Re: [OSM-talk] Replication stopped
Yay! My lake is in the process of being rendered right now. Thanks for greasing the gears! Toby On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: On 12 August 2010 17:29, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: I was just trying to figure out why a lake I traced last night hadn't been rendered yet. After double checking tagging, relationing, etc I finally looked at munin[1] and noticed that yevaud stopped getting diffs almost 10 hours ago. Also, looking at the OWL status page[2], it isn't getting diffs either. I don't see any notices on the platform status wiki page. Anyone know what's up (or down...)? Yevaud (tile.openstreetmap.org) problem has now been fixed and should start catching up. OWL should start shortly too. There were networking problem around 8:45am (BST) with planet.osm.org, this seems to have cause osmosis --read-replication-interval to lock. Regards Grant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-us] Changeset 5393406
So I was happily tracing a lake last night when I noticed a bunch of completely unconnected nodes with no tags in the area. I mentioned it on IRC and came up with a couple of JOSM filters to weed them out and ended up deleting over 2,000 of them around the lake. Looking at them last night I didn't see a pattern but I must have been too tired or something. Today I went back and looked at more of the area and noticed that they are all from the same changeset and it looks to be a bad one: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/5393406 It has 30,000 nodes... and that's it. No ways, no relations and a pretty worthless changeset comment. I guess I will probably send the user a message asking what he was thinking but I'm guessing this is a prime candidate for a changeset revert? Thoughts? Toby ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Changeset 5393406
Alrighty then. Glad that's sorted out. I hope my deleting a couple thousand of the nodes won't make reverting more difficult. As a side note, I was using the USGS NAIP imagery to trace the lake when I noticed these nodes. So on balance I don't think I'll hold it against you :) Toby On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Eric Wolf ebw...@gmail.com wrote: Bugger... I was just looking at the changeset metadata again. That did come from bulk_upload.py but I'll be damned if I didn't have it pointing at our server. I'm going to have to check out the code tomorrow to see why it hit osm.org and not our box. That's just not right. -Eric -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Changeset 5393406
I'm using this WMS URL in JOSM: http://isse.cr.usgs.gov/arcgis/services/Combined/SDDS_Imagery/MapServer/WMSServer?SERVICE=WMSVERSION=1.1.1STYLES=SRS=EPSG:4326FORMAT=image/pnglayers=0request=map; Last night is was downright speedy. Tonight it is being a little slower. At times it is barely usable. I know someone else had a slightly different URL that they were using too. Not sure what the differences were. In my city I have permission to us 6 aerial imagery from my county GIS department but the NAIP imagery is useful when I'm working out in the rural areas of Kansas. Toby On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:17 PM, Eric Wolf ebw...@gmail.com wrote: I know this seems like a silly question, coming from me and all, but where are you getting your NAIP tiles from? One of the things that I keep trying to convince the bosses of is that a cached set of tiles for the entire NAIP imagery set would be very useful to many people. Right now, I think the best you can get are some sloppy reduced resolution dynamic (re: slow) tiles - at least from the USGS. But because it's a USDA dataset, it's always given low priority. I know MicroImages has a pretty extensive copy of NAIP via WMS: http://www.microimages.com/geodata/us-orthophotos/ -Eric -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734 On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Alrighty then. Glad that's sorted out. I hope my deleting a couple thousand of the nodes won't make reverting more difficult. As a side note, I was using the USGS NAIP imagery to trace the lake when I noticed these nodes. So on balance I don't think I'll hold it against you :) Toby On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Eric Wolf ebw...@gmail.com wrote: Bugger... I was just looking at the changeset metadata again. That did come from bulk_upload.py but I'll be damned if I didn't have it pointing at our server. I'm going to have to check out the code tomorrow to see why it hit osm.org and not our box. That's just not right. -Eric -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Changeset 5393406
Looks like it was actually Ian who posted this WMS URL a couple weeks ago: http://isse.cr.usgs.gov/ArcGIS/services/Combined/USGS_EDC_Ortho_NAIP/MapServer/WMSServer?request=GetMapformat=image/jpegservice=WMSversion=1.1.0layers=0STYLES=default; On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: I'm using this WMS URL in JOSM: http://isse.cr.usgs.gov/arcgis/services/Combined/SDDS_Imagery/MapServer/WMSServer?SERVICE=WMSVERSION=1.1.1STYLES=SRS=EPSG:4326FORMAT=image/pnglayers=0request=map; Last night is was downright speedy. Tonight it is being a little slower. At times it is barely usable. I know someone else had a slightly different URL that they were using too. Not sure what the differences were. In my city I have permission to us 6 aerial imagery from my county GIS department but the NAIP imagery is useful when I'm working out in the rural areas of Kansas. Toby On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:17 PM, Eric Wolf ebw...@gmail.com wrote: I know this seems like a silly question, coming from me and all, but where are you getting your NAIP tiles from? One of the things that I keep trying to convince the bosses of is that a cached set of tiles for the entire NAIP imagery set would be very useful to many people. Right now, I think the best you can get are some sloppy reduced resolution dynamic (re: slow) tiles - at least from the USGS. But because it's a USDA dataset, it's always given low priority. I know MicroImages has a pretty extensive copy of NAIP via WMS: http://www.microimages.com/geodata/us-orthophotos/ -Eric -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734 On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Alrighty then. Glad that's sorted out. I hope my deleting a couple thousand of the nodes won't make reverting more difficult. As a side note, I was using the USGS NAIP imagery to trace the lake when I noticed these nodes. So on balance I don't think I'll hold it against you :) Toby On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Eric Wolf ebw...@gmail.com wrote: Bugger... I was just looking at the changeset metadata again. That did come from bulk_upload.py but I'll be damned if I didn't have it pointing at our server. I'm going to have to check out the code tomorrow to see why it hit osm.org and not our box. That's just not right. -Eric -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] Bing
Nice to see they're trying. And it really is nice to see OSM getting serious attention from the likes of microsoft. But silverlight = fail from where I'm sitting (in front of a computer running Linux). Comments indicate that moonlight doesn't work for their map stuff. Oh well, better luck next time. Toby On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: http://www.bing.com/community/blogs/maps/archive/2010/08/02/bing-maps-adds-open-street-maps-layer.aspx Unfortunately, the driving directions don't seem to be based on OSM data. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police
I'm not really speaking for/against abbreviations in general, just adding information. It would definitely be Pkwy and Blvd. The USPS has documented standards for prefixes, suffixes and any other fixes you may want. 208 pages worth: http://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub28/pub28.pdf Toby On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net wrote: Yes. Last time, a couple of us (or maybe just me - I forget) argued that it was OK to use common abbreviations for some well-known street types - at least St, Ave, Blvd, Pl, etc. - but the opposition was significant, and no change could be agreed upon. (OT - I wish that recognition of similar opposition in the tiger tag removal were given the same weight) How do you abbreviate Boulevard? Blvd or Bv? How about Parkway? Pkwy, Pky, or Py? The same road (Central Florida Parkway) has all three on signs near its west end. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] Project of the Week
I'm kind of new here so I wasn't around for Haiti. Is there a general here is how to help map disaster areas page on the wiki? I would be willing to help out but the mapping I have done so far here in the US is a little different thanks to TIGER data that at least gives you a point to start from. It would be helpful to give some guidance on how to go about mapping a blank area that you have no personal knowledge of. And of course a link to that from the project-of-the-week page wouldn't hurt either. This is a good start although some of it is Haiti specific: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/HOT_Package Seems like something HOT would want to put together. Or have they already and my searches just aren't finding it? Toby On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Shoaib Burq sho...@nomad-labs.com wrote: Hi all, Kashif just added Pakistan's Flood affected areas to the project of the week. If you are in the mood for tracing Yahoo Imagery it would be great to get some of these towns listed in the wiki page for the Pakistan floods traced http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Project_of_the_week/2010/Aug_08 Hope we can help out - this part of the word has seen enough heart-ache already Cheers Shoaib -- sho...@nomad-labs.com Canberra, Australia http://twitter.com/sabman ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
As pointed out, you only have 255 characters. No one is suggesting a book needs to be written. There is a difference between useful and exhaustive. All we are asking for is useful comments. Cleaning up validator problems in Ottowa using a CANVEC source or pull the reference to CANVEC out into a source=* changeset tag. Seriously. It is that simple people! I just ran into some problem roads last night along Kansas highway 18 where it would have been a big help to have some useful comments in the history. If you are in an area with more than a few active mappers I can *guarantee* you that at least one other person is looking at your changeset comments. I live in the middle of nowhere Kansas and I know at least one other person is watching the area. Toby On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 11:30 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Currently I'm cleaning up in Ottawa, I have over 8,000 errors to clean up left and recently I've probably cleaned at least a couple of thousand errors so far. Things like incorrect street names, where I have a CANVEC source that helps enormously, connecting streets up so you can run routing software. etc. Are you seriously suggesting for each correction I do a write up saying why I or Validator think its wrong and my source for the correction? Thanks Cheerio John ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] My Vote for most point dense part of OSM
Wow that is impressive. Although they could have saved themselves a little time by using highway=turning_circle for all those cul-de-sacs and not having to render a perfect circle by hand :) On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 1:11 PM, John Harvey j...@johnharveyphoto.com wrote: Total trivia. Ever wonder where the most dense mapping in the OSM is? There are a few candidates: Paris is impressive: http://osm.org/go/0BOd2jSc But if you look at how it's built, a lot of points are shared in relations (as it should be, but not winning the most dense award) In Germany there is a very dense field of buildings: http://osm.org/go/0MbEX3rqa-- It's so dense, it doesn't really render well even in the closest tile set. It's a lot of points. It's doesn't win in my books though because it's such a limited area. My vote for most point dense is part of Bakersfield, California: http://osm.org/go/TY4n4MnA My favorite part is how they rendered the street edges into the residential ways. They even include out buildings and trees. Even at the closest zoom, potlatch is all thumbs editing. Wow. Cool maps! John ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Unfortunately OWL does not show the Changeset comment in the RSS items, so I'll always have to click onto the web link, but I always read what my co-mappers are writing. Actually, it is supposed to. There is some bug that causes it to choke often though. I poke zere on IRC about it regularly. And a HUGE +1 to this topic in general. I find all the worldwide edits with no useful comment to be highly annoying. I agree that sometimes it will be a pretty general description if a lot of things were changed but generally if you are doing large XAPI requests to fix things, they will be pretty specific. There should be at least SOME attempt to be descriptive. If for no other reason than to alert me to the types of things that bots are correcting so that I can map them correctly when I add similar features in the future. I like to think my comments are usually pretty awesome myself :) http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ToeBee/edits And yes, I do have one comment that reads Random additions/improvements around town. for an edit that was truly random. Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
If there IS a change for medical stuff, I would personally rather see the medical=* proposal be used. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Medical Hospitals could be medical=hospital and emergency=yes/no to take care of the is this an emergency hospital concern. Then I guess a question would be would pharmacies be medical=pharmacy or remain shop=pharmacy? Toby On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:12 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 July 2010 04:09, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: I don't understand this argument. Doesn't every tag change anywhere break every editor/renderer/search/data user whether or not you think it is correct? It's slightly amusing how it comes up every now and then about what to do about depreciating tags to make the data more consistent/useful, except when someone tries to do something about it then it's a bad idea :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] Community Involvement
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 4:38 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: One of the goals of the chapter is collect this data and work with governments (and other organizations) who wish to make their data available to OSM. Great! So, even charging isn't an awful thing, if the rest of the license is OK. One county near me said their data is available, but we have to pay $100 per DVD. Again, yes, the national chapter should be able to help with that in the future, either by evaluating the license and ensuring it's acceptable or by creating an agreement by which they donate the data to OSM explicitly. Then we can use it however we like. And for that, I think having an organization which can legally represent OpenStreetMap is valuable. Absolutely agree. And assuming you are a not-for-profit, would organizations be able to claim tax credit if they donate data to OSM? I guess this probably wouldn't affect government sources so that's another conversation. It is great that we can use any tags we want. But at the same time, some consistency is absolutely necessary to be able to actually use the data in a global environment. Why do we all use highway=* tags for roads? That wouldn't be my first impulse, for most city roads at least, but we do it for consistency. The tagging is fairly consistent and there's a procedure for votes to be formally accepted. The WIki contains tags, and usually mentions if there's been a formal acceptance of the proposal or not. It seems like I have managed to find a lot of proposals that either were never brought up for a vote or were rejected but are still in the wiki, cluttering things up. In general it strikes me as suboptimal to use a wiki as a debating and voting platform. I'm not sure what would be better though. However also as a new mapper I have found it difficult to figure out how to map some relatively simple things correctly. Sometimes there is nothing but a stub page on the wiki, sometimes there are 2 or 3 competing proposals, all of which have been idle for over a year. Several times this has led me to just tag for the renderer since that was the most authoritative source available. I have seen the same thing happening with other new mappers. What features specifically have you had trouble with? One that I specifically remember is doctors offices. There are 3 pages on the wiki that could apply: - amenity=doctor (this page has a lot of detail but it was proposed in 2008 and never opened for voting. It also doesn't say anything about how to distinguish between, say, a pediatrician and an ophthalmologist) - amenity=doctors (nothing but a stub) - medical=* (recently proposed and not yet open for voting) Now guess which one is actually used. The winner is amenity=doctors - the empty stub page - with nearly 9,000 uses according to tagstat. In fact it looks like amenity=doctor is actively being corrected to amenity=doctors by a bot. amenity=doctors is also what JOSM uses for the Doctors preset and what is listed on the map features wiki page which of course links to the stub page. Personally I think the medical=* key seems like a pretty good idea but it has 37 uses for doctors and maybe 100 overall. I firmly believe that a lot of the time people use different tags as they see fit and that's the way it should be should really be people use different tags because they weren't able to easily figure out how other people have tagged this feature. Coming up with a set of guidelines would be much more appreciated and less looked upon as restricting as some people seem to think. Look at the discussion happening in the mapquest thread about state highways. No one is saying IT SHOULD BE DONE THIS WAY! but rather it would be nice to have consensus The wiki is supposed to be that. I've generally found (with very few exceptions) that everything I needed to map was already addressed on the wiki. But I accept what you're saying- that it's too hard to navigate the wiki. You've identified a problem (and it appears others have had the same problem)- now it's time to take it to the next step and create a solution. Yes, navigation is a pain. The map features page is a pretty good index of things to map but it often links to proposal or stub pages (like the doctors page) that don't give a lot of information about how to map this feature but rather offer discussions about the tag or some OSM jargon that is not really helpful to newcomers. The problem is that as one gains more experience within OSM those pages DO become somewhat helpful so there is little incentive for experienced mappers to change them to make it better for new mappers. Toby ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: [OSM-talk] Mapquest launches site based on OSM!
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: Curious why they use a starburst symbol that looks like an explosion for the trailblazer shield, though. It's a sunflower :) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] User Juergenian vandalism
There are two new changesets today on the northern coast of Russia. Looks like he deleted 7 ways. On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Anthony onehalf3...@gmail.com wrote: Aleksandr Dezhin wrote: As I know Anthony (one_half_3544) tried to contact this user on July 8 [1]. Yes, I've mailed him on 8th, and since he uses potlatch, he should have seen my message. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] User Juergenian vandalism
New ones by this user. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Juergenian/edits On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 11:55 PM, Kirill Bestoujev bestou...@gmail.com wrote: His own or old ones? 2010/7/19 Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com: There are two new changesets today on the northern coast of Russia. Looks like he deleted 7 ways. On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Anthony onehalf3...@gmail.com wrote: Aleksandr Dezhin wrote: As I know Anthony (one_half_3544) tried to contact this user on July 8 [1]. Yes, I've mailed him on 8th, and since he uses potlatch, he should have seen my message. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] State abbreviations
That does seem to be the case, at least for Kansas: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/316956038 But this doesn't really help nominatim specifically or any other application that might want to do a is in KS search. I don't think I knew there WERE single nodes for states... Why are there? It doesn't really make much sense to represent information about such a large area in a single point on the map. On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: I was commenting the other day on IRC that nominatim only worked on my address if I used Kansas but not KS as most people would. twain happened to be on and commented that a ref=KS tag on the state boundary would probably fix this. I checked and there are currently no state boundary relations with a ref=* tag. It seems like a decent idea to add them and it would obviously be trivial to do so with a few minutes work but I figured a change that affects the whole country should probably be mentioned on the mailing list first. Comments? Aren't the abbreviations already on the place (State) nodes? Better to not put them in two places, right? Somebody want to double check my memory? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.3lon=-98.5zoom=4layers=B000FTF ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] Comprehensive set of GPS track logs
You might want to take a look at the doroga tv user on OSM. A while ago they started automatically uploading hundreds of traces. I don't know where they got the traces from but it was my impression that they were from some kind of automatic tracking system in vehicles. They ended up completely hosing the OSM GPX importer process and stopped the uploads but there are several hundred traces available: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/doroga%20tv/traces On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Lukas Kabrt lu...@kabrt.cz wrote: Hi, I am student working on the GSoC project - Travel time analysis [1], [2]. For the final tuning and demonstration of the utility I am looking for a comprehensive set of GPS track logs. Requirements: Timestamped GPS tracks (if privacy is concern I can provide a utility that will delete unneccessary data - I am interested only in day of the week and time) Cover reasonable size area - big city, small part of the country Real world data - not from mapping parties etc. (these gps logs do not correspond with orinary vehicle behaviour) If someone can provide me such set or suggest me a place, where it can be obtained, it would be great help. Thanks, Lukas [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2010/AcceptedProjects/TimeTravelAnalysis [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Routing/Travel_Time_Analysis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: [OSM-talk] Mapquest launches site based on OSM!
It doesn't seem too far behind. Maybe a couple of weeks. New features I added in early June are there but a few I did more recently aren't. Also, I see they are rendering highway shields. Didn't I see a big discussion about that here recently? :) Wonder if they are using the route relations to render them... Toby On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Nakor nakor@gmail.com wrote: FYI just in case it did not come to this list. Are they going to the US SOTM? Mapquest is also planning to spent $1mill to improve OSM data in the US: http://vector1media.com/spatialsustain/openstreetmap-gains-great-traction-this-week.html Neat. Their tile rendering seems pretty decent, except their database seems to be out of date. Hopefully they'll get a process in place to keep up-to-date soon. -- Jeff Ollie ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: [OSM-talk] Mapquest launches site based on OSM!
Well I took a look at the blog post with the technical details. They are using a vanilla osm2pgsql/mapnik setup, just custom styles from Cartifact. They mention enhancing mapnik. Have these changes already made it back upstream or will that happen in the future? In particular I'm guessing the multistyle rendering based on polygonal regions is of interest for the highway/interstate rendering. I see they don't (yet?) have state highway shields, just interstates and US highways. Overall I think it looks pretty nice though. On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 7/9/10 5:57 PM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote: On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Toby Murraytoby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Also, I see they are rendering highway shields. Didn't I see a big discussion about that here recently? :) Wonder if they are using the route relations to render them... Not sure what they are doing, because I-80 near Des Moines has shields, but I-35 doesn't. I was going to take a look later to see if I could figure out what was different between the two cases. here's a sample in my neighborhood; some NY 43 shields have the NY, some don't: http://open.mapquest.co.uk/mq/4-Vc4rtBI4PAQu ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Kansas extract
I just downloaded the Kansas extract from cloudmade: http://downloads.cloudmade.com/north_america/united_states/kansas After rendering I noticed that the northern border was missing. Looking at it some more, the extract seems to be cut off about a half mile too far south. The cutoff for the other 3 borders looks to be about a half mile or so outside of the border which is fine, it is just the northern border that is off. I suppose the other option is that the extract is correct and the state boundary is off in OSM... Can anyone confirm either of these theories? Toby ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming OSM Server Maintenance
Looks like this just started. Have to remember to pick up some anti-anxiety meds on the way home from work tonight. Must... edit... map! On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: On 26 June 2010 07:12, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Having just bought a new hard-drive, I found 400gb almost unavailable, most disks these days seem to start at 1tb and go up. These are 'Server' SCSI (Serial Attached SCSI) disks. They are still available. The highest available size is 600GB. We are going for the 450GB disks to match our current disks in the storage array. / Grant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tsunami warning siren?
Here in the US they are called civil defense sirens and depending on the area and the tones that they emit they can indicate any number of threats to the public. Of course their first use was during WWII to warn of air raids and then nuclear attack during the cold war. Now they are probably best known as tornado sirens (at least here in the midwest) but the ones in my city can also be activated with a different tone to warn of a breach in the upstream dam which would indicate that a flood is imminent in the lower lying parts of town. There was some discussion about them on the talk-us mailing list back in May: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2010-May/003230.html Toby On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 7:17 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 28 June 2010 01:38, Johnny Rose Carlsen o...@wenix.dk wrote: Hi Alan, It's a siren, they are pretty common in Denmark. In Denmark they are used as part of a general warning system, I don't know the use of the sirens in your area. Similar things exist in various places for tornado warnings in the US... http://www.ci.sand-springs.ok.us/news-entry.php?cat=1063id=1086 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] cycle map not updating?
Yeah I emailed Andy when I first started contributing to OSM because changes weren't showing up and some zoom levels in my area returned nothing but error tiles. He said the server was totally overloaded but that he was working on an upgrade. Since then updates have been hit and miss and the zoom levels that return error tiles have changed from time to time so I suspect he has been trying to do imports but some of them fail along the way. Two days ago he tweeted that the new server was nearly ready so hopefully things will improve soon! Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Removing ways in Potlatch
If historical data is really desired then it seems like there need to be some features added to support it. By default historical data should obviously not be rendered but it also shouldn't even show up in editors unless you explicitly specify it via some option. Otherwise new mappers are going to be like I surveyed this area and there is no road there! and hit delete without giving it another thought. Heck, I've done that. There were two hospitals being rendered in my city that no longer exist. One is a frat house and the other is an apartment building. I deleted them because having a hospital icon show up in a map where there is no hospital is most definitely a BAD thing. On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 6:23 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: John Smith wrote: On 20 June 2010 17:07, Steve Bennettstevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Alex S.m...@swavely.com wrote: Some would like to see it kept and marked historical, but deleting ways Oh? Could you elaborate? Some people would like to be able to map the 4th dimension (time)... So that historical maps could be shown, but the API would have to be updated to be able to do this by specifying start/end dates and by default only return data that is still deemed current... +10 for that ... main reason I am playing with the mapping is for genealogical reasons, and it would be nice to see the state of things at a particular snapshot in time. Following the development of London for example -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging for street danger levels
Well it sounds like others agree that this could be useful information but there doesn't seem to be an existing standard. John: you can put roads that are official bike routes into a relation with these tags: type=route route=bicycle network=lcn I believe this will cause them to be rendered with a blue halo in opencyclemap at least. Mapnik doesn't seem to render any bicycle features at all. Vincent: I looked at the site you posted. It looks like you are just basing safety on the presence of cycle lanes and dedicated cycleways. Or are there some tags I'm missing? Have you discussed any kind of tagging scheme for roads without lanes? Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging for street danger levels
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: There's a school of thought that would like to see cycle maps produced in this way (the people in Cheltenham call it the Cheltenham standard), using a 5-point scale (roughly: dead-quiet, ok if you can manage a straight line, need to be able to deal with a few cars, need to be able to look over your shoulder, need to be able to go as fast as the cars at junctions). Some of these are tagged as cyclability=1|2|3|4|5, but I don't know anywhere that's done it on a comprehensive basis using OSM. You could probably derive the values from the traffic volume and the typical speed, if you want to do it scientifically. Looking at tagstat, it is indeed pretty rare. There are a total of 18 ways tagged with the cyclability tag. But I do like this idea. I don't really like relying on speed and type of road (primary, secondary, etc) for extrapolating cyclability. It is a good start but there is more that contributes to the overall cyclability of a given road. A lot of it has to do with visibility and sometimes vertical climb. I feel much more comfortable riding on busy streets if I can keep a 20+ mph pace as opposed to climbing a hill at 10. In Oxford, we tend to focus on levels 2 4 in that hierarchy, and look for how you can get about the city if your skill level has reached those two points. From that we've identified two networks for getting about (the main and quiet networks). We've used mcn=something for the main routes and lcn/lcn2=something for the quiet routes. This is certainly a good idea for producing the routes you DO want to take map. I will have to look at some of the data in Oxford and see how to adapt it here. As for rendering, you can either try to persuade Andy (the guy behing opencyclemap) that he wants to include it (or probably better) render it yourself. I've been getting quite a long way with Maperitive (which is a fairly simple but not quite fully developed renderer for the non-geek). Halcyon may also be available before too long. You can see what we've done at http://www.cyclox.org/oxford-journey-planner/cyclox-map/ Yeah, we are looking into doing some of our own rendering but if we can indeed come up with a workable standard I think it would be great to get other renderers to pick it up as well. Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Tagging for street danger levels
Someone in my area is starting up a new website that is focused on cycling in the city. They have decided to use OSM as their map which is awesome. The question is: are there any tagging conventions to indicate how dangerous a particular stretch of road is to cyclists? They want to produce a map of the city that highlights the dangerous roads to avoid in order to show how they act as barriers and make it very difficult to move around town on a bicycle. I could also see a different map that highlights the safest roads and paths. It seems like this information would also be useful to routing services to be able to come up with bicycle specific routes that avoid the certain death roads. I see a hazard= tag but it doesn't seem to be used very much and is a little too general for what I had in mind. Perhaps hazard:cycle= with some kind of hazard level indication would work. I could see using numbers (0=safe path or bike lane, 1=residential/low traffic road, 2=bigger roads with higher speed traffic, 3=avoid at all costs) or some other string based identifier if that is deemed easier to understand. Some of this information could probably be implied by the highway= tag but that is a pretty incomplete picture. There are parts of the same road here in town that vary between different levels, usually getting far more dangerous when they hit a hill and start curving around. Also, there are several highways leading out of town that are similar to each other except for traffic flow which makes some of them absolutely wonderful to ride on while others are a death trap. I realize this can be somewhat subjective but I think there could be pretty good consensus among cyclists in a given area. Since I haven't found any tags on the subject I'm assuming there is no renderer support for such a concept either so I may end up trying to do some custom rendering which is another topic entirely... But I'm thinking if there is a consensus on this then support for it could be added to opencyclemap, hikebikemap, etc. Thoughts? Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
Another thing I noticed with the GNIS data is that it doesn't seem to distinguish between airports and helipads. There was an airport in the middle of my city and I wondered where in the world that data came from. Turns out the coordinates were off by a mile which didn't help but it is actually a hospital helipad. As for airport density, I did notice a lot of them out in western Kansas when I was tagging exits along I-70. I'm guessing a lot of them are pretty small airstrips for crop dusting and such. Not sure if they should be rendered at zoom level 10 or not. I mean it's not like there is a lot of other stuff that needs rendering at zoom level 10 in western Kansas... :) Toby On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Alan Millar a...@bolis.com wrote: Either the US has a much greater density of airfields/airports than other parts of the world, I don't know about that. many airfields/airports have yet to be mapped in other areas of the world, Yes, definitely. or the GNIS import brought in a bunch of airfields that are no longer in operation. Has anyone noticed a bunch old airfields in their area created by the GNIS import that really shouldn't be on the map. I don't know if it is a bunch, but they certainly are there. I did a little research last year, and it looks like the GNIS list came from an FAA list. It appeared to include such things as clearance requested and granted for airstrips but never built, and former airstrips that have since been replaced by new construction. All I know is that when I look at the aerial imagery where some of these airfields/airports are supposed to be, all I see is a field. Could be that it's just a grass runway?. Those do exist. Whether they merit inclusion on the map is subjective. I think the large/medium/small size suggestion is a really good idea. In my town there's one airport that's supposedly in the middle of the golf course. There are some golf resorts with their own airstrips. But if you know the area, and know there is a golf course there and no airstrip, by all means feel free to fix the map and delete the obsolete airport item. Thanks for keeping an eye out for this stuff. - Alan -- Alan Millar a...@bolis.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Changing Data Attribution
According to the Key:source page on the wiki, an object can have multiple source tags. So if you go out and survey a TIGER road and discover that the name is incorrect you could change the name and add a source:name=survey tag. I guess this allows you to distinguish the source of specific elements of an object. According to this I guess I should tag all the I-70 exits in western Kansas that I recently added ref=exit number tags to with source:ref=KDOT since I used a KDOT map (these are public domain) to get the exit numbers. Toby On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com wrote: The way I see it, any given feature may have many components to it's data. With a road you've got the geometry, name, classification, surface, etc…. . These components may all come from one source, or they make come from several. If the road is unmodified since the TIGER import then the source of all these components is TIGER. If I've taken a GPS trace of the road, noted the name, classification, and surface, then I can make a new way (or modify the old one) and tag it source=GPS (or source=GPS; survey if you want to get detailed). The source of the geometry is a GPS and the source of the other components is my survey. Since I've collected all new data from the ground, TIGER is no longer the source of any component. If however I've re-aligned the geometry of a road off Yahoo imagery, I have not verified the other components. The name, surface, and classification are still from TIGER alone so it should be preserved in the source tag (source=Yahoo; TIGER). Of course if it's a road in my neighborhood that I know is called Spruce Ave, and should be tertiary then I'd tag it source=Yahoo; local_knowledge. Geometry source from Yahoo, other components from my own knowledge of the area. Then the next mapper will see that someone with knowledge of the area edited that way last and the data can be trusted more than TIGER. Basically I just think about what the actual source of the data is, and since there are multiple pieces of data about each feature it's perfectly reasonable to have more than one source. The attribution tag is a bit different. It's not about the source of the data, but about giving credit to the person, organization, government, etc who made the data available to OSM. As long as attribution is required and the source of any component of a feature is still said organization, then the attribution tag should be preserved. TIGER data is public domain, so no attribution is required. This is why data from the TIGER import only has a source tag. Source is really for the benefit of the next mapper, so they can gauge if the data they have might be better than what already exists. Zeke Burlington, VT On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Josh Kraayenbrink jakr...@gmail.com wrote: This is in relation to Lars' question with attribution on nodes and ways. I have been thinking, possibly incorrectly, about attribution on data. The Tiger import was great, but as you all know, not perfectly accurate. I have been reviewing and almost all roads, ways, etc that have been imported in my area are now corrected. The problem comes in the ways we review this imported data. If I go around and get .gpx traces and use that to move the imported roads and mark the road as reviewed, is it really still to be attributed to the Tiger import, or does the source/attribution actually change to my trace? And what about a trace of aerial photography, make a difference? I do believe attributing the data to Tiger is no longer accurate, but not one hundred percent On top of that, do I delete the current data and create a new, more accurate piece of data in its place, or simply move the Tiger data and change the attribution. While this makes absolutely no difference to the current state of the map, it does make a difference for the history of the data. Is my data actually a newer improved version of the Tiger data, or is it a new piece of data? This does not just apply to Tiger data either. If you map something, but I edit or move it, where does the attribution lie in this? Just something I have been scratching my head on as I have picked up my mapping and actually getting in the field as of late. Curious on the trains of thought or consensus on this. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Getting data from ArcIMS servers
My county uses ArcIMS to serve up their GIS data. I have received permission to use their 6 resolution aerial photos for tracing things in OSM and when asked about accessing the data, I was pointed at the ArcExplorer software. Now I just need to figure out how to use it. It seems like ArcExplorer itself is a pretty dumb client that just displays images it gets from the server. I did a packet capture while loading some data into ArcExplorer and it looks like it is a pretty simple protocol. The client sends an XML document specifying an ENVELOPE element with a bounding box (although I'm not sure what the units are in... it doesn't look like lat/long) as well as tags indicating which layers it wants. The server renders the request and then sends back a response in XML with an output URL tag that specifies a .jpg that the client then downloads and displays. All layers do appear to be pre-rendered into a single flat image so getting shape files out of it doesn't seem possible. Now, my county DOES have an FTP server where I can probably get access to the raw data however getting access to it will require more begging on my part. Not that I have a huge problem with that... but talking with others on IRC, it sounds like ArcIMS is a fairly popular product for city/county GIS systems. So I was wondering if anyone already knows more about it and if there is a good way to get OSM-usable images and/or data out of it without FTP access. If not, would it be worth it for me to look at this in more detail? The most spectacular outcome I could see would be a JOSM plugin that lets you give it an ArcIMS server URL and then acts like the WMS plugin to download background images. Thoughts? Toby ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Getting data from ArcIMS servers
Guess I should have looked at wikipedia *before* I sent the message. Turns out the requests are in a format called (surprise!) ArcXML. Full specs are here: http://downloads.esri.com/support/documentation/ims_/Support_files/arcxmlguide.htm So I guess the main question is: Is anyone already familiar with this format and/or would there be much demand in the OSM community for something that uses it? Toby On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: My county uses ArcIMS to serve up their GIS data. I have received permission to use their 6 resolution aerial photos for tracing things in OSM and when asked about accessing the data, I was pointed at the ArcExplorer software. Now I just need to figure out how to use it. It seems like ArcExplorer itself is a pretty dumb client that just displays images it gets from the server. I did a packet capture while loading some data into ArcExplorer and it looks like it is a pretty simple protocol. The client sends an XML document specifying an ENVELOPE element with a bounding box (although I'm not sure what the units are in... it doesn't look like lat/long) as well as tags indicating which layers it wants. The server renders the request and then sends back a response in XML with an output URL tag that specifies a .jpg that the client then downloads and displays. All layers do appear to be pre-rendered into a single flat image so getting shape files out of it doesn't seem possible. Now, my county DOES have an FTP server where I can probably get access to the raw data however getting access to it will require more begging on my part. Not that I have a huge problem with that... but talking with others on IRC, it sounds like ArcIMS is a fairly popular product for city/county GIS systems. So I was wondering if anyone already knows more about it and if there is a good way to get OSM-usable images and/or data out of it without FTP access. If not, would it be worth it for me to look at this in more detail? The most spectacular outcome I could see would be a JOSM plugin that lets you give it an ArcIMS server URL and then acts like the WMS plugin to download background images. Thoughts? Toby ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Getting data from ArcIMS servers
Oh that is awesome! The images are perfectly aligned with my GPS traces and as a special bonus, they seem to have been taken during the winter as there is no foliage on trees to obscure things like there is in the Yahoo imagery of my area. I can totally count parking spaces and even see the striping in the roads! I currently don't have explicit permission to use layers other than the imagery for mapping in OSM but I will have to play with this and see what's there. It might be a good idea to create a wiki page about ArcIMS servers that contains some of this information. I might look at doing it once I play with it some more... As for the configuration problems, that's not going to change until they hire a new director. I pointed out some simple link errors on their site and got a yeah... we're not going to touch it response. Thank you! Toby On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Toby, Toby Murray wrote: Oh cool. Do you know how to determine if the server is indeed running the WMS Connector and what the URL would be? I found a how to configure page about the connector which seems to indicate that it should live at /servlet/com.esri.wms.Esrimap but the county server (gis.rileycountyks.gov) returns an error for that URL. Ok they have the WMS connector running. You can add the following WMS source to JOSM to retrieve their aerial imagery: http://gis.rileycountyks.gov/wmsconnector/com.esri.wms.Esrimap?request=GetMaplayers=0format=image/jpegsrs=EPSG:4326version=1.0.0; They also offer other layers (Parks, Streets, Churches, Streets, Public Buildings, and Cities) which can be accessed by changing layers=0 to layers=1...layers=7. Trying to access the base WMS URL http://gis.rileycountyks.gov/wmsconnector/com.esri.wms.Esrimap? with a standard WMS client like QGIS will cause problems because they have not configured their server properly; if you want to do that you will have to add the line 65.71.160.130 gisweb do your /etc/hosts or wherever the DNS override resides on your OS (or phone up your friends at the county GIS dept and tell them to replace gisweb:80 by gis.rileycountyks.gov in the GetCapabilities response). Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Civil Defense Sirens?
Kansas just tested them this morning. There is one on the roof of the building I work in. But even looking at the high res (1m) photos available from the county GIS website, all I can see is there is something there but I can't pick out a distinctive siren shape. This would definitely take boots on the ground. As for testing times, isn't that usually coordinated state-wide? Or is it just local? I thought they did a full test of the emergency alert system including sirens, TV and radio break-ins at the same time but I'm not sure. On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: With the start of Tornado season in the Midwest upon us, I thought it would be interesting to map civil defense sirens: That would be fun. I'm up for making that a US Project of the Week if the international folks aren't willing to help :). Are you kidding me? What part of This is your Project of the Week. Make suggestions. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Project_of_the_week/Proposals leads you to think that suggestions aren't welcome? ;-) Please write up a draft Project of the Week. Example tags are great. wiki-format is great. Pro-tip: The closer you make it to press-ready, the more likely it is to be selected. Are the rural ones visible from aerial imagery? Only if you have very very good imagery and know what you are looking at. In Google's higher resolution imagery you can see them if you know what to look for and then if there's street view imagery available you can confirm. Obviously you can't trace from Google imagery though. I'd link to an example on Google if people think that's appropriate. Better to find an example on wikimedia commons, or to shoot your own example photo. The line between acceptable planning from a proprietary map, and unacceptable deriving data from a proprietary map is blurry enough to some. Why confuse it further? Perhaps we could start researching which states/areas have active sirens? Better to mobilize the crowd to map them. We'll get better quality from mappers than from an import. And mappers adding sirens are more likely to tag the rest of the park with the playground, sport field an water fountain. Well, Iowa for sure and I'm sure most of the states that are in Tornado Alley have them and are well tested. In Iowa it's customary to test them at noon on the 1st Saturday of the month unless there is imminent severe weather. I know of a place the tests at 1pm on Tuesday. Perhaps that should be a tag as well? man_made=tower siren=civil_defense siren:test= (something based on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:acces ) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
