Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
D. Mindock wrote: > Dingel says he wants the money from his inventions to go directly > to the people of the Phillipines. Getting money from "investors" for a product that won't work as claimed, and selling that worthless product to gullible people is a scam, no matter where the funds end up going. I know it sounds noble, but there is NO possibility of water functioning as a fuel. Water is an ash. Hydrogen is an energy carrier for electrical power. It takes a well known amount of energy to electrolyze water into hydrogen and oxygen, but even at better than 100% current efficiency (electrolysis below thermoneutral voltage CAN be endothermic), the energy to split the water molecule HAS to come from somewhere. So this guy claims that an internal combustion engine, which is widely known to discard most of its fuel's energy as WASTE heat, can produce enough power to run itself AND electrolyze water. The maths don't work. While I have no doubt that an engine can run on hydrogen, the evidence of people doing so often falls short on examination. What Mr. Dingle is proposing runs against a vast, verified body of knowledge that has accumulated since the first electrolysis experiments back in the 1800's. I don't believe him, and I think you ought not believe him either. But if you want to take his word on faith, that's your concern. The rest of us should hang onto our wallets. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
miki de mla wrote: > I guess we just have to see the gadget to believe his claims... Be skeptical. Eyes can be deceived. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
D. Mindock wrote: > Here is a Philippine inventor who first started running cars on only > water almost 30 years ago. He has 100 engines he has converted that > will run on just tap or sea water. Uh huh . . . > Needless to say all the car > companies have tried to steal his technology so he is going to share > it with anybody and everybody in a partnership with profits going to > the Philippine people, but not the government. A little hocus pocus electrolysis is WORTH stealing? I did electrolysis in 8th grade! >Watch this video at: > > > http://www.mysticfamilycircus.com/Pages/Community/Projects/h2oh29MB.mov Been there. Seen that grainy video. Please forgive me for yawning. > > 1 liter of water will run the car for an hour. Very efficient electrolysis > is used to get the hydrogen > from the water while the car's in operation. Peace, D. Mindock Even IF the electrolysis were 100% efficient, it takes 31.6 kWh of electrical power to evolve a kilogram of hydrogen, which has roughly the same energy as a US gallon of gasoline. He claims he does this from batteries and the car's alternator. (It would be far more efficient to use the batteries to power an electric motor directly!) Give me an hour with one of his machines and I'll figure out where the hydrogen is REALLY coming from! Having written this, with gasoline in my area consistently running above $1.10 per liter, it's now officially CHEAPER for me to electrolyze hydrogen from water, using grid power, and burn it in my vehicle, than to power the same vehicle on gasoline. Go figure! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran
Fritz Friesinger wrote: > Poll: Strong U.S. Support for Bombing Iran I think this illustrates how effective the propaganda machine in the US has become. To a certain extent, insulation from the consequences of our bellicose attitude contributes to the problem. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Key House Panel Defeats Net Neutrality
Michael Redler wrote: > You can get anything you want at Addison's resturant (at JTF)! > > :-) Excepting Alice . . . robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Soupy TDI was economist
Todd Hershberger wrote: > Mike, > > I would stick with the standard air filter. The oily K&N might kill > your expensive MAF sensor. They are prone to failing anyway on these > VWs. The air flow problems are upstream when the snow screen snorkel > gets plugged with sand, dirt and bugs. You might need to clean it. > That's all for the free advice today. TDI engines have a mass air meter? Really? The MAF unit on my truck hasn't suffered any damage from the K & N filter I've had installed for the past four years, but then, I pull the electronics and swab the wire with rubbing alcohol whenever I do a tune up. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] FWD: Nazis coming to Danbury [was] BYU professor's group...
Mike Weaver wrote: > There is an old old ranch house in the extended family with a Swastika > on one of the walls - it way predates Hitler and I was told it came from > a Native American artist. > The light posts in my home town are adorned in swastikas to this day. I had to take a photo in order to prove it, because people up here thought it wasn't true! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Thoughts on the Bush Admninistation
in this forum for a very long time.
>
> I don't agree with this administration on everything; in fact, I disagree
> with it a lot. However, I don't let my personal feelings take me on wild
> flights of fancy like "the governement is completely evil" or "the
> government is trying to kill me". It is in those statements that logic is
> absent.
>
How about "Fundamentalist Islam hates America, period." Where's the
logic in that? "Swift action had to be taken to send a message to
terrorists who would hate America even if Mickey Mouse was president."
Really? Do you really want to discuss this, or are you too blinded
by jingoism to see another point of view?
robert luis rabello
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Re: [Biofuel] Nettle Juice
mark manchester wrote:
(Nettle stir fry)
> Brilliant. I just tried 'em in the garlic version, adding chiles and lemon
> zest. Yipers!. Thanks for this great tip!
Your version sounds yummy, too! We'll have to try that one.
> Also, I'm deeply jealous of your garden, thanks for all the news there.
Some of the local young people have apparently found our raised beds
and garden area the perfect place to play. I'm a little dismayed at
their lack of judgment right now, but I'd rather have kids playing in
my yard than throwing things at my house! Tomorrow it will be a
morning of lawn aerating, followed by a few hours of weeding and
compost management.
I hate lawn.
robert luis rabello
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Re: [Biofuel] Nettle Juice
MALCOLM MACLURE wrote: > The juice from rhubarb leaves, boiled up & strained, is supposed to make a > good natural insecticide too, just don't use the boiling pan for food again! I have a pot that I've used for experimenting with newspaper that will probably work well. We have rhubarb in our garden. > Nettles contain methanoic acid (formic acid)- that's the irritant / > insecticide. But rhubarb leaves contain mainly oxalic acid & malic acid. > Oxalic acid is quite toxic! > > As far as the wasps go, I think there is plenty more around for them to > find. My sweetheart dumped the nettle tea on her outdoor plants while I was working with students this afternoon. I'll have to wait for the next batch to try it on the aphids. (They haven't shown up yet, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time.) > robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nettle Juice
Hakan Falk wrote: > Young light green spring nettle has not developed any tissue > irritating compounds Well, my sweetheart got pricked by one of those young plants this morning! She wanted to go wading through a whole patch of the stuff and would have, had I not warned her against it. (And she's the one who grew up in BC!) > In the past it was > very common spring delicatessen in Sweden. Today you get it only if > you pick and > cook yourself or at the few best and exclusive restaurants. I really like the flavor. What's nice, is that it tastes better cooked than spinach, which I prefer raw. I wouldn't want to eat raw nettles, though! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nettle Juice
Paul S Cantrell wrote: > It's full of nutrients and that would make any plant happy. > > quoted from: > http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/Organics/CompostMulch/CompostTea/OtherTeas.htm > " Herbal Tea > > These include plant-based extracts from plants such as stinging > nettle, horse tail, comfrey, and clover. A common method is to stuff a > barrel about three-quarters full of fresh green plant material, then > top off the barrel with tepid water. The tea is allowed to ferment at > ambient temperatures for 3 to 10 days. The finished product is > strained, then diluted in proportions of 1:10 or 1:5 and used as a > foliar spray or soil drench. Herbal teas provide a supply of soluble > nutrients as well as bioactive plant compounds." Wow! So it's powerful stuff, then, and I shouldn't waste it down the drain. Thanks for the info! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] You were saying?
Hakan Falk wrote: > US missed an opportunity in the last election, but Bush cannot stay > after his period, if he does not also try to pull AH's last trick. I > doubt that this can be done in US, nothing is really left other than > the hope that next election will be more kind to the world. Are you kidding? We could have Jeb, then Neil, then Marvin, and after them, Jenna and Barbara. We could have a Bush family dynasty for better than 50 years over here! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nettle Juice
bob allen wrote: > Robert, > nettles contain histamine-like compounds which cause serious irritation > to tissues of higher animals. I wonder if your steep would be useful as > an insect antifeedant on garden plants? That's an interesting possibility. I wonder what a foliar spray of nettle juice would do to the aphids that have infested my trees in years past . . . (Ah, but then what would happen to the predatory wasps?) > BTW, I like milkweed buds similarly prepared- they're a little like > brussel sprouts. Really? I haven't seen any milkweed around here, but I think your Gulf Coast climate is warmer than the one I live in. Thanks for the advice! I'm going to give it a try! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nettle Juice
Mike Weaver wrote: > Fiddlehead ferns and cat tails... Those grow around here too! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nettle Juice
mark manchester wrote:
> Quickly replying! I love nettle tea, I grow nettles just so I can have
> fresh tea, and it's so good for you, iron and D and all that. Or try making
> Pho with it, if you ever tire of beef or shrimp pho. The chile sauce, "fish
> socks" (sauce of course, but it has a certain smelll), lime chunks, etc.
> that goes with traditional pho soup... this is a great application.
I don't eat anything that had brown eyes and a mom, so no beef for
me! Also, I stay away from bottom feeders. I've never tried pho
before--it's a kind of Vietnamese noodle soup, is it not?
> I'm feeling sensitive because I just made my first batch of tea yesterday
> and have been basking in springtime.
Ok, I'll take your word that it's healthy (it certainly LOOKS
healthy), but the water is FULL of bugs. I suppose I could strain
them out, but I can't STAND the flavor of the tea.
> But Robert, ohmygawd, it never OCCURRED to me to eat the nettles! Thanks!
> Just a light flip-fry, I suppose, maybe garlic. Just like rapini?
My sweetheart did a butter / olive oil / garlic stir fry in a really
hot pan for lunch. It was delicious! One of the nice things about
nettles is that they suppress appetite, so I'm feeling nice and
content right now.
We're trying to cut out sweets and exercise more regularly. Diabetes
runs in both our families, so we need to be careful that our body
masses don't creep up with age, and we'd would like our boys to grow
up eating more sensibly than is the case for most of the population in
our area. Nettles grow wild around here, and they're VERY abundant
among the shaded, north-facing slopes rising above our subdivision.
We can only harvest them for a short time while they're tender, so NOW
is the time for us to cut nettles. A friend, who goes on a walk every
day, takes a bag with her and fills one up every day. In a two or
three week period of time, she collects enough to freeze for the year
and enjoys eating nettles in every season.
I still can't bring myself to do a horsetail stir fry . . . We hae
PLENTY of that around here too!
robert luis rabello
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[Biofuel] Nettle Juice
Hello everyone! We've been intending to harvest wild stinging nettles for awhile now, but it's been rainy for the last week and we haven't gone for a walk uphill where the nettles grow. This morning, however, my sweetheart and I managed to find some time. We collected a grocery bag full of nettle tips (we only harvest the tender parts at the end of the plant stems, just before the flowers come out), which is roughly enough for one family sized serving. After blanching, nettles are tender and absolutely delicious! I like the flavor better than spinach, which I prefer raw, and any recipe that calls for spinach basically tastes better with nettles. However, every time my sweetheart blanches the nettles, we're left with a very dark green tea. I'd hate to throw this down the drain, but I don't REALLY want to drink it, either. (It tastes disgusting, and even my cats won't touch it!) Am I better to water my plants with this, or should I just put it on my compost pile. Any advice? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New American Bumper stickers - Oh boy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The Pres ended up dying in a > plane crash and the VP immigrated to Mexico, the only place in > North America warm enough to live in. And the biggest fantasy in the whole film involved how the Mexican people and government welcomed all of the American immigration with open arms in our moment of need . . . We've been so good to them over the past hundred and fifty years that they decided to return the favor! It would have been funny had it not been such an obvious example of how so many Americans believe we are perceived as benevolent in the rest of the world. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More Gardening News
Jason & Katie wrote: > hello robert, > > i am from the midwest of america. If you'd said "Iowa", I'd have enough of an idea! When I think of Iowa, I think of corn, soybeans and hogs. The coastal regions of the Pacific Northwest are characterized by heavy rainfall for most of the year, low solar insolation and poorly drained soils. We get mild winters up here--only two cold snaps this season, for instance--and hot summers where we can go four to six weeks without a drop of rain. Maize, strawberries, carrots, broccoli and specialty flowers grow VERY well in the valley bottoms. But I live on a hillside that used to be a dairy farm. There were orchards up here at one time also. I've never seen any commercial melon crops in this area. My saintly mother-in-law says that melons don't do well around here, but she doesn't know exactly WHY this is so. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More Gardening News
Gary L. Green wrote: > Huh? Us Americans? Who dat? Ok Gary. For ME, as an American, some of the discussion gets a little hard to hear. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More Gardening News
Jason & Katie wrote: > Do you have any sand? No. I have lots of clay beneath the topsoil I've built up, but no sand. > melons need a relatively damp loose sandy soil. have > you ever heard of muskmelons? they are a variant of canteloupe that is grown > in a town about 8 mi from where i grew up called Muscatine, and they get > volunteers out of some of the most uninhabitable gritty mess. i dont know > the exact concentrations but sand is apparently a very powerful factor. > watermelons and honeydew are also grown there fairly handily. Where are you from? I might try again, now that I have better soil. My experiment with melons occurred the first year I tried to grow a garden here. Our soil was really lousy and they never got much beyond sproutlings. Canteloupe is my favorite fruit. I'd love to grow some! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More Gardening News
> I started working on these problems 23 years ago and never stopped, > but it's only now that I'm able to pick up all the pieces again at > the same time instead of just this bit or that bit of it. I've no > doubt it works, but working it out in detail is another matter. We > hope to have useful results by the autumn. Has it been a linear process, or have you meandered around a bit? > I think it's the missing bit of Journey to Forever, it'll help to tie > a lot of other things together. We have to deal with city farmers on > one hand, gardeners basically, often with very little or no land, and > on the other hand with farmers, who go about things in a quite > different way, and there's not very much common ground between the > two. Or rather there's a no-man's-land, at the peripheries of the > cities and towns where rising land values break up the farms into > small parcels awaiting development, where you find people like > smallholders and homesteaders, or folks with 600 sq meters of land > like us, or 300 sq yards of back garden like you Robert. You've got a good point there. > Nobody pays any attention to these people but they grow a large > amount of food, maybe as much as the city farmers do (15%+ of the > world's supply). Gardening techniques don't always suit them very > well and neither do farming techniques. For instance, try to find > some half-useful information on how to grow wheat in a 20-metre > raised bed. You can't even find a sowing rate that isn't geared to > large fields and big machines, there's nothing that takes account of > the extra care you can take with small areas. We're hoping to change > that. That is one area I'd like to explore, personally. I'd also like to find a piece of land that has more area that is flat and level. Working a slope complicates everything! > > About the best the small-scale folks can do is to follow the > traditional Chinese-style farming methods of the East. It's basically > gardening more than farming, they tend to each individual plant, > there's no mass-production, production rates are very high and it's > sustainable. It's one weakness perhaps is in gearing animals to the > land. That's what we're doing here, integrated Chinese-style > small-scale farming using organic methods and livestock grazing > systems. It fits very well with our work with biofuels and energy, a > model for sustainable food and fuel farms of the future. And for those of us without access to obvious animals, like chickens, ducks, pigs and larger bovines, perhaps contained fish can be integrated into the process. I have this link: http://www.webofcreation.org/BuildingGrounds/aqua/TOC.html This looks like a viable solution for people like me. > > Hey, I actually got a gardening report done! :-) It was an enjoyable read, too! Thanks! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More Gardening News
Evergreen Solutions wrote: > Congratulations on getting planted! Thanks! We're just getting started. Planting around here depends so much on the weather that we normally don't get everything "in" until late May, when there is no danger of frost. > I don't have the yard for dirt gardening, so I've been slowly moving > over to hydroponics, it's really very interesting and quite cheap, I > recommend it to anyone. I really like the idea of hydroponics integrated with raising fish. > Just wondering, is your compost all the way broken down? Pretty well. The compost that comes out of my bin looks like dirt and is crawling with worms. We found one today that was so big it looked like a small snake! My compost is really too wet--I haven't been able to solve that problem yet--but the worms do a fabulous job. The only thing that isn't completely broken down is the straw we use in our bunny cage. > What is "crusher dust"? It's the fine residue left over from making gravel. The garden supply centers around here sell "glacier till" for about $15 per kilogram in nice little packages with pretty labels. I fill the back of my pickup for $5 at the local gravel pit and laugh all the way uphill! > If your "barn litter" is mostly dung and sawdust like > it is around here, watch out for the leech from the sawdust, it can > wreak havok on roots. Just a warning. Good advice! I get the old stuff that's been laying around for several months, and generally don't plant anything in it until it's been sitting on the ground for about another month and subsequently tilled into the soil. We put our potatoes in the section of the garden reserved for kitchen compost. I won't plant the corn, beans and squash in the area where we've put our barn litter until May. > Keep us (me) advised on your progress. I shall. It beats talking about politics and corruption any day of the week! > I'm working on a large > community garden w/ a local community center this summer, getting kids > in the dirt and making some food in the process. That's great, and I applaud you! We should ALL do as much of this kind of thing that we can. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] More Gardening News
Ok, it's not exactly earth shattering, but it's my version of a subversive activity . . . I brought in five truck loads of barn litter, spread it all out in my main garden area along with the compost I've been working on over the winter. Yesterday, my sweetheart and I rented a rototiller so that I could perform the much dreaded task of final soil preparation. It turned out that, for the FIRST time, the rototiller had little to no trouble breaking through our soil. We've managed to remove the big rocks, and three years of composting has turned the grey muck we started with into dark brown soil that is better than 50 cm thick! Not only was the rototilling fairly easy this time, I spent about an hour and a half going over the garden (twice) where I'd spent half the day doing the same thing the first time I tried it. The ground has this wonderful aroma, too. I'm finding that the soil has a far better balance of clay, sand and organic matter than was the case even last year, and there is very little horsetail growing on the garden side of our property this season. (The other side, where my xeriscape plants are located is another matter entirely!) This change has occurred with compost (most of which has been composted barn litter from a nearby auction house) and "crusher dust" alone. It's pretty amazing! We put our potatoes in this morning. (I grew up eating brown rice and don't really care for potatoes, but I don't think growing rice is something done in a suburban back yard anyway . . .) My youngest son has a row of peas in one of our raised beds. We're going to "stagger plant" this year so that we don't have an overwhelming task of harvesting, and I will insist we plant fewer purple beans than we did last season. It's great to work outside after the long, grey winter. I'm feeling a little bit sore, but it's not debilitating, and I keep wondering why people pay to exercise in a gym when I get a workout for free, and good food to boot! We've had more blasting along the ridge lines. There are fewer trees on the hillside now. A whole series of new homes is going up, and as we walk by them, we notice that their yards consist of the same grey muck that we started with. The developers put in sterilized "substrate medium" then install "insta-lawn", which requires a whole host of chemical additives in order to sustain plant growth. There are more roads, more cars, there is more noise and absolutely NO sense of community around here. Sigh . . . At least our little postage stamp lot demonstrates that there is a different way of doing things. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New EPA Rules
e pollution from those other > nearby sources by say 100 tons per year (this is where the emissions > trading program came in) by permanently removing those emissions, then > Exxon could bank those emissions reductions and use a PART of them to > get the permit to build there new plant. Part of the banked emissions > are permanently removed so their is a net reduction in emissions every > time emissions are banked! I'm not entirely against the principle of emissions trading. The concept seems easily abused, however, and goes against the principle of getting SOME reductions that you've outlined. We could do the same thing by phasing out the "grandfather clause" of current regulations and phase in new pollution restrictions that will reduce emissions on older equipment. This would also serve to eliminate the financial incentive to keep obsolete industrial equipment operating. > Keep in mind that EPA regulations are very broad and they also have > local air concentration limits on each air pollutant and that if and > when they are exceeded they trigger requirements for extra pollution > control equipment or other reduction methods and also kill any new > permits from new businesses or expansions of existing businesses wanting > to move into the area until existing sources reduce those emissions > below the local concentration limits enough to make room for the > expansion. Their is a separate requirement for new source permits that > new sources can not contribute to significant deterioration of local air > or water quality. And this is a bad thing for WHAT reason? You're writing to someone who grew up in Los Angeles. I have very little patience for air polluters! (Profitable Oil Companies) > I think the US refineries have been in general more profitable recently > due to the recent (since about 2002) short supply of their products, but > keep in mind that it is the oil they need to make their products that > has gone up by 700% in the last few years that has caused most of the > increase in gas prices. The oil exporters and oil exploration, > drilling, production and transportation firms are the primary ones > profiting from higher oil prices. Many US refiners were on the edge of > bankruptcy, off and on since 1981. I heard of one independent refiner in > Louisiana that lost his company last year because he had negotiated > fixed price contracts for the gasoline he produced and the increased > price of oil finally bankrupted him. Ok, I've learned something new. I was under the impression that oil refineries were owned by oil companies. The only one near me is Cherry Point, Washington, which is owned by Chevron. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen generator
greg Kelly wrote: > As I have been building my biodiesel plans, other interesting ideas and > plans are popping up. The most recent is the opportunity to acquire at a > fraction of it's "worth" a hydrogen generating system. It's doubtful that a hydrogen generating system is worth ANYTHING, unless you have a use for hydrogen. There's a man in California named Walt Pyle who wrote a few hydrogen articles for Home Power magazine several years ago. He built his own system and uses it for welding. Electricity in California is too expensive to waste on hydrogen. Up here in BC, however, where premium gasoline is now running $1.15 per liter, it would be cheaper for me to electrolyze water and burn hydrogen in my truck than gasoline. Go figure! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New EPA Rules
Mike McGinness wrote: > Robert, > > The quotation below reported to be from "John Walke" contains some > inaccurate information. > Perhaps it was just a bad example, but here in Texas most (if not all) > of the refineries were (and still are) exempt from the CAA and were > protected under a grandfather clause from enforcement as long as they > made no significant process changes or upgrades (Called new source > review, NSR). They were / are exempt if they were built before the CAA > was passed into law. Many had emissions well over 1000 tons per year, > and I think some still do! Texas passed a similar law (to the topics > proposed law) a few years ago that gave grandfathered sources in Texas > such as refineries an opportunity to voluntarily make major > modifications to reduce emissions without going through formal BACT and > MACT (Best Available Control Technology, Maximum Achievable Control > Technology) permitting as long as the net result was reduced emissions. I have heard of this, and what you've pointed out makes sense. In fact, I've heard some people complaining that the Clean Air Act provisions have actually limited investment in refining capacity, resulting in gasoline supply bottlenecks that serve to increase prices at the pump. Those "pesky environmentalists" make everything so expensive for the rest of us! > The idea was that these facilities were avoiding making any changes > because they would trigger NSR and thus trigger forced, federally > mandated, MAJOR costly upgrade costs site wide based on MACT, BACT > requirements. The new rule allowed them to make voluntary changes that > reduced total emissions without triggering NSR permitting. Those > refineries that did not voluntarily enter the program and reduce > emissions were promised that new laws would be passed in a few years > eliminating the grandfather clause entirely thus forcing them into > buying BACT, MACT hardware site wide. Many joined the program > voluntarily and made major changes that reduced emissions substantially. But would they have joined the voluntary program without the threat of legislation compelling them to do so? I've seen the same sort of dynamic at play in California with respect to auto makers and emissions controls. On one hand, I can understand the very reasonable point you're making: It's better to get SOME movement forward in cleaning up big polluters than leaving current provisions in place that allow them to indefinately spew waste into the air without regulation. But then, isn't the whole point of having the EPA in operation supposed to be about environmental protection? Why should the EPA be interested in such a broad based loosening of clean air regulations? Haven't the very same companies that own polluting refineries made BILLIONS in profits over the last year or so? Shouldn't some of those profits go into cleaning up the mess they're making of our air resource? > I am not saying this proposed new rule should not be scrutinized for > unwarranted loopholes, but there are two sides to this story. Of course! And I appreciate you making that point. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New EPA Rules
Zeke Yewdall wrote: > What is the logic in a 25 ton cap? Are all chemical factories the > same size? 25 tons for large factory might actually very low, > compared to the total throughput of chemicals, but for a small factory > (say a homebrew biodiesel setup), a 25 ton allowance might be more > than it could possibly produce in a year if it used the dirtiest setup > possible. Can't you see the logic in the Brave New World of the Clear Skies Initiative? That factory that's spewing out tons of pollution can buy pollution credits from your homebrew biodiesel operation. Zeke, you could become a biodiesel entrepreneur! The big polluters would PAY you for the right to wreck everyone else's air, and you wouldn't actually need to work for your money, nor make an actual product. Ain't it great? > And a ton of dioxin is not equal to a ton of NOx. How can you > regulate it just by weight, even if all chemical plants were the same > size? Don't confuse the NeoCons with facts. It's all about faith based initiatives, remember? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] New EPA Rules
It looks more like the "Endangering Permission Agency" . . . http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5321132 A leaked document from the Environmental Protection Agency suggests that the agency is considering a significant change in air-pollution rules. It would give chemical factories, refineries and manufacturing plants new leeway to increase emissions of pollutants that cause cancer and birth defects. John Walke, who heads the clean-air program for the environmental group Natural Resources Defense Council, says he received the document from sources at the EPA who wanted the public to become aware of this "backward step." Currently, any factory that emits more than 25 tons of toxic chemicals into the air each year must reduce its pollution as much as it feasibly can. Walke says the draft proposal would give a break to companies that own those plants. After they clean up, their only requirement would be to keep their pollution below 25 tons a year. "Take an oil refinery that 10 years ago polluted 100 tons of toxic air pollution," Walke says. "Due to the Clean Air Act, that refinery today will emit only five tons of toxic air pollution. Under this EPA proposal, that refinery can increase it's toxic pollution from five tons to 25 tons." But Lorraine Gershman of the American Chemistry Council says there are no incentives to increase emissions under the new rules. Gershman says her industry has been pushing EPA to make the changes described in the draft rule. Under the current rules, even after the factory cleans up, it's still considered a major polluter and is required to keep monitoring its pollution and reporting what it learns to the government. Under the draft proposal, these requirements would disappear. "We believe it's EPA recognizing a lot of these major sources have made in reducing their emissions and realizing that there should be some sort of benefit of that, and that is reducing the administrative burdens," Gershman says. Lobbyist Scott Segal, who represents refineries, says the proposal will give big polluters the incentive to reduce pollution below that 25-ton-a-year cap. But EPA officials charged with running the air toxics programs outside of Washington apparently disagree. In December, the regional officials sent a letter to EPA headquarters warning that the draft rule would be "detrimental to the environment and undermine the intent of the program." The letter criticizes EPA's draft rule for failing to analyze how many companies might be encouraged to cut pollution and how many might relax their pollution controls because they're already under the threshold. In the draft rule, the EPA asserts that plants will not use the rule to increase pollution because they'll want to "avoid negative publicity and maintain their appearance as responsible businesses." But EPA's regional air toxic chiefs in their letter call that statement unfounded and overly optimistic. EPA spokesperson Lisa Lybbert released a statement saying that "commenting on the draft at this point in the process is like asking us how a cake tastes when we haven't even put the batter in the oven." robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: The Age of Autism: Hot potato on the Hill
Gary L. Green wrote: > With slight variations, A child was born, normal, healthy, 10 on the > APGAR scale. Then came the first vaccination. Something happened > either a fever, convulsion, something. Then out the other end of the > vaccination came a damaged child. > > How often does this happen? Obviously a "statistically insignificant > amount" but it's only statistically insignificant when it isn't your child. This may be true. But I also remember polio, whooping cough and other nasty, debilitating diseases for which there was no cure and no effective treatment before vaccination. If there are demonstrable problems with the ingredients in our vaccines, then let's do something to change the ingredients. Doing away with vaccinations will only return us to the bad old days BEFORE vaccinations were available. > > My daughter? Oh, I've doomed her to certain death by never vaccinating > her here in germ infested Malaysia. Eleven years plus and going > strong. Seems to get sick less often than her vaccinated counterparts. > Just my quack delusional view of the world, I know. She's lucky she didn't grow up among a large population of other children who likewise DIDN'T get vaccinated. I have spent many years in classrooms and I have YET to see a child adversely impacted by vaccinations. My own children have been vaccinated and routinely get their booster shots. Neither of them suffer from health issues or learning problems, nor have any children in my extended family. Now the sample population from whence I derive my anecdotal evidence is vanishingly small. Perhaps my experience is limited to healthy children. But I remember three children living in my neighborhood who'd been stricken with polio when I was a child, and that was also a very small population sample. I only know ONE person who has contracted the disease since then, but he lived in India as a small boy and DIDN'T get vaccinated. (He subsequently became the bass player for the Canadian band "Bass is Base", and I've known few musicians who are more talented!) There has to be a better solution to this issue than either blithely believing every vaccine is harmless, or espousing a desire to rid the world of vaccines altogether. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone
Appal Energy wrote: > Preach it Brother Rabello! Grief! Even my sisters don't call me that! > Always wondered how so many Christians could shuck off environmental > responsibility - as if right to life in the future is somehow different > from right to life in the present. I think most people only swallow what they're fed with a spoon. I once got in trouble among certain parishoners for teaching out of the Bible in a church school, so I walked into the pastor's office with my Bible and a pair of scissors. I put the Bible and scissors on his desk and asked the pastor to cut out the parts he didn't want me teaching. Am I afraid to make a point? I didn't keep that job, but in retrospect, it wasn't worth having. Too many people turn off their brains when it comes to faith. The drummer in my praise band has a tee shirt that reads: "Jesus, I love you, but save me from your followers." > There are a few good beans and it's getting better. Just looking for a > day when the glass is two-halfves full. Keep the faith, Todd! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone
Mike Weaver wrote: > Sorry, dude. > > You lost me at the reading part. Oh, that's right. You didn't hear it from the pulpit . . . I'm doing the praise service at church this weekend. Wanna come up and hear me talk about environmental stewardship? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To Steal an Election"
Keith Addison wrote: > A Natural History of Peace > By Robert M. Sapolsky > > From Foreign Affairs, January/February 2006 What an interesting article! Thanks, Keith! It appears that what we need is a "selective bottleneck" to eliminate the knuckle draggers from among us and leave the more docile humans behind . . . Now, I've read about that somewhere . . . robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Greenhouse theory - smashed by biggest stone
Mike Weaver wrote: > Wrong. Right. > > *God gave Man dominion over all the earth.* The implication is one of stewardship. Man was supposed to work the earth and care for it. > > *Genesis 1:26* Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our > likeness, and */let them rule/* over the fish of the sea and the birds > of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the > creatures that move along the ground." "The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time for judging the dead and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great; and for destroying those who destroy the earth." Rev. 11:18 > Now, getta the way of my SUV. I gotta stop at Wal-Mart before church > starts. Now, I know people have difficulty with reading comprehension, and I realize your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek. But in the event that some profoundly misinformed church goer spews out the "dominion" argument, it's often helpful to respond WITH scripture in order to provide some enlightenment. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To Steal an Election"
Joe Street wrote: > Actually I would argue that Aldous Huxley was closer to the mark. It's > easier to control people with soma than brute force. Keep them asleep > and numbed with warm fuzzy patriotic feelings and mostly distracted with > useless information, propaganda and flashy entertainment, and they will > hand the reins over to you with gladness to do with as you please. The lines between "Brave New World" and "1984" have become blurred in my memory. This is what happens when you get old! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To Steal an Election"
eo-liberal economics has held sway,
> and that both the neocons and the far-right "Christians" have been
> putting their programs into action, and that the use and sheer volume
> and effectiveness of spin and consent manufacturing has exploded,
> especially in the US, while media ownership and control have
> imploded, especially in the US. All these at the same time, following
> Watts and the late sixties-early seventies. It may have been a
> reaction to what happened in those days rather than just a continuing
> symptom of something long endemic. I think the last 25-30 years is
> something of an era in its own right, not separated from what went
> before but different in some essential ways.
Yet there are so many historic parallels. The quality of political
rhetoric and the quality of speech on news broadcasts has declined
significantly since the days of Edward Murrow. However, the same
interventionist idealism that dominated discussions in the 1960's
thrives in the United States. We went to Vietnam to "make the world
safe for democracy". Now we've invaded Iraq under a similarly
ridiculous pretext. (While at the same time, denouncing the terrorist
organization Hamas for winning the most recent election in Palestine.
So much for integrity!) I recall atrocities done in Southeast Asia,
and we've learned that torture and trigger-happiness still exist among
certain members of the US military. I remember ridicule of the
concept of peak oil production in the US during the late '60s, and I
hear the same arguments now for world oil production.
Surely there ARE some differences. I think George Orwell had it
right (though his timing was off by a few years) and Josef Goebbels
would be quite comfortable in the current administration. That
wouldn't have been the case 40 years ago. However, it seems that
we've got to have something to fear in order to justify our investment
in armaments. We've gone from communism to terrorism now, but the
warning words of President Eisenhower and Edward Murrow from the
1950's STILL ring true today.
> Life for humans and pre-humans too has always been far more a
> cooperative venture. Yes, all abuses are old, but to ascribe to them
> a major and continuing role in our social development is a Victorian
> idea and it's quite easily debunked. It's yet another out-of-place
> idea that's gained more and more sway in the popular mind over the
> last 25-30 years, wonder why that might be (not!)?
Ok, I think I'm not expressing my intent correctly. I'm not excusing
deviant behavior, merely pointing out that it has its roots in very
ancient patterns. We are free to control our urges and impulses, and
for the most part, the role of socialization requires such restraint.
>
> Please have a read of this, you'll enjoy it:
>
> http://snipurl.com/o8fg
> Foreign Affairs
> A Natural History of Peace
> By Robert M. Sapolsky
> From Foreign Affairs, January/February 2006
>
> Not the whole story though. A major difference is that the pre-human
> apes left the forests and took to the plains and what happened to
> them there. Plains, note, not caves!
I get an error when I try to go there.
>> I wrote a song about racism once that deals with the apparent
>>"normalcy" of North American society. One lines goes:
>>
>> "We're expecting peace when our leaders meet
>> while we hate the man who lives down the street
>> and in anger, we lose all aplomb
>> and resolve our disputes with a fist,
>>or a gun, or a bomb"
>
>
> Good, Robert! Is it rock'n'roll? :-) The "we" is only some of us though, IMHO.
Of course it's rock 'n' roll! (And it REALLY rocks!) The "we"
refers to the people in my hometown, a place where swastikas STILL
adorn the light posts, and while I apply the concept of racism to the
country as a whole, I only do so because that's the behavior I
observe. Too bad I can't post a recording . . . (It would have to BE
recorded, first!)
> Aw gee. It's not as unethical as selling weapons in order to start a
> civil war though, and dull kitchen knives aren't as bad as napalm,
> landmines, cluster bombs, white phosphorus and DU. You don't buy it
> huh. Sigh. I guess I'll just have to stick to flogging porno videos
> to Mike Weaver.
!!!
robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
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Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To Steal an Election"
These people are sane, eh? They live with their families in their > neighbourhoods and go to their jobs and to church on Sundays and > fantasise about shooting people, cutting their heads off with a blunt > kitchen knife and sticking daggers in their eyes just for fun. Sane. I wrote a song about racism once that deals with the apparent "normalcy" of North American society. One lines goes: "We're expecting peace when our leaders meet while we hate the man who lives down the street and in anger, we lose all aplomb and resolve our disputes with a fist, or a gun, or a bomb" > This is sound advice - there's nothing you can do about them, so do > nothing about them, don't waste your efforts. Todd seems to have more energy for this sort of thing. Personally, I find it exhausting. > D'you think there's maybe some money to be made selling these guys > dull kitchen knives on the Web? LOL! That's about as ethical as selling weapons into a civil war! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Oil in Alberta
bob allen wrote: > The current energy source for the process heat is natural gas from the north > (Mackenzie?) I once had a client whose career involved designing facilities for the oil and gas industry. He told me that the new extraction plants burn unrefinable tar solids for process energy. It's supposed to allow the process to be self sufficient. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Crower six-stroke engine
Jason & Katie wrote:
> is there any way to contact this person?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> does he have a website?
http://www.crower.com
> if he can
> tweak mileage out of a 350 then lets try it with a 2.5L four cylinder, i
> need to call this guy.
619.661.6477
Good luck!
robert luis rabello
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Re: [Biofuel] Crower six-stroke engine
Michael Redler wrote: > News: Hot rod engineer makes six-stroke engine > 17 Mar 06 15:14 Bruce Crower is one of those guys who just isn't content within the "box". Back in the early 1980's, he was marketing a "compound expansion" camshaft. The idea was that a high compression, long stroke engine could run with a very short intake valve duration. Reducing the intake charge by 1 / 3, compressing to 15:1 and allowing the resulting gases to fully expand, Crower squeezed very impressive fuel economy figures from a 5.7 liter small block Chevy. The engine had reduced torque, but improved horsepower because of the scavanging effect its odd valve timing produced at high rpm. This was just one example of how thinking differently can result in creative problem solving. In the case of the compound expansion camshaft, decreasing fuel quality killed the thing, but I've always wanted to try that approach with hydrogen, ethanol or propane. And then there's direct injection, rotary valves, supplemental H2 injection, a hybrid stirling cycle and a whole HOST of other ideas I'd love to try . . . It's too bad I'm not independently wealthy! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] quitting corporate america, WAS Let me choose
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> Funny how when you are a kid you
> want to grow up so you can do what you want, but the majority of us,
> when we grow up, have even less choice (or choose to have less choice)
> than we did as kids.
How true! Part of the challenge stems from the need to pay bills
regularly for all of the "stuff" we accumulate. I'm finding that
without a regular paycheck, living from day to day requires far more
faith and determination. My kudos go out to you for choosing a
different path. I wish you success!
What do you call someone with a home-based business?
Broke.
robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
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[Biofuel] This Year's Garden
Two weeks ago we had snow here. Since then, however, we've had warm days and our trees and shrubs are in a riot of blossoming. The pear tree that I was CERTAIN wouldn't make it through last summer is literally covered in buds, and the two Italian prunes that were so badly infested with aphids last season are putting out their new leaves already. My boys and I have been getting rid of winter weeds. This morning I'm going to the bovine auction barn to pick up at least one load of composted barn litter. Hopefully, the owners of the place haven't had the oldest and best material carted off to a landfill somewhere! I do, however, have quite a pile of compost that's been brewing over the winter. I intend to put that material into my raised beds and see how things go there this year. By the way, while I was cleaning out the compost bin day before yesterday, my youngest son told me he saw a rat inside. I didn't believe him until I dug out a bit more material, and suddenly, the rat appeared! It was a rather healthy looking specimen, I'd say, but I'm really glad my sweetheart wasn't there to see it! So I'm hoping that all of this composting will help my trees ward off infestation this summer. I noticed that the predatory wasps are back now, but there doesn't seem to be a lot for them to eat. We have robins hunting for worms in our yard, songbirds nesting in our neighbor's cedar hedges, and overall, our lot seems almost anxious to be productive again! (Though the horsetail hasn't come up yet, and I'm just WAITING for that to happen!) We have brand new seed, rather than someone else's cast offs, and it will be interesting to see if we get more vigorous growth this time around. One of the really nice things about planning and planting a garden, is that it's an intrinsically optimistic activity. Despite all the bad news in the world, there are good things happening in my soil. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'
regina abbott wrote: > This is E in Montana. All of these things you cite about possible > atrocities are disgusting and regrettable like most everything else in > war. But what about the soldiers? Some of us get very upset that people like you and the friends you left behind end up getting their blood shed to promote misery and fill the coffers of the political masters who sent you into harm's way. I don't need to remind you that soldiers, though they must obey orders, are expected to act in a professional manner and exercise good judgment. Everyone understands that soldiering is a dangerous occupation, yet there is NO excuse for mistreating civilians, nor prisoners of war. Bullets and bombs notwithstanding, we expect our warriors to reflect the values of our society, and I don't think any decent American should advocate the slaughter of innocents and torture of prisoners. As for anti-American sentiments, please understand that this is NOT an American forum. Every once in awhile someone expresses disgust with what is often perceived as anti-Americanism. This is, however, a place to discuss ideas in a rational manner. Flag waving and national anthems will merit few tears here. Some of us express our dissent in this international forum as a matter of patriotic duty. Please don't confuse dissent with treason. You served, in principle, so that I and others like me would have the right to express our views. Some things in this forum are very difficult for us to read, but real Americans are mature enough to listen, especially when our friends are speaking. You are among friends, sir. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency
bob allen wrote: > particulate emissions? That's a good question. How do the modern, common rail direct injection diesel engines fare in terms of their particulate emissions? Does anyone know? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Brutal Christ of the Armageddonites - Religious fanaticism in American foreign policy
Evergreen Solutions wrote: > Heh. In other news, the super nice fan club from www.godhatesfags.com That site is so ridiculous I thought it was a parody at first. Apparently, however, the web site owner is dead serious. However, I've read somewhere: "Do not judge. Do not condemn. For by the measure you use, it will be measured unto you." Given that I need mercy, I guess I'd rather err on the side of mercy. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Brutal Christ of the Armageddonites - Religious fanaticism in American foreign policy
Keith Addison posted this from Jon Basil Utley: > "A major reason the Armageddonites have become so powerful is that > most journalists can't comprehend that millions of Americans could > really want, in this day and age, their God to destroy most of the > human race, much less that they are donating millions to promote > it..." We're singing an old song in church this morning. The second verse goes like this: "Then to side with truth is noble, when we share her wretched crust; ‘ere her cause bring fame and profit, and ‘tis prosperous to be just. Then it is the brave man chooses, while the coward stands aside, ‘till the multitude make virtue of the faith they had denied." Given that the song was written more than 100 years ago, it's chillingly prophetic. The Dispensationalists preach in their big, beautiful churches, driving their expensive cars and living a lavish lifestyle while condemning millions with their hateful rhetoric. It's a lie, a whopper of a lie, and as Mr. Utley points out: "Such a 'war of the cross' should strike Christians as a contradiction in terms. A literal war in the name of Jesus - a 'Christian war' - is an oxymoron, like 'hateful Christian.' Jesus said that His kingdom was not of this world, otherwise His followers would draw swords to defend Him - and presumably the kingdom itself (John 18:36)." The drummer in my praise band has a t-shirt with the following inscription: "Lord Jesus, I love you, but please save me from your followers." Of course, it can be argued that people who practice and preach hate are NOT followers of Christ, no matter what they say. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Party Hacks - The fix is in for 2008
Keith Addison wrote: > http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12155.htm > > Party Hacks > The fix is in for 2008. > > By Chris Floyd > > 03/02//06 "Moscow Times" -- -- Two weeks ago, an obscure, unelected, > Republican-appointed official in California decided the future of the > world. Uh, the Secretary of State IS an elected position in California. The current Secretary of State was appointed after the elected official resigned several months ago. The above statement is a wee bit misleading, but if the rest of the article is factually correct, this is an ominous development indeed. How can we take our own country back if the electoral system is rigged against our wishes? I used to complain that the German people of the 1930's essentially did nothing to check the rise of the National Socialists to power, but now that I see the same kind of thing happening in my own country, I have a broader appreciation for how difficult it is to swim against the tide. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] This is not a joke.
MALCOLM MACLURE wrote: > Perhaps the date falling on April fools day could be capitalised upon to > demonstrate how much of a joke the US government has become in its > standing for democracy, freedom….. > I think that's amply illustrated by our government's opposition to the recent Palestinian elections. Apparently, we only want democracy when the elected regimes suit our purposes. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Joe Street wrote: > ROFL ROFL Aldergrove? I used to live there. It's a town full of single moms on welfare who move from one relationship with a no-good guy to the next. What's so subversive about Aldergrove? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
John Mullan wrote: > I don't like the flimsy excuse give by that Telecom guy "why should they use > our pipes for free". Wasn't all of that infrastructure built on the backs of rate payers anyway? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush's state of the Union speech
Jason L Walck wrote: > We ARE rebuilding Iraq and Af...At least that's sure what it looked like > when I was on the ground in Baghdad and people told me how things were > slowly improving and handed us flowers... How long ago were you there? How much money was allocated for rebuilding Iraq in last year's budget? What about this year's? I don't want to dismiss your experience, but let's focus on the big picture and see how much it would actually cost to replace what we destroyed, and how much it would cost to actually develop a functional infrastructure in that country. We invaded it. It's our baby now. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush's state of the Union speech
Zeke Yewdall wrote: > " here we have a serious problem: America is addicted to oil, which is > often imported from unstable parts of the world" Yes, GWB actually > said that on national TV. Big deal. He says a lot of stuff on TV. We were supposed to rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan, too. What happened to the budget for that? We were supposed to have funding for fuel cell cars FOUR YEARS ago, but not a penny has been included in ANY Bush administration budget for that purpose. You can always tell when Mr. Bush is lying. It happens whenever he moves his lips. This is too little, too late, and nothing fundamental about conservation was included in his speech. If he REALLY wanted to do something about our addiction to oil, I could give him MANY ideas. The problem is, however, he and his cronies don't want to hear any of them. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Adventures in Composting
forms of combined nitrogen." (Ahem.) > Too much moisture, not enough air supply. I'm beginning to think the plastic composter itself contributes to this problem, especially toward the bottom where the air supply seems to get choked out by all of the damp material that blocks air to the pile. I suppose I could solve that problem by drilling holes into the sides and inserting plastic pipe that has holes drilled at regular intervals. > To make thermophilic (hot) compost you'd need more dry browns (on the > C side of the C:N ratio) and maybe more bulk. And it's probably > easier to get it working right when you make it all at once instead > of filling the bin up steadily. We have a fairly steady supply of kitchen scraps, as my sweetheart makes nearly every meal we eat from scratch. It's hard to control the ratio of what goes into the composter. However, we have a steady supply of newspaper that probably could be shredded rather than recycled. (Some of the newspaper goes into the bunny cage, too. I tend to throw that into the pile of material that needs shredding, as it tends to be soaked with rabbit urine, but by the time I GET the shredder out and started, the newspaper has dried.) > You're making mesophilic compost, and it's being quite quick about it > because the worms are finishing the job at the bottom. Important to > have this kind of compost in contact with the earth (with > thermophilic compost you might have it off the ground to provide air > supply from underneath). The composter sits on the ground, so you're likely right about this. > Compost like this is just fine, but the quantity is often too low. > How much are you producing? I can take three to four 20 liter buckets of compost out of the bin every two to three weeks. I've noticed that we get a lot of common chickweed (stellaria media) in our flower beds because I've been putting compost into them. The chickweed came to our property courtesy of the barn litter I've been adding to the soil. It makes a nice ground cover, actually, and seems to choke out other, less attractive species. Still, it would be nice to have the pile hot enough to kill seeds entirely, especially since I have to weed out the stellaria from around my trees. > Also it won't kill weed seeds, and there are other things too that won't > be killed at those temperatures, nor necessarily by the worms, but > IMO they'll be well-controlled in the resulting microorganism > populations. That would be provided we actually have healthy microflora and fauna in our compost culture. It would be interesting to put a sample under the microscope and see what's there! > > By the way, Q.R. is really good stuff, worth paying for. > > http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/QR/QRCO.html > Common-Sense Compost Making - How to use Q.R. Quick Return Herbal > Compost Activator I will check it out. The JTF small farms resources are excellent, Keith! Thank you for all the hard work that went into compiling the information for the rest of us. (sweet smell) > If you scratch away the leaves and litter under a tree in a forest > until you get to the soil, does it smell similar? Similar, yes, but our compost smells sweeter. > With thermophilic composting it's quite easy and common to produce a > finished product in less than two weeks, dark crumbly humus with > little or no trace left of the original materials. It's a powerful > process when it gets above about 55 deg C (up to 65-70). I can't imagine ours gets up that high. > I think it's the worms that are doing the work for you as much as or > more than the composter is. Likely, but as we say in Southern California: "Whatever works!" In spring, song birds flock to our garden to feast on all the worms. Whenever we get a heavy rain, several specimens (some of whom are quite large) wind up on our driveway where they dry out and die if I don't get to them first and throw them back onto the soil. Someone told me once that earthworms can drown if the soil isn't draining properly, and poor draining IS a persistent problem around here. In the main part of our garden, we've built up about 10 cm of topsoil over the past three years. Beneath this, the heavy clay subsoil remains. My experience should serve as a warning to everyone who builds a new home. Paying attention to the soil and making sure the excavators don't remove it all will save a LOT of work and headache later on. > Keep on growing fertile soil Robert and I'm sure that in time the > trees will do it for you all by themselves. I'm working on it, Keith. I just hope that they survive until I ge
Re: [Biofuel] Canada gone really neo-con
Kenji James Fuse wrote: > Canada is about to become a provincial territory of the Empire of the USA, > what with the newly elected reactionary and neo-con Conservative party, > led by homophobe and misogynist Stephen Harper. It's a minority government. Traditionally, minority governments don't last very long up here. Also, I think you may be understating the underlying nationalism of Canadians. They DO love their country, even if they're not as overt about it as we Americans tend to be, and much of that nationalism gets expressed as a contrast between their country and the United States. Witness some of the snarky comments made in response to my remark that public schools in some Canadian provinces were once run by the Catholic church. (That is a fact, not advocacy on my part!) I got lumped into the same batch of dough as Pat Robertson after making that statement . . . > The 'harmonization' between the two countries, who once held the longest > unprotected border, was begun in the eighties with the treasonous Brian > Mulroney's Free Trade Agreement, and continued in backroom deals with the > thirteen-year reign of the Liberal Party. That's been nothing short of disgraceful, especially given the conduct of my country with respect to the softwood lumber dispute. > Offshore oil drilling in British Columbia, which has been halted under a > moratorium since the idea was proposed in the nineties, is strongly > supported by the Conservative Party. Fortunately, as they are only a > minority government, the Opposition will block this horrendous > undertaking. Isn't there also opposition from the aboriginal peoples in Haida Gwaii? I thought the primary reason for the moratorium involved THEIR wishes to prevent the drilling. > What is wrong with rural Canadian voters? How can they fall for the > 'grassroots' posturing of a bunch of corporate thugs like the > Conservatives? Is it really a vote FOR the Conservatives, or is it a backlash against the smug corruption of the Liberals? Here in Chilliwack, there is no hope for any party OTHER than the Conservatives, but then, folk around here pass laws restricting what their neighbors can do on Sunday, so that should come as no surprise . . . I've had several discussions about this election with family members. What are the alternatives? The Christian Heritage Party? The NDP? The Marxist-Leninist Party? How about the Marijuana Party? Are any of those groups any more credible? Interestingly, if I could vote up here and if everyone WOULD vote their conscience, our family would have elected an MP from the Green Party. However, there is a strong perception that voting for anyone other than the Conservatives or Liberals is a "wasted vote". Perhaps if there was a "no" vote available, things would be different. I expect, at any rate, that you Canadians will be returning to the polls within the next two years. > Not that the Liberal Party is much better, in terms of > selling the country to the highest bidder, but at least they seemed > genuinely committed to the struggle for resistance to American absorption. A recent cover of McLeans magazine showed the president of Iran, with the headlines "Public Enemy Number One". I think the well oiled machine of neo con propaganda is alive and well in Canada. > Can any of you send me the words to the Star-Spangled Banner? I wanna > become a good American before it's too late... If you become a good American, you'll RESIST the kleptocracy and corruption that's taken over our government! (Now Mr. Bush claims that he's perfectly within his legal authority to listen in on conversations I'm having with my mother, or my sisters in the US!) After all, the communication involves someone outside of the US, and you know that we pacifist Christians who owe our primary allegiance to the Kingdom of Heaven are deeply subversive! If it's good enough for the Quakers, it's good enough for me! As far as the national anthem is concerned, I think it was a pretty poor choice. You have to have an operatic range to sing the song, and the middle verses (which don't get sung . . . ) say some nasty things about our British allies. I guess, given that it was written during the War of 1812, that we should include Canadians, too. After all, weren't your troops involved in those terrorist attacks on the White House and the Capitol building? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists
[Biofuel] Adventures in Composting
Hello everyone! I like what my power shredder does to the organic material around my property, but I HATE operating the thing. It's hard to start, bogs easily and burns an awful lot of fuel for such a small engine . . . Anyway, here's the gist of my post for today. Using the "power compost" method I find that I have way more compost in a relatively short time than I've ever had available before. I put shredded material (mostly cuttings from our garden and vegetable stems that are tough) into the top of my plastic composter and unload material from the bottom. (We also put in all of our kitchen scraps, and the waste from our bunny cage.) It gets warm, compared to the atmosphere around it, but I think it's still too wet to really get hot. (And once the weather turned cool, I stopped putting "organic compost enhancement liquid" on the pile.) When I shovel compost from the bottom of the bin, it has a sweet, earthy smell to it and aside from the remnants of straw residue (which doesn't break down very well, even after it's gone through the shredder) the resulting compost is VERY dark in color. I've been dumping the compost from the bottom of the bin into a larger pile that simply sits next to the composter, then when I'm ready to put compost on my plants, I turn the large pile over and remove material from the bottom that looks like dark, loamy soil. The sweet smell intrigues me. I wonder if perhaps we have too much carbohydrate in our diets . . . My compost is NOT getting hot enough to kill seeds, though. I've noticed that the occasional bean dumped into the compost will sprout. One thing that astonished me today, however, is that a cantaloupe shell that my sweetheart threw out has virtually disintegrated after about two weeks in the pile! Also, as I was removing material from the compost bin, I went through several shovel loads that seemed to contain more earthworms than organic material. We've been steadily increasing the worm population around here for the last few years, but I don't recall EVER seeing so many worms in our compost! (Lots of centipedes, too!) Once all the rain stops, I'll do dormant spray on my trees. I have two peach trees planted on the north-facing side of my property that started life as seedlings last summer. They seem to be doing well, but they're both COVERED in green algae. I think I'm going to have to move them to the western side of the house where they'll get more sunlight and hopefully dry out. I really love eating fruit, but I've had terrible luck with fruit trees. One day I hope to better understand how to grow them, and I hope my efforts won't kill off the ones I have! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bin Laden citing US polls about withdrawing from Iraq
David Miller wrote: > See, here's the crux of the problem. Here is what you're missing. > > Whose religious principle of "do no harn to your neighbor" and "do not > harm a child" do you hold? I began my contribution to this thread by simply stating that in many "free" countries, people tolerate much more religious influence in their government than is true for Americans, and I used the example of schools in certain Canadian provinces to illustrate my point. From there, this thread has denigrated considerably, and I've found myself being lumped into the same category with Pat Robertson! Grief, people! I've been around in this forum for a LONG time, and most of you ought to know better than that! To be completely clear, before I abandon this thread entirely: 1. Many people who live in secular, democratic societies accept / tolerate a degree of religious influence in their statutes. I happen to live in a place that prohibits making noise on Sunday. Why Sunday? Why not Thursday? The ONLY reason for this is a religious one, and though I don't ascribe to honoring Sunday as a holy day, I live in this community without raising the ire of my neighbors or incurring the wrath of the authorities. I'm confident that the atheists and pagan who live in my neighborhood deal with this issue in a similar manner. Despite the oppression of a law that restricts my freedom on the basis of a religious point of view, the rain still fell this morning and my heart is still beating. My wife grew up in British Columbia and attended public school during the 1960s. As a child, her class recited the Lord's Prayer and sang "God Save the Queen". This kind of thing was not tolerated in the public schools of my childhood, but then, I grew up in the United States, where there is far greater concern about separation of church and state than apparently was the case in Canada back then. So, deny all you want, I have plenty of evidence to support my contention that people in other countries tolerate MORE religious influence in their governments than makes me comfortable as an American. 2. Keith rightly points out that socialization is a very old construct in human society. I would add to this that religious thought is also a very old construct, and which came first cannot be objectively determined. (Our current "religions" are only several thousand years old, at best, but we don't have a lot of evidence concerning the belief systems that predated these and can only speculate on the basis of modern hunter / gatherer societies and the art / relics and burial rituals of ancient peoples.) He is also right in pointing out that there IS a consensus among people concerning what is "right" behavior, otherwise human behavior is driven by individualism. We cannot cooperate with one another unless we accept certain limitations to our behavior. 3. I am NOT advocating, nor have I EVER advocated, the position that secular governments should ascribe to a particular religious sect. I am far more comfortable with religion in the role of "the voice of conscience" in opposition than in power. I do believe, however, that religious and philosophical thought informs the conduct of our governments in the west. 4. We all seem to agree that heinous abuses have occurred in the past under the cloak of religion, under the guise of doing God's will. Using this as an all-encompassing blanket to dismiss ANY discussion on how law is INFORMED (perhaps "consulted" would be a better word?) by religious / philosophical thought is tantamount to discarding the laundry with the wash water. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bin Laden citing US polls about withdrawing from Iraq
their role as "the good shepherd". Many abuses are done in the name of God. I'm not talking about abuse, Michael. Please STOP making that assumption! > As long as those people step > forward, there will people who share my position that society needs > desperately to reject it in order to maintain harmony. I've said it to > you in this thread and I will have no problem saying it again to my > fellow worshipers at Sunday's after church coffee hour. Religion and > your sense of morality is a private matter, has no place in determining > a system of government and certainly doesn't need to be shoved down > anyone's throat. Agreed. In the context of a secular government, we should not have laws that impose a religious view on the society. That's a great principle, but I live in a neighborhood where I can't make noise on Sunday because that's when most of my neighbors go to church. Perhaps you should come up here and inform the City of Chilliwack that its bylaws interfere with harmony. I, for one, certainly do not consider Sunday a day of rest! > > If anyone runs for office in my district and uses the views you > expressed in this thread as part of their platform, I will show no > hesitation to organize against it (it wouldn't be the first time). I still think you're misunderstanding me. > So, I'm going to simply agree to disagree. I know a futile debate when I > see one. That is your right, but I don't think you disagree with me. I think you misunderstand me. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bin Laden Citing US Polls About Withdrawing From Iraq
Jerry wrote: > Seems we have only proved that we have alot of problems I think that you have illustrated how out of control much of this has become. We struggle with the concept of how much government should influence the conduct of our lives, and I believe Michael had a good point in underscoring the role of government "to protect the health and welfare of it's citizens and make sure that they have a minimum of obstacles to improving the quality of their lives and define their own sense of morality." Citizens of some countries DEMAND a higher degree of government involvement in the day to day conduct of their lives than is true of American citizens in general, and Canadians rank among that group. My earlier contention that other nations in the free world live with far more cozy arrangements between church and state than would ever be tolerated in the United States still stands. I'm an American, so I'm uncomfortable with government intrusion in my personal affairs, but that also means that I have to be responsible and accountable for my own actions, as I think you are trying to point out. Now, if people want to put the 10 commandments up in public buildings, they should LIVE by them. There is nothing wrong with that. (We have a portrait of Moses in the gallery of the US Senate that has been there for a LONG time, and nobody complains . . . ) People can have a theocracy if they want, as long as that is what they really want. Having written this, I don't like hearing that the United States is a "Christian" nation, when it is not, yet it's also wrong to deny the long influence of Christianity in establishing a consensus for morality and law among Western nations. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bin Laden citing US polls about withdrawing from Iraq
Michael Redler wrote: (Well, I wrote this part, not Michael!) > "Morality is about "right conduct", and I think we all have a basic > understanding of what this means." (To which Michael replied) > > The beginning of a slippery slope and it assumes that your basic > understanding and mine are identical with no Grey areas. Hmm . . . That's not really what I was thinking. Our society generally agrees that my rights end where yours begin, and that the weaker members of society should be protected from exploitation by those who are stronger. How that principle gets implemented into law depends on those we have elected to legislate on our behalf, but much of our law is based upon this idea. I think I understand, however, where you're coming from in this. So then I ask you: "How can we KNOW how we should behave?" and further, "Who is responsible for deciding what constitutes "right" conduct?" >Pat Robertson > talks about morality all the time on the 700 club. He's a blithering idiot and about as "amoral" as they come. > By the way "Lord of the Flies" is just fiction, right? People are all born > with the same sense of morality or at least the "three basic ways the > people have of defining what is right and wrong". I had no idea that > morality can be classified in such a simple way. I went from almost > countless ways down to three after reading one email! Can you think of any others? I've never considered myself brilliant in the philosophical realm, but am I not on to something here? > Morality and religion share at least one attribute. It should stay > private or at least shared among an consenting community. It absolutely > should not be taught from a single, narrow interpretation which is > assumed to be "common knowledge". But then, on what principles do we base our concept of law? I think you've illustrated nicely, with your Pat Robertson example, WHY we have to have some kind of guiding philosophy to undergird our legislation. That's why I mentioned consensus as one means. > Atheists can have morals without religion. In fact, from the "black > collar, police blotter" I included in my last post, religious people can > often have no morals according to the interpretation assumed by their > own religion. Right on both counts. So how do we decide that pedophilia is wrong, or that the using the counselor / client office for the purpose of generating sexual favors is wrong? How do we determine that bilking the public for money in stock manipulation, or selectively shutting down power stations to drive up the price of electricity is wrong? On what do we base those decisions? We have a LONG history in the west of depending on religious thought and philosophy to guide our thinking. Stating that we should eliminate the influence of religion from government might be wise if we wish to avoid the excesses of the past, but I think we need to be careful not to dismiss the role of religion in developing a societal consensus on what is right and what is wrong. I'm not sure you're really disagreeing with me in this. > Most importantly, a person with no morals (even as seen by > the most popular interpretations) can be quite functional in society > when they use a strictly economic philosophy in place of "morals" (i.e. > If I don't hurt that person, it's probable that he won't hurt me/if I > help that person, he might see me as an asset and invest time in helping > me in order to preserve a relationship). Although I don't subscribe to > this philosophy, I can't exclude it either. Respectfully, Michael, I don't agree with that. You are defining a moral principle by your example, one that is eclectic in nature for sure (one of my three!), but certainly principled. A member of society that has NO moral restraint is a very dangerous individual. We call those people sociopaths for good reason! > Now if you'll excuse me, I going to continue reading my book, Beyond > Good and Evil. If only Nietzsche knew of the "three basic ways", He > wouldn't have bothered with all that babble he went on about. I haven't read Nietzche in YEARS! (I think the last work of his I read was a translation of "Thus Spoke Zarathustra".) We can discuss the concept of "ubermenschen" too, but even that concept has its roots in the New Testament . . . robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bin Laden citing US polls about withdrawing from Iraq
Michael Redler wrote: > ...sounds redundant. Who doesn't like freedom? I put it in quotes because that phrase is used so often by our imperious leader to mean "people who are just like us". Canadians, though they sometimes don't like to admit it, differ from us Americans in very subtle ways. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference at all. > What's morality? There are as many definitions to this word as there are > cultures and religions. Nobody (religious or not) has the authority to > "legislate morality". It's the governments job to protect the health and > welfare of it's citizens and make sure that they have a minimum > of obstacles to improving the quality of their lives and define their > own sense of morality. "Morality" does not necessarily play a role, > irrespective of the definition you've chosen. Morality is about "right conduct", and I think we all have a basic understanding of what this means. There are three basic ways that people have of defining what is right and wrong. Either they accept the consensus of their society, select from various philosophical perspectives that "work" for them, or appeal to an objective, external standard by which conduct can be judged. I have a problem with people who insist that we put the 10 commandments up in public buildings then refuse to live by them. I have a problem when people who proclaim that abortion is murder, but think nothing of bombing civilians from 50 000 feet. I have a problem when someone says that THEIR version of "Christianity" leads to "godly" conduct, while at the same time advocating the exploitation of people (especially children!) and destruction of the earth. I have a problem with people who deny basic human rights to someone because of their race, religion, socio-economic status or sexual orientation, while using the name of God to justify intolerant and insensitive conduct. I have a problem with someone who thinks that we shouldn't have a healthy debate about the origins of humanity, while at the same time denying the right of other human beings to think differently. These issues are not the purvey of government. My SECULAR government shouldn't force me to think or behave against my own conscience. Am I making myself more clear? > Organized religion (including my own faith) is not exempt from the > struggle to either define or follow any interpretation of "morality" > (see below). Sigh . . . "Woe to those who cause one of my little ones to stumble!" robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bin Laden citing US polls about withdrawing from Iraq
Michael Redler wrote: > The Catholic church is one of the least tolerant of organized religions. > I should know. While planning my wedding, my fiance's priest told > me that I (having been baptized and confirmed in a protestant church) > have to go through a nine month process with a tribunal where I'm > required to undergo a psychological evaluation because I'm divorced (and > not Catholic). Well, I was simply astonished at the degree of cooperation between church and state when I first moved up here. However, I'm merely pointing out, by using this example, that other "freedom loving people" do not see the separation issue in the same light that is typical of us Americans. My point is that a certain degree of cooperation and understanding may not always be a BAD thing between church and government. I don't like seeing a secular government legislating morality, and like many Americans, I would strongly oppose such a move. What bothers me far more, however, is the deception being promoted upon us now, whereby certain SECULAR leaders are being promoted as Christians when their behavior in office clearly illustrates that nothing could be further from truth! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bin Laden citing US polls about withdrawing from Iraq
Michael Redler wrote: > > I went to the link. > > One sentence stood out among the others: > > "The province of Ontario has authorized the use of sharia law in civil > arbitrations, if both parties consent." > > That's pretty scary stuff. I reminds me of towns in the US trying to > push religion in science class (i.e. creative design). > Canadians seem WAY less worried about mingling church and state than we Americans. When I first moved up here, I was APALLED to learn that private, parochial schools were accepting money from the provincial government. Canadians would look at me askance and respond: "But we're paying taxes. Why SHOULDN'T our money go into private schools?" Public schools were run by the Catholic Church in Newfoundland and Labrador for many years, and the world did not end. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cooking oil isn't just for diesels anymore.
Alan Petrillo wrote:
> I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. I'm still not sure I
> believe it, frankly. But if it's a web stunt, then at least it's a
> _good_ web stunt!
>
> http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/09/strip_out_the_fans/
It would make for messy upgrades!
robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
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Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Fritz Friesinger wrote:
> Hey Robert,
> thats exactly what i am telling my Quebecer Freinds since 20 Jears
> Fritz from Quebec
I've never met a Quebecer I didn't like! Long ago, I actually
planned to write a book about a US invasion of Canada. I thought a
Hispanic soldier from the LA Barrio might meet up with a Francophone
resistance fighter and fall in love. He speaks Spanish, she speaks
French. She's Roman Catholic, so is he. They both live in within a
sea of Anglophones. Silly idea, really . . .
Or is it?
robert luis rabello
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Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Paul Webber wrote: > The US hasn't been warmongering after Canada for the past 5 years. Most > people cannot think of a good reason Canada would want nuclear weapons. > The reason that everyone is so quick to believe that Iran is trying to > get nuclear weapons is that the current administration is very obviously > antagonistic towards them. Most people would try to get weapons > themselves if they were in Iran's position to protect themselves against > the malevolence of the US. Most people would probably not admit it > because that would imply that we are reaping what we sow. Well, if the Bloc Quebecois ever won a majority in Parliament and seriously made an effort to separate from Canada, you might see things change on the south side of the border. I can hear the headlines already: "French Vote to Dismantle Democracy in Canada." "Hostile French Canadian Government Opposes US Foreign Policy." "Alberta Energy Minister Warns Tar Sands Not for Sale." "Candu Reactor Suspected of Plutonium Production." "US Troops Rescue Canada in Operation Northern Freedom." We Americans would have to come up here and straighten things out, putting those Francophones back into their place, and securing all of that energy that Alberta and British Columbia don't seem to know what to do with. Then, we could put an end to that silly softwood lumber dispute once and for all. You Canadians would welcome us with open arms, after all . . . wouldn't you??? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Zeke Yewdall wrote: >>From a religious studies perspective, I believe Judaism, Christianity, > and Islam are all semetic religions, and originally stem from Judaism > which was founded (or evolved from previous multi-diety/agricultural > religions) in the middle east around 4,000 years ago. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that all three religions stemmed from the faith of a single man, a "wanderer" (Habiru, in one of the ancient languages) named Abram who believed in God. His sons, Ishmael and Isaac, are reckoned as inheritors of the promises God made to Abram. Islam traces its lineage of faith through Ishmael, the Jews and Christians through Isaac. A tragedy in all of this discussion centers upon promises for prosperity that God made to Abram thousands of years ago. These are used as a pretext to justify all manner of behaviors which God clearly does not approve (murder, theft, covetousness, etc.) by the hypocrisy of ignoring these clear commands for the sake of achieving political ends. If God made the promises, he should be left to deliver on them WITHOUT our getting in the way. (After all, if he is God, why would he need us to help him?) So now we're talking about possible sanctions against Iran. In an interview Karl Vick yesterday, NPR broadcast a contention that Iran's nuclear program was first discovered three years ago, but that it had been going on in secret for 18 years. What I found interesting in this centers upon Karl Vick's admission that the Iranians, according to the provisions of treaties they've signed, have the full right to develop nuclear power. Yet Mr. Vick, who is a reporter for The Washington Post, consistently blended the concepts of nuclear power with nuclear weapons, as if the two were completely interchangeable. Canada has had nuclear power reactors for many years, but nobody worries that Canada is developing WMDs. I don't hear the same kind of concern about nuclear weapons up here that Karl Vick casually mixed in to his discussion with Melissa Block on NPR. One of the most frightening things about this kind of talk, is that once the non-thinking public begins to believe that nuclear power = nuclear weapons, we're easily maneuvered into thinking that the only solution to the potential threat lies in preventing nations like Iran (who are not "good" like us, after all) from building power plants at all costs. Mr. Vick pointed out, however, that the Iranians see this as "scientific apartheid", and that there is no "level playing field" among nations when it comes to nuclear power. Then, he launched into a comparison of the Iranian president with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez and "leftist president Morales" of Bolivia. He might as well have said that the Iranians are in league with the devil, given the prevailing attitude of most Americans to those particular leaders. Even though at the very end of the interview he admitted that Iran is talking about power, NOT nuclear weapons, the damage had already been done. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5159746 I was a little disappointed that Melissa Block didn't take her colleague to task over this. It seems like we're being duped again. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Zeke Yewdall wrote: > While he is wrong in his insistence that the holocaust (or the > millions of Jews murdered in Europe for the 1000 years before the > Holocaust) didn't happen, I think he does have a point. If europe > felt so bad about the holocaust, why did they foist their problem on > the middle east instead of dealing with it themselves? (and they > haven't dealt with it -- anti-semitism is still widespread there) I don't think anyone can seriously doubt that the Hebrew people have a historical link to the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. In some ways, the Europeanization of this issue began back when Pompey took over the region back in 60 BCE or so. (Please correct me if I'm wrong here!) After the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, the Jewish people HAD no homeland any more. So, in a sense, it IS a European problem. > This seems just as damning of the Europeans/americans as the Iranians > -- just send the Jews off to somewhere else, and we'll pay for them to > defend themselves so we can feel more moral about it, just so long as > they leave our countries. I'm not defending Iran here, but I don't > think they are the only anti-semitic ones playing on this stage. At > least they're being honest. I think you've brought up an excellent point. The anti-Semitism to which you refer still exists all over the world. It's convenient to think that we could move people we don't like "somewhere else", just as the Hitlerites originally thought they could solve their "problem" by exporting Jews, Gypsies and Slavs to Madagascar. The Palestinians, however, are also Semitic in origin, are they not? So in a sense, isn't the Israeli government being racist in its actions, too? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
jtcava wrote: >> Just this;The government of Israel does not espouse the total >> eradication of the Iranian people. If their treatment of the Palestinians is any indication, I'm not confident that you are correct. What a nation SAYS and what it actually DOES are two different things. While on the other hand Iran would probably use it's nukes to further the "cause" of Islam,mainly the destruction of the state of Israel. What evidence can you offer to support this contention? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Joe Street wrote: > Ok Guilty. Sorry about that. Yes these are reasons your nation (former > nation?) is worried. You're forgiven. I really like Canada, but I'm still an American. I can't imagine NOT being an American. Not all of us ascribe to the blind jingoism we're fed in the media and school systems. > I would still comment that one doesn't have to be > a Christian to have the good balanced outlook that you do. Of course not. There are many people in this forum (indeed, in the world at large) who do not ascribe to my faith, yet understand that we must look beyond personal gratification in order for us to sustain our existence as a species. Perhaps you're among them. On the other hand, there are many who CLAIM to be Christians who, by virtue of their attitudes and actions, deny the foundational teachings of Jesus Christ. They presume to act on God's behalf in terms of judgment and policy. THOSE people frighten me! Now, as this relates to nuclear war and Iran, the article that Keith posted earlier today by Mike Whitney might be dismissed as pacifist nonsense by someone who advocates violence as a means of problem solving. The concept that WE might somehow be at fault, that WE might be either misunderstanding the evidence, or deliberately manipulating it for a political end suggests nefarious intent on behalf of leaders who have robed themselves in white, claiming to "save the world" from itself. I have heard this from NeoCons who assume that any agitation for nonviolence, negotiation and peace represents some kind of pandering to evil, like Neville Chamberlin's famous "peace in our time" document that carried an aggressive, German chancellor's rather worthless signature. I hear a lot of harking back to that time, as if we're standing on the sidelines, watching some other nation try to take over the world. We don't want to hear that the enemy is staring at us whenever we look into the mirror, but the scriptures say that the devil masquerades as "an angel of light". It's a pretty thin disguise, as far as I'm concerned. Today Americans celebrate the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Like him, I have a dream. I dream of a peaceable kingdom. Yet, when I hear this incessant dragon talk advocating warfare as an instrument of foreign policy, I also dream of fire, mushroom clouds and darkness. I far prefer the good dream to the nightmare. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Joe Street wrote: > Any more serious than Isreal's possession of same for everyone else in > the area? No, and that part of my point. What exactly ARE we afraid of? > People in Iran aren't any less savvy than you are and if anyone thinks > so then I invite them to come and talk to some Iranian students studying > engineering at the University of Waterloo which is arguably one of the > world's notable engineering schools. Could it be that there are some > vestiges of cutural bias in your mind to assume that the intelligent > people of another society are more willing to end the world than our > trusted leaders? I think I'm not communicating clearly, Joe. It's clear to me that we have people on "our" side who are willing to walk down the path of the unthinkable, hence my remarks concerning "dragonspeak" on Sunday morning talk shows and the pulpits of anti-Christian churches all across North America. Given that we're all of the same species, it makes sense that there are people on "the other side" (whatever THAT is) who are like minded. I read the remarks of an "Islamist" spokesman in the Globe and Mail this morning, a man whose organization claimed credit for a car bomb that blew up among Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan. This man believed that killing Canadians represents the will of God. We have people on BOTH sides of the conflict who hold to this paradigm. That's the danger. > Oh I suppose thier countries could be run by someone > of less than stellar IQ if George Bush is any example. And it looks like Harper is going to get in up here as well. I was asking my sweetheart why she'd vote for a party represented by someone of his wit, but I didn't get a satisfactory answer . . . > So how come > Israel didn't launch in retaliation when Hussein was lobbing gas fitted > skud missiles and the patriots were flying here and there to little > effect (as is thier nature and all the other missile defence garbage in > the US arsenal). Was it not in thier interest? Was the wind going the > wrong way for the fallout? Or did they perhaps exercise restraint? At that time, what could they have done to Iraq that we weren't already doing? It didn't make any sense from a military or geo-strategic point of view for the Israelis to retaliate, and would have only served to fracture the Arab contribution to the liberation of Kuwait. (Which was a clever ploy on Mr. Hussein's part. I give him credit for being clever in some things.) In effect, Israel let US do the pummeling on their behalf, and Iraq received a far worse punishment during that conflict than Israel did by absorbing a few SCUD warheads. > And are you going to tell me that the Israelis are inherently more civilized > than the Persians? What nonsense! I'm trying to explain that we are ONE people, irrespective of our national identities. The Persians are no different than we are in their composition and intellect, only different in language, religion and culture. Those are minor things, really. > And while we are on the subject of civility and > destruction let's not forget who's nation is currently bombing the crap > out of the cradle of civilization at the moment hmmm? I'm a Christian BEFORE I'm an American, and I don't advocate violence. But my nation is NOT Christian, so you can't expect its leadership to behave in a "turn the other cheek" and "feed your enemies" kind of way. You posted a question concerning why the United States would worry about a nuclear capable Iran, and I offered several points for consideration. Please do not confuse my understanding of the pathology with advocacy of it. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Nuclear War against Iran
Joe Street wrote: > What's the big deal about Iran having nukes? That's a good question, and one worth considering carefully. I think the threat of Iran possessing nuclear weapons is serious for Israel, Iraq AND for the United States. As for what concerns Americans: 1. A nuclear Iran would force us to stop acting unilaterally in the Middle East, or at least, act with greater caution. 2. A nuclear Iran essentially eliminates the hegemony enjoyed by the US Navy in the littoral waters of the region. 3. A nuclear Iran increases the influence of that nation in a region, particularly among the Shia's in Iraq. 4. A nuclear Iran represents a credible threat against Israel, which may hasten or delay the onset of Dispensationalist "tribulation". 5. A nuclear Iran represents a potential threat to our access of crude oil. 6. A nuclear Iran will underscore the "righteous indignation" of the NeoCons, who will gleefully claim: "I told you so". 7. A nuclear Iran could not be prevented from proliferating the technology among other nations, as Pakistan and Korea have done. So, is there anything fundamentally wrong with any of this? What exactly are we afraid of? > Why shouldn't they have > them just like the others in the club? Who is to say "No you are not > mature enough to have these things" ?? Certainly not the US which has > actually used them on people. " Do as I say, not as I do!" LOL LOL > As long as people contuinue to invent and build weapons of terror, the > only chance for peace is when everybody has one and therefore has an > equal voice at the negotiating table. Things may actually get very > civilized when every small nation has the ability to destroy the world. I disagree. The words "civilized" and the concept of destroying the world should not be used in the same sentence! We are ONE people, and all of us share the fatal flaw that we are ruthlessly capable of acting in our own self interest. If we've used nuclear weapons in the conduct of warfare, I'm very confident we will do so again, especially if we feel we have no other option. People in Iran would likely feel the same way. Listening to the dragonspeak on Sunday morning talk shows yesterday confirms that we remain quite willing to put the entire world at risk in order to protect our "interests", just as some of the preachers on Sunday mornings claim that by doing so, we would be punishing the evil for their iniquity. And on the other side, the jihadis who think that killing with car bombs serves God's purpose will likely view the detonation of a nuclear device in the same manner. Until we change the heart of the human being, we remain at risk. The future is ours to either build or destroy. So, let's roll up our sleeves and let our hands be strong! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Spreading compost
Garth & Kim Travis wrote: > Greetings, > I am aware of manure spreaders, but I am talking about finished compost. Around here the farmers mix their manure with water and blast it onto their fields with great sprinklers that make the slurry look like green rain and foul the air with a noisome reek! I shovel all of my compost by hand, so I know that it's a LOT of hard work. (There's also a fair amount of straw in my compost, which doesn't break down very easily and would likely clog a spreader.) I wish I could offer more than encouragement to you in this. If you find a viable solution, please let us know. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] On the Iraq Election - Noam Chomsky interview
Keith Addison wrote: > http://www.zmag.org/ > > On the Iraq Election - Noam Chomsky interviewed by Andy Clark for > Radio Netherlands I find myself largely agreeing with the views of a "dissident intellectual" whose politics are reviled in my personal circles. The attacks leveled against Noam Chomsky are so vitriolic, it's hard to refute them. Sometimes he makes claims, such as the one about democracy being "forced" upon the Anglo-American coalition in Iraq, without direct support, and I find myself wondering where those concepts originate. (Having written this, just because I don't personally remember the events to which he refers doesn't mean that he is incorrect.) But there seems to be a two edged sword at work here. If, on the one hand, the United States withdraws its troops and leaves Iraq to the Iraqis, we face criticism for "abandoning" the country--turning tail and running. Should the overall chaos in the country, or any repression that ensues, escalate in our absence, we as Americans are held responsible. (This has been an accusation against our policy in Afghanistan, and of our lack of support for the Shi'ite uprising against Saddam in the early 1990's, the war in the Balkans, Lebanon during the Reagan years, Somalia and so forth . . . ) If, on the other hand, we leave our forces in place, we remain the foreign occupiers of another sovereign nation. Therefore, we're in a difficult position where we simply can't win, unless we can successfully impose a government friendly to our interests on the Iraqis. Given the early reports of polls in that country, it doesn't look like this is happening. The stupidity of going into Iraq in the first place becomes more evident every day. We did nothing in the Baltics, yet the people there solved their own problems with the Russians. We did nothing against China when they brutally repressed the democratic uprising there. We support dictatorships all over the planet, and complain bitterly against our democratically elected allies in Europe when they disagree with us. The NeoCons frequently criticize "liberals" for complaining about policy without offering any effective solutions. Nobody wants to talk about the real issues at the root of our foreign policy problems, namely, our incessant appetite for energy and our mindless support of Israel. If we devoted our wealth and power to developing domestic solutions to those two problems, we wouldn't have to be exerting our power to dominate the energy supplies in the Middle East. I don't consider myself a liberal, yet when I ask NeoCons to look at the root issues, I hear the same laments without any solutions that they complain about with "liberals" and foreign policy. So I find this dynamic at work. Conservative, business minded Americans don't want to seriously consider ANY energy policy that moves us away from our current energy consumption paradigm. Conservative, neoChristian Americans don't want to seriously consider ANY foreign policy that holds Israel accountable for its mistreatment of Arabs. What we end up with, then, is a smoke and mirrors game of polarization and blame laying that only serves to increase the misery of people overseas. The real problems remain to be solved. I think Noam Chomsky is right in claiming that only popular resistance will overcome these problems, yet we're faced with a HUGE propaganda industry that feeds people with information their itching ears want to hear. He likens these to the false prophets of ancient Israel. I have yet to hear a more compelling explanation. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Feliz Navidad, Merry Christmas
Appal Energy wrote: > Ba-a-h-h-h! Humbug!!! > > Humbug I tell you! Now back to work every last one of you. Those > Mal-Wart shelves have to be refilled before midnight! > > Hot porridge be damned!! Back to work I say! Truly, there is NO rest for the wicked! : - ) robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Feliz Navidad, Merry Christmas
Quimica Nova SA wrote: > Amigos, Friends > > Mis mejores deseos para que Uds. tengan una muy Feliz Navidad. Que el Niño > Jesus los bendiga y los haga muy felices, y sanos, y alegres y que tengan > mucho y buen trabajo, con toda su familia. > Hasta siempre. > Gracias, senor! May your life be filled with grace, peace, health and happiness in the coming year! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] inline fuel heater?
Joe Street wrote: > Anybody ever seen one of these things? They're available at Canadian Tire. Why not go and have a look at them? For me, it seems like a great way to crack a windshield. Besides, if the washer fluid between the device and the emitters gets frozen solid (as it sometimes does around here), what good would it do to push hot fluid behind it? As for a WVO heater, what's wrong with Veggie Therm? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
rom scar tissue building up after a tussle with a raccoon. She was suffering, so I had her euthanized last year. From what I've read, the ages you quote above seem to be the exception, rather than the rule. For instance, according to "messybeast.com": "In countries with good veterinary care, the average life-span of a neutered domestic cat (barring accidents) is considered to be 14 years old although there are signs that this may be increasing." http://www.messybeast.com/longevity.htm Now, we can't build a case for a DECLINE in longevity based upon the comparison of a few very OLD cats, with the average number of years a house cat will normally survive. (evidence that factory food production for our pets is responsible for the decline in pet longevity?) > > > NO .. SORRY, ONCE AGAIN, I'M HAVING TO DEPEND ON MEMORY OF THINGS I HAVE > READ SOMETIMES IN THE PAST. > > IN AND AROUND THE 70'S OR 80'S SOME EXPERT ON SOMETHING WROTE THAT THE > (HUMAN) LONGEVITY WOULD BEGIN TO DROP AFTER THE DEATHS OF THE MAJORITY OF > PEOPLE BORN PRIOR TO THE 1930(s) .. THE REASON GIVEN FOR THIS PREDICTION WAS > THAT FARMERS NO LONGER PUT BACK INTO THE SOIL WHAT THEY WERE TAKING OUT OF > IT AND THE SOIL WOULD BECOME BARREN. > > OUR PUBLISHED FIGURES ON LONGEVITY BEGAN TO DROP ABOUT 3 TO 5 YEARS AGO THAT > I NOTICED .. IT MAY HAVE BEGUN EARILER. > > WHEN MY MOTHER WAS BORN SHE PROBABLY NEVER RECEIVED A VACCINATION .. I > RECEIVED MAYBE A FEW .. MY MOTHER ACTUALLY TOOK ME TO MY SICK FRIENDS HOMES > WHEN THEY DEVELOPED MUMPS AND CHICKEN POX SO I WOULD GET THESE CHILDHOOD > DISEASES WHEN I WAS A CHILD INSTEAD OF WHEN I WAS AN ADULT BECAUSE THEY > COULD BE DANGEROUS DISEASES FOR AN ADULT. > > TODAY AN INFANT RECEIVES SOMETHING LIKE 22 VACCINATIONS BEFORE THEY ARE 2 > YEARS OF AGE .. WITH A WHOLE BUNCH MORE BEFORE THEY GO TO SCHOOL. I'm old enough to remember polio. My children have been vaccinated. > .. SO THE ANSWER IS MORE LIKE DEAD FOOD, OVER VACCINATIONS, BEING SURROUNDED > BY ALL KINDS OF CHEMICALS IN THE FORMS OF HOUSEHOLD CLEANERS, AIR > FRESHENERS, AND THE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS WHO ONLY KNOW HOW TO TREAT > SYMPTOMS AND DON'T SEEM TO HAVE A CLUE AS TO HOW TO GO ABOUT HEALING > ANYTHING. .. STRESS AROUND COMPETITION TO SUCCEED .. AND JUST BEING ABLE TO > DIE WITH THE MOST TOYS .. AND WIN THIS GAME!! Environmental insult is a key factor in the development of diseases that eventually result in our mortality. However, every study I've ever read points to an INCREASE in longevity since the Industrial Revolution. Most of the gains in recent decades have resulted from a decrease in infant mortality, a significant factor which may have skewed the data somewhat. I haven't found anything to support your claim, however. > IT ISN'T JUST A SHORTER LIFE SPAN FOR OUR PETS .. IT'S FOR US ALSO. I'm understanding this, but I'm not seeing any evidence that supports your view. So, is this belief of yours undergirded by data? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
Marylynn Schmidt wrote: > Rendering places whole animals and animal parts into a big grinding machine > that actually grinds until it's liquid .. a big pile of brown stinking > liquid that smells for miles and miles around a rendering plant. > > Companies buy this stinking liquid .. they make soap (look at those cute > little wrapped bars of soap in the bathroom the next time you stay in a > hotel), fertilizer, animal feed ..PET FOOD .. personal cosmetic products. Most of us here oppose the factory food production paradigm. I hadn't thought of how this applies to pet food and appreciate the insight you've brought into this discussion. > If a pet food states pure beef and organic vegetables .. it would be > impossible to determine if it were pure beef .. the rendering run may have > been 1000 head of cows .. you would have the whole body with or without some > hides, hooves, destroyed kidney and livers, cancerous tissue, sores .. it > all goes into the same pot. In the wild, most herd ungulates can easily outrun their predators. Occasionally, chance and circumstance will lead to a healthy adult specimen being hunted down, but more often, it's the sickly, the weak, the old and the young who succumb to predation. Old and weak animals culled from the herd in this manner keeps the population in check and often prevents mass starvation during the winter months when food is scarce. In the wild, therefore, sickly and weak animals provide food for predators. The relative shortness of a prey animal's intestine serves to limit exposure to biomagnified toxins that occur naturally in the environment. (I'm not referring to the industrial nasties that WE put into the ecosystem.) A predator eats and eliminates, allowing detritus organisms to break down problematic disease and toxin residues, as they have done for however many billion years they've been on the earth. So, to play devil's advocate (or maybe God's advocate, depending on your point of view) for a moment: What would be the problem with a predatory animal that happens to be my pet eating the rendered residue of a sickly bovine, if in the wild, that same creature (that is, the ungulate) would most likely succumb to predation anyway? > The reason you see Science Diet sold in so many Veterinarian offices is > because Science Diet is the one who actually provides the money to the vet > school to have a course of animal nutrition. We face a related problem in the pharmaceutical industry, where education on treatment regimens are often provided by companies who sell therapeutic drugs. I've never bought Science Diet at a vet. > The pet food industry has been around for less than 100 years. > > Our dogs and cats have been around for millions of years. And that's part of my point. During that time, dogs and cats have been, by design and necessity, less picky about what they eat than we tend to be. > When I was born, my grandfather had a hunting dog that was about three or > four years old .. that dog died when I was 15 .. and unless through accident > .. most of the dogs live to quite an advanced age. I've heard similar stories. Large dogs tend to have a longer life span than small cats, do they not? Seventeen years is a LONG time for an outdoor cat to live. > Today 7 and 10 is considered time to start watching for cancer and/or liver > failure to begin and it's so unusual to hear of a big dog living to 12 and > 14 Am I understanding correctly, based upon the outline of your argument, that this constitutes evidence that factory food production for our pets is responsible for the decline in pet longevity? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
bob allen wrote: > at no small cost I might add. But is the extra cost (science diet) > justified? I've never known a cat to live as long as she did (I got her when she was a little over a year old, and she lived with me for 16 years). A 9 kilo bag of Science Diet lasts about a month and a half (feeding two animals) and costs a little over $30 on sale. Maybe I'm just affluent enough that this doesn't seem like any big deal. Perhaps you're right about the extra cost not being justifiable, given the lack of empirical data concerning longevity and health benefits, but I can't see how feeding a cat tuna from a can would be any cheaper. I once knew a woman who fed her two Manx cats nothing but horse meat, and THAT seemed expensive to me! My cats also eat "leftover" meat from our table. My sweetheart likes fresh lamb (which smells absolutely disgusting to me!) because it was a part of her diet growing up, but nobody else in the family will eat it. The cats get leftover turkey at Thanksgiving and any fish that's been in the refrigerator long enough to turn the nose of a human away. Mostly, though, they eat Science Diet. They're healthy, they're active and they seem content. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
Garth & Kim Travis wrote: > The question I have is about the theory of tuna and cats. The theory is > that there is an excess amount of ash in tuna and that it can cause renal > failure in middle aged cats. It is not suppose to make any difference if > it was canned or fresh. Have you ever heard of this and is it true? My > cats favorite food is tuna, so I am very worried. I feed my cats "Science Diet". Before getting the two I now own, my last kitty, a faithful and affectionate companion for her whole life, lived 16 years. She was an outdoor cat who tangled with rattlesnakes, raccoons and poisoned mice! The two I have now are very young, but they thrive on this kind of commercial cat food. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Flexfuel converter at abcesso.com
Dave Roderick wrote: > Is there anyone on this list that knows anything about the flex > converter at the web site http://www.abcesso.com/ It's been discussed here before. I'm confident that a check of the archives will yield positive results for you. > in reading the abcesso web site this converter does > not automatically detect the ethanol to gas mixture and adjust the > timing, pulse width and the like automatically. That's correct. The acesso device does NOT impact timing at all--only the fuel injection pulse. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Diesel pick-ups in Canada
steve reimer wrote: > Any suggestions on where I can find a small to mid sized diesel pick-up > truck in Ontario, Canada? In the truck trader, I only found 2 or 3 > older trucks with over 300 000km. Good luck, Steve! Nobody has made a small or mid sized diesel for sale in North America for a LONG time. If you want a newer one that hasn't been driven into the ground, you'll have to import one of those lovely diesel Rangers from Mexico. (I'd love to get one myself!) Otherwise, you're stuck with a 3 / 4 to full ton beast with a big block diesel, like the GM 6.2 / 6.5, Duramax, Dodge Cummins (those are a little over 5 liters in displacement, I believe), or the Ford Powerstroke. Expect to pay a LOT of money for a full sized diesel. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Jason and Katie wrote: > you guys care to know the real kicker? the systems that i looked up use KOH > in the reaction chambers to produce the hydrogen, not solely water. Why is that a "real kicker"? The KOH serves to lower the electrical resistance of the water. Nafion membranes do the same thing WITHOUT electrolyte, but they are fragile and expensive. Electrolysis of water using a base electrolyte will produce hydrogen and oxygen. Normally, the oxygen is simply vented to the atmosphere, but it could be stored and compressed for later use. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Greg and April wrote: > Robert, > > Do you plan any experiments in the near future? > > Greg H. Things are very slow with my business right now, so I'm in "let's not spend any money" mode. I've been having a chronic problem with bogging and stalling off idle with my truck (which otherwise runs very well) because its mass airflow engine management system doesn't like the long distance air has to travel between the MAF unit, the blower, intercooler and finally into the engine. (It's got nearly three meters to go.) So the computer senses incoming air and shoots a longer pulse at the injectors, but the air hasn't reached the engine yet. The O2 sensor picks up on the rich mixture, the computer shortens the injector pulse, but by this time the air has finally passed the intake valve. Now we have a sudden lean condition, and the engine will stall. It only happens when the throttle is snapped open, as when accelerating after a complete stop, or trying to go uphill from a stop. I really need to dump the factory computer and go to a speed density system. This would enable me to custom tailor my fuel map as well, enabling me to run ethanol (if I can get the permitting issues resolved) or some other kind of fuel. One of the nice things about supplemental hydrogen injection, however, is that I would be able to run very low proof ethanol, turpenes or maybe even vegetable oil as the primary fuel because hydrogen will burn at very lean mixtures, acting as an accelerant. For a few thousand bucks I'm quite confident that I could figure out how to run my truck on just about any flammable liquid, and make it run WELL. People thought I was a little bit touched under the skull when I first started talking about supercharging my Ranger, but nobody laughs at me now! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Novak's Do-It-Yourself Water Injection System
Andre de Jager wrote: > Hi Guys > > I would like to install this in a 73 Chevy 4.1 Straight 6 with a Dual > Stage Double Barrel Weber Carburettor. > (I live in Africa and emission control is still getting here). It should work well on that engine. The water injection system doesn't work so well on fuel injected engines that run a mass airflow sensor. > > The only Vacuum line I have is it the Vacuum Advance Line. > > Now if I splice into this, do I put the Valve between the T Piece and > the Bottle or between the T Piece and the Carburettor (as shown in the > Sketch).. It won't matter, as the vacuum advance only works when there is engine vacuum present. Just make sure the valve is installed in the correct position. > > Seems to me to make more sense to put it between the T Piece and the > Carburettor, so I can Limit the Air Bubbles with out effecting the > Vacuum Advance. The water vapor will not enter your vacuum advance canister. It will get sucked into the engine. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Kurt Nolte wrote: > This site is setting of nine thousand kinds of alarm bells in my head. A good thing! I'd stay away from those people . . . robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Hydrogen Injection for Class 8 Trucks
bob allen wrote:
> Howdy Robert, I'll take my usual role as a skeptic again. I still have
> heard little more than testimonial evidence.
A wise position, sir. In your field such skepticism is appropriate.
> Could it be that the truckers are unconsciously unwilling to admit that
> they wasted their money on the gizmo?
Yes, this is possible, even likely. I've seen a similar effect
elsewhere. However, the effectiveness of supplemental hydrogen
injection has been researched and documented by researchers who have
no financial interest in a particular product. Here's an example:
* David J. Timoney, Jan-Roger Linna (Arthur D. Little Inc., USA) and
Robert P. Wilson (Arthur D. Little Inc.), "Some Measured and
Simulated Effects of Supplemental Hydrogen in a Gasoline Engine",
Proceedings of Programme Track: Electric, Hybrid, Fuel Cell and
Alternative Fuel Vehicles, 31st ISATA Automotive & Transport
Technology Conference, Dublin, September 25-27, 2000, pp 97-104.
I found the beginnings of another paper entitled: "Simulation of Gas
Flows, Combustion and Pollutant Formation in Spark Ignition Engines
with Supplemental Hydrogen Fuelling" by Brian Tapley and David Timoney
in the Department of Mechanical Engineering, University College
Dublin. To read the first page of this paper, go to page 15 of the
following document:
http://www.issec.ie/downloads/ISSEC2002.pdf
David J. Timoney seems to be deeply involved in this kind of research:
* David J. Timoney, and Robert P. Wilson (Arthur D. Little
Inc.,
USA), “Use of Supplemental Hydrogen in Spark Ignition Engines:
Simulation of Impact on Performance & Emissions”. Paper 98EL016,
31st ISATA International Conference, Dusseldorf, Germany, 2nd-5th
June, 1998.
Roy McAlister of the American Hydrogen Association is an honest man
whom I have met and can vouch for. He's featured on this DVD of
hydrogen conversions, and among the topics covered is what they call
"hydrogen boost". You can download an mp3 file here:
http://www.knowledgepublications.com/google_hydrogen_2.htm
> if the unit is guaranteed to boost efficiency by ten per cent, what is
> wrong with the unit on the truck crossing the cascades?
That's an excellent question. I know the road well. Years ago I
lived in a town called Summerland (about three hours from here, on the
other side of that same mountain range) and my in-laws lived in a
Vancouver suburb known as Langley. My wife and I drove between these
two places at least once a month, so I have a lot of experience with
that particular route. Crossing the Cascades involves climbing and
descending several long, steep grades. Weather conditions and the
heaviness of the driver's foot seriously impact fuel economy, even in
a car.
A fully loaded tractor / trailer combination can experience a great
degree of variability in fuel economy, depending upon driving
technique. It's possible that this particular driver is more
concerned about pulling power going uphill than he is about fuel
economy and drives accordingly. It's also possible that the repair
shop owner is telling me this to make the product he installs sound
more realistic to a skeptic. The unit might be malfunctioning, too.
In brief, several possibilities exist to explain the range of fuel
economy improvement.
> An increase of
> 2% on about 6 mpgs is only 0.12 mpgs increase. Can that difference
> really be observed in an over the road rig with all the variables
> involved?
I asked that question too. He's had the unit installed for well over
a year and makes the same trip to and from Princeton at least twice
per day. The 2% increase represents an average reduction in fuel
consumption over that time. I'm only reporting to you what the repair
shop owner told me, but I appreciate your desire to uncover truth.
> I am not saying that fraud is involved here, but I do think
> self-deception should be given serious consideration as an explanation
> for the purported power/efficiency gain where none may exist.
This is why reading through the published research on the principle
of supplemental hydrogen injection is a vital part of the learning
process. Scientists are not supposed to have a vested interest in a
particular technology. Keith has outlined areas of concern for us in
the past, but in this particular case, I don't see a link between the
researchers who've verified the effectiveness of supplemental H2
injection and the product itself.
But there is so much nonsense affiliated with hydrogen being promoted
today, the need to sift fact from fiction is critical.
robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Hydrogen Injection for Class 8 Trucks
Greg and April wrote: > This makes allot more sense. I'm glad you think so. I'm happy to help clear up any confusion and separate fact from hype. Long ago, I was very interested in hydrogen as an energy carrier, but its appeal has lessened significantly over time. Part of that stems from the hysteria drummed up by nefarious "advocates" who use the high tech "gloss" of hydrogen to cover money making scams. > > #1I suspect that the stainless steel cell may be one of the electrodes. The electrodes ARE stainless steel. Overvoltage problems result, which is why they are running the unit at a little over 2 volts. Current densities for commercial electrolysis applications are typically 1 amp per square inch of electrode area, and with this type of arrangement it's very hard to get better than 50% efficiency out of the appliance. > #5I wonder if it makes a difference if the 100 hours at 15 mph or at 75 > mph? It won't. The unit is not tied into the onboard fuel injection management computer. From what I understand, it operates in a "steady state" mode. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Hydrogen Injection for Class 8 Trucks
Ken Provost wrote: > You're too modest -- I for one always make a point to > check out all your postings. Perhaps you refer to the > fact that many of your messages are of a literary or > philosophical bent, as opposed to purely technological. > This is perfectly appropriate and needs no apologies. Thank you, Ken. Your kindness is appreciated! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Hydrogen Injection for Class 8 Trucks
Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote: > > Hi Robert, > Thanks a lot for giving us all the details on this device You're welcome. It's nice that I can actually contribute useful info here once in awhile. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Supplemental Hydrogen Injection for Class 8 Trucks
Ok everyone, I went to Hodgson Heavy Duty this afternoon to inquire about the supplemental hydrogen injection unit. Here are the pertinent facts: 1. The unit consists of a single, enclosed cell made of stainless steel. I don't know what they're using for electrode or separator material. 2. Voltage from the truck's charging circuit is stepped down and amperage increased. The actual unit runs about 2 volts, with current densities a little over 60 amps. 3. The cell contains an electric heater at the bottom, which is activated by a sensor ONLY when the truck's engine is running. The unit is designed for freezing weather and will heat up sufficiently for full function within two hours, if it's been frozen solid. Most truckers leave their engines running in cold weather, however, so this apparently isn't much of a problem. 4. H2 and O2 are injected together, at 60 psi on the pressure side of the intake, downstream from the turbo. When the engine is shut off, all gases are purged from the system for safety. 5. The water reservoir must be recharged at about 100 hours of service. Electrolyte is never replenished. 6. The unit is guaranteed to increase fuel economy by at least 10%. Larry Hodgson says that four of his regular customers have the supplemental hydrogen unit installed, and they report gains in power and fuel economy. (He's installed many of these, but not all customers are REGULAR customers.) When the unit has a problem, he says the drivers can tell right away that it isn't working because there's a notable loss of power. 7. One customer, who hauls Super B train loads of wood chips to and from a mill over the Cascades, reports only a 2% fuel economy gain because of the topography of his run. This trucker burns over $12 000 in fuel every month, saving about $250. At that rate of return, the unit will not pay for itself (it runs about $15 000 CDN) before the lease on the truck runs out. Larry Hodgson reports that this guy remains happy with the electrolyzer, however, because the increased power helps him climb the nightmare grades between here and there. 8. Larry Hodgson says the company is reputable and stands behind their product. Now, he's got a VERY busy shop. The Lickman Road interchange, where his truck shop is located, is the third busiest commercial intersection in Canada. There are trucks and trailers lined up to get into Hodgson Heavy Duty, and having worked in that industry myself, I don't think a repair shop owner would risk the reputation of his business on a product that didn't perform as advertised; I know the profit / loss margins are very narrow in the repair business. He was very helpful and talked to me for over twenty minutes. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Ken Riznyk wrote: > Has anyone ever done electrolysis. Yes, many times! > Additionally you need to add an electrolyte > to the distilled water usually sulfuric acid. Where is > the truck driver going to get distilled water and > sulfuric acid on the road. The electrolyte can be a base, or even a salt. Most often, I've used KOH, but NaOH will work too. The electrolyte is not "consumed" in the process in the same sense that water is, so maintaining appropriate electrolyte balance is not difficult. Additionally, an electrolyzer (or fuel cell) can be made with a Nafion membrane, (sulfonated tetrafluorethylene copolymer) a plastic sort of material that serves as an ion exchange medium. If the separator membranes are made of Nafion there is no need for electrolyte. > In a small FAQ sidebar on the HFI website they say that the increase > in fuel economy is due to the H2 cleaning out carbon > deposits in the engine, not from increased > combustibility. If this is true wouldn't it be easier > and cheaper to add one of those off the shelf products > that claims to blow out your carbon? I think you're misunderstanding something here, Ken. This is a quote from the site: "Over time, the cylinders become carbon coated causing engines to lose performance. In addition to fuel economy and environmental benefits, the hydrogen produced by the HFI unit will clean the inside of the engine of these carbon deposits and restore performance characteristics. The cleansing process, referred to as the purge cycle, varies with engine age, displacement, and type of use (i.e. city driving vs. highway and number of miles travelled.) Over this time period fuel economy will increase gradually. The vehicle will reach its peak fuel economy performance typically within 0 to 9 months, depending primarily on the type of vehicle, kilometers driven, route and load characteristics.Results indicate fuel economy increases of at least 10% and up to 40% with the use of the HFI unit." Hmmm . . . A 40% fuel economy increase? Maybe if we measured fuel economy on a downhill run with a tail wind . . . Also, from their site: "Our patented process designed and manufactured here in Ontario, produces hydrogen on demand and injects it into the engine's air intake. This results in a more complete combustion of gases, reducing harmful emissions, with the added benefit of improved fuel efficiency and engine power." There is nothing in that particular statement I would disagree with. Now, they say it requires 15 amps of electricity, which, for a truck isn't a whole lot of power. (Given that the average Class 8 alternator produces 80 amps at 1 800 rpm.) At 14 volts, this works out to 210 watt hours of electricity. To give you an idea of how much hydrogen this can produce, a kilogram of hydrogen (roughly equal in energy to a gallon of gasoline) requires 31.6 kWh of electricity to evolve from water at 100% efficiency. Given that this system is clearly operating ABOVE thermoneutral voltage (likely at a little over 2 volts per cell), it's probably producing H2 at around 50% efficiency. In other words, the device injects roughly .03 kilograms of hydrogen per HOUR of operation. That's not a lot of gas. I remain skeptical. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Darryl McMahon wrote: > I'm as much a hydrogen skeptic as anyone, but I would like to see > someone investigate this further. The company is in Bowmanville, ON. > I'm about 400 km away. I know there are list members closer than that. > Anyone up for a visit to check them out. One of the local truck repair shops is on the dealer / installer list. The shop is located across the street from where I take my son to catch the school bus in the morning. I can stop there and inquire. Given that I have some knowledge and experience with this sort of thing, I'll see what I can learn. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Joe Street wrote: > But don't those heavy trucks use two stroke diesels? I thought the > serious big diesels were always running on a two stroke cycle? No. The big 10 liter CATs, Cummins, Detroits and Volvos in modern Class 8 trucks are 4 stroke turbo diesels. I used to run a truck / trailer repair shop for my father-in-law, and those engines are very impressive for what they do. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
William Adams wrote: > David, > > Thanks for the correction of air intake. Agreed, it would be good to look at > the beast. Can the anecdotes can be believed ? And, is the concept for real? The concept of supplemental hydrogen injection IS a valid one. Whether or not this can be accomplished with any real gains in power and fuel economy using an onboard electrolyzer makes me very skeptical. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] I am Not A Christian-was This isn't the real America, by JC
Appal Energy wrote: > Robert, > > All this has been with tongue in cheek with a bit of a rueful grin, > simply pointing to the hypocrisy of professed "leaders," showing that > they are unfit for positions of leadership if only due to the > broad(ening) chasm between their professions and reality. Can I say "amen" to that? > > I'm not going to argue whether there is or isn't a god or multiple gods, > much less whether God is masculine or feminine. Nor would I want you to . . . (Though it might be an interesting discussion.) > Just stating that their > actions belie their words. How true! "Not everyone who says to me: 'Lord, Lord' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do the will of my Father." It's clearly God's will to look after widows, fatherless children and the poor. (In the words of Isaiah: "Maintain justice. Do what is right!") The connection between these actions and bombing families into oblivion escapes me, and I like to think of myself as a reasonably intelligent person . . . robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] I am Not A Christian-was This isn't the real America, by JC
Appal Energy wrote: > Oh, I don't know about that Robert. > > So, we have the "tough love" Jesus who would assassinate national > leaders, torture unknown "enemies" and drop bombs on entire civilian > populations in order to bring them closer to no, not god..., > westernized democracy. That alone should be enough to convince you and anyone who is serious that people who advocate such actions are NOT Christians. It's similar to being pregnant, in that Christianity is an "either / or" proposition. Follow Christ, or follow the world. You can tell who these people are following by their deeds and attitudes. > Then we have the historical Jesus who would let each individual's heart > convict him or herself. > As both are worlds apart, they either must be two separate deities or > Jesus was a schizophrenic who managed to pull the wool over everyone's > eyes for the past two millenia > > But that latter possibility can't really be considered in all honesty, > now can it? (?ti nac rO) > > Support of the former premise comes from the Jerry Falwells, Pat > Robertsons, James Dobsons and George Bushs of the world who were > obviously granted their authority by God. But when the dots are > connected amongst these gurus, it becomes pretty obvious that their god > or their Jesus isn't the one out of the New King James version. Here's a possibility that you haven't considered: The leaders you've outlined above are controlled by satanic forces using the cloak of religion to deceive their followers. This kind of thing has been going on as long as religion has existed! Jesus himself had pretty harsh words for hypocrites like them. > > Given the common belief that God makes no mistakes and inevitably cannot > be wrong, then their god surely must exist because he or she put them in > these positions of power - surely to do his or her work. And given that > everyone already knows that a god of compassion has been in existence > since time began, the logical conclusion is that there must be two gods > - their god and everyone else's. > > So let's be honest Robert. Since we all know that God is "in control," > then let's stop trying to find excuses and assessing blame against what > some would like to call conniving, manipulative, deceiving humans under > the spell of evil powers for what is obviously the work of at least one > of two gods. I think we are agreeing on the same thing from two differing perspectives, Todd. (This is often the case between you and I.) I don't excuse the nefarious behavior of pseudo-Christians--people who claim God's name yet deny his transforming power--it disgusts me as much as it does you. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] I am Not A Christian-was This isn't the real America, by JC
Appal Energy wrote: > Robert, > > Well, actually, it isn't supposed to be a "Christian" country. And it's > supposed to not be that by design. The Constitution specifically prohibits the establishment of religion, so the whole debate in R^3 circles about dominion and the United States functioning as an agent of God on earth is not only ludicrous, it's moot. > As for what is Christendom and what isn't? It becomes apparent that there are > two Christs, at least if persons professing Christianity are any indicator. That's a pretty unreliable standard, Todd. I prefer to examine the evidence of attitude and behavior and make a judgment accordingly. Being a Christian involves self sacrifice and love. The self serving, hateful attitudes trumpeted as "Christian" are, quite simply, anti-Christian. > But then again, to paraphrase a great thinker from the age of > "enlightenment," "I think. Therefore I could be wrong." : ) !!! > We would serve ourselves very well if we (as in "all") returned to that place > with some frequency in the pursuit of social order, rather than letting a > select few dismantle the fabric of what could be a perfectly good country > evidencing continual improvement rather increasing decay. On this we agree. The R^3 crowd has been indoctrinated to believe that they are carrying out the "will of God" in imposing their view of morality on the rest of us. You and I stand shoulder to shoulder in our opposition to them. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Simon Fowler MADUR-SALES wrote: > So, somebody else knows how to get something for nothing. Why won't they > tell me how they do it? In my world, the energy to split the molecules > on the go comes from the alternator, which gets its power from the fuel > via the engine. How come it never works for me, whe nso many other > people seem capable of breaking all the so-called laws of thermodyamics? This process does not violate thermodynamics, and may POSSIBLY result in a small improvement in overall efficiency. A minor improvement in thermal efficiency using a 5% hydrogen supplement has been documented by scientists as renown as Sir Harry Ricardo. This is because hydrogen acts to speed up combustion, and gases that would otherwise continue to expand through the engine's exhaust port and manifold are "hurried" into producing work while still in the chamber. Now, whether or not this results in a net efficiency gain depends on how efficient the onboard electrolytic device happens to be. I have built several electrolyzers and I'm skeptical, particularly when I read the hype written into this article. A ten liter truck engine inhales an AWFUL lot of air, particularly under boost, so that electrolyzer would have to put out a fairly significant volume of hydrogen to make a difference. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Power Compost!
Darryl McMahon wrote:
> Robert,
> I think the electric motor is the way to go.
I'm leaning that direction. With electricity remaining at 6 cents
per kWh, it's likely cheaper too!
> If you want a chipper / shredder, there's this:
> http://www.electricfencecompany.com/too-5101.html
For $775? Yikes! The shredder I got from my friend was free.
> One of the electric tractor guys has a converted Amerind MacKissic
> Mighty Mac chipper shredder. 9 hp gasoline engine replaced with a 1.3
> hp 36-volt DC series motor. Says it works well. Another has reported
> using a 240-volt AC 5 hp motor on a conversion, and is very satisfied
> with it.
The 3 horsepower Briggs is probably only 3 horsepower at 3 600
rpm--in other words, flat out! I had to run it like this for the corn
and sunflower stalks or else it would bog. I've seen electric motors
at Princess Auto (and they have a 1 hp model on sale for $140 right
now.), but I imagine I could pull a decent one out of a washing
machine if I really scrounged around.
> DC probably means lugging batteries, but AC usually means being close to
> an outlet.
That's not a problem here.
> Outdoor household 240 volt outlets aren't that common in
> Canada in my experience.
I have provision for 240 service near my garage door. The
electrician put that in for me when we built the house, just in case I
wanted to put in a gas compressor for my truck.
> Personally, I'd likely go with the beefiest
> 120 volt AC motor I could find. 20 amps at 120 volts is 2400 watts, or
> over 3 hp. With the advantage of electric torque, that might well be
> sufficient.
Yeah, I would think so. Anything bigger than a centimeter in
diameter won't be going into the shredder, anyway.
>You probably need to talk to a motor shop or some other
> industrial motor application shop to find motors like this, not a
> regular household item.
I know just the place!
>Perhaps the motor from an electric snowblower -
> they're about torque and working on a regular household outlet.
We don't have snow blowers out here. We don't get enough snow to
make it worthwhile. Up in Terrace, however, nearly everyone owns one
of those things.
> A motor rated at 3,000 to 3,600 RPM is probably best for matching to the
> existing gearing.
Given that this is the operating rpm for the gas engine, I'd say
you're right. Thanks for your advice, Darryl!
robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca
Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
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