Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
I am hoping in a couple of weeks to map the grounds at a festival that occurs yearly in the same spot. This is not so much historical data, as data that's only true for three weeks a year. The rest of the time, it's just fields, with a few items (some toilets, etc) that stay in place year round. Would this come under historical mapping, or some other tagging scheme? Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM status POIs?
I've seen todo=job used for this purpose. And todo tags show up in a number of verification tools, so it will be brought to people's attention. Stephen 2009/8/14 Morten Kjeldgaard m...@bioxray.au.dk: I realized when mapping today that it would be very useful to have a set of OSM status POIs that you could use to mark the status of the mapping at certain places. I find I sometimes have to skip roads, tracks or paths, because I am too tired, don't have time, or that I'm going at good speed downhill and don't want to stop. I've tried to make mental notes to return and map those missing roads at a later time but as time goes by, you tend to forget. It would be very useful to have a POI saying for example unmapped highway/path etc. starts here. Then you could check out and select those points in your area, and they would serve as a reminder to you (or others coming along) that there's something here not yet mapped. These POIs would also serve as bite-size mapping projects if you're looking for quick things to do in your area. I guess there are other instances where an OSM status POIs would be useful. Cheers, Morten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Basic search, first attempt
Hopetoun, Vic and WA, both towns. I got into trouble with this once, because I'd only ever heard of the Vic one, and one of our clients was talking about the WA one, so I arranged for a meeting in the wrong state. Not quite as bad as the French firm that tried sending a package to me in Austria, I guess. If you want a complete list, see if you can find a postcode list, sorted by name. There are a lot of duplicates, though a lot of them are not even suburbs, just locations. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Basic search, first attempt
Yeah, that's correct. Sorry, I didn't mean to use it as a reference in that way, but a quick run through of the list in name order will give you an idea of how many duplicates there are, and how big the problem is likely to be. It's interesting to have a quick look in postcode order as well - it's amazing how many variations on names there are. Stephen 2009/8/13 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: Auspost has a CSV file on their website, but this it doesn't have lat/lon details and in any case we can't make use this information into OSM due to their strict website copyright. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] GPS Accuracy under Forest Canopy
I've done some rain-forest hiking, and I've noticed similar results. If you really want to see some wandering tracks, try hiking along the base of some cliffs, in dense forest. I have noticed that the errors do seems to be less the faster I'm moving. If I stand in one place for a while, the path can wander over quite an area if there is dense cover. If I walk fairly quickly, then it still has errors, but not as large. I think it must be finding more open patches and correcting itself more often. Stephen 2009/8/10 Mike N. nice...@att.net: I'm using netbook with just your average $30 GPS dongle to collect data. Today I took a 5 mile out-and back hike under dense forest canopy. The GPX traces for the same trail out and back are separated by as much as 100 meters. I didn't record PDOP information and such, but are there any solutions to record decent GPS traces on trails under forest canopy data collection other than a high end professional GPS datalogger? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Cycleway/footway/path
Umm, not the case at all. Highway= comes from the old english use, where highway means way/path/track you use to get somewhere. These days we assume roads and cars, but that's not the way it was originally designed. Stephen 2009/8/10 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: To play devils advocate here for a second, should highway=* be used at all, I mean a highway is something cars go on, or something cars used to go on but they turned it into a pedestrian only area, eg Martin Place in Sydney. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Business listings
2009/7/28 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: In Australia in Telstra won a lawsuit against people OCR'ing the street directory and selling white/yellow pages on CD. For all intents and purposes Telstra owns the copyright on all Australian White/Yellow page directories and now Telstra is a publicly listed company. A similar lawsuit (on TV program listings) was appealed earlier this year, and got the opposite result. It's a lot more complicated now, but in some situations you can get away with it. Basically the judge said that sweat of the brow did not a copyright make - so a collection of facts can't be copyrighted, thought the presentation of those facts can. There was some commentary at the time that this affected the Telstra rulings earlier, though as far as I know nobody has tried to do anything about it. I'd want to talk to a lawyer about it before I tried. And I don't know if the TV company counter appealed at a higher level. Also in Australia it's not free to list in the yellow pages for anyone, it's free to be listed in the white pages though I think. Um, that's not quite accurate. Everybody who has a business phone line, as opposed to a residential one, gets one free simple listing in the yellow pages, under the main category for your company. If you don't have a business line, or want more listings under other categories, or a bigger add, or even just bold or coloured print, then it costs. It's actually to YP's benefit to list as many as possible, because then people are more likely to pay more for a bigger add to stand out. The company I work for has never paid for a listing, and would like to get rid of the one free one, as we don't get customers that way and the only people who call us from it aren't actually looking for what we do. YP won't remove it, though. Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] maxheight/height
No, you're wrong here. Maxheight is an element of the way that goes under the bridge. It is caused by the bridge, but it is not part of the bridge. It is the road under the bridge that has the limitation, not the bridge. Divided roads often have different max heights on each side, but it is one level bridge over the top. Max-height can be caused by overhanging trees, low wires, odd road signs that stick out over the road, even buildings or roadside rocks that bulge out over the road. Whatever the cause, it is the road itself that is affected, and should be tagged. On a motorway, the max height section can be several km long - the distance between exits, and it is all covered by the same limitation, legally. On other roads it may be only a few meters, and could be covered by a node tag. Stephen 2009/7/28 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: For 1), what should be tagged? Definitely the bridge. For two reasons: firstly, clearance under a bridge is an attribute of the bridge. Secondly, it is not possible to refer to the section of the way that is under the bridge, because the bridge is a way with zero width. The only alternative is to tag the entire length of any way that goes under the bridge or some arbitrary length of any way that goes under the bridge. I think these alternatives are undesirable at best - misleading and messy at worst. For example, it's kind of like tagging any house that's next to a park as next_to_a_park=yes, rather than tagging the big grassy area as leisure=park (yes, this is an exaggeration, but the analogy is tagging the thing that is affected by something rather than tagging the something itself). ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] slightly diff tag watch
'Seventh-day Adventist' is the official name, but commonly abbreviated to Adventist or SDA. Technically, an adventist is someone who believes in the (soon) second coming of Christ (the Advent), so most Christian faiths can be called adventists. However, it's usually applied to a number of churches who came from the adventist movement of the 1800's, of which the SDAs are by far the largest. (Sorry, my comparative religions classes are showing) Stephen 2009/7/26 Liz ed...@billiau.net: I see that Ultimo has declared independence Microsoft has been formally declared a cult and we have four ways of marking Adventist / Seventh Day Adventist churches (anyone know the official name? I looked today and decided on adventist) and lastly, nodes can have gender ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] I just saw Nambour....
While we're talking about the Sunshine coast area, is anybody going to the Muster this year? It wouldn't hurt to map the campgrounds and festival while they're there - most of the year it's just a few empty fields. Stephen 2009/7/24 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: --- On Thu, 23/7/09, Jeff Price jeff.pr...@rocketmail.com wrote: The afternoon of Sat 15 Aug or Sun 16 Aug is my best bet. The only major thing I can think of that would clash is the Ekka, which is still going on the 15th. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Same physical road, diff maxspeed.
I'm sure somebody somewhere has used a tag like max_speed_opposite or something like that, but the closest I've actually seen to a recomendation is this http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Segmented_Tag Look at the discussion tab for more info. I don't knwo how widely this is actually used, either in the data or processing it. You may want to ask on the main talk list, rather than talk-au to get a wider opinion. Stephen 2009/7/22 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: A section of the Bruce highway just north of Gympie has 2 different speed limits depending what direction you are traveling. While I guess this could be solved as 2 single lanes is there a more elegant solution? http://osm.org/go/ueTQy4AfL- When going south you hit an 80 sign 300-500m before the school signs, however when going north you hit a 90 sign as you leave the school zone, I'm pretty sure I've come across other dual speed zones on the same piece of road depending on the direction of travel, but they're rare. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Same physical road, diff maxspeed.
Yeah, you're right - this is more what I was thinking of seeing, but the relationship is the one that came up when I searched. I don't understand the wiki search results sometimes. Try this page. I think the one I listed earlier is not the best option. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Scope_for_access_tags Also - oops - my bad. This *is* the talk list. Stephen 2009/7/22 SLXViper slxvi...@gmx.net: I think using maxspeed:forward and maxspeed:backward would be the best solution. This was also discussed for access= depending on the direction you come from: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-July/038503.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 'Distance to feature' maps?
Good luck changing their minds. We have a similar rule near here - no bad winters or wild animals, but some kids were supposed to walk across a major multi-lane highway that had no crossing at all for vehicles for several km each way, but they were within a 1km circle of the school, so no transport. 2009/7/15 si...@mungewell.org: Local school board is trying to drop school bus service school kids (from grade 1 up) within 2.0km of school and get them to walk to school (bear in mind this is a rural community with -40'C winters, wildlife such as bears/cougars and an ungated CPR train route through it). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Junctions (to name or not to name)
This is most definitely a problem with Gosmore. The fact is, most roundabouts do not have names, and artificially giving them one to make a renderer (or routing program) happy is tagging for the renderer. Even if a roundabout did have a name, I'd be happier if the routing software just said turn onto roundabout, take second exit on Smith Highway than if it said turn onto Great Circle, turn onto Smith Highway. Names on roundabouts are so uncommon that I'd be looking for a road called Great Circle. Or are you saying that if the entry and exit roads and roundabout all have the same name it ignores the roundabout entirely, and this behaviour is what is broken? That's not too hard a fix to do in a program. Anything marked as a junction or roundabout should be getting special treatment anyway. It shouldn't matter if the roundabout has no name, the name of the street you're on, or the name of a different crossing street, as long as it is marked as a roundabout. It's still a bug if it causes a problem. Stephen 2009/6/28 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com: This is not a problem with gosmore, the problem occurs where you have a street going through a roundabout without ANY name on the roundabout with the street named on both sides of the roundabout. It does not recognise the street continues through the roundabout and then out the other side. If there's no name on the streets or roundabout then it work's correctly. Likewise if the streets are named and the roundabout is named then there's not a problem. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tag] Ref in link
What is your suggested ref for links that are an entrance, not an exit? And can you give an example of what you mean by an exit ref? Where I come from, some exits have numbers, but the number is associated with the highway ref, so you'd still need that as well. 2009/6/25 Xav x...@nainwak.com: Hi all, On this page : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway_link it is implicitly written that the ref of a link should be the reference of the road from which the link depends. For example, a motorway_link to/from the motorway A 1 will be referenced as A 1. Generally, this schema doesn't work. Indeed, links depends of TWO roads, and regularly with two roads of the same type. Examples in France : link between the A 11 and the A 10 near Paris, or a lot of links between secondary roads. What do you think about referencing the links with the exit reference ? I do not know how it works in other countries, but in France, every exit usually has a reference. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] school zones
How accurate are you wanting to go? To be truly accurate, you're going to need to take weekends and school holidays into account as well. Actually, on a serious note, I'd love to have a routing algorithm that avoids schools during child dropoff and pickup hours when possible. I don't mind the slowing down bit, it's the waiting 10 minutes while the school empties out across the road, playing russian roulette with triple parked parents in 4WD's and dodging school buses that seem to have forgotten they have indicators that bugs me. Stephen 2009/6/23 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: People asked to have the current speed limit displayed in my speedo app, so this is where I'm going with this. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Hi all ...
I've ever used Potlatch-I was nervous about having an editor that was always live - no 'edit-check-save' cycle. I understand that has recently changed, but the point is it's not that hard to use some of the other options. Stephen 2009/6/17 Dan O'Hara oha...@homemail.com.au: As a total newbie to this I was advised to use Potlatch as it was seen to be the easiest. I understand that JOSM and mercaator(sp?) are more sophisticated eg do proper roundabouts, but I wanted to graduate first! ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Hi all ...
Sorry- that should be _Never_ used potlatch 2009/6/18 Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com: I've ever used Potlatch-I was nervous about having an editor that was always live - no 'edit-check-save' cycle. I understand that has recently changed, but the point is it's not that hard to use some of the other options. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Data Error - Junctions ?
2009/6/18 Rick Peterson ausr...@iinet.net.au: Background: I was having a look at my local area with Keepright and spotted a couple of dead ended one ways. On close inspection in Potlatch, I see that the junctions have not been formed correctly. The layout of the streets, street names etc all appear to be correct. Well, I fixed those couple of dead ended one ways, but then checking other data around the immediate area, I see that just about all of the regular two way junctions have not been formed correctly. I started to fix them in one block of suburban streets, but the number of problems is significant, so I stopped my work to contact the mailing list to make sure I'm on the right track. (pardon the pun) There are huge numbers of these around Australia. I think a lot of them are caused by people who originally traced the ways from imagery, and didn't make sure that the ways connected up properly (or at all, in some cases). It's gotten to the point where every time I edit an area to add names, etc the first thing I do is run an error check (I use JOSM) and fix as many as possible from the data I have. Otherwise when I get to the point of checking my own edits, they're swamped in other problems. I wonder why these don't show up in Keepright with the almost-junctions check? Maybe it's almost is closer than you might expect, or perhaps it's just buggy. Or there's so many errors it runs out before finishing the check? Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
2009/5/25 Liz ed...@billiau.net: Something else I can't work out how to tag is a jetty, the thing that juts out into water and boats tie up to. But after 8 years of drought here, perhaps I needn't worry too much. Just be grateful you're not trying to teach English to some-one who speaks Melanesian pidgin. There's no distinction there between a bridge, a pier, a jetty, etc. If it's man-made and it's elevated, it's a bris. Trying to explain why English uses different words for what to them is the same thing was difficult. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Highways tagging vs Polygon
2009/5/22 Richard Bullock rb...@cantab.net: Am I missing something, or can we not just assume that e.g. each highway=residential has a speed limit consistent with urban areas in that country - unless explicitly tagged otherwise Actually, that wouldn't work where I live in Australia. Each state can have it's own 'default' speed limit, not the country as a whole. And in fact, different areas in the same state can have different default speed limits. For example, Queensland traffic law says that on any unsigned, built up road, the speed limit is 60 kph. Except for the SE corner, where they decided a few years ago to make it 50 kph instead. (this is about a 150 by 100 km rectangle). All the main roads leading into this area have signs pointing this out, but otherwise 50kph signs are few, you're just supposed to know. They may decide to make it cover the whole state at some point, but not yet. Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
In my part of Australia, we have a speed limit that applies to every non-rural street that is not specifically signed as being another speed - basically case (b) below. The wording used in the law is built up area. (In practice, the test for a built up area seems to be does it have street lights?.) Unfortunately, if that is the best they could come up with for that, then there probably isn't a good English word that covers it. Urban is close, but has connotations of the city centre, not the suburbs or villages. I think it's probably going to be the best, though. Stephen 2009/5/20 Guenther Meyer d@sordidmusic.com: hi, currently there is a discussion on the german list about tagging speed limits respectively different zones. as there are implied also other things than maxspeed there are proposed three default zones, derived from the signs standing at every border crossing point: a) motorway: that's very clear, therea are no or very high limits. b) city areas with limited speed and some restrictions c) everything else, mostly out of town. so this questions goes primarily to the native english speakers: what would be the right term for a value for these zones? a) motorway? this one would be very clear I think. b) in_town? place? urban? it's the thing we call geschlossene ortschaft in germany, which inludes everything from very small villages to really large cities (bounded by yellow squared signs in germany). c) out_of_town? rural? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
To get imagery in Josm, you need to use the WMS menu at the top to add an imagery layer. You may need to set it up first with some plug-ins. It is certainly possible, though. Stephen 2009/5/20 Delta Foxtrot delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: I tried JSOM briefly the other day but the entire background was black and made it harder to use than potlach. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] coastline accuracy?
There are large parts of tropical coastlines where the coast is marked as the outside edge of mangrove swamps. These are covered with water most of the time, and adjacent to the sea, so are below the high tide line, but are considered to be part of the land. You can't take a boat through them, and they're covered with trees. These have been discussed on the mailing lists several times. The general consensus seems to be that if it's covered in plants, it's inside the coastline, even if there happens to be water cover as well. In some places, we're talking about differences of 15-20km or so in where the coastline goes, so it's easy to see what paper maps have done, and every one I've checked includes coastal swamps (fens?) and mangrove flats on the land side of the coast. 2009/4/30 Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl: I can't find anything about moving the coastline away from the high-tide line in either: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:natural=wetland or http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:natural=coastline The second page e.g. talks about a sandbank at the coast of the isle of Wight. Which, according to that discussion, should be on the sea-side of the coastline. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] best GPS for trekking
Make sure you test it in the cold though, as noted before, recharchable batteries especially tend to work worse in cold weather. Doesn't mean they won't work, just that you'll get maybe half the life out of them. If you are going to use good alkaline batteries, don't expect them to be easily available anywhere except maybe Kathmandu. Cheap batteries will be readily available, but they will be crap quality. You generally need to find a store that aims specifically at higher class customers before you will find good batteries. This is a general rule through most of Asia, I find. Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What is amenity=food_outlets in map features?
I'm guessing a food court. That's the term I've always heard, anyway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_court Stephen 2009/3/29 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: Hi! Someone added amenity=food_outlets to the map features and even after reading the comment An area with several food outlets I'm quite unsure what this could be. Is this a collection of several amenity=fast_food or a kind of vending_machine or ...? Can someone explain this a bit? Regards, ULFL P.S: A photo would also be nice and may explain it even better ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] highway=cyclefootway
OK, so while we're talking about this, there are a number of paths near me. Nice smooth concrete, about 2m wide. They run through parks, and there are signs on the park as a whole that say No motorised vehicles. These paths are marked with a sign that has a pedestrian and a bicycle, and another sign that says Cyclists give way to Pedestrians. How would you normally mark these? I've used footway, plus bicycle=yes. I don't feel right calling it a cycleway if they have to give way to other users. Just to confuse the issue, some of them also have name signs, and most of these names are Xxxx cycle trail (or similar). Even on these, though, pedestrians still have right of way. Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cloudmade: We are the Wikipedia of maps
And you can't always blame the journalists, either. Once they send their copy in, the editors can have a go at it as well. I've seen perfectly good and factual articles become very inaccurate as the editors try and make it fit in half the space with bit of cut and paste. You'd think these days the online version would at least be the longer, hopefully more accurate version, but that's not always the case. Stephen 2009/3/11 Tim 'avatar' Bartel openstreet...@computerkultur.org: As a long time member of the Wikimedia Press Team and also beeing responsible for the Wikia press work, I *really* do know that journalists can mix up things and write whatever they like with little connection to what you have told them. Especially they do like mixing up Wikia and Wikipedia and how these two projects are connected. This is neither wanted by Wikipedians, nor by Wikia. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki: chriscf vandalism
What I like about the tag voting system is the discussion. The discussion pages around a tag proposal are often quite useful - often more so than the main page on the tag. The number of times a tag proposal has been improved from the original proposal after discussion suggests that any system that bases itself on only tag usage without any discussion area on a tag is a backwards step. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Adelaide out of copyright street directory
2009/1/18 Liz ed...@billiau.net: Important matter on copyright duration I realised only very recently that we haven't been reading the rules correctly and published material - the street directory, the paper map, expires after 25 years at midnight on the next New Years Eve Published editions The rule for duration of copyright in a published edition 25 years from the end of the year of first publication; the AUSFTA did not change this rule. source http://www.copyright.org.au/pdf/acc/infosheets_pdf/G023.pdf so at the end of 2008 we can use published material from any time up to and including all of 1983. this of course doesn't mean its correct - it may still have changed or never been right at all No definitely not, you're reading it wrong. If you look at foot note 5 in that same document you'll see it says 'A published edition means the typographical arrangement and layout of a published work.' It definitely does not apply to the contents - just the layout. If, for example, I reprinted one of Shakespeare's plays then I would have a published edition copyright on that version. It would last 25 years, and somebody else couldn't just copy my work exactly and republish in that time. They could type up and print their own version, however. Usually the copyright on the contents is longer than the layout, so it doesn't come into effect. But the published edition copyright is usually owned by the publisher, not the author. Say I write a book, and it is published. I own the copyright on the book, but sell rights to the publisher to publish it - say first Australian rights - first rights to publish the book in Australia. I then sell the book to a US publisher to print there. They can't make an exact copy of the work from the Australian publisher without having some agreement with them, which is one reason why the same book published in different countries almost always looks different. There are other reasons as well, but I'm too far off topic already. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Temporary Items, overlays, changes
No, don't delete them if they may be of historical value (or if they come back again). Tag them with something so they don't show in the current day maps. We already have historical tagged items - things that don't currently exist. (US Civil war battlesites, etc). There is a festival near me that lasts for 1 1/2 weeks each year. Some people start camping there two-three weeks early to get a good spot. The rest of the year there is a couple of permanent roads, with a lot of permanent toilets and not much else, in the middle of some state forest. I would like to map the site next time it occurs, and then leave the temporary ways in a disused state, but in the database so it's easy to turn them on again when they actually exist. 2009/1/8 Rory McCann r...@technomancy.org: I think the OSM database should have the current map of the world. If something is created, then map it. If it then gets torn down 2 weeks later, then delete those nodes/ways from the database. Just because the main slippy map is only re-rendered every week doesn't mean we can't have more instananeous changes in it. Rory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Which entry level budget garmin
I didn't give it because I didn't remember, and it isn't what he's looking for. It was the testing of the snap-to road functions and the track-logging I remembered. It is a Mio PDA, model 7nn (720, 730?). I can't look it up right now because I loaned it to somebody for the Christmas holidays, and haven't got it back yet. It works fine as a PDA, which is why I was given it. The GPS unit was an unexpected extra. When it is turned on, the battery life of the unit goes down to 15-20 minutes, which basically makes it unusable as a portable GPS. Works fine in the car, while attached to a power supply, though. The GPS software is on a seperate SD card, and the track logs go into a directory on that card as NMEA sentences, which GPSBABEL can convert to gpx. I can access the GPS directly from the PDA, so I could load Gosmore or another package, but I haven't bothered, as for my normal day to day mapping, I use a handheld Garmin unit on a bike mount. Stephen 2009/1/6 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: @Stephen: Instead of For my specific device (not a Zumo) it might be a lot more helpful if you would tell us what your specific device really is! Regards, ULFL ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Which entry level budget garmin
It's not hard to test. When I was unsure if my device was doing this or not, I set it to snap to road, and then took it for a little walk along the edge and then cut some corners in a park, then looked at the tracks. For my specific device (not a Zumo), I discovered that the on screen and main track log snapped to the roads, but I could also turn on a background data saving log that saved the raw data, which was quite usable. Stephen 2009/1/6 D Tucny d...@tucny.com: I think ULFL's point was that with his Zumo there isn't such a configuration option, so while it does save track logs, he's not confident that they are acceptable due to the potential that it is just snapping to road and as such, copying the copywrited built in maps rather than saving tracks based on the GPS recorded position... A nuvi could have this problem too if this is not configurable... d ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Some more shops and amenities for the map features page ...
2008/12/21 D Tucny d...@tucny.com: What makes an optician's a shop whereas a dentist is an amenity? NHS? Opticians selling sunglasses? Because an opticians tend's to look a shop, and I can go in, buy something (new frame, glasses case, cleaning materials) without an appointment or seeing an optician at all? I've never seen a dentists place that looked like a shop. 2008/12/21 Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com: It's doctors that puzzles me. Why not doctor? I know that you are reporting reality here, but maybe we have a chance now to document a more consistent set of tags and perhaps the (possibly few) mappers already using doctors would be prepared to retag. It's a shortened form of doctor's (surgery/office). It's common English usage, so I can see why people would start using it. Whether or not it should be encouraged, however is another question. I think if we are going to get serious about POI's we need to come up with a tagging scheme for things that are businesses but are not shops. Just thinking about things in the immediate vicinity of where I work, there is a business park (named, and known by the name), a state tax office, several office buildings, various other government departments. I'm not sure amenity or shop really works for any of them. Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Major road cleanup
I'm a little confused. Everywhere I've seen a park on the side of the road like that, it has used the same nodes, but not the same way. Splitting the way should not effect the park at all, except if you add nodes, in which case you'll need to add them to the park way as well. Or am I thinking of something different? Stephen 2008/12/20 Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com: Talking of bridges, I'm trying to add a bridge, over a strom water drain to a road in Canberra. However it is just about impossible since on each side of this road is a park and the parks are using parts of the road as part of their own perimeter. If I split the road in order to add a bridge, I'll mess up both parks. I could unglue the parks, move them out of the way, build the bridge, move the parks back in and maybe get JOSM validator to glue them back in. However I don't really want my name left on a construction like this. I could make the unglued parks a little smaller and then move them back and have them each have their own perimeter. Alternatively I could just delete both parks and them build them back afterwards to my liking, and risk being flamed by the original mappers. Or, I could turn the bridge 90 degrees and put it on the drain at level -1. I don't reall like this as it doesn't seem to reflect reality. Silimarly I don't really want to make the drain go through a tunnel. Or I could just leave it alone. Any suggestions?? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Seasonal Roads?
Start using it - the ultimate test of tag in OSM is whether it is used or not. However, if people are actively discussing it, try and get a consensus first. Stephen 2008/12/11 Colin McGregor [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So, what can I do to help advance the cause of getting a seasonal tag (be the season winter or dry season) into OSM? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] What gives with roundabouts?
There is no problem adding a turning circle to courts as long as they have one. Before the turning circle tag was rendered, I saw the occasional mini-roundabout used as a turning circle, because it made the map look right. Stephen 2008/12/11 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: +1 I completely agree with all of Darrin's points. I was unaware of the decision on the mailing list when I started mapping a about 1.5 years ago. I read the descriptions on the wiki and went with a proper roundabout for suburban roundabouts, since they don't fit the definition of the mini-roundabout. I don't even recall seeing one in Melbourne, you always have to deviate around even small ones. As a Potlatch user, it sucks a bit to add them, but Merkaartor I think JOSM have a tool to make it easy. I'm a big fan of mapping what's on the ground and don't tag for the renderers/routers. But I like the idea of global consistency, it makes it easier on all users of the raw data. That's what I hope Map Features will provide (consistency), but the voting has it's issues as well. There's talk on the Talk mailing list of having a Core Features page. So for eg. I'd be in favour of using the wiki definitions of place=* tags. I plan on submitting a proposal for the roundabout tag, where you can add it to a node like a mini_roundabout, for use in simple suburban type roundabouts. Something like junction:inner_width=3mcould specify the island size, making it possible for pretty rendering. Weird intersecting ways or large roundabouts would have to continue as is. Anyone have any suggestions before I create the proposal? PS. Was it me adding turning_circle to courts? The wiki page description seems to match my use of it (I waited many months for it to be proposed/accepted/added to renderers). Cheers, BlueMM --- On Thu, 11/12/08, Darrin Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Darrin Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [talk-au] What gives with roundabouts? To: Talk-au@openstreetmap.org Received: Thursday, 11 December, 2008, 3:10 PM On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:55:13 +1100 Ian Sergeant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've looked back through the logs, found the one discussion, noted that it was basically a 4-3 split of contributors and since every discussion on it has been we discussed it and decided this. Hardly a consensus in my mind. Since you made the effort to go back through the logs, and re-read the discussion that took place then, I'm surprised you would reach the conclusion that peoples position was solely related to effort. I suspect that's because you were in the discussion and supported the views of the first poster, hence you didn't look at how he expressed it. (see below) I disagree that there hasn't been consensus on its use. There always have been differences of opioion, but as you say, most people have been happy to accept that it is the way it is. That is consensus. Ok I'll pay that in the technical definition of the word you are correct. However given that all new people approach a project like this with some trepidation (For example it's taken me 10 months and someone altering work I've done to make me raise this issue which I've thought was wrong almost as soon as I found out about it) it's not surprising the 'consensus' has been maintained. OSM is littered with cases of things done badly to start with (which is not a problem in one sense because something needs to be started somewhere) and then carried on forever after (this is where it's a problem) in what appears to be consensus because no-ones been motivated to change it (The hideous is_in tag comes to mind). I feel the approach you are taking is wrong. There are reasonable arguments to use a mini-roundabout tag in Australia where it is currently being used. If you want to convince people to not use it, and to map using junction, take the time to understand and address those arguments, and convince people that the best way is the way you are suggesting. Don't dismiss its proponents as lazy, or worse still as disruptive. Many of its these people have been valuable contributors to getting the map done. Ok, I could have approached it a better way I'll admit that. But this issue boils down to the fact there are no actual reasons given for why mini_roundabout should be used! The discussion just seems to assume that every roundabout is a mini until it has reason to be bigger, it's not even discussed whether this is valid. The discussion resolves around what benefits the roundabout tag offers OVER the mini_roundabout tag, ignoring the fact they actually imply 2 quite different things in the first place. Historically the roundabout tag predates the mini-roundabout tag by at least 10 months in the wiki pages. So in effect the original mini_roundabout tag was devise to handle a very special case of roundabout that doesn't fit well with the normal definition in size, shape,
Re: [talk-au] Mapnik rendering of AU cities
I'm not positive, but I think that the very low zoom views don't actually get a lot (any?) of their data from the live OSM data. Rather they do, but they are only updated on very occasionally. There is just too much data to be continually recreating tiles that large from the main database. The coastlines, for example, used to come from shapefiles from another source, because we hadn't done our coasts. They now come mostly from our database, but I think they are still extracted out every so often and turned into shapefiles, not recreated on the fly for low zoom levels. Maybe the cities shown at low zoom levels come from something similar - a list of major cities in each country or something? Sydney and Canberra would be the biggest and the Capitol, so I could see that. Or maybe they haven't updated these zoom levels since Melbourne was added as a node? In any case, ask on the talk list, where somebody who deals with the low zoom levels is likely to see it. Stephen 2008/12/4 Roy Rankin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: With the discussion of places, I noticed that on the slippy map with the mapnik renderer, only the names of Sydney and Canberra appear on the 500km and 200km scales. I have looked at the tags for the Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne nodes; and I do not understand why Melbourne is not shown as I do not see any substantial differences in the tags. Wiki says that population can be used for rendering at different zooms, but Melbourne has 10 times the population of Canberra. Ideally, I would like to see names of all the major (state capital) cities in the whole of Australia view. As an aside, in the USA most of the major cities are not state capitals. Does anyone understand why Melbourne is not shown on the whole of Australia view? Regards, Roy Rankin ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on the wiki map features
Where you have the sign post for 4WD only, is that an access restriction or a suggestion? I.E. If you go on that road with a motorbike, or a 2wd vehicle, could you face prosecution? Or would you just be considered a bit foolish? It's a warning, not a restriction. I regularly take my 2WD on one of these roads, every time I visit my aunt. On the other hand, I'm only going about 2 kilometres, I know I can handle that bit of the road as long as it isn't raining so hard the surface has turned to porridge, and the really bad parts are past her house. I've gotten a few odd looks from 4WD drivers going the other way (passing isn't easy, either), but no one's ever tried to stop me. On the other hand, some of these roads are hundreds of kilometres long, with possible fords/flooding, steep hills, bad ruts, and no inhabitants to turn to for help. I wouldn't want to take a single 4WD on those roads, let alone a 2WD. Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Turn restriction docs
As well as You can't do this and You must do this we need You may do this (that normally you can't). Where I live, you can't do a U-turn at traffic lights unless there's a sign that says you can. If we try and mark this by putting relations at every light banning U-turns, we'll just end up with the no-street name problem - how can you tell the difference between somewhere you can do a u-turn and somewhere that hasn't been mapped. If we can mark the places you can turn, then it matches the signs, and we can preprocess the data to something routers can use. There's a challenge for the router dev's as well. Add an option to your routing software that disables u-turns at traffic lights unless a restriction specifically allows it. You'll be ahead of both of the commercial GPS devices I've tried. Stephen 2008/11/30 Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Nic Roets wrote: At T junctions the ambiguity is resolved using restriction=no_left_turn/no_right_turn. For the record, I am strongly opposed to automated processing of the restriction except to see if it is only... or no I want a situation where the two parts of the road are unambiguously identified by the from and to members, meaning that if any of these do not start/end at the junction they have to be split. The restriction tag would then be used to check whether I can ONLY go from from to to, or whether I can NOT go from from to to. Whatever follows after no_ or only_ can be used to paint nice matching signs on a map or to give voice commands, but should not be used to identify which ways the restiction applies to! Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Contraflow bus lane
Passenger service vehicles (PSVs) are: * vehicles used in a passenger service (no matter how many seating positions they might have) * vehicles with more than 12 seating positions (whether they're used for hire or reward or not) * heavy motor vehicles with more than nine seating positions So Taxis, Shuttles, Buses, some minivans (the big ones have 14 seats). I have a friend with a horse float that qualifies. In reality, it's almost always buses that use the PSV lanes, but some other vehicles are allowed in some places. Stephen 2008/10/23 Matthias Julius [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Stephen Hope [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not all PSV's are buses. What else? Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Turn restrictions vs allowances?
We have a similar thing here in Queensland, Australia. You can't do a U-turn at any traffic lights unless there is a sign specifically saying that you can. I think this is the same across the whole country, but I'd have to check. There are no signs saying you can't at the other lights, you're supposed to know (or at least infer it). Intersections without traffic lights are the opposite - you may do a u-turn unless there is a sign saying you can't. I haven't got around to tagging any of them yet, so haven't had to figure out how to do it. Stephen 2008/10/23 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Matias D'Ambrosio wrote: Sent: 22 October 2008 8:21 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Turn restrictions vs allowances? What is the opposite of a turn restriction? I can't find it and no one answers on IRC. Turning left is forbidden everywhere in my country on two way roads when there is no specific traffic light for it, and I assume it's the same in many other countries. Interesting, which country are you talking about since clearly it does differ around the world. Essentially in the UK you can turn left or right at any junction, with or without a traffic signal. Generally the only time you cannot is when a no left turn or no right turn sign is present. I'm guessing that the reason the turn restrictions tagging has come about is because most countries are the opposite to yours rather than the same? Anyway, I agree it sounds like to need a turn_permitted= type tag for your area. Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Contraflow bus lane
Not all PSV's are buses. 2008/10/23 Matthias Julius [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Shaun McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Usually psv for public service vehicle is used for access restrictions. I missed that. It would have been too easy to call a bus bus, I guess ;-) Should we rename bus_stop to psv_stop? Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Edits in and around Mt Barker, SA
2008/10/21 Kim Hawtin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: - Are the rail and road under passes right? I have set them as tunnels, because it makes more sense than the freeway being a bridge, how ever what do other folks use? Without actually looking at what you've done - I've done both. If the underpass really does feel like a tunnel, then I've used that, even if it is actually at the surrounding ground level, and the highway's on an embankment. There are some cases where a bridge for the highway is a better description, though. Also - if you have roads crossing at only a small angle, a bridge shows up better on most renderers than a tunnel does. We're not supposed to map for the renderer, but if it could go either way anyway, you might want to keep this in mind. - I've put in a few round'a'bouts ... they are messy critters. is it the right thing to draw them out with little link roads or should they be put up as where the roads intersect with the joining node and tag that node as a round about? especially larger ones, like the end of Gawler street near the bus interchange? We discussed this on this list a while back - and decided that we don't actually have many (any?) of the paint only roundabouts in Australia that are quite common in the UK and are tagged as mini_roundabouts. So we would use that tag for any roundabout where the central island fits inside the road intersection. This would cover most suburban roundabouts. Just connect the roads at a central node, tag the node mini_roundabout. Don't forget to add the direction=clockwise tag. Any bigger roundabout you actually draw a circle (at least four points), mark it as junction=roundabout, and make sure the way goes clockwise, because it will be oneway. Then connect the roads to the roundabout. The following link has pictures. And you're right, they are painful and messy. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:junction%3Droundabout - My edits seem to be taking around two weeks to hit the OSM normal map ... isn't this normally happening weekly? They get new data for the renderer weekly, but then they actually have to process the data to form maps, which takes a while. This also explains why sometimes you see a mix of old and new data where one tile has been rendered, but the one beside hasn't been updated yet. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] - RFC -Motorway_linkimpliesoneway=??
2008/10/9 Matthias Julius [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This leads to a nightmare. Those rules would need to be implemented in every tool that works with OSM data (and cares about oneway properties). It's a nightmare we're probably going to have to address at some point if we want to do good routing. There are many traffic rules that are local, affect routing, and are not explicitly signed on the roads. Here's an example. In Queensland (and I think the rest of Australia) it is illegal to do a U-turn at traffic lights unless there is a sign that specifically says you can. It is legal to U-turn at road junctions without traffic lights unless there is a sign that says you can't. If you want a routing application to take this into account, we're going to either have a local rule that says Don't U-turn at lights etc or get every intersection with lights mapped with U-turn restrictions in every direction that aren't signed in the real world (good luck with that). Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] - RFC - Motorway_link impliesoneway=??
Bad assumption. This may be the case in parts of Europe and the USA, but certainly not in most parts of the world. 2008/10/3 Matthias Julius [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Trunk roads are probably mostly oneway, too ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] GPS recommendation
I hadn't heard of that one before. Do you have any idea how long it operates as a GPS on battery? The GPS I have now is a multifunction device - it goes for hours without the GPS on, but turn the GPS on and it dies quickly. It is going to be used in the car with power, the one I'm looking to buy is for use on a bike and foot - there's a lot of paths connecting up this area I want to go and map. It says up to 380 hours on the website, but I'm thinking that's with all the extras turned off. Most of my foot/bike mapping trips are only a couple of hours long, but it would be good if it can do a day or so for the odd longer hiking trip. Stephen 2008/9/12 Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED]: One of these: http://www.kogan.com.au/shop/kogan-gps-watch-bluetooth/ I have no affiliation with this company, just satisfied customer with this product. Log settings can be changed between 1 and 30 seconds. This gives 36 to 1604 hours of log. Built in battery is rechargable via usb. Comes with vehicle and 240V chargers, wrist strap, handlebar holder, lanyard. Mine sits in the centre console of the vehicle (dosn't need to be in sight from outside the vehicle) plugged into the power outlet and gives excellent results. I just need to remember to turn it on at the start of the day and off at the end of the day. I also have the truckPC and carPC running gpsdrive using osm via mapnik and google maps. -- Regards Ross info at 4x4falcon dot com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] boxes around cities
Yeah - look to see if they have a notes tag. Are these the Yahoo coverage boxes you are talking about? I noticed the one for Adelaide appeared a few months ago and confused me until I realised that's what it was for. -- ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
2008/9/2 Sascha Silbe [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There's no way OSM could change that default, it's up to your MUA vendor. The buttons you're currently using are reply (with an implied to author) and reply to all, not reply (default) and reply (alternative). The only thing OSM can do is to trick your MUA into believing the reply to author function should reply to the list instead. And note the last word I used: _instead_. It doesn't work as expected anymore, rendering the expected function unavailable. But this is where the problem is. You did not send me this email, the list did. Reply does not imply send to author it implies send to who sent me the message. If I forward an email to someone, a reply comes to me, not the original author. If the list forwards an email to someone, the expectation is therefore created that a reply would go back to the list. The fact that lists work differently in the background is not obvious. An OSM thread is supposed to be creating a group conversation. Setting it up so the default way of replying breaks threads away from the list into private conversations might work well for a advertising list, but is strange for a list of this type. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is it land or sea: how to map a swamp?
The northern coast of Australia has many Mangrove marshes at river mouths, some of them extending many kilometres away from the dry shore line. PGS shows these areas as sea, because they are not dry land - and that is were the coastlines would have been imported from. Note that being submerged for half the year doesn't mean the trees are covered with water, just the mud under them. The tree tops would be above water all the time, I suspect. We've (mostly) tagged them as land, with the coast being on the sea side of them. Technically they may be water covered (or partially water covered, usually about 6 inches deep), but if you can't swim or boat in them and plants and trees grow there it's land as far as I'm concerned. They certainly are not ocean. Marshes in the UK are also treated as land from the coastline point of view, even were they edge an ocean. See http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-16.9642lon=145.7843zoom=13layers=B00FTF for an example near Cairns. More examples are further up the coast. Stephen 2008/7/9 Alan Millar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I came across an interesting area which I don't know how to map or tag. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=22.066lon=89.047zoom=9layers=B00FTF This is the Sundarbans mangrove forest on the border of India and Bangladesh. The map doesn't look like much, but look at the map with aerial photos like in Potlatch edit mode and it starts to get interesting. I read that it is submerged for up to half of the year. The Yahoo aerial photos clearly show the forest areas, so I assume they were taken at a low-water period. Google Maps shows it as land. Our oceantiles file has it as land, but our coastlines treat it as sea. Our coastlines stop at the farmlands which border it. During the high water period, I suppose our coastlines make sense. Does anyone have any recommendations of how to treat an area like this? Any similar geography already mapped somewhere? Thanks - Alan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wide roads and traffic signals
If you can't cross from one side to another anywhere, then it should be marked as two separate ways. When you have a twoway road connect to one of these, it will connect to each side, with a little crossing piece in the middle. When you have two such roads connect, then it will look like a hash symbol (#) with four nodes. Each of these nodes would have a traffic light tag if there were lights. Stephen 2008/6/25 Moshe Sayag [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi everyone, I am trying to map my area (that is very sparsely mapped in OSM currently), so I bought a GPS device and started cycling / driving around and edit my tracks. The results so far can be seen at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.1878lon=34.8714zoom=14layers=B00FT (Notice that the street names is not shown in Mapnik but only in Osmarender) My questions: 1. How do I map a wide road with a separation (line of trees) between the two directions? Something like: * * * * * * * * Do I set it as a one two-way road or two one-way roads? 2. If I set it as two separate ways, how do I mark traffic signals (traffic lights) where two such roads cross each other? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag
2008/6/24 Michal Migurski [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'd also take issue with your rendering of Divisadero - it's a lot like Sepulveda in in LA, apparently the wrong pronunciation is the right pronunciation. =) That's a whole other can of worms. Is the right pronunciation: - The way the locals says it? - The way a subgroup of locals of a particular linguistic group say it? - The way the rest of the country says it? (In Australia, there is at least one town were the inhabitants pronounce it different from pretty much everybody else in Australia. I understand Maine in the US has similar examples) There are a few places in Australia and New Zealand that were named after places in Europe, but aren't pronounced the same. Well, not pronounced the same by everybody, in any case. Who's right? Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
What is your definition of an artificial waterway? Dug and designed by man? Made of non-natural materials? Near me a few years ago was an open marshy field that was fed by a stream, with a stream exiting. Now the developers have put houses up in the field. They brought in dirt and raised the ground level, dug a connection between the entry and exit streams and landscaped around it. Is it a stream or a drain? It's not concrete (except for one bridge area), it looks like a stream, but it is man made. Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] area topology
Says who? The boundary of the forest IS the road. :) This is one of religious discussions - both sides KNOW they are right, and no amount of discussion is going to change things. Unless we have a central decision making force of some sort lay down the law, (in OSM - hah!) you'll continue to see things mapped both ways. Stephen 2008/5/14 Raphaël Jacquot [EMAIL PROTECTED]: the boundary of the forrest run in parallel to the road is actually the correct way to do it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping distant objects by triangulation.
In theory, yes. In practice, maybe. You would find that if you did a third measuring line, it probably wouldn't intersect where the first two did. Small errors at the measuring end cause massive errors at the other end. Even the guys with the specialist measuring equipment working on a building site can have trouble. It's all about levers. If your first two known points are say 100 meters apart, and the object you're trying to measure is 2,000 meters away, a five meter sideways error at this end on one of the points (an easy error with a GPS) would cause a 400 meter variation at the other end. Which means if you want to do this, you need to do the following. 1) More than two lines. Three minimum, more is better. Also come from as wide an angle as possible. 2) Get your two known points as far apart as you can. If your telepone pole is halfway between you and your target, then the errors at the other end are the same as the errors at your end. 3) Make sure you mark the target source as not by GPS (maybe source=triangulation?) Stephen 2008/5/13 Jeffrey Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I couldn't find the other thread on this topic. How do you map an object, like a tower on top of a mountain, that you don't have access to without expensive survey equipment? My thought is to use a plumb bob to line up the unknown object with some known objects. I would find something like a phone pole between me and the mountain tower. I would move along a road until the pole and the tower line up. Now I have a straight line. Do it again with another strait line and I have two lines to define the location. Would that work? -- http://bowlad.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rocky beaches
Also, if you are in an area with extensive coastal swamps (mangroves for example) be aware that the PGS data usually traces the land side of the swamp. This makes sense, looking at the statement below, but the mangrove swamps can extend for many kilometres to sea, and I wouldn't want to sail through them. Stephen On 15/04/2008, Cartinus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lots of coastline in OSM comes from PGS data. According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/PGS_whitepaper This new shoreline is an approximation of the High Water Line; it is NOT a Mean High Water Line since the source data have not been tide coordinated. This of course says nothing about other coastline data. Dutch topographic maps don't consider tidal flats a part of the land. It is coloured the same colour blue as the sea, but it has lots of black dots in it. -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Sydney cycle routes
In the Brisbane Metro area, Pine Rivers shire (soon to be part of Moreton Bay) has maps available of bike routes. I looked at one to see how many there would be to map in the region. From what I can tell, they've marked every wide footpath on the map, as well as shared walkways through parks etc, and actual bike lanes. I'm wondering what tagging we should use for these footpaths. They're not actually bike lanes, but there are signs beside the footpath that show both a bike and a pedestrian, and the paths are wider than most. It is legal for a bike to use any footpath in QLD, so it's not like you can't ride anywhere else, but these are recommended routes. They tend to go between things like a Tafe and a train station, shopping centres, etc. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Number of lanes?
A number of people seem to misread the lanes tag as total lanes on the road, not lanes in each direction. A case could be made that it should be total lanes, as that would allow for asymmetric roads to be modelled. I suspect that a lot of the lanes=1 tags really mean that it is a narrow, unmarked road, not one lane each way. Stephen On 11/03/2008, Elizabeth Dodd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are definitely one lane bridges around. I hadn't actually considered the possibility until now. I looked because someone had marked a road known to me to have one lane each way as lanes=2. I'll leave it for about a week to give the other party time to reply. -- You never hesitate to tackle the most difficult problems. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Raw GPS layer
This would be good. But even better, let me select a portion of a track log and upload it. My track logs tend to be a nightmarish tangle, with possibly hours of stuff before, after and during the interesting bits. I can use them because I was there, and know where I went, when and why (this is why I take notes). But somebody looking at the raw track would actually be confusing, and possibly wrong. However - bits that I'm actually mapping tend to be much better - actually tracking roads, paths etc. If I could easily select the bad bits of the track log (just points) in JOSM and remove them, then upload the rest, I'd be willing to put them up. I keep meaning to go back over my old track logs (all of which I have) and clean them up with some 3rd party tool, bit I always seem to have new stuff to work on instead. On 22/02/2008, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we should provide a track upload facility within JOSM. I started work on that once but got distracted, maybe its time to revisit that. Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Test trace how many points on a road
There is (was?) a simplify way command available in JOSM, but you need to add one of the plugins first. Stephen On 18/02/2008, Paul Zagoridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Greg Ah I did it on Potlatch -- sorry about that. Regards Paul Greg Harper wrote, On 17/2/08 3:32 PM: Where about is the option to simplify the number of points in JOSM? I can't for the life of me find it. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Place of worship: wayside crosses
Christoph, There was some discussion about this on the list last month, (in a thread that started by talking about the Icon tag), and there is now a proposed tag as wayside_cross (there is also wayside_shrine). http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/wayside_cross Wayside crosses are not common in English speaking areas. Well, people put small white crosses up were people died in car accidents, but that's not the same thing. Stephen On 04/02/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, on the german list one inhabitant wondered how to name a proposal for wayside crosses: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croix_monumentale How do you call them in english speaking countries? What would you recommend for a proposal? An additional tag for place_of_worship or an tag of its own? Thanks best regards, ce ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] JOSM upload failure
I was uploading a big section of data when I had an connection failure of some kind, and the upload eventually timed out. It had uploaded a lot of nodes, but hadn't got as far as the ways yet. Can I assume that if I just try and upload the same data again (I have it saved) that it won't duplicate the nodes that uploaded last time? Is there some rule that says you can't have two nodes in the same place? Stephen Hope ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
