Re: [talk-au] What A Day
Hi, That would be Steve Coast as the Troll of the day. CommonMap is the ccBY alternative (were also on the osm-fork mailing list) and doing just fine, thanks :) Now back to work on SchemaTroll 2.011 cheers, Sam On 7/8/11, Sam Couter wrote: > Andrew Laughton wrote: >> I would say a single troll, who it must be admitted has had quite a >> reaction. > > Are you referring to me or Steve? I assume it's one of us given our > message volume over the past couple of days. Name names! Quit being so > passive-aggressive, poor communication like that is what causes these > kinds of problems in the first place. > > Despite my disagreements with Steve, I don't think either of us is > trolling, so either way you're wrong. > >> It might be to distract mappers from discussing what they are doing. > > Here's my bit, and I encourage others to discuss their intentions: > > My contributions have never been all that significant, so it doesn't > really matter, but I'm not looking forward to seeing my past efforts > disappear and I'm undecided if I'm going to continue in the future. > FOSM doesn't yet seem to be a valid alternative either. > >> I personally cannot seem to be able to get any joy from fosm.org, at >> the moment I am just getting a "500 Internal Server Error" message. > > Me too. Previous efforts were more successful (no error messages), but > I've never seen a map, just a blank grey box where a map probably goes. > -- > Sam Couter | mailto:s...@couter.id.au > OpenPGP fingerprint: A46B 9BB5 3148 7BEA 1F05 5BD5 8530 03AE DE89 C75C > -- --- Across Canada Trails - Beyond 2017 - The National Trails Network Victoria, BC Canada Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: 'Sam Vekemans' Member, CommonMap Inc. http://commonmap.org/ IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #CommonMap Also find us on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] How to tag reaches (segments of a waterway)?
Hi,
'linear network water flow' should suffice. ... it's been recommended
to tag it as 'directional=yes' where it's just a line in the direction
of the water. .. if it's unknown 'directional=unknown'.
You could put 'oneway=yes' but don't let the talk-ca list know about
it as some people will get all excited about it.
... it'll just add a nice arrow across the river, and make it look good.
cheers,
sam
On 4/9/11, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> The historical map I'm getting the information from calls them "...
> Reach". According to
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reach_%28geography%29 "Most generally, a
> reach is any length of a stream between any two points."
>
> I can't think of a better term myself, so unless there are any other
> suggestions I'll use reach for the time being.
>
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 6:28 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2011 18:22:49 +1000
>> Andrew Harvey wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to map some named reaches ("straight portion of a stream
>>> or river, as from one turn to another;") part of a major river.
>>>
>>> The river (e.g.
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-33.50134&lon=150.8778&zoom=15&layers=M
>>> ) currently has both a riverbank area drawn, and a way down the middle
>>> of the river. To make things even more complicated, the way running
>>> down the middle of the river has both waterway tags and administrative
>>> boundary tags.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking the ideal way to map this (reaches + river + admin
>>> boundary) would be split the way into segments for each reach, tag
>>> each segment as waterway=reach, name=Foo Reach, then collect up the
>>> river segments into a relation which contains waterway=river, name=Bar
>>> River, and just leave the riverbank area as is. Not sure what to do
>>> with the admin boundary tags though.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what's best though. Any thoughts? Thanks.
>>>
>>
>> I'd be looking at another word for "reach". I'm not making any
>> suggestions, but it isn't a simple English term, and using difficult
>> terms makes the cross-language stuff hard.
>>
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>
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--
---
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Victoria, BC Canada
Twitter: @Acrosscanada
Blog: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans
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Re: [talk-au] Queensland, Australia: Protected areas (National Parks) - potential import dataset
Hi, If not done so already (the shp files are hard to find), perhaps upload this data to koordinates.com then it is a nice central place for this data to be found. In Canada (for the equivelent dataset), i just guessed on the tagging, and added it in. Fortunatly, my edits will be removed at April 1st, so it's not a problem. The 'community' might have a problem with including all those datafield tags, since 'on the ground rules', and OpenStreetMap does not intend on sharing corrections back to GA, so it's best to leave it out. ... and also slice it into small bits, so then the 'community' can manually add in the pieces locally. cheers, sam On 3/11/11, Chris Barham wrote: > Hi, > > I couldn't find any discussion of this dataset and it's suitability for > import - it's the protected areas of Qld (National Parks, State Forests > etc). I've had a look and wondered what people thought about moving it > forward somehow?. > I put this page together on the wiki with the info found so far to support > this potential source: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia/Queensland/The_Department_of_Environment_and_Resource_Management/Protected_Areas_Import > > What's the general consensus? > > Cheers, > Chris > -- --- Across Canada Trails - Beyond 2017 - The National Trails Network Victoria, BC Canada Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: 'Sam Vekemans' Member, CommonMap Inc. http://commonmap.org/ IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #CommonMap Also find us on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
Oops, I mean restrict Imagery URLs. ... sorry got carried away on the last message :) On 1/30/11, Sam Vekemans wrote: > CommonMap fosm, and perhaps wikimapia in the future, and anyone who > likes to use the great josm software. > ... I'm using it to convert .osm to .gpx and .osm to .img > > > After using shp-to-osm.jar, i use JOSM to work with the data > > > ... I should be able to trace what i like, and create what i want ... > never touching the osm-api. > > > Incase JOSM developers do decide to block 'outside world users' > qgis.org does exist, and it's a powerfull tool... So all is not lost. > > > It's a good think that potlatch2 doesn't restrict APIs :) > > > > cheers, > Sam > > On 1/30/11, John Smith wrote: >> On 31 January 2011 02:26, Richard Weait wrote: >>> You aren't addressing the core question. "Given that the new imagery >>> plugin has made it much simpler to accidentally infringe, is a URL >>> blacklist a suitable way to raise that barrier closer to where it was >>> a few weeks ago?" >> >> However David's point, and Anthony and mine and Dirks where, why >> should JOSM only support things that are applicable to OSM-F? >> >> Perhaps some other community out there doesn't care about Google's >> terms and conditions, why should it come down to baby sitting people? >> >> ___ >> Talk-au mailing list >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >> > > > -- > Twitter: @Acrosscanada > Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ > http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans > Skype: samvekemans > IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) > @Acrosscanadatrails > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
CommonMap fosm, and perhaps wikimapia in the future, and anyone who likes to use the great josm software. ... I'm using it to convert .osm to .gpx and .osm to .img After using shp-to-osm.jar, i use JOSM to work with the data ... I should be able to trace what i like, and create what i want ... never touching the osm-api. Incase JOSM developers do decide to block 'outside world users' qgis.org does exist, and it's a powerfull tool... So all is not lost. It's a good think that potlatch2 doesn't restrict APIs :) cheers, Sam On 1/30/11, John Smith wrote: > On 31 January 2011 02:26, Richard Weait wrote: >> You aren't addressing the core question. "Given that the new imagery >> plugin has made it much simpler to accidentally infringe, is a URL >> blacklist a suitable way to raise that barrier closer to where it was >> a few weeks ago?" > > However David's point, and Anthony and mine and Dirks where, why > should JOSM only support things that are applicable to OSM-F? > > Perhaps some other community out there doesn't care about Google's > terms and conditions, why should it come down to baby sitting people? > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Brisbane Flooding on NearMap
JOSM 3751 has the nearmap slippymap (i think that's the older josm). My idea is to use josm for the detailed tracing, then use qgis to convert it to a .shp file layer. Then upload it to koordinates.com as a public layer called 'your version of floodmess area'. If many people do this, then we have (on koordinates.com) a bunch of layers which are all similar, so it gets a 'croudsource view' of the area effected. The darker/higher concentratin of coverage, would tell those who would need to know, exactly where the floodline/contour is. This method is NOT using OpenStreetMap, but it's still 'crowdsourcing'. Worth a try :) ... also geocommons.com could be used to upload your version of the .shp file area. I'll have computer time sunday/monday to get started and upload my version. cheers, Sam ps. does anyone have a time stamp for exactly when the flood reached peak height? (might show up on wikipedia, havent checked) On 1/14/11, Brendan Morley wrote: > Folks > > NearMap's flood run of Brisbane is partially online. e.g. in the CBD > through to Oxley Creek at least. > > Sam Vekemans has expressed interest to me in helping trace the flood line. > > All I can say to that right now is please trace not just to the level of > the visible floodwater but also the traces of where it's been. For > example, it's fairly obvious on most of the roads where the "high tide" > of the silt/sludge has been. This will be an invaluable resource in, > essentially, "where not to build". > > I have no idea what to tag it, I'm sure you'll work something out. > > > Brendan > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] What's happening in April? (was: Re: Suitable Garmin GPS Devices)
/me is hoping that there will be multiple API instances globally so then the planet load can be shared. Ideally, designated country-specific APIs which require a unique login will be setup and ready for april 1st.. This makes for merging the API's at a later date (when the dust settles) MUCH easier. cheers, Sam On 1/3/11, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: >> On being able to add to the data - note that there is a split in the >> community over the new licence for OSM and some substantial >> contributors to the Australian map will provide no more data to OSM >> after April Fool's Day. >> We will have alternate data sources by then. > > Oh, this is news. What's happening in April? (I guess I am not one of > "the substantial contributors" :)) > > Steve > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Looks like Nearmap is gone from JOSM slippymap plugin
Yes, hopefully the OSM-Foundation will provide a full planet.osm file. ... However, to be on the safe side (there is no benifit for osm-foundation to help), having a bunch (i'd say at least 10) copies of the latest planet.osm scattered across many websites / offlines and external hard drives will ensure the safety of the years of volunteers efforts. Also, having local regional copies of .osm files will make the task easier to filter out the data by users (and licences). This way once the other API's are called to help (March 1st 2011), we will have a good volume of data to begin (or keep going as in the case of fosm.org) so then it will cause a very minimal disruption for mappers of all types. cheers, sam On 12/18/10, Andrew Harvey wrote: > On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 1:15 PM, David Murn wrote: >> On Sun, 2010-12-19 at 09:49 +1100, Andrew Harvey wrote: >>> I've put some details on how to add NearMap back in for the latest >>> JOSM versions on the wiki, >> >> Why? Did you fail to read the minutes that were posted? Basically OSMF >> has given itself the ultimate authority to remove all non-compliant data >> by end of March. The foundation board also considered the loss of data >> and does not consider its removal a reason not to proceed with new >> terms. >> >> It appears the foundation have given a big screw-you to every >> contributor who has contributed and complained about very minor wording >> in their new licences, and considers that the removal of our contributed >> data, is acceptable. That its better to have a blank map than it is to >> have a project of happy contributors. >> >> So, whens the aussie fork coming? > > The OSMF stated that there will be a (full history?) dump prior to any > removal of CC BY-SA data, this can then form the start of the osm > ccbysa fork. > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] license change map
Yup, geocommons.com does this. Just upload the data (in small pieces) to geocommons, and the community can use the data as layers, searching for what i available. I use openJUMP, an easy program to learn, to view shp files, and extract a small area and separating it from feature attribute. cheers, sam On 11/20/10, Neil Penman wrote: > Wouldn't this problem be easier to manage if each CC-BY data source was kept > in > separate data store which is combined as a layer on the client or tile > server? > These layers could then be attributed when or if they are actually shown. > This > would also simplify the situation where data such as the postcode boundaries > is > being attributed to the ABS but has been changed by an OSM mapper, possibly > not > for the better, as well as allowing us to easily incorporate updates. > > > > > From: Alex (Maxious) Sadleir > To: OSM Australian Talk List > Sent: Sun, 21 November, 2010 3:13:16 PM > Subject: Re: [talk-au] license change map > > ... > > There was a issue being explored about the fact that the Contributor > Terms (rather than ODbL itself) allowed relicencing but didn't > explicitly ensure that attribution was maintained: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Open_Issues#Incompatibility_with_CC-BY_.2F_Attribution_Data > > Attribution is a big thing to comply with the spirit of the government > data releases but the respondent on that wiki page states "Should a > data donor feel that this [attribution on derived works] is important, > then probably that data should not be in OSM, no matter what license > we use.". > This seems out of touch with the situation on the ground; one of the > big things any data donor is going to get out of providing their data > is free advertising for how public minded they are. I would think the > better solution is to have the attribution simplified like Google Maps > does. eg. Google Maps for canberra says "Copyright PSMA, MapQuest" > etc. OSM post-ODbL could have a technical solution that suggests to > derivative users (Mapnik etc.) if you want to make a map of data > between -35.15, 149.00 and -35.3, 149.25, it should have "Source: OSM > Contributors, ABS, Geoscience Australia" on it. In the case of > Australia, we also have stuff like the Service Stations and I don't > know the attribution requirements on those but I'm sure that there > aren't so many data imports that there would be difficulty attributing > them when they are visible. ie. The ABS suburbs aren't visible on a > world map but the UN coastline boundaries are so give credit where > credit is due. > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > > > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY geodatasets now appearing on Information Queensland
Hi, Here's the link to it. http://dds.information.qld.gov.au/dds/ My guess would be that the Government departments that still sell the datasets, probably just need to wait until contracts are up from all of the people who purchased data. So to be fair, if i was one of those people who paid for the data, then the next week saw that the very same data is given for free. I'd probably want to get a refund. so perhaps they need to wait until the dataset purchased get old, and out of date to be made available? .or maybe they need to wait until a change in government for this to happen? It would be great to see the data available from the ftp server directly... but that would be too easy. :) On the todo-list, is to cross-reference with the National GeoScience Austrailia data and see where their is duplication. The assumption is that it would be derived from the same source, but just older. Can anyone verify this? Thanks, Sam --- Across Canada Trails - Beyond 2017 - The National Trails Network Victoria, BC Canada Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: 'Sam Vekemans' IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #CommonMap The Common Map channel (an open chat room) On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:30 PM, Brendan Morley wrote: > Hello Australian Mappers, > > I've just noticed a few of the datasets on Information Queensland now > have the CC BY endorsement and not just the DERM Open Short Licence > (which for example prohibits redistribution). > > They seem to be just the datasets that DERM and GA have exclusive IP > rights to, e.g.: > > Locality Boundaries > LGA Boundaries > Place Names Gazetteer > Ordered Drainage > > Examples still on DERM Open Short Licence: > > Property Addresses > Property Boundaries > Elevation Contours > > > Brendan > > -- > Brendan Morley > President, CommonMap Inc. > morb...@commonmap.info > http://commonmap.org/ > Queensland Incorporated Association 37762 > Also find us on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn > -- > > > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Is the RTA making their own fork..
Yup, thats what it looks like, it states http://www.mybikeroute.info/about+My+Bikeroute/default.aspx "• To be included in the underlying dataset for an online bike trip-planning facility offered through the Transport Info 131500 website" http://www.131500.com.au/maps/cycling And looking at the PDFs, it appears that it would simply be an overlay ontop of their own geo-data. But it's great to see that they are embracing the concept of croudsourcing, to make the city dataset better :) Cheers, Sam On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: > Hmm, interesting. Anyone know any more about it? > > I doubt they're making a "fork" - probably just an extra layer that > sits on top of google maps? > > Steve > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:26 AM, David Murn wrote: >> >From the NSW RTA website.. >> >> http://www.mybikeroute.info/ >> >> ‘My Bikeroute’ is the first step in a NSW Government program to improve >> the availability of information about bike-riding in the State. In this >> first, 10-week phase we are asking cyclists to help us map the >> ‘bikeable’ street network in Greater Sydney – not the bike lanes, shared >> paths or marked bike routes that make up the existing cycleway network, >> but those links in the local street and path system that are good places >> to ride, being quieter, more direct, less hilly or simpler to navigate >> than a busy road. We are also collecting information on bicycle >> hazards. >> >> Maybe they should be encouraged to use existing OSM data, and contribute >> their data back.. if there werent so many issues with licences, maybe >> they would? >> >> >> ___ >> Talk-au mailing list >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >> > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] OSM alternatives...
Oh :) Here's the link https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Am70fsptsPF2dDNEdUpoMDZzSWxXRThGeklDeUtnblE&hl=en I'm still working on the others (canvec/tiger/garmin/linz/coraine/Ordnance Survay) on the offline version, since there is so many edits going on. Cheers, Sam On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:08 AM, Sam Vekemans wrote: > hi, > Just checking, > has anyone gone through the geoscience map features and matched it up > with OSM tags? > > > I have the Google Docs chart and am just guessing at what each feature > should be represented on a mapnik map as. > > > I can invite anyone in as editors, just ask :) > > > Thanks, > Sam > > On 9/21/10, John Smith wrote: >> It doesn't seem likely things are going to be resolved to everyone's >> liking, in fact there seems to be a new type of service popping up >> every other week. >> >> So to this end I just filed a bug with JOSM asking to get multiple >> credentials stored and some easy way to switch between them. This is >> so you don't need to run JOSM under multiple usernames when you are >> playing with or editing data on various other services that are >> compatible with the OSM APIs. >> >> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/5490 >> >> ___ >> Talk-au mailing list >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >> > > > -- > Twitter: @Acrosscanada > Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ > http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans > Skype: samvekemans > IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) > @Acrosscanadatrails > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] OSM alternatives...
hi, Just checking, has anyone gone through the geoscience map features and matched it up with OSM tags? I have the Google Docs chart and am just guessing at what each feature should be represented on a mapnik map as. I can invite anyone in as editors, just ask :) Thanks, Sam On 9/21/10, John Smith wrote: > It doesn't seem likely things are going to be resolved to everyone's > liking, in fact there seems to be a new type of service popping up > every other week. > > So to this end I just filed a bug with JOSM asking to get multiple > credentials stored and some easy way to switch between them. This is > so you don't need to run JOSM under multiple usernames when you are > playing with or editing data on various other services that are > compatible with the OSM APIs. > > https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/5490 > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap
Some datasets are ok to use, what the CT fails to mention is the fact that the OSMF can made the decision on weather or not to accept a dataset. Specifically because the humble contributor cannot guarantee that they represent or have the exact 'direct permission' as it could have been just a coffe chat "sure you can use it" (when the actual dataset copyright holder doesnt fully understand the CT, nor has hired a lawer to answer the question 'officially'. *** You agree to only add Contents for which You are the copyright holder (to the extent the Contents include any copyrightable elements). You represent and warrant that You are legally entitled to grant the licence in Section 2 below and that such licence does not violate any law, breach any contract, or, to the best of Your knowledge, infringe any third party’s rights. If You are not the copyright holder of the Contents, You represent and warrant that You have explicit permission from the rights holder to submit the Contents and grant the licence below. ** However, if the OSMF authorizes a working group who can act on behalf of the Foundation, they can approve of data sets, and directly do the conversion, so then the overall community does not need to be concerned. And just wait for the OSMF to announce that data is available as small .osm files hosted on the osmf server so the community can work at copying the data in. Like many other datasets, we have direct permission to use it. (Someone from NRCan gave direct permission and wants OSM to use the map data) Plus the OSMF voted in favour to use it. (back in 2008) Therefore, this sets a president for all other datasets with a similar license, that if it receives 1 - a positive vote from the OSMF AND 2 - Direct permission (in writing) from someone who can act on behalf the source. Then it's ok to use. (So the actual text of the license doesn't matter when the 1st 2 points are provided). So then a vote can happen for if OSMF wants to retain whatever tainted data they choose to accept. I have already specifically requested the OSMF to have a Imports Working group, so then can look at all of the datasets and vote on each. Thus, fulfilling the requirements of "Formal Discussion Required" [1] Unfortunately, it seems that the OSMF is not interested in directly ensuring the quality of the database as a 'pure odbl' dataset. The work required to create a new empty dataset, and directly copy in all of the 'Officially supported' data, can be simply crowd-sourced. Tagging can be fixed with the more correct tags, and there will be no duplicate nodes, and no messy imported data, as all datasets will require the OSMF to approve it (and probably should be only the OSMF appointed people to copy in the bulk data directly). This will ensure 100% compliance. (this is an obvious solution, that everyone can be happy with), so those who choose not to accept ODbl can continue and work on another project (outside of OSM) with a minimal interruption for actual mapping for everyone (whatever 'actual' means to the contributors). :) The final planet.osm file will be made available, where users can copy in data that has approval. (and even trace over the old map, (where the non-compliant data is removed kept in another planet.osm file for others to use) The alternate, is that after the changeover, the OSM map will be a tainted dataset with no way to filter out the data. My toonie, Cheers, Sam p.s. here's the chart i mention in the below message. (it's open access editing) https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Am70fsptsPF2dERHb1RkcXIwMUU1TDR3NF9NbWQxS3c&hl=en&output=html [1] -- Forwarded message -- From: Sam Vekemans Date: Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 5:09 AM Subject: imports working group To: board Board Hi, Does OSM Foundation not have an 'Imports Working Group', where this commitee can have the final say in any data that can be used in OpenStreetMap? I am creating a database chart, for just this purpose, and can include a column 'OSM Foundation approved' with a link. This way, there will be no question on if a dataset is Ok ... regardless of the licence... the OSMF has the power to make a decision on the datasets. since OSMF owns the api and main servers. Unlike small-time contributor edits .. bulk data (of any size) should go through the OSMF - imports working group... and pubmit it to the board for an approval vote for each dataset. ... ps. this is why i recommend converting the data to .osm 1st... then let the community look at it an examine it. We did this for CanVec and geobaseNHN and statscan... and it works just fine. Thanks, Sam -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM cha
Re: [talk-au] Geoscience Austrailia - international tagging standards
Cool, thanks. It's alot of info to go through, so i stared this message, to get back to this list once i have the master documen complete (to the point where i no longer need to be the one to maintain it it, since it will be freely open to the public.) ... i would make the database available now, its just that it's still in beta so many changes are happening to it I'll contact geoscience Austrailia Directly for more details. Thanks, Sam On 9/12/10, Markus wrote: > Hi Sam, > > You might find this site interesting. Found it yesterday. I am interested in > adding mine locations for Australia to osm using the data from the > Geoscience Australian Atlas. > > http://www.infomine.com/maps/ > > > Note not all data sources would be suitable for osm use. > > Regards, > > Markus_g > > -Original Message- > From: samvekem...@gmail.com [mailto:samvekem...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Sam > Vekemans > Sent: Sunday, 12 September 2010 6:07 PM > To: Markus > Cc: aust...@lists.osgeo.org; OSM Australian Talk List > Subject: Re: [talk-au] Geoscience Austrailia - international tagging > standards > > Thanks, > The Aboriginal Lands data is an interesting dataset, because in > Canada's CanVec data it's only available as points, but through a > separate arm of The federal government, the polygon data is available > throuh geobase, just as the National protected areas are available in > a separate dataset ... Canada Post has postcode boundaries and > Statistics Canada has admin boundaries. > > > Does Australia have a similar situation? If so, can someone provide > links to locations of other datasets? > > > Thanks, > Sam > > > p.s. im sending this to the outer osgeo mailing list, as my project is > looking at all geo data, not necessarly data that will be used for > OpenStreetMap > > On 9/12/10, Markus wrote: >> >> Hi Sam, >> >> Here is a tagging scheme that may match one the themes that includes >> protected areas, such as for national-parks, water protection areas or >> indigenous areas or etc.: >> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dprotected_area >> >> Also here is a link to the map features page. >> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features >> >> Regards, >> >> Markus_g >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: talk-au-boun...@openstreetmap.org >> [mailto:talk-au-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Sam Vekemans >> Sent: Sunday, 12 September 2010 2:19 PM >> To: aust...@lists.osgeo.org; OSM Australian Talk List >> Subject: [talk-au] Geoscience Austrailia - international tagging standards >> >> Hi all, >> I am currently (just about done) going through the Geoscience >> Austrailia pdf user guide, which lists all of the map features for in >> the 'Geodata Topo 250k Series 3 User Guide' >> >> >> There are about 159 unique map features, divided into 10 themes. >> >> >> Whats interesting is to compare these features with the Natural >> Resources Canada CanVec dataset (which is also at 250k scale). >> There are many similarities (some differnces) in the datasets. >> >> >> I am developing a Universal tagging Schema (I call 'SchemaTroll 2.01') >> where it can look at the map features from Datasets around the world >> (including the Garmin defaults) and cross-reference it with the >> 'free-tagging system' of OpenStreetMap. >> >> >> So i am wondering if anyone has aldready examined these 159 features >> and selected an appropriate estimated equivelent to OpenStreetMap >> tags. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Sam Vekemans >> Across Canada Trails >> WikiMAP Books. >> >> -- >> Twitter: @Acrosscanada >> Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ >> http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com >> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans >> Skype: samvekemans >> IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) >> @Acrosscanadatrails >> >> ___ >> Talk-au mailing list >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >> >> > > > -- > Twitter: @Acrosscanada > Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ > http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans > Skype: samvekemans > IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) > @Acrosscanadatrails > > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Geoscience Austrailia - international tagging standards
Thanks, The Aboriginal Lands data is an interesting dataset, because in Canada's CanVec data it's only available as points, but through a separate arm of The federal government, the polygon data is available throuh geobase, just as the National protected areas are available in a separate dataset ... Canada Post has postcode boundaries and Statistics Canada has admin boundaries. Does Australia have a similar situation? If so, can someone provide links to locations of other datasets? Thanks, Sam p.s. im sending this to the outer osgeo mailing list, as my project is looking at all geo data, not necessarly data that will be used for OpenStreetMap On 9/12/10, Markus wrote: > > Hi Sam, > > Here is a tagging scheme that may match one the themes that includes > protected areas, such as for national-parks, water protection areas or > indigenous areas or etc.: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dprotected_area > > Also here is a link to the map features page. > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features > > Regards, > > Markus_g > > > -Original Message- > From: talk-au-boun...@openstreetmap.org > [mailto:talk-au-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Sam Vekemans > Sent: Sunday, 12 September 2010 2:19 PM > To: aust...@lists.osgeo.org; OSM Australian Talk List > Subject: [talk-au] Geoscience Austrailia - international tagging standards > > Hi all, > I am currently (just about done) going through the Geoscience > Austrailia pdf user guide, which lists all of the map features for in > the 'Geodata Topo 250k Series 3 User Guide' > > > There are about 159 unique map features, divided into 10 themes. > > > Whats interesting is to compare these features with the Natural > Resources Canada CanVec dataset (which is also at 250k scale). > There are many similarities (some differnces) in the datasets. > > > I am developing a Universal tagging Schema (I call 'SchemaTroll 2.01') > where it can look at the map features from Datasets around the world > (including the Garmin defaults) and cross-reference it with the > 'free-tagging system' of OpenStreetMap. > > > So i am wondering if anyone has aldready examined these 159 features > and selected an appropriate estimated equivelent to OpenStreetMap > tags. > > > Thanks, > Sam Vekemans > Across Canada Trails > WikiMAP Books. > > -- > Twitter: @Acrosscanada > Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ > http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans > Skype: samvekemans > IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) > @Acrosscanadatrails > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Geoscience Austrailia - international tagging standards
Hi all, I am currently (just about done) going through the Geoscience Austrailia pdf user guide, which lists all of the map features for in the 'Geodata Topo 250k Series 3 User Guide' There are about 159 unique map features, divided into 10 themes. Whats interesting is to compare these features with the Natural Resources Canada CanVec dataset (which is also at 250k scale). There are many similarities (some differnces) in the datasets. I am developing a Universal tagging Schema (I call 'SchemaTroll 2.01') where it can look at the map features from Datasets around the world (including the Garmin defaults) and cross-reference it with the 'free-tagging system' of OpenStreetMap. So i am wondering if anyone has aldready examined these 159 features and selected an appropriate estimated equivelent to OpenStreetMap tags. Thanks, Sam Vekemans Across Canada Trails WikiMAP Books. -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Generating good looking PDF/SVG maps?
And don't forget the team @ KDE Marble Desktop, has the ability to save PNG at any map view. The linux version also uses the CycleMap :-) On 6/18/10, Sam Vekemans wrote: > Its on my list to set up an OpenOfficeDraw template where all you need > todo is to copy the pdf from walking-papers.org and paste it into the > document, and move it to the bottom layer. Then edit the title and the > legend and the POI list to suit the area. > > I know that doesnt help you today, but there are people working on it :) > > Every printed map, needs to have some manual creative work done on it. > > The technology from Open Orienteeringmap is close, but it doesnt > support mapnik. And hikebikemap.de has a great rendering, but isnt on > walking-papers.org, nor OpenOrienteeringmap > > Its also on maposmatic's list to get a proper legend, as well as > maperitive. > > inkscape allows for svg opening & saving it as a Oo file, to break > apart and easily manipulate the map. > > Cheers, > Sam > > On 6/18/10, John Smith wrote: >> On 19 June 2010 09:30, Ben Kelley wrote: >>> The export from the OSM web site only exports the rendering of the main >>> street map layer (from a PDF or SVG point of view). >> >> The only other code I know about is this: >> >> http://www.mappage.org/atlas/ >> >> But you have to setup your own rendering system and that would be a >> show stopper for most people. >> >> ___ >> Talk-au mailing list >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >> > > > -- > Twitter: @Acrosscanada > Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ > http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans > Skype: samvekemans > IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) > @Acrosscanadatrails > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Generating good looking PDF/SVG maps?
Its on my list to set up an OpenOfficeDraw template where all you need todo is to copy the pdf from walking-papers.org and paste it into the document, and move it to the bottom layer. Then edit the title and the legend and the POI list to suit the area. I know that doesnt help you today, but there are people working on it :) Every printed map, needs to have some manual creative work done on it. The technology from Open Orienteeringmap is close, but it doesnt support mapnik. And hikebikemap.de has a great rendering, but isnt on walking-papers.org, nor OpenOrienteeringmap Its also on maposmatic's list to get a proper legend, as well as maperitive. inkscape allows for svg opening & saving it as a Oo file, to break apart and easily manipulate the map. Cheers, Sam On 6/18/10, John Smith wrote: > On 19 June 2010 09:30, Ben Kelley wrote: >> The export from the OSM web site only exports the rendering of the main >> street map layer (from a PDF or SVG point of view). > > The only other code I know about is this: > > http://www.mappage.org/atlas/ > > But you have to setup your own rendering system and that would be a > show stopper for most people. > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Natural Earth Data
Cool, No idea about the legals. ... it looks like it's Public Domain... But i think it does help with the GroundTruthPlanet Contour Garmin Maps than im making :) As well as serves as the good grid for the WikiMAP Books that im working on. Great Find, Cheers, Sam On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Ben Last wrote: > Anyone know if this has any relationship to OSM (i.e, is partly derived from > OSM, or has been used as a basis for OSM)? > http://www.naturalearthdata.com/ > Cheers > b > > -- > Ben Last > Development Manager (HyperWeb) > NearMap Pty Ltd > > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 2:06 PM, John Smith wrote: > On 3 March 2010 07:56, Roy Wallace wrote: >> I disagree! Be careful not to be condescending to other mappers, and > > I'm not being condescending, but realistic, accidents happen and > people do bad things on purpose. > >> please don't be "protective" of the data that you could otherwise make >> available. We're all just as sensible as you. > > That would be nice, but there is always bad apples and accidents. > >> It's good to discuss when and how imports should be made, but not good >> to discuss who should be allowed or denied access to that data on the >> basis of how "zealous" they may or may not be. > > Being a little protective will save a lot of hassle undoing the damage later. > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > Hi, I'll just jump in here :) Hopefully, one of these days the City of Victoria, BC will open up their data also. :-) Anyway, i'd recommend using a GoogleDocs spreadsheet & listing all of the available .osm files. and listing those users who are the ones who are improting the data. ... and just invite all of the interested mappers to become editors to this spreadsheet. I highly recommend the approach of the local area mapper is the one who actually adds in the data, rather than just 1 person dropping the files remotely. ... as it's the local area mappers who care the most about the data quality. And knows what data is the most accurate & relevant. I'd recommend processing the .osm files 1 level further & dividing it up in regional areas. .. so its more manageable. I dont know if you have NTS type tiles, but a similar approach by using a grid, and all the data for that grid is available. Here's what we've found (in Canada) is that i went ahead and dropped in some test areas on Vancouver Island, just to get some feedback on what specifically the tags should be. We found that there was considerable duplicate nodes as well as extra tags that aren't really needed. So the solution is what i mentioned above, by splicing up the area into smaller quadrants, then only the local area mappers will be the one who actually "copies-in" the data. ... i dont really like the term 'importing' as this method is not actually 'importing' but rather, enhancing the local area with more data that is available. In our case, for the Province of Ontario, we have a whole TONNE of data available, from the Federal Government, as well as each city is starting to open up their data. The resault is that we have multiple datasets of 'trail data' (for example). So the best solution is that we actually convert ALL of the data thats available to .osm files. And we also make the data available as .gpx files. So we can overlay the .osm files to the local area that we are working on, then simply 'enhance' the area with the best data from each of the sources. The end result will be a much better map, because it's local area mappers that are enhancing the map. The data that is available from the different sources, will not be as good as good as what the local area mapper knows of the area. ... it's also a good reason to host mapping parties for each local area. So then for those areas that are a bit remote, the team of people can divide up and claim the areas that they want & enhance the map. ... if the data doesn't end up getting used until a year from now, that's no big deal. The data is available to us for our use, it should really be up to local area mappers to decide on what data to use to enhance the map.... sometimes the old fashioned way (manual mapping) proves to be better :) My 2 cents. Cheers, Sam Vekemans Across Canada Trails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Intro video to OSM in Australia
Hi, wandermap.net already donates tracks to OSM. Having more people contact varies sites; everytrail.com; wikiloc.com; bikely.com; bikemap.net and explain the benifit of both showing OpenCycleMap as a slippymap and donating GPS tracks. ... Will help. Im now regularly using the Google Earth KML overlay with OSM & OCM. I think once that gets more notice, we will see an influx of contributors. I promote people using other track sharing sites (like bikeMap.net) BECAUSE it shows OCM. And then i explain that to help make the map better, people can donate tracks to OSM & edit the map. Yup, im also working on a little intro video. Great ideas :-) Sam On 12/16/09, John Smith wrote: > 2009/12/17 Chris Barham : >> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Steve Bennett >> wrote: >>> >>> Has anyone on this list had any success approaching groups to encourage >>> them to join? >> >> Can I make a suggestion that somebody approach Audax Australia as part of >> any outreach programme?. They do long cycle road rides in areas that OSM >> is >> unlikely to have many GPS traces for, but for which Audax could presumably >> use OSM mapping: >> http://audax.org.au/public/ >> Their club magazine, "Checkpoint", is also looking for contributions on >> any >> topic related to endurance cycling (perhaps an OSM introduction would be a >> goodtopic ?): >> Checkpoint Contributing info: http://j.mp/6dy77x > > I wonder if there is some well read mags for 4wders/hikers/etc also > that we could modify a submission to make it relevent and submit, > there should be examples of these types of map data already in OSM's > DB so we should be able to not only write on the topic but illistrate > it as well. > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap PhotoMap imagery for OSM
Sweet! I think that once other Municipalities around the world get wind of this, they will get jellious and want to make their images available too. :-) Thanks for sharing your methods :) i cc'd this to the imports list, so others can check the archives of this list to get the details. Cheers, Sam On 11/7/09, John Smith wrote: > 2009/11/5 Peter Ross : >> So for me source=nearmap is all that is needed. > > I've been thinking about this, if they're going to re-fly over cities, > and judging by their existing WA imagery things on the images jump > 1-2m in some cases, it might be useful to figure out the current > imagery date and add that as well. > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [Talk-ca] Sam's summery essay (was Re: Correcting Geobase_import_2009)
Hi all, James did a good summery explaining the concept of 'social impact of Bulk Importing', perhaps better than i did. Just substitute the word 'geobase' for 'the data source', and it really can apply internationally. And suffixing it with the assumption that the geobase-source-file.osm is available to use (and download from somewhere). Cheers, Sam On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 5:10 PM, James Ewen wrote: > On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 1:19 AM, Sam Vekemans > wrote: > > > This message is directed to the talk-ca list, as it serves as a summery > for > > the latest and greatest. In a month or so, I'll be able to summarize in > 1 > > page. But for now, I've put a lot of thought into the below message, > so, > > although long and rambley... it's the best answer i got :) > > Wow, Sam... I made it through the whole spiel, and even stayed with > your thought process through the whole thing... that's a first! 8) > > > > Here's the low-down. (social impact) > > We respect the integrity of the local area mapper who spent a > considerable > > amount of time either tracing from imagery, or tracing from there own GPS > > tracks and place this on a HIGHER priority than that of > geobase/canvec > > data. > > So, again... this is Openstreetmap, where its a collaborative community > who > > builds the map. ... we respect the integrity of the local area mapper who > > spent a considerable amount of time either tracing from imagery, or > tracing > > from there own GPS tracks and place this on a HIGHER priority than > that > > of geobase/canvec data. > > > I think this type of statement is what is causing problems. We should > not use a blanket statement that OSM data of any quality is sacred... > OSM data is a living database that everyone can work on. Data that > you, I, or anyone else enters into the database is not locked into the > database never to be modified. If another user comes along and wants > to add tags, modify the way to (hopefully) increase the accuracy of > the data, or even remove the data should the real world object the > data is representing should be removed or destroyed. > > The issue is that data being imported by a bulk import script should > not be blindly imported damaging or destroying work that has been done > by a real live OSM user. The key concept in that statement is BULK > IMPORT SCRIPT. > > If a user has the complete GeoBase file for the area and is putting > the time and effort into verifying and checking the GeoBase data > versus the OSM data, and comes up with the conclusion that the GeoBase > data does a better job of describing the way, then they should feel > free to modify/remove the lower quality OSM data, and copy the better > quality GeoBase data into the OSM database. > > Another concept to remember is that there does not have to be an > exclusion clause. One does not have to choose to go with only OSM data > or GeoBase data. One could use a high resolution OSM GPS trace based > way, and copy the GeoBase tags onto the OSM way. There's also the > possibility that some of the tags on a low quality OSM way might be > useful if copied onto the higher quality GeoBase way. > > What we need to do, is to take the best data that we can find from > whatever source is available (that meets OSM guidelines), and merge > that into the database. The bulk import scripts are written to do > that, but only where an easy decision can be made, which is based only > on the easily determined logical choice... Is there any existing OSM > data at this location? If the answer is no, then import the GeoBase > data. > > We need to have real people make the harder decisions where the > GeoBase data and OSM data overlap. That's where we are at in areas > that have been imported, and people are seeing holes between the > GeoBase data, and OSM data. > > Feel free to get your fingers dirty... get in there and make an > informed decision about what data to include in the OSM database. Just > don't blindly wipe out existing OSM data to import a bunch of bulk > data. > > It's not a GeoBase versus OSM issue, but rather a data quality issue, > and it is up to the OSM community to get in there and determine which > data has the best quality, and if required merge both sources to come > up with an even better final product. > > I did the same type of thing when I was tracing hundreds of kilometres > worth of highways with my GPS. I would upload the GPS trace to OSM, > and then manually work my way along the highway checking my trace > versus the OSM way. I would copy the tags from the OSM way to the GPS > based way, I'd
Re: [talk-au] How to tag a non-existent road
Then the yellow must be all the "landuse=residential" then :) As land use can extend past the property boundary, were there is an easment. Strike 3, im out. Since were on the tagging list, the sidewalks & waterworks like sewer lines, or underground cable lines, do we map these too, as the data is also available? Sam On 10/13/09, John Smith wrote: > I made another example: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/images/5/5d/Dcdb-example.png > > It's clearer in this screen shot (using JOSM, JOSM has a black > background so the transparent pixels are black) exactly what runs down > the middle of these voids. > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] How to tag a non-existent road
On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 5:26 PM, John Smith wrote: > 2009/10/14 Sam Vekemans : > > Ok, so my big question is: > > Why are your property boundaries rendered with solid fill? > > Its not indicating land use, and should be rendered as a > > 'dash-dot-dot-dash' line. > > (at least thats how i remember it from drafting class) > > > > So if the property boundaries arnt filled in, then there is room to go > > around and tag areas of 'landuse=residential; or farmland or > > protected_area or industrial or what ever. > > > > Its after the area has been tagged with an appropriate landuse tag, > > that it becomes clear where the roads 'should technically' be, and > > there is also (I think) a tag landuse=civil (to show that the city > > owns it) > > > > Me hopes that makes sence :) > > It makes sense, but you missed the point entirely. > > The property boundary landuse is unknown, between the boundaries there > are voids, these voids seem to exist where there is road ways and > water ways. > eye... i, i ie :0) But of course the landuse us 'unknown' by default. .. so what needs to be done is to go around and find out what the actual landuse is. ... of course there are voids there are voids all over the map of black space. :) When these boundaries are filled in, with 'area=yes' ... then yes there appear to be 'voids' But it's just like a power line running through somewhere you cant automatically say that the land under it is a 'no-go' zone. ... you cant put anything there, until eithor A - you get more data available, or B- it is physically survayed. My point is that you dont need to be drawing in ANY roads your just importing boundaries nothing todo with roads. For examaple... I have polygons that are ready to be imported for landuse=residential. For me, since im aware that roads are being imported, It's silly for me to be importing this landuse=residential polygons... 'cause when you see them (with no roads around) you CAN extrapolate and see that the space between them, is wide enough for a road to be. but it could be a landuse=industrial. So the solution (im doing) is that i make these .osm files available on a server, as the conversion part... and just let these files sit there until someone want them. So for Austrailia... my guess is that YES, the road data will 'most likely' become available in the next year. So why be so concerned about these empty spaces? .. why not just focus the efforts on converting all the other different types of data available, and make those available as .osm files.... and keep the discussion going on 'how to appropriately tag the features that are available' rather than how to tag what is NOT available. and again, If was to go out there and survay an area and i see that there is no road. ... what i DO see is that there is a landuse=something (farmland) (desert) ... or but a fence if there is one. .. or natural=grassland. 'cause there ALWAYS something. .. ditch ... whatever.. Once that area is physically surveyed, it's mapped that i's something. ... and there should be no question. .. from what i see on that sourcedata website, you got LOTS of different datasets available to play with.... i think that the BBQ's have been dealt with, whats next? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data.australia.gov.au/World_Heritage_Areas? cheers, (fun taking in circles) ... good times, im learning too. Sam :-) p.s. You guys will probably be done your import before Canada's done :) lol... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] How to tag a non-existent road
Ok, so my big question is: Why are your property boundaries rendered with solid fill? Its not indicating land use, and should be rendered as a 'dash-dot-dot-dash' line. (at least thats how i remember it from drafting class) So if the property boundaries arnt filled in, then there is room to go around and tag areas of 'landuse=residential; or farmland or protected_area or industrial or what ever. Its after the area has been tagged with an appropriate landuse tag, that it becomes clear where the roads 'should technically' be, and there is also (I think) a tag landuse=civil (to show that the city owns it) Me hopes that makes sence :) cheers, Sam On 10/13/09, John Smith wrote: > Unless anyone has an objection I propose that we tagged non-existent > roads from DCDB Qld as: > > highway=gazetted_road > > Anything that hasn't been surveyed can be tagged as highway=road which > is consistent with current usage, these will also be rendered enough > to indicate they need to be surveyed and hopefully this will encourage > people to participate even if they don't have a GPS. > > I updated the wiki as well to reflect this: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#What_about_using_meta_information_from_the_DCDB_Qld_date.3F > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [Imports] telecon thursday
Ya, i'd recommend maybe for the next teleconference, if the timing could be focused for preference to those who would be the main speakers? -so handling only a few topics, where next time go into detail on Austrailia data, so the main people working on that can be present. :-) (and likewise for others) Sam On 10/6/09, John Smith wrote: > 2009/10/7 Sam Vekemans : >> Thanks. >> Id like to go over my 3 step plan idea. (data conversion, data >> sharing, data copy-over/direct api import) >> >> also, im a newbie for teleconferencing so apologies in advance if i mess >> up. :-) >> >> Also, we need to take notes about the Austrailia import (as the time >> is off) and i can share the differences btwn the different countries >> approaches to 'importing government data'. >> >> Whats the number to call? > > The more important question is when is the best time to call, and that > highly depends on where people are participating from. > > 9am AEST is: > 10am AEDST > 12pm NZ > 7pm US East coast > 4pm US west coast > 12am UK > > etc > > Some Australian states went to daylight savings last weekend, not sure > about other countries so the above times are best guesses > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Why not to change coastlines automatically to ABS data.
Yup, Just because data is available, it doesn't mean it has to be used. This data can be used in conjunction with other data sources. The end result is to make the best map possable, regardless of the source. We arnt employees of ABS, nor TIGER, nor NRCan. So at least IMO, we take it as a bonus. This is why im promoting the 'oneway import' concept. (of the 3 step process) Hope that makes sence, cheers, Sam ps, sorry if im a couple steps ahead, your comments are de-ja-vue for me :) On 10/6/09, Ross Scanlon wrote: >> I would be cautious about preferencing "survey" and satellite/aerial > photography data over ABS. >> >> I have found errors in both of these. Survey data from GPS seems at > times >> to >> have been either traced pooly from gpx tracks or based on innacurate > position data, especially where there are tall objects like buildings and >> hills nearby. Similarly, imagery can be misleading when there is > vegetation, >> like mangroves on the shore, not to mention to low resolution of the > yahoo >> imagery itself. > > You've missed the point here. > > What I'm saying is don't just go and change it from "PGS coastline" to the > ABS boundary data without looking what's there. > > In the example given (Hamilton Island), at the points given, the ABS > boundary data was grossly in error, more than 200m near the restaurants > and approximately 500m near the airport. > > The ABS data more than likely came from aerial photos anyway as there's > never been anyone actually survey (professional surveyor style) the > coastlines in this area. > > I think everyone should have a read of this: > > http://74.125.155.132/u/AustralianBureauOfStatistics?q=cache:ijmG6hPI8egJ:www.abs.gov.au/Websitedbs/D3110122.NSF/4a255eef008309e44a255eef00061e57/8e860540d4a7505cca256bf300055f0d/%24FILE/technical%2520paper.pdf+%22digital+boundary%22+accuracy+2006&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&ie=UTF-8 > > It is the html version of a pdf file from the abs website, as the pdf is > corrupt and won't load (at least on windows). It's from 2001 but I could > not find an equivalent document for 2006. > > The main area of interest is Appendix B and the section on topographic > features, as below in part: > > "A typical use of digital basemap in GIS is to select features which lie > within, intersect, or are adjacent to other features. In most GIS these > spatial relationships are determined by the latitude and longitude of the > objects being analysed. If an object is close to a boundary then the > absolute accuracy of the latitude and longitude becomes important. The > PSMA dataset is digitised from maps at scales of from 1:4,000 to 1:250,000 > and the accuracy of a latitude or longitude can therefore vary from 4 > metres to 250 metres. Cartographic licence and data integration issues can > all further erode the positional accuracy of basemap features." > > So there can be very significant discrepancies in the ABS data in regards > to topographic features. > > Given that the only topo maps for this area are 1:25 then the errors > can be in excess of 200m in the ABS data. > > > Cheers > Ross > > > > > > > > > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [Imports] telecon thursday
Thanks. Id like to go over my 3 step plan idea. (data conversion, data sharing, data copy-over/direct api import) also, im a newbie for teleconferencing so apologies in advance if i mess up. :-) Also, we need to take notes about the Austrailia import (as the time is off) and i can share the differences btwn the different countries approaches to 'importing government data'. Whats the number to call? Cheers, Sam On 10/6/09, Richard Weait wrote: > Any suggestions for the agenda for the imports conference call this > Thursday? > > ___ > Imports mailing list > impo...@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] unexpected consequence of merging admin boundary and road
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 12:29 AM, John Smith wrote: > 2009/10/5 Elizabeth Dodd : > > On Mon, 5 Oct 2009, John Smith wrote: > >> The ABS data isn't very accurate, but it would be accurate enough for > >> the purpose it was intended which is breaking the country up into > >> various geographical areas for statistical purposes. > >> > >> The Qld boundary data seems to be more accurate than GPS in most if > >> not all cases, and it has to be in case of legal disputes arising. > >> > >> So it's not exactly clear cut as to if imported data is better or > >> worst, you need to know what the intended purpose of the data is also. > Yup, thats why i recommend (from my last message to the list) making the data 'available' and letting the mapper decide what features they want to copy in... rather than the person doing the conversion making that decision. ... which is why i don't like 'bulk_importing' data... as i see it as 'blind_importing'. ... so IMO, only local mappers, ie. the most active area mapper, should really be the person who copies in the new data. Cheers, Sam P.S. some points do need to be mentioned on the imports@ mailing list, as this helps improve the overall development of how any import 'should' be conducted. ... as it's ALOT of data, but alot a LOT of burden on those who are importing the data (if mistakes are make) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 6:14 PM, John Smith wrote: > 2009/10/5 Sam Vekemans : > > Just one comment. If it was me working on it, i would hesitate on adding > in > > roads where they are 'estimated' because it is not known as a fact. Once > > all the property boundaries are in there, i think that will cause a > natural > > 'growth' in OSM activity, and people would want to help out ... by going > > along that way with a GPS, and getting some tracks. so not even listing > a > > highway=road, might be the best way to go. IMO > > Actually anyone that knows a road exists but hasn't had a chance to > map it by other means could use the property boundaries to do so, no > GPS needed etc. > > That's true. .. so someone who's kind-of familiar with the area (been down the road at least once in their life? > Also Qld alone makes up 1/4 of the area of Australia, but has > relatively few people (4.2 mill according to wikipedia), most live in > the very south east of the state around Brisbane. > > My point is, the majority of back roads, and even streets in tiny > little out back towns aren't going to be mapped by GPS, at least not > for a decade maybe more. > > Perhaps maybe the suggestion is to hold off on that planning aspect, or rather,not concentrate efforts on it, as the data may become available later? I saw the link of 'streams' pop up, perhaps when all data that is available is imported, then deal with what isn't available :) > > Once a few tracks (even 1 will do) whoever is tracing there own tracks > will > > have a 'guide' to work with already. This way, we will know for sure > that > > roads exist where they do in real-life. > > Those traces just don't exist and most likely won't exist. > > True :) > > It will also give an opportunity for that local area mapper to add in > other > > POI along the way. :-) > > Yes, there is no street names or POIs on property boundary data :) > So a lesson from Alberta is that there have been a few people who spent lots of time traveling the back-roads, collecting road names. or lots of tracing (before data became available) So the only thing that i can recommend is to 'not actively encourage'. but then, how can you not actively encourage mapping? (rhetorical) So thats where we needed to draw the line. The method of 'making data available, so people can copy what they like, is probably better than 1 person importing it all at once. Purpose being to get it done FAST, rather than the passive approach of 'top quality'. Considering that im in Victoria, BC and converting the data. And others who live in or areas would know what data is more accurate that i would. Example Calgary, Alberta So by me making the data available (all the railways/buildings... all canvec data) and all the river data simply 'available'. Then we can have local people volunteering to copy-in the data n that they know is more accurate. Also, they already know what rivers they traced, and (if it was roads) would already know what roads they drew in. So by making it available (rather than even using AutoMatch), the local area mapper who spent the last 2 years tracing and drawing in their roads, will probably be a bit happier with copying in features... rather than someone in Victoria (1/2 a country away) dropping data in, all around them. What i have been doing, is contacting the local area mappers (for the 092, Vancouver island area) and using that as a test-area) Because i am familiar with most of it now. And i found that the local area mappers are focused on the local area :) and that as soon as i started to drop-in data for their area... that spurred more mapping (even them adding in stuff that i was just about to have added in). So (instead) by making ALL the data converted. ... local people can copy in what they like. It (probably) will still be only a few of us who end up copying in the majority, but at least it will be more local people. Then, as new data is available, the data conversion part is done separately, and the data is simply made available for people to copy at their leisure. The method of using 'AutoMatch' is the same, accept instead of comparing the SHP files, we are comparing the new .osm files with the current .osm area, and creating a DIFF file and looking at the matches that it found. It's just making the import as a 3 separate step process rather than trying todo it all at once. 1 - Data conversion 2 - Data sharing 3 - Data importing So when updates are available, it is just converting it to .osm format so then after step 3, we have 4 - Data AutoMatch (merging 'missing' map features) (with OpenJUMP in a PostGIS database) Then stuff like fixing the 'sourc
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Cool, Just one comment. If it was me working on it, i would hesitate on adding in roads where they are 'estimated' because it is not known as a fact. Once all the property boundaries are in there, i think that will cause a natural 'growth' in OSM activity, and people would want to help out ... by going along that way with a GPS, and getting some tracks. so not even listing a highway=road, might be the best way to go. IMO Once a few tracks (even 1 will do) whoever is tracing there own tracks will have a 'guide' to work with already. This way, we will know for sure that roads exist where they do in real-life. It will also give an opportunity for that local area mapper to add in other POI along the way. :-) Another note, is bigtincan hosting a planet-dump and diff/load for your slippy map? ... and what do you think of my way of conducting the import (just making the .osm files available (hosting them on mediafire.com), and letting local are mappers drop-in the data at their leisure? and organizing it all with a Googledocs chart? (itching for feedback here) http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Am70fsptsPF2dG1ZN1YwMmZCVDhDOHZpbUNmOGlvWGc&hl=en .. and BTW, bigtincan is awesome :-) Is BTC mapper going to add Garmin Maps to that list? Cheers, Sam Vekemans Across Canada Trails P.S. Yup, i knew that the government would open up, it was just a matter of time. :-) ... i guess the rest of the common wealth countries might be next. Only, if the Queen says so. ;) http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/en/licence.jsp (Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Canada (Canada) as represented by the Minister of Natural Resources Canada.) Twitter: @Acrosscanada Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 9:56 AM, John Smith wrote: > Using the property boundary WMS tiles I managed to redo a largish > chunk of the Condamine river near Chinchilla, the property boundary > data isn't 100% perfect for this purpose but it is certainly much > better than the low res sat imagery. > > http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=12&ll=-26.824,150.662&layer=BTT > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Hi All,
Just to let you all know, i signed up with your mailing list, and am happy
to help you all out. :-)
FYI I'm working with shp-to-osm.jar (java program) that ian dees made, and
am not using shp2osm (python) that others made ('cause i dont speak python
nor ibuntu language).
So I can be of assistance, and share what ive learned about the Canada
(CanVec data) and GeoBase data Import, and the crazy mess of data that we
have available up here.
Sometimes i'll cc the imports@ list, 'cause others might want to know too :)
about methods... as the problems/solutions are international.
Cheers,
Sam Vekemans
Across Canada Trails
Twitter: @Acrosscanada
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans
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