[OSM-talk] Map wars: MapQuest, Microsoft and OSM vs Google
OSM in the news: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/microsofts-purchase-of-aol-patents-may-be-about-a-google-map-war/73489?tag=nl.e539 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Waze using OSM Data
Noam, I am curious to know why you don't simply give OSM attribution and carry on using the maps? PY On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:04 AM, Julio Costa Zambelli julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl wrote: Noam, Thank you for taking this as seriously as it needs, and solving the whole issue this fast. Regards, Julio Costa On 31 August 2010 17:35, Noam Bardin n...@waze.com wrote: Julio and Ignacio, thank you for bringing this to our attention. See our blog post at http://www.waze.com/blog/thanks-and-huge-apology-to-the-openstreetmap-community/ You guys were right and we took immediate action and deleted all potentially infringing data (see full story on the post). Thanks, Noam On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Julio Costa Zambelli julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl wrote: Is it me or they just decided to erase the whole thing? (I am noticing the new tiles at the lower zoom levels) On 31 August 2010 16:51, Julio Costa Zambelli julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl wrote: No. On 31 August 2010 16:22, IgnacioZ zigna...@gmail.com wrote: Just asking... are they sharing the new tracks? On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 5:09 PM, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: So what ? Gert -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Julio Costa Zambelli Verzonden: dinsdag 31 augustus 2010 18:11 Aan: OSM-talk Onderwerp: [OSM-talk] Waze using OSM Data Last night in the process of responding some comments to our GPS selling campaign (http://www.fayerwayer.com/2010/08/chile-compra-un-gps-barato-y-ayuda-a- openstreetmap/) (The goals being to buy a lot of Data Loggers and a server for the local community) I found out that Waze is using OSM for its map here in Chile and not giving any kind of attribution, is it the same anywhere else? Is it a known fact that they are using OSM Data and not giving any kind of credit to the community? Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Noam Bardin CEO Waze www.twitter.com/noamb11 US: 415-216-8719 Israel: +972-54-463-6406 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Mob (uk): +44(0) 7814 517 807 Mob (es): +34 651 597 610 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] $8000 low earth orbit satelite
How about we buy one of these as a Christmas present? http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/07/8000_diy_satellite_kit.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Heads up to all crisis mappers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/23/wave-threat-himalayan-lake-pakistan http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=36.3166809082031lon=74.7999000549316zoom=12 Is there anything we could do now - just in case? PY ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] new logo
it looks like clipart for a golf course. Is there an OSM identity design brief or a decision making process for designers to look at? PY On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote: On 13 May 2010 16:46, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: this could be a good SOTM talk too? +1 But aren't we in the 'process' of changing the OSMF logo? I think it's really important the two logos both share elements. A lot of OSMF logo entries seemed to ignore the OSM logo and so lost support from me, but perhaps, possibly, we need to be looking at redesigning both logos TOGETHER. the great project is misrepresented by a bloated and indistinct clipart Erm, I think that's what your logo proposal does/is. It looks like a clipart just for 'map' and maybe 'marker'. The current logo is representing that it is not just about the map, but the data you see behind it (the 0s and 1s). -- Gregory o...@livingwithdragons.com http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Mob (uk): +44(0) 7814 517 807 Mob (es): +34 651 597 610 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] DailyRoads Android App
Just stumbled upon this: http://www.dailyroads.com/voyager.php DailyRoads Voyager is a free application for Android-powered mobile phones, allowing for continuous video recording from vehicles. Essentially, the application acts as a video black box, recording everything, but only keeping what the user is really interested in. The user is usually the driver of a car, who can now quickly and safely capture video sequences of important road events. Typically, on an average journey of a few hours, only a handful of video files (5-10 minutes) are worth keeping. Additionally, photos can also be automatically captured at specific intervals. Video and photo files are timestamped, geotagged, and even uploaded according to the user's pre-set options. The accumulated files can be easily managed, played back, and grouped in selections. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Haiti Wiki Page Re-organizaiton; And Tasks and Ideas
I've started a list of Disaster-specific tags: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disaster-specific_tags My experience of natural disasters is quite limited - please add/remove/improve PY On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 1:04 AM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: The Haiti wiki page was getting unwieldy I think, so I re-organized into sub-pages with the hope that it's easier for someone to quickly find the information they need ... whether they are a map user, developer, and editor. Hopefully the overall structure makes sense. I fear I may have been a bit too severe ... if too much has moved into the sub-pages, feel free to move relevant explanation back to the main Haiti page. Or if the entire exercise has been in vain, and now too much detail is obscured, please feel free to try another re-organization. Want to also draw attention to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Tasks_and_Ideas This is a list of non-mapping tasks, both developmental and organizational, that need attention. Please add your ideas here, and work on things which seems useful and relevant to you. Thanks all Mikel == Mikel Maron == http://mapkibera.org/ +254 (0) 724899738 mi...@osmfoundation.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why PD is not better for business
Saying This would be a disaster is a bit hyperbolic. Sure, people who hate OSMapping and just want to use bulk imports will be very, very disappointed, and possibly even a bit upset that they actually have to go out into the real world and make maps. ;-) On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 8:54 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/11 Anthony o...@inbox.org: I see no evidence that that's the case. I don't think attempting to impose a contractual agreement on others without their consent is going to work, and I think there will be significant negative side-effects to such immoral behavior. I don't think immoral is the right word here, people are trying to come up with a suitable method to make sure everyone is playing fair, if the data is improved isn't it only fair that the entire community benefits from it, since whom ever improved it is obviously benefiting from OSM data in the first place. Some would see it as immoral to not give back such changes to the community. While I agree with ODBL in principal, the devil is always in the details and I'm still trying to find somewhere to obtain Australian legal advice as to how this may adversely effect the Australian OSM community. Plus I think OSM is going to lose a huge chunk of the database over this. This would be a disaster, but some have already mentioned having a read only database with non-ODBL data and then combining it on the tile server to get round this problem, the problem with that of course is how to remove non-ODBL data when ODBL data becomes available, since you wouldn't easily be able to edit or remove such data from a read only database. -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Fwd: Re: Why PD is not better for business
James, I am sure there are other examples of things that can't be easily mapped by humans walking, cycling and kayaking around (drains, underground tunnels and long lines of electricity pylons spring to mind). Luckily street maps don't usually depend on these things to be useful. PY On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 10:26 AM, James Livingston doc...@mac.com wrote: On 11/12/2009, at 8:02 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: so we don't need imported data? In most cases we don't need imported data, but it can be useful. For example rather than painstakingly crafting the entire coastline of Australia from a few GPS traces and a lot of imagery (much is relatively inaccessible), we can import it from someone's dataset and spend that large amount of time doing other things to improve OSM that we can't import data for. There are also some things where importing external datasets is the *only* way to get it into OSM. For example boundaries of areas that have no physical edge, just a (not necessarily straight) line on someone decided on at some point in time. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Fwd: Re: Why PD is not better for business
34,218 kilometres of beautiful, sunny coastline. ... sounds like you need to organise a huge mapping party... ... or maybe someone should set up a OSM-au holiday company - people in Northern Europe would pay good money to go on that sort of mapping adventure. PY On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:11 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/11 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: so we don't need imported data? -- Forwarded Message -- Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Why PD is not better for business Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 From: paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com To: Liz ed...@billiau.net Liz, The coastline I did back in the old days was between Hastings in Sussex and Folkestone in Kent. I did this by walking along the high tide mark with my GPS. Bits of coastline that were inaccessible (e.g: Harbors, cliffs and off shore islands) were done with the assistance of Yahoo Aerial photos. Ok Paul, when you have enough time and energy to map 34,218 kilometres (21,262 mi) of coastline (excluding all offshore islands) of Australia let us know, in the mean time we will be making do with the imported data we have. We also don't have access to aerial imagery except a small fraction of the 7.8 million sq km of land mass, although with your help/donations I'm sure we could possibly get some more. In short put your money where your mouth is. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Fwd: Re: Why PD is not better for business
But it is still a street map that we are making - administrative boundaries, top secret government installations, Al Qaeda training camps, water catchment areas and so on are fascinating (and probably great fun to map) but they are not necessarily part of a street map. PY On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:39 PM, paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com wrote: James, I am sure there are other examples of things that can't be easily mapped by humans walking, cycling and kayaking around (drains, underground tunnels and long lines of electricity pylons spring to mind). Luckily street maps don't usually depend on these things to be useful. And of course all the places people just aren't allowed to visit: private property, military areas, water catchments. And as has been pointed out, many boundaries don't have a physical manifestation that can be mapped. How on earth would you map council boundaries equipped just with a gps? National park boundaries? How would you name the tag the zillions of little bush tracks that have names but no signs? I'm not sure what proportion of the data we want can be collected using ground surveying with a gps alone, but it's far from 100%. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Fwd: Re: Why PD is not better for business
Dave, Clearly all those things, and much more, can and should be mapped. They can all be seen on the street and they all have public access. I agree: If it's a physical entity then it can be mapped. ++ What is less clear is what happens if changing the licence means we lose invisible administrative boundaries and data from areas where public access is difficult, restricted or non-existent. For example would be nice to include the boundaries of a UK National Park or a site of special scientific interest or (dare I say it) the coastline of Australia - but I don't think it is a disaster that threatens the future of the project if these things are removed because of a change in the licence. PY On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: paul youlten wrote: But it is still a street map that we are making - administrative boundaries, top secret government installations, Al Qaeda training camps, water catchment areas and so on are fascinating (and probably great fun to map) but they are not necessarily part of a street map. PY Paul I think you have a slightly narrow perspective of OSM. Yes, it has street in the title yes, it says /such as street maps /in the tag line, but it doesn't say 'only' street maps. Do you think parks, pubs, recycling centres etc shouldn't be mapped? If it's a physical entity then it can be mapped. Cheers Dave F. -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Fwd: Re: Why PD is not better for business
Peter, That sounds bad. Can you give us some examples? PY On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org wrote: 2009/12/11 paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com: Dave, Clearly all those things, and much more, can and should be mapped. They can all be seen on the street and they all have public access. I agree: If it's a physical entity then it can be mapped. ++ What is less clear is what happens if changing the licence means we lose invisible administrative boundaries and data from areas where public access is difficult, restricted or non-existent. For example would be nice to include the boundaries of a UK National Park or a site of special scientific interest or (dare I say it) the coastline of Australia - but I don't think it is a disaster that threatens the future of the project if these things are removed because of a change in the licence. PY From having seen it in quite a few Open Source projects, it would be a death sentence. Peter -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Fwd: Re: Why PD is not better for business
Oh, so you are talking about a fork in an open source project. Of course I realised that you didn't really mean death but I thought you might mean that Liz Dodds and Talk-au were going to cut my nodes off. ;-) I was under the impression that a certain amount of forking was encouraged in open source development. Better to have two happy projects with happy communities, each doing their own thing than one miserable one where all we do is talk hyperbollocks about how we are going to get ripped off and what a disaster it is going to be if data has to be deleted. PY On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org wrote: 2009/12/11 paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com: Peter, That sounds bad. Can you give us some examples? PY On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org wrote: 2009/12/11 paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com: Dave, Clearly all those things, and much more, can and should be mapped. They can all be seen on the street and they all have public access. I agree: If it's a physical entity then it can be mapped. ++ What is less clear is what happens if changing the licence means we lose invisible administrative boundaries and data from areas where public access is difficult, restricted or non-existent. For example would be nice to include the boundaries of a UK National Park or a site of special scientific interest or (dare I say it) the coastline of Australia - but I don't think it is a disaster that threatens the future of the project if these things are removed because of a change in the licence. PY From having seen it in quite a few Open Source projects, it would be a death sentence. Hmm Maybe these have not all died but the split did cause serious damage. X (You now have a choice of X.org and XFree86), The split caused a long halt in development and the original is hardly used now, only the branch Joomla/Mambo I'm sure there are others Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why PD is not better for business
Where does this Business Bad:OSM good binary come from? (I suspect the Germans ;-)) I don't understand how a business using OSM data for free and without thinking of the children (AKA giving back to the community) is bad for the project - every time we get ripped off we get a bigger audience, the more people that use the data the more more influential the map becomes and hence the greater the fun in contributing to it in the first place. It was meant to be fun - wasn't it? PY On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:52 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: If Steve were to say let's go PD, everone would howl: You're only doing this so that CloudMade can rip us off! If Steve says let's go ODbL, he is accused of only doing this because it keeps CloudMade in business by making things more difficult for Google. If Steve were to say license change? are you stupid? let's remain where we are! then people will say that he isn't interested in putting OSM on a safe legal footing because CloudMade has arranged themselves with the imperfect situation and he'd rather sacrifice the project's data than change a system that works for CloudMade. So, whichever way he does it it's wrong, isn't it? Not at all. I assume whatever way he's doing things is in the best interest of CloudMade, but I never said there was anything wrong with that. I think it would be ridiculous to expect Steve to actively work against his own business interests. The very most I would expect from him is to recuse himself from any official board vote. What he says on the mailing lists is completely up to him. Having said that, the ability to create non-free rendered maps is certainly something that will appeal to some businesses. Have you read the ridiculous terms of the CloudMade terms of service recently? I'd quote them to you, but after reading through them yesterday I've put the site on my block list. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why PD is not better for business
The Orange Telecom/Wikimedia Foundation business model is one that might work for OSM too. http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/Orange_and_Wikimedia_announce_partnership_April_2009 Orange pay the Wikimedia Foundation a significant amount of money each year - not for permission to use the Wikipedia data (which is, of course, free) but to use the Wikipedia Logo (i.e: Orange see attribution as adding value to their product). Clearly Orange also benefit from being seen as a supporter of the Wikipedia project. The Wikimedia Foundation are on target to raise $1.75m from this sort of partnership 2009-2010. Clearly wikipedia is bigger and better known than OSM but it was always held up as a model for OSM. This kind of financial support is much more likely to happen if we encourage and make it easy for businesses to use OSM data. PY On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, paul youlten wrote: I don't understand how a business using OSM data for free and without thinking of the children (AKA giving back to the community) is bad for the project - every time we get ripped off we get a bigger audience, the more people that use the data the more more influential the map becomes and hence the greater the fun in contributing to it in the first place. That's how I see it, but there are people whose fun seems to be reduced by the idea that anyone could be making money off their spare time activity. Probably the same people who, ten minutes later, diligently update their Facebook profile so that Facebook gets more advertising revenue ;-) Bye Frederik -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Rapid rendering with Javascript
Just stumbled on this page: http://nsf.free.fr/index.htm which uses the new lightweight gRaphael Javascript graphing library (http://g.raphaeljs.com) to render 5.5Mb of polygon data into a SVG map of France in less than a second (at least on FF3.0, Ubuntu 9.04). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Own aerial photos
Alpo Hassinen's site also links to http://www.smartplanes.se/ http://www.smartplanes.se/applications_e.html (in English) It isn't exactly clear how they make their mosaics - the white paper says The image data of a flight mission can be further processed using the PAMS Internet service to derive a high resolution OrthoMosaic and/or a high density Digital Surface Model (DSM). More: http://www.smartplanes.se/documents/PAMS-WhitePaper_eng.pdf PY On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: On Sunday 27 September 2009, Blumpsy wrote: One of the heroes is a forestry researcher by the name of Alpo Hassinen who works near the Finnish-Russian border. It's an inaccessible area, so he uses an R/C plane for taking aerial photographs. The documentary describes how all he has to do is select the area of interest in some mapping software, and how the plane then navigates itself, taking GPS-references photographs at certain intervals. This is as technical as the BBC get, so I contacted Alpo for some further info. It turns out they are using a turnkey solution called CropCam: http://www.cropcam.com The ground control system software [1] that accompanies the Paparazzi project [2] is not too dissimilar from this. robert. [1] http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/GCS [2] http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Main_Page ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM
If you are in the UK it might be a good idea to contact these people for help/advice: http://ukhas.org.uk/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM
Just noticed this on the front page of Wikipedia: Did you know... ...that in 2009 two MIT students made a vehicle to take pictures of the Earth from 93,000 feet (28,000 m) for US$148? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Icarus PaulY On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Joe Richards joefis...@yahoo.com wrote: Where did this idea go in the end? It seems the talk about it petered-out, or was some action agreed (along with who was going to undertake it)? Given the US have forgotten to keep the GPS system up to date, maybe we need a few satelites of our own to replace it... Or maybe we can use Galileo once its up instead. This was more about high-resolution aerial photography suitable for deriving traces. As for geopositioning satellites, I doubt the US military-industrial complex (or its adherents in places like Europe) will allow such a key technology to fall into real disrepair. Plus with future civilian receivers combining signals from Galileo and GPS, alongside radio signals, the future is actually looking brighter than ever... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM
Yes but almost none of the imagery would be useful for vectorising however. How be difficult would it be to adapt their low-cost approach to give more useful images for mapping? Is it just a matter of attaching the camera to some sort of gimbal? ... because you'd only sending it up to 3,500m (rather than 30,000m) you wouldn't need to worry so much about low temperatures freezing the batteries. On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:00 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/23 paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com: Just noticed this on the front page of Wikipedia: Did you know... ...that in 2009 two MIT students made a vehicle to take pictures of the Earth from 93,000 feet (28,000 m) for US$148? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Icarus Yes but almost none of the imagery would be useful for vectorising however. -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM
RC blimp might also be more practical since you could steer it etc. Do modern RC controls have that sort of range? 3.5km seems a lot... an alternative would be to control it with GPS and some sort of electronic flight plan/autopilot. On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:16 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/23 paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com: ... because you'd only sending it up to 3,500m (rather than 30,000m) you wouldn't need to worry so much about low temperatures freezing the batteries. At that altitude you wouldn't have to worry about the balloon bursting at that altitude either. The bigger issue would be the weight of the tether. -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM
The other question to be asked is the time, effort and money put into this be less than archived sat imagery which is about $14 per sq km. Yeah...but it would be fun to try! ... and while $14/sq Km doesn't sound a lot it would still cost $5376 (£4900) just to get images of (for example) the Isle of Wight in the UK, $11000 (€7440) to get pictures of New York City and $8000 (€5414) for the island of Ibiza in Spain. On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:38 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/23 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: I always thought that aviation regulations require the pilot - whether on board or on the ground - to monitor the airspace around the aircraft and take evasive action where necessary. It would be hard to do that on the ground for an aircraft that far up. But maybe that depends on the country you're in. I think in the US it is pretty much everything goes up to 1200 feet AGL or so but after that you have to behave. The other question to be asked is the time, effort and money put into this be less than archived sat imagery which is about $14 per sq km. -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM
This looks interesting: http://www.slideshare.net/jpmund/aerial-photo-ballon-technique-mapasia2006 Does anyone know Jan-Peter Mund? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM
I've sent Dr Mund and Mr Tean Peang Seng an email inviting them to join the discussion. :-) On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/23 paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com: This looks interesting: +1 http://www.slideshare.net/jpmund/aerial-photo-ballon-technique-mapasia2006 Does anyone know Jan-Peter Mund? don't know him, but he's not difficult to find (1st hit in g00gle ;-) http://www.staff.uni-mainz.de/mund/index.html cheers, Martin -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] DIY Aerial Photos
If you want to take your own aerial photographs you might want to buy this radio control model aircraft: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:ITitem=280319160407 ... then you just need to fit it out with GPS navigation, and a medium format film camera for high resolution pix. :-) Paul Y -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Penn State's GeoSpatial Revolution TV
Penn State Public Broadcasting is developing the Geospatial Revolution Project, an integrated public service media and outreach initiative on the brave new world of digital mapping. The project will include a 60-minute public television broadcast program, a structured outreach initiative with educational partners, a chaptered program DVD including educational toolkit components, and a Web site with information and additional resources. More: http://geospatialrevolution.psu.edu/ Looks like they might be good people to target for some OSM PR. via Howard Rheingold/bopuc on Twitter PaulY -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Reverse look-up gazetteer
Does anyone know if there is there a web service that lets me take the latitude and longitude of a node and establish which country, state/county/province, city and Zip/post code the node is in? PaulY -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Reverse look-up gazetteer
I am not doing anything that needs great accuracy - there are a few hundred pages on Yellowikis have geo tags in this format: geo40 16 05 N 106 53 41 W/geo I want to use a bot to go through the wiki and use these geo tags to make geo categories: like this: [[Category:USState:CO]] geonames.org looks pretty good for this. PaulY On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Someoneelse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote: marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com wrote: Lets face it. Everyone else manages this (tomtom, google, garmin, ) I'm not sure that everyone else does make too good a job of it. Google has quite a few village placenames in the wrong place near me (Derbyshire, UK). The free satnav on my Blackberry is OK with UK postcodes but struggles with smaller placenames and street or feature in placename. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Re: Alternatives to wikipedia?
Is there any reason that we can't use Flickr to host photographs? they seem to be fans of OSM: http://blog.flickr.net/en/2008/08/12/around-the-world-and-back-again/ PaulY On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: Peter Miller wrote: Finally, lets not be frightened about the cost of another box and the hosting because terrabytes and gigabytes are really cheap these days. We have just bought a box with 7 Terrabytes of disk storage and it cost £100 per terrabyte. We are also about to import all 1,000,000 of photos of geographic features in the UK from Geograph (all CCBYSA) to see how it copes. Monetary cost is, I agree, not the issue. Time costs for development, maintenance and administration are. I think we should stick to doing one thing well and rather than trying to do lots of things and not managing to do any of them well. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multiple addresses/use for one building
As I understand the Karlsruhe schema you are allowed to tag addr:housenumbers with non-numeric characters (e.g: 120b) so there is no reason you couldn't tag a node 1 to 500 or 1–500. I suppose you could use addr:housename = 1 to 500 but that seems a bit counter-intuitive. PaulY On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Marcus Wolschon mar...@wolschon.biz wrote: On 3/13/09, paul youlten p...@yellowikis.org wrote: Sarah, you could use (or adapt) the Karlsruhe Schema: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Karlsruhe_Schema As I understand it you make a node _next_ to the way that is the street to show which side of the street it is and tag it with: addr:housenumber = 1939 or if there are multiple apartments at one node or doorway: addr:housenumber = 220a, 222a, 224b, 226b or addr:housenumber = 1 to 550 I'm not sure where you reat the third option. Can you point it out? Marcus -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multiple addresses/use for one building
MW: ...your tagging will not be put to use ... except by people looking at maps on screen or on paper - who might find it useful. So, as usual, the people writing applications will have to do a little dance with the people tagging nodes with house numbers. :-) PaulY On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Marcus Wolschon mar...@wolschon.biz wrote: On 3/14/09, paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com wrote: As I understand the Karlsruhe schema you are allowed to tag addr:housenumbers with non-numeric characters (e.g: 120b) so there is no reason you couldn't tag a node 1 to 500 or 1–500. I suppose you could use addr:housename = 1 to 500 but that seems a bit counter-intuitive. You could but unless anyone writing applications that search for house-numbers know about it your tagging will not be put to use. I`m preparing the proof of concept I wrote in the Karlsruhe meeting to make TS navigate to house numbers just this weekend. It`d not be able to find where house-number 246 was in your example until you pointed out this new semantics in your posting. As fas as I see it`s not yet documented. Is this schema in actual use? Non-numeric characters are for house-numbers that actually contain these characters. Like your 120b- example. Marcus -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multiple addresses/use for one building
I would have thought that 1 to 500 would be easier to parse into machine readable digits than 120b or does 120b == 120.2? On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Marcus Wolschon mar...@wolschon.biz wrote: On 3/14/09, paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com wrote: MW: ...your tagging will not be put to use ... except by people looking at maps on screen or on paper - who might find it useful. So, as usual, the people writing applications will have to do a little dance with the people tagging nodes with house numbers. :-) I`ll implement the most important part of what is documented. Not even all of that. I`ll not even think of implementing schemas here that are not even documented for the simple case is already complex enough. Other values for addr:housenumber will simply regarded as illegal values and not found. Marcus -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] California bill to limit detail on online mapping tools
All your ducts are belong to us. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:27 AM, OJ W ojwli...@googlemail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Mike Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote: Q U O T E D I'm not against the technology; it's fantastic. But we're in an evolving world and we have to change our course as it changes. I'm all for online mapping, but knowing where the air ducts are in an air shaft is not necessary for me to navigate in the city. Who wants to know that level of detail? Bad people do. ... The fact is that I would be remiss in my job if I didn't take this seriously. I'm not interested in censoring Google or the others, but now that we know there's a threat, how could we not address this? Now where did we hear this argument before? General Tagge: What of the Rebellion? If the Rebels have obtained a complete technical reading of this station, it is possible, however unlikely, they might find a weakness and exploit it. Darth Vader: The plans you refer to will soon be back in our hands. Admiral Motti: Any attack made by the Rebels against this station would be a useless gesture, no matter what technical data they have obtained. This station is now the ultimate power in the universe. I suggest we use it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] California bill to limit detail on online mappingtools
Ed Loach = evil genius On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote: Is it me, or is blurring out the bits you don’t want to be targets just going to highlight where they are? Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] California bill to limit detail on online mappingtools
but: lat = lat + 0.001 * random(1000) might encourage the use of cluster bombs, carpet bombing and other weapons of mass destruction. Better to give the exact co-ordinates of the air duct - so as to reduce collateral damage. :-) PY ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multiple addresses/use for one building
Sarah, you could use (or adapt) the Karlsruhe Schema: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Karlsruhe_Schema As I understand it you make a node _next_ to the way that is the street to show which side of the street it is and tag it with: addr:housenumber = 1939 or if there are multiple apartments at one node or doorway: addr:housenumber = 220a, 222a, 224b, 226b or addr:housenumber = 1 to 550 ... remember it is an open street map and most people just want to know more or less where a building is likely to be - they can work it out the exact location from clues on the map or when they are on the street itself. I am not sure what to do about shops in a shopping mall I would probably aim to make the thoroughfares ways (using layer +1, +2 for the different floors) and put nodes alongside for each shop but I have never actually gone that far. and it does seem a bit extreme life is short. PaulY On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Sarah Manley sa...@cloudmade.com wrote: I am working on addressing my neighborhood, and many of the buildings have multiple addresses. For example, in my building, each apartment has its own address. I am not sure how to label this. I have read through the past threads as well as the proposed feature: (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/House_numbers/Karlsruhe_Schema#Apartment_Blocks.2C_Blocks_of_Flats.2C_Communities.2C_Business_Parks.2C_Campuses_etc ... ) This seems to be concerned more with apartment numbers, or separate entrances. In our building we have one entrance and each apartment door is a different address number. Also, for buildings such as malls, where there are many stores (I am working on San Francisco's Ferry building which has about 30 shops in it), are people just adding in separate nodes for each shop, or is there a better alternative? Thanks Sarah Sarah Manley sa...@cloudmade.com Cell: 631-338-3815 Skype: Sarah_cloudmade Twitter: SarahManley ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cloudmade: We are the Wikipedia of maps
... never-the-less we should start tagging lamp-posts so we can easily find somewhere to hang those filthy cloudmade running dogs. ;-) On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 11:44 AM, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: Mark Boslet, the Editor of Techpulse360 has modified the article to correct any misimpression. The title is now OpenStreetMap wants to be the Wikipedia of Maps and the body of the article now clearly distinguishes between CloudMade and us. 80n On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, as an OSM community member, I'm taking offence at the following article: http://techpulse360.com/2009/03/10/startup-cloudmade-wants-to-be-the-wikipedia-of-maps/ The article says that Cloudmade relies on its OpenStreetMap project, and: “This is going to be the map of the future,” says founder Steve Coast of his company. “We’re the Wikipedia of maps.” This is of course wrong; OpenStreetMap is no Cloudmade's project, and Cloudmade is not the Wikipedia of maps. Further down, the article suggests that Cloudmade money was somehow related to mapping the world: But it’s also a daunting task. The company raised $3.5 million from Sunstone Capital, but, well, the world is a large place. And: Coast says the goal is to give away the mapping data for free and charge for services. Of course, there is no mapping data that Cloudmade could give away for free because they don't own any. I know that the press always write what they want (or what they think they understand) and not necessarily what you tell them. Also, to their credit, the Cloudmade web page clearly and correctly states that We source our map data from OpenStreetMap, the community mapping project which is making a free map of the world. However, this is not the first time that the OpenStreetMap project has been confused with Cloudmade by the press, and I can hardly imagine that whoever wrote that article did so without relying on Cloudmade statements that somehow pointed in that direction. I would appreciate if Cloudmade PR people, especially in the US, would take more care in explaining the situation to the press, or if that is too much to ask, then at least refrain from misrepresenting the situation. If anyone is the Wikipedia of maps then it is the OpenStreetMap project which exists independently of Cloudmade. A very tiny portion of OpenStreetMap data is acquired during Cloudmade-sponsored events for which the project is grateful, but that does not give Cloudmade the right to act as if they own the project. I know that in the early days of the web, some access providers touted their dial-in plans as if the web was theirs - buy our package and get access to all these cool sites. Maybe it is hard for the public to understand, but an effort should be made to say that Cloudmade is an access provider, not a content provider. I'll try to make it a habit to point this out in the comment boxes of the relevant web pages if I see articles like that. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - landuse=conservation
I was thinking that the conservation tag sounds like something that might be added to Sites of Special Scientific Interest in the UK ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Site_of_special_scientific_interest ). These are managed by Natural England... ... and according to the somewhat clunky map at http://www.natureonthemap.org.uk I have 5 national Nature Reserves and at least 15 Sites of Special Scientific Interest in the little bit of East Sussex that I occasionally map... So I was excited to see that Natural England (http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ ) publish GIS Digital Boundary Datasets... and they say Use of the Datasets is generally unrestricted... But then ...by downloading the GIS data you will be accepting the Terms and Conditions as shown on the Download Page. ... The Terms and conditions ( http://www.opsi.gov.uk/advice/psi-regulations/advice-and-guidance/copyright-and-licensing-arrangements.htm ) look quite restrictive, because their data is based on OS data, which prevents OSM from using them. ...and of course - looking at the SSSIs near me not all the boundaries are walkable/cyclable and anyway I might end up damaging the areas that I wanted to map! :-( PaulY http://www.english-nature.org.uk/pubs/gis/GIS_register.asp On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: On 13 Jan 2009, at 15:30, Tim Berners-Lee wrote: Peter, Yes, my first post. But just me as a map and outdoors enthusiast. Not representing W3C. No subtext to my post. Just asking for tag. Welcome (Now landuse=conservation is in mapnik and osmarender, I am more confident we are making progress on this, and will be able to motivate people to maintain maps of conservation land.) This raises a question I have about overloading of tags (if that is the right term for this). I notice that a nature-reserve is categorised under leisure, which seems weird. It is not really there as a leisure facility and some nature-reserves are not open to the public and are therefore not leisure facilities. If it was in natural though then it would clash with conservation and with heath etc. So how do we manage a piece of conservation land, that is also heath and a nature-reserve. Currently unless we deploy the dreaded ';' or we have ways on top of ways we can't currently do it. That said, I'm happy to separately talk mapping the OSM to the semantic web, OSM and W3C in in a subject line. I think it might be worth looking at this. It all feels a bit like the early days of javascript where many small decisions were made very fast and we have been living with the consequences ever since. That is not a criticism of where we are, OSM would not be the success it is without all those decisions having been made fast, it is only an observation that a review at this point might pay big dividends in the future. I will pick the issue up on the other thread. Peter Tim On 2009-01 -09, at 19:01, Peter Miller wrote: On 9 Jan 2009, at 15:46, Tim Berners-Lee wrote: I'd like to propose a tag for conservation land - land protected from development. There was no alternative for tis tag in the thousands of areas which CRSchmidt imported recently from the Mass GIS database of open space in Massachusetts. Details below and on the wiki at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/conservation Tim Berners-Lee Tim, if this is your first post can I first say welcome from all of us, if not then I should go an read you previous posts and give my apologies for missing them so far. It is great to have input and that that of W3. I know that you are personally keen on a free geographic web to support a semantic web and that is of course what OSM is busy collecting. If the subtext of your post is that W3 is interested in OSM and the standards behind it then we are all ears. Personally I think 2009 will be a breakthrough year for the project and we are going to need all the help we can get to deal with the expectations that will be raised. Regards, Peter Miller ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Reuse of Ordinance Survey maps
http://spatialnews.geocomm.com/dailynews/2008/nov/17/news4.html ;-) -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Reuse of Ordinance Survey maps
http://spatialnews.geocomm.com/dailynews/2008/nov/17/news4.html ;-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Speed camera maps
FYI from Slashdot: Two mobile applications, NMobile and Trapster, are providing drivers with up-to-date maps of speed-enforcement zones with live police traps, speed cameras or red-light cameras. Each application pulls up a map pinpointing the locations of speed traps within driving distance and an audio alert will sound as vehicles approach an area tagged as harboring a speed trap. Both applications rely on the wisdom of the crowds for their data with users reporting camera-rigged stop lights and areas heavily populated with radar-toting police officers via the iPhone or their web-based application... More: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/23/1738254 PY ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is ....
Spanish version of OSM: http://www.osm.es/ On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Steve Chilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Searching for something else I came across this: OSM is a multifunctional cytokine produced by activated T lymphocytes and monocytes and shares properties with all the members of this family of proteins. OSM is structurally and functionally very similar to LIF. Which just about sums it up really! Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Manager of e-Learning Academic Development Centre for Learning and Quality Enhancement Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ideas for student project on OSM
I´d like the OSM equivalent the watchlist function in MediaWiki. Ideally I would be able to get an email alerting me when changes are made to areas I am interested in. On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 11:35 PM, Matt Amos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Freek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have not seen those (would be interested), but I would guess rectangular queries make an equilateral-triangle subdivision inherently less favourable, even though the geometry is distorted by the projection i think it might have been this one... or maybe not... it was a long time ago :-) http://research.microsoft.com/research/pubs/view.aspx?tr_id=736 (we don't have much data near the poles anyway ;-) this is exactly why an icosahedral decomposition is so good - each tile in the same level of the tree is very nearly the same projected area. the quadtile approach (whether using 3395 or 4326) projects to much smaller areas near the poles than the equator, so wastes valuable coordinate space and unbalances the tree. if the icosahedron is oriented correctly (fuller's dymaxion orientation) then several of the triangular faces are completely filled with ocean and can be omitted. cheers, matt ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] pub vs café
The difference between pubs and restaurants is a getting a bit blurred. But not so much between pubs and cafes. In the UK pubs have to be licenced with the local council and usually have restricted opening hours (i.e: they are not normally allowed to sell alcohol before 11am). They also have to comply with national and local legislation which can include things like not being within a certain distance of a school, not allowing people under 16 years to enter the premises unaccompanied and not being operated by someone who is a convicted criminal. Cafes are not usually licenced to sell alcohol and are simply regulated by the local authority's food hygiene office. If a cafe or restaurant wants to sell alcohol they have to apply for a licence just like a pub or a restaurant. There used to be lots of rules about restaurants not being allowed to have a bar where customers could sit and consume drinks and there was a rule about them only being allowed to serve alcohol with meals; but most of these laws were repealed under the Licencing act 2003. PY On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Tim Waters (chippy) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I've been in many cafes with no dedicated kitchens (Starbucks, for instance). And a lot of pubs with dedicated kitchens. A pub's main revenue comes from the booze. Many of them are closing down their kitchens to save money. Some pubs have a tiny bar, and most of it is a restaurant - so called gastro-pubs. cafe, from coffee - selling coffee. A coffee, or tea shop. Cake. pub, from public - selling, erm, beer. No cake. another, less official: A pub - It has frosted windows, closed off areas, no table service. Mainly male. Is more popular in the evening and night. a cafe has clear windows, and a terrace open to the world. Table service, open to all, people watching is part of it. Is more popular in the daytime. Maybe, ultimately, it's cake vs no cake? Or pork scratchings vs cake? On 10/18/08, Matt Amos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: El Sábado, 18 de Octubre de 2008, Pete Lawrence escribió: Restaurants v's cafe's are probably more likely to be mixed up. It's easy, actually: dedicated kitchen area or not. there are several cafes near me with dedicated kitchen areas - often the british style caff which specialises in fry-ups. when i'm tagging i choose based on whether it looks like a lunch, snack and coffee place or a seated dinner place. sometimes the signage provides a big clue :-) cheers, matt ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] pub vs café
The UK licencing laws only apply to selling alcohol; so if the cafe or restaurant is not licenced you can take your own wine (sometimes even if they do have a licence you can ask them if it is OK to bring your own bottle of wine) and while they cannot charge you for the drink they can charge you for corkage which covers the use of their glasses and waiters opening it and pouring it for you. I think this is called BYOB (bring your own beer) in the USA? An Off Licence is a special licence for a shop that sells alcohol that is going to be consumed away from the shop (at home or at a picnic for example). In the USA these shops are called Liquor stores and their regulation varies from state to state. More on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-licence#Off-licence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquor_store PY On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, paul youlten wrote: The difference between pubs and restaurants is a getting a bit blurred. But not so much between pubs and cafes. [interesting details] If a cafe or restaurant wants to sell alcohol they have to apply for a licence just like a pub or a restaurant. Are there still proper restaurants in the UK without a license? Can you then bring your own alcoholic beverages and have them served? I read something about a corking fee related to this, but this may well have been from 20 years ago. And then - this is probably a US term - what is an off license? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] pub vs café
Dermot said: This situation used to be very common in Birmingham on the Balti Mile. There, Indian restaurants offering affordable (and tasty) food traditionally did not have licences. I always assumed that this was because most Balti Houses/Indian Restaurants are run by Bangladeshi Muslims who don't sell alcoholic on religious grounds. PY On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Dermot McNally [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/10/18 Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Are there still proper restaurants in the UK without a license? Can you then bring your own alcoholic beverages and have them served? I read something about a corking fee related to this, but this may well have been from 20 years ago. This situation used to be very common in Birmingham on the Balti Mile. There, Indian restaurants offering affordable (and tasty) food traditionally did not have licences. Off-Licences (shops licensed to sell alcohol for consumption Off the premises) began to spring up next door to the restaurants, and members of the public would bring their own beer and wine into the restaurant. A corking fee is exactly what you describe, a surcharge on self-brought (usually) wine, but whether one will apply is very much down to the restaurant itself. Corking fees are not confined to unlicensed restaurants either - it could happen that a customer would choose to bring a very special bottle of wine he owns to enjoy with a meal. A lot of the Birmingham restaurants I mentioned do now have licences, but self-brought booze was still common enough last time I was there. Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Large Hadron Collider at CERN now in OppenStreetMap
I doubt if a black hole would ever be tagged anything but one way. However adding a no_exit tag might be a good idea. On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Lester Caine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Karl Newman wrote: On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Lester Caine [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joseph Scanlan wrote: On Sat, 13 Sep 2008, paul youlten wrote: Would it be correct to tag a black hole Physical: Highway_Parallel_Universe_link? Don't forget to tag it oneway=yes. You need to check the project ;) The whole point is that they want to send things both way :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL To *AND* from a parallel universe? Amazing! Isn't that part of what they are hoping to achieve? ;) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Large Hadron Collider at CERN now in OppenStreetMap
Would it be correct to tag a black hole Physical: Highway_Parallel_Universe_link? http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 2:43 AM, OJ W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Done, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/ for the map. b.t.w. we were wondering about the spelling of Route Planc on the CERN map - a google search for Route Planck returns more results, and would seem to fit better with the scientists road-naming convention in that area. On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 2:39 PM, David Groom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Definately commended. It gets my vote for next weeks featured image. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
Yellowikis likes this kind of information. http://yellowikis.wikia.org On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:06 AM, Stefan Neufeind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Florian Lohoff wrote: On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 03:54:56PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am definitively against phone numbers in OSM. On many communities on the internet publishing phone numbers and email adresses is not welcome because wrong numbers can't be found easily and people suffering from such phone calls will be really annoyed. Please use the WEBSITE tag - nobody will be annoyed by an error in a URL and if a phone number changes the sitemaster will take care and not the mapper. If there is no website for the amenity, you can add the URL of the search result of the yellow pages. The point will be that one day you need the yellow-pages machine readable link. E.g. every car navigation will show you the next 20 hotels surrounding you and will offer the numbers and addresses. I do agree though that these informations should not be the scope of OSM but there should be some possibility to link them. I agree. But in the meantime imho where available we should at least add that information to have them available in a clear and structured way together with the POIs. If at a later step we decide to split off certain information (opening hours, descriptions, ratings, ...) into a separate POI-database or something, then we're ready to go. Regards, Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OCZ Neural Impulse Actuator
I was just reading my son's copy of Custom PC (August 08) and it has a review of something called the OCZ Neural Impulse Actuator. http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/ocz_peripherals/nia-neural_impulse_actuator It might be interesting to test it out for hands-free tagging of features while on a bike. ;-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Vandalism in Trumpington
I suspect that a large part of the problem is in the delay between making an edit and being able to see it rendered on the map. Maybe if Katie had been able to see the effects of her edits on the map immediately she would have stopped and reverted them herself. On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 12:37 AM, Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard Fairhurst schreef: Ulf Lamping wrote: This all sounds you're trying to cure the pain of not using buffered editing with adding another concept that will add another layer of confusion ... Fine. I'm really not going to attempt and convince anyone here - one has to be a bit of a pig-headed UI fascist to develop stuff like this, otherwise you end up with design by committee which just doesn't work. I think it's good that we offer editors that work in different ways; that there is more than one answer to the questions of how's stuff written to the db and how do I avoid causing damage, although Potlatch doesn't adequately answer those questions yet; and that those who are arguing for a save button are trying to impose a model which doesn't suit Potlatch. You and Frederik and doubtless others disagree - as shown by the fact that you find something painful while I actively prefer it. That's fine, there's no monopoly on editors. I don't feel it's impossible to have a usable editor that doesn't work on the prepare and commit principle, and that's what I'm concentrating on building. Keep up the good work Richard! Polyglot (who uses both editors; JOSM for initial entering of data/Potlatch for fine tuning afterwards and aligning on Yahoo! imagery) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] BBC: Villages 'discovered' in DR Congo
Mapping Africa has is likely to be the most challenging - and at the same time the most valuable - project that OSM contributes to. Tony Bowden (User:Tmtm) and I are trying to get a pilot project going in Uganda to help the Guardian's Katine project ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/katine) which is located North East of Soroti ( http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=1.85lon=33.28zoom=8layers=B0FT). The Guardian is working with local aid agencies to support development in an area with 66 villages and no access to any up-to-date maps - anyone else that would like to get involved should email me or leave a message on my wikipage (User:PaulY). PaulY On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Matt Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems the DR Congo has been mapping their villages using GPS devices since traditional mapping methods are made difficult by the thick forest. See the BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7355335.stm. Compare their map http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/08/africa_enl_1208537563/html/1.stm to our's at present http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=-2.017lon=17.117zoom=9layers=B0FT. Does anyone have any more information about this? Regards, Matt Williams ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Can't find what you're looking for?
Maybe I am being slow but I just spotted this on Google maps: * Add a place to the map (new) You can see it at the bottom of the links on the left hand side. then: * Provide location and details using the info window on the map. * Once you save your place, the whole world can find your addition by searching for it within a few minutes. Looks like it only works for the USA at the moment: http://tinyurl.com/6zhh5y Only a few years behind OSM ;-) Paul Y -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
...or as Ken Livingstone said: If voting changed anything they'd abolish it. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 4:57 AM, SteveC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7 Apr 2008, at 12:24, Robin Paulson wrote: 2008/4/7 Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED]: stumbled across a quote by David D Clark (of Internet architecture fame) today. He said: We reject: kings, presidents and voting. We believe in: rough consensus and running code. maybe someone should tell the government? apparently we're all wasting our time voting for them, and 'rough consensus' should be used to decide who's in power. Like, er, electing President Bush, or Prime Minister Gordon Brown (no election) ? did he have any basis for it, or was it just a nice pseudo-anarchic sound bite? Not that I'm into gurus and such but it's nice to see that I am not the only sane person on earth who doubts that formal voting processes are not necessarily the best thing to have ;-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Fwd: OSM Political problems (Re: China cracks down onillegal online map services to protect state security)
-- Forwarded message -- From: paul youlten [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Political problems (Re: China cracks down onillegal online map services to protect state security) To: Tom Chance [EMAIL PROTECTED] While edit wars might upset a few, very passionate editors who take absolutist positions on geography, politics and history - such conflicts are not totally negative because they are often picked up by the local media and promoted to a wider audience. For example the OSM edit war (or skirmish) in Northern Cyprus a few months ago could have got more people interested in OSM if we had done a press release about it. Equally, getting banned isn't always a bad thing. Wikipedia has been blocked by the Great Firewall of China several times - every time it happens Wikipedia gets a lot of media attention - which brings more people and editors to the wiki, the community feels like they are protecting free speech - which helps their motivation. So if (or maybe when) OSM gets blocked by the authorities in China we should all celebrate. Paul Y On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 3:29 AM, Tom Chance [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:14:00 +0100, Bernt M. Johnsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think this will be an increasing problem as OSM gains more momentum. For some people, national boundaries have huge political importance, and we should perhaps give some thought on how to deal with this before we get an edit war wrt Taiwan is a country or wether Kosovo is a part of Serbia or not. Wikipedia has these problems and deals with them (see e.g. this article with corresponding discussions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide), but since OSM is more like a sea of data than a set of separate articles, I assume it migt be more complex to deal with in OSM. I also assume (could not find anything in the wiki) that OSM ideally should be politically neutral. Of course the problem is that there is usually no such thing as neutrality, you either call Taiwan a country or you don't and both positions are politically charged. The closest we could come would be, for example, to call Taiwan an island and part of China since the UN recognises it as such. Kind regards, Tom ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
