Re: [OSM-talk] HTTPS all the Things (Automated Edit)

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Rory,

Sure, so my point is: If someone wants to encourage https adoption in the
wider world, the OSM database is not the place to do it. Security
mechanisms exist for website operators to implement if they so desire, and
they may need help making the most appropriate decisions.

Cheers, Joseph

On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 14:30, Rory McCann  wrote:

> On 26/02/2019 14:45, Joseph Reeves wrote:
> > As an aside, HSTS is interesting here because the website operator is
> > saying "only use this domain over https", but at that point, we don't
> > need to make changes to the database because the web client should be
> > aware of the HSTS preload list; the protocol listed in the referrer
> > is not relevant.
>
> I don't think we can rely totally on HSTS. I'm sure not all sites are on
> HSTS preload lists. I think OSM has more "website=http://*; tags (965k)¹
> than Firefox² & Chrome³ have in their HSTS preload lists...
>
> [1] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/website#values
>
> [2]
>
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Strict-Transport-Security#Preloading_Strict_Transport_Security
>
> https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/raw-file/tip/security/manager/ssl/nsSTSPreloadList.inc
>
> [3]
> https://www.chromium.org/hsts
>
> https://cs.chromium.org/codesearch/f/chromium/src/net/http/transport_security_state_static.json?cl=5b2537d89ea5994d27bba5735961b0be1095c54c
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] HTTPS all the Things (Automated Edit)

[Joseph Reeves]

This certificate question from Andy is a good one, and is the final reason
I'm emailing to say I would vote against this proposed edit:

   1. I can't see the security risk you're trying to protect against. We
   are looking at applications that use OSM data and will refer users to third
   party websites; what is the risk of a malicious user MiTM'ing a http
   request to a restaurant website (for example) and sending me to location
   other than the https version of the site? What web clients are you
   expecting this applies to?
   2. I can see in the comments of your diary entry that you were told
   about HSTS recently. I'm not trying to be offensive, but that shows you're
   not a HTTPS / web security expert. Do you really think you're the person to
   be making world wide automatic changes to the database? As an aside, HSTS
   is interesting here because the website operator is saying "only use this
   domain over https", but at that point, we don't need to make changes to the
   database because the web client should be aware of the HSTS preload list;
   the protocol listed in the referrer is not relevant.
   3. Again, are you checking https certificates? Do you know that the
   https site actually works?
   4. Are you checking the redirect code? Do you differentiate between
   temporary and permanent redirects?
   5. Are redirects even that bad? If I was to set up some careful
   redirects and have them ignored by a bot that thinks it knows better, I may
   be a little annoyed. What about geographic redirects? http://example.com
   becomes https://de.example.com, for example.
   6. A different, but related issue: You say you "abhor www", but does
   that mean you should be making changes based on this? What about the people
   that like www. ? www. and the bare domain can be different hosts, so what
   about the small number of cases in which people host a different site on
   the bare domain? I notice your own domain resolves a different IP for the
   bare domain and the www subdomain.

I can see that you want to promote https adoption, but I can't see that the
OSM database is the place to do it. In the end, the website operator is
responsible for deciding upon transport security, or not, and in how they
publicise their sites; working with site operators, I think there is better
work to be done encouraging https adoption outside of OSM, or more advanced
topics such as HSTS. I also think you could explore the applications that
use OSM data, and determine if they're using resources such as the HSTS
preload list.

I don't think there has been enough consideration of some of the issues
here, and I think an automated bot edit would create a lot of noise without
any obvious improvements.

Cheers, Joseph



On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 13:14, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 26/02/2019 12:34, Bryce Jasmer wrote:
> > Correct. No change will be made on anything other than the most
> > straightforward of redirects. So even http://example.com ->
> > https://example.com/home.aspx will be ignored.
>
> What about certificate checking?  Suppose someone primarily uses http://
> for accessing their server, but has either a self-signed certificate on
> https:// or an untrusted / expired one (perhaps they were testing).
> Presumably in that case you wouldn't change http:// to https:// ?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #417 2018-07-10-2018-07-16

[Joseph Reeves]

It was showing, for a very brief period, a generic domain holding page.

Cheers, Joseph



On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 at 07:03, Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

> it looks normal for me, but it is unclear what you mean by
> "Looks like it's been hacked or something"
>
>
>
> 21. Lipiec 2018 11:12 od o...@hjart.dk:
>
> What happened to the website? Looks like it's been hacked or something.
>
> lørdag den 21. juli 2018 10.54.31 CEST skrev weeklyteam:
>
> The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 417,
> is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all
> things
> happening in the openstreetmap world:
>
> http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/10518
>
> Enjoy!
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] finding settlements where the highways do connect across the settlement

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi John,

This sounds like a fun problem. Thinking as I type, you could...


   1. Generate a list of all place names in the area you are interested in,
   plus a lat/lon location
   2. Use the GraphHopper API to route from a known good location to each
   location in step 1
   3. For every location that can be routed to, remove that entry from list
   generated in step 1
   4. Review remaining locations, keep mapping
   5. Return to the start

This should be reasonable to achieve in your favourite scripting language.
Although this is not likely to be the most efficient method, I'm doing
something similar for a different problem with reasonable success. I can
see this being an enjoyable exercise at least.

You may also find KeepRight's "floating islands" check useful:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Keep_Right/130_floating_islands

Cheers, Joseph



On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 at 19:03, john whelan  wrote:

> I connect them as I come across them I just wondered if anyone had a magic
> spell to find them?
>
> Thanks John
>
> On 4 July 2018 at 13:33, Jean-Marc Liotier  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, July 4, 2018 6:12 pm, john whelan wrote:
>> > I'm using JOSM and find unconnected highways is useful but in Africa I'm
>> > seeing a number of settlements that have highways entering on both sides
>> > but nothing connecting them which poses problems for routing software.
>> >
>> > Any suggestions ?
>>
>> Connect them !
>>
>> Seriously, even if you don't feel like detailing their path across the
>> settlement, road network connectivity is worth the urban imprecision... In
>> the beginning of Openstreetmap, major ways coming into major cities would
>> just meet in the middle !
>>
>> Playing with routers such as OSRM is a way I have sometimes stumbled upon
>> such cases of disconnection.
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping rivers that flow into/through lakes?

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi all,

Slightly off topic, but I was recently wondering if there was a waterway
routing tool available? As in, I'd like to click a point in a waterway and
have the downstream route plotted, presumably to the sea. It appears to me
that a tool like that could be useful in this discussion?

Despite my best efforts, I keep finding river drainage basins fascinating :)

Cheers, Joseph



On 23 February 2018 at 10:35, Rory McCann  wrote:

> On 23/02/18 06:53, Maarten Deen wrote:
>
>> I see nothing wrong with those examples, I would do it the same,
>> especially if the rivers can be sailed on by boat. Then you absolutely need
>> the rivers to be connected to a central river (or fairway) in the lake.
>>
>
> But then how far do you go? Should every stream be connected to the
> central river? e.g. what about here ( http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi
> /?view=water=28.57869=-16.75136=11 )?
>
> If some rivers/streams shouldn't be connected, then some data consumers
> will have to do an automatic connection anyway. When measuring water run
> off and pollution, you probably want to know that "stuff going into
> stream X will eventually get to point Y downstream" (right?).
>
> Connecting all means that large lakes will be full of a "skeleton" of
> joining rivers/streams, and a small 1km stream could get a lot longer.
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

[Joseph Reeves]

"Andy, as I stated before, JOSM doesn't force you to edit in your area - it
shows you whatever data you download."

This isn't quite true, or rather, you're not understanding how people map.

JOSM will let you edit any data in the world, but you have to be interested
in that area first: I can be sat in England and download a village on the
other side of the world, but I have to go and do it.

So if I fix up errors in JOSM in a geographic area that I'm not currently
sat it, it's because I have an interest in that geographic area, not in
JOSM validation rules.

There is no "random page" button in JOSM.

Wikipedia would be different: it's easy to see differences in Wikipedia
between content and grammar, so you could easily swap out every mention of
"color" for "colour" on en-gb pages whilst leaving the subject matter
coherent.

You seem to be confusing the content and the grammar of OSM and have
provided a tool to make changes world wide - outside of people's areas of
geographic interest or expertise - that is at risk of damaging the actual
OSM "subject".

>From reading most of the posts in these interminable threads it appears
that you do not understand how OSM, and the people that make it, actually
works.

This is ok; personally I'm not interested in Wikipedia editing, so I don't.
I don't want to apply OSM style practices to Wikipedia as I know there's a
whole world of people there doing their own thing. It doesn't have to go
both ways.

In short, I have looked at your tool and don't think it is currently
beneficial to the OSM ecosystem. The discussions ongoing here suggest it
won't ever be.

Thanks, Joseph




On 13 Nov 2017 21:22, "Yuri Astrakhan"  wrote:

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 13/11/2017 19:36, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
> > That's why I think Sophox is a much better and safer alternative to
> JOSM's autofixes.
>
> At the risk of repeating something that's been said multiple times
> previously, with JOSM autofixes you're performing edits in an area where
> you've already edited.  You're presumably somewhat familiar with what's
> there (you may even have actually visited in person and seen what it looks
> like on the ground). With your "tool" you're simply performing a mechanical
> edit with no experience of the underlying data.
>

Andy, as I stated before, JOSM doesn't force you to edit in your area - it
shows you whatever data you download. OverpassT can provide it to JOSM
anywhere too. Your query in Sophox can be limited to an area, or can be
anywhere - it all depends on the task's query. Also, you keep misusing the
word "mechanical edit" (per wiki definition, see my other email).  Don't
dilute the term.

My main point remains - doing a "by-the-way fixing" is worse than dedicated
effort to fix one issue at a time. Tagging experts who studied specific
issue, and who reviewed all relevant wiki notes and comment are better than
a local user who auto-accepts all JOSM-suggested fixes because they sound
reasonable, but who might have missed all the nuances of the specific tag
change. This makes it unrevertable and impossible to find. Also, it's bad
because if a user doesn't accept them, a subsequent editor eventually
will.  Local expertise needs to be balanced with tagging task expertise -
and sorry, there is no unicorn, who knows both perfectly.

In Rory's example - you cannot find who changed what in the past 16 months
for the bathroom autofix. You cannot revert it, because it is mixed with
others. My tool solves that, because experts can review it, and later
experts in that specific issue can review all found cases, and spot
errors.  Even if one person doing a Sophox task spots an error and tags it
as invalid, we can easily notice it and adjust or remove the task, and
easily revert all changes made for that task.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Topology rules

[Joseph Reeves]

A problem i find is with landuse=forest. Formally, those are zones that are
used for growing trees. But practically in OSM, that tag is used for any
land that is covered with trees. So formally, landuse=forest shouldn't
overlap with other zones, but practically, until a new tag
(landcover=trees) is rendered, this rule isn't going to be followed.


Getting off topic, I think you want natural=wood :

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dwood

On 26 October 2017 at 13:37, Janko Mihelić  wrote:

> I like the idea of formalizing OSM topology!
>
> An example: power lines should share nodes with nothing except power
> towers, portals and buildings (substation buildings).
>
> A problem i find is with landuse=forest. Formally, those are zones that
> are used for growing trees. But practically in OSM, that tag is used for
> any land that is covered with trees. So formally, landuse=forest shouldn't
> overlap with other zones, but practically, until a new tag
> (landcover=trees) is rendered, this rule isn't going to be followed.
>
> Janko
>
> sri, 25. lis 2017. u 18:41 Martin Koppenhoefer 
> napisao je:
>
>>
>>
>> sent from a phone
>>
>> > On 25. Oct 2017, at 17:36, Gaurav Thapa  wrote:
>> >
>> > In Nepal we have been trying to make sure that each constructed
>> building has its own footprint and is not connected to a neighbouring
>> structure via a shared wall. We do this as in reality this is the case as
>> each building structure though built next to each other has its own
>> footprint (independent foundation).
>>
>>
>> yes, you can find both situations: a single dividing wall used by both
>> neighboring buildings (in Europe this occurs mostly with medieval
>> buildings), or each building has its own walls (and foundations), but
>> without a significant space between them (e.g. 2 cm of insulating material).
>>
>> I would treat both situations the same and use shared nodes, but maybe
>> wouldn’t object if someone purposefully mapped the latter as 2
>> almost-touching buildings, although the osm building ways usually describe
>> the footprint of the completed building (i.e. with facades, cladding etc.)
>> and not the raw load bearing structure.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Misrepresentation of OSM by HOT?

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi all,

The previous thread, IIRC:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2015-November/003556.html

Version 2 of the Task Manager had "a perfectly fine choice of name for this
kind of tool" [0], but I can't really see how V3 [1] is much different.

Cheers, Joseph


[0]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2015-November/003558.html
[1] https://github.com/hotosm/tasking-manager


On 23 October 2017 at 10:08, Christoph Hormann  wrote:

>
> I recently turned up on the HOT tasking manager page
> (http://tasks.hotosm.org/) and found the page is now presenting itself
> tautologically as an "OpenStreetMap Collaborative Mapping" portal with
> no indication except for the small logo on top that this is a separate
> project with no official character.  At the same time it seems (at a
> first glance) there is not a single link on the site to OpenStreetMap.
> To the visitor unfamiliar with OSM this is quite likely to generate the
> impression that this is OSM and that contributing to "OpenStreetMap
> Collaborative Mapping" always happens via HOT tasks.
>
> In my eyes this is a fairly clear misrepresentation of OpenStreetMap not
> covered by the trademark policy we now have.
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Beach routing

[Joseph Reeves]

I have seen IRL a roundabout in the USA in which this approach was taken:
The latest discussion I heard was whether to put larger concrete blocks on
it, to further discourage people routing across it, or increase levels of
driver training.

If you're confident a fix can be coded up, pick your favourite router, fork
the code and fire up Vim.



On 6 September 2017 at 12:49, Dave F  wrote:

>
> On 06/09/2017 12:33, James wrote:
>
>> Not really, with a roundabout, you have a way you can follow. Where as an
>> area, you'd calculate somewhat of the middle between the two edges to
>> generate a path, as you can't just route on the boundary of the polygon as
>> it might be unwalkable/doesnt make sense in reality
>>
>
> With a polygon you have a perimeter way to follow. From a start node, go
> around the boundary (as with a roundabout), find the best exit node (as
> with a roundabout). draw a route line between the two.
>
>
> DaveF
>
> ---
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Joseph Reeves]

How about just StreetScape?

I think the open- prefix is unnecessary unless OpenStreetView is officially
part of the OSM project? We should be expecting all good projects to be
open by default, so branding as Open may be unnecessary. In addition,
projects should be aiming to compete on features and completeness (as
helped by the openness) as opposed to relying on being open as a USP.

Just my 2 pennies worth,

Joseph

On 8 Nov 2016 6:57 pm, "Richard Fairhurst"  wrote:
>
> Andy Mabbett wrote:
> > This is hardly surprising, and not unreasonable (there's no
> > "Ford Beetle" or "Volkswagen Mini", nor a "BurgerKing
> > Happy Meal". for example).
>
> Though there is Ordnance Survey Street View, which pre-dates Google Street
> View by several years. (It's soon to be replaced by OS Open Map Local.)
>
> FWIW, I like the "-scape" suffix, e.g. OpenStreetscape:
>
>  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/streetscape
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/OpenStreetView-name-change-tp5885558p5885580.html
> Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Openstreetmap in Formula 1

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi, it's been appearing for a while around the world:

https://twitter.com/shtosm/status/445142383420665856
https://twitter.com/EdLoach/status/445209296394268672
https://twitter.com/osmcbba/status/617709297858969600

Cheers, Joseph



On 23 July 2016 at 13:54, Maarten Deen  wrote:

> I'm quite positive that I just saw a shot of a computer of one of the F1
> teams showing the OSM with a rainradar overlay during qualifying of the GP
> of Hungary.
> Is that a public service from some organisation in Hungary or did they
> develop this themselves?
>
> Regards,
> Maarten
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Craigslist

[Joseph Reeves]

>People can do what they want with the OSM data.  I don't set it as a poor
reflection on OSM.  The problem is that the CL rendering style is just
looking at oneway=* without looking at the value.  CL is rendering
oneway=no as a >oneway.  I'd report the issue as a rendering bug to CL and
leave out the reflection issue.

Yes, as described, it's a Craigslist problem caused by rendering oneway=no
with an arrow.

>From May last year:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2015-May/073141.html

Cheers, Joseph





On 11 May 2016 at 08:32, Greg Morgan  wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Mike Thompson  wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have a contact at Craigslist [1]?  As you know they use data
>> from OSM, but have their own rendering style.  Unfortunately it looks like
>> at zoom level 16 and higher they render all streets as one way.  This
>> reflects poorly on OSM.
>>
>
> People can do what they want with the OSM data.  I don't set it as a poor
> reflection on OSM.  The problem is that the CL rendering style is just
> looking at oneway=* without looking at the value.  CL is rendering
> oneway=no as a oneway.  I'd report the issue as a rendering bug to CL and
> leave out the reflection issue.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenRandomMap

[Joseph Reeves]

My favourite remains http://openwhatevermap.org/ :)

Joseph
On 23 Jan 2016 15:43, "PanierAvide"  wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> The OSM project is associated to many tools and online maps, most of the
> time useful, about various themes. For example, we have OpenSeaMap,
> OpenCycleMap, OpenBeerMap, OpenSolarMap, OpenEvacMap, OpenLoveMap,
> OpenTopoMap, OpenEventMap, ...
>
> In order to help the community and make it develop even more interesting
> projects, I just released OpenRandomMap : a name generator for open online
> maps. The goal is to give ideas to all developers in the community, and let
> them create new amazing maps. You can use it here :
> http://github.pavie.info/openrandommap/
>
> It is released under AGPL v3 license, on GitHub :
>
> https://github.com/PanierAvide/panieravide.github.io/tree/master/openrandommap
>
> I hope we will see soon some new "OpenIceMachineMap" or
> "OpenPrincipleOfEquivalenceMap" ;)
>
> --
> PanierAvide
> Géomaticien & développeur
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Tile Server manual build 15.10 troubleshooting

[Joseph Reeves]

Have you considered running 14.04 in a virtual machine under 15.10 on your
laptop?

Qemu / KVM is pretty straightforward to get running, probably easier for a
linux newbie than getting a tileserver built on 15.10, and you'll benefit
from learning about virtualization under Ubuntu. You'll also be able to
experiment with the virtual machine without messing up your usual work
environment.

I've got a setup like this and am very happy with it.

Cheers, Joseph
On 3 Jan 2016 13:37, "Skyler F"  wrote:

> That makes sense,
> The only reason I am running 15.10 is because it supports keyboard
> backlight, brightness, and wifi out of the box on my macbook, where I had
> problems with the 14 LTS.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Andy Townsend  wrote:
>
>> ... well I wouldn't say "changed"; 14.04 LTS is still the current LTS and
>> is supported through 2019 (though some tile server dependencies may "move
>> on" and make it not a good idea before then, like happened with 10.04)‎.
>>
>> That's not to say that a 15.10 version of the doc isn't a good idea;
>> speaking for myself I've never had a pressing need to look at it  because
>> I've never jumped onto Ububtu's non-LTS update treadmill.
>>
>> A new LTS version should be out this year (if I understand what Ubuntu
>> normally do).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Skyler F
>> *Sent: *Sunday, 3 January 2016 17:28
>> *To: *talk@openstreetmap.org
>> *Subject: *Re: [OSM-talk] Tile Server manual build 15.10 troubleshooting
>>
>> Thanks. That got me past step 1.
>>
>> 8 upgraded, 313 newly installed, 0 to remove and 83 not upgraded.
>>
>> So that is the first thing to change in the documentation on the website,
>> instead of libtiff4-dev change it to libtiff-dev.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Sebastiaan Couwenberg > > wrote:
>>
>>> On 03-01-16 17:48, Graham Jones wrote:
>>> > if you type "sudo apt-cache search libtiff" it lists all the packages
>>> that
>>> > are available with 'libtiff' in the title.  On my system it lists
>>> > libtiff5-dev, so I would suggest installing that.
>>>
>>> Just install libtiff-dev, it is the virtual package provided by both
>>> libtiff4-dev & libtiff5-dev, it will pull in the relevant libtiffN-dev
>>> package for the distribution in question.
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>>
>>> Bas
>>>
>>> --
>>>  GPG Key ID: 4096R/6750F10AE88D4AF1
>>> Fingerprint: 8182 DE41 7056 408D 6146  50D1 6750 F10A E88D 4AF1
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>> KDØWHB
>> electricity...@gmail.com
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

[Joseph Reeves]

Your understanding of new member admission is correct, however, these
decisions are made by majority vote, so I still have little individual say.
The problem we face in HOT on this issue is getting enough members to
approve new intakes rather than the actions of individuals.

I still fail to see how HOT members could subvert the OSMF, but perhaps I
lack imagination.

Cheers, Joseph
On 28 Nov 2015 12:11, "Christoph Hormann" <chris_horm...@gmx.de> wrote:

> On Saturday 28 November 2015, Joseph Reeves wrote:
> >5. I have no decision making powers within HOT - I am a member
> > just as I am an OSMF Member
>
> It seems to me this is not quite correct although - since the work of
> the HOT members is not in public - i cannot really say for sure.
>
> In addition to the right (and in case of HOT apparently the obligation)
> to vote for the board you also have the right - together with your
> fellow members - to decide who becomes a member.  To me this seems a
> quite fundamental difference to the OSMF.
>
> --
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> http://www.imagico.de/
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Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

[Joseph Reeves]

Dear all,

I've enjoyed reading these emails this week, but have stayed out of the
discussion. I just wanted to clarify some quick points:


   1. I have not discussed my running for the OSMF Board with any other
   candidates
   2. I have not discussed my running for the OSMF Board with the HOT
   group. I did sent an email to the listserv [0] but got no feedback other
   than the suggestion that I send it to the public HOT list after initially
   only sending it to the Members' list
   3. I am not convinced that the answered questions uncover any HOT
   colluding
   4. I view my HOT Membership as the recognition that I previously have
   made a commitment / contribution to HOT
   5. I have no decision making powers within HOT - I am a member just as I
   am an OSMF Member
   6. I am not a member of a secret society that controls HOT from the
   shadows. I don't think such a thing exists, although I would check that
   there have been no pizza vans parked outside the OSMF HQ for a suspiciously
   long time

I look forward to the ongoing election process and am genuinely excited
about the next OSMF Board term. Hopefully I can be a part of it!

Thanks, Joseph


[0] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2015-November/010561.html

On 28 November 2015 at 10:32, Christoph Hormann <chris_horm...@gmx.de>
wrote:

> On Saturday 28 November 2015, Tom Taylor wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> > As a naive lurker on the lists, I took the announced candidacies at
> > face value. That is, committed individuals decided individually to
> > run for office. I agree that if all of them got elected, HOT would
> > dominate the Board, but that is surely not a foregone conclusion. But
> > do you really have evidence of a HOT conspiracy as opposed to a set
> > of committed individuals?
>
> Within the general OSM community it is probably not a widespread
> assumption that there is a cabal within HOT that pulls the strings
> behind the curtains - although there are events where you can get this
> idea - like when several people from HOT suddenly turn up in a
> discussion all representing the same standpoint.  But many mappers
> notice that people engaged with HOT often share certain views and
> approaches to things that are less common among other mappers.  You can
> see this to some extent in the answers to the questions for the OSMF
> board candidates.
>
> So when people have reservations w.r.t. board candidates with a HOT
> background this does not necessarily mean they have a problem with the
> HOT project or its organization or its influence on the OSMF.  It could
> simply be they have reservations regarding the views shared by those
> people which could well be the same views that also motivated them for
> participating in HOT.
>
> > I note the references to Kate Chapman as representative of HOT. She
> > is no longer executive director there.
>
> This probably deserves some clarification:  In contrast to the OSMF
> where everyone able to spend the membership fee can become member
> membership of the HOT origanization is restricted, the current members
> vote who can become a new member.  See
>
> https://hotosm.org/voting-members
>
> Also in contrast to the OSMF activities of the HOT membership are not
> generally public (feel free to correct me if i am wrong here).  Also
> HOT members have certain obligations of contributing to HOT activities
> as outlined on
>
> https://hotosm.org/sites/default/files/HOT_Membership_Code.pdf
>
> According to the available information Kate is a member of HOT - so are
> several candidates for the OSMF board:
>
> Mikel Maron
> Joseph Reeves
> Yantisa Akhadi
>
> Other candidates are active in HOT to some extent (like participating in
> HOT mapping tasks) but are not members of the HOT organization.
>
> --
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> http://www.imagico.de/
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Frederik,

I have a more fundamental question based on the assumption that jobs in the
HOT Tasking Manager occupy a small part of the real physical world: Why
does it matter what the changeset comments in this area is? If everyone
mapping a city in Nigeria, such as in task
http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1335, uses a comment to reflect this, how
does this bother people mapping outside that area?

If people, for some reason, map outside of this city using the same
changeset, you might notice it in your local area, but thanks to the
comment you'll be bale to understand what the problem was.

You say that you find these comments "not useful", but can you expand?
Could you please let me know what useful things I could be spending my time
on?

Thanks, Joseph




On 19 November 2015 at 00:11, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>I would like to draw everyone's attention to a long-standing
> community recommendation:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_changeset_comments
>
> It explains why you should use sensible changeset comments that describe
> what you (think you) have been doing.
>
> I don't know exactly who encourages this, but I am seeing lots of
> changesets with comments like this:
>
> #MissingMaps #hotosm-project-12345 Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC) #100mapathons
> #OSMGeoWeek
>
> This is *not* useful. First of all, we're not Twitter; we don't evaluate
> these hashtags. I don't know if there are some downstream services that
> do, but if so, please switch to using a secondary tag (remember,
> changesets, like other OSM objects, can have any number of tags).
>
> As a reader of the edit history of a place, I am interested in someone
> writing that they have traced buildings or drawn roads or done whatever.
> I'm not so much interested in (what I perceive as) vanity hashtags, they
> don't help me understand what the person did.
>
> I mean look at this:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/history#map=6/8.418/43.923
>
> It's really a caricature of what changeset comments were meant to be.
>
> Can it be fixed somehow, or have we permanently moved from changeset
> comments being aimed at your fellow human mappers to changeset comments
> being auto-generated for consumption by some software that makes sense
> of them?
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Geo URL not working

[Joseph Reeves]

The Geo URI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo_URI_scheme

Obviously on the OSM share menu it's the same lat / long / zoom as you see
in the browser address bar.

Clicking on it would launch an application that's registered to handle Geo
URIs. The error you're getting is generated by your browser - it doesn't
now what to do with an address starting geo: - so the fix is to install an
application that can do something with that. I've not used either in a
while, but presumably Google Earth or KDE's Marble could handle such an
address.

Cheers, Joseph



On 5 October 2015 at 12:23, Dave F.  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Map main page. Under the Share button there's a 'Geo URI' Unsure what it's
> meant to achieve but it returns a 'The address wasn't understood' error. Is
> this simple to fix?
>
> Dave F.
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Portal for end users

[Joseph Reeves]

http://hello.mapquest.com/ ?

On 14 September 2015 at 19:25, Daniel Koć  wrote:

> I had an idea to add UMap functionality to OSM.org website and I
> discovered Mateusz Konieczny lately wanted to add a dynamic layer with
> opening hours (and some more data), which I think would be also useful for
> users:
>
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1038
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1056
>
> However the response we got is that all the features on our website are
> there because they help mappers. While I'm sure overlay showing opening
> hours falls into this category easily, map personalization is primary a
> feature for end users (of course mappers may use it too, but it may not
> have direct impact on OSM data).
>
> This made me wonder if we care only for having portal for mappers and
> don't like to have some useful features just because they are addressed
> rather for data consumers? In most of the cases this is not the
> contradiction, but why should we "reject" end users' needs?
>
> OSM-carto, which is what I'm more familiar with, tries to reach both these
> groups:
>
>
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/CARTOGRAPHY.md#purposes
>
> --
> "The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags
> down" [A. Cohen]
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Portal for end users

[Joseph Reeves]

Ah, ok, I hadn't checked the US, but the other places I'd looked at used
OSM. The site seems to have fallen over now, however.



On 15 September 2015 at 17:19, Ian Dees <ian.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://beta.mapquest.com/ does not use OSM data in the US, at least.
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Joseph Reeves <iknowjos...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> http://hello.mapquest.com/ ?
>>
>> On 14 September 2015 at 19:25, Daniel Koć <daniel@koć.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> I had an idea to add UMap functionality to OSM.org website and I
>>> discovered Mateusz Konieczny lately wanted to add a dynamic layer with
>>> opening hours (and some more data), which I think would be also useful for
>>> users:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1038
>>> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1056
>>>
>>> However the response we got is that all the features on our website are
>>> there because they help mappers. While I'm sure overlay showing opening
>>> hours falls into this category easily, map personalization is primary a
>>> feature for end users (of course mappers may use it too, but it may not
>>> have direct impact on OSM data).
>>>
>>> This made me wonder if we care only for having portal for mappers and
>>> don't like to have some useful features just because they are addressed
>>> rather for data consumers? In most of the cases this is not the
>>> contradiction, but why should we "reject" end users' needs?
>>>
>>> OSM-carto, which is what I'm more familiar with, tries to reach both
>>> these groups:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/CARTOGRAPHY.md#purposes
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Innovative uses of OSM data in cities?

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Jo,

Inasafe for an example? http://inasafe.org/en/ Disaster modelling
based on OSM data, particularly buildings.

I wrote up a blog post about data collection in Padang, Indonesia:
http://hotosm.org/updates/2012-09-24_from_remote_tracing_to_field_mapping_in_padang
I just realised that was almost 3 years ago. Tempus fugit and all
that, but hopefully still relevant.

Cheers, Joseph

On 29 August 2015 at 16:39, Jo Walsh metaz...@fastmail.net wrote:
 dear all,

 Next week I'm giving a talk about OSM and the work of the DWG to a group
 of mostly academics who are interested in Smart Cities and being fairly
 critical about Urban Big Data.

 I wanted to show a few examples of innovative uses of the data, or
 things that can only have come about because so much of the base map is
 there.

 OSMBuildings.org and the related 3D work would be one example. Another
 is some of Alasdair Rae's work visualising urban footprints:
 http://www.undertheraedar.com/2015/07/urban-footprints-some-building-outline.html
 And for something different, the OSM based clothing from
 http://monochome.com/

 But I am interested in other examples of novel uses of OSM data, any
 suggestions from the list would be welcome.


 Jo
 --
   Jo Walsh
   metaz...@fastmail.net

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Re: [OSM-talk] Some thoughts against remote mapping

[Joseph Reeves]

Agree. I dont think it should be a hardline stance of local vs remote.
There should be balance. For example, remotely mapping roads is useful for
us since it provides an initial framework for newbies to add POIs.

Indeed, I've written up the same experience with remote building tracing:

http://hotosm.org/updates/2012-09-24_from_remote_tracing_to_field_mapping_in_padang

Photo'd:

https://twitter.com/iknowjoseph/status/248298952661811201

Cheers, Joseph






On 15 June 2015 at 12:40, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote:


  There is no remote mapper that I know of that believes they can produce
 a better map than a local can ... Sharing the remote burden all over the
 world instead of a small local populace, probably with limited internet
 connectivity, hardware and leisure time - to me that can only be a good
 thing.

 Agree. I dont think it should be a hardline stance of local vs remote.
 There should be balance. For example, remotely mapping roads is useful for
 us since it provides an initial framework for newbies to add POIs.

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[OSM-talk] HOT seeking Interim Executive Director

[Joseph Reeves]

Dear OSM aficionados,

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team seeks an Interim Executive Director. We
need your help to seek a great successful candidate. If you are that person
or know someone, please do apply or share this link widely.

Details can be found here:
http://hot.openstreetmap.org/updates/2015-03-17_humanitarian_openstreetmap_team_seeks_interim_executive_director

Please send any applications to ap...@hotosm.org - not to any individuals.
Follow us on Twitter for more details as they come
https://twitter.com/hotosm

(Kate Chapman has been amazing as ED. She is taking a new role and path
outside of HOT after 5 years of leading us. Thanks so much Kate for all
your years of leadership in mapping. On behalf of HOT, we thank you.)

(Apologies for cross-posting)

Thanks, Joseph
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Re: [OSM-talk] Android Network Location Providers?

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Paul,

Is Mozilla Location Service useful to you?
https://location.services.mozilla.com/

Cheers, Joseph



On 10 February 2015 at 08:36, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:

 As I've experienced unusually poor performance with Google's NLP in
 Android, I was wondering if anybody knew of a dropin replacement I can
 install that cuts Google's NLP while still allowing NLP through some kind
 of open means, even if self-generated on the device?

 MicroG Unified NLP doesn't work in this case as I have a number of apps
 that depend on Google Play Services, which MicroG pretty much makes
 unusable.

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Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol

[Joseph Reeves]

Oleksly,

As for the inclusion, - the industry provides nowadays a large choice of
alcohol-free beer, wine, sparkling wine [1]. And even alcohol-free
vodka, alcohol-free whiskey, tequila, brandy, etc. [2].

I don't think we should be relying on the alcohol producers to be providing
us with opportunities for inclusion. You're basically saying hide the fact
that you don't drink alcohol whereas the message I got from the discussion
was we need to provide social events that don't revolve around (at least
some people) drinking alcohol.

If one drinks cola or orange juice at a social event, people start to
ask questions

You're going to the wrong social events.

Cheers, Joseph




On 5 November 2014 10:29, Oleksiy Muzalyev oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch
wrote:

 Hi Kathleen,

 OK. No more statistical data in this topic (just wanted to make a point
 that drinking is present in the traditional culture of many countries).

 As for the inclusion, - the industry provides nowadays a large choice of
 alcohol-free beer, wine, sparkling wine [1]. And even alcohol-free
 vodka, alcohol-free whiskey, tequila, brandy, etc. [2].

 If one drinks cola or orange juice at a social event, people start to
 ask questions, Why you do not drink but your friends do. But if one
 drinks alcohol free-beer or alcohol-free wine nobody even notices
 (speaking from experience). Nobody usually cares to read on the label of
 a bottle what percent of alcohol it contains. And the bottle itself
 looks exactly like a bottle of a traditional beer, wine, etc.

 [1] http://www.alcoholfree.co.uk/
 [2] http://shop.arkaybeverages.com/8-alcohol-free-vodka

 brgds
 Oleksiy

 On 04.11.2014 18:12, Kathleen Danielson wrote:
  Do you think that we could take the conversation on alcohol
  consumption statistics to a different forum? I don't think that's
  adding value to our discussion of making sure that we aren't excluding
  folks who prefer not to drink.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Early History of OSM

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Clifford,

There's not early maps here, but Pascal neis recently worked out some great
statistics concerning the age of OSM data:

http://neis-one.org/2014/07/age-of-osm-objects/

These may provide a useful parallel to any early tiles; if nothing else
they should show you something about the amount of data that exists from
these early days.

Cheers, Joseph





On 4 August 2014 17:27, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote:

 I'm looking for some images of early OSM maps. Thanks to Martijn Exel, we
 have http://mvexel.github.io/thenandnow/#10/52.2644/5.2899, the Then and
 Now from 2007 to current. But I'd really like some images of the very
 earliest OSM maps.

 As many others are doing, Seattle is holding an anniversary celebration
 with speakers, pizza and cake. Right now we have over 50 people signed up
 to attend. Many new to OSM. I'd like to give a sense of what it was like 10
 years ago. The wiki has timelines, which I plan to use, but I couldn't find
 any images. Steve C told me he doesn't keep any, so I'm throwing a wide net
 to the community for help. If you can supply some images, please give me a
 frame of reference to what the images shows and when.

 Once I get a breather, I will add the images to the wiki to help with the
 history of the project.

 Thanks,
 Clifford

 --
 @osm_seattle
 osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
 OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch

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Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] HOT house hack - Mon-Fri next week near Worksop

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi all,

It seems that Internet connectivity is an issue for a number of people -
I'm expecting to have a number of MiFis with Data SIMs delivered for us to
use in the bunk house. They're being donated, so I've promised that we're
not going to be pushing gigabytes around, but there should be plenty for
email, JOSM, github, etc.

Cheers, Joseph


On 4 September 2013 12:04, Harry Wood m...@harrywood.co.uk wrote:

 Ladies and gentlemen

 You remember the HOT HOUSE HACK plan? :

 Humanitarian hackers are gathering in a bunkhouse near Worksop in the days
 following State Of The Map (staying Monday night through to Thursday
 night).  Hunkered down in this countryside basic accommodation, we'll be
 working on all sorts of tools in and around HOT and OpenStreetMap in
 general. We'll also be hacking on documentation, and discussing processes
 to improve the way we bring maps to the world. We maybe be doing a bit of
 disaster simulating (particularly regarding poor internet connection!) and
 we'll certainly get out for some fresh air and mapping in the countryside
 too. Apart from anything else it will be a great way to prolong the
 face-to-face time we get at State Of The Map, and socialise with felling
 OpenStreetMap enthusiasts.

 Why am I telling you this?  Well we had a few last minute drop-outs.
 Obviously this is pretty short notice but if you're within easy travelling
 distance, or if you're already in Birmingham for SOTM and in the week
 following the conference, come join in with the HOT house hack! For more
 details go to this hackpad:

 https://hackpad.com/HOT-House-2013-lm1cEL25GKl


 If you'd like to join in, you can edit the hack pad to put your name on
 the list. Maybe drop us an email too.

 Hope to be seeing some of you soon!

 Harry Wood

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Re: [OSM-talk] Foursquare superusers encouraged to directly edit OSM

[Joseph Reeves]

What am I missing here

A use case may be in Syria. Aid agencies want to know, for example, the
location of bakeries in Syria because these have been targeted during the
ongoing violence over.

Someone may have checked into a bakery on FourSquare at lat=34.716286 
lon=36.727005. This would then be a location that exists in FourSquare's
DB, but not in the OpenStreetMap base mapping that FourSquare use in their
website. We cannot, for obvious reasons, send people to Syria to map
bakeries, so sources such as FourSquare may be potentially very useful.

The number of locations that exist within FourSquare, but not within OSM,
are numerous. This is especially true outside of Western Europe or the US.

Joseph





On 2 August 2013 14:08, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:

 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

 is there a way to share foursqure data with osm? Do foursquare
 users
 release all
 right to entered data to forusquare? If so, then foursquare could
 (if they
 decided so) release that data to OSM community, right?


  ?
 which leads directly to OpenStreetMap’s web editor at the right
 location,
 where they can join OSM and make updates
 They are being signed up directly to OSM ...


  yes, but Valent's question is still interesting: it would be great to have
 foursquares data released under ODbL or provided with explicit permission
 to
 import into osm (but I doubt they are planning to do so in the next time,
 in the
 end besides their community the data is their asset).


 But we don't want the 'extras' that foursquare add actually on the map.
 The locations they are directing to need to be on the map and that should
 be already available data? What am I missing here :) All of the searches
 I've pulled up appear in the base map. Foursquare are the sort of third
 party use that dovetails in nicely - not that I actually use it ...


 --
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 -
 Contact - 
 http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=**contacthttp://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
 L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
 EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
 Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
 Rainbow Digital Media - 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis

[Joseph Reeves]

I've not followed this thread too closely, but arguably OSM is meant to be
made not used. Nobody should use OSM on a daily basis; that's what MapQuest
Open, MapBox et al are for.

Using OSM on a daily basis would be like trying to read a dictionary as
your only book: all the words are there, but the story is rubbish.

/Devil's Advocate
On 20 Jul 2013 16:16, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote:


 On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.comwrote:

 To date OSM is run by a group of mappers that caters to mappers. There is
 an unlikely but burning desire to somehow turn more ordinary muggles into
 mappers.  It is as if the map was meant to be made, not used:
 and it's working.  Of the people I talk to and show OpenStreetMap, the
 vast majority have never even heard of it, and that includes land
 management, GIS professionals, teachers and engineers all who could in
 theory be interested.

 What would drive more mapping would in fact be more passive users: some
 percentage will survive the test of fire on the tagging list and become
 mappers.  OSM could offer high quality print exports, or
 one-click embeddable maps, or a dozen other compelling services.  But
 someone would have to pay for all that bandwidth and user support, in order
 to glean a few more true believer mappers.


 I think you just created OSM new tag line, OSM is meant to be made, not
 used

 Adding muggle useable features would certainly be a step in the
 right direction.


 --
 Clifford

 OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik Lowzoom TIles - proof of concept

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Frederik,

I really liked this when I saw it last year; am pleased to see it back on
the mailing list!

To be honest, I prefer the last year's version, but only because of one
feature: country borders. I often use the MapQuest Open tiles, for example,
at low zooms because they show borders much more clearly than the standard
Mapnik tiles do. Likewise, last year's low zoom tiles are easier to
understand when it comes to borders (and is therefore more useful to people
looking to identify the general location of an entire country, something
OSM isn't the best resource for).

Would love to see this on osm.org! I think it would also be a requirement
for an open replacement to Google Earth (I know Marble from the KDE project
does this, but I think it could do it much better).

Cheers, Joseph







On 1 July 2013 21:08, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:



 On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.orgwrote:

 On 12.03.2012 08:56, Frederik Ramm wrote:

 There's nothing keeping one from applying the Tiles@Home lowzoom proces
 http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.**org/lowzoom/http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.org/lowzoom/


 Nice.
 Those strike a pretty reasonable balance between seeing activity and
 clutter.  They give a nice sense
 of human activity across the planet.  Only the ferry routes seemed odd: in
 some cases they are
 prominent enough to look a bit like landform outlines or rendering
 mistakes.


 ---
 For the opposite end of the spectrum (high zoom) I'd love to fill in
 blank areas of the map
 with whatever meager data is available:
 https://github.com/mapnik/mapnik/issues/1906
 Here the goal is to show more of the features when zoomed into a sparse
 area.  In the extreme example,
 show the only oasis in the middle of an otherwise featureless desert tile
 :-).

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Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org

[Joseph Reeves]

 So I don't know if that will be good enough for most people (outside
the US).

Fair enough.

Truth be told, I had originally wondered if Jason's resources would be best
used by acting as a cache on the existing GeoDNS network rather than
hosting any new tiles.

Cheers, Joseph




On 21 February 2013 17:11, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote:

 On Thursday 21 February 2013, Joseph Reeves wrote:
  MapBox? http://mapbox.com/blog/open-aerial/
 
 

 If you look at the phases table at the bottom of
 http://mapbox.com/blog/mapbox-satellite/

 From what I can tell, only Phase 1 is going to be open.

 So I don't know if that will be good enough for most people (outside the
 US).


 robert.


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Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org

[Joseph Reeves]

MapBox? http://mapbox.com/blog/open-aerial/




On 21 February 2013 16:36, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote:

 On Thursday 21 February 2013, Jason Remillard wrote:
  - an overhead image layer + mapnik style. We could reproduce the work
  that MapBox did collecting existing images.

 I don't think you will have much success with the licensing here. Aerial
 imagery rights go for muchos $$$.

 I think you're forgetting we don't have things like bing imagery. We are
 granted the right to use it for a very specific (rather obscure in
 commercial terms) purpose.


 robert.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Missing attribution : Guardian Data and OII use OSM

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Pavithran,

Looking at the images, I can see attribution in the bottom left corners.
It's a little small, but it's there:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/2/14/1360836990090/Lagos-007.jpg

Presumably these were scaled to fit the Guardian site and were originally
more readable.

Cheers, Joseph


On 15 February 2013 13:58, pavithran pavithra...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi ,
 Anyone glancing at the image published by The Guardian data [1] could
 say its a OpenStreet Map . But there was no mention of that .
 I went forward and read the article in Floating sheep [2] which also
 doesn't mention anything about the maps being based / are OpenStreet
 Map . Ironic is the fact that the author has taken pain to give
 citations/ references to Geographical Research papers but missed even
 a lil bit of info on where the maps are from .

 Sad to say that its coming from a research institute which studies the
 web on issues like privacy ,copyright etc .

 1.
 http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/gallery/2013/feb/14/africa-tweets-mapped
 2 .
 http://www.floatingsheep.org/2013/02/the-urban-geographies-of-tweets-in.html

 PS : I do realise that it[2] isnt an institute blog/press .

 Regards,
 Pavithran


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Re: [OSM-talk] Missing attribution : Guardian Data and OII use OSM

[Joseph Reeves]

Sorry, I meant bottom *right* hand corners. South East, I guess.

/ICanDoesMaps


On 15 February 2013 14:05, Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Pavithran,

 Looking at the images, I can see attribution in the bottom left corners.
 It's a little small, but it's there:
 http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/2/14/1360836990090/Lagos-007.jpg

 Presumably these were scaled to fit the Guardian site and were originally
 more readable.

 Cheers, Joseph


 On 15 February 2013 13:58, pavithran pavithra...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi ,
 Anyone glancing at the image published by The Guardian data [1] could
 say its a OpenStreet Map . But there was no mention of that .
 I went forward and read the article in Floating sheep [2] which also
 doesn't mention anything about the maps being based / are OpenStreet
 Map . Ironic is the fact that the author has taken pain to give
 citations/ references to Geographical Research papers but missed even
 a lil bit of info on where the maps are from .

 Sad to say that its coming from a research institute which studies the
 web on issues like privacy ,copyright etc .

 1.
 http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/gallery/2013/feb/14/africa-tweets-mapped
 2 .
 http://www.floatingsheep.org/2013/02/the-urban-geographies-of-tweets-in.html

 PS : I do realise that it[2] isnt an institute blog/press .

 Regards,
 Pavithran


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Re: [OSM-talk] Display names of crossroads

[Joseph Reeves]

place=locality

Looks like tagging for the renderer to me, although I am not a resident of
Japan or Korea.

As it is the rendering that is not working as expected, a better resolution
would be to change the renderer so that it displayed junction names.

Joseph





On 13 February 2013 13:56, Kevin Peat k...@k3v.eu wrote:


 On 13 Feb 2013 12:59, Hans Schmidt z0idb...@gmx.de wrote:
 
  Hello,
 
  Is there some way to display the names of crossroads on the OSM map?

 place=locality

 Kevin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Display names of crossroads

[Joseph Reeves]

The thing with the UK is that you get places named after junctions - Church
Cross, or whatever. That may well be a locality, but it's not the same as
naming the junction. That seems to be the difference with these Japan /
Korea examples.

Joseph


On 13 February 2013 14:37, Kevin Peat k...@k3v.eu wrote:


 On 13 Feb 2013 14:20, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote

  +1, place=locality is generally a generic placeholder, which
  should/could be substituted by the time we dig deeper into toponyms
  and develop more specific classes...

 Well a place is just a named geographical location and I believe this tag
 combination is in common usage for named junctions [it certainly is in my
 part of GB where almost every crossroads is named] which as usual with OSM
 trumps all those people trying to create their idealised tagging schemes.

 Be sure to let everyone know when you have developed your classes ;]

 Kevin

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Re: [OSM-talk] New website style sheet

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for the link to this. If we're wanting to submit issues / enter
discussion, should we be posting to github or trac? I've opened one ticket
today, for example, asking that the history page be broken up more [0].
Looking at github, however, I see that this may be part of the planned
better vertical rhythm.

Cheers, Joseph

[0] https://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/4745


On 16 January 2013 13:17, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote:

 For reference, this is the relevan ticket on openstreetmap-website:

 https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/150

 On Jan 16, 2013, at 8:01 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hi,
 
  osm.org has recently modified his style sheet in various areas (search
  results, diary, etc). The result is OSM air, a lot of spacing
  between text lines.
  Is it a subliminal stimuli to fill gaps in the map ? Or an adjustment
  for fat fingers on smartphones ? I don't know. But for those not using
  retina or xtra full widescreens, it's not an improvement.
 
  Pieren
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org

[Joseph Reeves]

It's nearly impossible, in the English-speaking world, to express an
intelligent thought in 140 characters or less.

You got that one expressed in 115 characters #JustSayin'


On 15 January 2013 14:36, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:

 On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, Joseph Reeves wrote:

 Ok, I'll bite...

 I think this would be missing our audience.  If you're illiterate (a
 group Twitter caters specifically to), what are the odds you're going to
 be able to make use of a map, much less contribute constructively to OSM?

 How do illiterate people use Twitter?
 Do illiterate people have no spatial knowledge that could be of use to
 the wider world? Is there no way that Open spatial data could help
 illiterate people?


 It's nearly impossible, in the English-speaking world, to express an
 intelligent thought in 140 characters or less.  It's writing system just
 doesn't work that way.  And you lose characters to tags or links.  It's
 like Google+ without the intelligence, or Facebook without any
 functionality.



 In my opinion OSM is going to really take off once we start making more
 use of social media, or other means of participation, such as SMS messaging
 (the sorts of things you couldn't do with closed spatial data, such as
 GMaps), and start thinking less of pixels on osm.org


 So pick social media that doesn't cater exclusively to a crowd whose
 education stopped midway through Grade 2.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org

[Joseph Reeves]

Ok, I'll bite...

I think this would be missing our audience.  If you're illiterate (a group
Twitter caters specifically to), what are the odds you're going to be able
to make use of a map, much less contribute constructively to OSM?

How do illiterate people use Twitter?
Do illiterate people have no spatial knowledge that could be of use to the
wider world? Is there no way that Open spatial data could help illiterate
people?
Is our audience people that look at osm.org and don't like social media?

In my opinion OSM is going to really take off once we start making more use
of social media, or other means of participation, such as SMS messaging
(the sorts of things you couldn't do with closed spatial data, such as
GMaps), and start thinking less of pixels on osm.org

Joseph


On 9 January 2013 15:15, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 8:57 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:


 I think it is ok for us to post stuff to Twitter, and I think we should
 make room for such news on our web page (many web sites have a widget that
 shows the most recent twitter mentions).

 I would dislike a follow us on Twitter button because it will only show
 the Twitter signup page if someone doesn't have an account, and therefore
 make it look like you had to subscribe to Twitter in order to read our news
 - which is thankfully not true.


 I think this would be missing our audience.  If you're illiterate (a group
 Twitter caters specifically to), what are the odds you're going to be able
 to make use of a map, much less contribute constructively to OSM?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Updating www.bestofosm.org

[Joseph Reeves]

Sarajevo is an example

I was in Sarajevo talking OSM in October whilst participating in a TechCamp
event there. I was surprised to check the coverage this week and to see the
extent it had improved over the last 2 months. Impressive stuff!

Cheers, Joseph






On 12 December 2012 13:59, hbogner hbog...@gmail.com wrote:

 Sarajevo is an example
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Re: [OSM-talk] What to call OSM data?

[Joseph Reeves]

Apologies for bringing up imports on the list. At least I didn't mention
the license change though! ;)

That's not wrong either, but not precise enough to distinguish a project
such as OSM from e.g. governments' Open Data efforts.

Continuing to play Devil's Advocate, I think this is just an issue of
imagination scope: Why do we need to distinguish OSM from governments' Open
Data efforts? Does that bring us any benefit? Are you trying to highlight a
difference of scale or is there one type of Open that's different from
some other Open?

I'd like to imagine a future scenario in which a country's National Mapping
Agency decides that OSM is going to be the official source of geographic
data. As an NMA contributes and maintains data within OSM, the
crowdsourced argument becomes weaker and the Open word becomes more
important.

Cheers, Joseph



On 26 November 2012 13:43, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote:

 On 26.11.2012 14:06, Joseph Reeves wrote:
  Playing Devil's Advocate, crowdsourced isn't appropriate for large
  swathes of OSM data: Europe, for example, is dominated by imported, not
  crowdsourced, CORINE data.

 I don't believe that Europe is dominated by CORINE data. Several
 European countries never imported CORINE, and elsewhere most of the work
 would still consist of roads and other non-landuse data.

 Also consider that imports today almost necessarily have to be performed
 with manual interaction (to avoid duplicates and so on) and by various
 individuals. So even when imports take place, they are done in a
 crowdsourced manner.

 So I think crowdsourced is the most appropriate term that is still
 meaningful.

  I'd describe OSM data simply as open.

 That's not wrong either, but not precise enough to distinguish a project
 such as OSM from e.g. governments' Open Data efforts. That's because it
 overlaps with open licensing, which I assume will be stored separately
 in metadata, and various other associations of the term.

 Tobias

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[OSM-talk] Relations on Irish islands

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi all,

Inspired by this morning's Falkland Isles question, could someone explain
Irish counties / islands to me? Apologies in advance for not signing up to
talk-ie...

I've been tidying up some islands off the Cork coast, which are tagged as
outers in the county relation [0]. Cork county itself is part of the
province of Munster [1], but the Munster boundary tagging on the islands
I'm dealing with ([2] for example) doesn't seem right - they're all tagged
as different

What does different mean? This should be outer?

thinking further on... Could the Cork County relation just be tagged as a
member of the Munster relation? This would then see the Munster relation
removed from individual ways.

Thanks, Joseph


[0] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/332631
[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/278750
[2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/4554557
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Re: [OSM-talk] POI Viewer in distance

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi all,

I've been sharing my location with the website (Firefox 17, old version of
Ubuntu) and still got the grey box. I zoomed out / in and got a map to
display, but without any POIs. I scrolled to Jakarta and the map tiles and
POIs worked as advertised.

Could the grey screen be a rendering issue? You're rendering your own tiles
rather than using the ones at osm.org - so areas in Indonesia are likely
going to be pre-rendered and cached. You presumably haven't pre-rendered my
home town (Oxford, UK), however, so there's no tile to show. I imagine that
if I waited long enough the tile would render and I'd see the image.

Likewise for the POI data, are you only providing this for Indonesia?

Speaking of rendering your own tiles, I noticed that some areas are showing
old data - Lembang, Bandung, for example - is this caused by not importing
more recent data, or by keeping old tiles in the cache?

The site does look impressive, hopefully we'll be able to sort out the
remaining little issues.

Best, Joseph


On 15 November 2012 11:21, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:

 All, thx for the feedback..

 the server located in IIX (Indonesia Internet Exchange) and fetch to our
 osmosa.net

 I think the gray because your browser is not allowed to use geolocation,
 which we use it.

 i think to make a switchable browsing between osmosa.net and
 openstreetmap.org.. let we work on it now..

 bruno,

 the school map only for Indonesia map, because this server own by MoEC /
 Ministery of Education and Culture of Indonesia.

 you must move to Indonesia to get the map.. which there are around 90.000
 schools there and we are working to make 200.000 schools shortly next week.

 this is my screenshot here.


 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151318224019085set=a.69155314084.95728.675689084type=1theater

 Ft

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Re: [OSM-talk] Explanation for image of the week 31?

[Joseph Reeves]

Presumably a dig at the ongoing sporting event that can only be mentioned
in name by corporate sponsors. Likewise London and 2012 are only to be
officially used by those that have paid for the privilege.

Attendees wearing shoes that aren't Adidas branded probably won't be
asked to go barefoot into the stadium. Nobody is welcome if arriving in an
Audi, however.





On 30 July 2012 17:26, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote:

 What's the joke on the current image of the week? It's a reference to
 Harry Potter and the Olympics? Is it a rendering of a real Olympics stadium
 or what? And why are the locations and such scrambled?

 I don't understand it.

 Regards,
 Maarten

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Re: [OSM-talk] Explanation for image of the week 31?

[Joseph Reeves]

http://maps.stamen.com/#watercolor/10/51.4742/-0.1427



On 30 July 2012 17:41, Pavel Melnikov positro...@gmail.com wrote:

 The picture doesn't look like digital image at all. More like an aquarelle
 painting.

 On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.comwrote:


 On 30 Jul 2012, at 17:26, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote:

  What's the joke on the current image of the week? It's a reference to
 Harry Potter and the Olympics? Is it a rendering of a real Olympics stadium
 or what? And why are the locations and such scrambled?

 I would guess the locations are scrambled because the London Olympics
 have been litigous bastards to people who use more than two of the words
 London, Olympic, 2012, or stadium in the same sentence.

 Bob


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Re: [OSM-talk] Very Happy - Looking forward

[Joseph Reeves]

 Vegard Engen mapped insert changeset comment here, near a place in
the changeset. ?

According to the wiki [0] that exists already:
https://apps.facebook.com/osmpinboard/

I've not tried it, however, and get an error telling me that the app
doesn't support https browsing - which I think is the default for facebook
now. I've been told about it working in the past though.

Joseph



[0] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Facebook





On 24 July 2012 07:54, veg...@engen.priv.no wrote:

 What about editor facebook support for editors? :)

 No, I'm actually serious -

 Vegard Engen mapped insert changeset comment here, near a place in the
 changeset. ?

 Of course with a few links in the post that appears on facebook.

 - Vegard

 On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 08:25:45PM -0700, Mikel Maron wrote:
  Great spirit! Now that we're past this milestone, it opens up our
 headspace and energy for building what's next
 
 
  Wish there was a place to consistently capture these ideas, and put
 movement behind them. There's a bunch of stuff on the wiki
 
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Usability
 
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Things_To_Do
 
  Several lists, groups, processes.
 
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Design_Mailing_List
  http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Engineering_Working_Group
 
  My interest is still in building out social features
  http://brainoff.com/weblog/2012/03/30/1773
 
 
 
 
  * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
 
 
  
   From: Matt Williams li...@milliams.com
  To: talk@openstreetmap.org
  Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 9:14 AM
  Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Very Happy - Looking forward
  
  On 23 July 2012 16:54, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:
   Sören Gasch said:
   * Improve ease of editing (like wheelmap, a simple editor that lets
   you amend JUST the tags - name, opening hoursm, url etc..).
  There will be the Amenity Editor which kind of does what you
 propose.
  
  See
  - http://ae.osmsurround.org/
  - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Amenity_Editor
  
  
   and Roland Olbricht said:
   * Make it easy to users to view the data (eg clicking a node/way
 could
   bring up data about it - the url and opening hours tags are not
 visible
   in
   map renders but is very useful to many end users)
  
  There is already a prototype that does show all data
  http://overpass-api.de/open_layers_popup.html
  
  
  
   Wow these both look really good. The editor would really decrease the
   barrier to entry (e.g. shop owners could easily add their opening
 hours).
   What's holding this project back from being more prominently placed
 on the
   map front page / How can I help?
  
  Also, there's also the newer iD (http://www.geowiki.com/,
  http://www.geowiki.com/iD/) which is aiming to be a simple tag and POI
  editor. It's not fully working yet but I imagine that development will
  happen fast.
  
  --
  Matt Williams
  http://milliams.com
  
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Re: [OSM-talk] API not responding

[Joseph Reeves]

Is working fine for me at the moment (albeit 6 hours after you reported this).

Cheers, Joseph




On 24 June 2012 23:16, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote:
 Some 5 minutes ago the API stopped responding to queries.
 Soup and fiddlestick show a drop in the munin stats. Anyone able to check?

 Regards,
 Maarten

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Re: [OSM-talk] Transcription and 'internationalization' in place names

[Joseph Reeves]

 We should really not follow the approach of making the map at
www.openstreetmap.org perfect but instead the data behind it because
that's where we're better than Google and Co.

Agreed, but if we improve the rendering at osm.org, we should be able to
highlight the issue that some users are filling the database with nonsense
names. At the same time, the people that want to see name= (name:en=) on
their osm.org tiles will be able to.

Once the rendering is tweaked to give the results people want, the data
would be presumably cleaned up quite quickly.

Joseph




On 16 April 2012 13:26, Claudius claudiu...@gmx.de wrote:

 Am 16.04.2012 11:36, Andrew Errington:

  On Mon, April 16, 2012 16:54, Maarten Deen wrote:
 snip

 Wouldn't it be an idea to tag the name in the characterset of the
 country and have the renderer decide whether or not to render a name:en
 tag
 with the name tag? I don't know if the renderingrules allow such a
 decision to make. After all, the renderingrules decide how the map looks
 like, and I can understand if countries that do not use latin script want
 to render a latin-clean map. And: do not tag for the renderer. Entering
 names twice is tagging for the renderer.


 I'm glad this topic has come up.  I map heavily in Korea, and here the
 convention has been adopted to have name=* as Local name (English name).
  This is the same as Japan, but I don't know which came first.  In
 addition we have name:en=* (Latin script) and name:ko=* (Hangul script)
 and name:ko_rm=* (Hangul spelled phonetically, in Latin script).  Not all
 tags are present for all objects.

 I have gone along with this for a while, but it has always bothered me.
 On one hand, it's great as it actually makes the map useful (for me).  You
 can even justify it by saying that the roadsigns are all printed in Hangul
 and English (they are) so maybe the name=* tag should have both.  On the
 other hand, it's a chore to enter things twice, it increases the
 opportunity for error, and really, it could be done programmatically.

 I think the root of the problem is that Mapnik didn't make a bilingual map
 at the start, so it was easier to get an army of humans to enter the data
 twice.  Now we have better renderers, with a good example from MapQuest,
 and this experiment here: 
 http://toolserver.org/~osm/**locale/http://toolserver.org/%7Eosm/locale/

 I think the only problem is how does software determine which language
 name=* is in.  This should be the 'fallback' label that is rendered if no
 language is selected, or the selected language tag is missing.  Actually,
 if you describe it in those terms then it doesn't matter.  If my selected
 language is Korean, then name:ko=* will be displayed, thus overriding
 name=*.  If name:ko=* is missing, then name=* will (or should) contain
 something useful.

 In Korea it is most useful (to Koreans and visitors) if we carry on as we
 do, but I would like a tool that automatically constructs
 name=name:ko+space+(+name:**en+)


 You raised some very good points here, Andrew, but again you came back to
 the argument, that Mapnik (I guess you are referring to the map rendering
 at www.openstreetmap.org because MapQuest is also using Mapnik to render
 their open map ;) ) should be made a bilingual map. Still in the code OSM
 is not about the map at www.openstreetmap.org, but about the database
 behind it that hundreds of other projects use. e.g. if you create a Garmin
 map file out of the korean (or even japanese) data it seems to be rather
 harmful to have the Romanization in brackets behind the name. If you would
 want to create a Korean/Japanese only map you would have to
 programmatically remove the brackets if name:ko/name:jp is not present.

 It should actually be the other way around:
 In the ideal world we could (should?) strive for the location node for
 Seoul would contain this data:
 name=서울특별시
 name:el=Σεούλ
 name:en=Seoul
 name:ko_rm=Seoulteukbyeolsi
 name:ru=Сеул

 So a map renderer could easily recreate the current map by using name
 (name:en) as location name, or name (name:ko_rm) to highlight
 romanization to be helpful for korean users.

 We should really not follow the approach of making the map at
 www.openstreetmap.org perfect but instead the data behind it because
 that's where we're better than Google and Co.

 And btw. Google Maps sometimes even has nur the Japanese location names
 and no problem with that either. See the airport and surroundings here:
 http://g.co/maps/4vu3e

 Just take another look at the Mapquest rendering. For me it was an eye
 opener to emphasize on the data quality aspect and away from tagging for a
 nice www.openstreetmap.org

 Claudius



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Re: [OSM-talk] Transcription and 'internationalization' in place names

[Joseph Reeves]

Should I simply open a ticket on Mapnik's issue tracker, to request that in
Korea, labels be rendered as name:ko (name:en)?

I think we should request for a international solution rather than Korea
specifically, but yes, I like the idea. Claudius points out that:

I guess you are referring to the map rendering at www.openstreetmap.orgbecause 
MapQuest is also using Mapnik to render their open map

I don't know if MapQuest have submitted their changes upstream to Mapnik,
but regardless of this, the same functionality should be requested on the
osm.org Mapnik instance.

As for Korea:

Should we add name:ko=서울특별시?
Otherwise, how do we know the Korean name for this city?

It seems to me that adding name:ko is duplicating data. We should be using
the local names for the name: tag, so the Korean can go in there. I would
then have this rendered as name= (name:en=) on the osm.org mapnik tiles.
Such a system could presumably be used worldwide (although I'm sure there
are plenty of people that would disagree). Having said that, adding
name:ko= isn't going to hurt and may be of use to other data consumers.

All best, Joseph



On 16 April 2012 13:58, Andrew Errington a.erring...@lancaster.ac.ukwrote:

 On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 21:40:40 Joseph Reeves wrote:
   We should really not follow the approach of making the map at
 
  www.openstreetmap.org perfect but instead the data behind it because
  that's where we're better than Google and Co.
 
  Agreed, but if we improve the rendering at osm.org, we should be able to
  highlight the issue that some users are filling the database with
 nonsense
  names. At the same time, the people that want to see name= (name:en=)
 on
  their osm.org tiles will be able to.
 
  Once the rendering is tweaked to give the results people want, the data
  would be presumably cleaned up quite quickly.

 Absolutely!  And I think that this particular issue could be cleaned up
 automatically by a 'bot, with an exception report sent to the
 country-specific talk mailing list for anything that needs to be handled
 manually.

 The reason that Japan and Korea have bilingual labels is because mappers
 want
 it that way.  Since Mapnik did not provide it, they did it themselves.  Now
 newer software is capable of doing automatically, so we should revisit the
 issue.

 Should I simply open a ticket on Mapnik's issue tracker, to request that in
 Korea, labels be rendered as name:ko (name:en)?

 On a related note, and using Claudius's example:

 name=서울특별시
 name:el=Σεούλ
 name:en=Seoul
 name:ko_rm=Seoulteukbyeolsi
 name:ru=Сеул

 Should we add name:ko=서울특별시?

 Otherwise, how do we know the Korean name for this city?

 Best wishes,

 Andrew

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Re: [OSM-talk] Transcription and 'internationalization' in place names

[Joseph Reeves]

I would love to be able to see a map with München (Munich) on it.  I am
going
there on vacation, but I don't speak German.  It would be handy to know the
real name for the places I only know the English name of.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Copying the idea of open.mapquest.co.uk would work, I think. The only
change I would like would be to have the local name before the English.

Brussels (Bruxelles - Brussel) does look messy, but Vienna (Wien) is
great.

Cheers, Joseph



On 16 April 2012 14:47, Andrew Errington a.erring...@lancaster.ac.ukwrote:

 On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 22:32:14 Maarten Deen wrote:
  On 2012-04-16 14:15, Joseph Reeves wrote:
   As for Korea:
  Should we add name:ko=서울특별시?
  
Otherwise, how do we know the Korean name for this city?
  
   It seems to me that adding name:ko is duplicating data. We should be
   using the local names for the name: tag, so the Korean can go in
   there. I would then have this rendered as name= (name:en=) on the
   osm.org [8] mapnik tiles. Such a system could presumably be used
   worldwide (although I'm sure there are plenty of people that would
   disagree). Having said that, adding name:ko= isn't going to hurt and
   may be of use to other data consumers.
 
  Hopefully with worldwide you mean only the countries that do not use
  latin script. It would not be pretty to see München (Munich) or worse:
  Bruxelles - Brussel (Brussels).

 I would love to be able to see a map with München (Munich) on it.  I am
 going
 there on vacation, but I don't speak German.  It would be handy to know the
 real name for the places I only know the English name of.

 I'm not advocating this for 'Standard' map tiles at osm.org, but some
 feature
 from some map service whereby I can get a nice map labelled with one or two
 languages of my choice.

 Best wishes,

 Andrew

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Re: [OSM-talk] Transcription and 'internationalization' in place names

[Joseph Reeves]

Have you checked the data and history on the actual nodes? Often you're
seeing the results of an edit war - the names keep changing but low zoom
level tiles aren't updated often enough to keep up. Syria, Egypt, etc,
suffer the same.

Cheers, Joseph
On 16 Apr 2012 20:03, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote:

 On Mon, 2012-04-16 at 14:26 +0200, Claudius wrote:
  Am 16.04.2012 11:36, Andrew Errington:
   On Mon, April 16, 2012 16:54, Maarten Deen wrote:
   snip
   Wouldn't it be an idea to tag the name in the characterset of the
   country and have the renderer decide whether or not to render a
 name:en tag
   with the name tag? I don't know if the renderingrules allow such a
   decision to make. After all, the renderingrules decide how the map
 looks
   like, and I can understand if countries that do not use latin script
 want
   to render a latin-clean map. And: do not tag for the renderer.
 Entering
   names twice is tagging for the renderer.
  
  
   I'm glad this topic has come up.  I map heavily in Korea, and here the
   convention has been adopted to have name=* as Local name (English
 name).
 This is the same as Japan, but I don't know which came first.  In
   addition we have name:en=* (Latin script) and name:ko=* (Hangul script)
   and name:ko_rm=* (Hangul spelled phonetically, in Latin script).  Not
 all
   tags are present for all objects.
  
   I have gone along with this for a while, but it has always bothered me.
   On one hand, it's great as it actually makes the map useful (for me).
  You
   can even justify it by saying that the roadsigns are all printed in
 Hangul
   and English (they are) so maybe the name=* tag should have both.  On
 the
   other hand, it's a chore to enter things twice, it increases the
   opportunity for error, and really, it could be done programmatically.
  
   I think the root of the problem is that Mapnik didn't make a bilingual
 map
   at the start, so it was easier to get an army of humans to enter the
 data
   twice.  Now we have better renderers, with a good example from
 MapQuest,
   and this experiment here: http://toolserver.org/~osm/locale/
  
   I think the only problem is how does software determine which language
   name=* is in.  This should be the 'fallback' label that is rendered if
 no
   language is selected, or the selected language tag is missing.
  Actually,
   if you describe it in those terms then it doesn't matter.  If my
 selected
   language is Korean, then name:ko=* will be displayed, thus overriding
   name=*.  If name:ko=* is missing, then name=* will (or should) contain
   something useful.
  
   In Korea it is most useful (to Koreans and visitors) if we carry on as
 we
   do, but I would like a tool that automatically constructs
   name=name:ko+space+(+name:en+)
 
  You raised some very good points here, Andrew, but again you came back
  to the argument, that Mapnik (I guess you are referring to the map
  rendering at www.openstreetmap.org because MapQuest is also using Mapnik
  to render their open map ;) ) should be made a bilingual map. Still in
  the code OSM is not about the map at www.openstreetmap.org, but about
  the database behind it that hundreds of other projects use. e.g. if you
  create a Garmin map file out of the korean (or even japanese) data it
  seems to be rather harmful to have the Romanization in brackets behind
  the name. If you would want to create a Korean/Japanese only map you
  would have to programmatically remove the brackets if name:ko/name:jp is
  not present.
 
  It should actually be the other way around:
  In the ideal world we could (should?) strive for the location node for
  Seoul would contain this data:
  name=서울특별시
  name:el=Σεούλ
  name:en=Seoul
  name:ko_rm=Seoulteukbyeolsi
  name:ru=Сеул
 
  So a map renderer could easily recreate the current map by using name
  (name:en) as location name, or name (name:ko_rm) to highlight
  romanization to be helpful for korean users.
 
  We should really not follow the approach of making the map at
  www.openstreetmap.org perfect but instead the data behind it because
  that's where we're better than Google and Co.
 
  And btw. Google Maps sometimes even has nur the Japanese location names
  and no problem with that either. See the airport and surroundings here:
  http://g.co/maps/4vu3e
 
  Just take another look at the Mapquest rendering. For me it was an eye
  opener to emphasize on the data quality aspect and away from tagging for
  a nice www.openstreetmap.org
 
 http://www.openstreetmap.org does seem to be rendering multiple names
 for Welsh towns, separating them with a /. Hence giving the Welsh
 Jubilee city of St Asaph as Llanelwy/St Asaph. Strangely the Welsh name
 disappears at certain zoom levels, http://osm.org/go/eufQoa2--.

 It is using the tags name:cy and name:en. It works for a lot of places
 in Wales, buy not for Cardiff. Maybe it can only cope with 2 languages.

 Phil


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Re: [OSM-talk] Transcription and internationalization in place names

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Claudius, list,

Thanks for bringing this up as it is by far my favourite OSM issue; there
can't be many examples of such widespread bad mapping practices. I've done
remote mapping in the Middle East and North Africa which is the background
I use to base my opinions on. I'm not aware of the issues in the Far East,
but I imagine that there are a number of similarities with examples from
the Arabic world.

Thanks also for pointing out the example of open.mapquest.org - that looks
like a really good way of handling this. I've previously said that more
localised maps would help, but presumably they'd consume much more
resources than simply tweaking the osm.org home page. Perhaps a bug
reported should be submitted requesting that all names are rendered as the
contents of name= whilst followed by name:en= (or int_name=) in brackets
when different.

Cheers, Joseph



On 15 April 2012 16:47, Claudius claudiu...@gmx.de wrote:

 I'd like to bring this topic on the table once more as I've recently
 worked on that in the middle east area.
 The challenge is that there are some mappers that add the English name to
 place names so that they (and other international visitors) can read the
 map at www.openstreetmap.org better. Most of the time this derives from
 the misconception that with OpenStreetMap you are editing a map, while in
 fact we are editing a database of geographic features and maps are just one
 representation of the data.

 The rule about place names the majority of OSM participants have agreed on
 is Use the name that is being used on the ground. Adding English as an
 easy to get latinized transliteraion is most of the time not following this
 rule.
 Usually the best way to convince those users that it's unnecessary work
 and actually degrading the data quality is by simply pointing them towards
 a different map representation of the same data. MapQuest did a great job
 of showing an English map view (showing name:en as place name) while
 preserving local names (shown in brackets): http://open.mapquest.com/

 I'd like to use my mail to raise awareness of this topic:
 Please talk to you fellow mappers if you see them adding English names in
 an act of goodwill to help other visitors of www.openstreetmap.org

 I'd also like to get some feedback especially from east asian countries
 (especially looking towards the japanese and korean communities here) if
 they want to revise their naming strategy/guideline to only have the local
 name in the name-tag and the transliteration in name:en

 Also in Algeria, Libya and some other countries of the Maghreb the double
 name tagging has recently gained momentum, probably due to some remote
 mappers that cannot read arabic script and wanted to be able to read the
 map. Still the primary langauge in all those countries remains Arabic
 written in the arabic script.

 I'm also aware that there are several examples where there are multiple
 primary languages in the same region: Belgium, Chad, Cameroon, etc. - Of
 course for these areas multilangual/multi script naming in the name-tag is
 applicable.

 Claudius


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Re: [OSM-talk] Truth about media hype in Microsoft lending big support and big dollars to OSM ?

[Joseph Reeves]

Presumably there's a cost of the bandwidth used and of maintaining the
servers; running anything approaching a SLA is going to cost.

Microsoft get access to the OSM data the same as anyone else, but they also
get their images vectorised. I don't know if OSM data, or vector data from
their rasters, is of use to them but its a potential bonus. Certainly if I
had a load of images of the world I'd donate them and benefit from some
crowd sourced digitisation.

Joseph
On 4 Apr 2012 19:23, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:

 Matthias Meißer wrote:

 Am 03.04.2012 19:14, schrieb yvecai:

 Le 03/04/2012 18:56, Richard Fairhurst a écrit :

 Pieren wrote:

 we have a media hype (or media excitement ?) about Microsoft
 investing big dollars in OSM. [...]
 Where is the truth here ?

 I'm sure we'd all like to know!

 I'm not aware of any announcement being made or (say) any formal contact
 this year between Microsoft and OSMF.

 As I've seen no new informations in these articles, I'm inclined to
 think it's just a hype about the strategy war between the big 3 or
 something like that.


 Same for me here. I monitor different media streams for OSM press works
 and it
 looked very much like a hype. No investigation and nobody checked the
 informations, just copy :(
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/OpenStreetMap_in_the_**mediahttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap_in_the_media

 But nevertheless I would agree that Bing gave us a real boost in mapping
 countryside etc.


 But it's not actually costing them anything? They would be putting the
 images up anyway, so THEY are the only ones who gain by getting back free
 vectorized data?

 --
 Lester Caine - G8HFL
 -
 Contact - 
 http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=**contacthttp://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
 L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
 EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
 Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
 Firebird - 
 http://www.firebirdsql.org/**index.phphttp://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php

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Re: [OSM-talk] iPhoto for iOS Not Using Google Maps

[Joseph Reeves]

From the original I saw on your overlay, Les Madriles appears to be the German:

http://gsp2.apple.com/tile?api=1style=slideshowlayers=defaultlang=de_DEz=7x=62y=48v=9

Swapping to en_US looks more familiar

http://gsp2.apple.com/tile?api=1style=slideshowlayers=defaultlang=en_USz=7x=62y=48v=9

Having said that, you can type in any old rubbish language parameter
and it comes up with Los Madriles:

http://gsp2.apple.com/tile?api=1style=slideshowlayers=defaultlang=_z=7x=62y=48v=9

Presumably that's the default spelling it returns if you request a
language that Apple doesn't provide tiles for.

Cheers, Joseph



2012/3/8 Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es:
 On Jueves, 8 de Marzo de 2012 01:41:22 andrzej zaborowski escribió:
 Great :) -- Madrid is rendered with a name worthy of a map prank,
 although it would fit loc_name too.

 I'm guessing that's an old toponym, now deleted from OSM. But we Madrileños
 refer to our city as that sometimes :-)


 --
 --
 Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es i...@geonerd.org

 http://ivan.sanchezortega.es
 MSN:i...@void.sanchezortega.es
 Jabber:ivansanc...@jabber.org ; ivansanc...@kdetalk.net
 IRC: ivansanchez @ OFTC  freenode

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Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM

[Joseph Reeves]

An interesting article on the value (or issues) of FourSquare
generated spatial data:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/06/spatial_junk/

Joseph




On 5 March 2012 11:22, Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com wrote:
 In their blog they made some cryptic comments about helping OSM with data...
 No idea what they actually meant though, could just be helping direct users
 to OSM, could be employing people to map stuff... who knows.

 Bob

 if (*ra4 != 0xffc78948) { return false; }


 On 5 Mar 2012, at 11:17, Joseph Reeves wrote:

 I think they're just using tiles for mapping background on their
 (not-mobile) website. No api, no POIs, no data sharing, just raster
 images. Having said that, I can't remember reading anything proper
 about this and appear to have learnt it all through osmosis.

 Cheers, Joseph



 On 5 March 2012 10:59, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:

 mmm i want to know deeply about POI inside 4SQ and OSM, will 4SQ share with

 OSM database for POI?


 F



 On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote:


 Would it be possible for Foursquare to let us use the information users

 type in (restaurant names, addresses)? There is a lot of good information

 there.


 Janko


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Re: [OSM-talk] FourSquare and OSM

[Joseph Reeves]

Or will the intermediary service provided by MapBox etc somehow protect them?

MapQuest is updated minutely? So changes to the database are going to
be felt by FourSquare, Nestoria, et al pretty immediately. This is
pretty off topic, of course...

Presumably the good folks behind the license change will say that any
short-term damage to OSM caused by removing data is outweighed by the
benefits of a new license; the ODbL even, possibly, makes data
exchange with these 3rd parties more secure in the long term.

That's the optimistic way of putting it. You could be a pessimist and
say that OSM data is already hugely inconsistent and full of holes,
missing roads and imaginary data.

I guess it just depends on how you judge the contents of your glass
(or mailing list).

Cheers, Joseph





On 6 March 2012 22:15, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
 So at the risk of pointing out the obvious: aren't we about to start
 purging data from decliners? Last I heard, we're begin[ning] the
 process of database re-building and hope to complete by 2012-04-01.
 Are we about to start inflicting maps with big holes, missing roads
 etc on these big sites that have finally made the decision to start
 trusting OSM with their core business?

 Or will the intermediary service provided by MapBox etc somehow protect them?

 Discuss.

 Steve

 On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 6:14 AM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
 hi all

 we have great news that foursquare using OSM now

 anyone working with Fq? which API that osm using ?

 the ruby one?

 F

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Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Bing high resolution coverage extended over Syria

[Joseph Reeves]

 Geofabrik are also providing hourly data extracts and Garmin files:

https://twitter.com/#!/geofabrik/status/167888233416499200

I don't know how much of a ground concern mapping is, but this is a really
good thing to see.

Presumably Homs looks very different now compared to when those aerial
images were produced - has anyone seen any post-bombardment imagery?

All best, Joseph




On 11 February 2012 10:31, Jean-Guilhem Cailton j...@arkemie.com wrote:

 Hi,

 Thanks to its recent extension, Bing high resolution coverage now
 includes, among others, the city of Homs, whose street network is very
 partially mapped in OSM :

 http://ousm.fr/syria/?zoom=14lat=34.72957lon=36.7164layers=00B000TT

 Thank you Bing !

 Best wishes,

 Jean-Guilhem

 --
 gpg 0x5939EAE2


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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features

[Joseph Reeves]

 Is this the sort of thing you had in mind
 (http://maps3.org.uk/tiles/historic_layers.html)?

That looks great, thanks for sharing!

Joseph



On 15 January 2012 22:44, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:


 This requires a renderer / display set up that allows the use to select
 what features you want and filter out those you don't.

  The rendrering engine will require significant enhancement to support
 selectable layers unless I have missed something.



 Hi Mick,

 Is this the sort of thing you had in mind
 (http://maps3.org.uk/tiles/historic_layers.html)?

 It has a VERY crude filtering of prehistoric / Roman / medieval and 'modern'
 historic features, and an even rougher rendering of those features.   (to do
 it properly we will need either civlization/period tags, or start/end dates,
 and spend a lot more time on the presentation than I have!).

 But, there is a layer switcher on the right hand side of the map where you
 can select a base map (I used the standard OSM rendering and cycle map,
 because I thought that if we do it for real, we would want a topographic
 base layer more than a motorway network?)
 Each layer is rendered a bit differently so you can see them change when you
 switch them on and off.

 Note that I have not rendered much of the map - it will get very slow as you
 zoom in, because it will start to render the map on demand, and my database
 seems a bit slow for some reason

 There are obviously lots of improvements - at the very least a link to an
 editor like we have on the brewmap, so you can correct things that are
 tagged incorrectly, then different icons for different types of features
 within the layers (they are all the same at the moment).

 There is a 'how it works' section at the bottom of the map if you are
 curious about how I have done it.

 Hope that helps.


 Graham.
 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM downtime as protest against SOPA?

[Joseph Reeves]

Wikipedia, I imagine, has a large following of users that are unaware
of SOPA; their blackout will introduce the issue to an enormous number
of Internet users. I don't think an OSM blackout would have a similar
effect.

Many map nerds would no doubt be inconvenienced, however.

Joseph





2012/1/16 Matthias Meißer dig...@arcor.de:
 Hi,

 first of all, sorry for bringing political discussions to the community, as
 I always understand OSM as a political neutral space (we do creating maps,
 nothing else).
 But some of you might noticed that _Wikipedia will make a downtime_ at
 Wednesday as a form of protest against the Stop Piracy Act (SOPA)
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOPA

 As this law endangers the creation and exchange of free material, too
 ('shutdown OSM/jamendo/.../ as it seems that they copied my property!'), I
 would like to ask, if we might support the wikipedia action?

 I have no idea, if this could be technicaly done by the Admins, or what kind
 of protest (complete shutdown, serving demo tiles, locking database, ... a
 banner) would be accepted by the most of us. I just like to notify you, and
 maybe start a discussion.

 thanks
 Matthias
 (user:!i!)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features

[Joseph Reeves]

the main thing that is missing from it is a list of 'cultures' or 
'civilizations' that we can all use.

In the UK at least there's a defined and well used list of periods
provided by the Archaeology Data Service:

http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/Imagebank/period.jsf

In short, is something like:

Palaeolithic 500 000 - 10 000 BC
Mesolithic 10,000 - 4,000 BC
Neolithic 4000 - 2200 BC
Bronze Age 2500 - 700 BC
Iron Age 800 BC - 43 AD
Roman 43 - 410 AD
Early Medieval 410 - 1066 AD
Medieval 1066 - 1540 AD
Post Medieval 1540 - 1901 AD
Modern 1901 - present

For the data to be useful for a wider community than OSM, I would
strongly suggest following these dates and terms. It's what i use on
my grey literature site, for example:

http://library.thehumanjourney.net/view/subjects/UK-periods.html

Please be aware that 'cultures' or 'civilizations' don't really work
in British archaeology (or anywhere in Europe) any more - we've given
up on Culture Historical interpretations of the past. I guess it's
only really a matter of semantics, but dealing with periods rather
than civilisations will make it much easier to draw in data from the
outside world.

Also please note that the above list is for the UK only. On the
continent, for example, different things happened and happened at
different times. It probably wouldn't be possible to get a coherent
tagging scheme across Europe that made any sense; there's simply not a
consistent European past that could be represented in such a way.

Cheers, Joseph












On 2 January 2012 11:12, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:



 On 2 January 2012 09:49, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote:

 I've been using historic=roman_road but will be switching to historic=road, 
 culture=roman as per an excellent tagging schema proposed by Francesco de 
 Virgilio at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Fradeve11/prove2 , as 
 this will enable a pan-European approach.


 I hadn't seen that proposal - I agree it would be good to have a world-wide 
 scheme, but I am concerned that we could potentially end up with different 
 tagging schemes here...and I know how unpopular it would be to 'correct' them 
 electronically in the future

 As far as I can tell there is:

 The proposed culture= (no wiki page for it yet other 
 than http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Fradeve11/prove2
 historic:civilization= 
 - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:historic:civilization

 I started a wiki page to record how British historical sites are tagged 
 (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Historic_Britain) - It would 
 be good to update that with the proposal - the main thing that is missing 
 from it is a list of 'cultures' or 'civilizations' that we can all use.

 Neither culture nor historic:civilization are that well used, but there are 
 more historic:civilization entries (see http://taginfo.osm.org).

 What I intend to do with my map is to have different layers for different 
 cultures/civilizations so that you can see all roman features, or all cold 
 war relics etc.

 Regards


 Graham.
 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Major problem with the map

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi,

I was having similar issues this morning - fixed it by clearing my
browser cache. Presumably the updates to the site (new layer options)
included some behind the scenes changes that clash with anything
you've got cached already. Anyway, a crtl + shift + r cleared it for
me.

Cheers, Joseph



On 25 November 2011 16:19,  dies38...@mypacks.net wrote:
 The map at www.openstreetmap.org is not rendering and exhibits odd behavior 
 including (as described by the 'second' I got on the observation):

 1. Always starting at lat 0 lon 0 at zoomlevel 1
 2. No new options, no data option
 3. Click on search results --- Backk to 1

 Not quite sure where to report this issue so it can be addressed with all due 
 speed ... but I thought here would not be a bad place to start.

 Regards - OSM user ceyockey

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Re: [OSM-talk] Installing your own tileserver on Ubuntu

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Kai,

The default Ram cache size is 800Mb. You can increase it with the -C
parameter of osm2pgsql. But given that your netbook probably doesn't
have that much ram, I am not sure increasing that option is such a good
idea.

-C only has an effect in slim mode, unless I'm wrong? As I was hoping
to append data to my db, I'm running osm2pgsql in full fat mode.
Thanks for the --cache-strategy tip - I got the import working with
the sparse option. It seems to be working surprisingly quickly in
fact.

Of course, as you said, getting the data into the db is one thing, but
actually using it is another matter.  The netbook is now rendering
tiles for a large strip across Europe - this often takes a while to
get tiles created, but I think it should work for what I need it for.
If the load gets too high I can always empty the db and add extracts
as I need them. Before that, however, I think I'll try and find any
database optimisations that might exist.

Thanks again for all this,

Cheers, Joseph



On 18 October 2011 18:34, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 10/18/2011 10:48 AM, Joseph Reeves wrote:
 It is possible that one could catch the errors in slim mode and then only 
 do the expensive diff processing for those node / ways that are duplicate 
 in the extracts.

 Interesting, although I think this is beyond the limits of my OSM
 skills.

 Yes, that comment was more directed at my self that I should look into
 that, or if any other dev of osm2pgsql gets to it first... ;-)

  Unfortunately Austria seems to be beyond the capabilities of
 my netbook; an import without --slim gives the error:

 Node cache size is too small to fit all nodes. Please increase cache size

 Presumably a slim import would help, but this would then fail because
 of overlapping ways... I can't Google up anyone suffering that error
 message before; I guess nobody else is trying to get a number of
 European countries into a db on their netbook...

 You will likely not find that error message on google yet, as if I am
 not mistaken, I only commited that error message two days ago.

 The default Ram cache size is 800Mb. You can increase it with the -C
 parameter of osm2pgsql. But given that your netbook probably doesn't
 have that much ram, I am not sure increasing that option is such a good
 idea.

 Given that you can't fit Austria into 800Mb, I suspect you are using the
 32bit version of osm2pgsql. It defaults to the old (for extracts
 inefficient) cache allocation strategy. You can try using the
 --cache-strategy option and set it to either optimized or sparse. That
 should be more efficient for extracts than the default method. In the
 optimized option, you might run out of virtual memory on 32 bit though.

 But you might have troubles with Austria on a netbook anyway, as it
 might still be too resource intense.

 Kai


 Thanks again,

 Joseph




 On 18 October 2011 16:59, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 10/18/11 9:31 AM, Joseph Reeves wrote:

 Hi Kai,

 The pre-rendered tiles are stored in /var/lib/mod_tile/default. You can
 simply delete those files and they will automatically get rerendered the
 next time you view them.

 Great, thanks, that's working great.

 I have seen that you appear to need to restart renderd (sudo
 /etc/init.d/renderd restart) after a new import, as it otherwise appears
 to
 still use old data (It is kind of odd, so I might have the wrong
 impression
 here).

 Sorry, I should've said in my previous email - I was assuming this to
 be the case. Out of interest, is there any log output from renderd?

 sudo tail -f /var/log/syslog

 should give you some output of what renderd is doing, including which tiles
 it is rendering and when it has completed them

 I'm running this on a netbook so tiles take a while to be produced;

 I'd imagine a netbook might struggle a little with rendering tiles on the
 fly... ;-) But eventually they should be done.

  it
 would be interesting to see some logs so that I know it's all working
 as I expect.

 However, what you are trying to do is as far as I know not supported by
 osm2pgsql. Although it seems to be a much requested feature, I don't
 think
 osm2pgsql currently handles importing of multiple extracts. The --append
 option doesn't really do what you would think it does.

 I tried the append flag and got an error about an already existing way
 - it would be good if osm2pgsql would simply ignore any ways that
 already exist in the database. I re-ran osm2pgsql without the --slim
 option, however, and the import was successful. I currently have
 Bulgaria and Romania working on my netbook :)

 Interesting that the non-slim mode works with appending multiple extracts.

 It is possible that one could catch the errors in slim mode and then only do
 the expensive diff processing for those node / ways that are duplicate in
 the extracts.

 Am trying to re-import Turkey now, then onwards with bits of Europe!
 If it all works out do you mind if I do a bit of wiki fiddling

Re: [OSM-talk] Installing your own tileserver on Ubuntu

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi,

Thanks for that, loads of good info in there!

Playing with indexes, especially partial indexes on the ways columns,
reflecting the where condition of the most expensive queries may help.

I'm told that the easiest way to start on this is with pgAdmin, which
raises a very basic question - what's the username and password I can
connect to the gis database with? I presume it's listed somewhere in
the setup scripts, but I've not had the chance to go through them.

Cheers, Joseph




On 19 October 2011 14:57, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 On 10/19/2011 05:01 AM, Joseph Reeves wrote:
 Hi Kai,

 The default Ram cache size is 800Mb. You can increase it with the -C
 parameter of osm2pgsql. But given that your netbook probably doesn't
 have that much ram, I am not sure increasing that option is such a good
 idea.

 -C only has an effect in slim mode, unless I'm wrong?

 That also changed with the commit a few days ago. As again for smaller
 extracts, who have a sparse distribution of node IDs, the cache was very
 inefficient, I reused the improved node cache from the --slim mode.
 Perhaps unfortunately, that also incorporated the limit and effect of
 the -C parameter. On 64 bit machines at least, you can simply set the -C
 parameter very high as it only reserves virtual memory. Only the amount
 actually used will result in physical ram allocation. It is perhaps a
 little bit more problematic on 32 bit Operating Systems though, as
 virtual memory is also fairly limited.

 Setting a very high -C parameter and --cache-strategy chunked basically
 gets you back to the old behavior though.

  As I was hoping
 to append data to my db, I'm running osm2pgsql in full fat mode.
 Thanks for the --cache-strategy tip - I got the import working with
 the sparse option. It seems to be working surprisingly quickly in
 fact.

 Fat mode definitely has its advantage in speed, perhaps especially on
 slow disk systems like a netbook. This is perhaps why it was a bit
 unfortunate that non-slim mode previously was (and for ways and
 relations it still is) very wasteful with ram for extracts.


 Of course, as you said, getting the data into the db is one thing, but
 actually using it is another matter.  The netbook is now rendering
 tiles for a large strip across Europe - this often takes a while to
 get tiles created, but I think it should work for what I need it for.
 If the load gets too high I can always empty the db and add extracts
 as I need them. Before that, however, I think I'll try and find any
 database optimisations that might exist.

 Playing with indexes, especially partial indexes on the ways columns,
 reflecting the where condition of the most expensive queries may help.

 If you do come up with good optimizations, it may be good to collect
 them somewhere to build up a knowledge base for optimization tips.

 Kai


 Thanks again for all this,

 Cheers, Joseph



 On 18 October 2011 18:34, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 10/18/2011 10:48 AM, Joseph Reeves wrote:
 It is possible that one could catch the errors in slim mode and then only 
 do the expensive diff processing for those node / ways that are 
 duplicate in the extracts.

 Interesting, although I think this is beyond the limits of my OSM
 skills.

 Yes, that comment was more directed at my self that I should look into
 that, or if any other dev of osm2pgsql gets to it first... ;-)

  Unfortunately Austria seems to be beyond the capabilities of
 my netbook; an import without --slim gives the error:

 Node cache size is too small to fit all nodes. Please increase cache size

 Presumably a slim import would help, but this would then fail because
 of overlapping ways... I can't Google up anyone suffering that error
 message before; I guess nobody else is trying to get a number of
 European countries into a db on their netbook...

 You will likely not find that error message on google yet, as if I am
 not mistaken, I only commited that error message two days ago.

 The default Ram cache size is 800Mb. You can increase it with the -C
 parameter of osm2pgsql. But given that your netbook probably doesn't
 have that much ram, I am not sure increasing that option is such a good
 idea.

 Given that you can't fit Austria into 800Mb, I suspect you are using the
 32bit version of osm2pgsql. It defaults to the old (for extracts
 inefficient) cache allocation strategy. You can try using the
 --cache-strategy option and set it to either optimized or sparse. That
 should be more efficient for extracts than the default method. In the
 optimized option, you might run out of virtual memory on 32 bit though.

 But you might have troubles with Austria on a netbook anyway, as it
 might still be too resource intense.

 Kai


 Thanks again,

 Joseph




 On 18 October 2011 16:59, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 10/18/11 9:31 AM, Joseph Reeves wrote:

 Hi Kai,

 The pre-rendered tiles are stored in /var/lib/mod_tile/default. You can
 simply delete

Re: [OSM-talk] Installing your own tileserver on Ubuntu

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Parveen,

After the database import did you run sudo /etc/init.d/renderd restart ?

Do that then visit the localhost location again, at which point you
should be able to see the rendering begin. On my netbook I can run top
to see renderd using 100%+

I've followed the instructions through and they worked perfectly.

Cheers, Joseph




On 18 October 2011 09:38, Parveen Arora m...@parveenarora.in wrote:

 On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:36 AM, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:

  They are placed in my PPA on launchpad at
  https://launchpad.net/~kakrueger/+archive/openstreetmap/ There you can
  also download the individual packages, e.g.
  https://launchpad.net/~kakrueger/+archive/openstreetmap/+files/libapache2-mod-tile_0.4-9%7Enatty1_amd64.deb

 I have edited the resource file manually and then was able to download
 the  libapache2-mod-tile

 But to process the .pbf file I have to log in into the postgres using
 following commmands
 $sudo -s
 #su postgres

 After logging into postgres file processed otherwise there was some
 Indentation error.


 After Installation of the package I am able to see the map of mapnik
 and when I change it to local tiles, Nothing is there.
 I doubt that if any tiles are generating at backend or not, after
 loading of file in the database I have restarted the daemon.
 But have not noticed any tile generation activity.

 Please let me know what o do?

 Thank You.





 --
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 www.parveenarora.in
 E-Mail: m...@parveenarora.in

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Re: [OSM-talk] Installing your own tileserver on Ubuntu

[Joseph Reeves]

hi Kai,

Thanks a lot for this, it seems to be working well for me. I've got a
question, although I accept that it might be a osm2pgsql query.

I followed the instructions and imported Turkey into my db - this
worked fine and I was happily rendering maps of the country. Since
then I have used the same osm2pgsql command to import Bulgaria and
Romania, but this seems to be causing issues:

At the moment, only northern Romania is rendering as expected - for
Turkey and Bulgaria I'm only seeing either pre-rendered tiles or new
tiles based on nothing more than the coastline data. As far as I can
tell, the only data currently in my db is for northern Romania.

How best to check this? Is there a way to remove the pre-rendered
tiles and create new ones from the contents of my db? Is there a
different command I should be running to append data to an existing
database?

Thanks again, Joseph




On 9 October 2011 23:13, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello everyone,

 with the recent need to crack down on tile scrapers and apps to not over
 tax the main OSM tileservers and hosting, there has been a lot of talk
 trying to convince people to set up their own tileserver.

 Although that is of cause by far not the only hurdle to set up your own
 tileserver, one barrier is perhaps the perceived complicated procedure
 to set up all the elements necessary. Although there are a number of
 decent howtos already available on the wiki (perhaps even to many, each
 containing slightly different advice...), it is perhaps still more
 effort than people want to get into.

 In the hope to make this process even simpler, I have created a bunch of
 packages for Ubuntu containing all the necessary software, as well as
 glue packages to deal with the necessary setup and interaction between
 the different components.

 The packages aren't perfect yet, but hopefully sufficiently helpful
 already to be of use to others who are interested in playing around with
 their own tileserver.

 A simple standard tileserver can now be setup in 5 commands in a terminal:

 sudo add-apt-repository ppa:kakrueger/openstreetmap
 sudo apt-get install libapache2-mod-tile
 wget http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/north-america/us/colorado.osm.pbf
 osm2pgsql -C 1500 colorado.osm.pbf
 sudo /etc/init.d/renderd restart

 At the end you should have a working tileserver based on mod_tile and
 renderd with the standerd OSM-mapnik stylesheet.

 You can test it out by opening the installed slippymap at
 http://localhost/osm/slippymap.html

 You will of cause want to replace the above lines with the downloading
 and importing of an extract with the extract you care about.

 Although for smaller areas hardware requirements aren't too bad, they
 quickly go up beyond what can be handled by a standard desktop computer.
 My rough guestimate of what a typical desktop / laptop can handle is
 about an extract of 100 - 300 Mb (no more than an hours worth of
 import). This covers most of the US and German states, as well as many
 of the other less densely mapped countries.

 If you are more serious about your tileserver, you will need to tune the
 various configuration settings, but just to play around and for personal
 use, the default settings should work reasonable.

 More information can be found on yet another wiki-page... (
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ubuntu_tile_server )

 Any comments or feedback are welcome,

 Kai

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Re: [OSM-talk] Installing your own tileserver on Ubuntu

[Joseph Reeves]

Ah, ok, so the -a flag should give me what I want. Apologies for the
noise, I'll rtfm next time :)

Cheers all, Joseph



On 18 October 2011 15:26, Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.com wrote:
 hi Kai,

 Thanks a lot for this, it seems to be working well for me. I've got a
 question, although I accept that it might be a osm2pgsql query.

 I followed the instructions and imported Turkey into my db - this
 worked fine and I was happily rendering maps of the country. Since
 then I have used the same osm2pgsql command to import Bulgaria and
 Romania, but this seems to be causing issues:

 At the moment, only northern Romania is rendering as expected - for
 Turkey and Bulgaria I'm only seeing either pre-rendered tiles or new
 tiles based on nothing more than the coastline data. As far as I can
 tell, the only data currently in my db is for northern Romania.

 How best to check this? Is there a way to remove the pre-rendered
 tiles and create new ones from the contents of my db? Is there a
 different command I should be running to append data to an existing
 database?

 Thanks again, Joseph




 On 9 October 2011 23:13, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello everyone,

 with the recent need to crack down on tile scrapers and apps to not over
 tax the main OSM tileservers and hosting, there has been a lot of talk
 trying to convince people to set up their own tileserver.

 Although that is of cause by far not the only hurdle to set up your own
 tileserver, one barrier is perhaps the perceived complicated procedure
 to set up all the elements necessary. Although there are a number of
 decent howtos already available on the wiki (perhaps even to many, each
 containing slightly different advice...), it is perhaps still more
 effort than people want to get into.

 In the hope to make this process even simpler, I have created a bunch of
 packages for Ubuntu containing all the necessary software, as well as
 glue packages to deal with the necessary setup and interaction between
 the different components.

 The packages aren't perfect yet, but hopefully sufficiently helpful
 already to be of use to others who are interested in playing around with
 their own tileserver.

 A simple standard tileserver can now be setup in 5 commands in a terminal:

 sudo add-apt-repository ppa:kakrueger/openstreetmap
 sudo apt-get install libapache2-mod-tile
 wget http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/north-america/us/colorado.osm.pbf
 osm2pgsql -C 1500 colorado.osm.pbf
 sudo /etc/init.d/renderd restart

 At the end you should have a working tileserver based on mod_tile and
 renderd with the standerd OSM-mapnik stylesheet.

 You can test it out by opening the installed slippymap at
 http://localhost/osm/slippymap.html

 You will of cause want to replace the above lines with the downloading
 and importing of an extract with the extract you care about.

 Although for smaller areas hardware requirements aren't too bad, they
 quickly go up beyond what can be handled by a standard desktop computer.
 My rough guestimate of what a typical desktop / laptop can handle is
 about an extract of 100 - 300 Mb (no more than an hours worth of
 import). This covers most of the US and German states, as well as many
 of the other less densely mapped countries.

 If you are more serious about your tileserver, you will need to tune the
 various configuration settings, but just to play around and for personal
 use, the default settings should work reasonable.

 More information can be found on yet another wiki-page... (
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ubuntu_tile_server )

 Any comments or feedback are welcome,

 Kai

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Re: [OSM-talk] Installing your own tileserver on Ubuntu

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Kai,

 The pre-rendered tiles are stored in /var/lib/mod_tile/default. You can
 simply delete those files and they will automatically get rerendered the
 next time you view them.

Great, thanks, that's working great.

 I have seen that you appear to need to restart renderd (sudo
 /etc/init.d/renderd restart) after a new import, as it otherwise appears to
 still use old data (It is kind of odd, so I might have the wrong impression
 here).

Sorry, I should've said in my previous email - I was assuming this to
be the case. Out of interest, is there any log output from renderd?
I'm running this on a netbook so tiles take a while to be produced; it
would be interesting to see some logs so that I know it's all working
as I expect.

 However, what you are trying to do is as far as I know not supported by
 osm2pgsql. Although it seems to be a much requested feature, I don't think
 osm2pgsql currently handles importing of multiple extracts. The --append
 option doesn't really do what you would think it does.

I tried the append flag and got an error about an already existing way
- it would be good if osm2pgsql would simply ignore any ways that
already exist in the database. I re-ran osm2pgsql without the --slim
option, however, and the import was successful. I currently have
Bulgaria and Romania working on my netbook :)

Am trying to re-import Turkey now, then onwards with bits of Europe!
If it all works out do you mind if I do a bit of wiki fiddling on your
instructions?

Thanks again,

Joseph



On 18 October 2011 16:06, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 On 10/18/11 8:26 AM, Joseph Reeves wrote:

 hi Kai,

 Thanks a lot for this, it seems to be working well for me. I've got a
 question, although I accept that it might be a osm2pgsql query.

 I followed the instructions and imported Turkey into my db - this
 worked fine and I was happily rendering maps of the country. Since
 then I have used the same osm2pgsql command to import Bulgaria and
 Romania, but this seems to be causing issues:

 At the moment, only northern Romania is rendering as expected - for
 Turkey and Bulgaria I'm only seeing either pre-rendered tiles or new
 tiles based on nothing more than the coastline data. As far as I can
 tell, the only data currently in my db is for northern Romania.

 How best to check this? Is there a way to remove the pre-rendered
 tiles and create new ones from the contents of my db? Is there a
 different command I should be running to append data to an existing
 database?

 The pre-rendered tiles are stored in /var/lib/mod_tile/default. You can
 simply delete those files and they will automatically get rerendered the
 next time you view them. You can also touch the planet import time stamp
 file (unfortunately I can't remember the exact location and name of the file
 atm). mod_tile checks the time stamp of the rendered tiles. If it is older
 than the time stamp of the planet import, it will assume the data has
 changed and attempt to rerender the tiles.

 I have seen that you appear to need to restart renderd (sudo
 /etc/init.d/renderd restart) after a new import, as it otherwise appears to
 still use old data (It is kind of odd, so I might have the wrong impression
 here).

 However, what you are trying to do is as far as I know not supported by
 osm2pgsql. Although it seems to be a much requested feature, I don't think
 osm2pgsql currently handles importing of multiple extracts. The --append
 option doesn't really do what you would think it does.

 Osm2pgsql can currently either import a fresh extract, deleting the previous
 copy of your db, or it can append diff files. It can't append a second
 extract.

 What you could potentially do is to change the extract file into a change
 file by changing the xml header and inserting a modified tag at the right
 place. However diff processing is currently one or two orders of magnitude
 slower than initial import mode, so doing that is likely to be prohibitively
 expensive.

 Kai


 Thanks again, Joseph




 On 9 October 2011 23:13, Kai Kruegerkakrue...@gmail.com  wrote:

 Hello everyone,

 with the recent need to crack down on tile scrapers and apps to not over
 tax the main OSM tileservers and hosting, there has been a lot of talk
 trying to convince people to set up their own tileserver.

 Although that is of cause by far not the only hurdle to set up your own
 tileserver, one barrier is perhaps the perceived complicated procedure
 to set up all the elements necessary. Although there are a number of
 decent howtos already available on the wiki (perhaps even to many, each
 containing slightly different advice...), it is perhaps still more
 effort than people want to get into.

 In the hope to make this process even simpler, I have created a bunch of
 packages for Ubuntu containing all the necessary software, as well as
 glue packages to deal with the necessary setup and interaction between
 the different components.

 The packages aren't perfect yet

Re: [OSM-talk] Installing your own tileserver on Ubuntu

[Joseph Reeves]

It is possible that one could catch the errors in slim mode and then only do 
the expensive diff processing for those node / ways that are duplicate in the 
extracts.

Interesting, although I think this is beyond the limits of my OSM
skills. Unfortunately Austria seems to be beyond the capabilities of
my netbook; an import without --slim gives the error:

Node cache size is too small to fit all nodes. Please increase cache size

Presumably a slim import would help, but this would then fail because
of overlapping ways... I can't Google up anyone suffering that error
message before; I guess nobody else is trying to get a number of
European countries into a db on their netbook...

Thanks again,

Joseph




On 18 October 2011 16:59, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 10/18/11 9:31 AM, Joseph Reeves wrote:

 Hi Kai,

 The pre-rendered tiles are stored in /var/lib/mod_tile/default. You can
 simply delete those files and they will automatically get rerendered the
 next time you view them.

 Great, thanks, that's working great.

 I have seen that you appear to need to restart renderd (sudo
 /etc/init.d/renderd restart) after a new import, as it otherwise appears
 to
 still use old data (It is kind of odd, so I might have the wrong
 impression
 here).

 Sorry, I should've said in my previous email - I was assuming this to
 be the case. Out of interest, is there any log output from renderd?

 sudo tail -f /var/log/syslog

 should give you some output of what renderd is doing, including which tiles
 it is rendering and when it has completed them

 I'm running this on a netbook so tiles take a while to be produced;

 I'd imagine a netbook might struggle a little with rendering tiles on the
 fly... ;-) But eventually they should be done.

  it
 would be interesting to see some logs so that I know it's all working
 as I expect.

 However, what you are trying to do is as far as I know not supported by
 osm2pgsql. Although it seems to be a much requested feature, I don't
 think
 osm2pgsql currently handles importing of multiple extracts. The --append
 option doesn't really do what you would think it does.

 I tried the append flag and got an error about an already existing way
 - it would be good if osm2pgsql would simply ignore any ways that
 already exist in the database. I re-ran osm2pgsql without the --slim
 option, however, and the import was successful. I currently have
 Bulgaria and Romania working on my netbook :)

 Interesting that the non-slim mode works with appending multiple extracts.

 It is possible that one could catch the errors in slim mode and then only do
 the expensive diff processing for those node / ways that are duplicate in
 the extracts.

 Am trying to re-import Turkey now, then onwards with bits of Europe!
 If it all works out do you mind if I do a bit of wiki fiddling on your
 instructions?

 No go ahead and improve the instructions

 Thanks again,

 Joseph




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Re: [OSM-talk] GPX files upload to OSM problem

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Hameed,

I've just downloaded one of your files and uploaded it without any trouble:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/IknowJoseph/traces/1082838

I then went to edit the area in Potlach:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=34.4116lon=70.488zoom=17

And clicked GPS Data - My Tracks. I loaded the test gpx file and it showed
as a thin blue line on the map. It seems to be drawn below the existing OSM
data, however, so it's impossible to see at time.

It seems to be working as expected, for that single track at least.

Where you trying to display where you'd been on top of OSM base mapping? In
that case I'd suggest you look at Prune GPS:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/prune-gps/

Cheers, Joseph



On 14 August 2011 12:38, Hameed Tasal hameedta...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 We are a group of editors editing OpenStreetMap in Afghanistan. We use Sony
 Ericsson Xperia smart phones to record gpx tracks. The application that we
 use to record these tracks is called 'Open GPS Tracker'. When we try to
 upload these tracks to OpenStreetMap, the tracks won't show up on the map.
 When we save these files as .KMZ then they open with Google Earth with no
 problem.

 Attached are a few sample files both in gpx and kmz formats that have the
 issue.

 If anyone can help us with this problem, it will be a great help to our
 editors team here in the eastern Afghanistan.

 Thank you very much in advance.

 --
 ~Hameed

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Re: [OSM-talk] Use of official names Re: shortened names

[Joseph Reeves]

4. although the tag name is used by Mapnik and others, please don't fulfill
the tag name for the renderers

Likewise, my favourite annoyance tagging a place name with the English and
the Arabic [1]:


   - *name*: Tripoli طرابلس


Some might argue that this will render nicely for those of us who don't read
Arabic, but it's completely wrong. The name:en tag exists for a reason - put
the English in there and have the name: as طرابلس

The Egypt coverage [2] is vastly superior to the Libyan OSM for this reason
alone.

Cheers, Joseph

[1] for example, http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/27564957
[2] for example, http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/271613766





On 28 July 2011 14:32, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:

 1. It was decided a long time ago that abbreviations are not used in tag
 name
 2. the US contributors can decide to do it differently than the rest of the
 world for their country but they will have to explain why software
 developers should develop special code for them
 3. the tag official_name has been created for official country names, not
 for streets or locations with alternative names (for that, we have alt_name)
 4. although the tag name is used by Mapnik and others, please don't fulfill
 the tag name for the renderers

 Pieren

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Re: [OSM-talk] Use of official names Re: shortened names

[Joseph Reeves]

Bilingual or localised renderings are great - exactly what should be
happening - but stuffing a load of different names in the same field is a
horrible practice. Additional localised renderings would presumably help,
but I don't know who's going to stump up the servers and bandwidth for that.

Cheers, Joseph




On 28 July 2011 17:17, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de wrote:

 Joseph Reeves writes:

 Some might argue that this will render nicely for those of us who don't
 read
 Arabic, but it's completely wrong. The name:en tag exists for a reason -
 put
 the English in there and have the name: as طرابلس


 some places render it better. e.g this bilingual rendering requested by
 someone from the HOT
 http://libya.osm-tools.org/
 Stephan

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

[Joseph Reeves]

But that's just tagging for the renderer (or reader). If my sat nav can't
pronounce st as saint I'd blame the software, not the data.

On 27 Jul 2011 20:38, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 27/07/2011 18:23, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:
 ...but the point is that here the name seems to be St Albans so why
 should we be the only ones to expand it?


 So that satnavs can more easily work out how to pronounce it?

 --
 Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

[Joseph Reeves]

It's all about the placement:

St Albans pronounced Saint Albans
Albans St pronounced Albans Street

Look at this road: http://osm.org/go/eutDvk@QV-

Should we tag it:

name: Magdalen Road
pronounced: More-da-lin Road

?

That's ridiculous if you ask me. If you're making sat nav software for a
market (the UK, France, America, etc.) you should be able to work out these
things yourself.

Cheers, Joseph





On 28 July 2011 00:55, Ian ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:04:13 PM UTC-5, Joseph Reeves wrote:

 But that's just tagging for the renderer (or reader). If my sat nav can't
 pronounce st as saint I'd blame the software, not the data.

 Should the satnav pronounce st. as saint or street?

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Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Fw: Disaster Preparedness Project

[Joseph Reeves]

OT, I know, but I would love to see the same thing available as Kindle
friendly pdf (or native ebook format) download. I recently drove
around France for a weekend wishing that my atlas was Open, offline
and on my ebook reader.

Cheers, Joseph



On 7 June 2011 07:51, Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com wrote:
 Essentially what I'm looking for is the ability to produce a Thomas-Guide
 style maps book where a city is broken into printable pages (e.g. A6) and at
 the back would be an index of streets with corresponding page and x/y axis
 information.
 As mentioned before it would be ideal if this could be automated so that all
 it would need is a city and it would produce the pages. Anybody interested
 in helping create such a system?
 -Samuel
 On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Dane Springmeyer d...@dbsgeo.com wrote:

 Samuel,
 It seems to me like rendering the actual pages would be easier (than
 actually rendering a large image, then chopping). This should also give
 better results because the scales of things like text and lines would look
 better.
 So, the way I would approach this would be to determine the size and
 extents of each map for each page (ideally automatically). Then render each
 one with Mapnik. So, your ingredients would be a width and height in pixels,
 and bounding box for each page. Then write a python script to loop over
 every page and render a map using an OSM stylesheet.
 If you don't have python scripts skills then we can think of alternatives,
 but that would be my first recommendation. Mike Migurski, also author of
 safety maps, has done this with Mapnik for printed bike maps of SF, so he
 could likely advise.
 On Jun 6, 2011, at 3:03 PM, Mikel Maron wrote:

 Folks, what did we have in place to produce map books?


 Making mapbooks easier to script, via python, with Mapnik has long been a
 goal of mine.
 But I've not really gotten past proof of concept. One usecase is making a
 map of every feature in a dataset that meets some criteria. I wrote a
 script a while ago that demonstrates how to do that with mapnik by querying
 all countries over a given population and them rendering a map for each,
 while painting a special outline over their border. Code is
 here: http://mapnik-utils.googlecode.com/svn/example_code/map_sequences/ and
 an animated gif to demonstrate what is done is here:
 http://dbsgeo.com/tmp/mapnik_animated.gif

 Can Mapsomatic easily be modified for different formats/scales?

 It can be done but I've found that hacking around in MapOsMatic requires a
 lot of patience and pretty high python/cairo skill level.

 http://www.safety-maps.org/ was a recent project to do something similar.
 I know the developers would be interested to hear more ideas how to make it
 useful.

 safety-maps are awesome.


 == Mikel Maron ==
 +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron

 - Forwarded Message 
 From: Richard Weait rich...@weait.com
 To: Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com
 Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 4:16:08 PM
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Disaster Preparedness Project

 On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  I'm designing a project whose goal is to prepare folks in my community
  for
  disasters. An essential part of any disaster kit are maps of the local
  area
  so that when electricity has gone out people can still navigate to
  specific
  areas of the city (for instance to get supplies or medical help).
  OpenStreetMap has comprehensive map data for my area (the San Francisco
  Bay
  Area) and I'd like to use the mapping data to create maps for the
  various
  cities to hand-out to residents. Since I'd need detailed (1:4800) of an
  entire city I haven't been able to use the export tool since it seems to
  have some built in limits to how large of an image it will generate
  (which
  makes sense). For Mountain View, CA the image size we'd want to generate
  is
  around 9409 x 11310 with a 1:4800 scale, in other words, very large. We
  would then cut this into smaller squares and print it out in a booklet
  with
  attribution to OpenStreetMap for the data and visuals.
  What's the best way for us to generate these detailed maps of the
  various
  cities?

 Well that sounds awesome.

 You might try downloading an extract of OSM data for that area.  You
 should be able to find an extract that deals with California, or the
 US West.  That way you don't have to deal with an entire planet full
 of data.  Then use Mapnik or one of the other rendering tools to
 generate your map.  You'll likely want to adjust the style sheet to
 make it just right for emergency awareness.

 There is a company in SF area experienced in printing high resolution
 maps from OSM data. Perhaps they'll do it for you for free since it is
 such a worthy project?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Three-dimensional aerial imagery

[Joseph Reeves]

 Basically, you put two images side by side, taken from slightly different
 angles. Look in the centre of the two images and defocus to a point beyond
 the page. Eventually you should see the image in full relief.

I've not heard of this approach before, but Stereoscopes are still
commonly used to produce a 3D image. Stereoscopic photography is still
very important, for example, in Archaeology / Heritage / lanuduse
characterisation. As far as I'm aware, there images are still being
produced (although they're a bit old fashioned now compared to
airborne LIDAR, etc), but I imagine they'd be pricey to get hold of.

In many places of the world (well, the UK at least) an enormous supply
of images will exist of buildings and landscapes that haven't changed
in a long old time; people have been using this technique since before
WWII, you just need to get access to some photos and decide on the
best Stereoscope - Potlatch workflow. That could be the most
interesting bit of the entire project...

Cheers, Joseph




On 14 May 2011 23:54, Richard Bullock rb...@cantab.net wrote:
 I saw this news story about how three-dimensional aerial photos, viewed
 with
 special glasses, make it easier to pick out structures on the ground.

 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13359064

 I wonder if any such 3-d imagery is available today?  It would seem to
 involve
 having two cameras a set distance apart.  If OSM ever charters a plane
 again, as
 was done for Stratford-upon-Avon, England, a few years back, it might be
 worth
 taking two cameras instead of one.  In the meantime I guess we'll wait for
 the
 3-d display Windows Phone to come out, with accompanying Bing Maps 3D.

 Stereoscopic images used to be very common and were, as far as I was aware,
 usually used to draw up contour lines for OS maps in the UK.

 You can see some examples here and on the next few pages
 http://rst.gsfc.nasa.gov/Sect11/Sect11_3.html

 They're a bit like magic eye images - and a lot of people should be able
 to see them without special glasses.

 Basically, you put two images side by side, taken from slightly different
 angles. Look in the centre of the two images and defocus to a point beyond
 the page. Eventually you should see the image in full relief.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Ipad and openstreetmap.org

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Floris,

Have you tried khtml.org? There are others too, I think.

Cheers, Joseph



On 11 May 2011 13:06, Floris Looijesteijn o...@floris.nu wrote:
 Hey,

 I was wondering if anyone is working on Ipad support for openstreetmap.org?
 Otherwise I will start working on it myself...

 At the moment you cannot scroll or zoom on our map.

 From memory I think the behaviour on Android is about the same.

 Greetings,
 Floris Looijesteijn

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Re: [OSM-talk] Some tiles not rendering?

[Joseph Reeves]

You can, I believe, right click on a tile and do view image (in
Firefox at least, it may be different in whatever browser you use).
This brings up a URL such as:

http://tile.openstreetmap.org/14/8149/5492.png

add /dirty to the end:

http://tile.openstreetmap.org/14/8149/5492.png/dirty

Request that and you get Tile submitted for rendering. Presumably
this needs an empty queue, however.

Cheers, Joseph




On 14 April 2011 16:34, Nakor nakor@gmail.com wrote:
 On 4/14/2011 11:15 AM, Peter Wendorff wrote:

 Hi Nakor.
 As far as I know the queue is the whole knowledge about tiles which have
 to be rerendered.
 If a tile has to be rerendered due to a changeset, that tile is submitted
 to the queue exactly once, at the time the queue management reads that
 changeset.
 If the queue is full at that time, it's in fact not added - and not added
 later, too.

 An empty queue at night does not help if there is no call to add your tile
 to the queue.

 regards
 Peter


 Peter,

 Thanks for the explanations. So that means that the particular tiles that
 got rejected because the queue was full could stay due to be rendered
 forever supposing there are no more changes made to the data they conatin?

 Thanks.

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Re: [OSM-talk] We Need to Stop Google's Exploitation of Open Communities

[Joseph Reeves]

Of course, its not about the license at all - if you appeal to fans of
licenses you'll attract nobody. Google will take potential users by
providing an awesome end product; the sort if thing everyone can appreciate.
Make some awesome mapping products and you'll attract plenty of contributors
and you'll be able to leave licensing talk to the nerds, presumably just as
Google plans.

Cheers, Joseph
On 11 Apr 2011 20:07, Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de wrote:
 On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 10:41:42AM -0500, Ian Dees wrote:
 When Google turns Google MapMaker on in the US and Europe*, it will
become
 much harder to recruit new mappers to our community (that is already
quite
 small). Being passive about this issue means that OSM and its more-open
data
 will eventually be drowned out by Google's much greater marketing might.

 -Ian

 * At Google's MapMaker User's summit last week someone said that this
would
 happen (at least in the US) soon.

 Its all about freedom - and teaching the people about it.

 The stricter our new license is, the less difference people will be able
 to see when telling them.

 This is why i am proposing BSD all the time - its the biggest difference
 one can get from anything all others do. No restrictions - period.

 Flo
 --
 Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
 „Für eine ausgewogene Energiepolitik über das Jahr 2020 hinaus ist die
 Nutzung von Atomenergie eine Brückentechnologie und unverzichtbar. Ein
 Ausstieg in zehn Jahren, wie noch unter der rot-grünen Regierung
 beschlossen, kommt für die nationale Energieversorgung zu abrupt.“
 Angela Merkel CDU 30.8.2009
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Re: [OSM-talk] We Need to Stop Google's Exploitation of Open Communities

[Joseph Reeves]

 5. OSM is simply not successful enough in Africa to cover the
 tremendous opportunities presented in points 3 and 4. Lack of cheap
 Internet access on the African continent should take most of the
 blame. But it doesn't help that so many OSM apps are not available in
 Africa (Skobbler, ORS, OSM-3D etc).


To argue the other side of the coin, however, OSM is already the most
successful mapping platform in Africa; Ivory Coast, for example, is
best catered for by OpenStreetMap. Leaving Africa, OSM has been
fantastically successful in Haiti - if you want maps of Haiti, you go
to, without exception, OpenStreetMap. In Haiti, for example, local
people are being trained in how to map for OpenStreetMap; this is
people in the developing world mapping for themselves.

The important thing with Ivory Coast and Haiti is that OpenStreetMap
has provided an amazing resource that you can't get from elsewhere,
certainly not from GMM. That's one of the products that I was alluding
to in my previous email: spatial data. The problem is that this
amazing work on the OSM front was done by a small a group of people
working under the HOT banner; Google has endless more resources in
this respect.

OSM can provide the most amazing mapping resources for the entire
planet, but we lack Google's money and person-power to get it done as
much as could be. The problem with welcoming Google into the world of
user-contributed spatial-data is that you dilute our available
resources even further by encouraging potential users to lock up their
data with the big G.

I couldn't agree more with Mikel's original point; if we want to
provide mapping resources to the wider world and to the benefit of the
most people, we should turn our backs on Google and give our support
to the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team.

Cheers, Joseph




On 11 April 2011 20:12, Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote:
 Let's not loose sight of a few facts / trends w.r.t. sub Saharan Africa:
 1. The continent is not experiencing the same demographic dividend as
 other emerging economies. Birthrates will remain high for at least
 another 50 years. AIDS is decimating the economically active
 population.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_catastrophe

 2. African governments are simply not building the required infrastructure.

 3. The mobile phone has increase productivity in Africa more than all
 previous inventions combined. Farmers no longer need to make slow and
 expensive journeys to find out what price the market will pay for
 their crops. Migrant workers can send money to their families over
 long distances.

 4. A dismally small percentage of Africans can read maps. But
 augmented reality-type applications will completely change that.

 5. OSM is simply not successful enough in Africa to cover the
 tremendous opportunities presented in points 3 and 4. Lack of cheap
 Internet access on the African continent should take most of the
 blame. But it doesn't help that so many OSM apps are not available in
 Africa (Skobbler, ORS, OSM-3D etc).

 So I'm really glad about Google's efforts.

 --
 Note that if you use Google to search for Mapping party, the top hit
 is the the OSM wiki. So it's public knowledge that we invented and
 perfected the concept.

 Regards,
 Nic

 On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote:
 http://brainoff.com/weblog/2011/04/11/1635

 == Mikel Maron ==
 +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron

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Re: [OSM-talk] odbl

[Joseph Reeves]

 No, just that your more likely to get an answer about the legal side of
 things in legal-talk.

But this is the problem; the legal side of things is the central
issue to OpenStreetMap at the moment. You can't simply try and
sideline a difficult issue by describing it as legal.
*Open*StreetMap is defined by its license, but there are plenty of
people who want to change the license, and therefore the core of the
project, without explaining in layman's terms what this means.

I signed up to contribute to a map with a specific license; changing
the license down the line isn't a legal matter, it's a core user
issue. This is something that many in the licensing discussions have
failed to address, probably because it's difficult and it's easier to
say the legal mailing list is over there.

I've received emails from OSM contributors asking why I haven't
accepted the new license terms; I always reply saying that I would
consider it if it could be explained in a manner that didn't end in
trolling on the mailing lists. So far nobody has managed to do that.

In fairness, I don't want to get spammed on the talk list with
trolling (Anthony?) remarks about the license change, but saying that
people can't ask questions about it *at all* is just a lazy attempt to
try and ignore the defining feature of OSM. There's a balance that
needs to be struck, but people should understand that legal issues are
core to OSM.

If you want to contribute to a project and not ask questions about the
legal issues concerning data you produce, you might as well sign up
for Google Map Maker; I thought that OSM had this licensing issue at
the heart of what we did, but I could be wrong.

Cheers, Joseph




On 5 March 2011 23:29, Robert Naylor rob...@pobice.co.uk wrote:
 On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 23:10:38 -, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 So basically you are saying that it is not possible to explain it in
 layman's terms.  Thank you for your input.

 No, just that your more likely to get an answer about the legal side of
 things in legal-talk.

 --
 Robert

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Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Re: collateral damage (was: What the license change is going to do to the map)

[Joseph Reeves]

Regardless of what you believe, Google have said that they don't want
their imagery traced into OSM and OSM have said that they don't want
Google derived data in the database.

You polluted the database with data nobody wants and now have been
trolling the mailing lists ever since. That doesn't make you a victim
of some OSMF conspiracy and it certainly doesn't help the otherwise
complicated enough discussion of the license change.



On 10 February 2011 14:24, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
 On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 10 February 2011 14:01, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:

 Which, by the way, I denied.  Tracing aerials does not involve copying data.

 Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't.

 It definitely doesn't.  There's no maybe about it.

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Re: [OSM-talk] What the license change is going to do to the map

[Joseph Reeves]

But that's got nothing to do with the licensing change - that's an
issue of you ripping off Google Maps.

Please everyone, lets not feed the troll.




On 9 February 2011 17:26, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
 On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Al Haraka alhar...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
 http://www.sharedmap.org/bna.html
 http://www.sharedmap.org/before.PNG
 http://www.sharedmap.org/after.PNG

 I enjoy a thread that is well on its way to a flame war as much as the
 next guy, but do you mind telling us the methodology used to achieve
 this result?  Last time it was discussed, there was a lot of debate on
 how to properly tag a node, way, or relation as license compatible or
 not because this is a multi-user system.  I am curious: how did you
 reach your conclusions?

 The board voted to delete my contributions, and this is the before and after.

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Re: [OSM-talk] We are Here --

[Joseph Reeves]

We've got our example here:

http://mapdata.thehumanjourney.net/office.php

Cheers, Joseph



On 6 January 2011 16:44, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
 Hi

 Does anyone have any good examples of static/slippy OSM maps that are used
 by companies on their websites?

 I've recently met a couple of bosses of small businesses who were
 redesigning their websites  I tried to promote OSM over a more famous
 alternative.

 I pointed them in the direction of the wiki examples, but I think a couple
 of real world setups would help convince them. Ones with marker overlays or
 'we are here' arrows would be even better.


 Cheers
 Dave F.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

[Joseph Reeves]

OpenStreetMap is still a wiki though? So if I find a future travel
destination missing from OSM, but covered by Bing, where's the harm in
tracing it? In many parts of the world there is no such thing as
local mappers and even if I did trace a load of crap into the
database, anyone else can come along  and, providing they've got a
better data source than I, fix it.

We should all map place we know nothing about. Period. If nothing else
it may provide a vital spark in developing local interests and
efforts. It's a wiki, it doesn't need to be perfect first time.

Joseph




On 8 December 2010 11:49, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote:
 On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 22:37 +1100, Elizabeth Dodd wrote:
 On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:35:31 +0530
 Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote:

  you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more
 about.
  Period.

 So how about Haiti? Colombia?

 exceptional circumstances sometimes need to break rules. But in normal
 course of events, it is not polite to irritate local mappers. Say in
 most of India, satellite imagery can be upto 3 years old - and in the
 past three years there has been a huge construction boom
 --
 regards
 Kenneth Gonsalves


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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

[Joseph Reeves]

 By the way, I don't think the intention is to suggest that it is not ok to
 trace an area and then visit it to correct errors and add detail. It is when
 you are not going to do that, it is frowned upon. I can understand why. I
 have cancelled a trip to survey some lonely country lanes after someone else
 remotely traced them. Had I gone, the map would have gained POIs instead of
 just a line. But it scarcely seemed worth the trip for what might have been
 a couple of postboxes and pub, without having the satisfaction of mapping
 the roads, too, especially when there is so much else left to map. But maybe
 I'm being silly.

Sorry, but I find this to be a really negative attitude; there's loads
of people that want to draw a line on the map for the first time, but
less who want to tidy existing streets, or just add POIs. What would
be wrong, for example, with collecting the first GPS trace of a road?
Arguably this is much more important than the first tracing of the
same road from Bing.

An example from my recent past: We display OSM imagery on our website
to show people where our offices are. We have one office that was in a
town poorly covered by OSM. When the OS Open imagery became available
I traced chunks of the town into OSM to improve the map and our
website. It may not have been perfect, but it was better than nothing.
I then received a miserable email asking me to stop because a local
mapper was planning to get on his bike and map the town, but now
wasn't going to because he'd only be fixing my mistakes. Whilst I'm
sorry I took away the thrill this user feels in being the first to
draw on a map, I don't really care what he was planning to do; I
wanted the map updating as soon as possible and there existed a way of
doing it from home. Likewise, his pompous attitude about fixing my
mistakes didn't endear me to him; what's wrong with fixing mistakes if
they've been entered by someone doing the best they could? What's
wrong with getting some GPS traces to enhance / support what's already
there? What's wrong with sourcing data from multiple locations?

Tracing imagery may not be perfect, but it should be a start, not a
reason to avoid going out.

Cheers, Joseph




On 8 December 2010 22:46, davespod osmli...@dellams.fastmail.fm wrote:

 Steve Bennett wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:33 AM, davespod osmli...@dellams.fastmail.fm
 wrote:
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners_Guide_1.1
 
  See item 3.*

 Very interesting. That line was added by Ben in January 2009, and
 that sentence hasn't been touched since.

 Bah! You're right! I'm sure I read this in one of the very first wiki pages
 I read, but obviously not this one. I have certainly been aware of the
 principle since the outset, and I got all my early information from the wiki
 (I did not read the mailing lists for several months, and good thing too - I
 would probably have been scared off!).

 By the way, I don't think the intention is to suggest that it is not ok to
 trace an area and then visit it to correct errors and add detail. It is when
 you are not going to do that, it is frowned upon. I can understand why. I
 have cancelled a trip to survey some lonely country lanes after someone else
 remotely traced them. Had I gone, the map would have gained POIs instead of
 just a line. But it scarcely seemed worth the trip for what might have been
 a couple of postboxes and pub, without having the satisfaction of mapping
 the roads, too, especially when there is so much else left to map. But maybe
 I'm being silly.

 Good luck with trying to reach a consensus. It's a while since I saw one of
 those on these lists :)

 Cheers

 David
 --
 View this message in context: 
 http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Bing-maps-is-misplaced-tp5811671p5817117.html
 Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [OSM-talk] When satnavs go bad....

[Joseph Reeves]

Just a guess: http://osm.org/go/0Cy6e0oD--

Joseph



On 29 September 2010 15:52, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote:

 You need to dial a helicopter to get you off the mountain


 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1315762/White-van-man-airlifted-safety-satnav-sends-mountain.html

  I wonder how the OSM data looks on this mountain pass...



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Re: [OSM-talk] From the register

[Joseph Reeves]

The app has made it to /. too:

http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/09/28/235223/Almost-Satnav-For-Cycling

We just need some comments now on the ease of contributing data to
this fine project :-)



On 28 September 2010 22:50, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote:
 http://www.reghardware.com/2010/09/28/bike_hub_cycle_app/

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM book in English published

[Joseph Reeves]

I've not seen the book, but I have bought books before on subjects
that were covered by free resources online. Books, I'm sure, are a
good idea:

1: There is a lot of free stuff available out there on the Internet -
a printed book, by an author or three, provides a handy reference to
the most relevant material. This is something you can pick up and use.
The wiki, on the other hand, has a lot of good stuff, but also a great
deal of cruft. If it's not on the wiki, you may find yourself managing
reams of bookmarks to the thing you need. A book can provide an edited
relief to this.

2: A book provides a historiography: It says something about the
opinions of the people that wrote it. If you value the opinions of the
authors, you should consider buying the book.

3: A printed book on a subject that is available online will
invariably teach you something new about the subject. The thing it
teaches you may be online, for free, already, but I would bet money
that there's something new in the book that you haven't seen.

4: Books can go into University libraries and onto GIS course reading
lists. A big one, I would imagine, for OSM.

Perhaps we should ask why, in this Internet age, do we need newpapers,
TV, radio and pubs? Can't all these things be replaced by Google News,
YouTube, Spotify and IRC?

Books are a massively positive thing - they demonstrate a healthy and
productive OSM ecosystem and a growth in adoption. More books please!

Cheers, Joseph



On 16 September 2010 00:38, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
  On 15/09/2010 19:39, Steve Chilton wrote:

 OpenStreetMap: Using, and Contributing to, the Free World Map
 (Paperback, in English) by Ramm/Topf/Chilton will be available in 5 days.
 Pre-order at discount http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9781906860110/


 Apologies for living in the real world, but why do I need a highly priced
 printed book for information that is, or should be, available to all *free*
 of charge on line (apart from internet charges, obviously) for a *free* 
 *open* crowd-sourcing project such as OSM?

 Regards
 Dave F.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Is there an OSM on Android with hand gesture zoom?

[Joseph Reeves]

gvSIG Mini Maps does it.



On 14 September 2010 16:07, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
  Hi

 I've had a look through most of the android list on the wiki

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Android

 for a map that uses pinch movements to zoom but most appear to use +/- to do
 it.

 Does anybody know of one I could try?

 Cheers
 Dave F.

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Re: [OSM-talk] iPad app

[Joseph Reeves]

 Any idea how to solve this problem?

Put a touchpad on the back of the tablet: http://www.notionink.in/

I'm also told that Notion Ink will consider giving you a free Adam if
you develop an app that needs testing on it. Android phones also
outsell Apple powered handhelds at the moment; if tablets continue
this trend, the Notion Ink could be the perfect OSM device.


Cheers, Joseph




On 20 August 2010 20:12, bernhard zwischenbrugger b...@datenkueche.com wrote:
 hi

 I keep thinking an editing app for the 3G / wifi iPad would be awesome.
 It's always on the network, GPS and compass are built in.

 It would be a sweet surveying device, but would have to be super fault
 tolerant in doing things like waiting for the network.



 Collecting gpx files would be easy.

 But editing with a touchscreen is not easy.
 How to set a point using a finger?
 If you put the finger to the screen, you don't see where the point is set.
 The finger covers the point and it can't be exact.

 Any idea how to solve this problem?

 Bernhard


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Re: [OSM-talk] Death by a thousand nitpicks

[Joseph Reeves]

Let's try not to subject OSM data users to death by a thousand
self-appointed license nitpickers.

Mapquest, Microsoft and now Nearmap; whenever anybody tries to do
anything with OSM, there's always a license / attribution backlash.
It's really sad, but hopefully largely ignored outside the world of
the talk mailing list.

Cheers, Joseph




2010/8/4 Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es:
 On 04/08/2010 15:34, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:

 Let's try not to subject OSM data users to death by a thousand
 self-appointed license nitpickers.

 Self-appointed license nitpickers. Geez, I do love that quote. Can I use
 from time to time?

 --
 Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es

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Re: [OSM-talk] correcting/helping inexperienced mappers

[Joseph Reeves]

 - show them keepright.ipax.at

And http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/



On 2 July 2010 12:41, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote:
 On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 07:30:11 -0400, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com
 wrote:
 On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 there's a mapper near me, who's very active adding data.

 the problem is, he's making a lot of mistakes, such as roads not
 joining correctly at junctions, bridges drawn as a separate parallel
 line to the highway they should relate to, and other fairly
 unambiguous errors.

 In addition to the great suggestions from others:
 - point them at any local OSM meeting calendar / schedule.
 - start that local meeting calendar or schedule if required. Talking
 face to face and coaching while they use their computer is helpful.
 - offer a story about how you discovered that zooming in and using
 use thin lines in PL1 helped you avoid broken junctions.

 - recruit them in your local militant no to Potlatch! group ;)
 - show them keepright.ipax.at

 Maarten


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Re: [OSM-talk] WolframAlpha uses OpenStreetMap data

[Joseph Reeves]

 It's somewhat discouraging, though, that *every time* anyone uses OSM,
 we instantly react with this:

+1

It's really good to see OSM being used for something that isn't a pet
project of someone in this community.

It was great to go to WolframAlpha, type in my home town and see a map
that I had contributed to. I thought the level of attribution was
fine. More of this please! Jumping on users of the data with the usual
how's the attribution? will ultimately do more harm than good.

Joseph




On 16 June 2010 17:29, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote:
 16.06.2010 17:47, Frank Sautter wrote:
 WolframAlpha uses OpenStreetMap data
 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Berlin

 That's great! It's a useful way to present OSM and it demonstrates
 growing popularity. If we want to reach a larger audience, we need to be
 present on search engines and the like - and as Google is unlikely to
 replace Google Maps with OSM anytime soon, so it's the smaller, more
 specialized services that might adopt OSM as their map link target first.

 It's somewhat discouraging, though, that *every time* anyone uses OSM,
 we instantly react with this:

 Is the license attribution they are using OK?

 Imo, it is. They name OSM as a data source directly below the image and
 let you access osm.org when you click on the image. They also give more
 detailled attribution (with the license abbreviation and another link to
 osm.org) on the Source information page. That's where all the other
 data sources are listed, too - considering the large number of sources,
 it's clearly resonable to have a separate page for sources.

 Technically, they don't provide the license URL directly (only
 indirectly through the link to OSM), but I don't consider that a
 relevant problem.

 Tobias Knerr

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Re: [OSM-talk] lazyweb: what linux-based wifi gps phone would you recommend

[Joseph Reeves]

 There is a lot of android phones to pick from, not sure how many allow
 root access or you can get root access with them.

True, but the question wasn't really that specific. I know, I'm being
pedantic, but the Desire is the nicest phone I've ever owned (and I
make a point of owning nice phones) and it just so happens to run
Linux (well, they forked the kernel, but it's close enough).

 Isn't the FreeRunner limited to GPRS or EDGE only? Might be an issue
 if you want 3G...

True again. You can plug in a USB 3G modem thanks to the awesome host
mode on the phone, but it might not be too ergonomic, and would eat
the battery even quicker than normal, but it's possible. Again,
without knowing what this phone is intended to be used for, we can't
really say too much...

Cheers, Joseph



On 17 May 2010 17:56, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17 May 2010 22:47, Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.com wrote:
 HTC Desire: if you want an iPhone without the ponce factor

 There is a lot of android phones to pick from, not sure how many allow
 root access or you can get root access with them.

 Openmoko FreeRunner: if you want to run Debian on this Linux-based
 wifi gps phone.

 Isn't the FreeRunner limited to GPRS or EDGE only? Might be an issue
 if you want 3G...

 Nokia also makes at least one linux based handset.


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Re: [OSM-talk] lazyweb: what linux-based wifi gps phone would you recommend

[Joseph Reeves]

HTC Desire: if you want an iPhone without the ponce factor

-or-

Openmoko FreeRunner: if you want to run Debian on this Linux-based
wifi gps phone.

Cheers, Joseph



On 17 May 2010 13:37, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Hi all,

 here is a question from one of my friends,

 what linux-based wifi gps phone would you recommend?

 any suggestions?

 thanks,
 mike

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Re: [OSM-talk] highway name render bug on map

[Joseph Reeves]

Both look fine on mine.

I'd guess it's a browser cache issue - if you're running firefox you
should try pressing Control + F5 on any zoom levels that don't look
right. That'll clear the cache and download the current tiles, like
the rest of us see when we click your links.

Cheers, Joseph




On 16 April 2010 13:02, colliar colliar4e...@aol.com wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA256

 Dirk-Lüder Kreie schrieb:
 colliar schrieb:
 Hi

 There is a bug on openstreetmap.org.
 Highway names are rendered in a lower zoom-level but not in high one.
 This is distracting because the names just disapear scrolling/zooming in.

 This is a Mapnik (rendering rules?) bug. Can you try with the osmarender
 layer (little (+) sign top right on the map)?

 It works today with Mapnik but with osmarender I have still the bug of the
 second example: (Schwarzwaldstr. living_street)

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=47.9868865013123layers=0B00FTFlon=7.86794900894165zoom=16
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=47.9872995615005layers=0B00FTFlon=7.86790877580643zoom=17
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

 iEYEAREIAAYFAkvIUd4ACgkQalWTFLzqsCvrSwCfaE0z9iz50I2B67oqY7PHTXYE
 a3wAn0LyLIrPpzonf1iVFMMZqT/V5Eb3
 =ztSi
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [OSM-talk] Cool 3D map of my home town

[Joseph Reeves]

There's an OSM isometric view of the Czech Republic here:

http://osm.kyblsoft.cz/3dmapa/?zoom=17lat=75.75078lon=14.31372layers=B

Makes me feel all a bit Sim City...

Cheers, Joseph




On 5 April 2010 14:41, Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.com wrote:
 This is not OpenStreetMap but it is really cool that I had to share it:
 http://karte.com.hr/osijek/

 I'll meet the people behind this project and see if we can cooperate
 together.

 This map is sure pretty ;)

 --
 pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt
 blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com
 linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće
 registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org.
 ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com


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Re: [OSM-talk] Some guidelines on Africover data?

[Joseph Reeves]

Great, thanks Grant,

Good to see that my line of thinking was pretty much the same as
yours; I just wanted to double check on consensus before inadvertently
wrecking anything.

Cheers, Joseph



On 30 March 2010 13:25, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote:
 Hi Joseph,

 I've been cleaning up some of the Africover, mostly bound within the
 DRC borders.

 The import seems to have been fairly messy.

 snip
 There is no source tag on the data that exists, only an AUTO_ID tag;
 an example way can be seen in 37424303 [3], although many more exist.
 I'm guessing that the AUTO_ID refers to a Africover reference system
 that has survived the import, whilst OSM specific tags need to be
 applied.

 Is there any reference available for telling what such ways should be
 tagged as? I'm worried that some may be rivers, in some cases possible
 dupes [4]. With a list to refer to, could ways such as this be tagged
 as highway:road or waterway:river, source:Africover when found?
 Leaving the AUTO_IDs would seem to be a good idea for now.


 I generally replace the AUTO_ID with a highway = road. The AUTO_ID is
 now worthless data to have in the OSM system, we have moved on from
 the original import. I'd say add source=Africover on the ways if you
 like. Best to strip it on nodes. The amount of GPS (GPX) data coverage
 is improving, especially in Southern Africa, so always compare. I
 always give existing data preference over Africover. If the Africover
 data feels VERY wrong, I think it is best to remove it rather than
 disrupt future (local) mapping efforts.

 Some of the ways also seem to be railways. Many Central  East African
 railways are being revived due to renewed interest in Africa's mineral
 wealth and Chinese interest.

 I tag with brain activated :-) Even Landsat helps. Some major African
 cities do have Yahoo! aerial imagery.

 Regards
  Grant


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Re: [OSM-talk] Automatically adding open wireless access points

[Joseph Reeves]

-1

I'd rather see collaboration with www.wigle.net rather then adding
Access Point information to the OSM DB.

After looking at things like the Dupe Nodes map and KeepRight, I'm
much more interested in cleaning up the existing dataset rather than
adding new stuff to it, especially if there are long running projects
out there (WiGLE has gone on since 2001) that are already taking the
strain.

Cheers, Joseph



On 25 March 2010 14:09, Gaz Davidson g...@bitplane.net wrote:
 Hi

 I've just got a Google Nexus One and was thinking about making an
 application for it. The first thing that came to mind was a minimalist
 app to add open WiFi networks as points of interest. I imagine it
 working something like this:

 The app continuously scans nearby WiFi access points. When one is
 found, it connects to it and posts the GPS position, accuracy, WiFi
 strength, (E)SSID, connection type and recent user movement to a
 script running on the web. If it doesn't get the correct response then
 that access point is blacklisted (avoiding paid but open networks
 which redirect to a login page). The data is released into the public
 domain (or maybe CC:SA?) and at some later time the positions of all
 known access points can be estimated and imported into OSM's database.
 Some clever rules could be used to avoid moving hotspots which have
 been moved manually, or to delete ones which haven't been seen in a
 long time.

 I know that there are already companies and communities doing this,
 but I can't find anyone with data that's free enough for my liking.
 There are also objections to adding wifi hotspots on the wiki, but no
 sensible ones as far as I can see. Open wireless access points are
 useful to me, I work away from home and often need to find the closest
 place with free wifi so I don't use all my data allowance when
 downloading large files.

 Thoughts, objections or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 Gaz

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Re: [OSM-talk] Creating custom OSM sites using the Mapnik OSM plugin?

[Joseph Reeves]

Hi Nick,

I would be very interested in such an application, especially for
generating custom tiles from an OSM file for use on mobile devices.

Cheers, Joseph



On 22 February 2010 12:43, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote:
 Not sure if talk's the best place for this, rather than dev, but I would
 guess so as it doesn't relate to OSM development itself.

 Anyway, some time ago I developed the OSM plugin for Mapnik, but due to
 other things haven't worked on it for a while. However I always thought
 that it would be useful in allowing people to generate OSM tiles on their
 own machine without the need for a PostGIS database. This has a number of
 benefits: firstly, someone who wanted to create their own OSM-based site
 wouldn't need to set up PostGIS, which can be a little tricky, and
 secondly (and I'm finding this is becoming quite a severe problem on my
 own Freemap site) the server resources required would be much less - the
 server could just serve static Mapnik tiles with no need for a database at
 all (though my own site still needs a database for the POIs). Users could
 render on their own machine and then upload. After the initial phase a GUI
 could be added to the application.

 Do people think this is a good idea? It's one of several possibilities
 that I'd like to work on, though I'd probably only do so if there's
 sufficient interest and/or I can't resolve the memory issues on my own
 site in other ways.

 Nick



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