Re: [talk-ph] Announcing: OSM-PH Marikina Mapping Party
Hi, One week to go for the Marikina Mapping Party. For those interested, please confirm here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_Party/Marikina or here http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=325986027476#!/event.php?eid=325986027476ref=ts I need a list of experienced OSMers so that we can pair them with the newbies fieldwork. If you will bring a GPS unit or a laptop, let me know. Planning page is here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_Party/Marikina/Planning If anyone, wants to help please do. Specifically: 1. Banner design 2. A simple pamphlet to give newbies a rough introduction to OpenStreetMap and the scheduled activities for the day cheers, maning On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: One problem we'll have is where in SM City Marikina do we plan to hold the editing sessions. I think we may need to get a reservation somewhere and where there are power outlets for the laptops. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 8:31 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: In regards to the event, where would we be meeting exactly, what if someone had no internet but wanted to join, they couldnt just go to those big malls, an exact location is needed too maybe. I intend to visit the venue this week to locate the exact meeting place (+- 10 meters) Andre ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[talk-ph] Announcing: OSM-PH Marikina Mapping Party
Ah very nice page design. Does OSM not have some kind of standard pamphlet for an intro to OSM and mapping using JOSM or potchlatch? I might go if I'm available that day and maybe we can get our docs agreed upon and signed there. Will bring car and Blackberry GPS+Laptop if ever :) Andre ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[talk-ph] Announcing: OSM-PH Marikina Mapping Party
- Will we be needing walking papers? Is anyone going to print them all, should we bring a printer perhaps or print them beforehand :) - If we print walking papers will someone have a scanner? :) Or do we use a digicam haha - Will there be banners for the cars, and information sheets incase people ask wth we're doing. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[talk-ph] MapZen POI Collector
Does anyone here use MapZen by CloudMade for mapping or has tried the IPhone POI Collector? My wife has a IPhone 2G so I'm gonna try it out and hope it works without GPS :) http://mapzen.cloudmade.com/mapzen-poi-collector Would be cool if we could use that to collect POI info during the mapping party. Does anyone know of any other OSM POI collectors for mobile phones? I want one for my BB. Andre ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[OSM-talk-be] New project
Hi all, I may have the opportunity to contribute to OSM in a pretty extensive way but i'm not sure if it is doable or usefull. We are a delivery company and we have distribution rounds but they are stricly abstract; no mapping is involved, just lists of streets. We want to import these round into a mapping system to calculate possible times, distances, related costs, etc...We would do this by physically giving the deliverers a gps-tracing device and importing these traces into the system. Once for each round. We would redo this when new streets are needed that are not on the map. Because we are a small company we will not be able to buy maps so OSM is the best option for us. We want to contribute by uploading our gps traces. Now i have a few questions is this regard: - How is the map evolving (specifically in the area of flanders). Are there lots of mappers? How accurate are the maps already? - Is it usefull to upload just the gps traces and can we then count on the OSM-community to name the streets etc...? We have few people and even less time to start naming all the streets. Are there perhaps people that want to do this or will we have to do this mostly ourselves? The data would be gradually available over a period of about six months. - Is there a standard way of adding housenumbers (or ranges of) to the map? - Is it ok to just start using the data? Almost all software will be custom developed. Part of our descision to go for OSM depends on the community that exists already. If this project succeeds we would be adding over 4 streets to the map (and possibly much more) so it's at least worth considering! This project is just starting so any suggestions, remarks,... are more than welcome! Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] New project
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: - How is the map evolving (specifically in the area of flanders). Are there lots of mappers? How accurate are the maps already? I'm not very knowledgeable, being from the Netherlands myself, but I would say: variable. Some cities and villages have been mapped in exquisite detail (for example, if a street in Antwerpen is not on OSM, it must be because it doesn't exist), others leave quite a lot to be wished for. - Is it usefull to upload just the gps traces and can we then count on the OSM-community to name the streets etc...? We have few people and even less time to start naming all the streets. Are there perhaps people that want to do this or will we have to do this mostly ourselves? The data would be gradually available over a period of about six months. As they say, baat het niet, dan schaadt het niet. They might just sit and wait on the server, but they might also be picked up by someone. - Is there a standard way of adding housenumbers (or ranges of) to the map? Yes, there's a tag addr:housenumber that can be put on a point. For ranges, one can put the range on the point, or use the interpolation from the so-called Karlsruher schema, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/House_numbers/Karlsruhe_Schema - Is it ok to just start using the data? Almost all software will be custom developed. Definitely! It's nice to have a map to look at, but so much better to have a map that people actually use! -- André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] New project
Ben Abelshausen wrote: - How is the map evolving (specifically in the area of flanders). Are there lots of mappers? How accurate are the maps already? Depends of course. Some cities like Antwerp are almost complete, but if you look to neighbouring municipalities it's not difficult to find missing streets. And then there are areas where coverage is very basic. It all depends on where the mappers are of course, and since cities have more inhabitants, chances of finding them there are bigger... Putting a number on the mappers is very difficult. - Is it usefull to upload just the gps traces and can we then count on the OSM-community to name the streets etc...? Do you have the street names yourself when you make the traces available? If not, it'll probably sit in the database until a mapper visits the place himself, and if those places are remote, it can take a long time. If you do have the street names something may have to be set up which would just allow mappers to go through the database and add the data to OSM in a more systematic way. - Is it ok to just start using the data? Almost all software will be custom developed. Yes sure, that's why this project is there: make map data available that anyone can use without (almost) any strings attached. Greetings Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
All, Dirk (the current JOSM maintainer) has just announced on josm-dev that JOSM will move to Java6 around the end of this month. This means that anyone who does not have Java6 may continue to work with the current JOSM release but will not be able to use the new builds from April on. Backports will be possible but will likely imply a loss of functionality, and the core JOSM team is not going to provide backports. Java6 has been around for more than three years now (and other OSM software, e.g. Osmosis, already depends on it) so if you are still using an older version it might be time to upgrade. (If you are in the unfortunate situation of having willfully chained yourself to one Hardware/OS supplier and that supplier is unwilling to release Java6 for your platform, it may be time to finally ditch that supplier.) Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
For one of OSM GSoC'10 projects I would like to suggest unofficial guide for mapping. We all know that there is a little haos in tagging (some says it's good, some says it bad), but so far biggest confusion comes from not how to tag things, but how to tag complex situations or how to even map complex situations (and that's without even taking micro mapping into account). What we need is nice guide where is said - basic roads are maped like this, crossroads created this way, this must be connected with that, etc. It would also create a nice little base for futher experiments and ideas. There's nothing wrong with seeking out alternative tags or ways of mapping, but this at least should be documented somewhere. More or less everyone who would take this task would have to go trough all archives, look for discusions and conlusions (and even if there is no conlusion, writing down all sane opinions would help greatly) and write it down in casual user manual style. Just a idea, but I think worth to explore, cheers, Peter. 2010/3/11 Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com: Mike. Thank you for your suggestion. I do not know where the apache licence ref comes from. This year's application says GPL with a note saying some is PD. Graham On Mar 11, 2010 7:36 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: My GSOC suggestion : Get the potlatch running without any Adobe software, use gnash. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GSoC_Project_Ideas_2010#Porting_of_Potlatch_to_use_FLOSS_tools_and_viewer Also why does google list OSM as being apache licensed? http://code.google.com/soc/2008/streetmap/about.html Preferred license: Apache License, 2.0 Since when? I am putting all my new code under the affero GPL 3.0. mike On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Rajan Vaish vaish.ra...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Graham, ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- mortigi tempo Pēteris Krišjānis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
That is a great idea. What about making video as well, on how to use OSM/JOSM/Potlatch how to get started. Video Screencasts? mike On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.comwrote: For one of OSM GSoC'10 projects I would like to suggest unofficial guide for mapping. We all know that there is a little haos in tagging (some says it's good, some says it bad), but so far biggest confusion comes from not how to tag things, but how to tag complex situations or how to even map complex situations (and that's without even taking micro mapping into account). What we need is nice guide where is said - basic roads are maped like this, crossroads created this way, this must be connected with that, etc. It would also create a nice little base for futher experiments and ideas. There's nothing wrong with seeking out alternative tags or ways of mapping, but this at least should be documented somewhere. More or less everyone who would take this task would have to go trough all archives, look for discusions and conlusions (and even if there is no conlusion, writing down all sane opinions would help greatly) and write it down in casual user manual style. Just a idea, but I think worth to explore, cheers, Peter. 2010/3/11 Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com: Mike. Thank you for your suggestion. I do not know where the apache licence ref comes from. This year's application says GPL with a note saying some is PD. Graham On Mar 11, 2010 7:36 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: My GSOC suggestion : Get the potlatch running without any Adobe software, use gnash. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GSoC_Project_Ideas_2010#Porting_of_Potlatch_to_use_FLOSS_tools_and_viewer Also why does google list OSM as being apache licensed? http://code.google.com/soc/2008/streetmap/about.html Preferred license: Apache License, 2.0 Since when? I am putting all my new code under the affero GPL 3.0. mike On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Rajan Vaish vaish.ra...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Graham, ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- mortigi tempo Pēteris Krišjānis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Frederik Ramm wrote: If you are in the unfortunate situation of having willfully chained yourself to one Hardware/OS supplier and that supplier is unwilling to release Java6 for your platform, it may be time to finally ditch ...JOSM in anticipation of imminent Potlatch 2 wondrousness. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/JOSM-will-move-to-Java6-tp4714947p4715170.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
On Thursday 11 Mar 2010 3:42:47 pm jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: That is a great idea. What about making video as well, on how to use OSM/JOSM/Potlatch how to get started. Video Screencasts? actually Gsoc is meant for developing the application as such (as in writing code), not working on end user documentation and tools. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Associate NRC-FOSS http://certificate.nrcfoss.au-kbc.org.in ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Hi, Richard Fairhurst wrote: The world doesn't require Potlatch 2 wondrousness. The world would already sigh with relief if Potlatch could be made to not break relation ordering when a way is split ;-) Has the world lodged a trac ticket? I'm not sure; my guess is that the world is silently waiting for Potlatch 2 to be released and will *then* complain about everything that *still* doesn't work. (My info comes from several mentions on, you guessed it, talk-de.) Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Contributing to PL2 (was: Re: Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back)
Steve Bennett wrote: Sweet. How hard can ActionScript be, really? (I've done plenty of C, Delphi, Java etc in the distant past, usually the difficulty is not the language, it's learning the codebase.) Exactly. If you know Java then you shouldn't find AS3 much of a stretch at all - think of something halfway between Java and JavaScript. The library is huge but the docs are, fortunately, pretty good. I found event listeners a bit bizarre at first, and the whole URLLoader/Loader mess still alternately confuses and annoys me. But generally it's very understandable. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Richard Fairhurst wrote: The world doesn't require Potlatch 2 wondrousness. The world would already sigh with relief if Potlatch could be made to not break relation ordering when a way is split ;-) Has the world lodged a trac ticket? I'm not sure; my guess is that the world is silently waiting for Potlatch 2 to be released and will *then* complain about everything that *still* doesn't work. (My info comes from several mentions on, you guessed it, talk-de.) I hereby present figure 1: Drag and drop relation reordering in Potlatch 2. http://random.dev.openstreetmap.org/relation%20edit.png :-) Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Frederik Ramm wrote: I'm not sure; my guess is that the world is silently waiting for Potlatch 2 to be released and will *then* complain about everything that *still* doesn't work. (My info comes from several mentions on, you guessed it, talk-de.) Oh, I'd guessed that much. No-one outside .de actually _uses_ relation ordering. ;) Seriously, though - as ever - if someone can provide a helpful trac ticket with this is what it currently does, this is what it should do, here are the steps to reproduce then I can at least look into it. And Potlatch 2 does indeed have wondrous relation handling (courtesy of Andy) with ordering and everything. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
On Thursday 11 Mar 2010 4:02:22 pm you wrote: actually Gsoc is meant for developing the application as such (as in writing code), not working on end user documentation and tools. Not only, I know several projects where user manuals and documentation where created during GSoC. There was one localization effort too. Not fully sure, but I think this could fly. I myself am only an enduser of OSM - at the most I have contributed a few icons, but as a long term lurker on the GSoC list, I *have* noticed that some projects set their goals a bit low - and others set them very high. GSoc student pool is a very talented one - it would be good to use them for more critical things. Of course, OSM unlike other projects is basically a collection of tools maintained by various people, so difficult to achieve a consensus. So more or less I think it is excellent idea for OSM GSoC, because it is doable for student, project will benefit greatly and result can be extensible beyond one summer and one student's efforts. from the quality of students that I have seen - 'doable' has quite a high standard. That said, I will go back to the lurking mode. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Associate NRC-FOSS http://certificate.nrcfoss.au-kbc.org.in ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
GSoc student pool is a very talented one - it would be good to use them for more critical things. Of course, OSM unlike other projects is basically a collection of tools maintained by various people, so difficult to achieve a consensus. Having one place of knowhow of mapping is quite critical for project like OSM. And believe me, creating good documentation requires quite a skill and isn't easiest job in IT world as we would like to see. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM for walkers / hikers - getting it going!
Hello everyone, Thanks for the responses on this. What I would like to do this year is really try to bring together everyone on the list who is interested in developing OSM software (both web and mobile) for walkers (hikers) so that we can make a good go of exchanging ideas and developing software. To this end, I propose to add the new version of Freemap (0.5) to the main OSM SVN repository when it's ready so that there's a place where people can hack on stuff they're interested in. I think that in certain areas now (southern England and various parts of Germany) there's enough data to make OSM really useful for walkers so I think the time is right for a push on this. So I'd like to collect together a number of initial idea. I've started a template wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_for_walkers and feel free to send me suggestions via the Freemap blog or email, see http://www.free-map.org.uk/wordpress/?p=103 It would be really good to try and get together a development community and exchange of ideas for a walkers' OSM so I'm wondering - would it be worthwhile creating a dedicated mailing list? osm-outdoors or osm-hikers or something similar? Thanks, Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
lets put it in a different perspective : Make the documentation as part of the program! I would like to see for example a help system that is integrated to the wiki, Click on a tag, have it pull up the wiki entry, be able to add new unknown tags or rename them. We could even have an OWL Ontology created with a reasoning engine to specify rules for tagging. Really, the software should be so good that you dont need docs or videos. mike On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.comwrote: GSoc student pool is a very talented one - it would be good to use them for more critical things. Of course, OSM unlike other projects is basically a collection of tools maintained by various people, so difficult to achieve a consensus. Having one place of knowhow of mapping is quite critical for project like OSM. And believe me, creating good documentation requires quite a skill and isn't easiest job in IT world as we would like to see. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Student Project Ideas?
On 01/-10/-28163 08:59 PM, Ian Dees wrote: ... I think a more useful criticism would include some specific ideas... Well, if we are throwing around random ideas, I might as well chime in too... To state it upfront, I am not involved in any of the parts suggested, so I can neither fully judge the scope nor offer mentoring, but in case some one else finds the suggestions reasonable, they might make them into proper proposals. 1) Integrate a continuous integration framework into JOSM and write the appropriate unit and integration tests. JOSM seems to have a fair number of people contributing to its code base, which is great, but also potentially increases the likelihood of bugs, if people with less experience of the full code base contribute. So a good set of automatic tests, could help ensure JOSM doesn't break too often and hopefully attract even more developers, if, thanks to tests, one doesn't always have to fear breaking some remote part due to dependencies one didn't know about. The scope write unit tests... is fairly flexible and thus should be possible to make it appropriate for a 3 month student project. Also it probably can be considered sufficiently as coding to still qualify. It might not be the most exiting project ever, but I could imagine it being very useful to OSM and given the student is paid for it through Google, it might still attract someone. But people involved in writing JOSM would have to see if it is actually useful or just a stupid idea. 2) Optimize one of the existing routing engines to be a good quality assurance tool of suitability of OSM data for routing. Again, I am not entirely sure what exists already, but I don't think any of the routers (YOURS/gosmore, OpenRouteService, Cloudmade, pgrouting,...) work off of the minutely diffs yet. For quality assurance, a short turn around between trying to fix a bug and verifying that it has indeed been fixed is quite important. So getting down the update frequencies to ideally minutely diffs but perhaps at least hourly or daily would be very useful. If at the same time it is scalable enough to offer it to a large number of editors as a webservice (by e.g. using a better algorithm than the standard A* search), it could be a useful tool to help getting OSMs routability up to par. I can't really judge the scope of such a project, but again it feels like it probably should be possible to adjust the requirements to make it a feasible 3 month project. As said, it is just throwing in some ideas. But given that GSoC is probably the closest to if only code would magically appear we will get, I hope those suggestions don't harm anyone ;-) Kai ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Contributing to PL2 (was: Re: Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back)
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: How hard can ActionScript be, really? If I can do it, anyone can. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 09:30, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Java6 has been around for more than three years now (and other OSM software, e.g. Osmosis, already depends on it) so if you are still using an older version it might be time to upgrade. (If you are in the unfortunate situation of having willfully chained yourself to one Hardware/OS supplier and that supplier is unwilling to release Java6 for your platform, it may be time to finally ditch that supplier.) Now JOSM is compiled with Java 6 in Java 5 compatibility mode and users like me run it with Java 6. Aside from the developers being able to use neat Java 6 features will the existing Java 6 users notice any speedup differences as a result of this? I.e. does java6-as-5 generate dumbed-down bytecode that java5 that might be replaced by fancier and faster java6-as-6 instructions? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Contributing to PL2 (was: Re: Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back)
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:38, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Steve Bennett wrote: Sweet. How hard can ActionScript be, really? (I've done plenty of C, Delphi, Java etc in the distant past, usually the difficulty is not the language, it's learning the codebase.) Exactly. If you know Java then you shouldn't find AS3 much of a stretch at all - think of something halfway between Java and JavaScript. The library is huge but the docs are, fortunately, pretty good. I found event listeners a bit bizarre at first, and the whole URLLoader/Loader mess still alternately confuses and annoys me. But generally it's very understandable. Is it worse or better than the PL1 codebase ?:) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Contributing to PL2 (was: Re: Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back)
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: Is it worse or better than the PL1 codebase ?:) Do you want a serious answer to that? :) The codebase is a lot more proper: there's packages and private/protected variables and all of that. You could probably write unit tests for it if you like that sort of thing. Basically, AS3 is a much more rigorously structured language and P2 is a much more rigorously structured codebase. P2 also has the advantage that there is no live mode. It's difficult to overestimate how much this simplifies the code. P2 itself is a Flex app (the Adobe UI framework) so you can just throw in dialogues, menus and all of that, whereas in AS1 there's no framework so all of P1's UI code is custom-written. I think the main disadvantage of AS3 over AS1 is its verbosity: some things that take one line to do in AS1 take three or four in AS3. Loaders and event listeners are the main examples. AS3's display list is IMO harder to work with: I always liked the way that you could just traverse the movieclip hierarchy in AS1. Oh, and Flex is nowhere near as fast as Ming! cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Student Project Ideas?
I suggest that API 0.8 would specify that any values in the database be stored in some appropriate canonical form, with a flag to say if it is naturally imperial or naturally metric. So heights and widths would be stored (say) in integer millimetres or integer inches with a one-bit flag to say which it is, and speed limits would be stored in integer km/h or integer mph with a one-bit flag to say which it is. The API call to obtain these values would have a parameter to say whether the user wants metric, imperial or how-it-was-specified. I am willing to bet any amount that this is not going to happen as was discussed on this and other mailing lists literally hundreds of time. Tags are free-form and you just have to take care to interpret the data properly. Yes it can be ambiguous but then you can just fix the data or ignore it. In your special case we should tag what's on the sign whatever unit that's in. Cheers, Lars ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Student Project Ideas?
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Lars Francke lars.fran...@gmail.comwrote: I suggest that API 0.8 would specify that any values in the database be stored in some appropriate canonical form, with a flag to say if it is naturally imperial or naturally metric. So heights and widths would be stored (say) in integer millimetres or integer inches with a one-bit flag to say which it is, and speed limits would be stored in integer km/h or integer mph with a one-bit flag to say which it is. The API call to obtain these values would have a parameter to say whether the user wants metric, imperial or how-it-was-specified. I am willing to bet any amount that this is not going to happen as was discussed on this and other mailing lists literally hundreds of time. Tags are free-form and you just have to take care to interpret the data properly. Yes it can be ambiguous but then you can just fix the data or ignore it. In your special case we should tag what's on the sign whatever unit that's in. Well, I want to point out that introducing some of the semweb technologies would allow for people to mark up their tags and create schemas for them. http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-features/ mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
El día Thursday 11 March 2010 11:40:56, Frederik Ramm dijo: I'm not sure; my guess is that the world is silently waiting for Potlatch 2 to be released and will *then* complain about everything that *still* doesn't work. The world is trying to *preemptively* ban potlatch 2 :-P -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es Un ordenador no es una televisión ni un microondas: es una herramienta compleja. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] First drop in planet size ?
(since we got rid of the segments) From 8.2 GB to 8.1 GB: http://planet.openstreetmap.org/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] First drop in planet size ?
On 11 March 2010 15:50, Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote: (since we got rid of the segments) From 8.2 GB to 8.1 GB: http://planet.openstreetmap.org/ Interesting... There has been a change to the dumping script since the previous week: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/changeset/20396 But more likely; we have dropped about a million duplicate nodes: http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/about.html / Grant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] First drop in planet size ?
lots of dupe node removal? On Mar 11, 2010, at 3:50 PM, Nic Roets wrote: (since we got rid of the segments) From 8.2 GB to 8.1 GB: http://planet.openstreetmap.org/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] First drop in planet size ?
No. From 8.2 GB to 8.1 GB: http://planet.openstreetmap.org/ planet-091007.osm.bz2 09-Oct-2009 03:37 7.4G planet-091014.osm.bz2 14-Oct-2009 20:35 7.2G And I'm sure it has happened before. What exactly were you trying to tell us? :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] First drop in planet size ?
On 11 March 2010 16:03, Lars Francke lars.fran...@gmail.com wrote: planet-091007.osm.bz2 09-Oct-2009 03:37 7.4G planet-091014.osm.bz2 14-Oct-2009 20:35 7.2G I tweaked the bz2 compression block size around then, which would account for that size change. / Grant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] FOSSGIS: Devserver - Aktuelle Projekte/Zuk ünftige Entwicklung
Halloechen! Das ganze hier gehoert noch zu den FOSSGIS-Nachwehen und ist für Leute, die nicht dabei waren vielleicht nicht so interessant bzw. verständlich. Ich habe eben mal kurz die Seite der Strato-Server im Wiki[1] erweitert um zu sehen welche Projekte welche Resourcen nutzen. Ich bin mir sicher, dass die Liste der Projekte dort nicht aktuell ist aber ich habe keine Moeglichkeit das zu überprüfen. Koennte irgendwer, der eine Übersicht hat dort mal ein bißchen aufräumen? Das würde die zukünftige Planung vielleicht etwas einfacher machen. Momentan sieht das so aus als wäre die Architektur, die ich auf der FOSSGIS vorstellte ein bißchen Overkill. Kaum Projekte, kaum gleicher Datenbestand, viel 'alter' Code bei dem ich nicht vermute, dass da irgendwas dran geändert wird. Auf der anderen Seite kann man so eine Messaging-Architektur trotzdem aufsetzen auch wenn das noch niemand nutzt. Das parsen und runterladen der diffs verbraucht minimale Resourcen und solange niemand die gesendeten Nachrichten liest werden die vom Server direkt wieder verworfen. Auf den ersten Blick also unnoetig aber wenn das erstmal steht ist es einfach zu benutzen und das schoene ist, dass es unabhängig ist von allem anderen. Was ich hiermit probiere zu erreichen ist eigentlich zu erfahren worein ich Arbeit investieren soll. Gibt es Interesse an einer groeßeren Messaging-basierten Loesung oder nicht? Wenn nicht brauche ich auch keine Arbeit drauf verwenden und ich kann an OSMdoc basteln wie ich will. Wenn es Interesse gibt kann ich im ersten Schritt zumindest mal eine genauere Beschreibung (auch für Leute, die nicht auf der FOSSGIS waren) und ein paar Ideen aufschreiben, die wir dann vielleicht ausarbeiten koennen. Was mich auch interessiert: Sind die Wikimedia-Toolserver Leute (Hallo Kolossos, hallo MaZderMind) hier auf der Liste? Ich habe keine Lust das ganze momentan auf der englischen -dev-Liste zu diskutieren daher erstmal hier der Versuch ob irgendwer mitliest. Ich freue mich über jeden Hinweis, Vorschlag oder Idee. Gruß, Lars [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FOSSGIS/Server/Projects ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
grin :D Any clues or teasers as to what this might contain? - Original Message - From: Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:23:00 -0800 (PST) Frederik Ramm wrote: If you are in the unfortunate situation of having willfully chained yourself to one Hardware/OS supplier and that supplier is unwilling to release Java6 for your platform, it may be time to finally ditch ...JOSM in anticipation of imminent Potlatch 2 wondrousness. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/JOSM-will-move-to-Java6-tp4714947p4715170.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- ___ Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way: Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com Powered by Outblaze ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Richard Fairhurst wrote: multiple snips ...JOSM in anticipation of imminent Potlatch 2 wondrousness. How can potlatch be respectable if it is based on non-free software? (non-free flash, and you can't touch their source code!) You can run JOSM using only libre and/or open source software. Not only JOSM, there's much more software that can be run on fully free systems. Regards, Niklas -- signature.asc Description: Αυτό το σημείο του μηνύματος είναι ψηφιακά υπογεγραμμ ένο ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
2010/3/11 Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es: El día Thursday 11 March 2010 11:40:56, Frederik Ramm dijo: I'm not sure; my guess is that the world is silently waiting for Potlatch 2 to be released and will *then* complain about everything that *still* doesn't work. The world is trying to *preemptively* ban potlatch 2 :-P I'm actually using both JOSM and PL1 depending on my mood, so I'd like to see both projects progressing well... Regards, -- Łukasz [DeeJay1] Jernaś ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Hi, Niklas Cholmkvist wrote: How can potlatch be respectable if it is based on non-free software? (non-free flash, and you can't touch their source code!) You can run JOSM using only libre and/or open source software. Not only JOSM, there's much more software that can be run on fully free systems. Even worse, it has come to my attention that some even use OSM on non-free operating systems and on non-free processor designs! How can OSM ever be respectable if it tolerates this!!!eleven!!! Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
Hi, I agree that improving documentation would be a really useful contribution to OSM, but Google are quite explicit that this is outside of the scope of GSoC ( http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#doc_proposals ). A project along the lines of 'context sensitive help in OSM editors' could be a possibility though. I have never worked on one of the main editors, so I have no idea how hard this would be from that point of view. The Artifical Intelligence aspects are quite difficult in themselves though - it would have to try to guess what you would like to do from what you have just done - quite a challenge, but please add it to the list if you can manage to describe it! Regards Graham. On 11 March 2010 10:59, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: lets put it in a different perspective : Make the documentation as part of the program! I would like to see for example a help system that is integrated to the wiki, Click on a tag, have it pull up the wiki entry, be able to add new unknown tags or rename them. We could even have an OWL Ontology created with a reasoning engine to specify rules for tagging. Really, the software should be so good that you dont need docs or videos. mike On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.comwrote: GSoc student pool is a very talented one - it would be good to use them for more critical things. Of course, OSM unlike other projects is basically a collection of tools maintained by various people, so difficult to achieve a consensus. Having one place of knowhow of mapping is quite critical for project like OSM. And believe me, creating good documentation requires quite a skill and isn't easiest job in IT world as we would like to see. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
Description : Integration of the java swoop ontology editor into JOSM. A JOSM ontology plugin. Work : 1. create a live mapping from OSM into RDF , so that the swoop can access the data in OSM without conversion. 2. be able to have the changes in the rdf be reflected back into the OSM. 4. conversion of the wiki into OWL, so that the rules and relations of the OSM are documented formally. 5. running of the pellet inference engine and all the other reasoning tools from swoop to infer new facts and validate the data. 6. encoding of the rules of the JOSM validator into OWL rules, maybe we will have to include new derived geometric things like if two ways intersect and also ways to only process data in a certain radius. mike On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I agree that improving documentation would be a really useful contribution to OSM, but Google are quite explicit that this is outside of the scope of GSoC ( http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#doc_proposals ). A project along the lines of 'context sensitive help in OSM editors' could be a possibility though. I have never worked on one of the main editors, so I have no idea how hard this would be from that point of view. The Artifical Intelligence aspects are quite difficult in themselves though - it would have to try to guess what you would like to do from what you have just done - quite a challenge, but please add it to the list if you can manage to describe it! Regards Graham. On 11 March 2010 10:59, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: lets put it in a different perspective : Make the documentation as part of the program! I would like to see for example a help system that is integrated to the wiki, Click on a tag, have it pull up the wiki entry, be able to add new unknown tags or rename them. We could even have an OWL Ontology created with a reasoning engine to specify rules for tagging. Really, the software should be so good that you dont need docs or videos. mike On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.comwrote: GSoc student pool is a very talented one - it would be good to use them for more critical things. Of course, OSM unlike other projects is basically a collection of tools maintained by various people, so difficult to achieve a consensus. Having one place of knowhow of mapping is quite critical for project like OSM. And believe me, creating good documentation requires quite a skill and isn't easiest job in IT world as we would like to see. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
Mike, I have not the faintest idea what that means, but it sounds impressive! Please add it to the list, but it would be nice to define some of the terms and abbreviations to help the ignorant like me! Thanks Graham. On 11 March 2010 22:39, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Description : Integration of the java swoop ontology editor into JOSM. A JOSM ontology plugin. Work : 1. create a live mapping from OSM into RDF , so that the swoop can access the data in OSM without conversion. 2. be able to have the changes in the rdf be reflected back into the OSM. 4. conversion of the wiki into OWL, so that the rules and relations of the OSM are documented formally. 5. running of the pellet inference engine and all the other reasoning tools from swoop to infer new facts and validate the data. 6. encoding of the rules of the JOSM validator into OWL rules, maybe we will have to include new derived geometric things like if two ways intersect and also ways to only process data in a certain radius. mike On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I agree that improving documentation would be a really useful contribution to OSM, but Google are quite explicit that this is outside of the scope of GSoC ( http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#doc_proposals ). A project along the lines of 'context sensitive help in OSM editors' could be a possibility though. I have never worked on one of the main editors, so I have no idea how hard this would be from that point of view. The Artifical Intelligence aspects are quite difficult in themselves though - it would have to try to guess what you would like to do from what you have just done - quite a challenge, but please add it to the list if you can manage to describe it! Regards Graham. On 11 March 2010 10:59, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: lets put it in a different perspective : Make the documentation as part of the program! I would like to see for example a help system that is integrated to the wiki, Click on a tag, have it pull up the wiki entry, be able to add new unknown tags or rename them. We could even have an OWL Ontology created with a reasoning engine to specify rules for tagging. Really, the software should be so good that you dont need docs or videos. mike On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.comwrote: GSoc student pool is a very talented one - it would be good to use them for more critical things. Of course, OSM unlike other projects is basically a collection of tools maintained by various people, so difficult to achieve a consensus. Having one place of knowhow of mapping is quite critical for project like OSM. And believe me, creating good documentation requires quite a skill and isn't easiest job in IT world as we would like to see. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
Will to tomorrow, chk out swoop http://www.mindswap.org/2004/SWOOP/ On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: Mike, I have not the faintest idea what that means, but it sounds impressive! Please add it to the list, but it would be nice to define some of the terms and abbreviations to help the ignorant like me! Thanks Graham. On 11 March 2010 22:39, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Description : Integration of the java swoop ontology editor into JOSM. A JOSM ontology plugin. Work : 1. create a live mapping from OSM into RDF , so that the swoop can access the data in OSM without conversion. 2. be able to have the changes in the rdf be reflected back into the OSM. 4. conversion of the wiki into OWL, so that the rules and relations of the OSM are documented formally. 5. running of the pellet inference engine and all the other reasoning tools from swoop to infer new facts and validate the data. 6. encoding of the rules of the JOSM validator into OWL rules, maybe we will have to include new derived geometric things like if two ways intersect and also ways to only process data in a certain radius. mike On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I agree that improving documentation would be a really useful contribution to OSM, but Google are quite explicit that this is outside of the scope of GSoC ( http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#doc_proposals ). A project along the lines of 'context sensitive help in OSM editors' could be a possibility though. I have never worked on one of the main editors, so I have no idea how hard this would be from that point of view. The Artifical Intelligence aspects are quite difficult in themselves though - it would have to try to guess what you would like to do from what you have just done - quite a challenge, but please add it to the list if you can manage to describe it! Regards Graham. On 11 March 2010 10:59, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: lets put it in a different perspective : Make the documentation as part of the program! I would like to see for example a help system that is integrated to the wiki, Click on a tag, have it pull up the wiki entry, be able to add new unknown tags or rename them. We could even have an OWL Ontology created with a reasoning engine to specify rules for tagging. Really, the software should be so good that you dont need docs or videos. mike On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.comwrote: GSoc student pool is a very talented one - it would be good to use them for more critical things. Of course, OSM unlike other projects is basically a collection of tools maintained by various people, so difficult to achieve a consensus. Having one place of knowhow of mapping is quite critical for project like OSM. And believe me, creating good documentation requires quite a skill and isn't easiest job in IT world as we would like to see. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
Hi, 4. conversion of the wiki into OWL, so that the rules and relations of the OSM are documented formally. see also http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Machine-readable_Map_Feature_list/OWL_Semantic_Wiki_and_more http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Machine-readable_Map_Feature_list an attempt to maintain and harvest a machine-readable list of map features on and from the OSM wiki using OWL, RDF, SemanticMediaWiki. Note that this is more than a year old, and no progress has been made. JOSMs tageditor plugin now adopted a more pragmatic approach. I manually maintain a list of machine-readable map features (yet another list, in addition to JOSM presets, and other lists). 4. conversion of the wiki into OWL, so that the rules and relations of the OSM are documented formally. That's the key issue. And the most difficult part. SemanticMediaWiki could help here, because people working with the wiki and its templates today would still work with the very same wiki and the more or less same templates. We had a prototype up and running a year ago. Emphasis on prototype, though. Unfortunately, it never made into the production wiki (lack of hardware ressources at the time, also lack of interest in general). so that the rules and relations of the OSM are documented formally describes the major obstacle here: a significant share (if not the majority) of OSM contributors doesn't see value in raising the level of formality Regards Karl Am 11.03.2010 23:39, schrieb jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com: Description : Integration of the java swoop ontology editor into JOSM. A JOSM ontology plugin. Work : 1. create a live mapping from OSM into RDF , so that the swoop can access the data in OSM without conversion. 2. be able to have the changes in the rdf be reflected back into the OSM. 4. conversion of the wiki into OWL, so that the rules and relations of the OSM are documented formally. 5. running of the pellet inference engine and all the other reasoning tools from swoop to infer new facts and validate the data. 6. encoding of the rules of the JOSM validator into OWL rules, maybe we will have to include new derived geometric things like if two ways intersect and also ways to only process data in a certain radius. mike On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com mailto:grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I agree that improving documentation would be a really useful contribution to OSM, but Google are quite explicit that this is outside of the scope of GSoC (http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#doc_proposals). A project along the lines of 'context sensitive help in OSM editors' could be a possibility though. I have never worked on one of the main editors, so I have no idea how hard this would be from that point of view. The Artifical Intelligence aspects are quite difficult in themselves though - it would have to try to guess what you would like to do from what you have just done - quite a challenge, but please add it to the list if you can manage to describe it! Regards Graham. On 11 March 2010 10:59, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com mailto:jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com mailto:jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: lets put it in a different perspective : Make the documentation as part of the program! I would like to see for example a help system that is integrated to the wiki, Click on a tag, have it pull up the wiki entry, be able to add new unknown tags or rename them. We could even have an OWL Ontology created with a reasoning engine to specify rules for tagging. Really, the software should be so good that you dont need docs or videos. mike On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com mailto:pec...@gmail.com wrote: GSoc student pool is a very talented one - it would be good to use them for more critical things. Of course, OSM unlike other projects is basically a collection of tools maintained by various people, so difficult to achieve a consensus. Having one place of knowhow of mapping is quite critical for project like OSM. And believe me, creating good documentation requires quite a skill and isn't easiest job in IT world as we would like to see. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
On 11/03/10 22:50, Graham Jones wrote: I have not the faintest idea what that means, but it sounds impressive! Please add it to the list, but it would be nice to define some of the terms and abbreviations to help the ignorant like me! Sounding impressive is not a valid reason to consider something a good idea... Basically he's suggesting replacing our current freeform tagging with some complicated system of rules and ontologies. It's completely not the osm way and isn't going to fly. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
I know it sounds shocking but you can make you ontology as simple as you want, and you can have as many as you want. There does not need to be only one set of rules, I can defined them for my own little bit of the map and others can use them. the point is that you can define your terms formally and check them. mike On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:24 AM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 11/03/10 22:50, Graham Jones wrote: I have not the faintest idea what that means, but it sounds impressive! Please add it to the list, but it would be nice to define some of the terms and abbreviations to help the ignorant like me! Sounding impressive is not a valid reason to consider something a good idea... Basically he's suggesting replacing our current freeform tagging with some complicated system of rules and ontologies. It's completely not the osm way and isn't going to fly. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
I think the semantic mediawiki extension would be a great start, another would be integration of the tagwatch into the wiki, definition of data collection from the data set into the wiki (deduction) and validation and generation of new tags (induction) mikw On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:16 AM, Karl Guggisberg karl.guggisb...@guggis.ch wrote: Hi, 4. conversion of the wiki into OWL, so that the rules and relations of the OSM are documented formally. see also http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Machine-readable_Map_Feature_list/OWL_Semantic_Wiki_and_more http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Machine-readable_Map_Feature_list an attempt to maintain and harvest a machine-readable list of map features on and from the OSM wiki using OWL, RDF, SemanticMediaWiki. Note that this is more than a year old, and no progress has been made. JOSMs tageditor plugin now adopted a more pragmatic approach. I manually maintain a list of machine-readable map features (yet another list, in addition to JOSM presets, and other lists). 4. conversion of the wiki into OWL, so that the rules and relations of the OSM are documented formally. That's the key issue. And the most difficult part. SemanticMediaWiki could help here, because people working with the wiki and its templates today would still work with the very same wiki and the more or less same templates. We had a prototype up and running a year ago. Emphasis on prototype, though. Unfortunately, it never made into the production wiki (lack of hardware ressources at the time, also lack of interest in general). so that the rules and relations of the OSM are documented formally describes the major obstacle here: a significant share (if not the majority) of OSM contributors doesn't see value in raising the level of formality Regards Karl Am 11.03.2010 23:39, schrieb jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com: Description : Integration of the java swoop ontology editor into JOSM. A JOSM ontology plugin. Work : 1. create a live mapping from OSM into RDF , so that the swoop can access the data in OSM without conversion. 2. be able to have the changes in the rdf be reflected back into the OSM. 4. conversion of the wiki into OWL, so that the rules and relations of the OSM are documented formally. 5. running of the pellet inference engine and all the other reasoning tools from swoop to infer new facts and validate the data. 6. encoding of the rules of the JOSM validator into OWL rules, maybe we will have to include new derived geometric things like if two ways intersect and also ways to only process data in a certain radius. mike On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I agree that improving documentation would be a really useful contribution to OSM, but Google are quite explicit that this is outside of the scope of GSoC ( http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#doc_proposals ). A project along the lines of 'context sensitive help in OSM editors' could be a possibility though. I have never worked on one of the main editors, so I have no idea how hard this would be from that point of view. The Artifical Intelligence aspects are quite difficult in themselves though - it would have to try to guess what you would like to do from what you have just done - quite a challenge, but please add it to the list if you can manage to describe it! Regards Graham. On 11 March 2010 10:59, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: lets put it in a different perspective : Make the documentation as part of the program! I would like to see for example a help system that is integrated to the wiki, Click on a tag, have it pull up the wiki entry, be able to add new unknown tags or rename them. We could even have an OWL Ontology created with a reasoning engine to specify rules for tagging. Really, the software should be so good that you dont need docs or videos. mike On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.comwrote: GSoc student pool is a very talented one - it would be good to use them for more critical things. Of course, OSM unlike other projects is basically a collection of tools maintained by various people, so difficult to achieve a consensus. Having one place of knowhow of mapping is quite critical for project like OSM. And believe me, creating good documentation requires quite a skill and isn't easiest job in IT world as we would like to see. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for walkers / hikers - getting it going!
I'm very much in favour of improving both the quality of hiking data, and its representation (particularly outside Europe). But do make an effort to consolidate the existing material rather than just adding another layer of paint over the top. Exactly - I'm just at the point where I need a high quality hiking / biking map in a relatively small region in the US. http://topo.geofabrik.de/ has exactly the features and type of rendering I had in mind, but it doesn't cover the US and I haven't had time to dig about to see if any of it is open source. I'm beginning to check into a custom version of a Mapnik stylesheet and rendering. (PS I used the S.O.S (Spawn of Satan) tag 'path' , so I'm not sure how many of my trails will work with other stylesheets) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Freemap - OpenStreetMap for walkers (hikers) - feature ideas?
Walking isn't just about long-distance stuff. Being able to say: x is my starting point and I have [10|30|60mins|...] and I am [slow as a snail|average|running from mad mappers], please take me on a circular route that avoids busy roads, goes through nice parks, maybe goes to places people marked as good viewpoints, and accounts for me being slow uphill. That would be really cool like cyclestreets, and worth showing my mum (who always says she should go walking). Oh, and of course don't forget to throw landowner=angry, shortgun=yes into the circular routing algorithm. amenity=pub should be an option if me/my dad are joining, where as amenity=toilet and amenity=bench will do otherwise. -- Gregory o...@livingwithdragons.com http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for walkers / hikers - getting it going!
(And similarly, how to distinguish between a bike path and a mountain bike track). I added mtb:scale to mountain bike tracks. But around here, even the steepest, roughest terrain is only 1 or 2 out of a scale of 5. I think mtb:scale=3 is something like leaping off 1 meter boulders g (Only slightly exaggerating). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for walkers / hikers - getting it going!
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: .. I'm still unclear how one is supposed to distinguish between a smooth, wide urban footpath and a hiking trail. For smoothness, use surface=* For width, use width=* (And similarly, how to distinguish between a bike path and a mountain bike track). To indicate access restrictions, see: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Access To indicate smoothness, or width, see above. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
Tom, Sounding impressive is not a valid reason to consider something a good idea... Basically he's suggesting replacing our current freeform tagging with some complicated system of rules and ontologies. But being rude and oversimplifying is valid? As already mentioned, it does not have to be hierarchical and rigid, or even what you are worried about: mandatory. It's completely not the osm way and isn't going to fly. I have not been working on OSM long, but I am sick of hearing this already from people. What you mean is below. It's completely not the osm way *as I interpret it* and isn't going to fly *as long as I am around*. There, fixed it for you. The beauty of OSM and similar open data projects, as I interpret it, is that there is wonderfully large dataset that allows people to do almost whatever they want. Not to mention that we are only talking about organizing the documenting of it, and learn about the inherent ontological structure. Some people might find that as valuable, if not more, than the maps. Does that mean you should just kick us out right now unless we agree to the mysteriously vague [my|OSM] way? Should we all agree to certain OSM non-principles that we will not enforce or consider as members of the group? I am just curious what this sentence is going to mean in the future, because isn't going to fly sounds slightly dictatorial in my mind. I could be wrong. I know this sounds like an opening to a flamewar. If I have gone too far, I am sorry. This is not a personal attack, but I think such talk is not in the spirit of the OSM way people like to toss around and defend. I think a little more consideration than we have never done it that way before, so we won't be in the future is warranted. Best, _AJS ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for walkers / hikers - getting it going!
So mtb:scale=5 would be a vertical cliff? -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Mike N. nice...@att.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 22:51:00 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for walkers / hikers - getting it going! (And similarly, how to distinguish between a bike path and a mountain bike track). I added mtb:scale to mountain bike tracks. But around here, even the steepest, roughest terrain is only 1 or 2 out of a scale of 5. I think mtb:scale=3 is something like leaping off 1 meter boulders g (Only slightly exaggerating). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Al Haraka alhar...@gmail.com wrote: It's completely not the osm way *as I interpret it* and isn't going to fly *as long as I am around*. I think that is going to far, my point here is not to be negative, but to contribute something. I can imagine that people dont want to force a global model on everyone, and I agree. the current situation of tags being informally defined, partially checked by various tools and partially supported by many is also not very good. if we had at least a set of standardized rules that we could easily apply to any section of the map, that would be usable from all programs, in libs and other tools, they we would move in the right direction. I can imagine that It would not be difficult to get started with this, there are efforts already to create rdf representations of the OSM data : http://linkedgeodata.org/About The current ontology is very simple, and contains nothing more than subclass rules. http://linkedgeodata.org/vocabulary/ Lets look at what rules are important : 1. Subclassing, a B they say: a bar is an amenity. http://linkedgeodata.org/vocabulary#bar http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#subClassOf http://linkedgeodata.org/vocabulary#amenity . 2. SubProperties, a name is a label http://linkedgeodata.org/vocabulary#name http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#subPropertyOf http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label . 3. They have introduced some other things like usagecounts and value counts, that is what the the tagwatch should provide. So, interesting things that are missing are domain and range. Domain : You can say for example that this node is a gas stations and it has a toilet for wheelchairs. The property of wheelchair_access for example, would be an attribute of bathroom which is part of a public place, and a gas station is a public place. Or you can use ranges : Forest is the range of natural and a forest has lots of tree object. Other things would be more advanced, like this disaster area uses these tags for tagging this and that. Or this sat image is a subset of that image. We at least could define for example that a certain ontology file is used to validate this region of the map, you could define them individually. Also there is no one forcing validity of the documents, I am talking about a simple plugin system that would allow you to start, coupled with a way to formalize the wiki. The task of validating, modelling and using this data is still up to your user decision. I don't see anything more than a better, more customizable josm-validator plugin. In fact, it would be great to see this validator plugin be usable in more areas, for example as a simple lib that I could plug in to my programs, and have a command line access to. How many different non standard syntaxes to we have for representing rules? Every OSM tool has to re implement the different rules, has its own syntax and when something changes lags behind. mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote: Niklas Cholmkvist wrote: How can potlatch be respectable if it is based on non-free software? (non-free flash, and you can't touch their source code!) Personally? I don't give a shit about free software. Or respectability. hm. OSM is composed of free software. It is built on free software. How would it be possible without it? I know many of the OSM people fee the same way as you do... But think about what you are saying for a minute. If all the code and all the tools we used were to be licensed costly software, who would pay for OSM? how would it exist? It would not. mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
Hi, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: If all the code and all the tools we used were to be licensed costly software, who would pay for OSM? We'd all use Google Map Maker then. Under Safari ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM will move to Java6
On 12 March 2010 17:50, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: If all the code and all the tools we used were to be licensed costly software, who would pay for OSM? We'd all use Google Map Maker then. Under Safari ;-) What about Mapzen under IE? *ducks* ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] OV zonekaart
Op 09-03-10 11:02, Lennard schreef: Ldp != Floris (mocht ik willen!) En toch stel ik voor dat degene die hem gesloopt heeft, hem ook weer fixt. :-) PS: Dat was ik dus niet. Ik kom er nu ook even niet aan toe. Gezien Rubke vroeg naar bed moest. En ik al de hele week loop te zeuren ben ik zelf maar weer wat gaan hacken. En ik krijg gewoon iedere keer dat ik met Mapnik werk zulke aggressie aanvallen. Waarom kan dat @#$*(@#$ pakket niet gewoon projecteren op de manier dat je verwacht? Bijvoorbeeld, we hebben een rd_new layers, en zetten daar netjes de srs; waarom kan dat dan niet gelijk goed gaan? Nu met een view naar 900913 toe. Gertje: speciaal voor jou; http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/?zoom=12lat=51.86644lon=4.50521layers=B00TFF Stefan PS: Dat was ik ook niet! PS2: Ik verwacht nu wel dat Roeland de 4PP/6PP kaart gaat fixen! ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] OV zonekaart
Hey, niet aleen voor mij. Voor een ieder die niet graag afscheid neemt van z'n strippenkaart. De OV bedrijven hebben de kaart al van hun site gehaald. Wij zijn krek de enigste die em nog voeren nu. Zegt the voort. Gert -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Stefan de Konink Verzonden: vrijdag 12 maart 2010 2:42 Aan: talk-nl@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] OV zonekaart Op 09-03-10 11:02, Lennard schreef: Ldp != Floris (mocht ik willen!) En toch stel ik voor dat degene die hem gesloopt heeft, hem ook weer fixt. :-) PS: Dat was ik dus niet. Ik kom er nu ook even niet aan toe. Gezien Rubke vroeg naar bed moest. En ik al de hele week loop te zeuren ben ik zelf maar weer wat gaan hacken. En ik krijg gewoon iedere keer dat ik met Mapnik werk zulke aggressie aanvallen. Waarom kan dat @#$*(@#$ pakket niet gewoon projecteren op de manier dat je verwacht? Bijvoorbeeld, we hebben een rd_new layers, en zetten daar netjes de srs; waarom kan dat dan niet gelijk goed gaan? Nu met een view naar 900913 toe. Gertje: speciaal voor jou; http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/?zoom=12lat=51.86644lon=4.50521layers=B 00TFF Stefan PS: Dat was ik ook niet! PS2: Ik verwacht nu wel dat Roeland de 4PP/6PP kaart gaat fixen! ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010, John Smith wrote: On 11 March 2010 05:40, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=5505 Thanks for saving me the trip, so on their signs it looks like 'st.george' I wouldn't promise that I have tagged that branch correctly -- English literature's performing flea. -- Sean O'Casey on P. G. Wodehouse ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Nearmap released over a northern Victoria
Have been anticipating this for a few weeks and finally it has arrived. Nearmap imagery now covers a fair portion of Northern Victoria. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] No Road
On a recent trip, I twice came across roads marked No Road. Anyone know what this means? I rode down both of them, and was rewarded by really interesting, very rough tracks that fortunately did connect up with the road network again. Are they former roads, no longer publicly maintained? How would you tag them? One of them iirc was Frankenburg's Lane in Rochford, Vic. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Traffic Signals
Hi, I use to tag traffic signals at the intersect of the roads, however with NearMap I can see that for complex intersections this does not work as well as I would like, three things I can see to do are:- 1. tag at the intersecttion of roads 2. tag at the location of the signals 3. either (1) or (2) depending on the complexity of the intersection. What's peoples views on this ? thanks -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Traffic Signals
Personally, since NearMap became available, i've been placing traffic light tags at every thick white stop line at the intersection, which means for a standard intersection, there are 4 traffic light nodes. On 11/03/2010, at 11:50 PM, Franc Carter wrote: Hi, I use to tag traffic signals at the intersect of the roads, however with NearMap I can see that for complex intersections this does not work as well as I would like, three things I can see to do are:- 1. tag at the intersecttion of roads 2. tag at the location of the signals 3. either (1) or (2) depending on the complexity of the intersection. What's peoples views on this ? thanks -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Traffic Signals
On 11/03/10 23:55, Luke Woolley wrote: Personally, since NearMap became available, i've been placing traffic light tags at every thick white stop line at the intersection, which means for a standard intersection, there are 4 traffic light nodes. This is exactly what I've been doing too, although the intersections I've done this way are all ones I'm familiar with. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Traffic Signals
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:55 PM, Luke Woolley lswool...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, since NearMap became available, i've been placing traffic light tags at every thick white stop line at the intersection, which means for a standard intersection, there are 4 traffic light nodes. What's the benefit of this rather than, say, one traffic light node on the centre of the intersection? Is the exact location of the light itself important? I'm comparing this approach to the Melway, which uses a big purple circle across the intersection to indicate the presence of traffic lights, mostly as a landmark I guess. The extra detail of individual lights might be more of a pain in the arse than actually useful? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Traffic Signals
On 12/03/10 08:39, Steve Bennett wrote: On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:55 PM, Luke Woolleylswool...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, since NearMap became available, i've been placing traffic light tags at every thick white stop line at the intersection, which means for a standard intersection, there are 4 traffic light nodes. What's the benefit of this rather than, say, one traffic light node on the centre of the intersection? Is the exact location of the light itself important? I'm comparing this approach to the Melway, which uses a big purple circle across the intersection to indicate the presence of traffic lights, mostly as a landmark I guess. The benefit is in greater accuracy and completeness. If we can do better than commercial street directories, then why not? To my mind, it's a bit like deciding whether to make a minor road with a concrete dividing strip a divided road or just a two-lane, two-way single road. The extra detail of individual lights might be more of a pain in the arse than actually useful? Insisting that everyone do it that way would be a pain. But if the information is available then I see no problem in my capturing it if convenient. Nor to I see any pain caused to the user of the more complete maps. And you never know when accurate information might prove useful. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Traffic Signals
On Thu, 2010-03-11 at 23:50 +1100, Franc Carter wrote: Hi, I use to tag traffic signals at the intersect of the roads, however with NearMap I can see that for complex intersections this does not work as well as I would like, three things I can see to do are:- 1. tag at the intersecttion of roads 2. tag at the location of the signals 3. either (1) or (2) depending on the complexity of the intersection. What's peoples views on this ? From a routing perspective, its more useful to have the information on the road intersection. While it might render nicer if you put objects geographically where they are (separated from the road), from a routing perspective thats not much use unless you use a relation to relate the traffic lights to the roadway the traffic lights are on. Also, traffic signals arent only used for road intersections, traffic lights are also sometimes used to control pedestrian crossings between a footway/cycleway and a highway, which I feel is useful to tag. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Traffic Signals
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:09 AM, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote: The benefit is in greater accuracy and completeness. If we can do better than commercial street directories, then why not? At the cost of managing that extra information. So far, I haven't seen much evidence that we have ways of aggregating excess information into more manageable chunks. Insisting that everyone do it that way would be a pain. But if the information is available then I see no problem in my capturing it if convenient. Nor to I see any pain caused to the user of the more complete maps. Put it this way: how would you render a single circle for any intersection that has a traffic light? That is, if there are traffic light nodes at one intersection, you still only want to render one circle. It's a pretty obvious use case. How would you count the number of traffic lights along a given route? The scheme that's been described here would return double the actual number. I'm not saying extra information isn't sometimes a good thing, but the task of simplifying that down to a useful set of information isn't trivial. Perhaps we want to distinguish between an intersection with lights node and an actual traffic light node. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Traffic Signals
On Fri, 2010-03-12 at 09:52 +1100, Steve Bennett wrote: Put it this way: how would you render a single circle for any intersection that has a traffic light? That is, if there are traffic light nodes at one intersection, you still only want to render one circle. It's a pretty obvious use case. How would you count the number of traffic lights along a given route? The scheme that's been described here would return double the actual number. One thought that has been proposed here before, is adding all traffic lights at an intersection to a relation. That way, you simply count the number of traffic light relation groups along the way rather than the number of nodes. This means if you have two junctions close to each other in distance, but that are physically separate traffic light controls, that youd add each light of each group to 2 different relations. Perhaps we want to distinguish between an intersection with lights node and an actual traffic light node. The problem here, is that if you have an 'intersection with lights' that doesnt necessarily affect all ways going through the intersection. For example, some roads have traffic lights on the slip-lane where others dont, and as I mentioned in my first email, you also have to allow for the crossing=traffic_signals node used between foot/highway intersections. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Traffic Signals
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:43 AM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: From a routing perspective, its more useful to have the information on the road intersection. While it might render nicer if you put objects geographically where they are (separated from the road), from a routing perspective thats not much use unless you use a relation to relate the traffic lights to the roadway the traffic lights are on. This is the general tension between a schematic diagram and an accurate representation of the world, which has become more accute since the arrival of Nearmap, where sub-metre accuracy now matters. It also causes the problem with footpaths meeting roads: part of the footpath represents the actual physical location of the footpath, and part is a schematic line showing that it does in fact connect with the road. But no distinction is made. It shows up with bus stops too: the bus stop is not physically part of the road, but schematically is. The only solution I can see is that we end up with some tags that are explicitly schematic rather than geographically accurate, and with some kind of relation between the physical location node and the schematic node Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Traffic Signals
On 12/03/10 09:52, Steve Bennett wrote: At the cost of managing that extra information. So far, I haven't seen much evidence that we have ways of aggregating excess information into more manageable chunks. Put it this way: how would you render a single circle for any intersection that has a traffic light? That is, if there are traffic light nodes at one intersection, you still only want to render one circle. It's a pretty obvious use case. Other than de-cluttering (which tends to be done automatically anyway) I'm not sure why you'd want to render only one set of lights if there were more than that. But you could always limit the number to one for any given radius of a crossing or close group of crossings. How would you count the number of traffic lights along a given route? The scheme that's been described here would return double the actual number. Consider divided roads crossing, where you'd presumably put 4 sets of lights on your scheme (at least that's how I inevitably see it being done in OSM). In this case, placing the lights accurately in their lane gives the correct count whereas it's your system which doubles up the number! I'm not saying extra information isn't sometimes a good thing, but the task of simplifying that down to a useful set of information isn't trivial. Why do you think anyone needs to? Perhaps we want to distinguish between an intersection with lights node and an actual traffic light node. Whether on not an intersection has lights for a particular vehicle often depends on the exact roure taken through that intersection. To oversimplify can often be to mislead. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Where do national/state park boundaries come from?
Hi all, I notice that we have some national park boundaries, but not all. Anyone know where they come from? Are there any usable sources of data? I can't see that attempting to find the boundaries by driving/walking around the park would be very fruitful. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Traffic Signals
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 10:21 AM, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote: Other than de-cluttering (which tends to be done automatically anyway) I'm not sure why you'd want to render only one set of lights if there were more than that. Well, because to most people a set of lights covers a whole intersection. If there are lights northbound, southbound, eastbound and westbound, that would be one set of lights to most people. You could equally ask, why would you want to render 4 sets of lights when there is only one? In this case, placing the lights accurately in their lane gives the correct count whereas it's your system which doubles up the number! Heh, you could be right. I think the relation scheme David referred to would be the way to go. Whether on not an intersection has lights for a particular vehicle often depends on the exact roure taken through that intersection. To oversimplify can often be to mislead. Often? Apart from left-turning sliplanes, are there other cases? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Nearmap released over a northern Victoria
Yeah, it's been available for a couple of weeks now - plenty of work for us to do. Pity there's such a large gap between Bendigo and Geelong - that's one of my favourite areas of Victoria. On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 9:09 PM, Craig Feuerherdt craigfeuerhe...@gmail.com wrote: Have been anticipating this for a few weeks and finally it has arrived. Nearmap imagery now covers a fair portion of Northern Victoria. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Where do national/state park boundaries come from?
try http://www.protectedplanet.net/ as a place to start... jim On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I notice that we have some national park boundaries, but not all. Anyone know where they come from? Are there any usable sources of data? I can't see that attempting to find the boundaries by driving/walking around the park would be very fruitful. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://www.google.com/profiles/jim.croft 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Incorrectly expanding abbreviations
I created a stub wiki entry on this topic. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Invalid_Abbreviation_Expansion ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Traffic Signals
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: ... So far, I haven't seen much evidence that we have ways of aggregating excess information into more manageable chunks. As others have already suggested: we need relations. There's already proposals semi-underway here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations They need more work, though, so... go for it! ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Where do national/state park boundaries come from?
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com wrote: try http://www.protectedplanet.net/ as a place to start... I couldn't find any statement about licensing there. To clarify, my question is not how do I find NP boundaries - that's easy, there are maps on parkweb.vic.gov.au etc. My question is how can I find NP boundaries that I can trace/import into OSM? To pick a concrete one, I'm interested in Lerderderg State Park: http://www.protectedplanet.net/sites/Lerderderg_State_Park Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Where do national/state park boundaries come from?
National and state park boundaries for Victoria (from the Department of Sustainability and Environment's Vicmap Lite package) were released under a CC - Attribution 2.5 Australia licence earlier this year. You can download the polygon data as a KMZ file here: http://www.data.vic.gov.au/raw_data/vicmap-lite-parks/73 For other states, the South Australian data is here (as Shapefiles): http://data.australia.gov.au/589 and there are various Queensland files on the same site. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-br] Mapeamento Estado de Goiás
Eu estou criando relations para TODAS as rodovias federais e estaduais do Rio Grande do Sul (as que já não existem, claro). As relations ajudam bastante na verificação. Alguns trachos de rodovias pertencem a quas rotas (Ex: BR-116 e BR-290 entre a ponte do Guaíba e a saída para Canoas, em Porto Alegre). As relation ajudam bastante nesse e em outros aspectos. Experimente os links das rodovias na página: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/RS/Rodovias_Estaduais Sugiro que cries a página http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/GO/Rodovias_Estaduais de forma semelhante, se não for incômodo. Uma coisa importante é criar a relation com role de forward (ou, excepcionalmente, backward) no caso de trechos onde a rota é apenas num sentido (mão única ou, em alguns casos, mão dupla em que apenas um dos sentidos faz parte da rota). Flávio Henrique escreveu: Ufa! Enfim, após alguns meses, terminei de analisar todas as rodovias do Estado de Goiás e as interliguei. Teoricamente todos os municípios goianos devem estar ligados. Vou rodar o script para ver se há algum problema com as rotas. Próxima etapa é reclassificar os municípios com base na tag /place/ e depois mapear a Capital. Durante a correção das rodovias surgiram algumas dúvidas: no Guia de Mapeamento do projeto http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/PT:Guia_de_Mapeamento_do_Territ%C3%B3rio_Brasileiro há um link dizendo Use Relações http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/Rela%C3%A7%C3%B5es para rodovias maior (sic).. 1) Qual a importância de uma Relation? 2) Qual a influência dela no mapa? 3) Algum critério mais objetivo do que rodovias maior (sic) ? Obrigado e até a próxima! Flávio Henrique ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br -- Flávio Bello Fialho Pesquisador, Embrapa Uva e Vinho be...@cnpuv.embrapa.br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Mapeamento Estado de Goiás
Os relations tambem ajudar no routing, alem voce entrar no BR-101 no São Paulo viendo para Salvador, voce vai o maioridad do distanca no BR-101 (ou pegando BR-116 em caso este e mais rapido), e nao vai sair pela rodovias menor para courtar alguns quilometres. Tambem poder ser usado no render para fazer mapas per rodovia individual, ajudar no navigadores com sinalizacao, e muito mais. Em basico o relation abrir muitos posibilidades em muitos tipos de software. A 2010/3/11 Flavio Bello Fialho be...@cnpuv.embrapa.br: Eu estou criando relations para TODAS as rodovias federais e estaduais do Rio Grande do Sul (as que já não existem, claro). As relations ajudam bastante na verificação. Alguns trachos de rodovias pertencem a quas rotas (Ex: BR-116 e BR-290 entre a ponte do Guaíba e a saída para Canoas, em Porto Alegre). As relation ajudam bastante nesse e em outros aspectos. Experimente os links das rodovias na página: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/RS/Rodovias_Estaduais Sugiro que cries a página http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/GO/Rodovias_Estaduais de forma semelhante, se não for incômodo. Uma coisa importante é criar a relation com role de forward (ou, excepcionalmente, backward) no caso de trechos onde a rota é apenas num sentido (mão única ou, em alguns casos, mão dupla em que apenas um dos sentidos faz parte da rota). Flávio Henrique escreveu: Ufa! Enfim, após alguns meses, terminei de analisar todas as rodovias do Estado de Goiás e as interliguei. Teoricamente todos os municípios goianos devem estar ligados. Vou rodar o script para ver se há algum problema com as rotas. Próxima etapa é reclassificar os municípios com base na tag /place/ e depois mapear a Capital. Durante a correção das rodovias surgiram algumas dúvidas: no Guia de Mapeamento do projeto http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/PT:Guia_de_Mapeamento_do_Territ%C3%B3rio_Brasileiro há um link dizendo Use Relações http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/Rela%C3%A7%C3%B5es para rodovias maior (sic).. 1) Qual a importância de uma Relation? 2) Qual a influência dela no mapa? 3) Algum critério mais objetivo do que rodovias maior (sic) ? Obrigado e até a próxima! Flávio Henrique ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br -- Flávio Bello Fialho Pesquisador, Embrapa Uva e Vinho be...@cnpuv.embrapa.br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Mapeamento Estado de Goiás
A ideia é a mesma das fronteiras: linhas com muitos pontos (quantos mesmo?) são desencorajadas; aconselha-se dividi-las em segmentos de alguns quilômetros e juntá-las com relations. []s Em 11 de março de 2010 08:54, Flavio Bello Fialho be...@cnpuv.embrapa.br escreveu: Eu estou criando relations para TODAS as rodovias federais e estaduais do Rio Grande do Sul (as que já não existem, claro). As relations ajudam bastante na verificação. Alguns trachos de rodovias pertencem a quas rotas (Ex: BR-116 e BR-290 entre a ponte do Guaíba e a saída para Canoas, em Porto Alegre). As relation ajudam bastante nesse e em outros aspectos. Experimente os links das rodovias na página: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/RS/Rodovias_Estaduais Sugiro que cries a página http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/GO/Rodovias_Estaduais de forma semelhante, se não for incômodo. Uma coisa importante é criar a relation com role de forward (ou, excepcionalmente, backward) no caso de trechos onde a rota é apenas num sentido (mão única ou, em alguns casos, mão dupla em que apenas um dos sentidos faz parte da rota). Flávio Henrique escreveu: Ufa! Enfim, após alguns meses, terminei de analisar todas as rodovias do Estado de Goiás e as interliguei. Teoricamente todos os municípios goianos devem estar ligados. Vou rodar o script para ver se há algum problema com as rotas. Próxima etapa é reclassificar os municípios com base na tag /place/ e depois mapear a Capital. Durante a correção das rodovias surgiram algumas dúvidas: no Guia de Mapeamento do projeto http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/PT:Guia_de_Mapeamento_do_Territ%C3%B3rio_Brasileiro há um link dizendo Use Relações http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/Rela%C3%A7%C3%B5es para rodovias maior (sic).. 1) Qual a importância de uma Relation? 2) Qual a influência dela no mapa? 3) Algum critério mais objetivo do que rodovias maior (sic) ? Obrigado e até a próxima! Flávio Henrique ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br -- Flávio Bello Fialho Pesquisador, Embrapa Uva e Vinho be...@cnpuv.embrapa.br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Mapeamento Estado de Goiás
E além disso, se uma rua ou rio define a fronteira de alguma cidade (ou bairro, etc), para evitar termos dois caminhos sobrepostos, o que é desencorajado também, temos que usar relations. Em 11 de março de 2010 10:26, Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org escreveu: Arlindo: linhas com mais que 500 pontos sao denecorajados, nao sei quando o API rejectar os linhas, mas o hard limit e muito mais alto. 2010/3/11 Arlindo Pereira openstreet...@arlindopereira.com: A ideia é a mesma das fronteiras: linhas com muitos pontos (quantos mesmo?) são desencorajadas; aconselha-se dividi-las em segmentos de alguns quilômetros e juntá-las com relations. []s Em 11 de março de 2010 08:54, Flavio Bello Fialho be...@cnpuv.embrapa.br escreveu: Eu estou criando relations para TODAS as rodovias federais e estaduais do Rio Grande do Sul (as que já não existem, claro). As relations ajudam bastante na verificação. Alguns trachos de rodovias pertencem a quas rotas (Ex: BR-116 e BR-290 entre a ponte do Guaíba e a saída para Canoas, em Porto Alegre). As relation ajudam bastante nesse e em outros aspectos. Experimente os links das rodovias na página: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/RS/Rodovias_Estaduais Sugiro que cries a página http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/GO/Rodovias_Estaduais de forma semelhante, se não for incômodo. Uma coisa importante é criar a relation com role de forward (ou, excepcionalmente, backward) no caso de trechos onde a rota é apenas num sentido (mão única ou, em alguns casos, mão dupla em que apenas um dos sentidos faz parte da rota). Flávio Henrique escreveu: Ufa! Enfim, após alguns meses, terminei de analisar todas as rodovias do Estado de Goiás e as interliguei. Teoricamente todos os municípios goianos devem estar ligados. Vou rodar o script para ver se há algum problema com as rotas. Próxima etapa é reclassificar os municípios com base na tag /place/ e depois mapear a Capital. Durante a correção das rodovias surgiram algumas dúvidas: no Guia de Mapeamento do projeto http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/PT:Guia_de_Mapeamento_do_Territ%C3%B3rio_Brasileiro há um link dizendo Use Relações http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/Rela%C3%A7%C3%B5es para rodovias maior (sic).. 1) Qual a importância de uma Relation? 2) Qual a influência dela no mapa? 3) Algum critério mais objetivo do que rodovias maior (sic) ? Obrigado e até a próxima! Flávio Henrique ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br -- Flávio Bello Fialho Pesquisador, Embrapa Uva e Vinho be...@cnpuv.embrapa.br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM Filter (war: Re: Einige Gedan ken zu OSM - Datenbanken nicht croudsource-fähig?)
Hi, Chris-Hein Lunkhusen wrote: Komisch bei mir kommts einmal mit den Punkten, auf dem anderen Rechner mit A, S, K, I und M. Gleiche 2564-tested-windows-exe-Version auf Windows XP. Das wird mit den installierten Schriften und DPI Einstellungen zu tun haben, also ein typisches GUI Problem. Aber seien wir ehrlich; A, S, K, I und M sind vom Usability-Standpunkt aus kaum besser als ..., ..., ..., ... und ... - es braucht wohl echte Profis, um so abstrakte Ideen wie dieses Filter-Gedoens in brauchbare Icons umzusetzen. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] FOSSGIS 2010 - Rückblick (und Ausbl ick?)
Hallo! Nachdem jetzt ein paar Tage verstrichen sind ein Rückblick über die FOSSGIS und wie es in Zukunft weitergehen könnte. Zum klassischen Teil Es hing ein Plakat über die Zusammensetzung der FOSSGIS 2009 Teilnehmer aus, die ich sehr aufschlußreich fand. Letztes Jahr kamen über 80% der Teilnehmer entweder aus Ämtern/Kommunen oder aus Forschung/Lehre. Es ging in diesem Teil z.B. um die Themen OSS GIS, WMS und wie man diese anwendet, weiterentwickelt, etc. In diesem Umfeld scheint OSM durchaus angekommen zu sein, aber eher im Sinne von Gibt es einen WMS Server, mit dem ich die OSM Daten nutzen kann? - was auch mit Abstand die häufigste Frage war, die mir am OSM Stand gestellt wurde. Atmosphäre: Wenig Anzugträger (meist von den anwesenden Sponsorfirmen), angenehmer, offener Austausch. Im Gespräch mit anderen OSMern hab ich den Eindruck bekommen, das man (noch?) ziemlich weit von den Themen entfernt ist, die einen als OSM aktiven so interessieren. Zum OSM Teil Es wurden eine Reihe von aktuellen OSM basierten Projekten vorgestellt, was mir einen Eindruck von den Themen und Lösungswegen gegeben hat, z.B. wie und mit welchen Werkzeugen Leute eigentlich Dinge wie Druck, Datenimport, etc. angehen. Davon in Zukunft gerne mehr. Die Keynote von Micheal Buege fand ich Klasse! Außerdem: Die ganzen Mailadressen mal (wieder) in Natur zu sehen hat was. 2011 Wie könnte sowas nun beim nächsten mal aussehen? A) Man macht die FOSSGIS 2011 so wie dieses Jahr, klassischen und OSM Teil hintereinander. B) Auf der FOSSGIS 2011 sollen die Themen stärker zusammenwachsen, also verzahnt sich das Programm zeitlich stärker. C) Man zieht sowas wie eine deutsche SOTM auf, die sich gezielt an die OSM Aktiven wendet - und dann am Wochenende stattfinden sollte. Ich persönlich würde ganz klar C) bevorzugen ... Gruß, ULFL ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] ORS down?
Hallo zusammen, ich kann OpenRouteService [1] seit gestern nicht mehr erreichen. Gleiches gilt auch für OSM-WMS. Hab' ich was verpasst, sollte das so sein, gibt's neue Adressen? MfG, Chris [1] http://data.giub.uni-bonn.de/openrouteservice [2] http://www.osm-wms.de/ ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] (OT) Was heißt [tm]?
Am Donnerstag 11 März 2010 08:05:51 schrieb Andre Joost: Das funktioniert doch schon mit der alten tested 2564. Hätte man das damals [tm] schon freigeschaltet/veröffentlicht, wäre der beta-test längst gelaufen. Hallo zusammen, ich lese hier öfter mal das [tm]. Was heißt das? Das Trademark bekomm' ich da irgendwie nicht reininterpretiert. MfG, Chris. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] ORS down?
Hi, Christian Knorr schrieb: Hallo zusammen, ich kann OpenRouteService [1] seit gestern nicht mehr erreichen. Gleiches gilt auch für OSM-WMS. Hab' ich was verpasst, sollte das so sein, gibt's neue Adressen? MfG, Chris [1] http://data.giub.uni-bonn.de/openrouteservice [2] http://www.osm-wms.de/ die Server ziehen gerade um. Temporär ist die Webseite von ORS über http://szipf03.geog.uni-heidelberg.de/openrouteservice/ zu erreichen. pascal ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] FOSSGIS 2010 - Rückblick (und Ausbl ick?)
Hallo Ulf, Ulf Lamping wrote: A) Man macht die FOSSGIS 2011 so wie dieses Jahr, klassischen und OSM Teil hintereinander. B) Auf der FOSSGIS 2011 sollen die Themen stärker zusammenwachsen, also verzahnt sich das Programm zeitlich stärker. C) Man zieht sowas wie eine deutsche SOTM auf, die sich gezielt an die OSM Aktiven wendet - und dann am Wochenende stattfinden sollte. Ich persönlich würde ganz klar C) bevorzugen ... Wir haben uns die gleichen Fragen bei der Vorbereitung der 2010er Konferenz natuerlich auch gestellt, wobei damals der Ort der FOSSGIS schon feststand und die Option B, die zu einer deutlich groesseren Zahl gleichzeitig anwesender Menschen gefuehrt haette, nicht praktikabel war. Die Diskussion Wochenende vs. unter der Woche kam oefters auf. Richtig ist, dass die klassische FOSSGIS an einem Wochenende nicht stattfinden koennte, weil sie viel professionelles Publikum anzieht. OSM als Hobbyveranstaltung haette da wohl weniger ein Problem (obwohl ich auch OSMer kenne, die sagen: Am Wochenende mach ich was mit meinen Kindern). Fuer mich sprechen zwei Gruende fuer eine gemeinsame Konferenz (Optionen A oder B): Der eine ist mehr politisch, ich moechte, dass Open Source und Open Data im GIS-Bereich mehr zusammenwachsen. Ich glaube, dass OSM von den alten GIS-Hasen viel lernen kann, umgekehrt die alten GIS-Hasen von OSM auch. (Ich wuerde mir auch wuenschen, dass die Open Source GIS-Szene ein kleines bisschen mehr von Open Data infiziert wird; derzeit fassen die zwar proprietaere ESRI-Software nur mit spitzen Fingern an, aber mit proprietaeren Daten haben sie kein Problem.) Der zweite ist ganz pragmatisch; bei einer existierenden Konferenz mitzutun macht nur einen Bruchteil der Arbeit. Einen geeigneten Ort suchen, Call for Papers machen, Sponsoren finden, Programm zusammenstellen, Anmeldungen verwalten - das ist verdammt viel Arbeit, und bei der FOSSGIS koennen wir bestehende Strukturen mitnutzen. Natuerlich koennte man die Sache auch selber stemmen, aber da haetten ein paar OSMer dann ein halbes Jahr lang nichts anderes zu tun... Andrerseits machen die Amerikaner ja auch ihre eigene SOTM, also wenn die 10 Hansels das hinkriegen, dann muessten wir das ja schon lange ;-) Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM Filter
Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Chris-Hein Lunkhusen wrote: Komisch bei mir kommts einmal mit den Punkten, auf dem anderen Rechner mit A, S, K, I und M. Gleiche 2564-tested-windows-exe-Version auf Windows XP. Das wird mit den installierten Schriften und DPI Einstellungen zu tun haben, also ein typisches GUI Problem. Aber seien wir ehrlich; A, S, K, I und M sind vom Usability-Standpunkt aus kaum besser als ..., ..., ..., ... und ... - es braucht wohl echte Profis, um so abstrakte Ideen wie dieses Filter-Gedoens in brauchbare Icons umzusetzen. Bye Frederik Ein neues Design für das Filter-Gedoens ist in der Entwicklung, hier schon mal eine Vorschau zum ausprobieren: http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/3/11/2790093//josm-custom-mask.jar Das Ziel war, die Handhabung extrem zu Vereinfachen, aber trotzdem die Funktionen nicht zu sehr zu beschneiden. Was man noch nicht erkennen kann: Es ist geplant, dass man vordefinierte Filter/Masken zu neuen Suchabfragen kombinieren kann, z.B. für unbenannte Gebäude und Straßen oder fixme-s: (($roads | $buildings) -name) | fixme Kommentare willkommen! __ Sebastian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] (OT) Was heißt [tm]?
Am Donnerstag 11 März 2010 09:46:33 schrieb Christian Knorr: ich lese hier öfter mal das [tm]. Was heißt das? Das Trademark bekomm' ich da irgendwie nicht reininterpretiert. Das ist schon das trademark und hat (IMHO) zwei maßgebliche Anwendungsgebiete: Einerseits spielt man damit auf die typische Dehnbarkeit bzw. den typischen Wahrheitsgehalt einer Werbeaussage bzw. eines Produktnamens an. Die Aussage oder das Wort vor dem Trademark ist also nicht unbedingt wörtlich zu nehmen sondern kann alles bedeuten. Übereinstmmungen mit im Sprachgebrauch üblichen Wörtern sind rein zufällig. Wie das bei Produktnamen halt auch manchmal ist. Oder (trivialerweise) man schreibt etwas, das eigentlich ein typischer Ausspruch von jemand anderem ist und kennzeichnet das dann augenzwinkernd mit dem [tm]. Gruß, Bernd -- Selbst ein Trabi mit 26 PS hat mehr Power als die SPD. - Renate Künast (Berliner Grüne) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] (OT) Was heißt [tm]?
Am 11.03.2010 09:46, Christian Knorr: Am Donnerstag 11 März 2010 08:05:51 schrieb Andre Joost: Das funktioniert doch schon mit der alten tested 2564. Hätte man das damals [tm] schon freigeschaltet/veröffentlicht, wäre der beta-test längst gelaufen. Hallo zusammen, ich lese hier öfter mal das [tm]. Was heißt das? Das Trademark bekomm' ich da irgendwie nicht reininterpretiert. Wurde ein Begriff zur Genüge verwendet und die Aussagekraft damit immer weiter vermindert verwendet man häufig scherzhaft das Trademark im Sinne von: Das kam schon so oft, da kann man jetzt Markenrechte anmelden. So kenne ich das jedenfalls :) Claudius ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM Filter
Am 11.03.2010 10:41, schrieb Sebastian Klein: Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Chris-Hein Lunkhusen wrote: Komisch bei mir kommts einmal mit den Punkten, auf dem anderen Rechner mit A, S, K, I und M. Gleiche 2564-tested-windows-exe-Version auf Windows XP. Das wird mit den installierten Schriften und DPI Einstellungen zu tun haben, also ein typisches GUI Problem. Aber seien wir ehrlich; A, S, K, I und M sind vom Usability-Standpunkt aus kaum besser als ..., ..., ..., ... und ... - es braucht wohl echte Profis, um so abstrakte Ideen wie dieses Filter-Gedoens in brauchbare Icons umzusetzen. Bye Frederik Ein neues Design für das Filter-Gedoens ist in der Entwicklung, hier schon mal eine Vorschau zum ausprobieren: http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/3/11/2790093//josm-custom-mask.jar Das Ziel war, die Handhabung extrem zu Vereinfachen, aber trotzdem die Funktionen nicht zu sehr zu beschneiden. Was man noch nicht erkennen kann: Es ist geplant, dass man vordefinierte Filter/Masken zu neuen Suchabfragen kombinieren kann, z.B. für unbenannte Gebäude und Straßen oder fixme-s: (($roads | $buildings) -name) | fixme Kommentare willkommen! __ Sebastian hi ! habe mir das einmal gezogen - sieht nach dem start aber wirklich nur aus wie eine 3085 release-version von josm ! gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM Filter
Jan Tappenbeck wrote: habe mir das einmal gezogen - sieht nach dem start aber wirklich nur aus wie eine 3085 release-version von josm ! Ach ja, im linken Bereich auf den Knopf mit dem + klicken, dann öffnet sich der Dialog... __ Sebastian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM Filter
Am 11. März 2010 10:41 schrieb Sebastian Klein basti...@googlemail.com: Ein neues Design für das Filter-Gedoens ist in der Entwicklung, hier schon mal eine Vorschau zum ausprobieren: Kommentare willkommen! Das sieht doch gar nocht schlecht aus. Ein paar Kommentare: Beim ursprünglichen Displayfilter konnte man einige Filter auf grau-Hintergrund und gleichzeitig andere auf unsichtbar schalten. Die Möglichkeit habe ich bei dir jetzt leider nicht gefunden. Irgendwie schaffe ich es nicht, die vorhandenen Masken zu editieren. Werde weiter testen ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] ORS down?
Am Donnerstag 11 März 2010 09:46:12 schrieb Pascal Neis: Christian Knorr schrieb: Hallo zusammen, ich kann OpenRouteService [1] seit gestern nicht mehr erreichen. die Server ziehen gerade um. Temporär ist die Webseite von ORS über http://szipf03.geog.uni-heidelberg.de/openrouteservice/ zu erreichen. Ah, okay. Wie soll ich denn extern darauf zugreifen? Ich habe es in injooosm eingebaut, was jetzt nicht mehr funktioniert. Ich habe es mit absoluten Links gemacht (http://data.giub.uni-bonn.de/openrouteservice/...). Kann ich auch den http://openrouteservice.org Link nehmen? (weiß gerade nicht ob der auch richtig ist). Dann passt es wenigstens nachher wieder wenn der Serverumzug vollendet ist. Chris.. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] ORS down?
Hi, Christian Knorr schrieb: Am Donnerstag 11 März 2010 09:46:12 schrieb Pascal Neis: Christian Knorr schrieb: Hallo zusammen, ich kann OpenRouteService [1] seit gestern nicht mehr erreichen. die Server ziehen gerade um. Temporär ist die Webseite von ORS über http://szipf03.geog.uni-heidelberg.de/openrouteservice/ zu erreichen. Ah, okay. Wie soll ich denn extern darauf zugreifen? Ich habe es in injooosm eingebaut, was jetzt nicht mehr funktioniert. Ich habe es mit absoluten Links gemacht (http://data.giub.uni-bonn.de/openrouteservice/...). Kann ich auch den http://openrouteservice.org Link nehmen? kommt darauf an, auf was du verlinkt hast. nur auf die website oder auf irgendwelche *.html oder *.php-Seiten? Im einfachsten Fall ersetzt du jetzt einfach: http://data.giub.uni-bonn.de/openrouteservice/ mit http://szipf03.geog.uni-heidelberg.de/openrouteservice/ dann wird die nächsten Tage erstmal alles wie gewohnt weiter funktionieren. sobald ich die neuen URLs kenne werde ich sie dir schicken. pascal ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] http://dev.openstreetmap.de/ down?
Hallo, kann keine NaviPOWM-Karten laden. Server meldet sich nicht. Gruß Dieter Jasper ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] (OT) Was heißt [tm]?
Christian Knorr schrieb: Am Donnerstag 11 März 2010 08:05:51 schrieb Andre Joost: Das funktioniert doch schon mit der alten tested 2564. Hätte man das damals [tm] schon freigeschaltet/veröffentlicht, wäre der beta-test längst gelaufen. Hallo zusammen, ich lese hier öfter mal das [tm]. Was heißt das? Das Trademark bekomm' ich da irgendwie nicht reininterpretiert. Das gabs damals[tm] vor über 10 Jahren auch schon: http://groups.google.com/group/de.comp.sys.mac/browse_thread/thread/55a8bcc4a07174fd/fdb460bf57fb76c1?q=damals+[tm]#fdb460bf57fb76c1 Gehört halt zur usenet-Folklore. Gruß, André Joost ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM Filter (war: Re: Einige Gedanken z u OSM - Datenbanken nicht croudsource-fähig?)
Zitat Frederik Ramm: [...]- es braucht wohl echte Profis, um so abstrakte Ideen wie dieses Filter-Gedoens in brauchbare Icons umzusetzen. Gibt es eine Aufstellung, fuer welche Funktionen Icons benoetigt werden? Man kann es ja mal versuchen ;-) -- Michael ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
