[Talk-GB] SALE !
Most promising result from a council so far ! -- Forwarded message -- Date: 16 April 2015 at 16:53 Subject: RE: FAO PARKS and Webmaster [REF:14892321677] To: pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com Good Afternoon, Thank you for your response. The open street map certainly looks like a promising solution. We'll explore this in more detail discuss the adding of further features with our Parks Team. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project - postboxes
On 14 April 2015 at 09:54, p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: On Mon Apr 13 23:59:14 2015 GMT+0100, Pierre Riteau wrote: I have followed this proposal too. Example for a Franked mail only post box: mail:meter = yes mail:stamped = no I do not understand where the word meter comes from in this concept. Surely mail:franked=yes mail:stamped=no Boxes are labeled franked mail only, can you put print postage at home stuff in a franked only box? Only if it's franked. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project - postboxes
On 13 April 2015 at 12:22, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote: Came across 2 postboxes today, side-by-side, one with 1st Class and one with 2nd class. Two wall-mounted box refs so not 2 apertures on the same pillar. I couldn't see anything in the wiki on how to treat these so I tagged them postbox:restriction= 1st class mail only and 2nd class mail only. Is there something somewhere already established or do we need a consensus on how to tag these? Rgds Brian Tag them however you think is appropriate. The 'correct way' will be revealed in due course (10 years?) -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Projects Update
On 4 April 2015 at 15:30, Pierre Riteau pie...@pierreriteau.name wrote: On Sat, 4 Apr 2015, at 11:22 AM, Robert Norris wrote: My 2p: If surveying postboxes, is to also record the postbox type (mostly lamp, pillar or wall) and the Royal Cypher. See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=post_box I second that. I use the following keys when surveying post boxes: amenity = post_box collection_times = … operator = Royal Mail (only if it's a Royal Mail post box of course) post_box:type = … ref = … royal_cypher = … source = survey survey:date = 2015-04-04 I add survey:date to easily find which post boxes haven't been updated recently, and then try to check their collection times again after one or two years. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb Survey date is good - and should really be used with everything - although rivers aren't likely to disappear and reappear but obviously roads and buildings come and go from time to time. Better still to have start and end dates attached to each tag too. I've also tagged a box with colour=gold - in the case where the box is a non-standard colour. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Projects Update
On 3 April 2015 at 16:49, ael law_ence@ntlworld.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 03, 2015 at 01:43:35PM +0100, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote: For anyone interested in mapping Royal Mail Post Boxes, or Post Office Ltd Post Office branches, you may find the tools I run at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postboxes/ useful. Amongst other things, This seems to be quite misleading because it requires ref keys. I looked at my local area, and found OSM had 0% coverage. Digging in further, I found that OSM had *all* of the post boxes that I checked already mapped. I had mapped many of those. I seldom include a ref key partly because I hadn't seen any point in the past, and partly because I usually take a quick geotagged photograph when mapping and the reference (to be honest, I am not quite sure I know what it is) is seldom visible or resolved. I suspect this area actually has something close to 100% coverage. This also maybe explains why a nearby mapper a while ago suggested this area hadn't been mapped fully because he had noticed missing post boxes. He couldn't identify a missing box except one which I very strongly suspect is spurious having a position in the middle of private fields with no access... Still it is useful to have the list and if and when I remember or have time I may check properly. Casting my eye down the list, I can only see one that I don't immediately recognise as something I have mapped. ael It seems the ref is only used to identify 'missing' boxes and without it, there wouldn't be any missing. Perhaps it's causing as much confusion as solving ? On 3 April 2015 at 16:49, Brad Rogers b...@fineby.me.uk wrote: On Fri, 3 Apr 2015 15:31:32 +0100 pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: Hello pmailkeey, It's likely the right version - as without punctuation is Royal Mail preferred and it's a new street. Royal Mail don't decide the correct spelling/punctuation, the relevant Local Authority does(1). They (Royal Mail) might prefer no punctuation but I suspect that's only because their sorting machines don't cope with it very well. (1) Whether any of them pay any attention to RM preferences, IDK. Correct! All RM decides is postcodes. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Projects Update
On 3 April 2015 at 17:55, John Aldridge j...@jjdash.demon.co.uk wrote: On 03/04/2015 15:55, Colin Smale wrote: According to the National Street Gazetteer, the official source of street names is the local authority in their Local Street Gazetteer which they have to feed into the NSG. Is this the other database to which you refer? Probably, I couldn't remember the details. The official source of street names, house names and numbers is the planning panel of the appropriate authority (council) for that area. During the meeting, the minutes record the meeting and say a street is agreed to be called Mystreet Close, then that is recorded in the minutes. At the following meeting, the previous meeting's minutes will be read, approved by those in attendance and signed off by the Chairman as a true record. If those signed off minutes show the new street to be called Mystereet Close then that is the street's official name. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Projects Update
On 3 April 2015 at 13:49, David Woolley for...@david-woolley.me.uk wrote: On 03/04/15 13:43, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote: Should everything be amenity=post_office, or would it be better to have different tags for sorting offices / distribution warehouses and also for parcel collection points? Different. In particular, if it is not open to the public, I would not consider it to be an amenity. Also, although privatised, post offices are semi-governmental institutions, whereas the rest are parts of a courier service. Clearly post office is wrong unless it offers post office services. Delivery offices are open to the public. On 3 April 2015 at 14:11, SK53 sk53@gmail.com wrote: A while back I did have a go at doing delivery offices (using amenity=delivery_office) because a) these are often in funny places and b) finding the local one which is the parcel collection point was non-trivial (so useful map feature). It should be possible to trawl OSM for delivery office and find out what the current most popular labelling arrangements are. Ideally, we should look at say the top 5 five most popular and be guided by that. On 3 April 2015 at 14:41, John Aldridge j...@jjdash.demon.co.uk wrote: One road has signs saying ST. BEDE'S GARDENS (full stop and apostrophe) ST. BEDES GARDENS (just the full stop) I'll look into this. -- Cheers, John -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Projects Update
On 3 April 2015 at 14:41, John Aldridge j...@jjdash.demon.co.uk wrote: FWIW, the previous editor had used St Bedes Gardens, which seemed not unreasonable given the range of possibilities, so I left it like that and just added a not:name tag to shut the validator up. It's likely the right version - as without punctuation is Royal Mail preferred and it's a new street. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Actual names
On 3 April 2015 at 14:41, John Aldridge j...@jjdash.demon.co.uk wrote:
On 02/04/2015 10:42, Brian Prangle wrote:
Our first attempt at a quarterly project has just finished, where fixing
road names was the target.
This may entertain you...
This email reminded me that I'd meant to check out one or two more
mismatches round here, so went out this morning to finish the ones I hadn't
got round to (mostly apostrophe issues).
I completely agree with the consensus that we should be tagging the name
which appears on the ground, not some official name, but sometimes the
people putting up signs don't help :)
One road has signs saying
ST. BEDE'S GARDENS (full stop and apostrophe)
ST. BEDES GARDENS (just the full stop)
on opposite sides of the road, about 10 yards apart. Just down the road is
another sign for ST BEDES CRESCENT which notes...
Leading to ST BEDES GARDENS (neither full stop nor apostrophe)
FWIW, the previous editor had used St Bedes Gardens, which seemed not
unreasonable given the range of possibilities, so I left it like that and
just added a not:name tag to shut the validator up.
We'll find a lot of issues like that.
Using the name 'on the ground' is logical (as is labelling roads as per the
road on the ground, not the road in the Government's head) but that brings
up another issue. OSM is found globally, not just in the one location where
the road sign(s) is/are. So would it not be better to use the name found
most commonly on the web for that road ?
Ham and Egg Terrace
Dumbell(')s Row
Dumbells Terrace
Mines Road.
Four names, 1 place.
Pick one.
--
Mike.
@millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction -
For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
via *the area's premier website - *
*currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property
pets*
TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail
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Re: [Talk-GB] Canal River Trust maps
Dave, I'm not giving up ! On 2 April 2015 at 12:41, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: On 02/04/15 12:28, Dave F. wrote: Ah, might as well forget it... Just read Richard F's blog on the CRT website. V. disappointing. https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/blog/odette-myall/new-maps-for-a-new-website It is much better to look at this as a positive rather than a negative! What *IS* needed is a successful way of using third party data sets rather than continually merging now quite complex data sets into the one unmanageable whole. I would hope to see the information available as an overlay to osm in the same way it overlays google. Then perhaps all the material that is simply missing or incorrect on google can be replaced with much more accurate local views :) Certainly the paths and access to the navigable sections of canals and rivers around here are currently totally blank on the google version. I think it'd help if we can show them the way. OSM doesn't show water flow in canals (I've tried!) and the lock gate(s) icon needs fixing - to a going against the flow. I think much of the data on their map is already on OSM - needs checking though. I also note they don't offer a cycle map - which we'll obviously show. Stick with that - we'll get the cycling fraternity pressing for them to use OSM ! -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Road works
On 1 April 2015 at 21:26, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 01/04/2015 20:51, pmailkeey . wrote: Can we please discuss and wikify ? What makes you think it hasn't already? Dave F. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com The lack of a road works page !!! ?? -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Road works
On 1 April 2015 at 21:26, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 01/04/2015 20:51, pmailkeey . wrote: Can we please discuss and wikify ? What makes you think it hasn't already? Dave F. *Create the page Road works http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Road_worksaction=editredlink=1 on this wiki!* See also the search results found. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Road works
Dave's question was quite valid, Your comment wasn't helpful. On 1 April 2015 at 22:01, jonat...@bigfatfrog67.me wrote: Not very helpful. Jonathan --- http://bigfatfrog67.me *From:* Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com *Sent:* Wednesday, 1 April 2015 21:26 *To:* pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com, talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org On 01/04/2015 20:51, pmailkeey . wrote: Can we please discuss and wikify ? What makes you think it hasn't already? Dave F. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Road works
Hi all, I think we need road works features for the map - with restrictions as to their use: - Only for closures - where rerouting is *necessary* - Only for works affecting more than 1 day (as otherwise not really worth the effort to put on) - Not generally for use re closures re accidents and incidents (but only due to short time effects). Ideal for cases where the bridge has washed away in the floods etc. and repairs will take months. Can we please discuss and wikify ? Examples: Proposed road works: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/335977956#map=19/54.46572/-3.55080 Existing road works: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/335558485 Possible Issues: - Naming - 'road works' is clearly not enough. adding a finishing date code would enable anyone to find finished works to reinstate the road (provided works don't go over time) - by area ? - maintenance of data? Ok, that's some outline ideas... discuss ! -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] GB postcodes
On 26 March 2015 at 09:08, Pierre Riteau pie...@pierreriteau.name wrote: On Wed, 25 Mar 2015, at 09:22 PM, Pmailkeey . wrote: What use are post box ref numbers ? Who is really bothered about collection times ? The nearest post box is useful info. I can't imagine anyone using postcodes for routing. Postcodes, I guess are only of use to Royal Mail for the purpose of organising delivery rounds and abbreviating locations inaccurately. I am one of the mappers interested in post box data. I find it very handy to know the collection times. Around my house there are post boxes collected at 11:00, 11:30, or 12:00 on Saturdays. When I want to send a letter on a Saturday after 11:00, I check OSM for the closest uncollected post box. The fact that the data is not useful to you doesn't mean is it not useful for other people! Maybe you have a higher density of postboxes but even so, it's usually quite possible to remember the location of the one with the later collection. The other point is, RM is so slow nowadays I no longer bother with first class as second is usually as quick. If a packet is urgent, best send it by e-mail. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] GB postcodes
On 25 March 2015 at 22:13, Carles Pina i Estany car...@pina.cat wrote: Hi, On Mar/25/2015, Pmailkeey . wrote: On 25 March 2015 at 18:25, Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-03-25 18:20 GMT+00:00 Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: Postcodes are very valuable for routing - people outside OSM use them very heavily for that. Postcodes are not even a minority concern. [...] I can't imagine anyone using postcodes for routing. Postcodes, I guess are only of use to Royal Mail for the purpose of organising delivery rounds and abbreviating locations inaccurately. I do use them, when I usee Google Maps - when I want an approximate route it's the quickest way to pin down place. In the UK (at least in London) a postcode is a very small zone so it's very useful. In other countries a postcode is too big to be useful. Not to mention that there are streets with the same name or almost the same name so the postcode serves to double check that the street is the wanted one. -- Carles Pina i Estany Web: http://pinux.info || Blog: http://pintant.cat GPG Key 0x8CD5C157 Not everyone gives the correct post code as well ! -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] New OS open data now available
I'd suggest you use OSM as it'll likely be more accurate. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Fiction
Could really do with a highway http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway=fictitious http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Droad tag for roads with fictional names howsoever caused. I've just found reference in an official publication to a fictional streetname - and have found use of that name in other official circumstances - despite the street in question having a completely different name ! -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Seasonal greetings
I see spring has arrived and the saplings are now bushy trees with brown trunks. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Fwd: Search but cannot find
On 19 March 2015 at 16:31, Ian Caldwell ian1caldwell+...@googlemail.com wrote: On 19 March 2015 at 15:54, Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: If map renderers don't want to use C and U numbered roads, that is up to them to ignore and not for mappers to place in a different field in the database. But that means that renderers would have to analyse the strings and that analysis will be country and possible region dependant. Much better to store in a simple way in the database if the road numbers are normally used. That information can be put in by the mapper rather than being guessed by the renderer. This will allow for local variation. So if one council does use C numbers on a road sign that can be recorded. Ian If it is decided for the database to be able to record this aspect of road numbering, the numbers should stay in the one field and a second field should be used to indicate whether the numbers are used or not on signs. Still makes use of 2 fields but keeps the main field 'tidy'. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging U road numbers [was: Search but cannot find]
On 19 March 2015 at 09:39, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 March 2015 at 01:39, Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: So all ABCU road numbers need to be consistently placed No they don't. We've had the discussion many times before, and in the UK we don't put C or U refs into the ref tag. This is for good reasons, as other people have explained. It seems OSM needs people who know something about databases and usefulness of data. Now you are just being very, very rude. Thanks, Andy Lacking the intelligence to recognise the errors is another issue. The first step to a cure is to admit there's a problem in the first place. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Fwd: Search but cannot find
Hi Dan, On 19 March 2015 at 08:15, Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-03-19 1:54 GMT+00:00 Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: On 18 March 2015 at 17:54, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote: A wiki search for admin_ref finds http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Tagging_Guidelines#Tagging_Road_Numbers There's a right way to tag road numbers and a wrong way. The above is the wrong way. Thanks but this is a bit unhelpful - could you explain what you mean please? Dan All 'tagging' is doing is effectively naming the database field in which the attribute is being placed. Road numbers all belong in the road number field irrespective of what the number is. If map renderers don't want to use C and U numbered roads, that is up to them to ignore and not for mappers to place in a different field in the database. Doesn't that seem a more logical approach to the issue ? -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Search but cannot find
On 18 March 2015 at 09:58, Matt Williams li...@milliams.com wrote: On 18 March 2015 at 09:13, Paul Sladen o...@paul.sladen.org wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015, Pmailkeey . wrote: Anyone know why the search facility can't find Waingatebridge Cottages ? Presumably this terrace in the Lake District which has no 'name='; http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/314851241 and which is on a street that also has no 'name=': http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/323083782 OK - now got a name=d residential area for those houses - see if that helps ! OSM struggles with properties not on named streets ! On that note, I see that nearby Millom has an awful lot of U roads marked on the map http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/323083782#map=16/54.2101/-3.2701 I'm surprised that they have them all signposted since we agreed that we should record U names since they're just for internal council bookkeeping? Matt __ U-numbers are used publicly - most often on temporary planning development notices attached to street lights etc. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging U road numbers [was: Search but cannot find]
UGH ! :(( Noble - in my case Karen. Died April, last year (or was it the year before) - cancer. I've just been OSMing in her area - she was an infamous author - amongst her 'titles' is The Highway Code - the official book blah blah - the official title of the book. What HMSO turn out now: The Official Highway Code is not the official title of the official book. She was a good source of roads technicalities. On 18 March 2015 at 21:13, Donald Noble drno...@gmail.com wrote: This came up in discussions at the Edinburgh pub Meetup last night, and those there (quite a few of the prominent mappers in Scotland) agreed that eg U1234 should be on either admin_ref or official_ref (whichever was most popular) And not on the main ref tag. Also perhaps a case for not rendering references on residential roads? But the issue with routing engines directing onto unsigned road references meant we felt it was more than just a rendering issue. Donald I'm sure it'd be wrong to put one set of data across more than one field. So all ABCU road numbers need to be consistently placed irrespective of whether the data appears on signage. In towns, streetnames should 'come first' out of directions systems. The earlier comment of take the U1234 being meaningless without signage is just as useless as Take Tippins Lane when Tippins Lane isn't signed either yet the name appears on the maps. What's in the database isn't relevant to 'directions'. Directions software should be able to distinguish between the value of Follow A47 and Follow U1234 and Follow Tippin's Lane. It should also accommodate Turn left at The Church (I'll leave it up to you to decide what liquid gets worshipped at The Church) as many people seem to like to navigate by buildings. At the fork in the road, you have reached MacDonalds. It seems OSM needs people who know something about databases and usefulness of data. Whether A, B, C or U, primary/trunk/secondary/tertiary is fairly irrelevant to the road user. Speed of travel, directness of route and suitability of route are the most useful bits of data the road user has to interpret out of all the fluff. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Fwd: Search but cannot find
On 18 March 2015 at 17:54, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote: Dan wrote: Can you point us to some further reading about this admin_ref tag? The wiki isn't telling me about it. If there is indeed a consensus then it'd be nice for it to be documented! A wiki search for admin_ref finds http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Tagging_Guidelines#Tagging_Road_Numbers There's a right way to tag road numbers and a wrong way. The above is the wrong way. There's also a right way and a wrong way to set e-mail Reply-to: field - and this is the wrong way. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] iD users - selecting issue
Hi all, Any iD editor users finding an issue where things can't be selected by simply clicking on them (as normal) but that they re quire a double-click which also triggers a zoom-in ? Closing the browser (in my case, Chrome) and reopening it restores normality. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
Precisely ! On 28 January 2015 at 14:30, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 28/01/2015 14:24, Pmailkeey . wrote: A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke them. Err.. But it's illegal to sell to under age people. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
On 28 January 2015 at 12:10, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer The copyright page does include: Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any liability. http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb They would say you made information available to others for the purpose of them using that information, you cannot deny some liability for when people use that information (whether rightly or wrongly) In UK law, if you lend a neighbour your ladder and hedge trimmer, if he cuts his fingers off as he falls from the ladder, you can be held liable for lending him the gear. Basically, on doing the lending you have a duty to assess whether he's capable of using the gear safely. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke them. On 28 January 2015 at 14:21, Phillip Barnett phillip.p.barn...@gmail.com wrote: So all shopkeepers are liable if they sell a hedge trimmer to someone who then cuts off their fingers? I would be very surprised if that was the case On 28 Jan 2015, at 13:52, Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 28 January 2015 at 12:10, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer The copyright page does include: Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any liability. http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb They would say you made information available to others for the purpose of them using that information, you cannot deny some liability for when people use that information (whether rightly or wrongly) In UK law, if you lend a neighbour your ladder and hedge trimmer, if he cuts his fingers off as he falls from the ladder, you can be held liable for lending him the gear. Basically, on doing the lending you have a duty to assess whether he's capable of using the gear safely. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
If you sold the ladder to your neighbour, you'd be ok cos then it'd be his ladder to do what he wanted with it - and you'd lose the liability as you couldn't prevent him doing whatever he likes with his ladder. That's the big difference. Best thing then is only to *sell *info on OSM map.. On 28 January 2015 at 15:20, Phillip Barnett phillip.p.barn...@gmail.com wrote: And car manufacturers are legally responsible for 4 deaths every year? They'd soon be out of business if so. I can't believe that lending your neighbour a piece of equipment in good working order would make you responsible for injury. If you knew it was damaged, however, and did not make your neighbour aware of this fact, then yes, you most likely would be liable. On 28 Jan 2015, at 14:24, Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke them. On 28 January 2015 at 14:21, Phillip Barnett phillip.p.barn...@gmail.com wrote: So all shopkeepers are liable if they sell a hedge trimmer to someone who then cuts off their fingers? I would be very surprised if that was the case On 28 Jan 2015, at 13:52, Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 28 January 2015 at 12:10, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer The copyright page does include: Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any liability. http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb They would say you made information available to others for the purpose of them using that information, you cannot deny some liability for when people use that information (whether rightly or wrongly) In UK law, if you lend a neighbour your ladder and hedge trimmer, if he cuts his fingers off as he falls from the ladder, you can be held liable for lending him the gear. Basically, on doing the lending you have a duty to assess whether he's capable of using the gear safely. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
True - not even footpaths go where OS shows they do ! On 28 January 2015 at 15:41, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: On 28/01/15 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer -- I've just had a mail from a gentleman enquiring why an underground powerline http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/127968407/history#map=17/51.50283/-2.55462 was drawn on OSM -- as he didn't want to buy a house on top of it and Western Power told him the powerline couldn't be there! I think he joined OSM just to message me?!? When I lived in Hillingdon I wanted to build a garage at the bottom of the garden. The OS maps showed a storm water drain running through the next property and under the track behind where I wanted to build. I had to dig down and show that we were clear of that drain ... except it was 6' further over ... right under the corner of the garage. So now there is a wooden porch which can be taken down if they need access. Bottom line - even the OS maps can't be taken as accurate! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer
On 28 January 2015 at 01:13, Neil Matthews ndmatth...@plus.net wrote: Do we need an OSM disclaimer -- I've just had a mail from a gentleman enquiring why an underground powerline http://www.openstreetmap.org/ way/127968407/history#map=17/51.50283/-2.55462 was drawn on OSM -- as he didn't want to buy a house on top of it and Western Power told him the powerline couldn't be there! I think he joined OSM just to message me?!? I suspect he might have been more upset if he was selling... Cheers, Neil (ndm) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb What if a driver has an accident and says I got the map from OSM and it states this is a primary route - so I expected it to have been suitable for my journey.' ? Why doesn't OSM seem to care about the quality of the mapping - marking roads arbitrarily to someone else's classifications rather than as per what appears on the ground ? -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK Qarterly Project: Fix that Road name!
I'm not sure what a Qarterly Project is but... On 13 January 2015 at 15:26, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote: We're two weeks in to this experiment and it would be good to hear any feedback. In the West Midlands since we started this project in this quarter we've completed Wolverhampton Walsall and Sandwell. Wolverhampton was done by contacting a user on the ground to check a road name, which they did. Dudley still has 4 roads to correctly name (3 of them on what looks like a new development - so one visit might complete the town). Coventry still has 38 names to go and has proved a perennial challenge to us - none of the regulars at our mappa mercia meeting lives or works there and it's proven difficult to enthuse mappers on the ground in the past but we shall try again - 38 names is not a lot after all! Perhaps we'll contact some local community groups. Let us know what you've been doing and any ideas you've got to accelerate progress on this task If any folk from ITOworld are reading this - can we have an update on the data please? The previousone was on 3rd Jan. There are devious means to get hold of data. New development - visit the developer's website. They often have site plans - although numbering may be plot numbers than house numbers. Definitive map for public rights of way - I suspect will be publicly available nationally county by county. Includes house names and numbers - but do evaluate the data as it's not nececcerily accureate.[!!] -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Fwd: What are you mapping and have you fully though through the implications of bad data ?
I'll try again with this... ...third time lucky ? -- Forwarded message -- From: Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com Date: 1 January 2015 at 23:36 Subject: What are you mapping and have you fully though through the implications of bad data ? To: talk-gb Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org Hi all, OSM is a great idea and I'm having a lot of fun filling in data locally. It's annoying to add things to the database and find them not appearing on a general map - is there not an 'all data map' ? Sidewalks - which I've used to mark kerbs as they should be marked. This leads to why I left OSM years ago: The marking of roads by a single line - an easy and cheap solution. I'd planned to map by real data such that a road (carriageway) would be defined by the position of its boundaries (be they kerbs, hedges or walls etc.) Whose map are we drawing - the real one or some random person's interpretation of a 'map' ? It seems to be a bit of both where 'road classifications' are being randomly invented for the purpose of confusion. It's quite obvious it's not clear what is meant by each road classification and the specific names doesn't help. 'Trunk road' is a DfT term and has a specific meaning. It's a terrible practice to use the same terminology for your own definition of what one is - and it seems OSMers aren't exactly clear on what one is. That name needs changing. As for the other classifications, they're just meaningless names and have little use for a map user. The pretty colours maybe aid in road selection by accident. Should a map be the judge ? should the map just show what's really there on the ground and leave the map user to decide which is the best route and roads to use ? The answer to that is clearly yes and no ! It is wrong for mappers to prejudge a route and colour it accordingly, however it is really hand for the user to see routes more prominent on the map to guide the user along more favourable routes. There is a classification for motorway - because it's a distinctive route and has a different set of legislation. Dual carriageways also have a different set of legislation - so they too should have their own symbols. As for the rest of the roads, they shouldn't be judged or classified on the ad-hoc labelling that has gone before. As is recognised, an A road can have anywhere between one and six lanes inclusive which makes it a completely useless guide to the type of road it is and the suitability of it for each user type. If the map is to show roads by classification, then the classification needs to be based on reality and not historical classifications. I think all roads should be classified by 'speed' and speed alone (possibly!). I'll suggest some universal names and detail how to calculate their speed for the purposes of classification. Then perhaps we can have a heated debate about the whole topic! Motorway Excellent (road) Good Average poor bad. There, universal in English globally. Average to be locally 'determined' and the others based on that determination. In the UK, I'd consider: Excellent (Minimum 2 wide lanes; no steep gradients or tight curves and lit where desirable. Basically two on-coming 44T trucks would be able to maintain national speed limit at all points they may pass each other (with the exception of significant junctions/roundabouts) Good (Minimum 2 wide lanes but with cause to reduce speed here and there for whatever reason e.g. traffic lights, tight curves, gradients, narrowings, built-up areas etc.) local speed limits. No traffic type, width, weight, length or height restrictions Average (2 lanes minimum - opposing 44T trucks need to negotiate their passage but not stop, more curves, gradients, traffic lights and low speed limits (30mph) here and there) Poor (one wide lane minimum - enough for 2 cars to pass each other with negotiation and reduced speed. OK for medium-sized trucks but not 38-44T trucks Expect loads of hassle/stops in wider sections to let cars pass; a need to use the wrong side of the road both before and after a bend. Steep gradients needing low gears. No chance of getting up to national speed limit. Bad (one narrow lane, cars need to stop and pull over to let the other opposing one pass. Unsuitable for trucks other than for access. Track - effectively 'off-road' not tarmacked, rough, possibly soft etc. etc. What are the legal implications for OSM(F) on a map user having an accident as they've used what OSM shows as a trunk road but isn't ? Not only are there legal implications but also OSM's reputation as being a trustworthy map It is correct to label roads with *refs* (e.g. A1) but incorrect to rate (classify) the road based on someone else's labelling scheme. I have the same issues with footpaths. I'm using 'footpath' to be wheelchair-friendly and 'path' to be unfriendly - crossing fields or steps en-route. Make maps available for different transport users and services map (mailboxes, hydrants, underground services overhead
[Talk-GB] Tarmac / concrete / hard standing
Hi all, What's folks using to mark *area*s of 'hard standing' suitable for keeping a car on that's not a car park ? -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Fwd: Underground services
-- Forwarded message -- From: Pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com Date: 2 January 2015 at 00:04 Subject: Underground services To: talk-gb Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org Hi Again, Carry-over from previous message: plotting X,Y,Z (unit .5m/5m dashed lines purple, blue, yellow, brown, brown and black orange Underground services - I don't think there's much on these yet so how about: Purple for comms Yellow - gas Orange - electric Blue - fresh water Dark brown for foul sewerage Light brown for surface water Mid brown for a 'combined' sewer (both of the previous 2) Pipes to have diameter and fall (slope) tags And a depth indication... Here's my suggestions: Based on a 'unit' of 500mm of depth, an elec service at 1m deep would appear: (2 lengths of colour, 8 of 'no colour') or alternative format Comms @3m deep: (i.e. 6 half-metre units) or __ etc. Also, how do I go about getting a new set of sewer symbols e.g. Sewer - foul Sewer - surface - - - - diameter; fall, depth(m) direction Sewer - combined Sewer - gully - - - - type/ weir etc. Sewer - septic tank Sewer - pump(ing station) Sewer - manhole - - - type, shape(round, square, triangle, multi-lid) Sewer - Inspection chamber etc. I've a cousin that's seriously into drains and once I know this list can be generated, I'll ask her for what's necessary to accurately map and maintain them. Cheers. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
