Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Hallo Bob, Thursday, 02 November, 2006, 12:41:43, you wrote: ba Howdy Gustl ...snip... It's worse than that Joe. He demands data on the efficacy of homeopathic products stating that the work to falsify homeopathy has been done but provides zero data to falsify homeopathy as a legitimate method of treatment. ba so your saying that because I can't prove that it doesn't work, means ba that it does? If your reading comprehension leads you to that kind of conclusion from my words above then it is small wonder you are still here bickering. But then I don't think that's what's going on. I think you just don't care about anything but winning an argument regardless of whether others may be right or wrong. Personality flaw which makes for a dishonest intellect. You would make a good scientist for the tobacco companies. That bit of mine means that you demand data of others to prove their claim for which they have only testimonials because the scientific community has dismissed their claims out of hand without using the scientific method while at the same time you verbally sneer at them while you pronounce they are wrong without providing them the exact data you demand which would falsify their claims. If you demand data to prove something you must provide data to disprove that thing. If testimonials are not sufficient proof without experimentation then scientific opinion without experimentation is not sufficient. And concerning that bit of yours below. I am old enough to remember when it was a scientific FACT that there was nothing smaller than the atom, but then along came an whole new breed of microscopes and, gee whiz, it seems that there are particles smaller than the atom. You may hypothesize that there is nothing left but any proofs you may have may be short lived because of the limitations of science and the accompanying technology. Like the microscope we may not yet have instrumentation sensitive enough to accurately measure such miniscule amounts. And, if it were you doing the measuring I would be skeptical at any rate given your propensity to misdirect, dodge and weave, twist words, etc. And finally, again, I have no investment in homeopathy, don't use the remedies and am skeptical enough myself to not spend my money on them. But, I do have an investment in fair, honest and accurate discourse and debate. The folks speaking for homeopathy have been using testimonial evidence which is only that and nothing more, testimonial evidence and that seems to satisfy them which is all well and good. You do not seem to be satisfied with saying, Well, I don't believe that and it hasn't been scientifically proven. and letting it go at that, but demand satisfaction from them in the form of experimental data from experiments which have apparently not been done to affirm the efficacy of homeopathic medicine while simultaneously exempting yourself from presenting experimental data falsifying homeopathy by citing current scientific theory. Sorry, that doesn't wash. Ask Einstein. Everything isn't readily apparent. You have your beliefs and they have theirs. Ego shouldn't have a place in the debate on either side of the question. Happy Happy, Gustl ba here is what I can prove: the dilutions employed in homeopathy are ba such that there is nothing left of the agent (the duck liver for ba example) in the final product. Logic alone would suggest then that ba the duck liver has no effect on the outcome of the use of the ba product, unless you accept that the water remembered the duck ba liver, and this was transfered to the filler in the capsule taken. ba One, I would think, has to suspend any connection to reality to ba believe that the water remembers what was in it. ba toodles -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
richard tandiono supardi wrote: *scratch head* (Whatever effect a homeopathic nostrum does must be occuring via a placebo effect, as it can't be due to chemical which is no longer there) -I'm just curious, How do u know it's no longer there? simple math, using the duck liver as an example: the initial concentration is 35 gm/100 ml. this is diluted 100 fold , 200 times resulting in a concentration then 35gm/10 ^400 . A single hydrogen atom has a mass of 1.66 10^ -24 . The final concentration is 35 10^-400. Hence to find a single atom of hydrogen (from the duck liver) you would have to have a volume of 10^396 ml, which is a volume I haven't calculated but bet much greater that the volume of our solar system. (That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid) (so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something?) -maybe because we lack information? or lacking prerequisite knowledge? :D that is what I am trying do. Provide the information so that people realize what homeopathy is. About data. It's true that having data is better than not. But I think it depends on the nature of the data itself. The problem with data is that it's connected directly to the observers' abilities+knowledge. So there's always ? variables that the data don't cover, hence the data could be inaccurate or even misleading. (So what you are saying that because I can't prove that it doesnt work, means that it does?) - Nope, it's just mean it could work ^_^. No--+--Yes Advice: Relax dont need to get personal on this. It's just discussion. Note: Sry if what I wrote is far off from the discussion, I dont understand most of what u guys talking about here hehe. I'm confused why I read this lot in Biofuel group discussion.. am i missing something? :S Have a nice day, Rick From: /Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Reply-To: /biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ To: /biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Subject: /Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)/ Date: /Thu, 02 Nov 2006 16:49:11 +/ PLACEBO EFFECT .. ANIMALS/PLACEBO EFFECT .. ANIMALS / PLACEBO EFFECT .. ANIMALS Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 10:24:19 -0600 Joe Street wrote: ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? the mere expectation of an outcome can bring on the outcome. that is what the placebo effect is all about, and why it is necessary to do double blind , placebo controlled testing for efficacy. What ever effect a homeopathic nostrum does must be occurring via a placebo effect, as it can't be due to the chemical which is no longer there. Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
richard tandiono supardi wrote: (I know, I'm a firm believer in physical reality, and thats where I get in trouble with those who accept supernatural explanations of natural phenomena.) -That's probably because some people are open-minded. By saying impossible, we limit our perception on things and deny any other possibilities. Let's face it, we dont know much about this world; What we see, it's limited to our perception. Ages ago, walking on the moon = impossible! but now = oh okay, big deal. Question: What's considered physical reality? what I can measure Where's the limit? the sensitivity of my equiptment Good day, Rick From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 12:24:26 -0500 bob allen wrote: Joe Street wrote: ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? the mere expectation of an outcome can bring on the outcome. So you are admitting that the mind is a part of reality and not just a part but a part which has substantial power to effect an outcome. But where is the evidence of the mind? I don't know of any scientific experiment which has detected it. You can cross section any lobe of my brain and I guarantee you will not find any trace of my mind. It would seem then from a scientific, hard evidence perspective that the mind does not have a physical reality. And yet it has a very real power to affect reality. Hmm. You said in a previous post: I know, I'm a firm believer in physical reality, and thats where I get in trouble with those who accept supernatural explanations of natural phenomena. But you believe the placebo effect is real. I think that's called a circular argument isn't it? Joe that is what the placebo effect is all about, and why it is necessary to do double blind , placebo controlled testing for efficacy. What ever effect a homeopathic nostrum does must be occurring via a placebo effect, as it can't be due to the chemical which is no longer there. Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful
there Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying
that there is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3
times) ( is that like tapping the heels of your shoes three
times?.lol) well then how can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or
otherwise?
Joe
bob allen wrote:
Kirk McLoren wrote:
In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and
with no adverse side effects/toxicology.
checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm.
In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation
produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic.
actually it can be. see above
More than can be said of many pharma nostrums.
Kirk
*/bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:
D. Mindock wrote:
Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your
quackwatch
routine.
Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices
is silly of
me to
ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or "science".
I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our
positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and
you accept testimony.
You have
your
thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science
is only a
method, a tool,
agreeed
to get something believed to have a chance of being true to
be
verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the
hypothesis in
the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite
some time.
no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not
homeopathy.
That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid.
so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do
something?
Science
is merely a method.
agreed
Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that.
who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense.
But if
you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who
apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that
silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this
works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.?
Peace and light, D. Mindock
- Original Message -
From: "bob allen"
To:
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel]
Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of
homeopathy. This
is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the
planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something
which
causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by
something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme.
Substances are
diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this
concentration there
is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long
way here.
There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible
evidence
for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense.
Marylynn Schmidt wrote:
Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth ..
We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a
dentist for
bone
re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a
separation of self
as
seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the
dermatologist for
skin
problems, etc
Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the
whole ..
nothing
is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body.
Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing
.. but if
you
have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we
all), then
homeopathy could be the road.
Mary Lynn
Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister
ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART
TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior
Modification
.
Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy
Practitioner
. Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy .
Polarity .
The Animal Connection Healing Modalities
http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/
http://allcreatureconnections.org
From: "D. Mindock"
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To:
Subject: Re:
[Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials
asEvidence)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500
Hi Mike,
Yep, Linus Pauling was a
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Hallo Joe, Thursday, 02 November, 2006, 10:05:46, you wrote: JS ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there JS Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there JS is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that JS like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how JS can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? JS Joe It's worse than that Joe. He demands data on the efficacy of homeopathic products stating that the work to falsify homeopathy has been done but provides zero data to falsify homeopathy as a legitimate method of treatment. Evidently he hasn't heard that what is good for the goose is good for the gander or of logical debate for that matter. If he had anything other than an opinion he would provide it but it isn't in any of his mails nor will it ever be because the work has apparently not been done. I haven't followed this thread but would like to know if he has cited any hard data or has he only cited the opinions of some scientists or nothing at all. Homeopathy has not been falsified because either no one has taken the trouble to do it or it works is what it looks like. His science is as hard as the testimonies he decries and his data against homeopathy is as lacking as the hard data for it. Some folks just like to talk for the sake of talking. Happy Happy, Gustl JS bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Joe Street wrote: ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? the mere expectation of an outcome can bring on the outcome. that is what the placebo effect is all about, and why it is necessary to do double blind , placebo controlled testing for efficacy. What ever effect a homeopathic nostrum does must be occurring via a placebo effect, as it can't be due to the chemical which is no longer there. Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
PLACEBO EFFECT .. ANIMALS/PLACEBO EFFECT .. ANIMALS / PLACEBO EFFECT .. ANIMALS Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 10:24:19 -0600 Joe Street wrote: ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? the mere expectation of an outcome can bring on the outcome. that is what the placebo effect is all about, and why it is necessary to do double blind , placebo controlled testing for efficacy. What ever effect a homeopathic nostrum does must be occurring via a placebo effect, as it can't be due to the chemical which is no longer there. Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
bob allen wrote:
Joe Street wrote:
' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful
there Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying
that there is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3
times) ( is that like tapping the heels of your shoes three
times?.lol) well then how can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or
otherwise?
the mere expectation of an outcome can bring on the outcome.
So you are admitting that the mind is a part of reality and not just a
part but a part which has substantial power to effect an outcome. But
where is the evidence of the mind? I don't know of any scientific
experiment which has detected it. You can cross section any lobe of my
brain and I guarantee you will not find any trace of my mind. It would
seem then from a scientific, hard evidence perspective that the mind
does not have a physical reality. And yet it has a very real power to
affect reality. Hmm.
You said in a previous post:
"
I know, I'm a firm believer in physical reality, and thats where I get
in trouble with those who accept supernatural explanations of natural
phenomena."
But you believe the placebo effect is real. I think that's called a circular argument isn't it?
Joe
that is
what the placebo effect is all about, and why it is necessary to do
double blind , placebo controlled testing for efficacy. What ever
effect a homeopathic nostrum does must be occurring via a placebo
effect, as it can't be due to the chemical which is no longer there.
Joe
bob allen wrote:
Kirk McLoren wrote:
In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and
with no adverse side effects/toxicology.
checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm.
In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation
produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic.
actually it can be. see above
More than can be said of many pharma nostrums.
Kirk
*/bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:
D. Mindock wrote:
Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your
quackwatch
routine.
Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices
is silly of
me to
ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or "science".
I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our
positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and
you accept testimony.
You have
your
thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science
is only a
method, a tool,
agreeed
to get something believed to have a chance of being true to
be
verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the
hypothesis in
the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite
some time.
no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not
homeopathy.
That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid.
so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do
something?
Science
is merely a method.
agreed
Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that.
who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense.
But if
you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who
apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that
silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this
works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.?
Peace and light, D. Mindock
- Original Message -
From: "bob allen"
To:
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel]
Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of
homeopathy. This
is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the
planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something
which
causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by
something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme.
Substances are
diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this
concentration there
is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long
way here.
There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible
evidence
for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense.
Marylynn Schmidt wrote:
Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth ..
We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a
dentist for
bone
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Howdy Gustl Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo Joe, Thursday, 02 November, 2006, 10:05:46, you wrote: JS ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there JS Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there JS is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that JS like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how JS can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? JS Joe It's worse than that Joe. He demands data on the efficacy of homeopathic products stating that the work to falsify homeopathy has been done but provides zero data to falsify homeopathy as a legitimate method of treatment. so your saying that because I can't prove that it doesn't work, means that it does? here is what I can prove: the dilutions employed in homeopathy are such that there is nothing left of the agent (the duck liver for example) in the final product. Logic alone would suggest then that the duck liver has no effect on the outcome of the use of the product, unless you accept that the water remembered the duck liver, and this was transfered to the filler in the capsule taken. One, I would think, has to suspend any connection to reality to believe that the water remembers what was in it. toodles Evidently he hasn't heard that what is good for the goose is good for the gander or of logical debate for that matter. If he had anything other than an opinion he would provide it but it isn't in any of his mails nor will it ever be because the work has apparently not been done. I haven't followed this thread but would like to know if he has cited any hard data or has he only cited the opinions of some scientists or nothing at all. Homeopathy has not been falsified because either no one has taken the trouble to do it or it works is what it looks like. His science is as hard as the testimonies he decries and his data against homeopathy is as lacking as the hard data for it. Some folks just like to talk for the sake of talking. Happy Happy, Gustl JS bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Goin' to shoot my ol' lady caught her messin' around with another man... bob allen wrote: Howdy Gustl Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo Joe, Thursday, 02 November, 2006, 10:05:46, you wrote: JS ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there JS Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there JS is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that JS like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how JS can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? JS Joe It's worse than that Joe. He demands data on the efficacy of homeopathic products stating that the work to falsify homeopathy has been done but provides zero data to falsify homeopathy as a legitimate method of treatment. so your saying that because I can't prove that it doesn't work, means that it does? here is what I can prove: the dilutions employed in homeopathy are such that there is nothing left of the agent (the duck liver for example) in the final product. Logic alone would suggest then that the duck liver has no effect on the outcome of the use of the product, unless you accept that the water remembered the duck liver, and this was transfered to the filler in the capsule taken. One, I would think, has to suspend any connection to reality to believe that the water remembers what was in it. toodles Evidently he hasn't heard that what is good for the goose is good for the gander or of logical debate for that matter. If he had anything other than an opinion he would provide it but it isn't in any of his mails nor will it ever be because the work has apparently not been done. I haven't followed this thread but would like to know if he has cited any hard data or has he only cited the opinions of some scientists or nothing at all. Homeopathy has not been falsified because either no one has taken the trouble to do it or it works is what it looks like. His science is as hard as the testimonies he decries and his data against homeopathy is as lacking as the hard data for it. Some folks just like to talk for the sake of talking. Happy Happy, Gustl JS bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500 Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful human being. I've been doing a bit of research on periodontal disease. It seems that there is alot going on that my dentist doesn't know about. He just wants to pull teeth and put in partial plates. But there are dentists who can stop the disease and get bone and gums to regrow. So I will try to hook up with one and see if he can do something to save a couple teeth. I've talked with a friend who has partials and he hates them. I agree that flu shots are a bad idea. My wife doesn't get them even if they're free. Her company brought in a couple nurses and offered all employees free flu shots. She passed. She says she feels uncomfortable for a few days after getting the shot doesn't like the feeling. You just don't know what's in there besides the crippled virus. She and I work at keeping ourselves as healthy as possible and don't take our health for granted. Yep, being ornery does help. The mind-body connection is very real. The mind controls your health to a large degree. Being stubbornly optimistic or happy is a good way to keep the sick bugs at bay. Peace and joy, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Hi D...good idea collecting the water thru the Pur first then distilling. Muy excellente!!! Linus Pauling...a true hero. Man, sorry to hear about the periodontal stuff. But glad you have a remedy. The colloidal silver I keep hearing about, but haven't tried. Just haven't felt the need. The wife and I don't do the flu shot stuff, but with whatever else we're doing, the years keep rolling by so far without any viral problems. Maybe being a bit ornery helps. Mike - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
(I know, I'm a firm believer in physical reality, and thats where I get in trouble with those who accept supernatural explanations of natural phenomena.) -That's probably because some people are open-minded. By saying impossible, we limit our perception on things and deny any other possibilities. Let's face it, we dont know much about this world; What we see, it's limited to our perception. Ages ago, walking on the moon = impossible! but now = oh okay, big deal. Question: What's considered physical reality? Where's the limit? Good day, Rick From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 12:24:26 -0500 bob allen wrote: Joe Street wrote: ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? the mere expectation of an outcome can bring on the outcome. So you are admitting that the mind is a part of reality and not just a part but a part which has substantial power to effect an outcome. But where is the evidence of the mind? I don't know of any scientific experiment which has detected it. You can cross section any lobe of my brain and I guarantee you will not find any trace of my mind. It would seem then from a scientific, hard evidence perspective that the mind does not have a physical reality. And yet it has a very real power to affect reality. Hmm. You said in a previous post: I know, I'm a firm believer in physical reality, and thats where I get in trouble with those who accept supernatural explanations of natural phenomena. But you believe the placebo effect is real. I think that's called a circular argument isn't it? Joe that is what the placebo effect is all about, and why it is necessary to do double blind , placebo controlled testing for efficacy. What ever effect a homeopathic nostrum does must be occurring via a placebo effect, as it can't be due to the chemical which is no longer there. Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500 Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful human being. I've been doing a bit of research on periodontal disease. It seems that there is alot going on that my dentist doesn't know about. He just wants to pull teeth and put in partial plates. But there are dentists who can stop the disease and get bone and gums to regrow. So I will try to hook up with one and see if he can do something to save a couple teeth. I've talked with a friend who has partials and he hates them. I agree that flu shots are a bad idea. My wife doesn't get them even if they're free. Her company brought in a couple nurses and offered all employees free flu shots. She passed. She says she feels uncomfortable for a few days after getting the shot doesn't like the feeling. You just don't know what's in there besides the crippled virus. She and I work at keeping ourselves as healthy as possible and don't take our health for granted. Yep, being ornery does help. The mind-body connection is very real. The mind controls your health to a large degree. Being stubbornly optimistic or happy is a good way to keep the sick bugs at bay. Peace and joy, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Wouldn't that be 'homeophobic' ;^ Joe Mike Weaver wrote: Here in Virginia I find that a lot of people are Homeopathic-phobic. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: I work with companion animals mainly .. at least that's what my business card says. One of the reasons I love working mainly with the furry, 4 legged variety vs the 2 legged skin types is there simply is no pretense, no puffed up self importance, and there is absolutely no PLACEBO EFFECT .. animals and infants .. just isn't there. .. if the stuff isn't working there is no way you will be able to convince that dog/cat/horse/cow that "WOW .. AREN'T YOU FEELING SO MUCH BETTER" .. and if you were silly enough to try that approach you will be flapping your jaws for your own entertainment .. or exercise. Given this set of conditions, I would be advising my client to (1) work with a Classical Homeopath for at least a year (don't self diagnosis and don't self treat with anything serious or long term) .. and (2) consider a good detox program (why bring it up and out if flushing will help) .. and then (3) move on to a qualified herbalist (helps aid in adding and balancing) within 1.5 to 2 years. Be careful in choosing a homeopath. Seek out one that's been highly recommended by people who know homeopathy. One of the scariest situations that is now cropping up in the Veterinarian community .. so I'm assuming it's happening in the Medical community (dentists would in included here) is that with such a substantial loss in income .. due hopefully to the human population beginning to wise up (I am an optimist always) .. a great many allopathically trained medical (furry and skin types) professionals are taking a few weekend courses and advertising themselves as holistic. In the vet community many are trying to use homeopathic remedies in an allopathic way .. something called nosodes used as a preventative would be an example. If you have any questions during treatment, I'll help if I can. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: "D. Mindock" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:33:46 -0600 Hi Marylynn, I'm going to see a holistic dentist next week. He wants to do a bunch of checks on me to see what's causing the periodontal disease. He says he has lots of methods to treat the problem. He is a follower of Dr. Hal Huggins, btw. Dr. Huggins introduced the problem of dental amalgam mercury poisoning to the public in the early 1980s. I think he is despised by the ADA. Yep, homeopathy is something I've been looking into. I used to use one from Boiron (sp) for flu prevention. Never got the flu when I used it. My original crown was done by a dentist in the air force about 30 years ago. He found a sensitive spot on a pre-molar. There was no cavity, just a spot sensitive to a probe he was using. So he drilled into a perfectly good tooth and put in a filling. I think that was the beginning of a slow decline in my health. Twenty years later the tooth started acting up, painwise. So I went to a dentist and he did a root canal followed with a gold crown. That tooth is now my nemesis. I know now it must come out even though I managed to stop the pain and infection with herbs, essential oils, MSM, and colloidal silver. I think what's happening now is that not only is the mercury bothering me but the toxic output of anaerobic bacteria is adding to the problem. Peace light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: "Marylynn Schmidt" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance a
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Hallo Bob, Wednesday, 01 November, 2006, 08:38:50, you wrote: ...snip... Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. ba who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. ba But if you really want to know it came from a guy called ba Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and ba effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you ba really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? ba Where is the data.? Without weighing in on one side or the other of this debate I would like to point out that a hypothesis only gets tested if science is interested enough in the hypothesis, for whatever reason, to do the testing. That a hypothesis has neither been tested and repeated nor negated or affirmed means basically nothing. That the scientific community ignores something or considers something a waste of time without testing also means nothing. People have differing beliefs and what one considers important or worthy another may not for any number of reasons. Sometimes all one has to go on is the testimony of others and sometimes things which fly in the face of science are efficacious. Asking for evidence for something which the scientific community refuses to test is a useless pursuit and proves nothing, neither evidence for or against a hypothesis, and attempting to discredit a theory because of lack of data seems to me but may not truly be disingenuous. I don't know one way or another whether homeopathy is or is not efficacious and neither do you because all we have to go on is testimonials. Science has refused to become involved which means only that science has refused to become involved. One of my former professors from 30 odd years ago is one of the most brilliant and astute and knowledgeable people I have ever known. He is also one of the healthiest people I have ever met and swears by homeopathy. Way back when he explained the theory of how and why it worked while seeming to fly in the face of science but I don't remember what he said and I don't use homeopathic medicine. I do know folks who ingest minute amounts of poison ivy every spring because they are extremely allergic to the plant and they claim it gives them immunity. I wouldn't recommend this method but if it works for them it works for them. And Bob, you know as well as I that science can be bought and science can be suppressed and dismissing that by calling it bad science seems to mean that you perhaps consider yourself qualified to act as the arbiter when it comes to bad science as well as what is or isn't crapola based on your own cherished beliefs. Perhaps that is not the case brother, but that is how you come across. And again, I don't have anything to say for or against homeopathy nor do I use its methods or dismiss them. So what can be said about all this? Those claiming homeopathy to be efficacious are able to say, We believe homeopathy to be efficacious because we have tried it and it has worked for us. This is our testimony. Those claiming homeopathy is not efficacious are able to say, We believe homeopathy to be bunk but since the experiments have not been done we have no evidence of that. It just sounds unscientific, improbable and impossible to us. My personal opinion? Homeopathy may be a topic worth discussing but I'm not anywhere near sure it is worth debating given the lack of hard evidence one way or the other, but that is just me. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
The cheaper the grapes are the sweeter the taste of the whine Joe Street wrote: There you go with your spelling again Mike! Don't you mean sour grape bread? j Mike Weaver wrote: You're thinking of sourdough bread. bob allen wrote: Terry Dyck wrote: Hi Bob, People have been taking homeopathic flu shots and seem to get results, however, people taking regular flu shots are still getting the flu and they are exposed to dangerous chemicals such as mercury and alluminum which are in regular flu vaccines. crapola, show me the data! homeophathy is a hoax, it is not chemically or biologically plausible. Please look at what it is and think critically. Homeopathic nostrums have been so diluted that nothing at all of the original ingredient exists. THINK ABOUT IT. The oscillococcinum preperation mentioned for the flu treatment is made from the liver of a duck. As I recall 35 grams of duck liver fat is churned into 100 milliters of water. This is dumped out. Then another 100 ml is added to the same container. Repeat this process 200 times. What you have is some thing that has been diluted 100 to the 200th power. The is no way in hell that there is a single m molecule exists from the original duck. Time magazine did a story on this a while back. They called it 120 million dollar duck, because that is the money made on the sale of the derived product (Boiron) talk about follow the money! I would encourage any thinking person to examine any of the following http://www.homeowatch.org/history/oscillo.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillococcinum or go listen to the podcasts at: http://www.quackcast.com/QuackCast/Podcasts/Archive.html after doing so come back and defend this nonsense Terry Dyck From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:53:36 -0500 Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500 Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful human being. I've been doing a bit of research on periodontal disease. It seems that there is alot going on that my dentist doesn't know about. He just wants to pull teeth and put in partial plates. But there are dentists who can stop the disease and get bone and gums to regrow. So I will try to hook up with one and see if he can do something to save a couple teeth. I've talked with a friend who has partials
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Howdy, Gustl Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo Bob, Wednesday, 01 November, 2006, 08:38:50, you wrote: ...snip... Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. ba who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. ba But if you really want to know it came from a guy called ba Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and ba effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you ba really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? ba Where is the data.? Without weighing in on one side or the other of this debate I would like to point out that a hypothesis only gets tested if science is interested enough in the hypothesis, for whatever reason, to do the testing. you speak as if science is a thing or person, not a process. Surely if it worked, then there would be someone capable of conducting trial which would show efficacy by generally accepted methodologies. That a hypothesis has neither been tested and repeated nor negated or affirmed means basically nothing. big money (remember follow the money) is made with purportedly efficacious homeopathic agents. Why haven't the promoters of these agents for once and for all put the question to the test- prove that something that isn't there has pharmacological effect. It shouldn't be that difficult to prove . That the scientific community ignores something or considers something a waste of time without testing also means nothing. People have differing beliefs and what one considers important or worthy another may not for any number of reasons. Sometimes all one has to go on is the testimony of others and sometimes things which fly in the face of science are efficacious. for example ??? Asking for evidence for something which the scientific community refuses to test is a useless pursuit and proves nothing, neither evidence for or against a hypothesis, and attempting to discredit a theory because of lack of data seems to me but may not truly be disingenuous. what is disingenuous is making unsupportable claims , not questioning the claim itself. I don't know one way or another whether homeopathy is or is not efficacious and neither do you because all we have to go on is testimonials. I do have serious reason the question the efficacy of homeopathy. the sheer degree of silliness is overwhelming. Homeopathic agents begin as something and are diluted to nothing. I repeat nothing. NOTHING. So the claim that nothing does something is extraordinary. I won't say it needs extraordinary proof, just any proof. Science has refused to become involved which means only that science has refused to become involved. Actually there have been tests which failed miserably to prove efficacy. How many times does one have to prove an implausible hypothesis is false before it goes away, at least scientifically. See for example the Benveniste Affair as published in Nature Magazine. One of my former professors professor of what? Isaac Newton was a brilliant physicist but a real numnuts when it comes to chemistry- he was a part time alchemist trying to turn lead into gold from 30 odd years ago is one of the most brilliant and astute and knowledgeable people I have ever known. He is also one of the healthiest people I have ever met and swears by homeopathy. Way back when he explained the theory of how and why it worked while seeming to fly in the face of science but I don't remember what he said and I don't use homeopathic medicine. I do know folks who ingest minute amounts of poison ivy every spring because they are extremely allergic to the plant and they claim it gives them immunity. at least in this case something is there- in homeopathy nothing is there I wouldn't recommend this method but if it works for them it works for them. And Bob, you know as well as I that science can be bought and science can be suppressed and dismissing that by calling it bad science seems to mean that you perhaps consider yourself qualified to act as the arbiter when it comes to bad science as well as what is or isn't crapola based on your own cherished beliefs. sure data can be manipulated, it's called fraud Perhaps that is not the case brother, but that is how you come across. I know, I'm a firm believer in physical reality, and thats where I get in trouble with those who accept supernatural explanations of natural phenomena. And again, I don't have anything to say for or against homeopathy nor do I use its methods or dismiss them. So what can be said about all this? Those claiming homeopathy to be efficacious are able to say, We believe homeopathy to be efficacious because we have tried it and it has worked for us. This is our testimony. Those claiming
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. More than can be said of many pharma nostrums.Kirkbob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or "science". I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool,agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method.agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <BIOFUEL@SUSTAINABLELISTS.ORG> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: "D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: <BIOFUEL@SUSTAINABLELISTS.ORG> Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500 Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful human being. I've been doing a bit of research on periodontal disease. It seems that there is alot going on that my dentist doesn't know about. He just wants to pull teeth and put in partial plates. But there are dentists who can stop the disease and get bone and gums to regrow. So I will try to hook up with one and see if he can do something to save a couple teeth. I've talked with a friend who has partials and he hates them. I agree that flu shots are a bad idea. My wife doesn't get them even if they're free. Her company brought in a couple nurses and offered all employees free flu shots. She passed. She says she feels uncomfortable for a few days after getting the shot doesn't like the feeling. You just don't know what's in there besides the crippled virus. She and I work at keeping ourselves as healthy as possible and don't take our health for granted. Yep, being ornery does help. The mind-body connection is very real. The mind controls your health t
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500 Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful human being. I've been doing a bit of research on periodontal disease. It seems that there is alot going on that my dentist doesn't know about. He just wants to pull teeth and put in partial plates. But there are dentists who can stop the disease
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Hi Marylynn, Many people use homeopathic remedies for animals including horse racing owners. If they do not get results they would not spend the money. The placebo effect does not work on animals is a great point that you made. Terry Dyck From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 04:41:45 + I try not to respond. I grew up in a household of 3 chemical engineers with an average of 2.5 masters between them .. brilliant people and I frequently could enjoy being a member of that household .. except when I was trying to walk them through traffic .. and, lord please forgive me .. when I was begged to go clothes shopping with my sister .. retired as head of patents for a large chemical company but couldn't understand something like sizes and appropriate dress for different occasions. I dressed her pretty much through most of her extremely successful career. My problem was understanding how they could be simply amazed when something in a test tube would respond in one way but would respond quite differently .. say in a human body .. they weren't just joking .. they really couldn't understand it. To believe in the physical, just the physical, and only the physical leaves the rest of the universe ignored .. and I don't believe the rest of the universe needs to be ignored. As I've said before, I work with animals .. no such thing as placebo .. I love success. .. and because I love success I'll share with you all Graviola, Andrographis, Chaparral, Neem .. they are all easily obtainable and common herbs that have a great track record against cancer .. also a great success story for about the cost of $60.00. As Rose (on another list) says in her signature .. for those who say it can't be done, please get out of the way of those who are doing it. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:06:24 -0600 Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. Science is merely a method. Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Hi Terry .. I had the opportunity of watching a demo of a really old crippled up farm dog worked on with acupuncture .. in just 20 minutes I had become a believer and now have referred many clients to acupuncturists. The results have been repeatedly much better than anyone could hope for with very few exceptions. Animals can be such wonderful teachers it seems like such a waste of talent when you stop and consider just how hard their job is when the student is US. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: Terry Dyck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 19:01:31 + Hi Marylynn, Many people use homeopathic remedies for animals including horse racing owners. If they do not get results they would not spend the money. The placebo effect does not work on animals is a great point that you made. Terry Dyck From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 04:41:45 + I try not to respond. I grew up in a household of 3 chemical engineers with an average of 2.5 masters between them .. brilliant people and I frequently could enjoy being a member of that household .. except when I was trying to walk them through traffic .. and, lord please forgive me .. when I was begged to go clothes shopping with my sister .. retired as head of patents for a large chemical company but couldn't understand something like sizes and appropriate dress for different occasions. I dressed her pretty much through most of her extremely successful career. My problem was understanding how they could be simply amazed when something in a test tube would respond in one way but would respond quite differently .. say in a human body .. they weren't just joking .. they really couldn't understand it. To believe in the physical, just the physical, and only the physical leaves the rest of the universe ignored .. and I don't believe the rest of the universe needs to be ignored. As I've said before, I work with animals .. no such thing as placebo .. I love success. .. and because I love success I'll share with you all Graviola, Andrographis, Chaparral, Neem .. they are all easily obtainable and common herbs that have a great track record against cancer .. also a great success story for about the cost of $60.00. As Rose (on another list) says in her signature .. for those who say it can't be done, please get out of the way of those who are doing it. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:06:24 -0600 Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. Science is merely a method. Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
as the vaccine is taken into the mouth and builds up protection with each further dose. This build-up leads from tonsillar tissue through the lymphatics incorporating the entire reticuloendothelial system. This procedure is equivalent to what is known as `street infection' viz., ingestion of virus etc. during daily contact with other animals, when immunity would be built up in the same way. .There are no side effects when using homeopathic oral vaccines-a reaction may sometimes be observed.but such reaction is transient and soon passes. .Another advantage in protection by homeopathic means, is that vaccination can be started very early in the pup's life, e.g., within the first week if necessary. This does not interfere with the presence of any maternal antibodies. Ed. Note: the bold letters and underline are mine.) Nosodes appear to stimulate the entire natural immune system to react against a specific disease. One of the many reasons that they have not been accepted in the `orthodox' medical community, is that they do not produce specific, measurable antibodies! This `titer testing' is of little value in measuring effective immunity from nosode usage. Again, because the `mechanism' of action is poorly understood, the 'orthodox' reaction is to reject all evidence as merely `anecdotal.' Perhaps the `challenge' study by Dr. Schultz will provide more acceptable evidence to this mentality. In the U.S.A., the primary source for nosodes is the Hahnemann Pharmacy in Berkeley, California. Interestingly, nosodes can be obtained in `singular' form or in a `combination' form. Both forms are presently being used by holistic vets with good results. I should mention however, that there is no unanimous agreement between vets, with respect to the schedule of application. There are various protocols of administration being used, so don't be surprised if you run across different recommendations from different people. Nosodes share the same problem as other homeopathic remedies, i.e., they don't fit into current scientific understanding. Back in the 1550's, an Italian anatomist said the heart was a pump. He was burned at the stake. Seventy-five years later, William Harvey said the same thing. He was knighted. What happened in between those two events was that the mechanical pumps came into widespread use for irrigation and mining. Homeopathy doesn't make sense to most people because it lacks a real world metaphor. Until it has one, all the positive studies in the world won't be able to crack open the closed mind. I am thankful that there is a growing number of people that choose to think for themselves. - Original Message - From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) I work with companion animals mainly .. at least that's what my business card says. One of the reasons I love working mainly with the furry, 4 legged variety vs the 2 legged skin types is there simply is no pretense, no puffed up self importance, and there is absolutely no PLACEBO EFFECT .. animals and infants .. just isn't there. .. if the stuff isn't working there is no way you will be able to convince that dog/cat/horse/cow that WOW .. AREN'T YOU FEELING SO MUCH BETTER .. and if you were silly enough to try that approach you will be flapping your jaws for your own entertainment .. or exercise. Given this set of conditions, I would be advising my client to (1) work with a Classical Homeopath for at least a year (don't self diagnosis and don't self treat with anything serious or long term) .. and (2) consider a good detox program (why bring it up and out if flushing will help) .. and then (3) move on to a qualified herbalist (helps aid in adding and balancing) within 1.5 to 2 years. Be careful in choosing a homeopath. Seek out one that's been highly recommended by people who know homeopathy. One of the scariest situations that is now cropping up in the Veterinarian community .. so I'm assuming it's happening in the Medical community (dentists would in included here) is that with such a substantial loss in income .. due hopefully to the human population beginning to wise up (I am an optimist always) .. a great many allopathically trained medical (furry and skin types) professionals are taking a few weekend courses and advertising themselves as holistic. In the vet community many are trying to use homeopathic remedies in an allopathic way .. something called nosodes used as a preventative would be an example. If you have any questions during treatment, I'll help if I can. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
- Original Message - From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) SNIP As Rose (on another list) says in her signature .. for those who say it can't be done, please get out of the way of those who are doing it. SNIP i am usually not so nice about my approach, but the idea i use is the same. if someone says it is impossible, do it to prove them wrong. i try to do this as often as i can (doesnt always work, but cant say i never tried...). Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
I work with companion animals mainly .. at least that's what my business card says. One of the reasons I love working mainly with the furry, 4 legged variety vs the 2 legged skin types is there simply is no pretense, no puffed up self importance, and there is absolutely no PLACEBO EFFECT .. animals and infants .. just isn't there. .. if the stuff isn't working there is no way you will be able to convince that dog/cat/horse/cow that WOW .. AREN'T YOU FEELING SO MUCH BETTER .. and if you were silly enough to try that approach you will be flapping your jaws for your own entertainment .. or exercise. Given this set of conditions, I would be advising my client to (1) work with a Classical Homeopath for at least a year (don't self diagnosis and don't self treat with anything serious or long term) .. and (2) consider a good detox program (why bring it up and out if flushing will help) .. and then (3) move on to a qualified herbalist (helps aid in adding and balancing) within 1.5 to 2 years. Be careful in choosing a homeopath. Seek out one that's been highly recommended by people who know homeopathy. One of the scariest situations that is now cropping up in the Veterinarian community .. so I'm assuming it's happening in the Medical community (dentists would in included here) is that with such a substantial loss in income .. due hopefully to the human population beginning to wise up (I am an optimist always) .. a great many allopathically trained medical (furry and skin types) professionals are taking a few weekend courses and advertising themselves as holistic. In the vet community many are trying to use homeopathic remedies in an allopathic way .. something called nosodes used as a preventative would be an example. If you have any questions during treatment, I'll help if I can. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:33:46 -0600 Hi Marylynn, I'm going to see a holistic dentist next week. He wants to do a bunch of checks on me to see what's causing the periodontal disease. He says he has lots of methods to treat the problem. He is a follower of Dr. Hal Huggins, btw. Dr. Huggins introduced the problem of dental amalgam mercury poisoning to the public in the early 1980s. I think he is despised by the ADA. Yep, homeopathy is something I've been looking into. I used to use one from Boiron (sp) for flu prevention. Never got the flu when I used it. My original crown was done by a dentist in the air force about 30 years ago. He found a sensitive spot on a pre-molar. There was no cavity, just a spot sensitive to a probe he was using. So he drilled into a perfectly good tooth and put in a filling. I think that was the beginning of a slow decline in my health. Twenty years later the tooth started acting up, painwise. So I went to a dentist and he did a root canal followed with a gold crown. That tooth is now my nemesis. I know now it must come out even though I managed to stop the pain and infection with herbs, essential oils, MSM, and colloidal silver. I think what's happening now is that not only is the mercury bothering me but the toxic output of anaerobic bacteria is adding to the problem. Peace light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
D. Mindock wrote: Hi Marylynn, I'm going to see a holistic dentist next week. He wants to do a bunch of checks on me to see what's causing the periodontal disease. Do you brush and floss regularly? Do you have your teeth professionally cleaned every four to six months? Dentistry is certainly one medical field in which prevention and hygeine should be paramount concerns. I STILL have a baby tooth in my mouth! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Hi Marylynn, I'm going to see a holistic dentist next week. He wants to do a bunch of checks on me to see what's causing the periodontal disease. He says he has lots of methods to treat the problem. He is a follower of Dr. Hal Huggins, btw. Dr. Huggins introduced the problem of dental amalgam mercury poisoning to the public in the early 1980s. I think he is despised by the ADA. Yep, homeopathy is something I've been looking into. I used to use one from Boiron (sp) for flu prevention. Never got the flu when I used it. My original crown was done by a dentist in the air force about 30 years ago. He found a sensitive spot on a pre-molar. There was no cavity, just a spot sensitive to a probe he was using. So he drilled into a perfectly good tooth and put in a filling. I think that was the beginning of a slow decline in my health. Twenty years later the tooth started acting up, painwise. So I went to a dentist and he did a root canal followed with a gold crown. That tooth is now my nemesis. I know now it must come out even though I managed to stop the pain and infection with herbs, essential oils, MSM, and colloidal silver. I think what's happening now is that not only is the mercury bothering me but the toxic output of anaerobic bacteria is adding to the problem. Peace light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500 Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful human being. I've been doing a bit of research on periodontal disease. It seems that there is alot going on that my dentist doesn't know about. He just wants to pull teeth and put in partial plates. But there are dentists who can stop the disease and get bone and gums to regrow. So I will try to hook up with one and see if he can do something to save a couple teeth. I've talked with a friend who has partials and he hates them. I agree that flu shots are a bad idea. My wife doesn't get them even if they're free. Her company brought in a couple nurses and offered all employees free flu shots. She passed. She says she feels uncomfortable for a few days after getting the shot doesn't like the feeling. You just don't know what's in there besides the crippled virus. She and I work at keeping ourselves as healthy as possible and don't take our health for granted. Yep, being ornery does help. The mind-body connection is very real. The mind controls your health to a large degree. Being stubbornly optimistic or happy is a good way to keep the sick bugs at bay. Peace and joy, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Hi D...good idea collecting the water thru the Pur first then distilling. Muy excellente!!! Linus Pauling...a true hero. Man, sorry to hear about the periodontal stuff. But glad you have a remedy. The colloidal silver I keep hearing about, but haven't tried. Just haven't felt the need. The wife and I don't do the flu shot stuff, but with whatever else we're doing, the years keep rolling by so far without any viral problems. Maybe being a bit ornery helps. Mike - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Hi Bob, People have been taking homeopathic flu shots and seem to get results, however, people taking regular flu shots are still getting the flu and they are exposed to dangerous chemicals such as mercury and alluminum which are in regular flu vaccines. Terry Dyck From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:53:36 -0500 Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500 Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful human being. I've been doing a bit of research on periodontal disease. It seems that there is alot going on that my dentist doesn't know about. He just wants to pull teeth and put in partial plates. But there are dentists who can stop the disease and get bone and gums to regrow. So I will try to hook up with one and see if he can do something to save a couple teeth. I've talked with a friend who has partials and he hates them. I agree that flu shots are a bad idea. My wife doesn't get them even if they're free. Her company brought in a couple nurses and offered all employees free flu shots. She passed. She says she feels uncomfortable for a few days after getting the shot doesn't like the feeling. You just don't know what's in there besides the crippled virus. She and I work at keeping ourselves as healthy as possible and don't take our health for granted. Yep, being ornery does help. The mind-body connection is very real. The mind controls your health to a large degree. Being stubbornly optimistic or happy is a good way to keep the sick bugs at bay. Peace and joy, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Hi D...good idea collecting the water thru the Pur first then distilling. Muy excellente!!! Linus Pauling...a true hero. Man, sorry to hear about the periodontal stuff. But glad you have a remedy. The colloidal silver I keep hearing about, but haven't tried. Just haven't felt the need. The wife and I don't do the flu shot stuff, but with whatever else we're doing, the years keep rolling by so far without any viral problems. Maybe being a bit ornery helps. Mike - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Hi Mike, Yeah, my distiller has that drip thingy too. But I don't trust it very much. It is just too small and the water merely flows over a the carbon granules. So I use a faucet mounted carbon block filter. It is a Pur but Brita and some others make them too. I collect
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Terry Dyck wrote: Hi Bob, People have been taking homeopathic flu shots and seem to get results, however, people taking regular flu shots are still getting the flu and they are exposed to dangerous chemicals such as mercury and alluminum which are in regular flu vaccines. crapola, show me the data! homeophathy is a hoax, it is not chemically or biologically plausible. Please look at what it is and think critically. Homeopathic nostrums have been so diluted that nothing at all of the original ingredient exists. THINK ABOUT IT. The oscillococcinum preperation mentioned for the flu treatment is made from the liver of a duck. As I recall 35 grams of duck liver fat is churned into 100 milliters of water. This is dumped out. Then another 100 ml is added to the same container. Repeat this process 200 times. What you have is some thing that has been diluted 100 to the 200th power. The is no way in hell that there is a single m molecule exists from the original duck. Time magazine did a story on this a while back. They called it 120 million dollar duck, because that is the money made on the sale of the derived product (Boiron) talk about follow the money! I would encourage any thinking person to examine any of the following http://www.homeowatch.org/history/oscillo.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillococcinum or go listen to the podcasts at: http://www.quackcast.com/QuackCast/Podcasts/Archive.html after doing so come back and defend this nonsense Terry Dyck From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:53:36 -0500 Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500 Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful human being. I've been doing a bit of research on periodontal disease. It seems that there is alot going on that my dentist doesn't know about. He just wants to pull teeth and put in partial plates. But there are dentists who can stop the disease and get bone and gums to regrow. So I will try to hook up with one and see if he can do something to save a couple teeth. I've talked with a friend who has partials and he hates them. I agree that flu shots are a bad idea. My wife doesn't get them even if they're free. Her company brought in a couple nurses and offered all employees free flu shots. She passed. She says she feels uncomfortable for a few days after getting the shot doesn't like the feeling. You just don't know what's in there besides the crippled virus. She and I work at keeping ourselves as healthy as possible and don't take our health for granted. Yep, being ornery does help. The mind-body connection is very real. The mind controls your health to a large degree. Being stubbornly optimistic or happy is a good way to keep the sick bugs at bay. Peace and joy, D. Mindock
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
You're thinking of sourdough bread. bob allen wrote: Terry Dyck wrote: Hi Bob, People have been taking homeopathic flu shots and seem to get results, however, people taking regular flu shots are still getting the flu and they are exposed to dangerous chemicals such as mercury and alluminum which are in regular flu vaccines. crapola, show me the data! homeophathy is a hoax, it is not chemically or biologically plausible. Please look at what it is and think critically. Homeopathic nostrums have been so diluted that nothing at all of the original ingredient exists. THINK ABOUT IT. The oscillococcinum preperation mentioned for the flu treatment is made from the liver of a duck. As I recall 35 grams of duck liver fat is churned into 100 milliters of water. This is dumped out. Then another 100 ml is added to the same container. Repeat this process 200 times. What you have is some thing that has been diluted 100 to the 200th power. The is no way in hell that there is a single m molecule exists from the original duck. Time magazine did a story on this a while back. They called it 120 million dollar duck, because that is the money made on the sale of the derived product (Boiron) talk about follow the money! I would encourage any thinking person to examine any of the following http://www.homeowatch.org/history/oscillo.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillococcinum or go listen to the podcasts at: http://www.quackcast.com/QuackCast/Podcasts/Archive.html after doing so come back and defend this nonsense Terry Dyck From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:53:36 -0500 Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500 Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful human being. I've been doing a bit of research on periodontal disease. It seems that there is alot going on that my dentist doesn't know about. He just wants to pull teeth and put in partial plates. But there are dentists who can stop the disease and get bone and gums to regrow. So I will try to hook up with one and see if he can do something to save a couple teeth. I've talked with a friend who has partials and he hates them. I agree that flu shots are a bad idea. My wife doesn't get them even if they're free. Her company brought in a couple nurses and offered all employees free flu shots. She passed. She says she feels uncomfortable for a few days after getting the shot doesn't like the feeling. You just don't know what's in there besides the crippled virus. She and I work at keeping ourselves as healthy as possible and don't take
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. Science is merely a method. Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500 Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful human being. I've been doing a bit of research on periodontal disease. It seems that there is alot going on that my dentist doesn't know about. He just wants to pull teeth and put in partial plates. But there are dentists who can stop the disease and get bone and gums to regrow. So I will try to hook up with one and see if he can do something to save a couple teeth. I've talked with a friend who has partials and he hates them. I agree that flu shots are a bad idea. My wife doesn't get them even if they're free. Her company brought in a couple nurses and offered all employees free flu shots. She passed. She says she feels uncomfortable for a few days after getting the shot doesn't like the feeling. You just don't know what's in there besides the crippled virus. She and I work at keeping ourselves as healthy as possible and don't take our health for granted. Yep, being ornery does help. The mind-body connection is very real. The mind controls your health to a large degree. Being stubbornly optimistic or happy is a good way to keep the sick bugs at bay. Peace and joy, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Hi D...good idea collecting the water thru the Pur first then distilling. Muy excellente!!! Linus Pauling...a true hero. Man, sorry to hear about the periodontal stuff. But glad you have a remedy. The colloidal silver I keep hearing about, but haven't tried. Just haven't felt the need. The wife and I don't do the flu shot stuff, but with whatever else we're doing, the years keep rolling by so far without any viral problems. Maybe being a bit ornery helps. Mike - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
I try not to respond. I grew up in a household of 3 chemical engineers with an average of 2.5 masters between them .. brilliant people and I frequently could enjoy being a member of that household .. except when I was trying to walk them through traffic .. and, lord please forgive me .. when I was begged to go clothes shopping with my sister .. retired as head of patents for a large chemical company but couldn't understand something like sizes and appropriate dress for different occasions. I dressed her pretty much through most of her extremely successful career. My problem was understanding how they could be simply amazed when something in a test tube would respond in one way but would respond quite differently .. say in a human body .. they weren't just joking .. they really couldn't understand it. To believe in the physical, just the physical, and only the physical leaves the rest of the universe ignored .. and I don't believe the rest of the universe needs to be ignored. As I've said before, I work with animals .. no such thing as placebo .. I love success. .. and because I love success I'll share with you all Graviola, Andrographis, Chaparral, Neem .. they are all easily obtainable and common herbs that have a great track record against cancer .. also a great success story for about the cost of $60.00. As Rose (on another list) says in her signature .. for those who say it can't be done, please get out of the way of those who are doing it. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:06:24 -0600 Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. Science is merely a method. Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful human being. I've been doing a bit of research on periodontal disease. It seems that there is alot going on that my dentist doesn't know about. He just wants to pull teeth and put in partial plates. But there are dentists who can stop the disease and get bone and gums to regrow. So I will try to hook up with one and see if he can do something to save a couple teeth. I've talked with a friend who has partials and he hates them. I agree that flu shots are a bad idea. My wife doesn't get them even if they're free. Her company brought in a couple nurses and offered all employees free flu shots. She passed. She says she feelsuncomfortable for a few days after getting the shot doesn't like the feeling. You just don't know what's in there besides the crippled virus. She and I work at keeping ourselves as healthy as possible and don't take our health for granted. Yep, being ornery does help. The mind-body connection is very real. The mind controls your health to a large degree. Being stubbornly optimistic or happy is a good way to keep the sick bugs at bay. Peace and joy, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Hi D...good idea collecting the water thru the Pur first then distilling. Muy excellente!!! Linus Pauling...a true hero. Man, sorry to hear about the periodontal stuff. But glad you have a remedy. The colloidal silver I keep hearing about, but haven't tried.Just haven'tfeltthe need. The wife and I don't do the flu shot stuff,but with whatever else we're doing,the years keep rolling byso far without any viral problems. Maybe being a bit ornery helps. Mike - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Hi Mike, Yeah, my distiller has that drip thingy too. But I don't trust it very much. It is just too small and the water merely flows over a the carbon granules. So I use a faucet mounted carbon block filter. It is a Pur but Brita and some others make them too. I collect that filtered water and then distill it. I am familiar with Bronson. I think that is the company that Linus Pauling used as his source for vitamin C. Ok about the vit min supplement. You got your bases covered. I take the same stuff, basically.Because Ihave periodontal disease, Ialso take grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf extract, and MSM. If I layoff taking these, I get a bloody toothbrush that reminds me that I need to stay with the program. Oh, and I do take colloidal silver too. Peace light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Hi D...regarding removing the gases, the distiller I use finishes the process by dripping the water through a carbon filter. Is this what you're talking about? Regarding the mineral replacement, I take a vitamin and mineral supplementfrom a company called Bronson. They call it "Insurance Formula." It is a formulation basedon a book written by a Dr. Roger J. Williams,The Wonderful World Within You(Bantam, 1977) (How's that for documentation, Bob?)It's been ages since I've read the book, so can't tellyou a damn thing about it. We buy direct from Bronson, not a multilevel deal or anything. Prices seem real good, so have never considered anything else. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was HypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Hi Mike, Yep, homogenization breaks the particles down to such a small size that they can pass through the gut into the body cavitywhere they put a burden on the immune system. Pastuerization adds to the problem by destroying the "life force" of the milk, the enzymes. Of course the milk has to be from a healthy animal that is grass fed. Soy is controversial in that
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500 Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful human being. I've been doing a bit of research on periodontal disease. It seems that there is alot going on that my dentist doesn't know about. He just wants to pull teeth and put in partial plates. But there are dentists who can stop the disease and get bone and gums to regrow. So I will try to hook up with one and see if he can do something to save a couple teeth. I've talked with a friend who has partials and he hates them. I agree that flu shots are a bad idea. My wife doesn't get them even if they're free. Her company brought in a couple nurses and offered all employees free flu shots. She passed. She says she feels uncomfortable for a few days after getting the shot doesn't like the feeling. You just don't know what's in there besides the crippled virus. She and I work at keeping ourselves as healthy as possible and don't take our health for granted. Yep, being ornery does help. The mind-body connection is very real. The mind controls your health to a large degree. Being stubbornly optimistic or happy is a good way to keep the sick bugs at bay. Peace and joy, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Hi D...good idea collecting the water thru the Pur first then distilling. Muy excellente!!! Linus Pauling...a true hero. Man, sorry to hear about the periodontal stuff. But glad you have a remedy. The colloidal silver I keep hearing about, but haven't tried. Just haven't felt the need. The wife and I don't do the flu shot stuff, but with whatever else we're doing, the years keep rolling by so far without any viral problems. Maybe being a bit ornery helps. Mike - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Hi Mike, Yeah, my distiller has that drip thingy too. But I don't trust it very much. It is just too small and the water merely flows over a the carbon granules. So I use a faucet mounted carbon block filter. It is a Pur but Brita and some others make them too. I collect that filtered water and then distill it. I am familiar with Bronson. I think that is the company that Linus Pauling used as his source for vitamin C. Ok about the vit min supplement. You got your bases covered. I take the same stuff, basically. Because I have periodontal disease, I also take grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf extract, and MSM. If I layoff taking these, I get a bloody toothbrush that reminds me that I need to stay with the program. Oh, and I do take colloidal silver too. Peace light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Hi D...regarding removing the gases, the distiller I use finishes the process by dripping the water through a carbon filter. Is this what you're talking about? Regarding the mineral replacement, I take a vitamin and mineral supplement from a company called Bronson. They call it Insurance Formula. It is a formulation based on a book written by a Dr. Roger J. Williams, The Wonderful World Within
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500 Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful human being. I've been doing a bit of research on periodontal disease. It seems that there is alot going on that my dentist doesn't know about. He just wants to pull teeth and put in partial plates. But there are dentists who can stop the disease and get bone and gums to regrow. So I will try to hook up with one and see if he can do something to save a couple teeth. I've talked with a friend who has partials and he hates them. I agree that flu shots are a bad idea. My wife doesn't get them even if they're free. Her company brought in a couple nurses and offered all employees free flu shots. She passed. She says she feels uncomfortable for a few days after getting the shot doesn't like the feeling. You just don't know what's in there besides the crippled virus. She and I work at keeping ourselves as healthy as possible and don't take our health for granted. Yep, being ornery does help. The mind-body connection is very real. The mind controls your health to a large degree. Being stubbornly optimistic or happy is a good way to keep the sick bugs at bay. Peace and joy, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Hi D...good idea collecting the water thru the Pur first then distilling. Muy excellente!!! Linus Pauling...a true hero. Man, sorry to hear about the periodontal stuff. But glad you have a remedy. The colloidal silver I keep hearing about, but haven't tried. Just haven't felt the need. The wife and I don't do the flu shot stuff, but with whatever else we're doing, the years keep rolling by so far without any viral problems. Maybe being a bit ornery helps. Mike - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Hi Mike, Yeah, my distiller has that drip thingy too. But I don't trust it very much. It is just too small and the water merely flows over a the carbon granules. So I use a faucet mounted carbon block filter. It is a Pur but Brita and some others make them too. I collect that filtered water and then distill it. I am familiar with Bronson. I think that is the company that Linus Pauling used as his source for vitamin C. Ok about the vit min supplement. You got your bases covered. I take the same stuff, basically. Because I have periodontal disease, I also take grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf extract, and MSM. If I layoff taking these, I get a bloody toothbrush that reminds me that I need to stay with the program. Oh, and I do
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Hi Mike, Yep, at times thisidea of being reality can be misconstrued as beingsupremely egocentric but nothing is further from the truth.One's mind and senses create a version of the quantum soup, a reality. As one evolves through experiences, one's reality changes too, becoming more inclusive and intriguing/interesting. Thanks for making my reality moreinteresting. Have a nice journey to Forever. Peace and joy, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Addendum...I hope it is understood that when I said anything about "I" being a "great reality," I was responding most immediately to the wise words of D. and that, even thoughI wasspeaking for myself, I was speakingwith all of us,with all the universe, in mind. I may yet tend toward the egocentric, but not so much so that I would consider myself above--or below--any other. And again, I'm sorry if any prior post of mine offended anyone.I supposethere will always be someone offended by something any of us might say or do, but there is adifference betweenwhen we intend offense, such asI intended inseveral prior posts, and when wesimply express ourselves and someone is offended. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Hi D and List...thank you. Thank ALL of you. Yes, make myself agreat reality or, perhaps more accurately, let myself be that great reality, making myself that great reality thereby. Iaccept I am highly unskilled along these lines. Too often "I" get in the way of "Us." Too often I see only thespecific, the isolatedobject, andact inappropriately, failing to askhowmight Ihelp the specific resolve itselfinto the truth of our connection. I'm reminded of the saying, "Let Go--Let God." I hope somehow myremembrance and use of thisexhortation within the context I am using it is clearly understood. Too often itused as an excuseto set aside personal responsibility and that is not my intent.To the contrary, I advocate the ultimate responsibility: let myself becomethe greatreality. To anyone I may have offendedbecause Ilet myself get in theway of understanding the individual's connection toALL, I ask your forgiveness and I thank you for giving me the opportunity to better understand how I might better understand how I am connected to ALL. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:07 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Hi Mike, Quantum physics seems to be verifying much of metaphysical concepts. The idea ofeverything being connectedis one such idea. Actually experiencing it is life changing. The idea of all things being intimately connected is then no longer an abstract thing, but real. Things like war or killing another humanare no longer possible. Killing anotherbecomes killing yourself. War is seen as amonstrosity. Peace cooperationbecome as natural as breathing. Probablythe wayto go is to always assume the best intentionswrt messages via email or on this list. Email is a stripped of a lot of feeling and can be easily misconstrued. Joe does an admirable job of getting his ideas across with email. I still am learning how to use email so that I don't offend. This forum is good learning experience for me. Yep, experiencing the feeling of all pervasive connectedness becomes a knowing, beyond faith. So it becomes part of your intrinsic makeup--your being. This connectedness extends to your own soul/spirit. I heard Deepak Chopra speak last week. He presents this idea ofUnityin a stunningly clear way via quantum physics and his knowledge of the human body. He is a endocrinologist, one of the best in the world.Nothing beats actually experiencing it, but listening to him explain it led to a-ha moments. We docreate our own reality. So make yourself a great reality. Peace light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainableli
