[talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
-- Forwarded message -- From: Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz Date: 6 April 2011 19:08 Subject: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ... To: d...@openstreetmap.org ... the License Working Group intends implementing Phase 3 of the license change implementation plan [1]. This involves blocking edits with HTTP Forbidden messages until the individual contributor has Accepted/Declined the new terms by logging in manually via browser at http://www.openstreetmap.org. The text of the message will explain the reason. This will happen Real Soon Now, I hope within the next few days. We will give at least 48 hours notice on the main Talk and other mailing lists of the exact date/time. Please would you check that your editor software has some mechanism for your users. For clarity: - This will only affect (77,000) contributors who registered before May 2010 and who have not accepted the new terms as part of the voluntary re-licensing program. - Once a contributor has Accepted/Declined the new terms, they may continue editting normally. Even if they decline, they may continue editting normally until and if Phase 4 kicks in. Mike Michael Collinson License Working Group [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Implementation_Plan#PHASE_3_-_Existing_Contributor_Mandatory_Re-licensing_.28Phase_2_.2B_5_or_10_weeks.29 ___ dev mailing list d...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 19:31:53 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com didn't write: (Michael Collinson did) For clarity: - This will only affect (77,000) contributors who registered before May 2010 and who have not accepted the new terms as part of the voluntary re-licensing program. those who see a big hole in the numbers total contributors at May 2010 ~250,000 Those who have signed up ~9,000 Those who have not signed up ~77,000 the gap I guess refers to accounts which have been completely idle and will be prevented from editing (source, LWG minutes 5th April 2011) I still have trouble understanding how 9,000 of 86,000 is a large majority. Those who signed up after May 2010 got no option, so they can't be construed as supporting either side. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On 6 April 2011 10:51, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 19:31:53 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com didn't write: (Michael Collinson did) For clarity: - This will only affect (77,000) contributors who registered before May 2010 and who have not accepted the new terms as part of the voluntary re-licensing program. those who see a big hole in the numbers total contributors at May 2010 ~250,000 Those who have signed up ~9,000 Those who have not signed up ~77,000 the gap I guess refers to accounts which have been completely idle and will be prevented from editing (source, LWG minutes 5th April 2011) Yes, those that have been completely idle. They signed up prior to May 2010 and have not made any edits. They are not prevented from editing, but they will be presented with the new CTs when they login to edit. I still have trouble understanding how 9,000 of 86,000 is a large majority. Those who signed up after May 2010 got no option, so they can't be construed as supporting either side. There are around 12,000 accounts which have prior to May 2010 contributed 95%+ of all the data. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On 06/04/11 19:31, John Smith wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz Date: 6 April 2011 19:08 Subject: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ... To: d...@openstreetmap.org ... the License Working Group intends implementing Phase 3 of the license change implementation plan [1]. This involves blocking edits with HTTP Forbidden messages until the individual contributor has Accepted/Declined the new terms by logging in manually via browser at http://www.openstreetmap.org. The text of the message will explain the reason. This will happen Real Soon Now, I hope within the next few days. We will give at least 48 hours notice on the main Talk and other mailing lists of the exact date/time. Please would you check that your editor software has some mechanism for your users. For clarity: - This will only affect (77,000) contributors who registered before May 2010 and who have not accepted the new terms as part of the voluntary re-licensing program. - Once a contributor has Accepted/Declined the new terms, they may continue editting normally. Even if they decline, they may continue editting normally until and if Phase 4 kicks in. Mike Michael Collinson License Working Group [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Implementation_Plan#PHASE_3_-_Existing_Contributor_Mandatory_Re-licensing_.28Phase_2_.2B_5_or_10_weeks.29 Thank you John for forwarding this. Would you please pass back to Michael my respectful disdain for this notification which provides no reassurance nor guidance whatsoever. (I am straining to be polite; in case this is not obvious!) So some change may be made - maybe even soon - to force a decision the result of which may be ignored - by people who may not be using the system any more. Which may not have any effect? I will say no more than express my bewilderment why this announcement(Meta-b Control-k)waste of time and effort was even considered for posting as I doubt I will be able to refrain from insult. I emphasise this last statement is not directed at John. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors
I was very keen and learning ...had done a few edits not many but I was planning on getting right into it. I don't agree with the new licensing and have just been sitting on the side reading. I have some firm views against the new licensing and also about the methods that have been used in the implementation, but I don't feel I have been a member of the community for long enough to be vocal in expressing my opinion. I doubt very much that I will edit or map in OSM again. Perhaps in one of the derivatives. I feel like I am the customer who walked into the shop and didn't get any service. Not because the staff were busy, but because they were standing round talking amongst themselves about how quiet it has been... and so because I did not get any service I didn't complain, I just walked out of the shop. Regards, Paul. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
So is Phase 4 the end for those that don't agree? What happens to the data if we don't agree? and the data built on top of that data? I have read what I could about the new Contributor Terms and I get the drift about the CC-BY-SA and ODbL. Just not sure about the OSMF bit. Regards, Michael Hampson 0416 685 785 On 6/04/2011 7:31 PM, John Smith wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Michael Collinsonm...@ayeltd.biz Date: 6 April 2011 19:08 Subject: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ... To: d...@openstreetmap.org ... the License Working Group intends implementing Phase 3 of the license change implementation plan [1]. This involves blocking edits with HTTP Forbidden messages until the individual contributor has Accepted/Declined the new terms by logging in manually via browser at http://www.openstreetmap.org. The text of the message will explain the reason. This will happen Real Soon Now, I hope within the next few days. We will give at least 48 hours notice on the main Talk and other mailing lists of the exact date/time. Please would you check that your editor software has some mechanism for your users. For clarity: - This will only affect (77,000) contributors who registered before May 2010 and who have not accepted the new terms as part of the voluntary re-licensing program. - Once a contributor has Accepted/Declined the new terms, they may continue editting normally. Even if they decline, they may continue editting normally until and if Phase 4 kicks in. Mike Michael Collinson License Working Group [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Implementation_Plan#PHASE_3_-_Existing_Contributor_Mandatory_Re-licensing_.28Phase_2_.2B_5_or_10_weeks.29 ___ dev mailing list d...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On 06/04/2011, at 7:31 PM, John Smith wrote: ... the License Working Group intends implementing Phase 3 of the license change implementation plan [1]. This involves blocking edits with HTTP Forbidden messages until the individual contributor has Accepted/Declined the new terms by logging in manually via browser at http://www.openstreetmap.org. The text of the message will explain the reason. This will happen Real Soon Now, I hope within the next few days. We will give at least 48 hours notice on the main Talk and other mailing lists of the exact date/time. Time to go read the CTs again... You agree to only add Contents for which You are the copyright holder (to the extent the Contents include any copyrightable elements). ... If You are not the copyright holder of the Contents, You represent and warrant that You have explicit permission from the rights holder to submit the Contents and grant the licence below. Right, so I still can't agree because I have uploaded data from third parties (e.g. CC-BY govt data), which I'm not the copyright holder for. Does anyone know if someone ever sort out a way of moving some changesets into new account(s), for different sources? -- James ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 8:50 AM, James Livingston li...@sunsetutopia.com wrote: Time to go read the CTs again... Hi James, That's one of the sections of v1 that has been clarified in v1.2.4. Have a look. http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
There are around 12,000 accounts which have prior to May 2010 contributed 95%+ of all the data. So how many of these 12,000 accounts have agreed to the new CT's? Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
There are around 12,000 accounts which have prior to May 2010 contributed 95%+ of all the data. Regards Grant Also how many of these are actual people not import accounts eg ABS2006? Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 10:52 AM, 4x4falcon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: There are around 12,000 accounts which have prior to May 2010 contributed 95%+ of all the data. Regards Grant Also how many of these are actual people not import accounts eg ABS2006? I don't know, I haven't tried to distinguish between bot and non-bot accounts. Some are import-accounts. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors
Paul, I know how you feel. I came home from a trip to remote Australia with lots of material to upload and was met with the “traffic” generated by this issue. I don’t understand what’s it’s all about. The Wicki, like it is in most things, is confused and inconclusive. No one has contacted me directly and I just don’t think it is worth the effort. I get the impression that this show is run by Europeans so I am not surprised. Kevin From: All Blokes [mailto:speed_13...@yahoo.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 6 April 2011 9:48 PM To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors I was very keen and learning ...had done a few edits not many but I was planning on getting right into it. I don't agree with the new licensing and have just been sitting on the side reading. I have some firm views against the new licensing and also about the methods that have been used in the implementation, but I don't feel I have been a member of the community for long enough to be vocal in expressing my opinion. I doubt very much that I will edit or map in OSM again. Perhaps in one of the derivatives. I feel like I am the customer who walked into the shop and didn't get any service. Not because the staff were busy, but because they were standing round talking amongst themselves about how quiet it has been... and so because I did not get any service I didn't complain, I just walked out of the shop. Regards, Paul. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Fwd: [OpenStreetMap] OpenStreetMap is changing the licence
This came through over night. Is it a standard mailer going out to all? Original Message Subject:[OpenStreetMap] OpenStreetMap is changing the licence Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 16:09:39 +0100 From: wicking m-177534-5c8...@messages.openstreetmap.org To: mhamp...@fastmail.com.au Hi MCH, wicking has sent you a message through OpenStreetMap with the subject OpenStreetMap is changing the licence: == Hello MCH. As I’ve seen on http://odbl.de you’ve contributed quite a lot of data so I wanted to ask, if you already know, that OpenStreetMap is asking existing contributors to re-license their contributions under a new licence, which is more suitable for our data. (OSM wants to change the current Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike 2.0 (CC-BY-SA 2.0) to Open Database License (OdbL) 1.0.) Maybe you’ve reasons why you did not accept it already. Perhaps you could tell me. You can read more about the licence change here: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/We_Are_Changing_The_License You can accept the new licence here (if you’re logged in): http://openstreetmap.org/user/terms I hope to hear from you. Erik from Berlin, Germany == You can also read the message at http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/read/177534 and you can reply at http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/reply/177534 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On Wed, 2011-04-06 at 22:09 +1000, Michael Hampson wrote: So is Phase 4 the end for those that don't agree? What happens to the data if we don't agree? and the data built on top of that data? Well, it depends what you read. According to the wiki, stage 4 is when OSM asks the community what will should happen for those who havent accepted the licence. One has to wonder if any of the comments from the past year or two will be taken into account when those in power decide to ask us mere mushrooms what we think. For clarity: - This will only affect (77,000) contributors who registered before May 2010 and who have not accepted the new terms as part of the voluntary re-licensing program. For clarity: (according to odbl.de) In Australia: - This will remove 57% of users - This will remove 67% of nodes, 66% of ways and 86% of relations In UK: - This will remove 65% of users - This will remove 40% of nodes, 40% of ways and 10% of relations In Europe: - This will remove 61% of users - This will remove 20% of nodes, 20% of ways and 15% of relations It is fairly clear that the Australian issue has very little value to those in Europe in control of the project at the moment. The fact that the number of users lost is in the same ballpark while the amount of data lost is significantly higher in our part of the world, seems to show the regions and the users whos interests they are looking out for. - Once a contributor has Accepted/Declined the new terms, they may continue editting normally. Even if they decline, they may continue editting normally until and if Phase 4 kicks in. Maybe I missed the announcement, but is there now an option to record that you decline the licence? David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OpenStreetMap] OpenStreetMap is changing the licence
On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 09:17 +1000, Michael Hampson wrote: This came through over night. Is it a standard mailer going out to all? I received the same, so presumably yes. One has to wonder how many innocent users who dont want to be banished from the project, simply click 'agree' or follow the link, having no understanding of what theyre actually agreeing to, or whether they even have the rights to relicence their changes. To be done properly, there should have been a note added to that email to only agree to the terms if you know your edits are 100% clean, otherwise the liability falls back to you personally and not to the project if its found you have contributed infringing data. However, a note like this would only serve to educate the users and wouldnt be an encouragement to blindly accept, which some in control think is what should happen. David Original Message Subject: [OpenStreetMap] OpenStreetMap is changing the licence Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 16:09:39 +0100 From: wicking m-177534-5c8...@messages.openstreetmap.org To: mhamp...@fastmail.com.au Hi MCH, wicking has sent you a message through OpenStreetMap with the subject OpenStreetMap is changing the licence: == Hello MCH. As I’ve seen on http://odbl.de you’ve contributed quite a lot of data so I wanted to ask, if you already know, that OpenStreetMap is asking existing contributors to re-license their contributions under a new licence, which is more suitable for our data. (OSM wants to change the current Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike 2.0 (CC-BY-SA 2.0) to Open Database License (OdbL) 1.0.) Maybe you’ve reasons why you did not accept it already. Perhaps you could tell me. You can read more about the licence change here: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/We_Are_Changing_The_License You can accept the new licence here (if you’re logged in): http://openstreetmap.org/user/terms I hope to hear from you. Erik from Berlin, Germany == You can also read the message at http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/read/177534 and you can reply at http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/reply/177534 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 9:37 AM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Wed, 2011-04-06 at 22:09 +1000, Michael Hampson wrote: So is Phase 4 the end for those that don't agree? What happens to the data if we don't agree? and the data built on top of that data? Well, it depends what you read. According to the wiki, stage 4 is when OSM asks the community what will should happen for those who havent accepted the licence. One has to wonder if any of the comments from the past year or two will be taken into account when those in power decide to ask us mere mushrooms what we think. For clarity: - This will only affect (77,000) contributors who registered before May 2010 and who have not accepted the new terms as part of the voluntary re-licensing program. For clarity: (according to odbl.de) In Australia: - This will remove 57% of users - This will remove 67% of nodes, 66% of ways and 86% of relations In UK: - This will remove 65% of users - This will remove 40% of nodes, 40% of ways and 10% of relations In Europe: - This will remove 61% of users - This will remove 20% of nodes, 20% of ways and 15% of relations It is fairly clear that the Australian issue has very little value to those in Europe in control of the project at the moment. The fact that the number of users lost is in the same ballpark while the amount of data lost is significantly higher in our part of the world, seems to show the regions and the users whos interests they are looking out for. - Once a contributor has Accepted/Declined the new terms, they may continue editting normally. Even if they decline, they may continue editting normally until and if Phase 4 kicks in. Maybe I missed the announcement, but is there now an option to record that you decline the licence? http://openstreetmap.org/user/terms Supposedly it sends you to this flippant page if you decline the CT: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributor_Terms_Declined If you have reached this page because you declined the OpenStreetMap contributor terms, that's too bad. We're sorry that you have decided to not accept the OpenStreetMap Contributor Terms. That means that you can not contribute data to OpenStreetMap. It would have been good for the dust to settle on CT acceptance by data owners before moving to Phase 3: Are they compliant with the spirit and letter of CC-BY 2.5/3.0 Attribution AU? (then the Australian Government data issue is solved?) If not why not; are data owners giving up something that they previously had and intended when they licensed their data? Is it just about the level of attribution? That would be a lot easier to get clarified than trying to get a whole new suite of licences approved. What happened to NearMap? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On 7 April 2011 09:37, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: In UK: - This will remove 65% of users - This will remove 40% of nodes, 40% of ways and 10% of relations In Europe: - This will remove 61% of users - This will remove 20% of nodes, 20% of ways and 15% of relations I wonder the difference between the UK and the rest of Europe has something to do with the Ordinance Survey data requiring attribution etc... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On 7 April 2011 10:06, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir maxi...@gmail.com wrote: What happened to NearMap? Nearmap have refused to allow data derived from their imagery to be used without guarantee of attribution and share-a-like in a future license, or having a guarantee that such data would be removed if relicensing occurs. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 10:14 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 7 April 2011 10:06, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir maxi...@gmail.com wrote: What happened to NearMap? Nearmap have refused to allow data derived from their imagery to be used without guarantee of attribution and share-a-like in a future license, or having a guarantee that such data would be removed if relicensing occurs. Surely that's a simple procedural matter then (CT 1.2.4 already has the we reserve the right to delete your content for whatever reason), especially when changes through the NearMap editor can be tagged appropriately automatically. That would be the same situation we're in now; every major licence change has to be a fork of the old project and data owners can stop contributing in the future... that doesn't affect the past so end users can be assured the data is appropriately licensed. If LWG can negotiate special conditions (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/d/d8/Bing_license.pdf) with Bing, surely they can work something out with NearMap. I wouldn't want to get into a situation where you have to negotiate with every service/data provider (that's the point of open data licencing!) but a company that covers more area than some european countries to the community for free deserves a fair go. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On 7 April 2011 10:31, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir maxi...@gmail.com wrote: Surely that's a simple procedural matter then (CT 1.2.4 already has It always has been, but as others have pointed out, control of the process has gone on largely without proper consultation and feedback to better shape what mappers want. the we reserve the right to delete your content for whatever reason), especially when changes through the NearMap editor can be Unfortunately the language used as part of that clause isn't strong enough, they may decide it's too difficult and they can't be bothered to remove it. If LWG can negotiate special conditions (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/d/d8/Bing_license.pdf) with Bing, surely they can work something out with NearMap. It seems to me that they don't want to do anything that would limit them from moving to PD in future. I wouldn't want to get into a situation where you have to negotiate with every service/data provider (that's the point of open data licencing!) but a company that covers more area than some european countries to the community for free deserves a fair go. That isn't the problem since most projects have always used fixed license conditions, eg linux kernel will always be GPL based, in fact it's only commercial companies that require you to hand over all rights like the CTs demand. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OpenStreetMap] OpenStreetMap is changing the licence
On 7 April 2011 09:42, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 09:17 +1000, Michael Hampson wrote: This came through over night. Is it a standard mailer going out to all? I received the same, so presumably yes. More importantly is it a official OSMF or semi-official LWG email, or just some pro-ODbL people spamming everyone? If it's the latter, then I don't think people should be doing that. Imagine the ruckus caused is some of the anti-ODbL people started spamming those that had accepted saying they should change their choice to Decline. -- James ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors
On 6 April 2011 21:47, All Blokes speed_13...@yahoo.com.au wrote: I was very keen and learning ...had done a few edits not many but I was planning on getting right into it. I don't agree with the new licensing and have just been sitting on the side reading. Just out of interest, I'd like to hear your opinion from the perspective of a new user, unjaded by the ugliness that has sometimes characterised this conversation on both sides. I feel like I am the customer who walked into the shop and didn't get any service. The licence discussion has been a huge distraction to the project, which is unfortunate. Hopefully we'll be out the other side soon, with each OSMer choosing their path onwards, or perhaps choosing to move on. However, I'm sure if you want to talk about mapping, or need any help there are many OSMers who would be more than happy to lend an hand. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OpenStreetMap] OpenStreetMap is changing the licence
More importantly is it a official OSMF or semi-official LWG email, or just some pro-ODbL people spamming everyone? Pretty sure it's the last one. I received it a few weeks back, even through i'd put a note on my OSM user page saying i didn't want it. I'm sure i've seen something on the OSM wiki about it, and there is the following on the top right of the odbl.de page: If you want to ask a user about the ODbL: 1. First check if the user hasn’t accepted already by clicking on the „H“ next to the username on this page (because this stats are only updated once a week) and if nobody else has bothered the user before (see the list in the wikihttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Asking_users_to_accept_the_ODbL ) 1. check the OSM user page (click on the username on this page) and the wiki page of the user (click on the “W” next to the username on this page) 1. do a web search on discussions of the user about the ODbL (click on the “S” next to the username on this page) Please write a friendly mail, asking if the user already knows about the licence change, where he could read more about the topic and how he could accept the licence. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
Supposedly it sends you to this flippant page if you decline the CT: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributor_Terms_Declined I think the lolcat picture on that page tells us exactly what they think of those of us that won't / can 't / don't want to accept their terms. Certainly helps give the impression of a professional organisation... (not) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On 7 April 2011 00:37, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Wed, 2011-04-06 at 22:09 +1000, Michael Hampson wrote: So is Phase 4 the end for those that don't agree? What happens to the data if we don't agree? and the data built on top of that data? Well, it depends what you read. According to the wiki, stage 4 is when OSM asks the community what will should happen for those who havent accepted the licence. One has to wonder if any of the comments from the past year or two will be taken into account when those in power decide to ask us mere mushrooms what we think. For clarity: - This will only affect (77,000) contributors who registered before May 2010 and who have not accepted the new terms as part of the voluntary re-licensing program. For clarity: (according to odbl.de) In Australia: - This will remove 57% of users - This will remove 67% of nodes, 66% of ways and 86% of relations In UK: - This will remove 65% of users - This will remove 40% of nodes, 40% of ways and 10% of relations In Europe: - This will remove 61% of users - This will remove 20% of nodes, 20% of ways and 15% of relations For pete's sake! Stop making up blatantly untrue stuff. Those are likely the precentages if we moved *today* without even formally contacting/emailing anyone. It is fairly clear that the Australian issue has very little value to those in Europe in control of the project at the moment. The fact that the number of users lost is in the same ballpark while the amount of data lost is significantly higher in our part of the world, seems to show the regions and the users whos interests they are looking out for. Please stop making grossly untrue statements. - Once a contributor has Accepted/Declined the new terms, they may continue editting normally. Even if they decline, they may continue editting normally until and if Phase 4 kicks in. Maybe I missed the announcement, but is there now an option to record that you decline the licence? Read the original mail that Mike posted to the DEV mailinglist... it is about planning the changes to the editor software before main announcements. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 03:19 +0100, Grant Slater wrote: For clarity: (according to odbl.de) In Australia: For pete's sake! Stop making up blatantly untrue stuff. Those are likely the precentages if we moved *today* without even formally contacting/emailing anyone. I never made anything up. The closest I came to 'making up' was being creative with the summary of 3 relevant regions and rounding the numbers up. The figures I quoted came from the URL I gave, and anyone is welcome to research this themselves. The webpage suggests that these are the accurate percentages (with upto 1 week delay). It is fairly clear that the Australian issue has very little value to those in Europe in control of the project at the moment. The fact that the number of users lost is in the same ballpark while the amount of data lost is significantly higher in our part of the world, seems to show the regions and the users whos interests they are looking out for. Please stop making grossly untrue statements. What is untrue? Again, I only summarised what the statistics show. The fact that these statistics go against the ODbL propoganda, doesnt make them grossly untrue, it just makes them at odds with what some may believe. If you have figures for Australia which disprove the numbers on odbl.de then feel free to use them and cite your source, if you cant disprove the numbers and simply feel that theyre grossly untrue, then maybe you need to comprehend the statistics better. If the Australian issue is so important, as others have suggested why isnt OSMF seeking to make a rapid agreement with NearMap as was done with Bing? David - Once a contributor has Accepted/Declined the new terms, they may continue editting normally. Even if they decline, they may continue editting normally until and if Phase 4 kicks in. Maybe I missed the announcement, but is there now an option to record that you decline the licence? Read the original mail that Mike posted to the DEV mailinglist... it is about planning the changes to the editor software before main announcements. As far as I could tell, this email to the dev list is for what happens if people have chosen to decline the licence. The last Id heard, it was not possible to decline the licence, only to accept it. The issue of accepting/declining the licence is what Im talking about here, not the issue of what to do in the future if someone has declined (if such a mechanism is put in place). David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Nearmap
On 7 April 2011 12:57, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: If the Australian issue is so important, as others have suggested why isnt OSMF seeking to make a rapid agreement with NearMap as was done with Bing? This really needs to be done. Is wonder if this is just due to a shortage of time that the LWG hasn't included this as yet? It would be nice to think that seeing this issue primary affects Australians, that we could take the lead in doing this. However, I don't know how many on the OSM-AU list are ready to help in this kind of endevour? There are a range of approaches we could look at from both the Nearmap and the LWG perspectives. On the Nearmap side, there is clearly in my opinion a business benefit to Nearmap of having the OSM data closely aligned to the Nearmap images. It gives them an accurate, free and up-to-date streetmap layer, and for the foreseeable future attribution within the OSM data. And lets face it, the value in Nearmap's business proposition is accuracy and currency. If OSM went off the rails (and scrapped ODbL) in a way Nearmap didn't like, withdrawing OSM support from that moment onwards would see the data quickly lose currency. On the OSM side, I recognise several of the top contributors list as being nearmap mappers, and I'd hazard a guess that we are looking at possibly over 20% of the Australian data possibly impacted by this, so working this through has large benefits to OSM. At the most extreme end it could make the difference whether a viable OSM community continues in Australia under the OSM banner. There is a strong case if all else fails to allow at least the current nearmap data to be imported under a very ephemeral set of contributor terms just for this purpose, allowing the nearmap derived data to survive as long as the the attribution model persists. After all Nearmap are only objecting to a possibility of a future licence change, not the ODbL itself - and that may be many years distant. Jeopardising OSM in Australia at this juncture doesn't seem worth it when by the time we come to consider the next licence change the world of aerial image will likely have evolved dramatically. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
