Re: [OSM-talk] Oracle is changing Java's license how will it affect JOSM?

[Paweł Paprota]

You are mixing so many different topics and misconceptions that I think
you basically don't know what you're talking about.
Perhaps you should read up on what is Java first...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Java_implementations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpreted_language

etc.

Paweł


On Sun, Apr 22, 2018, at 22:06, john whelan wrote:
> JAVA started as a SUN product.  It is now an Oracle product.  I spent
> a number of years working with Oracle on license for their databases.
> A number of sales people's statements about their licensing were
> dubious and inconsistent so I'll admit I am slightly bias.> Having said that 
> if we look at the requirements then we'd like the
> ability to run on UNIX and Windows.  Apple are their own world and yes
> it can be run but Apple don't especially like you running it.> 
> We'd like to be able to run the software on corporate machines.  These
> days many companies follow the US government's lead and say JAVA is
> too much of a security risk to be allowed to install it.> We have a lot of 
> existing code and programmers who know JAVA.  We have
> a lot of existing JOSM users which means lots of tutorials and
> documentation.  Any changes to the interface will be expensive in
> people time.> Pure JAVA is interpreted, the translation for lay people is it 
> needs a
> more powerful computer to do the same work in the same time.> I have no 
> instant solutions but I do think sometimes we should try to
> think things through in advance.  Perhaps the biggest concern is a
> major security hole opens up and Oracle will not repair it.  JAVA is
> not known to be highly secure at the best of times.  If this happens
> what is the impact?> It can be controlled to some extent in Windows by 
> running in a
> separate user account but that too complicated for many of our users
> to configure.  Do we have any responsibility to our mappers to keep
> their machines safe?> Dunno which is why its worth raising the matter.
> 
> Cheerio John
> 
> On 22 April 2018 at 15:34, Jan Martinec  wrote:
>> End of Java _8_, not all Java. Java 9 is already out, this is just a
>> version upgrade. So far, I have used JOSM on Java 6, Java 7, Java 8
>> and Java 9 - this only means that ancient installations of JOSM will
>> only work with an older version of JOSM. (It's still possible to run
>> JOSM build 10526 on Java 7. Source: having done just that,
>> yesterday).>> 
>> No action required w/r/t JOSM, relax.
>> Cheers,
>> Jan "Piskvor" Martinec 
>> 
>> Dne ne 22. 4. 2018 21:05 uživatel john whelan 
>> napsal:>>> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
>>> It needs to be translated into English.  For example Long Term
>>> Support means no new versions per three years.>>> 
>>> " Basically, free Java 8 updates for commercial customers, such as
>>> game developers, will cease in January 2019. After that date
>>> commercial customers must have a licence to continue to receive the
>>> updates.>>> 
>>>  Free Java 8 updates for non-commercial uses, such as your home PC,
>>>  will continue until the end of 2020.>>> 
>>>  As of last September Oracle have moved to a LTS (Long Term Support)
>>>  model for Java with new LTS versions released every 3 years - the
>>>  current Java 8 was released Sept 2017 so December 2020 will be the
>>>  end of a three year LTS cycle.  ">>> Cheerio John
>>> 
>>> On 22 April 2018 at 14:40, Mateusz Konieczny 
>>> wrote:
 On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 14:26:13 -0400 john whelan
  wrote:

  > Someone who worked at Oracle has mentioned Oracle would like to
  > be out of JAVA by 2020 and that is the date for individual free
  > licenses to expire.

 Source?>>> 
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> _
> talk mailing list
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[Talk-us] Lincoln, NE South/East Beltway

[Albert Pundt]

I noticed someone had mapped the Lincoln South and East Beltway segments as
under construction. However, I could find no word of either segment going
to construction yet. The South appears to be planned for construction
sooner, but will smoothly tie into Route 2 until the East section is built.
Should I (or someone more local) just switch all the tags over to proposed?

—Albert
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Undiscussed mass-revert by user Nakaner-repair

[Jack Armstrong dan...@sprynet.com]

I fully support the efforts of Nakaner. There are 6-8 users creating a mess in the Denver, Colorado area.See here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?node=5538075288#map=19/39.71967/-104.98736-Original Message->From: EthnicFood IsGreat >Sent: Apr 22, 2018 11:28 PM>To: talk...@openstreetmap.org>Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Undiscussed mass-revert by user Nakaner-repair>>> As a member of the US community, I'm in favor of reverting the bad >> edits, even if it removes some good contributions.>> Mark - Message: 1>> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 13:27:14 + (UTC)>> From: Mikel Maron >> To: Michael Reichert ,  Talk-us>> 	>> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Undiscussed mass-revert by user Nakaner-repair>> Message-ID: <232049907.3007698.1524317234...@mail.yahoo.com>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"   blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white !important; } Nakaner>> This is an epic effort and appreciated.>> But there are two things that need to be cleared up.>>>   The choice was to either accept that OSM>> is overrun by a army of sockpuppets who ignore us at all or to make the>> time/money they invest into editing a waste of time/money by reverting their edits even if it removes good contributions. That's sad but what is the alternative? It's not a binary choice. The alternative is to establish good dialogue with the communities you are monitoring (the US on this case), and make sure there is awareness and buy in to your proposed action. I don't think that would be difficult or time consuming but does take consideration of other mappers in OSM who you don't regularly communicate with.>>>   There is no formal policy yet but that doesn't mean that they can do what they want to do. If it is against the interests of the community, it's against the existing unwritten rules.>> There is no such thing that gives anyone the right for large scale vigilante actions. There is enough justification to potentially take action (after discussion and with proper communication) -- sock puppets for one -- that you don't need to invoke organized editing.   If and when we do have a policy, we in the osmf will also need to develop clear guidance on how it is communicated and implemented. Mikel On Friday, April 20, 2018, 8:22 PM, Michael Reichert  wrote: Hi, Am 20.04.2018 um 17:13 schrieb Ian Dees:>>> I noticed that user Nakaner-repair just reverted 1000+ changesets>>> throughout the United States without any discussion in the local community.>>> Nakaner-repair points to a thread in the German forum [0] that seems to>>> indicate that they think these edits were made by paid mappers. Having not>>> heard from those suspected paid mappers, they went ahead and reverted>>> without discussion from the local community.>> TL;DR A group of mappers (presumeably from UTC+5) started adding>> highway=service and doing wrong quality assurance on roads in Europe and>> the U.S. in mid/end of March. British and later German mappers found>> these strange edits last week, some German searched for more accounts,>> SomeoneElse and myself wrote changeset comments and SomeoneElse (DWG)>> blocked many on them. Unfortunately, the 0-hour user blocks are not as useful as they are>> usually (and I expected them to be). They have been ignored and they>> continued editing or created sockpuppets. Longer blocks were ignored and>> they continued editing after the block. Changeset comments were not>> answered or the response did not answer the question. Since this week, they don't do any QA on roads any more and only add>> highway=service in the U.S. They create new accounts if their old>> accounts are blocked. This pattern now repeats day by day and the last>> resort was to revert their work because that causes financial damage (I>> hope they get paid). Please see some inline comments/responses on Ian's questions below. ->> The full story: On 2018-03-29 Will Phillips writes to the Talk-gb mailing list that he>> observed "a series of edits with users removing or changing access and>> oneway tags". He describes the quality of these edits as "very poor". At>> that time "none of them has yet responded to changeset comments".>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2018-March/021259.html SomeoneElse suggests him to write an email to d...@osmfoundation.org>> (the DWG).>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2018-March/021260.html I am not subscribed to Talk-gb and did not notice it at that time. On 2018-04-09 tux67 creates a new thread on the German forum because he>> found two users (sri_harsha and Premsakhare) editing roads globally>> without local knowledge. He asks other 

Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] OSM UK Manchester mapping party (Joy Diversion) and AGM

[Rob Nickerson]

Oh and a reminder to consider a ticket split to save on rail travel. For
Coventry to Manchester, splitting at Stafford saved me a few quid. Of all
the website I like this one:

https://new.trainsplit.com/

Cheers,

*Rob*

On 22 April 2018 at 23:26, Rob Nickerson  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We figured our way through a joint event sign up so have now sent all the
> details out for the Saturday 19 May event. It also now has a name: Joy
> Diversion!
>
> In case you don't receive the email newsletter, please see:
>
> https://mailchi.mp/d3c26a7908fc/joy-diversion-agm-sign-up
>
> Sign up to the AGM is via EventBrite, whilst the follow on mapping party
> is via Meetup as this was Open Data Manchester's (ODM) preference. I'm keen
> to get feedback on Meetup - ODM like it as they say it helps to get more
> attendees.
>
> Hope to see many of you in Manchester.
>
> *Rob*
>
> p.s. both sign-ups are optional but, as those that have organised events
> will know, are really helpful for us to track attendance and improve
> planning.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK Manchester mapping party (Joy Diversion) and AGM

[Rob Nickerson]

Oh and a reminder to consider a ticket split to save on rail travel. For
Coventry to Manchester, splitting at Stafford saved me a few quid. Of all
the website I like this one:

https://new.trainsplit.com/

Cheers,

*Rob*

On 22 April 2018 at 23:26, Rob Nickerson  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We figured our way through a joint event sign up so have now sent all the
> details out for the Saturday 19 May event. It also now has a name: Joy
> Diversion!
>
> In case you don't receive the email newsletter, please see:
>
> https://mailchi.mp/d3c26a7908fc/joy-diversion-agm-sign-up
>
> Sign up to the AGM is via EventBrite, whilst the follow on mapping party
> is via Meetup as this was Open Data Manchester's (ODM) preference. I'm keen
> to get feedback on Meetup - ODM like it as they say it helps to get more
> attendees.
>
> Hope to see many of you in Manchester.
>
> *Rob*
>
> p.s. both sign-ups are optional but, as those that have organised events
> will know, are really helpful for us to track attendance and improve
> planning.
>
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Re: [Talk-de] Flächen/Wege // Trolling in changesets

[Christian Müller]

> Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. April 2018 um 08:20 Uhr
> Von: mmd 
> An: talk-de@openstreetmap.org
> Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] Flächen/Wege // Trolling in changesets
>
> Ihr müsst einfach mal schauen, welche Datenmengen dahinter stecken.
> Momentan schleppen wir 4,4 Milliarden Nodes mit uns herum, davon 3,8
> Milliarden Nodes, die nur in irgendwelchen Ways vorkommen, [..]

Bis auf die Verweise und evtl. irgendwelche Metadaten (die aber für
attic + history Zwecke immer interessant bleiben) sehe ich nicht,
wie durch diese Verlagerung irgendetwas eingespart werden soll.

Du sprichst hier nur von einer lat/lon-Information, aber so einfach
ist das nicht.  Ein node-Objekt kann auch eine Historie mit mehreren
Revisionen haben, die u.U. für Mapper aber auch Anwender interessant
sein kann.

Außerdem erfüllt das node-Objekt in hohem Maß den Bedarf, es zu editieren,
es in den Knotenlisten der Wege neu einzuordnen, zu verschieben oder eben
von einem weiteren Weg (Kreuzung oder Straße über Straße (elevated high-
way)) referenziert zu werden.  Du schreibst, dass dieser Aspekt durch
ein Hybrid-Modell erhalten bliebe.  De facto bedeutet es für jeden Edit-
vorgang, dass Koordinaten ihren Status wechseln können (müssen), d.h.
von way-gebundener Koordinate zu eigenständigem Node wahlweise promo-
vier- oder eben herabstufbar sein müssen.


> Jedes Tool muss sich momentan einen riesigen Cache aufbauen, der zu der
> Node Id die entsprechenden Koordinaten zurück liefert, damit überhaupt
> klar ist, wie die Geometrie eines Ways aussieht.

Das ist für den vorwiegenden Anwendungsfall, einen relativ kleinen Daten-
ausschnitt zu laden, etwas zu verändern und es wieder hochzuladen häufig
nicht relevant, macht sich aber evtl. als Skaleneffekt bemerkbar, wenn
etwa der gesamte Planet verschnitten werden soll.

Warum versucht man nicht, die Vorteile, die sich durch diese Umverlagerung
ergeben können, durch eine Art Vorverarbeitung der Daten zu nutzen, die sich
dann nur damit beschäftigt, die Nodes je nach ihrer Verwendung in das Modell
des neuartigen way-Typs einzuordnen, bzw. ident zu belassen?

Es hört sich so an, als wenn so ein Hybrid auch mit den laufend verfügbaren
Changesets aktuell gehalten werden kann, was die Änderungsmenge nach einem
initialen Import minimiert.

Auf diese nebenläufige DB, die alle Änderungen im Abo bezieht, diese aber
wegen des geänderten Datenmodells erst nach Transformation/Vorverarbeitung
übernimmt, kann dann lesend zugegriffen werden (ob von Dumping- oder Edit-
Tools), womit sich parallel bequem Tools weiterentwickeln ließen, die dann
alternativ das hybride Modell verarbeiten.

Der (zu entwickelnde..) Daten-Trafo wäre Dreh-/Angel- und Einstiegspunkt.
Wenn im Trafo alle ways, die von einem Changeset geändert wurden, so um-
gerechnet werden können, dass kein Zugriff auf die Ziel-DB erfolgt, dann
darf die Wandlung Node->Koordinate eine Einbahnstraße sein. Das heißt
ein Mapping von Koordinate zu früherer Node-Id wäre dann für die Änder-
barkeit der ways in der Ziel-DB verzichtbar.

Dennoch, während zu Nodes promovierte Koordinaten durch diesen Trafo ihre
History dann einfach von A nach B kopieren könnten, wenn sie in B vorher
nur Koordinate waren, bedeutet das für einen späteren Live-Betrieb ohne A,
dass eine History (und Metadaten) für Nodes nicht mehr sinnvoll beibehalten
werden kann - es sei denn diese wird bei einer Abstufung mit in (alle!)
ways geschrieben.  Die zu behandelnden Edit-Fälle sind zahlreich, man
denke an das Verbinden und Trennen von gemeinsamen Wegknoten.

Um Erfahrungen zu sammeln, wäre das aber ein möglicher Pfad, der sich
gehen lässt, ohne den derzeitigen Live-Betrieb zu beeinträchtigen, imho.


Gruß

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[Talk-GB] OSM UK Manchester mapping party (Joy Diversion) and AGM

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

We figured our way through a joint event sign up so have now sent all the
details out for the Saturday 19 May event. It also now has a name: Joy
Diversion!

In case you don't receive the email newsletter, please see:

https://mailchi.mp/d3c26a7908fc/joy-diversion-agm-sign-up

Sign up to the AGM is via EventBrite, whilst the follow on mapping party is
via Meetup as this was Open Data Manchester's (ODM) preference. I'm keen to
get feedback on Meetup - ODM like it as they say it helps to get more
attendees.

Hope to see many of you in Manchester.

*Rob*

p.s. both sign-ups are optional but, as those that have organised events
will know, are really helpful for us to track attendance and improve
planning.
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] OSM UK Manchester mapping party (Joy Diversion) and AGM

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

We figured our way through a joint event sign up so have now sent all the
details out for the Saturday 19 May event. It also now has a name: Joy
Diversion!

In case you don't receive the email newsletter, please see:

https://mailchi.mp/d3c26a7908fc/joy-diversion-agm-sign-up

Sign up to the AGM is via EventBrite, whilst the follow on mapping party is
via Meetup as this was Open Data Manchester's (ODM) preference. I'm keen to
get feedback on Meetup - ODM like it as they say it helps to get more
attendees.

Hope to see many of you in Manchester.

*Rob*

p.s. both sign-ups are optional but, as those that have organised events
will know, are really helpful for us to track attendance and improve
planning.
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[OSM-ja] 投票形式について(高速道路の定義について)

[ribbon]

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 07:10:39AM +0900, ribbon wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 07:03:27AM +0900, tomoya muramoto wrote:
> > とりあえず誰でも編集できる共有ファイルを作成し、主要(?)項目をコピペしました。
> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HFI2g6bDglVyOD0rhUJSdXJ3ac23E73D-4VXxPoT3hY/edit?usp=sharing
> > 
> > 議論内容は入れておりませんので、
> > 必要に応じて追記願います。
> 
> ありがとうございます。みやすくなりました。

上記のページにある、投票結果についてです。

提案1 の下に 提案1-1と提案1-2 がありますね(提案3も同様)。

表を見ると、提案1 に○している人がいるのですが、提案1-1は○でも提案1-2が×
になっています。
しかし、提案1 に○をすると言うことは、提案1-1,1-2共に○という意味に読めますが、
この表だとそうなっていません。全体が○なのに個別が×というのは変だと思います。

提案1 という全体に対して○×付けるのをやめるか、
提案1-1,1-2を独立させた方がよいのではないでしょうか。

ribbon

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] OSM sur France 3 Occitanie (en occitan)

[Christian Rogel]

> Le 22 avr. 2018 à 14:56, Christian Quest  a écrit :
> 
> C'est ici, premier sujet: 
> https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/occitanie/emissions/jt-local-1920-edicion-occitana
>  
> 

C’est une action municipale pour cartographier sur OSM les rues qui ont reçu un 
nom ancien (parfois très différent) ou récent  en occitan.
Elle reçoit l’appui technique d’une association « Lo Congrès permanent de la 
lengua occitana » qui est aidée (65 000 €) par les Régions Nouvelle-Aquitaine 
et Occitanie.
Là où les choses sont moins simples, c’est qu’elle met en ligne Top’oc avec une 
cartographie sur Google et 4 223 toponymes occitans.

L’Institut d’estudis occitans (créé en 1946) qui maintient depuis longtemps sa 
propre base, Luòcs, a créé un site dédié à la cartographie avec OSM, Toponimia 
occitana ,   et utilise l’uMap de Framasoft pour montrer 
les toponymes sur un fond OSM. 


Sa stratégie est de former des bénévoles de son réseau pour qu’ils maîtrisent 
OSM et cartographient bien au delà des toponymes administratifs et des noms de 
lieux-dits. Voir cette page : http://bdtopoc.org/viewtopic.php?t=12
En 2017, ils sont pris en contact avec moi et avec le groupe OSM e brezhoneg et 
ont mis en place leurs outils avec une grande rapidité.

Cependant, comme il n’y a, selon TagInfo  que 6 200 name:oc (inclus le Val 
d’Aran et le Piémont italien) dans OSM et que l’IEO a entré dans sa base 10 020 
noms de commune, il reste beaucoup de saisie à faire. 

Le SotM FR de Pessac sera l’occasion d’échanger avec ces ces nouveaux acteurs 
de l’écosystème OSM.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Oracle is changing Java's license how will it affect JOSM?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 22. Apr 2018, at 21:34, Jan Martinec  wrote:
> 
> End of Java _8_, not all Java. Java 9 is already out, this is just a version 
> upgrade.


+1, also jdk10 is already out and jdk11 expected in September this year, so by 
2020 java8 will be quite old.

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-cz] Data ze ZÚ

[Jan Macura]

 Ahoj!

2018-04-22 14:39 GMT+02:00 Honza Cibulka :

> jaké datové sady Zeměměřického úřadu [2] by pro tuzemské OSM byly
> nejpřínosnější? Proč?
>

2018-04-22 19:14 GMT+02:00 Ha Noj :

> 2a) sekundárně nějaký výškopis lepší než SRTM,
>

Dovolím si to upřesnit. Výškopis pro OSM vůbec přínosný není, protože OSM
(téměř) data o výšce nesbírá. Tvůj (Honzo) závěr, že DMR 5G by bylo ideální
začlenit do OSM může znít hezky třeba pro někoho, kdo neví, co zkratka OSM
znamená, jinak je ale nereálný.
Výškopis, minimálně v podobě vrstevnic, je na druhou stranu přínosný pro
prakticky každého, kdo chce OSM data vzít, s nějakým tím výškopisem je
zkombinovat a udělat z toho použitelnou mapu.

Obecně k té otázce: souhlasím, že nějaký masivní import na území ČR už by
nadělal víc škody, než užitku. Každé začlenění cizích dat je teď potřeba
kontrolovat de facto prvek po prvku, jestli nevznikají duplicity, jestli
prostorově odpovídá okolním prvkům, atd. Proto pro OSM nejpřínosnější by
opravdu bylo to aktuální ortofoto.

Samozřejmě by záleželo na tom, jestli by tím otevřením taky ZÚ změnil
způsob, jakým data poskytuje. Kdyby rozdělil ZABAGED na jednotlivé jevy a
šlo vytáhnout třeba (příklad) boží muka, mosty, věže, skály, ... tak to by
mohlo být zajímavé pro podobný poloautomatický import, jakým se teď česká
komunita OSM snaží řešit poštovní schránky. A poznámka: některé takhle
oddělené jevy by byly zajímavé i pro import do Wikidat.

H.

P.S. Jestli hledáš někoho, kdo po bezplatném laserscannu skočí jako slepice
po flusu, tak to jsou orientační běžci. Víc info klidně dodám off-list ;-)
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Re: [Talk-it] [ItalyFuelStations] revisione pre-import

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 22. Apr 2018, at 11:13, Aury88  wrote:
> 
> io manterrei l'attuale value independent in quanto internazionalmente
> utilizzato e riconosciuto per le attività indipendenti dal brand.



io sono per togliere “independent” dalla chiave brand se non è un brand, e 
sostituirlo con un tag a parte.



> ...a mio
> avviso mettere brand="pompe bianche" equivale a mappare i ristoranti in
> italia con il tag amenity=ristorante invece che amenity=restaurant...


non è paragonabile, perché brand è un campo libero come name mentre amenity non 
è un campo libero, richiede un valore formale (in inglese).

Ciao, Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] [ItalyFuelStations] revisione pre-import

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 21. Apr 2018, at 07:56, Federico Cortese  wrote:
> 
> operator=Pompe Bianche, bisognerebbe comunque decidere per
> una delle due.


se “Pompe Bianche” è una scritta che si trova, userei brand, se è una 
struttura/ditta/rete etc. potrebbe essere taggato in operator, ma se è un 
termine generico e non trova riscontro diretto (insegna), non lo metterei in 
operator o brand o name. 
Sarebbe come mettere “name=no_name” per dire qualcosa non ha nome.

Ciao,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Oracle is changing Java's license how will it affect JOSM?

[john whelan]

I think Fredrick's comments have merit.  We know a lot about what works so
writing code to rewrite it if need be would not be too great an effort.

Cheerio John

On 22 April 2018 at 16:06, john whelan  wrote:

> JAVA started as a SUN product.  It is now an Oracle product.  I spent a
> number of years working with Oracle on license for their databases.  A
> number of sales people's statements about their licensing were dubious and
> inconsistent so I'll admit I am slightly bias.
>
> Having said that if we look at the requirements then we'd like the ability
> to run on UNIX and Windows.  Apple are their own world and yes it can be
> run but Apple don't especially like you running it.
>
> We'd like to be able to run the software on corporate machines.  These
> days many companies follow the US government's lead and say JAVA is too
> much of a security risk to be allowed to install it.
>
> We have a lot of existing code and programmers who know JAVA.  We have a
> lot of existing JOSM users which means lots of tutorials and
> documentation.  Any changes to the interface will be expensive in people
> time.
>
> Pure JAVA is interpreted, the translation for lay people is it needs a
> more powerful computer to do the same work in the same time.
>
> I have no instant solutions but I do think sometimes we should try to
> think things through in advance.  Perhaps the biggest concern is a major
> security hole opens up and Oracle will not repair it.  JAVA is not known to
> be highly secure at the best of times.  If this happens what is the impact?
>
> It can be controlled to some extent in Windows by running in a separate
> user account but that too complicated for many of our users to configure.
> Do we have any responsibility to our mappers to keep their machines safe?
>
> Dunno which is why its worth raising the matter.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 22 April 2018 at 15:34, Jan Martinec  wrote:
>
>> End of Java _8_, not all Java. Java 9 is already out, this is just a
>> version upgrade. So far, I have used JOSM on Java 6, Java 7, Java 8 and
>> Java 9 - this only means that ancient installations of JOSM will only work
>> with an older version of JOSM. (It's still possible to run JOSM build 10526
>> on Java 7. Source: having done just that, yesterday).
>>
>> No action required w/r/t JOSM, relax.
>> Cheers,
>> Jan "Piskvor" Martinec
>>
>> Dne ne 22. 4. 2018 21:05 uživatel john whelan 
>> napsal:
>>
>>> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
>>>
>>> It needs to be translated into English.  For example Long Term Support
>>> means no new versions per three years.
>>>
>>> " Basically, free Java 8 updates for commercial customers, such as game
>>> developers, will cease in January 2019. After that date commercial
>>> customers must have a licence to continue to receive the updates.
>>>
>>> Free Java 8 updates for non-commercial uses, such as your home PC, will
>>> continue until the end of 2020.
>>>
>>> As of last September Oracle have moved to a LTS (Long Term Support)
>>> model for Java with new LTS versions released every 3 years - the current
>>> Java 8 was released Sept 2017 so December 2020 will be the end of a three
>>> year LTS cycle. "
>>>
>>> Cheerio John
>>>
>>> On 22 April 2018 at 14:40, Mateusz Konieczny 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 14:26:13 -0400
 john whelan  wrote:

 > Someone who worked at Oracle has mentioned Oracle would like to be
 > out of JAVA by 2020 and that is the date for individual free licenses
 > to expire.

 Source?

>>>
>>> ___
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>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Oracle is changing Java's license how will it affect JOSM?

[john whelan]

JAVA started as a SUN product.  It is now an Oracle product.  I spent a
number of years working with Oracle on license for their databases.  A
number of sales people's statements about their licensing were dubious and
inconsistent so I'll admit I am slightly bias.

Having said that if we look at the requirements then we'd like the ability
to run on UNIX and Windows.  Apple are their own world and yes it can be
run but Apple don't especially like you running it.

We'd like to be able to run the software on corporate machines.  These days
many companies follow the US government's lead and say JAVA is too much of
a security risk to be allowed to install it.

We have a lot of existing code and programmers who know JAVA.  We have a
lot of existing JOSM users which means lots of tutorials and
documentation.  Any changes to the interface will be expensive in people
time.

Pure JAVA is interpreted, the translation for lay people is it needs a more
powerful computer to do the same work in the same time.

I have no instant solutions but I do think sometimes we should try to think
things through in advance.  Perhaps the biggest concern is a major security
hole opens up and Oracle will not repair it.  JAVA is not known to be
highly secure at the best of times.  If this happens what is the impact?

It can be controlled to some extent in Windows by running in a separate
user account but that too complicated for many of our users to configure.
Do we have any responsibility to our mappers to keep their machines safe?

Dunno which is why its worth raising the matter.

Cheerio John

On 22 April 2018 at 15:34, Jan Martinec  wrote:

> End of Java _8_, not all Java. Java 9 is already out, this is just a
> version upgrade. So far, I have used JOSM on Java 6, Java 7, Java 8 and
> Java 9 - this only means that ancient installations of JOSM will only work
> with an older version of JOSM. (It's still possible to run JOSM build 10526
> on Java 7. Source: having done just that, yesterday).
>
> No action required w/r/t JOSM, relax.
> Cheers,
> Jan "Piskvor" Martinec
>
> Dne ne 22. 4. 2018 21:05 uživatel john whelan 
> napsal:
>
>> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
>>
>> It needs to be translated into English.  For example Long Term Support
>> means no new versions per three years.
>>
>> " Basically, free Java 8 updates for commercial customers, such as game
>> developers, will cease in January 2019. After that date commercial
>> customers must have a licence to continue to receive the updates.
>>
>> Free Java 8 updates for non-commercial uses, such as your home PC, will
>> continue until the end of 2020.
>>
>> As of last September Oracle have moved to a LTS (Long Term Support) model
>> for Java with new LTS versions released every 3 years - the current Java 8
>> was released Sept 2017 so December 2020 will be the end of a three year LTS
>> cycle. "
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On 22 April 2018 at 14:40, Mateusz Konieczny 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 14:26:13 -0400
>>> john whelan  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Someone who worked at Oracle has mentioned Oracle would like to be
>>> > out of JAVA by 2020 and that is the date for individual free licenses
>>> > to expire.
>>>
>>> Source?
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-cz] Export GPX z Garmina

[Lukáš Gebauer]

Dne 22.4.2018 v 12:51 Petr Schönmann napsal(a):
Když už jsme u toho exportu. Garmin si ukládá pro mě nepochopitelně 
nějak trasy. Algoritmu jsem nepřišel na kloub ( Někdy ukládá po 3000 
pointech, někdy tam je i vyšší číslo). Nešlo by docílit chování 1x gpx 
/ den ?


Muj eTrex30 i Oregon600 umoznuje nastavit tzv. denni archivaci. Tedy ze 
kazdy den vezme tu stopu, a presune ji do slozky \garmin\gpx\archiv


Takze tam mam krasne GPX jednotlive na kazdy den. Umi to i jine 
parametry archivace stop.




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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Import station essence

[deuzeffe]

Bonsoir,

Ça donne des trucs bizarres, comme :
tags_create 
fuel:e10DELETE TAG aechohve0Eire4ooyeyaey1gieme0xoo
fuel:e85DELETE TAG aechohve0Eire4ooyeyaey1gieme0xoo
fuel:lpgDELETE TAG aechohve0Eire4ooyeyaey1gieme0xoo

Alors qu'il n'y a rien à effacer comme tag concernant ces 3 items, cf 
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/error/17295690893


HTH
--
deuzeffe

> Bien ! C'est cause des doubles comptes que ça me semblait cohérent.
> Je corrige.

> Voilà ce qui va être proposé à la modification,
>   10 
>  101 
>  111 
>  203 
>  466 
>  756 


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Re: [OSM-talk] Oracle is changing Java's license how will it affect JOSM?

[Jan Martinec]

End of Java _8_, not all Java. Java 9 is already out, this is just a
version upgrade. So far, I have used JOSM on Java 6, Java 7, Java 8 and
Java 9 - this only means that ancient installations of JOSM will only work
with an older version of JOSM. (It's still possible to run JOSM build 10526
on Java 7. Source: having done just that, yesterday).

No action required w/r/t JOSM, relax.
Cheers,
Jan "Piskvor" Martinec

Dne ne 22. 4. 2018 21:05 uživatel john whelan 
napsal:

> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
>
> It needs to be translated into English.  For example Long Term Support
> means no new versions per three years.
>
> " Basically, free Java 8 updates for commercial customers, such as game
> developers, will cease in January 2019. After that date commercial
> customers must have a licence to continue to receive the updates.
>
> Free Java 8 updates for non-commercial uses, such as your home PC, will
> continue until the end of 2020.
>
> As of last September Oracle have moved to a LTS (Long Term Support) model
> for Java with new LTS versions released every 3 years - the current Java 8
> was released Sept 2017 so December 2020 will be the end of a three year LTS
> cycle. "
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 22 April 2018 at 14:40, Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 14:26:13 -0400
>> john whelan  wrote:
>>
>> > Someone who worked at Oracle has mentioned Oracle would like to be
>> > out of JAVA by 2020 and that is the date for individual free licenses
>> > to expire.
>>
>> Source?
>>
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
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Re: [Talk-de] Nutzung des "lit"-Tags in Deutschland

[Michael Kugelmann]

Am 22.04.2018 um 19:36 schrieb chris66:

In Belgien hat man gerne die Autobahn beleuchtet:
https://www.hna.de/welt/belgien-beleuchtet-autobahnen-kuenftig-auch-tagsueber-zr-8744765.html 


Die haben ja auch genügend günstigen Atom-Strom ;-)
Ich dachte Belgien will die Beleuchtung der Autobahnen aus Spar-Gründen 
abschaffen? OK, ich glaube die Info ist schon ein paar Jahre her. Haben 
die sich "wieder gedreht"?


Grüße,
Michael.


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Re: [Talk-us] Undiscussed mass-revert by user Nakaner-repair

[EthnicFood IsGreat]

As a member of the US community, I'm in favor of reverting the bad 
edits, even if it removes some good contributions.

Mark

-

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 13:27:14 + (UTC)
From: Mikel Maron 
To: Michael Reichert ,  Talk-us

Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Undiscussed mass-revert by user Nakaner-repair
Message-ID: <232049907.3007698.1524317234...@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

  blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px 
#715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white 
!important; } Nakaner
This is an epic effort and appreciated.
But there are two things that need to be cleared up.

  The choice was to either accept that OSM

is overrun by a army of sockpuppets who ignore us at all or to make the
time/money they invest into editing a waste of time/money by reverting their 
edits even if it removes good contributions. That's sad but what is the 
alternative?

It's not a binary choice. The alternative is to establish good dialogue with 
the communities you are monitoring (the US on this case), and make sure there 
is awareness and buy in to your proposed action. I don't think that would be 
difficult or time consuming but does take consideration of other mappers in OSM 
who you don't regularly communicate with.

  There is no formal policy yet but that doesn't mean that they can do what 
they want to do. If it is against the interests of the community, it's against 
the existing unwritten rules.

There is no such thing that gives anyone the right for large scale vigilante 
actions. There is enough justification to potentially take action (after 
discussion and with proper communication) -- sock puppets for one -- that you 
don't need to invoke organized editing.   If and when we do have a policy, we 
in the osmf will also need to develop clear guidance on how it is communicated 
and implemented.

Mikel

On Friday, April 20, 2018, 8:22 PM, Michael Reichert  
wrote:

Hi,

Am 20.04.2018 um 17:13 schrieb Ian Dees:

I noticed that user Nakaner-repair just reverted 1000+ changesets
throughout the United States without any discussion in the local community.
Nakaner-repair points to a thread in the German forum [0] that seems to
indicate that they think these edits were made by paid mappers. Having not
heard from those suspected paid mappers, they went ahead and reverted
without discussion from the local community.

TL;DR A group of mappers (presumeably from UTC+5) started adding
highway=service and doing wrong quality assurance on roads in Europe and
the U.S. in mid/end of March. British and later German mappers found
these strange edits last week, some German searched for more accounts,
SomeoneElse and myself wrote changeset comments and SomeoneElse (DWG)
blocked many on them.

Unfortunately, the 0-hour user blocks are not as useful as they are
usually (and I expected them to be). They have been ignored and they
continued editing or created sockpuppets. Longer blocks were ignored and
they continued editing after the block. Changeset comments were not
answered or the response did not answer the question.

Since this week, they don't do any QA on roads any more and only add
highway=service in the U.S. They create new accounts if their old
accounts are blocked. This pattern now repeats day by day and the last
resort was to revert their work because that causes financial damage (I
hope they get paid).

Please see some inline comments/responses on Ian's questions below.

-
The full story:

On 2018-03-29 Will Phillips writes to the Talk-gb mailing list that he
observed "a series of edits with users removing or changing access and
oneway tags". He describes the quality of these edits as "very poor". At
that time "none of them has yet responded to changeset comments".
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2018-March/021259.html

SomeoneElse suggests him to write an email to d...@osmfoundation.org
(the DWG).
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2018-March/021260.html

I am not subscribed to Talk-gb and did not notice it at that time.

On 2018-04-09 tux67 creates a new thread on the German forum because he
found two users (sri_harsha and Premsakhare) editing roads globally
without local knowledge. He asks other mappers to review their edits.
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=693849#p693849
(contains changeset links)

Premsakhare had received multiple (!) user blocks at that time. The
oldes block was created after the discussion on Talk-gb.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/1831
He had been blocked because he did not answer changeset comments asking
for the sources being used. The block was removed automatically when
Premsakhare read it. Premsakhare uploaded more changesets but did not
answer the 

Re: [Talk-it] [ItalyFuelStations] revisione pre-import

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Il giorno 22 aprile 2018 20:49, Federico Cortese  ha
scritto:

> 2018-04-22 11:13 GMT+02:00 Aury88 :
>
> Infatti, per lo stesso ragionamento anche io sarei per lasciare
> brand=independent.
>
>
Più che lasciare (ce ne sono una cinquantina su 20.000), intendi
valorizzare le altre 3.100?
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Re: [OSM-talk] Oracle is changing Java's license how will it affect JOSM?

[Michael Kugelmann]

Am 22.04.2018 um 20:26 schrieb john whelan:
We have some time to look at alternatives but it might be better not 
to leave it to the last few days.

I suggest that you have a look into the josm-dev mailing list...

e.g. look at this discussion: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/josm-dev/2018-March/007992.html



BR,
Michael.

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Re: [Talk-de] Nutzung des "lit"-Tags in Deutschland

[Michael Kugelmann]

Am 21.04.2018 um 10:02 schrieb Frederik Ramm:

etwas sinnfrei finde ich:

   8 no;yes
=> sollte man die löschen oder gibt es dafür eine vernünftige Erklärung? 
Und: was macht man mit so einem Wert?



   7 lit=yes
Bei "lit=yes" dachte ich erst an einen
Programmfehler, aber https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/565098324 gibt's
tatsächlich
Auch wenn ich das "süß finde": dabei würde ich eindeutig von einem 
Versehen ausgehen welches man IMHO einfach korrigieren sollte.



Wie geht ihr vor, wenn ihr lit=* mappt? Wenn ich am Tage durch eine
Straße fahre und Laternen sehe, reicht das schon für ein "lit=yes"
finde ich genauso. Wer will kann dann gerne mehr Details einfügen und 
Aufwand spendieren; z.B. genaue Betriebszeiten oder Lampen-Typ oder 
wirklich prüfen dass die Lampen funktionieren. BTW: was ist wenn eine 
Lampe "kurzzeitig" defekt ist? Das kann Monate dauern bis mal wieder 
eine Kontrolle gemacht wird oder sich z.B. ein Anwohner beschwert.



Ich habe mal gelesen, dass Gemeinden zum Stromsparen nur jede zweite
Laterne die ganze Nacht brennen lassen. Aber ich kann doch in so einem
Fall die Straße nicht in lauter 50m lange Stücke unterteilen, die Hälte
mit lit=yes und die andre Hälfte mit "lit=". In gewisser Weise
ist ja schon die ganze Straße beleuchtet, auch wenn nur die Hälfte der
Lampen an ist. Bloß halt nich so gut...
Ich sehe es genauso, dass die Straße grundsätzlich ja beleuchtet ist => 
lit=yes. Sonst muss man jede Straßenlaterne einzeln in die Daten einfügen.



Und was ist, wenn auf einer Straßenseite Laternen sind und auf der
anderen nicht?
die Straße ist grundsätzlich beleuchtet, auch wenn Laternen nur an einer 
Seite stehen. Wir beurteilen mit lit=WERT nicht die Beleuchtungsqualität.



Grüße,
Michael.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Oracle is changing Java's license how will it affect JOSM?

[john whelan]

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html

It needs to be translated into English.  For example Long Term Support
means no new versions per three years.

" Basically, free Java 8 updates for commercial customers, such as game
developers, will cease in January 2019. After that date commercial
customers must have a licence to continue to receive the updates.

Free Java 8 updates for non-commercial uses, such as your home PC, will
continue until the end of 2020.

As of last September Oracle have moved to a LTS (Long Term Support) model
for Java with new LTS versions released every 3 years - the current Java 8
was released Sept 2017 so December 2020 will be the end of a three year LTS
cycle. "

Cheerio John

On 22 April 2018 at 14:40, Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:

> On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 14:26:13 -0400
> john whelan  wrote:
>
> > Someone who worked at Oracle has mentioned Oracle would like to be
> > out of JAVA by 2020 and that is the date for individual free licenses
> > to expire.
>
> Source?
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Oracle is changing Java's license how will it affect JOSM? - do not panic

[Jan Martinec]

First off, Oracle could kill Oracle Java Runtime Environment, but the API
of Java is open and implemented e.g. by OpenJDK  (currently also
Oracle-maintained, but not as easily killed.). Oracle could quit Java today
if it wanted to (whether this is an actual intent or just political
posturing w/r/t the Google lawsuit is irrelevant - killing your cash cow
would be a desperate move) - it would not mean that options for running
Java apps would disappear.

In other words, the sky is *not* falling: rushing to port the JOSM
toolchain to a different language would be extremely premature.

Best regards,
Jan "Piskvor" Martinec

Dne ne 22. 4. 2018 20:44 uživatel john whelan 
napsal:

> Fewer applications are using JAVA and it looks as if Oracle is withdrawing
> from JAVA.  It was originally developed by SUN who were taken over by
> Oracle.
>
> Someone who worked at Oracle has mentioned Oracle would like to be out of
> JAVA by 2020 and that is the date for individual free licenses to expire.
>
> It does have a number of security problems but iD doesn't do have the
> tricks that JOSM does.
>
> Could it be rewritten in a different language?  How would the plugins be
> handled?
>
> We have some time to look at alternatives but it might be better not to
> leave it to the last few days.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks John
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Re: [Talk-it] [ItalyFuelStations] revisione pre-import

[Federico Cortese]

2018-04-22 11:13 GMT+02:00 Aury88 :
>
> io manterrei l'attuale value independent in quanto internazionalmente
> utilizzato e riconosciuto per le attività indipendenti dal brand. pompe
> bianche è solo come vengono "chiamati"/"definiti" in Italia quei benzinai
> che non hanno un brand (o meglio che sono indipendenti dai brand, che è
> proprio  come viene inteso ed usato il tag brand=independent ) ...a mio
> avviso mettere brand="pompe bianche" equivale a mappare i ristoranti in
> italia con il tag amenity=ristorante invece che amenity=restaurant...
>

Infatti, per lo stesso ragionamento anche io sarei per lasciare
brand=independent.

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [OSM-co] Nomad Maps: itinerancia cartografica por las Andes!

[Andres Gomez Casanova]

Salut Alban,

Soy Andres Gomez, y miembro de la comunidad OSM. Principalmente mateo en mi 
ciudad, Bogotá. Me puedes encontrar con el usuario AngocA
He realizado varios mapping parties en la ciudad, y estoy liderando el Maptime 
Bogota. Podríamos realizar un mapping party cuando estés aquí.
Cuando llegues, podemos encontrarnos para hablar. Mi WhatsApp es +57 316 621 40 
32
Igualmente, la Cruz Roja colombiana está comenzando a crear un grupo de maperos 
ante desastres, y sería muy benéfico que nos reuniéramos con ellos.

Cordialmente,


Andres Gomez
@angoca

> On Apr 19, 2018, at 5:11 AM, alban vivert  wrote:
> 
> Buenos dias a todos,
> 
> Me llamo Alban Vivert, soy un geografo/cartografo francés de 28 años.
> 
> Les escribo para hablarles de un proyecto que estoy montando con el apoyo de 
> una ONG francesa (http://www.cartong.org/ ) que se 
> llama Nomad Maps.
> 
> Se trata de  un recorrido de seis meses en bicicleta a través de tres países 
> andinos –Colombia, Ecuador y Perú– enfocado hacia “las posibilidades que 
> ofrece la cartografía y la información geográfica colaborativa como 
> herramienta de desarrollo”. 
> 
> Voy a llegar a Colombia el proximo 9 de mayo 2018 en Bogota y me voy a quedar 
> unos dos meses en su pais con 4 objetivos :
> 
>  1 - Entrar en contacto con las comunidades locales OpenStreetMap, conocer 
> sus métodos y proyectos cartográficos, y comunicar en mi página web Nomad 
> Maps y en las redes sociales.
>  2 - Crear microproyectos de cartografía colaborativa in situ o participar a 
> unos ya existentes (1 o 2 semanas max.). En el caso de que éstos sean más 
> extensos, se propondría un apoyo de CartONG y de su comunidad de voluntarios.
>  3 - Cartografiar in situ sobre OpenStreetMap y Mapillary para enriquecer 
> esas dos bases de datos geográficos y contribuir así en la cartografía de las 
> zonas visitadas.
> 4 -  Promover un modo de viaje original, limpio y sostenible con la bicicleta 
> y útil para las comunidades visitadas a través de la cartografía.
> 
> 
> Pueden mirar con mas detalles la pagina web del proyecto ( 
> http://www.nomadmaps.net/   ), la parte "Le 
> Projet" (= El proyecto) esta traducida en castellano).
> 
> 
> Mi recorrido no esta aun definido aun o sea que no duden en escribirme y tal 
> vez nos podemos conocer y encontrar para intercambiar sobre el maravilloso 
> entorno de Open Street Map!
> 
> 
> Aqui unos enlaces: 
> 
> Pagina  web:  http://www.nomadmaps.net/  
> Trailer:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20BgcfE_v30 
> 
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NomadMapsProject/ 
> 
> Mi correo : albanviv...@gmail.com 
> 
> Gracias por su atencion, espero tener muchas respuestas suyas ;)
> 
> Hasta pronto,
> 
> 
> 
>   
>   Alban Vivert
> http://www.nomadmaps.net/  
> https://www.kisskissbankbank.com/fr/projects/nomad-maps 
> 
> 
>  
>  
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-co

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Re: [OSM-talk] Oracle is changing Java's license how will it affect JOSM?

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 14:26:13 -0400
john whelan  wrote:

> Someone who worked at Oracle has mentioned Oracle would like to be
> out of JAVA by 2020 and that is the date for individual free licenses
> to expire.

Source?

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[OSM-talk] Oracle is changing Java's license how will it affect JOSM?

[john whelan]

Fewer applications are using JAVA and it looks as if Oracle is withdrawing
from JAVA.  It was originally developed by SUN who were taken over by
Oracle.

Someone who worked at Oracle has mentioned Oracle would like to be out of
JAVA by 2020 and that is the date for individual free licenses to expire.

It does have a number of security problems but iD doesn't do have the
tricks that JOSM does.

Could it be rewritten in a different language?  How would the plugins be
handled?

We have some time to look at alternatives but it might be better not to
leave it to the last few days.

Thoughts?

Thanks John
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[OSM-talk] The Open Source Geospatial Research and Education Symposium 2018 - “Open Science in Practice”

[Suchith Anand]

Dear colleagues,


The Open Source Geospatial Research and Education Symposiums are biannual 
meetings of the OGRS community dedicated to 
sharing knowledge, new solutions, methods, practices, ideas and trends in the 
field of geospatial information through the development and the use of free and 
open source software in both research and education. The 5th edition of the 
OGRS meeting series is going to be held in Lugano and follows: Nantes 
2009; Yverdon-les-bains 
2012; Espoo 
2014; Perugia 
2016.



The next edition of OGRS will be held from October 9 - 11, 2018 in Lugano, 
Switzerland. The symposium will be hosted and organized by the University of 
Applied Sciences and Arts of Southern Switzerland (SUPSI).


This year conference theme is “Open Science in Practice”. This new approach, 
endorsed by several research funding agencies, aims at improving the impact of 
scientific activities by opening and sharing knowledge, tools and materials. 
Nevertheless, to fully exploits the advantages of this new paradigma and put in 
practice Open Science scientists needs to deeply understand the open principles 
and solve practical issues. OGRS hope to contribute to bring Open Science 
closer to its full implementation facilitating discussion, mutual learning and 
information exchange.


The main goals of OGRS 2018 are:


  *   to foster the adoption and application of Open Science principles in the 
geospatial domain;
  *   to build a panel of new scientific research and education practices using 
and contributing to open source initiatives in the geospatial fields;
  *   to discuss a framework and highlight a rationale about geospatial open 
source technology usage in research and education activities;
  *   to provide an innovation platform to network and develop ideas for future 
collaborative work between academia – from research to education – and other 
actors of the field (associations, foundations, local authorities, industry 
etc.).


The symposium will integrate several opportunities for presenting : oral 
presentations, workshops and posters. To participate in any of these 
opportunities, authors are invited to submit an extended abstract (1000 to 1500 
words, references and keywords excluded) through the conference website. The 
official language is English. The international scientific advisory board will 
review and select abstracts for inclusion in the symposium and publication in 
the symposium proceedings.


Also, OGRS 2018 has a session showcasing interactive open educational resources 
(OER). Please consider submitting your developments and the respective usage 
stories of open educational resources in the geospatial domain to the GeoOER 
session. For excellent submission there is a chance to win the 1st OGRS GeoOER 
Award, sponsored by GITTA, the Geographic Information Technology Training 
Alliance.



For more details, please visit the OGRS’18 website at  
2018.ogrs-community.org or follow our Twitter 
account at https://twitter.com/OGRSCommunity


The call for abstracts for OGRS 2018  is now open and will close on 21 May 2018.


Best wishes,


Suchith



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Re: [Talk-de] Nutzung des "lit"-Tags in Deutschland

[chris66]

Am 21.04.2018 um 14:35 schrieb Garry:


In Belgien hat man gerne die Autobahn beleuchtet:
https://www.hna.de/welt/belgien-beleuchtet-autobahnen-kuenftig-auch-tagsueber-zr-8744765.html 


Die haben ja auch genügend günstigen Atom-Strom ;-)




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Re: [Talk-cz] Data ze ZÚ

[Ha Noj]

Vzhledem k dostupnosti KM/RUIAN a stavu pokrytí OSM v CZ (importy dnes
moc nedávají smysl a jsou obtížně protlačitelné) je:
1) primárně zajímavá ortofotomapa pro odvozování geodat,
2a) sekundárně nějaký výškopis lepší než SRTM,
2b) případně ZABAGED pro import/kontrolu nějakého jednotlivého fenoménu.

Co se týče zkušeností, tak jak kde. Osobně tam needituju, ale zdá se
že IT, AT, GE, DK, NL, US ortofoto spíše poskytuje:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Aerial_imagery
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Data_sources_by_country

ha
hanoj

Dne 22. dubna 2018 14:39 Honza Cibulka  napsal(a):
> Zdar vespolek,
> jelikož se rozhodnutím soudu [1] zas dal do pohybu spor o data ZÚ, měl bych
> volně související teoretickou otázku: jaké datové sady Zeměměřického úřadu
> [2] by pro tuzemské OSM byly nejpřínosnější? Proč? A funguje něco takového v
> zahraničí?
>
> Budu rád za co nejkonkrétnější argumentaci.

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[OSM-talk-fr] OSM sur France 3 Occitanie (en occitan)

[Christian Quest]

C'est ici, premier sujet:
https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/occitanie/emissions/jt-local-1920-edicion-occitana

-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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[Talk-cz] Data ze ZÚ

[Honza Cibulka]

Zdar vespolek,
jelikož se rozhodnutím soudu [1] zas dal do pohybu spor o data ZÚ, měl bych 
volně související teoretickou otázku: jaké datové sady Zeměměřického úřadu [2] 
by pro tuzemské OSM byly nejpřínosnější? Proč? A funguje něco takového v 
zahraničí?

Budu rád za co nejkonkrétnější argumentaci.

[1] http://gismentors.cz/blog/soud-nastavil-mantinely-cenam-dat-ze-zu/

[2] 
http://geoportal.cuzk.cz/(S(003ek0o14b2nafrrkyz5oamk))/Default.aspx?mode=eShop_tab=sekce-01-gp=13#

Jan Cibulka
 
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Re: [OSM-ja] 高速道路の定義について(まとめページ)

[tomoya muramoto]

提案1への質問に対して回答を記入しました。
あくまでもmuramotoの観点ですので、他の方からのご意見もよろしくお願いします。

muramoto
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Re: [Talk-cz] Export GPX z Garmina

[Petr Schönmann]

Když už jsme u toho exportu. Garmin si ukládá pro mě nepochopitelně nějak
trasy. Algoritmu jsem nepřišel na kloub ( Někdy ukládá po 3000 pointech,
někdy tam je i vyšší číslo). Nešlo by docílit chování 1x gpx / den ?
Toto chování jsem měl naposledy v Garminu 60CSx a bylo to naprosto skvělé.
Ve složce s GPX jsem měl soubory 20180422.gpx 20180423.gpx 
Takhle připojím Garmina na USB a mám tam z jednoho dne několik souborů.
Jednak je musím spojovat a je to nepraktické. Nehledě na oddělené waypointy.
Klidně uvítám i nějaký hacklý firmware s novými funkcionalitami jestli něco
takového existuje.
Montana 650.
Díky.

Dne 21. dubna 2018 22:09 Miroslav Suchý <miros...@suchy.cz> napsal(a):

> Dne 21.4.2018 v 20:15 <0174 napsal(a):
> > Ahoj,
> >
> > několik let aktivně používám pro mapování Garmina (eTrex 30) a o žádném
> > nastavení na spojování tras a bodů nevím - nikdy mi to ale při mapování
> > nevadilo, do JOSM načtu oboje.
>
> Ano, JOSM to zvládne, ale osm.org odmítne importovat ty Trasové body a
> křičí, že tam nejsou žádné waypointy.
>
> > Nicméně spojit to určitě půjde v GPS Babelu (jen pozor na české znaky v
> > cestě k souboru).
>
> Jo to jde:
>   gpsbabel -i gpx -f /tmp/Trasové\ body_21-DUB-18.gpx -i gpx -f
> /tmp/Prošlá\ trasa_2018-04-21\ 175355.gpx  -o gpx -F /tmp/o.gpx
>
> Díky. S českými znaky se nezdá být nějaký problém.
>
> Mirek
>
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Re: [Talk-de] Mappen von straßenbegleitendem Weg mit nicht eindeutiger Beschilderung

[Scholtes, Martin]

Sind die Wege durch iwas getrennt, Bsp rassengittersteiner doch zusammenhängend?

Von meinem Huawei-Mobiltelefon gesendet

 Originalnachricht 
Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] Mappen von straßenbegleitendem Weg mit nicht eindeutiger 
Beschilderung
Von: chris66 
An: talk-de@openstreetmap.org
Cc:


Am 22.04.2018 um 11:07 schrieb Marcus Jaschen:

> beim Mappen von Rad- und Gehwegen und deren möglicher Kombinationen bin 
> ich auf einen Fall gestoßen, bei dem ich nicht so recht weiter weiß.
> 
> Es existiert hier neben einer Bundesstraße ein straßenbegleitender Weg, 
> welcher in beiden Richtungen unterschiedlich beschildert ist:
> 
> - in der einen Richtung als „Gemeinsamer Geh- und Radweg“ (Zeichen 240)
> - in der anderen Richtung als „Gehweg, Radfahrer frei“ (Zeichen 239 + 
> 1022-10)

1) die Behörde auf die inkonsistente Beschilderung aufmerksam machen

2) wie folgt taggen (Beispiel): bicycle:forward=designated, 
bicycle:backward=yes, etc..

Chris



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Re: [Talk-de] Mappen von straßenbegleitendem Weg mit nicht eindeutiger Beschilderung

[chris66]

Am 22.04.2018 um 11:07 schrieb Marcus Jaschen:

beim Mappen von Rad- und Gehwegen und deren möglicher Kombinationen bin 
ich auf einen Fall gestoßen, bei dem ich nicht so recht weiter weiß.


Es existiert hier neben einer Bundesstraße ein straßenbegleitender Weg, 
welcher in beiden Richtungen unterschiedlich beschildert ist:


- in der einen Richtung als „Gemeinsamer Geh- und Radweg“ (Zeichen 240)
- in der anderen Richtung als „Gehweg, Radfahrer frei“ (Zeichen 239 + 
1022-10)


1) die Behörde auf die inkonsistente Beschilderung aufmerksam machen

2) wie folgt taggen (Beispiel): bicycle:forward=designated, 
bicycle:backward=yes, etc..


Chris



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Re: [Talk-it] [ItalyFuelStations] revisione pre-import

[Aury88]

Federico Cortese wrote
> 2018-04-21 2:00 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer 

> dieterdreist@

> :
>>
>>> On 20. Apr 2018, at 10:48, Cascafico Giovanni 

> cascafico@

>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Dovremmo decidere se cambiare i name di OSM con la denominazione
>>> ufficiale "Pompe Bianche" ed eventualmente name:en=Independent (ma chi
>>> ha stabilito "Indipendent"?)
>>
>> “Pompe Bianche” è un nome ufficiale?
>> -1 per tutti e due
>>
> 
> Per il name -1 sicuramente, ma nel campo operator?
> Io con la procedura impostata da Stefano qualche tempo fa inserii
> molti degli impianti in provincia di Lecce e mi ricordo che all'epoca
> si decise di usare independent nel campo operator; adesso invece viene
> valorizzato operator=Pompe Bianche, bisognerebbe comunque decidere per
> una delle due.
> 
> Ciao,
> Federico
> 
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io manterrei l'attuale value independent in quanto internazionalmente
utilizzato e riconosciuto per le attività indipendenti dal brand. pompe
bianche è solo come vengono "chiamati"/"definiti" in Italia quei benzinai
che non hanno un brand (o meglio che sono indipendenti dai brand, che è
proprio  come viene inteso ed usato il tag brand=independent ) ...a mio
avviso mettere brand="pompe bianche" equivale a mappare i ristoranti in
italia con il tag amenity=ristorante invece che amenity=restaurant...



-
Ciao,
Aury
--
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[Talk-de] Mappen von straßenbegleitendem Weg mit nicht eindeutiger Beschilderung

[Marcus Jaschen]

Hallo zusammen,

beim Mappen von Rad- und Gehwegen und deren möglicher Kombinationen bin 
ich auf einen Fall gestoßen, bei dem ich nicht so recht weiter weiß.


Es existiert hier neben einer Bundesstraße ein straßenbegleitender 
Weg, welcher in beiden Richtungen unterschiedlich beschildert ist:


- in der einen Richtung als „Gemeinsamer Geh- und Radweg“ (Zeichen 
240)
- in der anderen Richtung als „Gehweg, Radfahrer frei“ (Zeichen 239 
+ 1022-10)


Der Weg an sich existiert bereits in OSM, das Tagging bildet aber nur 
den ersten Fall ab. Das Wiki[1] hilft mir in diesem speziellen Fall 
nicht so recht weiter (oder ich deute es nicht richtig).


Wie wäre hier der korrekte Mapping-Ansatz?

Viele Grüße

Marcus

[1] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Bicycle/Radverkehrsanlagen_kartieren


--
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Rudolf-Breitscheid-Straße 22
15741 Bestensee
Germany

+4915123038682
m...@marcusjaschen.de
GPG Key: https://marcusjaschen.de/_assets/0xCE13FDF2.asc
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Re: [Talk-it] State of the Map 2018 - biglietti early bird

[Aury88]

Alessandro Palmas wrote
> Salve lista,
> questa mail per avvisare che i biglietti a tariffa scontata early bird 
> saranno disponibili ancora per una quindicina di giorni. Se pensate di 
> essere presenti approfittatene.
> 
> Oltre ai vari interventi estremamente interessanti avremo anche dei 
> workshop che saranno senz'altro da seguire. Compreso nel biglietto 
> sabato 28 luglio si terrà la serata social con cena e dopocena accanto 
> al Castello Sforzesco.
> 
> Spero che almeno per un'occasione di importanza mondiale la comunità 
> italiana di una buona risposta.
> Approfitto anche dell'occasione per chiedere se qualcuno ha dei ritagli 
> di tempo a disposizione per aiutare, anche da remoto, 
> all'organizzazione. Ad oggi purtroppo l'apporto della comunità è vicino 
> allo zero e devo ringraziare gli sforzi supplementari dei volontari 
> della OSM Foundation.
> 
> Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT
> 
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biglietto già acquistato e date già segnate sul calendario ;-)

rinnovo ancora una volta la mia disponibilità anche per i giorni che
precedono l'evento per approntare il materiale e le aule. Sono anche in
attesa che venga definita una data per il mappingparty per la mappatura ,
delle panchine e dei cestini della Piazza Leonardo Da Vinci (se ho tempo
proverò ad estenderlo anche agli edifici del campus leonardo interessati
dall'evento).

per quanto riguarda l'aiuto da remoto ti avevo inviato una mail Alessandro,
ma temo sia finita nello spam. cosa c'è da fare?



-
Ciao,
Aury
--
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Re: [Talk-de] Flächen/Wege // Trolling in changesets

[mmd]

Am 22.04.2018 um 07:30 schrieb "Christian Müller":

> 
>  Änderungen in diesen Kernbereichen laufen zum jetzigen Zeitpunkt stets gegen 
> die Macht der Gewohnheit und zahllose Abhängigkeiten "downstream" an, 
> weswegen Weiterentwicklungen in der API oder der DB-Objektlogik imho am 
> besten in neuen Projekten (Forks) aufgehoben sind.  Dieses Grundkonzept 
> node/way/relation ist in der jetzigen Form doch fast eine "heilige Kuh" und 
> der API-Versionsstand in der Kategorie "never change a running system" 
> (geworden), nicht?

Da bisher alle Forks grandios gescheitert sind, halte ich davon eher
wenig. Ich glaube, jeder teilt aber die Auffassung, dass eine Änderung
am Datenmodell generell eine Sachen von mehreren Jahren ist.

Als Vorteil sehe ich, dass eine Umstellung kein Big Bang sein muss. Es
wäre z.B. möglich, einen speziell aufbereiteten Planet zusätzlich
anzubieten und einzelne Tools schrittweise umzustellen (vor allem
Router/Renderer und ähnliches). Anpassung der Editoren wird ein extrem
spannendes Thema und irgendwann dann die Migration und Umstellung der
API - eben ein Projekt für mehrere Jahre.

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Re: [Talk-de] Flächen/Wege // Trolling in changesets

[mmd]

Am 21.04.2018 um 23:20 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
> 
>> On 21. Apr 2018, at 20:51, Christian Müller  wrote:
>>
>> Dennoch experimentierwürdig,

> finde ich unattraktiv, da ginge ja der topologische Zusammenhalt verloren, ob 
> es eine gemeinsame Grenze ist, oder ob die Grenze “zufällig” übereinstimmt, 
> dh. man müsste umständlich herausfinden, welche Grenzen jeweils 
> zusammengehören, für bestimmte Anwendungen (z.B. muss man beim Vereinfachen 
> von Grenzen nur jeweils eine Grenze vereinfachen für beide Nachbarn, würde 
> man jeweils die Grenze unabhängig vereinfachen würde sie danach nicht mehr 
> genau zusammenpassen). Das ist nicht nur irgendein Ausnahmefall sondern die 
> Grundlage für die Vektorkarten.
> 

Ihr müsst einfach mal schauen, welche Datenmengen dahinter stecken.
Momentan schleppen wir 4,4 Milliarden Nodes mit uns herum, davon 3,8
Milliarden Nodes, die nur in irgendwelchen Ways vorkommen, ohne
Verbindung zu anderen Ways und ohne eigene Tags. Die einzige
Nutzinformation ist hier die lat/lon-Information (Metadaten klammere ich
bewusst aus, da sie für Rendering oder Routing keine Rolle spielen).

Schieben wir diese Nodes als Koordinate in den Way und löschen die alten
Nodes, werden wir augenblicklich 85% der Nodes los. Das hat massive
Auswirkungen auf Hardwareanforderungen von Tools, die mit den Daten
arbeiten wollen.

Jedes Tool muss sich momentan einen riesigen Cache aufbauen, der zu der
Node Id die entsprechenden Koordinaten zurück liefert, damit überhaupt
klar ist, wie die Geometrie eines Ways aussieht.

Zum Thema topologischer Zusammenhalt: ich hatte eingangs ja schon
angesprochen, dass wir alternativ "Verbindungs"-knoten zu anderen Ways
weiterhin als Node behalten könnten, so dass überhaupt kein Unterschied
zum jetzigen topologischen Eigenschaften entsteht (wir nennen das
einfach mal "hybrides Modell"). Ebenso könnte sich in einem rein
"Koordinaten"-basierten Modell der Editor um solche Sachen kümmern
(Details offen).

Im schon mehrmals angesprochenen OSM Samstag Workshop wurde das
Topologiethema auch groß und breit diskutiert. Ich denke, da wird es in
der Zukunft wohl noch eine textbasierte Zusammenfassung geben, in der
die Vor/Nachteile der verschiedenen Optionen detailliert beschrieben werden.

-- 



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