Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, Bit of a presumption or two there, eh? One that there was an invite and two that if there were that I would care to parlay valuable time for such a distraction. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. I'd prefer to approach it as a gap in communication, aka a misunderstanding. There are far more destructive/debilitating practices out there, accomplished with intent no less, that need to be squashed or quarantined. I'd rather save my energies for those more notable occassions. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert No problem Todd. I gotcha, loud and clear. Even if Ken was 100% correct, I would have worded it a little differently and certainly would not have made presumptions as to what you don't know. That's just an invitation to a contest in which I prefer not to enter. Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, I just want to say that I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and let's move on. These kinds of exchanges can consume an awful lot of time and I think we all have bigger fish to fry. Mike Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, When two people say the same thing, one of them cannot be right and the other wrong. While that may be the reality of politics, that's not reality. Please see my reply to Ken's post. As well, Ken made more than one statement of absolutism. When you state that he is right, you lend to a perception that all of his statements are correct. Note was made of at least two points of error in two of his conclusions. While his qualifications are correct, as are yours, his declarations of wrongness are in error. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Ken is right. The statement 'colder than normal' means that someone else has a 'hotter than normal'. could only be true if the same amount of energy reaches the Earth's surface every day. Changes in the ozone layer changes the amount of energy reaching the Earths surface. The greenhouse effect addresses the Earth's ability to absorb or filter certain wave lengths of light. When you're in front of a large, open flame, you feel the heat radiated from the fire. Hold a pane of glass in front of your face and you will notice that it doesn't feel as hot. That's how I visualize the ozone layer at work. FYI: This isn't an original idea. Someone thought of this comparison long before me. http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=greenhouse+effect+explained+fireplaceei=UTF-8fr=FP-tab-web-tfl=0x=wrt Mike Ken Riznyk wrote: --- Appal Energy wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from dust or moisture in the atmosphere dissipating some of the sun's radiation. __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
RE: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Thanks Todd. Nice reply P. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
7Dear Appal, I must apologize for my post. People say that one of the problems with email is that you click the send button before you have a chance to sit back and cogitate about what you are saying. I certainly should have been more circumsect in my response. My only defense is that there is a lot of misinformation about global warming and people dissing global warming is one of my pet peeves. The most outragous statement about global warming I read in a respected magazine was that there was that in 1513 there was a great amount of global warming and none of the catastrophic events predicted ever happened. No mention was made of what scientific institution monitored temperatures around the globe in 1513, nor how they were able to measure the temperature since the thermometer was not invented until the 18th century. Ken --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, Bit of a presumption or two there, eh? One that there was an invite and two that if there were that I would care to parlay valuable time for such a distraction. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. I'd prefer to approach it as a gap in communication, aka a misunderstanding. There are far more destructive/debilitating practices out there, accomplished with intent no less, that need to be squashed or quarantined. I'd rather save my energies for those more notable occassions. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert No problem Todd. I gotcha, loud and clear. Even if Ken was 100% correct, I would have worded it a little differently and certainly would not have made presumptions as to what you don't know. That's just an invitation to a contest in which I prefer not to enter. Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, I just want to say that I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and let's move on. These kinds of exchanges can consume an awful lot of time and I think we all have bigger fish to fry. Mike Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, When two people say the same thing, one of them cannot be right and the other wrong. While that may be the reality of politics, that's not reality. Please see my reply to Ken's post. As well, Ken made more than one statement of absolutism. When you state that he is right, you lend to a perception that all of his statements are correct. Note was made of at least two points of error in two of his conclusions. While his qualifications are correct, as are yours, his declarations of wrongness are in error. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Ken is right. The statement 'colder than normal' means that someone else has a 'hotter than normal'. could only be true if the same amount of energy reaches the Earth's surface every day. Changes in the ozone layer changes the amount of energy reaching the Earths surface. The greenhouse effect addresses the Earth's ability to absorb or filter certain wave lengths of light. When you're in front of a large, open flame, you feel the heat radiated from the fire. Hold a pane of glass in front of your face and you will notice that it doesn't feel as hot. That's how I visualize the ozone layer at work. FYI: This isn't an original idea. Someone thought of this comparison long before me. http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=greenhouse+effect+explained+fireplaceei=UTF-8fr=FP-tab-web-tfl=0x=wrt Mike Ken Riznyk wrote: --- Appal Energy wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from dust or moisture in the atmosphere dissipating some of the sun's radiation. __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
the thermometer was not invented until the 18th century. Which means that in lieu of hardware they were using their tuckas to determine the temp to bake bread and warm formula? No argument with me on global warming. Here's a snip from a letter to a friend this evening. To put it in context, the nights here this past week have been better than asum. A large lunar mass offering miles of vis off crusted snow in normally dark woods, with erie reverbs of reflected light off wispy alto-cirrus haze and every planet and constellation in the sky vying for a seat in the show. I have this vision of the gulf stream conveyor belt coming to a halt, polar bears migrating to the mainland, stepping out from an underground bunker to go mining frozen trees for heat and construction under one-hundred feet of ice. UPS will deliver the grow lights to keep the veggies alive via dog sled. Hopefully they're still filling orders for new lamps and fixtures in Belize via satelite uplink. We'll use the one hundred foot drop of melted water surrounding the chimney to generate electricity for the computer. I hear LED's going to become the rage. Wonder if you can grow carrots under it? I wonder what the thermography's going to look like in different places around the world if the conveyor belt stops. Sure would put a chink in Shrub's expectations (to be read delusions) of economic parity after his recent partying on America's credit card. But then again, you can bank on such bastards having reserved a ring-side seat on some sand-dune-soon-to-be-lakefront for themselves at the taxpayer's expense. Let's just hope that the service industry there thinks as little of them as they did at home. Todd Swearingen Post Script: Ooops. According to the radical right, I'm supposed to get over not only what's happened contemporarily and historically, but what has yet to happen. My apologies for being so short sighted and having no genetic disposition equivalent to a door mat. Not! - Original Message - From: Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert 7Dear Appal, I must apologize for my post. People say that one of the problems with email is that you click the send button before you have a chance to sit back and cogitate about what you are saying. I certainly should have been more circumsect in my response. My only defense is that there is a lot of misinformation about global warming and people dissing global warming is one of my pet peeves. The most outragous statement about global warming I read in a respected magazine was that there was that in 1513 there was a great amount of global warming and none of the catastrophic events predicted ever happened. No mention was made of what scientific institution monitored temperatures around the globe in 1513, nor how they were able to measure the temperature since the thermometer was not invented until the 18th century. Ken --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, Bit of a presumption or two there, eh? One that there was an invite and two that if there were that I would care to parlay valuable time for such a distraction. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. I'd prefer to approach it as a gap in communication, aka a misunderstanding. There are far more destructive/debilitating practices out there, accomplished with intent no less, that need to be squashed or quarantined. I'd rather save my energies for those more notable occassions. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert No problem Todd. I gotcha, loud and clear. Even if Ken was 100% correct, I would have worded it a little differently and certainly would not have made presumptions as to what you don't know. That's just an invitation to a contest in which I prefer not to enter. Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, I just want to say that I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and let's move on. These kinds of exchanges can consume an awful lot of time and I think we all have bigger fish to fry. Mike Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, When two people say the same thing, one of them cannot be right and the other wrong. While that may be the reality of politics, that's not reality. Please see my reply to Ken's post. As well, Ken made more than one
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Michael, Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, Bit of a presumption or two there, eh? One that there was an invite and two that if there were that I would care to parlay valuable time for such a distraction. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. I'd prefer to approach it as a gap in communication, aka a misunderstanding. There are far more destructive/debilitating practices out there, accomplished with intent no less, that need to be squashed or quarantined. I'd rather save my energies for those more notable occassions. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. She's a nun, not a monk, and this is what she said (from previous): My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once remarked rather conversationally: It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. I haven't seen Prema for 20 years, but still we're friends and I'm sure we'll meet again. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. Prema wouldn't agree with that, neither would I. But I agree with the point you're making. Regards Keith It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert No problem Todd. I gotcha, loud and clear. Even if Ken was 100% correct, I would have worded it a little differently and certainly would not have made presumptions as to what you don't know. That's just an invitation to a contest in which I prefer not to enter. Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, I just want to say that I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and let's move on. These kinds of exchanges can consume an awful lot of time and I think we all have bigger fish to fry. Mike Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, When two people say the same thing, one of them cannot be right and the other wrong. While that may be the reality of politics, that's not reality. Please see my reply to Ken's post. As well, Ken made more than one statement of absolutism. When you state that he is right, you lend to a perception that all of his statements are correct. Note was made of at least two points of error in two of his conclusions. While his qualifications are correct, as are yours, his declarations of wrongness are in error. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Ken is right. The statement 'colder than normal' means that someone else has a 'hotter than normal'. could only be true if the same amount of energy reaches the Earth's surface every day. Changes in the ozone layer changes the amount of energy reaching the Earths surface. The greenhouse effect addresses the Earth's ability to absorb or filter certain wave lengths of light. When you're in front of a large, open flame, you feel the heat radiated from the fire. Hold a pane of glass in front of your face and you will notice that it doesn't feel as hot. That's how I visualize the ozone layer at work. FYI: This isn't an original idea. Someone thought of this comparison long before me. http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=greenhouse+effect+explained+firepl aceei=UTF-8fr=FP-tab-web-tfl=0x=wrt Mike Ken Riznyk wrote: --- Appal Energy wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from dust or moisture in the atmosphere dissipating some of the sun's radiation. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
It was off the cuff memory from someone Keith's known. My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once remarked rather conversationally: It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. We should all be so lucky as to have such friends. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Peggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 7:48 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Thanks Todd. Nice reply P. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Thought you might catch that loose reference. My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once remarked rather conversationally: It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. I looked high and low for the your previous mention of those words and couldn't find them. Sorry to not have a better filing system in order to quote more accurately, especially when it comes to wisdom of such brevity. It's somewhere in the midst of a 60 gig hard drive. Just can't seem to find it at the moment. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert Hello Todd Michael, Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, Bit of a presumption or two there, eh? One that there was an invite and two that if there were that I would care to parlay valuable time for such a distraction. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. I'd prefer to approach it as a gap in communication, aka a misunderstanding. There are far more destructive/debilitating practices out there, accomplished with intent no less, that need to be squashed or quarantined. I'd rather save my energies for those more notable occassions. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. She's a nun, not a monk, and this is what she said (from previous): My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once remarked rather conversationally: It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. I haven't seen Prema for 20 years, but still we're friends and I'm sure we'll meet again. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. Prema wouldn't agree with that, neither would I. But I agree with the point you're making. Regards Keith It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert No problem Todd. I gotcha, loud and clear. Even if Ken was 100% correct, I would have worded it a little differently and certainly would not have made presumptions as to what you don't know. That's just an invitation to a contest in which I prefer not to enter. Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, I just want to say that I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and let's move on. These kinds of exchanges can consume an awful lot of time and I think we all have bigger fish to fry. Mike Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, When two people say the same thing, one of them cannot be right and the other wrong. While that may be the reality of politics, that's not reality. Please see my reply to Ken's post. As well, Ken made more than one statement of absolutism. When you state that he is right, you lend to a perception that all of his statements are correct. Note was made of at least two points of error in two of his conclusions. While his qualifications are correct, as are yours, his declarations of wrongness are in error. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Ken is right. The statement 'colder than normal' means that someone else has a 'hotter than normal'. could only be true if the same amount of energy reaches the Earth's surface every day. Changes in the ozone layer changes the amount of energy reaching the Earths surface. The greenhouse effect addresses the Earth's ability to absorb or filter certain wave lengths of light. When you're in front of a large, open flame, you feel the heat radiated from the fire. Hold a pane of glass in front of your face and you will notice that it doesn't feel as hot. That's how I visualize the ozone layer at work. FYI: This isn't an original idea. Someone thought of this comparison long before me. http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=greenhouse+effect+explained+firepl aceei=UTF-8fr=FP-tab-web-tfl=0x=wrt Mike Ken Riznyk wrote: --- Appal Energy wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Thank you Keith. Thought you might catch that loose reference. My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once remarked rather conversationally: It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. If she'd said it to you you'd remember it. It was her conversational tone as much as anything else, in the normal frame of reference it was quite at odds with the content: Would you like another cup of tea Vicar? Not! She's great! I looked high and low for the your previous mention of those words and couldn't find them. Sorry to not have a better filing system in order to quote more accurately, especially when it comes to wisdom of such brevity. It's somewhere in the midst of a 60 gig hard drive. Just can't seem to find it at the moment. Well, that *is* equivalent to about 60,000 hard-copy books, after all. :-) No need to break a gut Todd, or waste too much time - please just ask if you think I can help you find something. Have you tried any of the new so-called Desktop Search engines, from Google and others? Quick full-text search of your whole hard-disk. I haven't tried them (not for Macs, yet), but I use other full-text searches all the time, highly recommended. Regards Keith Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert Hello Todd Michael, Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, Bit of a presumption or two there, eh? One that there was an invite and two that if there were that I would care to parlay valuable time for such a distraction. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. I'd prefer to approach it as a gap in communication, aka a misunderstanding. There are far more destructive/debilitating practices out there, accomplished with intent no less, that need to be squashed or quarantined. I'd rather save my energies for those more notable occassions. What is it that the Buddhist monk said? It's not often a person gets the chance to be a human. It's a shame to waste it. Or something rather close to that. She's a nun, not a monk, and this is what she said (from previous): My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once remarked rather conversationally: It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. I haven't seen Prema for 20 years, but still we're friends and I'm sure we'll meet again. We're only given so much time and one existance to expend it. Prema wouldn't agree with that, neither would I. But I agree with the point you're making. Regards Keith It would be a shame to squander it on those things that yield no fruit.. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert No problem Todd. I gotcha, loud and clear. Even if Ken was 100% correct, I would have worded it a little differently and certainly would not have made presumptions as to what you don't know. That's just an invitation to a contest in which I prefer not to enter. Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, I just want to say that I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and let's move on. These kinds of exchanges can consume an awful lot of time and I think we all have bigger fish to fry. Mike snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
--- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from dust or moisture in the atmosphere dissipating some of the sun's radiation. __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
How can you proclaim NOT TRUE and then come back two sentences later and say to be true exactly what you declared to be NOT TRUE? If you went back to the post, my statements only relay that just because someone says that they're freezing their tuckas off more than they ever have before at one geographic location doesn't mean that the world isn't warming. It also implies that the human tuckas is not much of an indicator of actual temperature. Nor is the barometer that rests on the shoulders of the person who relies on their tuckas as an absolute indicator. Just because I don't choose to lay out a step-by-step, Ned and the Primer explanation of the total picture - both causes and effects - everytime a denialist raises his head doesn't mean that there is any lack of understanding of the mechanisms, contributors and consequences. I take it you didn't go to the web addy that was provided in the post? http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0130-11.htm It made note of how one of the consequences of global warming could all too likely be global cooling. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from dust or moisture in the atmosphere dissipating some of the sun's radiation. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Ken is right. The statement 'colder than normal' means that someone else has a 'hotter than normal'. could only be true if the same amount of energy reaches the Earth's surface every day. Changes in the ozone layer changes the amount of energy reaching the Earths surface. The greenhouse effect addresses the Earth's ability to absorb or filter certain wave lengths of light. When you're in front of a large, open flame, you feel the heat radiated from the fire. Hold a pane of glass in front of your face and you will notice that it doesn't feel as hot. That's how I visualize the ozone layer at work. FYI: This isn't an original idea. Someone thought of this comparison long before me. http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=greenhouse+effect+explained+fireplaceei=UTF-8fr=FP-tab-web-tfl=0x=wrt Mike Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Appal Energy wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from dust or moisture in the atmosphere dissipating some of the sun's radiation. __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Todd, I think I stepped in something here. I don't agree 100% with Kens explanation. But, he does address how heat energy absorbed by the Earth can vary due to green house gasses. I'm stepping away from this one if it turns confrontational. It's not worth the time and ENERGY and I'm sorry if there was a misunderstanding. Mike Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ken, How can you proclaim NOT TRUE and then come back two sentences later and say to be true exactly what you declared to be NOT TRUE? If you went back to the post, my statements only relay that just because someone says that they're freezing their tuckas off more than they ever have before at one geographic location doesn't mean that the world isn't warming. It also implies that the human tuckas is not much of an indicator of actual temperature. Nor is the barometer that rests on the shoulders of the person who relies on their tuckas as an absolute indicator. Just because I don't choose to lay out a step-by-step, Ned and the Primer explanation of the total picture - both causes and effects - everytime a denialist raises his head doesn't mean that there is any lack of understanding of the mechanisms, contributors and consequences. I take it you didn't go to the web addy that was provided in the post? http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0130-11.htm It made note of how one of the consequences of global warming could all too likely be global cooling. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Ken Riznyk To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert --- Appal Energy wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from dust or moisture in the atmosphere dissipating some of the sun's radiation. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
When two people say the same thing, one of them cannot be right and the other wrong. While that may be the reality of politics, that's not reality. Please see my reply to Ken's post. As well, Ken made more than one statement of absolutism. When you state that he is right, you lend to a perception that all of his statements are correct. Note was made of at least two points of error in two of his conclusions. While his qualifications are correct, as are yours, his declarations of wrongness are in error. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Ken is right. The statement 'colder than normal' means that someone else has a 'hotter than normal'. could only be true if the same amount of energy reaches the Earth's surface every day. Changes in the ozone layer changes the amount of energy reaching the Earths surface. The greenhouse effect addresses the Earth's ability to absorb or filter certain wave lengths of light. When you're in front of a large, open flame, you feel the heat radiated from the fire. Hold a pane of glass in front of your face and you will notice that it doesn't feel as hot. That's how I visualize the ozone layer at work. FYI: This isn't an original idea. Someone thought of this comparison long before me. http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=greenhouse+effect+explained+fireplaceei=UTF-8fr=FP-tab-web-tfl=0x=wrt Mike Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Appal Energy wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from dust or moisture in the atmosphere dissipating some of the sun's radiation. __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
No problem Todd. I gotcha, loud and clear. Even if Ken was 100% correct, I would have worded it a little differently and certainly would not have made presumptions as to what you don't know. That's just an invitation to a contest in which I prefer not to enter. Since you seem ready to accept such an invitation, I just want to say that I'm sorry about the misunderstanding and let's move on. These kinds of exchanges can consume an awful lot of time and I think we all have bigger fish to fry. Mike Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, When two people say the same thing, one of them cannot be right and the other wrong. While that may be the reality of politics, that's not reality. Please see my reply to Ken's post. As well, Ken made more than one statement of absolutism. When you state that he is right, you lend to a perception that all of his statements are correct. Note was made of at least two points of error in two of his conclusions. While his qualifications are correct, as are yours, his declarations of wrongness are in error. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Ken is right. The statement 'colder than normal' means that someone else has a 'hotter than normal'. could only be true if the same amount of energy reaches the Earth's surface every day. Changes in the ozone layer changes the amount of energy reaching the Earths surface. The greenhouse effect addresses the Earth's ability to absorb or filter certain wave lengths of light. When you're in front of a large, open flame, you feel the heat radiated from the fire. Hold a pane of glass in front of your face and you will notice that it doesn't feel as hot. That's how I visualize the ozone layer at work. FYI: This isn't an original idea. Someone thought of this comparison long before me. http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=greenhouse+effect+explained+fireplaceei=UTF-8fr=FP-tab-web-tfl=0x=wrt Mike Ken Riznyk wrote: --- Appal Energy wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. NOT TRUE You statement shows that you do not understand the greenhouse effect. The sun may radiate about the same amount of heat but the earth also radiates heat, the greenhouse gases trap some of that radiation - hence global warming. Global cooling could result from dust or moisture in the atmosphere dissipating some of the sun's radiation. __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
snip Think global warming's bad? Wait till you see global cooling. http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0130-11.htm Todd Swearingen snip Good piece by Thom Hartmann, as usual. This below is part of a previous discussion here in 2003, between me and MM, which you might find interesting: Interestingly, as a followup, the one response I got there was that the possibility of global cooling is not getting enough attention. The author nearly descended into vituperation (obviously my little post must have been super-provocative), though that was not directed precisely against me either. That was the view in the late 60s, and indeed much earlier, up to as much as a century ago I think. Since the early 1980s at least more and better data, better ways of crunching it, further studies, have increasingly indicated the opposite, now overwhelmingly so. I don't think global cooling has been entirely disproved, but it's heavily outweighed. In 1982 a book appeared called The Survival of Civilization, written by a strange person named John D. Hamaker, which predicted global cooling. He paints a picture of rising CO2 levels triggering a sudden and catastrophic ice age. He sees it as a regular phenomenon, tracing it back through the last 17 ice ages, or something like that. The mechanism is that the topsoil runs out of minerals, leading to a decrease in the amount of biomass and a consequent release of CO2 into the atmosphere, which at first triggers warming and then an ice age. The ice grinds up a huge amount of surface rock into dust, as glaciers do but on a much vaster scale, finally retreating to leave a remineralised soil behind via the rock dust. It's quite a persuasive picture, and he does have his evidence for it. He reckons this time we've simply hastened the onset of the process with our fossil-fuel CO2 releases. He also proposes arresting the process by remineralising the land worldwide with rock dust. He even designed a handy machine to grind up rocks on the spot. I read the book at the time (a convert friend sent it to me). It's a cranky book but there's quite a lot of sense in it, particularly about soil mineralisation, but I didn't accept the main conclusion that a rapid transition to a new ice-age was imminent: The broad truth is that without radical and immediate reform (particularly in this nation [the US]), civilization will be wrecked by 1990 and extinct by 1995. Well, maybe he just got the timing wrong. Or was he right and we just didn't notice? :-) He was ignored by the science community (which probably means he's either a misguided nut or a great prophet). And now it's become a bit of a cult book on the Internet, bad timing notwithstanding. You can find it online (pdf) here, FWIW: http://www.remineralize.org/don/tsoc.pdf or here: http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010146tsoc.pdf So we'll fry or we'll freeze, or something. But certainly something. And it definitely makes sense to cut the fossil fuels, but fast. I wondered whether it wasn't Hamaker who inspired that silly movie, I forget it's name: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/35379/1/ And also Andrew Marshall's perhaps equally silly Pentagon report (or maybe the movie did that): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/32387/ Weathering the Crisis - World Bank, Pentagon: global warming red alert http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/32446/ Pentagon Goes Crazy for Massive Climate Change See: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Andrew_Marshall Andrew Marshall - SourceWatch ... along with acolytes Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and many others, including the odious Thomas P.M. Barnett: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050110/004788.html [Biofuel] Oil politics trumps everything. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
however, I can feel the difference of several degrees below average. I was in the US Navy for 5 years and went all over the globe (from Kenya to Florida, not the Atlantic and Europe). The winters were quite cold in some places and fairly warm in other places. The summers were quite hot in some places and not so hot in other places. I have been a pilot car driver since 1996 and have travelled from Miami, Florida to Blaine, Washington and from Los Angeles, California to Nova Scotia and from Mexico to various provinces in Canada at different times of the year. Sometimes I ask people I come into contact with if it is always that cold (wherever I am) there and sometimes I am told, No, usually it is a lot warmer. Sometimes it us the opposite. Other times I ask if it is always that hot (wherever I am) there and I am told, No, usually it is not this hot. In other places sometimes it is hotter than usual, other places, not. Yes, the world has droughts, heat waves etc. in various parts of it, but that has been going on for thousands of years (check archeological findings) and even at the arctic regions extinct animals have been found with tropical plants in their stomachs. I did look over the NASA site about If there is global warming, why am I freezing my butt off? It is interesting, but it seems it was pinpointing on a month or a season of deviation, though it mentioned dates in the 1800's. The weatherman that I watch usually puts the record highs and record lows on each day. These records stretch across a century. So, I am wondering if outside forces have anything to do with anything here (sun spots, jet stream paths, gravitational pull of the various bodies, R-12 being released in huge amounts during NASA rocket lift offs, commercial corporations' agendas which ties into political agendas, etc). When temperatures deviate from the norm (what the heck is that, anyway), depending on the depth of deviation, it can throw the averages off quite a bit. And statistics have been proven to be great avenues of misinformation. By the way, who or what was blamed for the end of the ice age (wall street, no doubt - works for me :-0)? Mick From: Andrew Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:21:14 -0500 Mick, Can you feel the difference of 1 degree increase on average? Andy On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:56:42 -0600, Mickey *B** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I sit here freezing, in temperatures colder than normal, I have a hard time swallowing the global warming concept. Mick _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee¨ Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
I would like to see (if anyone has the data) temperature trending where the period is not days/months/years, but *decades* or *centuries*. It appears from that link and the associated links, that we have gone from a period of unusual colder than average around 1950 to more of a *slightly* warmer average in 2000. http://www.giss.nasa.gov/data/update/gistemp/warm_stations/ So, yes, it appears to be global warming but warming to what average or expected temperature?? What is the natural AVERAGE temperature for the Earth and the various latitudes, and what is the natural variation? --Randall - Original Message - From: Andrew Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Mick, Can you feel the difference of 1 degree increase on average? Andy On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:56:42 -0600, Mickey *B** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I sit here freezing, in temperatures colder than normal, I have a hard time swallowing the global warming concept. Mick From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 03:22:33 +0900 http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0123-01.htm Published on Sunday, January 23, 2005 by the lndependent/UK Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert by Geoffrey Lean Global warning has already hit the danger point that international attempts to curb it are designed to avoid, according to the world's top climate watchdog. snipped for brevity ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. And due to the fact that neither hotter than normal and colder than normal are exactly quantitative in their expression, it's all rather hard to put much weight on such itinerate data. Doesn't mean that you can't have a difficult time believing it. But nor does it mean that just because something gets stuck in one's craw that it's not a reality. Think global warming's bad? Wait till you see global cooling. http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0130-11.htm Todd Swearingen - Yeah, what is normal anyway except some people claiming to be meteorologists say they have been taking the temperature of a certain location for umpteen years and such and such temperature is normal? It is a clever setup, this world of ours. One would think that the constant twirling of the winds and the natural dissipation of higher temperatures to lower temperatures would eventually give us a somewhat even temperature all around the globe, but no! We still have hot spots and cold spots and in-between spots. Heck, it even snowed south of San Antonio, Texas this winter without so much as a small layer of frost on my yard. Of course, there are other sources of heat, such as from forest fires, lightning, mammalian bodies, internal combustion engines, burning oil fields and volcanoes, bar-b-que pits, friction, those of us who are full of hot air :-), etc. And, yes, reality exists whether or not we believe it. Mick _ Donât just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
ocean current is messed up from global warming from greenhouse gases... and this causes totally wird weather kinda like 4 hurricanes in a month in Florida this year... well probbly not.. The time span in the movie was a little unrealistic...normal to ice age in a few days.. It could make a person think... And It did, Some people who seen the movie freeked out, thinking this actually going to happen at any time.. they had to issue warnings that this was a work of fiction and events would not happen like in the movie.. RayJ Appal Energy wrote: Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much heat per minute, hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. And due to the fact that neither hotter than normal and colder than normal are exactly quantitative in their expression, it's all rather hard to put much weight on such itinerate data. Doesn't mean that you can't have a difficult time believing it. But nor does it mean that just because something gets stuck in one's craw that it's not a reality. Think global warming's bad? Wait till you see global cooling. http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0130-11.htm ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
I believe one degree is the difference between water or ice. Mick, Can you feel the difference of 1 degree increase on average? Andy As I sit here freezing, in temperatures colder than normal, I have a hard time swallowing the global warming concept. Mick SECOND TERM: MUCH OF BUSH AGENDA IS FAITH-BASED However, the devil is in the details. -- ironictimes.com What to Do If You Find Yourself in a Pit of Quicksand 1. Remain calm. Panic doesn't help. 2. Assess the situation. 3. Whatever the result of the assessment, DO NOT leave the quicksand. This is the same as admitting you made a mistake. 4. Stay the course. Your friends and enemies will gain respect for you if you persevere. 5. Ask others to join you in the quicksand. 6. If nobody joins you, never mind: continue in the same direction, deeper into the pit. 7. Talk about something else. Maybe nobody will notice you're sinking. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0123-01.htm Published on Sunday, January 23, 2005 by the lndependent/UK Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert by Geoffrey Lean Global warning has already hit the danger point that international attempts to curb it are designed to avoid, according to the world's top climate watchdog. Dr Rajendra Pachauri, the chairman of the official Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), told an international conference attended by 114 governments in Mauritius this month that he personally believes that the world has already reached the level of dangerous concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and called for immediate and very deep cuts in the pollution if humanity is to survive. His comments rocked the Bush administration - which immediately tried to slap him down - not least because it put him in his post after Exxon, the major oil company most opposed to international action on global warming, complained that his predecessor was too aggressive on the issue. A memorandum from Exxon to the White House in early 2001 specifically asked it to get the previous chairman, Dr Robert Watson, the chief scientist of the World Bank, replaced at the request of the US. The Bush administration then lobbied other countries in favor of Dr Pachauri - whom the former vice-president Al Gore called the let's drag our feet candidate, and got him elected to replace Dr Watson, a British-born naturalized American, who had repeatedly called for urgent action. But this month, at a conference of Small Island Developing States on the Indian Ocean island, the new chairman, a former head of India's Tata Energy Research Institute, himself issued what top United Nations officials described as a very courageous challenge. He told delegates: Climate change is for real. We have just a small window of opportunity and it is closing rather rapidly. There is not a moment to lose. Afterwards he told The Independent on Sunday that widespread dying of coral reefs, and rapid melting of ice in the Arctic, had driven him to the conclusion that the danger point the IPCC had been set up to avoid had already been reached. Reefs throughout the world are perishing as the seas warm up: as water temperatures rise, they lose their colors and turn a ghostly white. Partly as a result, up to a quarter of the world's corals have been destroyed. And in November, a multi-year study by 300 scientists concluded that the Arctic was warming twice as fast as the rest of the world and that its ice-cap had shrunk by up to 20 per cent in the past three decades. The ice is also 40 per cent thinner than it was in the 1970s and is expected to disappear altogether by 2070. And while Dr Pachauri was speaking parts of the Arctic were having a January heatwave, with temperatures eight to nine degrees centigrade higher than normal. He also cited alarming measurements, first reported in The Independent on Sunday, showing that levels of carbon dioxide (the main cause of global warming) have leapt abruptly over the past two years, suggesting that climate change may be accelerating out of control. He added that, because of inertia built into the Earth's natural systems, the world was now only experiencing the result of pollution emitted in the 1960s, and much greater effects would occur as the increased pollution of later decades worked its way through. He concluded: We are risking the ability of the human race to survive. © 2005 Independent News Media (UK) Ltd. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
I believe one degree is the difference between water or ice. Nope. One degre is the difference between 1 degree and 0 degree water. The difference between the solid and liquid state of matter is several times bigger. Ice has a lot more energy trapped inside then just the deltaT of 1. But global warming is, AFAIK, measured by air T (mean values over a period, dunno what period). 1 degree of deltaT of air is very hard to feel in still air. BTW, I feel the effects of global warming. We haven't got any snow this winter. It's not a lot warmer on average, but we had few days in january reaching about 10 degC (on the + side). In a country that hosts 4 ski WC events and several nordic events ... The most recent woman's slalom and Gslalom races in Maribor were organized entirely on artificially made snow. Both tracks were soaked with rain a couple of days before the race, making the whole effort almost melt away. Cheers, Aleks Mick, Can you feel the difference of 1 degree increase on average? Andy As I sit here freezing, in temperatures colder than normal, I have a hard time swallowing the global warming concept. Mick snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
I think that I have to disagree with both of you, it is less than 1 degree. The difference between water and ice at 1 atm at 0 degrees C is 0 degrees. Andy On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:27:47 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe one degree is the difference between water or ice. Nope. One degre is the difference between 1 degree and 0 degree water. The difference between the solid and liquid state of matter is several times bigger. Ice has a lot more energy trapped inside then just the deltaT of 1. But global warming is, AFAIK, measured by air T (mean values over a period, dunno what period). 1 degree of deltaT of air is very hard to feel in still air. BTW, I feel the effects of global warming. We haven't got any snow this winter. It's not a lot warmer on average, but we had few days in january reaching about 10 degC (on the + side). In a country that hosts 4 ski WC events and several nordic events ... The most recent woman's slalom and Gslalom races in Maribor were organized entirely on artificially made snow. Both tracks were soaked with rain a couple of days before the race, making the whole effort almost melt away. Cheers, Aleks Mick, Can you feel the difference of 1 degree increase on average? Andy As I sit here freezing, in temperatures colder than normal, I have a hard time swallowing the global warming concept. Mick snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Mickey, Weather changes. Sometimes it is hotter than usual by 20 degrees sometimes it is colder. This has nothing to do with global warming. As for releasing R-12, I think it was banned for most uses because it effects global warming and the ozone layer. I think you still need to read up on what global warming means. As for using January, I would guess that is just a point of reference. If you don't trust statistics done by other people, you could go out and get the daily average temperatures arounds the world and do the math yourself. Would take you a long time to do it right though, but you could do february instead of january. Andy On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:15:23 -0600, Mickey *B** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I don't think I can feel the difference of 1 degree increase on average, however, I can feel the difference of several degrees below average. I was in the US Navy for 5 years and went all over the globe (from Kenya to Florida, not the Atlantic and Europe). The winters were quite cold in some places and fairly warm in other places. The summers were quite hot in some places and not so hot in other places. I have been a pilot car driver since 1996 and have travelled from Miami, Florida to Blaine, Washington and from Los Angeles, California to Nova Scotia and from Mexico to various provinces in Canada at different times of the year. Sometimes I ask people I come into contact with if it is always that cold (wherever I am) there and sometimes I am told, No, usually it is a lot warmer. Sometimes it us the opposite. Other times I ask if it is always that hot (wherever I am) there and I am told, No, usually it is not this hot. In other places sometimes it is hotter than usual, other places, not. Yes, the world has droughts, heat waves etc. in various parts of it, but that has been going on for thousands of years (check archeological findings) and even at the arctic regions extinct animals have been found with tropical plants in their stomachs. I did look over the NASA site about If there is global warming, why am I freezing my butt off? It is interesting, but it seems it was pinpointing on a month or a season of deviation, though it mentioned dates in the 1800's. The weatherman that I watch usually puts the record highs and record lows on each day. These records stretch across a century. So, I am wondering if outside forces have anything to do with anything here (sun spots, jet stream paths, gravitational pull of the various bodies, R-12 being released in huge amounts during NASA rocket lift offs, commercial corporations' agendas which ties into political agendas, etc). When temperatures deviate from the norm (what the heck is that, anyway), depending on the depth of deviation, it can throw the averages off quite a bit. And statistics have been proven to be great avenues of misinformation. By the way, who or what was blamed for the end of the ice age (wall street, no doubt - works for me :-0)? Mick From: Andrew Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:21:14 -0500 Mick, Can you feel the difference of 1 degree increase on average? Andy On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:56:42 -0600, Mickey *B** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I sit here freezing, in temperatures colder than normal, I have a hard time swallowing the global warming concept. Mick _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee¨ Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
If you don't trust statistics done by other people, you could go out and get the daily average temperatures arounds the world and do the math yourself. I did exactly that this week. My friend sent me two hinky graphs that supposedly showed a warming trend warming trend for the globe but not the US. The argument (which I don't agree with anyway) was that if global warming is real, then the US data should show the same trend: since it does not, the data itself is suspect. So I went to NASA, got the orignal data and replotted the graphs myself. Amazingly, the warming trends were very similar in both datasets. These trends were skillfully obfuscated in the original graphs. Heres the whole story: http://blog.john-hayes.com/?postid=74 I'm not trying to be an arm-chair climatologist - god knows my own research takes enough time and effort - but I wanted to illustrate that even a simple X-Y plot can be cooked if the analyst has an agenda. But little things, like checking the scale on the axis, can go a long way to preventing such fraud. jh ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Mickey *B** - Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
You're a newcomer here, that was your first post, and you're making some wrong assumptions. For one, it seems you're assuming that everyone else is a newcomer too, that the list itself is a newcomer and has no history. It has five years of history (43,000 messages, thousands of members), and all this has been thrashed out before, many times. Thrashing it out all over again just for your sake would be (is being!) tedious. So, as Ken said, please go and do your homework before you start opinionating about all this here again. The list archives is not a bad place to start (as recommended when you joined). As it is, however much you've travelled and haven't travelled, you're still going to see what you want to see and not see what you don't want to see, as is evident. Dressing this 20 years out-of-date denialist crap up as a valid contemporary argument just won't wash here. None of us has *anything* to thank this denialism for, quite the opposite - 20 years wasted, and now it could be too late, thankyou very much indeed. Twenty years ago people were muddying this issue by confusing climate with weather like you're doing. Give us a break, eh? Your views are only possible if you're unaware of a huge amount of research, that has been well reported, even in the US. Without that information you're not qualified to argue about it. Go and educate yourself please. You're simply demonstrating how true this is (with very many exceptions): http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050124/005160.html [Biofuel] Dream On America The rest of the planet gave up on the denial angle long ago, and so did most of your own backyard, including most of your very own national treasures of US climate-change denialism, such as the Senate, the Pentagon, even the White House when forced. Try these, for starters (please do!): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/32435/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/32566/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37934/ Plenty more there. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner No, I don't think I can feel the difference of 1 degree increase on average, however, I can feel the difference of several degrees below average. I was in the US Navy for 5 years and went all over the globe (from Kenya to Florida, not the Atlantic and Europe). The winters were quite cold in some places and fairly warm in other places. The summers were quite hot in some places and not so hot in other places. I have been a pilot car driver since 1996 and have travelled from Miami, Florida to Blaine, Washington and from Los Angeles, California to Nova Scotia and from Mexico to various provinces in Canada at different times of the year. Sometimes I ask people I come into contact with if it is always that cold (wherever I am) there and sometimes I am told, No, usually it is a lot warmer. Sometimes it us the opposite. Other times I ask if it is always that hot (wherever I am) there and I am told, No, usually it is not this hot. In other places sometimes it is hotter than usual, other places, not. Yes, the world has droughts, heat waves etc. in various parts of it, but that has been going on for thousands of years (check archeological findings) and even at the arctic regions extinct animals have been found with tropical plants in their stomachs. I did look over the NASA site about If there is global warming, why am I freezing my butt off? It is interesting, but it seems it was pinpointing on a month or a season of deviation, though it mentioned dates in the 1800's. The weatherman that I watch usually puts the record highs and record lows on each day. These records stretch across a century. So, I am wondering if outside forces have anything to do with anything here (sun spots, jet stream paths, gravitational pull of the various bodies, R-12 being released in huge amounts during NASA rocket lift offs, commercial corporations' agendas which ties into political agendas, etc). When temperatures deviate from the norm (what the heck is that, anyway), depending on the depth of deviation, it can throw the averages off quite a bit. And statistics have been proven to be great avenues of misinformation. By the way, who or what was blamed for the end of the ice age (wall street, no doubt - works for me :-0)? Mick From: Andrew Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:21:14 -0500 Mick, Can you feel the difference of 1 degree increase on average? Andy On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:56:42 -0600, Mickey *B** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I sit here freezing, in temperatures colder than normal, I have a hard time swallowing the global warming concept. Mick And... Considering the fact that the sun only radiates so much
Re: Mickey *B** - Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
By the way US has not signed Kyoto yet... Stelios Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mick You're a newcomer here, that was your first post, and you're making some wrong assumptions. For one, it seems you're assuming that everyone else is a newcomer too, that the list itself is a newcomer and has no history. It has five years of history (43,000 messages, thousands of members), and all this has been thrashed out before, many times. Thrashing it out all over again just for your sake would be (is being!) tedious. So, as Ken said, please go and do your homework before you start opinionating about all this here again. The list archives is not a bad place to start (as recommended when you joined). As it is, however much you've travelled and haven't travelled, you're still going to see what you want to see and not see what you don't want to see, as is evident. Dressing this 20 years out-of-date denialist crap up as a valid contemporary argument just won't wash here. None of us has *anything* to thank this denialism for, quite the opposite - 20 years wasted, and now it could be too late, thankyou very much indeed. Twenty years ago people were muddying this issue by confusing climate with weather like you're doing. Give us a break, eh? Your views are only possible if you're unaware of a huge amount of research, that has been well reported, even in the US. Without that information you're not qualified to argue about it. Go and educate yourself please. You're simply demonstrating how true this is (with very many exceptions): http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050124/005160.html [Biofuel] Dream On America The rest of the planet gave up on the denial angle long ago, and so did most of your own backyard, including most of your very own national treasures of US climate-change denialism, such as the Senate, the Pentagon, even the White House when forced. Try these, for starters (please do!): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/32435/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/32566/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37934/ Plenty more there. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner No, I don't think I can feel the difference of 1 degree increase on average, however, I can feel the difference of several degrees below average. I was in the US Navy for 5 years and went all over the globe (from Kenya to Florida, not the Atlantic and Europe). The winters were quite cold in some places and fairly warm in other places. The summers were quite hot in some places and not so hot in other places. I have been a pilot car driver since 1996 and have travelled from Miami, Florida to Blaine, Washington and from Los Angeles, California to Nova Scotia and from Mexico to various provinces in Canada at different times of the year. Sometimes I ask people I come into contact with if it is always that cold (wherever I am) there and sometimes I am told, No, usually it is a lot warmer. Sometimes it us the opposite. Other times I ask if it is always that hot (wherever I am) there and I am told, No, usually it is not this hot. In other places sometimes it is hotter than usual, other places, not. Yes, the world has droughts, heat waves etc. in various parts of it, but that has been going on for thousands of years (check archeological findings) and even at the arctic regions extinct animals have been found with tropical plants in their stomachs. I did look over the NASA site about If there is global warming, why am I freezing my butt off? It is interesting, but it seems it was pinpointing on a month or a season of deviation, though it mentioned dates in the 1800's. The weatherman that I watch usually puts the record highs and record lows on each day. These records stretch across a century. So, I am wondering if outside forces have anything to do with anything here (sun spots, jet stream paths, gravitational pull of the various bodies, R-12 being released in huge amounts during NASA rocket lift offs, commercial corporations' agendas which ties into political agendas, etc). When temperatures deviate from the norm (what the heck is that, anyway), depending on the depth of deviation, it can throw the averages off quite a bit. And statistics have been proven to be great avenues of misinformation. By the way, who or what was blamed for the end of the ice age (wall street, no doubt - works for me :-0)? Mick From: Andrew Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:21:14 -0500 Mick, Can you feel the difference of 1 degree increase on average? Andy On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:56:42 -0600, Mickey *B** [EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
time swallowing the global warming concept. Mick From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 03:22:33 +0900 http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0123-01.htm Published on Sunday, January 23, 2005 by the lndependent/UK Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert by Geoffrey Lean Global warning has already hit the danger point that international attempts to curb it are designed to avoid, according to the world's top climate watchdog. Dr Rajendra Pachauri, the chairman of the official Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), told an international conference attended by 114 governments in Mauritius this month that he personally believes that the world has already reached the level of dangerous concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and called for immediate and very deep cuts in the pollution if humanity is to survive. His comments rocked the Bush administration - which immediately tried to slap him down - not least because it put him in his post after Exxon, the major oil company most opposed to international action on global warming, complained that his predecessor was too aggressive on the issue. A memorandum from Exxon to the White House in early 2001 specifically asked it to get the previous chairman, Dr Robert Watson, the chief scientist of the World Bank, replaced at the request of the US. The Bush administration then lobbied other countries in favor of Dr Pachauri - whom the former vice-president Al Gore called the let's drag our feet candidate, and got him elected to replace Dr Watson, a British-born naturalized American, who had repeatedly called for urgent action. But this month, at a conference of Small Island Developing States on the Indian Ocean island, the new chairman, a former head of India's Tata Energy Research Institute, himself issued what top United Nations officials described as a very courageous challenge. He told delegates: Climate change is for real. We have just a small window of opportunity and it is closing rather rapidly. There is not a moment to lose. Afterwards he told The Independent on Sunday that widespread dying of coral reefs, and rapid melting of ice in the Arctic, had driven him to the conclusion that the danger point the IPCC had been set up to avoid had already been reached. Reefs throughout the world are perishing as the seas warm up: as water temperatures rise, they lose their colors and turn a ghostly white. Partly as a result, up to a quarter of the world's corals have been destroyed. And in November, a multi-year study by 300 scientists concluded that the Arctic was warming twice as fast as the rest of the world and that its ice-cap had shrunk by up to 20 per cent in the past three decades. The ice is also 40 per cent thinner than it was in the 1970s and is expected to disappear altogether by 2070. And while Dr Pachauri was speaking parts of the Arctic were having a January heatwave, with temperatures eight to nine degrees centigrade higher than normal. He also cited alarming measurements, first reported in The Independent on Sunday, showing that levels of carbon dioxide (the main cause of global warming) have leapt abruptly over the past two years, suggesting that climate change may be accelerating out of control. He added that, because of inertia built into the Earth's natural systems, the world was now only experiencing the result of pollution emitted in the 1960s, and much greater effects would occur as the increased pollution of later decades worked its way through. He concluded: We are risking the ability of the human race to survive. © 2005 Independent News Media (UK) Ltd. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
As I sit here freezing, in temperatures colder than normal, I have a hard time swallowing the global warming concept. In that case, NASA has a nice little page called If There's Global Warming, Why Am I Freezing My Buns Off? that you should read. You can find it here. http://www.giss.nasa.gov/data/update/gistemp/Januaries/ jh ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Mick, Can you feel the difference of 1 degree increase on average? Andy On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:56:42 -0600, Mickey *B** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I sit here freezing, in temperatures colder than normal, I have a hard time swallowing the global warming concept. Mick From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 03:22:33 +0900 http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0123-01.htm Published on Sunday, January 23, 2005 by the lndependent/UK Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert by Geoffrey Lean Global warning has already hit the danger point that international attempts to curb it are designed to avoid, according to the world's top climate watchdog. Dr Rajendra Pachauri, the chairman of the official Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), told an international conference attended by 114 governments in Mauritius this month that he personally believes that the world has already reached the level of dangerous concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and called for immediate and very deep cuts in the pollution if humanity is to survive. His comments rocked the Bush administration - which immediately tried to slap him down - not least because it put him in his post after Exxon, the major oil company most opposed to international action on global warming, complained that his predecessor was too aggressive on the issue. A memorandum from Exxon to the White House in early 2001 specifically asked it to get the previous chairman, Dr Robert Watson, the chief scientist of the World Bank, replaced at the request of the US. The Bush administration then lobbied other countries in favor of Dr Pachauri - whom the former vice-president Al Gore called the let's drag our feet candidate, and got him elected to replace Dr Watson, a British-born naturalized American, who had repeatedly called for urgent action. But this month, at a conference of Small Island Developing States on the Indian Ocean island, the new chairman, a former head of India's Tata Energy Research Institute, himself issued what top United Nations officials described as a very courageous challenge. He told delegates: Climate change is for real. We have just a small window of opportunity and it is closing rather rapidly. There is not a moment to lose. Afterwards he told The Independent on Sunday that widespread dying of coral reefs, and rapid melting of ice in the Arctic, had driven him to the conclusion that the danger point the IPCC had been set up to avoid had already been reached. Reefs throughout the world are perishing as the seas warm up: as water temperatures rise, they lose their colors and turn a ghostly white. Partly as a result, up to a quarter of the world's corals have been destroyed. And in November, a multi-year study by 300 scientists concluded that the Arctic was warming twice as fast as the rest of the world and that its ice-cap had shrunk by up to 20 per cent in the past three decades. The ice is also 40 per cent thinner than it was in the 1970s and is expected to disappear altogether by 2070. And while Dr Pachauri was speaking parts of the Arctic were having a January heatwave, with temperatures eight to nine degrees centigrade higher than normal. He also cited alarming measurements, first reported in The Independent on Sunday, showing that levels of carbon dioxide (the main cause of global warming) have leapt abruptly over the past two years, suggesting that climate change may be accelerating out of control. He added that, because of inertia built into the Earth's natural systems, the world was now only experiencing the result of pollution emitted in the 1960s, and much greater effects would occur as the increased pollution of later decades worked its way through. He concluded: We are risking the ability of the human race to survive. © 2005 Independent News Media (UK) Ltd. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel
RE: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 it's not Minnasota we have to worry about, it's the arctic and antarctica. when the polar ice caps melt we will all be in deep water. mel and yes the jet streams may shift so weather is not indicative of GLOBAL trends. you may be warmer or colder than historical averages. but the POLES are warming and the permafrost is melting -Original Message- From: Mickey *B** [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 1/26/2005 9:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert As I sit here freezing, in temperatures colder than normal, I have a hard time swallowing the global warming concept. Mick From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 03:22:33 +0900 http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0123-01.htm Published on Sunday, January 23, 2005 by the lndependent/UK Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert by Geoffrey Lean Global warning has already hit the danger point that international attempts to curb it are designed to avoid, according to the world's top climate watchdog. Dr Rajendra Pachauri, the chairman of the official Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), told an international conference attended by 114 governments in Mauritius this month that he personally believes that the world has already reached the level of dangerous concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and called for immediate and very deep cuts in the pollution if humanity is to survive. His comments rocked the Bush administration - which immediately tried to slap him down - not least because it put him in his post after Exxon, the major oil company most opposed to international action on global warming, complained that his predecessor was too aggressive on the issue. A memorandum from Exxon to the White House in early 2001 specifically asked it to get the previous chairman, Dr Robert Watson, the chief scientist of the World Bank, replaced at the request of the US. The Bush administration then lobbied other countries in favor of Dr Pachauri - whom the former vice-president Al Gore called the let's drag our feet candidate, and got him elected to replace Dr Watson, a British-born naturalized American, who had repeatedly called for urgent action. But this month, at a conference of Small Island Developing States on the Indian Ocean island, the new chairman, a former head of India's Tata Energy Research Institute, himself issued what top United Nations officials described as a very courageous challenge. He told delegates: Climate change is for real. We have just a small window of opportunity and it is closing rather rapidly. There is not a moment to lose. Afterwards he told The Independent on Sunday that widespread dying of coral reefs, and rapid melting of ice in the Arctic, had driven him to the conclusion that the danger point the IPCC had been set up to avoid had already been reached. Reefs throughout the world are perishing as the seas warm up: as water temperatures rise, they lose their colors and turn a ghostly white. Partly as a result, up to a quarter of the world's corals have been destroyed. And in November, a multi-year study by 300 scientists concluded that the Arctic was warming twice as fast as the rest of the world and that its ice-cap had shrunk by up to 20 per cent in the past three decades. The ice is also 40 per cent thinner than it was in the 1970s and is expected to disappear altogether by 2070. And while Dr Pachauri was speaking parts of the Arctic were having a January heatwave, with temperatures eight to nine degrees centigrade higher than normal. He also cited alarming measurements, first reported in The Independent on Sunday, showing that levels of carbon dioxide (the main cause of global warming) have leapt abruptly over the past two years, suggesting that climate change may be accelerating out of control. He added that, because of inertia built into the Earth's natural systems, the world was now only
Re: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
hour, day or year, your colder than normal means that someone else has a hotter than normal. And due to the fact that neither hotter than normal and colder than normal are exactly quantitative in their expression, it's all rather hard to put much weight on such itinerate data. Doesn't mean that you can't have a difficult time believing it. But nor does it mean that just because something gets stuck in one's craw that it's not a reality. Think global warming's bad? Wait till you see global cooling. http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0130-11.htm Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Mickey *B** [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:56 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return,Warns Leading Climate Expert As I sit here freezing, in temperatures colder than normal, I have a hard time swallowing the global warming concept. Mick From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 03:22:33 +0900 http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0123-01.htm Published on Sunday, January 23, 2005 by the lndependent/UK Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert by Geoffrey Lean Global warning has already hit the danger point that international attempts to curb it are designed to avoid, according to the world's top climate watchdog. Dr Rajendra Pachauri, the chairman of the official Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), told an international conference attended by 114 governments in Mauritius this month that he personally believes that the world has already reached the level of dangerous concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and called for immediate and very deep cuts in the pollution if humanity is to survive. His comments rocked the Bush administration - which immediately tried to slap him down - not least because it put him in his post after Exxon, the major oil company most opposed to international action on global warming, complained that his predecessor was too aggressive on the issue. A memorandum from Exxon to the White House in early 2001 specifically asked it to get the previous chairman, Dr Robert Watson, the chief scientist of the World Bank, replaced at the request of the US. The Bush administration then lobbied other countries in favor of Dr Pachauri - whom the former vice-president Al Gore called the let's drag our feet candidate, and got him elected to replace Dr Watson, a British-born naturalized American, who had repeatedly called for urgent action. But this month, at a conference of Small Island Developing States on the Indian Ocean island, the new chairman, a former head of India's Tata Energy Research Institute, himself issued what top United Nations officials described as a very courageous challenge. He told delegates: Climate change is for real. We have just a small window of opportunity and it is closing rather rapidly. There is not a moment to lose. Afterwards he told The Independent on Sunday that widespread dying of coral reefs, and rapid melting of ice in the Arctic, had driven him to the conclusion that the danger point the IPCC had been set up to avoid had already been reached. Reefs throughout the world are perishing as the seas warm up: as water temperatures rise, they lose their colors and turn a ghostly white. Partly as a result, up to a quarter of the world's corals have been destroyed. And in November, a multi-year study by 300 scientists concluded that the Arctic was warming twice as fast as the rest of the world and that its ice-cap had shrunk by up to 20 per cent in the past three decades. The ice is also 40 per cent thinner than it was in the 1970s and is expected to disappear altogether by 2070. And while Dr Pachauri was speaking parts of the Arctic were having a January heatwave, with temperatures eight to nine degrees centigrade higher than normal. He also cited alarming measurements, first reported in The Independent on Sunday, showing that levels of carbon dioxide (the main cause of global warming) have leapt abruptly over the past two years, suggesting that climate change may be accelerating out of control. He added that, because of inertia built into the Earth's natural systems, the world was now only experiencing the result of pollution emitted in the 1960s, and much greater effects would occur as the increased pollution of later decades worked its way through. He concluded: We are risking the ability of the human race to survive. © 2005 Independent News Media (UK) Ltd. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives
[Biofuel] Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
Published on Sunday, January 23, 2005 by the lndependent/UK Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert by Geoffrey Lean Global warning has already hit the danger point that international attempts to curb it are designed to avoid, according to the world's top climate watchdog. Dr Rajendra Pachauri, the chairman of the official Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), told an international conference attended by 114 governments in Mauritius this month that he personally believes that the world has already reached the level of dangerous concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and called for immediate and very deep cuts in the pollution if humanity is to survive. His comments rocked the Bush administration - which immediately tried to slap him down - not least because it put him in his post after Exxon, the major oil company most opposed to international action on global warming, complained that his predecessor was too aggressive on the issue. A memorandum from Exxon to the White House in early 2001 specifically asked it to get the previous chairman, Dr Robert Watson, the chief scientist of the World Bank, replaced at the request of the US. The Bush administration then lobbied other countries in favor of Dr Pachauri - whom the former vice-president Al Gore called the let's drag our feet candidate, and got him elected to replace Dr Watson, a British-born naturalized American, who had repeatedly called for urgent action. But this month, at a conference of Small Island Developing States on the Indian Ocean island, the new chairman, a former head of India's Tata Energy Research Institute, himself issued what top United Nations officials described as a very courageous challenge. He told delegates: Climate change is for real. We have just a small window of opportunity and it is closing rather rapidly. There is not a moment to lose. Afterwards he told The Independent on Sunday that widespread dying of coral reefs, and rapid melting of ice in the Arctic, had driven him to the conclusion that the danger point the IPCC had been set up to avoid had already been reached. Reefs throughout the world are perishing as the seas warm up: as water temperatures rise, they lose their colors and turn a ghostly white. Partly as a result, up to a quarter of the world's corals have been destroyed. And in November, a multi-year study by 300 scientists concluded that the Arctic was warming twice as fast as the rest of the world and that its ice-cap had shrunk by up to 20 per cent in the past three decades. The ice is also 40 per cent thinner than it was in the 1970s and is expected to disappear altogether by 2070. And while Dr Pachauri was speaking parts of the Arctic were having a January heatwave, with temperatures eight to nine degrees centigrade higher than normal. He also cited alarming measurements, first reported in The Independent on Sunday, showing that levels of carbon dioxide (the main cause of global warming) have leapt abruptly over the past two years, suggesting that climate change may be accelerating out of control. He added that, because of inertia built into the Earth's natural systems, the world was now only experiencing the result of pollution emitted in the 1960s, and much greater effects would occur as the increased pollution of later decades worked its way through. He concluded: We are risking the ability of the human race to survive. © 2005 Independent News Media (UK) Ltd. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
