Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[David Woolley]

[May be duplicate as email client crashed on submission.]

On 20/01/17 14:02, Dave F wrote:

They *reside* in a private back garden.
They don't in a communal or public park & certainly not in
nurseries/schools etc.

As I said previously, landuse=residential is being misused to represent
a suburban area or even whole towns.


I thought that, to avoid the overuse of mutipolygons, which are 
difficult for users to understand, and expensive to render, it was 
considered OK to place things normally found in residential areas, on 
top of the containing area.  Examples are schools, surgeries and parks, 
pubs, and isolated corner shops.




DaveF

On 20/01/2017 13:51, Dan S wrote:


Well OK, since you ask: that was the sound of me raising an eyebrow at
your line of argument! It struck me as rather flimsy. Do people reside
& sleep in my back garden? No, but I'm not going to snip it out of my
residential area...



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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Dave F]

They *reside* in a private back garden.
They don't in a communal or public park & certainly not in 
nurseries/schools etc.


As I said previously, landuse=residential is being misused to represent 
a suburban area or even whole towns.


DaveF

On 20/01/2017 13:51, Dan S wrote:


Well OK, since you ask: that was the sound of me raising an eyebrow at
your line of argument! It struck me as rather flimsy. Do people reside
& sleep in my back garden? No, but I'm not going to snip it out of my
residential area...



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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Dave F]

On 18/01/2017 14:36, Dan S wrote:

2017-01-18 13:51 GMT+00:00 Dave F :

Hi

Do people reside & sleep in the park or nursery?
If 'no' then is it really residential?

...!


...?

DaveF

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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Dan S]

2017-01-18 13:51 GMT+00:00 Dave F :
> Hi
>
> Do people reside & sleep in the park or nursery?
> If 'no' then is it really residential?

...!

> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dresidential
>
> As the database becomes more detailed/accurate the "granularity" gets
> smaller. Entities like 'residential' will have less blanket coverage, items
> will be individually tagged Which is what you note in another of your posts:
> "And the address of the nursery also includes "Queen's Park Court": "
> So the cover-all named residential area becomes redundant.

If you're aiming to remove the redundancy from OSM... good luck ;)

It makes perfect sense to me that there can be an identifiable area
whose name is "Queen's Park Court" and also that "Queen's Park Court"
would be a part of the address for some item within it.

Cheers
Dan



> Regarding the nursery I'd redraw the residential around it, map it's
> boundary fence as amenity=kindergarten, transfer all the address data to
> that polygon & tag the building with building=kindergarten. This is how the
> vast majority of the schools were tagged in the recent GB quarterly project.
>
> Cheers
> DaveF
>
> On 18/01/2017 11:24, Derick Rethans wrote:
>>
>> It's part of the residential estate, so I disagree with that. cheers,
>> Derick
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Dave F]

I agree & it's previously been pointed out that contributors are using 
OS opendata streetview, but I don't think it's correct usage of the tag.


isolated farms (I presume you mean farmyards) should be mapped as 
polygons & tag with landuse=farmyard.

Whole farms, including fields, should be landuse=farmland

Cheers
DaveF

On 18/01/2017 13:20, Andrew Hain wrote:


OSM is influenced by the maps its contributors see and are used to. In 
Britain that includes names of isolated farms on Ordnance Survey maps.




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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Dave F]

Hi

Do people reside & sleep in the park or nursery?
If 'no' then is it really residential?

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dresidential

As the database becomes more detailed/accurate the "granularity" gets 
smaller. Entities like 'residential' will have less blanket coverage, 
items will be individually tagged Which is what you note in another of 
your posts:

"And the address of the nursery also includes "Queen's Park Court": "
So the cover-all named residential area becomes redundant.

Regarding the nursery I'd redraw the residential around it, map it's 
boundary fence as amenity=kindergarten, transfer all the address data to 
that polygon & tag the building with building=kindergarten. This is how 
the vast majority of the schools were tagged in the recent GB quarterly 
project.


Cheers
DaveF

On 18/01/2017 11:24, Derick Rethans wrote:
It's part of the residential estate, so I disagree with that. cheers, 
Derick 



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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Andrew Hain]

OSM is influenced by the maps its contributors see and are used to. In Britain 
that includes names of isolated farms on Ordnance Survey maps.

--
Andrew

From: Dave F 
Sent: 17 January 2017 23:00:37
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

Please be aware this is the talk-GB forum.

Use of place=farm in Britain is almost certainly misguided. If anyone
knows of an appropriate location please post here.

It's not use of the tag itself that's the problem, it's contributor's
misinterpretation of it.

DaveF


On 17/01/2017 21:52, Warin wrote:
> On 18-Jan-17 07:27 AM, Dave F wrote:
>>
>> On 17/01/2017 19:38, Warin wrote:
>>
>>> Generally I add a node place=farm as I am not certain where the
>>> boundary lies
>>
>> This is a misuse of this tag. place=farm is for the rare (non
>> existent?) cases where a residential community, such as a hamlet, has
>> acquired the name of an adjacent farm. "a place named by a name of a
>> farm" - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Farm
>>
>> The description for
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dfarm is poorly written
>> & confusing.
>>
>> If mapping just the sheds/farmhouse etc of a farm, landuse=farmyard
>> should be used.
>>
>> It was discussed previously:
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2016-September/019181.html
>>
>>
>> DaveF
>
> In Australia .. place=farm is appropriate.
> The next farm may be 250 miles away, as such it usually has facilities
> for seasonal workers (say 20 people), machinery maintenance, air
> strip, ... etc.
> They are substantial places that are important in a mapping and social
> sense.
> Most still have the name painted on the roof to assist aerial navigation.
>
> Remember that OSM is world wide, you can define things locally .. but
> they won't fit everywhere, hence the OSMwiki fuzziness.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Derick Rethans]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Paul Sladen wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Dave F wrote:
> > On 17/01/2017 14:32, Derick Rethans wrote:
> > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/77260547
> >
> > I think this is inaccurate mapping. The buildings are called 'Queen's 
> > Park Court' The residential area should not include the grassed area or 
> > the nursery.
> 
> Residental areas normally are mapped so that they include the gardens
> belonging to the residences.  If the 'green space' is the 'gardens'
> for the surrounding tower blocks this is perhaps correct?

That is indeed the case.

> A solution might be to ask whether somebody living in Queen's Park
> Court would count the garden in the middle as being part of QPC?
> 
> For the nursery, it's could be less clear cut:  eg. is the nursey
> perhaps on the ground floor with housing above?

It is, sortof. The maps / signs around the estate do include the nursery 
and grassy area. And the address of the nursery also includes "Queen's 
Park Court": 
https://www.leyf.org.uk/find-a-nursery/westminster/katharine-bruce-community-nursery/#testimonials

Funnily, Google Maps gets both the location and the Street Names wrong 
in the area (the estate is on Ilbert Street, and not Droop Street).
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Katharine+Bruce+Community+Nursery/@51.5286397,-0.2150088,18z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x4876101629deff45:0x44043504afa2d948!2sDroop+St,+London+W10!3b1!8m2!3d51.5276284!4d-0.2119691!3m4!1s0x0:0x9668261a517ad8fd!8m2!3d51.5291225!4d-0.2141281?hl=en

There are more estates in the area, but I have not mapped them yet as 
such. For example:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/77260547#map=18/51.52966/-0.20654&layers=G


cheers,
Derick

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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Derick Rethans]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Dave F wrote:

> 
> On 17/01/2017 14:32, Derick Rethans wrote:
> > 
> > It is what I do too:
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/77260547
> 
> I think this is inaccurate mapping. The buildings are called 'Queen's Park
> Court' The residential area should not include the grassed area or the
> nursery.

It's part of the residential estate, so I disagree with that.

cheers,
Derick

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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Ed Loach]

DaveF wrote:

> Please be aware this is the talk-GB forum.
> 
> Use of place=farm in Britain is almost certainly misguided. If anyone
> knows of an appropriate location please post here.
> 
> It's not use of the tag itself that's the problem, it's contributor's
> misinterpretation of it.

When was it redefined? 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:place&oldid=373452
place=farm - A distinct identified farm at the node so tagged. In some 
countries the official type of a residential area smaller than a hamlet 
(Germany: Gehöft).

My reading of the proposal for place=isolated_dwelling
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/isolated_dwelling
is that place=isolated_dwelling is like place=farm but for places that aren't 
farms. This suggests the description on the place=farm wiki page is wrong.

Ed


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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Dave F]

Please be aware this is the talk-GB forum.

Use of place=farm in Britain is almost certainly misguided. If anyone 
knows of an appropriate location please post here.


It's not use of the tag itself that's the problem, it's contributor's 
misinterpretation of it.


DaveF


On 17/01/2017 21:52, Warin wrote:

On 18-Jan-17 07:27 AM, Dave F wrote:


On 17/01/2017 19:38, Warin wrote:

Generally I add a node place=farm as I am not certain where the 
boundary lies 


This is a misuse of this tag. place=farm is for the rare (non 
existent?) cases where a residential community, such as a hamlet, has 
acquired the name of an adjacent farm. "a place named by a name of a 
farm" - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Farm


The description for 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dfarm is poorly written 
& confusing.


If mapping just the sheds/farmhouse etc of a farm, landuse=farmyard 
should be used.


It was discussed previously: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2016-September/019181.html 



DaveF


In Australia .. place=farm is appropriate.
The next farm may be 250 miles away, as such it usually has facilities 
for seasonal workers (say 20 people), machinery maintenance, air 
strip, ... etc.
They are substantial places that are important in a mapping and social 
sense.

Most still have the name painted on the roof to assist aerial navigation.

Remember that OSM is world wide, you can define things locally .. but 
they won't fit everywhere, hence the OSMwiki fuzziness.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Andy Townsend]

On 17/01/2017 21:52, Warin wrote:


In Australia .. place=farm is appropriate.
The next farm may be 250 miles away, as such it usually has facilities 
for seasonal workers (say 20 people), machinery maintenance, air 
strip, ... etc.
They are substantial places that are important in a mapping and social 
sense. 


I'd totally agree with that.

In the UK there may be a few farms that are "places" in that sense too, 
but not many.  Unfortunately here some people have decided to add a 
"place=farm" node (often unnamed) on every remote cowshed they find, 
which isn't particularly helpful.


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Warin]

On 18-Jan-17 07:23 AM, Dan S wrote:
2017-01-17 19:50 GMT+00:00 Dave F >:



"The Bow Quarter" appears to be an attempt to posh up the area.
Gated communities scare me as the most dangerous people are
usually inside the fence.

DaveF


Oh indeed. You should see it: some rather interesting historical 
architecture, but fully gated and walled off and no way for an 
innocent mapper to get in. A gated community like that doesn't 
actually improve the area.


Dan



Some gated communities are government sponsored .. they are called prisons.
As an innocent mapper I map these from the satellite images .. and 
nothing else.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Warin]

On 18-Jan-17 07:27 AM, Dave F wrote:


On 17/01/2017 19:38, Warin wrote:

Generally I add a node place=farm as I am not certain where the 
boundary lies 


This is a misuse of this tag. place=farm is for the rare (non 
existent?) cases where a residential community, such as a hamlet, has 
acquired the name of an adjacent farm. "a place named by a name of a 
farm" - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Farm


The description for 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dfarm is poorly written 
& confusing.


If mapping just the sheds/farmhouse etc of a farm, landuse=farmyard 
should be used.


It was discussed previously: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2016-September/019181.html 



DaveF


In Australia .. place=farm is appropriate.
The next farm may be 250 miles away, as such it usually has facilities 
for seasonal workers (say 20 people), machinery maintenance, air strip, 
... etc.
They are substantial places that are important in a mapping and social 
sense.

Most still have the name painted on the roof to assist aerial navigation.

Remember that OSM is world wide, you can define things locally .. but 
they won't fit everywhere, hence the OSMwiki fuzziness.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Dave F]

On 17/01/2017 19:38, Warin wrote:

Generally I add a node place=farm as I am not certain where the 
boundary lies 


This is a misuse of this tag. place=farm is for the rare (non existent?) 
cases where a residential community, such as a hamlet, has acquired the 
name of an adjacent farm. "a place named by a name of a farm" - 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Farm


The description for http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dfarm 
is poorly written & confusing.


If mapping just the sheds/farmhouse etc of a farm, landuse=farmyard 
should be used.


It was discussed previously: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2016-September/019181.html 



DaveF


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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Dan S]

2017-01-17 19:50 GMT+00:00 Dave F :

>
> "The Bow Quarter" appears to be an attempt to posh up the area. Gated
> communities scare me as the most dangerous people are usually inside the
> fence.
>
> DaveF
>

Oh indeed. You should see it: some rather interesting historical
architecture, but fully gated and walled off and no way for an innocent
mapper to get in. A gated community like that doesn't actually improve the
area.

Dan
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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Paul Sladen]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Dave F wrote:
> On 17/01/2017 14:32, Derick Rethans wrote:
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/77260547
> I think this is inaccurate mapping. The buildings are called 'Queen's 
> Park Court' The residential area should not include the grassed area or 
> the nursery.

Residental areas normally are mapped so that they include the gardens
belonging to the residences.  If the 'green space' is the 'gardens'
for the surrounding tower blocks this is perhaps correct?

A solution might be to ask whether somebody living in Queen's Park
Court would count the garden in the middle as being part of QPC?

For the nursery, it's could be less clear cut:  eg. is the nursey
perhaps on the ground floor with housing above?

-Paul


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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Dave F]

On 17/01/2017 14:32, Derick Rethans wrote:


It is what I do too:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/77260547


I think this is inaccurate mapping. The buildings are called 'Queen's 
Park Court' The residential area should not include the grassed area or 
the nursery.


DaveF

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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Dave F]

For residential areas I agree. In this case place=* would be better. An 
area's name refers to all entities in the vicinity (schools, parks etc), 
not just where people live. Unfortunately landuse=residential is still 
misused to be all encompassing of an area or even whole towns.


"The Bow Quarter" appears to be an attempt to posh up the area. Gated 
communities scare me as the most dangerous people are usually inside the 
fence.


DaveF


On 17/01/2017 13:33, Andrew Hain wrote:

A recent changeset in southwest London
[https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/43807789] added names to 
landuse=residential and landuse=commercial polygons. The mapper has 
not responded to the changeset comment that I left some weeks ago. The 
names themselves read more like descriptions to me as a local and they 
were added to the existing polygons, which are somewhat arbitrary (you 
could micromap with a polygon for each block omitting all roads). 
These names appear on OSM-carto in italics.


What is a general view on when it makes sense to add a name to a 
landuse polygon?


--
Andrew


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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Warin]

On 18-Jan-17 01:23 AM, SK53 wrote:

I do use these from time to time. My usual use cases are:

  * Small named estates of social housing. These are common throughout
Greater London and the name is usually shown on boards around the
perimeter of each estate. Even for ones without such boards there
is often good evidence for the name (for instance Municpal Dreams'
blog on social housing often uses them). Conceivably these could
also be tagged place=neighbourhood, but I think that may be
misleading as they will usually be described as XXX Estate, YYY
Suburb.
  * Student Villages. Gated sets of apartment blocks marketed to
students only. Although a fairly recent innovation in the UK, they
often represent a significant, and historically interesting
development. These I also tag residential=student_village. There
are at least 5 within a mile of here.
  * Very well defined, named residential areas too small to be a
suburb. A pretty unusual occurrence because unlike the two cases
above boundaries are often subjective. In many cases these will be
discrete housing developments (private or social) which retain an
identity. Often the name will be a local_name, such as Sterling
Homes Estate, or the Wimpy Estate. A good example would be the
'Bomber Estate' in Maidenhead
. Again I tend to
avoid neighbourhood because what defines these places is often
just commonality of building types and time of the development.
  * Retail Parks & Shopping Centres.
  * Industrial Estates & Business Parks.
  * Farm names on landuse=farmyard. I much prefer this to place=farm.
I also often exclude the similarly named original farm house as
these are increasingly not part of the farm itself. Even if the
owner of the farm lives in the house it is unusual for them to
farm themselves.

I am just adding a landuse=farm with a name. And with produce=nut;fruit 
nut=macadamia fruit=avocado. In this case I have a good boundary and I 
have a fair amount of information about the place.
Generally I add a node place=farm as I am not certain where the boundary 
lies .. the next farm looks much like this one and I don't know which 
field is which farms.
Generally here the main farm residence carries the same name, and is 
used by the farm manager as their residence, I add a polygon as the 
building outline with building=farm, name=*.


Other uses include:

  * Area with both landuse and a place tag. Most often villages, but
some suburbs of Milton Keynes have been mapped that way. MK is
unusual in that the grid and area names are well-defined.
  * Field names (a few examples to the W of MK). One of these
 applies to a former
field which is now residential. Wrong in my view. (I really like
the idea of capturing current or former field names in OSM, but I
dont think this is the right way to do it).
  * Individual residential buildings. E.g., a hall of residence
 in London. Sometimes
unavoidable.

So to take the examples to hand:

  * The two Hurlingham elements may represent real local distinctions.
  * Retail areas. Many of these names will be in use although probably
in a) local planning documents; b) commercial estate agents and c)
retail professionals. Names used by locals may different and
harder to establish as accepted usage. In these cases it may be
that the name is better placed in an alternative name tag, showing
that the name is in use but only within specific communities or
use cases. Perhaps someone from Geolytix could provide input on
this subject as they have the relevant expertise. Alternatively
diligent searching in the local press and planning documents may
establish that the usage is current.

In short: in many cases names on landuse are a very convenient way of 
ensuring a name used for a location is available with OSM without 
having to precisely define it with other tags. In some cases the 
boundaries are very well defined and the area is also defined with 
other tags such as place=*.


Jerry



On 17 January 2017 at 13:33, Andrew Hain > wrote:


A recent changeset in southwest London
[https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/43807789
] added names to
landuse=residential and landuse=commercial polygons. The mapper
has not responded to the changeset comment that I left some weeks
ago. The names themselves read more like descriptions to me as a
local and they were added to the existing polygons, which are
somewhat arbitrary (you could micromap with a polygon for each
block omitting all roads). These names appear on OSM-carto in italics.

What is a general view on when it makes sense to add a name to a
landuse polygon?

 

Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Derick Rethans]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Dan S wrote:

> Colin, do you have your own preferred style for how to tag a named
> housing estate in a city for example? I use landuse=residential for
> this (e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/51736709 though that one
> wasn't by me) and I feel it a very appropriate style. It can easily be
> carved out of a larger resi area if needed, and I'm not aware of any
> drawback of that.

It is what I do too:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/77260547

cheers,
Derick

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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[SK53]

I do use these from time to time. My usual use cases are:


   - Small named estates of social housing. These are common throughout
   Greater London and the name is usually shown on boards around the perimeter
   of each estate. Even for ones without such boards there is often good
   evidence for the name (for instance Municpal Dreams' blog on social housing
   often uses them). Conceivably these could also be tagged
   place=neighbourhood, but I think that may be misleading as they will
   usually be described as XXX Estate, YYY Suburb.
   - Student Villages. Gated sets of apartment blocks marketed to students
   only. Although a fairly recent innovation in the UK, they often represent a
   significant, and historically interesting development. These I also tag
   residential=student_village. There are at least 5 within a mile of here.
   - Very well defined, named residential areas too small to be a suburb. A
   pretty unusual occurrence because unlike the two cases above boundaries are
   often subjective. In many cases these will be discrete housing developments
   (private or social) which retain an identity. Often the name will be a
   local_name, such as Sterling Homes Estate, or the Wimpy Estate. A good
   example would be the 'Bomber Estate' in Maidenhead
   . Again I tend to avoid
   neighbourhood because what defines these places is often just commonality
   of building types and time of the development.
   - Retail Parks & Shopping Centres.
   - Industrial Estates & Business Parks.
   - Farm names on landuse=farmyard. I much prefer this to place=farm. I
   also often exclude the similarly named original farm house as these are
   increasingly not part of the farm itself. Even if the owner of the farm
   lives in the house it is unusual for them to farm themselves.

Other uses include:

   - Area with both landuse and a place tag. Most often villages, but some
   suburbs of Milton Keynes have been mapped that way. MK is unusual in that
   the grid and area names are well-defined.
   - Field names (a few examples to the W of MK). One of these
    applies to a former field
   which is now residential. Wrong in my view. (I really like the idea of
   capturing current or former field names in OSM, but I dont think this is
   the right way to do it).
   - Individual residential buildings. E.g., a hall of residence
    in London. Sometimes
   unavoidable.

So to take the examples to hand:

   - The two Hurlingham elements may represent real local distinctions.
   - Retail areas. Many of these names will be in use although probably in
   a) local planning documents; b) commercial estate agents and c) retail
   professionals. Names used by locals may different and harder to establish
   as accepted usage. In these cases it may be that the name is better placed
   in an alternative name tag, showing that the name is in use but only within
   specific communities or use cases. Perhaps someone from Geolytix could
   provide input on this subject as they have the relevant expertise.
   Alternatively diligent searching in the local press and planning documents
   may establish that the usage is current.

In short: in many cases names on landuse are a very convenient way of
ensuring a name used for a location is available with OSM without having to
precisely define it with other tags. In some cases the boundaries are very
well defined and the area is also defined with other tags such as place=*.

Jerry



On 17 January 2017 at 13:33, Andrew Hain 
wrote:

> A recent changeset in southwest London
> [https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/43807789] added names to
> landuse=residential and landuse=commercial polygons. The mapper has not
> responded to the changeset comment that I left some weeks ago. The names
> themselves read more like descriptions to me as a local and they were added
> to the existing polygons, which are somewhat arbitrary (you could micromap
> with a polygon for each block omitting all roads). These names appear on
> OSM-carto in italics.
>
> What is a general view on when it makes sense to add a name to a landuse
> polygon?
>
> --
> Andrew
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Dan S]

Colin, do you have your own preferred style for how to tag a named
housing estate in a city for example? I use landuse=residential for
this (e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/51736709 though that one
wasn't by me) and I feel it a very appropriate style. It can easily be
carved out of a larger resi area if needed, and I'm not aware of any
drawback of that.

Cheers
Dan

2017-01-17 13:44 GMT+00:00 Colin Smale :
> Can't think of any justification for name on landuse. The boundary of a
> village may be co-linear with the built-up area, so the "place" boundary may
> be co-linear with the "landuse=residential",  but they are not the same
> object and should not be conflated into a single OSM object from some
> (misguided?) principle of saving space in the database or whatever.
>
>
>
> //colin
>
> On 2017-01-17 14:33, Andrew Hain wrote:
>
> A recent changeset in southwest London
> [https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/43807789] added names to
> landuse=residential and landuse=commercial polygons. The mapper has not
> responded to the changeset comment that I left some weeks ago. The names
> themselves read more like descriptions to me as a local and they were added
> to the existing polygons, which are somewhat arbitrary (you could micromap
> with a polygon for each block omitting all roads). These names appear on
> OSM-carto in italics.
>
> What is a general view on when it makes sense to add a name to a landuse
> polygon?
>
> --
> Andrew
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Dan S]

Hi Andrew,

Well, my 2p: I like to name landuse=residential when it corresponds to
a delineated housing estate or whatever. I agree that as in this case
they're almost always "somewhat arbitrary" (only rarely do we have
access to some official polygon corresponding to a housing estate or
retail area) though I don't think that makes them bad edits
necessarily.
In the case of this changeset, my question would be whether the names
are really names (either in local use or officially) - and you're
better placed to judge that than I am.

Actually, the "Sheen Lane Centre" tagging in particular looks odd
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/8152525 - name applied to multiple
footways rather than one area - and this implies that the mapper has
been naming whatever objects are already there, rather than
creating/carving off appropriate patches, so I can see why you raise
an eyebrow.

Best
Dan


2017-01-17 13:33 GMT+00:00 Andrew Hain :
> A recent changeset in southwest London
> [https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/43807789] added names to
> landuse=residential and landuse=commercial polygons. The mapper has not
> responded to the changeset comment that I left some weeks ago. The names
> themselves read more like descriptions to me as a local and they were added
> to the existing polygons, which are somewhat arbitrary (you could micromap
> with a polygon for each block omitting all roads). These names appear on
> OSM-carto in italics.
>
> What is a general view on when it makes sense to add a name to a landuse
> polygon?
>
> --
> Andrew
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>

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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Colin Smale]

Can't think of any justification for name on landuse. The boundary of a
village may be co-linear with the built-up area, so the "place" boundary
may be co-linear with the "landuse=residential",  but they are not the
same object and should not be conflated into a single OSM object from
some (misguided?) principle of saving space in the database or whatever.

//colin 

On 2017-01-17 14:33, Andrew Hain wrote:

> A recent changeset in southwest London
> [https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/43807789] added names to 
> landuse=residential and landuse=commercial polygons. The mapper has not 
> responded to the changeset comment that I left some weeks ago. The names 
> themselves read more like descriptions to me as a local and they were added 
> to the existing polygons, which are somewhat arbitrary (you could micromap 
> with a polygon for each block omitting all roads). These names appear on 
> OSM-carto in italics.
> 
> What is a general view on when it makes sense to add a name to a landuse 
> polygon?
> 
> --
> Andrew
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb___
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[Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

[Andrew Hain]

A recent changeset in southwest London
[https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/43807789] added names to 
landuse=residential and landuse=commercial polygons. The mapper has not 
responded to the changeset comment that I left some weeks ago. The names 
themselves read more like descriptions to me as a local and they were added to 
the existing polygons, which are somewhat arbitrary (you could micromap with a 
polygon for each block omitting all roads). These names appear on OSM-carto in 
italics.

What is a general view on when it makes sense to add a name to a landuse 
polygon?

--
Andrew
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