[biofuel] RE: OT: More on Measuring Appliance Energy Use
I have always thought this was two things. 1 Getting up to maximum mpg speed assume 75kph as quickly as possible. This means that minimal time is spent when an engine is at minimal efficiency. You might not be using much fuel at 10 kph.. But it would be better to use twice as much fuel and go 30 kph I think the typical best rate is at the torque peak. Sometimes you can have a larger engine have better mpg than a smaller engine, if the smaller engine is always struggling to pull the load and the accellerator is mashed. Im not saying that you should drive around in 4th gear just because it puts the RPM at the engines torque peak... Shift into 5th of course. 2 They don't want to release something that says hey everyone, for best mpg, just Crawl away from stoplights.. Else traffic is always crawling. Message: 1 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:22:56 - From: Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: More on Measuring Appliance Energy Use According to the Ford manuals I have, at least on the EEC-IV controlled cars (mid 1980s until OBDII stuff), accelerating as quickly as possible without going to wide open throttle (where the EEC-IV went open loop) gave the best MPG. This interests me. Could you be more specific about the Ford literature that states this? It seems to violate some basic laws of physics Thanks! Tim Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Energy plan mathematics was:Lieberman energy plan would slash US oil imports
I would imagine that a nice, fat tax of say 2 bollars a gallon would be helpful. All of a sudden, instead of making more sense, $$-wise to buy a Honda Civic,that gets 35 mpg, it now mkes more sense to buy the Honda Civic Hybrid model, even though it is thousands more in price. All of a sudden, it is cheaper to spend more to insulate you house, than just pay a little bit of oil monthly. this insulation, of course helps out in the summer too. All of a sudden, it really starts to hurt getting 11 mpg. Maybe you earmark this oil dependency tax and instead of disbursing it on pipedream 25 year programs that may not get you anything, you can use it to give tax credits to buy new super-efficient cars. This has a nice bonus of keeping the auto market booming.. too bad only for imports right now.. We could all put stickers on our discounted Hybrids and jetta Diesels that said.. Honk if you helped me pay for my car..! I think the cycle lifes you have given will be smaller at a higher $ per gallon. I don't know if you could do it, but if you only taxes imported oil, then all of a sudden, it becomes more worthwile to drill locally. ... even if you dont give fat tax credits for efficiency..- There is a nice market for used Honda CRX's here, where people pay lots of money to drop in more powerful motors.. for racing..etc. I imagine with a stiff 'oil dependence' tax, there would be a nice market for replacing engines with fuel efficient ones. ditto for the transportation industry. ..anything has to be better than conservation is not the answer but it has to be something more than we will have more fuel efficient cars. Its the same with cheap bulk food at warehouse stores.. at 99 cents a bag.. you can just leave chips out at the picnic and throw them away. at 10 bucks a bag.. you'll be more likely to bag up your extras and bring them home. higher oil prices will also get people to insulate their homes more.. which helps efficiency in the summer too. cheap prices mean you might rather pay a little mor a month.. rather than go through the extra cost of insulating more. Message: 2 Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 17:39:19 +0200 From: Hakan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Energy plan mathematics was:Lieberman energy plan would slash US oil imports To even suggest that oil dependence could be slashed in 7 or even 20 years is pathetic, as both Bush and Lieberman does. To get it down with two thirds in these time frames, is at best dreaming and at worse political scam. Let us look at facts. Private autos have a replacement cycle of around 10 years. This mean that if we had general availability of hydrogen cars today, it would take 10 years to replace existing cars. Transport vehicles have replacement cycle of 15 to 20 years. Buildings have 50 to 100 years replacement cycle and 20 years renovation cycle. Oil for heating and electricity production is nearly as large as for transportation. HOW CAN ANYONE TALK ABOUT SLASHING OIL DEPENDENCE IN 7 OR EVEN 17 YEARS WHO ARE THE IDIOTS THAT BELIEVE IN THIS, COULD IT BE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE? The developing countries have a golden opportunity to have a sustainable growth. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/BVVfoB/hP.FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] How We Lost the Victory
And the magic is finding a way to do it without sending good money after bad, and ending up accused of supporting a dictator or having local bullies take all the assistance, vs trying to affect some change, and be accused of sticking your nose in other peoples business. naturally, if you are aiding a likeminded gov't and people, then it is not as difficult, but then you have to worry about accusations of dumping and killing the local farmers. Message: 5 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 10:25:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Book [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How We Lost the Victory I apologize if my need to simplify things has caused anyone undue distress. I am aware that there are wonderful conserative people in this world, and also that there are liberals who I want nothing to do with. I am so tired of hearing affluent/educated people speak as if they are God's chosen few and it's all right to pull themselves up the ladder of success by using poor people's heads for rungs. IMHO, supporting those who actully do the head stomping are just as guilty of a crime as those who are creating the abuse/neglect. How can people who profess to believe in freedom, stand by doing nothing while millions die each year of starvation, lack of clean water, and sanitation conditions that would kill a pig. We are all God's children, no matter what name we use. kris Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] revote
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:07:28 +1000 From: Doug Foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: revote On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 02:42, you wrote: because unless everyone is honest, then you would have people voting for different candidates than before, because they didn't like the outcome. you would also have people, who didn't bother voting before, now voting. as well as people who voted before but can not take time off again to vote, due to various reasons. besides.. the cards had been counted many times. same results. Surely this is what is wanted? - a revote is really a time for people to rethink. Voting in Australia is compulsory, so a new election will let people re-assess the situation. It generally favours the incumbent. regards Doug I don't think that voters for Ralph Nader should get any more a chance to re-think their vote and more than people who voted for Ross Perot in 92. They had plenty of time to think and re-think about it before the election. They don't need to see results of their action and go, oops, do over! You would have to schedule it many weeks in advance.. to be fair to the people who need time to schedule time off. etc. Perhaps if, prior to the election there was a scheduled block of time,say one month following, that would be set as a relection time.. that would be ok.. but otherwise..you cant just say 'lets to it again on friday.. you are just asking to get sued by truckers or anyone else that wouldn't get to vote. Now we have two recent elections where a third candidate pulled many votes from one major party, and 'caused' the leader to lose. It is only a matter of time before impropriety starts taking place Al Sharpton can go running as an independent.. pull many votes from the Democrats..and get a payoff NOT to run from the Democrats. .. Not meant as a offense to Al Sharpton or Democrats.. just pick a party and a candiate that may get votes from that party.. Maybe we can get a candidate to run.. and instead of taking a payout.. says ..Make Renewables part of you platform.. and we drop the 'bleeder candidate' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get a FREE REFINANCE QUOTE - click here! http://us.click.yahoo.com/2CXtTB/ca0FAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
FW: [biofuel] tax in sweden
FW.. -Original Message- From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 8:09 PM To: Crabb, David Subject: RE: [biofuel] tax in sweden Hi David, From the beginning there were no cap on income taxes and it was very crazy consequences of it. Some 25 years ago the famous author Astrid Lindgren (Pippi Longstocking) was hit with combined taxes of 102% of her income. This was just before elections in Sweden. She wrote a famous tax fairy tale named the The wich Pomperipossa on several full pages in the most distributed news paper. The government then immoderately capped income tax to 80%, but was too late and lost the election. This capping was later improved and last time I heard it, the cap was 50% of your income. Today it is several capping on social security, income tax and other levies. Sweden went over to a Value Added Tax system, which later have been introduced in most of Europe. The major difference to other countries, is now the quite high wealth taxes. It is high taxes in Sweden, but the reputation is mainly based on the historical situation. It is similar to the reputation of Swedish girls sexual freedom, that was based on Swedish films some 40-50 years ago. Today the Spanish girls are as free as the Swedish, but the reputation is still there. Please post this on the list, because I would like others to read my answer. Hakan At 04:25 PM 4/14/2003 -0500, you wrote: There is a cap on income tax in sweden? I had a discussion in one of my email lists about this.. about increasing taxes 'costing' the people more via the disincentive to work more. ..ie flat tax.. sales tax..etc. I had thought the flat tax would be a nice even idea... everyone pays the same rate. perhaps with some floor so that poor people paid few if any tax. and a cap on the tax amount, so that person A didnt amount to paying 10 times as much as PersonB for 'being a citizen' and receiving befefits of society.. police and fire protection..etc The disadvantage of this plan was that people would say that it was a benefit to the rich as they wouldn't be paying as much of a percentage as upper middle class people. I thought it was very similar to the US social Securiry system, where say.. after 85,000 you don't pay any more tax into it. I think mainly because you will likely never need it, or there would be some cap on your returns so that you wouldn't ever get back any more, even though you would put in more, the more you made. just wondering if this same cap on tax was that which you refer.. thanks Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 19:39:20 +0200 From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Bringing democracy to Sweden Doug, I think that you hit something, when you talked about taxes. Using taxes for redistribution of wealth, was something that was introduced in Sweden in late 1950's and 1960's. It was and idea that Olof Palme picked up from the US democrats, when he studied in the US during 1950's. US also had a period of this, broken by Nixon and Reagan. In Sweden this went on, both longer and deeper, before capping of income taxes was introduced. Hakan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get a FREE REFINANCE QUOTE - click here! http://us.click.yahoo.com/2CXtTB/ca0FAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] revote
because unless everyone is honest, then you would have people voting for different candidates than before, because they didn't like the outcome. you would also have people, who didn't bother voting before, now voting. as well as people who voted before but can not take time off again to vote, due to various reasons. besides.. the cards had been counted many times. same results. Message: 1 Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 22:04:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Book [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Bringing democracy to Sweden The worst part of the whole bullshit mess was how the Democrats rolled over liked kicked dogs (nothing but a wimper). How could anyone with a sense of fair play be against a revote, when there were so many discrepancies. Our Forefathers must be turning over in there graves. If this continues, Republicans will soon be called Torys and we'll be dumping tea in Boston Harbor again. The Right Wing had better soon remember that, might isn't always right. I guess we had a King George back 228 years ago too. kris Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get a FREE REFINANCE QUOTE - click here! http://us.click.yahoo.com/2CXtTB/ca0FAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Bringing democracy to Sweden
And this is better than creating a traffic jam on an interstate so the likely suburban voters of your opponent will not make it home in time to vote? Atleast with 'the list', it is given to the counties, and they can use them or not some did not. If there is no one stepping forward that said X person paid me to manipulate the list it is but speculation. I certainly have a hard time believing that people would put their jobs and carrers and potential jailtime on an election that was not expected to be that close. Message: 9 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:45:36 -0500 From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Bringing democracy to Sweden Gee whilikers Steve, You just don't seem to be able to grasp the truth, do you? Ninety thousand plus legal voters purged from the voter registry, the vast majority of which were registered Democrats, and you're going to sit on top of your George Bush statue waving your red white and blue, claiming that a few hundred votes in favor of your favorite Martian were some sort of landfall. Do the math. With only a 25% voter turnout multiplied by ~80,000 Democrats would have yielded 10,000 - 20,000 votes in favor of the other guy. That's off the Richter scale compared to the paltry three, four or five hundred vote margin that came as a result of Katherine Harris' manipulation of the registry. You'd be dancing an entirely different jig today if it hadn't been for her high level of irresponsibility, incompetence and poor stewardship. Or was it really intentional? I guess only George, Jeb and James will ever know. But you seem to all too easily forget the details - its only the results that matter, huh? And then after conveiniently forgetting, denying or dismissing all the factors that generated that end result, you've got the unmittigated gall to try and con people into believing that it was the other camp that was underhanded. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] online democracy
Why not continue the online at the county level just like now. I can't imagine how a misaligned touch screen could cause an error, other than a bad input. Its not the same kind of an error as seeing one candidate on the screen while another one is 'saved' I have seen it myself.. my old man at the airport, getting mad at the touchscreen because it wasn't doing what he wanted he was fat fingering selections, and double tapping keys, etc He was terribly frustrated and then began complaining about the @[EMAIL PROTECTED] programmers make it so they can enter it and no one else can. Talk about embarrassing.. the only good thing was that we were able to bypass the line because the teller thankfully told him that she would help him at her station. So I can see how if you pressed out of line.. maybe it said Candidate A instead of B.. but then, you dont look at the screen to check for whom you voted? Even on a switch type voting system, I go back and make sure I am not voing for the eveil ones :) anyway.. As long as you send the data into the county.. and everyone can get a prinited ticket of their votes. then you can audit. You dont need your name on your ticket..big brother anonymous voting..etc.. but you can verify that ticket#34151588 says at the county, that which is on your ticket. So kind of like the fuel production that is proposed on this board.. localize localize localize. Naturally.. it would help if there was a standard across counties.. and they all had the same software. Open source that baby so 10,000 programmers can check for 'suspicious code'.. naturally you would get losing candidates doing the 'code audit' also.. heh I don't think you can do online voting without getting some kind of authentication keys.. and then you no longer have anonymous voting... Message: 4 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:35:20 -0500 From: csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Merry Christmas Was: Rigged elections (was Bringing democracy to Sweden Before this thread gets lost in the archives, I just wanted to let everyone know that:THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ONLINE DEMOCRACY (WHICH WAS DISCUSSED AT LENGTH AWHILE BACK) WILL NOT WORK!! This is because, although aLL person(s) voted, all votes are sent to a central place to be counted ... without paper trail. This would allow the fox (powers that be) to watch (or in this case, own) the chicken coop (the precious votes). And you want to extend this horrific concept to a global level?? OH!! Jingle Bells ... Jingle Bells .. Jingle all the way... Global One World Government all of us subject to a global president .. conveniently, DEMOCRATICALLY voted into office with Online Voting ... courteously provided by Jeb Bush, Inc.'Tis the season to be jolly, fa-la . And this thing about Corporate Constitutional Rights. First human beings get whacked with butts of rifles as unlawful combatants (which you know, ALL Americans citizenships will be reduced to eventually) and now this .. Corporations get elevated to God created beings with Constitutional Rights. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] [democracies]
I am not an authority on this subject, but I believe in order to truly be a democracy, then everyone gets to go vote. Certainly this is fine for town hall meetings, and county wide contests.. and a small number of items put up for public vote.. but it becomes more difficult when you are dealing with a large population over a large land mass, and a large number of items upon which to vote. perhaps someday, when everyone gets the citizen ID chip in their wrist or whatever orwellian device then you could have everyone voting for every item. ... but right now, supposedly it is a full time job doing politics, so the average person wouldn't have time to research all the issues in order to make an informed decision. What is UK then? - constitutional monarchy What is Canada then? - confederation with parliamentary democracy What is Australia then? - democratic, federal-state system recognizing the British monarch as sovereign What is Spain then? - parliamentary monarchy What is Sweden then? - constitutional monarchy What is France then? - republic What is Germany then? - federal republic What is Switzerland then? - federal republic and the USA - federal republic; strong democratic tradition I am very interested in your definitions of above countries. Hakan At 02:00 PM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: A democracy is mob rule. A republic is democracy with a constitution that specifies what limits the mob has. our 3 way system of government is set up with checks and balances that prevent any one group from over ruling the rights of others. It's quite simple in a complex way. It works for us. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bringing democracy to Sweden Steve, Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Smoking Gun WMD Site in Iraq..
From: MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Smoking Gun WMD Site in Iraq Smoking Gun WMD Site in Iraq Turns Out to Contain Pesticide http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0407-09.htm NEAR NAJAF, Iraq - A facility near Baghdad that a US officer had said might finally be smoking gun evidence of Iraqi chemical weapons production turned out to contain pesticide, not sarin gas as feared. Never fear, it will be 'found'. Andrew Preston Maybe they will but is it really as important now as it was before. Will US Fabricate WMD Evidence? With the US-led war to change the government of Iraq all but over there is still little sign of the weapons of mass destruction for which this campaign was fought. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0409-08.htm Maybe it will be found in the 'fabricated tunnels' under the nuke plant.. the same one the worthless inspectors seem to have overlooked... oops Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get a FREE REFINANCE QUOTE - click here! http://us.click.yahoo.com/2CXtTB/ca0FAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 1505
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:06:52 +0200 From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Bringing democracy to Sweden I would say that it is more difficult to bring American democracy to Sweden, than to Iraq. The Swedes are too honest and already too democratic, to be degraded to the US level. I have never heard of a Swede who wanted the American democracy. It is some Americans that, like children, complains about US bashing, whenever they find anything said that are not in their favor. They can themselves, with big eyes, say almost unbelievable offending statements about a world that they know so little about and then be surprised when others react on their idiocy and World bashing. You mean like implying they are not honest? I certainly agree with you that people shouldn't complain about that. By the way it is a smoking gun in Sweden, all military conscripts are getting gas masks and training in how to use them. It must be a proof of that Sweden maybe are thinking about using WMD. The problem is that they follow international law and have never possessed such weapons, but maybe we are training for the case that they would be supplied by US. Hakan Nice attempt.. but not quite. They would use them because they could possibly be exposed to WMD... I see that they are not issued antidotes for specific agents. hmm I wonder why not, especially seeing that antidotes are usually only effective against a specific class of agent. So it would be wise to disburse antidotes to those which you would be exposed. hmmm sounds familar. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Bringing democracy to Sweden
So taking the survey for what it is... 90% of all countries are either 'better' than Sweden or worse that the US... 10% off doesn't sound too shabby.. hardly all that bad, and certainly not far closer Thats like saying you have a VW Jetta that gets 55 mpg because it is a manual transmission and I have a Automatic version that gets 50. a couple of cars get better.. most of them worse.. and you make a statement like Man, your car is a guzzler.. far closer to a 12 Cyl. Lamborghini than my car I don't think the official was trying to slam Sweden.. perhaps it was meant to point out be a cultural issues where countries in Europe ARE democratic, yet 90%+ of MidEastern countries are not.. so it would be more difficult a task. then again.. you never know with those pesky US officials.. :) Are there many large areas of distinct cultures in Sweden? or is it largely homogenous? .just curious. Message: 14 Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:06:52 +0200 From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Bringing democracy to Sweden I had a moment filled with laugh and anger when I looked at an CNN interview with a high ranking US official. This enlightened idiot said it is one thing to bring democracy to a country like Sweden, but more difficult to a country like Iraq. As democracy Sweden is known as one of the oldest and best in the world and is in the fifth place, together with the Netherlands, of least corrupted countries in the world. US is in 16th place, far closer to Nigeria who is the worst. I would say that it is more difficult to bring American democracy to Sweden, than to Iraq. The Swedes are too honest and already too democratic, to be degraded to the US level. I have never heard of a Swede who wanted the American democracy. It is some Americans that, like children, complains about US bashing, whenever they find anything said that are not in their favor. They can themselves, with big eyes, say almost unbelievable offending statements about a world that they know so little about and then be surprised when others react on their idiocy and World bashing. By the way it is a smoking gun in Sweden, all military conscripts are getting gas masks and training in how to use them. It must be a proof of that Sweden maybe are thinking about using WMD. The problem is that they follow international law and have never possessed such weapons, but maybe we are training for the case that they would be supplied by US. Hakan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Iraq - The statues fell...
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:22:45 +0100 From: Andrew Preston [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Iraq - The statues fell... Robert Fisk: UK Independent newspaper today.. http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=395707 Thanks for the link.. now atleast I know that if i see a link from these guys in the future, I might want to disregared it as spin. old man shot in the head? my goodness.. I wonder where the most likely place to hit someone that has a car barrelling towards you and refused to stop. maybe they should have hit him somewhere that was not exposed.. like a foot or something. Something nice and balanced might have said something like People dancing in the streets, but some weary of US intentions. etc ..not America's mastery over the Arab world starts now... and you wonder why people are afraid they will be colonized.? a silly thought.. the UN would have none of it.. certainly the Arab World wouldn't. How many would let the US use their airbase then? and pretending to aim .. please.. Their most likely cause of death isnt going to be some tank, but rather some sniper or somone getting off a potshot. or running checkpoint and avoiding orders to stop..boom Someone may just have taken a shot and run, but you are just as read if you aren't wary. maybe some like this.. for balanced Military coverage.. http://www.esquire.com/humor/thiswayout/020601_mtw_rumsfeld.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Bringing democracy to Sweden
I agree. It's not salt solutions that were found with troops; therefore, they probably were not preparing for the need to have some water pumped into them, just in case they got too much sun. Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:30:10 +0200 From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Digest Number 1505 Antidotes are issued individually in a risk situation. It is central stocking points maintained for possible risk assessments. Training in self administering of antidotes are made with salt solutions. Hakan At 01:52 PM 4/11/2003 -0400, you wrote: Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:06:52 +0200 From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Bringing democracy to Sweden I would say that it is more difficult to bring American democracy to Sweden, than to Iraq. The Swedes are too honest and already too democratic, to be degraded to the US level. I have never heard of a Swede who wanted the American democracy. It is some Americans that, like children, complains about US bashing, whenever they find anything said that are not in their favor. They can themselves, with big eyes, say almost unbelievable offending statements about a world that they know so little about and then be surprised when others react on their idiocy and World bashing. You mean like implying they are not honest? I certainly agree with you that people shouldn't complain about that. By the way it is a smoking gun in Sweden, all military conscripts are getting gas masks and training in how to use them. It must be a proof of that Sweden maybe are thinking about using WMD. The problem is that they follow international law and have never possessed such weapons, but maybe we are training for the case that they would be supplied by US. Hakan Nice attempt.. but not quite. They would use them because they could possibly be exposed to WMD... I see that they are not issued antidotes for specific agents. hmm I wonder why not, especially seeing that antidotes are usually only effective against a specific class of agent. So it would be wise to disburse antidotes to those which you would be exposed. hmmm sounds familar. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/YKLNcC/oEZFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains M omentum
being one of the very few presidents who lost a reelection .. is just plain wrong to say that.. Since when is 2/3 of presidents not reelected considered to be a few Toss out 'superheroes' that dont appear on money and its even worse. I think if you look at the wartime era reelections... you will se that he has a good chance just based on that. Of course.. this can feed some nice fires of reasons for the war As long as he doesn't do stupid things like say he won't raise taxes, ..and then raise them.. he has a pretty good chance. ..especially if Nader runs again.. Message: 15 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 16:21:53 +0100 From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum Jerry, I think you misunderstood it, it is in foreign countries that a movement is growing now to boycott American companies/products. It is a reaction snip It is expected that the PP party in Spain will loose a lot of votes on this. Although Bush get a lot of support for the war in the polls, a majority says that they would not vote for him again. So he stand a far chance of joining his father in being one of the very few presidents who lost a reelection. The support for Blair show a similar tendency. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS .....
I think one might come across the old question.. you are on an island that is going to blow up or whatever crisis and there are 100 people. you have two paths.. one which will have a 50% chance of saving everyone.. but an equal chance that all will die. ..vs another path that 10% will certainly die.. but the rest will live. which choice would one make? Certainly some people can not make the first choice.. Nothing wrong with being able to make the choice. Chose one.. and all may die.. you are responsible. But then.. they might all make it. So do you make the choice to save the 40% by chosing the second path? You are responsible for the 10% dead.. you could have chosen the first option, and they might have lived. You would carry that baggage forever. Can everyone make that decision? Certainly not. Nothing wrong with that either. Then.. to make it even worse.. what if you had to choose which 10% had to die so the others could make it. Not something that makes for a good nights rest. That might trouble you the rest of your life. I think that Unicef is stating that 60,000 youngstersunder 5? die every year there needlessly? At what point do you say that the ones you save outweigh those that will surely die.? Some people would say never. Never an innocent. Some would be a small number, 10-15%.. 6-10,000 civilians. Caclulating person. Some would be 50%. Matter of fact, 'you are over the hump' And some would kill everyone take their wallets and get to the rescue boat, tell the crew the rest of them are over the hill and need help.. and after the crew leaves to help.. leave in the boat. ok.. I just added the last one.. but I dont see anything wrong with anyones point of view for the other three. Choosing one does not make your a sissy, nor a warmonger. Some people can say how can you make a decision that would kill 15,000 and others look at it as making a decision that saves 45,000. Maybe that can help them sleep at night, maybe not. Not everyone can make the choice that might cost another a life. assume you are already on the island and please no one just argue with me about how you got on the island, or that it is X person's fault we are on the island :) Message: 11 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:38:52 +0100 From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost! Dear Vern, I can not imagine anything worse happening to me than if I unintentionally or intentionally would cause the death of a human being. I met many people who has been in that situation and still have to meet one who has not been scarred for life of that experience. This has been people involved in accidents as well as people who participated in wars. I am not talking about decision makers nor am I talking mentally disturbed people. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] jeep TDI
does anyone know whether you can stick a vw TDI into a jeep wrangler? I like the wrangler as a no -frills vehicle, but dont really care for getting 16-19 mpg I believe I have seen 80's vintage VW diesels installed in Suzuki sidekicks, with apprx 35 mpg+ or so. The wife is not terribly fond of the Suzuki vehicle, though and would rather attempt a different route. I think there should be more room in the jeep engine bay. thanks for any help. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: [biofuel} protest
I think it is a silly issue. I don't believe in the story that it is just some neanderthal rent-a-cop, recently canned from McDonald's, wanting to show his stuff by harassing some hippies. could be true.. but since oither get to know what happened based on what was not in a report, so can I I think a highly plausible that you had two guys that were happy to buy their shirts and flop them on and show off their right to oppose gov't policy peacefully. Now you take some nice gung ho 'patriot' who make some comments about these fellows lack of patriotism. now you have an altercation. Security guard comes in sees the 'flopped on' shirt as the core of the issue, and the removal or covering of the shirt as the solution. Asks to either take the shirt off..continue shopping.. cover it..continue shopping.. or leave. The shirt wearers obviously chose neither. Now in this scenario.. I think is likely.. and we don't have to pretend that some guys are just running around the mall saying see my shirt, what do you think? Now, there might be a grain of truth in that.. perhaps one of the guys said.. oh my does my shirt offend you? and then pulled his shirt down to somone watching the altercation and said. does this offend you? So we might have some hint of truth to it.. but not some silly scenario where two guys are running around like monkeys, showing off their peace shirts Message: 9 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 22:31:40 -0500 From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: protest A bit like which came first, the chicken or the egg. Only in this case everyone knows what came first. Or perhaps even more on target would be comparing the t-shirt wearer to a woman wearing a low cut dress - of course everyone knows that she's just asking for it. Hearing such distorted logic should make everyone feel like throwing up where they stand or sit, whether applied to peace signs on t-shirts or plunging neck lines. Arrested for DWB..? (Driving While Black) The core reason why the two gentlemen were addressed in the first place was because of the text on their shirts. The confrontation initiated due to the lack of sensibility, decency, discernment and tolerance on the part of the rent-a-cop. To try and pawn the fault of arrest on the wearers of the garments because one refused to both remove the shirt or remove himself from the premises is fractured logic. Had there been no attitude, there would have been no confrontation, ergo no arrest and no problem. The issue at stake is what right does a private security guard have to demand the removal of a garment that expresses sentiment adhered to almost universally - that of peace? The shirts were not directed towards anyone's mother, they weren't pornographic or in poor taste. They only offended one mental midget. Does the same security guard have the right to demand that persons remove shirts that say Praise Allah, or Black is Beautiful or Rush is Reich or Bad Cop. No Donut or any of a million other thought processes represented in print? What if two people walked in wearing identical shirts that said Butcher of Baghdad, only one had a picture of Hussein and the other of George Bush? Or Pro-Choice or Pro-Life shirts? Again I'll ask, since when is the open request for peace and peaceful resolves considered provocative enough as to give cause for one to be asked to leave an establishment in America? Since when is peace not patriotic? Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/bbvVKB/oEZFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] protest
I agree it is silly. I was just saying that they werent arrested because they wore a shirt, but because they refused to leave. It was a protest to extent. How many people buy a shirt at a mall and then put it on right there? They could have just taken their shirts back off but did not. Thus begin their protest. If they came from home with the shirt on and only that shirt they would have had a reason to refuse. Like it or not, it was private property. Refuse to leave and you can be arrested. I think it was poorly handled, though. We don't really need the thought police running around. it was good to see all the other action happening with the fellow shoppers the next day. Message: 4 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:32:45 -0500 From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: protest Being asked to leave because the owner doesn't like what their shirts wear is ridiculous. They weren't starting a protest. 2 people is not a protest. They were walking, they bought the shirts in the mall. --- Martin Klingensmith nnytech.net infoarchive.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Gifts to North Korea
Message: 12 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:31:46 -0600 From: harley3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Gifts to North Korea -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 1:00 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Gifts to North Korea Kieth: I read the news story by Ms. Tomchick. What about this paragraph? By that time the Clinton administration was on its way out, unable to make any firm promises. Clinton managed to extract a promise from North Korea, however, to halt testing of long-range missiles, although no one really believed that North Korea has completely stopped work on its long-range missile program. After all, missiles are one of North Korea's main exports. (Remember the ship bearing North Korean missiles to Yemen that was stopped in the Persian Gulf a few weeks ago?) no one really believed that North Korea has completely stopped work on its long-range missile program. ... after six years of waiting in vain for the US to keep its promises? I think your reading of the story is very weird. Before your quote it says: [harley3] Keith how did North Korea wait in vain as they continued building long range missiles and Nukes? If they never stopped making WMD, why should US live up to it's part of a already broken agreement?Ps...Just because I don't interpret the news the same as yourself, that is considered weird? --- I would also imagine that if the N.Koreans went along building plants made to produce power rather than fuel for weapons + a smigen of power, then it would be a good argument. Athough I think his point that why should other trust the US is not uncommon out there. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] protest
Has anyone actually heard the security guards side of the story? Right now we only hear one side. We all know what we get when that happens. Message: 6 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 02:10:44 -0500 From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: protest Which makes the matter even more horrifying. Previously and supposedly once competently trained personel in public places who make these types of spurious decisions? It's one thing to try and make ends meet. It's all together another to try and make everyone else meet one's own ends. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] protest I guess people don't understand, that many rent-a-cops, are military and police, on off duty hours or retired, trying to make ends meet. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] diesel power supply
what is the magic of 1800 rpm? Message: 1 Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 19:56:20 -0500 From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: diesel onan. among a few others. the key is 1800 rpm engines. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 6:23 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] diesel Does anyone have any suggestions for good home power diesel generators made for off grid power supply? not just as a backup thanks Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] protest
They were arrested because they refused to leave. They were asked, by mall security, to either take off their shirts, or leave. Apparently the mall didnt want a protest starting etc. Its private property, they can do what they want. When they refused to swap shirts, they were asked to boogie. They didn't. Its pretty silly anyway, they could have just put their coat on. Of course, I suppose it could have been Los Angeles, and been semi warm and not needed jackets. Even so, they could have left and protested later. Refusing to leave private property is a no-no. Message: 9 Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 22:52:53 -0500 From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Jingoism Great isn't it? My father sent me a scan of a newspaper article about a man and his son that were asked to leave a shopping mall, and later arrested because they wore shirts that had the slogan Don't invade Iraq They were not even protesting. I watched a news conference with Bush tonight. Apparently Saddham Hussein is a direct threat to the US people. Hey, news to me... --- Martin Klingensmith nnytech.net infoarchive.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] diesel
Does anyone have any suggestions for good home power diesel generators made for off grid power supply? not just as a backup thanks Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 1375
Comments inside:
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:29:47 -
From: Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The oil in Iraq
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 20:41
Subject: [biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq
Wrong again, You may not have been paying attention as he played
his game
since the Gulf War, but, I have. He has been kicked inspectors
out of Iraq,
several times, since the end of the Gulf War.
{ken} Your memory may have conveniently failed you. Hussein did not
kick the inspectors out of Iraq. He asked the American members of
the inspection team to leave because they were CIA agents using the
inspections as a cover to spy on Iraq. The response of the
inspection team was to pull everyone out.
And if memory serves correctly, Saddam says the latest batch also is a bunch
of spies.
I don't believe they pulled out because they were a bunch of pansies and
couldn't handle
being called spies.
It probably had to do with access to sites being blocked etc and diplomacy
not having any effect.
Threat of military action does appear to have an effect, however. I
certainly hope that
military action is not needed. i don't want to argue with anyone about why
its needed..
just want to say that I hope it isn't needed.. thanks :)
One the other hand, accused spy Scott Ritter says that iraq is not a threat:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/09/08/ritter.iraq/
Given the standard set by GW should I run into his
house and change the regime? I think not. If we go in and
assume that this is good for us to do what if France decides that
since we have numerous WOMD that we should have a regime change
and masses troops in Quebec? Treaties be damed.
Your missing the point, Saddam has failed to comply with a Peace
Treaty, and several UN resolutions. When is he finally going to
comply? The US on the other hand, has bent over backward with
treaties as that concern WOMD.
(ken} there are many countries that ignore UN resolutions especially
Israel, and treaties are often ignored. The US has not bent over
backward with treaties concerning WOMD. Until just recently no
treaty eliminated nuclear weapons, all the treaties with the Soviet
Union limited future production and occasionally eliminated outdated
weapons. BTW hasn't Bush thumbed his nose at the Kyoto accord and
ignored the ABM treaty?
Probably has something to do with view of excessive regulation on the US vs
almost
no regulation on other countries like China, etc.
We could leave him alone and isolated. It worked for 9 years.
Wrong again, all it did was make him think that he can get away
with more.
We left him alone after the Iraq / Iran war, what did he do? He
went into
Kuwait, and caused acts to be committed that almost put him on par
with the
Talaban in some cases.
(ken) don't forget Bush's daddy led him to believe that he could
invade Kuwait with impunity.
Saying 'the US did not want to get involved in Arab politics' is not the
same
as 'go ahead to kill, rape, and plunder we don't mind, save some for us'.
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RE: [biofuel] Dodge diesels...more coming soon?
Hey this is great. Do these MB motors share the same 'potential' issue of the VW TDI? don't want to start another argument about whether there *is* an issue or not Message: 9 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:09:33 -0800 From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Dodge diesels...more coming soon? http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/buzz/b111502.htm Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Huge Fee Increases Proposed for Solar Energy in Ca l ifornia
I apologize for not being more clear in my question. I can see that it is as you say.. control and greed. What I am interested in is the reason given for the proposed increase. I hardly think they are going to say: We propose increases because we want to increase our 'under the table' payouts for our friends as well as to finance our corporate stock purchase plan for our Executives. In addition this extra money will help us stifle possible competition Next thing you know, the water utility company will charge people for getting bottled water delivered. Since they arent using as much water Message: 8 Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:21:09 -0800 (PST) From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Huge Fee Increases Proposed for Solar Energy in Cal ifornia Um, what could be the rational for this?? Control and greed! =) Those two things usually amount to most difficulties in the world. On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Crabb, David wrote: What could be the possible rationale for this? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] More reason for Unrest?
The patriot missle system was not intended to hit the target. While it would be extra nice if it did, there wasn't time givent the technology to do so. What it would do was go up and try to get in its path and explode close enough to damage it, hopefully destroying it. It was known to not hit it enough on the first one that a second rocket was fired, just in case. I don't recall any reports that guaranteed or promoted 100% accuracy. This is just wrong to say so. Any country buying it would know that some chance of deflecting is better then no chance. It was also well known that the reason for the accuracy that they *did* have, was that they were going up against very old scud technology. The new anti-missle systems detect and launch much sooner, pre-apex, and only need one. This guy may have some points, the problem is they are mixed in with 'look at how the WTC fell down, it had to be an implosion type of stuff. Then he went on do speak of the various other bombs in the other buildings that were carried out and covered up. That would be tasty for a journalist to report.. were is the evidence? What is this copy of college report stuff? Any links to this? Message: 4 Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 10:09:04 -0600 From: MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: More reason for Unrest? A article that sums up recent events and doesn't hold back -- Fake terror alerts: by John Kaminski 2-8-3 http://www.timewedo.com/special/kaminski/fake.shtml How stupid do they think we are? Only hours after our much-praised Secretary of State is revealed to have been using material plagiarized from a college student to justify why we're going to kill thousands of people with bombs, our government issues a terror alert and expects us to believe it? And how stupid are we? We believe it. Everybody takes it seriously even though Colin Powell has been shown to have perpetrated a colossal lie before the entire world, sitting in front of the assembled multitude of rectitude at the United Nations, exposed as having tried to pass off a decade-old college post-graduate thesis as supposedly cutting-edge Department of Defense intelligence. Used before the most august leaders of the world, this is supposed to be the best we can do? For all that money in the defense budget? I mean, shouldn't we be embarrassed to be caught in such a childish lie? Could the U.S. government have reached a new low in their sluggish and unintelligent efforts to convince the world it should bomb everything that doesn't love our freedom? But it didn't matter. The American people have become such dullards that apparently nobody made the connection concerning lying about the reasons for bombing Iraq and lying about the terror alert. Certainly not the TV news robots. Stupidest of all? The terror alert was meant to cover up the Secretary of State's very own sophomoric faux pas, but the piggies needn't have bothered. The TV anchorpeople, who worry a lot more about their hair than they do the fate of the world, didn't even blink an eye, didn't even make the connection, that if Powell is fabricating evidence culled from the out-of-date research - the grad student's work was assessing conditions in Iraq more than a decade ago - then what possible evidence could this most humane member of the Bush Cabal of Death have been using to suddenly whip up a new terror alert - which served no greater purpose than to take the world's focus off his own obvious incompetence and insincerity. His own lies. There could be no clearer evidence that the United States is lying - not only about its own objectives but also about its own methods, its own performance - and, as I'm sure our genuine enemies would notice, and most dangerous of all - its actual capabilities. There may be no doubt that the U.S. could totally vaporize Baghdad, and no doubt that America's demonic weapons of mass destruction have turned large swaths of Third World countries into radioactive wastelands, but there are real doubts that this two-faced gang of armchair cutthroats have the ability, the will or the intent to defend our country. Just look at the investigation into 9/11, the biggest crime in American history, and let me know if you see one. Just look at Enron, the biggest robbery in American history, and let me know if you see the big perps being brought to justice. Lies. Everywhere you turn are lies, couched in trite buzzphrases, uttered by incompetent functionaries like Ashcroft, who couldn't even make a decent middle school debate team, not to mention Bush, who will never learn that sincere statements later learned to be false mean you can never reach people again. Or maybe you can. Maybe people don't really care if the world is destroyed, if their own sons return to the Fatherland contaminated by radioactivity and poison vaccines. The insincerely enraptured media suckups, who have their own challenges to overcome, insist Bush
RE: [biofuels-biz] b@stard crabs
I apologize for my insolence and my nasty talk. Truly it did not promote the cause. I am not a 'greeny'. I am way on the other side, but I want to see renewable action. I see it as far superior to being tied to fixed energy suppliers like an addict. I annoyed me to no end to see Bush, whom I accually support, speak out one side of his mouth about supporting fuel efficiency and energy independence out of one side of his mouth, while cutting renewable programs out of the other. Again, my apologies for what I said, as it didn't have anything to do with running a business. That is, unless you might be able to accept such a grant. Normally I dont like gov't grants too much, but in this case as I see it as good for that country, it is ok. I'll put a scarlet @ on my forehead until i can contribute better. Apologies again.:) -- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 22:26:42 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [EMAIL PROTECTED] crabs In a message dated 2/7/03 4:11:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What does it take to 'convert' to run on biodiesel? isnt this just switching fuels? If they added cat converters to their fleet that would mean they HAD to run on biodiesel else clog them up then that would be a 'commitment' Otherwise.. thats like wanting kudos for running CF lights but if you dont convert the base so it inly takes F bulbs.. then any one can just replace the bulbs with incandescents.. and you are back to inefficiency.. Biofuels-biz; Right?
RE: [biofuels-biz] Bush Moves to Slash Fund for Renewable .. was Bush =...
This was an error on my part.I didn't explain my part and apologize. I was upset at the cutting of the program. I don't really think farmers should be given a subsidy for this any more than they should be paid to 'not grow' crops. to keep the price up The only subsidy I would accept would be for oil producing crops, and even then that is not entirely accurate. I would have the gov't buy the crops to convert to biodiesel maybe we can take some of the money we are spending to keep the flow of oil in the mideast safe.. hey.. how about all of it.. take this and actually start converting the oil. This would get it in people faces, etc. Once there is the market, more farmers would do it. More people with no farm but a little acreage could sublet land to make a few dollars, etc. If I understand it, jatroba grows in arid dry conditions.. this exposes land not normally farmable. I was upset at the cutting of renewable programs at the same time as saying we should get into renewables. I am losing faith in the man. I am not a fan of doubletalk. I think he honestly wants to do the right thing, but is being advised the opposite. - Message: 4 Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:45:52 -0500 From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: bush = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why do they need a government handout? I don't ask the government to subsidize my projects. A few close friends, if I think there will be a payback, but never the government. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:20 PM Subject: RE: [biofuels-biz] bush = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bush = the devil. w.t.*. is the excuse for this one. I'm starting to get mad at this guy. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] greenwash
I was attempting to point out that just saying the they 'converted their fleet' to run on biodiesel wasnt saying much to me. They can just switch back any old time they want, just by switching fuels. If they added hardwarecatalytic converter to make it so they couldn't switch back, then indeed that would be a 'conversion' to me. The lights were given as an example of being able to switch right back to incandescents because the bulbs were cheaper or 'already got the tax write off'. If you can no longer switch back to incandescents, then that would be a reason for a tax cut perhaps. Also a reason to really strut like a cock and say I am putting my money where my mouth is to conserve just putting in compact flourescents, however is easy to switch back after they go out. Where i am, it takes me 7 years to make back my cost of CF.. so it is a tough sell to some people. I do it anyway. I've had 5 blow out on my already, though.. not nearly 10 years of the guarantee..heh. but the recent crop is much better. I don't recall the brand, but they are guaranteed for 7 years. Not as much as 10, but I'll take 7 years and no blowouts vs 10 years and 5 blowouts. --- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:48:32 -0500 From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Digest Number 481 - Original Message - From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:17 PM Subject: RE: [biofuels-biz] Digest Number 481 What does it take to 'convert' to run on biodiesel? nothing, in most cases. isnt this just switching fuels? on newer vehicles, yes. If they added cat converters to their fleet that would mean they HAD to run on biodiesel else clog them up then that would be a 'commitment' indeed Otherwise.. thats like wanting kudos for running CF lights but if you dont convert the base so it inly takes F bulbs.. then any one can just replace the bulbs with incandescents.. and you are back to inefficiency.. ah, not much chance of that happening. one they are in, there's no reason to put the old ones back. they last longer and reduce my electric bill. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel]Democratic!???
hitler: You seem to be older than me, as you spoke of personal knowledge, so I will bow to your wisdom concerning this matter. :) All else would be speculation and estimation on my part as I haven't lived through it or seen anything on this. I think it would make a nice topic for the History Channel on cable tv, though. - politix: I wasn't trying to say that the Us system is the best.. just different. Different and not modified just before the election to give one party or another an edge.. they both had the same limitations. One man .. one vote = true democracy. The US is a Republic, so arguing that people were gypped is not really fair. The fairness being that you are stating that one man = one vote was not the election, so tallying results as if it was done that way is not fair. ie the people who didn't bother to vote because their district was known to be 75% for one party ..etc One may choose to not like it, thats fine. The father in a family often makes decisions for the children because 'he knows what is best for the family'. Of course the father for a state 'could' vote against the populace of the state. That state could then vote to get rid of 'Dad', something I am sure many teenagers would like to do sometimes.. heh energy: I dont know if it is fair to say that 4% uses 25%, because the same 4% produces more than 4% of the worlds GDP. I think i saw a link that Keith or someone else posted listing the various numbers. India for example.. used a huge amount of Resources per GDP. far more than the US. So if a country had a bunch of people that are just multiplying like crazy.. but not really making anything.. it appears that their energy use goes down.. by populace.. when in fact .. nothing might have been done. I will say that I don't know the US statistics for GDP vs energy usage to get that GDP.. it could in fact be poor compared to other countries. I ask that no one beats be on the head for not knowing. But I would think that 'if the US is using more than its share of energy to get its GDP'... Logically, other countries that take on conservation and energy efficiciency would be able to beat out US companies because they would be able to make their products at a cheaper price. they used less $energy$ to make their products. It seems that this, in and of itself, would solve problems. The US companies would go out of business, or atleast have 'less business' as people would buy the cheaper productfrom the energy efficient country .. I am just trying to see it logically. please no one beat me with an 'anti-US' stick. - I am just having conversation, I hope you arent taking anything personally. Message: 4 Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 20:40:36 +0100 From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Democratic!??? David, I think that some 70 years ago I would have got nearly the same answer from the Germans. Germans have an enormously respect for rules. When the Nazi party came to power, I have not seen any support for that it threatened people to vote for them, they were an opposition party. It was the special powers given to Hitler to fight the terrorists that gave them the possibility and context to hijack the democracy. We now know that the Nazis and the terrorists were the same, but at that time the Germans did not know. Florida vote debacle voted for the current president, the majority of the American people not. The fact is that if it was one man(women) one vote system, Bush would not be president today. Irrespective of the quite interesting Florida situation. Florida was for me quite boring as an example of the greatest democracy on earth and unfortunately not very surprising. If you take the populous vote for the whole of US, the current president would not be president or a new election had to be held. Your own conclusion. The French happens to know the middle east a bit better and they resist an Iraqi war, not to agree with US cannot be a sign of lack of democracy or an undermining of it. We have no idea of what the history will tell about us and normally it is the winners or survivors who writes the history. I also has a tendency to change with a longer and less emotional perspective. It would be interesting to know how they are going to look at US, who in 100 years managed to pillage and waste such a large amount of energy resources of the whole world. This without any consideration to coming generations or the owners of those resources or any lasting benefits. I also wonder what the judgement will be about the wars over the resources and the obvious inequality that can allow 4% of the worlds population, to use 25% of the energy resources. I also wonder what they will say about the environmental effects and the cost of lives it has today and the larger that it will have in the future. Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do
RE: [biofuel] doing with the wastes
I apolgize if I came across as an attack to call it junk. I called it that since my assumption was that if it was sewered.. it was junk. I just am wondering what most people would do. I like a decentralized fuel system, but not with many people just dumping waste. It would defeat the purpose. A few people might be ok to dump some of that stuff. But a whole lot would be bad. If one or two guys just dumps vegetable oil down their street sewer, it could be small enough of a problem, but if everyone in town did it at the same time.. it would be a mess. A little nitrogen in the water. manageable.. alot.. bad. algae plumes and dead zones.. etc. I understand that it can be ok.. but most people arent dumping a barrel full of drain cleaner down.. It would get worse if even more people did it in the same area. I was just wondering. what the wastes were and what people did with it. I was hoping that some people or companies actually wanted some of the wastes. ie: i had heard that you might be able to sell your glycerin to companies..etc. Message: 21 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:58:58 -0800 From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: doing with the wastes David Crabb writes: Sewer it? I hope that is not bad. what is everyone doing with the leftovers of processing? If you are dumping a bunch of leftover junk, then it kind of takes away from the green feeling of driving on biofuels, i think. Is the process that makes commerical grade glycerine too hard/expensive for most home brewers? The junk as you call it, is composed primarily of three things -- leftover(ie, excess) methanol or ethanol, glycerol, soap, water, and alkali (NaOH or KOH). Methanol, ethanol, glycerol, and soap are all entirely biodegradable over a very short timespan. The alkali can be sewered in urban areas to the same extent as any drain cleaner. If that is bothersome to you, it can easily be neutralized to NaCl or KCl using hydro- chloric acid. I personally have no qualms with any of that, and I consider myself fairly anal about what I put down the drain. This is why I'm particularly focussed on the gasoline denat- urant used in fuel-grade ethanol. It's the one component which is truly nasty As for purifying glycerol -- yes, it is beyond the capabilities of most garage-scale producers, including me..-K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Huge Fee Increases Proposed for Solar Energy in Cal ifornia
What could be the possible rationale for this? I find that most of the bad gov't plans are made by what appear to be well meaning but short sighted people. Surely, installing solar cells would lower the peak energy usage and the costly powerplants needed to provide this power. What is the logic for taxing the sun here? I certainly hope it isn't the old we tax energy usage to pay for the extra power plants.. these people aren't paying their share of the tax, since they arent using as much grid electricity The only one that I would think of that even makes some remote sense would be the extra costs that could be incurred safeguarding lineworkers when the power is off due to malfunction. They would want to make sure that companies aren't dumping power back into the grid while people are working on the lines. This shouldn't carry much weight, though, as that protection should be at the box where the company hooks up to the grid. The company should have already had to pay for a box that will not dump electricity into the grid when the power is down. From: Len Walde [EMAIL PROTECTED] What follows below is an important Wake-up Call for all renewable energy developers. If it gets a foothold in solar it will set a very bad precedence for All renewable energy. Please think about it and act now. The proposed letter is a good one but draft your own -- use it as a model so each letter reflects your thinking and perspective -- recipients have to realize you are really concerned about the ramifications of the imposition of exit fees. Exit fees are , after all just disincentive fees -- coercive, intimidating , anti-renewable, taxation without representation, attempts by Pacific Gas Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas Electric, to stifle the growth of renewable energy in All of its forms. snip - Original Message - From: List owner for solareclips [EMAIL PROTECTED] Action Alert: Huge Fee Increases Proposed for Solar Energy Customers in California January 28, 2003 What's at Stake: In the next 30 days, the California Public Utilities Commission will rule on a proposal that would severely undermine the growth of solar energy in California. California's utilities - Pacific Gas Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas Electric - actively support the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) to approve a new solar tax equivalent, known as exit fees. These proposed fees would dramatically increase the costs of using solar energy for utility customers. The proposal would give utilities the right to install meters that measure solar production on privately owned solar energy systems and increase the cost of this solar energy for customers by up to 40 percent. Help stop this bad idea from becoming public policy before it's too late. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] doing with the wastes
This is somewhat correct. Your example of coolant is exactly right. Not that many people flush their own coolant or even do it as often as they are supposed to do so. Take these same rocket scientists, who don't know what they are doing.. or just dont care once its dumped down the gutter.. and it 'could' be messy. I am all for renewables.. Its just that in this case.. I would rather have people go to 'jiffy lube', where it can be monitored. I would like the same for biodiesel production, lots of independent shops in town where I can get my biodiesel. With proven franchise practices in place. Now.. where can i get one :) Message: 10 Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:06:58 -0600 From: csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: People Was: doing with the wastes It's funny how just because it's common place ... it's ... ahem ... safe in our minds. Yet anything unknown ... the dangerous red flag goes up. We fill gasoline ... awe shoots ... some spills. Oh well ... we drive off. Change radiator coolant ... river running down the street. Spill oil changing it ... shovel some dirt over. But making ethanol and Biodiesel that generates major protest. Curtis Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] Digest Number 481
What does it take to 'convert' to run on biodiesel? isnt this just switching fuels? If they added cat converters to their fleet that would mean they HAD to run on biodiesel else clog them up then that would be a 'commitment' Otherwise.. thats like wanting kudos for running CF lights but if you dont convert the base so it inly takes F bulbs.. then any one can just replace the bulbs with incandescents.. and you are back to inefficiency.. Message: 8 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 04:53:28 -0800 From: Len Walde [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ENN article on biodiesel Hidden in an ENN piece, Bay Area PR Firm Creates Buzz in Organics, we find an interesting note on a small company converting to 100% biodiesel: From Straus Communications Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:00:00 AM Thanksgiving Coffee Company (www.thanksgivingcoffee.com), award-winning producers of gourmet, certified organic, fair trade and shade grown coffees. Founded in 1972 by roastmaster Paul Katzeff, Thanksgiving Coffee has a long history of social, environmental and business innovation - including the recent conversion of their delivery fleet to 100% Biodiesel. Thanksgiving imports coffee beans from more than 15 countries around the world, roasts them, and then distributes them to stores, cafes, restaurants, and individuals throughout the U.S.
RE: [biofuels-biz] bush = b@stard
Bush = the devil. w.t.*. is the excuse for this one. I'm starting to get mad at this guy. Message: 9 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 22:17:10 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: What's wrong with this picture? (apart from a lot of things) http://www.nrdc.org/news/newsDetails.asp?nID=878 Farmers Suffer Setback as Bush Moves to Slash Fund for Renewable Energy Projects 2/5/2003 4:05:00 AM (c) 2003, Chicago Tribune. Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune News Service. Quincy, Ill., grain farmer Jim Carlock's plan to start a wind farm to generate electricity suffered a potential setback Monday when the Bush administration slashed funds for such renewable energy projects. At issue is $115 million that Congress approved for such projects over a five-year period. For 2003, the Bush administration proposes reducing the $23 million Congress mandated to $18 million and eliminating $23 million set aside for 2004. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel]Nazi Germany was Democratic!???
Hey I hope i didnt come across badly in earlier post. I was just trying to say that political systems are different. I dont think one is designed more than another to let one in who 'didnt really win' If you take various other democracies, say you have 4 main runners. one gets 40 one gets 30 one gets 20 and the other 10. Some systems may 'give' victory to the 40% winner flatout. Others will say that 'no one had a majority, so lets keep the top two and rerun. In the above the third and 4th could have been offshoots of the 2nd guy's party, so those voters will now vote for the second guy.Now all of a sudden, the second guys wins 60-40. assuming no one else 'shows up to vote, and didn't vote the first time' Now.. I can see how people representing the first guy might feel 'robbed' of victory, but that is the way it works. If he had just won the first time with 51%, he wouldnt have been robbed. they are just different.. but they all have rules layed out ahead of time... thanks. RE: Democracy--Nazi Germany was Democratic!??? From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] high pressure fluids----------Introduction and so me questions - Newbie
Here is something about high pressue and dangers.. This is a video taken in 6000 feet of water. An undersea robot is sawing a 3mm wide slit (1/10th of an inch ... remember that width) in a pipeline. The pressure inside the pipeline is 0 psig, while the pressure outside is 2700 psi, or 1.3 tons per square inch. Then a crab comes along http://crustacea.nhm.org/~dean2/crabvspipe1.mpg dont be a crab heh.. and no jokes from you mean peeples :) Message: 1 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:49:49 -0700 From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Introduction and some questions - Newbie There is an out of print book Novel Drilling Technoques that in the second edition talks about cutting sandstone at several meters per second with liquid pressures of that magnitude. Granite I think was 7cm per second if memory serves. Obscure technology. Anyway, you can lose a lot more than just soft tissue. Even a couple hundred psi can inject you like a hypodermic needle. Probably wouldn't be a good thing to happen. Kirk Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] palm source
Speaking of this is there a ranking on the easiness of collecting the crop? jatropha sounds nice for arid areas, and looks highly productive, but can you get to the oil source easily? I don't want to spend 10 times as much time collecting the 'fruit of the labor' Atleast coconuts are easy to locate..heh How about actually extracting the oil. I assume that some have to be better than others? And the cake left over, some would have useful by products that others would not have. ie: $$ from your waste. Even if you can give it away, atleast you aren't paying to throw it away, or worse, polluting by dumping it somewhere. biodegradable has its limits..dump enough apple juice in a creek and you will have harmful effects. Message: 7 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:52:10 -0800 From: Myles Twete [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: palm source David- And the numbers in such tables can be widely disparate. For example, Euphorbia Lathyris, in Tickell (see http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/biodiesel.html ) is rated as the 2nd highest non-tree plant source of oil at 1119kg-oil/hectare, while at journeytoforever it is only rated at 440kg-oil/hectare (below pumpkinseed) and in fact 11% higher yield than rapeseed. Meanwhile, Oil Palm at 5000kg oil/hectare is rated in both places as the highest yielding tree. So for trees, the answer's clear: oil palm. For bushes, castor bean. For smaller plants, it's hard to tell---I contend it's euphorbia lathyris (gopher plant), but that may still be a matter of disputemeanwhile it grows better than anything else in our yard and nearly all year round here in Portland, Oregon---very wild, free and productiveI just don't know a cheap easy way to get oil from it safely (elements of the plant are considered toxic or cancerous). -Myles Twete, Portland Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel]OT: Columbia Space Shuttle Lost
I believe that they dont take a bunch of extra fuel around just in case they need to get to any object in the earths orbit. Its not like they can just fill up at a station along the way. although this is interesting, they could leave refueling items at various places in orbit, should this need to happen. I don't know about how long items can stay there like that, or if that is really safe though.. a bunch of things waiting to go off like that They are at different altitudes and different locations. If they arent going to take a jet pack for emergencies because of the extra fuel involved, I don't think they will bring along a large amount of extra fuel, just in case. Also, they had already been up there quite a while. They take along X amount of Air also.bringing alot of extra costs a lot. just my two cents.. but then again,, I am no rocket scientist. And even then.. this is assuming that they knew there was a real issue. if they *did* i am certain they would have had 'last messages' etc.. just in case they didnt make it. and I dont beleive they can just flop another shuttle up there on a days notice, even if one was not currently being inspected for things, being upgraded..etc. Message: 10 Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 22:22:54 +0300 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: OT: Columbia Space Shuttle Lost If they had determined in space that the Shuttle was not safe to return to earth the move would have been to send them to the Intl. Space Station where they could have docked and just sat it out until we could send a different shuttle to get most of them and if there were still two left up there in the Intl. Space Station they could be brought back in one of the Russian ships as they have three seats and can be flown by one person. They may also have been able to stay until the second shuttle arrival if that was determined to be the better solution. Keeping in mind that if the Columbia had been determined to be unsafe in space we may not have felt that it was required to ground the fleet until we have clear answers as to what the cause is and we would know the problem and cause from the information that was developed to determine that they should not try the reentry in it. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Democracy--Nazi Germany was Democratic!???
I think it would be safe for all of us to agree that it was not Nazi Germany was Democratic but that Nazi Germany came into being in a democratic system? I think you and Thor both have some valid points. I don't, however, agree with you on your comparison to Today's Us president and the fiasco in Florida. Like it or not, it is a republic and thats the way it works. People can cry all they want about how it isn't fair that their guy won by a slim margin, but the rules ...are the rules ...are the rules. It is designed so a knowing few could better make desisions for the whole they represent than a mob of people, many of whom could be easily led and influenced. Its not even fair to say that it was a greater number anyway, since in the margin of 'victory' of the popular vote was even less than required in districts to require a recount. Using a popular number isn't really accurate anyway, as persons from one state where there is a lock for their choice may not even show up to vote. Ie: if their candidate has a 75-25% victory.. some just won't go, since it won't matter. another reason not to report results early A better comparison will be to compare a current state where you are told that if you vote for the opposing party, harm will come to you, or better yet, if you run against the current party, you'd better have your affairs in order. kind of dismantling the opposition. I think we can all think of a few good candidates. ..and last time i checked.. no one was threatened with their lives to vote or not vote in Florida,.. besides.. Bush wasn't even the incumbent. Speaking of history.. I personally think the French haven't learned from theirs... and are about to try to negotiate negotiate negotiate it away. .. but thats just my opinion. I hope you don't think I am attacking any view in any way. thanks Message: 16 Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 04:02:13 +0100 From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: Re: Democracy--Nazi Germany was Democratic!??? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel]palm source
Does anyone know what species produces the most oil? how about maturity times? thanks Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] air car
Sorry about that.. i guess it is the medium. I misinterpreted what you were saying. Of course.. this Is kind of silly since the 'car doesnt exist' ha. but if you can just compress the ambient air.. there certainly could be benefits such as not having to deal with pure hydrogen and oxygen. a benefit if you could do it with solar..wind..etc would be that you could do it off the grid. Wind kind of leaves those in the city out, though.. not much free space. Those that do have free space, may not be within range of work.. I think that cities are naturally good at channeling winds.. i wonder why certain places can not use wind. and I havent seen any on buildings.. as to your 'South California Edison', I am pretty happy with my power company.. I think a more local level power can be ok.. but too local that there arent adequate safety measures.. etc. the guys pulling off cat converter equipment to 'save a buck or two' Have a good day. :) Message: 8 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:20:18 -0800 From: Tricia Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: air car It's a follow up on your topic on energy storage. Instead of battery, power generates from Solar or Wind can be transformed to Hydrogen or compressed air for later use. Either for air car, water car or home appliances. Didn't get involved in emmission, but safety will need to be supervised. Hydrogen and pure Oxygen are dangerous! I'd learned this is a group discussion, not that we pick on one particular person or subject. Take it easy, your discussion is interesting and just added some of my comments. Different participants have different styles, that is okay with me! Hope that my style is okay to you!! Normally never address to one particular person in sending comments. Sorry about you felt that I had been pinpointed your talk and that was not the case! And certainly had found out South California Edison is not our mutual friend! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] lupo powered kit car hybrid
Probably a couple of factors,i.m.o. 80 is probably the cruise. It doesnt include the 20+ miles that the vehicle could drive before even using a drop of diesel. Drive 30 miles and you are getting 800 mpg. of diesel 'used' of course 80mpg is in basically, a convertible. It would have less drag were it a covered car. slightly more weight, but it depends on whether the 80 is a 100kph or 50kph This is not by an auto company. This probably is the reason for the above not being a car. That car was something they could achieve as an inexpensive, lightweight mid engine car. Fewer bux = more shortcuts. Personally, I don't thing there is anything wrong at all with a hybrid that gets exactly the same mileage as another model.. but gives one the ability to drive without starting a motor. Not that there is anything wrong with a car that uses the Electic motor solely as a acceleration booster/regen. They are two different cars, though, I think. Two cars that appeal or fit to two different needs. Some EV enthusiasts dont even like the combining of ICE and EV.. 'taints the vehicle'..'it was simple.. now its complicated' Of course.. it would be nice to have two vehicles.. an EV for short trips.. and the hybrid for long trips. but not everyone can have both. Message: 25 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:00:17 -0500 From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Okay. But therein lies the conundrum. To take an engine from an existing auto that already gets 78.5 mpg and put it into a hybrid configuration only to get 80.0 mpg would give the inclination that something is largely awry. A hybrid that only gets 1.5 mpg greater efficiency is a great deal of work and cost for very little payback. While physics may be a factor, that and the university's material resources, I would think that if done properly the hybrid would be able to attain ~100 mpg. Not knocking it, and a person has to admit that the sports car has a bit of a different appeal than the Lupo. But something seems to be awry on this one. Hopefully the engineering students and mentor have already determined what that monkey wrench is. Todd Swearingen Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Not Building Green Is Called a Matter of Economics
Regarding the monolithic domes and earth stuff from previous posts and this. Could one take a standard beam construction. apply a layer of polyurethane,and then apply a layer of shotcrete to fill the void. I would think this would give one the insulation properties of the foam.. with the thermal mass of the concrete. you could then just cover it up with drywall. Then you would get some benefits from the dome.. without looking odd. and you wouldnt need special items like foam brick..etc.. or would this just be too expensive. Message: 23 Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:47:18 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Not Building Green Is Called a Matter of Economics http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/15/business/15BRIC.html?tntemail0=page wanted=printposition=top January 15, 2003 Not Building Green Is Called a Matter of Economics By MICHAEL BRICK ROCKVILLE, Md., Jan. 8 - The tools for constructing environmentally conscious, energy-efficient office buildings have existed for decades, but commercial developers have not adopted the principles of what is commonly called green or sustainable building because a compelling case demonstrating the economic rewards has not been made, according to specialists in real estate, finance, design, construction and environmental health and safety. This is a concept that has sputtered along for 20 or 30 years, said Daniel R. Tishman, executive vice president of Tishman Realty Corporation. It's an economic thing. It is a phenomenon with parallels to the popularity of sport utility vehicles, except that buildings are responsible for more than 36 percent of the country's energy consumption, and transportation only 27 percent, according to the Energy Information Administration of the Department of Energy. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] air car
I am afraid that i don't see what all this has to do with what i said. I was talking about the potential benefits of a car that could run on the energy stored overnight by compressing air. My example was of solar panels on a roof either directly running a compressor. I suppose maybe you are talking about how i prefer to have one power plant running power instead of 1000 people running generators. I am talking about the emmissions end of it. 1000 people running generators because they want to stick it to the power company however evil they are is not a good thing, emissions wise. If you want to run solar, or wind or hydro, thats all good, even run a nice Capstone Turbine for the neighborhood if you all want to... but not 1,000 guys with 300 dollar gensets.. pleeze. ..dont know what an air car has to do with the Mid East.. Message: 7 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:46:16 -0800 From: Tricia Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: air car In the future, Solar or wind to generate electricity at home. Either to produce Hydrogen or Compressed air. They run not only the cars but your home appliances/lighting and everything else! President Clinton called that decentralized energy policy, no need to depend on big oil or energy companies! Right now, we can not live without the oil and energy companies. All energy production is highly centralized in those big companies, they get to swing the policy! Edison did that in California, and everybody can see how that happened. You pay up or I cut you off power supply! Energy shortage? Friend in Arizona tried to set up a facility to use solar panels to generate power and sell for money. The best price he could find to sell those electricity is 1 cents per watt. And in Southern California, we are paying 11 cents for business and 13 cents for residential. From Edison's self deceiving commercials on TV, they are still claiming they are serving Californian! Other states even offered help to sell electricity from their power supply to California, none taken! Being screwed by your own power company! And still have to keep their services after they had done all these! Spineless human! If Bush's energy department has the same like-minded focus as this discussion group. At least there will have several projects that can work on. To find out the best energy solution, Biddiesel, Hydrogen etc.. But you can see it's not happening and that probably not what the big energy companies want the president to do. Al Gore mentioned that instead of using the momentum gathered after- the 911 attack to urge American to conserve energy or use other alternative energy. They decided to use that momentum to support more military deployment in the Middle East! - Original Message - From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:13 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] air car I am sure the transmission loss factor vs gas formulation cost has been beaten to death in other discussions of EVs. But just to make is more simple. assume your Solar panel is sitting on your roof. there wont be too much of a transmission losses. so all day long, you can compress air in a tank at home. when you get home, you can transfer this to your car slowly overnight, adding more if needed overnight cheaply. I suppose you could add a bank of batteries at home, instead of a an air tank. But then you would lose 10% getting the juice into the batteries and 10% getting it out. I would rather have one powerplant with one pollution source.. than have 1,000 guys at home with generators. New pollution control technology only has to happen once.. not 1,000 times. I also wouldnt have to worry abou Jimbos taking pollution controls *off* their generator,.. to save a few dollars. you know it would happen Also, I don't want a generator running in my garage at night..pyew.. nor out back. I certainly dont want my neighbors running them... i wonder how happy people would be happy when one of the muffers starts to go. Man.. now i have to go bother to fill up gas cans again.. i thought that was a reason to buy this stupid air-car in the first place. Of course.. these vehicle.. if existed.. would not be everything to everyone. No current car is now, why do potential alternatives have to be. EV.. etc.. Someone complained what if i have to drive 100 miles or something.. use a second car.. or rent one. If you have to do it every week.. buy a different car. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info
RE: [biofuel] Change of Pace
Over here on our west coast, they started increasing the registration fee for honda insights. Why?.. the logic was that they weren't paying 'their share' of road taxes on the fuel. They deemed that since they were using the road when driving, they were not using as much gas as everyone else, and therefore, were not paying as much tax. I can see how the English gov't might see people using fuels to drive around , committing wear and tear on the roads but not paying the tax used to repair those roads, as being a 'problem'. I guess it is how you look at it. I don't see that it should be a big issue. Why doesn't the gov't just install a tax on collecting the waste oil? Use the same per gallon tax as on diesel. Message: 2 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:33:50 -0500 From: studio53 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Change of Pace Regarding the air car, I don't even know why we are talking about a car that doesn't even exist and in my opinion will not exist in our future. Might as well be using the bandwidth to talk about a vehicle that runs on MGP. (Magnetic Gravity Pulse). Very, very far into the future. Germany has an excellent government consciousness about bio-diesel, yet go across over to England, and you are back in the stone age. The English police are actually arresting people and charging fines for innovative and creative alternatives to fossil fuel. That alone tells you how far the English government is up Big Oil's a$$. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] air car
I am sure the transmission loss factor vs gas formulation cost has been beaten to death in other discussions of EVs. But just to make is more simple. assume your Solar panel is sitting on your roof. there wont be too much of a transmission losses. so all day long, you can compress air in a tank at home. when you get home, you can transfer this to your car slowly overnight, adding more if needed overnight cheaply. I suppose you could add a bank of batteries at home, instead of a an air tank. But then you would lose 10% getting the juice into the batteries and 10% getting it out. I would rather have one powerplant with one pollution source.. than have 1,000 guys at home with generators. New pollution control technology only has to happen once.. not 1,000 times. I also wouldnt have to worry abou Jimbos taking pollution controls *off* their generator,.. to save a few dollars. you know it would happen Also, I don't want a generator running in my garage at night..pyew.. nor out back. I certainly dont want my neighbors running them... i wonder how happy people would be happy when one of the muffers starts to go. Man.. now i have to go bother to fill up gas cans again.. i thought that was a reason to buy this stupid air-car in the first place. Of course.. these vehicle.. if existed.. would not be everything to everyone. No current car is now, why do potential alternatives have to be. EV.. etc.. Someone complained what if i have to drive 100 miles or something.. use a second car.. or rent one. If you have to do it every week.. buy a different car. Message: 4 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:54:13 -0500 From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Taxed To DEATH - AirCar You need to take into account the efficiency losses: Hydro/Nuclear/solar/wind/etc Electric generator - transmission lines - electric motor - mechanical air compressor - pipes - air motor - mechanical transmission - rubber wheels I don't know how efficient this would be, but I'm guessing below 4% (if my guess makes a difference) It could be made better if you used an internal combustion generator, but you still have a lot of conversions: Crops - oil/alcohol - IC engine - mechanical air compressor ... etc Crops would include energy used to plant and maintain the crop as well. I guess the above process would be about the same with a hydrocarbon fuel. However if you're going to use an IC engine anyway, what's wrong with an IC/electric hybrid? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: californians 50%
Also.. I just wanted to state that I was not trying to say that the 50% was only because of the climate. Just that the climate had to be taken into account. If you just look at the san diego zoo as an example. Go there in the summer time, and it is hot as balls outside. In one of the entrance, there is a large dome-type building. No.. ac.. ..open on the sides. Walk in there and it actually is actually tolerable. Made me want to build a building just like that .. but put living quarters inside.. ..add to this that a good percentage of California can be said to be multi family in a house, and the per capita figure might be skewed a bit. Ie: if you have more people living in houses that may not need AC or very much and need little if any heat in the winter.. and you may have dinky energy usage per person. Now.. this is not to say that all the money spent into conservation isn't working.. i certainly would like my state to have the nice incentives for solar and alternative power than Calif has... Right now, I pay 3.5 cents per kWHr.. so it takes a lng time to make the extra money back from Compact Flourescents. Your average Joe isn't going to do it here. They will just spend the 40cents for a incandescent bulb vs 8 dollars for a CF light. To me.. it is worth it for the piece of mind that there isnt some diesel plant spewing less junk for my lights. I think the average person knows money.. and *would* spend money to convert lights 'permanently' to flourescents, if it would mean they got a tax break. Less power needs = less power plants which is good for us all. Message: 2 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 08:06:24 -0800 From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: californians 50% ...I had the chance to look at some but not all of your research. My initial reaction is to somewhat stand by my view that David has a point. In a way, I'm saying, you're both part-right. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] air car
Of course.. since they will need to tax this like they will tax you for making your own bio-diesel.. they will effectively be taxing air... ha Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:55:42 - . From: Nick Taylor (SMTechnology.com) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Taxed To DEATH $1.67 a GALLON??? You are having a laugh...no actually the British government is having a laugh, we pay that per litre ...and they still won't support biodiesel production. The idea of moving to Denmark seems more attractive every day!!! Sorry...never heard of the Air Car...though it sounds cool. You have to remember that in the UK we are severely behind the times, and I mean SEVERELY. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] 1% diesel
I think it is because it is extra stinky here, and no one likes to get that stink on their hands.. because you carry that for a while. People are lazy and dont want to put the gloves on.. heh Also, you cant go to every station and get diesel.. so that limits the ability to go driving about late at night. for those that live near interstates.. it could be a reasonable option. Also the sootiness is a turnoff for many people. I guess it is ok to just pour puke that you cant see in a gas car.. but a little soot on hard acceleration is bad in a more fuel efficient car.. go figure. The fact that you can only get a VW jetta etc.. for the common man.. means that servicing is more difficult. not that many VW dealers.. etc. You could get the Mercedes.. but then.. thats more money than most poeple can spend. You *could* get a pickup if you had to have a local model.. but then you are now getting 18mpg. and you sound like the local trash truck. It would be nice if one of the domestics could get a deal with VW and get the diesel option for a motor in a car. I would think that DiamlerChrysler would now have the expertise to transplant one of their diesels locally. a 50mpg Dodge Neon would be a nice selling point. Tricia Liu wrote I was told that the reason only 1% American drives Diesel car is because the Diesel is $1.67/gallon while gasoline is $1.60/gallon. And not available in all gas stations. But in Europe, Diesel is far more cheaper than Gasoline for about how much cheaper? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] bumper stickers
I thought a good add would be to show some poison.. maybe some weedkiller.. thrown on some grass.. and then showing the grass dead.. and then show some idiots burning the weedkiller and smoking it and maybe saying.. 'what do you mean breathing this is bad and then show some gas poured on some grass.. and then some veggie oil on some other grass.. then the next day or two.. and show the grass that the gas was on was killed.. just like the weed killer. but not the veggie oil ...dont know if you can toss biodiesel on grass or not.. --Message: 4 -- Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:19:02 -0800 -- From: Sally Stoik [EMAIL PROTECTED] --Subject: RE: Re: [biofuel] Re: bumper stickers- let's make 'em! :) --Supply Demand Biofuels NOW -Original Message- --From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 5:13 PM --To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com --Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] --Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Re: bumper stickers- let's make --em! :) --Power of repetition, Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] RE: californians 50%
Re: Californians 50% I don't want to step on a good thing, but is it 50% because of the climate, or 50% because Californians are different or more energy conscious? My gfather lives in San Diego. He almost never has to turn the heat on, ever. He only uses AC on the hotest of days.. perhaps 5 days if that. Contrast that to my coast, and its cold cold cold in the winter.. and hot and muggy in the summer where you might leave the AC in the car on while you tkae a shower and get ready for your date..lest you get all sweaty before you AC can cool your car. not everyone owns a garage So i dont really like the 50% one.. on the other hand.. THIS ONE http://energy.saving.nu/biofuel-sticker-3.jpg is absolutely hilarious. and gives you the secondary point of committing suicide on your dependence on the pump. funny.. :) Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Capstone Turbine generator
Here in my state we can have alternative power providers. One potential is to provide a Renewable Power Option. This has atleast one benefit, in that you can charge different rates for you power than the local Power Company. So even if it is slightly higher at first, you would be able to charge more for your power. Might be able to swing people over that dont have the time or expertise to do their own work, but might pay another penny per kWHr. Obviously, this has to be within reason.. not many will pay double,etc, even if it is green. The fact that you might get tax incentives for starting this up would help costs. How many KWhr would you get per Gallon of avg VO /Biodiesel with this system? Message: 6 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:05:31 -0800 (PST) From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: capstone turbine generator Combined heat and power. There is a rebate on any generating device using alternative fuels, something like $2Kw up to a certain limit. I have the info somewhere. There are rebates on PV, Wind, alternative fuels, and hydro. Lemme look further. BTW, this is only for businesses. James Slayden Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] glycerine
If you burn straight VO , are you releasing acrolein? Is it better to deal with the nastiness of this vs the nastiness of using Methanol to convert to Biodiesel.? what about if there is a cat converter? thanks Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] capstone turbine generator
This looks rather nice, but since that is about 6 feet tall, it certainly won't fit in my CRX. On this item, what is the approximate cost, in qty of 1 or 2? Does anyone know the efficiency of this beast? It looks like it can run on compression-ignition fuels.diesel, biodiesel,VO. One could conceivably run power off this and reclaim waste heat to heat water or for house heating for increased efficiency to 100%. How about the emissions? It might be overkill for one house, but for a small group of remote houses, or for off grid... Message: 3 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:55:51 -0800 (PST) From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: diesel gen might want to take a look at Capstone: http://www.microturbine.com/ James Slayden On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Crabb, David wrote: Hello., I would like to stop pumping petroleum into one of my cars. I am looking forward to trying to convert a crx to run on hybrid powertrain. I would like to run a diesel generator, inline with a clutch, then a dual shaft electric motor, then into the transmission. Are there any companies product range that would include generators that run in the same direction as the Honda motors? Naturally, I would like to run biodiesel, then SVO, as i have plenty of available wattage to heat the inital small tank of oil. thanks Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 1310
Well, thats kind of silly, I wonder what the logic is? ..well atleast the logic 'given'...heh I apologize for speaking otherwise.. I asked a Tax advisor, and he went into it, but didnt mention anything about a weight limit. sorry about that. Message: 2 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 05:36:33 -0800 (PST) From: Mon Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Digest Number 1306 David, You are partly right. The rebate is for business, but it is based on the weight of the vehicle. If you buy a $50K SUV and a $50K electric car, you would in fact get more tax refund over a period of time than the electric car (unless the electric car meets the weight requirement for the tax break). Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] why Diesel generator
My mistake.. I meant to say Diesel engine, that might normally drive a large generator. Intent is to have an engine that is as small as possible saves fuel to propel the vehicle at highway speeds. I imagine a 15 hp motor would do it. Its a small car. It is ok to have max of 90 kph Passing, accelleration, and regenadded later would be handled by the electric motor. Goal is to use as little petroleum as possible. With a secondary goal to run Biodieselor Vegoil through it and cat converter to be as cleaner. I'm not a conspiracy freak on the oil companies it could exist, i just dont know, but I just don't think that taking all the other junk stored in oil a loong time ago.. and releasing it now can be a good thing. Veggie oil, on the other hand, atleast takes CO from the atmosphere to make it. and no one is just burning natural gas as 'waste' to make it Message: 19 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:11:08 -0500 From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: diesel gen Why would the generator be physically in-line with the motor? The function of a diesel generator is to produce electricity. As long as the electricity is fed to the electric motor (dual shaft or not), and the electric motor is driving the transmission, I don't see the need for the mechanical linkage from the diesel generator to the drive train. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] subsidized crops
Comments inserted: Message: 3 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 23:45:35 - From: motie_d [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE:Ag subsidies --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would think that instead of having agricultural subsidies, or paying people NOT to grow things on their land, that we should instead get subsidize them to grow biofuel on their land. I disagree with subsidies in general. I thoroughly disagree with paying subsidies for producing massive quantities of a product that can't be marketted. If automakers produce more cars than they can sell in a year, should the government set a price above the market value of them, and buy all they can produce at that artificially inflated price? The product *would* be able to be marketed. It would be used to grow crops that can be converted to biodiesel that can be melted into the current diesel market at 10% something like that or can be sold to owners of engines that can run 100% biodiesel. I don't know if it has to be a subsidy.. it could just be the gov't buying the product, and then doing to convert itself, and then selling the final product. Instead of paying people to do nothing, the fact that there is a market for the oil producing crops rapeseed or palm would raise the price of the crops anyway, due to increased demand. Here atleast the taxpayer pays for 'something' instead of 'nothing' Or agree to pay $X per amount of product., if you still want to keep the price of soybeans up. That is somewhat what is currently happening. The problem comes in when there is no limit on the amount produced. Once production has far exceeded demand, it becomes a disposal problem to get rid of the excess. Since we are importing vast quantities of oil for fuel thirsty SUV's then it should be no problem to dispose of the excess oil from the crop into these vehicles. even if the customer if oblivious. Ie.. the diesel pumps are 10% biodiesel.. or 100% The idea is that it would potentially drop the price of a renewable fuel from say.. $2 dollars to $1.50.. enough to make even people who dont care be green even if they didnt want to Any renewable fuel displaces oil out of the ground. Also removes evil oil Companies from foreign countries. Paying somone to grow a different crop just sounds so wrong. I'm not sure I understand your statement. What i meant to say is that paying someone not to grow anything sounds so wrong. Sorry.. sometimes i misspeak what I mean to say. anyway.. then we could at least get more homegrown oil in the market. If the goal is to get more homegrown Oil on the market, it would make much more sense to me to grow a crop that produces more Oil than Corn! Canola comes instantly to mind. Right.. thats what i was trying to say earlier.. it didnt make it from my brain to my fingers I would rather pay farmers to grow something that is useful, than pay some large farming company to grow 'nothing' . I am sure donations are made to get the right contracts to grow 'nothing' Atleast if we took the oil that is produced from the said crops that the gov't paid $X for... that and converted it to biodiesel on the market.. that would atleast lower the price of biodiesel.. That is also the current situation. The government has paid an artificially high price for Corn and Soybeans. Now they are paying to dispose of it. I agree that producing an alternative form of fuel from it is better than putting it in a landfill, but a much better solution would be to not pay for the excess production to begin with, and let the Farmers grow Oil or Biomass crops for energy use instead. Yes, paying farmers to do nothing, to make the price of corn at a reasonable price, does nothing but shift the cost to the taxpayers. With gov't paying to 'grow oil' then the prices will be high enough from the increased demand. It might even make use of normally dry locations for Palm oil collection. Will these grow well in New Mexico, Arizona.,. other arid regions? not normally good for 'farming'..? Paying people, with taxpayer dollars, for *something* is a lesser evil than paying people, with taxpayer dollars, to do *nothing*. Not necessarily. It may be better to pay them to do nothing, than it is to pay them to do something, then have to pay someone else to dispose of whatever it was you paid the first group for doing. I wasnt trying to advocate paying people to do
RE: [biofuel] Public Money in the Pipeline
Message: 5 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:43:03 - From: malcolm.scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Public Money in the Pipeline snip The Baku pipeline is hardly an isolated example. Under the energy plan developed by Vice President Dick Cheney, the Bush administration is financing a growing number of overseas projects for private oil companies. In theory, the money provided by two U.S. agencies -- the Export-Import Bank (Ex-Im) and the Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC) -- is supposed to boost trade and create jobs. But in practice, say critics across the political spectrum, the agencies enrich a handful of well-connected oil companies. The majority of Ex-Im Bank funding benefits large, politically powerful corporations, says Rep. Ron Paul, a Republican from Texas. This is all sickening. I wonder what percentage of these loans are repaid. It isn't that I expected anything other than a corrupt view of US energy policy on the part of the Bush Administration, I just never expected it to be so blatant. E-M, C-T, et. al. have bought 6 out of the last 14 years of U.S. Presidencies and are basically dictating, in some respects U.S. foreign policy. Ron Paul used to be a Libertarian, the only one in Congress. I'm not saying that's great but that's sort of why he ends up being the Republican in-house critic. -US politicians know that Americans just love their cheap gasoline. Financing -pipelines for cheap foreign oil keeps it coming. I don't think an American -would vote for anyone who didn't do everything possible to maintain that -cheap oil flow. Politicians know that. --- Here is where I get confused on the 'oil conspiracy'. These companies are paying for contracts to build oil rigs and equipment and processing. Aren't they *paying* for the oil they take up? This is what I dont understand. All the oil conspiracies keep sounding like these companies are 'taking' the oil. Aren't they just drilling it. Paying X dollars for it, and processing it for X+1 dollars? I dont understand how guaranteeing loans is a bad thing, in that it allows more countries to play in the 'oil supply game'. More players means that individual countries have less leverage on the price of oil. This in and of itself may be worth the price of the loans to secure that the pipeline is built. help me out. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] OT the magic plane theory
I appreciate the proof statement. Its nice to hear that instead of it had to happen I will give you one back at you and say that I am not a demolitions expert either. I think the reasons for this is that the building did what they were supposed to do.. survive the impact of the plane. What the buildings couldnt do was be 'magic' and have the steel tolerate the intense heat from the fuel burning slowly. It heated the metal and made it weaker. Ever bend a coat hanger back and forth until it breaks? At first it is harder.. but then it gets easier and easier until it can no longer hold together.. now touch where it broke? Its hot. Same thing.. the metal got hotter and hotter until it couldnt hold the weight of the building above it. so then they both came where GRAVITY took them.. straight down. Notice there was not some explosion in each bulding right before it fell down like the old buildings being demolished If there was, then i could see where you are coming from. The buildings you see demolished are usually felled as the explosions happen. Also, when the planes crashed the explosions were at impact and out the other side due to velocity Now.. if it was to be a demolition then you would see all side of the building blow, either all at once, or in sequence. Then you would see it come down straightmaybe. If only one side, then it should tip over, correct? I suppose the only other thing to think of is why, if it is planned and explosives placed, did the second tower fall before the first? I dont know if it is safe to compare a regular 'old building' with the current skyscrapers. They are really totally different kinds of buildings. I have never seen a demolition of a skyscraper to compare. Also.. if the US did it.. I guess the gov't bungled the bomb back in the early 90's.. heh. Message: 7 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 23:03:54 -0600 From: csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Doing it once is already hardWas: doo doo About fabricating the WTC attacks ... I'm not gonna debate whether it was .. or not cause I have NO proof for what I'm about to say. I'm simply gonna comment that there is ONE strange thing that's always bothered me about the WTC incident. TWO separate planes driven by TWO sets of terrorists strike TWO entirely different buildings (towers). Yet EACH of these two physically separated incidences ... brought down BOTH building STRAIG HT DOWN. DEMOLITION PERFECT. Like those demolitions you see on the news sometime ... bringing down old buildings. Now remember ... those demolitions you see on the news they're done by explosives experts. The building is studied for weeks ... the charges precisely placed. CAREFULLY placed. DELIBERATELY placed. That's the kind of precision that (supposedly) it takes to make a building come straight down. To avoid damaging nearby buildings. So now a stolen aircraft hits a building at a random angle brings a building straight down?? And the a SECOND plane hits a SECOND building?? And ALSO brings it straight down?? The chances for a random (non deliberate charges placed just in certain places) plane hit making it fall straight down ... are already microscopic. Now a second (2nd tower) repeat performance?? The odd against THAT are UNBELIEVABLE!!! I'm NOT implying anything. But I WILL say that it sure makes my suspicious-o-meter needle shoot up. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 1311
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:10:18 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE:Ag subsidies Motie wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would think that instead of having agricultural subsidies, or paying people NOT to grow things on their land, that we should instead get subsidize them to grow biofuel on their land. I disagree with subsidies in general. I thoroughly disagree with paying subsidies for producing massive quantities of a product that can't be marketted. It's usually that way. The real problem of agriculture is surplus. It's very complex, but those involved apparently don't want to solve the problem but rather to maintain it, for their own ends. As you say Now THIS is the kind of conspiracy I can handle. Companies wanting to get paid to do nothing. Companies donating to political parties to continue to pay to get nothing. work? why would i want to get paid 4 dollars to do something, when i can get 2 dollars to do 'nothing' Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 1311
Message: 9 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:10:18 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE:Ag subsidies Same with corn (surplus corn is the cheapest thing for Americans to burn in their woodstoves - more than a billion bushels went unused in 2000), same with lots of things, and the same in all the industrialized countries. And then, too often, it gets dumped on 3rd World markets, putting their own farmers out of business and causing immense distortions all along the line, often ending up with starving people at the end of it - as in Southern Africa now, widely blamed on the drought, on people like Mugabe, and stuff like Zambia's refusing to accept GMO food aid, but it's not so. Why wouldn't the farmer just grow something else, instead of corn.? Why don't these countries just refuse to import the food? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE:Ag subsidies
I would think that instead of having agricultural subsidies, or paying people NOT to grow things on their land, that we should instead get subsidize them to crow biofuel on their land. Or agree to pay $X per amount of product., if you still want to keep the price of soybeans up. Paying somone to grow a different crop just sounds so wrong. anyway.. then we could atleast get more homegrown oil in the market. and how about automakers getting credits for a diesel that has all the plumbing to run on biodiesel AND SVO. Atleast if we took the oil that is produced from the said crops that the gov't paid $X for... that and converted it to biodiesel on the market.. that would atleast lower the price of biodiesel.. that has got to be better than paying to guard tankers safe travel to the US.. especially since that oil isn't going to local farmers..etc. Paying people, with taxpayer dollars, for *something* is a lesser evil than paying people, with taxpayer dollars, to do *nothing*. RE: Message: 14 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 01:59:59 - From: motie_d [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Ag subsidies I came across an interesting letter on another list. I thought I'd share a portion of it with everyone. It agrees with my position on government subsidies, not only for Ag, but for all Businesses. Motie Twenty years ago, New Zealand felt obliged, like every other developed nation, to pay handouts to its farmers. Its agricultural industry stagnated, as farmers focused their efforts not on producing marketable food but on securing the biggest subsidy cheque. Then, in the mid-1980s, subsidies were withdrawn. The effect has been dramatic. New Zealand farmers now make profits off their own bat, and do so in open competition with the rest of the world's farmers: the country is the only one in the developed world to have removed tariffs on imports of foreign foods. While subsidies make up 45 per cent of farm income in Europe and 22 per cent in America, only 1 per cent of agricultural spending in New Zealand is from the public purse - and that comes in the form of government-funded research, pest-control programmes and disaster relief. In promoting free trade in agriculture, New Zealand is still very much a one-man band. It shouldn't be. There is nothing unpatriotic about a `Buy New Zealand' campaign: our aim is merely to persuade our own government, too, to abolish agricultural subsidies. Readers with suggestions for good New Zealand nosh and where to buy it are warmly invited to get in touch. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 1308
Hmm yes, I guess so. I just dont see how the world would stand for something to be just taken like oil. I just dont believe it. If not for the only reason that the 'other' countries would be angry that they are not getting any of the 'free' oil. What i *will* accept and believe is that oil companies will jockey for contracts to build equipment to drill the oil.. and be able to buy the oil from that country. Perhaps BP would want to not get cut out of that action? as to the other goodies: I think there is a difference between calling a country defending itself from getting wailed upon.. and calling that acts of Terrorism against civilians. From what i hear, ALL the Palestinians are civilians.. including the bombers. The counts of Palestians goes up when a Palestinian can't even do it right and blows himself up when there is no one around. The count goes up when he kills one Israeli and 10 Palestinians on a bus. Some dingles come running at a guard post, weapon in hand.. and get killed.. cound goes up.. does this mean that Isreal has done everything right? of course not. Is it bad when Isreal tries to stop the people responsible for organizing these attacks.. and kill one of them.. and someone standing around gets killed? YES.. but atleast they are not TARGETing the people sitting around picking their nose and reading a book. Some people may not see any difference.. a person dead is a person dead. Oh well, I do. Its called intent. Its the same as dropping a bomb.,. you do your best to hit the military target. Sometimes, things happen.. since no one wants to stand up in a big line and do it the old fashioned way and hide near civilians.. that is what happens. As to whether they have some god given right.. I dont know. Last time i checked.. when you attack another country and LOSE.. then you might end up losing some land. thats what happens. No one MADE you attack, now did they. If Canada decided to attack the US from Quebec.. and they lost, then I would suspect that some of the land from whence the attacks came, may be taken over by the US. IF North Korea attacks South Korea and loses.. then i suspect that a chunk of North Korea may now be called South Korea.. thats what happens when you play war and lose. People fighting for France after the Germans ATTACKED them..hmmm familiar? could be called terrorists by the germans I suppose. If they would attack germans picking their noses reading a book, then i suppose they are. if it was today, and they did not attack as a unit of military.. then they can be considered Guerillas, and are not subject to Geneve conventiona can can just be killed. I still fail to see the comparison.. Germany attacked France. France was not declaring that they were going to wipe the Germans off the planet.. Israel did not just attack Egypt to try to expand its borders. Isreal was attacked FROM THIS LAND.. they lost. That said.. i wish both sides would just get everyone to stop doing stuff. I kind of like the wall between them except for its divisionist statment.. Both sides need to know that they can't possibly both get everything they want.. The Palestinians say they want the land. The isrealis have offered to give it up.. but they want some kind of assurance that the crap that happened before wont happen again. its easy.. but still a toughie. There are hardliners in Israel saying.. never give it up.. and Hardliners in Palestine saying no land is good until all the israeli land is theirs.. RE: Message: 15 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:48:52 +0100 From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Digest Number 1306 David, You are probably less worried about American oil companies getting in on the Iraqi oil than the CEO of British Petroleum BP. He insisted that BP should get their fair share after the war. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,84,00.html I do not think that it was Saddam Hussein he listened to. I wondered why he was so worried that BP would not get their slice of it. I am however quite sure that Blair got the assurances necessary, if he participated of course. You are talking like the Israeli have some god given right to continue to occupy Palestine and planning to keep a part of it forever. This despite numerous UN resolutions since 1967, that Israel choose to ignore. I wonder if you would have agreed with the Germans also, during WWII and called the French, Yugoslav, Dane, Dutch, Belgian, Norwegian, Russian etc. terrorists. The Germans used quite similar methods in fighting the European terrorists during WWII. We all have a lot to thank those terrorists for and we call them heroes and resistance fighters now. I cannot support the Israeli violence and occupation policies and I cannot support the Palestine violence either. I really hope that Sharon looses now, after the money scandal. Maybe we can see some progress if that happens. The best for all parties and the world would be peace and respect for
RE: [biofuel] big fat tax write off
Hmm I was not aware of any specific cars where you get extra money other than if its hybrid, EV etc Unfortunately, I did not see any reference to this 'list' The only reason i can see being that some large SUVs being sold would help specific companies maintain business. Heh,, perhaps there would have been some nice polititcal contributions made from some of the companies that supply parts for these specific vehicles. Perhaps if this is the case, it would be modified that the SUVs had to have a fuel effiecient model relative to the standard and that if you got this one.. then you would still get a credit. The parts suppliers would still be in business.. everythings good. However, it would not necessarily be good to see someone give up their 25 mpg Honda CRV for a 20 MPG Expedition. don't know the cars on your 'list' Do you have a link to these bills? I would like to check it out. I apologize if I spoke about a subject that was not being discussed. RE: Message: 16 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 04:16:29 +0100 From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Digest Number 1306 David, We are here talking about a one time write off the year you buy it. This is a very large difference than normal write off. This also give excellent opportunities for tax planning. If you followed the list discussion on this issue, you would also have seen the specific list of cars that qualify for this one time write off. Search in the archives if you want it. I am not the right person to try this argument on, try with someone that do not have my business experiences. I know exactly why, when and how this is a very large advantage. This is often done to stimulate businesses and get the economy going, but SUVs, give me a break. I find cars very useful and do not want to without one. I like and love my wife, I like and love my son, I like and love our friends, I like and love our dog foxy. To like and love my car is maybe too far if you are an adult. Children often like and love their toys, but that is another thing. If I would go off road, I would prefer to do that in a SUV. I have earlier said that I understand those who exclusively have a SUV to go off road with, even for pleasure. Those who go off road, now what I am talking about when I talk about the unsuitability to have not trained and experienced people drive SUV exclusively on road. Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] doo doo
Nice verbage, but it really says nothing other than 'I'm right.. you're not'.. and takes a long time to do it. So tell me, whom are we bombing to rape their resources? Afghanistan? I suppose that is a flimsy excuse we facricated the WTC attacks so that we can waste our time and spend money there for nothing. If we were fabricating it.. it would have made more sense to fabricate it so that Saddam did it. If we were going to rip off all their oil.. why didnt we do it 12 years ago? I'm pretty open.. but you can't just spout out assertions and then say that any defense is bipolar and wrong just because you don't like it. Was the Gulf war about oil? Absolutely. There are plenty of other instances where another country was getting attacked and nothing was done. But we cant go around fixing everyone elses problems. People dont want to be told that junior is dead because of some reason that doesnt even affect our country. Not that they *want* to be told that junior is dead , 'but it sure was patriotic' So Jimmy Boy Saddam gets through buttscrewing a country.. and has his tanks lined up against another.. h So I guess if you just HATE OIL.. then you might say.. let him have it.. But if you dont need some guy controlling half of the worlds oil.. then i guess something must be done. That said.. im hoping that all the troops are there and at the last minute, Saddam says, for the good of the people of the country.. I'm out.. I have heard reports tonight that alot of military brass has made plans to go to toher countries.. I would also hope that if that happened.. they could get rebiult and vote for whomever they want..etc. and that the reason we would have to have troops in Saudi would go away.. then the fanatics could just have to think up something else to be mad about. Crabb, David wrote: Well, on the other hand, who the hell cares what he wrote - some of the world's foremost historians are Americans, but Mr Crabb sure isn't among them. Just another one, overdefensive as ever, the same old usual boring dysfunctional bipolar thinking, devoid of understanding how life and the world work, simplistic in the extreme, and based on demonising the opposition - I guess it all helps if you're trying to fabricate flimsy excuses for bombing people so you can rip off their resources, but don't expect anyone else in the world to swallow it because they don't, and neither do a very large and rapidly growing number of Americans. Bluster on, Mr Crabb, as you no doubt will. I'm rather tired of offering reasoned responses on these issues to people whose only idea of reason is what agrees with them. Go trawl about in the archives if you want to find previous such, but of course you won't, because you don't. Perhaps your compatriates will get more sympathy when instead of bombing My what? Ah, never mind... Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] diesel gen
Hello., I would like to stop pumping petroleum into one of my cars. I am looking forward to trying to convert a crx to run on hybrid powertrain. I would like to run a diesel generator, inline with a clutch, then a dual shaft electric motor, then into the transmission. Are there any companies product range that would include generators that run in the same direction as the Honda motors? Naturally, I would like to run biodiesel, then SVO, as i have plenty of available wattage to heat the inital small tank of oil. thanks Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 1306
I can mostly agree with this, MM, but I have absolutely NO sympathy for your ideas on where we are getting our fuel and at what price. The huge price is to the people of the Middle East, and the world, and there's worse to come, from the same culprits - led, first and foremost, by the US and its oil corporations, which have been twisting that whole region out of shape for generations in order to screw cheap oil out of it. Self-inflicted injury, that's all, and VERY minor by comparison - not (yet) severe enough to force the beneficiaries (wilfully blind American consumer energy wastrels) to look the facts in the face at last. crist, someone has been listening to saddam too much. If the US wanted to get Iraqi oil, then why wouldnt they just have overtaken all those wells the last time the iraqi put their hands up after 100 hours of ground fighting? They aren't out to steal oil, or they also would have just overtaken Saudi when they had half a million troops there. Meanwhile Israel hies itself off to the good old US in search of yet another $12 billion in aid, mostly weaponry, much of it no doubt to be used in terrorist acts against unarmed civilians, business as usual. That just doesn't figure in this cosy little where we get our oil from anti-OPEC equation, now does it? Israelis themselves are increasingly opposed to this, vehemently so, but you take no notice - they're wrong, that's that. Or, easier, simply fail to notice it. more dikness. Terrorism is acts against civilians for the political cause. It isnt just defined as violence that 'happens' to be against what you personally would like to see. How about i come into your yard and start beating your dog, and when you try to stop me, i sue you for violence against me.. terrorist! If you will notice, there are no Isrealis blowing up cafeterias.. i wonder why not? lots of civilians there! Perhaps your compatriates will get more sympathy when instead of bombing discos, cafes etc, they tried bombing military targets etc. People seem to care less if you attack military targets instead of people picking their nose and reading a book. You may not like the 'aid'.. but given that they are the only democracy in the region, and people around them outnumber them 70-1..and continually pose threats.. they probably need some help. I wonder what the palestinians do with all the aid the US gives them. .. the most of any country.. including their rich buddies over there. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 1306
You get to deduct if you use if for business purposes.. etc.. just like you could if you purchased a $50,000 electric car, or biodiesel burning car.. or whatever. Saying that it is a tax rebate for SUV purchases is tantamount to telling a lie. Just because you might not like SUVs is no excuse. That is misleading because by making the statement like that, it seems they have to buy an SUV to get that rebate. -re: US government has a $35,000 tax rebate on SUVs, which to me looks completely insane and contra dictionary to any oil independence policy, - How can US consolidate such a tax rebate, with the talk about oil dependency? - How can you claim that SUV is the American peoples choice, knowing that it is a tax rebate that in some cases cover around 75% of the price of a SUV? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 1306
If somebody, like me for example, would claim that this looks like a hidden subsidy to the American car industry and as such is against WTO rules. This based on availability and possible planning advantages in favor of the US domestic industry. What would be your answer? I would say you are not looking very hard. If somone buys an IMPORTED S.U.V., they get the same tax break. How exactly does this favor the US industry. While we are at it.. explain how the TAX BREAKS FOR Electric Vehicles and Hybrids help the domestic auto industry, given that there are no domestic Hybrids on the market? Doh! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel]
since diesels dont have emmissions tests... can a take say ... a suzuki sidekick.. and put a diesel in it? ignore the issues of tranplanting it just a matter of are you allowed to do that? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 482
I'm a 71 year old disabled veteran and I'm homeless. I served my country well and now I do not have enough income to rent an apartment. I only get $700 per month for old age social security and I get $100 per month for fighting in the Vietnam War. That is not enough money to feed myself every day. - Freeman Davis, 71 Year Old Oakland Resident odd... my grandfather pulls in 2,000 a month for his service to his country. dont know about his social security. he worked for 30 years.. so I imagine it is ok. Its supposed to be a help..so you are supposed to save, not to provide all your income. I think it is based, somewhat losely, on the amount you put in, with a relatively nice floor if you never really worked too much. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] digest
digest Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz]
how do i set this up for digest? Biofuels at Journey to Foreverhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlBiofuel at WebConXhttp://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htmTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 472
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 01:34:52 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: More on Jerusalem artichokes Hi Harry Thanks for those references Keith, they will be very useful. You're most welcome, I'm glad you can use them. produce enough food to go around. Until I observe a change in the way wealth, and food, are distributed I must insist that we do all we can to increase the total production of food and services to humans. When so many pardon my logic... but if there currently is enough food around.. and the hungry only go hungry because of distribution issues... then what good is increasing production of food . This is like some pilot is running around in the atlantic.. low on fuel, not enough to get to base and somone radioing in.. ok.. we just got another shipment of fuel here.. in fact, its more than we know what to do with... so when you land.. fill right on up. increasing production will just cause prices of food to drop, and farmers to go poor. It won't help the distribution channels at all. unless they run on biodeisel..ba da bing! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: fuel line magnets = poo poo
- Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: magnets in fuel line. extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence. notice how they get all upset when you ask them to prove it. especially when it's not evidence that they themselves have seen, but are parroting from someone else. so and so told me, or I saw a video doesn't cut it. show me peer reviewed science that proves the claims, explains the science, or shut up about this crap. It's heartening to see that some folks can still think logically, and not get caught up in the religious fervor. This is such a stupid topic. All I hear are.. put the magnets here or there.. you have to adjust them. so naturally, if there is no effect, it wasnt done correctly Why wouldnt an automaker, pick one Ford, GM, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Kia, VW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc.. have done any tests to see if they can just make a magnetic fuel line.. or strategically placed magnets and BAMMO!.. get 25% more HP or less Emmissions.. or both..whatever.. Instantly they would have the jump on the competition X company's. 1.5 litre makes 100 HP.. Our 1.5 makes 125 HP ! Our motors are better! ! ! look at all the money they would make... !! You dont think they have tested this poo poo ? And I grow tired of hearing the well.. inventions have to come from somewhere dont they? argument. OK.. sure.. but this magnet stuff had been around a long time..If the poop worked.. Car companies would include them in their cars! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 465
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:13:35 -0400 From: Greg Yohn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: list We're stuck with them! -Original Message- From: Harmon Seaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 8:10 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] list Excuse me, I just joined the list, and I've looked all over the yahoo/groups stuff trying to figure out how to turn off the banner ads I'm getting with the mail from this list. It says attachments are disabled for the list - as they should be -- but I'm getting the html ads anyway. Anybody know how to kill them? I dont know about you .,.. but mine says.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] So i assume those are the advertisements you get? are you getting the digest? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE:ethanol to crack SVO
Hello, Can you use ethanol, instead of methanal, to crack the oil to make biodiesel? any web link to the process would be helpful too.. thank you in advance. DC Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 459
Im not saying there is hole.. not saying there isnt.. not saying global warming exists..not saying it doesnt. All I know is that in the late 70s.. they were talking about us going into an ice age.. studies and readings said so... because they thought the pollution in the atmosphere was reflecting the suns energy.. So now the bandwagon is that it is warming.. what happened to the evidence of cooling in the 70s? My personal is that the earth heats and cools in cycles.. hotter and cooler.. and each cycle is on a larger cycle.. so it is hard to tell. Dumping a bunch of crap into the Atmosphere cant be good though. as to 1968.. i thought they first discovered the hole in the early 80s ?? Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:43:24 -0600 From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union We are told the ozone hole is due to atmospheric chlorine, not energy consumption. Man's contribution to the atmospheric chlorine is 1/2 of 1%. (1/200th) Its like saying a robin flying in front of a tornado is the reason you lost your roof. The largest measured ozone hole was in 1968 which is inconsistent with man made causes. The next biggest hole was after the eruption of Pinatubo. Stratospheric chlorine is enormously affected by volcanic eruption. Man's contribution is miniscule in comparison. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 453
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:51:17 - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money Added to the water supply to dairy cattle, that and O2 added to the water increases milk production 5-10%. How much did the milk production go up by just adding o2 to the water? If you dont do them separately then you can't draw conclusions. otherwise you could just add 02 to the water..and say that Milking in May increases milk production.assuming that the 02 actually does increase it or.. assuming you had a female trainee do the milking..come to the conclusion that the cow is a lesbian becasue she puts out more milk when women pull on their teets.. etc etc etc I will acnowledge that I am predisposed to think the magnets are bunk... especially when i hear programs on the radio saying that 48 people noticed superior sleep with our mattress magnets.. while only 2 who had placebo matresses noticed a minor increase is sleep. what is make it sound like is that the Mattress works.. but since you are not comparing the people who noticed superior sleep and had magnetic matress with number of people who reported superior sleep with placebo matresses... the statement is bunk. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] What about making engine oil?
Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:32:14 +0100 From: Biofuels [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: What about making engine oil? CASTROL R http://www.castrol.com/products/cars_castrolr.html makes you wonder whether this company got its name from Castoroil...- Castroil... Castrol Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: magnets in fuel line.
theory as to why magnets work: long hydrocarbon chains are being broken down to shorter chains umm.. correct me if I am wrong, but isnt the fuel's high octane specifically *because* the chains are longer? hence they will not burn so quickly? now if the magnet is breaking this down.. wouldn't that be poopifying your grade of gas that you put in your tank? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Subject: Coconut oil
Gerry wrote: Mature coconuts would be required as they have thicker kernel with have more oil after they have been sun dried. Are you quite sure that mature nuts have more oil? The meat is harder in those I've seen, and it may be a little thicker, but the only difference in the rest of the nut is that the water (liquid endosperm) has been absorbed into the meat. The water contains no oil, so I wonder whether the meat of a mature coconut contains more. Anyway, I can't find anything definite either way in the little literature that I have. I think the best way to find out is to have somone suck the juice out of your nuts. i'm sorry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 445
anyone know about how much $ you can get per 100 gal out of the glycerin you get from of the biodiesel process ? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] By-pass Filters vs Factory Full Flow Filters
By-pass Filters vs Factory Full Flow Filters I think that Fram has a Super whammy guard filter out that has some sort of by-pass filtering? its like 10 bux Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 438
Diesels are a different matter. Their stoich. ratio varies from 14 to 1 up to 78 to one. Just about any combustible fuel will run a comression ignition engine. That's about it in a nutshell. Helpful? Joe Can you run gasoline in a diesel? I thought it would ignite before the desired point in the compression stroke? or is the air compressed... then the diesel added... and the diesel explodes witht he pressure? odd.. since the pressure in the pump must be greater then the pressure in the chamber.. or it wont come out.. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 416
speaking of oil drilling... why cant we just drill oil in the persian gulf.. it is international waters... Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 404
Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 03:37:35 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: From the UK: Volvo/Chalmers/Study Misrepresented Hello Ed This link explains some of it. The scientist's work was fine, but was not done in an engine, so the emissions results are not the same as from a diesel engine. The trouble is that he insists they are the same. Wait a minute.. if he had air sniffing equipment to do the frying pan test Why didnt he just run one engine on diesel... vs One engine on Rapeseed oil... and THEN sniff the air and report the differences.?? h? ITs not like we are dealing with what are the effects of aspartame over a lifetime where we would have to make guesses. IMHO .. burning it in a pan.. is like injecting 5 oz of aspartame into a rats brain and then saying.. brain had problems, therefore aspartame causes cancer We have a diesel engine.. we have rapeseed oil... run the engine.. get the results.. This is accurate. Nobody gets to work by burning oil in a pan.! ! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 332
Baby Bush needs to have his ass blistered to a fare-thee-well by someone for his deceit. A resignation would be a fitting response, preferably by him, rather than subjecting the masses to a public ass whippin'. Maybe you could wait more than 2 months before you demand a resignation, which is more fitting for thievery or lying under oath or other felonious activity. Perhaps he doesn't want to draft new regulations that would say.. limit power output in California.. an already hotptotato of activity. You can chose to believe or disbelieve that drilling will only occur in the summer.. or that they can do the drilling without mass pollution.. or that they will even limit the drilling to the small areas planned. But pessimism on ones part does not equate to lying on anothers... or even missed campaign promises.. there are still plenty of other greenhouse gasses to limit for one... and two... nothing was said about not allowing the restrictions in the future.. just not right this second.. as there are other citizens pressing needs... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-~ Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/FZTVlB/TM -_- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: [greenwashing]
What is greenwashing ? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-~ Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/FZTVlB/TM -_- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
