Re: [Biofuel] Black light energy

[Andrew Spagnolo]

Somehow I am reminded of doc ock building that giant sphere of doom...

--- On Wed, 9/16/09, Erik Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Erik Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Black light energy
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 8:12 PM

According to wikipedia, it looks like a lot of hocus pocus and hand
waving, but it's not entirely certain. At the very least they have not
been very diligent or forthcoming about their stuff before trying to
make a bunch of money off of it. Already have gotten upwards of 60
million dollars of investors money so either they're very convincing,
or there might be something to it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklight_Power

At any rate, it smells fishy enough that I wouldn't go near it with my money.

Erik

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 5:19 PM, bmolloy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi All,
>        No pun intended, but can anyone throw some light on this?
>
> 
>
>
> Cranbury, NJ (January 06, 2009)-BlackLight Power (BLP) Inc. today announced
> its second commercial license agreement with Farmers' Electric Cooperative,
> Inc. of New Mexico, (Farmers' Electric).  In a non-exclusive agreement, BLP
> has licensed Farmers' Electric to use the BlackLight Process and certain BLP
> energy technology for the production of thermal or electric power.  Farmers'
> Electric may produce gross thermal power up to a maximum continuous capacity
> of 250 MW or convert this thermal power to corresponding electricity.
>
> BlackLight Power Inc. is the inventor of a new primary energy source and a
> new field of hydrogen chemistry with broad commercial applications. The
> company has developed a new primary energy source with applications to
> heating, distributed power generation, central power generation, and motive
> power based on a new chemical process of releasing the latent energy of the
> hydrogen atom, the BlackLight Process.
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> About Farmers' Electric Cooperative, Inc. of New Mexico
> Formed in 1937, Farmers' Electric serves rural consumers surrounding Texico,
> Clovis, and Tucumcari; and the communities of Melrose, Fort Sumner, Santa
> Rosa, Conchas Dam, House, Grady, San Jon and Logan with over 4,200 miles of
> energized lines.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] A wind turbine for your home

[Andrew Spagnolo]

Thank you all for the advice and assistance,

Z, in regards to this information, this would explain why a 2K rated wind 
turbine will only supply some 15% of a households energy consumption. 

Upon further consideration, I am located at the bottom of a hill, so my wind 
speeds are probably going to be pretty awful, necessitating the postponement of 
my plans for wind energy. 

Yet I am grateful for all the information from all of you.

I am still currious how the company in question can indicated a full investment 
return within 12-36 months. Seems preposterous to me.

Peace and love all,

Andrew

--- On Sat, 6/20/09, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A wind turbine for your home
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 10:22 PM

On wind turbine ratings the average power out of a wind turbine will
generally be much less than the rated power.  Unless, of course, you have a
nice constant 28mph wind with no turbulence or variation most turbines
tend to be rated around 25 to 30mph.  I have had a little 200 watt rated (at
28mph) turbine up at my house all winter.  It is a quite windy location
where 2x6's move around the yard in gusts and woodpiles blow over.  I've
measured an 85mph gust on my anemometer at the top of my chimney, and 50mph
gusts are common all winter.  This turbine, over the 6 months of winter,
peaked out at 250 watts, and only produced 15kWh all winter   not so
good (meaning that the average power it produced over the winter was about 3
watts).  On especially miserably windy days, it could produce up to 0.7kWh
though -- which still means it was only averaging 30 watts even on the
really windy days.  Even though I have lots of gusty winds, my average
windspeed is not great (especially only 15 feet off the ground where this
little turbine is).  I had a bigger one, rated at 1kW, up for a few days.
It peaked out at about 2.1kW, and was capable of doing about 2 to 3kWh over
a windy day.  Tower failure in 90mph winds (estimated) brought it down, and
I haven't gotten it back up again yet.  You can see from these numbers that
in a gusty wind regime like mine, even a turbine that peaks at a quite high
number, does not consistently produce anywhere near that amount.   The
places where wind farms are installed are usually selected for consistent
even winds... not really high gusty winds, like most people psychologically
think of as windy areas.

To figure out how much a turbine could be expected to produce in your area,
the best way is to get a year's worth of 10 second (or 1 second) windspeed
data, then use that, along with the power curve of the turbine (if a turbine
that is professionally made and for sale doesn't have a published power
curve be very very suspicious), to figure out what it would have
produced for that year.   A little cruder method... but one that we usually
have to use since we don't have the actual monitored wind data, is the
published energy curve (harder to find than power curves, but many
manufacturers are starting to include them), and the average annual
windspeed (or better, average monthly windspeed).  citydata.com has average
monthly windspeed (usually taken at an airport, at 10 meter height).

Z
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Re: [Biofuel] A wind turbine for your home

[Andrew Spagnolo]

David and everyone,

Thank you for the clarification. Perhaps you could help me clear up another 
issues regarding this wind turbine.

I plugged a few numbers to find my household average KWH to determine what 
percentage of my energy consumption this wind turbine would account for. 
I checked the website 
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_b.html
to find the cost of electricity in my state, (Virginia) to find my yearly, and 
hourly energy consumption. My total household electric bill for 2008 was $1234, 
averaging out to 102.83 a month. With an average cost of $0.0845 per KWH in the 
state of Virginia, this equates to about 14604KWH for the year of 2008. divided 
by days and hours(366 for the leap year, and 24), this equates to an average 
energy usage of 1.6625 KWH.

Now the windmill advertises an output of about 2 KW, yet i fails to observe or 
the add failed to mention at what wind speed that would be attained. If that is 
the average output, one could assume that the device would be more the able to 
power my, or the average US household, yet the add stated you can only expect 
15-18%, while also stating that you could expect it to pay for itself in 12-36 
months. 

These are contradicting statements in my view. Lets just negate the supposed 
30% federal rebate, as well as the $1500 supposed installation cost for 
simplicity sake. 

According to 
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_US_household_electricity_consumption_in_2008
the average US household consumes 10656 KWH per year

Again, according to
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_b.html,
the average cost per KWH in 2009 is 11.2 cents.

This equates to $1193.47.

$4500/1193.47= 3.77 years or about 45 months, assuming the devices compensates 
for 100% of the cost of the electricity. IF it only accounts for 15-18%, then 
it is only producing 1598.4-1918.08 KWH per year or about .2KW, and it would 
take about 22.5 YEARS to pay for itself.

Can anyone figure this out?

Thank you,

Andrew

--- On Sat, 6/20/09, David House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: David House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A wind turbine for your home
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 11:05 AM


Friends,

Responding to myself:

David House wrote:
> One can assume a standard sea level air density (0.0024 slugs per 
> cubic foot), in which case the equation becomes 0.0001423 AV^3 , where 
> A is expressed in square feet and V is in MPH. This results in a 
> figure for instantaneous power in watts. Area is of course pi times 
> the radius squared.

My math is wrong there. I was taking information from something I had 
written 30 years ago ("Wind and Windspinners", p. 99), and 0.0001423 
AV^3 assumes an efficiency of 20% in the turbine. One hundred percent 
efficiency would be 0.0012 AV^3 .

My apologies for the error. The basic point remains, which is that there 
is not much power in low winds to extract, and thus very modest reasons 
for trying to do so.


d.
-- 
David William House
"Make no search for water.       But find thirst,
And water from the very ground will burst."
(Rumi, a Persian mystic poet, quoted in /Delight of Hearts/, p. 77)
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Re: [Biofuel] A wind turbine for your home

[Andrew Spagnolo]

Thank you Z!

--- On Fri, 6/19/09, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A wind turbine for your home
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 10:24 PM

www.dsireusa.org has just about everything as far as rebates, incentives,
etc.  I had not heard anything about rebates... only the tax credits.

Z

On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Andrew Spagnolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> The message bellow states that federal and state rebates cover anywhere
> from 30-100% of the cost of the wind turbine. Does anyone know where to find
> these federal and state rebates?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andrew
>
> --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Biofuel] A wind turbine for your home
> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:49 AM
>
> A wind turbine for your home
>
> <
> http://www.got2begreen.com/green-lifestyles/ace-is-the-place-to-pick-up-a-rooftop-wind-turbine/#more-6310
> >
> Got2begreen - Michigan-based Earthtronics is giving the eco-minded
> one less excuse to rely on fossil-fuel based power. The company will
> begin selling a Honeywell rooftop turbine at ACE Hardware stores in
> the fall. The retailer has more than 4,000 stores in the United
> States. The price for the 2-kilowatt spinner is a bit high, at
> $4,500, and installation can set you back as much as $1,500, the
> company estimates. But the devices are eligible for a 30-percent
> federal tax credit and can offset as much as 18 percent of a home's
> electricity use. They also work in wind as wimpy as 2 mph.
>
> <http://earthtronics.com/honeywell.aspx>Honeywell - By practically
> eliminating mechanical resistance and drag, the Honeywell Wind
> Turbine creates significant power (2000 kWh/yr) operating in a
> greater range of wind speeds (2-45 mph) than traditional wind
> turbines. . . . The Honeywell Wind Turbine's Power Blade System
> creates energy at the blade tips, rather than the complicated central
> gear of a traditional turbine. . . The turbine's installed cost is
> approximately 1/3 of the cost of traditional turbines with a lower
> installed cost per kWh than any turbine on the market. Adding to the
> value are federal and state rebates covering anywhere from 30% to
> 100% of the overall cost.
>
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Re: [Biofuel] A wind turbine for your home

[Andrew Spagnolo]

Hello everybody,

The message bellow states that federal and state rebates cover anywhere from 
30-100% of the cost of the wind turbine. Does anyone know where to find these 
federal and state rebates?

Thank you,

Andrew

--- On Fri, 6/19/09, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Biofuel] A wind turbine for your home
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:49 AM

A wind turbine for your home

<http://www.got2begreen.com/green-lifestyles/ace-is-the-place-to-pick-up-a-rooftop-wind-turbine/#more-6310>
 
Got2begreen - Michigan-based Earthtronics is giving the eco-minded 
one less excuse to rely on fossil-fuel based power. The company will 
begin selling a Honeywell rooftop turbine at ACE Hardware stores in 
the fall. The retailer has more than 4,000 stores in the United 
States. The price for the 2-kilowatt spinner is a bit high, at 
$4,500, and installation can set you back as much as $1,500, the 
company estimates. But the devices are eligible for a 30-percent 
federal tax credit and can offset as much as 18 percent of a home's 
electricity use. They also work in wind as wimpy as 2 mph.

<http://earthtronics.com/honeywell.aspx>Honeywell - By practically 
eliminating mechanical resistance and drag, the Honeywell Wind 
Turbine creates significant power (2000 kWh/yr) operating in a 
greater range of wind speeds (2-45 mph) than traditional wind 
turbines. . . . The Honeywell Wind Turbine's Power Blade System 
creates energy at the blade tips, rather than the complicated central 
gear of a traditional turbine. . . The turbine's installed cost is 
approximately 1/3 of the cost of traditional turbines with a lower 
installed cost per kWh than any turbine on the market. Adding to the 
value are federal and state rebates covering anywhere from 30% to 
100% of the overall cost.

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Re: [Biofuel] Fuel from Algae??

[Andrew Lowe]

Sorry about the late reply to this. I was going through some old emails 
and came across this.


Keith Addison wrote:
> Hello Doug
> 
>> Hi,
>>  I ran into a chap travelling around Australia extolling the virtues of
>> running on SVO.
> 
> No big deal, thousands of people use SVO.
> 
> Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html
> 
>>  He is to email me more details, but apparently there is a project in
>> Australia involved with oil from Algae, aparently using CO2 feedstock from
>> generation equipment.
>>  I googled to try to find more info, but only found foreign references from
>> ~2005. Has anyone heard anything about this project?
> 
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg70264.html>
> [Biofuel] Algal Biodiesel: Fact or Fiction? - John Benemann
> Sat, 16 Jun 2007
> 
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg71344.html>
> [Biofuel] Scientist skeptical of algae-to-biofuels potential - interview
> 28 Oct 2007
> 
> A thorough analysis:
> 
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg69384.html>
> [Biofuel] An in-depth look at biofuels from algae - 1
> 
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg69383.html>
> [Biofuel] An in-depth look at biofuels from algae - 2
> 
> Some comment:
> 
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg69373.html>
> Re: [Biofuel] An in-depth look at biofuels from algae
> 5 Apr 2007

Well, all I can say is thank God/Allah/Buddha/Deity Of Choice that Keith 
wasn't there advising the Wright brothers, Howard Florey, David Warren, 
Hewlett and Packard, Ford, even Rudolf Diesel. It seems the easiest way 
to stir up negative vibes and be told you're a dill in this forum is to 
mention the A word, algae.

Keith, how about you lay off these people for a bit and let them do 
their investigations. Maybe they'll come back with their tails between 
their legs and say "Gee, Keith was right, it can't be done", but there 
is also a chance, and I'm inclined to say a better than even chance, 
that they'll come back and say "Guess what, I just drove to Grandma's 
house on a tank of BioD made from Algae - I've cracked it".

Necessity is the mother of invention, hence we have things such as 
radar and velcro. When the fuel price gets even higher, sufficient 
research, up to date research, not someone reviewing 30 year old 
documents, will be done and the puzzle of biodiesel from algae will be 
solved. I'm much more inclined to believe that it will be solved than to 
naively think that the industrialised world is going to reduce it's 
consumption of fossil fuels per head of population - but then my 
training was in Engineering and not Journalism.

Regards,
Andrew

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[Biofuel] Netiquette Re: Meanwhile, back in the US of A: A price to pay for alternative fuels

[Andrew Lowe]

Joe Street wrote:
> Always put a little petrodiesel in your tank and only use biodiesel as a 
> 'fuel additive'.
> 
> Joe
> 
> Mike Weaver wrote:
> 
>> THOSE WHO MAKE THEIR OWN ENVIRONMENT-FRIENDLY GAS CAN AVOID PAIN AT THE
[snip]
...
...
...
[snip]
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> 
> 
> 

The simple application of a few "snips" would have saved about 140 
lines of text being resent around the world, clogging up cables and 
in-boxes and jamming archives with redundancy. It's something that I 
notice on this list on a semi-regular basis, just hitting reply and then 
adding a 2 line supporting URL or a witticism. As I'm sure it's been 
said before, "Won’t someone please think of the children?" and apply the 
snip.

Andrew

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[Biofuel] [OT] When to pit olives

[Andrew Lowe]

Hi all,
I know a lot of people on this list are grow their own food types, 
pickling, preserving etc etc. Pardon the pun, but does anyone have the 
good oil on olives? I just bought 20kg of Kalamata olives that I intend 
to pickle and was wondering when do I pit them? I've been told that you 
should cut the olive before you begin the pickling process, I would 
assume so that the bittering agent can leach out, so instead of cutting, 
do I pit, or do I cut, pickle and then pit?

Any thoughts from those experienced in all things olive would be 
greatly appreciated.

Regards,
    Andrew


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[Biofuel] Isopropyl Alcohol supplies - Used to be Titration question from a Newbie

[Andrew Lowe]

Thomas Kelly wrote:
>  I agree with Keith that it is best to
>  1.   Use the best quality chemicals and measure accurately.
> (This will always be important, but absolutely crucial when doing small, 
> initial test batches.)
>  2.   Do not attempt to use WVO (and titration) until you have succeeded 
> in making quality BD using virgin oil.
> 
> (That said)  For isopropanol, I now use a product called "Iso Heet" (Red 
> Container; 12 fluid ounces/355ml)). It is 95% isopropanol. I get the same 
> titration as with 99% iso purchased through a chemical supply company. The 
> difference is the price. I pay about $2 (US) per 355ml  vs.  $8 + shipping 
> for 250ml from the chemical supply source. +  In the US many chemical 
> suppliers will no longer ship to private residences.
> 
> Warning: Not all gas line anti-freeze is created equal.
>  I had a problem with something called "Dri Gas". Although its label 
> only listed isopropanol, the "isopropanol" itself titrated 6 or 7.
> 
>  Remember, start with small (1 L) test batches using virgin oil.
> 
>  Best Wishes for Your Success,
> Tom
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 7:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration question from a Newbie
> 
> 
>>> Good Day to all,
>>>
>>> I have a question about the purity of Isopropyl alcohol. Will 90% yield 
>>> good
>>> results or does it have to be 99%??
>> "Isopropanol for titration is available from chemicals suppliers.
>> Some people have used the other kind of Dri-Gas, which is
>> isopropanol, but they found that it's unreliable. Best get 99% pure
>> isopropanol from a chemicals supplier. 70% pure isopropanol is also
>> said to work, but we found it didn't give satisfactory results."
>> -- Make your own biodiesel > The process > Chemicals needed > Chemicals 
>> for WVO
>> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html
>>
>> See also:
>>
>> What should you do if your fuel doesn't pass the wash-test?
>> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#whatdo
>>
>> Accurate measurements
>> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#measure
>> "When "newbies" have problems making their first test batches and it
>> doesn't pass the quality tests it's most often because of inaccurate
>> measurements, or they didn't follow the instructions closely enough."
>>
>> Avoid variables.
>>
>> Have your test batches with new oil passed the quality tests yet?
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Keith

Sorry to come in on this late, but a place I found recently that 
supplies isopropyl alcohol is electronics supply places. It's used to 
clean down PCB's and other electronics stuff. It's even the stuff that's 
used in CD cleaning kits.

Now all of this rests upon me getting my alcohols right, so search, at 
the top of the page, for "isopropyl" at this site, www.rsaustralia.com. 
This gives a range of container sizes. There is also an MSDS at:

http://docs-asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0065/0900766b80065e94.pdf

Have I found the right stuff? Assuming I've got the right stuff, it's a 
lot easier to get 99.7% IPA from an electronics place than a chemical 
supply place. Electronics places are probably a lot more common as well.

Regards,
Andrew

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Re: [Biofuel] Water Powered Engine / Electrolysis

[Andrew Katerman]

If that is the case, how do you explain a car that runs off of this? I have
seen video, and from what I understand it runs off only the normal battery
used to start the car and the hydrogen remove from sea water. I am not an
expert on this at all, but it definately interests me. By the way, where do
you get the efficiences for an electrolysis reactor?

Andrew


On 12/28/06, Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The problem is this.
The electrolyser is 70% efficient best case.
The engine is 30% efficient best case - in use probably 8%
So we have .7 x .3 = .21 conversion of electricity to rear wheel power
best case.
And what losses are associated with the electricity?
they make the 21 % even lower and what powered the electricity?

Websites like this are a cruel joke at best.

If photovoltaics were "free" and ran an electrolyzer during the day to
charge a hydride tank that you could refill from when you got home then a
hydrogen vehicle would be viable.
Better yet a fuel cell to escape the low efficiency of thermal processes.
Fuel cells of 50% efficiency can be purchased now. Then a fuel cell electric
car. Or 2 battery banks rotated daily - that may get you above 80% on
storage/transport of power. Likewise 90% on electric motors can be achieved.
Burning hydrogen in internal combustion is wasteful.

Kirk

*Andrew Katerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote:

 Just trying to pick the brains of the rest of the world

This is pertaining to gasoline engines being run off of hydrogen from an
electrolysis reaction onboard the vehicle.
http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/carplans_doc.htm

What is the probability of this working correctly? Anyone done it?

Thanks,
Andrew
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Re: [Biofuel] Water Powered Engine / Electrolysis

[Andrew Katerman]

ok doug,
thanks I think that makes a little more sense, I hadnt taken that into
account.
Andrew


On 12/28/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


What this amounts to is a really lousy, incompetent attempt at a perpetual
motion machine.

You have to put in the energy to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen,
then you get back the same energy when they recombine. There would be no
surplus to run the vehicle even if every stage was perfectly efficient,
which they are very far from being.

Doug Woodard
St, Catharines, Ontario, Canada


> Just trying to pick the brains of the rest of the world
>
> This is pertaining to gasoline engines being run off of hydrogen from an
> electrolysis reaction onboard the vehicle.
> http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/carplans_doc.htm
>
> What is the probability of this working correctly? Anyone done it?
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew



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[Biofuel] Water Powered Engine / Electrolysis

[Andrew Katerman]

Just trying to pick the brains of the rest of the world

This is pertaining to gasoline engines being run off of hydrogen from an
electrolysis reaction onboard the vehicle.
http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/carplans_doc.htm

What is the probability of this working correctly? Anyone done it?

Thanks,
Andrew
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Re: [Biofuel] Refrig. Compressor as a Vacuum Pump

[Andrew Lowe]

Chris Tan wrote:
> Yes it will. Just make sure that your vacuum tank can take it. I made one a
> month ago and I crumpled a 12gal guage16 stainless steel tank=) But it was a
> lot of fun doing it.
  >
> Best,
> 
> Chris
>   _  
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Kelly
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 8:45 AM
> To: biofuel
> Subject: [Biofuel] Refrig. Compressor as a Vacuum Pump
> 
>  A couple of months ago a post suggested using a refrigerator compressor
> as a vacuum pump. I just accidentally destroyed the refrigerator that I had
> been using for my "kegs" of homebrewed beer. The compressor still works.
> 
>  Will it work as a vacuum pump on my processor?
> 
> 
> Tom
[snip]

Whilst we're talking about refrig compressors, I scored a air 
conditioner, the type that hang out of the window, the other morning 
whilst out walking the dog. My initial thought was to use the heat 
exchanger, the thing with all the fins, in the methanol recovery as my 
condenser and then I thought about the compressor - I would assume that 
the compressor in an air con would be basically the same as a 
refrigerator? Then I also thought that there is also a fan in there 
which is driven by an electric motor - this could become my stirrer for 
the methoxide. Anyone see any problems with this train of thought?

The other thing that I noticed recently is the 10-20l 
drums/tanks/canisters that are used to hold the soft-drink syrup that 
bars use, we call it "post mix" in Australia, which is then mixed and 
dispensed via taps or a hose arrangement. From my memories back when I 
used to do cellars in pubs, these canisters have an inlet for CO2, 
terminating just inside the top, an outlet for the syrup which goes 
right to the bottom of the canister and also a small access "port" on 
the top that can be opened. I have a feeling this would make a perfect 
methoxide mixer, in conjunction with a pump and also a methanol trap, a 
separate canister that is, for the methanol recovery stage. Anyone had a 
look at these or any thoughts?

Regards,
Andrew

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Re: [Biofuel] Biofuels: A Disaster in the Making

[Andrew Libby]

es and causing hunger,
>> malnutrition and impoverishment amongst the poorest sectors of
>> society;
>>
>> rural unemployment and depopulation;
>>
>> the destruction of the traditions, cultures, languages and spiritual
>> values of Indigenous Peoples and rural communities;
>>
>> the extensive use of agro-chemicals, which deteriorate human health
>> and ecosystems
>> the destruction of watersheds and the pollution of rivers, lakes and 
>> streams;
>>
>> droughts and other local and regional climatic extremes; and
>>
>> the extensive use of genetically modified organisms leading to
>> unprecedented risks.
>>
>> These effects will have particularly a negative impact on women and
>> Indigenous Peoples, who are economically marginalized and more
>> dependent on natural resources like water and forests.
>>
>> Biofuels are a disaster in the making. Existing legally binding
>> standards, regulations and enforcement mechanisms in the (potential)
>> production countries are absolutely insufficient to prevent the
>> above-mentioned impacts. International demand for biofuels is
>> already surpassing supply in key countries like Malaysia and Brazil,
>> giving an important push to the expansion of destructive crops like
>> oil palm and sugar cane. Initiatives to produce these monocultures
>> 'Äúresponsibly'Äù are rejected by many NGOs and social movements in
>> the production countries themselves, who have emphasized that the
>> above-mentioned negative social and environmental impacts are
>> inherent to the large-scale production of monocultures.
>>
>> There is nothing green or sustainable to imported or exported
>> biofuel. Instead of destroying the lands and livelihoods of local
>> communities and Indigenous Peoples in the South through yet another
>> form of colonialism, we call upon Northern countries to recognize
>> their responsibility for destroying the planet'Äôs climate system,
>> to reduce their energy consumption to sustainable levels, to pay the
>> climate debt they have created by failing to do so until now and to
>> dramatically increase investment in solar energy and sustainable
>> wind energy.
>>
>> We also call upon all governments to develop and effectively enforce
>> environmental and social standards and regulations that ensure that
>> national biofuel production industries do not destroy the
>> livelihoods and ecosystems of Indigenous Peoples and local
>> communities. Corporations should be held strictly liable for any
>> social and environmental damage that has occurred and they should be
>> effectively prosecuted if they do not uphold environmental and labor
>> laws.
>>
>> Signed (as of 30/10):
>>
>> Global Forest Coalition
>> Pacific Indigenous Peoples Environment Coalition
>> Institute of Cultural Affairs, Ghana
>> Oilwatch
>> Red America Latina Libre de Transgenicos
>> Elsa Nivia
>> RAPALMIRA
>> RAP-AL Colombia
>> Acci^"n Ecol^"gica, Ecuador
>> Instituto de Estudios Ecologistas del Tercer Mundo, Ecuador
>> Fundacion para la Promocion del Conocimiento Indigena, Panama
>> FASE-ES, Brazil
>> Ecological Society of the Philippines
>> Forest Peoples Programme, UK
>> Asociacion Indigena Ambiental, Panama
>> Worldforests, Scotland
>> Bhartiya Kissan Union
>> Robin Wood, Germany
>> Sarhad Conservation Network, Pakistan
>> Centre Internationnal d'Etudes Foresti^®res et Environnementales, Cameroon
>> Onehemisphere, Sweden
>> WALHI/Friends of the Earth-Indonesia
>> KEPS/HKCA, Pakistan
>> Munlochy Vigil, Scotland
>> Grupo de Reflexion Rural, Argentina
>> Timberwatch, South Africa
>> Fundacion Ambiente Total del Chaco, Argentina
>> Corporate Europe Observatory
>> Costa Carrera, Chile
>> Tom Lines
>> Rob Law
> 
> 
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-- 
Andrew Libby
Tangeis, LLC
Innovative IT Management Solutions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [Biofuel] I need some advice

[Andrew Libby]

Hi Ken,

Not too far from you (Spring City PA), I've seen a guy that
sells plastic 55 gallon barrels/ drums pretty cheap $10 I 
think.  It's along 724 between Phoenixville and Spring City,
from what I recall.  If you decide to store the WVO and want 
to puruse this, let me know and I'll help out.

I'm just getting started and researching this stuff, so I 
can offer no expertise on your original question.

Hope the ankle heals up well.

Andy





Ken Dunn wrote:
> I have stumbled on about 200 gallons of WVO in the ~5 gallon containers 
> that it came in.  That part is great!  I'll be picking it up this 
> weekend.  Now, the tricky part - in the spring I broke my ankle while 
> skateboarding.  That put an immediate halt to my processor development.  
> Its probably 80% completed but, I don't even really remember what I was 
> working on last.  Now the even trickier part - my wife is not likely to 
> be too patient with me having 50 - 5 gallon containers in the garage for 
> too long.  Now, I have 2 empty 55 gallon drums that I could put about 
> half of it in but, I'm not sure if I want to tie those up for that 
> purpose.  Ok, so the question here is, do I work on the reactor to 
> process the oil or do I just get down to the knitty gritty and make 
> biodiesel?  I could use the 5 gallon containers that the oil is in and 
> just use the simple bucket method to get the job done.  I suppose I feel 
> a bit more confident in the simple method (probably because I have less 
> waste if something goes wrong).  I guess that I should add that at this 
> point, I've only ever done test batches.  I haven't done anymore that a 
> gallon at a time.  What do you think?
> 
> I hope everyone is doing well!
> 
> Take care,
> Ken
> Lancaster County, PA
> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Andrew Libby
Tangeis, LLC
Innovative IT Management Solutions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11

[Andrew Lowe]

Tom Irwin wrote:
> Hi Joe and All,
> 
> I really don´t want to believe this. That´s part of the problem. But
> the buildings fell unusually fast, from film and stopwatch just about
> at freefall speeds. I would have thought if most of the structural
> steel was okay, except for the areas where the fires were, wouldn´t
> they have slowed the descent? _
> 
[snip]

A valid point. I don't have any footage of the actual collapses so 
can't time it but you would have to bear in mind that, using very very 
rough, off the top of my head calculations, each floors concrete along, 
excluding services, floor trusses, fittings, and the central core weighs 
in at at least 1500 tonnes. Can't remember what floors the impacts were 
on but allow 20 floors to be above the impact point. Lets add 500t for 
the fittings etc, so we have 2000t/floor and 20 floors, say 40,000t. To 
put that into context think of a medium sized ship, 1000 semi trailer 
trucks, etc etc. Even with a slight movement, ie a small velocity, that 
sort of mass would become incredibly hard to stop and I would wager 
anything that no building could be built that could stop that hence as 
it dropped it picked up more and more speed until it was going quite fast.

Regards,
Andrew

p.s. This thread has been going on for a bit, is it time yet to invoke 
Goodwins law? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law   ;)



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Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11

[Andrew Lowe]

D. Mindock wrote:
> http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=9027371&content_dir=ua_congressorg
> 
> WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11

> 
> As we celebrate the 5th anniversary of Sept 11, more questions about
> what really happened that fateful day are surfacing. A businessman
> friend of mine who worked in the Twin Towers told me how everyone had
> to vacate their offices during innumerable fire drills months before
> Sept 11. These required they run to stairwells and wait for periods
> averaging 20 minutes. He recalls the bomb detecting dogs placed after
> the attack years ago were removed from then on. He is sure a
> demolition was planted then. 

Yeah right. Let me guess, it was all the fumes from the ANFO corroding 
his tin foil hat that alerted him!!!

>Many claim the buildings collapsed due

Do any of these people have the letters B.Eng(Civil) after their name? 
If not then they are not Civil Engineers and then definitely not 
Structural Engineers - you graduate from Uni with a degree in Civil 
Engineering and then over the years due to experience and specialisation 
become a Structural Engineer - Oh look, that's what I did hence I'm a 
Structural Engineer.

> to the intense heat melting the steel. Please see the video

WHAT UTTER CRAP. One of the main causes of failure was that the steel 
that comprised the floor trusses elongated due to heating. It didn't 
melt, the heat caused its tensile strength to reduce until the floor 
trusses failed causing lateral forces on the core which itself was 
weakened by the heat, and also had a good number of floors sitting above 
it. With the load from the floors above, the lateral forces from the 
floor trusses and its columns weakened by heat it's no wonder the areas 
around the impact points failed causing the collapse.

And no the building was not designed to withstand the impact of a 
plane. The buildings were designed for wind loads etc, the usual 
loadings that Structural Engineers worry about and then as an 
AFTERTHOUGHT the building was checked to see how it would go up against 
a plane - the case of the Empire State Building being hit be a Bomber in 
WW2 being the "prior art". It was found that it should withstand the 
impact of a 707 going slowly with an almost empty fuel load - a plane 
lost in the fog looking for Kennedy Airport. The "weapons" on the day 
were 767's. The difference in kinetic energy between the 707 scenario 
and what actually happened is about 10 times greater in favour of the 
767, which also had a close to full fuel load. Once again no need for 
explosives, the planes had enough energy themselves.

Talking of the kinetic energy of the planes, that's why the fire 
protection on the steel didn't work. It had basically shattered due to 
the impacts of the planes with the buildings.

To claim that the destruction of the WTC towers was the work of 
anything other than a situation that no sane Structural Engineer could 
ever conceive and hence design for is the work of someone with a few 
roo's loose in the top paddock. If you are skilled in the field of 
Structures, it failure, unfortunately, makes sense.

> documentary based on real footage and witness's narration during that
> day mentioned below. One sees people standing in the top floors in
> gaping walls near the flames, still motioning about. If they were not
> burnt how can steel be melting? Many jumped to their deaths intact.

It didn't melt. Repeat after me, it didn't melt

> Molten steel is thick and like lava, flows slowly. These buildings,

No it isn't. It can be as viscous as water. Ever been to a blast furnace?

> after only 50 minutes of limited fires in the top floors, imploded in
> 9 seconds to the ground. Molten steel would have taken a long time to
> buckle 100 stories down. The nearby building 7 also imploded that

"buckle down 100 stories" WTF?

> same day although small flames entered it! Its owner admits giving OK
> to have it imploded. Building 7 held active FBI and Wall Street
> investigation documents of on going cases. Some had investigations of
[SNIP]
.

...
..
.
I studied Civil Engineering with a major in Structures and Analysis not 
Medicine with a major in Psychiatry so I'll leave the reader to make 
their own judgements on the rest of this.

Regards,
Andrew Lowe B.Eng(Civil)


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Re: [Biofuel] Google search FAILURE

[Andrew Libby]

This is no accident.  The same kind of thing has been true of their
mapping application for a while now. 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=l&hl=en&q=miserable+failure,+washington+dc&ie=UTF8&lr=lang_en&near=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=92.518848,103.886719&om=1&ll=38.902923,-77.039952&spn=0.023612,0.025363

or for the big url disinclined:

*http://tinyurl.com/nexjr

The search is for Miserable Failure, Washington DC.

Andy


*Marylynn Schmidt wrote:

>Subject: Google knows everything
>1- Go to www.Google.com
>2- Type in Failure
>3- Look at the first listing and laugh at what comes up first
>4- Tell others before the people at Google Fix it!
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Mystery

[Andrew Libby]

I want my two dollars.  Two d-dollars.

(bad, perhaps young movie reference.  Anyone get it?)

Andy




Mike Weaver wrote:

>Whatever. Just send me my damned dollar, McLoren...
>
>Kirk McLoren wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I have given this to a lot of people. The biofuels folk are atypical.
>>Ok guys give yourself a pat on the back.
>>
>>*/"D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>>
>>If you reformulate the conclusion as follows:
>>30 original cost - 3 the dollars the men got back - 2 the
>>bellboy's "tip"
>>you get $25. The $2 is subtracted not added.
>>Peace, D. Mindock
>>
>>- Original Message -
>>*From:* Kirk McLoren 
>>*To:* biofuel 
>>*Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:44 AM
>>*Subject:* [Biofuel] Mystery
>>
>>3 MEN GO INTO A MOTEL. THE MAN BEHIND THE DESK SAID THE ROOM
>>IS $30, SO
>>EACH MAN PAID $10 AND WENT TO THE ROOM.
>>
>>A WHILE LATER THE MAN BEHIND THE DESK REALIZED THE ROOM WAS
>>ONLY $25,
>>
>>SO HE SENT THE BELLBOY TO THE 3 GUYS' ROOM WITH $5. ON
>>THE WAY THE BELLBOY COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW
>>TO SPLIT $5 EVENLY
>>
>>BETWEEN 3 MEN, SO HE GAVE EACH MAN A $1 AND KEPT THE OTHER $2
>>FOR HIMSELF.
>>
>>
>>THIS MEANT THAT THE 3 MEN EACH PAID $9 FOR THE ROOM, WHICH IS
>>A TOTAL
>>OF$27, ADD THE $2 THAT THE BELLBOY KEPT = $29.
>>
>>WHERE IS THE OTHER DOLLAR?
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
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>>rates. 
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[Biofuel] Motorcycles was Fuel Help

[Andrew Libby]

The prospect of running a biodiesel motorcycle is precisely why I joined
the list.  Are there folks here that have any input on the idea?  Is it
practical?
I'm an avid motorcyclist but have always wanted to find a way to embrace
riding yet have a smaller footprint environmentally.

Also, I'm just learning about fuels in general.  How comparable is biodiesel
to home heating oil?  Or is this a poor question because of the variety
of biodiesel
options available?

New to the list and throughly enjoying myself.

Andy



Zeke Yewdall wrote:

> Are we so strapped for fuel that we have to siphon 20 year old stuff
> out of helicopters now??? I guess it does make more sense than
> throwing it away, so I'd go for it.  Since the main problem with
> kerosene in diesel engines is lack of lubricity, I'd mix it with
> biodiesel instead of diesel -- offset the low lubricity stuff with
> high lubricity stuff.   Also, the whole impetus behind the army
> developing diesel motorcycles is apparently so they don't have to
> bring gasoline along at all -- helicopters, tanks, dirt bikes,
> everything will run on the same jet fuel
>
> Z
>
> On 8/11/06, *Joe Street* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
>
> Hi Paul;
>
> I can't say for sure but I have heard of the guys who work as
> ground crew at the Tortonto airport putting jet fuel in their
> diesel cars.  Apparently fuel which is drained from wing tanks is
> not allowed to be put back in so they often have some 'waste'.
>
> Joe
>
> Paul S Cantrell wrote:
> Good Afternoon all,
> I have an interesting story for ya'll today.  I work at a small
> military college.  Being a military school, we have a tank, a
> personnel carrier, a rocket, several howitzers, an F-4 Phantom, an
> anchor and a Huey Cobra helicopter on the parade field.  The
> helicopter is why I'm writing.  It was donated by the national
> guard 20 years ago and the engine was removed.  However, the FUEL
> was not removed.  It smells like kerosene.  It is colorless/clear
> and dry, since the fuel tanks were full and sealed the whole
> time.  This discovery was made when we decided to move it to pour
> a concrete pad for it.
>
> A sample weighs exactly 800 grams per liter (digital scale is
> +/-20 grams), so it is too heavy to be JP4 (50%
> gasoline/50%kerosene + additives), too light for diesel and about
> right to be JP8 (100% kerosene + additives).
> I referenced this website for densities of fuel:
> http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_liquids.htm
>
> I have a 98 VW Jetta TDI that has half a tank of regualar #2
> diesel in it at the moment.
>
> I know up north in the US the fuel companies mix diesel with
> kerosene up to 50/50 in the winter time.  Also, as I understand
> it, the new ULSD is very similar to kerosene.
>
> Should I have any reservation mixing it up to 50/50 in my car?  I
> don't really, I just wanted to share the story and hear from ya'll.
>
> No real answers at the TDIClub website.
>
> -- 
> Thanks,
> PC
>
> He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch
>
> The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut
> stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder
> at the possibility that there may be something to them which we
> are missing. - Gamal Abdel Nasser
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Have You Hugged Your Hummer Today?

[Andrew Lowe]

Quoting Alan Petrillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> The good folks at Reason.org are at it yet again.  :-(
> 
> http://www.reason.org/commentaries/dalmia_20060719.shtml
> 
> 
> AP
> 
> 
I can remember seeing an episode of the English show Top Gear,
www.bbc.co.uk/topgear where the consumption of hybrids was mentioned. One of the
presenters said that he drove a hybrid from point A to point B and got about
40-45 miles/gallon. He subsequently drove a similar sized diesel over the same
route and got a consumption of about 50-55 miles/gallon. n.b. Figures are from
memory and could be a bit rubbery but the jist of the comment was that current
technology diesels can, and do, get better consumption than hybrids.

Regards,
Andrew

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Re: [Biofuel] we had nothing to do with that

[Andrew Lowe]

Kirk McLoren wrote:
> Son of Pimenthal
>   He is the 2nd half
> 
>   
>  http://www.metacafe.com/watch/173615/seismic_surveys
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy!

Just going through some old email when I saw this. Before you think the 
second half is real, it isn't. The 7.30 report is a serious current 
affairs show but on the close on Thursdays, there is a short 
intellectual comedy sketch done by John Clarke and Brian Dawe

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/7.30_clarkedawe.htm

John, the balding one, plays the person being interviewed and Brian is 
the interviewer. Johns characters range from the Australian Prime 
Minister to the treasurer to company spin doctors and so on. It's very 
well done, always in the same setting and relies on very good, and very 
funny, word play.

    Regards,
Andrew

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Re: [Biofuel] What is sustainable?

[Andrew Lowe]

Rexis Tree wrote:
> What is sustainable? There are voices saying Malaysia and Indonesia oil palm
> plantation are not sustainable, and therefore the biodiesel they made are no
> point at all. I am very curious, how sustainable could a plantation be? Is
> there a way of sustainable plantation?
> 
> 

I was just cleaning out some old emails and came across this. I was 
recently talking to a stockbroker, yes I did wash afterwards, who had 
recently floated a BioD company. They will be setting up a 250Ml plant 
in Kuantan, Malaysia. During the roadshow part of the float they had to 
  convince some investment funds that the Malaysian palm oil supply was 
sustainable.

The reply was that a lot of the palm oil plantations are not new 
plantations, ie having just ripped out rainforest and planted palm, but 
where second and in some cases third generation plantations. The logic 
being that if the plantations were established in, say, the 50's - 60's, 
and the trees that are currently planted are the second or third 
generation of trees, the first planting has gone through its life cycle 
and been replaced and so on, then the plantation is sustainable.

Having driven through this part of the world, I'd be worried about soil 
errosion and nutrients being returned to the soil. A few palm oil trees 
won't return to the biomass anywhere near the amount of leaves/branches 
that a "true" jungle will. It might not happen in the next few years, 
but I think you will soon end up with exhaused soils unable to support 
anything.

Regards,
Andrew

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[Biofuel] Bad Stuff is Happening With Chile's Water

[Andrew Netherton]

Dear friends who care about our earth.

Judge for yourself if you want to take action.

In the Valle de San Felix, the purest water in Chile runs from 2
rivers, fed by 2 glaciers. Water is a most precious resource, and wars
will be fought for it.

Indigenous farmers use the water, there is no unemployment, and they
provide the second largest source of income for the area.

Under the glaciers has been found a huge deposit of gold, silver
andother minerals. To get at these, it would be necessary to break, to
destroy the glaciers - something never conceived of in the history of
the world - and to make 2 huge holes, each as big as a whole mountain,
one for extraction and one for the mine's rubbish tip.

The project is called PASCUA LAMA. The company is called Barrick Gold.

The operation is planned by a multi-national company, one of whose
members is George Bush Sr.

The Chilean Government has approved the project to start this year, 2006.

The only reason it hasn't started yet is because the farmers have got
a temporary stay of execution.

If they destroy the glaciers, they will not just destroy the source of
especially pure water, but they will permanently contaminate the 2
rivers so they will never again be fit for human or animal consumption
because of the use of cyanide and sulphuric acid in the extraction
process.

Every last gram of gold will go abroad to the multinational company
and not one will be left with the people whose land it is.  They will
only be left with the poisoned water and the resulting illnesses.

The farmers have been fighting a long time for their land, but have
been forbidden to make a TV appeal by a ban from the Ministry of the
Interior.

Their only hope now of putting brakes on this project is to get help
from international justice.

The world must know what is happening in Chile. The only place to
start changing the world is from here.

We ask you to circulate this message amongst your friends in the following way.

Please copy this text, paste it into a new email adding your signature
and send it to everyone in your address book. Please, will the 100th
person to receive and sign the petition, send it to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] to be forwarded to the Chilean Government.

No to Pascua Lama Open-cast mine in the Andean Cordillera on the
Chilean-Argentine frontier.

We ask the Chilean Government not to authorize the Pascua Lama project
to protect the whole of 3 glaciers, the purity of the water of the San
Felix Valley and El Transito, the quality of the agricultural land of
the region of Atacama, the quality of life of the Diaguita people and
of the whole population of the region.

Signature, City, Country
>
>
>1) Katharine Proudfoot, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK
>
>2) Laura Cole, London, UK
>
>3) David Platt, London, UK
>
>4) Diane Platt, Manchester, UK
>
>5) Tanya Corker, Manchester, UK
>
>6) Nicola Hargreaves, UK
>
>7) Nicholas Jones, UK
>
>8) Johann Don-Daniel, Germany
>
>9) Ashley Berger, Germany
>
>10) Sarah Downie, Leeds, UK
>
>11) Paula Delahunty, Bingley, UK
>
>12) John O'Driscoll, Bingley, Uk
>
>13) Jordan-Lee Delahunty, Bingley, UK
>
>14) Claire Mulvey, Bradford, UK
>
>15) Marie Malcolm Bradford, UK
>
>16) Ann Clowes, Halifax UK
>
>17) Jayne McGee, Brighouse UK
>
>18) Jason Barratt Oldham UK
>
>19) Lindsay Torrance, Rochdale UK
>
>20) Maggie Ford, Rochdale, U.K.
>
>21) Barry Cook, Todmorden, U.K.
>
>22) Shelley Burgoyne, Todmorden, U.K.
>
>23) Lisa Stuart, Potes, Spain.
>
>24) Michael Stuart, Potes, Spain.
>
>25) Renee Engl, Byron Bay, Australia
>
>26) Adrian Begg, Brunswick Heads, Australia
>
>27) Riana Begg, Brunswick Heads, Australia
>
>28) Oriel Paterson, Brunswick Heads, Australia
>
>29) Alicia Paterson, Brisbane, Australia
>
>30) Lyneve Robinson, Sydney, Australia
>
>31) Jennifer Moalem, Sydney, Australia
>
>32) Alexandra Pope, Sydney Australia
>
>33) Shushann Movsessian, Sydney Australia
>
>34) Amanda Frost
>
>35) Chris Liddell, AUS
>
>36) Jade Deegan, AUS
>
>37) Jo Satori, AUS
>
>38) Jennie Gorman, Vic AUS
>
>39) Angelique Queensley, Victoria, Can
>
>40)Chrystyanna Queensley, Victoria, Can
>
>41) Dawna Masters, San Miguel De Allende, Mex.
>
>42) John Gillespie, Canada
>43) Ross Andersen, Canada
>
>44) Devaki Thomas
>
>45) Andrew Riley Mott, Victoria, Canada
>46) Ari Cipes, Kelowna, Canada
>
>47) Ezra Cipes, Kelowna BC, Canada
>
>48) Michael Coutt, Oaxaca City, Mexico

49) Molly Thurston,  Canada

50) Cecelia McMorrow, Lindsay, Canada

51) Marlene Callaghan, Reaboro, Ontario, Canada

52) Steve Callaghan, Reaboro, Ontario, Canada

53)  Ruth Abernethy, Wellesley, Ontario Canada

54) Mark Smyth Wellesley, Ontario, Canada

55) Andrew Netherton, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

[Biofuel] biodiesel from algae in New Zealand

[Andrew Netherton]

A commercial facility has produced the first biodiesel derived from
"wild" sewage algae in New Zealand.  Full article here:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10381404

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Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water

[Andrew Netherton]

On 5/8/06, Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No time to read the details just now -- I'm guessing the
> electricity comes from a wind turbine on top of the car,
> which is turned by the wind from the car's motion down
> the road! :-)
>
>
> -K

Don't laugh.  I actually had some discussions with someone involved in
alternative fuels suggest that adding a small wind turbine to the top
of an electric car would improve its range.  Otherwise a successful
entrepreneur with some great ideas, he just had no concept of the laws
of thermodynamics.

Andrew

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[Biofuel] volume or weight?

[Andrew Leven]

Hi,
 I should have confirmed this before starting 
my biodiesel experiments but is the 20% methanol  in 
the sodium methoxide measured by volume or weight? I did some tests 
and discovered that 20% methanol by weight is roughly 25% by volume when 
compared to virgin VO and + or - compared to WVO. 
Andrew Leven
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Re: [Biofuel] clarifying

[Andrew Leven]

Hi All,
Well after letting my latest 30L batch sit for 
4days after washing it still was cloudy so I put it back in the processor and 
reheated it and then filtered it.Still cloudy. So I washed it again and it has 
now been sitting for 4 more days and still is cloudy. Any advice?
Andrew Leven
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[Biofuel] Palm Oil in Malaysia

[Andrew Lowe]

Hi all,
Is there anyone on the list who is in Malaysia and could give me any 
pointers to getting a look around a Palm Oil plantation operation? I'm 
going to be heading from Johur Baru up the east coast to Cherating, by 
car, this coming Friday and if I don't have to go out of my way much, 
would really like to check out one of these plantations and processing 
plants.

Any help greatly appreciated,
    Andrew Lowe

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[Biofuel] copper plumbing

[Andrew Leven]

Another reactivity question; how about sweated 
[lead free solder}copper piping and brass valves for plumbing on a processor 
?
Thanks for all the info
Andrew Leven
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[Biofuel] galvanized tanks

[Andrew Leven]

Hi ,
I just finished bubblewashing a 30L batch of bio 
but it is still cloudy.
I have a galvanized tank from an old jet pump setup 
that is ported ideally for plumbing and adding a heating element. I want to use 
it for a clarifying tank but am unsure whether the galvy will react with my bio. 
Anybody have any info on  this?
Andrew Leven
 
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Re: [Biofuel] Do you have Free-Thinking Disorder?

[Andrew Netherton]

Sounds like it could be in the same family of pharmeceuticals that Progenitorivox comes from:http://www.jibjab.com/Movies/ClickThrough.aspx?contentid=70
Andrew NethertonOn 3/29/06, D. Mindock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







  

Wonder Drug Inspires Deep, Unwavering Love Of 
Pharmaceutical Companies
March 6, 2006 | Issue 
42•10 
NEW YORK—The Food and Drug Administration today approved the 
sale of the drug PharmAmorin, a prescription tablet developed by Pfizer to treat 
chronic distrust of large prescription-drug manufacturers. 
Pfizer executives characterized the FDA's approval as a 
"godsend" for sufferers of independent-thinking-related mental-health disorders. 

    
Enlarge Image 


PharmAmorin, now relieving distrust of large pharmaceutical 
conglomerates in pharmacies nationwide.
"Many individuals today lack the deep, abiding affection for 
drug makers that is found in healthy people, such as myself," Pfizer CEO Hank 
McKinnell said. "These tragic disorders are reaching epidemic levels, and as a 
company dedicated to promoting the health, well-being, and long life of our 
company's public image, it was imperative that we did something to combat 
them."
Although many psychotropic drugs impart a generalized 
feeling of well-being, PharmAmorin is the first to induce and focus intense 
feelings of affection externally, toward for-profit drug makers. Pfizer 
representatives say that, if taken regularly, PharmAmorin can increase affection 
for and trust in its developers by as much as 96.5 percent.
"Out of a test group of 180, 172 study participants reported 
a dramatic rise in their passion for pharmaceutical companies," said Pfizer 
director of clinical research Suzanne Frost. "And 167 asked their doctors about 
a variety of prescription medications they had seen on TV."
Frost said a small percentage of test subjects showed an 
interest in becoming lobbyists for one of the top five pharmaceutical companies, 
and several browsed eBay for drug-company apparel.
PharmAmorin, available in 100-, 200-, and 400-mg tablets, is 
classified as a critical-thinking inhibitor, a family of drugs that holds great 
promise for the estimated 20 million Americans who suffer from Free-Thinking 
Disorder.
Pfizer will also promote PharmAmorin in an aggressive, $34.6 
million print and televised ad campaign.
One TV ad, set to debut during next Sunday's 60 Minutes 
telecast, shows a woman relaxing in her living room and reading a newspaper 
headlined "Newest Drug Company Scandal Undermines Public Trust." The camera 
zooms into the tangled neural matter of her brain, revealing a sticky black 
substance and a purplish gas.
The narrator says, "She may show no symptoms, but in her 
brain, irrational fear and dislike of global pharmaceutical manufacturers is 
overwhelming her very peace of mind."
After a brief summary of PharmAmorin's benefits, the 
commercial concludes with the woman flying a kite across a sunny green meadow, 
the Pfizer headquarters gleaming in the background. 
PharmAmorin is the first drug of its kind, but Pfizer will 
soon face competition from rival pharmaceutical giant Bristol-Myers Squibb. The 
company is developing its own pro-pharmaceutical-company medication, 
Brismysquibicin, which will induce warm feelings not just for drug corporations 
in general, but solely for Bristol-Myers Squibb.
"A PharmAmorin user could find himself gravitating toward 
the products of a GlaxoSmithKline or Eli Lilly," BMS spokesman Andrew Fike said. 
"This could seriously impede the patient's prescription-drug-market acceptance, 
or worse, Pfizer's profits in the long run."
"Brismysquibicin will be cheaper to produce and therefore 
far more affordable to those on fixed incomes," Fike added. 
The news of an affordable skepticism-inhibitor was welcomed 
by New York physician Christine Blake-Mann, who runs a free clinic in Spanish 
Harlem. 
"A lot of my patients are very leery of the medical 
establishment," Blake-Mann said. "This will help them feel better about it, and 
save money at the same time."
PharmAmorin's side effects include nausea, upset stomach, 
and ignoring the side effects of prescription drug medication. 
Rumors have it that next the Bushites will put out their 
drug called BushAmore which will make us all devoted followers of our Long 
War Leader. No need to buy the drug, it will be aerosoled into your 
neighborhood. A slight increase in your taxes will pay for the cost. Peace, D. 
Mindock

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Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com

[Andrew Netherton]

Don't you remember the episode where Uncle Jesse actually made up a
batch of moonshine to run in a car?  He had to outrun Roscoe and use
up all the fuel so he wouldn't get caught and go to jail!  Of course,
it wasn't the General Lee that they were burning it in.

Anyone else remember that episode?


On 3/28/06, Paul S Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> YEEE-HAW!
>
> Kinda makes you wonder how many vehicles run on moonshine ethanol in rural
> areas under the radar.
>
>
> On 3/28/06, Mike Weaver < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > A '66 Charger running on ethanol?
> >
> > Paul S Cantrell wrote:
> >
> > > I can hear Waylon now...
> > >
> > > Just two good old boys, never meanin' no harm...
> > > Beats all you never saw, been in trouble with the law
> > > Since the day they was born.
> > > Straightenin' the curves, flattenin' the hills...
> > > Someday the mountain might get 'em but the law never will.
> > > Makin' their way, the only way they know how...
> > > That's just a little bit more than the law will allow.
> > > Just two good ol' boys, wouldn't change if they could,
> > > Fightin' the system like two modern-day Robin Hoods...
> > >
> > > Maybe ethanol is for you...
> > >
> > >
> > > > Gregg Davidson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Polk County, Georgia. It's in the NW part of the state. Definitely
> > > the
> > > > > home of Closed Minded thinking when it comes to Biodiesel.
> > > > >
> > > > > */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >/*
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Regular Unleaded Gas...
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeeez, where do you live?
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paul in South Carolina
> > >
> > > He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch
> > >
> > > You can't have everything. Where would you put it? - Steven Wright
>
>
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>
>
>
>

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[Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com

[Andrew Netherton]

Greetings,

I recently clicked through an ad to http://www.dieselsecret.com/ that
claims to enable you to make an alternative diesel fuel from vegetable
oil - not biodiesel, and with no conversion.  It sounds simple enough,
take vegetable oil (virgin or used), add their "Alternative Diesel
Fuel Additive" (supposedly a catalyst of some sort), filter, and use.

Obviously, if they have something worthwhile I'd like to know about
it.  Just as obviously, if they're selling something that is less than
ideal for diesel engines, I'd like to know that too.  Has anyone on
the list tried what they're selling, good or bad?  Anyone with a
chemistry background care to hazard a guess as to what their additive
might be?

Regards,
Andrew Netherton

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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

[Andrew Netherton]

I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment
if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our
cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.

Andrew Netherton


On 3/9/06, AltEnergyNetwork <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Research Shows Only two out Six Hybrid Cars Recoup Cost Within 5 Years
>
> < http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >
>
> Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis
>  in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial
>   benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled
>   "The dollars and sense of hybrids," appears in the Annual April
>Auto issue of CR, on newsstands now.
>
> Consumer Reports is correcting a calculation error involving
>  the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the
>  story, were compared to their conventionally powered
>  counterparts. The error led the publication to overstate
>   how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during
>the first five years.
>
>
>
> full article
>
> < http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >
>
>
>
>
>
> Get your daily alternative energy news
>
>  Alternate Energy Resource Network
>1000+ news sources-resources
>  updated daily
>
> http://www.alternate-energy.net
>
>
> Next Generation Grid
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/
>
>
> Tomorrow-energy
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/
>
>
> Alternative Energy Politics
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/
>
>
>
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[Biofuel] Biofuel Co-operative meeting reminder

[Andrew Netherton]

Greetings,

This is a reminder for the first meeting of the Waterloo biofuel
co-operative.  The meeting is on Tuesday, March 14th at 7pm in
Waterloo.  The location is Sobeys at 450 Columbia Street (at
Fischer-Hallman) in Waterloo in the community room upstairs (enter and
go left).

Please feel free to forward this message on to anyone else that may be
interested in either attending or following our progress.  If you have
previously cross-posted information about this meeting on another mail
list or forum, please post this reminder as well.  Any questions can
be forwarded to myself.

Thanks, and see you there!

Andrew Netherton

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Re: [Biofuel] BD as heating oil

[Andrew Netherton]

Not being an expert in pump service, what would be more economical in
this situation, replacing the pump with a Viton-sealed unit, or
replacing the seals in the existing pump for Viton seals?  (Obviously,
this would have to wait until the weather warmed up.)

Will a B30 blend be that erosive to a rubber seal?  I know that
rubber+B100 spells trouble, but a blend should be that much less
erosive, should it not?

Andrew Netherton


On 2/25/06, Thomas Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Good day to all,
>  I've been using a 30% biodiesel : 70% #2 heating oil blend in my oil
> burner for heat and hot water. When I spoke to the people who service my
> burner and they said: "Don't use that stuff in your oil. It will ruin your
> burner." I have a Beckett oil burner and so I called their technical
> department. (All of this 6 months after starting to use the blend and in the
> midst of the coldest weather we've had). The technician told me that there
> is a rubber seal in the pump and that it will get "eaten away" by biodiesel
> and the pump will leak oil out the bottom of the furnace creating a
> dangerous situation."
>  I began to email various plumbing supply outlets and oil burner
> companies. I recieved an interesting reply from Joe Moody at
> Patriot-Supply.com Plainview (USA).
>  "I am far from an expert on the Bio Diesel fuel. Here is what I know so
> far.  Webster Fuel Pump Company has just come out with a pump that will work
> in this application.  Below is a link to that pump and specifications.  We
> are currently out of these pumps but we will have more next week.  There
> seems to be a big demand for these pumps...  We sell the pump for
> $73.50.
>  I am going to start doing a bit more research because this is a growing
> product for us and we would like to develop our Bio Diesel product line
> further."
>  http://www.websterfuelpumps.com/ln4756.pdf
>
>  The pump "M34DM-3 Bio Pump" contains Viton seals and can pumps blends
> of BD from 5% - 100%.
>
>  I don't know Joe and am not promoting Patriot Plumbing Supply or
> Webster Pumps for that matter. There has been some discussion of BD (and
> BioHeating Oil) on the list. Material incompatibility seems to persist, and
> if a rubber gasket stands in the way of using BD as heating oil, then maybe
> this is the solution.
>  It was also encouraging to hear that "this is a growing product for us
> and we would like to develop our Bio Diesel product line further."
> Tom
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[Biofuel] Revised!: Biofuel Co-operative preliminary meeting, Waterloo, ON

[Andrew Netherton]

Greetings again biofuel advocates,

I regret to inform you that I made an error in my previous message
(below). The meeting was originally scheduled for Monday, March 6th,
however due to a scheduling problem with our presenter Joe Street it
has been moved to Tuesday, March 14th.  Same location, same start
time.  I apologize for any inconvenience.

If you have posted my message on any other forum or list, please
correct the date there as well.

Thanks, and I hope to meet you all on the 14th.

Regards,
Andrew Netherton

On 2/17/06, Andrew Netherton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> You are invited to attend the first meeting to help plan and shape a
> biofuel co-operative headquartered in Waterloo.  In attendance will be
> Joe Street, who has developed a reliable biodiesel reactor and started
> http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca in order to promote biofuels.  My name is
> Andrew Netherton, and I'm assisting Joe in the organization and
> administration of this group.
>
> We will be meeting on Monday, March 6th at 7pm in Waterloo.  The
> location is Sobeys at 450 Columbia Street (at Fischer-Hallman) in
> Waterloo in the community room upstairs (enter and go left).  There is
> no set agenda to the meeting, but the focus will be on organizing the
> group, what structure would serve us best, and a vision for what we'd
> like to accomplish in the short, medium, and long term.  And of
> course, meeting and greeting each other!
>
> Please feel free to forward this message on to anyone else that may be
> interested in either attending or following our progress.  Any
> questions can be forwarded to myself.
>
> Thanks, and see you there!
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Netherton
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Microreactor for biodiesel

[Andrew Netherton]

"Let's hope"?  Screw that, let's actually DO something.  It says right
there that they're looking for commercialization partners. 
Individually we'd have to sit back and wait for someone to make this
happen.  Together, forming an international co-operative or non-profit
corporation, we could each give $20 and actually fund this.  Licence
the technology ourselves, get it produced, get it into the hands of
consumers.

Sitting back and waiting for someone else to do this for us is insane.
 It's just begging for an energy multinational to scoop it up and jack
up the price of admission to the level where only fleet managers could
even consider such an investment, or even worse, buy it outright and
shelve it.

I'm serious.  Kenji, I know you're listening.  Gimme your address and
I'll send you $20 right now for your group to organize and
buy/license/fund this technology.  Piedmont, if you're listening, I'll
give you the same offer.  Let's grab this by the horns and get it out
there.  Hell, I'll do the product development, even if it means moving
to Oregon for a while!

SUITCASE BIODIESEL REACTORS FOR ALL!!!

Andrew Netherton

PS. No, I'm really serious.  I've got my $20 ready.  Not enough?  How
about $10 a month for the next year?  C'mon!!


On 2/23/06, Tomas Juknevicius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> this one is very interesting because it is efficient and applicable at the 
> personal bd production scale:
> http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/02/microreactor_fo.html
> http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2006/Feb06/microreactors.htm
>
> lets hope it matures from vaporware into something real and purchaseable :)
> --
> Tomas Juknevicius
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves

[Andrew Netherton]

All the more reason, perhaps, to consider organizing on a national
level.  Not only will we have more clout and respect when it comes to
biodiesel production self-accrediation, but when we eventually get
into ethanol (a biofuel that is useable by a much larger portion of
the general population that biodiesel is) we may have an easier time
getting the Canadian government to grant us the ability to make our
own legally.

In either case, this calls for grassroots action, and sooner than later.

Andrew Netherton


On 2/22/06, Kenji James Fuse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This was what I was getting at, Zeke, but you've put it much more
> eloquently and succinctly.
>
> I agree that this biofuels list would make a great self-certification
> group, especially as Canadians tend to have this built-in inferiority
> complex; and since this list is so international, it would have clout
> up here.
>
> Kenji
>
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>
> > There is a lot of power in self-certification from trade groups (which
> > the biofuels list essentially is for biodiesel, even if we don't think
> > of ourselves that way).A  relevant example from the PV industry.
> > Colorado has had an active trade group that has an examination,
> > continuing ed, and training process in order to maintain certification
> > for designing and installing PV systems.When the utility was
> > required to install a couple of MW of PV after losing a public vote
> > last year, the entity they eventually started negotiating with was our
> > trade group.  And guess whose web page they refer people to to find an
> > installer.
> >
> > Compare this to Oregon, where there was no grass routes certification
> > process. There, the state legislature I believe, decided, after some
> > shoddy systems going in, that only licensed electricians could touch
> > PV modules.  Technically, anyone else is not even allowed to take them
> > out of the box.  However, these licensed electricians have no
> > requirement to know a thing about PV, and if they go by traditional
> > high voltage wiring practices, could actually made a pretty dangerous
> > system too.
> >
> > Sounds sort of like the biodiesel industry, where homebrewers produce
> > high quality product (and some don't...), and some commercial firms
> > produce crap.  But you know who the government is going to put quality
> > control to if they end of legislating something before we show that we
> > are policing ourselves.
> >
> > On 2/22/06, Kenji James Fuse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I wasn't talking aboout the ASTM test, although one of these days I'm
> > > going to talk to politicians and bureaucrats about getting the 'distillate
> > > curve' off the Canadian specs.
> > >
> > > All I meant is that we write up a 'biodiesel safe' thingy, like those
> > > silly foodsafe courses waiters and grocery store clerks have to take
> > > ("after wiping your bum, wash your hands"). Why let ignorant and
> > > liability-conscious politicos do it in a year or so, when we could do it
> > > easily, better and beat them to it?
> > >
> > > KF
> > >
> > > On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Nigel Kelly wrote:
> > >
> > > > As funny as that is - I see merit in it.
> > > >
> > > > I'm new here, so some comments may be of "ignorance" - excuse them if 
> > > > they
> > > > are ... but...
> > > >
> > > > Is there a standard we can specify that meets and exceeds the various
> > > > aspects of current certification testing? Take the most stringent of 
> > > > each
> > > > apsect to be tested - viscosity, pH etc - and have a single, HIGHER 
> > > > standard
> > > > which would mean anything meeting that standard automatically meets all 
> > > > the
> > > > others.
> > > >
> > > > This gives the biodieselers the "high ground". We can demonstrate we're
> > > > happy to step up to the mark - in fact we're interested in exceeding it 
> > > > (we
> > > > are... right?) Striving for perfection is an admirable thing - I also
> > > > realise it's not a real worl thing... but as a guiding principle it's 
> > > > good.
> > > >
> > > > Nigel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Kenji James Fuse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: 

[Biofuel] Biofuel Co-operative preliminary meeting, Waterloo, ON

[Andrew Netherton]

Greetings,

You are invited to attend the first meeting to help plan and shape a
biofuel co-operative headquartered in Waterloo.  In attendance will be
Joe Street, who has developed a reliable biodiesel reactor and started
http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca in order to promote biofuels.  My name is
Andrew Netherton, and I'm assisting Joe in the organization and
administration of this group.

We will be meeting on Monday, March 6th at 7pm in Waterloo.  The
location is Sobeys at 450 Columbia Street (at Fischer-Hallman) in
Waterloo in the community room upstairs (enter and go left).  There is
no set agenda to the meeting, but the focus will be on organizing the
group, what structure would serve us best, and a vision for what we'd
like to accomplish in the short, medium, and long term.  And of
course, meeting and greeting each other!

Please feel free to forward this message on to anyone else that may be
interested in either attending or following our progress.  Any
questions can be forwarded to myself.

Thanks, and see you there!

Regards,
Andrew Netherton

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Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners

[Andrew Netherton]

Show it a controversial cartoon.  Well, that doesn't so much polarize
it as align it against you - perhaps not quite as useful.

Andrew Netherton


On 2/10/06, bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Howdy Russel,
>
> R Heron wrote:
> > Hi Tim
> > At 50 pounds currency and 36 grams weight for the magnets it is definitely a
> > rip off but polarization is not with out scientific merit.
>
> do you have data to support this claim?
>
> How do you polarize the fuel, a hydrocarbon with essentially no dipole
> moment?
>
> > Highly polarized fuel will combine with air better with obvious results but
> > a 36 gram magnet would not polarize much fuel.
> > Russel
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Tim Hadland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:43 PM
> > Subject: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
> >
> >
> >>
> >>   Been approached by someone selling these from this company:
> >>
> >>  http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm
> >>
> >>I am no physics expert, so are these products a complete con ?
> >>
> >>   cheers Tim
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.4/255 - Release Date: 2/9/2006
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
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>
> "Science is what we have learned about how to keep
> from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Round the Second: coop vrs. corp

[Andrew Netherton]

Hey Kenji,

As it turns out, there's a few of us here in Waterloo that are looking
at doing exactly that, starting up a co-operative specifically to
promote the production and use of biofuels.

If you'd care to share, I'd love to hear/read your progress to date,
your co-operative's goals, policies, and vision, and anything else that
we might be able to emulate.  There's no sense in retracing steps
that have already been taken, right?  (We'd also like to learn
from your mistakes, if any!)

Have you incorporated your co-operative, as a non-profit or
otherwise?  If not yet, consider incorporating as a Canadian
corporation (not just provincial), and then we could simply expand what
you've already done there here in Ontario.  Something to consider.

Best of luck!

Andrew Netherton
On 2/8/06, Kenji James Fuse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
When I first joined this list, I somewhat naively commented on thethe co-operative association as a legitimate way to counter corporateaggression.I was immediately chastised by the list manager, and I don't think that
post ever made it to the list, and I assumed it was a list unconcernedwith political analysis, only with biodiesel production.Over the past year, it is obvious many of you share my concerns over thecorporatization of our lives. And it seems many of you share the
satisfaction of gaining independence from the petro cartels throughbiodiesel production. For every gallon of biodiesel we make ourselves, isa hefty chunk of money we don't give the big boys.By that same logic, incorporating a coop with a well-planned charter would
only further this 'boycott'.It seems there are several biodiesel business individuals out there. Arethere any others with motivations like I've just outlined?As I write up my memorandum of association for a coop in BC, Canada, I
wonder if any of you out there who could offer advice/warnings? And ifI'm going to be labelled 'old-paradigm' again, could you please elaborate?(So far, the memoranda are very influenced by the Piedmont Coop document).
Hope to get feedback.Kenji Fuse___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
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Re: [Biofuel] Ethynol vs Biodiesel

[Andrew Secco]

It is because the mayority of our passenger vehicles which use gasoline can 
use ethanol without (or minor) changes in a blend 85% ethanol 15% gas 
oftenly called E85. The key is the ethanol source is such big quantities to 
serve the whole country. It is in use in Brasil more than twenty years ago 
so it is not new.
But biodiesel is for diesel engines, which is more common in working 
vehicles and also is much more spreaded in europe for passenger cars, but 
not in America.
Engines which use ethanol are totally different to those using diesel.

Andres

- Original Message - 
From: "anna b" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:58 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Ethynol vs Biodiesel


>I am curious as to why ethynol has dominated the
> recent discussion in main stream media of alternative
> fuels.  The way I see it biodiesel is already
> available as are diesel cars to use it.
>
> Does anyone know of any studies that compare the cost
> and environmental impacts of ethynol vs biodiesel?
> Anyone have any knowlege as to why ethynol totally
> dominates the discussion in the main stream media?
> Thanks!
> Anna
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Ethynol vs Biodiesel

[Andrew Netherton]

I would welcome correct where due if I'm wrong, but vehicles currently
being marketed (barring FFVs) aren't fully suited to either ethanol or
biodiesel.

With ethanol, there are the dual issues of not enough compression in a
standard gas engine to make the most of ethanol, and corrossion issues
in the fuel system as well with some materials.  I believe
low-temperature starting may also be an issue.

With biodiesel, there is the issue of the fuel acting as a solvent and
corroding rubber gaskets and seals in the fuel line (when run at high
concentrations or as B100).  Admittedly, this is only one issue, but
is still a serious one.

Overall, however, is the fact that the vast majority of personal
vehicles (in North America, anyway) run on gasoline.  Our diesel
offerings are pretty limited in terms of passenger vehicles (ie.,
excluding pickup trucks and other work vehicles).  While I believe
biodiesel is a great for the transportation industry (buses, trucks,
trains, off-highway equipment, etc.) its penetration into the consumer
market is limited by the penetration of the diesel.

Oh, one last point... the media may be driven by the fact that ethanol
directly helps agriculture.  Yes, biodiesel does as well, but the
ethanol/corn relationship is being heavily marketed, at least every
time I hear about vehicular ethanol.

Andrew Netherton


On 2/3/06, anna b <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am curious as to why ethynol has dominated the
> recent discussion in main stream media of alternative
> fuels.  The way I see it biodiesel is already
> available as are diesel cars to use it.
>
> Does anyone know of any studies that compare the cost
> and environmental impacts of ethynol vs biodiesel?
> Anyone have any knowlege as to why ethynol totally
> dominates the discussion in the main stream media?
> Thanks!
> Anna
>
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[Biofuel] pH question

[Andrew Leven]

Hello,
I've made and washed 4 test batches  from 
different wvo oil sources and have come up with some quite clear, 
light amber colored BD but it all seems to test out at pH 6 + or -. This seems a 
bit low. Any ideas about what would cause a consistent low reading like 
this?
Andrew Leven
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Re: [Biofuel] reprocessed biodiesel

[Andrew Leven]

Well that is a new idea. Next step is to figure out 
what it is.
Andrew Leven
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[Biofuel] biodiesel pH

[Andrew Leven]

Hi ,
I have a really clean, clear looking liter sample 
of finished biodiesel. The pH is 6. Is this ok or too low and if so what is a 
remedy.
Andrew Leven
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[Biofuel] reprocessed biodiesel

[Andrew Leven]

Hi All,
I just finished processing a .5L test batch of some 
really black  wvo. that titrated out at 8.5g/L above the standard 
3.5g/L. I then put it through 4 washings. I  let it sit and settle for 
a couple of days but it stayed a bit murky and would not  clear; 
so I reprocessed it as per virgin oil and have ended up with a clear dark 
amber layer of about 500ml on the bottom with a 100ml layer of a darker 
viscous stuff floating on top and a thin perhap 25ml layer of a milkyish color 
between the two. Anybody have an idea what I have?
Andrew Leven
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[Biofuel] bd in furnace and engines

[Andrew Leven]

Hi All,
What is the word on using straight bd in a Beckett 
oil burner? This is a new unit only having burned a few gallons of petro diesel 
to test it so it is basically a "virgin'. BTW this is a backup unit on my Tarm 
wood fired boiler. 
Also has anyone had any issues with the solvent 
action in a petro diesel engine cleaning the gunk off the inside of the 
motor and having it plug up vital item ie: injectors etc.? Once the bd gets past 
your fuel filter it any degunked stuff is free to pass through the motor 
unfilterd 
Thanks in advance
Andrew Leven
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Re: [Biofuel] alternative biodiesel process

[Andrew Lowe]

Quoting Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> 
> On Nov 2, 2005, at 6:02 PM, Jason and Katie wrote:
> 
> > OK, so if I were to put two plates 1mm apart then the voltage would
> > only be
> > supposedly 15 volts, but i would need more current as per the
> > volumetrics of
> > it? that makes more sense, but does anyone have the experience of
> > actually
> > doing it? what about equations?
> 
> 
> No experience re biodiesel, but the equation is E=IR. Volts = amps x
> ohms.
> 
> BTW, does this actually have any known or theoretical application for
> making
> biodiesel, or is it just armchair speculation? I'm not aware of any
> background
> for the use of an electric field to catalyze or accelerate
> transesterification
> 
> -K
[snip]

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg53877.html
http://tinyurl.com/ax4md   - From this list
http://tinyurl.com/cao7s   - From this list
http://tinyurl.com/93vqc   - US Patent Office


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[Biofuel] mixing and heating biodiesel

[Andrew Leven]

I am setting up my processor and want to use a pump 
to mix. What type and size of pump would be suitable for  15-20 gallon 
batch. Does it have to be resistant to methanol and lye mix as well as fry 
oil?  Also when using an immersion heater for the heat source is is 
critical that it also be resistant ie; stainlesss or can a steel unit withstand 
the mix for a long time before needing replacement?
Andrew Leven
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Re: [Biofuel] liquid liqid centrifuge

[Andrew Lowe]

Quoting michael skinner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> has anyone tried a liquid liquid centrifuge.
> 
> By continuously removing the dense gycerine you would drive the reaction
> forward requireing less methanol (the whole pont around the two step
> reaction)
> 
> please see
> 
> http://www.cheresources.com/centcontactor.shtml
> 
> I think it would be possible to build something along these lines cheaply,
> take that old blender and put it inline with your reactor?
> 
> mike
> in San jose ca

I've used centrifuges in the designs I've done "in my head". They do speed
up the process as you don't need to wait for settling to occur, which also means
that you don't need extra tankage. See my comments in the archive from a few
days ago regarding OFM mixing and centrifuges.

Before you start planning to "build something along these lines cheaply",
remember that these things are made of steel and spin at many thousands of
RPM's. Unless you're very good at machining and milling you could be making a
potential bomb, you only need something only the slightest bit out of balance
and the thing will tear itself apart spitting shrapnel everywhere. I've seen
pictures of when lab based centrifuges "go wrong" and it looks like someone
tossed a hand grenade into them. I've also heard of an installation of
several CINC, that's the company that provided the info in the above mentioned
link - Kevin Costner owns it, centrifuges at a biodiesel plant here in Australia
where they couldn't get them to work properly. The plant eventually dumped them
and went for a "standard" Alfa Laval type of thing.

Don't let these comments put you off centrifuges. Do some web searchs and no
doubt you will come across second hand/excess/scrapped centrifuges. They still
might not be cheap, but then again, it would make a nice experiment.

Regards,
Andrew

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Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from Sorgum please

[Andrew Lowe]

Mark Klein wrote:
> 
>  
[snip]
...
...
[snip]

> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 28/07/2005


WTF is this? I thought the list prevented idiocy such as sending 1.4MB 
HTML emails to the thousand or so people who are on this list. Keith, 
can the "good old days" of text and text only be reintroduced so that 
abuse such as this is not repeated?

If someone wishes to distribute something such as this, then place it 
on a web site somewhere and then post the URL to the list so that people 
can then go and view it at their leisure.

Please note that I'm not commenting on the value of the information 
that was sent, just the way that it was sent.

Regards,
Andrew Lowe

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Re: [Biofuel] Hoodia Gordonii ?

[Andrew Lowe]

Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> List members,
> 
> Does anybody know about this hard-to-find supplement for weight loss?
> It comes from a very rare cactus plant in South Africa.
> 
> I have a weight problem which could lead soon to diabetes.
> 
> There is a meager amount of information on the web of real value, a
> program on 60 minutes aired recently.  I missed it.  There are supposed
> to be alot of fake Hoodia G. products on the market now.
> 
> I would like to know if any of you very respectible list members have
> heard about Hoodia Gordonii.  
> 
> Is Hoodia Gordonii the real thing? Or the latest scam?
> 
> Thanks for looking at this email.
> 
> Respectfully submitted, Michael in Alabama

If this is the stuff that I'm thinking of, then it is a plant that has its
genetics under a patent that feeds the money back to the locals in the area
where it comes from. It's a bush that when chewed, suppresses the appetite,
induces a very slight euphoric effect and apparently also has quite a
stimulating effect on the bed flute. 

Drug companies are looking at the active ingredients for use in weight
reduction tablets as the tablets can be brought to market quickly. The reason
for this is that the locals in the area where the bush grows, which is a desert
area in Southern Africa, have been eating/chewing this stuff for centuries with
no perceived side effects - the men would take a small supply of this rather
than food when going off on several day hunting trips.

The article I read this info in is about a year old and they where still
talking about a few years until it appears in "medical form". Apparently
Southern Africa is the only place it grows and since its "discovery" by western
medicine, the locals have been very protective of it. I would be very surprised
if there are any "herbal" medicines out there that contain the real thing.

These are my rambling recollections of the stuff, but then again you may be
talking about a different plant to what I've just described!!! It's "food for
thought" anyway.

Andrew



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Re: [Biofuel] OFM Tube

[Andrew Lowe]

Quoting Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hello Andrew, John
> 
> >Quoting john owens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > > hi
> > >  I just finished designing and building a batch processor based on the
> > > journey to forever 90 ltr processor I now want to design an ofm flow
> tube.
> > > Is there any other sites other than cambridge That would be usefull.
> > >  John
> >
> >I've thought about this, but think that the OFM technology might not
> >be the best
> >for yields. I know that the Cambridge site mentions biodiesel production but
> >posts to this list make me think that the agitation may actually harm yield.
> I
> >base this on a post I made and the subsequent replies I got when
> >Mike Allen was
> >designing Deep Throat,
> 
> Aarghhh! Deep Thort! LOL!

I've just gone back to the page and had a look - I'm NOT EVEN GOING TO TRY and
explain that Freudian slip!!!

Andrew

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Re: [Biofuel] OFM Tube

[Andrew Lowe]

Quoting john owens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> hi
>  I just finished designing and building a batch processor based on the
> journey to forever 90 ltr processor I now want to design an ofm flow tube.
> Is there any other sites other than cambridge That would be usefull.
>  John
> 


I've thought about this, but think that the OFM technology might not be the best
for yields. I know that the Cambridge site mentions biodiesel production but
posts to this list make me think that the agitation may actually harm yield. I
base this on a post I made and the subsequent replies I got when Mike Allen was
designing Deep Throat, http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html
- I think it was during then, but anyway, someone was designing a reactor...

The designer had mentioned that they where using a motor with a gear box so
that the mixing blades rotate at a relatively slow speed hence not churning
everything up. I asked the question that wouldn't it be better to "flog the crap
out of it" so that there was rapid and complete contact between all of the
component chemicals. The reply was that due to the equilibrium (reaction
kinematics???) of the oil/methoxide -> biodiesel/glycerine reaction, it was
better to do things slowly and allow the glycerine to "drop out" of the reation,
down to the bottom of the reation, hence a tall slender reator is better that a
low squat one. It appears that the presence of the glycerine will hinder the
conversion from oil to BioD.

How is this relevant to OFM? With the OFM technology, all of the components
are in the tube, hence the glycerine does not get a chance to drop out, in fact
it is mixed up in the agitating components thus will probably hinder the
reaction. I could see OFM being good for commercial situations where you could
break the reaction down into, say, 3 parts/stages, the first part is run with
the source oil but only a 1/3 of the required methoxide - and some
glycerine is produced, but not enough to hinder the reaction. The results of
this are run through a centrifuge/settling tank with the glycerine being
removed, then the oil with the next 1/3 of the methoxide added is run through
the next section, more glycerine is produced, but once again not enough to
hinder things, the results centrifuged and then the oil plus remaining methoxide
run through the final stage, by now the original oil being fully converted and
the resulting small amount of glycerine centrifuged off. This is probably a
viable process for 100,000l/day plants but with centrifuges costing $10K each,
probably not for the backyarder.

Please bear in mind that this view of things is based on reading posts here,
a bit of other research and being a Civil Engineer, not an organic chemist or
Chemical Engineer. If I've misunderstood anything or got something wrong, please
feel free to correct me.

Regards,
Andrew

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[Biofuel] stainless steel immersion heater

[Andrew Leven]

Hi,
Where can I get a stainless steel immersion heater 
for my bio processor?
Andrew Leven
 Vermont
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Re: [Biofuel] New Diesel vans

[Andrew Cohen]

 

  
  
  Just wanted to thank Keith, et al. for this interesting, albeit 
  politically skewed at times list serve.  I learn a lot from the 
  exchanges, and am very appreciative. I'm not going to respond to the political 
  chatter, because I'm more interested in learning how do free myself from 
  fossil fuels, and hopefully save a few dollars
   
  A question for my esteemed teachers:  is any Diesel motor OK for bio 
  diesel?  I am thinking about going out and trading my Suburban in for one 
  of the new GMC Diesel Sierra's, or something else, if anyone has a better 
  suggestion.  I have a big family, and need at least 7 seats.  The 
  Chevy Sprinter might be a little big for my wife (she needs the car for 
  carting the kids to school, doing the shopping, etc.)
   
  I would consider getting a used VW Transporter, Eurovan or something, but 
  I don’t know much about automotive mechanics, and therefore am reluctant to 
  get a used car that I might have to take in for troubleshooting all too 
  often.
   
  So if anyone out there can point me in the right direction regarding 
  diesel vans, I'd be extremely appreciative
   
  And again, thank you all so much for your fascinating information, and 
  for showing us all that there really is a way out of this petroleum 
  morass.
   
  Very gratefully,
   
  Drew
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Re: [Biofuel] Looking for feedback on Biodiesel system

[Cohen Andrew J Capt 11 WG/HC]

Continuing along that theme, I, too, am looking
for people in the DC area to form a Bio Diesel manufacturing coop for sharing expenses
and responsibilities.  Any takers?

 

Drew Cohen

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Hurley, Edward R
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005
2:16 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Looking for
feedback on Biodiesel system



 

List,

 

 I was exposed to Biodiesel just a few
days ago and have been searching the internet since trying to learn what I
could. I have found several homemade systems and a few commercially available
systems. I was looking for open honest feedback on the systems available at
this web site: http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/home/home.asp
. The price is very high compared to the homemade systems, but the point asked
is “would it work or is it a bad system.”  We have 4 people in my
neighborhood who all use diesel trucks to tow campers or horse trailers and we
are very interested the systems available. I was voted the one to find out what
I could about how to make it and the systems available.

 

 Thanks,

    Ed

 

 






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Re: [Biofuel] Cornell on ethanol, biodiesel, & hydrogen energy efficiencies

[Andrew Lowe]

Bob,
Due to work pressure it's taken a while for me to catch up on this 
thread - a pity really as if I had known that commenting on a blokes 
lack of dress sense would have fired up a good debate, I would have been 
in there a lot earlier. Anyway, Bob, you need to take a long deep breath 
and count to 10. You have read so much into my comments that are just 
not true and a total distortion of reality that thatOh I don't know, 
words fail me

I think a major problem is that you're a Yank and I'm an Australian. 
Just as you can't spell colour, humour, honour, aluminium etc, correctly 
our national senses of humour are different. In Australia we poke fun, 
"take the piss", "hang sh*t" etc etc. Yes it may be ridicule but it is a 
national pastime here in Australia. Hold yourself up as THE WORD on a 
subject and someone will soon bring you back down to Earth. This is what 
I was doing - poking fun at Pimentel. If it had been Keith dressed like 
that with a similar expression on his face pumping biodiesel, I would 
have probably come up with a similar comment - the clothes and the look 
just screamed out "mock me".

As to the "blatant slander" comment, Bob please, get your hand off it. 
Look at the context of the comment, mixed in with a reference to The 
Goodies and the Russian Politburo. If you took that as slander then I 
feel for your lack of training in comedy/humour.

By the way, Bob, I do understand the scientific process, being an 
Engineer and having had training in Chemistry and Physics. The problem 
you see is that Pimentel has made these comments before and every time 
has been shot down in flames as being so far off the mark and just down 
right wrong. He is like the boy who cries wolf. He has cried wolf so 
many times that people don't believe him, and unlike the fairy 
tale/fable, there really is no wolf, just bad scientific analysis and 
bad conclusions.

In closing, may I just say that in the future, if you are a badly 
dressed wind bag with bad posture, who has been shown to sprout dodgy 
figures to drive some hidden agenda, then I will make every attempt to 
show you to be the drongo that you are.

Regards in mindless ramblings,
Andrew


William Adams wrote:
> Andrew,
> 
> I know you said it in jest, but the unfortunate effect of your sarcasm 
> regarding David Pimentel, one of the nations' outstanding scientists, is 
> to support the ignorant critics of good science who argue that, "if I 
> believe in a proposition, then anyone who presents evidence that 
> contradicts my belief is a malicious fool and not to be believed".
> 
> It is true that a few pseudoscientists acting as industry  shills will 
> (for a fee) produce a "scientific study" supporting any industry-desired 
> conclusion, but your implication that Pimentel is such an Exxon shill is 
> blatant slander, and I am ashamed to see it on the Biofuels site.
> 
> I assume that you wish ethanol's EROEI (energy return over energy input) 
> to be positive, thus making it a useful energy source as we approach the 
> end of fossil fuels. So do I - and so would lots of other folks. I'm 
> sure also that David Pimentel shares that wish. The difference between 
> you and Pimentel is that as a scientist, he says, "It's a great idea and 
> I hope it's true, but what if it isn't? So let's run the numbers and 
> seek the truth of the matter. If it turns out the EROEI  is negative, we 
> would be commiting a cruel and expensive hoax on the nation to propose 
> ethanol as an energy solution."
> 
> I am as disappointed as you must be in his analysis showing a negative 
> EROEI. And I look forward to additional valid studies testing and 
> challenging his conclusion.  But to lampoon his work because you don't 
> like the color of - was it his socks? - is not a worthy act on your 
> part.  I'm sure you can do better. I hope you will.
> 
> In all sincerity and hoping that your future jests will be more benign,
> 
> Bob A.
> - Original Message - From: "Andrew Lowe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 4:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cornell on ethanol, biodiesel,& hydrogen energy 
> efficiencies
> 
> 
> Michael wrote:
> 
>> This press release below produced the AP story that follows it.
>>
>> July 5, 2005
>> Cornell ecologist's study finds that producing ethanol and biodiesel 
>> from corn and other crops is not worth the energy
>>
>> By Susan S. Lang
>>
>>
>>
>>  Chris Hallman/University Photography
>>
>>  Ecologist David Pimentel, shown here pumping gas, says that his 

Re: [Biofuel] Cornell on ethanol, biodiesel, & hydrogen energy efficiencies

[Andrew Lowe]

Michael wrote:

This press release below produced the AP story that follows it.

July 5, 2005
Cornell ecologist's study finds that producing ethanol and biodiesel 
from corn and other crops is not worth the energy


By Susan S. Lang



 Chris Hallman/University Photography

 Ecologist David Pimentel, shown here pumping gas, says that his 
analysis shows that producing ethanol uses more energy than the 
resulting fuel generates. Copyright © Cornell University



[snip]

	Sorry for the late reply on this one, but with dress sense like what 
was shown in the picture how can anyone take this bloke seriously? I ask 
you. Also with that posture and the look on his face, has anyone checked 
for a pulse? It reminds me of an episode of "The Goodies" where they 
where shown using the Russian Politburo as glove puppets - aahhh I see 
it - if you squint at the part between  his left leg and the car I'm 
sure I see an arm with an Exxon logo on it.. ;)


Yours in jest,
    Andrew

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Re: [Biofuel] Cheating bully

[Andrew Lowe]

Michael Redler wrote:

Since you've been tracking Linux activity, I'm sure you know China's
commitment to Linux over MS as it's preferred OS. I don't remember
the details but, I do know that's a lot of freakin' computers! I'd
like to know if you have more info on that.


	Do a google for "Red Flag linux". It's a joint venture between China, 
Japan, Korea and one or two other Asian countries. Their intention is to 
get it working properly for the correct display of Asian text and then 
do a localisation for each country.




FYI: I'm trying to resurrect some old computers and found that some
Linux distributions can run on most computers going all the way back
to Windows 3.1. On the other hand, I've been told that Windows XP is
designed to begin having performance problems after a certain period
of time. 


	To put it bluntly, WHAT CRAP!! There is a big difference between 
someone sitting down with a blank piece of paper and designing a system 
to "slow down over time" and the just generally bad design of the whole 
Windoze ecosystem. For example on my home computer, I save NO user data 
to my c:\ drive, it all goes on the D:\ drive - it makes it easier to 
back up this way. Now for some reason I still have the "C:\Documents and 
Settings" directory, where I've never saved anything, at over 200MB. 
There are also services running that I have no idea as to what they do, 
and I write engineering software professionally for a living This is 
the problem with Windoze. It does things that you don't want it to do, 
it does things behind you back, it keeps stuff you don't want to keep 
and so on. Herein lies syour problem. Over time the system just gets 
laddled with so much gumpf that it slows down. Bad, not intentional, 
design causes the slowdown.


Some even encourage reinstalling your XP OS if you plan on

having it for a few years.

[snip]

	This is good advice. Probably after a year do a total reinstall and 
things will speed up again, but will then slow down over time. Also 
remember to do things like defragment your hard disk, flush out the 
registry with a registry cleaner app ever now and then and of course, 
make sure you are running anti-virus software.


Andrew

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Re: [Biofuel] Magnesol

[Andrew Lowe]

Chris Sommerfeld wrote:

I manage a small biodiesel lab at a school here in the Bahamas.  We
currently make about 250 gal a week.  Within the next month we plan to
expand to make about 450 gal a week.  We are always looking for new ways to
improve our processing.  Currently we use bubble washing in the wash/dry
stage.

Water is very presious for us and I am intersted in using Magnesol instead
of water to purify our fuel.  

[snip]

	Just out of interest, why don't you build a small solar desalination 
system - besides the financial reasons, I thought the reason people when 
to the Bahama's was for sunshine!!! I'm sure Keith probably has 
"squirreled" away on JtoF plans for a low tech solar desalination system 
that would provide you with the water you need.


	If JtoF has nothing, get back to me, I know of a simple setup that 
could probably be made for a couple of hundred dollars.


Regards,
Andrew Lowe


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[Biofuel] acetone

[Andrew & Tracey]

Be prepared to buy at least one new fuel filter, i replaced two in nine weeks. 
The first one was chocker block with rust and crud. The second one i replaced 
after 8 weeks just to be sure. The motor was starting to miss occasionally, now 
it's power on. Look forward to your upcoming results. A&T
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[Biofuel] re acetone in fuel

[Andrew & Tracey]

Hey there Keith, i have been running acetone now for nine weeks, i havn't done 
anything but check my budget spent on fuel. I averaged $45 AUS per week for 
twelve months B.A.(before acetone). I now average $32AUS p/w.The car i'm using 
it in does just about the same routine every week. I't an older car 
(expendable) a 94 Ford sedan, fuel injected six cyl. The wife uses it for 
dropping kids at school and pickups and her weekly shop. I have been adding 100 
mls to 30 litres and i only use high octane fuel, the most expensive you can 
buy here. The car has been reborn, the power that has come back is amazing. I 
guess the injectors have cleaned up a bit. A mate of mine is using the same 
fuel mix but he is using low grade unleaded and he says it has not made a 
difference that he can notice in his wallet, but his car seems like it has 
grown another two cylinders. It flys and i think thats why he hasn't noticed 
any money benifits, he has a lead foot and he uses shit loads of fuel where 
ever he goes. But all in all acetone has my vote and i will keep using it. I 
think some reputable investigation should be done on it and results posted for 
every one to see. I spose acetone will triple in price and knock all the 
benefits, cheers  A&T.
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[Biofuel] the water heats up

[Andrew & Tracey]

Yes it does heat up and when we come back from fishing we bring a couple of 
buckets of cool water and use the warm water to wash our hands/feet and stuff. 
cheers,   A&T.
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[Biofuel] soundproof your gen set

[Andrew & Tracey]

When we go camping on the beach we sure don't like a noisy gen set running all 
nite. We need sleep so we take a twenty litre drum with us ,dig a hole in the 
sand and fill three parts full of salt water. I have made an attachment that 
fits over the exhaust and runs down into the water. You have to make sure the 
gen set is higher than the water as there is a danger of water being sucked 
into the opening when you stop your gen set. We take a fold up pallett to sit 
the gen set on. With the end of the exhaust approx halfway into the drum ,all 
you will hear is a tiny popping and bubbling sound. From a few feet away inside 
a tent it will not bother you at all. We have a 3.5kva Lombardini deisel , not 
noted for there quiet running, but when running the exhaust in water it sounds 
like a sewing machine.  cveers,  A&T.
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[Biofuel] rubber?

[Andrew & Tracey]

Hi everybody, we have a question for all those technical and scientific members 
of this group and would love some feedback from those that understand this 
better than us. We have just read an article about rubber and are concerned 
enough to ask does anybody know much about it. The article suggests that (well 
it says) rubber is toxic. Is this correct? It doesn't mean the basic product 
but what tyre's are made of is a menagerie of toxic chemicals and that every 
day thousands of tons of it wash into our creek,river,ocean systems from tyre's 
being worn out on our roads.The effect of it will be with us for a long long 
time to come. There is no research into coral reefs falling apart from rubber 
that we can find ,but the article suggests it should be of concern to all of us 
still breathing whats left of our fresh air.It also goes on to say that bitumen 
is also toxic and that it grinds down slowly to do more enviromental damage. If 
this is true ,shit it is scary because every country in the world (just about) 
is doing the same thing. If you add all the rest of the eviromental bad things 
to this it's time to call for Scotty to beam us up, this planet is toxic.  
Andrew & Tracey.
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[Biofuel] re: bush and money

[Andrew & Tracey]

thanks for the comment, it make sense. There is one thing though that i have 
learnt from observing people, not just polititions that will allways be a 
concern and that is that desperate people do desperate things. When the 
pressure becomes significant on the bush admin , what will he do?  Andrew & 
Tracey.
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[Biofuel] bush and money.

[Andrew & Tracey]

I might be mistaken and probably are but it appears to me that now mr wolfowitz 
has his hands on a bottomless pit of money that he is going to give his buddy " 
ALL THAT IT TAKES" to get rid of the baddies. When is the next election in the 
U.S.? It seems that there will be just enough time to duplicate the Iraq effort 
in Iran and N. Korea. Does anybody else think this is a possibility? or am i 
just paranoid. One way to achieve it would be to drive oil prices sky high so 
as to fill the coffers of your mates oil company's,then they in turn could 
produce more fuel reserves for just an action. But that couldn't be because 
that would mean the bosses have an alternative agenda to what they are telling 
all the gullible little people. The little back slapping bum licking bloke from 
Aust might just wake up to how he has been used. Well anyway i just thought i 
would air my paranoia. Keep your bomb shelters in order guys, cheers.  Andrew.
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[Biofuel] diesel, is it cleaner?

[Andrew & Tracey]

Back in the 80's there was a report published about the findings of number of 
independant scientists investigating the effects of burning diesel fuel and the 
connection to the big increase of asthma in children. Not only did they find 
the two very much connected, they also claimed diesel was responsible for 
causing cancer. Do you know anybody who has died from lung cancer that didn't 
smoke? It also went on to state it was one of the most dangerous substances 
known to man because of the increasing volume of usage. Does anybody remember 
this report?. I know several people who do- they all own diesel powered cars. 
It's funny how we all think that nothing is going to happen to us, just to the 
other bloke. Does anyone know of any research done on the effects of biodiesel 
on the human body? Is it less harmfull? I hope it is as i intend to make some.  
regards  A&T. 
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[Biofuel] where can i start?

[Andrew & Tracey]

Hi everybody, my wife and i are new to this list and also new to making our own 
fuel. We would like to know is there anyone who can teach us or tell us where 
to get plans for making ethanol. We are in the process of buying a small farm 
in a large fruit producing area and have access to quantities of spoiled fruit, 
(eg) apples, plums, all stone fruit and lots of vegetables. We also have large 
quantities of scrap timber at hand and think we would be irresponsible not to 
try our hand at making fuel. Any help to get us started will be appreciated. I 
am handy with tools and have welding equipment. We also anticipate makin some 
dam fine wine,lol.  kind regards  Andrew & Tracey.
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Re: [Biofuel] Reskilling is Subversive?

[Andrew Preston]

Hi

Sorry, I've been away from Biofuels for a little while.
My father was a teacher, until he dropped at the age of 59.
My understanding of the most commonly quoted reason for the
large number of teachers who leave the profession while still young
is that quite simply the paperwork, the bureaucracy, the
tests gradually blot out their abilities, and opportunities to
do what they really love doing, the reason why they came into
teaching in the first place. Which was to teach, to pass on
their knowledge. 

At the end of his working day, my father would come home, and
really just wanted to have his dinner and go out to his garden
for the evening to unwind. I've come to understand why, but I'd
have loved for somebody to have occasionally patted me on the
shoulder and told "You done good..." in whatever reasonably
understandable form that might be.

Not every child/pupil/student is very bothered about the well-studied,
and beautifully articulated correctness of one's language. Though..., 
"Right you bollockbrain, stand in the corner...!" isn't quite to my
taste. 

Andrew   
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 12:04:18 -0600, "Kim & Garth Travis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Greetings,
> I am at fault to a degree.  I am involved in adult literacy, not public 
> education.  While I can understand a good teacher objecting to the
> teaching 
> to tests, when the local elementary English teacher told me: "you done 
> good." I can understand why some of the changes were made.
> Bright Blessings,
> Kim
> 
> 
> At 10:23 AM 3/3/2005, you wrote:
> >Howdy
> >
> >Kim & Garth Travis wrote:
> >
> >>Bush senior saw to it that literacy was well funded.  Programs went broke 
> >>under Clinton.  The funding came back under Bush W.  It may be the only 
> >>thing they do right, and I do believe it is, but accuracy in reporting, 
> >>please.
> >
> >This is not the way most of my educator friends see it.  Seems most 
> >teachers like neither the emphasis placed on testing
> >rather than teaching, and most importantly the "no child left behind" left 
> >the money somewhere else because it sure isn't going to fund the program.
> >
> >see for example:
> >--
> >http://edworkforce.house.gov/democrats/releases/rel21104b.html
> >
> >  Education Not a Bush Budget Priority,
> >Representative Miller to Testify
> >-
> >http://www.all4ed.org/publications/StraightAs/Volume5No3.html
> >
> >BUSH SPENDING PLAN CUTS EDUCATION BY 0.9 PERCENT OVERALL: $1.5 Billion 
> >Plan for High Schools Paid for Through Cuts Totaling $2.17 Billion
> >---
> >http://www.nea.org/lac/fy06edfunding/index.html
> >
> >Bush '06 Budget Cuts Education Funding
> >
> >--
> >--
> >Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob
> >--
> >-
> >The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises
> >in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral
> >justification for selfishness  JKG
> >
> >---
> >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
> >
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-- 
Andrew Preston

http://www.fastmail.fm


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Re: [Biofuel] question's

[Andrew Cunningham]

I would suggest that you replace the cigar shaped hose from the fuel
filter and the line leading to the lift pump on the injection pump
after you have run for a little while anyway.  They break down over
time and will need replacing even if you only ran dino diesel.  If you
buy them now and put them in the trunk with a screw driver and you
won't have to worry.  I'd also suggest carrying a couple extra fuel
filters in the trunk as well.  Once again, I'd make this suggestion
even if you were running dino diesel.

There are several good mercedes lists like mercedeslist.com and
mbz.orq - they are great resources.

Andy


On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 23:37:07 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hello luc, you scared me at first,thanks for the info. now i just need to 
> find somewhere to buy from, thanks dina
> -- Original message --
> 
> > G'day Dina;
> >
> > You can't. The car is crap, but I will gladly take it off your hands :-)
> > Just is jest. Good car, by the way.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From:
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 6:45 PM
> > Subject: [Biofuel] question's
> >
> >
> > >I was wondering if someone could help me find out how I can convert my 1980
> > >Mercedes 300sd Turbo Diesel to biodiesel ?
> >
> > You need to do nothing to it, it will love the B100 as is, however there are
> > things you need to be aware of concerning the filters ect.
> >
> > > I have been doing some research but have not been able to find out what I
> > > need to do to the vehicle itself.
> >
> > Nothing. The only "converting" that could be done is if you wanted to run
> > SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil) or WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil) directly in it,
> > but biodiesel is fully compatible to any percentage with your car. You
> > *might* experience some rubber hose failure, although this is not a
> > guarentee.
> >
> > >I am very new to all of this but am very interested in making it work it
> > >sounds so sensible I can't believe more people aren't aware of this
> > >alternative.
> >
> > We're working on it :-)
> >
> > >I live in S.F.- Bay Area so if anyone has information for this area I
> > >would appreciate it.
> >
> > The beginning: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html
> >
> > Luc
> >
> > >Thankyou. Dina
> > > ___
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Re: [Biofuel] Glycerin soap making

[Andrew Cunningham]

You should be able to use the left over lye in the glycerin layer to
make soap, but it may end up have way too much glycerin in it and end
up be drying for the skin.

Andy

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:40:12 -0500, Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Glycerin can be added to any soap. But it can't be used to make soap.
> 
> Glycerol is an alcohol. Fats/oils are required to make soap.
> 
> Todd Swearingen
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerin soap making
> 
> >
> > can some glycerin be added to new oil to make a soap?
> > Farmer Paul
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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> >
> >
> 
> --
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Re: [Biofuel] Re: BioD test batch

[Andrew Cunningham]

Keith,

You are awfully quick to assume something is bad based on its name. 
What do you know about the Dr Pepper method to be condemning so
quickly?

Andy

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:04:35 +0900, Keith Addison
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Thank you
> >
> >(snip)
> >
> >>I will cross reference your methoxide mix with my numbers as I have
> >>undertaken the same experiments comparing different processes
> >>(batch, two stage, acid base).  However, from my experiences, my
> >>biod is cloudy after 1 hour of stiring but will settle out rather
> >>well over night (12+ hours).  Furthermore, after seperation I let
> >>it settle another day (I get some more glyc on the bottom of the
> >>glass flask).  By this time its quite clear.
> >
> >My two batches have been settling to several days with no
> >appreciable change in clarity.  Some more details.  The Methanol I
> >used is technical grade and is labeled at 99.5%.  The KOH is lab
> >grade is supposed to be 99% or better.  The KOH has been open to the
> >air only a very little bit and seems to be still flaky and dry with
> >no clumps.
> >
> >I going to try washing it with the dr pepper method to see what happens.
> 
> In the biodiesel world, anything called "Dr Pepper" is not a method
> and is to be avoided.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> >Would you mind sharing your test batch process with me/us?  Are you
> >using NaOH or KOH?  New oil?  What numbers?
> >
> >Many thanks,
> >
> >Dana
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] Glycerin soap making

[Andrew Cunningham]

Paul,

Do you mean glycerin or the glycerin layer as there is a big difference?

Andy


On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 23:19:28 -0800 (PST), [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> can some glycerin be added to new oil to make a soap?
> Farmer Paul
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> ___
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Re: [Biofuel] Soap & aerated concrete

[Andrew Lowe]

Hi,
 I am searching for information on making aerated concrete. For those 

[snip]
...
...
[snip]


 Can anyone help me??

regards Doug

(I am interested in making tilt up concrete panels for a building.)


	A word of warning - get professional advice on this ie a structural 
engineer, before you actually use it. I had some experience with this 
type of technology in the early '90's and if I remember correctly, the 
strength of the aerated concrete, is between 0.1 & 0.2 that of normal 
concrete - 4.5MPa Vs 20 - 40MPa. If in turn you are doing tilt-up 
construction, this lower strength could cause problems when the panels 
are tilted - unless you get your reinforcment right, the panel will snap 
when being lifted, or are you tilting the whole forming bed?


	You might want to have a look at this site, they have some info there, 
CAD drawings etc that might be of interest:


http://www.hebelaustralia.com.au/

Regards,
    Andrew Lowe
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Re: [Biofuel] Glycerin soap making

[Andrew Cunningham]

If you have a sealed container with a vent line, source of hot water
(above 75C) and cold water - yes.  Run the hot water around the sealed
container or put the sealed container in bath of hot water.  This will
boil off the MeOH - add hot water as needed.  The vapors will travel
out the vent.  The vent line can be coiled and placed in a cold water
bath and the open end of the coil then leads into your MeOH recovery
vessel.  As the coil fills with MeOH it will push out the liquid MeOH
into the recovery vessel.  It would be good to keep that vessel cold
as well and have the outlet of the tubing go down to the bottom of
that tank so any left over vapors will bubble through cold MeOH and
condense (there shouldn't be any... but).

Goggle for batch distillation and find out what each X from a "XXX" jug means.

Andy


> 
> > -Or you could just recover the alcohol before burning.
> >
> > Andy
> 
> By evaporation...Is there an easy, non-expensive way of doing this using
> standard eqipment that could be purchased anywhere in the world (i.e. the
> UK)?
> 
> 
> JD2005
> 
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] Glycerin soap making

[Andrew Cunningham]

You don't lose anything as you leave it in there on purpose, it adds to the
combustability of the glycerine "log".
Luc


-Or you could just recover the alcohol before burning.

Andy
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Re: [Biofuel] Glycerin soap making

[Andrew Cunningham]

Tracy,

I am currently taking classes towards a Masters in Health Product
Regulation.  I have spent a lot of time with various FDA regulations
and the way I would interpret "most" is that it has to  more than 50%
of the final product.  Therefore you could take pure soap and mix 49%
dirt into it and sell it as soap.  Not many people would buy 49% dirt
soap, but it would meet the FDA's description of "Soap".  I would have
to lookup the definition of cosmetics to be sure, but the main
differences between soaps, cosmetics and drugs are what you claim it
does.

You are correct about the soap reaction, by-product glycerin can be
added to soap but cannot be made into soap.

My only suggestion on how to determine the amount of lye to use would
be to do small trial batches or some form of titration.

Andy


On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 00:50:47 -0800 (PST), Jeremy & Tracy Longworth
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My name is Tracy, and I am Jeremy's wife.  I am also a soapmaker.  There are 
> a few things that concern me about making soap with the by-product of 
> biodiesel.
> 
> First, imho, the wvo is not exactly the cleanest stuff to begin with and I 
> think there might be problems with the government in producing soap with it.  
> The FDA defines soap as "a product in which most of the nonvolatile matter 
> consists of an alkali salt of fatty acids and whose detergent properties are 
> due to these alkali-fatty acid compounds".  If I read the regulations 
> correctly, if a "soap" is made mostly of anything else, it is then considered 
> a cosmetic and comes under certain regulations.  True soap is not regulated 
> by the FDA: cosmetics are.
> 
> Secondly, soap cannot be made from primarily glycerin.  Glycerin is a 
> by-product of soapmaking and is left in handmade soaps or extracted from 
> commercially made soaps.  The soap is formed from the reaction of a caustic 
> soda and fatty acids.  If anyone is truly making soap from the by-product of 
> making biodiesel, then it would stand to reason that there are left-over oils 
> in the glycerin.
> 
> Third, there is no way to know for certain what kinds of oils comprise WVO.  
> Many restaurants don't always use the same kind of oil.  That being the case, 
> I can't see how one could accurately figure the amount of lye needed in order 
> to achieve proper saponification.  Every oil requires a different amount of 
> lye in order for it to properly saponify.  If one were to use too much lye, 
> the resultant soap would be "lye heavy" and too harsh for anyone to use.
> 
> I did also see written that the lye was to be added to warm water, I believe. 
>  I, and the soapmakers I am in contact with, add their lye to cold water.  
> When the lye is added to water, the resulting solution can reach temperatures 
> near boiling at times.  If one was to start out with warm water, the solution 
> could volcano and create quite a mess, not to mention it could also cause 
> harm to anyone around at the time.
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making

[Andrew Cunningham]

Let me just make sure I had all the details first, since some things
were left unsaid and require assumptions.  If I read what you are
saying correctly, I agree with Keith on this one and it doesn't appear
viable.

1)You make BioD with the Lye/methanol method
2)Separate out the BioD from the glycerin/soap/lye/methanol by gravity.  
{Note: You do not acidify the layer and convert the Soap back to FFA.}
3)Boil off the methanol (possible recovery but inmaterial to
discussion) and leaves you with glycerin/soap/lye.
4)You add water and more lye and mix

IF the above is what you are doing, this will leave you with the same
amount of glycerin, the same amount of soap, more lye and water.

The only way you would get more soap would be if you had left over
BioD or unreacted oil in there that didn't separate out in step 2. 
Even then you would still end up with lye heavy soap and it would be
very harsh.

FFANa+   OH-   (aq) <->Soap   and   water 
BioD   Na+   OH-   (aq) <->Soap   and   methanol
Oil  Na+   OH-   (aq)   ->Soap   and   glycerin

One viable option would be to take some water and unreacted oil and
add the glycerin layer (without the methanol).  Do not add anymore
lye.  The extra oil can react with the lye left over in the glycerin
layer and make soap.  You know how much lye you added so you can
estimate the amount of oil to add to use up all the lye from the
reaction.  You do not want any lye unreacted in soap as it will make
it very harsh.

I hope this helps, but if anything in the 4 steps at the beginning is
off let me know and I can go through the reactions based on your
actual process.

Andy







On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 04:15:03 +0900, Keith Addison
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Luc
> 
> As you know I'm a bit sceptical but do not seek to discourage! I'm
> most interested to see what you achieve.
> 
> >What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can
> >follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close
> >to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use
> >it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too.
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html
> >I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I
> >hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as
> >a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action
> >and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three
> >diffenrent approaches.
> >1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product
> >2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product
> >30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product
> 
> The amount of lye needed will depend on how much you used in the
> biodiesel process, ie on the titration result.
> 
> >Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps
> >above 65C (148.5F)
> 
> Well above - probably until it stops bubbling. Not something to do in
> an enclosed space.
> 
> >and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once
> >the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the
> >water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a
> >mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I
> >have it figured out :-)
> >The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was
> >going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a
> >portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but
> >the result was still solid bars.
> >The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they
> >already show more potential, primarily the third which began
> >solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise.
> 
> The trouble is it's not just glycerine, and if it were you wouldn't
> be able to make soap out of it - glycerine is an ingredient of soap,
> a non-essential ingredient furthermore. Soap is made out of fats and
> oils, and the fats and oils you'll be making soap out of this way
> (soap with a VERY high glycerine content) (and a high content of
> impurities) will be the Free Fatty Acids displaced from the brew by
> the NaOH. Aka soapstock or foots. Not the ideal material for the
> making of quality soap. From about soapstock/foots here:
> 
> The Fats and Oils: a General View, by Carl L. Alsberg and Alonzo E.
> Taylor, 1928, Food
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#fatsoils
> 
> Food Fats and Oils (1994) -- online book (Acrobat file, 1.3Mb):
> http://www.iseo.org/foodfatsoils.pdf
> 
> >I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along.
> 
> Please do, and good luck.
> 
> >No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used
> >eh? I am determined that it will.
> 
> There are other choices before you get to throwing it away. Before
> you get to composting it too.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> >Luc
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Re: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads

[Andrew Cunningham]

And I answered all of your questions and would like to know if you are
blowing smoke about the function of the beads or do you actually have
any information on them.

Andy


On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 05:55:18 +0900, Keith Addison
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I am still waiting for answers
> >
> >Andy
> 
> :-)
> 
> I hope you're not holding your breath...
> 
> From previous... I'll put it in quotes for you rather than the
> long-standing worldwide standard of >'s for previous messages, since
> you're still >-challenged:
> 
> "On the other hand, you didn't answer mine, why should I answer
> yours? Especially as I've already done so, though you can't see it. I
> told you to keep looking, but it's apparent you can't see for looking
> anyway... Go see for yourself. It's all right there, right in front
> of your eyes, but you see it as "useless". That's your problem. I'll
> leave you to play with your beads."
> 
> Also: "If you want to leap to the conclusion that all that means is
> that I can't answer, go right ahead."
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> >
> >On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 02:15:21 +0900, Keith Addison
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >Martin,
> > > >
> > > >I am using gmail and still trying to figure it out.  When I get
> > > >messages quoted text is hidden so if someone else doesn't snip I can't
> > > >see that.
> > >
> > > So you DO only go one level deep.
> > >
> > > >It would appear that there must have been 12 other times
> > > >that the discussion was not snipped which lead up to this point.  I
> > > >would suggest that all individuals who were not snipping be more
> > > >careful.
> > >
> > > Eight of them were yours, including the previous two. Before that, I
> > > left them in for your benefit as you kept losing the context - your
> > > confusion over pronouns, for but one example.
> > >
> > > The first message I can find from you with your "new" gmail address
> > > was on 5 Sep 2004. More than five months now and you still haven't
> > > figured out how to see previous messages?
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > >
> > > >Andy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:05:57 -0500, Martin Klingensmith
> > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > Andrew,
> > > > > Your message consisted of a single '?' character, and the entire reply
> > > > > (up to 12 replies deep) is 23KB. This means your signal to noise ratio
> > > > > was 1/23000, or about  .004% useful information.
> > > > > --
> > > > > Martin K
> > > > >
> > > > > Andrew Cunningham wrote:
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads

[Andrew Cunningham]

I am still waiting for answers

Andy


On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 02:15:21 +0900, Keith Addison
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Martin,
> >
> >I am using gmail and still trying to figure it out.  When I get
> >messages quoted text is hidden so if someone else doesn't snip I can't
> >see that.
> 
> So you DO only go one level deep.
> 
> >It would appear that there must have been 12 other times
> >that the discussion was not snipped which lead up to this point.  I
> >would suggest that all individuals who were not snipping be more
> >careful.
> 
> Eight of them were yours, including the previous two. Before that, I
> left them in for your benefit as you kept losing the context - your
> confusion over pronouns, for but one example.
> 
> The first message I can find from you with your "new" gmail address
> was on 5 Sep 2004. More than five months now and you still haven't
> figured out how to see previous messages?
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> >Andy
> >
> >
> >On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:05:57 -0500, Martin Klingensmith
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Andrew,
> > > Your message consisted of a single '?' character, and the entire reply
> > > (up to 12 replies deep) is 23KB. This means your signal to noise ratio
> > > was 1/23000, or about  .004% useful information.
> > > --
> > > Martin K
> > >
> > > Andrew Cunningham wrote:
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads

[Andrew Cunningham]

Martin,

I am using gmail and still trying to figure it out.  When I get
messages quoted text is hidden so if someone else doesn't snip I can't
see that.  It would appear that there must have been 12 other times
that the discussion was not snipped which lead up to this point.  I
would suggest that all individuals who were not snipping be more
careful.

Andy


On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:05:57 -0500, Martin Klingensmith
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Andrew,
> Your message consisted of a single '?' character, and the entire reply
> (up to 12 replies deep) is 23KB. This means your signal to noise ratio
> was 1/23000, or about  .004% useful information.
> --
> Martin K
> 
> Andrew Cunningham wrote:
> 
> >?
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Biofuel] 1" clear water pump

[Andrew Cunningham]

"What's the difference between having the tank opening at 3/4" on the
one hand, and having the pump itself stepped down to 3/4"? Do you
think giving the oil a head-start to build up some speed (and
pressure?) in a length of 1" pipe will make any difference? I don't
know (though I doubt it), I'm asking."

The difference is in the pressure drop along the length of pipe (50%
difference).  The 1 inch to 3/4 inch step down will create
approximately the same pressure drop at the pump or the tank, but the
friction in the pipe will change based on the size of the pipe and
where it is.

Andy


On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 23:49:37 +0900, Keith Addison
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I have a 1" clear water pump hooked up to an eighty gal hot water heater.
> >I used all 1" plumbing for my manifold with 1" full port valves.
> >The tank opening is still 3/4" but there should be ample pressure
> >pushing the oil through the opening.
> >How long should I have to run the processor to get full reaction?
> >
> > Thank you,   Jeremy
> 
> You're referring to this? "Re: New method for the production of home
> made bio-diesel":
> 
> >
> >
> >>I am building the Appleseed reactor and so far I have spent about $200 on
> >>lab gear (glass ware, pH meter, scale, etc.), and three steel 55 gal drums.
> >>Still looking for a suitable 50-60 gal water heater for which I will most
> >>likely spend $50 - $100 from a local used plumbing shop.  If you have a
> >>recycled construction materials yard there that would likely be a good
> >>source for wood or steel for racks and frames as well as the plumbing
> >>supplies.  I have decided to go new on the pump and vacuum pump since it
> >>would be difficult to determine the actual condition of used one.  Beside,
> >>you may not know what it had been used for which might introduce
> >>contamination into your process
> >
> >Be aware that the 1" clear water pump usually recommended for these
> >reactors is too small for that size water heater. Those pumps will
> >handle at most a 25-gallon reactor. So you'll have to extend the
> >processing time considerably to get a complete reaction, or use a
> >bigger pump. Or at least try using the 1" clear water pump at its
> >full 1" capacity, rather than stepping it down to 3/4", which will
> >probably mean changing the fittings on the tank.
> >
> >Also be aware that the arrangements on these processors for draining
> >the glycerine by-product do not achieve good separation and you're
> >quite likely to get some glyc along with the biodiesel to be washed
> >in the wash-tank, compounding the washing problems you'll have if
> >the process isn't completed properly.
> >
> >So don't just blindly follow the instructions as it seems most
> >people building these reactors do. Think about it yourself, figure
> >it out, step by step.
> >
> >Best wishes
> >
> >Keith
> 
> 80 gallons is definitely too big for that pump when it's fitted as
> recommended by the people who promote those processors, ie, stepped
> down to 3/4". I'd say it's also too big for it at 1", especially as
> you have a 3/4" inlet.
> 
> I don't understand this:
> 
> >The tank opening is still 3/4" but there should be ample pressure
> >pushing the oil through the opening.
> 
> What's the difference between having the tank opening at 3/4" on the
> one hand, and having the pump itself stepped down to 3/4"? Do you
> think giving the oil a head-start to build up some speed (and
> pressure?) in a length of 1" pipe will make any difference? I don't
> know (though I doubt it), I'm asking.
> 
> >How long should I have to run the processor to get full reaction?
> 
> I don't think there's any formula that can tell you that, there are
> too many variables. For instance, we might tell you something that
> was correct for an 80-gallon tank using that pump that we happened to
> know of (though we don't), but if your tank had different dimensions
> (say short and fat rather than tall and thin) it probably wouldn't
> work. You'll have to find out by trial and error. Use these tests:
> 
> Quality testing
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality
> 
> I'm not knocking the pump, by the way, we use one, for 60 litre
> batches, and it's great. I probably am knocking the people who
> recommended it for use with 200-litre tanks and more - and then
> kicked up huge unseemly smokescreens of denial and obfuscation when
> it was suggested here that it was too small for such a tank... only
> to admit it very blithely four months later on another list, as if it
> all the fuss they'd made here had never happened. Yuk. Too much ego,
> not enough of what makes people human, IMHO.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Keith
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads

[Andrew Cunningham]

?


On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:45:26 -0500, Andrew Cunningham
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wow, Andy, do you really only go one level deep?
> -answered as no
> 
> Useless?
> -answered as yes
> 
> Why? Wouldn't once have done?
> -answered as I thought you said you had info - but guess not
> 
> How do you manage so seamlessly and with apparent conviction to morph
> what is outright lying into mere "overstates itself" (which you've
> said twice now)? You'd buy a second-hand car from these guys?
> -answered as I am looking for info on the beads not the company and no
> I would not buy a car from them.
> 
> Ah, so it's my honesty that's in question?
> -no, just that there is nothing to support any claim about the beads function.
> 
> How about your honesty?
> -my honesty is fine, I honestly believe that you are implying that the
> beads do nothing and am looking to find out if you have anything to
> back that up.
> 
> No doubt Bush and Co. did at some stage say something about Iraq that
> wasn't an outright lie, perhaps inadvertently, like maybe that it was
> in the Middle East or something, and you'd buy their war on the
> strength of that?
> -no
> 
> You're quite sure I don't have anything to back it up?
> -not answered, but asked for you to provide answers to three questions.
> 
> There are your answers.  Can I please have answers to those three questions?
> 
> Andy
> 
> On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:41:02 +0900, Keith Addison
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >[You're misquoting me, for a start. I didn't say "the beads don't do
> > >anything" ]
> > >
> > >Sorry if I mis-quoted you.  That was the take I got on what you said.
> >
> > But you were wrong. And it was said several times.
> >
> > >Perhaps it was just a misunderstanding
> >
> > It's not a misunderstanding. If you're going to quote someone back at
> > them, rather belligerently as you did, it's careless and sloppy not
> > to check first to see you got it right.
> >
> > >so let me just ask a few simple
> > >questions:
> >
> > You're going to hold my nose to the grindstone, are you? LOL!
> >
> > >1) What information do you have on the beads working or not working,
> > >other than Meredith's story?  Remember, I am asking about the beads
> > >not the manufacturer or distributors.
> > >
> > >2) What did you mean by "It's a no-no, and so are they"? Please avoid
> > >the use of pronouns for clarity.
> > >
> > >3) When you said "You're quite sure I don't have anything to back it
> > >up?", were you implying that you have something or just commenting on
> > >my suspicions that you do not.
> >
> > Sorry, I don't like being grilled, nobody does. If you want to leap
> > to the conclusion that all that means is that I can't answer, go
> > right ahead. On the other hand, you didn't answer mine, why should I
> > answer yours? Especially as I've already done so, though you can't
> > see it.
> >
> > I told you to keep looking, but it's apparent you can't see for
> > looking anyway. It's also becoming more and more apparent how it is
> > that you can look at all that stuff (if indeed you did - glazed over
> > more likely) and say something like this: "The honesty of the webpage
> > author is not what is in question", twice terming sheer dishonesty as
> > "overstatement".
> >
> > Yes, Andy, you really do only go one level deep, and you leave the
> > history behind you too, though it's all right there below, no huge
> > effort to check what was said. Re pronouns and clarity, for another
> > instance, it was perfectly clear in its context the first time, and
> > the second time, but you've lost track of the context so you object
> > to the pronouns. LOL! Go see for yourself. It's all right there,
> > right in front of your eyes, but you see it as "useless". That's your
> > problem.
> >
> > I'll leave you to play with your beads.
> >
> > Keith
> >
> > >Andy
> > >
> > >On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 03:24:32 +0900, Keith Addison
> > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >The reason why I keep reading it is you keep saying that there is
> > > > >something of content there... so I keep trying to find it.  No luck so
> > > > >far.
> > > >
> > > > Uh-huh. Keep tr

Re: [Biofuel] PH meter calibration

[Andrew Cunningham]

Jeremy,

pH meters go out of calibration extremely fast and without proper
calibration with trusted calibration fluid you can be off in the order
of magnitude range.  Until you get fluids, I would recommend using
paper strips as they are more reliable than an uncalibrated pH meter. 
I am fairly sure that www.mcmaster.com sells calibration fluids, but
you could also check with VWR, Cole-parmer and the other lab supply
companies.

Andy


On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 23:52:16 -0500, Jeremy & Tracy Longworth
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone knows what PH the lye water for Titration
> should read
> on the ph meter. using the "better titration method"
> 
> I have made a good batch of BD using virgin oil, and have made alot of soap 
> with wvo because my meter is off calibration.
> 
> I am having trouble finding calabration fluid to calabrate my meter.
> 
> Thank you,   Jeremy
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Re: [Biofuel] New method for the production of home made bio-diesel

[Andrew Lowe]

Hello AntiFossil, 


I have been to the unh site before, but not that particular
link. It had a link on the site which was quite fascinating.

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/fy98/24190.pdf

Here is a quote from the pdf, and I paste it in answer to a
question I saw while reading responses. 


"In fact, the best approach for successful cultivation of a consistent
species of algae was to allow a contaminant native to the area to take
over the ponds."

I was planning to use whatever algae would grow. Looks like this
is the right approach! 


Although the immediate issues I am facing right now are really
basic. 

> How do I filter the algae from water?

	You basically need a centrifuge. A bowl centrifuge or a decanting 
centrifuge. You may be able to pick one up at a second hand plant 
dealer. Have a look at:


www.westfalia-separator.com/en/index.htm,
www.alfalaval.com
google for centrifuge

You might also be able to use a very very fine mesh but the problem with 
that is that the algae could quickly clog the mesh. Maybe send an email 
to the mob in Hawaii that grows Spirolena (???)


> How do I extract oil from the filtered algae?

	You basically need to find a method that will "mulch up" the algae and 
then use a solvent to wash the lipids out of the mulch. In terms of 
mulching things up, you could crush it, use ultra sound, or lyse them. 
For the solvent to use, have a look at "Lipid Analysis and the Relation 
to Chemotaxonomy", chpt 7, Vol 18, Methods in Microbiology. This covers 
methods of extracting lipids from algae for analysis.


	As an indicator to your yields, Nannochloropsis produces at the rate of 
40 - 50g/m^2/day and has a lipid content of about 60%. This means that a 
1 hectare pond will produce, assuming 45g/m^2/day, 45kg of algae a day 
giving 27kg of lipids a day. This strain of algae, according to the 
literature is one of the top producers so if you are going to grow "what 
comes naturally", unless your lucks in and you happen to stumble across 
a better producer than Nannochloropsis, then you production will be less 
than 27kg/day. Of course if you build a photbioreactor, then your yields 
will be much higher, but these things cost money	




Cheers, 


O'Neil.

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Re: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads

[Andrew Cunningham]

50/50 ratio
> > > > > > > >of Diesel to oil.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Do yourself a favor and try to find some other oil
> >sources. The stuff
> > > > > > > >you have is the worst type to work with!!!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Regards
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Bob Green
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >We will try some different oil when we get a chance. I guess my
> > > > > > > >biggest gripe is that the ad states that the product
> >does things that
> > > > > > > >it obviously doesn't do such as:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >"Decontaminates ALL types of vegetable oils up to 97% clean.
> > > > > > > >Removes all types of water bonded molecules from oils and fats.
> > > > > > > >Turns mucky and milky waste oil emulsions into clear (non-opaque)
> > > > > > > >burnable fuels." and on and on for like 20 pages (I just
> >printed it
> > > > > > > >out)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >At the end of our experiment we had the oil (that was extremely
> > > > > > > >diluted with regular diesel and warmed up in a hot water
> >heater) that
> > > > > > > >looked pretty clear go into the beads. What came out was totally
> > > > > > > >opaque (the pumps were on the slowest setting).I by no means
> > > > > > > >understand the whole chemical side of fuels or biodiesel (okay I
> > > > > > > >barely passed chemistry) but I do know enough to say that in my
> > > > > > > >opinion this product does not work in the manner that is
> >advestised
> > > > > > > >(and I think I was probably one whom the ad was targeted to;
> > > > > > > >mechanically inclined but not so chemically aware?).
> >Anyway, next time
> > > > > > > >we change our oil in the truck we'll see how the beads handle the
> > > > > > > >black oil and I will let you all know.unless anyone in in the
> > > > > > > >market for some slightly used Acusorb Beads??? :) (I also have a
> > > > > > > >bridge for sale) :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Until then feel free to spam away :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Meredith
> > > > > > > >"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >So unless I missed something (if I did please provide
> >the link) there
> > > > > > > >is no evidence that the beads work or don't work in any
> >capacity.  I
> > > > > > > >agree that the site is overstated, but I see no evidence that the
> > > > > > > >claims are completely unfounded.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Andy
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >P.S. Does anyone have Meredith's email address?  If I
> >could ask a few
> > > > > > > >questions on what was done, perhaps I could determine
> >what happened.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 21:00:27 +0900, Keith Addison
> > > > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hello Andy, Paul
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please read this previous message:
> > > > > > > > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/43433/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ... and follow the link there:
> > > > > > > > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37536/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What it tells you about the website itself should give you 
> > > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > indication of what they're trying to sell, quite
> >apart from all the
> > > > > > > > > sneers at stupid people trying to make that awful
> >stuff known as
> > > > > > > > > biodiesel. Naah. It's a no-no, and so are they.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Best wishes
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Keith
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Paul,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >"If it is as the web site selling them tells it" is the
> > > >key part of
> > > > > > > > > >the statement.  I can't seem to get any good
> >information on them.
> > > > > > > > > >Most of the information I have is anecdotal at best.
> >If I would
> > > > > > > > > >beleive any of the works/doesn't work stories - I would
> > > >also have to
> > > > > > > > > >beleive that meths and lye don't work to make BioD
> >simply because
> > > > > > > > > >someone couldn't do it.  I would also have to believe
> > > >that there is no
> > > > > > > > > >safe way to run WVO in an mercedes 80's diesel and you
> > > >can dump WVO
> > > > > > > > > >into any diesel and it will work fine at the same time.
> > > >I have read
> > > > > > > > > >anecdotal stories on all of these, but very little facts
> > > >to go along
> > > > > > > > > >with them.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Andy
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 18:11:57 -0500, Arbuckle, Paul
> > > > > > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > I have some questions about the Acusorb beads.
> > > > > > > > > > > what kind of product do they make.  If it is as
> >the web site
> > > > > > > > > >selling them tells it why use chemicals and other stuff.
> > > >Is the end
> > > > > > > > > >product as good a quality as the reaction method?
> > > > > > > > > > > I found three sights selling these products, all
> >at different
> > > > > > > > > >prices is there more?  All were resellers so who
> >really makes this
> > > > > > > > > >stuff?
> > > > > > > > > > > The web site selling them says they are a good use in the
> > > > > > > > > >reaction process. would you use filter and beads
> >with WVO before
> > > > > > > > > >reacting or after to filter and remove water of both?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Bill Clark
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:34 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hello Andy,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > A freind of mine is puting in a new stove and has
> > > >promised me his
> > > > > > > > > >old one. I
> > > > > > > > > > > intend it for regenerating the beads I have. As
> >soon as I can
> > > > > > > >I will grab a
> > > > > > > > > > > hand full and see what happens at 400 F.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Bill Clark
> > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message -
> > > > > > > > > > > From: "Andrew Cunningham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 2:05 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Someone recently replied,
> > > > > > > > > > > > "I did a quick seach and it turned up this
> > > >description of them:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.survivalunlimited.com/biodiesel.htm#techno
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It probably is a form of silica with the
> >additional salts.
> > > > > > > >If I'm not=
> > > > > > > > > > > >  mistaken industry refers to this as a molecular sieve."
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt that these are zeolites, silica compounds,
> > > > > >molecular sieves
> > > > > > > > > > > > since they have to be regenerated at greater
> >than 350F..  The
> > > > > > > > > > > > description states that these beads turn black when
> > > > > >heated over that.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Could we ask Bill to take one and bake it at 400F and
> > > > > >see if it turns
> > > > > > > > > > > > black?  Please Bill :)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Andy
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] Automotive Black Box

[Andrew Lowe]

Hello Kirk,

Now this is what I call useful information.  But I am curious, what do you
mean by "solid state" ?


	I would guess he is referring to the innards of the speed camera being 
of the same construction as the innards of a digital camera,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_camera

Andrew






AntiFossil
Mike Krafka
Minnesota USA


- Original Message - 
From: "Kirk McLoren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Automotive Black Box




If they are using solid state cameras for a digital image the silicon

[snip]
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Re: [Biofuel] Automotive Black Box

[Andrew Lowe]

I might ramble a bit...


Legal Eagle wrote:

G'day Martin;
I think it has something to do with an Orwelian world. What of the rest 
of us who are responsible drivers and have had a "perfect" driving 
record for over a million miles. Do we really *need* Big Brother 
watching our every step ?
I know the obvious misuse of this technology is not something that has 
escaped you. You know, stop at the next sevice plaza and have the DOT 
check your black box to see if you have been anywhere hear over the 
speed limit and then repirting you  to your insurance company ? Or 
better still, spot checks on city streets.
Why bother tryin to set up radar traps when you have one conveniently in 
your vehicle ? Immagine the savings in man hours (not) Isn't this sort 
of infringement exactly what a totalitarian world consist of ? 


	Ah ha, here in the problem lies. The "black box" that you are referring 
to was placed in cars after people claimed that they where in accidents 
and the airbags didn't deploy or they where in accidents and the bags 
didn't deploy quick enough etc etc. To "cover their asses", the car 
companies placed devices into the cars that recorded the cars behaviour 
in, if memory serves me correctly - see above disclaimer, the last 10 
seconds ONLY, before any point in time ie at any point in time when you 
are driving, there is only the last 10 seconds data stored - this is 
enough for the car companies to analyse the cars behaviour, speed engine 
revs' brakes, gears etc etc. and prove that the bags did work correctly.


	Once again if memory serves correctly, the first time this was used was 
in Canada when some "pissed idiot"^^^ drove through the tight old innner 
city streets of some city at high speed, well over 100km/h, and hit a 
pedestrian. He claimed he was not speeding and that the pedestrian "just 
stepped out in front of him", but someone, police, victims family???, 
remembered the "black box", and got it seized. It was subsequently 
analysed and showed that the driver was driving at high speed and was to 
blame.


	I think you can rest easy on the Big Brother/Black Box concerns here, 
for the time being anyway.


	On the other hand, whilst writing this, I did remember something that 
is a bit "Big Brother". Here in Australia the main highway, the Hume 
Highway, that runs between the two major capital cities, Melbourne and 
Sydney, may have camera's placed on it, in the Victorian section anyway, 
that will grab your licence plate just outside Melbourne and then again 
just at the border. If you have done that section of the  trip in under 
a certain amount of time, the government logic goes, you must have been 
speeding and should and will be fined. Haven't heard anything about this 
recently



But then,
there are some who actually see the good in Patriot 1 and 2, go figure. 
After all Papa governement is alwasy benign and would never ever think 
of using technology to do us any harm woyuld they, said he with great 
gesticulatory sarcasm. The problem isn't so much the protection of the 
innocent as it is an infrigement on every one else, not a liscence but 
an "I spy" in your glove box.
Drunk driving in some orient countries is only a first time offence (or 
used to be) as they hang you for it. I believe it was the Philipines, 


	Doubt this as the Philippines is a strong Catholic country and have no 
problems with grog - San Miguel, Philippine based, is one of the biggest 
brewers in the world. I have heard similar tales, but I think you need 
to cast your eye a bit further west to the region where there is a bit 
of a military fiasco currently underway.


but I could be wrong on that.I did however read it some years ago and it 
was in that neck of the woods. Concerned about criminal activity on the 
roads? Make the penalty not worth the offence and you won't need spy 
boxes in every car.

Luc

[snip]
...
...

I'm not driving tonight so now it's back to the beers and Playstation

Andrew

^^^ For our USA based readers, In Australia, and I think a good part of 
of the British Commonwealth, pissed refers to very very drunk, not angry.

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Re: [Biofuel] Train Wreck of an Election

[Andrew Lowe]

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0201-32.htm
Published on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 by the Boston Globe

Train Wreck of an Election

by James Carroll


In thinking about the election in Iraq, my mind keeps jumping back to 
last week's train wreck in California. A deranged man, intending 
suicide, drove his Jeep Cherokee onto the railroad tracks, where it got 

[snip]
...
...
[snip]
e couldn't be more securely removed
from the terrible consequences of his locomotion. Thus, Bush is like the 
man who caused the wreck, and like the man who was protected from it. 
Deranged. Detached. Alive and well in the bubble he calls "freedom," 
receiving applause.


James Carroll's column appears regularly in the Globe. His most recent 
book is "Crusade: Chronicles of an Unjust War."


© 2005 Boston Globe



	Am I the only one that finds it a bit ironic that Shrub talks about 
taking democracy to Iraq, the Iraqi people vote and get about 80% voter 
turnout, even with a major political/religious block boycotting, but if 
we look at how Shrub got into power and then re-elected, only about 40 - 
50% of eligible Yanks vote and in turn about 50% of these people, the 40 
- 50% of the population who voted, actually voted for Shrub. In terms of 
respect for the democratic process, I think the USA should actually take 
advice from the Iraqi people



Andrew
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Re: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads

[Andrew Cunningham]

ces. The stuff
> > > > > >you have is the worst type to work with!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Bob Green
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >We will try some different oil when we get a chance. I guess my
> > > > > >biggest gripe is that the ad states that the product does things that
> > > > > >it obviously doesn't do such as:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >"Decontaminates ALL types of vegetable oils up to 97% clean.
> > > > > >Removes all types of water bonded molecules from oils and fats.
> > > > > >Turns mucky and milky waste oil emulsions into clear (non-opaque)
> > > > > >burnable fuels." and on and on for like 20 pages (I just printed it
> > > > > >out)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >At the end of our experiment we had the oil (that was extremely
> > > > > >diluted with regular diesel and warmed up in a hot water heater) that
> > > > > >looked pretty clear go into the beads. What came out was totally
> > > > > >opaque (the pumps were on the slowest setting).I by no means
> > > > > >understand the whole chemical side of fuels or biodiesel (okay I
> > > > > >barely passed chemistry) but I do know enough to say that in my
> > > > > >opinion this product does not work in the manner that is advestised
> > > > > >(and I think I was probably one whom the ad was targeted to;
> > > > > >mechanically inclined but not so chemically aware?). Anyway, next 
> > > > > >time
> > > > > >we change our oil in the truck we'll see how the beads handle the
> > > > > >black oil and I will let you all know.unless anyone in in the
> > > > > >market for some slightly used Acusorb Beads??? :) (I also have a
> > > > > >bridge for sale) :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Until then feel free to spam away :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Meredith
> > > > > >"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >So unless I missed something (if I did please provide the link) there
> > > > > >is no evidence that the beads work or don't work in any capacity.  I
> > > > > >agree that the site is overstated, but I see no evidence that the
> > > > > >claims are completely unfounded.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Andy
> > > > > >
> > > > > >P.S. Does anyone have Meredith's email address?  If I could ask a few
> > > > > >questions on what was done, perhaps I could determine what happened.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 21:00:27 +0900, Keith Addison
> > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hello Andy, Paul
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please read this previous message:
> > > > > > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/43433/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ... and follow the link there:
> > > > > > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37536/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What it tells you about the website itself should give you some
> > > > > > > indication of what they're trying to sell, quite apart from all 
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > sneers at stupid people trying to make that awful stuff known as
> > > > > > > biodiesel. Naah. It's a no-no, and so are they.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best wishes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Keith
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Paul,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >"If it is as the web site selling them tells it" is the
> >key part of
> > > > > > > >the statement.  I can't seem to get any good information on them.
> > > > > > > >Most of the information I have is anecdotal at best.  If I would
> > > > > > > >beleive any of the works/doesn't work stories - I would
> >also 

Re: [Biofuel] Methanol Recovery

[Andrew Cunningham]

Reverse osmosis could remove the methanol from the glycerine.  You
just need to find a membrane with a housing that is resistant to
methanol.

Andy


On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 10:16:24 +1100, Andrew Lowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ken Provost wrote:
> > on 2/4/05 5:41 AM, Legal Eagle at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >
> >>G'day;
> >>I have just completed a simple condenser for methanol recovery, however I am
> >>still left with a question.
> >>Do I need to bring the glycerine to a rolling boil or just bring up the heat
> >>sufficiently to get the methanol to evaporate (148.5F/65C) not necessarily
> >>boiling ?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > That depends on the exact shape of the boiling pot/chamber and still
> > head, but my concentrating solar still used to start getting methanol
> > in the condenser coil ONLY when the glycerine was "simmering".
> > The question is -- how rapidly does vapor have to be produced to overcome
> > the rate that it condenses before reaching the downhill side of your setup.
> >
> > -K
> >
> 
>I can remember people mentioning other "equipment" besides stills for
> the removal of the methanol, words I can remember include "thin film",
> "evaporators", "vacumn" etc etc. Can anyone provide a few "buzz words",
> or links, that I should look for if I want to do a slightly larger BioD
> unit, 20 Kl/week, and do methanol recovery.
> 
>Any thoughts greatly appreciated,
> 
>Andrew Lowe
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Re: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads

[Andrew Cunningham]

> > >
> > > > > Best wishes
> > > > >
> > > > > Keith
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >Paul,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >"If it is as the web site selling them tells it" is the key part of
> > > > > >the statement.  I can't seem to get any good information on them.
> > > > > >Most of the information I have is anecdotal at best.  If I would
> > > > > >beleive any of the works/doesn't work stories - I would also have to
> > > > > >beleive that meths and lye don't work to make BioD simply because
> > > > > >someone couldn't do it.  I would also have to believe that there is 
> > > > > >no
> > > > > >safe way to run WVO in an mercedes 80's diesel and you can dump WVO
> > > > > >into any diesel and it will work fine at the same time.  I have read
> > > > > >anecdotal stories on all of these, but very little facts to go along
> > > > > >with them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Andy
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 18:11:57 -0500, Arbuckle, Paul
> > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > I have some questions about the Acusorb beads.
> > > > > > > what kind of product do they make.  If it is as the web site
> > > > > >selling them tells it why use chemicals and other stuff.  Is the end
> > > > > >product as good a quality as the reaction method?
> > > > > > > I found three sights selling these products, all at different
> > > > > >prices is there more?  All were resellers so who really makes this
> > > > > >stuff?
> > > > > > > The web site selling them says they are a good use in the
> > > > > >reaction process. would you use filter and beads with WVO before
> > > > > >reacting or after to filter and remove water of both?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > Behalf Of Bill Clark
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:34 PM
> > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello Andy,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A freind of mine is puting in a new stove and has promised me his
> > > > > >old one. I
> > > > > > > intend it for regenerating the beads I have. As soon as I can
> > > >I will grab a
> > > > > > > hand full and see what happens at 400 F.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill Clark
> > > > > > > - Original Message -
> > > > > > > From: "Andrew Cunningham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 2:05 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Someone recently replied,
> > > > > > > > "I did a quick seach and it turned up this description of them:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.survivalunlimited.com/biodiesel.htm#techno
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It probably is a form of silica with the additional salts.
> > > >If I'm not=
> > > > > > > >  mistaken industry refers to this as a molecular sieve."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I doubt that these are zeolites, silica compounds,
> >molecular sieves
> > > > > > > > since they have to be regenerated at greater than 350F..  The
> > > > > > > > description states that these beads turn black when
> >heated over that.
> > > > > > > > Could we ask Bill to take one and bake it at 400F and
> >see if it turns
> > > > > > > > black?  Please Bill :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Andy
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads

[Andrew Cunningham]

20 pages (I just printed it
> >out)
> >
> >At the end of our experiment we had the oil (that was extremely
> >diluted with regular diesel and warmed up in a hot water heater) that
> >looked pretty clear go into the beads. What came out was totally
> >opaque (the pumps were on the slowest setting).I by no means
> >understand the whole chemical side of fuels or biodiesel (okay I
> >barely passed chemistry) but I do know enough to say that in my
> >opinion this product does not work in the manner that is advestised
> >(and I think I was probably one whom the ad was targeted to;
> >mechanically inclined but not so chemically aware?). Anyway, next time
> >we change our oil in the truck we'll see how the beads handle the
> >black oil and I will let you all know.unless anyone in in the
> >market for some slightly used Acusorb Beads??? :) (I also have a
> >bridge for sale) :)
> >
> >Until then feel free to spam away :)
> >
> >Meredith
> >"
> >
> >So unless I missed something (if I did please provide the link) there
> >is no evidence that the beads work or don't work in any capacity.  I
> >agree that the site is overstated, but I see no evidence that the
> >claims are completely unfounded.
> >
> >Andy
> >
> >P.S. Does anyone have Meredith's email address?  If I could ask a few
> >questions on what was done, perhaps I could determine what happened.
> >
> >On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 21:00:27 +0900, Keith Addison
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hello Andy, Paul
> > >
> > > Please read this previous message:
> > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/43433/
> > >
> > > ... and follow the link there:
> > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37536/
> > >
> > > What it tells you about the website itself should give you some
> > > indication of what they're trying to sell, quite apart from all the
> > > sneers at stupid people trying to make that awful stuff known as
> > > biodiesel. Naah. It's a no-no, and so are they.
> > >
> > > Best wishes
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > >
> > > >Paul,
> > > >
> > > >"If it is as the web site selling them tells it" is the key part of
> > > >the statement.  I can't seem to get any good information on them.
> > > >Most of the information I have is anecdotal at best.  If I would
> > > >beleive any of the works/doesn't work stories - I would also have to
> > > >beleive that meths and lye don't work to make BioD simply because
> > > >someone couldn't do it.  I would also have to believe that there is no
> > > >safe way to run WVO in an mercedes 80's diesel and you can dump WVO
> > > >into any diesel and it will work fine at the same time.  I have read
> > > >anecdotal stories on all of these, but very little facts to go along
> > > >with them.
> > > >
> > > >Andy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 18:11:57 -0500, Arbuckle, Paul
> > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > I have some questions about the Acusorb beads.
> > > > > what kind of product do they make.  If it is as the web site
> > > >selling them tells it why use chemicals and other stuff.  Is the end
> > > >product as good a quality as the reaction method?
> > > > > I found three sights selling these products, all at different
> > > >prices is there more?  All were resellers so who really makes this
> > > >stuff?
> > > > > The web site selling them says they are a good use in the
> > > >reaction process. would you use filter and beads with WVO before
> > > >reacting or after to filter and remove water of both?
> > > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Behalf Of Bill Clark
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:34 PM
> > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Andy,
> > > > >
> > > > > A freind of mine is puting in a new stove and has promised me his
> > > >old one. I
> > > > > intend it for regenerating the beads I have. As soon as I can
> >I will grab a
> > > > > hand full and

Re: [Biofuel] Methanol Recovery

[Andrew Lowe]

on 2/4/05 5:41 AM, Legal Eagle at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



G'day;
I have just completed a simple condenser for methanol recovery, however I am
still left with a question.
Do I need to bring the glycerine to a rolling boil or just bring up the heat
sufficiently to get the methanol to evaporate (148.5F/65C) not necessarily
boiling ?





That depends on the exact shape of the boiling pot/chamber and still
head, but my concentrating solar still used to start getting methanol
in the condenser coil ONLY when the glycerine was "simmering".
The question is -- how rapidly does vapor have to be produced to overcome
the rate that it condenses before reaching the downhill side of your setup.

-K



	I can remember people mentioning other "equipment" besides stills for 
the removal of the methanol, words I can remember include "thin film", 
"evaporators", "vacumn" etc etc. Can anyone provide a few "buzz words", 
or links, that I should look for if I want to do a slightly larger BioD 
unit, 20 Kl/week, and do methanol recovery.


Any thoughts greatly appreciated,

Andrew Lowe
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Re: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads

[Andrew Cunningham]

l of these, but very little facts to go along
> >with them.
> >
> >Andy
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 18:11:57 -0500, Arbuckle, Paul
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I have some questions about the Acusorb beads.
> > > what kind of product do they make.  If it is as the web site
> >selling them tells it why use chemicals and other stuff.  Is the end
> >product as good a quality as the reaction method?
> > > I found three sights selling these products, all at different
> >prices is there more?  All were resellers so who really makes this
> >stuff?
> > > The web site selling them says they are a good use in the
> >reaction process. would you use filter and beads with WVO before
> >reacting or after to filter and remove water of both?
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Behalf Of Bill Clark
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:34 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads
> > >
> > > Hello Andy,
> > >
> > > A freind of mine is puting in a new stove and has promised me his
> >old one. I
> > > intend it for regenerating the beads I have. As soon as I can I will grab 
> > > a
> > > hand full and see what happens at 400 F.
> > >
> > > Bill Clark
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Andrew Cunningham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 2:05 PM
> > > Subject: [Biofuel] re: Bill Clark and Acusorb Beads
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Someone recently replied,
> > > > "I did a quick seach and it turned up this description of them:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.survivalunlimited.com/biodiesel.htm#techno
> > > >
> > > > It probably is a form of silica with the additional salts.  If I'm not=
> > > >  mistaken industry refers to this as a molecular sieve."
> > > >
> > > > I doubt that these are zeolites, silica compounds, molecular sieves
> > > > since they have to be regenerated at greater than 350F..  The
> > > > description states that these beads turn black when heated over that.
> > > > Could we ask Bill to take one and bake it at 400F and see if it turns
> > > > black?  Please Bill :)
> > > >
> > > > Andy
> 
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