Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

G'day all

I'm going to say, after quite a bit of effort by a number of people, that
that project is pretty well done & dusted! :-)

338 notes still open as I speak, but virtually all of them have either had
questions asked to get further info, need on-the-ground checking, are brand
new, or need further action by the OP.

>From ~4500 on 26/1 to 340 today?

Got to say that I for one am pretty happy & satisfied with that, so thanks
everybody for all your hard work! :-)

Thanks

Graeme


On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 at 10:40, Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

> I'm not referring to any specific note here, but probably the most common
> use of the Notes feature is when something needs confirmation on the
> ground, so resolving it without actually going there on the ground to check
> goes against what it was opened for, and generally I think should be left
> open until it's checked on the ground.
>
> Other notes may be able to be resolved remotely which you and Andrew
> Davidson have made excellent progress with.
>
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 at 11:24, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>> Is it just me, or is anybody else getting a bit annoyed with the efforts
>> of one person in continually reactivating Notes, often for trivial,
>> non-sensible reasons?
>>
>> Have a look at the first 15 or so on the list here for comments, plus a
>> few that have been re-resolved.
>>
>> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Australia
>>
>> The same person was mentioned earlier in the month or re-opening Notes
>> that in one case refer to something that may happen in a few years time, &
>> another referring to arguments between Council, a property developer &
>> local residents:
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2022-March/015908.html
>>
>> In both these cases, I've tried to explain to them that it's not an OSM
>> problem, but they've reactivated them again anyway :-(
>>
>> So which is it, am I closing things that should stay open, or is this
>> person being a pain?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Andrew Harvey]

I'm not referring to any specific note here, but probably the most common
use of the Notes feature is when something needs confirmation on the
ground, so resolving it without actually going there on the ground to check
goes against what it was opened for, and generally I think should be left
open until it's checked on the ground.

Other notes may be able to be resolved remotely which you and Andrew
Davidson have made excellent progress with.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 at 11:24, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Is it just me, or is anybody else getting a bit annoyed with the efforts
> of one person in continually reactivating Notes, often for trivial,
> non-sensible reasons?
>
> Have a look at the first 15 or so on the list here for comments, plus a
> few that have been re-resolved.
>
> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Australia
>
> The same person was mentioned earlier in the month or re-opening Notes
> that in one case refer to something that may happen in a few years time, &
> another referring to arguments between Council, a property developer &
> local residents:
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2022-March/015908.html
>
> In both these cases, I've tried to explain to them that it's not an OSM
> problem, but they've reactivated them again anyway :-(
>
> So which is it, am I closing things that should stay open, or is this
> person being a pain?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Oh, btw, 773! :-)

Thanks

Graeme


On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 at 10:19, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Is it just me, or is anybody else getting a bit annoyed with the efforts
> of one person in continually reactivating Notes, often for trivial,
> non-sensible reasons?
>
> Have a look at the first 15 or so on the list here for comments, plus a
> few that have been re-resolved.
>
> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Australia
>
> The same person was mentioned earlier in the month or re-opening Notes
> that in one case refer to something that may happen in a few years time, &
> another referring to arguments between Council, a property developer &
> local residents:
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2022-March/015908.html
>
> In both these cases, I've tried to explain to them that it's not an OSM
> problem, but they've reactivated them again anyway :-(
>
> So which is it, am I closing things that should stay open, or is this
> person being a pain?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Is it just me, or is anybody else getting a bit annoyed with the efforts of
one person in continually reactivating Notes, often for trivial,
non-sensible reasons?

Have a look at the first 15 or so on the list here for comments, plus a few
that have been re-resolved.

https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Australia

The same person was mentioned earlier in the month or re-opening Notes that
in one case refer to something that may happen in a few years time, &
another referring to arguments between Council, a property developer &
local residents:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2022-March/015908.html

In both these cases, I've tried to explain to them that it's not an OSM
problem, but they've reactivated them again anyway :-(

So which is it, am I closing things that should stay open, or is this
person being a pain?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

999!!!

Thanks

Graeme


On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 at 18:49, stevea  wrote:

> On Mar 7, 2022, at 12:41 AM, David Wales  wrote:
> > ...I took the opportunity to belatedly add this.
>
> It’s like a good story with a wonderful happy ending.
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[stevea]

On Mar 7, 2022, at 12:41 AM, David Wales  wrote:
> ...I took the opportunity to belatedly add this.

It’s like a good story with a wonderful happy ending.
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[David Wales via Talk-au]

I'm guilty of leaving some abandoned notes! I got the notifications when they 
were cleaned up recently.

I mostly left the notes because I was using StreetComplete, and wanted to 
capture data that StreetComplete couldn't capture. I intended to come back and 
resolve the notes, but clearly forgot!

However, I did double check some of the recently closed notes, and at least one 
had been closed without incorporating the information (postbox collection time) 
into the map. I took the opportunity to belatedly add this.

Regards,
David Wales

On 7 March 2022 10:31:08 am AEDT, stevea  wrote:
>On Mar 2, 2022, at 1:18 AM, Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:
>> Have they simply forgotten that they posted them, so a reminder would og 
>> their memory; or as suggested, do they want somebody else to do the actual 
>> mapping work for them?
>
>Let's not forget that a Note is often added by a "lesser experienced" mapper 
>(or maybe not even a mapper at all, I think there might be methods for 
>non-Contributors to add a Note, like through certain apps...please correct me 
>if I'm wrong).  They add a Note because it is "better than leaving a noticed 
>error," but they can't (or won't) fix it themselves.  So, YES, they DO want 
>somebody else to do the actual mapping work for them.  There is nothing wrong 
>with this, it is part of why Notes exist, so let's incorporate that knowledge 
>into why somebody posted a Note in the first place:  it isn't so we can 
>grumble at their "laziness," it is to "request an assist" by a mapper who 
>comes along later and says "yup, there's a problem here, I know how to fix it, 
>and they whack away the error into mapping data bliss."  (Right there, for 
>that issue).  And, "another one (Note) bites the dust."
>
>As we Resolve a Note, it's a full round-trip on what is supposed to happen 
>with them.  Even one at a time this is true, but especially when you get 
>national-scope efforts to fix these (thousands at a time), the quality of our 
>map data just goes up, up, up.  I smile at the thought of it:  such feedback 
>loops are wonderful.
>
>Congrats on the Weekly Newsletter horn-toot!
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[stevea]

On Mar 2, 2022, at 1:18 AM, Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:
> Have they simply forgotten that they posted them, so a reminder would og 
> their memory; or as suggested, do they want somebody else to do the actual 
> mapping work for them?

Let's not forget that a Note is often added by a "lesser experienced" mapper 
(or maybe not even a mapper at all, I think there might be methods for 
non-Contributors to add a Note, like through certain apps...please correct me 
if I'm wrong).  They add a Note because it is "better than leaving a noticed 
error," but they can't (or won't) fix it themselves.  So, YES, they DO want 
somebody else to do the actual mapping work for them.  There is nothing wrong 
with this, it is part of why Notes exist, so let's incorporate that knowledge 
into why somebody posted a Note in the first place:  it isn't so we can grumble 
at their "laziness," it is to "request an assist" by a mapper who comes along 
later and says "yup, there's a problem here, I know how to fix it, and they 
whack away the error into mapping data bliss."  (Right there, for that issue).  
And, "another one (Note) bites the dust."

As we Resolve a Note, it's a full round-trip on what is supposed to happen with 
them.  Even one at a time this is true, but especially when you get 
national-scope efforts to fix these (thousands at a time), the quality of our 
map data just goes up, up, up.  I smile at the thought of it:  such feedback 
loops are wonderful.

Congrats on the Weekly Newsletter horn-toot!
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

& we made the Weekly Newsletter! :-)

" Fizzie41 reported
 on how the
Australian mapper community has made
 progress on
resolving open OpenStreetMap notes."

Oh, btw, 1092! :-)

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 19:18, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 18:25, Ewen Hill  wrote:
>
>>A lot of these notes are anonymous and therefore reminders will go
>> into the ether. A significant proportion more are businesses via a third
>> party app or two, once again, the chances of a response is slim which
>> leaves travellers who flag places via OSMAND who wont be able to assist and
>> those planning to update an area.
>>
>
> Agree entirely, but as mentioned earlier, out of ~3000 cleared so far
> there are would easily be 1000+ that have been posted by experienced,
> active mappers.
>
> Have they simply forgotten that they posted them, so a reminder would og
> their memory; or as suggested, do they want somebody else to do the actual
> mapping work for them?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 18:25, Ewen Hill  wrote:

>A lot of these notes are anonymous and therefore reminders will go into
> the ether. A significant proportion more are businesses via a third party
> app or two, once again, the chances of a response is slim which leaves
> travellers who flag places via OSMAND who wont be able to assist and those
> planning to update an area.
>

Agree entirely, but as mentioned earlier, out of ~3000 cleared so far there
are would easily be 1000+ that have been posted by experienced, active
mappers.

Have they simply forgotten that they posted them, so a reminder would og
their memory; or as suggested, do they want somebody else to do the actual
mapping work for them?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Andrew Harvey]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 17:16, Andrew Davidson  wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 1:46 PM Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
> > For example,
>
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2684418 a street library won't be
> visible on aerial imagery, you either need to confirm on the ground or use
> street level imagery. If it's unable to be verified remotely best to leave
> it open for someone on the ground to verify it.
>
> I'm not exactly sure why this particular mapper works this way. So far
> this year we have closed 503 of their notes. About 300 of them
> resulted in some sort of edit to the map and another ~120 of them had
> already been mapped. The other 80 are a mixture of out of date
> information, comments about things that were no longer on the map,
> wanting to add things that are temporary, information that was wrong,
> and things that could not be confirmed. Overall we have managed to
> deal successfully with 85% of their material.
>
> Now as you have pointed out this is an active mapper and given the
> nature of the notes they have created they are in effect outsourcing
> their mapping to others. So far this year they will have received 500+
> emails from the OSM system which means they will be well aware that
> people have been processing their notes. If they think that some of
> their notes have been incorrectly handled they are welcome to do their
> own mapping or at least reactivate them.
>
> I have also encountered at least another two mappers who seem to have
> adopted the same method of operations, opening many notes but not
> actually dealing with them.
>

I get it, they add a lot of notes, but from what I've seen mostly they are
helpful. If someone wants to add notes with the lane count and turn lanes
of every intersection but not actually follow through and edit, that's
fine. We should be encouraging, not discouraging it. They probably just
want to help OSM but might feel too overwhelmed to edit or maybe only have
the time to add the note and not edit the map.


>
> >
> > Though I realise it's not always easy and at some point it makes sense
> to close the note as unactionable.
>
> This is where the problem lies. The map note system is a terrible
> issues management system. All we have to play with for filtering and
> managing these is location and a binary status (open/closed). So the
> more notes hanging around the harder it is to manage them. You only
> need to look at the note stats for Germany or the USA to see what
> happens once they start to build up.


Sure it would be nice to add tags to issues to say, "needs survey", some
people are using hashtags like #surveyme for this.


> So it comes down to the question
> of what is the point of keeping:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2440403
>
> or
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2079710
>
> open? They are just noise that is hiding the signal. If we had some
> system of managing them then you could leave them all open, but at
> present there isn't even an easy way of finding your own notes that
> are still open.
>

Sure some are worth closing if they are indecipherable or not something
that can be mapped, I'm just trying to point out that while it's
commendable that people are trying to close notes (really this is great),
our goal should not be to close all notes from the armchair and it's okay
to leave those open that need further ground truthing.


> >
> > StreetComplete asks about open notes.
>
> Based on the default settings it only asks about notes that are posed
> as questions.
>

Correct, and some people change their settings to see all notes. I think
OSMAnd has an option to show notes and probably other apps too.
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Ewen Hill]

Hi Graeme,
   A lot of these notes are anonymous and therefore reminders will go into
the ether. A significant proportion more are businesses via a third party
app or two, once again, the chances of a response is slim which leaves
travellers who flag places via OSMAND who wont be able to assist and those
planning to update an area. The legendary Pakenhamin, who was a courier,
used OSMAND to flag thousands of notes, all valid change requests whilst he
was travelling and the QA of the map was worth updating the notes so I
don't see a six month reminder assisting in all but a small proportion.

   I would like to see a colour change or starred note for a note < 30 days
old so that you can easily identify new comments. I would also like to see
the notes appear in the ID edit mode by default to prompt people editing

Ewen

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 19:04, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 16:16, Andrew Davidson  wrote:
>
>> an active mapper
>
>
> I've actually just raised a suggestion in Github that the system may be
> able to be modified to send reminders that your notes are still active "6"
> months after you raised them:
>
>
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/3477#issuecomment-1053954755
>
> Unfortunately, the powers that be don't seem very interested in the
> proposal.
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
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-- 
Warm Regards

Ewen Hill
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Stéphane Guillou via Talk-au]

I agree that the situation is not ideal. I'd love to see the system be 
improved with something like the "stale" or "need info" features of bug 
reporting systems, which could close a note automatically if it is in a 
state of "need info" for 6 months without an answer.


Cheers

On 2/3/22 18:09, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:


On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 15:09, Stéphane Guillou via Talk-au 
 wrote:


I agree one should be cautious with closing notes


But where do we draw the line?

 When you look at the oldest remaining notes, there are a couple there 
from 6 years ago, that were raised by an experienced, fairly active 
mapper.


Somebody else asked a question 5 months ago, after more info, but no 
response, despite the OP's last edit being 4 months ago, so they're 
apparently still around & active?


Just about everything earlier than 2019 (~30) has had questions asked, 
but again, how long do we leave it before deciding, Nup, nobody is 
going to answer, so just close it?


Thanks

Graeme


--
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 15:09, Stéphane Guillou via Talk-au <
talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> I agree one should be cautious with closing notes
>

But where do we draw the line?

 When you look at the oldest remaining notes, there are a couple there from
6 years ago, that were raised by an experienced, fairly active mapper.

Somebody else asked a question 5 months ago, after more info, but no
response, despite the OP's last edit being 4 months ago, so they're
apparently still around & active?

Just about everything earlier than 2019 (~30) has had questions asked, but
again, how long do we leave it before deciding, Nup, nobody is going to
answer, so just close it?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 16:16, Andrew Davidson  wrote:

> an active mapper


I've actually just raised a suggestion in Github that the system may be
able to be modified to send reminders that your notes are still active "6"
months after you raised them:

https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/3477#issuecomment-1053954755

Unfortunately, the powers that be don't seem very interested in the
proposal.

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 16:16, Andrew Davidson  wrote:

> So it comes down to the question of what is the point of keeping:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2440403
>
> or
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2079710
>
> open?


Thanks for mentioning those couple, Andrew, as I seem to be in a sort of
duel with this person.

 I've resolved & closed a number of notes, which they have then reopened
with not really valid comments. I've explained that we only map what is on
the ground* now*, closed them again & they've re-opened them again because
"these changes will be happening some time" :-(

I even saw a comment from I think this person referring to using Google
Street View to confirm what was going on somewhere! I pointed out that we
never use Google maps or imagery for anything & nothing further happened on
the particular note.

Maybe somebody official needs to explain to them just how things work?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Andrew Davidson]

On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 4:09 PM Stéphane Guillou via Talk-au
 wrote:
>
>> Nevertheless, I want to say that I really appreciate the time that was 
>> invested in the recent note-closing work. It's great to see so many small 
>> improvements happening all around the map, and the activity on the notes 
>> themselves might bring new contributors in, or even just motivate them to 
>> open new notes.

There have been some gems in there but it is like mining for diamonds
you've got to sort through a lot of ore to find them. Particularly
interesting has been WA where entire mine sites or other industry has
just appeared (and you can switch back and forward between image
supplies and see before and after).

The listings from onosm.org have been a little sad as a not small
fraction of them are for businesses that have gone bust in the time
between posting and getting around to mapping them. So many of them
are annoying because you quickly realise that when you go and try to
verify their street addresses you know they're not going to tell you.

I also am a bit ambivalent about adding businesses because you realise
after a while that for every add note there is a note about a business
that has gone. I've been trying to add a website or social media link
to each one I add so that at least there is the hope that when they go
out of business their links will go dead and get flagged by KeepRight.

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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Stéphane Guillou via Talk-au]

Hi all

I agree one should be cautious with closing notes with a changeset that 
only relies on aerial imagery, in particular when the note specifically 
mentions that a survey is necessary (e.g. "ground-truthing required").


Recently, a keen fellow local mapper started resolving notes one by one 
in my local area by actually traveling to the location (by bike I 
believe). That resulted in high-quality, up-to-date data, and wouldn't 
have happened without those open notes.


Nevertheless, I want to say that I really appreciate the time that was 
invested in the recent note-closing work. It's great to see so many 
small improvements happening all around the map, and the activity on the 
notes themselves might bring new contributors in, or even just motivate 
them to open new notes.


Cheers

On 2/3/22 12:42, Andrew Harvey wrote:

For example,

https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2381617, tracks in the bush 
often aren't visible from imagery, so it needs a ground survey to add 
them.


https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2684418 a street library won't be 
visible on aerial imagery, you either need to confirm on the ground or 
use street level imagery. If it's unable to be verified remotely best 
to leave it open for someone on the ground to verify it.


Though I realise it's not always easy and at some point it makes sense 
to close the note as unactionable.


StreetComplete asks about open notes.

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 12:01, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
 wrote:


Thanks, Andrew, & not disagreeing!

But when there's a Note still there from ~4 years ago that says
"Path", & when we look, there's a path already mapped 20m away
from that note tag, do we assume that that is the path in question
so close the note as resolved, or hope that somebody will get
there sometime to check it out, although nobody has apparently yet
looked at it in the last 4 years?

& it gets worse in remote areas. Which mapper is going to trek 10k
in from the nearest road (or for some of them out West, 100+k!) to
confirm that there is a track (that doesn't appear on any imagery
or Govt sources) running from here to there?

At least partially, some of the problem is that Notes are
invisible unless deliberately activated. Any of us could have 100
of them within 5k of our home, which could be easily checked, but
not know about them, so never check & resolve them.

& then, over these last several days, I'm seeing a few notes being
reactivated (often by people with user names but 0 edits) but with
no comment as to why they've reactivated them? I wonder if some
people think that they have to have a note on the map to show that
"this is here"?

Thanks

Graeme


On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 at 19:08, Andrew Harvey
 wrote:

While there has been a lot of good work going on with these
notes, I would like to point out that many are there because
they need a ground survey to check. So the goal should not be
to get open notes to zero only from airchair mapping. If it's
not something that's actionable without a survey then best
leave it open as many apps ask users on the ground to
comment on open notes and some mappers look at them for their
local area.

There was some concern raised about this on the Oceania
discord channel and I've noticed myself, so wanted to raise it
here.

On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 at 15:46, Graeme Fitzpatrick
 wrote:




On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 10:34, Graeme Fitzpatrick
 wrote:


As I write this, there are now 3543


Sorry if I'm boring any of you? :-), but thought I'd
update this to mention that after another 11 days, we are
now at 2460!

& please check out the graph :-) - I'm waiting eagerly for
the cross-over that has to be due any day now! :-)

https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Australia

The oldest Notes have also jumped from 2013 to ~30
still outstanding from 2017,


Now at two tricky ones from 2018, + 24 others prior to
2019, all with questions asked on them.

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Andrew Harvey]

For example,

https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2381617, tracks in the bush often aren't
visible from imagery, so it needs a ground survey to add them.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2684418 a street library won't be
visible on aerial imagery, you either need to confirm on the ground or use
street level imagery. If it's unable to be verified remotely best to leave
it open for someone on the ground to verify it.

Though I realise it's not always easy and at some point it makes sense to
close the note as unactionable.

StreetComplete asks about open notes.

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 12:01, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Thanks, Andrew, & not disagreeing!
>
> But when there's a Note still there from ~4 years ago that says "Path", &
> when we look, there's a path already mapped 20m away from that note tag, do
> we assume that that is the path in question so close the note as resolved,
> or hope that somebody will get there sometime to check it out, although
> nobody has apparently yet looked at it in the last 4 years?
>
> & it gets worse in remote areas. Which mapper is going to trek 10k in from
> the nearest road (or for some of them out West, 100+k!) to confirm that
> there is a track (that doesn't appear on any imagery or Govt sources)
> running from here to there?
>
> At least partially, some of the problem is that Notes are invisible unless
> deliberately activated. Any of us could have 100 of them within 5k of our
> home, which could be easily checked, but not know about them, so never
> check & resolve them.
>
> & then, over these last several days, I'm seeing a few notes being
> reactivated (often by people with user names but 0 edits) but with no
> comment as to why they've reactivated them? I wonder if some people think
> that they have to have a note on the map to show that "this is here"?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 at 19:08, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
>> While there has been a lot of good work going on with these notes, I
>> would like to point out that many are there because they need a ground
>> survey to check. So the goal should not be to get open notes to zero only
>> from airchair mapping. If it's not something that's actionable without a
>> survey then best leave it open as many apps ask users on the ground to
>> comment on open notes and some mappers look at them for their local area.
>>
>> There was some concern raised about this on the Oceania discord channel
>> and I've noticed myself, so wanted to raise it here.
>>
>> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 at 15:46, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 10:34, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 As I write this, there are now 3543

>>>
>>> Sorry if I'm boring any of you? :-), but thought I'd update this to
>>> mention that after another 11 days, we are now at 2460!
>>>
>>> & please check out the graph :-) - I'm waiting eagerly for the
>>> cross-over that has to be due any day now! :-)
>>>
>>> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Australia
>>>
>>> The oldest Notes have also jumped from 2013 to ~30 still outstanding
 from 2017,

>>>
>>> Now at two tricky ones from 2018, + 24 others prior to 2019, all with
>>> questions asked on them.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Graeme
>>>
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>>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Thanks, Andrew, & not disagreeing!

But when there's a Note still there from ~4 years ago that says "Path", &
when we look, there's a path already mapped 20m away from that note tag, do
we assume that that is the path in question so close the note as resolved,
or hope that somebody will get there sometime to check it out, although
nobody has apparently yet looked at it in the last 4 years?

& it gets worse in remote areas. Which mapper is going to trek 10k in from
the nearest road (or for some of them out West, 100+k!) to confirm that
there is a track (that doesn't appear on any imagery or Govt sources)
running from here to there?

At least partially, some of the problem is that Notes are invisible unless
deliberately activated. Any of us could have 100 of them within 5k of our
home, which could be easily checked, but not know about them, so never
check & resolve them.

& then, over these last several days, I'm seeing a few notes being
reactivated (often by people with user names but 0 edits) but with no
comment as to why they've reactivated them? I wonder if some people think
that they have to have a note on the map to show that "this is here"?

Thanks

Graeme


On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 at 19:08, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

> While there has been a lot of good work going on with these notes, I would
> like to point out that many are there because they need a ground survey to
> check. So the goal should not be to get open notes to zero only from
> airchair mapping. If it's not something that's actionable without a survey
> then best leave it open as many apps ask users on the ground to comment on
> open notes and some mappers look at them for their local area.
>
> There was some concern raised about this on the Oceania discord channel
> and I've noticed myself, so wanted to raise it here.
>
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 at 15:46, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 10:34, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> As I write this, there are now 3543
>>>
>>
>> Sorry if I'm boring any of you? :-), but thought I'd update this to
>> mention that after another 11 days, we are now at 2460!
>>
>> & please check out the graph :-) - I'm waiting eagerly for the cross-over
>> that has to be due any day now! :-)
>>
>> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Australia
>>
>> The oldest Notes have also jumped from 2013 to ~30 still outstanding from
>>> 2017,
>>>
>>
>> Now at two tricky ones from 2018, + 24 others prior to 2019, all with
>> questions asked on them.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>> ___
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>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
>
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Andrew Harvey]

While there has been a lot of good work going on with these notes, I would
like to point out that many are there because they need a ground survey to
check. So the goal should not be to get open notes to zero only from
airchair mapping. If it's not something that's actionable without a survey
then best leave it open as many apps ask users on the ground to comment on
open notes and some mappers look at them for their local area.

There was some concern raised about this on the Oceania discord channel and
I've noticed myself, so wanted to raise it here.

On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 at 15:46, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 10:34, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> As I write this, there are now 3543
>>
>
> Sorry if I'm boring any of you? :-), but thought I'd update this to
> mention that after another 11 days, we are now at 2460!
>
> & please check out the graph :-) - I'm waiting eagerly for the cross-over
> that has to be due any day now! :-)
>
> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Australia
>
> The oldest Notes have also jumped from 2013 to ~30 still outstanding from
>> 2017,
>>
>
> Now at two tricky ones from 2018, + 24 others prior to 2019, all with
> questions asked on them.
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[stevea]

Not boring at all; mighty impressive knock-down, actually.  Go Team Oz!

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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 10:34, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
> As I write this, there are now 3543
>

Sorry if I'm boring any of you? :-), but thought I'd update this to mention
that after another 11 days, we are now at 2460!

& please check out the graph :-) - I'm waiting eagerly for the cross-over
that has to be due any day now! :-)

https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Australia

The oldest Notes have also jumped from 2013 to ~30 still outstanding from
> 2017,
>

Now at two tricky ones from 2018, + 24 others prior to 2019, all with
questions asked on them.

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 at 13:48, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Changing subject from tracks for a minute :-), I was reading the weekly
> Newsletter yesterday & spotted this article
> https://www-openstreetmap-org.translate.goog/user/AngocA/diary/398423?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=EN&_x_tr_hl=en-GB,
> concerning clearing up all the outstanding OSM Notes in Colombia.
>
> According to Pascal, there are currently ~4500 open Notes across Australia
>

So, I posted that 2 weeks ago yesterday arvo, & there were ~4500 open OSM
Notes.

As I write this, there are now 3543!, which I think we'll all agree is a
pretty mighty effort in 2 weeks!!! :-)

Thanks everybody for your efforts! :-)

The oldest Notes have also jumped from 2013 to ~30 still outstanding from
2017, but most of them are awaiting further feedback (or going to be
deleted as unsolvable?).

So, if anybody else wants to join in, please have a look at
https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country-custom?c=Australia=open,
& start editing & resolving! :-)

Thanks

Graeme

>
> Looking at open notes only:
>
> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country-custom?c=Australia=open
> they go all the way back to 2013! Just glancing at them though, most of
> them could probably just be closed, as the "problem" is already mapped,
> there's not enough detail / info to resolve it & so on?
>
> So, what do we all think?
>
> As I said, I've cleared almost all of the GC, except for a few that need
> further work / survey. How would we like to do things - work on our own
> local areas / go through the list from old > new or vice versa / pick
> random items?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Thanks fellas!

I understand if it's very low on the priority list! :-)

One other aspect of it to think about though ...

Looking at the list of Notes, there are a number of entries going back
several years, where people have provided details to "Please list my
business", but they haven't yet been mapped :-(

Yep, well & truly aware that this is coming from a third party source, but
we're always saying we want more people out there interacting with, &
suggesting, OSM.

If we haven't listed that business 5-6 years after they asked us to, are
they likely to be using or recommending OSM?

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 at 20:17, Phil Wyatt  wrote:

> Thanks Graeme,
>
>
>
> I will have a crack at a few in Southern Tasmania (which has nearly 1900
> of them!). I am hoping ‘Multi Pass’ and his import account of ‘Round
> Circle’ is intending to come back and fix  a few of his!
>
>
>
> Cheers - Phil
>
>
>
> *From:* Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 January 2022 2:48 PM
> *To:* OSM-Au 
> *Subject:* [talk-au] OSM Notes
>
>
>
> Changing subject from tracks for a minute :-), I was reading the weekly
> Newsletter yesterday & spotted this article
> https://www-openstreetmap-org.translate.goog/user/AngocA/diary/398423?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=EN&_x_tr_hl=en-GB,
> concerning clearing up all the outstanding OSM Notes in Colombia.
>
>
>
> Strangely enough, I've been working on clearing them around the GC over
> the last several days, & thought, good on 'em, why don't we do the same?
>
>
>
> According to Pascal, there are currently ~4500 open Notes across
> Australia, but the creation of new ones seems to be smashing the pace at
> which they're resolved:
>
> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Australia
>
>
>
> Looking at open notes only:
>
>
> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country-custom?c=Australia=open
>
> they go all the way back to 2013! Just glancing at them though, most of
> them could probably just be closed, as the "problem" is already mapped,
> there's not enough detail / info to resolve it & so on?
>
>
>
> So, what do we all think?
>
>
>
> As I said, I've cleared almost all of the GC, except for a few that need
> further work / survey. How would we like to do things - work on our own
> local areas / go through the list from old > new or vice versa / pick
> random items?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Graeme
>
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Phil Wyatt]

Thanks Graeme,

 

I will have a crack at a few in Southern Tasmania (which has nearly 1900 of 
them!). I am hoping ‘Multi Pass’ and his import account of ‘Round Circle’ is 
intending to come back and fix  a few of his!

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Graeme Fitzpatrick  
Sent: Wednesday, 26 January 2022 2:48 PM
To: OSM-Au 
Subject: [talk-au] OSM Notes

 

Changing subject from tracks for a minute :-), I was reading the weekly 
Newsletter yesterday & spotted this article 
https://www-openstreetmap-org.translate.goog/user/AngocA/diary/398423?_x_tr_sl=auto
 
<https://www-openstreetmap-org.translate.goog/user/AngocA/diary/398423?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=EN&_x_tr_hl=en-GB>
 &_x_tr_tl=EN&_x_tr_hl=en-GB, concerning clearing up all the outstanding OSM 
Notes in Colombia.

 

Strangely enough, I've been working on clearing them around the GC over the 
last several days, & thought, good on 'em, why don't we do the same?

 

According to Pascal, there are currently ~4500 open Notes across Australia, but 
the creation of new ones seems to be smashing the pace at which they're 
resolved:

https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Australia

 

Looking at open notes only:

https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country-custom?c=Australia 
<https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country-custom?c=Australia=open>
 =open

they go all the way back to 2013! Just glancing at them though, most of them 
could probably just be closed, as the "problem" is already mapped, there's not 
enough detail / info to resolve it & so on?

 

So, what do we all think? 

 

As I said, I've cleared almost all of the GC, except for a few that need 
further work / survey. How would we like to do things - work on our own local 
areas / go through the list from old > new or vice versa / pick random items?

 

Thanks

 

Graeme

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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[Warin]

On 26/1/22 14:48, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
Changing subject from tracks for a minute :-), I was reading the 
weekly Newsletter yesterday & spotted this article 
https://www-openstreetmap-org.translate.goog/user/AngocA/diary/398423?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=EN&_x_tr_hl=en-GB 
, 
concerning clearing up all the outstanding OSM Notes in Colombia.


Strangely enough, I've been working on clearing them around the GC 
over the last several days, & thought, good on 'em, why don't we do 
the same?


According to Pascal, there are currently ~4500 open Notes across 
Australia, but the creation of new ones seems to be smashing the pace 
at which they're resolved:

https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Australia

Looking at open notes only:
https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country-custom?c=Australia=open 

they go all the way back to 2013! Just glancing at them though, most 
of them could probably just be closed, as the "problem" is already 
mapped, there's not enough detail / info to resolve it & so on?


So, what do we all think?

As I said, I've cleared almost all of the GC, except for a few that 
need further work / survey. How would we like to do things - work on 
our own local areas / go through the list from old > new or vice versa 
/ pick random items?



I have a few OSM projects ... not likely to add another one :)


At the moment I am detailing hospitals in NSW, add missing ones when I 
find them .. Using the DCS Base map and Imagery as my source, but going 
through a list from NSW Health (yes copy write, but I use it as a prompt 
to find them on the DCS base map). I probably have a few more days on 
this. Then I'll pick up the next 'most useful thing' to map.



I also 'patrol' the OSM Inspector QA too for areas, Australia wide, and 
routes, Sydney centric but includes India Pacific etc. I either fix 
these or contact the mapper or sometimes both, depends on the mapper and 
frequency of error.


I do occasionally use 'Keep right' QA tool too .. but only locally .. 
too many problems to remove them all even locally.



Good luck to those that chose to help. The UK has far more mappers per 
unit area then we do so there are more hands to do things, so don't be 
too disheartened by any comparison, we do very well considering the 
number of mappers and the total area. .





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[talk-au] OSM Notes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Changing subject from tracks for a minute :-), I was reading the weekly
Newsletter yesterday & spotted this article
https://www-openstreetmap-org.translate.goog/user/AngocA/diary/398423?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=EN&_x_tr_hl=en-GB,
concerning clearing up all the outstanding OSM Notes in Colombia.

Strangely enough, I've been working on clearing them around the GC over the
last several days, & thought, good on 'em, why don't we do the same?

According to Pascal, there are currently ~4500 open Notes across Australia,
but the creation of new ones seems to be smashing the pace at which they're
resolved:
https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Australia

Looking at open notes only:
https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country-custom?c=Australia=open
they go all the way back to 2013! Just glancing at them though, most of
them could probably just be closed, as the "problem" is already mapped,
there's not enough detail / info to resolve it & so on?

So, what do we all think?

As I said, I've cleared almost all of the GC, except for a few that need
further work / survey. How would we like to do things - work on our own
local areas / go through the list from old > new or vice versa / pick
random items?

Thanks

Graeme
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