Re: [OSM-talk] Multiple OSM instances
On Tue, October 5, 2010 23:50, 80n wrote: > Are there any easy and simple steps that can be taken that could make the > existence of multiple OSMs a whole lot less painful? Yes. Combine them all into one project. Call it OSM. Best wishes, Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multiple OSM instances
Am 05.10.2010 17:37, schrieb 80n: How would a user know which platforms they are able to send contributions to? Is there some kind of contribution hierarchy with PD at the top and proprietary at the bottom? Should there be a registry somewhere? Where is the average contributor to OSM is coming from? Some will have heard that name somewhere on the net, in a Podcast on TV or in a Newspaper. I think a fork will have to go the same way: establish itself, geting their name into the media, getting the people talk about them. I don't see OSM in the responsibility to list forks prominently on osm.org. A fork should fight for attention just as osm did in the past, not just because it would be fair but also to prove that there is actually a benefit that makes the form more useful to contributors and end-users in comparison to osm. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] If you've missed this ...
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:59 AM, Richard Weait wrote: > http://opengeodata.org/osm-founder-steve-coast-leaves-cloudmade I am not convinced it is real until Fake Steve C. says so. All jokes aside, best of luck to him. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
On Wed, Oct 06, 2010 at 02:19:49AM +0200, Tobias Knerr wrote: > > Bug reports and feature ideas welcome. > > Do you have a bug tracker for these? You can use trac.openstreetmap.org and choose the component "taginfo". > Anyway, I'd love to see some more attention to values - currently it's > almost a "Keyinfo" tool. ;-) For example, it would be nice to > * search for tags (using key=value syntax) > * search for values, so all tags with the value will be listed > * get a map and "other keys" section for tags, too, not only keys. > > I don't know whether these features are feasible performance-wise, but > things like the map wouldn't even be needed for all values/tags. Those > that have an individual wiki page would be enough for a start - it would > make sense for things like amenity=restaurant or natural=tree, not so > much for each name=* value, imo. As you say, its a bit tricky performance, wise. But I'll find some way. I agree that those things are all needed. > Oh, and an OpenSearch definition would be a useful addition to the site. > Taginfo would definitely deserve that place right there in my browser's > toolbar. That should be doable. Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
Aww. No SPOTMaps for my mapping patch (Philippines). Just to add to Ævar's request, the mappers in the Philippines would really appreciate SPOT tracing. On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 14:06, Jean-Francois (Jeff) Faudi > wrote: >> I am talking on behalf of Spot Image. At this stage, we are only making a >> test over France. As soon as possible, we will try to evaluate the mutual >> benefits for Spot Image and OpenStreetMap in order to foster an extended >> collaboration. >> >> Here is the SPOtMaps page in English : >> http://www.spotimage.com/web/en/1285-spotmaps.php >> >> And I just want to correct the spelling for the source tag : source=Cnes / >> Spot Image > > Hi Jeff. I was wondering what the SPOT-5 coverage was over > Iceland. It's not listed on that page, in the KML file or in the > country list. But according to this: > > http://www.lmi.is/pages/fjarkonnun/spot-5-myndir-keyptar-2008-og-2009/ > > And: > > http://www.google.com/search?q=iceland+site:spotimage.com > > There's at least some coverage. But I assume it's really sparse or in > low resolution and is thus is not listed on the main listing? > > Anyway, if you're looking for a country that you probably have minimal > commercial gain anyway and that doesn't have any imagery already > (except for Landsat) the mappers in Iceland would love to get access > to SPOT-5 for tracing. > > Thanks for your time. > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 8:05 AM, maning sambale wrote: > Dear all, > > I stumbled into a blog post regarding the french osm community was > given permission to trace from Spot imagery. Is this for France only > coverage? This appears to be their English version of the license. http://www.youmapps.org/licenses/EULA-OSM-en.html I note a few small typos including OpensStreetMap for OpenStreetMap and a bad link to OSbL, which should be http://www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/ This seems a wonderfully generous offer and interesting collaborative experiment. Thank you, Jeff and Spot Image. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
Jochen Topf wrote: > For the last months I have been working on a software called Taginfo that > brings together information about OSM tags from the OSM database, the wiki > and other places. Somewhat like Tagwatch, Tagstat, and OSMdoc, but more > ambitious. :-) Very nice site, and some interesting unique features. I really like these maps, for example! > Bug reports and feature ideas welcome. Do you have a bug tracker for these? Anyway, I'd love to see some more attention to values - currently it's almost a "Keyinfo" tool. ;-) For example, it would be nice to * search for tags (using key=value syntax) * search for values, so all tags with the value will be listed * get a map and "other keys" section for tags, too, not only keys. I don't know whether these features are feasible performance-wise, but things like the map wouldn't even be needed for all values/tags. Those that have an individual wiki page would be enough for a start - it would make sense for things like amenity=restaurant or natural=tree, not so much for each name=* value, imo. Oh, and an OpenSearch definition would be a useful addition to the site. Taginfo would definitely deserve that place right there in my browser's toolbar. Tobias Knerr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] If you've missed this ...
http://opengeodata.org/osm-founder-steve-coast-leaves-cloudmade ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Jochen Topf wrote: > For the last months I have been working on a software called Taginfo that > brings together information about OSM tags from the OSM database, the wiki > and other places. Somewhat like Tagwatch, Tagstat, and OSMdoc, but more > ambitious. :-) Congratulations! We've talked about this a few months ago and I'm very glad that at least one of us was able to reach his goals :) I can recommend everyone to use this instead of OSMdoc for the foreseeable future. Cheers, Lars (author of OSMdoc) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Wiki Key/Value template
Hi, In the wiki template box for the key's and values, can we include a field for 'ShortDescription' and another field for 'LongDescription'? This way, the end-user can clearly understand what the funcation of the key/value is. and perhaps have another field for 'WikipediaArticleURL' so then the relevant article can be looked at. There also needs to be another field for 'rendering sample' as on the main map features pagem this exists. It would be great to see all the key/value pages making full use of the templates. cheers, sam -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
Awesome... I guess im a sucker for the manual work :) Anyway, that answers it. So my focus is on helping the wiki editors with making the documentation awesome. I'll be able to run through the map features page and copy the latest in a on-way direction so to make sure the wiki is the most current source. I'll just add a column for editor notes, to flag those tags that need some attetion. Overtime, the results of the popularity contest will level off, as more users begin to use the same tags :) cheers, sam On 10/5/10, Jochen Topf wrote: > On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 11:53:30AM -0700, Sam Vekemans wrote: >> Are you getting a live feed from the wiki (for the tag descriptions)? >> or do you manually copy it in to your database? > > No manual work involved. That would be way too much work. I wrote a program > that finds and parses all relevant wiki pages and extracts the information > from them. Its not a live feed, but it can be run, for instance, each night. > >> my spreadsheet has fields for links to sample pictures and sample >> renderings which could be possable to run a macro to get the latest >> update from it? > > You could use the Taginfo downloads or the API to access the information > that I > have gathered and put it into your spreadsheet. I haven't documented the API > or > database format yet, but once thats done, it should be easy to access the > data > I have and do something with it. > > Jochen > -- > Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ > +49-721-388298 > > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 11:53:30AM -0700, Sam Vekemans wrote: > Are you getting a live feed from the wiki (for the tag descriptions)? > or do you manually copy it in to your database? No manual work involved. That would be way too much work. I wrote a program that finds and parses all relevant wiki pages and extracts the information from them. Its not a live feed, but it can be run, for instance, each night. > my spreadsheet has fields for links to sample pictures and sample > renderings which could be possable to run a macro to get the latest > update from it? You could use the Taginfo downloads or the API to access the information that I have gathered and put it into your spreadsheet. I haven't documented the API or database format yet, but once thats done, it should be easy to access the data I have and do something with it. Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
cool! Are you getting a live feed from the wiki (for the tag descriptions)? or do you manually copy it in to your database? my spreadsheet has fields for links to sample pictures and sample renderings which could be possable to run a macro to get the latest update from it? cheers, sam On 10/5/10, Jochen Topf wrote: > On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 06:29:39PM +0100, Dave F. wrote: >> a couple of queries: >> >> If I search for a keyword using the top right box, it displays the >> results for 'Keys containing this word' a bit jumbled up. Is it possible >> to format the list into a more readable style? > > The search result page is just preliminary until I (or somebody else) gets > a better one in place. > >> In the exact match page for parking it says: >> 'More detailled information about amenity=parking' >> >> It makes the assumption that all parking tags are under amenity= >> >> We all know these things don't happen & people tag in all sorts of ways. > > That sentence is from the wiki. Fix it there. :-) > >> Is there a way to list other uses of parking as a value tag? > > Not yet. > >> Oh, & detailed is spelt incorrectly. > > Again, fix it in the wiki. > > Jochen > -- > Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ > +49-721-388298 > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 06:29:39PM +0100, Dave F. wrote: > a couple of queries: > > If I search for a keyword using the top right box, it displays the > results for 'Keys containing this word' a bit jumbled up. Is it possible > to format the list into a more readable style? The search result page is just preliminary until I (or somebody else) gets a better one in place. > In the exact match page for parking it says: > 'More detailled information about amenity=parking' > > It makes the assumption that all parking tags are under amenity= > > We all know these things don't happen & people tag in all sorts of ways. That sentence is from the wiki. Fix it there. :-) > Is there a way to list other uses of parking as a value tag? Not yet. > Oh, & detailed is spelt incorrectly. Again, fix it in the wiki. Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
On 05/10/2010 14:37, Jochen Topf wrote: For the last months I have been working on a software called Taginfo... Looks like this could be useful. a couple of queries: If I search for a keyword using the top right box, it displays the results for 'Keys containing this word' a bit jumbled up. Is it possible to format the list into a more readable style? In the exact match page for parking it says: 'More detailled information about amenity=parking' It makes the assumption that all parking tags are under amenity= We all know these things don't happen & people tag in all sorts of ways. Is there a way to list other uses of parking as a value tag? Oh, & detailed is spelt incorrectly. Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multiple OSM instances
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Serge Wroclawski wrote: > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 10:50 AM, 80n <80n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > It's inevitable that there will be at least one fork of OSM content if > the > > license is switched to ODbL + CT. > > That's yet to be seen, unless you're saying that you personally will > make it happen. > > > So the question I'd like to ask is, what things can be done to make such > > projects play nicer and interoperate better when they do happen? > > Unsubscribing from osm-talk will go a long way to making people close > to the project stop being angry with the forkers, if they don't > interrupt our work with constant complaints couched in terms of > "thought experiments" or "theoretical questions". > > Serge, this is the kind of thing that would achive exactly the opposite of what I am asking for. Two or more incompatible projects would not help OSM contributors and it would not help users of OSM data. Who exactly would benefit from what you propose? You can have thought experiments about there only being one OSMish project if you wish, but it wouldn't be helpful or realistic. I'm asking for positive and helpful suggestions that deal with the situation that we are going to be in. > > I'm not > > just interested in technical solutions, but also organisational and > > community based solutions. What guidelines should duplicate OSMs follow? > > It'll greatly depend on the individuals involved, but some of the > forkers have lost a lot of respect of the OSM community by being > generally disruptive, by making unsubstantiated claims, spreading FUD, > and talking about forking nearly twice a week for several months. At > that point it becomes difficult to work with such a person > collaboratively. It's possible not all the forkers are like that, but > certainly the loudest forkers on this list have created a situation of > a difficult interpersonal relationship, which will detract from any > attempt at a collabrorative environment. > I'm not aware that there's been much talk on this list about forking, and this post is about cooperation anyway. Perhaps you've been reading some other list. > > Once bitten, twice shy, as they say. > > > I'm particularly interested in how it could be made easier for > contributors > > to handle the situation. How will they know which OSM they should > > contribute to? > > There is only one OSM project. Other projects shouldn't be using the OSM > name. > - Serge > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 06:54:04PM +0200, Sebastian Klein wrote: > I'd prefer if it would not show a vertical scrollbar. This way you could > use the full height of your monitor to read the results. Would it be too > much to ask for, like, a maximum of 500 entries per page instead of > currently 40? I am not sure I quite understand, what you want. You don't want a scrollbar but still see 500 entries on your screen? How big is your monitor? :-) I just tried with 500 entries and it will become too slow. At least in Firefox. I get the dreaded warning about a runaway Javascript script. I will add 100 entries as an option which is still reasonably fast. Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Checking if I understand correctly...
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Mike Collinson wrote: > At 02:58 AM 5/10/2010, Steve Bennett wrote: > >On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 8:15 PM, David Groom > wrote: > >> The particular issues I believe you have concerns with have also been > >> discussed extensively on this list. You wont be surprised if I say that > not > >> everyone agrees with you interpretation. > > > >Oh? Which bit - and what's the consensus interpretation? > > > >> However the CT's are currently being revised, > >> https://docs.google.com/View?id=dd9g3qjp_81272pvt54 and the revised > >> version probably will give you less concern. > > > >Not really - the change from "you must be the copyright owner" to "you > >must have permission from the copyright owner to relicense their work" > >doesn't really change anything, I don't think? Either way, existing > >CC-BY-SA content is inadmissible without explicit authorisation from > >its owner. (In other words, existing CC-BY-SA licensing is worthless, > >since you need explicit permission anyway.) > > > >But if I'm incorrect, please tell me. > > I think there are two issues here. > > A CC-BY-SA license *is* an explicit permission to you by the rights holder. > So that is not a problem and we will revise the CTs to better communicate > that in plain language. > > But what is a problem is that applying a CC-BY-SA license to highly factual > information is very vague as to what you can actually do (or, more > correctly, what you should not do) and is not recommended by the authors of > the license. > What's specifically is vague about the CC-BY-SA license? The language used in CC-BY-SA 3.0 is very clear and precise: *""Work"* means the literary and/or artistic work offered under the terms of this License including without limitation any production in the literary, scientific and artistic domain, whatever may be the mode or form of its expression including digital form, such as ... an illustration, map, plan, sketch or three-dimensional work relative to geography, ...; a compilation of data to the extent it is protected as a copyrightable work;" The key clauses being: "whatever may be the mode or form of its expression including digital form" and "map, plan, sketch or three-dimensional work relative to geography" > > So you really need to go back to the actual rights holder and ask them to > clarify what they personally/organisationally are happy with, or better > still, use a more appropriate license. That is a major reason we want to > move away from it ourselves. > The spirit of the share-alike clauses within the CC-BY-SA license is patently obviously inconsistent with all of the CT and the ODbL and the DbCL licenses. > > The other alternative is for us collectively to get a highly authoritative > source to say that a CC-BY-SA license on data could reasonably be > interpreted as giving permission to contribute to OSM. I'll find out where > we are on that. > Who have you got in mind? > > Mike > > > ___ > legal-talk mailing list > legal-t...@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk > ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
Jochen Topf wrote: For the last months I have been working on a software called Taginfo that brings together information about OSM tags from the OSM database, the wiki and other places. Somewhat like Tagwatch, Tagstat, and OSMdoc, but more ambitious. :-) I am happy to announce that the beast is now available at http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de There are still some bugs and lots of missing features, but its already usable. Updates are currently done manually, but I will do automatic daily updates soon. All the software to run this is Open Source so please go ahead, run your own versions and send me patches. More details and background in my blog entry at: http://blog.jochentopf.com/2010-10-05-introducing-taginfo.html Bug reports and feature ideas welcome. Wow, this is amazing! I'd prefer if it would not show a vertical scrollbar. This way you could use the full height of your monitor to read the results. Would it be too much to ask for, like, a maximum of 500 entries per page instead of currently 40? Sebastian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Jo wrote: > I downloaded josm-latest.jar, started it, F12, download list, update >> plugins, but nothing related to SPOT is available among my plugins. Do I >> need to add another server? > > > Jo > > Some people resolved this issue by deleting the wmsplugin itself and sub-directory in JOSM working directory before its update (this probably to pick-up the correct version of the pre-configured wms servers file in the jar file). Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Checking if I understand correctly...
At 02:58 AM 5/10/2010, Steve Bennett wrote: >On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 8:15 PM, David Groom wrote: >> The particular issues I believe you have concerns with have also been >> discussed extensively on this list. You wont be surprised if I say that not >> everyone agrees with you interpretation. > >Oh? Which bit - and what's the consensus interpretation? > >> However the CT's are currently being revised, >> https://docs.google.com/View?id=dd9g3qjp_81272pvt54 and the revised >> version probably will give you less concern. > >Not really - the change from "you must be the copyright owner" to "you >must have permission from the copyright owner to relicense their work" >doesn't really change anything, I don't think? Either way, existing >CC-BY-SA content is inadmissible without explicit authorisation from >its owner. (In other words, existing CC-BY-SA licensing is worthless, >since you need explicit permission anyway.) > >But if I'm incorrect, please tell me. I think there are two issues here. A CC-BY-SA license *is* an explicit permission to you by the rights holder. So that is not a problem and we will revise the CTs to better communicate that in plain language. But what is a problem is that applying a CC-BY-SA license to highly factual information is very vague as to what you can actually do (or, more correctly, what you should not do) and is not recommended by the authors of the license. So you really need to go back to the actual rights holder and ask them to clarify what they personally/organisationally are happy with, or better still, use a more appropriate license. That is a major reason we want to move away from it ourselves. The other alternative is for us collectively to get a highly authoritative source to say that a CC-BY-SA license on data could reasonably be interpreted as giving permission to contribute to OSM. I'll find out where we are on that. Mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
but the point is hooking the two things together? On Oct 5, 2010, at 9:18 AM, Jochen Topf wrote: > On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 08:56:00AM -0600, SteveC wrote: >> The first thing I wanted to look at was this >> >> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/keys/FIXME >> >> and then go fix things near me. Maybe if I click on the map it could >> redirect to a nominatim search for that tag, if you can constrain the search >> to a bbox near where I click? > > You can use the OSM Inspector for that... > > http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=tagging&lon=-122.43938&lat=37.73945&zoom=12&overlays=fixmes_on_nodes,fixmes_on_ways > > Jochen > -- > Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 > > Steve stevecoast.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
> > I downloaded josm-latest.jar, started it, F12, download list, update > plugins, but nothing related to SPOT is available among my plugins. Do I > need to add another server? Jo ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multiple OSM instances
80n <80n80n gmail.com> writes: >It's inevitable that there will be at least one fork of OSM content if the >license is switched to ODbL + CT. Just to be clear: there is a big 'if' in the above assertion. I don't think it is inevitable that OSM will split into multiple projects, because I don't think it inevitable that ODbL+CT will be imposed in their current proposed form by the OSMF. What 80n wrote is correct, but it's not quite as bleak as it sounds. -- Ed Avis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multiple OSM instances
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 10:50 AM, 80n <80n...@gmail.com> wrote: > It's inevitable that there will be at least one fork of OSM content if the > license is switched to ODbL + CT. That's yet to be seen, unless you're saying that you personally will make it happen. > So the question I'd like to ask is, what things can be done to make such > projects play nicer and interoperate better when they do happen? Unsubscribing from osm-talk will go a long way to making people close to the project stop being angry with the forkers, if they don't interrupt our work with constant complaints couched in terms of "thought experiments" or "theoretical questions". > I'm not > just interested in technical solutions, but also organisational and > community based solutions. What guidelines should duplicate OSMs follow? It'll greatly depend on the individuals involved, but some of the forkers have lost a lot of respect of the OSM community by being generally disruptive, by making unsubstantiated claims, spreading FUD, and talking about forking nearly twice a week for several months. At that point it becomes difficult to work with such a person collaboratively. It's possible not all the forkers are like that, but certainly the loudest forkers on this list have created a situation of a difficult interpersonal relationship, which will detract from any attempt at a collabrorative environment. Once bitten, twice shy, as they say. > I'm particularly interested in how it could be made easier for contributors > to handle the situation. How will they know which OSM they should > contribute to? There is only one OSM project. Other projects shouldn't be using the OSM name. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multiple OSM instances
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > > 80n wrote: > >> I'm particularly interested in how it could be made easier for >> contributors to handle the situation. How will they know which OSM they >> should contribute to? >> > > I'd prefer if you chose the wording: "Which collaborative mapping > platform..." - because there can only be one OSM project. Yes, let's get the terminology right. That's the kind of thing I'm looking for. How do we make it clear to contributors and users? > > > Can they easily contribute to more than one instance? >> > > In cases where they upload new stuff (i.e. something like an .osc with only > self contained s in it) that could easily be sent to multiple > systems by an editor. But what if a new mapping platform pops up later and > would like to have the user's content but cannot get it from the existing > platforms? Maybe users should simply upload their stuff to a PD repository > from which everyone else can then fetch it; that would make sure that there > are no dead ends. (Eg if I today upload by stuff to an ODbL platform and a > CC-BY-SA platform but tomorrow a PD platform opens which I also want to > support - how will I do that technically?) How would a user know which platforms they are able to send contributions to? Is there some kind of contribution hierarchy with PD at the top and proprietary at the bottom? Should there be a registry somewhere? > > I'm also interested in what can be done to make it easier to combine >> content from multiple OSM instances. Suppose one OSM instance has better >> content for Australia, while another has better content for India. >> > > An, albeit small, first step could be to implement a map browser with > OpenLayers that allows you to set your own private set of tile sources for > various areas (e.g. use Google for the US, use CommonMap for Australia, use > OSM for everything else). > This is a very practical approach. Google uses content from Navteq and Tele Atlas, how do they handle the joins? Presumable those happen at country borders? > > Bye > Frederik > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 08:56:00AM -0600, SteveC wrote: > The first thing I wanted to look at was this > > http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/keys/FIXME > > and then go fix things near me. Maybe if I click on the map it could redirect > to a nominatim search for that tag, if you can constrain the search to a bbox > near where I click? You can use the OSM Inspector for that... http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=tagging&lon=-122.43938&lat=37.73945&zoom=12&overlays=fixmes_on_nodes,fixmes_on_ways Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multiple OSM instances
Hi, 80n wrote: I'm particularly interested in how it could be made easier for contributors to handle the situation. How will they know which OSM they should contribute to? I'd prefer if you chose the wording: "Which collaborative mapping platform..." - because there can only be one OSM project. Can they easily contribute to more than one instance? In cases where they upload new stuff (i.e. something like an .osc with only self contained s in it) that could easily be sent to multiple systems by an editor. But what if a new mapping platform pops up later and would like to have the user's content but cannot get it from the existing platforms? Maybe users should simply upload their stuff to a PD repository from which everyone else can then fetch it; that would make sure that there are no dead ends. (Eg if I today upload by stuff to an ODbL platform and a CC-BY-SA platform but tomorrow a PD platform opens which I also want to support - how will I do that technically?) I'm also interested in what can be done to make it easier to combine content from multiple OSM instances. Suppose one OSM instance has better content for Australia, while another has better content for India. An, albeit small, first step could be to implement a map browser with OpenLayers that allows you to set your own private set of tile sources for various areas (e.g. use Google for the US, use CommonMap for Australia, use OSM for everything else). Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
On 5 October 2010 15:51, Jeremy G wrote: > Hi, > > I'm the author of the blog post. Sorry Emilie if you were planning an > official announcement, I've posted right after reading the info on the OSM > Talk-fr, hope it's OK. > > Once again congratulations to every person involved in this agreement, it's > a great progress for OpenStreetMap in general :) > No worries :) It is always good to see progress in the right direction :) Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
On 05/10/2010 16:06, Jean-Francois (Jeff) Faudi wrote: And I just want to correct the spelling for the source tag : source=Cnes / Spot Image Sorry A old family story with the CNET (telecommunication)... -- FrViPofm ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 14:06, Jean-Francois (Jeff) Faudi wrote: > I am talking on behalf of Spot Image. At this stage, we are only making a > test over France. As soon as possible, we will try to evaluate the mutual > benefits for Spot Image and OpenStreetMap in order to foster an extended > collaboration. > > Here is the SPOtMaps page in English : > http://www.spotimage.com/web/en/1285-spotmaps.php > > And I just want to correct the spelling for the source tag : source=Cnes / > Spot Image Hi Jeff. I was wondering what the SPOT-5 coverage was over Iceland. It's not listed on that page, in the KML file or in the country list. But according to this: http://www.lmi.is/pages/fjarkonnun/spot-5-myndir-keyptar-2008-og-2009/ And: http://www.google.com/search?q=iceland+site:spotimage.com There's at least some coverage. But I assume it's really sparse or in low resolution and is thus is not listed on the main listing? Anyway, if you're looking for a country that you probably have minimal commercial gain anyway and that doesn't have any imagery already (except for Landsat) the mappers in Iceland would love to get access to SPOT-5 for tracing. Thanks for your time. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
Jochen this is level 17 awesome. The first thing I wanted to look at was this http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/keys/FIXME and then go fix things near me. Maybe if I click on the map it could redirect to a nominatim search for that tag, if you can constrain the search to a bbox near where I click? On Oct 5, 2010, at 7:37 AM, Jochen Topf wrote: > For the last months I have been working on a software called Taginfo that > brings together information about OSM tags from the OSM database, the wiki > and other places. Somewhat like Tagwatch, Tagstat, and OSMdoc, but more > ambitious. :-) > > I am happy to announce that the beast is now available at > >http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de > > There are still some bugs and lots of missing features, but its already > usable. Updates are currently done manually, but I will do automatic daily > updates soon. > > All the software to run this is Open Source so please go ahead, run your > own versions and send me patches. > > More details and background in my blog entry at: > >http://blog.jochentopf.com/2010-10-05-introducing-taginfo.html > > Bug reports and feature ideas welcome. > > Jochen > -- > Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > Steve stevecoast.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
> Many people in France have starting using the data to enhance the polygons > that were imported during the Corine Land Cover import. The precision of 2.5 > m doesn't allow too much precision in drawing roads and buildings. It is also very useful for coastline drawing, often better than yahoo imagery, even better where there isn't any ! Vlad. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
Hi, I'm the author of the blog post. Sorry Emilie if you were planning an official announcement, I've posted right after reading the info on the OSM Talk-fr, hope it's OK. Once again congratulations to every person involved in this agreement, it's a great progress for OpenStreetMap in general :) Jeremy 2010/10/5 Jean-Francois (Jeff) Faudi > Hi, > > I am talking on behalf of Spot Image. At this stage, we are only making a > test over France. As soon as possible, we will try to evaluate the mutual > benefits for Spot Image and OpenStreetMap in order to foster an extended > collaboration. > > Here is the SPOtMaps page in English : > http://www.spotimage.com/web/en/1285-spotmaps.php > > And I just want to correct the spelling for the source tag : source=Cnes / > Spot Image > > Jeff. > > -- > Jean-Francois FAUDI, Spot Image Labs > Web Site : http://www.spotimage.com | http://labs.spotimage.com/ > > > 2010/10/5 Vincent Pottier > >> On 05/10/2010 15:11, Pieren wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason > > wrote: >> >>> but it seems >>> that SPOT is an aggregate of differently licensed data. So what >>> applies to France doesn't for the rest of the world. >>> >>> But maybe someone else can correct me on that, I'm not sure. >>> >>> >>> >> SPOT is an imagery provider, so they can apply the licence they want on >> their production. They decided to create a special one for this experimental >> phase of 6 months. The special licence for OSM (in english) is here: >> http://www.youmapps.org/licenses/EULA-OSM-en.html >> >> SPOTmaps, the product (in french): >> http://www.spotimage.com/web/2214-spotmaps-tableau.php >> >> As Emilie said, it's 2.5m resolution + 15m accuracy for France, >> orthorecitified. It is normally sold 2€ per km2 but is free for France and >> only for OpenStreetMap for the next 6 months, renewable. After this period >> and depending on its success, geographic extensions will be evaluated by >> SPOT. >> >> Pieren >> >> So people mapping using the SPOT imagery are invited to add the source >> "CNET/SPOT image" on they data to help evaluating, to see the experience >> reconducted, and maybe extended to other countries. >> -- >> FrViPofm >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> >> > > > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Multiple OSM instances
It's inevitable that there will be at least one fork of OSM content if the license is switched to ODbL + CT. There are already other projects using the OSM software stack (CommonMap, USGS etc) but none that I know of that are yet using OSM's content. This will surely change if the license is switched. So the question I'd like to ask is, what things can be done to make such projects play nicer and interoperate better when they do happen? I'm not just interested in technical solutions, but also organisational and community based solutions. What guidelines should duplicate OSMs follow? I'm particularly interested in how it could be made easier for contributors to handle the situation. How will they know which OSM they should contribute to? Which data source is compatible with which OSM? Can they easily contribute to more than one instance? I'm also interested in what can be done to make it easier to combine content from multiple OSM instances. Suppose one OSM instance has better content for Australia, while another has better content for India. Some users may be able, licensewise, to combine the best of these. What things would make it easier and what would make it harder for that to be done? Are there any easy and simple steps that can be taken that could make the existence of multiple OSMs a whole lot less painful? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
Hi, I am talking on behalf of Spot Image. At this stage, we are only making a test over France. As soon as possible, we will try to evaluate the mutual benefits for Spot Image and OpenStreetMap in order to foster an extended collaboration. Here is the SPOtMaps page in English : http://www.spotimage.com/web/en/1285-spotmaps.php And I just want to correct the spelling for the source tag : source=Cnes / Spot Image Jeff. -- Jean-Francois FAUDI, Spot Image Labs Web Site : http://www.spotimage.com | http://labs.spotimage.com/ 2010/10/5 Vincent Pottier > On 05/10/2010 15:11, Pieren wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason > wrote: > >> but it seems >> that SPOT is an aggregate of differently licensed data. So what >> applies to France doesn't for the rest of the world. >> >> But maybe someone else can correct me on that, I'm not sure. >> >> >> > SPOT is an imagery provider, so they can apply the licence they want on > their production. They decided to create a special one for this experimental > phase of 6 months. The special licence for OSM (in english) is here: > http://www.youmapps.org/licenses/EULA-OSM-en.html > > SPOTmaps, the product (in french): > http://www.spotimage.com/web/2214-spotmaps-tableau.php > > As Emilie said, it's 2.5m resolution + 15m accuracy for France, > orthorecitified. It is normally sold 2€ per km2 but is free for France and > only for OpenStreetMap for the next 6 months, renewable. After this period > and depending on its success, geographic extensions will be evaluated by > SPOT. > > Pieren > > So people mapping using the SPOT imagery are invited to add the source > "CNET/SPOT image" on they data to help evaluating, to see the experience > reconducted, and maybe extended to other countries. > -- > FrViPofm > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 03:49:54PM +0200, Peter Körner wrote: > Am 05.10.2010 15:37, schrieb Jochen Topf: >> For the last months I have been working on a software called Taginfo that >> brings together information about OSM tags from the OSM database, the wiki >> and other places. Somewhat like Tagwatch, Tagstat, and OSMdoc, but more >> ambitious. :-) >> >> I am happy to announce that the beast is now available at >> >> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de > > I extended the Tag & Key templates used in the osm wiki to point back to > your great tool from the sidebar. Thanks > As said before I don't like the monospace font and I'm missing the > find-as-you-type function from osmdoc.org. I removed the monospace font on your suggestion. Try clearing your cache. If its still there, thats a bug. > Despite that it's a really great tool. Thank you very much! Thanks Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
Am 05.10.2010 15:37, schrieb Jochen Topf: For the last months I have been working on a software called Taginfo that brings together information about OSM tags from the OSM database, the wiki and other places. Somewhat like Tagwatch, Tagstat, and OSMdoc, but more ambitious. :-) I am happy to announce that the beast is now available at http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de I extended the Tag & Key templates used in the osm wiki to point back to your great tool from the sidebar. As said before I don't like the monospace font and I'm missing the find-as-you-type function from osmdoc.org. Despite that it's a really great tool. Thank you very much! Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Introducing Taginfo
For the last months I have been working on a software called Taginfo that brings together information about OSM tags from the OSM database, the wiki and other places. Somewhat like Tagwatch, Tagstat, and OSMdoc, but more ambitious. :-) I am happy to announce that the beast is now available at http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de There are still some bugs and lots of missing features, but its already usable. Updates are currently done manually, but I will do automatic daily updates soon. All the software to run this is Open Source so please go ahead, run your own versions and send me patches. More details and background in my blog entry at: http://blog.jochentopf.com/2010-10-05-introducing-taginfo.html Bug reports and feature ideas welcome. Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Checking if I understand correctly...
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Jukka Rahkonen wrote: > Ed Avis writes: > > > What I meant to say was: under these contributor terms, OSM is not > compatible > > with itself! Although the OSM project licenses its data under CC-BY-SA > > or under ODbL, it would not accept such licences from others. > > > > Whether this really matters, or is just an obscure point of principle, is > open > > to debate. But it's certainly the case. > > It is hard to believe that we want to build such a system but if that is > the case then it will matter once someone takes some OSM data and lets own > users to do updates and inserts. Isn't for example OpenAddresses such a > project? > Yes, the automatic right to re-incorporate changes/additions made in produced works is a major flaw in the whole proposal. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
On 05/10/2010 15:11, Pieren wrote: On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason mailto:ava...@gmail.com>> wrote: but it seems that SPOT is an aggregate of differently licensed data. So what applies to France doesn't for the rest of the world. But maybe someone else can correct me on that, I'm not sure. SPOT is an imagery provider, so they can apply the licence they want on their production. They decided to create a special one for this experimental phase of 6 months. The special licence for OSM (in english) is here: http://www.youmapps.org/licenses/EULA-OSM-en.html SPOTmaps, the product (in french): http://www.spotimage.com/web/2214-spotmaps-tableau.php As Emilie said, it's 2.5m resolution + 15m accuracy for France, orthorecitified. It is normally sold 2€ per km2 but is free for France and only for OpenStreetMap for the next 6 months, renewable. After this period and depending on its success, geographic extensions will be evaluated by SPOT. Pieren So people mapping using the SPOT imagery are invited to add the source "CNET/SPOT image" on they data to help evaluating, to see the experience reconducted, and maybe extended to other countries. -- FrViPofm ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > but it seems > that SPOT is an aggregate of differently licensed data. So what > applies to France doesn't for the rest of the world. > > But maybe someone else can correct me on that, I'm not sure. > > > SPOT is an imagery provider, so they can apply the licence they want on their production. They decided to create a special one for this experimental phase of 6 months. The special licence for OSM (in english) is here: http://www.youmapps.org/licenses/EULA-OSM-en.html SPOTmaps, the product (in french): http://www.spotimage.com/web/2214-spotmaps-tableau.php As Emilie said, it's 2.5m resolution + 15m accuracy for France, orthorecitified. It is normally sold 2€ per km2 but is free for France and only for OpenStreetMap for the next 6 months, renewable. After this period and depending on its success, geographic extensions will be evaluated by SPOT. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Checking if I understand correctly...
Ed Avis writes: > What I meant to say was: under these contributor terms, OSM is not compatible > with itself! Although the OSM project licenses its data under CC-BY-SA > or under ODbL, it would not accept such licences from others. > > Whether this really matters, or is just an obscure point of principle, is open > to debate. But it's certainly the case. It is hard to believe that we want to build such a system but if that is the case then it will matter once someone takes some OSM data and lets own users to do updates and inserts. Isn't for example OpenAddresses such a project? ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-talk] Driver dies in reservoir after following SatNav
Here's another of these stories now common of drivers blindly following their satnav, unfortunately this time, the driver drowned! http://www.reghardware.com/2010/10/05/satnav_error_man_drowns/ I looked up the place in Google Maps, and low and behold, all the roads pre-reservoir are still there ! Thanks TeleAtlas for not having checked your road network for the last 30 years (the reservoir was built in 1989!) So much for assured data quality in authoritative commercial datasets! You can compare Google and OSM's coverage here: http://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/?mt0=mapnik&mt1=googlehybrid&lon=-5.09448&lat=38.84867&zoom=14 -- Cheers Patrick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 12:05, maning sambale wrote: > I stumbled into a blog post regarding the french osm community was > given permission to trace from Spot imagery. Is this for France only > coverage? Probably yes. I asked the same question for Iceland once, but it seems that SPOT is an aggregate of differently licensed data. So what applies to France doesn't for the rest of the world. But maybe someone else can correct me on that, I'm not sure. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
On 5 October 2010 13:05, maning sambale wrote: > Dear all, > > I stumbled into a blog post regarding the french osm community was > given permission to trace from Spot imagery. Is this for France only > coverage? > > blog post: > > http://www.geographiques.org/carnet/2010/10/05/spot-images-met-a-disposition-de-la-communaute-openstreetmap-les-donnees-spotmaps/ > > google translate link: > > http://translate.google.com.ph/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=tl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geographiques.org%2Fcarnet%2F2010%2F10%2F05%2Fspot-images-met-a-disposition-de-la-communaute-openstreetmap-les-donnees-spotmaps%2F > > Hoping we can do this for the Philippines as well. > I am planning to officially translate the announcement today. The data is only available for a period of 6 months for France only . There is no plan as of now for other countries. Whether the deal is extended or not will depend on how much the data is used and its impact on the resulting map. Many people in France have starting using the data to enhance the polygons that were imported during the Corine Land Cover import. The precision of 2.5 m doesn't allow too much precision in drawing roads and buildings. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
Dear all, I stumbled into a blog post regarding the french osm community was given permission to trace from Spot imagery. Is this for France only coverage? blog post: http://www.geographiques.org/carnet/2010/10/05/spot-images-met-a-disposition-de-la-communaute-openstreetmap-les-donnees-spotmaps/ google translate link: http://translate.google.com.ph/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=tl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geographiques.org%2Fcarnet%2F2010%2F10%2F05%2Fspot-images-met-a-disposition-de-la-communaute-openstreetmap-les-donnees-spotmaps%2F Hoping we can do this for the Philippines as well. -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Bot amended relations today
Hi there, On Montag, 4. Oktober 2010, Dave F. wrote: > User werner2101 has been busy today amended relations: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/werner2101/edits First, all of the edits are done manually, not with a bot. All the edits are done one by one. I check every relation before editing it and hopefully add a usefull changeset comment. More about the methods of the changes below. > In a local case to me he's changed tags within a route relation from: > > tag k="route" v="canal" > tag k="type" v="route" > > to > > tag k="type" v="waterway" > tag k="waterway" v="canal" > > Which is incorrect as it removes the route tag & the canal way > already has the tag: > > >From time to time other users are not happy with my changes and they usually write me a mail. I think this happend maybe 5 times over the last year, then I try to explain why I've made the change. Somethimes the other user agreed with my changes sometimes not and I'm reverting the change. In the same time I've improved maybe 3000 relations. I guess it's impossible that all improvments are improvements for every other, too, but I at least think, that most of my changes are. > As he's used a bot to go worldwide, I thought I'd better flag it up. As stated above all edits are done manually. The edits are global as all over the world (the planet) there are improvable tags on relations. > I'm sure not all his edits are incorrect, but I think it would be > worth checking locally. The methods of my changes: The starting point is a list of rarely used realtion types [1] of all relations on the planet. It's a tab seperated listing of relations with relation ids, tags, user, changeset, version, ... (at the top of [1]). I load the list into oocalc. I've some macros in oocalc that allows me to: * load a relation into josm (with the remote pluggin) * browse the relation on OSM * view the history on OSM * get a statistic for a username. by selecting a cell in oocalc. This setup enables me to do lots of manual edits and checking several things before I make the edit. Most of the changes are simple typo corrections or missing type tag corrections. A relation without type tag and members with inner and outer role is most likely a multipolygon. Others are improving tagging: e.g. a relation with type=route route=rcn is most likely a bicycle route that should be tagged as type=route route=bicycle network=rcn. ... and so on. The change DaveF doesn't like is the change of the tags type=route route=canal into: type=waterway waterway=canal I thought this change is correct, as the waterway relations are usually used to describe the waterway, just like all the other waterway related relations in the planet [2]. There's also an ongoing proposal on the waterway relations to clean up all the waterway mess [3]. The tagging of the proposal is used a lot for newly created waterway relations by users careing about waterway related stuff. Regards Werner (werne2101) [1] http://www.h-renrew.de/h/osm/osmchecks/02_Relationstypen/planet.html [2] http://www.h- renrew.de/h/osm/osmchecks/02_Relationstypen/planet_waterways.html [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Waterway ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim (was ...MapQuest)
Shaun McDonald shaunmcdonald.me.uk> writes: >Yep, there is no polygon for the boundary of Surrey that I'm aware of, There are certainly bits and pieces, for example way 32900389. But most likely they don't form a single polygon. What is needed to make it work? -- Ed Avis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim (was ...MapQuest)
On 5 Oct 2010, at 08:43, Ed Avis wrote: > Shaun McDonald shaunmcdonald.me.uk> writes: > For example according to Nominatim Surrey covers most of London http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=559111 >>> >>> Is there a reason why Nominatim doesn't use the administrative county >>> boundaries? >> >> Do you have an example of one in the osm data that it doesn't use? > > Perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote. I thought you meant that Nominatim > when > searching for 'Surrey' will use the rough polygon for place=county rather than > the boundary of Surrey administrative county. Yep, there is no polygon for the boundary of Surrey that I'm aware of, thus the use of the generated polygon. Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim (was ...MapQuest)
On 05/10/10 08:43, Ed Avis wrote: Perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote. I thought you meant that Nominatim when searching for 'Surrey' will use the rough polygon for place=county rather than the boundary of Surrey administrative county. Are you saying the database contains two polygons for Surrey? One "rough" and one that is the correct boundary? /me looks Ah I see - what you mean is that it has derived a rough polygon based on some sort of proximity to a node marked as place=county. My answer to that would be to delete the node - now we have a polygon the node is irrelevant. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM and MapQuest [was Hurricane hits MapQuest]
Nic Roets wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 2:00 AM, Shaun McDonald > wrote: >> On 5 Oct 2010, at 00:38, Nic Roets wrote: >>> The biggest problem I experience when searching with Nominatim for a >>> street is that you need to guess the place name that *it* has chosen. >>> For example, Hyperion Drive falls in a suburb (johannesburg North, I >>> think). The suburb falls in a region and the region falls in a city. >>> And the city falls in a province. Some of that information is already >>> in OSM as administrative borders. >> >> Admin, town and city boundaries are in many ways hit and miss with >> nominatim, however that is generally through a lack of osm data. Or >> better said just having points, where it is difficult to estimate the >> size. For example according to Nominatim Surrey covers most of London >> http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=559111 (Which it >> doesn't really). By using Polygons for the boundaries in the osm data >> instead of simple points, it will be more likely to give a more accurate >> result. >> > > That's a nice visual presentation. I guess it's generated by Fortune's > algorithm like Brian mentioned on dev. > > The first problem with trying to get polygons for all places is that > surveying them can be quite labourious, if not impossible. > Polygons won't solve the whole problem. For example, I have an Orlando address, yet I'm in unincorporated Orange County, outside the city limits. Probably the only way is to find matches near the city center (node if present, else polygon centroid) and sort by distance, after somehow eliminating duplicates (streets split into multiple ways). A couple examples: Della Drive, Orlando, Florida: All the results come out as being in "Dr. Phillips, Edgewood, Orange County, 32819, Florida, United States of America". Dr. Phillips is correct (it's the neighborhood) but Edgewood is a city with a polygon about 6 miles to the east. Ruby Lake Road, Vineland, Florida: no results (despite Vineland having a polygon that Ruby Lake Road is inside), nor with any other nearby cities or unincorporated communities; only Ruby Lake Road, Orange County, Florida seems to work -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/OSM-and-MapQuest-was-Hurricane-hits-MapQuest-tp561p5602170.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Nominatim (was ...MapQuest)
Shaun McDonald shaunmcdonald.me.uk> writes: >>>For example according to Nominatim Surrey covers most of London >>>http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=559111 >> >>Is there a reason why Nominatim doesn't use the administrative county >>boundaries? > >Do you have an example of one in the osm data that it doesn't use? Perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote. I thought you meant that Nominatim when searching for 'Surrey' will use the rough polygon for place=county rather than the boundary of Surrey administrative county. -- Ed Avis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM and MapQuest [was Hurricane hits MapQuest]
On 5 Oct 2010, at 08:26, Ed Avis wrote: > Shaun McDonald shaunmcdonald.me.uk> writes: > >> For example according to Nominatim Surrey covers most of London >> http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=559111 > > Is there a reason why Nominatim doesn't use the administrative county > boundaries? > Do you have an example of one in the osm data that it doesn't use? Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM and MapQuest [was Hurricane hits MapQuest]
Shaun McDonald shaunmcdonald.me.uk> writes: >For example according to Nominatim Surrey covers most of London >http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=559111 Is there a reason why Nominatim doesn't use the administrative county boundaries? -- Ed Avis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM and MapQuest [was Hurricane hits MapQuest]
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 2:00 AM, Shaun McDonald wrote: > > On 5 Oct 2010, at 00:38, Nic Roets wrote: > >> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 12:46 AM, Ed Avis wrote: >>> So, is it possible for Mapquest to generate aggregate information on what >>> name >>> searches people are doing and how often they find the result they wanted? >>> The >>> latter is not something you can measure directly, but you can see which of >>> the >>> offered results the user clicks on, which gives a clue. >> >> The biggest problem I experience when searching with Nominatim for a >> street is that you need to guess the place name that *it* has chosen. >> For example, Hyperion Drive falls in a suburb (johannesburg North, I >> think). The suburb falls in a region and the region falls in a city. >> And the city falls in a province. Some of that information is already >> in OSM as administrative borders. >> >> But end users seldom know where the borders are, so they will just >> search for "hyperion, johannesburg" and not get an answer. (To get it, >> search for "hyperion, roodepoort") Or they will be too lazy to type >> the suburb. > > Admin, town and city boundaries are in many ways hit and miss with nominatim, > however that is generally through a lack of osm data. Or better said just > having points, where it is difficult to estimate the size. For example > according to Nominatim Surrey covers most of London > http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=559111 (Which it > doesn't really). By using Polygons for the boundaries in the osm data instead > of simple points, it will be more likely to give a more accurate result. > That's a nice visual presentation. I guess it's generated by Fortune's algorithm like Brian mentioned on dev. The first problem with trying to get polygons for all places is that surveying them can be quite labourious, if not impossible. The second problem is that people, especially tourists and foreign, don't speak like that. They often know only one placename, like Johannesburg http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=750446 IMHO, Gosmore handles the problem a little bit better: It first finds the placename and then it will look for occurrences of the street name, even if they are quite far from the place. > Another problem is that place names can be fuzzy, as one person will say > place x will cover a certain area, however another person will say it covers > a different area, yet officially that's wrong. > > Shaun > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
