly taxed.  I started to get a little nervous because I am
> running B5 (although I buy it at a gas station where I hope they
> are properly taxing me).  The next officer asked me if I would
> give them permission to check my fuel which I did.  She asked me
> for my drivers' license and another officer stuck a long skinny
> plastic tube down in my fuel tank and took a sample.  Once that
> was done they sent me on my way. I guess they will do the test
> somewhere else and let me know what they found.  The trucks were
> getting weighed and stuff but that was not necessary for me.
> Anyway Eric make sure your paying your taxes on your biodiesel.
> I think they are going to send me some paper work and I'll let
> you know what is says when I get it.


-- 
Darryl McMahon  http://www.econogics.com
It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?


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Re: [Biofuel] sustainable biodiesel from Casto : Big is not beautiful, small is more sustainable

2006-04-13 Thread bob allen

Ricin is a protein which would be denatured by the reaction conditions. 
  Denaturation just means changing the shape of the protein, thus 
inactivating it.   Same as hard boiling an egg more or less.


Keith Addison wrote:
> Dear Pannirselvam
> 
> Thanks for your message, sorry for the late reply.
> 
>> Respected  and dear Keith and members
>>
>>  Thanking you for you to bring here the updated  valuable 
>> information about Castor  as biofuel raw material.
>>
>>   The underdeveloped dry semiarid land of the north east of 
>> Brazil  has been found to be very excellent  for Castor cultivation 
>> with high productivity. .The Brazilian big oil company PETROBRAS 
>> has pa tended process based on the Castor  , some more detailed 
>> process information , I can send another  e mail  if there is an 
>> need for the same here.
> 
> Please do, if it's not too much trouble.
> 
>>By using one step  simultaneous  extraction and 
>> esterification , the patented process use crushed seeds  to make 
>> four products , the BioD , the glycerol , the protein, carbohydrate 
>> that seem to deintoxicated for animal feed  is now being   scaled up 
>> to big pilot plant.
> 
> I wonder how they detoxify it. Ricin is very poisonous.
> 
>>  Competing with this big , another  big a private oil 
>> company , now making  investments  with social  and unfriendly 
>> agricultural  modern  big farming  , as this company  called Eco 
>> diesel is  also  entering now  into the market of Brazilian B2 fuel 
>> market,  making  sound  Eco farming model  giving land for the poor 
>> landless peole to plant  Castor , the housing , the eduction ,the 
>> state government giving the lands , this  private company  use the 
>> conventional process  based on the process of the Brazilian father 
>> of BioD , Prof Expedito Parente , who  invited me from India to 
>> BRAZIL(1983)  , for me  to dedicate on the the Brazilian biofuel 
>> research project. He  has the first word patent  of bioD including 
>> the Castor  based process , and also made Biokerosene from castor 
>> oil   sucessfully  proved to be the fuel for airoplane 
>> with  Military research.
>> Prof Expedito also work with several government and private  company 
>> to make Biofuel  and any one can easily  share experience with him 
>> about castor oil  processing  and  he has book published too in 
>> Brasil
>>
>>The small presss , the small JTF procees , designed  to make 
>> animal feed , pyrolsed biogas , Biofuel and organic fertlizer  to 
>> recycle back the bioenrgy  for comunity  development is our  small 
>> group research efforts which surely include sunflower , caster oil 
>> of the dry lands as these can make sustainable the life of dry 
>> semiarid  peple with great hope with green energy projects.
> 
> The pyrolised biogas part of it is beyond me, so far.
> 
>> This integrated  project is our dream to make it reality , as we 
>> have already made the small press , thanks to Keith JTF , so simple 
>> to make , now processing coonut , getting good resutls , future the 
>> sunflower and also the castor oil .
> 
> Which small press it that, Pan? Is it this one?
> 
> The Sunflower Seed Huller and Oil Press
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/oilpress.html
> 
> Do you have any photographs of it being used?
> 
>> We  believe , there is no need of bioD , as we already  can use oil 
>> directly  upto 25 porcent by blending with petro deisel as this is 
>> very cheaper in rural area too , the blending of BIOD  from caster , 
>> we hope to  get the better results .
>>
>>   Brazil has 20 years of good research reports about castor oil use 
>> as biofuel , which we have the acess .One main problem with castor 
>> oil BioD is the viscosity that can be easily solved.
> 
> That seems to be the main problem. Castor oil is 100 times more 
> viscous than petro-diesel. Castor oil biodiesel is less viscous than 
> the straight oil, but several references say it is still higher than 
> the national standards specification limits. If there is an easy way 
> to make it less viscous or to solve the problem that would be 
> valuable to know.
> 
> Do you have any further information on this?
> 
> This is quite interesting on how castor oil works as a lubricant and 
> why it's different to other oils:
> http://www.georgiacombat.com/CASTOR_OIL.htm
> CASTOR OIL
> 
>>We are ready to shar the  the Brasilian research effort as  we 
>> believe that  we will be the number one in the world to come up with 
>> this biofuel , not because  of the will of the 8 biilions of liters 
>> of alcohol we produce  , because  the country has the vast land 
>> resources nearby by the  Africa , and Europe where there is need 
>> for the fuel .
>>
>>  Yet big  is not not beautifuel ,
> 
> That's a very good word!  Big is not beautifuel, small is beautifuel, 
> that's great! :-)
> 
>> as  Micro Soft Bill  Gate  too has  invested the money in the  big 
>> Brazilian ethanol  plants ,

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