Re: [OSM-talk] What is 'Attic Data'? or 'Why can't wiki writers use plain language'.
On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 05:18:31 +0100 Marc Gemis wrote: > I wonder whether this some expression in German that is translated > literally in English. > > m. > My guess is it harks back to the habit of the wealthy people of moving the old and worn furnature up into the attics of their mansions. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] stop deleting abandoned railroads
On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 00:09:43 +0100 moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > On 22/08/2015, John Eldredge wrote: > > So, if you are looking for a route without steep grades, a former > > railway is a natural choice. > > Do people actually do this ? It sounds like a strawman argument to me. > I do a fair bit of walking and cycling, and when planing a trip I look > at the global topographic data but it never occured to me to look for > railroads. Why use the local railroad hint when you've got the global > DEM data ? How fine is the granularity of the DEM data? The DEM data I've found is about 5km. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] "Second decade" visions
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 03:54:34 +0100 Daniel Koć wrote: > W dniu 13.03.2015 13:03, Martin Koppenhoefer napisał(a): > > > indeed, man_made=works is working the same way as amenity=school, it > > is used on the whole area, and also place_of_worship is used on the > > whole sacred area (which typically coincides with the church). > > That's what we have now (forgetting the buildings functions issue for a > moment): > > amenity=school & building=school > landuse=religious & building=church > landuse=industrial/man_made=works & building=industrial (?) > > and I see the pattern like this: > > area=school & building=school > area=religious & building=church > area=industrial/works & building=works > One issue I hope those people expending mental energy on improving the tagging scheme will keep in mind are the limitations existing in GIS packages in respect of the number of fields and the maximum field length. Shape files seem to have a 64 character limit to field length (at least using osm2pgsql and QGIS v1.? all fields were truncated to 64 characters) MapInfo tables have a 255 character field length limit and can view but not edit tables of 67 fields, I was too impatient to work out the actual limit. Personally I would like to see an hierarchical tagging scheme, it would make it so much easier to extract relevant data from the .osm/pfb files. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Converting .osm file into shape file or mapinfo table
After a few months break from mapping I'm having dificulty converting .osm files into mapinfo tables. Before the break I could import the .osm into qgis then export is as needed but now Qgis wont do this. With the old wiki I could find a section that listed and described a number of tools for various manipulations of osm data, this seems to be missing or moved to somewhere not directly accessable from the wiki. Could someone help this old fool find it again please. mik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping flood
On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 19:15:49 +0100 Pieren wrote: > Someone is mapping the UK floods in OSM (reported on twitter): > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/258412163 > > Very bad idea. > > Pieren I disagree that it is a very bad idea. The primary database isn't the right place for it though. The appropriate place would be in the historical (OHM) database. In the long term mapping of flooding, bush fires, droughts, etc will become a useful resource for the increasing numbers of ordinary people studying these types of events, especially with climate change becoming more obvious. I have been in a position where this a more micro mapping of flood data would have saved me both time and money. This time last year I was planning to move from Brisbane, Queensland to Northern New South Wales. At that time there had been some major flooding. If I had reasonable micro mapping of those flood areas I could have saved my self an 800km trip to the areas I was focusing on because I would have been able to compare the flood mapping with locations I was considering and seen that all the properties within my budget were within the flooded but not included in the official, historical flood risk areas. To sum up, fine grade mapping of transient climatic data can be very useful to more than just professional but it isn't relevant on a street map. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why do we have so many registered users with zero edits ?
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:00:46 +0200 Jean-Marc Liotier wrote: > Looking at the profiles of nearby mappers displayed on my profile page's > map, I am astonished to find that most of them have made zero edits. > Those people went through the effort of registering (some even added an > avatar picture) but then did not use their account for anything - no > edits, no traces, nothing.Why ? Are these mere spam registrations or are > we actually losing good potential mappers in the first hours of their > life as Openstreetmap users ? How many of them do we have ? Do we have > logs that we can analyze to understand how they came to Openstreetmapand > how they dropped out ? > In MY case it is a matter of joining to show support firstly, to be sure of access to the full range of features (might not have been necessary) secondly and to feed in the results of my research and mapping when it reaches a suitable level of accuracy. This work is taking an order of magnitude more time than my initial guesstimate. Mick uid: sparrowhawk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who is a good mapper? Who isn't?
On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 23:04:27 -0400 Richard Weait wrote: > Ever wanted to 'dish' on another mapper? Like to gossip? Not really > Or do you just want to help improve the OSM data and community? If I can > What on Earth are you doing, Richard? Make sure you are wearing your fireproof jocks, > What makes a bad mapper? You tell me. Poor attention to detail, incompletely described submissions. Personally I consider the worst mappers to be those who put a line or point on the map with no usable description supplied, maybe just a 'created_by' and/or 'source' tags. Amazingly these same mappers, do the opposite and fully & clearly tag their work. I'll never single out anyone because I'm not in possession of all the facts. I will take this opportunity to ask ALL mappers to check their work after submission and either fix or remove it if it isn't up to standards. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OT - Unusual Bing imagery
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 21:43:19 -0400 Mike N wrote: > > I spotted this today as I was entering survey information: > > http://greenvilleopenmap.info/Airplane.jpg > >I didn't realize that the Bing planes flew so high. > What is the correct tag for the plane? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Help with Extracting feature types and all their key=values
I'm trying to extract major features - EG. roads, rivers, railways, etc. from a section of the map. For each feature I want to get all the "subkeys" that apply - EG. from highways: all types of roads for motor vehicles Name oneway yes/no bridge yes/no maxspeed maxheight ... keeping IDs, timestamp, user in tact. I was using osmosis 0.40 and osm2pgsql with partial success until I replaced archlinux with ubuntu 11.10. Now when I try: bzcat ~/Downloads/australia.osm.bz2 | ~/osmosis/bin/osmosis \ --read-xml enableDateParsing=no file=- \ --bounding-box top=-27.0 left=149 bottom=-32.1 right=153.9 \ --write-xml ~/Documents/gis/Australia/NSW/NewEngland.osm ### Coastline # ~/osmosis/bin/osmosis \ --read-xml ~/Documents/gis/Australia/NSW/NewEngland.osm \ --tf accept-nodes places=* \ --tf reject-relations \ --used-node \ --write-xml ~/Documents/gis/Australia/NSW/NewEngland/places.osm the first step works fine but the second fails with argunent 12 and 10 missing. or the output includes the ALL the points in the input file. Pointers to a GOOD tutorial(s) would be appreciated or even a direct solution if it contains hints on how to tweak it for each section. My health isn't to great currently so please forgive me if I've missed needed details, just tell me what I forgot to include. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Geofabrik downloads post-licence-change
Frederick I just read your blog and I'm amazed the amount of effort and resources that go in to the download country files I have been taking for granted. I feel we all owe you and your's a tremendous vote of thanks. Mick On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 10:47:51 +0200 Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > On 04/13/12 10:45, Stefan Keller wrote: > > One question related to this I've always wanted to ask you, is: > > When I download the newest daily extract, like e.g. > > switzerland.osm.pbf (timestamp usually around 4:00 AM), > > and I look inside the db for the most recent added node, > > this node has a creation-date of around 7 PM of the day before > > (currently node 1711815745 7:10 PM). > > I blogged about this a while ago: > http://blog.geofabrik.de/?p=75 > > The process has changed a little meanwhile but basically it's still the > same procedure. > > Bye > Frederik > > -- > Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OS maps circa 1900 wanted, will contribute to scanning cost
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:48:47 +0100 Lester Caine wrote: > mick wrote: > > Does anyone on the list possess the set of Ordinance Survey maps of > > England, Scotland& Wales of about 1900, I'm trying to map the Roman roads > > described by Thomas Codrington in his book "Roman Roads in Britain" > > published in 1903. He makes frequent reference to "the new OS map" in his > > descriptions. > Not off topic at all really, as many of us want some mechanism for easily > managing secondary layers. However MANY of the roads you are looking at in > that > book still exist today and so just need a valid 'start_date' attaching. I > have a > growing collection of maps going back into the 1800's but only an A3 scanner > which is not ideal as it has a lip around the scanning area :( > http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/view/Mapping+Index > > -- > Lester Caine - G8HFL Unfortunately when I asked earlier for help finding info about Roman roads and such, there were a few on the list stating the idea was totally offensive to them and I also received several flames of list. I guess, based on a map I trace, there are about 10% by length of them already on the map flagged as roman_road. There are about 30% more that are very close to existing roads, these are probably on, or slightly realigned from the actual course of the roman roads and my tracing lacked adequate accuracy. For example Roman Ermine Street is substantially the same shape as the modern one so I suspect my tracing has moved it a little bit to the west. My current procedure is to mark what I traced as tentative and then as I find further sources increase the confidence value. I have been adding start dates where I can find them. I have tried to scan the Australian equivalents of the OS maps on an A4 scanner and not had much luck,fortunately I have been able to download the complete set as shape files. That was why I offered to contribute to scanning costs. Ordinance Survey does a great job of making the current set for England, Scotland & Wales available as shape files but the availability of historic digital maps fall far behind, being commercialized and doled out in tiny chunks using a proprietary format, fine for people planning a day hike to transfer to their GPS but very expensive to get wider coverage and then you can't get it out in any useful format without paying extra for the uncrippled version of MemoryMap. Mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OS maps circa 1900 wanted, will contribute to scanning cost
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:37:20 +0200
Reinder Verlinde wrote:
> In article <20120329154907.4718bd61@cave.bareclan>,
> mick wrote:
>
> > Does anyone on the list possess the set of Ordinance Survey maps of
> > England,
> > Scotland & Wales of about 1900, I'm trying to map the Roman roads described
> > by Thomas Codrington in his book "Roman Roads in Britain" published in
> > 1903.
> > He makes frequent reference to "the new OS map" in his descriptions.
> >
> > I'm hoping to find shape files, MapInfo files or scans of the sheets and
> > happy to contribute around $AU100 (current exchange rate hovers around
> > ?1.00
> > = $AU1.50) to the cost of scanning the set. (I may be able to go higher if
> > needed)
> >
> > If this is off-topic I apologize and
> >
> > NO I DO NOT PLAN TO ADD THIS HISTORIC CONTENT TO THE MAP I plan to server
> > it
> > myself.
> >
> > mick
>
> Are you aware of <http://www.old-maps.co.uk>? From a quick scan, they
> may sell scans of the maps you want ("(c.1854 - c.1949) 1:2,500 (25 inch
> to 1 mile) scale pre-war County Series mapping from the Ordnance Survey"
> and "(c.1846 - c.1969) 1:10,560 (6 inch to 1 mile) scale pre-war County
> Series mapping from the Ordnance Survey.")
>
> Reinder
Thanks, I'll keep them in mind but the coverage I want will cost well over my
budget
mick
___
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[OSM-talk] OS maps circa 1900 wanted, will contribute to scanning cost
Does anyone on the list possess the set of Ordinance Survey maps of England, Scotland & Wales of about 1900, I'm trying to map the Roman roads described by Thomas Codrington in his book "Roman Roads in Britain" published in 1903. He makes frequent reference to "the new OS map" in his descriptions. I'm hoping to find shape files, MapInfo files or scans of the sheets and happy to contribute around $AU100 (current exchange rate hovers around ₤1.00 = $AU1.50) to the cost of scanning the set. (I may be able to go higher if needed) If this is off-topic I apologize and NO I DO NOT PLAN TO ADD THIS HISTORIC CONTENT TO THE MAP I plan to server it myself. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] PUBS and their changing names
A suggestion for those with an interest in mapping the locations of purveyors of mind-numbing nectors. On the genealogy lists I subscribe to there are regular requests for information about the location of pubs, inns, etc. Many of these inns have changed their name over time. Perhaps there are some people who would be interested in building up this information and sharing it. I'd do it myself but I don't have ready access to the information and I'm flat-out with my Romano-British research. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey about Incentives to contribute to OSM
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:41:40 + Nick Whitelegg wrote: > Obviously surveying us for marketing purposes is rather more iffy, and any > survey made for that purpose should be clearly warned as such. > > Nick > I was about to say these types of survey should result in the instigator being immediately removed from the list but then I thought of the case of a tool developer looking for info on directions to take or announcing new releases. The lose of those people and their contribution would hurt mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Map Co-ordinates for towns, etc in UK
On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 08:15:00 -0600 "John F. Eldredge" wrote: > mick wrote: > > > > > My original interest was if there was a specific point that said 'this > > is Sometown', where distances to adjacent towns were measured from, > > similar to the Australian convention where the "Zero Point" was set along > > the roadside, at the Post Office which was usually next door to or > > across the road from a 'coaching inn'. > > > > This point rarely had anything to do with the geographic centre of > > town but served only as a survey benchmark. > > > > As Phillip, yourself and a few other people have pointed out these > > points have little remaining relevance in current times, especially > > for routing. > > > > The only place where I've found this concept still in use is > > Queensland Rail's Brisbane suburban network, where the track at > > stations is marked with the distance to Central Station and the > > markings are maintained. > > > > mick > > > > Here in the USA, highways commonly have signs stating the distance to the > next major town. Are such distance signs no longer used in Australia? > Prior to metric conversion in 1976 Australia used white concrete posts about 1 yard tall with town initials & distances each way as in http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Milestone_Batemans_Bay_NSW_18.JPG/90px-Milestone_Batemans_Bay_NSW_18.JPG After conversion they were replaced with "International Standard" metal shields on an 8ft metal post every 5KM. With the change they no longer marked the "Zero Point". mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Map Co-ordinates for towns, etc in UK
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:14:47 -0600 "John F. Eldredge" wrote: > mick wrote: > > > On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 20:16:18 + > > Philip Barnes wrote: > > > > > I have found some interesting stuff whilst playing with routing on > > > http://open.mapquest.org (which uses OSM). Have found that it cannot > > > route to Shrewsbury. > > > > > > Have found that the town waypoint has been put in the middle of a > > retail > > > area, with pedestrianised streets around. Am guessing it is because > > it > > > is too far from a road. It works if I ask for High Street, > > Shrewsbury. > > > > > > Have moved it so that it is close to High Street and once mapquest > > has > > > updated the map I will see if it works again. But maybe this is > > > something else we should consider. > > > > > > A good example of TomTom/google getting it wrong is Ironbridge, > > where it > > > leads you into a back street, rather than the centre i.e. the > > bridge. > > > > > > > My Navman (MY50 I think) also has problems generating a route to just > > a town or suburb without a street name. > > > > At the times these towns developed very few people had a car and even > > fewer had sat-nav units so the 'rule of thumb' didn't need to take > > vehicular access into account. Now social engineers have had their > > evil way, the 'rule' joins dinosaurs, woolly mammoths and this old > > System/370 operator on the dusty shelves of the museum and its up to > > the new generations to clean up our mess. > > > > mick > > > > Another issue you are likely to encounter is a town that has grown in an > asymmetric manner, so that the current geometric center is offset, perhaps by > a large amount, from the historic center point. This is particularly true > where a natural barrier, such as a lake, adjoins the town. > > Here in the USA, some small towns that have experienced most of their growth > during the automobile age are essentially one-dimensional, extending for > several miles along a main road, but extending only a block or two at right > angles to that main road. > My original interest was if there was a specific point that said 'this is Sometown', where distances to adjacent towns were measured from, similar to the Australian convention where the "Zero Point" was set at the roadside, at the Post Office which was usually next door to or across the road from a 'coaching inn'. This point rarely had anything to do with the geographic centre of town but served only as a survey benchmark. As Phillip, yourself and a few other people have pointed out these points have little remaining relevance in current times, especially for routing. The only place where I've found this concept still in use is Queensland Rail's Brisbane suburban network, where the track at stations is marked with the distance to Central Station and the markings are maintained. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Map Co-ordinates for towns, etc in UK
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 20:16:18 + Philip Barnes wrote: > I have found some interesting stuff whilst playing with routing on > http://open.mapquest.org (which uses OSM). Have found that it cannot > route to Shrewsbury. > > Have found that the town waypoint has been put in the middle of a retail > area, with pedestrianised streets around. Am guessing it is because it > is too far from a road. It works if I ask for High Street, Shrewsbury. > > Have moved it so that it is close to High Street and once mapquest has > updated the map I will see if it works again. But maybe this is > something else we should consider. > > A good example of TomTom/google getting it wrong is Ironbridge, where it > leads you into a back street, rather than the centre i.e. the bridge. > My Navman (MY50 I think) also has problems generating a route to just a town or suburb without a street name. At the times these towns developed very few people had a car and even fewer had sat-nav units so the 'rule of thumb' didn't need to take vehicular access into account. Now social engineers have had their evil way, the 'rule' joins dinosaurs, woolly mammoths and this old System/370 operator on the dusty shelves of the museum and its up to the new generations to clean up our mess. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] QGIS v MapInfo observations
I have been using MapInfo since about 1995 and QGIS for the last year or so and have noticed some real differences in usability that I would like to share. My current project is a map of Roman Britain using data from Ordinance Survey Open Data, OpenStreetMap, English Heritage and various books and other historic maps I have found on line. The hardware I'm using is a homebrew i5 2500 cpu, 16GB RAM and a pair of average 500GB SATA drives. I'm using MapInfo v7.8 (with no additional packages) in wine on Ubuntu 11.10 (last version that I could get working in wine) and currently QGIS 1.7.4 Differences I've noticed: Georeferencing - QGIS wins hands down, it is not easy but I manage, whereas MapInfo's I can rarely get started and crash it before I get anything done. Database retrieve - QGIS is almost painless and what pain there is comes from MY not being able to set the DB up satisfactorily. MapInfo doesn't like PostGIS or mysql. Database store - I am unable to achieve in either. It SEEMS to me that something is missing in the instructions but I could be misreading them. Foreign format import - QGIS plugin is painfully slow to import OSM and could benefit from more flexibility (if I could describe what I want, I expect improvement would come), MapInfo fails. Foreign format export - MapInfo fails Editing layers - MapInfo is much easier for me to use so long as I remember to frequently save/pack tables, if I forget for too long parts of the table are lost when I do save/pack. The bulk of my editing is joining/splitting objects, converting objects between lines and polygons and adding information to the descriptive columns of objects. Those manipulations QGIS does handle are very slow on layers containing more than about 1000 objects and the layers I'm working on range from a couple of hundred objects up to 2 million (average about 200,000). At present QGIS in vital to my work and is sure to improve over time. My biggest problem is the way it seems to completely reprocess the layer each time I save an object. The 'geometry-orientation' make me need to think about what I'm doing more than the 'object-orientation' of MapInfo. MapInfo makes some if it a lot easier but I'm hitting its limitations, such as maximum field width of 254 characters, maximum number of columns - less than 67. My conclusion is that if/when the speed issues are sorted MapInfo will live in the bit-bucket. I hope this might be of some use or interest to some one and within the topic. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] WOW osmosis has found some speed
I have just updated Osmosis from v0.34 (the latest package on ubuntugis) to 0.40.1 and the speed improvement is amazing, from ~20 minutes per run to 4-5 to do: bzcat ~/Downloads/OSM/england-120225.osm.bz2 | ~/osmosis/bin/osmosis \ --read-xml enableDateParsing=no file=- \ --tf accept-ways highway=* \ --used-node \ --write-xml ~/Documents/gis/Feb25-2012/highway-120225.osm well done mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Creating a subset of OSM and storing it in Postgis tables
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:39:51 + Craig Wallace wrote: > On 25/02/2012 04:19, mick wrote: > > I need to build a database of a subset of features from a specific area, > > storing them in a series of tables according to feature type (eg. natural, > > historic, waterway, ...) from predefined subsets of the planet file. > > > > In doing this I hope to minimise: > > 1 my impact on OSM's resources > > 2 amount of data I have to download (I'm in Australia so I'm burdened with > > 20GB monthly traffic limits). > > > > My current thinking is that I need to: > > > > 1. download the weekly England, Scotland& Wales excerpts from geofabrik > > 2. merge the 3 files > > Why not use the "Great Britain" extract from Geofabrik. It includes all > of England, Scotland and Wales, so you won't need to download them > separately then merge them. > > > Craig I didn't see it there, saw the Great Britain directory and didn't think to scroll down. That certainly reduces the load. thanks mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] THANK YOU!!
a quick thank you to those mappers who have contributed a substantial amount of roman features to the map in the last few weeks. I have now got about 20% of my initial tracing of about 11,000 km of roman roads narrowed down to a comfortable level of accuracy. Many thanks mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Creating a subset of OSM and storing it in Postgis tables
I need to build a database of a subset of features from a specific area, storing them in a series of tables according to feature type (eg. natural, historic, waterway, ...) from predefined subsets of the planet file. In doing this I hope to minimise: 1 my impact on OSM's resources 2 amount of data I have to download (I'm in Australia so I'm burdened with 20GB monthly traffic limits). My current thinking is that I need to: 1. download the weekly England, Scotland & Wales excerpts from geofabrik 2. merge the 3 files 3. filter out what I don't need 4. load the rest into the db tables 5. merge in data from other sources 6. manipulate the data as I require So far 1. is fine, I can even do a script for when I need it 2. I have a very clunky answer for - convert to mapinfo tabs, copy 1 file to a new file, then manually copy the contents of the other two to the new file. 3. I can just about make very slow headway with by manually deleting individual redundant objects 4. failure - I can't get my head around the complexity of db design. 5. can do somewhat within the constraints of parts 1 - 4 not being solved. 6. I can manage within the constraints of parts 1 - 4 not being solved. I think my main problem is not being able to apply tools like osmosis and osm2pgsql due to the docs being rather too abstract for me to see the answer, maybe I'm loosing my mental agility. Is there anyone out there who can point me to simplified instructions or has the time and patience to help me with any part of the above. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Map Co-ordinates for towns, etc in UK
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:31:31 - "Andy Robinson" wrote: > If you refer to old OS maps the location of the place name seems most often > to be positioned in relation to certain specific features. Where there is a > parish church they seem to use that, where not its often the post office or > the village pub, if none of these are present then some central other > communal feature of the hamlet for instance. Of course this could just be a > be cartographic approach taken by the OS. > > Cheers > Andy > This suggests that there is no formal definition for placement of the "Zero Point" and a common sense approach is taken. >From a number of hints in some of the genealogy lists I'm on, in .au the post >office and a 'coaching inn' were usually either next door to or opposite each >other and sometimes they were the same building. thanks mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Map Co-ordinates for towns, etc in UK
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:45:06 + p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: > There is no grid system for UK towns, however where the main post office is > or was is a reasonable approach to positioning the town centre. > > In terms of villages the church is usually the best. > > That make a lot of sense to me, the church has been the focal point of the village since Saxon times while the Post Office didn't appear until the 19th? century. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Map Co-ordinates for towns, etc in UK
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:20:13 + Lester Caine wrote: > kenneth gonsalves wrote: > >> Can some one advise me of the official policy for locating the centre > >> > of towns in the UK, i.e. the spot on the map for a point representing > >> > the town and used as the Zero Point for measuring distances to other > >> > towns. > > in India it is usually the head post office. > > In the UK nowadays you will be lucky to find a post office at all ... ;) > Australia is going the same way in moving to Postal Agents and relocating the remaining Post Offices to obscure, out of the way locations so I doubt there is any formal criteria to define these points. They are becoming 'just another curious folk-way', as evidenced by the lack of 'Zero-Points' in .au since metric conversion. thanks mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Map Co-ordinates for towns, etc in UK
I hope this isn't off-topic, if so I apologise. Can some one advise me of the official policy for locating the centre of towns in the UK, i.e. the spot on the map for a point representing the town and used as the Zero Point for measuring distances to other towns. In Australia this was taken as the centre of the road and the middle of the plot of land occupied by Post Office and marked by a triangular concrete mile post painted white with black characters about 1 metre high with a bevelled top. the vertical faces visibly from the road indicated the distance to the next town in the direction of travel. The upper face on the '0' post showed the distance to the state capital. I was told this by a NSW Dept of Main Roads Clerk of Works about 1973. When the roads went metric in 1976 these posts rapidly disappeared, replaced by "International Standard" metal posts with green shields marking the 5 KM intervals but with no 'Zero Post'. A few towns kept their Zero Posts and moved them to a park. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Size & number of Keys (was osm2pgsql hstore)
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 19:09:33 + Graham Jones wrote: > Yes - I think it is just a style difference - I am quite happy to interpret > it from context for the sake of having a smaller number of unique keys to > think about. > Fewer Unique keys keys are a good thing, especially if they are as terse as is reasonable. I use MapInfo v7.8[1] for most of my editing and constantly run into problems with the number of keys and the total length of the key/tag space due to limitations. When I used osm2pgsql to load the database then use QGIS[2] to export to a MapInfo table I end up with a table that exceeds MapInfo's number of columns limit, and because of the way QGIS's OSM plugin works, about half the objects have a combined tag space that exceeds the MapInfo column size limit of 254 characters. In about 1/3 of those objects name of object and type of object (e.g. road, river, ...) get truncated. I can workaround these issues but it takes a lot of time so I ask all mappers to please think about weather that tag you are adding is really necessary. I am not saying don't use them, just be sparing. I would also appreciate any suggestions that might help me get around these issues in a simpler way than manually editing the .osm file [1] I have been using MapInfo since the mid 1990's and v7.8 is the last release I can get working in Linux under Wine. [2] QGIS works quite well until you get more than 1 or 2,000 objects, more than that slows it down to a crawl. I am running Ubuntu 11.04 on a core i5 2500 with 16 gb ram. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Critical Mass for license change-over
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:49:43 +1100 Nick Hocking wrote: > (1) I always exaggerate is that an exaggeration too? mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Critical Mass for license change-over
If the LWG had done their job, they would have presented their algorithm for stripping the map at the time they made their decision instead of letting things drag on for months as they have done. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How I got here
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 13:59:54 +1100 Nick Hocking wrote: > mick Wrote > > "I was pointed here by someone on the Devon list at the rootsweb genealogy " > > > Hi mick > > When I map a country town I am always on the lookout for any cemetery. > I find some very obscure ones and always put them on the map. > > What are your feelings about putting individual gravestone info into > OSM such as the persons name and maybe date and grave location > (row, number ???). It would be good for searching and to get the > same sat nav, that got you to the cemetry, to walk you to the grave > itself. > > Does this data belong in OSM or should it be a seperate layer > looked after by Genealogists somewhere else. I think separate layers would be best, it would be of little interest to the vast majority of users. Another case where OSM could be much greater if it supported 'optional layers/themes'. > > PS I bet you didn't know that there were 3 graves on the Narooma Golf > course (closest bit to Montague Island). I haven't mapped them yet > since I'm not sure about the advisability of getting non golfers > to trundle across the fairways amoungst poolry guided small white > missiles ;-) Yes, I was aware of graves on the course but not of the number. I used to live just up the road from Narooma, in Batemans Bay from 1988 to 2001, when I moved to Brisbane. Mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] How I got here - was Geocaching.com moved to OSM (partly)
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:45:55 +1100 Nick Hocking wrote: > Ben wrote > > "That's exactly how I ended up here." > > > Me too! - a fellow cacher told me about OSM and, of course, the cunning > devil > made sure he hadn't mapped my street. > I was pointed here by someone on the Devon list at the rootsweb genealogy site when I was looking for the names and locations of Parish Churches. I had seen the site before but (mis)interpreted the rule along the lines of 'must be your own work' as meaning you had to go out with your GPS and do your own survey. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:43:27 + Graham Jones wrote: > Hi Mick, > > On 14 January 2012 05:28, mick wrote: > > > > > My goal was to create a 'Bastard Son of OSM' as a means to share my work > > with those people of similar interest but, as OSM has no ability to offer > > user selected layers I'm looking at other options. > > > > Please let us know which option you settle on - I would be interested to > see how that works. > > I think I misunderstood your original question. I see now that you were > proposing to set up a completely different system, based on the OSM > software. One example of my long-term goals (I'll leave them to my Grandchildren ;) ) is to be able to take say an layer containing prehistoric monumental and settlement features and look at the extent to which the Romans developments respected these. In the fullness of time and with plenty of support, I'd like to see layers to cover all periods of history covered. This requires a renderer / display set up that allows the use to select what features you want and filter out those you don't. > > You could easily use the existing OSM software to produce different map > layers for display based on start/end date / civilization / period etc. for > display to users (as long as you tag the features in the map with these!). > > Do you mean editor support for 'layers' to make it easy to edit only > features with a specific start/end date / civlization etc.?The JOSM > editor allows you to filter data ( > http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Dialog/Filter), which could give you > a similar effect (e.g. only display data tagged as civilization=roman > etc.). I am not sure if you can do that in Potlatch though. I am no where near that advanced yet, I'm still sifting a few 17th - early 20th century books for the rough courses of the roads and camps,settlements, forts and towns and plotting them in Mapinfo layer files, and using converted OSM & OS opendata layers for the base layers eg. coastlines, rivers settlements. > > Therefore I think you could achieve what you want with existing OSM > software. Maybe a bit of customisation to make editing easier or to allow > filtering on date ranges. What I can see of OSM the editing tools are quite good, though they could/should be enhanced if my goals reach 'critical mass'. The rendrering engine will require significant enhancement to support selectable layers unless I have missed something. Mick Kurwongbah, Qld, Au > Regards > > Graham. > -- > Graham Jones > Hartlepool, UK. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:40:13 -0500 Russ Nelson wrote: > Felix Hartmann writes: > > The thing is - historic data that doesn't exist anymore is inappropriate > > because it is confusing for anyone contributing to OSM. > > Yes and no. When you have buildings laid out in a rectangular grid, > but there are triangular bits cut out of them, that begs for an > explanation. When that explanation is a not-longer-present railroad, I > feel confident in adding it. That allows people to go on-site and find > other railroad artifacts, like rails still embedded in the street, or > buildings which still have railroad boxcar-spaced doors. > > So in this particular context, as long as there is still evidence of > the Roman road, even if the road no longer exists as a right-of-way, > it makes sense to add it to OSM. > Much Of what I am working on remains only of short stretches, if visible, then only as regular lumps in the ground, more often it is reflected by sections of parish boundaries, fence lines or lines of trees and can only be verified by archaeological digs that could little more than than the foundation trench of up to an almost complete road surface. Many sections of the Roman roads were looted in the 18th & 19th centuries for material by the Turnpike Trusts, so in a sense are still there in the foundations of modern roads. At the other end of the scale are many main highways that follow the same course as the Roman roads with relics of them to be found were recent re-alignments have left them exposed. Whatever the case, OSM is not really the natural home for the network, except were they remain on the surface or as a Scheduled Monument, and in those cases only the particular sections. My goal was to create a 'Bastard Son of OSM' as a means to share my work with those people of similar interest but, as OSM has no ability to offer user selected layers I'm looking at other options. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 23 ideas for osm and its forks
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 02:00:17 +0100 Mike Dupont wrote: > Hello world, > > I have written down all my ideas so far on an ideascale i setup > >http://fosm.ideascale.com/ > > here you have 23 new ideas for #osm, > independent of how they are implemented, all applicable to osm commonmap > fosm etc. > you are invited to join the conversation. > > lets make the world a better place > > happy hacking, > > mike > I applaud your efforts, OSM is good and has the potential to be truly great if more people thought about what could be done instead of shouting down any ideas that vary from their own blinkered vision. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 19:10:25 + Lester Caine wrote: > Vladimir Vyskocil wrote: > > I agree 100% with you, the main OSM database couldn't be used for > > everything, it has been designed to map the existing world (one road after > > one) not the whole history ! > > There would be no change what so ever to the database to RECORD the very > history > that we are currently all actively gathering. Rather than DELETING material, > it > just gets marked as 'old' so claiming that the the existing database 'has > been > designed to map the existing world' is simply a false assumption. It already > HAS > to manage work that has yet to be completed, and retain work that is in the > process of being reworked. Deleting that information has nothing to do with > how > the database work ... like the licensing rules it's purely a political > decision. > HISTORY of changes is already being logged ... so the information IS already > in > the database ... it is how we access it that is the only technical question. > > -- Speaking ONLY for myself, I never intended for the historical work I am doing to become part of the main stream OSM database but if OSM was to see value in expanding in that direction I would be glad to contribute. The association of my work and OSM is that I am using Coastline, River, Peak and Town data from OSM as the greater part of my base layers. I am also using OS Open Data plus a number of datasets from around the web. When I get to the point of having something to share I was contemplating creating a 'Bastard son of open street map' as a mechanism to share it. The thinking behind this idea is that OSM has a somewhat complete range of tools and a very good presentation. >From my reading of the wiki I could see that what I am producing is outside >the remit of OSM and had no intention inserting it in OSM. I requested data on the mailing list because I thought there would be like minded people subscribed to it. I did manage to get some good pointers from some readers, for which I am very grateful. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Roman road map of Britain
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 18:22:25 +0100 Michael Collinson wrote: > Dear Keith, > > I found your Roman road maps > http://keithbriggs.info/Roman_road_maps.html and greatly enjoyed looking > at them. Thank you for making them available. > > I wonder if you would be willing to share the coordinate data used to > map the roads? I am an OpenStreetMap contributor > http://www.openstreetmap.org . I also have an interest in mapping UK > roman roads and historic mining sites so that anyone can make specialist > maps from the data. One resource the project has developed is the > ability to trace directly from out-of-copyright Ordnance Survey maps. I > am using this but it is a slow business and we cannot use anything > published later than the 1950s (crown copyright is 50 years). > > You can see our progress here: http://maps3.org.uk/tiles/historic.html > Roman roads are marked in blue. All the underlying data is publicly > available from the project's database. > > I am also cc'ing Mick who has an independent interest in the same area. > > Regards, > Mike > > Michael Collinson > > PS Just reading http://keithbriggs.info/Bayes_placenames-2.html . It is > fascinating. > > I have my 'close approximation' digitisation of Keith Briggs full map of roads and places as separate MapInfo layers I could send you although I am a bit concerned about copyright, Briggs seems to have worked from a book by Margary that was published in 1957 so is still under copyright. If needed I know I could convert it to ESRI shape file, think I can convert to OSM XML file too but I'd need to research that one. I have been using Bill Thayer's Lacus Curtius site http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/Europe/Great_Britain/_Periods/Roman/home.html It seems to be down right now, it seems to do that every holiday weekend. let me know mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 18:03:22 +0100 Michael Collinson wrote: > On 02/01/2012 16:27, mick wrote: > > Thanks for the info, I'll take it on board. > > > > Currently I'm working on extracting the roads and modern& roman place > > names from Thomas Codrington's 1903 book, 'Roman Roads in Britain', and > > over-laying it onto OSM's historic=roman_roads, historic=city_walls, city, > > town, village, hamlet and waterway data. I haven't got as far as converting > > anything to OSM yet. I'm also using OS OpenData Vector files to fill in > > gaps. Its quite a chore to pick just the places relevant to the roman roads > > from the all of England, Scotland and Wales I've downloaded. > > > > I'm also on the lookout for the 1912 3rd edition which includes some > > updates and corrections. > > > > mick > > > > Great, it is nice to have someone else interested in this. It spurred me > to fill in some of the roads in Yorkshire and Lancashire today, (as > historic=road, historic:civilisation=roman). Graham will also update his > map as soon as he has time. > > FYI, when I first started, I also found an individual who had done a > similar sort of thing (just roads) and published his work on a website. > Unfortunately it was maps only not data but he might provide. I think I > have just found it again http://keithbriggs.info/Roman_road_maps.html . > I will email him and cc you. > > Good luck with your project, > Mike > I have copies of those maps and have even made a go of digitising the 'All Roads' png image with mixed success. The low (web friendly) resolution of the image coupled with the further, cascading loss of resolution going through QGIS's geo-reference tool meant that near to +- 1 kilometre accuracy. After about 10 attempts I only have 3 roads running along the wrong side of coastline and several coinciding with their counterparts in the historic=roman_road data. I had lost the link to that site so thanks for that. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 15:47:15 + Lester Caine wrote: > The only question that still has not been addressed is one that covers a lot > of > parallel data. SHOULD it be uploaded to the main database, or should we have > a > working method for linking secondary databases into the rendering process. > Which > to my mind still provides the most logical way forward. But at what point > does > an historic element get degraded to the secondary storage area? Or more > important ... what classifies historic data as being 'main stream'? > Historic data is 'main stream' when it is still visible in the landscape and becomes secondary when it stops being visible, for example a Tudor Manor House that has been wholly swallowed by a later mansion would be a target for the secondary stream but its Coach House that was remodelled, leaving its Tudor Heritage visible in the facade would remain in the main stream. MY OPINION FROM A GLANCE AND A GUESS AT THE RULES mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features
On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:02:59 + Joseph Reeves wrote: > >I must have had a "blond moment" when I tried searching for "start_date" > as I got no results there. > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:start_date > > The idea would be to include start_date and end_date keys to enable a > temporal GIS approach to the data. An online map could include a time > slider, for example, that would respect these keys and show the requested > features. > It was a major 'blonde moment', I just realised you were saying to ADD start & end date tags, rather than search for them in the existing data mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features
On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:35:07 + Joseph Reeves wrote: > Hi Mick, > > There's plenty of resources out there that you should be able to gleam data > from. A short list, for example: > > http://pleiades.stoa.org/home > http://www.ahds.ac.uk/archaeology/collections/index.htm > http://finds.org.uk/ > https://googleancientplaces.wordpress.com/ > http://mapdata.thehumanjourney.net/vgswandb_map.html > http://library.thehumanjourney.net/view/subjects/UK-Roman.html > http://www.wessexarch.co.uk/projects/period/roman > > [Disclaimer, I'm responsible for one or two of those] > > Some of these will give you data in formats you've asked for - plenty more > wont. Much of the data you want hasn't been recorded digitally, so you're > either going to have to start digitising yourself, or rely on the recent > work of others. There's a bit of an introduction to our Pottery Kilns of > Roman Britain map here: > http://mapdata.thehumanjourney.net/vgswandb_index.html In short, there was > a lot of manual work involved in that one. > > The problem is going to be license issues. Not all archaeologists are as > eloquent with their licensing discussions as the OSM community is... > > As Martin said, the key "start_date" might be interesting. > > Cheers, Joseph Many thanks, much to be going on with. I started with some low-res images of roads from Bill Thayer's "LacusCurtius" site: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/home.html and after a dozen or so tries managed to get a layer that varied between 10 metres and 5 km error and am in the process of re-aligning that with the sections of Roman roads from OSM (results from using the search for "roman" in QGIS->attribute table). I am also working through "Roman Roads in Britain" by Thomas Codrington to find useful information. I must have had a "blond moment" when I tried searching for "start_date" as I got no results there. I have a small list of references to search for but I just thought/hoped some mappers might have bits they have done that don't fit the "visible on the ground" requirement. Copyright and licencing is a concern as I don't really understand the relevant laws. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features
I am putting out a request for surveys of Romano-British features to include in my attempt to create a map of Roman era Britain. Suggested features: Roads & Bridges Camps, Stations & settlements Villas Cemeteries & Temples Town & City walls and Gates Ideally details would include feature name, feature type, period, submitter name, source, reliability. Preferred format is MapInfo, ESRI Shape file or osm xml, I know I can process these formats - other formats I would have to struggle with. I have already collected what I can recognise as roman from OSM and I'm after feature that are too ephemeral for inclusion in OSM, eg. excerpts from archaeological investigations etc. My goal is to make the results available in an online system, either OSM-like or QGIS server. thanks in advance mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM osm2psql global data - 10 days
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:50:55 +0700 Frans Thamura wrote: > hi all > > my server just finished load the 250GB data of OSM data (global data) > to our psql, using osm2psql, wow almost 10 days... > and I thought 4 hours to load south-west England was bad mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Harming the community
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 23:56:01 -0500 Serge Wroclawski wrote: > It seems every six months or so, a new set of license troll > "discussions" come up. > > It's the same people. I can name names if necessary, but I think the > old timers mostly know who the trolls are by now. > > They suck energy from the lists, they suck energy from the projects. > They criticize the process, they say moving forward is "harming the > community". They bitch, they moan, they are "helpful", they throw up > procedural roadblocks. > > And they get old timers involved, and newbies confused/scared, and I'm > sick of it. > > > OSMF- stop being wimps and start standing up for the project. Stop > hiding behind procedure, and start working toward cohesion and > momentum. Free discussion is important, but allowing a community to do > its work is also important, and when the same trolls infect the lists > over and over, it's time to say no, and to confront their nonsense > with clear facts, clear communication, and clear action. > > I suggest that, for the immediate situation, a few things happen: > > 1. The LWG appoint a single person to speak for the LWG/OSMF on this > matter. That one person can make definitive statements, and not be > stiffled with committee talk. > > 2. The LWG put out clear guidelines on what's happening, when, and > how. What data will be removed, how we can identify it, when it's > going away, and how we can fix it. > > 3. The list moderators need to step up and do their jobs. This > nonsense is disruptive and it needs to end. Discussion is fine, but > inflammatory language and lies are not. > > > I'm feeling quite frustrated. I care about this project and I'm > needing to be able to be productive, and this stuff seriously detracts > from being able to accomplish that. > > - Serge Well said mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Moderating / Quality checking OSM contributions -- was: Re: OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:58:30 +0100 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2011/12/7 mick : > >> Martijn van Exel wrote: > >> That's an interesting thought, but part of the excitement of > >> contributing to OSM is the instant gratification of seeing your own > >> improvements on the map and being able to share your knowledge with > >> the world right away. Having new contributors make their first > >> contributions in a sandbox environment takes away a lot of that > >> excitement. Moreover, I think it's important for novices to feel the > >> responsibility and power of > >> editing a live database, something they will only be able to > >> appreciate if they actually do it. > > > +1 > > > > The logic?? behind my suggestion for a sandbox is that, especially in the > > earliest stages is that the stupid mistakes can be made and a form of > > instant gratification is presented by the dummy server/site which is > > running a sacrificial subset of OSM. > > > there is AFAIK a sandbox on the devserver, but I agree with Martijn: > better start with learning responsibility and edit the real data. > > > >> Sure, they will make mistakes at first. Everyone does. It's no big > >> deal, as long as people are willing to improve and learn. I for one am > >> glad that not many of my early 2007 edits are still around. > > > > I have to admit that my idea of a dummy or testing/learning server would > > help me with my own project - mapping of historic objects that may only > > remain as stains and other archaeology under the ground, such as Roman > > Roads, Marching Camps etc. > > > interesting. I suggest you have a look at the keys > historic:civilization, > historic=road/archaeological_site/aqueduct/tomb/..., ruins=yes I have been including items with those tags but a lot of what I'm seeking to map is only visible to geophysical survey or archaeological digs therefore not eligible for inclusion on OSM. I am starting with OSM data as a base layer to tie the details onto and as a source of data. I thought using a discrete OSM like server would save me having to reinvent the wheel, particularly if others felt an urge to share. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Moderating / Quality checking OSM contributions -- was: Re: OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
On Tue, 6 Dec 2011 22:11:03 -0700 Martijn van Exel wrote: > On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:23 PM, mick wrote: > [..] > >> If OSM is taught in the classroom and this results in lots of errors, > >> then either OSM was not the right subject to teach, or was not taught > >> well ;) > > > > Letting utter novices loose on live data strikes me as crazy, they will > > make dumb mistakes that even a GOOD instructor could easily miss, what > > would it take to provide a 'dummy' server that could be readily be > > downloaded and installed at the training site, perhaps along the lines of a > > 'LiveCD'. > > That's an interesting thought, but part of the excitement of > contributing to OSM is the instant gratification of seeing your own > improvements on the map and being able to share your knowledge with > the world right away. Having new contributors make their first > contributions in a sandbox environment takes away a lot of that > excitement. Moreover, I think it's important for novices to feel the > responsibility and power of > editing a live database, something they will only be able to > appreciate if they actually do it. The logic?? behind my suggestion for a sandbox is that, especially in the earliest stages is that the stupid mistakes can be made and a form of instant gratification is presented by the dummy server/site which is running a sacrificial subset of OSM. This also allows demonstration of some of the uglier mistakes novices make. Based on my experience school boys are sure to do things an sane adult will see as dangerous and/or destructive. Once they meet a basic standard they would move on to the live data. I have been 'playing' with computer mapping, on and off, since about 1996 and still mess up my data to the point that deleting the lot and starting again is the easiest option, especially since I started trying to make sense of the sometimes anarchic tagging I have encountered in OSM and OS Open Data's separation of labels from the objects they apply to. > > Sure, they will make mistakes at first. Everyone does. It's no big > deal, as long as people are willing to improve and learn. I for one am > glad that not many of my early 2007 edits are still around. I have to admit that my idea of a dummy or testing/learning server would help me with my own project - mapping of historic objects that may only remain as stains and other archaeology under the ground, such as Roman Roads, Marching Camps etc. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Moderating / Quality checking OSM contributions -- was: Re: OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model
On Tue, 6 Dec 2011 17:45:37 +0100 Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, 6 Dec 2011 14:37:32 + > "Jaakko Helleranta.com" wrote: > > That is: as the contributors' tech-savvyness decreases we see a clear > > hike in various sorts of data problems. > > ... > > > Not having _something_ like this is a major problem. > > There is an obvious alternative solution - if OpenStreetMap is too > complex for non-tech-savvy users, then don't bring them. _I_ believe that approach will result in a withering and increasingly _exclusive_ project. > > There are people who actively recruit non-tech-savvy people to > OpenStreetMap; maybe instead of requesting a change in OpenStreetMap > which you might not be able to help with, maybe you should petition > those people to stop what they're doing, or train users better! If you recruit non-tech-savvy people you SHOULD be guiding them towards quality work, within the scope of the project. At the same time OSM should to grow to simplify accurate data entry, particularly in regard to CLEAR CONCISE tagging. The raw recuits of today include people who, once they learn, will help carry the project forward in the future > > If OSM is taught in the classroom and this results in lots of errors, > then either OSM was not the right subject to teach, or was not taught > well ;) Letting utter novices loose on live data strikes me as crazy, they will make dumb mistakes that even a GOOD instructor could easily miss, what would it take to provide a 'dummy' server that could be readily be downloaded and installed at the training site, perhaps along the lines of a 'LiveCD'. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Aerial photo offsets
On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 19:38:06 +0900 Andrew Errington wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere, but I am wondering what can be > done about the need for aerial photo offsets. There's very little in the > wiki[1] > > In Korea (as elsewhere, I assume) the aerial photos are not always accurately > aligned with reality. Across the country different offsets are needed > (sometimes no offset). What I do is look for a set of GPS traces from a very > visible landmark and then use them to align the aerials. If there are none I > will often find a visible landmark, such as a park, or a running track in a > stadium, and make several GPS traces of my own on different days, so that I > can use them to line up the aerials. I know that one trace is insufficient. > When I first got my GPS (Garmin GPS 60) I traced the fence lines at home. I found that the accuracy was not very good - between +- 12 to 30 metres so I traced the GPS unit on the top of each post so I could accurately repeat the logging then took readings each day, at different times, and plotted them in a CAD program with a circle centred on the reading with a radius of the error range. At the end of the month almost all the circles were reduced to under 1/2 a metre. I guess everyone knows this trick. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 'wget'ing largish portion of planetOSM
On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 13:50:14 +0100 Lester Caine wrote: > Mick wrote: > > I hadn't thought of UK as being Northern Europe, I looked in Western > > Europe. > That's where they hid it ;) > I'd found the Isle of Man ... > That really threw me, I'd seen several references to England/UK being on that site. I guess oldtimers disease is catching up with me :( ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 'wget'ing largish portion of planetOSM
On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:37:22 +0200 Frederik Ramm wrote: > Mick, > > On 10/20/11 08:22, Mick wrote: > > I've downloaded all of UK from nick.dev.openstreetmap.org and > > extracted the bit I want, its a bit old (28 Oct 2009) but mayhap I > > can update it without massive downloads. I've got most of the area > > current to last week. > > It's your decision entirely of course but I utterly fail to > understand why you use 2-year-old data and batter all available APIs > with tons of requests when you can easily get CURRENT data for ALL OF > THE UK from downloads.cloudmade.com or download.geofabrik.de, both > linked from the planet page that has been pointed out to you. > I hadn't thought of UK as being Northern Europe, I looked in Western Europe. Found england.shapefiles.zip and am downloading it now. I guess I was preoccupied with finding closer to just the area I wanted and not thinking straight. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 'wget'ing largish portion of planetOSM
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 22:58:41 -0700 Paul Norman wrote: > > From: Mick [mailto:bare...@tpg.com.au] > > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] 'wget'ing largish portion of planetOSM > > > > On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 22:58:28 -0400 > > Richard Weait wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Mick wrote: > > > > I have been struggling to get a largish chunk of open street map > > > > covering an area from the Isles of Scilly in the south west to > > > > Bristol [ ... ] > > > > > > The Planet page points to a number of planet extracts. Will one > > > of the UK-like extracts work for you? > > > > > Sadly, no, the area is split between southwest, south, swales & > > oxford extracts with 1 to 5 mile gaps between. > > > > I have tried to fill the gaps using the export to xml feature of the > > online map but that requires a (for me at least) mind bending array > > of inconsistently sized bits. > > Would the united_kingdom extract at > http://downloads.cloudmade.com/europe/northern_europe/united_kingdom > work? > > If not, you could try the jxapi. It is more reliable than the old > xapi, although the osm.org hosted one is currently down for > maintenance. Mapquest runs one, the details are at > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Xapi#Java > I've downloaded all of UK from nick.dev.openstreetmap.org and extracted the bit I want, its a bit old (28 Oct 2009) but mayhap I can update it without massive downloads. I've got most of the area current to last week. Now for a couple of weeks 'normalizing' the tags and load it into postgis. Thanks to all who replied mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 'wget'ing largish portion of planetOSM
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 22:58:28 -0400 Richard Weait wrote: > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Mick wrote: > > I have been struggling to get a largish chunk of open street map > > covering an area from the Isles of Scilly in the south west to > > Bristol [ ... ] > > The Planet page points to a number of planet extracts. Will one of > the UK-like extracts work for you? > Sadly, no, the area is split between southwest, south, swales & oxford extracts with 1 to 5 mile gaps between. I have tried to fill the gaps using the export to xml feature of the online map but that requires a (for me at least) mind bending array of inconsistently sized bits. mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] 'wget'ing largish portion of planetOSM
I have been struggling to get a largish chunk of open street map covering an area from the Isles of Scilly in the south west to Bristol in the north east using commands like: wget -t 0 http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/api/xapi?map[bbox=-6.41,49.85,-1.68,51.56] -O souwest.osm but all I can get is an error - 'connection reset by peer' or 'timeout' I also tried: wget -t 0 http://www.overpass-api.de/api/xapi?relation[bbox=-6,49.8,-1.0,51.6][natural=*] -O souwest-relation-natural.osm but this required dozens of individual transaction to get results osmosis refused to read. am I biting off more than the server can chew or using the wrong procedure? could some kind soul point me in the right direction mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
