Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
Pedro Quaresma schrieb: Agreed wholeheartedly, but which companies care about that these days? How many games in the last few years have had a decent manual + props other than on a special or collectors edition? I can't recall any. Even very complicated games like Microsoft's FS9, who really should come with adequate printed documentation, have most of it on the CD only. And Knight's of the Old Republic, being a CRPG, who usually have and need bigger manuals, comes with nothing more than a couple of pages that explain the basics. But about the collector's editions you mentioned: Nice way of selling us for extra money what once upon a time we got in the first place. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
Marco Thorek wrote: I can't recall any. Even very complicated games like Microsoft's FS9, who really should come with adequate printed documentation, have most of it on the CD only. And Knight's of the Old Republic, being a CRPG, who usually have and need bigger manuals, comes with nothing more than a couple of pages that explain the basics. The last game I bought that had good documentation was Arcanum (late 2001). 150 page manual, with TONs of information (walkthough of first area, background on all the character classes, even a recipe for cookies :). Was very pleased to see that. Of course, that was also one of the very last large/original-size box formats. Now everything is the smallbox format. We must be the only group in the world who hates the small boxes :-) But about the collector's editions you mentioned: Nice way of selling us for extra money what once upon a time we got in the first place. Yes, BUT, games usually cost about $59-$69 back then. So although you got more, you were paying more. Collector's Edition Return to Castle Wolfenstein cost $59, so instead of saying once upon a time we got in the first place, we should be saying all releases should be collector's editions or with collector's editions, you get what you pay for. (Sorry to play Devil's Advocate, but one of the reasons I started collecting old games post-1997 is because it was actually *cheaper* for me to do so compared to back in 1987!) -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
Marco Thorek wrote: IMHO the best copy protection still is a neat box, a nice and sufficient manual and some props to go along. If all you get is a DVD case and a PDF manual on the CD, most people don't see enough physical evidence of the game's worth, compared to what is readily available on the net. Agreed wholeheartedly, but which companies care about that these days? How many games in the last few years have had a decent manual + props other than on a special or collectors edition? -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Verdi Steel, 37K km. ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online http://www.toyota.pt
Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
Edward Franks schrieb: Gamasutra had an interesting article http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20011017/dodd_01.htm -- you may need to register on Gamasutra to read it -- on the developer's attempts to simply slowdown the cracking of Spyro: Year of the Dragon. Their goal was simply to try to keep pirates from cracking the game for the first few months of the game's sale life (when up to half the sales of the game occur). The idea that came across was that they realized that the crackers would eventually win, so all the developers could do is try to slow them down. It included allowing partial cracks to work for a while, so that if you didn't play the game for 10 to 12 hours you might think your crack worked. It is a bizarre world when developers spend so much time trying to make a game work correctly and then turn around and break their own game. I doubt that it made much of a difference. A good enough coder can quickly identify any subroutine depending on the protection. IMHO the best copy protection still is a neat box, a nice and sufficient manual and some props to go along. If all you get is a DVD case and a PDF manual on the CD, most people don't see enough physical evidence of the game's worth, compared to what is readily available on the net. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
On Dec 5, 2003, at 5:58 PM, Marco Thorek wrote: [Snip] I doubt that it made much of a difference. A good enough coder can quickly identify any subroutine depending on the protection. From the article it apparently did. Enough that the dev team decided it was worth the effort then and in the future. IMHO the best copy protection still is a neat box, a nice and sufficient manual and some props to go along. If all you get is a DVD case and a PDF manual on the CD, most people don't see enough physical evidence of the game's worth, compared to what is readily available on the net. I pretty much agree with that. People have gotten used to the idea that cheaper is always better -- zero cost being the cheapest -- without understanding or giving a damn about the eventual long term consequences. But, I'll save the economics rant for another day. ;-) -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
On Dec 3, 2003, at 7:07 PM, Dan Chisarick wrote: [Snip] http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2002/jul02/ 0724palladiumwp.asp Anyway, I remember reading about how hard the emulator guys were working on emulating brutal encryption on certain standup arcade titles. That seemed effective. My guess is, if a console had 100% encrypted content on their distribution media, and all decryption was done on-chip (no decrypted data ever went over the pins on the chips), that would be pretty effective :) I'm waiting for some form of online activation system for consoles myself (for non-networked games). The problem is, trying to match wits with someone with detailed knowledge of a system and trying to keep you out is fun. Sometimes more fun than the game they're protecting. Hmm. I need to think through this. I wonder if the NSA would freak if there wasn't a backdoor. -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
Edward Franks wrote: Hmm. I need to think through this. I wonder if the NSA would freak if there wasn't a backdoor. I think the RIAA would freak if there *was* a back door ;-) So-called back doors are more trouble than their worth. It means that anyone to figures it out can get into anything. There are far less back doors in security hardware/software than you think. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
Jim Leonard stated: It certainly worked for the Atari Jaguar. Emulators and homebrew games were impossible until somebody cleverly broke the encryption using jaglink'd development systems running a brute-force technique. It took almost 9 months, if memory serves. (Ironically, the Jaguar rights were released to the public shortly thereafter :) Perhaps my memory is faulty, but the way I remember it, Hasbro announced that the Jaguar was an open console (meaning anyone could develop games for it), but didn't have (or didn't know where to find) the encryption algorithm. This made their statement practically meaningless at the time. I also seem to recall 4-Play's web page up with a countdown to when the brute force method would be done. And when the time was up, they still hadn't made an announcement. -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
Lee K. Seitz wrote: I also seem to recall 4-Play's web page up with a countdown to when the brute force method would be done. And when the time was up, they still hadn't made an announcement. They hadn't updated the page -- several homebrew Jaguar games do indeed exist (check Songbird Productions for a few) -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
Piracy? Here? On this bastion of software morality? Why my fragile mind can not cope with it! AAAR!!! Hey, that reminds me, does anyone have a working copy of The Quest for IBM? Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?] Sarinee? Which ones should I send to you and to which address? -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change without notice. It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. Details provided do not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale. CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, may have a position in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment banker or advisor to such. Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC), it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products recommended, purchased, or sold in any client accounts (i) will not be insured by the FDIC, (ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, (iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and (iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
CRAP!!! This is the very first time in my life I have sent a message to the wrong address!! I am a moron! Feldhamer, Stuart wrote: Piracy? Here? On this bastion of software morality? Why my fragile mind can not cope with it! AAAR!!! Hey, that reminds me, does anyone have a working copy of The Quest for IBM? Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?] Sarinee? Which ones should I send to you and to which address? -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
Feldhamer, Stuart wrote: Don't worry...some good can come out of this... So how do you repair the broken disks? I'd sure like to know. Seriously? Well, most broken disks are merely copy-protected. If you have special software or hardware, it is fairly trivial to analyze the disks to get a feel for how they are laid out, load the software up in a debugger, watch for suspicious activity, and patch the game so that it doesn't check for the odd layout present on the original disk. I have only run across three games in my life that were HARD to crack: - King's Quest 2, PC, booter (NOT the DOS re-release in 1987). This was some extremely clever use of self-modifying code, encryption, and other fun. - Dunzhin Warriors of RAS, PC, booter (used extremely unconventional means to access the disk drives) - Turrican, Amiga (had several different protections that it checked at random -- you'd crack it, and three weeks later it would complain. So you'd crack THAT protection, and three weeks later it would complain about something else. Etc. If you want more information, let me know. It's pretty fascinating sometimes. Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?] CRAP!!! This is the very first time in my life I have sent a message to the wrong address!! I am a moron! Feldhamer, Stuart wrote: Piracy? Here? On this bastion of software morality? Why my fragile mind can not cope with it! AAAR!!! Hey, that reminds me, does anyone have a working copy of The Quest for IBM? Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?] Sarinee? Which ones should I send to you and to which address? -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
