Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: On that list, my vote would be, in order of preference, 1,3,2 I've made a wiki page to collect votes, if people think that's a good idea. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Car_park Robert you are missing the whole point here. While the access=public applies to car parks - this would be preserved by the general rule of copying the node tags to the area. ANY POI that is changed from node to area will potentially have the same problem, and we should be fixing the general rule not starting to build another set of pages for voting on every POI node/area conflict debate? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
Lester Caine wrote: Sent: 26 February 2008 8:12 AM To: OSM Talk Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK! Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: On that list, my vote would be, in order of preference, 1,3,2 I've made a wiki page to collect votes, if people think that's a good idea. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Car_park Robert you are missing the whole point here. While the access=public applies to car parks - this would be preserved by the general rule of copying the node tags to the area. ANY POI that is changed from node to area will potentially have the same problem, and we should be fixing the general rule not starting to build another set of pages for voting on every POI node/area conflict debate? Both nodes and areas carrying the same data in OSM are perfectly valid just as a unified approach is perfectly valid if the object is drawn as an area. The point is that anything in OSM is allowable and there will be no rule enforcement so spending hours debating possible rule ideas is all a waste of effort. Now that doesn't mean to say we shouldn't put ideas up on good practice, that's perfectly valid. But don't expect everyone to adhere to it. What we do know is that the renderers will get smatter with time and the dataset will become richer. Whether we like it or not, many objects may have a degree of duplication whatever guidance is given. Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote: While the access=public applies to car parks - this would be preserved by the general rule of copying the node tags to the area. ANY POI that is changed from node to area will potentially have the same problem, and we should be fixing the general rule not starting to build another set of pages for voting on every POI node/area conflict debate? Both nodes and areas carrying the same data in OSM are perfectly valid just as a unified approach is perfectly valid if the object is drawn as an area. The point is that anything in OSM is allowable and there will be no rule enforcement so spending hours debating possible rule ideas is all a waste of effort. And a simple definition of good practice will remove the need for any discussion when we start getting similar conflicts with church icons, or any other POI. Now that doesn't mean to say we shouldn't put ideas up on good practice, that's perfectly valid. But don't expect everyone to adhere to it. And good practice is not to create duplicate references to a single POI. It may be appropriate to have SEVERAL POI's that are linked to the one physical location, and currently there is no agreement on how that should be handled, but there should be some agreement on how we handle the case where duplicates exist? What we do know is that the renderers will get smatter with time and the dataset will become richer. Whether we like it or not, many objects may have a degree of duplication whatever guidance is given. Accidental duplication perhaps - and that can be corrected just as *IS* necessary currently if a node and area give conflicting information. But the main problem seems to be the insistence that we have to look at area information to resolve these conflicts, and always 'render' something and fix the overlaps. The DATA is becoming richer and it does not take much in the way of good practice ( Recommendations - Rules ) to ensure that ALL uses of that data can be managed without having to resort to additional bodges to untangle unnecessary conflicts? Or perhaps we just have to live with some duplicate results in a search telling us different things about the same place? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Landsat vs OpenAerial Landsat (in JOSM)
I couldn't help noticing that that the Landsat images provided by OpeanAerial map look muck worse than the Landsat images downloaded directly from Nasa. You can see an example at http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2293670552/sizes/o/ the upper image is from OpenAerial map and the lower one from Nasa. I wonder if Potlatch also suffers from this. -- Lauri Hahne ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Landsat vs OpenAerial Landsat (in JOSM)
I like the colouring in the i-cubed imagery, it is more natural looking. it also looks as if it has been sharpened (have a look at the road that runs down on the left hand side) - I think it is better for zoomed out views. Although for OSM use when tracing, the standard NASA landsat works better. Tim On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Christopher Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:28:30AM +0200, Lauri Hahne wrote: I couldn't help noticing that that the Landsat images provided by OpeanAerial map look muck worse than the Landsat images downloaded directly from Nasa. You can see an example at http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2293670552/sizes/o/ the upper image is from OpenAerial map and the lower one from Nasa. I wonder if Potlatch also suffers from this. Depends entirely on where you are. Since colorizing landsat imagery is a choice of algorithms, those algorithms work better in some areas, and worse in others. In my hometown, I prefer the i-Cubed Landsat over the NASA landsat, though clearly that's not appropriate in the area you were looking at. Regards, -- Christopher Schmidt MetaCarta ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Gpx: non-public traces in JOSM/Potlatch and milliseconds in timestamps with JOSM
Hi, I was editing Finnish user manuals for Potlatch and JOSM and started to think if I have understood right that raw GPS data from non-public GPS-traces are downloadable with JOSM, but not with Potlatch. I am sure that JOSM behaves that way (you are not asked who you are when downloading, just when you upload), but does anybody know if I am right with Potlatch? Another question concerns some gpx files which I have converted from my data collector shapefiles. Converted gpx trackpoints have timestamps with running millisecond values (for example time2008-02-15T12:00:00.012Z/time) While Potlatch shows the uploaded track fine with a neat blue line, the Convert to data layer function in JOSM does not order trackpoints correctly by milliseconds. Is it supposed to do so or is it just better to make running seconds instead of milliseconds? -Jukka Rahkonen- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tracking with Palm and Tomtom
Dirk-Lüder Kreie wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alex S. schrieb: Listas wrote: Yes, I used to do my first tracking. I uploaded this trackings and try to edit the map. I make the way successfully but I can't see in the map. First time I do with play option but then I do with start option to make a real way. Needs it to be validated ?? The Mapnik (default) map only updates once a week. The Osmarender map updates upon request. Requests are auto-generated by the server every 4 hours for osmarender layer (tilesAtHome), based on new/changed nodes. - -- How long does server wait before gives the same tile again to another client ? On my dual-core machine with 3Gb of RAM I run two tilesGen.pl instances (fork=0 , with different tmp dirs ) When server gives complicated tiles to both instances to render I simply do kill -STOP pid_of_shell_process_above_inkscape to in order to stop one instance. So rendering one tileset may took about 10 hours . I'm a little worried that server may give stopped tile to another client. Regards Maciek Kaliszewski -- Rozmiar ma znaczenie... czy nie? kliknij http://link.interia.pl/f1d1f ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Good practice [was: Parking symbols: YUCK!]
Sven Grüner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 February 2008 10:18 AM To: OSM-Talk Subject: [OSM-talk] Good practice [was: Parking symbols: YUCK!] Lester Caine wrote: And a simple definition of good practice will remove the need for any discussion when we start getting similar conflicts with church icons, or any other POI. Voilà: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Good_practice Looks great and I like that its short and sweet. I wouldnt want it to grow past ten points or users will never read it. I quickly wrote those up. Anybody is invited to comment or add 'guidelines'. Given there's no general objection I'll cross-link it in a few days time. regards, Sven Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Gpx: non-public traces in JOSM/Potlatch and milliseconds in timestamps with JOSM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jukka Rahkonen schrieb: Hi, I was editing Finnish user manuals for Potlatch and JOSM and started to think if I have understood right that raw GPS data from non-public GPS-traces are downloadable with JOSM, but not with Potlatch. I am sure that JOSM behaves that way (you are not asked who you are when downloading, just when you upload), but does anybody know if I am right with Potlatch? Another question concerns some gpx files which I have converted from my data collector shapefiles. Converted gpx trackpoints have timestamps with running millisecond values (for example time2008-02-15T12:00:00.012Z/time) While Potlatch shows the uploaded track fine with a neat blue line, the Convert to data layer function in JOSM does not order trackpoints correctly by milliseconds. Is it supposed to do so or is it just better to make running seconds instead of milliseconds? I *think* JOSM assumes 1 second resolution (time) gpx tracks. JOSM does not upload gpx traces for you, neither does potlatch. (The traces part of the webpage is outside potlatch) Don't upload converted GPX tracks as OSM data without heavy cleanup. - -- Dirk-Lüder Deelkar Kreie Bremen - 53.0952°N 8.8652°E -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHxANnFUbODdpRVDwRAkJ5AJ9hWhKwzvnSBJL7s1CrqlR2tsBZpwCgg/5Y uy/nfhOC7ZrB5+To7Al+xrM= =jRjU -END PGP SIGNATURE- smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Gpx: non-public traces in JOSM/Potlatch and milliseconds in timestamps with JOSM
Is it supposed to do so or is it just better to make running seconds instead of milliseconds? The [1] Official GPX 1.1 schema says: Fractional seconds are allowed for millisecond timing in tracklogs. Also the [2] ISO 8601 (referred by GPX) allow them. But as far as I can recall, some widespread software have trouble handling them. [1] http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 -- Niccolo Rigacci Firenze - Italy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Gpx: non-public traces in JOSM/Potlatch and milliseconds in timestamps with JOSM
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jukka Rahkonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was editing Finnish user manuals for Potlatch and JOSM and started to think if I have understood right that raw GPS data from non-public GPS-traces are downloadable with JOSM, but not with Potlatch. I am sure that JOSM behaves that way (you are not asked who you are when downloading, just when you upload), but does anybody know if I am right with Potlatch? No, you're wrong. Potlatch fetches all the points the same as JOSM does. Potlatch does have a separate mechanism that displays a single trace rather than all points for the area, and that will only work for a trace that you have access to. Another question concerns some gpx files which I have converted from my data collector shapefiles. Converted gpx trackpoints have timestamps with running millisecond values (for example time2008-02-15T12:00:00.012Z/time) While Potlatch shows the uploaded track fine with a neat blue line, the Convert to data layer function in JOSM does not order trackpoints correctly by milliseconds. Is it supposed to do so or is it just better to make running seconds instead of milliseconds? The server only stores points to 1s resolution I believe, so Potlatch has no choice in the case where it is displaying all points in the area. When displaying a single trace it has the original XML file available so could use greater resolution if it wished. If you've really got a significant number of points that only differ at the subsecond level then you're probably logging too frequently anyway ;-) Tom -- Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Gpx: non-public traces in JOSM/Potlatch and milliseconds in timestamps with JOSM
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rahkonen Jukka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my case the original shapefiles are usually in good shape :) Field data collector software takes care of not storing too many nodes. But the software has its own native data format and only shapefiles as another output option. Therefore I need to make conversion to gpx so I can upload the data for evidence of the origin. The whole point of uploading the GPS files as evidence is that they show we actually went out with a GPS unit. I'm not sure that generating what sound like fake GPS traces from some other source and then uploading those as evidence is really a good idea... Or have I misunderstood what you're doing? Tom -- Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New in JOSM: Paste Tags
On 26/02/2008 14:02, David Earl wrote: On 26/02/2008 09:43, Martijn Verwijmeren wrote: On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:41:20 + David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have added a new operation on the JOSM Edit menu: Paste Tags (CTRL+SHIFT+V). This will be in tomorrow's build. I had some trouble with this new operation. See: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/631 Sorry about that. I'll investigate. OK, I've fixed it. I'm afraid I was thinking how something works in PHP rather than Java, and it wasn't quite equivalent. Unfortunately it wasn't a consequence of actually doing the Paste Tags itself: it would happen whenever the selection changes in certain ways. However, it would only happen if you have previously used Edit Copy, so it isn't a total show stopper. Nevertheless it is serious crash which this might justify Frederick starting a build manually. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New in JOSM: Paste Tags
Hi, OK, I've fixed it. I'm afraid I was thinking how something works in PHP rather than Java, and it wasn't quite equivalent. :-) JOSM can also be a bitch when it comes to object modification, since it makes a point of only having exactly one copy of every object. Nevertheless it is serious crash which this might justify Frederick starting a build manually. Done. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lester Caine wrote: | Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: | | On that list, my vote would be, in order of preference, 1,3,2 | | I've made a wiki page to collect votes, if people think that's a good idea. | | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Car_park | | Robert you are missing the whole point here. | | While the access=public applies to car parks - this would be preserved by the | general rule of copying the node tags to the area. | ANY POI that is changed from node to area will potentially have the same | problem, and we should be fixing the general rule not starting to build | another set of pages for voting on every POI node/area conflict debate? I don't want people to say Well, delete the ones for car park, but nodes for shopping centre should be something else. We'll deal with shopping centres or whatever else there is on the horizon later, and we will be able to refer back to the car park vote as a strong precedent. I was just trying to stop this stupid thread going around and around getting nowhere, and get the car park situation fixed by means of a vote ASAP. We could then use it as a precedent when it comes to other cases. Maybe I should have made the vote general, I probably should have used a better wikiname than Car_Park, but I didn't - I was in a hurry :-) Robert (Jamie) Munro Ps. Please can someone who thinks we shouldn't delete them please go and vote. It's looking rather one-sided at the moment. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Car_park Also it would be interesting to see someone elses second choice. Pps. Fröstel: I've rewritten your comment as a 4th vote option and signed you up for it - please can you check you are happy with that. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHxCYVz+aYVHdncI0RAkJ3AJ9qUoz/z4iw9BBYJKdOlA1DGY9jSQCfXtns rBv//v2eILXWCRvlirBI8Ro= =mYga -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
On 26/02/2008 15:43, David Earl wrote: On 26/02/2008 14:45, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: Lester Caine wrote: | ANY POI that is changed from node to area will potentially have the same | problem, and we should be fixing the general rule not starting to build | another set of pages for voting on every POI node/area conflict debate? I strongly disagree with doing this generally, and will get very upset if you start deleting my carefully surveyed school nodes for example. The positions where I've put of these is significant within quite extensive school grounds. I should say, I'd have no strong objection in this case to changing these amenity=school nodes to building=school NODES, but that's a very different prospect from deleting them. Ideally I'd have building=school areas, but it is rarely possible to get the shapes on the ground, and Yahoo satellite imagery is a luxury reserved for particular urban areas (someone has carefully done this for the Cambridge colleges, which looks great). David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
On 26/02/2008 14:45, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: Lester Caine wrote: | ANY POI that is changed from node to area will potentially have the same | problem, and we should be fixing the general rule not starting to build | another set of pages for voting on every POI node/area conflict debate? I strongly disagree with doing this generally, and will get very upset if you start deleting my carefully surveyed school nodes for example. The positions where I've put of these is significant within quite extensive school grounds. And secondly, I see no reason to change anything until it causes a problem. The Parking nodes are an issue now because of the rendering. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] api www down
It seems that OSM suddenly got a bit more attention than our servers can handle: http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/26/1255213 www api are responding slowly or not at all at the moment. wiki is still up: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Platform_Status greets, Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
David Earl wrote: On 26/02/2008 15:43, David Earl wrote: On 26/02/2008 14:45, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: Lester Caine wrote: | ANY POI that is changed from node to area will potentially have the same | problem, and we should be fixing the general rule not starting to build | another set of pages for voting on every POI node/area conflict debate? I strongly disagree with doing this generally, and will get very upset if you start deleting my carefully surveyed school nodes for example. The positions where I've put of these is significant within quite extensive school grounds. I should say, I'd have no strong objection in this case to changing these amenity=school nodes to building=school NODES, but that's a very different prospect from deleting them. This is exactly where agreement on just which tags mean what is essential. If we are looking for all schools in a town we want a list of single entries! We don't want to be guessing if two entries with similar names are actually the same school :( Or if a town has 10 or 20 schools based on the returned data. Ideally I'd have building=school areas, but it is rarely possible to get the shapes on the ground, and Yahoo satellite imagery is a luxury reserved for particular urban areas (someone has carefully done this for the Cambridge colleges, which looks great). And as far as I can see data wise we get a list of collages with single entries for each. But starting from a single node POI and then changing to an area is a logical progression. If the original node is supplying some information missing from the area then THAT needs to be addressed, but if the new area is just enhancing the information, loosing the node should not be a problem? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Gpx: non-public traces in JOSM/Potlatch and milliseconds in timestamps with JOSM
Tom Hughes wrote: Jukka Rahkonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While Potlatch shows the uploaded track fine with a neat blue line, the Convert to data layer function in JOSM does not order trackpoints correctly by milliseconds. Is it supposed to do so or is it just better to make running seconds instead of milliseconds? The server only stores points to 1s resolution I believe, so Potlatch has no choice in the case where it is displaying all points in the area. When displaying a single trace it has the original XML file available so could use greater resolution if it wished. If we're just talking ordering, Potlatch, as you say, just orders by timestamp per track (ORDER BY fileid DESC, timestamp). However I'm willing to believe that MySQL might, within this constraint, return them in the order of insertion. That would mean that Potlatch would get the order right anyway. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
Mark Williams wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lester Caine wrote: J.D. Schmidt wrote: Lester Caine skrev: [big snip] LOGICALLY - there should never have been a problem created. A POI element should consist of a single entity which may have additional area information. Even those tags that are currently only defined as 'node' in many cases WILL be expanded to include area information at some point. So PLEASE can we have some sensible method of identifying PAIRS of tags so we can THEN decide what to do with them !!! Is this not a job for relations? If the pair were related, then we have no problem? Correct - but how do you identify elements uniquely so you can create the relation? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lester Caine wrote: Mark Williams wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lester Caine wrote: J.D. Schmidt wrote: Lester Caine skrev: [big snip] LOGICALLY - there should never have been a problem created. A POI element should consist of a single entity which may have additional area information. Even those tags that are currently only defined as 'node' in many cases WILL be expanded to include area information at some point. So PLEASE can we have some sensible method of identifying PAIRS of tags so we can THEN decide what to do with them !!! Is this not a job for relations? If the pair were related, then we have no problem? Correct - but how do you identify elements uniquely so you can create the relation? I would assume a) manually or b) As per the prior discussion on generating the Mapnik duplicate points eliminating clashes, by algorithm. Manually would give better data, but I have a lot of parking marked up by me - and it seems I'm not alone :) - so perhaps (b) should be done as a one-off, after a consensus has been gained? A bit of manual clean-up after a mass conversion would be OK, and as it's a relation it's not adding new nodes where there's only an area, nor vice-versa, and it lets any interested renderers do it properly. It wouldn't do anything nasty with the underlying data that I can see. I see I'm not the only one to suggest it... Mark -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mandriva - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHxFnRJfMmcSPNh94RAishAJ0VwGm2EDqng66Za1mRhnxgQ9XfWQCffjJC 6Bhf5s99t7wqYo0/QStvw2I= =1r0F -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Namefinder turned off for now
I'm afraid I've had to turn off the name finder service for the time being as my provider is complaining about the load it is imposing on my shared host. I really must get back to revamping this to cope with the massively increased database size, both for index creation and searching. I'll reinstate it as soon as I can, with increased efficiency both for searches and index creation. But even so I may need to ask that this goes on an OSM server. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] reminder: 2nd Birmingham Micro Mapping Event - Inside theRingroad - Sunday 2nd March
Not sure I can come along to this one but will text you, Andy, on the day. I'll see if I can get a decent picture of the new St. Chad's Circus when I'm in one of the buildings for my driving theory test on Friday. Floor 18 so should be high enough. :) Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote: Mike Paley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sent: 26 February 2008 3:38 PM To: Andy Robinson (blackadder) Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] reminder: 2nd Birmingham Micro Mapping Event - Inside theRingroad - Sunday 2nd March Hi Andy, The 2nd Birmingham Micro Mapping Event - Inside the Ringroad - which follows on from the success of the first one a month ago, is scheduled for this Sunday morning 2nd March starting at 9:00am (meeting at Millennium Point). A morning of mapping fun for all, no GPS required. We'll reconvene in one of the local hostelries at lunchtime :-) Which one ? We usually decide that when everyone is there. Last time we simply wandered into one of the eateries by the canal at Brindley Place. This time I'm sure we will do something similar on the east side or around Aston University (Sack or Potatoes or something perhaps). Communicating via mobile phone on the day makes it all very easy and relaxed. How many people turn up to these 'events' ? Varies a great deal. Last time for the Sunday morning there were 4 of us. What do you do ? (especially without a GPS receiver ?) Later this week I will upload the data from some out-of-copyright mapping for the target area. It's just the street alignments. On the Sunday we gather the names of the streets, locations and extents of the major landuse areas and add in all the other interesting stuff. Those with GPS receivers get those new streets and changes of configuration etc. Usually we carve up an area to avoid too many overlaps. What area do you anticipate covering in the morning ? Again it depends on numbers. I'd expect to complete the area around Aston University and around to the A34 in the north and around to A41 in the south. All inside the middle ringroad. Some of the area is partly done already. Anyone is of course quite at liberty to map elsewhere if they wish too. Its all got to be done this year :-) Mike (curious!). Hope we'll see you? It's very relaxed and a lot of fun and I always find a lot of new things I never knew about the area. Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Cheers, Tom - www.tracktwo.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Trouble in Rangoon [x-post]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andrew Harris schrieb: I posted this initially in newbies (because I am a noob and didn't know if this was a common query), but having received no reply, I'm casting the net a little wider... I was just about to show a friend who lives in Rangoon, the surprisingly good maps of the area on OSM, when I loaded it up and was a bit horrified to find what looks to be a whole tile missing. My guess is a corruption caused by someone entering Burmese script, but how can you check (and roll back) the history over a whole area? http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=16.796lon=96.1546zoom=13layers=B0FT The conspiracy theorist in me is mildly alarmed that someone from 'the regime' has just gone and deleted it all. hmm - openstreetmap.org seems to be down at the moment - another 'youtube'? the mapnik layer and the openstreetmap page are both affected by a network outage at our hosting sponsor. http://informationfreeway.org with the osmarender layer still does work though. - -- Dirk-Lüder Deelkar Kreie Bremen - 53.0952°N 8.8652°E -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHxM+MFUbODdpRVDwRAqLWAJ9Q/Y/aAvcSpXNNmXa+cE4hQvLcOgCdHl/F 0OJR3RF1sG5WAAuGPcpISgA= =cAtb -END PGP SIGNATURE- smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lester Caine wrote: | Mark Williams wrote: | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | Hash: SHA1 | | Lester Caine wrote: | J.D. Schmidt wrote: | Lester Caine skrev: | [big snip] | | LOGICALLY - there should never have been a problem created. A POI element | should consist of a single entity which may have additional area information. | Even those tags that are currently only defined as 'node' in many cases WILL | be expanded to include area information at some point. So PLEASE can we have | some sensible method of identifying PAIRS of tags so we can THEN decide what | to do with them !!! | | Is this not a job for relations? If the pair were related, then we have | no problem? | | Correct - but how do you identify elements uniquely so you can create the | relation? I'm not quite sure what you mean, but to try to bring this back onto topic, if you mean How do we find amenity=parking nodes that are duplicates of areas? the answer is that we find all the nodes inside areas. If there are any that are just outside, we will miss them, whici is annoying, but not the end of the world. In order to find them, we can use a Simple postGIS query as suggested by Dave Stubbs (which I have attempted to reformat a bit): select p.osm_id ~ from planet_osm_point as p, ~ planet_osm_polygon as a where a.osm_id!=p.osm_id ~ and a.osm_id in ( ~select a.osm_id from planet_osm_point as p, planet_osm_polygon as a ~where a.amenity='parking' ~ and p.amenity='parking' ~ and a.way p.way ~ and intersects(a.way, p.way) ~group by a.osm_id ~having count(p.osm_id) 1 ~ ) ~ and p.amenity='parking' ~ and a.way p.way ~ and intersects(a.way,p.way); Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHxF6/z+aYVHdncI0RAh6PAKCtfn/vsqSso7HUrD/3csG2prh5WACeMmZn Y8CEJCVGmItUyvNr7qx0azw= =srxW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] api www down
I am also experiencing the outage. How much extra load from Slashdot are we talking about here? It's a pitty they can't see OSM at it's best. On 26/02/2008, Stefan Baebler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that OSM suddenly got a bit more attention than our servers can handle: http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/26/1255213 www api are responding slowly or not at all at the moment. wiki is still up: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Platform_Status greets, Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] api www down
I am also experiencing the outage. How much extra load from Slashdot are we talking about here? It's a pitty they can't see OSM at it's best. On 26/02/2008, Stefan Baebler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that OSM suddenly got a bit more attention than our servers can handle: http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/26/1255213 www api are responding slowly or not at all at the moment. wiki is still up: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Platform_Status greets, Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] Google SoC
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stephan Schildberg schrieb: OSM ist schon dabei sich zu bewerben: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Google_Summer_of_Code Herzlichen Dank, darauf bin ich noch nicht gestossen. Lg, Wolfgang. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHw8ch1Iv7pFQO3noRAifZAJ0aSnUulESkiWGGIvp2KW3bPsdhqQCg0FKZ fIrrH4gj8Uz++iBtDbSM2hM= =0Aze -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Parallele ways
Siehe mein Tool unten auf der Seite http://www.lenz-online.de/divers/mapping Könnte das nicht in JOSM integriert werden? Selbstverständlich könnte es :) Jedoch nicht von mir, ich kann kein Java. Paul ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wanderwege, Klettersteige, Kletterfelsen
Christoph Eckert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ich finde außerdem dass man einen eigenen tag bräuchte wie highway=trail oder so den man dann mit einem weiteren Tag verfeinern kann (wie die Tracks beispielsweise). Das sehe ich eigentlich auch so. Wir sollten da eventuell mal ein proposal auf der englischsprachigen Mailingliste oder im Wiki starten. Ich denke dass wir definitiv 3-5 Wegkategorien ähnlich wie bei Tracks brauchen. Wenn wir eine ordentliche Struktur für solche Wege haben holen wir uns eine Menge Leute ins Boot, bei denen sowieso schon viele mit GPS rumlaufen :) Sven -- I'm a bastard, and proud of it (Linus Torvalds, Wednesday Sep 6, 2000) /me is [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Parallele ways
Paul Lenz schrieb: Siehe mein Tool unten auf der Seite http://www.lenz-online.de/divers/mapping Könnte das nicht in JOSM integriert werden? Selbstverständlich könnte es :) Jedoch nicht von mir, ich kann kein Java. Schade, ich leider auch nicht. Die Resonanz dafür scheint auch nicht sehr gross zu sein, Merlkaartor hat es. Gruß Dieter Jasper ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wanderwege, Klettersteige, Kletterfelsen
Am Dienstag 26 Februar 2008 schrieb Christian Linder: Hab mal ein wenig darüber nachgedacht, ich habe drei Vorschläge: (A) hiking_grade = beginner (absolute beginner, never done this) = intermediate (have been hiking a couple of times, know the basics) = advanced (have done this numerous time over several years, advanced knowledge) = professional (or expert) Oder besser hiking_difficulty? Das könnte man auch für andere Sportarten verwenden, z.B. biking_grade, kayaking_grade. klingt gut fuer mich. ich wuerde das tag generell difficulty oder grade nennen, dann liesse es sich universal mit den genannten abstufungen verwenden. Die von mir oben zitierte Skala des Schweizer Alpenvereins http://www.hiking-trail.ch/index.php?id=82L=2 sac_scale = 1,2,3,4,5,6 Vorteil: gut dokumentierter Standard, Kategorien genau definiert Nachteil: schwer zu merken, jeder muss die Definition nachlesen kann man ja noch zusaetzlich angeben, wo vorhanden. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] WMS Server
On Monday 25 February 2008 21:48:03 Sven Grüner wrote: Sven Grüner schrieb: Dort scheint momentan einiges schief zu laufen. Oha, allerdings. Karten, unter anderem welche, die von der Hamburger Wiki-Seite dorthin verlinkt waren, sind nicht mehr da und Upload und referenzieren geht momentan gar nicht. Dazu gab es eine Meldung, dass die bisherigen Daten auf rätselhafte weise verschwunden sind und man sich um die Rekonstruktion bemüht. Wie die Domain verrät ist dort halt alles eher experimentell. Habe jetzt zwei mails mit dem Betreiber gewechselt und erfahren, das sie den Dienst eigentlich gar nicht aktiv betreiben, sondern die Sachen halt noch von früher am laufen sind. Er hat den aktuellen Fehler aber (ausnahmsweise) trotzdem gefixt. Ohja, vielen Dank. Hoffentlich haelt es diesmal wenigstens so lange, bis die Luftbilder Verwertung gefunden haben. :-\ Sind irgendwelche Alternativen zu diesem Dienst bekannt? Mir waeren auch lokale Kruecken recht. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Parkplätze
Christoph Eckert schrieb: Also ich hab jetzt schon 2 stellen, wo mich folgendes stört: Ein Parkplatz, in der mitte ein gebäude, in der regel ein supermarkt (nicht gerade selten, unser penny und unser rewe in murrhardt sind so). osmarender macht hier jetzt das P auf das Gebäude, auch wenn daneben genug platz wäre. osmerender setzt das Icon gna-den-los in die Mitte der BoundingBox. Mehr Intelligenz gibt es gerade nicht. Nicht nur das... Ich habe mal angefangen, einige meiner Parkplätze umzubauen. Die Beschriftung wird jetzt nicht mehr etwas versetzt über dem P, sondern mitten drauf gesetzt. Das kann's ja wohl nicht sein! ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Navit
Moinsen, Ich weiß zwar das das Proggi noch im Beta bzw. Alpha Stadium ist, aber irgendwie zweifel ich gerade dadran das ich richtig gemappt habe... Weil Deutschland kennt das Prog ja noch, aber alles andere wie die ganzen Städte kennt er wiederrum nicht, und Straßen schon gar nicht... Und jetzt ist halt meine Frage.. Isses mein Fehler, oder liegt es an navit? mfg, Christopher ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Flyer Update
Es sind jetzt noch knapp 2000 Flyer uebrig. Ein paar koennen wir sicher fuer die FOSSGIS im April brauchen (da haben wir etwas Einfluss auf die Teilnehmer-Tueten, die die Leute kriegen, eventuell kann man in jede einen reintun, mal fragen) und fuer den Linuxtag, aber so 1000 Stueck stehen auch noch zum Versand an die Community zur Verfuegung, also wenn jemand noch Bedarf hat, einfach melden. Wenn alle verbraucht sind, drucken wir Version 2.0 ;-) Soll ich mal in die diversen Openstreetmapforen schreiben, dass es bei dir Flyer kostenlos gibt? Ich denke da gibt es noch einige Interessenten, die aber nicht hier mitlesen. Wenn ja, wie soll ichs mit der Mailadresse machen? Gruß Jonas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Navit
Christopher Dyrlich schrieb: Moinsen, Ich weiß zwar das das Proggi noch im Beta bzw. Alpha Stadium ist, aber irgendwie zweifel ich gerade dadran das ich richtig gemappt habe... Weil Deutschland kennt das Prog ja noch, aber alles andere wie die ganzen Städte kennt er wiederrum nicht, und Straßen schon gar nicht... Und jetzt ist halt meine Frage.. Isses mein Fehler, oder liegt es an navit? Hiho, das liegt an navit. Das kann in OSM-Daten noch nicht nach Namen suchen, das ist alles. Müsste man mal in der osm2navit.c implementieren Jannis smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flyer Update
Hallo, Soll ich mal in die diversen Openstreetmapforen schreiben, dass es bei dir Flyer kostenlos gibt? Kannst Du gern machen, und dazu schreiben, dass die Leute bitte entweder 10 oder 100 bestellen sollen (der Versand von 11 ist naemlich genauso teuer wie der von 100!) Wenn ja, wie soll ichs mit der Mailadresse machen? Kannst meine Adresse gern einfach so angeben. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00.09' E008°23.33' ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Parkplätze
Moin, Nein, eigentlich nicht. Da kommt dieser Algorithmus zum Einsatz: http://bob.cakebox.net/poly-center.php cool. Das muss dann aber recht neu sein. Gruß, ce ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Parkplätze
Hallo, Nein, eigentlich nicht. Da kommt dieser Algorithmus zum Einsatz: http://bob.cakebox.net/poly-center.php cool. Das muss dann aber recht neu sein. Ich musste mal fuer den Bundeswettbewerb Informatik einen Interpreter fuer eine Programmiersprache schreiben, die als einzige Operation das Austauschen von Zeichenketten beherrschte. Es stellte sich heraus, dass auch diese Sprache turing-vollstaendig war; wenn man nur genuegend viel unlesbaren Code schreibt, kann man alles damit machen. Aeh, jetzt weiss ich gerade gar nicht mehr, warum mir das ausgerechnet jetzt eingefallen ist. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00.09' E008°23.33' ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flyer Update
Frederik Ramm schrieb: Soll ich mal in die diversen Openstreetmapforen schreiben, dass es bei dir Flyer kostenlos gibt? Kannst Du gern machen, und dazu schreiben, dass die Leute bitte entweder 10 oder 100 bestellen sollen (der Versand von 11 ist naemlich genauso teuer wie der von 100!) Okay, habs jetzt mal in die 3 mir bekannten Openstreetmapforen geschrieben. Gruß Jonas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Parallele ways
Siehe mein Tool unten auf der Seite http://www.lenz-online.de/divers/mapping Könnte das nicht in JOSM integriert werden? Kann es sein, dass Du das heute ausprobiert hast, und es funktionierte nicht? Da war noch ein böser Bug drin... keine Ahnung, wie es dazu kommen konnte, ich habe das Programm selbst schon öfters benutzt, wahrscheinlich habe ich es danach verschlimmbessert und nicht getestet. Asche auf mein Haupt und 20 km Strafmappen per Fahrrad! Paul ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Navit
Was hast Du den für eine Karte geladen? Kannst Du andere Länder anzeigen oder hast Du nur Probleme mit dem Routen dort? Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Parkplätze
Am 26.02.2008 um 20:41 schrieb Gerald.Oppen: Wie sieht es den eigentlich mit unterschiedlichen Parkplatzsymbolen aus? Wäre schön wenn man zwischen PR Parkplätzen, Wanderpakplätzen, kommerziellen Parkplätzen unterscheiden könnte. Ausserdem noch ein Geldsymbol für kostenpflichtige Parkplätze einblenden hätte auch was... Das hatte ich damals alles bereits in meinem Proposal zur Erweiterung von amenity=parking berücksichtigt. Leider hat sich das bislang noch nicht auf das Rendering ausgewirkt ;) Gruß, Wabba ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Parallele ways
Paul Lenz schrieb: Siehe mein Tool unten auf der Seite http://www.lenz-online.de/divers/mapping Könnte das nicht in JOSM integriert werden? Kann es sein, dass Du das heute ausprobiert hast, und es funktionierte nicht? Nein habe ich heute noch nicht. Hatte es aber vor ein paar Wochen schon mal entdeckt und wieder vergessen. Da war noch ein böser Bug drin... keine Ahnung, wie es dazu kommen konnte, ich habe das Programm selbst schon öfters benutzt, wahrscheinlich habe ich es danach verschlimmbessert und nicht getestet. Asche auf mein Haupt und 20 km Strafmappen per Fahrrad! 20 km per Fahrrad sind viel zu wenig. Schlage folgende Bestrafung vor: - Tool in Java programmieren und in JOSM integrieren alternativ - 20 km Strafmappen und Kette mit 10kg Kugel am Bein MfG Dieter Jasper Paul ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Parallele ways
20 km per Fahrrad sind viel zu wenig. Schlage folgende Bestrafung vor: - Tool in Java programmieren und in JOSM integrieren alternativ - 20 km Strafmappen und Kette mit 10kg Kugel am Bein Bevor ich anfange, Subroutinen Klassen und Befehle Methoden zu nennen, gebe ich mir... äh... nehme ich lieber die Kugel. Paul ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Parallele ways
Hallo, Bevor ich anfange, Subroutinen Klassen und Befehle Methoden zu nennen, gebe ich mir... äh... nehme ich lieber die Kugel. Programmiersprachen-Chauvinismus ist in diesem Projekt fehl am Platz. Leute, denen Java nicht behagt, koennen auch in MUMPS an Osmxapi mitarbeiten ;-) Bye Frederik PS: Glueckwunsch zum boingboing-Ruhm, Paul! -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00.09' E008°23.33' ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Navit
Ich habs bis jetzt nur mal mit nen Ausschnit der Täglichen planet.osm von Frederick probiert, was ich aber sagen muss ist, das er Manuell Routen tut. Also wenn ich ihn sage wo Start und wo Ziel ist, allerdings verweigert navit generell die Benutzung von Autobahnen, genau wie pyroute... Und das fand ich schon etwas heftig, wenn man 20km über normale Straßen fahren soll, wenn direkt neben an, ne Autobahn auf und Abfahrt ist :D On Tuesday 26 February 2008 20:37:15 Gerald.Oppen wrote: Was hast Du den für eine Karte geladen? Kannst Du andere Länder anzeigen oder hast Du nur Probleme mit dem Routen dort? Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Navit
Hi, allerdings verweigert navit generell die Benutzung von Autobahnen, genau wie pyroute... Und das fand ich schon etwas heftig, wenn man 20km über normale Straßen fahren soll, wenn direkt neben an, ne Autobahn auf und Abfahrt ist :D ich habe mir Navit noch nicht angesehen, vielleicht gibt der Code irgendwas noch nicht her oder es gibt einen Bug. Könnte aber auch sein, dass mit den Daten was nicht stimmt, beispielsweise eine Lücke im Weg oder aber eine Auf/Abfahrt ist falschrum als oneway getagged. Gruß, ce ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Parkplätze
Am Dienstag 26 Februar 2008 schrieb Christoph Eckert: Murrhardt sieht ja echt nett aus. Die Murr und den Trauzenbach müsste man allerdings nochmal ein schwimmfähiges GPS 'runterschwimmen lassen :) . Wir haben wasserfeste mapper, die das by foot machen sobald das wetter schöner wird :-) Allerdings wird das noch was größeres, weil es geht ja nicht nur um die Murr und den Trauzenbach, sondern auch um den Keebach, den Hörschbach, den Harbach, den Fornsbach, den Bartenbach... (ja, die gibt's alle in echt) Wer kam denn in der Gemeinde auf die Idee, sich eine Eurostraße und eine D-Mark-Straße auszudenken?!? Ja, was weiss ich? Aber googlemaps hat die an der falschen stelle :-) -- Hanno Böck Blog: http://www.hboeck.de/ GPG: 3DBD3B20 Jabber/Mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Reminder: OSM Treffen in Fürth am D onnerstag (übermorgen) um 19 Uhr!
Hi! Momentan scheint der OSM Server etwas slashdotted zu sein, aber trotzdem als reminder: 1. OSM Treffen NBG, FTH, ERL Stadtparkcafe, Engelhardtstr.20 Fürth 28.08.2008 19 Uhr Hope to see you there ... Gruß ULFL ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wanderwege, Klettersteige, Kletterfelsen
Ich habe nun deinem Frankenweg ein paar Kilometer nordwestlich von Kulmbach zugefügt. Ist das ok? Klar, so war das gedacht :) Eine Slippy-Wanderkarte wäre natürlich eine gute Motivation da etwas intensiver dran zu bleiben... Ja, aber solange hier um N noch so viele wege fehlen, mappe ich lieber, als dass ich mich um software-geschichten kümmere ;) Ich muss ja auch an meine gesundheit denken... ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-cz] renderovani turistickych znacek
Ahoj!
Trochu jsem si hral, tady je vysledek... teda zatim to renderuje jenom
modrou :-) ale to je jednoduche opravit.
Spis by to chtelo vymyslet jak to udelat aby to neprekryvalo mensi z
cest...
Pavel
--- osm-map-features-z17.xml.ofic 2008-02-27 00:02:16.0 +0100
+++ osm-map-features-z17.xml2008-02-27 01:08:04.0 +0100
@@ -1367,6 +1367,9 @@
text k=ref startOffset='30%'
class='highway-ref highway-cycleway-ref' dy='-0.8px' /
text k=ncn_ref startOffset='60%'
class='highway-ref highway-cycleway-ref' dy='-0.8px' /
/rule
+ rule e=way k=kct_blue v=yes
layer=5
+ line class='kct-blue' dy='-20px' /
+ /rule
rule e=way k=highway v=bridleway
layer=5
text k=ref startOffset='30%'
class='highway-ref highway-bridleway-ref' dy='-0.8px' /
/rule
@@ -1909,6 +1912,15 @@
font-weight: bold;
}
+ /* KCT marked trails */
+
+.kct-blue {
+stroke-linecap: round;
+stroke-linejoin: round;
+stroke: #ff;
+fill: none;
+}
+
/* Waterways */
.waterway-name-casing {
--
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures)
http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html
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Re: [Talk-cz] Geodis a Ortofoto Free
On Sat 2008-02-23 21:01:20, hanoj wrote: . *** a vis co je na WMS CENIA? ta same... Ja bych to nekomplikoval a jestli jsi se presvedcil, ze tvurce tech dat (GEODIS) proti odvozovani nic nema (ono to ortofoto se prave proto porizuje), vyuzil bych to skrze CENIA(teda BNHELP). Povedlo se to nekomu rozbehnout v josm? -- Jo, mě to běhá podle nastavení na wiki. Z nějakého záhadného důvodu to funguje ale jen na Linuxu, na Windows je nějak zmršená projekce (a pak že je Java multipaltformní ;-)). =TT= ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] Geodis a Ortofoto Free
Mam Windows a JOSM a barevna CENIA mi jede uplne krasne. Uz jsem skoro vsechny svoje GPX trasy porovnal a zanesl do OSM - fakt parada. Pokud mate problem s projekci, mate zrejme jeste z UHULU nastavenou projekci EPSG:4326. Prepnul jsem to na Mercator a je to jak p*del na hrnec. Lhotas On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:03:24 +0100, Pavel Machek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat 2008-02-23 21:01:20, hanoj wrote: dnes jsem volal do Geodisu Brno. Maji na svych strankach volnou verzi Ortofoto Mapy v rozliseni 5m/px. Ptal jsem se na omezeni uziti tohoto dila a bylo mi receno, ze pravdepodobne zadne omezeni neexistuje, protoze maji data v rozliseni 20cm/px, tudiz 5m nechavaji naprosto volne k dispozici. Jedina podminka je uvest zdroj, coz by nemel byt problem, protoze do obrazku se vzdy renderuje pruh s (C) Geodis. *** a vis co je na WMS CENIA? ta same... Ja bych to nekomplikoval a jestli jsi se presvedcil, ze tvurce tech dat (GEODIS) proti odvozovani nic nema (ono to ortofoto se prave proto porizuje), vyuzil bych to skrze CENIA(teda BNHELP). Povedlo se to nekomu rozbehnout v josm? -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Re : Cadastre
Cadastre, encore... ;-) Ça va faire bientôt trente ans, que j'ai à faire à des plans cadastraux, dans le cadre de mon boulot. Je ne suis pas juriste, ni spécialiste du Cadastre, mais veux vous faire part des expériences et usages que je rencontre sur le terrain. La question de base paraît simple : - L'information cadastrale contenue dans un plan cadastral est publique, mais il est interdit, de faire commerce de données cadastrales (pour payant ou pour free, ça ne change rien !). - Le plan cadastral contient un bon nombre d'informations qui ne sont PAS des données cadastrales. - Le plan lui-même, tel qu'il est, n'est PAS publique, peu importe sous quelle forme (papier, fichier bitmap, fichier vectoriel...) j'ai obtenu ce plan : Ce document est une oeuvre, et contient, en plus de données purement cadastrales et autres, un ou des droits d'auteur, une propriété intellectuelle. Donc j'ai le droit de scanner des plans cadastraux, anciens et actuels, de ré-assembler et mettre à l'échelle ces scans partiels en m'aidant des croix d'assemblage, pour ensuite les retracer MANUELLEMENT. Je peux utiliser le résultat comme base pour du travail supplémentaire, que je fais dessus - tout le travail que j'ai fait, d'abord m'appartient, (J'en fais, sur commande, aux fins de recherche scientifique, pour documentation du Patrimoine de la France, aussi pour des collectivités et pour des Administrations). Et le contrat définit, quels droits sont transférés au commanditaire. Un cas bien différent est, quand on me demande de dessiner un POS, une ZPPAUP, intégrer un relevé, un projet routier, ou de zonage : Là, je peux me servir d'une base de plan cadastral, même vectorielle, telle qu'elle est. Mes documents n'auront aucune valeur marchande, je ne les publie pas, ils sont remis à la Collectivité Territoriale qui m'a mandaté, et ils me payent pour le dessin que j'ai fait, dessus. Ces plans serviront à la gestion du territoire, et seront consultables en Mairie, à la Préfecture et caetera. Dans ces cas, l'institution qui me mandate, expressément acquiert TOUS les droits d'auteur y afférents : Une fois payé, je n'y ai plus aucun droit. Bon, assez souvent j'arrive me réserver un droit de représentation partiel et non exclusif, afin de pouvoir afficher ce que j'ai fait, faire de la pub pour moi ;-) Mais en AUCUN cas je pourrais prendre des plans cadastraux ou leurs copies, tels qu'ils sont, soient-ils en bitmap ou en vectoriel, et les divulguer, les multiplier, les publier, même pas les DONNER NI COMMUNIQUER gratuitement. Ce serait du VOL (sauf si j'aurais l'accord écrit du Ministère - et j'en doute qu'ils le donnent...). Cette propriété intellectuelle, cette création originelle du document en tant que tel est INDEPENDENTE des informations contenues dans les plans, elle appartient à eux. Bêtement intégrer un dxf ou dwg de cadastre dans la base de données d'osm ? NON, en aucun cas ! Même pas prendre un de leur dxf, en virer les calques inintéressants pour nous, et ne conserver que les calques avec les limites administratives ! Ça contient toujours et encore LEUR valeur artistique. Même pas en uploader leur dxf/dwg sur le serveur sous forme de gpx ou autre... Par contre, manuellement dessiner un way ou tracé dans un logiciel (par exemple dans autocad, illustrator, vectorworks ou autre) en s'aidant d'un sous-cul de dxf ou de scan du cadastre, puis effacer le calque du cadastre, et ne conserver que le way qu'on a tracé, soi-même, à la main, pourquoi pas, il me semble ? Le tracé que nous dessinons est plus-value, est notre travail et création. Toutefois il convient d'annoter la source (ce respect va de soi, je trouve), avec sa date de dernière mise à jour, et d'ajouter la mise en garde, qu'en aucun cas, le document qu'on a fait, pourra servir de référence cadastrale. Pour éviter toute confusion éventuelle (Autrement, on risquerait de faire commerce de données cadastrales, chose réservée au Cadastre). Données Cadastrales contenues dans le plan, si je ne me trompe pas, ce sont les limites de parcelles, les contenus des parcelles, leurs numéros et sections, les faits si des murs sont mitoyennes ou non, et ces choses-là : Tout ce qui définit les droits et obligations des propriétaires respectifs. Je ne pense pas, que les noms des rues et les numéros des maisons dans une rue soient des données cadastrales proprement dites : Les conseils municipaux changent les noms des rues comme on change de chemise (attendez les élections, pour en voir changer), et les numéros de rue, des maisons, indiqués sur le plan, parfois ne sont pas bonnes, ne correspondent pas aux numéros sur place. Combien de fois je tombe sur ce genre de dilemme... Il me semble que les noms de rue et leurs numéros de maison soient une référence POSTALE, et non cadastrale. La référence cadastrale, il me semble, c'est du Département W, Commune X, Section Y, Feuille n° XY, Lieudit PataMachin, Parcelle n° ZZZ
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Re : Cadastre
g.d a écrit : Cadastre, encore... ;-) Ça va faire bientôt trente ans, que j'ai à faire à des plans cadastraux, dans le cadre de mon boulot. Je ne suis pas juriste, ni spécialiste du Cadastre, mais veux vous faire part des expériences et usages que je rencontre sur le terrain. La question de base paraît simple : - L'information cadastrale contenue dans un plan cadastral est publique, mais il est interdit, de faire commerce de données cadastrales (pour payant ou pour free, ça ne change rien !). - Le plan cadastral contient un bon nombre d'informations qui ne sont PAS des données cadastrales. - Le plan lui-même, tel qu'il est, n'est PAS publique, peu importe sous quelle forme (papier, fichier bitmap, fichier vectoriel...) j'ai obtenu ce plan : Ce document est une oeuvre, et contient, en plus de données purement cadastrales et autres, un ou des droits d'auteur, une propriété intellectuelle. Donc j'ai le droit de scanner des plans cadastraux, anciens et actuels, de ré-assembler et mettre à l'échelle ces scans partiels en m'aidant des croix d'assemblage, pour ensuite les retracer MANUELLEMENT. Je peux utiliser le résultat comme base pour du travail supplémentaire, que je fais dessus - tout le travail que j'ai fait, d'abord m'appartient, (J'en fais, sur commande, aux fins de recherche scientifique, pour documentation du Patrimoine de la France, aussi pour des collectivités et pour des Administrations). Et le contrat définit, quels droits sont transférés au commanditaire. [...] Amicalement Gerhard. Merci Gerhard pour ces minutieuses précisions et ce témoignage. Je partage la quasi-totalité du propos. Il importe de ne pas confondre données et informations. Les premières sont protégées par le droit de la propriété intellectuelle (droit moraux et droits patrimoniaux). les secondes relèvent -dans le cas de la DGI- du domaine public. Le gouvernement met à disposition gratuitement des données cadastrales ; il y est contraint par la directive européenne INSPIRE. Dans le même temps, il met des limites contractuelles à l'exploitation des données qu'il met en ligne. C'est son droit de producteur exclusif de l'information foncière. A ce titre, il interdit l'utilisation commerciale du plan cadastral et personne le peut l'en blâmer tant l'ampleur du chantier est colossale. Personne ne souhaite, au sein du projet OSM, pirater les données cadastrales de la DGI ; encore moins d'en faire une nouvelle source de données opposables !!! Ce n'est pas notre objectif et il serait peut-être bon (nécessaire ?) de présenter les données OSM comme étant fournies as is, c'est-à-dire sans aucune garantie ni d'exactitude, ni de fiabilité, encore moins d'opposabilité. Juste le fruit d'expériences d'individus, de constatations terrain, de connaissances empiriques. Cela ne veut pas dire que les données OSM sont de moins bonne qualité que celles que peut fournir l'IGN ou n'importe quel autre prestataire de service géomatique. Au contraire, nous allons prouver qu'une donnée géographique de qualité peut être mise à disposition à coût 0 puisque nous travaillons bénévolement. Cela veut dire que les données que nous mettons à disposition sont des données originales. Qui dit originale, au sens de la loi de 1978 (consolidée depuis par bon nombre d'autres textes), ne veut pas dire qu'elle s'est créée à partir de rien (ou uniquement de récepteur GPS). Nous pouvons puiser, en toute légalité, dans l'information relevant du domaine public (comme les noms de lieu-dit, les noms de rues, etc.). Les critères d'originalité de l'oeuvre dont découlent les protections au titre du droit d'auteur, sont l'investissement conséquent de l'auteur (critère qu'OSM peut prouver assez facilement) et la structure des données (modèle conceptuel des données ?). Je me réfère particulièrement au chapitre sur le droit des auteurs de bases de données. Ainsi, le plan cadastral ne connaît pas l'objet tronçon de voie, pas plus que la zone occupée par un jardin ouvrier ou familial ou une zone industrielle. Ce sont des concepts que la DGI ignore. Dans mes expérimentations récentes, il m'est arrivé de tracer des voies -place Matthieu Zell sur Strasbourg-Cronenbourg- qui ne figurent pas sur le plan cadastre (pourtant récent), parce que simplement cette voie n'intéresse pas la DGI comme élément repérant de la réalité foncière. Le fait de se servir de calques de travail issus du site cadastre.gouv.fr n'est pas préjudiciable ni à l'originalité des données OSM, ni à leur mise à disposition sous licence CC tant que nous recopions pas bêtement des informations qui n'ont pas leur place sur OSM. Le caractère géoréférencé (au sens SIG du terme) de ces plans (1 sur 2 à peine) ne change rien à l'affaire dans la mesure où une rue de sera jamais l'assemblage des parcelles constituant la voie (domaine non cadastré ou pas). Ce sera toujours, une interprétation (Feature Model) d'une réalité dont une
