[Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
I talked with a few folks last night about the home brewing of ethanol from sawdust. I am happy to announce that these guys are working on a "found" Oyster Mushroom mycelium that they are hopeful will break down the cellulose in order to separate the lignin. If this experiment works they may have found a natural method although slower to aide in the fermentation of wood fiber. Mushrooms are not my specialty but from what I gather talking to the guys is that the beginning of all classic mushroom research is in the hunting and gathering. I have this picture in my mind of my friend wandering around the local forests in his bare feet looking for the elusive shroom that grows on the type of tree we are trying to process. Talk about grassroots research! Brian Rodgers -- Brian's & Nell's computer scanned this baby & no viruses were found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
I hope your friend isn't too adventurous. You might find him with more than his shoes off, skipping around and talking to the trees. :-) MikeBrian Rodgers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I talked with a few folks last night about the home brewing of ethanol from sawdust. I am happy to announce that these guys are working on a "found" Oyster Mushroom mycelium that they are hopeful will break down the cellulose in order to separate the lignin. If this experiment works they may have found a natural method although slower to aide in the fermentation of wood fiber. Mushrooms are not my specialty but from what I gather talking to the guys is that the beginning of all classic mushroom research is in the hunting and gathering. I have this picture in my mind of my friend wandering around the local forests in his bare feet looking for the elusive shroom that grows on the type of tree we are trying to process. Talk about grassroots research!Brian Rodgers-- Brian's & Nell's computer scanned this baby & no viruses were found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
Hi All, Just thought I would mention this. All of you composters out there have seen one of the molds that break apart lignin. It's the white rot fungus. It produces a peroxidase that just tears up lignin. I think the scientific name is Phanerochaete Chrysosporus. I worked with it when making biodegradabe plastics for Warner Lambert a few years back. It's great stuff. Will dissolve most anything a plant can make and it loves the composting environment particularly the surfaces. There might be some folks out there who can biofacture the enzyme from the fungus. Tom Irwin From: Michael Redler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 13:38:32 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms I hope your friend isn't too adventurous. You might find him with more than his shoes off, skipping around and talking to the trees. :-) MikeBrian Rodgers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I talked with a few folks last night about the home brewing of ethanol from sawdust. I am happy to announce that these guys are working on a "found" Oyster Mushroom mycelium that they are hopeful will break down the cellulose in order to separate the lignin. If this experiment works they may have found a natural method although slower to aide in the fermentation of wood fiber. Mushrooms are not my specialty but from what I gather talking to the guys is that the beginning of all classic mushroom research is in the hunting and gathering. I have this picture in my mind of my friend wandering around the local forests in his bare feet looking for the elusive shroom that grows on the type of tree we are trying to process. Talk about grassroots research!Brian Rodgers-- Brian's & Nell's computer scanned this baby & no viruses were found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
I'm thinking of starting a small ethanol project and did some research. I came across a distilling head (https://www1.fishersci.com/Coupon?cid=1328&gid=89796&details=Y). I like the idea of glass hardware (even if it is more expensive than copper) because you can see whats going on. However, I have some reservations about keeping it clean and possible pressure build-up. ...any comments? Mike Tom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi All, Just thought I would mention this. All of you composters out there have seen one of the molds that break apart lignin. It's the white rot fungus. It produces a peroxidase that just tears up lignin. I think the scientific name is Phanerochaete Chrysosporus. I worked with it when making biodegradabe plastics for Warner Lambert a few years back. It's great stuff. Will dissolve most anything a plant can make and it loves the composting environment particularly the surfaces. There might be some folks out there who can biofacture the enzyme from the fungus. Tom Irwin From: Michael Redler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 13:38:32 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms I hope your friend isn't too adventurous. You might find him with more than his shoes off, skipping around and talking to the trees. :-) MikeBrian Rodgers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I talked with a few folks last night about the home brewing of ethanol from sawdust. I am happy to announce that these guys are working on a "found" Oyster Mushroom mycelium that they are hopeful will break down the cellulose in order to separate the lignin. If this experiment works they may have found a natural method although slower to aide in the fermentation of wood fiber. Mushrooms are not my specialty but from what I gather talking to the guys is that the beginning of all classic mushroom research is in the hunting and gathering. I have this picture in my mind of my friend wandering around the local forests in his bare feet looking for the elusive shroom that grows on the type of tree we are trying to process. Talk about grassroots research!Brian Rodgers-- Brian's & Nell's computer scanned this baby & no viruses were found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
Mushrooms like the same sugars that yeasts like. So a lot of what you are trying to get from the wood is what the fungi consumes. I have cultured both yeasts and fungi and had to have completely seperate laminar stations because there was cross contamination going out of control. If you can find the fungi and make it work, I would be happy to see the results. fred On 8/3/05, Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm thinking of starting a small ethanol project and did some research. I > came across a distilling head > (https://www1.fishersci.com/Coupon?cid=1328&gid=89796&details=Y). > > I like the idea of glass hardware (even if it is more expensive than copper) > because you can see whats going on. However, I have some reservations about > keeping it clean and possible pressure build-up. > > ...any comments? > > Mike > > > > Tom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi All, > > Just thought I would mention this. All of you composters out there have seen > one of the molds that break apart lignin. It's the white rot fungus. It > produces a peroxidase that just tears up lignin. I think the scientific name > is Phanerochaete Chrysosporus. I worked with it when making biodegradabe > plastics for Warner Lambert a few years back. It's great stuff. Will > dissolve most anything a plant can make and it loves the composting > environment particularly the surfaces. There might be some folks out there > who can biofacture the enzyme from the fungus. > > Tom Irwin > > > > From: Michael Redler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > Sent: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 13:38:32 -0300 > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms > > > > > I hope your friend isn't too adventurous. You might find him with more than > his shoes off, skipping around and talking to the trees. > > :-) > > Mike > > Brian Rodgers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I talked with a few folks last night about the home brewing of ethanol > from sawdust. I am happy to announce that these guys are working on a > "found" Oyster Mushroom mycelium that they are hopeful will break down > the cellulose in order to separate the lignin. If this experiment works > they may have found a natural method although slower to aide in the > fermentation of wood fiber. Mushrooms are not my specialty but from what > I gather talking to the guys is that the beginning of all classic > mushroom research is in the hunting and gathering. I have this picture > in my mind of my friend wandering around the local forests in his bare > feet looking for the elusive shroom that grows on the type of tree we > are trying to process. Talk about grassroots research! > > > > Brian Rodgers > > > -- > Brian's & Nell's computer scanned this baby & no viruses were found in this > outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005 > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
Hehe I hope your friend isn't too adventurous. You might find him with more than his shoes off, skipping around and talking to the trees. :-) Mike Yep no doubt about it, but it might be a good idea for more of us to try a little "talking to the trees". Let's see if Mother Nature can teach us a thing or two. I believe “bare foot exploration” of our forests is an important process in getting in touch with our local environment. I just finished… Well almost finished reading a story that Keith sent out via a link http://www.distill.com/woodhydrolysis/woodprocess.html And I have to say it is more than a little overwhelming trying to comprehend the current state of ethanol from biomass which includes wood waste products. So yeah, I take luxury in thinking, while going “way out there” searching for alternatives! With so many obstacles in home brewed ethanol I am beginning to think it would be easier to find an old diesel Mercedes and switch over to the bio-diesel way of thinking. Strange how we let our past govern our way of thinking; several years ago I had a Mercedes 1974 240 D (diesel) in which the engine threw a rod. Instead of rebuilding the engine I undertook a massive reworking of that car and installed a modern fuel injected computer controlled gasoline engine and its transmission. It was a fun project and I pride myself in the fact that the whole job was accomplished without blowing one fuse. Well actually that was a huge undertaking and I had pride in every aspect of the conversion. Needless to say I have major reservations about going back to diesel. It is a good thing I can keep an open mind, right? Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
Hello Fred thanks for the input, even if it does pop another bubble, dammit. Mushrooms like the same sugars that yeasts like. So a lot of what you are trying to get from the wood is what the fungi consumes. I have cultured both yeasts and fungi and had to have completely seperate laminar stations because there was cross contamination going out of control. From what I have heard about most brewing systems it seems like I better build a super clean laboratory to do my experiments in. I have an insulated semi-trailer that my buddy was using to grow edible mushrooms in. I was thinking I might strip it back to the cleanable fiberglass walls and washable steel floor and try my hand at brewing something easier like corn or fruit just to get some experience with all this scientific stuff. Right now the trailer houses my electronic workshop and a small jewelry workbench. Whatever I do, it seems plain to me that change is in the air. If you can find the fungi and make it work, I would be happy to see the results. fred Now that you bring up this point about yeasts and fungi eating sugar the same stuff needed to ferment, it occurs to me that these fungi folks were unaware that I was trying to ferment the sawdust. Their original plan as I recall was to help my friend who owns a small sawmill to dispose of sawdust. Oh well at this point it is still in the thinking about it stage. I will gladly leave some of this learning the hard way stuff for next season, or as they say around here “Mañana” I will apprise you all of the mushroom experiment as it develops. Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
Hi all, I should have given more details about the processing. You have to grow the fungus separately and limit one of the nutrients. It produces good quantities of the peroxidase but it probably is not for those without a lab. I never got to the point of separating the peroxidase as I was only interesting in enhancing the composting environment. It can be separated by gel electrophoresis, for certain, and may be a large enough molecule to separate by centrifugation. The electrophorsis would produce a really high purity product. It would make for a real nice business for sustainable development. It an interesting thought but I have other pots on the fire right now. Any of you university types looking for a research project out there? I already have too many things in the scale up phase. Tom Irwin From: Brian Rodgers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 16:30:23 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushroomsHello Fredthanks for the input, even if it does pop another bubble, dammit. Mushrooms like the same sugars that yeasts like. So a lot of what you are trying to get from the wood is what the fungi consumes. I have cultured both yeasts and fungi and had to have completely seperate laminar stations because there was cross contamination going out of control. From what I have heard about most brewing systems it seems like I better build a super clean laboratory to do my experiments in. I have an insulated semi-trailer that my buddy was using to grow edible mushrooms in. I was thinking I might strip it back to the cleanable fiberglass walls and washable steel floor and try my hand at brewing something easier like corn or fruit just to get some experience with all this scientific stuff. Right now the trailer houses my electronic workshop and a small jewelry workbench. Whatever I do, it seems plain to me that change is in the air. If you can find the fungi and make it work, I would be happy to see the results. fredNow that you bring up this point about yeasts and fungi eating sugar the same stuff needed to ferment, it occurs to me that these fungi folks were unaware that I was trying to ferment the sawdust. Their original plan as I recall was to help my friend who owns a small sawmill to dispose of sawdust. Oh well at this point it is still in the thinking about it stage. I will gladly leave some of this learning the hard way stuff for next season, or as they say around here “Mañana” I will apprise you all of the mushroom experiment as it develops.Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
Hello Brian. This is most intriguing. Let me describe another sawdust expt. which I did in my kitchen. I first placed the sawdust in a clean wide mouth plastic feeding bottle, anchored it in a pot of water, and boiled for 30 min. with lid on to sterilise the sawdust. On cooling a small piece of edible 'oyster mushroom' was dipped for short time in 'chlorox' solution (dilute sodium hypochlorite solution) and quickly inserted into sawdust with sterilised tongs. The mouth of the bottle was stuffed with sterile cotton. I was of course trying to make edible mushroom. sure enough the white mycellium grew for 2-3 wks. A black coloured spot suddenly appeared and quickly spread throughout the bottle killing the oyster, probably due to poor sterile technique. The oyster mushroom was fresh from the supermarket. It was growing for few weeks. I did not measure the glucose content for which sterile water inlet/outlet fittings would have been necessary. I also did not continue mushroom expts. in my kitchen, although I used it from time to time for tinkering with kitchen chemistry, courtesy of my dear wife, who is now looking over my shoulder at all this with a smile. Cheers.Brian Rodgers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I talked with a few folks last night about the home brewing of ethanol from sawdust. I am happy to announce that these guys are working on a "found" Oyster Mushroom mycelium that they are hopeful will break down the cellulose in order to separate the lignin. If this experiment works they may have found a natural method although slower to aide in the fermentation of wood fiber. Mushrooms are not my specialty but from what I gather talking to the guys is that the beginning of all classic mushroom research is in the hunting and gathering. I have this picture in my mind of my friend wandering around the local forests in his bare feet looking for the elusive shroom that grows on the type of tree we are trying to process. Talk about grassroots research!Brian Rodgers-- Brian's & Nell's computer scanned this baby & no viruses were found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
Now that you bring up this point about yeast and fungi eating sugar the same stuff needed to ferment, it occurs to me that these fungi folks were unaware that I was trying to ferment the sawdust. Their original plan as I recall was to help my friend who owns a small sawmill to dispose of sawdust. Oh well at this point it is still in the thinking about it stage. I will gladly leave some of this learning the hard way stuff for next season, or as they say around here “Mañana” I will apprise you all of the mushroom experiment as it develops. Brian Rodgers My hopes go up and down up and down. Brian Hello Brian. This is most intriguing. Let me describe another sawdust expt. which I did in my kitchen. I first placed the sawdust in a clean wide mouth plastic feeding bottle, anchored it in a pot of water, and boiled for 30 min. with lid on to sterilise the sawdust. On cooling a small piece of edible 'oyster mushroom' was dipped for short time in 'chlorox' solution (dilute sodium hypochlorite solution) and quickly inserted into sawdust with sterilised tongs. The mouth of the bottle was stuffed with sterile cotton. I was of course trying to make edible mushroom. sure enough the white mycellium grew for 2-3 wks. A black coloured spot suddenly appeared and quickly spread throughout the bottle killing the oyster, probably due to poor sterile technique. The oyster mushroom was fresh from the supermarket. It was growing for few weeks. I did not measure the glucose content for which sterile water inlet/outlet fittings would have been necessary. I also did not continue mushroom expts. in my kitchen, although I used it from time to time for tinkering with kitchen chemistry, courtesy of my dear wife, who is now looking over my shoulder at all this with a smile. Cheers. This is very helpful. Thank you so much. I have passed this along to my friends in the New Mexico Mycological Society. http://www.mycowest.org/nmms/ Let’s see if they can get on the ball. I received several responses about the wood digesting mushroom at the Biofuels group. I wish I knew more about how mycelia operated. I don’t know which is the most useful feedback, so I posted the letters here for all mycological society types out there. Please interpret and give me some feedback so I can pass it along to these other scientific types. At first I thought maybe we were barking up the wrong tree and then one fellow said, Yes Oyster mushrooms, find the right one and grow some. Very cool. You mean we aren’t totally off the wall? Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
I was reading just yesterday about using white rot fungus in the form of mushrooms of the common button type as selective for lignin and leaving the cellulose and hemicellulose alone as part of a pulping scheme. The cellulose and maybe the hemicellulose can then be fermented to ethanol. (Another approach is using a MoS2 catalyst.) It was a PhD thesis, but I dont have it with me. I can look it up if interested. Ken Brian Rodgers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Fredthanks for the input, even if it does pop another bubble, dammit. Mushrooms like the same sugars that yeasts like. So a lot of what you are trying to get from the wood is what the fungi consumes. I have cultured both yeasts and fungi and had to have completely seperate laminar stations because there was cross contamination going out of control. From what I have heard about most brewing systems it seems like I better build a super clean laboratory to do my experiments in. I have an insulated semi-trailer that my buddy was using to grow edible mushrooms in. I was thinking I might strip it back to the cleanable fiberglass walls and washable steel floor and try my hand at brewing something easier like corn or fruit just to get some experience with all this scientific stuff. Right now the trailer houses my electronic workshop and a small jewelry workbench. Whatever I do, it seems plain to me that change is in the air. If you can find the fungi and make it work, I would be happy to see the results. fredNow that you bring up this point about yeasts and fungi eating sugar the same stuff needed to ferment, it occurs to me that these fungi folks were unaware that I was trying to ferment the sawdust. Their original plan as I recall was to help my friend who owns a small sawmill to dispose of sawdust. Oh well at this point it is still in the thinking about it stage. I will gladly leave some of this learning the hard way stuff for next season, or as they say around here Mañana I will apprise you all of the mushroom experiment as it develops.Brian Rodgers ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
Howdy Ken, Ken Gotberg wrote: I was reading just yesterday about using white rot fungus in the form of mushrooms of the common button type as selective for lignin and leaving the cellulose and hemicellulose alone as part of a pulping scheme. The cellulose and maybe the hemicellulose can then be fermented to ethanol. Actually you must hydrolyze the cellulose to simple sugars before yeast fermentation. Getting the lignin out is an important step, but hydrolysis of the cellulose is no trivial matter. Is there any commercial wood to ethanol production? It's been talked about for decades but is it actually happening? -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob "Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
Greetings Ken, I'm certainly interested in seeing that thesis. It would be unusual for a fungus to get its only form of energy from lignin. It would be especially unusual for a fungus not to consume cellulose and hemicelluose. Hot stuff for those poor souls like myself, interested in mycology. Tom Irwin From: Ken Gotberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 10:07:20 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms I was reading just yesterday about using white rot fungus in the form of mushrooms of the common button type as selective for lignin and leaving the cellulose and hemicellulose alone as part of a pulping scheme. The cellulose and maybe the hemicellulose can then be fermented to ethanol. (Another approach is using a MoS2 catalyst.) It was a PhD thesis, but I don’t have it with me. I can look it up if interested. Ken Brian Rodgers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Fredthanks for the input, even if it does pop another bubble, dammit. Mushrooms like the same sugars that yeasts like. So a lot of what you are trying to get from the wood is what the fungi consumes. I have cultured both yeasts and fungi and had to have completely seperate laminar stations because there was cross contamination going out of control. From what I have heard about most brewing systems it seems like I better build a super clean laboratory to do my experiments in. I have an insulated semi-trailer that my buddy was using to grow edible mushrooms in. I was thinking I might strip it back to the cleanable fiberglass walls and washable steel floor and try my hand at brewing something easier like corn or fruit just to get some experience with all this scientific stuff. Right now the trailer houses my electronic workshop and a small jewelry workbench. Whatever I do, it seems plain to me that change is in the air. If you can find the fungi and make it work, I would be happy to see the results. fredNow that you bring up this point about yeasts and fungi eating sugar the same stuff needed to ferment, it occurs to me that these fungi folks were unaware that I was trying to ferment the sawdust. Their original plan as I recall was to help my friend who owns a small sawmill to dispose of sawdust. Oh well at this point it is still in the thinking about it stage. I will gladly leave some of this learning the hard way stuff for next season, or as they say around here “Mañana” I will apprise you all of the mushroom experiment as it develops.Brian Rodgers ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
Please, I have not heard of this use of MoS2 before. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Ken Gotberg To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:07 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms I was reading just yesterday about using white rot fungus in the form of mushrooms of the common button type as selective for lignin and leaving the cellulose and hemicellulose alone as part of a pulping scheme. The cellulose and maybe the hemicellulose can then be fermented to ethanol. (Another approach is using a MoS2 catalyst.) It was a PhD thesis, but I dont have it with me. I can look it up if interested. Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
Ill combine my answers. Bob Yes, you need a cellulase to extract glucose and there are many with those from Trichoderma reesei being the most common and most studied with the genome known (?). The glucose has many uses with ethanol being just one of them losing ~ half of the starting material as CO2. Others like citric acid dont lose material except that used for cell growth. I should mention the dilute and concentrated acid methods are also viable options, but I prefer the biological route for use in the third world. The EERE site has a lot of info about this and worth a look for those interested. There are a few plants actually in production making glucose whose names and locations Ive forgotten -names like ADM, Cargil in places like Canada come to mind. . With high fuel prices, the old technologies and some new ones may become viable again like during the first OPEC embargo circa 1970. Tom The thesis (I think it is a thesis) is: Pauliina Lankinen, Liginolytic enzymes of the basidiomycetous fungi Agaricus bisporus and Phlebia radiata on lignocellulose-containing media, Helsinki 2004 http://ethesis.helsinki.fi/julkaisut/maa/skemi/vk/lankinen/ligninol.pdf There is a lot of research going on in Finland and Sweden because of he economic importance of forests in these countries. = Greg MoS2 catalysis is another old idea with patents held by Dow and a new one held by a small company. This is modified Fisher-Tropsch idea with first making syngas (H2 + CO) in various propitiations and the catalysis recombines as alcohols rather than hydrocarbons as is the case in the full-blown F-T. No addition of H2 is necessary. This also isnt poisoned by sulphur because sulphur is part of the catalysis. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
Hello Ken, Many thanks for posting the research. I´ve downloaded it and will consume it this weekend. Tom Irwin From: Ken Gotberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 02:31:13 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms I’ll combine my answers. Bob Yes, you need a cellulase to extract glucose and there are many with those from Trichoderma reesei being the most common and most studied with the genome known (?). The glucose has many uses with ethanol being just one of them losing ~ half of the starting material as CO2. Others like citric acid don’t lose material except that used for cell growth. I should mention the dilute and concentrated acid methods are also viable options, but I prefer the biological route for use in the third world. The EERE site has a lot of info about this and worth a look for those interested. There are a few plants actually in production making glucose whose names and locations I’ve forgotten -names like ADM, Cargil in places like Canada come to mind. . With high fuel prices, the old technologies and some new ones may become viable again like during the first OPEC embargo circa 1970. Tom The thesis (I think it is a thesis) is: Pauliina Lankinen, “Liginolytic enzymes of the basidiomycetous fungi Agaricus bisporus and Phlebia radiata on lignocellulose-containing media”, Helsinki 2004 http://ethesis.helsinki.fi/julkaisut/maa/skemi/vk/lankinen/ligninol.pdf There is a lot of research going on in Finland and Sweden because of he economic importance of forests in these countries. = Greg MoS2 catalysis is another old idea with patents held by Dow and a new one held by a small company. This is modified Fisher-Tropsch idea with first making syngas (H2 + CO) in various propitiations and the catalysis recombines as alcohols rather than hydrocarbons as is the case in the full-blown F-T. No addition of H2 is necessary. This also isn’t poisoned by sulphur because sulphur is part of the catalysis. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms using bioprocess
Hello to every one Very simple bio process using mushroom Pluretus can give substrate for simultaneous saccharification(hydrolysis) and fermentation , this can lead to low alcohol content , but a simple solvent extraction with Castor oil as outlined in http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html.This can lead to hydrous alcohol which can be used directly used as feed stocks (raw material) after removal of the water using compressed air and zeolites adsorption.Surely this can low energy consuming process and can be done in a decentralised small scale biomass refinery as alternate to the petroleum refinery. sd Pannir On 8/4/05, Brian Rodgers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Now that you bring up this point about yeast and fungi eating sugar the same > stuff needed to ferment, it occurs to me that these fungi folks were unaware > that I was trying to ferment the sawdust. Their original plan as I recall > was to help my friend who owns a small sawmill to dispose of sawdust. Oh > well at this point it is still in the thinking about it stage. I will gladly > leave some of this learning the hard way stuff for next season, or as they > say around here "Mañana" > > I will apprise you all of the mushroom experiment as it develops. > > Brian Rodgers My hopes go up and down up and down. > Brian > > Hello Brian. This is most intriguing. Let me describe another sawdust expt. > which I did in my kitchen. I first placed the sawdust in a clean wide mouth > plastic feeding bottle, anchored it in a pot of water, and boiled for 30 > min. with lid on to sterilise the sawdust. On cooling a small piece of > edible 'oyster mushroom' was dipped for short time in 'chlorox' solution > (dilute sodium hypochlorite solution) and quickly inserted into sawdust with > sterilised tongs. The mouth of the bottle was stuffed with sterile cotton. I > was of course trying to make edible mushroom. sure enough the white > mycellium grew for 2-3 wks. A black coloured spot suddenly appeared and > quickly spread throughout the bottle killing the oyster, probably due to > poor sterile technique. The oyster mushroom was fresh from the supermarket. > It was growing for few weeks. I did not measure the glucose content for > which sterile water inlet/outlet fittings would have been necessary. I also > did not continue mushroom expts. in my kitchen, although I used it from time > to time for tinkering with kitchen chemistry, courtesy of my dear wife, who > is now looking over my shoulder at all this with a smile. Cheers. > > This is very helpful. Thank you so much. I have passed this along to my > friends in the New Mexico Mycological Society. http://www.mycowest.org/nmms/ > Let's see if they can get on the ball. > I received several responses about the wood digesting mushroom at the > Biofuels group. I wish I knew more about how mycelia operated. I don't know > which is the most useful feedback, so I posted the letters here for all > mycological society types out there. Please interpret and give me some > feedback so I can pass it along to these other scientific types. At first I > thought maybe we were barking up the wrong tree and then one fellow said, > Yes Oyster mushrooms, find the right one and grow some. Very cool. You mean > we aren't totally off the wall? Brian Rodgers > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 Capim Macio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210 32171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular 84 88145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
