[Biofuel] commercial processors
What processors are the commercial producers using? I need to find a sorce for one for a feasability study. Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] chicken tallow
Is the process to make diesel from chicken tallow the same as with canola oil? What is the fuel yield from chicken tallow? What are the cold weather characteristics compared to canola diesel? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] lite blend?
At what point does a biodiesel blend's effect become neglagable? I bring up this point after reading the directions on a bottle of "canola based fuel addative" that is made localy, and sells for over$15/l. The directions suggest to add 1 litre to 1000 litres of diesel. In my unprofesional opinion, 1 litre in 100 litres of fuel should be a minimum to get any benafit. Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Giving up
well, I have found a batch of oil that won't sepparate. I have heated it to 220f to make sure there isn't any water in it. It has been at 220f for an hour or so with no boiling. I have titrated it several times with a result of 5. I have made test batches at 5, 7, 8, 9 and 10 grams per litre with no sepparation, just a light brown soup that jells when it cools. the oil itself seams to stay quite thick up to 120-130f. Is there anything that could be in the oil to make it do this? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Cloudy oil
I just washed another batch. I did a shake test and the water sepparated within minutes. The water was clear, but the oil remains cloudy. My last batch cleared almost imediately after heating the washed product. Any ideas? Brent P.S. What are the symptoms of too much and too little lye? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] 45 gallons of cream(part 2)
Just a note from my last post. I took the temp of my failure to 140F and then had a brainwave to add more methanol. I added 4 liters to the 45 gallons. I had almost imediate separation down to about 4" from the top. A thin layer also was floating on top. Any ideas? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] 45 gallons of cream
I made a batch of diesel a couiple days ago that went perfect. I made another batch the same as the first that sepparated good. I added about 5 gallons of water to the 40 gallons of diesel that I had to wash, and heated it to about 90F as I did for the first. When I went back to change the water, I found 45 gallons of cream. I have reheated it to over 100F but it hasn't broke yet. Any Ideas? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] heating the wash
I noticed on my last batch, that if I heat the was prosess up a bit, that it seems to work better(no white deposits). Is this a good way to do it? My wash water comes staight out of the well and is very cold. Brent 6.2 diesel ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] heat the cottage cheese
the cottage cheese. I took it to 100F and everything cleared up. I then took the washed deiesel and shook it in a jar of water. It started to sepparate almost immediately. Any coments? Did I just need to use warm water instead of cold? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] wash problem
methanol,(18.9 litres for 80 litres of oil) and mixed for one hour and 15 minutes. Could the problem be not enough lye? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Disolved air stones
this problem? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] rereacting poor fuel
methanol durring the mixing process. Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] White stuff
diesel and the wash water. Am I needing more or less lie ro methanol? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Filtering before use
thinking that a paper coffee filter is over kill(not to mention slow). Would a nylon stocking work? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] wash water
with a lot of minerals. Should I use snow water, or R.O. water? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] old bio diesel
found greasy looking white deposits floating in it. I stained it and there is a light film floating on top. It also isn't as clear as when I first made it. Is it usable? Can I just wash it again? Any other solution? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] freezer test
50%, 33%, and a 20% blend. At -20c the 50% got thick but didn't solidify or sepparate, and the other two were ok. Are these results consistant with what is expected from a good home brew fuel? Brent Saskatchewan Canada 91 GMC 6.2 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] methenol recovery
Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] 91 GMC 6.2
diesel in a 1991 6.2? What milage are you getting? what blend are you using? Brent ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] Home Heating with BioDiesel
Will traditional anti-gel work to use bio diesel in -40 weather, or is someone working on one that will? Brent >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Home Heating with BioDiesel >Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:46:16 +0900 > > >Homepower magazine has a article on biodiesel home heating in the last > >magazine. www.homepower.com > >Thankyou, that's useful. Direct link (pdf file): > >http://www.homepower.com/files/97p1-47.pdf >p40 home power 97 / october & november 2003 > >Best wishes > >Keith > _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Problem #1: How much does heat cost?
For me it's a no brainer. There is so much waste wood around that I could do all my heating with it, for free, and have wood left over. Brent >From: "Steve Spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] Problem #1: How much does heat cost? >Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 23:36:44 - > >Calculating and Comparing the Cost of Heat > >We've all heard the adage "You have to spend money to make money." >The real >trick lies in how you spend your money. Would you rather spend >$100.00 for >electrical energy or $100.00 for a cord of wood? Well, it depends >on what >you get for $100.00. If we limit our discussion to buying heat and >assume a >cord of wood costs $100.00, how much heat will a cord of wood >produce and >how much heat can we buy from the electric company for $100.00? > >http://webconx.green-trust.org/2003/heatcost.htm > > > _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] High Gas Prices May Cripple Fertilizer Industry
All I can say is ...GOOD. But then I am a promoter of organic farming. I like to hear that chemical fertilizers are becoming cost prohibative. Brent >From: murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >CC: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] High Gas Prices May Cripple Fertilizer Industry >Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:45:19 -0700 > >http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/031010/1735000788_2.html > > >Dow Jones Business News >High Gas Prices May Cripple Fertilizer Industry -GAO >Friday October 10, 5:35 pm ET >By Spencer Jakab, Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES > > >NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--A study released today by the General Accounting >Office highlights the dramatic impact that high natural gas prices >have had on the U.S. fertilizer industry and the agricultural sector >that relies on it. >ADVERTISEMENT > > >High gas prices during 2000-2001 led to a 25% reduction in domestic >fertilizer capacity as production of nitrogen based products became >overly costly, the study said. It also led to a 43% increase in >imports of nitrogen-based fertilizer and a 7% reduction in usage >through a combination of crop selection and cutbacks. > >The GAO study cites fertilizer industry officials in saying that high >gas prices threaten to "irreversibly cripple" the industry. > >Citing more recent data, Kathy Mathers of the Fertilizer Institute, an >industry trade body, said that 40% of domestic capacity has been shut >despite a four-year high in prices of diammonium phosphate, the most >commonly used fertilizer. Ninety percent of the input cost of ammonia >is natural gas. > >"The boost in natural gas prices has put tremendous pressure on this >industry, " Mathers said. > >Unlike crude oil, global differences in natural gas prices can't be >arbitraged away, because the commodity is so difficult to transport. >Thus, many producers elsewhere in the world now enjoy much lower input >costs than U.S. fertilizer plants. > >"The ability to compete in world markets is not sustainable at this >level," says Kevin Swift of the American Chemistry Council (News - >Websites) , referring to the broader petrochemical industry. > >The co-chairmen of a congressional committee that commissioned the GAO >report, Rep. Billy Tauzin, R-La., and Rep. Richard Pombo, R-Calif., >highlighted the study as lending support to plans to ease restrictions >on natural gas drilling in the U.S. in the energy bill currently under >debate. > >"This GAO study provides another example of how high natural gas >prices have dealt a tremendous blow to our economy," Tauzin said. "The >energy bill currently in conference will go a long way toward easing >burdensome restrictions on exploration and development of these vital >natural gas reserves." > >The GAO report itself doesn't make recommendations on how or whether >to increase incentives for domestic natural gas drilling. > >-By Spencer Jakab, Dow Jones Newswires; 201-938-4377; >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Now here's a nice little joke
Well, if I had alot of money, I might concider buying a ready made system. The system on that website look very nice, and I can build one like it from that. The problem I have is cost of the components. I would love to have a conal tank system, but they cost around $300 each. So, I haven't got alot of money and I believe in using what is thrown away to make things, so the 45 gallon drum system is what I will be using. You make a good point. Brent >From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: [biofuel] Now here's a nice little joke >Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 14:29:05 -0500 > >http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/products_fuelmeister.asp > >Perhaps someone would like to convince me and the world in general as to >why >anyone in their right or left mind would want to drop $3,000 (plus freight) >for something an averagely intelligent 6th grader can assemble for 1/10th >the cost? > >Let me see.Consumer's wage of ... oh let's say $12.00 an hour at a >tax rate of 20% would mean 8 weeks of a person's life to buy this unit >(forget trying to pay for bread , light, heat and housing during the same 8 >weeks). > >This biodiesel business has more damned carnies trying to shark a buck than >Barnum and Bailey's. > >Todd Swearingen > _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis
I will stick to using a battery charger to make hydrogen. I am not a fan of anything radioactive. Brent >From: "Alex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis >Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:21:14 -0400 > >Here something about generating hydrogen from water. >Alex > > http://www.nuenergy.org/radiolysis.htm > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US & Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 3 Questions NO ONE wants to answer
I will reply to one of the questions. No I do not support nuclear energy. I don't think it is clean energy when it produces waste that is hazardess for hundreds of years. Brent >From: "Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] 3 Questions NO ONE wants to answer >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:13:02 - > >These questions are in reference to the energy crisis we are having >right now. > >1) Do you support the concept of a "Hydrogen Economy"? > >2) Do you support nuclear energy to generate electricity? > >3) If you support the "Hydrogen Economy" concept, what energy source >will we use to make the hydrogen? > >No candidate has responded to date. > _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> ReplayTV: CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! Instant Replay & Pause live TV. Special Sale: 50% off! http://us.click.yahoo.com/UUMW7B/.5qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What a scam!!!
Some day when I have more time I will tell all what I am doing and hope to do in the future. For now I am glad to see someone and a company that thinks like you do. Where I work, in fact the province I live in has nothing eco friendly when it comes to driving. We have 990,000 people and an area of 390,000 square mile. The company I work for has 2 manufacturing plants that are three hours apart, another in Montana, and a head office another three hours from here. There is alot of back and forth hauling between the plants. For example, a load of steel comes from the states, gets made into parts and shipped to Montana, welded, assembled and shipped back here. The people (95) who work where I do drive from a radious of about an hour away. Driving is a fact of life here, there is no way around it. Now if I can just find an affordable dieselhmmm. When I talk about the "scam", I really reffer to lies by the owners of the oil companies. They interviewed an oil representative about why gas prices wer so different across the country. His response was that gas is purchased in blocks and will varry between the east and western parts of the country. Hmmm...did he answer why the price between two cities 25 miles away are up to .20/litre different? Did he answer why the highest price in the province is the city with the refinery? There is alot going on that few people know or even care about. Brent >From: Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] What a scam!!! >Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:55:44 -0700 (PDT) > >Hello Todd, et al. > >My friend, you assume much without knowing me. Perhaps a little >introduction might be in order, so I don't get tarred and feathered >with your assumptions. > >I am Vp of a 35 million dollar Natural Foods company located on the >west coast of California. We have 29 employees. When we relocated the >offices four years ago, we drew a circle around the density of our >staff, and put the offices in the middle. >11 employees car pool, there are three hybird cars, and I drive an '85 >benz that runs on WVO. average commute is 5 miles, except for 4 of us >with longer commutes. >I have a 2 acre certified organic farm that we live on. Our well is >solar, I heat with waste wood (broken pallets and the like). >There has not been a soda (or beer)in our house in 12 years, we don't >own a television, and I have a nine year old daughter that seems to do >fine socially despite these set backs;^) > > >In essence, your preaching to the chior. > >My fuel price issues are very specific to the distribution and >production of healthy food at a price that all can afford. > >If commercial transport of foodstuffs were somehow taxed lees than >other "non-essential" consumer goods, I'd be all for $4.00 per gallon >fuel. > >The vast majority of people in this country have an "entitlement >mentality" that has them believing that there is little or no personal >responsibility associated with any life style choices. > > > >Todd, were all on the same page here > >The question is, how do we wake up the uncaring? > >Be well, > >Mark Osborne > >--- Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mark, > > > > What you fail to see is the relativity between what kind of scams > > people are > > willing to let slide and those that they are willing to whine about. > > > > Society pays more per gallon for Coca-Cola, Pepsi and the like than > > they do > > for the enormously mechanical and energy intensive practice of > > mining, > > refining and transporting and distributing fossil fuels. > > > > If you fail to see the irony in that, much less the irony in how easy > > Americans go into whine mode over a penny per gallon when people all > > over > > the Earth are starving, homeless, being shelled and bombed, much less > > pay > > better than $3.50 a gallon (US) for their fuel, then you're failing > > to see a > > great deal, much less "add...to [your] knowledge base." > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 7:01 PM > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] What a scam!!! > > > > > > > I fail to see how this rant is remotely helpful, or adds anything > > to > > > the knowledge base. > > > Feel better for venting? > > > Best Regards, > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Someone mind telling me what all the bitching is about? > > > > > > > > No one thinks the first thought of paying $2.25 a gallon (US) for > > > > carmel > > > > flavored and carbonated sugar water. > > > > > > > > Yet they whine like stuck pigs when the price of fuel goes up a > > penny > > > > a > > > > gallon, with ever increasing pitches of these shreaks with each > > penny > > > > thereafter > > > > > > > > Worst of all? Almost all of this whining comes from a country > > > > swimming in > > > > avarice, excess and gluton
Re: [biofuel] Re: Gas Prices Causing Alarm
I think we all say the same things and agree that something needs to be
done, but I like to play devil advocate sometimes and spin things like
polaticians do to make the same data look totally different. I hope by doing
this it makes people stop, think, and maybe do some research of thier own.
Getting people thinking is a first step, and sometimes it's not having the
right answer that's important, but asking the right questions.
Brent
>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [biofuel] Re: Gas Prices Causing Alarm
>Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:56:33 +0900
>
> >Just a numbers game I like to play, and maybe something to think
> >about. Looking at numbers of people/cars in a country add up
> >differently than looking at concetrations of pollution.
> >
> >The following are numbers based on number of cars per square km.
> >
> >United States 25 cars/sq km
> >Japan183 cars/sq km
> >
> >who would be a bigger polluter in that case? And do people have as
> >far to drive in a small country? Europeans that visit here can't get
> >over how big this country is and how far you need to drive to get
> >anywhere. Just a thought.
> >
> >Brent
>
>Interesting. You're quite right, there are far too many cars in
>Japan, especially as there are good alternatives in public transport,
>particularly in the cities. I'm sure most of the cars are not really
>needed. Also there aren't any old cars, excepting very expensive old
>beauties owned by rich folks - after about 10 years or so the taxes
>get prohibitive - hence the booming exports of 2nd hand cars and
>engines to just about everywhere else, including other OECD countries.
>
>But the auto manufacturers and oil importers lobbies are very
>powerful. Don't want to be rude (or do I?) but what you largely have
>here is lobbies in lieu of policy. Everywhere, sure, but it's a
>little extreme here, IMO.
>
>However, if you compared the average fuel consumption and emissions
>per vehicle you'd see a somewhat different picture. And I think the
>Japanese annual mileage per vehicle is probably rather low.
>
>I don't agree with the common American perception that the very high
>per capita level of vehicle ownership and those sad levels of fuel
>consumption ("we need big cars") are somehow necessary and inevitable
>because it's such a big country. I know that's not what you're
>saying, but many others say it, and have said it right here.
>
>There are other big countries where it doesn't apply. I used to drive
>a thousand miles and back for the weekend. In an 850cc Mini. Took 12
>hours each way. Big distances between towns. No problem. Europe is
>big too, but not so empty, so big distances take longer. Doesn't stop
>them doing it though - millions upon millions of northerners take off
>for the Mediterranean for their summer holidays, all on the same day.
>:-( It's far and arduous, but it doesn't take a massive gas-guzzler
>to do it.
>
>Best
>
>Keith
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >Heard a statistic on the radio today. Americans now have more
> >cars than
> > > >drivers. Each household has 1.9 cars and 1.8 drivers. Interesting.
> > > >Brent
> > >
> > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?
> >tmpl=story&cid=542&ncid=718&e=9&u=/ap
> > > /20030829/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/outnumbered_by_cars
> > > Cars, Trucks Now Outnumber Drivers
> > > Fri Aug 29, 6:19 PM ET
> > > By LESLIE MILLER, Associated Press Writer
> > > WASHINGTON - For the first time, the typical American family has
> >more
> > > vehicles in the garage than licensed drivers in the house.
> > > [more]
> > >
> > > Figures from I think two years ago:
> > >
> > > USA - Number of People per Motor Vehicle: 1.3
> > > Germany - Number of People per Motor Vehicle: 1.9
> > > France - Number of People per Motor Vehicle: 1.9
> > > Japan - Number of People per Motor Vehicle: 1.8
> > > Australia - Number of People per Motor Vehicle: 1.7
> > > India - Number of People per Motor Vehicle: 142.9
> > > Sudan - Number of People per Motor Vehicle: 100
> > >
> > > ... and so on.
> > >
> > > Best
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
>
>
>
_
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Re: [biofuel] What a scam!!!
I dont care much about the price of gas, it's the taxes that are most of the problem. Anyone who drives through Saskatchewan would never guess that we have a road tax on gas. when our gas price was about .60/litre, the price of gas was only .28/litre. G.S.T., P.S.T., road tax, and a couple more I think. Anyone making and using biodiesel should be driving past gas stations laughing...lol. Brent >From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [biofuel] What a scam!!! >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:59:19 -0500 > >Someone mind telling me what all the bitching is about? > >No one thinks the first thought of paying $2.25 a gallon (US) for carmel >flavored and carbonated sugar water. > >Yet they whine like stuck pigs when the price of fuel goes up a penny a >gallon, with ever increasing pitches of these shreaks with each penny >thereafter > >Worst of all? Almost all of this whining comes from a country swimming in >avarice, excess and glutonous consumption. > >Do some people some good for a change to get off their fat asses and walk >to >the corner beer market for a change. > >Todd Swearingen > >- Original Message - >From: "Brent" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 9:48 AM >Subject: [biofuel] What a scam!!! > > > > Well, the price of gas went up again, now at .81.9/litre. The > > reason? The blackout in the east. Well our refineries here in the > > west never had a blackout. What's up with that? Someone is getting > > screwed > > > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Gas Prices Causing Alarm
Heard a statistic on the radio today. Americans now have more cars than drivers. Each household has 1.9 cars and 1.8 drivers. Interesting. Brent >From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Gas Prices Causing Alarm >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:06:31 -0500 > >Bank on this about 75% of the road miles that Americans put on their >autos could easily be eliminated. > >Wake up. It's time for Americans to stop whining about their inconveniences >when the rest of the world is up to its eyeballs in desparations of far >worse nature. > >'Bout time to just start carrying an extra case of socks with me wherever I >go... simply to be able to stuff a sock in the mouths of the childish >whimperers that bellyache with every drop they pour into their gas hogs. > >Todd Swearingen > >- Original Message - >From: "murdoch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Cc: ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 12:47 PM >Subject: [biofuel] Gas Prices Causing Alarm > > > > http://www.marinij.com/Stories/0,1413,234~26641~1601597,00.html > > > > I do think it's possible we'll see some abatement of this situation > > going forward, such as with increased output from Iran. > > > > But in the short-term, those of us who know just how easy it would > > have been for the alternatives to be in place during this crisis can > > only watch with our mixed thoughts. Most folks cannot go out and buy > > a highway capable EV (because the Auto Companies refuse to make *any* > > available to the public, at *any* price), or a diesel that could use > > biodiesel (because so few diesel passenger cars are for sale in the > > U.S.) and there aren't many other alternatives. Those cars that are > > outfitted to use E-85 may not be near the rare E-85 station. > > > > Sure, there are some partial alternatives for some, like public > > transportation and changing one's habits. Each will have to find some > > solution, within the confines of the artificially narrow set of > > choices offered by the auto and fuel companies. > > > > Personally, I predict that these high prices may come down in a few > > weeks. I also predict that higher public officials will use that as > > an excuse to ignore the rotten shutting-out of alternatives, while the > > man on the street will quietly look askance at the situation, knowing > > that this was only a taste, and that inevitably, this could possibly > > get much worse. > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Gas Prices Causing Alarm
Nothing will ever make sense when it comes to government and large companies. You will never get the truth from any official. And no one will listen to the conspirecy theories from the average person. So, the answer is to do what we do, and make our lives a little better and let things go on the way they will. Why do the prices of energy not appear to be related to supply and demand like they want us to believe? Why is the price for electricity highest next to a group of power generation projects? Why does the price of gasoline rise in western Canada when there is a blackout in eastern Canada, when we have more oil here than the middle east? Why can I drive into the states and buy Canadian products like gas and lumber cheaper than I get it here? Just a few questions. Brent >From: murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >CC: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED], >[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [biofuel] Gas Prices Causing Alarm >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:47:20 -0700 > >http://www.marinij.com/Stories/0,1413,234~26641~1601597,00.html > >I do think it's possible we'll see some abatement of this situation >going forward, such as with increased output from Iran. > >But in the short-term, those of us who know just how easy it would >have been for the alternatives to be in place during this crisis can >only watch with our mixed thoughts. Most folks cannot go out and buy >a highway capable EV (because the Auto Companies refuse to make *any* >available to the public, at *any* price), or a diesel that could use >biodiesel (because so few diesel passenger cars are for sale in the >U.S.) and there aren't many other alternatives. Those cars that are >outfitted to use E-85 may not be near the rare E-85 station. > >Sure, there are some partial alternatives for some, like public >transportation and changing one's habits. Each will have to find some >solution, within the confines of the artificially narrow set of >choices offered by the auto and fuel companies. > >Personally, I predict that these high prices may come down in a few >weeks. I also predict that higher public officials will use that as >an excuse to ignore the rotten shutting-out of alternatives, while the >man on the street will quietly look askance at the situation, knowing >that this was only a taste, and that inevitably, this could possibly >get much worse. _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] milk fat
I am assuming that is what was meant in the original post. What would the process be for making diesel from butter? I assume it would be the same as for WVO. Brent >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] milk fat >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:29:34 +0900 > >Hi Brent > >When you say "cow's milk fat" you mean butter? > >Best > >Keith > > > >The link works. > > > > > >On Wednesday, August 27, 2003, at 04:22 AM, Brent S wrote: > > > > > Is the process the same? Your link didn't work for me. > > > Brent > > > > > > > > >> From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > >> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > >> Subject: Re: [biofuel] milk fat > > >> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 00:27:07 -0700 > > >> > > >> Yes. > > >> > > >> http://www.ecoliving.co.nz/Ecoliving/mag/issue4/Biodiesel%20- > > >> %20The%20Fuel%20of%20the%20Future.htm > > >> > > >> > > >> On Monday, August 25, 2003, at 07:56 PM, carreragt41991 wrote: > > >> > > >>> Hi, > > >>> Can I use cow's milk fat to make biodiesel. > > >>> Thanks > _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] methanol
When I contacted methanex, they would sell traincar loads to me but nothing small enough to be practical. I payed about $6/4litres here in Saskatchewan, and $30/20litres. I did get a sourse in Regina for a drum but am hoping the price will be low when I get one. The price goes up in the winter due to an unusual habit of the processing plant having a breakdown every fall. When I priced some in may it was about .80/liter, but the normal price should have been about .50-.60/litre. This is from Brentag. Brent >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] methanol >Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:46:33 +0900 > >carreragt41991 wrote: > > >Hi, > >I'm interested where in Ontario, Canada I can get cheap methanol, (I > >live in London). I need it to make bio-diesel. In Canadian Tire the > >price of a galon of methol hydrate is $7.85 plus tax. > >Thanx > >Methanex -- one of the largest suppliers in the world. Sales >inquiries [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone (800) 661-8851 (toll free in >North America), (604) 661-2600 Fax (604) 661-2676. Mail 1800 >Waterfront Centre, 200 Burrard Street, Vancouver, BC, V6C 3M1, CANADA. >http://www.methanex.com/ >Current Methanol Prices Worldwide >http://www.methanex.com/methanol/currentprice.htm >Please note: >Methanex has filed a NAFTA case for US $1 billion over California's >decision to phase out the noxious gasoline additive MTBE. "Methanex >company is attempting to hold taxpayers hostage to the tune of nearly >$1 billion, or 1.2 percent of our state budget, because we had the >nerve to ban a product that was contaminating water supplies all over >the state" -- Earthjustice. > >http://www.earthisland.org/eijournal/fall98/eia_fall98bluewater.html >"Is There Gas in Your Glass?" -- the true scope of the MTBE problem: > >http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 >/12/14/MN18353.DTL >MTBE Leaks A Ticking Bomb / Gas additive taints water nationwide > >http://www.carbohydrateeconomy.org/ceic/news/news.cfm?news_id=61 >The MTBE Cover-Up > _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] milk fat
Is the process the same? Your link didn't work for me. Brent >From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] milk fat >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 00:27:07 -0700 > >Yes. > >http://www.ecoliving.co.nz/Ecoliving/mag/issue4/Biodiesel%20- >%20The%20Fuel%20of%20the%20Future.htm > > >On Monday, August 25, 2003, at 07:56 PM, carreragt41991 wrote: > > > Hi, > > Can I use cow's milk fat to make biodiesel. > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > -~--> > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM > > - > > ~-> > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Cost to make Biodiesil from WVO
My first batch was .70/litre, my second was .60/litre, and my next batch (110 litres) will cost .30/litre, which is about$1.20/ US gallon. Here the price of petolium diesel is about .70/litre. The main cost is the methanol. Brent >From: "JHP31" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] Cost to make Biodiesil from WVO >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:45:41 - > > What is the ultimate cost of a gallon of BD using the different >processing systems? Is it cheaper than Petroleum diesil? > > _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Question
Keith "For one instance, what do householders do with it? Waste collection/recycling isn't very effective unless it starts at the source. That it only very seldom goes further than industrial/commercial sources shows how poorly it's addressed. There are quite a few cases here in Japan where groups of householders have started initiatives to recycle their WVO, it grows and spreads, at least one of these groups now makes biodiesel. There's interest in this among the customers (direct marketing) of some of our organic farming friends here in collecting their WVO so the farmers can run their tractors on biodiesel. But it's not happening there? Only a matter of time." I am not sure how much oil they use in Japan, but in our house we don't have any to throw out. We use it as a light coat for cooking. We go through about a litre every two months or so, including what's used in baking. The home oil use is very small here. >You just can't call that "the city's production" - 350 gallons a week >from a 40-retaurant city? Is that 1% of the city's production or 2% >maybe? What's the population (again)? That would be total production. City of 20,000 people. I get the oil from one of the restaurants, about 30 litres every week to week and a half. >"Operating around 4,000 locomotives, the Indian Railways consumes >around 1.67 million tonnes of diesel of the total 37.94 million >utilised in India. > >"Once commercial production of bio-diesel starts in five years, the >railways expects to use bio-diesel in all the locomotives. I am sure that it's not all from WVO. We already have one company here making bio diesel from canola oil as an addative and selling it for $15/litre. They recomend using it at .01% in diesel. I think they are making some profit...lol. >We supply biodiesel for six (or is it more than that?) local farmers' >tractors here, and three or more of those will be making their own >come the winter (when they have more time for new things). Two points here, how big are the farms? How much do they consume? And second, using bio diesel here is a seasonal thing. At best we have about 6 months where we can use any regular diesel, then its that thinned out winter diesel and then use anti gel. >BUT these are not tractors that burn 10 gallons per hour - and I'm not >going to >say "granted" that they're not: such tractors are not sustainable, >and not a part of a sustainable farming system. And I'm afraid that's >that - the end is in sight for huge monocrop deserts calling >themselves "farms". I agree totally on the issue of the big farms. My dad has an organic farm and uses out dated equipment to farm a couple hundred acres. But most of the farmers around him and in this provinve for that mater would average between 5000 and 15000 acres and have a few of those 10-15 gallons an hour tractors. Fuel comanies no longer deliver to their yard, they deliver to the field. Things won't change untill companies like Monsanto stop brainwashing the ag industry. >You haven't at all put a case for maximised use of the available WVO >resources, not even in your situation. I have done my research. I know what is available here. I have even suggested taking the screenings from flax seed that has alot of wild mustard in it and crushing it for oil. It will take time, but it will happen. >- There isn't "enough" for full replacement, so let's forget the >whole thing, and never mind what can be achieved, and how that could >be expanded, and also never mind contributions from other potential >solutions, and never mind too that it's sheer fantasy that future >fuel consumption patterns will simply be what they are today plus >growth projections based on past use. I have never said that!! I just state that if I was to make diesel, and had an oil furnace and a diesel vehicle, I would use all the WVO in the city for myself. Then, the company that collects it would remove all the bins from the retaurant and I would have to replace them with my own. I am only one person with very limited resourses, not in a position to put a WVO bin behind every restaurant. Brent _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROT
Re: [biofuels-biz] Question
>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Question >Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 04:21:32 +0900 > > >There isn't enough WVO to address the vehicle diesel replacement, but it >is > >a good idea to use it where you can. People look at me funny when I say >to > >try bio diesel, and I don't have a diesel myself yet. If I wanted to run >a > >oil furnace and a diesel vehicle, I would have a hard time to get enough >WVO > >from the city where I live near. > > > >Brent > >I think, Brent, that that is only true for the same reason that >people look at you funny. The oil's there, for sure, put it just >isn't pointed in the right direction (at the fuel tank!) because >people aren't thinking straight. Yet. They're not "hungry" enough >(yet), they can still afford to be sloppy and wasteful about it - or >at least they think they can. A *very* conservative estimate is 1kg >of WVO per capita per year. How many folks in that city? Can even >that much be accounted for? I bet not. > >Also, WVO isn't the only resource available. Please see these >previous messages: > >http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=18699&list=BIOFUEL > >http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=1395&list=BIOFUELS-BIZ > >http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=1801&list=BIOFUELS-BIZ > >I've just posted a response to a Biofuel list message saying this: > > >What is stopping these resources from being fully exploited? > > > >- BILLIONS of gallons of waste vegetable oil produced in the US a > >year, very little of which is accounted for, most of which gets > >added to the waste stream - the fact that nobody even knows how much > >of it there is would be a good indication of how seriously it's > >regarded; > > > >- BILLIONS of gallons - more than 4 billion - of **surplus** soy > >oil, which is the by-product, the feed-cake is the "product"; > > > >- BILLIONS of bushels of surplus corn - the cheapest thing for > >Americans to burn in their woodstoves, while the ADMs and Cargills > >of this world that turn some of it into ethanol apparently haven't > >even yet realized that there's OIL in it too, which shows just how > >much attention they've been paying. > > > >It seems the rapeseed (canola) *plant* - not the seeds, the plant > >residue - contains 13% oil, where have you ever heard of that being > >exploited? > >I guess that's why a lot of biofuellers, especially homebrewers, >regard it almost as a mission, guerrilla biofuelling - let's face it, >if we wait around for the powers-that-be to take the lead the sky >will fall on our heads first. Literally. > > > >From: "Mike Johnston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com > > >To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: [biofuels-biz] Question > > >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 02:35:39 -0400 > > > > > >Hi, > > >I mostly see Biodiesel being discussed as an automotive fuel. >couldn't > > >it just as easily be used as #2 heating oil or even kerosene? > >Heating oil is the main application of biodiesel in Italy, which is a >major producer. > >In fact there's been a lot of discussion on the two lists of using >biodiesel in heating furnaces. Some people just do it and have no >problems (as long as it's washed), others have to make adjustments to >their furnaces or get special parts, but a lot of people are using it >as heating oil. > > >That opens up > > >a whole new market as many people still have oil heat in their homes >and > > >more use kerosene heaters. > >Kerosene heaters can be a problem. It's said biodiesel won't travel >up a wick. Actually it will, but it depends on what sort of wick, and >how it's set up. Nonetheless, we've wrecked two kero heaters with >biodiesel. :-( But we'll get it right next time! > > > >Or how about mixing in extra ethanol after the Biodiesel is made >and > > >using it like gasoline? > >You mean in a spark ignition engine? That won't work. Get a diesel - >they're better motors, more economical, and cleaner, especially if >you use biodiesel. > > >Has anyone ever done this stuff? where can I see > > >info? > >I strongly suggest you spend some time browsing in the archives. The >list archives (link at the end of every message) is a treasure house >of information on all aspects of biofuels, especially biodiesel - the >Biofuels-biz and Biofuel archives contains more than 30,000 messages >over the last three years, many of them from leaders in the field >worldwide, who are or have been list members here. It's an >independent archives, not Yahoo's, provided and maintained by list >member Martin Klingensmith, with powerful, fast and efficient >searching, and no ads. > >Biofuel list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Biofuels-biz list archives >http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuels-biz > >Best wishes > >Keith > > > >Thanks, > > >MJ I am talking about WVO from restaurants, not potential oil from other sourses. I know there are a
Re: [biofuel] "Smog Fighters Out Of Weapons"? SoCal Smoggiest Summer in 7 years?
>From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] "Smog Fighters Out Of Weapons"? SoCal Smoggiest >Summer in 7 years? >Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 01:43:16 -0500 > > > > It has been stated before that America has 3% of the world's >population but > > > produces much more polution percentage wise. I have one solution that >no one > > > would like...raise the price of gas to match what us Canadians pay. >That > > > would cut down the amout of driving done. Our price here in >Saskatchewan > > > today is $3.69/ gallon. I don't drive anywhere I don't need to. Just a > > > comment and a non-solutionlol. > > > Brent > > you wrote: > > Good points, in my view, except you need to clarify Canadian Dollars > > or American. > > > > Your price appears to be in Canadian Dollars (since I found a news > > story mentioning about 75 cents Canadian per Liter which translates to > > about your price Canadian per gallon). This is about $2.66 U.S., > > which some would argue is not quite enough to change our ways, though > > it would open some eyes a bit wider. > > > I believe we're looking at a equal value of $2.22 USD per US gallon. > > It's been discussed that one Canadian gallon is equivalent to > one imperial or UK gallon which equals 4.546 liters. > One US gallon = 3.785 liters. > > 3.69 Canadian Dollars (CAD) equals 2.66 U.S. Dollars (USD) > http://quote.yahoo.com/m5?a=3.69&s=CAD&t=USD&c=0 > > $2.66 USD divided by 4.546 litres times 3.785 litres a US gallon equals > $2.22 USD per US gallon. This was the price some US gasoline stations >were > charging on 911 (9/11/01). It didn't slow many folks from filling their > vehicle and several empty fuel tanks while others lined up to do the >same. > > In na emergancy like 9/11 you could charge $10/gallon and people would stock up. 5 years ago gas was .45/litre, now it is .82/litre and my wages didn't double to keep up with it. Double the price of gas and people will drive less. Brent _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Disappearing Pacific Islands and Suing the United States over Global Warming
I think there needs to be some clarification about some things by someone. I hear so much conflicting news. Today a story stated that the kyoto accord is usless when the biggest polluters like Assia, India, and Russia, and even Brazil don't participate in the accord. These are countries with very few regulations and very little desire to change. Brent >From: murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [biofuel] Disappearing Pacific Islands and Suing the United States >over Global Warming >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 17:21:32 -0700 > >http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/28/ma_444_01.html > >This online edition does not have the full text. An excerpt from the >print edition: > >"... Currently, the government is seeking parnters among other island >nations for a lawsuit against the United States and Australia to be >brought before the International Court of Justice in The Hague, suing >for damages from global warming. The reparations from such >"ecological debt" could be huge, including the potential to cancel the >monies owed on developmental loans to the big polluters >"... >"Along with Tuvalu, many other island and coastal cultures have just >grievances. Kiribati, Tuvalue's neighbor, has already lost two >islands to the rising wters. The seas around the Carteret atolls off >Papua New Guinea have cut one island in half and left 1,500 people >dependent on food aid. In the Marshall Islands, World War II >gravesites are washing away. Trinidad reports losing land at the rate >of two to four yards per year. In the Indian Ocean, a third of the >Maldvies' 200 inhabited atolls are disappearing. And in Alaska, some >Eskimo are being forced to move, as the tundra melts and their >villages slip into the sea..." > > > > > > _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Question
There isn't enough WVO to address the vehicle diesel replacement, but it is a good idea to use it where you can. People look at me funny when I say to try bio diesel, and I don't have a diesel myself yet. If I wanted to run a oil furnace and a diesel vehicle, I would have a hard time to get enough WVO from the city where I live near. Brent >From: "Mike Johnston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuels-biz] Question >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 02:35:39 -0400 > >Hi, >I mostly see Biodiesel being discussed as an automotive fuel. couldn't >it just as easily be used as #2 heating oil or even kerosene? That opens up >a whole new market as many people still have oil heat in their homes and >more use kerosene heaters. >Or how about mixing in extra ethanol after the Biodiesel is made and >using it like gasoline? Has anyone ever done this stuff? where can I see >info? >Thanks, >MJ > > _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] "Smog Fighters Out Of Weapons"? SoCal Smoggiest Summer in 7 years?
It has been stated before that America has 3% of the world's population but produces much more polution percentage wise. I have one solution that no one would like...raise the price of gas to match what us Canadians pay. That would cut down the amout of driving done. Our price here in Saskatchewan today is $3.69/ gallon. I don't drive anywhere I don't need to. Just a comment and a non-solutionlol. Brent >From: murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], >biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED], ev@listproc.sjsu.edu, >"Bill Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [biofuel] "Smog Fighters Out Of Weapons"? SoCal Smoggiest Summer >in 7 years? >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:15:15 -0700 > >http://www.calsmallbusinessalliance.org/NEWS/weapons.html > >Tailpipes of vehicles are about 75% of the problem it says, but no >mention of EVs and their lack of tailpipes. > >http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories2003/local/20030801012806.shtml > >I wonder if EVs could have helped solve this problem? Biodiesel? > >It has gotten to the point where, so far as any public official or >regulator is concerned, EVs might as well never have existed. They're >simply not mentioned anywhere, even when officials become ardent in >their search for better CAFE laws and air quality measures. > >Neither EVs nor biofuels are mentioned directly by the folks in this >article who are looking for solutions. Interestingly, the pollution of >trains and trucks is discussed. I wonder how difficult it would be to >apply biodiesel now, as a ready-for-use solution that would help a >bit. > _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: biodiesel layers
Would that be from too much lie? I am using 4.5g/litre. Brent >From: "Matt Pozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] Re: biodiesel layers >Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 10:28:08 - > >Brent most likely soaps, hope that helps. Answered since no one else >has yet. > >Matt >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Brent" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Did another batch and got that thin layer between the glycerine and > > the diesel. Remind me again what it is. Thanx > > Brent > _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Alaska is melting
I have heard about the polar shift, but have no real data from prehistory to go by, only speculation. I have heard a report that stated that the magnetic pole is moving towards Russia, which would put Canada into a warmer climate. One question, is Russia experiencing a cooling off and freezing of the polar region to coincide with this shift? If the polar regoin in Russia is melting as well, then the polar shift theory falls apart. I have also heard a report saying that the sun is on a cycle of increased activity which is sending more heat our way. This cycle is going to peak in about 40 years, then start cooling again. Brent >From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alaska is melting >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 19:22:10 -0500 > >Your premise is based upon no net polar shifts throughout history. It >starts >to fall apart in the face of them. > >Todd Swearingen > >- Original Message - >From: "Brent S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 11:28 AM >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alaska is melting > > > > > > > > > > > "Sea level is the highest it's ever been and climate is about as warm >as > > >it's ever been," > > > Bindschadler said. "We're really moving into uncharted territory." > > > > Warmest the planet has been? I live where an ocean used to be and near >huge > > deposits of dinosaur fossils. It was alot warmer at one time to support >the > > type of life that once excisted here. The oceans are less salty than >they > > used to be too, to indicate more water now. There is alot of conflicting > > evidence out there. How can there be more heat and less water then and >more > > water and less heat now? The ice caps may be melting, but we still get a >few > > weeks of -40 deg every winter. > > > > Brent > > > > _ > > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Alaska is melting
> ãSea level is the highest itâs ever been and climate is about as warm as >itâs ever been,ä > Bindschadler said. ãWeâre really moving into uncharted territory.ä Warmest the planet has been? I live where an ocean used to be and near huge deposits of dinosaur fossils. It was alot warmer at one time to support the type of life that once excisted here. The oceans are less salty than they used to be too, to indicate more water now. There is alot of conflicting evidence out there. How can there be more heat and less water then and more water and less heat now? The ice caps may be melting, but we still get a few weeks of -40 deg every winter. Brent _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Alaska is melting
What would primative man thought when glacial ice started to receed from the northern states? If they would have had the intelegence to comprehend what was happening, they would have said that the planet was warming up. The planet has been warming for a long time. We only have seen the warming over the last 100 years. The planet will continue to warm as it had been in the past. Volcanos and forest fires put alot of carbon and chemicals into the atmosphere too. There is only so much we can do to stop the human factor, and we can't stop natural events. Brent >From: murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alaska is melting >Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 12:09:55 -0700 > >This seemed pretty compelling. > >On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 13:44:47 -0500, you wrote: > > >"Melting is causing whole chunks of the Alaska Highway to come apart" > >"Melting permafrost also means trouble for the oil industry." > > > > > > Published on Thursday, > > July 31, 2003 by the Knight Ridder Newspapers > > > > Alaskan Warming is Disturbing Preview of What's to Come, Scientists Say > > by Seth Borenstein > > http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0731-04.htm > _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited
Just a thought with no real facts to back it up. The planet has been warming up since the ice age. There used to be trees in the north west territories and tropical plants in Canada. Maybe this global warming is just a matter of the planet returning to normal? Let's get rid of the polution for our own health, but will the planet cool after that? Brent >From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 23:33:52 -0500 > >I wonder how many thousands of square miles have to calve off the polar ice >shelves before anyone cares to make the connection with global warming. > >After all... connect the dots seems to be the predominant child's game >inside "the beltway" these past few weeks. > >Or is physics also being rewritten as much as history and somehow ice melts >at lower temperatures these days than it did in years past? > >Todd Swearingen > >- Original Message - >From: "murdoch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:29 PM >Subject: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited > > > > http://www.enn.com/news/2003-08-01/s_6964.asp > > > > I once read somewhere that some models which predicted global warming > > also predicted a localized temporary cooling, including in North > > America, before things really got going, and that this would mean that > > some of the areas most responsible for contributing global warming > > gasses would have the opportunity to remain under the illusion that > > global warming wasn't occurring, for a precious brief time longer. > > > > In reading this article, that old bit came back to me, as it often > > does. > > > > While I try, as I think many of us do, to avoid buying into any > > tendency to allow any one weather phenomenon to affect our thinking, > > this year's data does seem to be moving slightly toward the global > > warming models we've been told about. > > > > I wish the government of my country were taking better heed. > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited
Ok, another thought to add to my last post. If this planet was alot warmer than it is now, then maybe eliminating polution will help heal the ozone layer, but may not stop the warming? Too bad we don't have ozone data from the pre industrialized era. Brent >From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 23:33:52 -0500 > >I wonder how many thousands of square miles have to calve off the polar ice >shelves before anyone cares to make the connection with global warming. > >After all... connect the dots seems to be the predominant child's game >inside "the beltway" these past few weeks. > >Or is physics also being rewritten as much as history and somehow ice melts >at lower temperatures these days than it did in years past? > >Todd Swearingen > >- Original Message - >From: "murdoch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:29 PM >Subject: [biofuel] global warming issues revisited > > > > http://www.enn.com/news/2003-08-01/s_6964.asp > > > > I once read somewhere that some models which predicted global warming > > also predicted a localized temporary cooling, including in North > > America, before things really got going, and that this would mean that > > some of the areas most responsible for contributing global warming > > gasses would have the opportunity to remain under the illusion that > > global warming wasn't occurring, for a precious brief time longer. > > > > In reading this article, that old bit came back to me, as it often > > does. > > > > While I try, as I think many of us do, to avoid buying into any > > tendency to allow any one weather phenomenon to affect our thinking, > > this year's data does seem to be moving slightly toward the global > > warming models we've been told about. > > > > I wish the government of my country were taking better heed. > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Freedom of Expression and Trade, as pertains to nutrition and agriculture
Monsanto does little more than make money at the expense of everyone. The create crops that require the use of more and more chemicals inspite of the marketplace not wanting these crops. Monsanto and governments will force countries that ban GMOs to buy them to justify there efforts to grow them here. More organic means less monsanto, and less brainwashing. Thanks for letting me vent...lol. Brent >From: murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Freedom of Expression and Trade, as pertains to >nutrition and agriculture >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:30:50 -0700 > >I know that most or all won't read this thread, but I forgot >something, in case anyone still is. > >The Monstantos of this world (but particularly Monsanto) are supported >in part by the intellectual ammunition efforts of >philosophic-religious-political enterprises, such as those that >support free enterprise, individual liberties, freedom of speech, etc. > >If we can manage to get them to see, better, that Monsanto is using >them merely as a matter of temporary expediency, and that support of >Monsanto cannot be done so wildly, they might rethink their ideas, >slightly. We have their previous wild-eyed support of Enron et. al., >during the debates as to the California power crisis, and then they >learned that not every breath Enron employees took was in the service >of free enterprise and liberty. > >Likewise, we have this nasty little attempt to curb free speech, by >Monsanto, and I wonder if we can't point it out as an inconsistency >that could be a hint of a problem, with this policy of unthinking >support for Monsanto, et. al. > >The Libertarians, Randians, Conservatives, whatevers, may think they >are supporting property rights and things they regard as good, much of >the time, but at some point if they find they are not sufficiently >following their own ideas, they might be persuaded to change some of >their efforts. They fell somewhat silent as to Enron, or changed >their tune a little, and perhaps this could happen with Monsanto, ADM, >etc., when they better realize with whom they have engaged. > >MM > >On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:48:26 -0700, you wrote: > > >>>might be interesting if the Kosher angle is brought into this. I.e.: > >>>do folks have the right to communicate with the preparers and growers > >>>of their food to verify that it's been prepared and grown in a manner > >>>that is mutually-agreed-to. > _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sOykFB/k9VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: bio diesel conditioner
My BD reads 7-7.5, if they are saying that they have a canola based product, then they must be adding something like methanol to get that high of a reading. I don't understand your comment. Brent >From: "girl_mark_fire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] Re: bio diesel conditioner >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:33:49 - > >you may also be getting an 'off the scale' reading if it's an oil >that you're trying to find a pH for. >mark > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, mark schofield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > Dear Brent > > > > If the pH is above 12 and regular diesel is > > around 7.5 to 8.5 say then I'd not touch it with > > a dirty stick ! > > > > Regards > > > > Mark > > > > >__ >__ > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE >Yahoo! > > Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ > _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705&lp=home/epson.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel conditioner
Yes it is the product from Saskatchewan. Brent >From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel conditioner >Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:34:14 -0700 > >Is this the product from Saskatchewan? > > > > >On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 07:12 AM, Brent wrote: > > > I just got a look at what a local company is making and marketing as a > > canola based biodiesel feul conditioning product. They sell 1 litre > > for $15 and it is to be added to 1000 litres of diesel. I did some > > preliminary tests on it and found that the ph is off the scale, beyond > > 12. The guy usig it said it does make a difference in his truck. Any > > thoughts on this would be appreciated. > > Brent > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > -~--> > > Buy Breakthrough Natural Health Specialties at VitaminBoost.com $20 to > > $40 > > Oral Sprays for Fast Results and Greater Absorption. > > http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2880 > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/3oMABA/muYGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM > > - > > ~-> > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sOykFB/k9VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel conditioner
They do reccomend using it at a .01% level. I can't see it doing any harm at that low of a level. I also don't see much of a benafit either. But seems people will buy it at $15/l rather than buy BD from me...go figure. Here is the url http://www.milliganbiotech.com/index.html Brent >From: mark schofield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel conditioner >Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:56:48 +0100 (BST) > >Dear Brent > >If the pH is above 12 and regular diesel is >around 7.5 to 8.5 say then I'd not touch it with >a dirty stick ! > >Regards > >Mark > > >Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! >Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ > _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sOykFB/k9VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: dewatering WVO
I would be interested in the picture. I also am trying a similar process,
but using silica acrylate.
Brent
>From: "lohnestd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [biofuel] Re: dewatering WVO
>Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 18:54:32 -
>
>Hello all,
>This problem is something I noticed right away when I started
>reading into how biodiesel is made, and the pitfalls associated with
>the process (i.e making soap instead of fuel.) As a chemical
>engineer, I figured there had to be a way to separate the emulsified
>oil chemically. Right now, I'm experimenting with separation of 80%
>soybean oil, 20% water (emulsified in a blender) using a CaCl salt
>solution at varying concentrations and temperatures. CaCl, better
>known as driveway ice melting salt, is cheap and easy to come by
>even in Washington State where we don't get much ice. I've already
>done some preliminary separations in jars, and it's AMAZING how fast
>you get separation. CaCl is very low on the toxicity scale, and I'm
>hoping the minimum concentration and temperature will be low, saving
>both energy and time. I would appreciate any feedback; I have a
>picture of the apparatus I'm using in case anyone is interested.
>
>Terry Lohnes
>
>--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Neoteric Biofuels Inc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
> > Or into the drains and landfillsin a big way!!
> >
> > Edward Beggs
> > http://www.biofuels.ca
> >
> >
> > On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 09:55 PM, Appal Energy wrote:
> >
> > > In the United States WVO primarily goes towards animal feed as
>an
> > > energy
> > > quotient, the cosmetics industry, the oleo-chemicals industry
>in
> > > general and
> > > to third world countries as refined yellow grease for edible
>purposes.
> > >
> > > Todd Swearingen
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Christopher Tan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 8:28 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [biofuel] dewatering WVO
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hi Keith:
> > >>
> > >> Any idea what the recyclers do with WVO? I talked to a couple of
> > > restaurants
> > >> and found out that there are people who buy their WVO. The
> > >> restaurants
> > >> don't have a clue what is done with the WVO.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Chris
> > >>
> > >> =>-Original Message-
> > >> =>From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> =>Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 9:56 PM
> > >> =>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > >> =>Subject: Re: [biofuel] dewatering WVO
> > >> =>
> > >> =>
> > >> =>>Hey Kieth-
> > >> =>>
> > >> =>>Which restaurants did you learn not to eat at, and why?
> > >> =>>
> > >> =>>Best Regards,
> > >> =>>
> > >> =>>John D, in Ohio
> > >> =>
> > >> =>
> > >> =>Hello John
> > >> =>
> > >> =>As a general rule we've found the cheaper the restaurant the
>worse
> > >> =>the WVO - more abused, cooked longer and probably hotter
>before
> > >> being
> > >> =>renewed, higher FFA levels. Others say the same in other
>countries.
> > >> =>I'm sure there are exceptions but I've yet to find one. One
>real
> > >> =>cheap eatery in Chiba used quite a lot of oil but didn't have
>any
> > >> WVO
> > >> =>for us - they used it all up! Ulp... I definitely wouldn't eat
> > >> =>anything that'd been cooked in some of the WVO we've had,
>lethal I
> > >> =>reckon. As the prices rise so does the WVO quality. The very
>good
> > >> =>stuff that's hardly been used at all comes from the classy
>joints,
> > >> =>but it can be hard to get hold of - the waste recyclers seem
>to like
> > >> =>it for the same reasons we do.
> > >> =>
> > >> =>We don't do restaurants now, one step back in the chain,
>much
> > >> better.
> > >> =>Also one step forward: quite a lot of the organic farmers
>here are
> > >> =>using our biodiesel in their tractors. Most of them sell most
>of
> > >> =>their produce direct to consumers via "teikeis" ("face-to-
>face"),
> > >> the
> > >> =>Japanese version of CSAs (Community Supported Agriculture),
>and
> > >> =>apparently the original inspiration for CSAs. Midori, my
>partner at
> > >> =>Journey to Forever, made flyers for them to put in the
>delivery
> > >> boxes
> > >> =>with all the veggies, with a photo of the happy organic farmer
> > >> =>driving his biod-fuelled tractor and explaining a bit about
>it. And,
> > >> =>as hoped, the consumers are now starting to send the WVO from
>their
> > >> =>home kitchens back to the farmers in the empty boxes. So the
>farmers
> > >> =>are now moving towards making their own fuel from their
>customers'
> > >> =>used cooking oil, quite nice. The oil itself is as good as
>the best
> > >> =>stuff we get, hardly used at all, not overheated, very low
> > >> titration,
> > >> =>no water content. Maybe that's because these are organic
>produce
> > >> =>consumers and perhaps more aware of food and health issues,
>but
> > >> maybe
> > >> =>not. We've also been offered oil by a women's group that's
>into
> > >> waste
> > >> =>recycling and
Re: [biofuel]was: dewatering WVO now regional WVO processing facility
Great idea, but it would only work where there are enough people making diesel to justify the cost and time. These people would also not want to dewater and filter their own oil. Where I live, I am the only one I know that has even attempted to make diesel. In a metro area there might be more of a demand for such a service. Brent >From: Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel]was: dewatering WVO now regional WVO processing >facility >Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:03:57 -0700 (PDT) > >Hello all, >The problems associated with small scale use of WVO and it's >inconsistant quality may be mitigated by a model I have been >considering. >I work for a Natural Foods company that handles a good deal of vegie >oils. I have all the equipment necessesary to filter and de-water WVO. > >Our equipment utilization is on the order of 20%. We have some fairly >sophisticated equipment used in falvoring various oils with organic >herbs and spices. Lots of water, lots of solids. > >Is there any demand for a regional, most likely co-op, WVO processing >facility? Assume we run at cost plus 10-15%, and could process >1500-2000 US gal per 8 hr shift. Is there sufiicent demand to run 1-2 >days a week? >Is the "community" developed enough to deliver to the plant and >exchange WVO for filtered, water free WVO? > >Assume a major metro area, such as the San Francisco Bay Area. Is ther >the demand? Or, is the use of WVO by individuals, by it's very nature, >opposed to or unable to support this type of collection/distribution >system? > >I would assume it would be an oil in/oil out less production loss type >of deal. I have drums, carboys, totes, pails etc. that could be used on >a deposit basis. > >Just testing the "ahem" waters here. > >Thoughts? > > >Mark > > > > >--- Neoteric Biofuels Inc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yes, and then run it through a water separator filter or two on its > > way > > to the engine, if you want to do a more thorough job. Our G3 SVO Max > > kit uses this approach > > > > ...gravity settle only, followed by a trip through a heated filter > > with > > two stage filtration and water separation. > > > > Edward Beggs > > Neoteric Biofuels Inc. > > http://www.biofuels.ca > > > > > > > > On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 08:45 PM, Appal Energy wrote: > > > > > Brent, > > > > > > 100*C is the boiling point for water. To get rid of water by the > > > boiling > > > method not only do you have to expend massive amounts of energy, > > but > > > the > > > water wil inevitably atomize and stay mixed with oil to some > > degree, > > > even if > > > you boil the beejeebers out of it. > > > > > > Your best bet is to heat the oil to ~130*F (55*C) and let the water > > > > > settle > > > out. > > > > > > No point in wasting time, energy or creating problems. Just be sure > > the > > > settling period is sufficient. The deeper the oil resevoir the > > longer > > > the > > > settling time. (55 gallon drum, maybe 24-36 hours. 1,000 gallon > > tank, > > > maybe > > > 48-72 hours.) > > > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Brent" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 9:52 AM > > > Subject: [biofuel] dewatering WVO > > > > > > > > >> I read the information on dewatering the WVO, but when I was > > heating > > >> the oil I noticed that when it was taken off the heat and poured > > off, > > >> that there was water settled on the bottom. Can this be a way to > > >> dewater more quickly? Just heat the oil to 100 deg. C and then > > pour > > >> the oil off the top? Will water remain suspended in the oil? > > >> > > >> Brent > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > >> > > >> Biofuels list archives: > > >> http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > >> > > >> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > >> To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >http://sbc.yahoo.com > _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Natural Vitamins for Good Prostate & Male Health. $28.97 http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2865&lp=prosta2.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/qJIe0D/89VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messa
Re: [biofuel] how much do you know
The engine wasn't working very hard at that speed. I suspect it had 2.73 or 2.41 gears concidering it was a big block. With 4.11 gears it would be difficult to drive on the highway at all. I had a truck with 4.10 gears and could start out in third gear on a three speed, and it was screaming at 50mph, so I put 33X12.5 tires on the back and could then drive it normally. I had a 71 chevelle with a 350, headers, 194 heads, mild cam, and street aluminum intake. It got the best mileage between 50 and 60. A small block will work harder in a heavy car than a big block. Yes physics applies, but they apply on paper, and the results will vary according to weather conditions, fuel used, road conditions and altitude. >From: robert luis rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] how much do you know >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:20:19 -0700 > > > >Brent S wrote: > > > I had a 1975 monte carlo with an LS6 454 engine. By using it's vacuum >guage, > > it got the lowest vacuum at 65 mph. Run bellow that speed and you could >see > > the gast guage move. > > Brent > > > > I had a 73 Chevelle with a 350, Doug Thorley headers and an >aftermarket cam. >The BEST fuel economy in that machine was at about 40 miles per hour. I >find >your observations hard to believe. Either your vacuum gauge wasn't working >properly (was it hooked up to manifold vacuum, or carburetor vacuum?), you >had >very low gearing in that car (like 4.11s or worse!), or your memory is not >functioning at its peak. > > I don't intend to insult you. The fuel economy issue can be addressed >with >mathematical formulas relating to mass, coefficient of drag and velocity. >I have >never witnessed an automobile that did not rigorously conform to the >principles >of physics. > > >robert luis rabello >"The Edge of Justice" >Adventure for Your Mind >http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 > > _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Wireless Video Surveillance http://us.click.yahoo.com/jWIEhC/90OGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: how much do you know
>From: "Forbes Bagatelle-Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] Re: how much do you know >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:45:19 - > >Air resistance goes up dramatically as a function of speed, per the >following equation: > >Power = 0.5*Cd*FA*V^3 > >where >Power is the power consumed by the vehicle >Cd is the drag coefficient of the vehicle >FA is the frontal area of the vehicle >V is the speed of the vehicle > >Using this equation, you can see that it takes more than twice as much >power for the same vehicle to go 70mph as it does to go 55mph (2.06 >times as much power). Energy is power * time, so differences in >energy usage will not be quite as dramatic as differences in >instantaneous power usage, but they will not be very far off. I don't know anything about formulas. All I know is what I have done. I drove a 1989 mustang with a 302. I got 31mpg at 65mph. I drove it at 110mph and got 27mpg. Thats only a 10% loss in milage. > >Of course efficiency plays a major role in the equation also. >Engineers can design a drivetrain to be most efficient at whatever >speed they choose, but most of the time that V^3 term overwhelms any >efficiency differences. > >Respectfully > >-Forbes Bagatelle-Black > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Castleman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > how much do you know that reducing the speed limit again would >help? > > > > Personally, I can only offer that it is simple physics. It takes >energy to move mass, and more energy to move mass faster. Certainly >technology has improved the efficiency of vehicles, but technology has >yet to circumvent the laws of physics. > > A simple test one can very effectively do would require a bicycle. >Peddle hard and get it going as fast as you can, then try to maintain >that speed. It should not take long to notice a significant loss of >speed without a great investment of more and more energy. > > > > We can also look at some of the work done in 1995, which is >admittedly a bit old, but helpful. > > http://www.epa.gov/otaq/reports/env-spds.htm > > >http://www.trucktires.com/library/technical/bftechnical/fuel_economy_b >.htm > > > > Of course I could be wrong about the actual percentages, there are >certainly a great many variables to consider, but I am not wrong that >it requires more energy to move mass faster. Slowing down will save >energy. Finding a compromise between standing still and movement is >the real issue. This is why safety, pollution, cost, and time all >enter the equation. > > > > I would certainly welcome any contribution to help clarify and >substantiate or disprove the starting points of 20% to 50% reductions >that I have derived from historical documentation I found so far. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Wireless Video Surveillance http://us.click.yahoo.com/jWIEhC/90OGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] how much do you know
There are more variables than the formula can account for. Tire size and gearing can make a difference on efficiency. Also type of fuel used can affect milage, along with aftermarket additives. My 1984 toyota van was getting very poor milage for a 4 cyl mini van. I reduced my rear tire size to bring up my rpms and increased milage over 20%. I then added a fuel additive and increased another 10%. The engine must run at it's peak to get peak milage, regardless of speed, run too slow and it lugs and over fuels, run too fast and you burn too much gas versus resistance on the vehicle. The truck I have now already runs at 2200 rpm at over 60 mph. To increase the milage I would need to put smaller tires on the back to get the rpms back up to 2500-2750, which is the sweet spot for a chev 350 in a 3500 to 4000 pound vehicle. Most trucks in those years would run 3000 rpm at the same speed. In that case I would increase tire size and put in a lock-up or overdrive transmission. Every vehicle can be tweeked to be more eficient, but every vehicle is an individual case. I have had them all, small vehicles with big engines and stock ones and everything in between. I have my own formula. Wieght determines gearing and powertrain mods. Power makes milage!!! I took a 1975 chev 3/4 ton truck with a 4V 350 that was getting 15mpg, which is normal for that type of truck, and increased the milage to 21 mpg at 60-65mph. I then put in a 262 V8 from a monza and got 10mpg at the same spead. I also test drove a ford festiva when they first came out. Against the wind it wouldn't do 60mph, and I imagine the milage would be poor too. It was too underpowered for anything more than a grocery getter in town. Brent >From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] how much do you know >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:36:46 -0500 > > > Brent S wrote: > > Too bad this formula doesn't work on cars in the real world. > > Could you clarify without being so vague ?? > Perhaps you could provide a example, please. _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Wireless Video Surveillance http://us.click.yahoo.com/jWIEhC/90OGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] how much do you know
totally inaccurate. Go 40, take not of milage, go 50, take note again, go 60 take note again. That would be accurate. Brent >From: "John Mullan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [biofuel] how much do you know >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:13:27 -0400 > >A simple test would be to go down the highway at 40mph and take note of >accelerator position. Now go 60mph. Not the accelerator position. Hmmm. >Faster = More Gas. More Gas = More Enery. > >Simple test, yes? > >- Original Message - >From: "Tim Castleman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 1:28 PM >Subject: [biofuel] how much do you know > > > > > how much do you know that reducing the speed limit again would help? > > > > Personally, I can only offer that it is simple physics. It takes energy >to >move mass, and more energy to move mass faster. Certainly technology has >improved the efficiency of vehicles, but technology has yet to circumvent >the laws of physics. > > A simple test one can very effectively do would require a bicycle. >Peddle >hard and get it going as fast as you can, then try to maintain that speed. >It should not take long to notice a significant loss of speed without a >great investment of more and more energy. > > > > We can also look at some of the work done in 1995, which is admittedly a >bit old, but helpful. > > http://www.epa.gov/otaq/reports/env-spds.htm > > >http://www.trucktires.com/library/technical/bftechnical/fuel_economy_b.htm > > > > Of course I could be wrong about the actual percentages, there are >certainly a great many variables to consider, but I am not wrong that it >requires more energy to move mass faster. Slowing down will save energy. >Finding a compromise between standing still and movement is the real issue. >This is why safety, pollution, cost, and time all enter the equation. > > > > I would certainly welcome any contribution to help clarify and >substantiate or disprove the starting points of 20% to 50% reductions that >I >have derived from historical documentation I found so far. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] how much do you know
Too bad this formula doesn't work on cars in the real world. Brent >From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] how much do you know >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:48:24 -0500 > > > The question is: How much you would benefit? > > A example below -- > > Bicycle Power Calculator > http://www.me.psu.edu/lamancusa/ProdDiss/Bicycle/bikecalc.htm > > 200 = Rider's Weight (lbs) > 0% Grade > > Desired CaloriesApproximateEnergy > Constantburned miles per increase > Speedper mile US gallon from 15 mph > (mph)(kcals)(mpg) (percent) > 15 9.08 3192 0% > 2515.26 1899 68% > 3524.55 1134170% > 4536.94785307% > 5552.42553477% > 6571.00408682% > > Theirs a 35% energy increase from 55 to 65 mph above. > but with a 4 wheel auto or truck the CdA, increased mass > and rolling resistance would propably increase energy > percentage further I'd think. > > Formula used to determine (mpg) 115000/(kcals*3.96832) > > 115,000 Btu/US gallon of gasoline at Lower Heating Value (LHV) > > One kilocalorie [kcal] = 3.96832 Btu _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] how much do you know
I had a 1975 monte carlo with an LS6 454 engine. By using it's vacuum guage, it got the lowest vacuum at 65 mph. Run bellow that speed and you could see the gast guage move. Brent >From: robert luis rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] how much do you know >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:57:15 -0700 > > > >John Mullan wrote: > > > A simple test would be to go down the highway at 40mph and take note of > > accelerator position. Now go 60mph. Not the accelerator position. >Hmmm. > > Faster = More Gas. More Gas = More Enery. > > > > Simple test, yes? > > > > A vacuum gauge can give you this information as well. I've learned >that the >best fuel economy in my 2.3 liter Ranger occurs at 60 - 65 km / hr in >fourth >gear. The engine pulls nearly 20 inches of vacuum at this speed. >Increasing >speed beyond 70 km / hr decreases vacuum substantially. > > I've improved my fuel economy by watching this gauge and keeping the >truck in >fourth gear when engine speed remains below 2 200 rpm. The difference has >actually lessened the cost of driving back and forth from work. If I drive >100 >km / hr the fuel economy falls off pretty quickly, and gets MUCH worse the >faster >I go. > > >robert luis rabello >"The Edge of Justice" >Adventure for Your Mind >http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 > > _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fuel efficiency vs Speed Was: PATRIOTS ENERGY PLEDGE?
It all depends on the vehicle. Some will get the best milage at 40 mph and some at 70 mph. If a car is run bellow it's optimum RPM range, it won't be getting it's best milage. This is my own personal experience driving over 200 vehicles since I was 16. With a price of gas now at .70/litre ($2.80/US gallon), getting the best mpg on any vehicle is top priority. Every vehicle is different, why not a 40mph limit, or 50mph? The 55mph limit has more to do with sticking a balance between economy and keeping cars moving on the highways. Brent >From: "csakima" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: [biofuel] Fuel efficiency vs Speed Was: PATRIOTS ENERGY PLEDGE? >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:29:39 -0500 > >As I understand, the 55 MPH limit came because as speed goes up MPG >goes down ... exponentially. The curve goes down at a slow rate then >starts nosediving "right" around 55 MPH. Something like that. Saw it in >some fuel-efficiency/automotive technical book I have in my dusty >collection. > >Curtis > >Get your free newsletter at >http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL > > >- Original Message - >From: Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >With newer and generally more efficient vehicles, how much do you know that >reducing the speed limit again would help? I did a little test myself over >the past few weeks. > >--message truncated-- > > _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Sparkling bio-diesel
Congrats, what kind of license do you need to use biodiesel? Brent >From: mark schofield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] Sparkling bio-diesel >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:00:50 +0100 (BST) > >Dear Todd > >At last, I have the final finished product to a >T. Its clear and stays that way. I am now >applying for a license to use it then I'll >perform road trials. > >Regards > >Mark > > >Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! >Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ > _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: The Cult of High Mileage (was RE: [biofuel] Funding Petroleum Warlords)
>From: "csakima" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: The Cult of High Mileage (was RE: [biofuel] Funding Petroleum >Warlords) >Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:18:05 -0500 > >"Why can I make a small truck get high 20s mpg when a new V8 dodge dakota >with all it's technology only gets 25mpg?" > >The answer is very simple COST. > >If the automakers did everything "you" did to improve mileage . and >then >ADD the markups, profit margin, corporate taxes (etc, etc, etc) the >final cost to the consumer would be outrageous. Then of course, nobody >would buy it. So why build it?? > >Ask anyone in manufacturing. Have you ever seen the RATIO of "the simple >cost of all the parts put together" ... compared to "the final cost the >customer pays"???At a place I use to work at, the radio receiver we >manufactured costed the customer about 50 bucks ... yet I looked up the >cost > only 7. > >Curtis Curtis, I agree with you 100% about the cost factor, but, the auto companies already have the right combination, 318 V8 in a dakota. It would be a matter of a computer chip change to boost milage. I had a 1989 mustang which got 31 mpg with the V8. The car was relatively cheap and had a roller cam and headers from the factory, which are very expensive items compared to hydraulic cam and cast manifolds. A couple years later the mustangs were getting 25. Just a chip change. Just my observations. Brent >Get your free newsletter at >http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL > > >- Original Message - >From: "Brent S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Old car doesn't mean gas guzzler. > >What we don't want is a situation where driving a gas guzzler becomes a >status symbol. We don't want people bragging that their vehicles get 10mpg >as a way to show how they can afford to waste "expensive" gasoline. > >I had a 1975 monte carlo that wieghed 4400 pounds. This would be one of >those gas guzzlers everyone wants to get off the road. A back yard mechanic >that rebuilt the car took it from a 15-20 mpg 120 mph top speed car to a >26-28 mpg 150 mph+. I also had a ford ranger 1/4 ton truck with a v6 >(20mpg). Took out that lame duck engine and put a 350 hp v8 in it and got >25-28 mpg, and with a little more modification could get over 30-35 mpg. So >I laugh at the auto makers and their reteric about fue milage on the new >vehicles. Why can I make a small truck get high 20s mpg when a new V8 dodge >dakota with all it's technology only gets 25mpg? > >Brent > > > _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: The Cult of High Mileage (was RE: [biofuel] Funding Petroleum Warlords)
Well, you have hit my hot buttons on this one. Let's not forget who is at the centre of this debate, the oil industry and the auto makers. If the the will was there from the oil companies and the auto makers, we could have the best of all worlds. Too many jobs are at stake in these two industries to risk the results of a "let's use less" lifestyle. >Telling Americans that they should take their cars to the salvage yard >is tantamount to telling them to give their children up for adoption. Old car doesn't mean gas guzzler. >What we don't want is a >situation where driving a gas guzzler becomes a status symbol. We don't >want people bragging that their vehicles get 10mpg as a way to show how >they can afford to waste "expensive" gasoline. I had a 1975 monte carlo that wieghed 4400 pounds. This would be one of those gas guzzlers everyone wants to get off the road. A back yard mechanic that rebuilt the car took it from a 15-20 mpg 120 mph top speed car to a 26-28 mpg 150 mph+. I also had a ford ranger 1/4 ton truck with a v6 (20mpg). Took out that lame duck engine and put a 350 hp v8 in it and got 25-28 mpg, and with a little more modification could get over 30-35 mpg. So I laugh at the auto makers and their reteric about fue milage on the new vehicles. Why can I make a small truck get high 20s mpg when a new V8 dodge dakota with all it's technology only gets 25mpg? Brent _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] mass production of alcohol
At one time I had the plans for a solar still. It was quite easy, and if I could find a way to draw it from memory and get it into a net compatible format, I would send it to you. But solar stills are possible. Brent >From: "curtbigge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] mass production of alcohol >Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 01:12:02 - > >I am just getting started and I would like to make alcohol as a fuel >source. (45 gal per week) I have spent 2 days sorting through 10,000 >postings. And I have been to many great web sites but here are my >questions. 1) why not use solar energy to distill the alcohol. 2) >where is a cheap source of sugar for the process 3) have any of you >actually done this, or is this just a theoretically possible thing >that is it just left up to commercial industry > >Thank you for your time and I do enjoy your site. > > > _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/CNxFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] solar colector ( was Re: price of methanol )
All great ideas. The simple one I made has a manifold at the top and bottom, with only 4 4 foot long abs pipes conecting them. I tested it one day just coverd with plastic and nothing attached. The result I got was encouraging, 70 deg in the bottom and 140 deg out the top. This can very easily be tweeked to get over 150 deg. Brent >From: "girl_mark_fire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] solar colector ( was Re: price of methanol ) >Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 21:13:41 - > >My idea on a solar collector for BD involves running a heat >eschanger. (disclaimer: I've been thinking about this for two >years and haven't built it yet, so it's all in my head and needs to >get taken with a greain of salt) >The reason for the heat exchanger idea is that there are a few >different points in the process which could benefit from heat and >it seems to me that flexibility would be useful in what you can >heat from your solar collector. >(preheating before dewatering, then possibly preheating before >making fuel (if you dewater on a different day) , heating wash >water for less emulsion formation, or heating a wash tank to >break an emulsion if it formed), or... all from one set of collecors. >It of course means either having a heat exhchanger that you >move in and out of a tank (I don' tlike this idea), or it means >having a manifold with valves that can direct the heat eschang >medium to different applications (more expensive parts-wise) >which is what I want to do. > >The simplest system however is something like a batch water >heater- ie a large solar box cooker, with a barrrel of water or a >domestic water heater painted black encased in it. the water >doesn't circulate in the simplest scenario, the whole batch gets >heated all at once and used up all at once . This setup gets >water quite hot, and it should work well for water or for oil. >Do a search on the internet and you should be able to find a few >deigns for this kind of solar batch water heater... >mark > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Brent S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > No pics or drawings of it, and I plan on changing the design a >bit too. And > > haven't figured out if I'll run the oil through it or run a heat >exchanger > > off of it to the oil. Ill post what I can when I get it finished. > > Brent > > Saskatchewan, Canada > > > _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] solar colector ( was Re: price of methanol )
No pics or drawings of it, and I plan on changing the design a bit too. And haven't figured out if I'll run the oil through it or run a heat exchanger off of it to the oil. Ill post what I can when I get it finished. Brent Saskatchewan, Canada >From: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: [biofuel] solar colector ( was Re: price of methanol ) >Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:40:29 -0600 > >Do you have any pics. or drawings of it? > >Greg H. > >- Original Message - >From: "Brent S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 08:54 >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: price of methanol > > > > Wish I had somewhere to take a course. I have always been far ahead of > > everyone in my thinking and as such, end up being laughed at an >ridiculed > > about new things. It also means doing things the hard way most of the >time. > > > > Last year I built a solar colector out of ABS pipe. I have gotten 140 >deg. > > out of it with no trouble and know I can get it a few deg. warmer. I >would > > use that as a preheat, reducing the energy required to take it to the > > boiling point of methanol. You metioned heating both the diesel and > > glycerine. I assume you do this after settling. Do you stir it as well > > during the distilling? > > > > Thanx > > Brent > > > > > > > > _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: price of methanol
Wish I had somewhere to take a course. I have always been far ahead of everyone in my thinking and as such, end up being laughed at an ridiculed about new things. It also means doing things the hard way most of the time. Last year I built a solar colector out of ABS pipe. I have gotten 140 deg. out of it with no trouble and know I can get it a few deg. warmer. I would use that as a preheat, reducing the energy required to take it to the boiling point of methanol. You metioned heating both the diesel and glycerine. I assume you do this after settling. Do you stir it as well during the distilling? Thanx Brent >From: "girl_mark_fire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] Re: price of methanol >Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 05:22:04 - > >Before I give you figures, let's establish for any newbies that you most >certainly need an excess of methanol to make the reaction work well, and >that >methanol skimping produces poor fuel (in terms of poor conversion and >possible problems in washing and in use). So we use more methanol than we >actually 'need' for the reaction. > >our reaction will use up something like 15% by volume (10% molar ratios) >and the excess is split 40/60 % between the biodiesel and the glycerine, >except that I can't remember for sure which directin the split is in- it >might be >60/40 instead. It's considered easier or less energy intensive to just heat >up >glycerine to recover some methanol rather than the entire thing (both BD >and >glycerine), since it's a smaller volume to heat. I personally believe it's >all about >insulation of your processor- that if you can get a gazillion inches of >insulatin >wrapped around the thing, the energy stops being as big of a money issue >and you can heat whatever you want for less energy than we assume. It is, >by >the way, moneywise very cheap to heat oil using even inefficient electric >elements, in the US (don' t know aobut elsewhere). >I just came away from the Iowa State University course on biodiesel >production, really fired up about methanol recovery... >mark > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Brent S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have concidered methanol recovery, but it will be in the future when I >am > > set up better. How much of the methanol will stay in the glycerine? I am > > still trying to source a cheaper supplier for methanol and will keep >going > > till the goverment shuts me down...lol. > > Brent > > > > > > > > >From: "girl_mark_fire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: [biofuel] Re: price of methanol > > >Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 01:55:41 - > > > > > >It certainly makes a difference in your case, because you're not in > > >an area where methanol is available cheaply. Most people in the > > >US, however, can get it for an inconsequential price... you may > > >want to explore methanol recovery > > >mark > > > > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Brent S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >wrote: > > > > It makes a big difference to me. The only major cost to me is > > >methanol. The > > > > first batch I made cost abot .70/litre that's $2.80/U.S. gallon, not > > > > including any costs other than methanol and lye. pump price > > >for diesel is > > > > .72/litre. > > > > > > > > >_ > > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: price of methanol
I have concidered methanol recovery, but it will be in the future when I am set up better. How much of the methanol will stay in the glycerine? I am still trying to source a cheaper supplier for methanol and will keep going till the goverment shuts me down...lol. Brent >From: "girl_mark_fire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] Re: price of methanol >Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 01:55:41 - > >It certainly makes a difference in your case, because you're not in >an area where methanol is available cheaply. Most people in the >US, however, can get it for an inconsequential price... you may >want to explore methanol recovery!!!! >mark > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Brent S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > It makes a big difference to me. The only major cost to me is >methanol. The > > first batch I made cost abot .70/litre that's $2.80/U.S. gallon, not > > including any costs other than methanol and lye. pump price >for diesel is > > .72/litre. > _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: price of methanol
It makes a big difference to me. The only major cost to me is methanol. The first batch I made cost abot .70/litre that's $2.80/U.S. gallon, not including any costs other than methanol and lye. pump price for diesel is .72/litre. Need to get the cost down or no one will care how good bio is. I owned a service sation 25 miles from any city, and people will drive 25 miles if our gas was a tenth of a cent more expensive. So my search for cheaper methanol continues. Brent >From: "girl_mark_fire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] Re: price of methanol >Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 20:48:35 - > >methanol at .82 cents a gallon is cheap, but it really doesn't >make that huge of a difference to a homebrewer. I pay about $2 a >gallon and my fuel costs under 50 cents including all the utility >costs for heating it. There';s not a huge difference between 50 >cents a gallon and 30 cents a gallon for someone concerned >about making fuel for their fuel efficient passenger car. >mark > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > Andy & Lynn write: > > > > > > >So who all wants to go in on a tanker of MeOH? > > > > > > Where are you, and what kind of storage/handling > > facilities do you have? The tanker is going to want to > > empty its entire contents into your storage tank, > > rather than waiting around while you fill drums. > > Methanol in drums is available in most urban areas > > in the US, and it costs more that way to cover > > storage and distribution --do you have a special > > advantage there (like an abandoned gas station :-))? > _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] price of methanol
I would be happy to pay $2/gallon. I pay $29/20litre pail, that works out to $1.50/litre or $6.00/U.S. gallon. Brent >From: "Kim Nguyen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [biofuel] price of methanol >Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:22:12 -0700 > >this brings up a point that others have raised...and that is if the >small bio-diesel producer can somehow form an umbrella co-op type >organization that has greater buying power so that potentially methanol >can be purchased in bulk and distributed at a much lower rate than the >current $2.00/gallon that everyone is paying...while you won't end up >with a final cost of $0.82/gallon, you may be able to pay ~$1.25/gallon >with distribution costs...think about it...call it the independent >bio-diesel producers association and register it as a private non-profit >advocacy group... > >kim > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/16/03 09:22AM >>> >If you buy a tanker load of methanol, you can get it for $.82 a gallon > >Stanley Baer wrote: > > >At the Methanex website they claim the price of methanol is $US 0.82 a > >gallon. Why can't a buy a 50 gal drum of the stuff for less than $115. > > > >stan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- >-- >Martin Klingensmith >http://infoarchive.net/ >http://nnytech.net/ > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] price of methanol
I wish I could get it for $115/50 gallons...lol. Brent >From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] price of methanol >Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:22:09 -0400 > >If you buy a tanker load of methanol, you can get it for $.82 a gallon > >Stanley Baer wrote: > > >At the Methanex website they claim the price of methanol is $US 0.82 a > >gallon. Why can't a buy a 50 gal drum of the stuff for less than $115. > > > >stan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- >-- >Martin Klingensmith >http://infoarchive.net/ >http://nnytech.net/ > > _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Small steps by GM
Nothing new here. Cadalliac had an engine that ran on 4, 6, or 8 cylynders 20 years ago. I looked at a new dodge dakota with a 318 when they first came out. The dakota had a feul rating of 25 mpg. I just laughed and walked away. At that time I had a 1984 ford ranger that I put a 345 hp 350 into that got 28 mpg and if I changed gears and went to an overdrive transmission, would probable get over 30 mpg. The car companies won't let their vehicles get too good of milage and hurt the oil industry. Too many jobs are tied up in oil.There are alot of ways to increase eficiency, but don't look towards the auto industry to do it. Brent >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >CC: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuels-biz] Small steps by GM >Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 02:04:17 +0900 > >General Motors -- last year dubbed "Global Warmer Number One" by >Environmental Defense -- is taking small steps to clean up its >vehicle fleet, not to mention its image. The company has announced >that it will add new gas-saving technology to most of its SUVs and >pickup trucks by 2008, beginning with three SUV models next year. The >"displacement on demand" technology, which can be used with six- or >eight-cylinder engines, automatically turns off some cylinders when >less power is needed, thereby improving fuel economy by about 8 >percent. Enviros are not impressed, arguing that automakers could be >producing SUVs that get 40 miles to the gallon using other existing >technologies. With an eye toward the long range, GM is developing its >Hy-wire car, which runs on hydrogen fuel cells, but that technology >won't hit showrooms for 10 to 20 years. In the meantime, GM last week >shipped three road-ready fuel-cell minivans to Washington, D.C., >where they'll be loaned to members of Congress. > > >http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/20776/story.htm > >GM to add fuel-saving device to SUVs, pickups > >USA: May 13, 2003 > >DETROIT - Amid growing criticism of gas-guzzling sport utility >vehicles, General Motors Corp. (GM.N) said it would add new >fuel-saving technology to most of its SUVs and pickup trucks. > >GM, the world's largest automaker, said that starting next year it >will make its new "displacement on demand" technology standard >equipment on three SUVs powered by V8 engines, boosting their fuel >economy by about 8 percent. > >Displacement on demand, or DOD, automatically shuts off half of a >V8's eight cylinders, temporarily turning it into a more efficient >four-cylinder engine, when the vehicles are cruising at a constant >speed or carrying a light load. > >DOD will be rolled out over several years and be added to most SUVs >and pickup trucks by 2008, as well as to many passenger cars with V6 >engines. > >GM next year will add DOD to V8 engine versions of the Chevrolet >TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy and GMC Envoy XUV sport utility vehicles. That >will raise their fuel efficiency, currently 15 to 20 miles per >gallon, by about 1 or 2 miles per gallon, said GM spokesman Dave >Roman. > >But that will be far below the 40 miles per gallon that some >environmental groups say is possible. > >Detroit automakers came under fire this week in a new advertising >campaign co-sponsored by a Hollywood group led by syndicated >columnist Arianna Huffington and a New York-based environmental group >headed by Robert Kennedy Jr., son of the late Sen. Robert Kennedy. > >The new television and print ads that Detroit could help slash the >U.S. dependence on foreign oil by more than doubling the fuel economy >of cars, trucks and SUVs. But they say automakers refuse to build >vehicles that "take America to work in the morning without sending it >to war in the afternoon." > >GM's Roman said the DOD technology will be added to some mid-size >cars in 2005, and by 2008, it will be fitted on more than 2 million >vehicles on the road. > >The technology, which costs a nominal amount for the automaker to >install, will help GM meet rising fuel economy standards for pickup >trucks, SUVs and vans, Roman said. > >"It's one of many things in our tool box that we're pulling from," he >added. > >REUTERS NEWS SERVICE > > >http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/business/ >105282701889100.xml > >Hy-wire hits the road, aiming at the future > >05/13/03 >DON STEINBERG > >TRENTON, N.J. -- General Motors' Hy-wire -- a car with no engine, >steering wheel or brake pedal -- swerved between orange cones Monday >in a Trenton parking lot. > >Don't think about trying this stunt at home, because you can't -- and >probably won't be able to for 10 or 20 years, if that. > >The Hy-wire is the car of the future, and it runs on the energy of >tomorrow: hydrogen fuel cells, which combine hydrogen and oxygen to >produce electricity. Their only emission is water, which steams >harmlessly out the tailpipe. > >President Bush made hydrogen a surprise star of his January State of
[biofuel] gasoline prices
I usually just lurk and see whats going on, but I think it is time to get on the wagon and start using the knowledge I have gained from all of you and other web sourses to find a small diesel vehicle and make my own bio diesel. The price of gas here in Saskatchewan has hit .93/litre in Regina. Thats $4.19/gallon. For a country with more oil than the middle east, and a country that is an oil exporter, this price gouging really sucks. So, here is my dilema, anyone got a small diesel powered vehicle here is Saskatchewan?...LOL. What are the milage differences, if any, between regular diesel and bio diesel? Brent _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cold weather
Where are you from? I am in Saskatchewan. Brent From: "Shari :)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] cold weather Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:24:40 + i live in canada and with cold weather apporoaching i am worried about being able to run a diesel vehicle. have any of you had experience with this problem??? how cold can you run the vehicle??? any tips on easy winter startup??? or helping the motor from freezing??? thanx _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Huge seabed methane find off Canada's west coast
These discoveries sound nice, but when a few large companies control the resourses and can manipulate energy prices to justify further developement, it just ends up taking money out of everyones pockets. Here in Saskatchewan, as far as I know, we are the only Canadian province that can't set up solar or wind gathering systems and hook up to the grid. So the government sets up a wind farm and allows anyone who wants to use wind energy to pay more on their electric bill for this new "free" energy. Now the natural gas company here is using this expensive "free" energy for their offices. Now I can see our natural gas rates increase because of this. Can we consentrate on biodeisel and other energies to become selfreliant individuals instead of supporting big companies that we have no control over? Brent >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] Huge seabed methane find off Canada's west coast >Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 15:18:20 +0900 > >tvoivozhd commented on the Homestead list recently: > >"About time attention was turned to this energy resource---about four >times that contained in more familiar coal, oil and gas reserves. >Some danger of a blowout if pressure is inadvertently released, and >you wouldn't want to breathe a methane bubble emerging from the ocean >floor any more than you would want to breath methane in a coal mine. > >"But methane hydrate in crystalline form is concentrated, like it >would be if compressed at very high pressure in a pressure-tank. Not >like impractical-to-compress hydrogen which for automotive use must >be generated by an onboard converter from gasoline or other liquid >fuel, or stored in nanotubes or metal hydride, releasing by >application of heat. > >"Releasing pressure on the hydrate causes it to sublime to >methane---which is a lot easier to process and cleaner than coal or >oil. Moreover, gases are a lot easier and cheaper to move long >distances through a pipeline than oil or slurries. Methane hydrate >deposits exist off many continental and island shelves. I have a >vague recollection that a big one lies off the U.S. east coast too." > >So what effect could this have on the famous Hubbert's Peak of fossil >fuel supplies down whose steep slopes we'll allegedly soon be >tobogganing towards the end of CAWKI? Also, how do these apparently >regular accidental discoveries of "new" energy resources reflect on >all the assurances we've had that current knowledge of the extent of >fossil-fuel reserves means that much more than it did in the past >(damn all)? > >Not that Hubbert's Peak makes much sense to me anyway, even without >methane hydrate, since there are immense reserves of coal and >long-established technology for converting it into fuel. Nor does >that make much sense because climate change will inevitably change >the whole ball-game. > >Keith > > >http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/17697/story.htm > >Huge seabed methane find off Canada's west coast > >CANADA: September 10, 2002 > >VICTORIA, British Columbia - A fishing boat's accidental catch has >led to the discovery of a huge potential energy reserve off Canada's >Pacific coast that could meet the country's energy needs for 40 >years, researchers said yesterday. > >A remote controlled submarine discovered "glaciers" of frozen methane >hydrates, which can be used to produce methane gas, on the sea floor >about 130 km (85 miles) west of Vancouver Island, according to >University of Victoria geophysicist Ross Chapman. > >The technology needed to recover seabed methane is still in the >development stage, but Chapman said researchers hoped the discovery >of such a large deposit would spur more research. > >"This is a very big discovery for us. It is important for (the >industry) to know that there is hydrate right on the sea floor," >Chapman said, noting that frozen hydrate is usually found several >hundred metres (yards) beneath the seabed. > >The researchers said seismic studies indicate the reserves in the >undersea Barkley Canyon cover about 4 square kilometres (1.5 square >miles) and could descend another 250 metres (820 feet) beneath the >surface. > >The methane, which freezes at higher temperatures under pressure, is >trapped in frozen water molecules. Officials were alerted the deposit >two years ago when a fishing trawler dragged up a one-tonne chunk of >the ice. > >The frightened crew hauled the hissing, melting mass on to their ship >before shoveling it back into the sea. Chapman said the crew was >lucky not to have been poisoned as the methane gas escaped from the >melting ice. > >The hydrates could also be an indicator of conventional oil and gas >deposits beneath the sea floor. Their composition is similar to finds >from the Gulf of Mexico associated with major oil and gas reserves, >Chapman said. > >When the submersible craft poked the seafloor, both oil and gas >emerged and floated slowly to the
[biofuel] Canadian fuelers
I would like to make contact with anyong making and/or using biodeisel in western Canada. Brent _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Intensive Course- DIY Skillshare Conference next weekend
Is there anyone willing to put on this type of workshop in western Canada? Brent >From: girl Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], >biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED], >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [biofuel] Biodiesel Intensive Course- DIY Skillshare Conference >next weekend >Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 08:58:30 -0700 > >Please post this to other energy-related lists... > >Biodiesel/SVO Classes at DIY Skillshare Conference, September 26-29th, >Berkeley CA: see end of message for conference details > >all workshops free > >1. Biodiesel Intensive- 4 days/ 16 hours total of instruction: > Learn to make quality homebrew biodiesel. This workshop will cover >basic single-stage process, safety equipment, quality testing, biodiesel >equipment building, washing options, recovery from mistakes, ffa recovery- >glycerine purification, materials handling tips, ethanol biodiesel, and >more. Students will make at least three batches of biodiesel from varying >feedstocks and will get a lot of hands-on practice with titration and >quality testing. There will be a 50-page text available ($4 donation >requested for copy costs) >Course runs thursday, sept 26 through sunday, sept 29th, from 2-6:30 daily >taught by girl Mark > >Biodiesel 101 workshop taught by Anton Berteaux >Saturday, Sept 28th, 10 am to 12 noon >A basic 2-hour intro to homebrew biodiesel > >Straight Vegetable Oil Conversion workshop >taught by Craig Reece and T. Gray Shaw >The workshop will address the differences between biodiesel and SVO >(straight vegetable oil) and WVO (waste vegetable oil) as fuels for diesel >engines. We'll be converting a late-80's indirect injection Ford F250 >pickup >to run on SVO/WVO, by installing a 12V inline fuel heater and a dedicated >fuel filter for the dedicated SVO/WVO tank, and the hope is that the >workshop participants will see and hear the truck running on vegetable oil >by the end of the day. We'll also discuss the commercially-available kits >for converting diesel vehicles to run on SVO/WVO - the domestic Greascar >and Greasel kit, the Canadian Neoteric Biofuels kit, and the German Elsbett >kit - and the costs and pros and cons of each. We'll also discuss custom >conversions, custom fuel tanks, the Webb Hot-STK in-tank fuel heater, >various fuel filtering options, including pre-filtering, technologies to >allow one to use SVO/WVO in colder-than-the-Bay Area environments, and >sources of free and almost free vegetable oil. >Workshop takes place Sunday, September 29, from 10 am till 2 pm > >DIY SKillshare Conference , now in it's third year, is 4 days of workshops >on practical skills and 'liberation technology'. This year we focus >strongly on renewable energy, with workshops on biodiesel, straight >vegetable oil fuels, methane digesters, alcohol fuels, solar cooking, >photovoltaics, and more. >This year's Skillshare is 60 workshops at the Crucible metalworking school >on 1035 Murray St, off of San Pablo and Ashby, in Berkeley California >Skillshare is free of charge, donations gladly accepted. The conference is >organized and run by volunteers and we welcome volunteers to help out >during the event. > For more information, please join our email list (low volume) by sending >a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or drop us a line >at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or snailmail at > po box 4934 berkeley ca 94704 >see www.tinkersworkshop.org/skillshare.html for schedule of other classes >offered > _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
