Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
I think Rory has a script that is adding the Irish names for everything based on Loganim data cross referenced by townland, its CP, Barony and county. I would assume that there is a quantity that are not showing as matching. This may flag up the ones you are talking about too but I'm saying this based on some assumptions on how his script works. Dave On 14 Feb 2017 16:24, "Brian Tuffy" wrote: > Hi all, > I found a lot of typos in townland names in county Mayo and i presume it is > similar in other counties. As of 12.01.2017, About 4.3% of townlands in > Mayo have a mistake in the spelling. That is roughly 130 townland names > just for Mayo! I think that is something important we can correct now that > the hard work of mapping the townlands is done. > > Before, I was correcting them as I came across them but I think a more > systematic approach is needed to double check names and also why i want the > community to help, share ideas on how to do it and check each others work. > It is understandable that mistakes were made since it is sometimes > difficult to read the GSGS30906 war maps source. So what I am talking about > here, is spelling mistakes in copying the townland names from the source. > > So here are my questions; > How do we go about cross-checking the names of townlands (also parishes, > DED's etc)? > What sources can we use? 1911 census list of townlands? the war maps can > still be the original source of townland names. Can we legally use the data > on pobal.ie to cross-check spelling? Although unlikely, can we even > extract > the other data there (townland id)? Is that useful ? > > Are you interested in checking the names in your county? > > Here I propose my way of checking townland names: > The principle was to compare the OSM list of townlands to other lists and > identify if the names match or are unique entries. The unique entries are > possible mistakes. > I downloaded the townland list for Mayo from townlands.ie and I am > currently trying to compare the list to other sources. I have the draft > list of townlands in Mayo from Loganim.ie and a townlands list from > pobal.ie > (possibly copyrighted list ). Anyway, once the possible mistakes are > highlighted, (Excel - conditional formatting) we can go back to the war > maps source and check the correct spelling. It takes a lot of work, i.e. > formatting, false positives, we have to respect local names of townlands > etc. > > Besides typos, this method can also be used to add the irish names of > townlands, identify missing townlands not yet added and much more. > > Please let me know what you think. My corrections for Co. Mayo are nearly > complete and I plan to upload them soon. > Ok, Thanks for reading, > > Brian > Username: OscarBrownbread > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
Hi, I corrected at least one - Kiltalown in Dublin- after checking with Rory: http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4513764 However, in dealing with 60,000+ names, we need to be careful and not assume that all the mistakes are in the OSM data entry - it may be that there are errors in other sources, e.g. "Little Island" in Cork shows up some older Ordnance Survey maps as "LITTLEISLAND", which is somewhat obviously incorrectly spaced: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,575522,571859,9,8 http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6514445 Colm --- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
just to follow up on my own post, another way to tackle this is to take a look at Rory's Loganim import page on townlands.ie which I highly recommend you take a look at. https://www.townlands.ie/static/logainm/ Each red x on these pages means that the loganim irish names tags are not in OSM for that place. As far as I know, they were automatically added for the places where the names in Loganim list matched those in OSM (or at least id's matched?). So a red x can indicate that there is a spelling mismatch or the place is missing. It's a good place to start if you want to correct typo's in place names. Brian T On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Brian Tuffy wrote: > Hi all, > I found a lot of typos in townland names in county Mayo and i presume it > is similar in other counties. As of 12.01.2017, About 4.3% of townlands in > Mayo have a mistake in the spelling. That is roughly 130 townland names > just for Mayo! I think that is something important we can correct now that > the hard work of mapping the townlands is done. > > Before, I was correcting them as I came across them but I think a more > systematic approach is needed to double check names and also why i want the > community to help, share ideas on how to do it and check each others work. > It is understandable that mistakes were made since it is sometimes > difficult to read the GSGS30906 war maps source. So what I am talking about > here, is spelling mistakes in copying the townland names from the source. > > So here are my questions; > How do we go about cross-checking the names of townlands (also parishes, > DED's etc)? > What sources can we use? 1911 census list of townlands? the war maps can > still be the original source of townland names. Can we legally use the data > on pobal.ie to cross-check spelling? Although unlikely, can we even > extract the other data there (townland id)? Is that useful ? > > Are you interested in checking the names in your county? > > Here I propose my way of checking townland names: > The principle was to compare the OSM list of townlands to other lists and > identify if the names match or are unique entries. The unique entries are > possible mistakes. > I downloaded the townland list for Mayo from townlands.ie and I am > currently trying to compare the list to other sources. I have the draft > list of townlands in Mayo from Loganim.ie and a townlands list from > pobal.ie (possibly copyrighted list ). Anyway, once the possible mistakes > are highlighted, (Excel - conditional formatting) we can go back to the war > maps source and check the correct spelling. It takes a lot of work, i.e. > formatting, false positives, we have to respect local names of townlands > etc. > > Besides typos, this method can also be used to add the irish names of > townlands, identify missing townlands not yet added and much more. > > Please let me know what you think. My corrections for Co. Mayo are nearly > complete and I plan to upload them soon. > Ok, Thanks for reading, > > Brian > Username: OscarBrownbread > > > > > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
Hi Colm, Thanks for your addition, every little helps! I agree with you that we must not assume that the mistake is always in the OSM entry. Often the entry in OSM is of greater value, even if it does not match any official names, for example, I have added the local name of a townland "Guesdian" I know this is the name everyone uses and it is the name on the townland marker-stone in the area. However the official name is "Geesadan" and there are alternative names such as "Gweeshadan" all for the same place. So we have to be very careful correcting names! I recommend to use local_name= and alt_name= tags where possible. We can check the version history of a townland relation (version #) and if the name does not change since it was first added, then I can assume that a local name was not added. The typos occurred when copying the name from the maps because they are hard to read. I think 4.3% error in names is actually impressively low. The obvious way to identify a typo is to check if any of the names in the relation exactly match the original townlands map source. Those names should be present in some form, possible alt_name or something. http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/ and click mapwrapper GSGS3906 Cheers, Brian T On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Colm Moore wrote: > Hi, > > > I corrected at least one - Kiltalown in Dublin- after checking with Rory: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4513764 > > > However, in dealing with 60,000+ names, we need to be careful and not > assume that all the mistakes are in the OSM data entry - it may be that > there are errors in other sources, e.g. "Little Island" in Cork shows up > some older Ordnance Survey maps as "LITTLEISLAND", which is somewhat > obviously incorrectly spaced: > > > http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,575522,571859,9,8 > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6514445 > > > Colm > > > > --- > Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can > change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
OSI released townland opendata, which we can also use for comparisons. I've a viewer to compare OSM and OSI here: http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/os_opendata.html?zoom=14&lat=53.26797&lon=-6.38816&layers=B0FTTFF Donal On 15 February 2017 at 16:22, Brian Tuffy wrote: > Hi Colm, > Thanks for your addition, every little helps! > I agree with you that we must not assume that the mistake is always in the > OSM entry. Often the entry in OSM is of greater value, even if it does not > match any official names, for example, I have added the local name of a > townland "Guesdian" I know this is the name everyone uses and it is the > name on the townland marker-stone in the area. However the official name is > "Geesadan" and there are alternative names such as "Gweeshadan" all for the > same place. So we have to be very careful correcting names! > I recommend to use local_name= and alt_name= tags where possible. We can > check the version history of a townland relation (version #) and if the > name does not change since it was first added, then I can assume that a > local name was not added. The typos occurred when copying the name from the > maps because they are hard to read. I think 4.3% error in names is actually > impressively low. > > The obvious way to identify a typo is to check if any of the names in the > relation exactly match the original townlands map source. Those names > should be present in some form, possible alt_name or something. > http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/ and click mapwrapper GSGS3906 > > Cheers, > Brian T > > > > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Colm Moore > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I corrected at least one - Kiltalown in Dublin- after checking with > Rory: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4513764 > > > > > > However, in dealing with 60,000+ names, we need to be careful and not > > assume that all the mistakes are in the OSM data entry - it may be that > > there are errors in other sources, e.g. "Little Island" in Cork shows up > > some older Ordnance Survey maps as "LITTLEISLAND", which is somewhat > > obviously incorrectly spaced: > > > > > > http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,575522,571859,9,8 > > > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6514445 > > > > > > Colm > > > > > > > > --- > > Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can > > change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret > Mead > > ___ > > Talk-ie mailing list > > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
Hi! On 15/02/17 16:36, Brian Tuffy wrote: > just to follow up on my own post, another way to tackle this is to take a > look at Rory's Loganim import page on townlands.ie which I highly recommend > you take a look at. > https://www.townlands.ie/static/logainm/ > > Each red x on these pages means that the loganim irish names tags are not > in OSM for that place. > As far as I know, they were automatically added for the places where the > names in Loganim list matched those in OSM (or at least id's matched?). So > a red x can indicate that there is a spelling mismatch or the place is > missing. > It's a good place to start if you want to correct typo's in place names. Minor point, that page doesn't look at the name, but at the "logainm:ref" tag. If there's a "logainm:ref" tag, then it gets a green tick, red X means no logainm:ref. That page is updated every morning. The (ongoing) Logainm data match up and import (wiki page[1], script source code[2]), looks at the logainm:ref tag and added the name:ga tags from logainm if needed. That script will also look at the name (or name:en) tag and try to match it up to what's in logainm and set the logainm:ref tag as appropriate. If there is a typo in the name (or OSM and Logainm disagree about the name), then it won't be able to set the logainm:ref tag, and hence there'll be a red X there. I'm going to run that script again this weekend at the Karlsruhe Hack Weekend. Perhaps I will look at that OSi open data and try to find places where OSM & OSi (and maybe Logainm!) disagree. We have ~60,000 townlands, maybe filtering that list down to smaller list of "possible problems" will be easier. [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logainm_Import [2] https://github.com/osmie/logainm-osm-import ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
That sounds like a good idea. If possible, it would be useful if it would link to the townland relation to allow easy editing. Once that smaller list is compiled its a matter of going through them one by one and identifying the correct name whether that be in OSM, OSi, Loganim or the map sheet On 16 Feb 2017 12:37, "Rory McCann" wrote: > Hi! > > On 15/02/17 16:36, Brian Tuffy wrote: > > just to follow up on my own post, another way to tackle this is to take a > > look at Rory's Loganim import page on townlands.ie which I highly > recommend > > you take a look at. > > https://www.townlands.ie/static/logainm/ > > > > Each red x on these pages means that the loganim irish names tags are not > > in OSM for that place. > > As far as I know, they were automatically added for the places where the > > names in Loganim list matched those in OSM (or at least id's matched?). > So > > a red x can indicate that there is a spelling mismatch or the place is > > missing. > > It's a good place to start if you want to correct typo's in place names. > > > Minor point, that page doesn't look at the name, but at the > "logainm:ref" tag. If there's a "logainm:ref" tag, then it gets a green > tick, red X means no logainm:ref. That page is updated every morning. > > The (ongoing) Logainm data match up and import (wiki page[1], script > source code[2]), looks at the logainm:ref tag and added the name:ga tags > from logainm if needed. That script will also look at the name (or > name:en) tag and try to match it up to what's in logainm and set the > logainm:ref tag as appropriate. If there is a typo in the name (or OSM > and Logainm disagree about the name), then it won't be able to set the > logainm:ref tag, and hence there'll be a red X there. > > I'm going to run that script again this weekend at the Karlsruhe Hack > Weekend. Perhaps I will look at that OSi open data and try to find > places where OSM & OSi (and maybe Logainm!) disagree. We have ~60,000 > townlands, maybe filtering that list down to smaller list of "possible > problems" will be easier. > > > [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logainm_Import > [2] https://github.com/osmie/logainm-osm-import > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
There is also a umap at http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/townlands-missing-logainm-data_83833 which displays townlands without a logainm:ref tag. This might be useful in helping to locate townlands with typos. Bear in mind that it only displays data above zoom 11 (to try to reduce browser slowdowns). Mark On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 at 10:42 Dave Corley wrote: > That sounds like a good idea. > > If possible, it would be useful if it would link to the townland relation > to allow easy editing. > > Once that smaller list is compiled its a matter of going through them one > by one and identifying the correct name whether that be in OSM, OSi, > Loganim or the map sheet > > On 16 Feb 2017 12:37, "Rory McCann" wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > On 15/02/17 16:36, Brian Tuffy wrote: > > > just to follow up on my own post, another way to tackle this is to > take a > > > look at Rory's Loganim import page on townlands.ie which I highly > > recommend > > > you take a look at. > > > https://www.townlands.ie/static/logainm/ > > > > > > Each red x on these pages means that the loganim irish names tags are > not > > > in OSM for that place. > > > As far as I know, they were automatically added for the places where > the > > > names in Loganim list matched those in OSM (or at least id's matched?). > > So > > > a red x can indicate that there is a spelling mismatch or the place is > > > missing. > > > It's a good place to start if you want to correct typo's in place > names. > > > > > > Minor point, that page doesn't look at the name, but at the > > "logainm:ref" tag. If there's a "logainm:ref" tag, then it gets a green > > tick, red X means no logainm:ref. That page is updated every morning. > > > > The (ongoing) Logainm data match up and import (wiki page[1], script > > source code[2]), looks at the logainm:ref tag and added the name:ga tags > > from logainm if needed. That script will also look at the name (or > > name:en) tag and try to match it up to what's in logainm and set the > > logainm:ref tag as appropriate. If there is a typo in the name (or OSM > > and Logainm disagree about the name), then it won't be able to set the > > logainm:ref tag, and hence there'll be a red X there. > > > > I'm going to run that script again this weekend at the Karlsruhe Hack > > Weekend. Perhaps I will look at that OSi open data and try to find > > places where OSM & OSi (and maybe Logainm!) disagree. We have ~60,000 > > townlands, maybe filtering that list down to smaller list of "possible > > problems" will be easier. > > > > > > [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logainm_Import > > [2] https://github.com/osmie/logainm-osm-import > > > > ___ > > Talk-ie mailing list > > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 16/02/17 16:40, Mark Tully wrote: > There is also a umap at > http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/townlands-missing-logainm-data_838 33 > > which displays townlands without a logainm:ref tag. This might be usefu l > in helping to locate townlands with typos. Bear in mind that it > only displays data above zoom 11 (to try to reduce browser > slowdowns). > > Mark That's pretty cool! I've done overpass queries to find CPs/etc which don't have a logainm:ref, but not umap like that. Yes you can add/change the name tag on OSM, but if you manage to find the townland on logainm, you can directly add the logainm:ref tag yourself. The loganm match up code looks at counties, then baronies, then civil parishes, then townlands. So if it cannot match up a CP in OSM with Logainm, it's not able to match up any of those townlands in the CP. It's look at the name, but if there's a logainm:ref, it'll use that instead. If you add logainm:ref tags to civil parishes, then it might be able to add logainm details to more townlands. (BTW it doesn't work over https, and if you have the HTTPS Everywhere extension like I do :) ) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYpctKAAoJEOrWdmeZivv2ImAH/1xnRM+3wm0/pGuZ5osbajjD GmH7j9Derka6VShOktDBhPAllYoKbfaz/5E/Zxnuix5AiuMZvTcMq9AWtYHktlU2 YfCdPMgrr7qmCxuz3uiVyY7DxsFeFiGnqGPCGythLDImAa8zprPGCzTfrJkv8fSa 2QXkcXYXfpHOotZeh8scG9nzUhw6goDfh3TeA0FY2HAmrNR+l9AKaKe1yzsiGkUm rKrB2z6yf+pibIhtOp4iBal76tPfhxhGTUe56ve0qQ5sgJ4ytuElwgRb2WlPOFfc HyWnq6Ye/iPDn/+x0bcq0jpYh59cZbEPQ1NGUZvoEiMKuTUGcrY0av1IM878iUs= =hmDW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
I believe it doesn't work over https because overpass.openstreetmap.ie (which is being used for the querying) doesn't support https, though I'm open to correction on that. The overpass-api.de server does support it, but I've found it to be a little slower for this map. Mark On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 at 15:55 Rory McCann wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 16/02/17 16:40, Mark Tully wrote: > > There is also a umap at > > http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/townlands-missing-logainm-data_838 > 33 > > > > > which displays townlands without a logainm:ref tag. This might be usefu > l > > in helping to locate townlands with typos. Bear in mind that it > > only displays data above zoom 11 (to try to reduce browser > > slowdowns). > > > > Mark > > That's pretty cool! I've done overpass queries to find CPs/etc which > don't have a logainm:ref, but not umap like that. > > Yes you can add/change the name tag on OSM, but if you manage to find > the townland on logainm, you can directly add the logainm:ref tag > yourself. > > The loganm match up code looks at counties, then baronies, then civil > parishes, then townlands. So if it cannot match up a CP in OSM with > Logainm, it's not able to match up any of those townlands in the CP. > It's look at the name, but if there's a logainm:ref, it'll use that > instead. > > If you add logainm:ref tags to civil parishes, then it might be able > to add logainm details to more townlands. > > (BTW it doesn't work over https, and if you have the HTTPS Everywhere > extension like I do :) ) > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYpctKAAoJEOrWdmeZivv2ImAH/1xnRM+3wm0/pGuZ5osbajjD > GmH7j9Derka6VShOktDBhPAllYoKbfaz/5E/Zxnuix5AiuMZvTcMq9AWtYHktlU2 > YfCdPMgrr7qmCxuz3uiVyY7DxsFeFiGnqGPCGythLDImAa8zprPGCzTfrJkv8fSa > 2QXkcXYXfpHOotZeh8scG9nzUhw6goDfh3TeA0FY2HAmrNR+l9AKaKe1yzsiGkUm > rKrB2z6yf+pibIhtOp4iBal76tPfhxhGTUe56ve0qQ5sgJ4ytuElwgRb2WlPOFfc > HyWnq6Ye/iPDn/+x0bcq0jpYh59cZbEPQ1NGUZvoEiMKuTUGcrY0av1IM878iUs= > =hmDW > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
Thanks for the OSM OSI comparison map, this is great for showing up mistakes in the townland boundaries and I even found a missing townland or two. This umap seems pretty cool too. I notice that many townlands without logainm tags are because of the typos. Fixing those should allow the script to do its thing. I can see a CP with a typo in it's name and because of that, none of the townlands in it have logainm tags yet. I have a question about the logainm script, How can it handle a barony that crosses a county border? For example, Barony of Ross crosses the Galway-Mayo border as one relation. This relation has one logainm tag for Ross in Mayo (logainm:ref = 172) but there are separate loganim ref numbers for Ross in Galway (logainm:ref = 85) on the logainm website. Can we somehow add both ref numbers to the Barony relation? something like logainm:ref=172;85, or what do you suggest? It seems that the script assumes everything is nested inside counties but if baronies/civil parishes cross county borders, then they have two logainm ref numbers. https://www.logainm.ie/en/85 Galway https://www.logainm.ie/en/172 Mayo https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4128697 On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Mark Tully wrote: > I believe it doesn't work over https because overpass.openstreetmap.ie > (which is being used for the querying) doesn't support https, though I'm > open to correction on that. The overpass-api.de server does support it, > but I've found it to be a little slower for this map. > > Mark > > On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 at 15:55 Rory McCann wrote: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 16/02/17 16:40, Mark Tully wrote: > > > There is also a umap at > > > http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/townlands-missing-logainm-data_838 > > 33 > > > > > > > > which displays townlands without a logainm:ref tag. This might be usefu > > l > > > in helping to locate townlands with typos. Bear in mind that it > > > only displays data above zoom 11 (to try to reduce browser > > > slowdowns). > > > > > > Mark > > > > That's pretty cool! I've done overpass queries to find CPs/etc which > > don't have a logainm:ref, but not umap like that. > > > > Yes you can add/change the name tag on OSM, but if you manage to find > > the townland on logainm, you can directly add the logainm:ref tag > > yourself. > > > > The loganm match up code looks at counties, then baronies, then civil > > parishes, then townlands. So if it cannot match up a CP in OSM with > > Logainm, it's not able to match up any of those townlands in the CP. > > It's look at the name, but if there's a logainm:ref, it'll use that > > instead. > > > > If you add logainm:ref tags to civil parishes, then it might be able > > to add logainm details to more townlands. > > > > (BTW it doesn't work over https, and if you have the HTTPS Everywhere > > extension like I do :) ) > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYpctKAAoJEOrWdmeZivv2ImAH/1xnRM+3wm0/pGuZ5osbajjD > > GmH7j9Derka6VShOktDBhPAllYoKbfaz/5E/Zxnuix5AiuMZvTcMq9AWtYHktlU2 > > YfCdPMgrr7qmCxuz3uiVyY7DxsFeFiGnqGPCGythLDImAa8zprPGCzTfrJkv8fSa > > 2QXkcXYXfpHOotZeh8scG9nzUhw6goDfh3TeA0FY2HAmrNR+l9AKaKe1yzsiGkUm > > rKrB2z6yf+pibIhtOp4iBal76tPfhxhGTUe56ve0qQ5sgJ4ytuElwgRb2WlPOFfc > > HyWnq6Ye/iPDn/+x0bcq0jpYh59cZbEPQ1NGUZvoEiMKuTUGcrY0av1IM878iUs= > > =hmDW > > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > > ___ > > Talk-ie mailing list > > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
Today I hope to upload my list of typo changes for Mayo to OSM. When Rory runs his Logainm script tomorrow, I hope that it will add more logainm tags because of this, let's see. Most of the typos are just alternative spellings, The list here are just the ones that I plan to overwrite. There could be a valid local spelling of a name that I have missed. I challenge you guys to check my "Typos" column for a valid townland name spelling. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wobpofwXzLdkPyB8mjMT1sDMQuZiO gebR4S94yvbzU4/edit?usp=sharing I manually checked the names to make sure I am not overwriting valid names. I learned a lot about the structure of the names, false positive (i.e. name mismatches that are not typos but valid alternative spellings or alternative name structure)... and so I wanted to share those with everyone. I hope this will help others who attempt to correct typos, and help those working on automating the process in the future. My assumptions: (1) I assume that the GSGS3906 1:25k War Office map sheets, are the original source of townland names and the spellings are valid names. (2) There can be multiple valid names for one townland. Valid name(s) can be from: the map source, a structure variation (e.g. X East, East X, Upper X Island West More, etc.), a local/commonly-used name (e.g. Bellavarry is commonly written as Ballyvary, both are valid and so should not be overwritten), (3) With the correct spelling of townland names, the Logainm script should be able to automatically add logainm tags. A lack of logainm tags is an indication that something is up with the name. After the typos are fixed, any remaining townlands without tags can be added manually. Islands are not included, yet. Guidelines: (A) Make double sure that the typo is a mistake and not a valid alternative name as I outline below. (B) Try to keep the names where possible by adding alt_name, loc_name or old_name tags. (C) Try to keep consistent naming schemes. For example, If there is an "X More Island", then also try to keep "X Beg Island" and not "Xbeg Island", Its not always possible though, I would not create a new name just to be consistent. (D) Its sometimes ok to keep invalid names, if they are common spelling errors and there is proof that it is in use. For example, "Srahcorick" gets a few search hits. "Srahacorick" is the correct spelling but I recommend not adding the alt_name in this example. An example where I would add an alt_name is "Bohea", official correct spelling is "Boheh". Local names often come from spelling mistakes that become popular. (E) The name= tag is the one that is usually displayed/dominant. I suggest that the order of "importance" for this is local name > other names. If someone knows a local or commonly used name of a place, they should use loc_name=, but often they just replace the name= tag. (This is all debatable, which name tags to use? alt_name is for townlands that have 2 official names. I also use alt_name for valid spelling variations. name:en may also be used etc.) How to identify Typos: (1) Compare the list of townlands to the openOSI and other sources. Logainm (derived from OSI), local authorities, etc. (2) Visually identify them in your area, http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/os_opendata.html (3) Missing Logainm tags indicate a name mismatch. http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/townlands-missing- logainm-data_83833#11/53.9650/-9.2107 How to check that the "typo" is a mistake: (1) Check if it is an alternative spelling or alternative name. (see below) (2) Check the map source. (3) It may be obvious why the typo occurred. Is the mis-typed letter hard to read?, blocked?, or a common mistake? (See common mistakes). This is only an indication but it helps. (4) If the name on the map source does not match any in the relation (even as alt_name), this indicates that it was misspelled when first copied or possibly overwritten. (4) To check if it was overwritten, check the relation history on OSM, if the name did not change at all, it is likely that it was misspelled when first copied. (5) Do a web search for the name (be sure it is the correct townland), if there are lots (> 50 maybe) of webpage posts with that spelling, no matter how wrong you think it is, it is likely a valid name spelling. Be aware that some websites just use OSM data so there will always be a few hits. Alternative names or 'typos that are not typos': (A) Many townlands have two official names on the map source, "Ballindoo or Doocastle". Both are valid, We should try to find out which one is commonly-used/dominant and use that one in the name= tag and the other in the alt_name= tag. (B) A name structure variation is valid, "East X" = "X East". We don't have to add every variation but if you come across them, you can add them. The idea is that if someone searches for a townland, we want them to find it no matter what variation they use. The example above is trivial for search but something like Inishmore Vs. Inish More
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Some great, detailed advice here! 👍 Townlands.ie shows how many objects have logainm:refs: https://www.townlands.ie/progress/#logainm It's currentlya botu 73% of townlands. On 17/02/17 14:51, Brian Tuffy wrote: > Alternative names or 'typos that are not typos': (A) Many townlands > have two official names on the map source, "Ballindoo or > Doocastle". Both are valid, We should try to find out which one is > commonly-used/dominant and use that one in the name= tag and the > other in the alt_name= tag. The logainm match up will only look at the name:en tag (or failing that the name) tag. It doesn't look at the alt_name (etc) tags. Perhaps it should. likewise it should split "X and Y" into "X" and "Y" and look at them. > (B) A name structure variation is valid, "East X" = "X East". We > don't have to add every variation but if you come across them, you > can add them. The idea is that if someone searches for a townland, > we want them to find it no matter what variation they use. The > example above is trivial for search but something like Inishmore > Vs. Inish More. Also consider, Upper/Lower, Island, More/Beg > Oughter/Eighter etc. The logainm script is aware of North/South/Upper/etc and will try to match based on that. It is able to tell that "X Upper" in Logainm is the same as "Upper X" in OSM (and vice versa etc). A few of these will be added to the logainm match up. I wasn't aware of them: > (C) Missing spaces can be valid names. e.g. Inishdeashmore = > Inishdeash-more = Inishdeash More > > (E) X Deme(ns)e and X Deme(sn)e. I suggest sticking to Deme(sn)e as > this is what is on the map source. (H) Apostrophes in names. I'm > getting a bit too in-depth here but I might > as well mention it. The old maps do not contain apostrophes in > names. "Georges Island", "Abbots Island". Some name tags are now > "George's Island" > etc. I suggest to keep "Georges Island" as an alt_name in this > case. > (G) Some townlands are named "Part of X" or "X (part of)". This > means it is a separate part of a nearby townland. Usually, you will > find an "X" townland nearby, that was split. I suggest we write the > name of these as "X (part of)". Are you sure about this? That would make 2 townlands, called "X" and "X (part of)". I thought if the map has a "X part of" displayed that it meant that little part was an exclave of the larger X townland, and I've been mapping them as such. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYpwntAAoJEOrWdmeZivv2FxoH/1GHOBmoLUMtsKQanmc9OhJC tYA1R/nLYXxenl7N3CXWxpFfpRrADb+G7SRZ6FC3YwABNOFudb3/4/QUh9T2zY00 NICTF7gmp8k378zVr2RxreOxXb0Qz4kXCfg+4H8NzAuxgsfEihliegGmRYm+/A6e 2glvvD+8GAoQ9zZvJdqXkdtZvB5BtV213jiTDYRoXWVX9r8TlqI9OPULL1FQtii4 LfP1s4oWKF5ma3Dip3VgyUvOCKWW/JaD5EGOZtT4uW8TnBKxEtWS/ahvoKInjyj6 gSWGJOW1tVorHur8B/HXK/poAbPy91M2ttS5d2IhGQyr5nOe8l25Fhm+uaGvkJ8= =drU2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 16/02/17 20:38, Brian Tuffy wrote: > I have a question about the logainm script, How can it handle a > barony that crosses a county border? For example, Barony of Ross > crosses the Galway-Mayo border as one relation. This relation has > one logainm tag for Ross in Mayo (logainm:ref = 172) but there are > separate loganim ref numbers for Ross in Galway (logainm:ref = 85) > on the logainm website. Can we somehow add both ref numbers to the > Barony relation? something like logainm:ref=172;85, or what do you > suggest? It seems that the script assumes everything is nested > inside counties but if baronies/civil parishes cross county > borders, then they have two logainm ref numbers. > > https://www.logainm.ie/en/85 Galway > https://www.logainm.ie/en/172 Mayo > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4128697 I'll have to think about what exactly the code does in that case and get back to you. As you can see it has only assigned on logainm code. In my mind logainm:ref=172;85 is the right answer, since this one OSM object represents 2 objects in Logainm. You can also have one object in Logainm which corresponds to 2 (or more) OSM objects. The logainm import code will never change a logainm:ref value that's there already. In accordance with long standing OSM convention, human mapping is viewed as better than what the script does. If the logainm script has done something wrong (like this case), then you can, and should, correct OSM manually. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYpw04AAoJEOrWdmeZivv2dDgH/Rn9w2Nn70duVvOD5oOXvzWb 2e/leRdDgjjCa2iB8rQ4XoFV74n4KubaM2uyilp4Ywkdzjpfai/udzieaijhuOlj JQ9rb7nPnspHKCVnNRFABbds+AGpvvUoGWPgt27YgMZss3MokWN31EI+HE9NxHmV I2RBFn7FfJ/Ime5C/tZOKKS2bLgtJ34zCIMNgvI8drfDDl+YEUsIfZDVRw+vDAan mIvuVmuNHj5oDmDsCrYff7cyA2dRcHhePOE8y5rasIkN6TfpEsUCN6NxKVDWE6TA RqhzuourVuDiV9pwqCejy/qtsmrwHdg6MZYMc8RNEnAsSXT5MMy5efovVwbRQ/o= =L2XJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Rory McCann wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Some great, detailed advice here! 👍 > > Townlands.ie shows how many objects have logainm:refs: > https://www.townlands.ie/progress/#logainm It's currentlya botu 73% of > townlands. > > > On 17/02/17 14:51, Brian Tuffy wrote: > > Alternative names or 'typos that are not typos': (A) Many townlands > > have two official names on the map source, "Ballindoo or > > Doocastle". Both are valid, We should try to find out which one is > > commonly-used/dominant and use that one in the name= tag and the > > other in the alt_name= tag. > > The logainm match up will only look at the name:en tag (or failing > that the name) tag. It doesn't look at the alt_name (etc) tags. > Perhaps it should. likewise it should split "X and Y" into "X" and "Y" > and look at them. > Just to be clear, if it is "X and Y" you should treat it as "X and Y", as it says on the wiki page. If it is "X or Y" then it should be treated as "X" or "Y" in OSM but It looks like Logainm treats "X or Y" as "X or Y" and so two townland names have one ref tag. The thing is your script will look for "Lisnakirka or Milebush" but in OSM it is name=Milebush and alt_name= Lis... https://www.logainm.ie/35706.aspx > > > (B) A name structure variation is valid, "East X" = "X East". We > > don't have to add every variation but if you come across them, you > > can add them. The idea is that if someone searches for a townland, > > we want them to find it no matter what variation they use. The > > example above is trivial for search but something like Inishmore > > Vs. Inish More. Also consider, Upper/Lower, Island, More/Beg > > Oughter/Eighter etc. > > The logainm script is aware of North/South/Upper/etc and will try to > match based on that. It is able to tell that "X Upper" in Logainm is > the same as "Upper X" in OSM (and vice versa etc). > > A few of these will be added to the logainm match up. I wasn't aware > of them: My Irish is unfortunately terrible but Oughter (butchered irish) = uachtar (Irish) = Upper or Southern (English) Eighter = Íochtar = Lower or Northern It confusses me why it is Lower or Northern (North is up right!! :) ) but I think it might be lower in elevation possibly? I doubt it. Upper Bavaria is the south because it rises to the alps. More interestingly, up might be to the south? you go up towards Rome in Irish?? More More interestingly, I hear that Irish is one of those languages that has an in-built sense of direction, you wouldn't say move over to the left, you would say move east or something like that. I am not sure about it. Anyway, back to the map. > > (C) Missing spaces can be valid names. e.g. Inishdeashmore = > > Inishdeash-more = Inishdeash More > > > > (E) X Deme(ns)e and X Deme(sn)e. I suggest sticking to Deme(sn)e as > > this is what is on the map source. (H) Apostrophes in names. I'm > > getting a bit too in-depth here but I > might > > as well mention it. The old maps do not contain apostrophes in > > names. "Georges Island", "Abbots Island". Some name tags are now > > "George's > Island" > > etc. I suggest to keep "Georges Island" as an alt_name in this > > case. > > > > (G) Some townlands are named "Part of X" or "X (part of)". This > > means it is a separate part of a nearby townland. Usually, you will > > find an "X" townland nearby, that was split. I suggest we write the > > name of these as "X (part of)". > > Are you sure about this? That would make 2 townlands, called "X" and > "X (part of)". I thought if the map has a "X part of" displayed that > it meant that little part was an exclave of the larger X townland, and > I've been mapping them as such. > I agree with you that it should be mapped as an exclave. I have not seen any like that so that's why I suggested to have two townlands. If everyone is happy with it, I will also map the "part of" exclave with the "X" townland. I will also amend my comments above when I put it up in a wiki. Thanks for the feedback! > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYpwntAAoJEOrWdmeZivv2FxoH/1GHOBmoLUMtsKQanmc9OhJC > tYA1R/nLYXxenl7N3CXWxpFfpRrADb+G7SRZ6FC3YwABNOFudb3/4/QUh9T2zY00 > NICTF7gmp8k378zVr2RxreOxXb0Qz4kXCfg+4H8NzAuxgsfEihliegGmRYm+/A6e > 2glvvD+8GAoQ9zZvJdqXkdtZvB5BtV213jiTDYRoXWVX9r8TlqI9OPULL1FQtii4 > LfP1s4oWKF5ma3Dip3VgyUvOCKWW/JaD5EGOZtT4uW8TnBKxEtWS/ahvoKInjyj6 > gSWGJOW1tVorHur8B/HXK/poAbPy91M2ttS5d2IhGQyr5nOe8l25Fhm+uaGvkJ8= > =drU2 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 17/02/17 16:38, Brian Tuffy wrote: > Just to be clear, if it is "X and Y" you should treat it as "X and > Y", as it says on the wiki page. If it is "X or Y" then it should > be treated as "X" or "Y" in OSM but It looks like Logainm treats "X > or Y" as "X or Y" and so two townland names have one ref tag. The > thing is your script will look for "Lisnakirka or Milebush" but in > OSM it is name=Milebush and alt_name= Lis... > https://www.logainm.ie/35706.aspx OK, that sounds a little more complicated. I think I'll leave it alone then. We can always just find townlands with an "and" and without a logainm:ref and manually add them. Sometimes manually adding it is quicker than programming complicated rules. > It confusses me why it is Lower or Northern (North is up right!! :) > ) but I think it might be lower in elevation possibly? I doubt it. > Upper Bavaria is the south because it rises to the alps. More > interestingly, up might be to the south? you go up towards Rome in > Irish?? More More interestingly, I hear that Irish is one of those > languages that has an in-built sense of direction, you wouldn't say > move over to the left, you would say move east or something > like that. I am not sure about it. Anyway, back to the map. Usually "Upper" is upstream, and "lower" is downstream, near the mouth of the river. e.g. the Upper Rhine Plane is in south Germany, because that's near where the Rhine starts. So when you see "Upper X" that's usually more "upsteam" or something. > I agree with you that it should be mapped as an exclave. I have not > seen any like that so that's why I suggested to have two > townlands. I don't know if I've seen it with townlands. It's more common with Civil Parishes. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYpx69AAoJEOrWdmeZivv2a/EIAKwvRsri1/hodVTDoy936q8w nrJzEdDGpfTHU/7MyyNRfcqrtAfp41x+qgr13jTmGC3yGMraM9waj9UZLdj9h7WG u0zLX1Lb6DX3FfSsKkXI47N3/bTCqQ5ZqdzBmAfJzjypd9fSPkTwJDBNdoiBBgCx UepxqQqAXgAJ+3F957dT5EcXzoP1p4pVrPTI6HI6knXNnw1F9XeICXIWQPZva7+D p6lDedvEQHA3Iwk7s2i1UqAXvf/TDd5ZCnJ+IO9Qm92VFmJ/N2k4umWsnQbLdKJy WG3R3QqiccE4IajpcJbGjgKafXuuSpLQn/7hHi6pP0j+KaE7FTp5aAh2na0FZEQ= =GEzN -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
Re Exclave try Kiltiernan in County Dublin in townlands.ie and Kinnitty as CP, both enclaves belong to eslewhere external CPs On 17 February 2017 at 16:03, Rory McCann wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 17/02/17 16:38, Brian Tuffy wrote: > > Just to be clear, if it is "X and Y" you should treat it as "X and > > Y", as it says on the wiki page. If it is "X or Y" then it should > > be treated as "X" or "Y" in OSM but It looks like Logainm treats "X > > or Y" as "X or Y" and so two townland names have one ref tag. The > > thing is your script will look for "Lisnakirka or Milebush" but in > > OSM it is name=Milebush and alt_name= Lis... > > https://www.logainm.ie/35706.aspx > > OK, that sounds a little more complicated. I think I'll leave it alone > then. We can always just find townlands with an "and" and without a > logainm:ref and manually add them. Sometimes manually adding it is > quicker than programming complicated rules. > > > It confusses me why it is Lower or Northern (North is up right!! :) > > ) but I think it might be lower in elevation possibly? I doubt it. > > Upper Bavaria is the south because it rises to the alps. More > > interestingly, up might be to the south? you go up towards Rome in > > Irish?? More More interestingly, I hear that Irish is one of those > > languages that has an in-built sense of direction, you wouldn't say > > move over to the left, you would say move east or something > > like that. I am not sure about it. Anyway, back to the map. > > Usually "Upper" is upstream, and "lower" is downstream, near the mouth > of the river. e.g. the Upper Rhine Plane is in south Germany, because > that's near where the Rhine starts. So when you see "Upper X" that's > usually more "upsteam" or something. > > > I agree with you that it should be mapped as an exclave. I have not > > seen any like that so that's why I suggested to have two > > townlands. > > I don't know if I've seen it with townlands. It's more common with > Civil Parishes. > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYpx69AAoJEOrWdmeZivv2a/EIAKwvRsri1/hodVTDoy936q8w > nrJzEdDGpfTHU/7MyyNRfcqrtAfp41x+qgr13jTmGC3yGMraM9waj9UZLdj9h7WG > u0zLX1Lb6DX3FfSsKkXI47N3/bTCqQ5ZqdzBmAfJzjypd9fSPkTwJDBNdoiBBgCx > UepxqQqAXgAJ+3F957dT5EcXzoP1p4pVrPTI6HI6knXNnw1F9XeICXIWQPZva7+D > p6lDedvEQHA3Iwk7s2i1UqAXvf/TDd5ZCnJ+IO9Qm92VFmJ/N2k4umWsnQbLdKJy > WG3R3QqiccE4IajpcJbGjgKafXuuSpLQn/7hHi6pP0j+KaE7FTp5aAh2na0FZEQ= > =GEzN > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
Thanks, I have started mapping some "X (part of)" townlands as exclaves now (part of the 'parent' townland relation). This works well for the most part. I noticed that the 'parent' Townland usually has an additional area, for example "including 10A 1R 7P dd. portion". This area matches the area of the exclave, so that makes sense. Here is a difficult example though, Although it says "Part of Rahard" it is not obvious that it is an exclave as the 'parent' townland is about 4 townlands to the North West (There is even a third unrelated "Rahard" to the west which makes it difficult). I can identify the correct parent townland by matching the E.D. and the "area ...d.d. portion". The areas match, so it IS an exclave, but a strange one. The areas are relatively the same size and its not obvious why it is an exclave and not another townland with the same name. I will leave it alone for now. exclave: http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/?zoom=16&lat=53.63809&lon=-9.10907&layers=B00TTFFF Parent: http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/?zoom=17&lat=53.67605&lon=-9.161&layers=B00TTFFF Another somewhat unrelated question is, Could "Bal of Dookinnely (Calvy)" (Ball Dumha Cinn Aille) be an exclave of nearby "Dookinnely (Calvy)" (Dumha Cinn Aille)? In Irish, Ball can mean 'part of' and we are on Achill Island here, so it is in the Gaeltacht. As far as I understand the (Calvy) ending is a family name in the area. The townland was named after landowners? The common (Calvy) part in both townlands suggests they are linked. I somehow think that "Bal of Dookinnely (Calvy)" should still remain as a separate townland, at least for now. http://askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml? action=doNameSearch&Submit.x=0&Submit.y=0&Submit=Submit& familyname=calvy&firstname=&baronyname=&countyname=MAYO& unionname=&parishname= On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 7:04 PM, Brian Hollinshead wrote: > Re Exclave > try Kiltiernan in County Dublin in townlands.ie > > and Kinnitty as CP, both enclaves belong to eslewhere external CPs > > On 17 February 2017 at 16:03, Rory McCann wrote: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 17/02/17 16:38, Brian Tuffy wrote: > > > Just to be clear, if it is "X and Y" you should treat it as "X and > > > Y", as it says on the wiki page. If it is "X or Y" then it should > > > be treated as "X" or "Y" in OSM but It looks like Logainm treats "X > > > or Y" as "X or Y" and so two townland names have one ref tag. The > > > thing is your script will look for "Lisnakirka or Milebush" but in > > > OSM it is name=Milebush and alt_name= Lis... > > > https://www.logainm.ie/35706.aspx > > > > OK, that sounds a little more complicated. I think I'll leave it alone > > then. We can always just find townlands with an "and" and without a > > logainm:ref and manually add them. Sometimes manually adding it is > > quicker than programming complicated rules. > > > > > It confusses me why it is Lower or Northern (North is up right!! :) > > > ) but I think it might be lower in elevation possibly? I doubt it. > > > Upper Bavaria is the south because it rises to the alps. More > > > interestingly, up might be to the south? you go up towards Rome in > > > Irish?? More More interestingly, I hear that Irish is one of those > > > languages that has an in-built sense of direction, you wouldn't say > > > move over to the left, you would say move east or something > > > like that. I am not sure about it. Anyway, back to the map. > > > > Usually "Upper" is upstream, and "lower" is downstream, near the mouth > > of the river. e.g. the Upper Rhine Plane is in south Germany, because > > that's near where the Rhine starts. So when you see "Upper X" that's > > usually more "upsteam" or something. > > > > > I agree with you that it should be mapped as an exclave. I have not > > > seen any like that so that's why I suggested to have two > > > townlands. > > > > I don't know if I've seen it with townlands. It's more common with > > Civil Parishes. > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYpx69AAoJEOrWdmeZivv2a/EIAKwvRsri1/hodVTDoy936q8w > > nrJzEdDGpfTHU/7MyyNRfcqrtAfp41x+qgr13jTmGC3yGMraM9waj9UZLdj9h7WG > > u0zLX1Lb6DX3FfSsKkXI47N3/bTCqQ5ZqdzBmAfJzjypd9fSPkTwJDBNdoiBBgCx > > UepxqQqAXgAJ+3F957dT5EcXzoP1p4pVrPTI6HI6knXNnw1F9XeICXIWQPZva7+D > > p6lDedvEQHA3Iwk7s2i1UqAXvf/TDd5ZCnJ+IO9Qm92VFmJ/N2k4umWsnQbLdKJy > > WG3R3QqiccE4IajpcJbGjgKafXuuSpLQn/7hHi6pP0j+KaE7FTp5aAh2na0FZEQ= > > =GEzN > > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > > ___ > > Talk-ie mailing list > > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listin
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
Brian, On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Brian Tuffy wrote: > Thanks, I have started mapping some "X (part of)" townlands as exclaves now > (part of the 'parent' townland relation). This works well for the most > part. I noticed that the 'parent' Townland usually has an additional area, > for example "including 10A 1R 7P dd. portion". This area matches the area > of the exclave, so that makes sense. > > Here is a difficult example though, Although it says "Part of Rahard" it is > not obvious that it is an exclave as the 'parent' townland is about 4 > townlands to the North West (There is even a third unrelated "Rahard" to > the west which makes it difficult). I can identify the correct parent > townland by matching the E.D. and the "area ...d.d. portion". The areas > match, so it IS an exclave, but a strange one. The areas are relatively the > same size and its not obvious why it is an exclave and not another townland > with the same name. I will leave it alone for now. > exclave: > http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/?zoom=16&lat=53.63809&lon=-9. > 10907&layers=B00TTFFF > Parent: > http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/?zoom=17&lat=53.67605&lon=-9. > 161&layers=B00TTFFF They're in different civil parishes but have been drawn into the same DED. In this case, I would say that they're two separate townlands which just happen to have the same name and are being incorrectly treated as two parts of the same townland.(This is a different issue to having a single townland "split" between civil parishes.) I suspect that they will have different logainm references as well. I made a similar change last week to the two Corravillas in Shercock ED (Cavan) when I was finishing up the EDs there. > > > > Another somewhat unrelated question is, Could "Bal of Dookinnely (Calvy)" > (Ball Dumha Cinn Aille) be an exclave of nearby "Dookinnely (Calvy)" (Dumha > Cinn Aille)? In Irish, Ball can mean 'part of' and we are on Achill Island > here, so it is in the Gaeltacht. As far as I understand the (Calvy) ending > is a family name in the area. The townland was named after landowners? The > common (Calvy) part in both townlands suggests they are linked. I somehow > think that "Bal of Dookinnely (Calvy)" should still remain as a separate > townland, at least for now. > http://askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml? > action=doNameSearch&Submit.x=0&Submit.y=0&Submit=Submit& > familyname=calvy&firstname=&baronyname=&countyname=MAYO& > unionname=&parishname= > > I'd be inclined to leave it as is. > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 7:04 PM, Brian Hollinshead > wrote: > > > Re Exclave > > try Kiltiernan in County Dublin in townlands.ie > > > > and Kinnitty as CP, both enclaves belong to eslewhere external CPs > > > > On 17 February 2017 at 16:03, Rory McCann wrote: > > > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > On 17/02/17 16:38, Brian Tuffy wrote: > > > > Just to be clear, if it is "X and Y" you should treat it as "X and > > > > Y", as it says on the wiki page. If it is "X or Y" then it should > > > > be treated as "X" or "Y" in OSM but It looks like Logainm treats "X > > > > or Y" as "X or Y" and so two townland names have one ref tag. The > > > > thing is your script will look for "Lisnakirka or Milebush" but in > > > > OSM it is name=Milebush and alt_name= Lis... > > > > https://www.logainm.ie/35706.aspx > > > > > > OK, that sounds a little more complicated. I think I'll leave it alone > > > then. We can always just find townlands with an "and" and without a > > > logainm:ref and manually add them. Sometimes manually adding it is > > > quicker than programming complicated rules. > > > > > > > It confusses me why it is Lower or Northern (North is up right!! :) > > > > ) but I think it might be lower in elevation possibly? I doubt it. > > > > Upper Bavaria is the south because it rises to the alps. More > > > > interestingly, up might be to the south? you go up towards Rome in > > > > Irish?? More More interestingly, I hear that Irish is one of those > > > > languages that has an in-built sense of direction, you wouldn't say > > > > move over to the left, you would say move east or something > > > > like that. I am not sure about it. Anyway, back to the map. > > > > > > Usually "Upper" is upstream, and "lower" is downstream, near the mouth > > > of the river. e.g. the Upper Rhine Plane is in south Germany, because > > > that's near where the Rhine starts. So when you see "Upper X" that's > > > usually more "upsteam" or something. > > > > > > > I agree with you that it should be mapped as an exclave. I have not > > > > seen any like that so that's why I suggested to have two > > > > townlands. > > > > > > I don't know if I've seen it with townlands. It's more common with > > > Civil Parishes. > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > > > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > > > > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYpx69AAoJEOrWdmeZivv2a/EIAKwvRsri1/hodVTDoy936q8w > > > nrJzEdDGpfTHU/7MyyNRfcqrtAfp41x+qgr13jT
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names
Thanks for the feedback, I agree. I have given them their unique Logainm ref tags and, in an effort to help distinguish them, I have given them an alt_name "Rahard - Robeen Parish" etc. I leave all three with the name= Rahard. On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Patrick Matthews wrote: > Brian, > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Brian Tuffy > wrote: > > > Thanks, I have started mapping some "X (part of)" townlands as exclaves > now > > (part of the 'parent' townland relation). This works well for the most > > part. I noticed that the 'parent' Townland usually has an additional > area, > > for example "including 10A 1R 7P dd. portion". This area matches the > area > > of the exclave, so that makes sense. > > > > Here is a difficult example though, Although it says "Part of Rahard" it > is > > not obvious that it is an exclave as the 'parent' townland is about 4 > > townlands to the North West (There is even a third unrelated "Rahard" to > > the west which makes it difficult). I can identify the correct parent > > townland by matching the E.D. and the "area ...d.d. portion". The areas > > match, so it IS an exclave, but a strange one. The areas are relatively > the > > same size and its not obvious why it is an exclave and not another > townland > > with the same name. I will leave it alone for now. > > exclave: > > http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/?zoom=16&lat=53.63809&lon=-9. > > 10907&layers=B00TTFFF > > Parent: > > http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/?zoom=17&lat=53.67605&lon=-9. > > 161&layers=B00TTFFF > > > > They're in different civil parishes but have been drawn into the same DED. > In this case, I would say that > they're two separate townlands which just happen to have the same name and > are being incorrectly > treated as two parts of the same townland.(This is a different issue to > having a single townland "split" > between civil parishes.) I suspect that they will have different logainm > references as well. I made a > similar change last week to the two Corravillas in Shercock ED (Cavan) when > I was finishing up the > EDs there. > > > > > > > > > > Another somewhat unrelated question is, Could "Bal of Dookinnely (Calvy)" > > (Ball Dumha Cinn Aille) be an exclave of nearby "Dookinnely (Calvy)" > (Dumha > > Cinn Aille)? In Irish, Ball can mean 'part of' and we are on Achill > Island > > here, so it is in the Gaeltacht. As far as I understand the (Calvy) > ending > > is a family name in the area. The townland was named after landowners? > The > > common (Calvy) part in both townlands suggests they are linked. I somehow > > think that "Bal of Dookinnely (Calvy)" should still remain as a separate > > townland, at least for now. > > http://askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml? > > action=doNameSearch&Submit.x=0&Submit.y=0&Submit=Submit& > > familyname=calvy&firstname=&baronyname=&countyname=MAYO& > > unionname=&parishname= > > > > > > I'd be inclined to leave it as is. > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 7:04 PM, Brian Hollinshead < > br...@hollinshead.net> > > wrote: > > > > > Re Exclave > > > try Kiltiernan in County Dublin in townlands.ie > > > > > > and Kinnitty as CP, both enclaves belong to eslewhere external CPs > > > > > > On 17 February 2017 at 16:03, Rory McCann > wrote: > > > > > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > > > On 17/02/17 16:38, Brian Tuffy wrote: > > > > > Just to be clear, if it is "X and Y" you should treat it as "X and > > > > > Y", as it says on the wiki page. If it is "X or Y" then it should > > > > > be treated as "X" or "Y" in OSM but It looks like Logainm treats "X > > > > > or Y" as "X or Y" and so two townland names have one ref tag. The > > > > > thing is your script will look for "Lisnakirka or Milebush" but in > > > > > OSM it is name=Milebush and alt_name= Lis... > > > > > https://www.logainm.ie/35706.aspx > > > > > > > > OK, that sounds a little more complicated. I think I'll leave it > alone > > > > then. We can always just find townlands with an "and" and without a > > > > logainm:ref and manually add them. Sometimes manually adding it is > > > > quicker than programming complicated rules. > > > > > > > > > It confusses me why it is Lower or Northern (North is up right!! :) > > > > > ) but I think it might be lower in elevation possibly? I doubt it. > > > > > Upper Bavaria is the south because it rises to the alps. More > > > > > interestingly, up might be to the south? you go up towards Rome in > > > > > Irish?? More More interestingly, I hear that Irish is one of those > > > > > languages that has an in-built sense of direction, you wouldn't say > > > > > move over to the left, you would say move east or something > > > > > like that. I am not sure about it. Anyway, back to the map. > > > > > > > > Usually "Upper" is upstream, and "lower" is downstream, near the > mouth > > > > of the river. e.g. the Upper Rhine Plane is in south Germany, because > > > > that's near where the Rhine starts. So when y