Re: [OSM-talk] OSM : It's a shame !!!
Hello, I will retract the troll bit as you seem actually to be "enthusiastic" but you seriously have to work on the perception that you give to people in the first place. Goodwill is something difficult enough to accrue in the first place. However, I will not retract the fact that I consider that you are a bit disingenuous in your behaviour. Emilie Laffray On 29 May 2012 11:48, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen < g.grem...@cetest.nl> wrote: > Emilie, > > ** ** > > I defend 2 legal interests: > > ** ** > > Mine : I invested time work and money, that I co-licensed under CC-by-SA > to the previous OSM > > OSM: by keeping the OSM database clean of tainted data > > ** ** > > ** ** > > If you call that trolling …… > > Sometimes I think that people are called trolls because they defend > > statements other do not agree with. > > ** ** > > Sorry Emilie, it’s a pity if that creates some loss of data, > > but you should take it like a man, and accept the consequences > > of the route OSM took. Put the liability on those who are**** > > responsible for that ! > > ** ** > > Gert > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *Van:* Emilie Laffray [mailto:emilie.laff...@gmail.com] > *Verzonden:* Tuesday, May 29, 2012 12:19 PM > *Aan:* ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen > *CC:* Thomas Davie; talk@openstreetmap.org > > *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk] OSM : It's a shame !!! > > ** ** > > Hello, > > ** ** > > First of all, let me just say it is indeed impolite to share private > conversation but I would love to see that tested in a court. > > That said, the whole point of people in FOSM waiting for OSM to fail is > kind of annoying. I understand why the fork happened (doesn't mean that I > agree with it); I understand why some people are reacting the way they do > but I have to admit it is getting ridiculous. > > FOSM is a fork. It is a conscious statement that you wanted to break away. > I am glad that you guys had that *freedom* in the first place (despite all > the FUD that the new contributor terms won't allow forking) and I wish you > the best of luck in this project as I wish the best of luck to other > mapping projects like Common map for example. Now, you decided to leave the > project so just leave it. I am not going to go to FOSM and ask for my data > to be deleted playing on my moral right for example (even though sometimes > I am seriously tempted to ask for my data to be removed out of exasperation > due to the behaviour of some members of FOSM). > > If you strongly believe that ODbL won't stand the legal scrutiny, mount a > legal challenge to it. Just do it. That said, you have to realize that ODbL > is currently the licence that is being used more and more in France for > OpenData and actually across the world having being reviewed by several > legal departments. You may not agree with the way it was drafted but it > seriously look like it has some legs. > > If you point out elements that have been copied, we will be happy to make > sure that people is not copying from your data. Anyway up to a point, the > data will be replaced and the very use of copyright on fact is tenuous at > best. I think from that point of view, despite all the mistakes the > foundation made during the process (we are after all volunteers), the > foundation has shown lot of willingness to sort many issues; it just that > at some points we can only agree to disagree hence why there was a fork.** > ** > > You are just trolling. You are not even constructive towards FOSM. From > the way I look at it, FOSM is only a half hearted fork where there are only > a few people actually contributing, the rest of them is just sulking that > OSM didn't go their way. Maybe it is time to be more constructive towards > the choice that you made. From that point of view, I really appreciate the > work of some people in FOSM who are actually being constructive. > > ** ** > > In short, feel free to complain when your data is *REALLY* used wrongly. > Else, put up or shut up regarding the ODbL. If you really believe that it > is not going to work, mount a proper legal challenge. > > ** ** > > Emilie Laffray > > On 29 May 2012 10:53, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen < > g.grem...@cetest.nl> wrote: > > I did not give you permission to share > a private conversation on the list. > > That is also about copyrights, Davie. > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM : It's a shame !!!
Hello, Fine. So you are saying that the email you sent to Thomas was out of kindness not out of petty goals? Also you are not answering my points in the first place. I find you pretty disingenuous at time and while I do respect the other projects out there, you are not helping them in any way. As I said, I am fast reaching a point where I am actually reviewing my legal choice to get the data I contributed to REMOVED from FOSM as a statement and even considering some lawyer to actually get it done. The only reason why I have not done so, so far, is not to appear like a complete jerk. I am actually considering this more and more as it would be the perfect way to test whether CC-By-SA is indeed capable of protecting facts in the first place. I can assure you that the likelihood of that is going to be very slim based in a court in France. This is however something not constructive in the first place. More seriously, as I have said, I have no trouble with data being removed as it is part of the life of such a project and to make sure that we are clean in terms of "potential" copyrights (I am not convinced that facts can retain copyrights in the first place on facts, especially after talking to so many legal people over the past 3 years). I think your point has been made numerous time and I am pretty convinced it will be honoured. That said, I will be more than happy to discuss that discussion offline if you so desire, but I have no intention to continue replying bitterly to all posts afterwards. Emilie Laffray On 29 May 2012 11:48, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen < g.grem...@cetest.nl> wrote: > Emilie, > > ** ** > > I defend 2 legal interests: > > ** ** > > Mine : I invested time work and money, that I co-licensed under CC-by-SA > to the previous OSM > > OSM: by keeping the OSM database clean of tainted data > > ** ** > > ** ** > > If you call that trolling …… > > Sometimes I think that people are called trolls because they defend > > statements other do not agree with. > > ** ** > > Sorry Emilie, it’s a pity if that creates some loss of data, > > but you should take it like a man, and accept the consequences > > of the route OSM took. Put the liability on those who are > > responsible for that ! > > ** ** > > Gert > > ** ** > > ** > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM : It's a shame !!!
Hello, First of all, let me just say it is indeed impolite to share private conversation but I would love to see that tested in a court. That said, the whole point of people in FOSM waiting for OSM to fail is kind of annoying. I understand why the fork happened (doesn't mean that I agree with it); I understand why some people are reacting the way they do but I have to admit it is getting ridiculous. FOSM is a fork. It is a conscious statement that you wanted to break away. I am glad that you guys had that *freedom* in the first place (despite all the FUD that the new contributor terms won't allow forking) and I wish you the best of luck in this project as I wish the best of luck to other mapping projects like Common map for example. Now, you decided to leave the project so just leave it. I am not going to go to FOSM and ask for my data to be deleted playing on my moral right for example (even though sometimes I am seriously tempted to ask for my data to be removed out of exasperation due to the behaviour of some members of FOSM). If you strongly believe that ODbL won't stand the legal scrutiny, mount a legal challenge to it. Just do it. That said, you have to realize that ODbL is currently the licence that is being used more and more in France for OpenData and actually across the world having being reviewed by several legal departments. You may not agree with the way it was drafted but it seriously look like it has some legs. If you point out elements that have been copied, we will be happy to make sure that people is not copying from your data. Anyway up to a point, the data will be replaced and the very use of copyright on fact is tenuous at best. I think from that point of view, despite all the mistakes the foundation made during the process (we are after all volunteers), the foundation has shown lot of willingness to sort many issues; it just that at some points we can only agree to disagree hence why there was a fork. You are just trolling. You are not even constructive towards FOSM. From the way I look at it, FOSM is only a half hearted fork where there are only a few people actually contributing, the rest of them is just sulking that OSM didn't go their way. Maybe it is time to be more constructive towards the choice that you made. From that point of view, I really appreciate the work of some people in FOSM who are actually being constructive. In short, feel free to complain when your data is *REALLY* used wrongly. Else, put up or shut up regarding the ODbL. If you really believe that it is not going to work, mount a proper legal challenge. Emilie Laffray On 29 May 2012 10:53, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen < g.grem...@cetest.nl> wrote: > I did not give you permission to share > a private conversation on the list. > > That is also about copyrights, Davie. > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] We Need to Stop Google's Exploitation of Open Communities
On 12 April 2011 09:58, Erik Johansson wrote: > > I would place downloading the planet on the same level as compiling a > kernel. Not really hard, but something most Ubuntu users are scared of > doing. > > Agreed, but then again do you expect everyone every Ubuntu users to start compiling kernels? Technical OSM has a learning curve but then again GIS has also a high learning curve. I guess that as soon as you get technical it limits the number of people who can do it, but at least you are not limiting who can do it as opposed to be part of the closed source. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] We Need to Stop Google's Exploitation of Open Communities
On 11 April 2011 16:48, Thomas Davie wrote: > > If you don't mind about being open, why are you not just using Google's > data already? > > Hello, thank you for your insightful comment, I will move immediately to Google and start using their data directly. Can you point out to me where I can access their data so I can make an efficient use of them? Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] CORINE land cover data
Until recently, the data was owned by each state. You had to ask each one of them to get the data. In addition, CLC 2000 is pretty much useless which was the only one available for free. 2006 is the one you want to start working with. Emilie Laffray On 3 Jan 2011 11:47, "Oscar Orbe" wrote: > Hello, Ciprian. Is it not strange that each OSM community has to explicitly ask EEA about it? we're are talking about _one_ database (OSM) and _one_ dataset (CLC)? The confirmation you received was limited to the Romanian data? The CLC dataset is not homogeneous in terms of license then? --Oscar > > --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Ciprian Talaba wrote: > > From: Ciprian Talaba > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] CORINE land cover data > To: "Oscar Orbe" > Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org > Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 11:32 AM > > Hi Oscar, > I have found different statements about the license of CLC data on the EEA website at some point so we (Romania's OSM users) took the time to send them an email asking about using their data in OSM. The response was positive and was delivered in around 2 weeks. So I recommend to do the same thing if you want to be sure. > > --Ciprian > > On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Oscar Orbe wrote: > > Hello, in this page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Corine_Land_Cover it says "Until now, the terms of use did not allow commercial use unless the Agency has expressly granted the right to do so [2]", but if you go to link [2], it says "Unless otherwise indicated, re-use of content on the EEA website for commercial or non-commercial purposes is permitted free of charge, provided that the source is acknowledged." Is our wiki out-of-date? CLC data can now be used in OSM (not only in France and other specific areas)? --Oscar > > > > > > > ___ > > talk mailing list > > talk@openstreetmap.org > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > > > > > > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim & US places
I agree. Don't forget it is the holiday and people take more time to reply. What would be nice from Nominatim point of view is the creation of a page where you would enter your test cases and what you expect. That would allow the developer of nominatim to include those in his test suite. It would make sense as not everyone understands the subtlety of a different adressing system. Such a page would be perfect for people to add knowledge.about their country. Geocoding is not something trivial. Emilie Laffray On 2 Jan 2011 00:38, "Tom Hughes" wrote: > On 01/01/11 23:06, Richard Welty wrote: > >> it's not really leading anywhere, in part due to the fact that >> noone from Nominatim has spoken up. i did just review the >> Nominatim stuff i found in the wiki. they want postal code >> polygons in the database; in the US this is the extremely iffy >> zip code boundary stuff that probably shouldn't go in. i think >> there are some architectural issues to be resolved, but this is >> a pretty awful forum for that sort of thing especially given >> the absence of the Nominatim folks themselves from the >> discussion. > > Why don't you stop panicing, take a chill pill, and wait a few days for > Brian to be able to comment about Nominatim. Then at least anything you > decide to do might be based on actual information instead of random > uninformed guesswork. > > Tom > > -- > Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) > http://compton.nu/ > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CT clarification: third-party sources
On 14 December 2010 16:10, Olaf Schmidt-Wischhöfer wrote: > Hi,, > > > NB: we've been asked to suggest changes to the CT's if we think they > > are unclear. I cannot remember whether you caught that. > > Where should these suggestions be made? > > My last suggested change, posted to this list, received no response at all > from the licensing working group. (The problem is not that other people > disagreed with my suggestion and gave me feedback will probably lead me to > suggest an entirely different change. The problem is that I will not spend > the > time doing so if the licensing workgroup doesn't care anyway.) > > Sending a message to le...@osmfoundation.org will definitely get some attention. We are regularly looking at what is in the mailbox. You can see from the minutes of the LWG that we are taking opinions into consideration. We are also looking here and while we can't answer personally every message, we are trying to make sure to address issues that are found when it is possible. Emilie Laffray ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Explicit tagging of name language
On 7 December 2010 14:49, wrote: > Judging from the examples cited in the thread, such as Scotland being > tagged in both English and French, we aren't limited to just names in the > country's official languages. French is not an official language in > Scotland. > Historically, it should have been :p Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Working for Mapquest as of today
Hello, I am pleased to announce that I started working at MapQuest today. I want to let the OSM community know how excited I am about this new opportunity. I will continue in my capacity as an elected member of the OSMF board, and as Treasurer. I will be the technical product manager for the main site search team. I will be sure to update my biography on the foundation web site in the next few days. You know how busy it is when you start a new job! Emily Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Communication Group Minutes
On 30 November 2010 06:55, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > I have just read the newest OSMF Communication Working Group Minutes. > > https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=11qaYQt-7rjQsRmVxJ1DSKLgWl4-XZrIyJcIXeeIEvd4 > which is shortened as > http://bit.ly/exKvJM > > I didn't actually get any information whatsoever from these minutes. > Have they been especially sanitised for public distribution or is this > really what those people didn't actually discuss in a meeting situation? > Hello, of course they have been sanitized: we don't want our marching orders to be known (given to us by Mapquest, Bing, Cloudmade, Geofabrik and every other companies working with OSM evidently). We don't want to leave compromising evidences. More seriously, the minutes are light because not all meetings are packed with exciting and new things coming. And the more exciting part is that we have nothing to hide and you could actually join the team if you are interested. We started with a small number of people who have been doing communication for OSM (Harry Wood is a volunteer based in London who has been organizing many of the local meetings, Richard Weait since he is very active on OpenGeodata site, Oliver Kuhn for writing his blog and being chair, and me for being co chair, and spending an awful lot of time getting involved in the French community). We then expended to Hurricane that has been doing some communication in the past, and finally we just invited someone from the US local chapter who is interested in communication. The communication working group scope so far has voluntarily been relatively light initially since previous attempts lead nowhere. We have been working in making sure that the foundation blog is alive and providing information about what is happening inside the foundation. Comments about lack of transparence are here, and those are the initial attempts at publicizing what is happening. You can see the latest post here: http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2010/11/28/working-group-summary-3/ The following work that we are doing is working on translating the blog in different language to make sure that we reach different communities in the world. The second project is revamping the foundation website to make sure that it is functional and readable, with proper text on what is the foundation and so on based on the current articles that were written by 80n. The main goal is to get something sustainable and then start doing a bit of outreach in the future but we are not there yet. The potential scope of the CWG will expand eventually when we have done the initial goal which is to give an insight of what is going on and how the different working group can be contacted and/or joined. Also I would like to remind people we are all volunteers in the end and it would be nice to have more volunteers to be involved. Emily Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Bing Tracing
On 26 November 2010 13:05, Mike N. wrote: > When the lawyers at MS give the OK to a formal statement. AFAIK everyone at >> bing is OK with it, but the statement-slash-agreeement-slash-whatever has >> to >> go through legal. >> > > Hopefully Legal won't decide that it is unacceptable. > > I suspect that if legal had decided it was unacceptable, Bing wouldn't have released the statement in the first place. It is a matter of reviewing everything before opening the flood gate. Emily Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion for an Unconference
On 24 November 2010 18:20, Peter Wendorff wrote: > Dangerous question. > On the one hand you are right: It would be awesome. > But on the other OSM should not be as a big companies wants it to be. > I agree with the statement that OSM should be what OSM wants to be. If the goal of OSM coincides with those companies, good, else we should not move out of our way to serve those companies interest. Emily Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tracking deletions
On 16 November 2010 09:00, Mikel Maron wrote: > Is there an easy way to track deletions only in a particular area? > I've noticed a couple features missing in Kibera, and paging through > changesets for a while didn't turn up anything. > Looking at ItoMapper, deleted features aren't being visualized. > Any ideas? > OWL has some functionality to track history. That's how I tracked some deletion in my area (Thanks Matt). Emily Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New: A black&white base layer
On 3 November 2010 12:47, Kate Chapman wrote: > Probably all of those in this category on the wiki:) > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Groupies_of_IvanSanchez > > Long live the Glittermap! > > indeed! We still need a better Glittermap! Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM data and Google Maps
On 2 November 2010 22:14, Richard Mann wrote: > As far as I am concerned anyone is free to use the data I've put into > OSM, as long as they let me have access to a reasonable amount of > stuff in return. Share and share alike. > > I'd rather they'd kept the data, and offered to allow some to be > available in exchange. > > Which they can't probably do contractually unless it is their own data (MapMaker) in the case of Google. Emily Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM book
On 28 October 2010 19:45, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2010/10/28 Kenneth Gonsalves : > > On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 15:51 +0100, Steve Chilton wrote: > >> "OpenStreetMap: Using and Enhancing the Free Map of the World" by > >> Ramm, Topf and Chilton is now widely available and selling well. > > > > ramm and chilton have got together? wow! > > > is there some content in the English translation that the German > version doesn't have? > > Yes Emily Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
On 13 October 2010 20:35, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:04:20 +0200 > M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > OK if the streets are perfectly straight and there is nothing around > > ;-) > Perfect for rural and remote Western Australia then. > (This is the part of the world that owns the longest railway straight > in existence) > > I agree, plus if the traces are numerous, the coverage could end up being quite good. In addition, they might be good enough to provide some initial sketch of roads. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] "source" tag: on "empty" nodes too?
On 12 October 2010 19:20, Chris Browet wrote: > I am wondering (in the context of adding automatic "source" in merkaartor): > > When drawing over a map source requiring attribution (e.g. SpotMaps > France), do we have to add the "source" tag to "empty" nodes (i.e. nodes > whose only purpose is to define a way), too? > No, it makes no sense to add source tags on node if they are "empty" (part of a way). As far as I know, Spot Images never asked for this exhaustivity as long as the way containing the point is attributed. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Blue sky API: Branching function
On 9 October 2010 08:51, Steve Bennett wrote: > > You also haven't mentioned the obvious use for different licences etc. > > I doubt that such a scheme would have any use for different licences since most advices on dealing with multiple licences end up telling to separate the database so they don't share any data at all, else you contaminate your extra sources. Any scheme breaking this would result in a nightmare as we would not know what licence to use, etc... Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Anonymous edits on OpenStreetMap through Tor
On 6 October 2010 22:46, Niklas Cholmkvist wrote: > Hi, > > is anyone contributing to OpenStreetMap by using Tor? (the onion router) > Is there any opinion from anyone about this? Tor is used to strengthen > ones privacy by the technology trying to prevent revealing the ip > address of the user. > Since the project doesn't log IP Addresses as far as I can tell, there is no privacy gain by using TOR. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
On 5 October 2010 15:51, Jeremy G wrote: > Hi, > > I'm the author of the blog post. Sorry Emilie if you were planning an > official announcement, I've posted right after reading the info on the OSM > Talk-fr, hope it's OK. > > Once again congratulations to every person involved in this agreement, it's > a great progress for OpenStreetMap in general :) > No worries :) It is always good to see progress in the right direction :) Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] spot imagery for osm tracing
On 5 October 2010 13:05, maning sambale wrote: > Dear all, > > I stumbled into a blog post regarding the french osm community was > given permission to trace from Spot imagery. Is this for France only > coverage? > > blog post: > > http://www.geographiques.org/carnet/2010/10/05/spot-images-met-a-disposition-de-la-communaute-openstreetmap-les-donnees-spotmaps/ > > google translate link: > > http://translate.google.com.ph/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=tl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geographiques.org%2Fcarnet%2F2010%2F10%2F05%2Fspot-images-met-a-disposition-de-la-communaute-openstreetmap-les-donnees-spotmaps%2F > > Hoping we can do this for the Philippines as well. > I am planning to officially translate the announcement today. The data is only available for a period of 6 months for France only . There is no plan as of now for other countries. Whether the deal is extended or not will depend on how much the data is used and its impact on the resulting map. Many people in France have starting using the data to enhance the polygons that were imported during the Corine Land Cover import. The precision of 2.5 m doesn't allow too much precision in drawing roads and buildings. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL
Hello, just a quick note to mention that two different legal entities in very different places in the world just adopted ODbL as their preferred licenses: http://www.dataplace.org/odbl (sorry it is in French but people who can read will see that it is the city of Paris) http://www.regardsurlenumerique.fr/blog/2010/9/28/opendata-a-paris_nous-publierons-une-vingtaine-de-jeux-de-donnees-avant-la-fin-2010_/ I am pretty sure that more legal details will emerge in the future on why ODbL was chosen over licenses. Emilie Laffray ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Partnership between OSM and local government?
On 22 September 2010 09:34, John Smith wrote: > On 22 September 2010 18:24, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > I agree that this may be different if you're dealing with a bueraucracy > on a > > national level where you don't try to get them to give the data to you > > I'm not sure how much geodata local governments here retain ownership > over, but the states and federal government seem to control most/all > of it. > > I suspect that it depends from country to country. The situation in France is that the data is very fragmented at different levels (local, regional, national), with small towns having sometimes the ownership of their data. We tend to negotiate to town level or "agglomerations" if we can as well as higher level, as they all have a different piece of the puzzle. We have been successful in France in getting data from all different levels with generally very permissive agreements under the condition that the data is used only for OpenStreetMap. But at the same time, there is currently a nice push by governing bodies to use proper licensing ie not creative commons to release data and I wouldn't be surprised that at some point, some of those bodies would be using custom crafted database licenses (as it is becoming the base) or potentially ODbL since it is seen as some as the first data license capable of protecting the data in the first place. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Culvert and average contributor
On 27 August 2010 13:55, wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Pieren wrote: > >> is that okay if I modify the wiki page and suggest to use > >> "tunnel=culvert" (and "ford=culvert" / "bridge=culvert") instead of the > >> ambivalent "culvert=yes" ? > > > > I'd like to know what ford=culvert means first. > > > > ___ > > > > Sorry, I should have photographed one I passed this morning, complete with > water. > I am sure there will be other opportunities to take that photo. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] To calm some waters - about Section 3
On 25 August 2010 10:23, Kevin Peat wrote: > > > On 25 August 2010 08:41, Frederik Ramm wrote: > >> >> >> It is bad enough if the share-alike minority force their will on the rest >> of the project now; we must not allow them to force their will on everybody >> who is in OSM in 10 years' time. >> >> > I find this oft-repeated argument to be totally bogus. It's like saying > that I shouldn't paint my house because the person who owns it in 10 years > time might not like it. > > If OSMers in 2020 don't like the license they are free to change it or to > start a new project just as people are today. We should make a decision on > what seems like the best choice as we see it today not what someone may want > in 10 years time. > > I am quite happy for OSMF to have the power to upgrade to newer versions of > ODBL as the license matures to save all this hassle again but there should > be some sensible limits on what the OSMF can do otherwise it is open to > abuse. > I believe that an agreement of 2/3 of active contributors and a vote of the OSMF members is quite a nice garantee. John mentioned that someone could just create lots of account, but honestly I suspect that kind of behavior would be caught quite easily and dealt with accordingly. If I was to detect, I would no doubt seize the board to see how to exclude those and make sure that we have a fair vote. This is really to empower the community in the end, not to try to shaft it. Emilie Laffray ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] I don't want companies stealing OSM data that I contribute!
On 19 August 2010 11:07, Valent Turkovic wrote: > AFAIK with new Contributor Terms [1] all data entered into OSM can be > taken by some company, closed and they could create a product made profit > on it. > > Yes or no? Please just answer this for start. > > I have no problem with companies making a profit, just go ahead and do it. > > I have a problem with companies that would like to take data, add some of > their own and not release it, and prohibit making derivative works from > data that is based on OSM. > > If this is true then there needs to be a fork in this project as soon as > possible. > > Sorry for the tone of this message. > > [1] http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms > > Hello, While I am not a legal expert, I will try to answer that one. Companies can already make money from OpenStreetMap: there are plenty of examples around (Skobbler, Cloudmade, Geofabrik, etc). There is nothing preventing a company from using the data. However, they are bound to make their data available. With the new contributor terms, nothing changes. One of the major difference though is that you grant your rights to the foundation. This is something that many open source projects do like GCC (the Free Software Foundation owns the rights, and therefore decides about GPL licenses) and Apache (The Apache foundation owns the rights http://www.apache.org/licenses/ and decides the licence). Rights assignement is common in the Open Source world whether used by copyleft people or more attribution license. I don't think that the Apache or the Free Software Foundation are evil in themselves Your data will be using the ODbL, which is a share alike and attribution license, which means that effectively that a company cannot extract data and close the map like with CC-BY-SA. This is a very quick summary and you are more than welcome to go to the Legal Mailing list to discuss this. Emilie Laffray ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wanted - spare CC-BY-SA account
On 10 August 2010 14:49, John Smith wrote: > On 10 August 2010 23:44, Florian Lohoff wrote: > > In case i dont care and like PD more than CC-BY-SA or even worse the ODbl > i would > > be more than happy to continue with CC-BY-SA and accept it to fail in > court, > > basically putting the OSM Data into PD ... > > I never really got that, pro-PD people are pro-ODBL because copyright > may not be enough to cover the database... > > It could be that those pro-PD people actually cares more about the project than pushing an ideology. I would like to point out that there are other major pro-PD who are against ODbL, because of the SA requirements. It is just that most of the vocal pro-PD on those lists care more about getting data than none. Yes, there are compromises towards those people but the license is a SA BY license ultimately. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] decision removing data
On 5 August 2010 14:19, Anthony wrote: > > What makes you think that contractual element will offer any > "protection" in Australia? Has an Australian court case upheld the > enforcement of contractual restriction on people who didn't even know > the contract existed? > > And who told you that OSM is a collection of unoriginal facts? That > part of the argument is rather obviously untrue. OSM is a collection > of unoriginal facts about as much as Wikipedia is. Which is to say, > sure, it *contains* a collection of unoriginal facts, but it expresses > those facts in a unique way. > > Hum, I think that quite a few things on Wikipedia can be considered creative in the first place allowing for copyrights to kick in. Hum, in Wikipedia, it is not the facts that is protected but the writing. In OSM, we are talking about a physical representation of those facts namely their geometries, which is quite different. Emilie Laffray ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revert requests in general
On 4 August 2010 15:13, andrzej zaborowski wrote: > > Let's look at it practically. If a proxy (e.g. nearmap) user commits > vandalism, there are several things OSM may want to do: 1. undo the > vandalism, 2. contact the user, 3. block the user. > > For 1. it's actually better that the edits are logically grouped into > changesets, rather than imported by a 3rd party in 5 element > changesets. Obviously it would be even better if all the proxy user's > changesets were grouped in an individual user account. But Ben > mentioned that changes were going to be tagged, so I suppose it will > be possible to locate all the individual human editor's edits. > > For 2. again Ben mentioned that there would be a way to do that, and > for 3. he hasn't said anything but I expect they have thought of it > too. So considering this, blocking the entire account would be > overzealous. But then if it is eventually determined that nearmap.com > were the "bad guys", that would be useful. > > Yes, it would require support in editors like JOSM to see who edited a > given feature last.. on the other hand most of the times if you have > doubts about the quality of some change, you have to see the full > history of the object, because the interesting edit may have been > before last edit. > What nearmap could do is provide some kind of hash in the changeset that could help identify someone. Hopefully, that would allow us to point out to them when someone is behaving very badly. How that hash is defined is of course to be defined (it would probably be a composite key, and they would be the only who knows what it means). Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Problems with names with postfixes / types
2010/8/4 Brian Quinion > On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 2:57 AM, woll wrote: > > Better to keep this thread restricted to the subject of "is it valid to > tag > > names with postfixes", and have any technical discussions separately in > the > > trac report! > > Yes - it was probably a mistake to reference the ticket in this > message, I was really just supplying some background. > > The basic question is the one you have stated - Is it valid to tag > names with postfixes? > > And spiting it down: > > Are there circumstances where it is / is not valid? > > Should different versions of the name be split into seperate tags? > > e.g. name:ja = 福岡福岡市 > base_name:ja = 福岡 > > Is including the 市 tagging for render or is this the 'real' name? > > My understanding is that 市 (and the other type) is part of the name while at the same time indicating the type of municipality. In our company, we kept the postfix symbol to represent the municipality based on some reports of some Japanese people. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Problems with names with postfixes / types
On 3 August 2010 20:14, Brad Neuhauser wrote: > When I lived in Japan, almost all place names included the place type, > as specified on the Japan tagging page, both officially and in common > usage. If you want to change this, I'd suggest first contacting some > of the Japanese OSMers. If you remove it, it might actually make the > map look wrong from their perspective (ie--see this Yahoo Japan map > centered on Fukuoka City: > > http://map.yahoo.co.jp/pl?type=scroll&lat=33.60887995386457&lon=130.37717309463633&z=12&mode=map&pointer=on&datum=wgs&fa=ks&home=on&hlat=33.654045269419&hlon=130.45133080948&layout=&ei=utf-8&p=fukuoka > ) > > Also, (getting at the issue brought up in the ticket) Japanese users > might have some insight as to how Japanese language searches are > handled--not an easy thing! > Yes I agree. We should contact the Japanese community to have their input. Japanese addresses are so interesting on so many different level. In addition, they have started recently to import administrative boundaries and there are some free sources (Japanese government) on chome data (center of gravity). Most of that data is very similar to the data that Zenrin holds. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On 30 July 2010 17:14, Ian Dees wrote: > On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Emilie Laffray > wrote: > >> >> While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people >> working in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means >> that every one doing an app needs to do some significant work to make sure >> that those new settings are taken into consideration. In the meantime, you >> have effectively broken many applications, which is something which is very >> bad. > > > Not that I agree with the tags or the way that OP went about the change > (I've already reverted the majority of his changes in my area), but the fact > that your applications break when someone changes a tag is a sign that > something larger is wrong with the system than a simple amenity/emergency > tag change. > > The OSM ecosystem has always strongly favored ease of mapping (as opposed > to ease of data consumption), but now that more data consumers are > attempting to use our data maybe it's time to start thinking about how we > can firm things up a little bit to give the data consumers something solid > to work with. > That was my point. We have legacy tags which for better or worse are working right now. This particular change doesn't look good as you are breaking functionalities. Firming up doesn't mean that we suddenly have to change all tags around. As for the issue about data consumers, I believe to be partially a wrong argument; I am myself a corporate user and my main beef was not the taggging system but rather the wiki initially. I ended up using tagwatch to get a better idea of what was used. We have been using OSM for now quite some time and I am still regularly adding new tags. Amusingly enough, I suspect that most people look at tools like tagwatch to know what to map in the end or examples they found somewhere on the map, or presets from editors. The fact is firming up doesn't mean changing drastically everything under the pretense it is not consistent. Any change should be progressive, whether we like it or not. I don't really care the current organization as the system tends to stabilize towards one tag which is usually community based (country based). Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On 30 July 2010 16:26, Ross Scanlon wrote: > > Total time 6 minutes > > Hundreds of hours, yeah right. > > The program I've been talking about uses osm2pgsql and mapnik so I'm well > aware of them. > > If your smart you could probably add the emergency data without having to > totally rerun osm2pgsql. > I think you are missing the point that Brian was making. If the data has to change dramatically, it means one or two man weeks to do the change at work for our engine at work. The change in itself is simple, but that means testing if none were missing, that everything is running fine, regenerating a database earlier than expected which in itself takes a significant amount of time. Testing is something quite important and we have tons of test to make sure that the database is working as expected before we release to production. While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people working in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means that every one doing an app needs to do some significant work to make sure that those new settings are taken into consideration. In the meantime, you have effectively broken many applications, which is something which is very bad. That would go against any kind of rationalisation that you want to do since you would break things quite a bit. It is not the image that we want to be showing to the world. Ultimately, IF it was the right solution, John solution of using double tags might be a solution to lessen the impact. However, I don't like those tags, as they don't really make sense in many cases. Before rushing, we should really evaluate a bit more if they make sense. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
On 30 July 2010 14:34, Peter Körner wrote: > Am 30.07.2010 13:52, schrieb Steve Bennett: > > (Corollary: when another user tells me specifically that they would >> find my changesets easier to navigate if I commented them properly, I >> would re-evaluate. But afaik, no one ever looks at my work, so it >> seems a bit pointless.) >> > > I've subscribed to all changes in my area using OWL [1] and I'm looking > through all Changesets that crosses the area I live & work in. > > Unfortunately OWL does not show the Changeset comment in the RSS items, so > I'll always have to click onto the web link, but I always read what my > co-mappers are writing. > I agree that proper comments can be very good to quickly see what has been going on. I try as hard as possible to separate my tasks in multiple changeset for this reason. But then like Richard Weait, I miss a few :) (I blame JOSM for doing an autocomplete :P ) Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] sotm2010 video stream?
On 15 July 2010 14:16, Sam Vekemans wrote: > Thanks, thats a good reason why it didnt work right. > There was only so much bandwidth going to the hall (from the outside) > so no matter how many 'stream boosters' are setup, its still alot of > volume. > Perhaps it should be on the list for the next SOTM11 ? To make sure > that there is multiple bandwith sources, since Ustream.tv 'could' > become a large part of the audience where remote attendence is > equal/greater to physical attendence. Multiple laptops can be set up > to stream the event live with 'co-hosting'. And tinychat.com can also > be used. (and different languages promoted with translators) :) > Sure we will hire translators next year More seriously, finding volunteer translators is not easy (understatement) and paying one let alone several is very expensive. As for bandwith, it is not cheap either if you really want good speed and some locations may not have the capacity to host our load. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [SOTM] For those who don't know how awesome Ivan Sanchez can be
2010/7/14 Iván Sánchez Ortega > And so, the IvanSanchez fan club is born: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Melaskia > > HAHAHAHAHAHA, yeah yeah, I really need to set that up! Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] What could we do to make this licences discussion more inclusive?
On 14 July 2010 14:05, James Livingston wrote: > > I.e. can the legal advice only be shared among people actually on the > > LWG conference call, and not all OSMF members? > > Who can be on the call - LWG members, any OSMF member, or anyone involved > in the project? Actually, I can't even find how you get on the LWG in the > first place. > > You get on the mailing by asking the phone number and the time of the next conference call. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [SOTM] For those who don't know how awesome Ivan Sanchez can be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjO1S0AYMs4 Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] State Of Country Posters - Deadline 8/07/2010 10AM
Hello, the deadline for posters for State Of Country is on 8/07/2010 10am (tomorrow morning). The poster is A1 vertical. An example can be found at the following link: http://dl.free.fr/mcXHIJPi4 It would be good to have a link for it. You can reply to that email. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 6 July 2010 09:48, Oliver (skobbler) wrote: > > >As I said in my email it's > >straightforward to make plans for the future without needing a "goal". > >These plans can, and should, be based on what's happening, and > >therefore what we plan/expect will happen in the future. > > Absolutely in regards to plans, I just said that it should be triggered and > facilitated by the board to coordinate with other activities like funding, > for which a certain level of planning is a prerequisite rather sooner than > later. > > I do not agree that there doesn't need to be goal or vision. If I interpret > your recent mail to sourceforge correctly you see OpenStreetMap as "host > for > mapping projects". In this case the goal or vision would be something like > to "facilitate and encourage the creation maps for what purposes > whatsoever". Something like this would give people an umbrella and a better > understanding of what OpenStreetMap is about - and especially to > communicate > the project to the outside world. If you would ask ten people today what > openstreetmap is about you would get ten different answers, that is what > you > can also see from this thread. > Hello, That's actually one of the biggest strength of the OSM community to have 10 different visions of what OpenStreetMap is. The way OpenStreetMap has moved so far has been very beneficial to the vast ecosystems that we are now catering for. Everyone is seeing something different from the "map" as a map is something very personal and can be used in so many ways. Does that mean we should stop people doing orienteering map under the pretense that it is adding to much "useless" data? ( http://www.oobrien.com/oom/ ) Does that mean we should not import trees in towns like Girona? ( http://osm.org/go/xu1ff...@- ) Does that mean we have to stop mapping zoos, arboretum, ? Does that mean we have to stop doing humanitarian work too? Should we focus only on streets, streets details, etc... ? Each use of OSM is perfectly valid and no priority over another one. I think we are past the time where streets were the only thing that mattered. While I agree about the need of better communication, I think we should instead show everything we can do with OSM, whether routing, reverse geocoding, geocoding, specialized map rendering (Bikes, Roads, map for the blind, orienteering maps, etc...). OSM isn't just a replacement for TeleAtlas or Navteq. It is something in its own class now. I can understand why we might want to have the world covered in roads and have perfect addressing, but a crowded sourced project doesn't work that way. You can get a software open source project relatively focused (that will never stop people from adding non expected features), but this is not possible in OSM. You can of course try to do Week of France, where you get people to map a specific area, giving thematic for all those hungry mappers wanting to do something; you just can't direct them to do something in particular. Haiti is such an example: not everyone started mapping Haiti suddenly. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Osm.org Routing Demo
On 2 July 2010 14:58, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2010/7/2 Nic Roets : > > I made a demonstration of how the yournavigation.org website can be > > embedded inside osm.org. Check it out: > > > > > http://nroets.dev.openstreetmap.org/demo/?lat=52.32796&lon=5.62046&zoom=15&layers=B000FTFT > > > That's great. I like the integration in the plus, but think that once > this is going into productive mode we should put it into a tab on the > top to make it more visible. Probably there will be a lot of interest > in this feature. > And lots of traffic :) I think it is a good thing that we can test the server right now. It should be give some interesting load number to Nic. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
On 1 July 2010 22:08, Stefan de Konink wrote: > Are there strategic votes pro PD and/or negative to ODbL? > My point of view on the license is very pragmatic. I support the ODbL as it is a continuation and a clarification of the CC-BY-SA. Ideally, a public domain license would be better but we can see how difficult it is to switch from a share alike license to another, so switching to a public domain license would be even more difficult due to the existing terms of CC-BY-SA. In addition, it is clear that people are almost equally split between SA licenses and PD domain, and it would be difficult to achieve any kind of meaningful consensus. It is a highly heated ideological debate which In addition, in my view, the only real change for me in ODbL is the introduction of the concept of produced work, which is likely to increase the use of OSM data by companies and some individuals. The rest is mostly clarification and precision of CC-BY-SA. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
Hello, I am writing to the list to mention that I will be running for the board for the upcoming election for the foundation. After lot of thinking, I have decided that I could potentially contribute to the community in a different way in order to help OSM achieve its goal. I am including my manifesto at the end of that email. Emilie Laffray *OSMF Board 2010* *Introduction* I started getting involved in OpenStreetMap in Automn 2008 where I spent most of my time looking at understanding how it worked before finally joining the site in 2009. My initial interest was to find a free source of geographical data to remove the proprietary data that my company (u-blox) was using. Since I started mapping, I added my hometown in France and did most of the mapping North of Orleans, based on GPS tracks that I did, and mostly on the cadastre (geographical data used for tax purposes) which proved to be a very powerful tool to map France. I am involved in the English and French communities, and active on many international mailing lists. I have also been involved in the Corine Land Cover import in France, where I wrote most of the SQL code to check for overlapping polygons to make sure that the community wouldn't lose polygons for something that was of lower quality. In addition, I have been getting involved with the organization of the State Of The Map 2010 in Gerona, Spain. When I have the time and opportunity, I am also talking about OpenStreetMap (OpenKnowledge Conference 2010, London and SIG La Lettre 2010, Paris) on different topics like data quality and Haiti. Being involved in the State Of The Map conference really gave me the feeling that I could do more for OpenStreetMap, and it is one reason for standing for election. *Statement* I strongly believe that OpenStreetMap needs to communicate better about the different projects that are currently being developed in the different communities. Some projects are very good, but are unfortunately restricted to one community only due to lack of promotion of the tools being developped. In addition, it is clear that some communities would beneficiate from the help of more mature communities in order to help the mapping effort. While English needs to stay the main language, it is a language that not many people are necessarily speaking fluently and it is important that bridges are built to work around those difficulties. *Goals* If I get elected, I would like to push the following points: * Better communication from the Foundation * Better support of community projects * Better support to non English speaking communities * Working towards reducing the barrier of entry to mapping ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Share-A-Like (non-) Verifiability because they are not publicly accessable
On 24 June 2010 09:31, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > Oliver (skobbler) wrote: > >> He shouldn't draw then into the database, as this mixes OSM data and his > >> own data. Why not just use a layer on top of the OSM data? > > > > One of the big advantages of OSM is that you the "drawing tools". An > option > > would be to create a blank database on top of the OSM data by using the > OSM > > tools. > > I think that OSM as a whole - and this is not a legal issue - needs to > improve interoperability. What we're currently seeing is "import mania", > poeple trying to stuff every possible bit of information into OSM > because that's the easiest way for them to use it in conjunction with > OSM data. There is too much geodata in the world for this to be > sustainable - OSM must stick to things that mappers map. > > I hope that it will become gradually easier to mix'n'match OSM with > other data at the rendering stage so that people will not feel compelled > to upload any rubbish to OSM just becasue they want to render it on a map. > > That will then also make it easier for those who wish to create produced > works from several databases, one of them being OSM, without tainting > their private data in the process. > I agree with this statement quite strongly. Once the rendering step is sorted, it should be then easy to mix the data without actually mixing private data and OSM data. Emilie Laffray ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Removing ways in Potlatch
On 21 June 2010 11:32, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: > > > One big problem with any 4th dimensional idea is plate tectonics. I'm > willing to bet that if you were to map how London was before the great fire > of 1666, the coordinates of places won't match their current locations in > WGS84 coordinates. > Yes it is a problem of using WGS84 as it is an absolute set of coordinates as opposed to more relatives set of coordinates. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID
On 3 June 2010 15:38, Serge Wroclawski wrote: > On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:39 AM, Pieren wrote: > > > > > What external applications need from OSM is a persistent ID for > persistent > > objects. If a business moves, then use a yellow page application to find > the > > new address. > > I'm sorry to jump into this thread from hell, but you've touched on a > question that's been unclear to me from the beginning of this > discussion, which is "What does an permanent object mean?" > > A common thing for me to do as a mapper is manually collect POIs while > walking, upload them, and then later, using sources like imagry, get > rid of my nodes and replace them with ways (eg buildings). > > So is the permanent object the node? Is the permanent object the POI? > What if the POI moves? If I tag the public library as a POI node, then > do a building trace, that's one POI- but what if the library moves (as > my local library is planning on doing). Does that permanent object > move with the library, or does it stay with the building? > > The idea behind John's idea is that the permanent UUID is linked to your library. So if your library moves, you need to move the UUID tags to the new building. It is meant to be associated with the "moral" entity like a library, a shop, etc... "Moral entity" might not be the best term but it is close, I think. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Software goes on, brain goes off...
On 1 June 2010 09:39, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > John Smith wrote: > >> > http://searchengineland.com/woman-follows-google-maps-walking-directions-gets-hit-sues-43212 > > > > I wonder if she's eligible for an honourable mention from the darwin > awards? > > After all the brouhaha maybe there's time for some serious thought. > > Without knowing the exact circumstances of that case, try to put > yourself into a situation like this: You are in an unknown city, maybe > even in a foreign city. The roads are laid out differently from what > you're used to. You are under stress for some reason or other, say you > have an appointment and have not had the time to look it up on a map, > you're somewhat lost, insecure, with limited sense of where you are and > where you have to go to. Assume you cannot afford a taxi, or don't even > know how and where to call one. But wait! There's the Blackberry with > "experimental" Google maps on it, and lo and behold, it says your > destination is only 25 minutes away on foot... > > I consider myself to be fairly intelligent and my judgment and > situational awareness are generally ok, but honestly, I think it could > happen to me (if I had a Blackberry). > > The only difference is that I would not sue Google if it happened to me. > But then I don't live in a country where I'm bombarded with like "Have > you been involved in an accident? We may be able to make money from > that, call 0-800-frivolous-solicitors" all the time. > The point raised is interesting as it was raised during a conference recently in France. During the data quality roundtable where I was speaking, there was a question about liability about mapping. It is clearly something where there is no answer right now even for commercial companies. Putting disclaimer is all fine but it may not stop some people. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo Maps to be provided by Nokia
On 25 May 2010 15:12, Ian Dees wrote: > > > From my recollection, Yahoo never had its own data in the same way that > Google has its own data. Yahoo has always had the NAVTEQ and TeleAtlas > attribution on its road maps base layer (except for the areas where they > directly use OSM data (and attribute us)). > Yes, Yahoo never had any data. They always used Navteq. On that front, nothing has changed. Google only started to get their own data recently but previously they were using both Navteq and TA. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigation Debug Map Style Available
On 24 May 2010 11:33, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > My personal favourite would be to separate the concept of a country from > its geographic (and some other) properties. > > Currently people will create a relation named "France" which has all the > border lines, or border sub-relations, as members, and tags like > name:de=Frankreich and all that. > > But I'm tempted to throw in another level: Have one relation that > represents the country of France. Here you can enter all the names and > link to the Wikipedia article for France and so on. Something that > represents the city of Paris - whether that's a simple node or maybe a > relation too - cold be a member of the France relation with the role > "capital". > > Then have another relation that models the borders of France, and make > this a member of the France relation (role="borders" or so). > > Your relation, which has lots of routing/navigation parameters for > France, could also be a member of that same France relation > (role="highway_code" or something). > > And so on. Relations galore! I know some people across the channel will > grumble but they'll get used to relations some time too. > +1 I think it is the way it should be. Geographical information should be separated from data whenever possible. I think Poland and Spain relations are interesting with the way they create a hierarchy of subarea but mixing information at the same level which is plainly wrong according to me. Separating the two layers would have avoid some problems. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historical Mapping Examples?
On 19 May 2010 12:41, Kate Chapman wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm attending THATCamp this weekend and would like to talk about > OpenStreetMap. THATCamp is an unconference specifically related to > technology applied to the digital humanities. One area I thought > would be of interest would be historical related areas in > OpenStreetMap. I was thinking areas with historic value, rather than > areas that are mapped and no longer exist. > > An example near me would be Arlington National Cemetery: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.87964&lon=-77.06507&zoom=16&layers=B000FTFT > > Anyway if you have an examples along that vein that you think are > particularly good please send them along. > > I think the Mt Saint Michel in France might be a good example: http://osm.org/go/erms5fnKh-- Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flash and open source
+1 On 14 May 2010 18:10, "Richard Fairhurst" wrote: Occasionally the subject of Flash and free software comes up here in relation to Potlatch. I would encourage people to sign the petition at http://openplayer.net/ encouraging Adobe to make the Flash Player open source. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Map internationalisation
On 30/04/2010 08:36, pavithran wrote: > Hi all , > > I would like to display a Telugu name for some places. Telugu is an > Indian language with ISO code 'te' . I tried keeping name:te=ఖమ్మం > I mean in english name:te=citynameintelugu > This is not getting displayed in local language . Is this due to some > rendering issue ? I am asking cause I could see other languages like > Tamil,hindi and Kannada (neighbouring states ) getting properly rendered. The map is rendering elements only when they are in name. You would need to specify name:te for rendering to make use of the name:te. If the Telugu is the established name for this area, I would put the text in name in addition to name:te. Emilie Laffray signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] CrisisCampParis/OSM?
On 14 April 2010 13:13, Kate Chapman wrote: > Hi All, > > Is anyone from OSM attending CrisisCamp Paris? > http://barcamp.org/CrisisCamp-Paris > > I see one person listed as OSM already signed up. > > I thought I'd mention the event because there are lots of people in > the CrisisCamp community that want to learn how to contribute to OSM > before there is a disaster. Some talk has revolved around mapping > high risk places before something happens. > > Anyway, thought I'd mention it is on the 24th of April. > > (if someone would translate this and put it on the France talk list > that would be must appreciated) > I think many of us on the French talk list are already aware of this events with at least a few people mentioning they will be there. I will nonetheless transmit it to the French Talk list. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Is this relation really closed?
On 31/03/2010 18:02, James Le Cuirot wrote: > > Thanks for your quick reply, Emilie. No doubt that is the culprit. I > have found a PostGIS function that can clean such problems but it would > be nice to fix the source data. I'm totally new to OSM and I live > nowhere near this area. It seems like a simple enough fix though. Would > it be considered rude for me to fix this? If the problem was that > obvious, wouldn't someone else have fixed it already? > Hello, what you will find in PostGIS will fix the issue that you are having in your import of the database, but not in the raw data. It would actually consider rude not to fix it actually :) The problem was not obvious. As you have seen yourself, one of the relation tool didn't pick the issue. I don't think anyone is running a verification of all relations in general. You are more than welcome to try, and do not hesitate to ask for help if you don't see what the problem is. I am sure that plenty of people will be offering support if you need it. It is not uncommon for me to fix errors in places like Japan. There are errors that can be fixed just by looking at the geometry. It is the beauty of collaborative work, everyone can fix it. Emilie Laffray signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Fwd: Is this relation really closed?
On 31 March 2010 17:20, James Le Cuirot wrote: > Hello, > > I'm trying to turn the English (ceremonial) county boundaries from > OSM into MultiPolygons for use with PostGIS. The last step of the > process is... > > ST_Multi(ST_BuildArea(multi-line string)) > > ST_BuildArea returns NULL if the given lines do not form a Polygon or > MultiPolygon. This has worked fine for the majority of counties, even > MultiPolygons like Cumbria and Polygons with holes like Greater London. > However, some simple ones such as Kent and County Durham return NULL > here and I cannot figure out why. > > Here's the relation for Kent. > > http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/relation/88071/full > > The relationship analyzer says that the segment for Kent is closed. > > > http://betaplace.emaitie.de/webapps.relation-analyzer/analyze.jsp?relationId=88071 > > Am I misunderstanding what it means by closed? Looking at the map, it > appears to be closed. I have called the PostGIS functions ST_IsRing and > ST_IsClosed on the MultiLineString and they return false. Am I making a > bad assumption here? > > I'll be in a lot of trouble if I don't figure this out soon so some > help would be greatly appreciated. :) > You can use http://analyser.openstreetmap.fr By entering the relation, you can see that there are 3 self intersections on the coast. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] www.openaddresses.org BETA launched
On 30 March 2010 16:13, Richard Weait wrote: > 2010/3/30 Cédric MOULLET : > > Hi, > > It's not Cédric's project, but the project of a community (composed of > > individuals, companies and universities) initiated in 2007 ;-) (see press > > release: > > > http://code.google.com/p/openaddresses/wiki/Release_BETA_PressRelease#EN:_OpenAddresses_.org,_a_community_web_site_for_the_management > ). > > But, I still can answer. > > Dear Cédric, > > OpenAdresses is an interesting idea as a simpler interface for address > data. The intent to synchronize the data with OSM makes sense. > > The current situation with OSM data cc-by-sa and OpenAddresses data > cc-by seems broken. Shouldn't the licenses be synchronized so that > the data can be synchronized? > > OpenAddresses is failing the share-alike obligation. Do you > understand that some will see that as a serious problem. This issue > will persist when OSM upgrades to the ODbL license. > > Can you bring this problem to the attention of the OpenAddresses > community and resolve it? > > Hello, Cedric has replied on the French mailing list. He is aware of the licence issue and he is going to be changing the licence to be compatible with OSM. I am sure it will happen very soon as he is very responsive. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automatically adding open wireless access points
On 25 March 2010 15:09, Gaz Davidson wrote: > Hi > > I've just got a Google Nexus One and was thinking about making an > application for it. The first thing that came to mind was a minimalist > app to add open WiFi networks as points of interest. I imagine it > working something like this: > > The app continuously scans nearby WiFi access points. When one is > found, it connects to it and posts the GPS position, accuracy, WiFi > strength, (E)SSID, connection type and recent user movement to a > script running on the web. If it doesn't get the correct response then > that access point is blacklisted (avoiding paid but open networks > which redirect to a login page). The data is released into the public > domain (or maybe CC:SA?) and at some later time the positions of all > known access points can be estimated and imported into OSM's database. > Some clever rules could be used to avoid moving hotspots which have > been moved manually, or to delete ones which haven't been seen in a > long time. > > I know that there are already companies and communities doing this, > but I can't find anyone with data that's free enough for my liking. > There are also objections to adding wifi hotspots on the wiki, but no > sensible ones as far as I can see. Open wireless access points are > useful to me, I work away from home and often need to find the closest > place with free wifi so I don't use all my data allowance when > downloading large files. > > Thoughts, objections or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! > Hello, have you looked at a project called openbmap? Essentially a few months ago, I suggested to those people to merge their data in OSM. However, it became clear they didn't want it to be done, as there was plenty of problem to do so, and I accepted the fact that it belongs in something other than OSM. In addition, positioning a wifi signal is not that trivial. OSM is about mapping physical objects and I don't think a wifi router qualify for this. Else I would like to ask permission to go and check your wifi router at your home, so I can be sure of the coordinates. Anyway, check other projects that might be more adapted for this. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Moving to Java 1.6 not so easy to swallow
On 25 March 2010 20:05, Claudius wrote: > Am 25.03.2010 19:31, Aun Johnsen: > > For me it would be appreciated that JOSM > > was split into another branch, so that we can have JOSM j5 and JOSM j6 > > side by side. > > Actually that's exactly what the JOSM devs announced: > After the JOSM j5 stable version is finished the j6 development > continues and if anyone cares he can do backports of all the > developments. But none of the current JOSM developers wants to do it and > most probably it will be impossible to backport some of the new features > because they are only possible with j6 without rewriting most parts of > the app. > > Besides I think there's a lot of fuzz about this move: If you check the > editor tags in the latest changelog you can see that roughly 50% are > using JOSM 2055. That's a 7 month old version and was issued stable back > then. Even without the updated relation support many users seem to be > able to get along very well. I think that 3155 will be useful at least > the same amount of time. And if you miss something in winter 2010 you > can switch to merkaartor or Mapzen 2.0 or OSM2Go or iLoe or OpenMaps or > > > In the case of Christian, his main reason for using JOSM like most French people actually is a specific plugin to access the Cadastre, which has been a major source of mapping in France. Anyway, I am sure that in the end a good enough solution will be found for everyone. OpenJDK is potentially a way. Porting the plugin to different editor like Merkaator or Potlatch2 might be a solution. Does Merkaator has a plugin mechanism which would allow us to add the tool? Now on the debate itself, I am a programmer, so I can understand the point of upgrading. Just my 2 cents to explain why Christian is so upset. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Motion sensors for navigation
On 23 March 2010 13:29, John Smith wrote: > On 23 March 2010 22:07, Emilie Laffray wrote: > > They might when they have some working prototypes :) I can't imagine the > > calculation problem that they would be getting using 6 motions sensors (3 > > accelerometers, and 3 gyroscopes). > > There is quite a few mobile phones with chips that have all 6 inputs... > Mobile phones with gyroscopes?? I didn't realize mobile phones were having so many complex and expensive pieces in them. Most phones have now accelerometers with 3 Axis enabled; I just didn't realize some had gyroscopes too. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Motion sensors for navigation
On 23 March 2010 12:56, David Earl wrote: > I thought this was an interesting little article: > > http://bit.ly/alE861 > > ( > > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20527524.500-motion-sensors-could-track-troops-when-gps-cuts-out.html > ) > > I wonder whether they might be interested in offering us some units for > testing? > They might when they have some working prototypes :) I can't imagine the calculation problem that they would be getting using 6 motions sensors (3 accelerometers, and 3 gyroscopes). Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
Hello, I don't want to break enthusiasm from anyone but the deadline was the 12th of March, meaning that we are 4 days behind the deadline. Has anyone contacted Google for an extension? I don't mind seeing great ideas discussed here, on the contrary, but then, we have to keep in mind that they won't be for a GSOC unless someone contacted Google. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM <3 GeoNames <=> GeoNames <3 OSM =)
On 5 March 2010 16:28, elf Pavlik wrote: > Hello Everyone! > > I just asked on GeoNames mailing list why they don't use OSM for their > map functionality. > http://groups.google.com/group/geonames/t/ec02877f850cf6c7 > > A person named Marc responded that OSM share-alike license is too > restrictive. Please check link above for his explanation. > > Could someone explain me how relation between GeoNames and OSM looks at > this moment? According to the OSM wiki you use GeoNames for your search > functionality. I think it would be nice if GeoNames and other services > could use OSM for their mapping functionality. > > I think GeoNames and OSM have complementary service to each other and I > would really like to see them in good relation =) > I don't think so. Geonames and OSM are very different. Geonames is storing only points most of which are actually coming from the Geonames database: http://geonames.nga.mil/ggmaviewer/MainFrameSet.asp It means that potentially most of Geonames data is also available to us. Having points is not terribly useful in many cases. In addition, Geonames has been considered unsafe for imports: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Geonames since it is not clear where the source data was freely available or not in the first place, making less than useful in OSM where you make sure that we can use data. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Xynthia storm/ flooding in france kills over 50
2010/3/1 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com > That is what I thought as well, France will be able to manage that better > than anyone else. > > My idea is that with the charter activation, highres photos become > available to the public domain and > therefore to osm. > In the current case, it is very unlikely that there would be a charter activation. It is nowhere as bad as some of the recent disasters like Haiti, Chile, etc . You would be close to the tsunami that happened in Southern Japan: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35624070 Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Are Yahoo street maps legal? (as JOSM WMS layer via desktopwms)
On 26 February 2010 11:03, Valent Turkovic wrote: > Hi, > I recently discovered destopwms [1] and it is a great utility that > enables OSM, Yahoo and Google maps as WMS layers in JOSM. > > OSM layer is great because it is easier to map when can see the map at > the same time. > > I know that Google Map layer is not legal to use and draw upon it but > is Yahoo maps legal to use? > I know that Yahoo satelite wms layer is legal to use in OSM but I'm > asking about Yahoo map with streets. > > [1] http://gis.hsr.ch/wiki/DesktopWMS > I doubt that tracing on anything other than satellite layers in Yahoo is legal. The map information that Yahoo is using is coming from Navteq. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 25 February 2010 13:00, John Smith wrote: > On 25 February 2010 22:23, Emilie Laffray > wrote: > > A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the > new > > feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except > for > > I think you are over playing this, the openlayers JS can already do a > lot in existing browsers and even IE, and if we're only talking about > a simple browser it doesn't need all the features that exist in JOSM > etc. > Sorry in advance for the mixed answers. I might over play it but I used to do some serious coding in JS for some time, and browser compatibilities and limitations were all too evident at the time. I suspect it has changed quite a bit with the new Javascript engines out there, but I suspect that some of the more advanced functionalities that you might need might have some problem in the end due to memory and cpu constraints. Someone mentioned Cartagen which is very interesting but still slow for a tool. Again, I don't mind being proven wrong. Ian's code could be a starting point for some interested coders. We have to think also in terms of functionalities and target platforms. As Andrezj said, we could use SVG which would solve a few problems, since at least SVG can be manipulated through DOM api. We could use libraries like openlayer which would provide us with a good starting point. I might be wrong but it all depends on what you want to do, how fast, how complete, etc... Also, I would like to point out that Richard at some point mentioned that a HTML 5 client for Potlatch would be nice. Action Script is an ECMAscript based language. Of course, we would be missing libraries from Flash, but adapting part of the code would be possible for someone that is technically able. Anyway, in any case, I don't want to discourage anyone from working on this. It would be quite interesting to see it happen. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On 25 February 2010 12:14, Gaz Davidson wrote: > If there are plans for a new web editor, can avoiding Flash be part of > the considerations? > > I would like to know what you suggest in order to replace Flash. While I dislike Flash quite a bit, I fail to see what you could actually use to replace it: - Javascript with HTML 5 - Silverlight - Java applets A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the new feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except for cutting edge versions, and except IE). A silverlight implementation is certainly possible too, but the plugin is not widely spread among the different browsers and the different operating systems. You could of course code in Java and create a Java applet, but honestly I fail to see how it would be acceptable to many people. I might miss other possibilities but those are the main alternative to Flash and for many reason none are really a good alternative yet to Flash. If you have a good idea on how to crack the Flash problem, please let us know. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Are we strict enough with imports ?
On 11 February 2010 12:53, Jean-Guilhem Cailton wrote: > Emilie Laffray a écrit : > > > > On 11 February 2010 12:24, Frederik Ramm wrote: > >> [...] >> > > > > Ok, but please do not forget that in crisis situations (e.g. Haiti), there > could be people dying while the "deliberation" would be taking place... > I am not. Haiti or other potential crisis are different since you know that many people will be working on correcting the issues as opposed to imports that are happening because someone just found some data. This case is the one we are talking about, as the data is not going to be worked on massively. The problem is about maintenance in the end. Emilie Laffray ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Are we strict enough with imports ?
On 11 February 2010 12:24, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > (I'm hijacking this thread which Nic started about legalities of imports > on legal-talk, and moving over to talk) > > Nic Roets wrote: > > My suggestion is that we should have a fixed, but simple procedure for > > users who import data: > > I think that every import should start with a deliberation on whether to > import *at all*. > > Currently, I have the impression that many people are very trigger-happy > when it comes to importing data. I believe that is running the risk of > making OSM into one giant data rubbish dump. > > The old-style GIS community is currently working on several projects > that collect what they call "metadata" - basically, because they know > that there are so many different people with so many different data > sets, they are working on ways to describe these datasets in a way that > hopefully enables intelligent clients to present data retrieved from all > of them as one coherent data set. > > This is of course extremely difficult and introduces many problems that > one does not have when using just one huge database instead of thousands > of different databases. But since many datasets are not static, you > cannot simply grab them and pour them into one large database and be happy. > > What does this mean for our data imports? > > Data that is externally "owned" and maintained should not be imported, > with the following exceptions: > > * if the data is so important for us (usu. as the foundation for other > crowdsourced stuff) that we'd rather have and outdated version of it in > OSM than nothing at all; > * if we are confident that we, the OSM community, will do a better, more > reliable, more thorough, and more timely job in updating the information > than the original owner (this includes cases where the original owner > has ceased maintenance); > * if he are confident that we can easily synchronize our database with > any updates made by the original owner to his data set. > > In all other cases it would be *much* more desirable to establish better > mechanisms of merging OSM data with that other data in preparation for > map drawing etc., rather than pulling it all in and having it rot. > > I would very much like to develop a kind of "litmus test" for imports, > and get the message across that not every import is a good import (even > if legally spotless). Today, even newcomers to OSM sometimes seem > hell-bent on importing large quantities of data just because they can. I > would like to remind people that OSM has a very lively culture of > surveying data - and I'd rather have 1 sq km surveyed by a newbie than > 100 sq km imported. > +1 globally. Emilie Laffray ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cyclone batters Cook Islands - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
On 11 February 2010 09:11, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com < jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Here is an interactive map: > http://dma.jrc.it/map/?application=GDACS&bbox=-172.5:-30.8:-152.5:-10.8 > > Here is the KML layer : > http://www.gdacs.org/xml/install_gdacs.kml > which is a reference to : > http://www.gdacs.org/map/kml.asp > > can be converted to osm : > gpsbabel -i kml -f kml.asp -o osm -F pat.osm > > And the file looks like this: > http://img268.imageshack.us/i/screenshot3mt.png/ > > The osm file is here: > http://filebin.ca/uwvphw/pat.osm > Hello, I don't want to pour on your enthusiasm but the KML data is not that useful in the first place (cyclone information). There is no point in rushing in importing data that we haven't at least evaluated a bit. It is not because it is technically feasible that it is reasonable to do so. Leaving an osm file available somewhere is just a potential disaster with people loading it without checking what the information is all about. We should not confuse urgency and rushing. Furthermore, even if the information was useful in OSM, it is not clear what the licence is in the first place. I am all for helping mapping areas that really need help, as Haiti has proved it (the work is absolutely wonderful). But, if we rush on the first data available, we will be offering a disservice in the end, with no use to anyone, since the work has been precipitated. We have to apply some judgement in the end in order to do a very good job. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Use of OSM data by the military and/or intelligence services
On 4 February 2010 14:49, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > AFAIK our current license offers our data for everyone who attributes > correctly, but I'd like to raise the issue of malicious use of our > data by governmental organisations. What do you thing about setting up > a paragraph that prohibits the use of our data for military and > intelligence services? Not that I'm hoping this would seriously > prevent the use in case we have useful data to them, but still it > would be a statement. > I don't see why we would prevent anyone from accessing our maps. We are a free community; I don't see the point of limiting the use of our data. We can't be free selectively. In addition, I don't see how such a clause would actually be useful at all. Even if you could prove that they are using the data in opposition of the clause, how are you going to sue them? I think you will be given the national interest talk and you won't be allowed to do anything. Please note that it is not an endorsement for the military or the intelligence services. Emilie Laffray ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Playing tagging democracy: standard building process and tag unifying towards it
On 3 February 2010 15:38, Dave F. wrote: > John Smith wrote: > > No but it's a carrot, most people most of the time are only going to > > map what they can see turn up on mapnik. > > > This point is correct, & to bring the thread back to on topic, OSM is > best promoted, not by word of mouth as some have said, but by > visualization & mouth. > > People will tell their friends about OSM when they see a working map not > when present with a long list of XML data. > > This won't happen if none of the map creators are taking the data > because they think it's crap. > I kind of disagree with you on that one. People will use data because it is there. I know several people in commercial environment who don't care that much about how the map is looking. They care about what the database is full of, like administrative boundaries, town location, POI etc You are just taking one point of view, but yours is not unique. I am using the data for commercial use, and I couldn't care less about a map rendering. I can recognize the fact that the data is much richer even if I don't see a point being rendered. It all depends on what you are trying to do with the data. If you want beautiful map, then have a look at some of the rendering that companies like Cloudmade have. They provide some very nice map. I have been promoting OSM not by its map (even though showing the map help) but for its data. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
On 3 February 2010 15:32, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > > Whether the map use is to make money or not , if these ventures aren't > > taking the data because it's unusable then OSM has to be considered to > > be failing. Again, disillusioning. > > I think the single most important reason why some ventures don't, and > will not, use OSM data is not the quality but the license. ODbL or no ODbL. > +1 Indeed, for many companies, the only good data is free (as in beer) data, that you don't need to attribute, and that you don't need to contribute back. Anything short of that is too much. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM10 - What do you want to hear?
On 29 January 2010 17:13, Ed Loach wrote: > > Please move Girona near South East Asia, so that I can attend > > :) > > I started dragging the node in the right direction, but it was > taking so long I closed Potlatch without saving the session... > > It is fine if you were running in Live mode. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Fwd: RE: [Fwd: [Fwd: [URGENT] person trapped in a rubble + 350 people starving in Guibert off of Kenscoff 67. From :Re: [CrisisMappers] KML of food/water alerts from SMS's]]]
On 28 January 2010 11:27, Ed Loach wrote: > JGC: > > > Could anyone explain where the "Guibert" closest to > > Kenscoff (that I also put on ose.petschge.de) comes > > from in OSM map ? I can't find an object corresponding > > to it, nor its source. > > If you mean the one returned in the namefinder in the Geonames > section, it isn't in OSM, but is in Geonames. > http://www.geonames.org/3724061/guibert.html > > The Haiti 1:50k maps surround that point by Obléon, Grand Place and > Carrefour Beraque and I think Grand Place is the one most likely to > refer to Guibert, though of the three is the only one of those three > not currently added from the 1:50k maps (Haiti-tlm-50) > > Perhaps someone else can say whether we can add geonames.org place > details (CC-BY) to OSM? > geonames.org is not necessarily a good source of data. Most points come from the US government in the first place: http://earth-info.nga.mil/gns/html/index.html . I thought it was previously evaluated as not good enough for OSM. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Fwd: Re: [CrisisMappers] Re: New Imagery in Google Earth file]
It is unlikely we will have access to it since it has a NC clause on it. Emilie Laffray 2010/1/20 Jean-Guilhem Cailton > Forwarding to OSM-talk because I am subscribed to the 2 lists with 2 > different addresses, which make cc: not working. :( > > Message original Sujet : Re: [CrisisMappers] Re: New > Imagery in Google Earth file Date : Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:29:41 +0100 De : > Jean-Guilhem CailtonPour : > crisismapp...@googlegroups.com, csad...@google.com Copie à : OSM-talk >Références : > > <958520c7-5aaa-4401-aaf4-c689eedf8...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com><958520c7-5aaa-4401-aaf4-c689eedf8...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> > > Hi, > > Please forgive my naive question : is OSM allowed to use this imagery > for tracing ? > > Thank you very much > > Jean-Guilhem Cailton > > > Christiaan Adams a écrit : > > High Resolution (15cm) imagery is now available for Port-au-Prince > > (acquired 17 Jan). > > > > We have burned it into the basemap in Google Maps. > > For more info, check out this blog post (and be sure to look at the > > Google Maps link it contains): > > http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-imagery-of-port-au-prince.html > > > > > We have created a KML version, which is now available through our > > master KML file: > > http://mw1.google.com/mw-earth-vectordb/haiti/Haiti-Earthquake-nl.kml > > > > We are also making most of this imagery available for download, for > > non-commercial use related to emergency relief. See this page for > > details: > > http://www.google.com/relief/haitiearthquake/imagery.html > > The footprints of the images available for download are also available > > as one of the selections in the KML file linked above. > > > > We hope to get this imagery into the Google Earth basemap in the > > morning, along with other recent Haiti imagery in Google Earth's > > historical imagery tool. > > > > Let me know if you have any questions or problems accessing these > > resources. Any feedback on how they are being used would also be > > appreciated, and would help us better focus our efforts in the > > future. > > > > Thanks and keep up the amazing work everyone! > > -Christiaan > > > > - > > Christiaan Adams > > Google Earth Outreach > > Google Crisis Response > > csad...@google.com > > - > > > > On Jan 19, 3:23 pm, Christiaan Adams > > wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> We just updated our KML with better GeoEye data (broader coverage and > >> ortho-rectified), as well as new DigitalGlobe and NOAA data. > >> Refresh your network link, or re-load it from > >> here:http://mw1.google.com/mw-earth-vectordb/haiti/Haiti-Earthquake-nl.kml > >> > > > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Call for SOTM Sponsors
2010/1/19 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com > We are interested in hosting SOTM 2011 in Kosovo. > Would that even be possible? > > Before thinking of SOTM 2011, we should concentrate on getting the 2010 edition! I am sure if you come up with an interesting bid for Kosovo, you will have all the chance to be hosting it in 2011. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd
On 15/01/2010 19:43, Paul Houle wrote: > Maybe I've missed it but is there any page that's easily accessable > to OSM outsiders about the Haiti mapping efforts? This page is full of > info but intimidating: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Mapping_the_earthquake_area > > I'd really like to see something that looks more like a press release... > +1 I have been trying to get people to pick up this page to raise awareness on how they can help, but a better page would help for the neophyte. Emilie Laffray signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Public notary (Map feature POI proposal)
2010/1/12 Simone Cortesi > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 20:47, David Paleino wrote: > > In Italy JPs are "something like a judge", and notary has the same > > meaning as the one Serge pointed out for France (i.e. part of the > > Judiciary, not an attorney, but needed for legally binding things) > > Being this OSM all about geodata, and being the fact that a public > notary is located somewhere inside a given country. > > Wouldnt this suffice to explain to the user which kind of service is > being offered there? > > i.e. if i see a notary in france i will automatically know this is > different from the australian one > > likewise this goes on for bars and newspaper kiosks around the world > (they do not sell same products all over the world) > I agree completely with you here. I think it would be foolish to assume that because the tag is the same that it is identical across the world. Whether we like or not, there will be always some interpretation on what a tag means based on the country where it is. In the case of the notary, I will not go and see one in Italy without knowing a bit of the legal system in Italy. It is a fallacious argument to say that because the tag is the same, it should be the same thing and therefore could result in confusion. Information is always context sensitive. I believe that if you are dumb enough to take tags at the first degree, you deserve what happens to you. We always talk about normalizing data, but people always seems to forget that context is important in the end. Having context tables for some tags will always be necessary in the end. I am glad to see for example such a table for administrative boundaries, as the administrative layers across the world are very different. At least with the table, I can understand what is going on. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] ourFootPrints.de data import has started
2010/1/11 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason > > FWIW I tried just feeding the 16MB .osm file (it got a bit smaller) to > bulk_upload.py. It reached the 50k node limit on the changeset and > then died: > >http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2766 > > Time to check out some of the splitting tools... > > There is a sax version of the bulk_upload.py in the SVN repository. It automatically breaks the data in different changesets. The only constraint is that you need an unique id for each elements (nodes, ways, relations) which may not be always the case. For example, you might have a way with an id of -1 and a relation of -1. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] ourFootPrints.de data import has started
2010/1/11 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason > ourFootPrints.de > (http://www.ourfootprints.de/gps/mapsource-island_e.html) is an effort > started in 2004 to create a free of change Garmin map of Iceland, for > the past year I've been in contact with Thomas Ransberger who runs the > project about getting his data into OpenStreetMap since we share > similar goals. > > A few days ago Thomas provided me with GPX traces & a dump of the road > data on his map to start with. That's 22MB of GPX traces and a 29MB > .osm file (the whole of Iceland.osm is around 67MB by comparison). > I've already imported the GPX data under a dedicated user account with > the .osm data to follow soon. > > The import user: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ourFootPrints%20import/traces > The raw data: http://github.com/avar/ourfootprints-data > Import scripts / documentation: > http://github.com/avar/ourfootprints-import > > Here's the 29MB .osm file which is approximately what I'll be > importing, after I've fixed up the source tags / highway tags etc.: > >!! DO NOT UPLOAD THIS > http://v.nix.is/~avar/noindex/ourfootprints/ofp.osm.bz2<http://v.nix.is/%7Eavar/noindex/ourfootprints/ofp.osm.bz2>!! > > The plan is basically to upload that as-is except change the tags to > be e.g. ourfootprints:highway=residential instead of > highway=residential. That way a lot of duplicate data will be added to > the database temporarily until we manually review & sort it out by > either deleting it, merging it in to have highway=residential. Most of > the data users like the renderers, mkgmap etc. won't notice since the > roads will use previously unused tags. > Hello, Someone in the French community recently used some basic SQL command with Postgis to eliminate obvious merge problem. It worked better than we expected. Maybe you would be interested. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/BMO contains most of the information about how the differential import was done. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] openmaps.eu
2010/1/5 andrzej zaborowski > > So I don't have any answer to the question of how to join forces with > openmaps.eu. There's one practical suggestion that I'd like to make: > Unless they remove their NC (Non Commercial Use Only) clause, colloborating with openmaps.eu is a non sequitur. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] revert changesets??
2009/12/18 John Smith > > I thought China wasn't preventing mapping, but trying to extort (more) > money out of mapping companies? > > They prevent mapping from individuals who are mostly likely using a grey market GPS, returning real latitude, longitude value. China is using officially an algorithm to fudge the lat long in official GPS requirement to prevent people from knowing precisely the location. The only way for a mapping company to have their map certified is by paying the chinese government to fudge their data with their magical algorithm into a single room. So essentially you are right. I have been told that the practice was initially a way to protect themselves, but it has been becoming a huge money making scheme now. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion: fallback tag
2009/12/17 Steve Bennett > >In the end, OSM is a database, and how you are rendering a map is > something accessory, as "everyone" can set up the rendering the way they > want. It is the greatest strength of OSM that you can choose what kind of > rendering you can do. I think the map should deemphasized at some point from > the main site as more and more people want custom rendering. > > I guess I will have to investigate this further, but that's really not at > all how I see OSM, and not how I think the public perceives it. The diehards > on this list may all have their own renderers set up at home, but that's > rare. For most people, the mapnik view *is* OSM, and switching it off would > be dumping OSM's biggest selling point. The world has very much moved to a > cloud model, whereas what you're proposing (download the data, render it > using an offline client) is exactly the opposite of that. I just don't see > that approach gaining traction any more. If anything, I would have thought > you'd put more effort into custom rendering on the server, like cloudmade > does. > > Of course, I could be completely wrong. That would at least explain why I > find the response of "make your own stylesheet" so jarring to my original > problem statement. > > I understand your point. But I disagree about the directions where things are going. Some things are going for the cloud, some will stay on your desktop. Don't necessarily believe the hype and take it with a pinch of salt. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point, people are coming up with custom cloud renderers. But for the time being, if you want a custom rendering you will be using your own pc or server. If you are interested in a relatively simple renderer, you could look at http://igorbrejc.net/kosmoshome . This should help you and should not be too difficult to use. I look forward to some offline rendering using Halcyon personally. Being able to tweak a map just by playing with some css sounds very appealing to me. I agree that for many people the map is the focal point of OSM but again, we have already two major renderers on the main site. I think it sends a clear signal that we are not just about one map but several. In the end, the power of OSM is what you do with it. The map part is not a major interest to me, but I might be one of the exception. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion: fallback tag
2009/12/17 Steve Bennett > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:47 AM, John Smith wrote: > >> Or if he were really serious about this he'd come up with a suitable >> > > Was this mailing list always like this? I don't get it. I make a sincere > suggestion for a tag that I think would be useful, and just look at the > response. Where does it all come from? Someone smacks down the OP and two > others immediately chime in with "+1". Am I out of line brainstorming here? > Why the snide replies? Why so much negativity? > I don't think there is so much negativity in itself. It is just that everyone is very opiniated about things should be done. I thought that Frederik did an initial thoughtful email to your proposal, trying to explain why your proposal wouldn't work. It is fine to brainstorm but not everything that is thought about is necessarily worth investigating or debating more. More precisely, the fallback that you are proposing would be relatively heavy both on code and people. If you don't want to be heavy on people, you would have to maintain an equivalence list somewhere in the software, or elsewhere that you have to maintain. I don't see the point of adding such a mechanism. If you want something to be rendered, you may want to spend sometime looking at ways of contributing to the rendering. There was a recent post about how to modify osmarender at some point. Maybe it would be worth looking at it, and modify code accordingly if you feel strongly about a feature that should appear. In the end, OSM is a database, and how you are rendering a map is something accessory, as "everyone" can set up the rendering the way they want. It is the greatest strength of OSM that you can choose what kind of rendering you can do. I think the map should deemphasized at some point from the main site as more and more people want custom rendering. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda
2009/12/17 Jean-Marc Liotier > The quality of OpenStreetMap's work speaks for itself, but it seems that > we need to speak about it too - especially now that Google is attempting > to to appear as holding the moral high ground by using terms such as > "citizen cartographer" that they rob of its meaning by conveniently > forgetting to mention the license under which the contributed data is > held. But in the eye of the public, the $5 UNICEF donation to the > home country of the winner of the Map Maker Global Challenge lets them > appear as charitable citizens. We need to explain why it is a fraud, so > that motivated aspiring cartographers are not tempted to give away their > souls for free. I could understand that they sell it, but giving it to > Google for free is a bit too much - we must tell them. I'm pretty sure > that good geographic data available to anyone for free will do more for > the least developed communities than a 50k USD grant. > > I answered this piece at ReadWriteWeb and I suggest that you keep an eye > for opportunities to answer this sort of propaganda against libre mapping : > > http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_announces_map_contest_50k_for_adding_school.php#comment-175013 > You can add this link in terms of moral high ground: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/climate-tools-for-copenhagen-and-beyond.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches
2009/12/15 Frederik Ramm > Hi, > > Chris Hill wrote: > > You've had enough of it!!! After nearly fifty emails about how to tag a > > ditch with a bridge over it in a few hours I think everyone in OSM has > > had enough of it. > > Yes, I thought so too. Maybe we could ditch this discussion? > Damn you stole my lame joke. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Fwd: Re: Why PD is not better for business
On 11/12/2009 16:16, Peter Childs wrote: > > Hmm the Fork is strong? in the case of X XFree86 (ie the original) is > almost unknown now. and the Fork meant many years of little or no > development on what is the main graphics sub-system used across > multiple operating systems. > In the case of XFree86, everybody abandoned it very quickly because of the way they did the licence change. As soon as it was forked, some major distribution switched to X.Org. XFree86 was already pretty much dead due to the way they restricted development. I don't know where you have seen no development. One of the first thing that X.Org was to unmerge all the unmaintanable libraries that were merged into the X windowing system. It came very quickly. There were lots of development but none or little on XFree86. Honestly, this is one of the worse example you could have chosen. The fork happened in early 2004 and by september 2004, you already had two releases. Lots of projects that were stuck suddenly could be implemented like compositing. Emilie Laffray signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Fwd: Re: Why PD is not better for business
2009/12/11 Peter Childs > > Hmm Maybe these have not all died but the split did cause serious damage. > > X (You now have a choice of X.org and XFree86), The split caused a > long halt in development and the original is hardly used now, only the > branch > > Joomla/Mambo > > I'm sure there are others > > Hum, the examples you are choosing are interesting but not for the reason you think. Please note that I am not advocating a fork far from it. In the two cases you cited, the fork is actually very strong, and there was very little damage. For X.org, I don't see where there was an halt in development. The first X.Org release came shortly after the split. In addition, a lot of people would tell you that the split happened because partly the development was getting nowhere, due the number of contributors being restricted to only a few people who didn't want to see much change. The license was just the extra thing that made the community fork the code. For Joomla/Mambo, you can see that Joomla never really stopped. Mambo was commercial and was ignoring the community, but most of the main devs were the one who actually forked the code. The main reason for the fork was a foundation take over. I would say that in both case the fork was a good thing. If you want an interesting example, you can always the case of Compiz, which had been forked and then remerged. I don't think we are near any of those scenarios for plenty of reasons, like the nature of the licence, the political situation, etc. I don't see the reason to propagate more fear than is actually needed. It is clear that if a fork happens either one of the branch dies (not necessarily the main one), or it will merge back later on at some point. There is always a cost to pay when you are forking but the effects are very hard to predict. You always have to wonder what the exact cost of forking, taking time to carefully evaluate why you want to fork or is it worth it in the first place? Can you talk about the subject, come to a compromise and so far? I haven't seen the foundation so far not trying to explain itself, and trying to move towards a compromise. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] CORINE Land Cover import in Estonia completed
Margus Värton wrote: > Margus Värton wrote: > >> I am glad to inform You that CORINE Land Cover data for Estonia is >> currently being imported. It takes some time and some manual or >> semi-manual intervention but in few days we should have much improved >> map data. >> >> > CORINE Land Cover data import for Estonia completed, coastline and > administrative boundaries being fixed manually. In addition to CORINE > data administrative boundaries for Estonia itself, counties, parishes, > cities, towns and villages imported from official data. Enjoy the results: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=58.3523&lon=26.7218&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF. > Congratulation! Emilie Laffray signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Create two new categories for lawyers, architects, plumbers, etc
2009/12/7 Jukka Rahkonen > Steve Bennett gmail.com> writes: > > > What about "architect=yes", like you get for bridge, area, building... > Seems > to work well. And then, if and when you have more information to add (eg, > lawyer=immigration), you have somewhere to add it.Steve > > For people using OSM data through some "normal" GIS tools, for example by > importing data first to PostGIS database with osm2pgsql, it is much more > painfull if each profession will have an own tag like "architect=yes", > "lawyer=yes" etc. If "amenity" category is not enough I would like better > to > have a limited number of other category tags and values which suit well for > filtering, like "something=architect", "something=lawyer" etc. Even now a > limit > between amenity and shop is a bit unclear, for example in > amenity=veterinary and > shop=hairdresser. > > I am afraid that "normal" GIS tools will always be lossy compared to the structure of OSM. Almost all formats have a fixed number fields (except maybe GeoJSON). I don't think you can reconcile that easily with OSM whose richness is linked to the multiplicity of tags that we have. So the lawyer=yes is a pain for "normal" gis, but at the same time very powerful for the rest of us who feel limited by the number of fields that you have in there. To some extent, osm2pgsql works like normal GIS, while Osmosis produces a schema that keeps the spirit of OSM. I think your something= is a good compromise in the end. I don't think there is an easy answer here, and I really don't want to go back to some limitations. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs...
2009/11/30 Steve Bennett > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Roy Wallace wrote: > >> I think it's critical that this stuff be summarised on the wiki. >> Besides being highly relevant to those who want to know *how to tag >> things*, it might help us find a way forward out of this mess. >> > > > Yep. Even if some of us don't agree that long term the "usecase vs country" > matrix is appropriate, it would be a very useful discussion point if we > could map out *current practice* this way. "Oh, the French do that???" > +1 Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenMoonMap/OpenUniverseMap? (forward from newb...@openstreetmap.org)
Xan wrote: > Follow Richard suggest ;-) : > > >> I am impressed by the interest in OpenMoonMap shown on this list. May >> I suggest that those interested in proceeding with this project move >> the discussion to the talk list? With the broader audience there you >> may find some additional interested parties. >> >> > > I post it the original messages I posted in newb...@openstreepmap.org: > > >> Hi, >> >> Is there any plans to expand openstreetmap to map the universe: the >> solar planets, the constellation, the Moon, etc.? We could have >> _really_ free raw information (only see and official aggencies). >> >> Another time, thanks for the project. >> >> Regards, >> Xan. >> [http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Som%20en%20Xavier] >> > > > In newbies list many people show interest in that project for > cartographying the Moon, Mars, Solar System, and for extension, the > Universe. I think it could be easy to expand openstreetmap to > openuniversmap. I'm a newbee (the original poster) and I have no > technical details avaliable, but you can follow the original thread: > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/newbies/2009-November/004286.html > for this purpose. > > I hope a enough group of people interest that. I could help tagging the > craters, missions of the moon and translate names to catalan and spanish. > While I like the idea quite a bit, I think I will wait for a bit to start mapping for roads and POI on the moon. More seriously, such a map is not really useful as OSM by default is not storing landscape. You will just have a blank map with some name tags if you don't have images in the end. It would be quite useless. Emilie Laffray signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Interesting article on Google Map strategy
Hello, I have just found this article on Google strategy. http://abovethecrowd.com/2009/10/29/google-redefines-disruption-the-%E2%80%9Cless-than-free%E2%80%9D-business-model/ If I understand this article correctly, it does make sense for Google not to use OSM, as they would be giving the advantage they gained to potential competitors like those companies not linked to a map company. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places
2009/11/18 Liz > On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, Peter Childs wrote: > > What I would like to do is write a script that takes the planet and > > gives a list of the places (towns, villages etc) and a polygon/area > > for each place. > Please leave australia out of your bot's reach. > we have imported government data which has achieved this for us. > I tend to agree with Liz here. Those polygons do not belong in OSM as they don't represent anything besides helping you with what you are doing. If you need them, then build them directly into your own database. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] For users in Paris
Someone replied on the French Mailing list: Manifestement, il ne s'agit que de quelques edits fait par un utilisateur débutant qui a immédiatement abandonné ensuite sa participation à OSM. L'ensembles des nodes et ways qu'il a modifiés à Paris ont été modifiés ultérieurement par des contributeurs expérimentés, il n'y a donc aucun reste dans la base de ses contributions. Translation: Obviously, they are only a few edits done by a beginner, who immediately stopped its participation to OSM. The entire nodes and ways that he modified in Paris have been modified afterward by more experienced contributors: there is therefore nothing left of its contribution in the database. Emilie Laffray 2009/11/18 Martin Koppenhoefer > Sorry that I'm writing in the international list, but as I'm not subscribed > to Talk-fr I saw no other way. > Please check this edit in Paris: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1246119 > the user did some nonesense in Rome, and I guess this edit is not better > either. > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] For users in Paris
2009/11/18 Martin Koppenhoefer > Sorry that I'm writing in the international list, but as I'm not subscribed > to Talk-fr I saw no other way. > Please check this edit in Paris: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1246119 > the user did some nonesense in Rome, and I guess this edit is not better > either. > Sent to talk-fr. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
2009/11/16 Andy Allan > > Yes. Please don't include "this point is within such-and-such a > polygon" data onto the point itself, it's redundant information and > not helpful. When a county border is changed by legislation, then > moving the border of the county should be sufficient for a mapper. > Having to check and update 10,000 address nodes would be error-prone. > > +1 is_in is completely useless especially as we improve the polygons like county and administrative areas. I very strongly with Andy here on this topic, especially considering how administrative areas are known to change in different countries. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shp-to-osm 0.7
2009/11/4 Martin Koppenhoefer > > > 2009/11/4 Frederik Ramm > > Hi, >> >> >> Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> >>> I also think that Frederik is right: it should be possible to assemble >>> different outer ways to one outer polygon and define it's meaning with tags >>> just on the relation >>> >> >> This *is* already possible - and also necessary for (at least!) any >> polygon with a geometry of more than 2000 points. >> >> > OK, everything is possible. Does this work in current renderers, namely > t...@h? > Mapnik has still problems with even most simple m-polygons (one outer and > one inner closed way, tagged differently, no further tags on > multipolygon-relation). > Well in the case of multiple outers (all joined), multiple inners with tags on relation, Mapnik seems to be handling it fine. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
