[talk-ph] bulk import of wikipedia POIs to OSM
Over at the main OSM list, there is a discussion on importing POIs from wikipedia articles: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-May/036582.html The main discussion revolves around whether we should or shouldn't import given that some of the POIs location (lon/lat) maybe derived from Google Map. I'm not really familiar with wikipedia's POI data particularly for the Philippines. Do we need to add them here? Or there will be major conflicts with existing POIs we have already added. Any ideas? -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] bulk import of wikipedia POIs to OSM
I kinda sit on the fence on both the legal issues and the desirability of bulk importing specifically Philippines data. For kicking off this discussion, I'd therefore suggest that we do not do a bulk import but that we do individually use the Wikipedia map location tool. I have found this very useful for broadly locating something I am looking for even when the exact location is not accurate (often). If list members have not come across this, there are often lat/lon coords in the top right of a Wikipedia article. Click on that and you are given a list of online maps, click on OpenStreetMap map and the on the usual OpenStreetMap Edit link. I then use the landsat imagery to precisely locate the feature I am looking for and manually create a tag or way ... or adding more information to a tag that is already there. I generally use it for getting names for rivers, mountains and towns. Mike At 09:08 AM 6/05/2009, maning sambale wrote: Over at the main OSM list, there is a discussion on importing POIs from wikipedia articles: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-May/036582.html The main discussion revolves around whether we should or shouldn't import given that some of the POIs location (lon/lat) maybe derived from Google Map. I'm not really familiar with wikipedia's POI data particularly for the Philippines. Do we need to add them here? Or there will be major conflicts with existing POIs we have already added. Any ideas? -- cheers, maning ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Is Makati road-complete?
Makati is close to complete and is extremely usable already. But I wouldn't say it's 100% complete especially if we want to use it to find addresses. For instance I recently tagged the street of northern Ecology Village as missing and the residential streets in Magallanes very near the corner of EDSA and NLEX are still missing (Yahoo!'s imagery is outdated). On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 7:15 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Marloue Pidor mur...@mail2engineer.com wrote: I edited some roads in Guadalupe, named some streets. And there are lots of foot path in Brgy. Pitogo that is not in the map yet. I live in Pitogo when I'm in Manila and M. V. Laurilla St. leads to Samar St. I will be editing the area and I will be in Manila early next week. By the way, what is the From your report, it's obvious it's not yet road complete. criteria to consider an area/place to be road complete? When I say road complete, I define it as: Street names are labelled. This means that the map can be used to find an address. Roads for car traffic are present. One way streets and pedestrian streets are present. This means that the map can be used for car navigation Source: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:En:Map_status But we can define our own metric if the above definition is not sufficient. murlwe -Original Message- From: maning sambale [emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com] Sent: 5/6/2009 3:30:46 PM To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Is Makati road-complete? Follow-up to my inquiry here. Is Makati road-complete? In the main map: it has administrative boundaries up to barangay/village level; MRT stations; some building outlines; residential landuse areas; road restrictions; POIS; etc. Although there are few minor errors reported: http://openstreetbugs.appspot.com/?lon=121.02493475009584lat=14.556820060903302zoom=15 I don't go to Makati very often, therefore, I cannot mark a stamp of approval. Any Makati resident who can attest to the completeness of OSm coverage of the City? On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:37 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Of course not, everything changes. There will be new roads, old roads reclassified, Chairman BF changing u-turn slots and oneway streets. Of course, the question is what metrics should we use. We can roughly define complete as: Street names are labelled. Roads for car traffic are present. One way streets and pedestrian streets are present. This means that the map can be used for car navigation Source: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:En:Map_status On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Ed Garcia eppgar...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Maning, Just curious ... when you declare an area as road-complete, would this mean it would be sealed of from additions/edits of ways? On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:24 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: I just had a look at Makati today: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.554lon=121.0276zoom=14layers=B000FTF I have to say the data is comprehensive, roads, POIs, landuse, administrative boundaries. However, I also saw a couple of unnamed roads: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.5543lon=121.0276zoom=14layers=000BFTF Once this, unnamed roads are updated, I think it's time to review the area and declare Makati as road-complete. Can somebody, have an objective look at Makati and evaluate? I suggest we follow this scheme: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:En:Map_status Then I propose we start voting whether we declare Makati as road complete -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- website administrator: - www.waypoints.ph - reeflife.eppgarcia.com PADI Divemaster #491048 -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City)
It's tempting to mark out in OSM all of the Jollibee, McDonald's, and Starbucks branches in the Philippines but I'm wondering if this is wise. Do we mark out every retail store, every bank branch, every Western Union/FedEx/LBC outlet, and every company's office in OSM? My personal take is that we don't need to. One big problem is multi-storey malls like SM Megamall that have hundreds of tenants. It'll be quite unwieldy to maintain and edit overlapping POIs in such a small land area. I feel that the level of detail we should attain is down to the building level. If we know that there's a Jollibee in Megamall Building A, then it's enough for us to map out where Building A is, but not where the Jollibee there is exactly. In the specific case of malls, exceptions will be added for anchor tenants, like in SM Megamall: the SM Department Store, ACE Hardware, SM Supermarket, SM Cinemas, the Megatrade Halls, etc. No need to mark out each and every McDo, KFC, Jollibee, Bench, Penshoppe, Levi's, BPI, Chinabank, etc. in the mall. A comprehensive database of all retail addresses is better suited to something like OpenYellowPages, not OpenStreetMap. What do you guys think? On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:31 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.comwrote: What I mean is address information (we've discussed it already, and agreed it is important, unless I'm mistaken) not specific business establishment (although it is attached to the address). We also have numerous POIs added already. On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Ahmed Farooq ah...@enthropia.com wrote: I don’t think adding business data to OSM is a good idea - that data changes far too often and is far more complex in upkeep. -A -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City)
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 10:18 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.comwrote: Just my take, 1. If it's on the ground it should be mapped. This is a good guideline in general but of course a line has to be drawn somewhere (pun not intended). I don't think drawing the individual stripes of a pedestrian walkway is productive even if it *is* on the ground. A map is supposed to be a representation--not a facsimile of the real world. That's why we represent roads in OSM using center lines and not (at the moment) as areas. 2. If somebody bothered to map fishball vendors in Luneta, nobody's stopping him. Fishball vendors are probably not a good example for your point since they are too ephemeral to be mapped. But anyway, OSM is a community project and we work on consensus. While we do encourage people to map what they think are important, I don't think we should just let people map things like Location of Mark and Jenny's first kiss, right? 3 years ago (am I that old in OSM?), my only goal is to map major highways around the metro, now it's there. But we want more. We've mapped footways, cycleways, I even saw driveways somewhere. If somebody sees the importance of a certain feature then by all means let them map it. If I can collect data for breeding sites of all the endangered bird species (and I think it is important) I will possibly map it here. I agree there should be some limits and priorities (at the moment) but I am hopeful we will get to a point where we will map individual houses with addresses I disagree that the limits are there just for the moment. I think there should be a limit imposed at all times (the limit can move over time, but there is still a limit). For instance, Wikipedia has guidelines on what is NOT acceptable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOT) eventhough the presence of those guidelines run counter to Wikipedia's lofty aim to be the sum of all human knowledge. I think individual features for detached residential houses are OK, but I really don't think we need to place a point for every unit in high-rise condominiums. On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: It's tempting to mark out in OSM all of the Jollibee, McDonald's, and Starbucks branches in the Philippines but I'm wondering if this is wise. Do we mark out every retail store, every bank branch, every Western Union/FedEx/LBC outlet, and every company's office in OSM? My personal take is that we don't need to. One big problem is multi-storey malls like SM Megamall that have hundreds of tenants. It'll be quite unwieldy to maintain and edit overlapping POIs in such a small land area. I feel that the level of detail we should attain is down to the building level. If we know that there's a Jollibee in Megamall Building A, then it's enough for us to map out where Building A is, but not where the Jollibee there is exactly. In the specific case of malls, exceptions will be added for anchor tenants, like in SM Megamall: the SM Department Store, ACE Hardware, SM Supermarket, SM Cinemas, the Megatrade Halls, etc. No need to mark out each and every McDo, KFC, Jollibee, Bench, Penshoppe, Levi's, BPI, Chinabank, etc. in the mall. A comprehensive database of all retail addresses is better suited to something like OpenYellowPages, not OpenStreetMap. What do you guys think? On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:31 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: What I mean is address information (we've discussed it already, and agreed it is important, unless I'm mistaken) not specific business establishment (although it is attached to the address). We also have numerous POIs added already. On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Ahmed Farooq ah...@enthropia.com wrote: I don’t think adding business data to OSM is a good idea - that data changes far too often and is far more complex in upkeep. -A -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City)
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com wrote: If you have access to (data of) all locations of Jollibee, McDonalds, 7-Eleven, Ministops, Mercury Drugs and all these big companies, by all means mark them. With the exceptions of those already inside big malls (which will just clutter the map); we only need the mall-building itself as a landmark (POI) together with position of entrance gates and parking lots. Well, my idea is that if a McDo branch exists as a standalone building then there's no problem drawing the building outline and adding name=McDonald's, amenity=fastfood to it. But, as you've said, I don't think that means that we should also place a point for the McDonald's inside Robinsons Galleria. This implies that one *cannot* query the OSM database and get the coordinate locations of *all* the McDonald's branches in Metro Manila (you'll only get partial info). To get the full information, one should look elsewhere (e.g., go to www.mcdonaldsph.com, or look at ClicktheCity.com, or even start an OpenYellowPages) then geocode the obtained addresses using street data from OSM to get the actual coordinates. This actually helps create mashups applications using OSM as a tool. -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] POIs Part 2
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Ahmed Farooq ah...@enthropia.com wrote: I have to add – have you seen the Boracay map? While it looks fantastic that it is all mapped out, naming each resort/business there has lead to a map that looks absolutely bloated and is unreadable at times. For example http://www.openstreetmap.org.ph/map/c/11.960549689657205/121.925368309021/17/- “Mango Ray Shenna’s Resort” – are those two places? One? Which building is covered by their name? Multiple buildings or just one? This is a rendering problem, not a problem of data collection. It's theoretically possible to add more metadata to those resorts (like N-star rating) so that a renderer can choose to, say, display only 4- and 5-star resorts so as not to clutter a general-purpose map. This can be tied to zoom levels so that at a low zoom level, only Boracay Regency, Discovery Shores, Friday's, Shangri-La Boracay, etc. will be displayed or labeled. At higher zoom levels, more detail and labels can then be displayed. A POI should be a notable location that a tourist may be interested in – a statue, a building, even a public transit location. But specific businesses (be it fast food joints or specific resorts) only create clutter and a mess – which will only get worse as businesses are created and others go out of business. Having too much data (especially as part of the primary data set) is contrary to the spirit of an open user-maintained map. Well, I generally think that some types or classes of data are good additions to the primary data set. For instance, Asiatype publishes a paper map of the Makati CBD and Ortigas business districts showing the locations of all the buildings. I don't think having those buildings in OSM is too much data. Likewise, I think the location of all resorts in Boracay is a class of data that would be a good addition to OSM. Detached (as in stand-alone) restaurants and other dining places are OK in my opinion; they provide vital landmark info as Rally has said. On the other hand, I oppose the systematic addition of *all* tenants inside shopping malls. Some are OK (like the anchor tenants that I've mentioned in a previous e-mail). -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] POIs Part 2
Right - it isn't just about the rendering, but about the underlying data. A POI should be considered a universal point of interest - ala a landmark of building that would be included in a 'Guide to XXX City'. Loading up on all the businesses is changing from being a map to a yellowpages - which is fine if that is the idea of the project. Keeping this data upto date is far harder than actual pathways - and once businesses are no longer operating, the data will be bad - and that is a dangerous path to go down. -A From: Eugene Alvin Villar [mailto:sea...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 11:58 AM To: Ahmed Farooq Cc: maning sambale; OSM Subject: Re: POIs Part 2 On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Ahmed Farooq ah...@enthropia.com wrote: I have to add - have you seen the Boracay map? While it looks fantastic that it is all mapped out, naming each resort/business there has lead to a map that looks absolutely bloated and is unreadable at times. For example http://www.openstreetmap.org.ph/map/c/11.960549689657205/121.925368309021/17 / - Mango Ray Shenna's Resort - are those two places? One? Which building is covered by their name? Multiple buildings or just one? This is a rendering problem, not a problem of data collection. It's theoretically possible to add more metadata to those resorts (like N-star rating) so that a renderer can choose to, say, display only 4- and 5-star resorts so as not to clutter a general-purpose map. This can be tied to zoom levels so that at a low zoom level, only Boracay Regency, Discovery Shores, Friday's, Shangri-La Boracay, etc. will be displayed or labeled. At higher zoom levels, more detail and labels can then be displayed. A POI should be a notable location that a tourist may be interested in - a statue, a building, even a public transit location. But specific businesses (be it fast food joints or specific resorts) only create clutter and a mess - which will only get worse as businesses are created and others go out of business. Having too much data (especially as part of the primary data set) is contrary to the spirit of an open user-maintained map. Well, I generally think that some types or classes of data are good additions to the primary data set. For instance, Asiatype publishes a paper map of the Makati CBD and Ortigas business districts showing the locations of all the buildings. I don't think having those buildings in OSM is too much data. Likewise, I think the location of all resorts in Boracay is a class of data that would be a good addition to OSM. Detached (as in stand-alone) restaurants and other dining places are OK in my opinion; they provide vital landmark info as Rally has said. On the other hand, I oppose the systematic addition of *all* tenants inside shopping malls. Some are OK (like the anchor tenants that I've mentioned in a previous e-mail). -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8
think individual features for detached residential houses are OK, but I really don't think we need to place a point for every unit in high-rise condominiums. On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: It's tempting to mark out in OSM all of the Jollibee, McDonald's, and Starbucks branches in the Philippines but I'm wondering if this is wise. Do we mark out every retail store, every bank branch, every Western Union/FedEx/LBC outlet, and every company's office in OSM? My personal take is that we don't need to. One big problem is multi-storey malls like SM Megamall that have hundreds of tenants. It'll be quite unwieldy to maintain and edit overlapping POIs in such a small land area. I feel that the level of detail we should attain is down to the building level. If we know that there's a Jollibee in Megamall Building A, then it's enough for us to map out where Building A is, but not where the Jollibee there is exactly. In the specific case of malls, exceptions will be added for anchor tenants, like in SM Megamall: the SM Department Store, ACE Hardware, SM Supermarket, SM Cinemas, the Megatrade Halls, etc. No need to mark out each and every McDo, KFC, Jollibee, Bench, Penshoppe, Levi's, BPI, Chinabank, etc. in the mall. A comprehensive database of all retail addresses is better suited to something like OpenYellowPages, not OpenStreetMap. What do you guys think? On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:31 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: What I mean is address information (we've discussed it already, and agreed it is important, unless I'm mistaken) not specific business establishment (although it is attached to the address). We also have numerous POIs added already. On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Ahmed Farooq ah...@enthropia.com wrote: I don't think adding business data to OSM is a good idea - that data changes far too often and is far more complex in upkeep. -A -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/attachments/20090506/b445d2d9/attachment-0001.htm -- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 23:42:51 +0800 From: Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City) To: Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com Cc: OSM talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: a07a5a700905060842g4b8e4782q2a8287fc0ed29...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com wrote: If you have access to (data of) all locations of Jollibee, McDonalds, 7-Eleven, Ministops, Mercury Drugs and all these big companies, by all means mark them. With the exceptions of those already inside big malls (which will just clutter the map); we only need the mall-building itself as a landmark (POI) together with position of entrance gates and parking lots. Well, my idea is that if a McDo branch exists as a standalone building then there's no problem drawing the building outline and adding name=McDonald's, amenity=fastfood to it. But, as you've said, I don't think that means that we should also place a point for the McDonald's inside Robinsons Galleria. This implies that one *cannot* query the OSM database and get the coordinate locations of *all* the McDonald's branches in Metro Manila (you'll only get partial info). To get the full information, one should look elsewhere (e.g., go to www.mcdonaldsph.com, or look at ClicktheCity.com, or even start an OpenYellowPages) then geocode the obtained addresses using street data from OSM to get the actual coordinates. This actually helps create mashups applications using OSM as a tool. -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/attachments/20090506/1466730a/attachment-0001.htm -- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 17:04:36 +0100 From: Ronny Ager-Wick - Develo Ltd. r...@develo.ltd.uk Subject: Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City) To: OSM talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: 4a01b514.5020...@develo.ltd.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset
Re: [talk-ph] talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8
Noel, This is my opinion... It is feasible but not practical, the names of the establishments will be used as our points of interest (POI). My point is, those establishments is on the ground and should be mapped and identified. OSM will not become as you say it commercially-oriented instead, it will be very useful to have those POIs intact. For example, if you are looking for Mercury Drug because it is your preferred drugstore then if the scenario is all the names of these drugstores were removed, you will be guessing and hoping that the next drugstore is the one you preferred. Its really hard to use the map that way. In my case I downloaded the OSM tiles into my Palm (osm2palm) and I use it whenever I'm in Manila the establishment's names were very useful for me to identify my location in the map. murlwe -Original Message- From: noel mondragon [noel_pylo...@yahoo.com] Sent: 5/7/2009 8:23:11 AM To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-ph] talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8 My suggestion is that we can POI like drugstores, fastfood but we will not put the name like McDonalds or Jollibee or Mercury Drugstore??or resort? Is it that feasible. It will make the OSM as commercially-oriented if we put commercial establishments with names Comments? thanks. -noel --- On Wed, 5/6/09, talk-ph-requ...@openstreetmap.org talk-ph-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: From: talk-ph-requ...@openstreetmap.org talk-ph-requ...@openstreetmap.org Subject: talk-ph Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8 To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:55 AM Send talk-ph mailing list submissions to talk-ph@openstreetmap.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to talk-ph-requ...@openstreetmap.org You can reach the person managing the list at talk-ph-ow...@openstreetmap.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of talk-ph digest... Today's Topics: 1. POIs Part 2 (Ahmed Farooq) 2. Re: What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City) (Eugene Alvin Villar) 3. Re: What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City) (Ronny Ager-Wick - Develo Ltd.) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 11:40:05 -0400 From: Ahmed Farooq ah...@enthropia.com Subject: [talk-ph] POIs Part 2 To: 'Eugene Alvin Villar' sea...@gmail.com, 'maning sambale' emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com Cc: 'OSM' talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: 01f601c9ce60$ee0643a0$ca12ca...@com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi All, I have to add - have you seen the Boracay map? While it looks fantastic that it is all mapped out, naming each resort/business there has lead to a map that looks absolutely bloated and is unreadable at times. For example http://www.openstreetmap.org.ph/map/c/11.960549689657205/121.92536830902 1/17 / - Mango Ray Shenna's Resort - are those two places? One? Which building is covered by their name? Multiple buildings or just one? A POI should be a notable location that a tourist may be interested in - a statue, a building, even a public transit location. But specific businesses (be it fast food joints or specific resorts) only create clutter and a mess - which will only get worse as businesses are created and others go out of business. Having too much data (especially as part of the primary data set) is contrary to the spirit of an open user-maintained map. -A From: talk-ph-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-ph-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Eugene Alvin Villar Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 11:28 AM To: maning sambale Cc: OSM Subject: Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City) On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 10:18 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Just my take, 1. If it's on the ground it should be mapped. This is a good guideline in general but of course a line has to be drawn somewhere (pun not intended). I don't think drawing the individual stripes of a pedestrian walkway is productive even if it *is* on the ground. A map is supposed to be a representation--not a facsimile of the real world. That's why we represent roads in OSM using center lines and not (at the moment) as areas. 2. If somebody bothered to map fishball vendors in Luneta, nobody's stopping him. Fishball vendors are probably not a good example for your point since they are too ephemeral to be mapped. But anyway, OSM is a community project and we work on consensus. While we do encourage people to map what they think are important, I don't think we should just let people map things like Location of Mark and Jenny's first kiss, right? 3 years ago (am I that old in OSM?), my only goal is to map major
Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City)
Guys, just merging the thoughts on qualifying POIs ... how about, in addition to a POI having a street level entrance, we consider if the POI has prominent building signage? Some POIs may be inside a building but have very visible signage outside or in front of the building that serve as very good landmarks. :) ed On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Marloue Pidor mur...@mail2engineer.comwrote: In this case http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=7.078087lon=125.614181zoom=18layers=B000FTF Only KFC, Gerry's Grill and Pizza Hut have street level/accessible entrance. So if we agree on that rule of thumb to mapped only if they have a separate entrance. Should I remove Jollibee and McDonald's? Or retain the data as long as it is not cluttered? And in another case http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=7.062681lon=125.593989zoom=18layers=B000FTF All of these food chains do not have a street level entrance. murlwe -Original Message- From: Ronny Ager-Wick - Develo Ltd. [...@develo.ltd.uk] Sent: 5/7/2009 12:05:36 AM To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City) Eugene, I think what you suggest sound sensible. Could we use this as a rule of thumb: If it has a door out to street level, then it can be mapped as a POI. This way, a shop or fast foot outlet in a mall can be mapped only if they have a separate entrance. All other shops are *inside* the mall. This way it's also consistent with for example a Jollibee that is located on the ground floor of an office building, as it will have its own entrance. Ronny. Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com wrote: If you have access to (data of) all locations of Jollibee, McDonalds, 7-Eleven, Ministops, Mercury Drugs and all these big companies, by all means mark them. With the exceptions of those already inside big malls (which will just clutter the map); we only need the mall-building itself as a landmark (POI) together with position of entrance gates and parking lots. Well, my idea is that if a McDo branch exists as a standalone building then there's no problem drawing the building outline and adding name=McDonald's, amenity=fastfood to it. But, as you've said, I don't think that means that we should also place a point for the McDonald's inside Robinsons Galleria. This implies that one *cannot* query the OSM database and get the coordinate locations of *all* the McDonald's branches in Metro Manila (you'll only get partial info). To get the full information, one should look elsewhere (e.g., go to www.mcdonaldsph.com, or look at ClicktheCity.com, or even start an OpenYellowPages) then geocode the obtained addresses using street data from OSM to get the actual coordinates. This actually helps create mashups applications using OSM as a tool. -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ Get the Free email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com Unlimited Email Storage POP3 Calendar SMS Translator Much More! ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- website administrator: - www.waypoints.ph - reeflife.eppgarcia.com PADI Divemaster #491048 ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City)
My 2 Centavos on Commercial Establishments, It is nice to see them on the map but I find that the work to maintain these is going to get very difficult and a bulk load is just asking for problems. Using the Wikipedia data before I found many were out of location or just plain wrong, Thus the work to fix is quite a lot and is discouraging at times. If we just take Makati for an example the police station moved, I thought it had and checked the site. Now i live down the road from this and it was not updated. I have tried to move it and checking now at least it is no longer out side the city hall which is shown but the police and the fire station have both disappeared from where they are meant to be.. Now moving down the road from Makati City hall we have McDo but Jollibee which is has more customers is not labeled, nor is the fast food shop across the street. So do we want the head ache.. If you work for the establishment EG: McDo Philippines then go ahead and keep it up to date... If you don't then don't add them... Places of Cultural Value all should be added first.. (and they don't move..) Moving further out we have at Jupiter and Makati Ave a McDo listed but once again in the wrong place. Now does it mean that since I live here close I have to double check every week the data? What happens when I move again? Do I only add the ones I like? And then add bias to the maps? Better to exclude.. What happens if I dont like and add it in the wrong place on purpose? These are my 2 Centavo's ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City)
Just a thought, imagine osm tokyo japan contemplating on this issue. That would be one hell of a mapping problem. hehehe But I digress, please move on ... On 5/7/09, Marloue Pidor mur...@mail2engineer.com wrote: It seems to be a good idea but most of these food chains are located in front and in most cases on the ground floor/street level and most of them have a visible signage. Take for example Glorietta, most of the establishments have street level entrance Suggestion: maybe we can add these mall POIs in such a way that it is not confusing and overwhelming. When I say overwhelming, think of Mall of Asia if we add all establishments with street level entrance it would literally darken the perimeter of the building with all the POIs. Well this is just my thoughts and I could be wrong. :) murlwe -Original Message- From: Ed Garcia [eppgar...@gmail.com] Sent: 5/7/2009 10:21:44 AM To: mur...@mail2engineer.com Cc: r...@develo.ltd.uk;talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City) Guys, just merging the thoughts on qualifying POIs ... how about, in addition to a POI having a street level entrance, we consider if the POI has prominent building signage? Some POIs may be inside a building but have very visible signage outside or in front of the building that serve as very good landmarks. :) ed On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Marloue Pidor mur...@mail2engineer.com wrote: In this case http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=7.078087lon=125.614181zoom=18layers=B0 00FTF Only KFC, Gerry's Grill and Pizza Hut have street level/accessible entrance. So if we agree on that rule of thumb to mapped only if they have a separate entrance. Should I remove Jollibee and McDonald's? Or retain the data as long as it is not cluttered? And in another case http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=7.062681lon=125.593989zoom=18layers=B0 00FTF All of these food chains do not have a street level entrance. murlwe -Original Message- From: Ronny Ager-Wick - Develo Ltd. [...@develo.ltd.uk] Sent: 5/7/2009 12:05:36 AM To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-ph] What level of POIs do we add? (was Click the City) Eugene, I think what you suggest sound sensible. Could we use this as a rule of thumb: If it has a door out to street level, then it can be mapped as a POI. This way, a shop or fast foot outlet in a mall can be mapped only if they have a separate entrance. All other shops are *inside* the mall. This way it's also consistent with for example a Jollibee that is located on the ground floor of an office building, as it will have its own entrance. Ronny. Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com wrote: If you have access to (data of) all locations of Jollibee, McDonalds, 7-Eleven, Ministops, Mercury Drugs and all these big companies, by all means mark them. With the exceptions of those already inside big malls (which will just clutter the map); we only need the mall-building itself as a landmark (POI) together with position of entrance gates and parking lots. Well, my idea is that if a McDo branch exists as a standalone building then there's no problem drawing the building outline and adding name=McDonald's, amenity=fastfood to it. But, as you've said, I don't think that means that we should also place a point for the McDonald's inside Robinsons Galleria. This implies that one *cannot* query the OSM database and get the coordinate locations of *all* the McDonald's branches in Metro Manila (you'll only get partial info). To get the full information, one should look elsewhere (e.g., go to www.mcdonaldsph.com, or look at ClicktheCity.com, or even start an OpenYellowPages) then geocode the obtained addresses using street data from OSM to get the actual coordinates. This actually helps create mashups applications using OSM as a tool. -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ Get the Free email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com Unlimited Email Storage - POP3 - Calendar - SMS - Translator - Much More! ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- website administrator: - www.waypoints.ph - reeflife.eppgarcia.com PADI Divemaster #491048 span id=m2wTlpfont face=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif size=2 style=font-size:13.5px___BRGet the Free email that has everyone talking at a href=http://www.mail2world.com target=newhttp://www.mail2world.com/abr font color=#99Unlimited Email Storage #150; POP3 #150; Calendar #150; SMS #150; Translator #150; Much More!/font/font/span -- cheers,
[talk-ph] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Nominations for State of the Map Travel Scholarships
-- Forwarded message -- From: Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com Date: Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:25 PM Subject: [OSM-talk] Nominations for State of the Map Travel Scholarships To: t...@openstreetmap.org The OpenStreetMap Foundation is excited to announce a program to cover full travel and accomodations costs for 15 mappers to attend State of the Map. We're seeking nominations from the community for potential mappers. Generally, we are seeking people from places where costs would prohibit attendance, developing countries, and places that are interesting geopolitically. The ideal candidates for funding are from countries with a small OSM community, perhaps just a few mappers in total. They have made a significant start at mapping their city, either through Yahoo imagery or with their own GPS, and are directly familiar with the process of OSM. They may have started communicating among themselves, and made plans and scoped out the process for their local district. But, the community is nowhere near critical mass, and they need the inspiration and support to take OSM to the next level. We need to act fast. State of the Map is just over two months away, tickets and visas need to be arranged. In order to allow enough time for all the arrangements, the nomination period will be short, one week only, ending next Wednesday, May 13. From the nominations received, we'll review the list and choose 15 mappers to approach with the offer. Depending on their availability to attend, we'll work our way through the list. We only recently secured funding for this program, so the process has to be quick. Please send your nominations to sotm.scholars...@gmail.com. For each nomination, include the mappers name, OSM user name, email address, location, and a paragraph or two on why they'd be great to have at SOTM. And also, please forward this message to other relevant local OSM lists. As for regions, here are a few regions that seem to fit the bill, but nominations are not limited to these places at all. * Eastern Europe: the Caucasus, Russia, Bulgaria, Romania. * Arab States: Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt. Egypt is particularly interesting, as the ban on GPS units there was recently lifted. * South Asia: India, Pakistan. While both countries have seen significant activities, relative to size and population they are in the very early stages. * Southeast Asia: Phillipines, Vietnam, Thailand. * South America: Colombia, Bolivia, Peru. Promising leads in government for the release of data for use in OSM. * East Africa: Kenya is a hotspot for mapping right now (Ushahidi, AgCommons, MapMaker..) Many thanks to the Open Society Institute for helping make this happen. -Mikel ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] [OSM-talk] Nominations for State of the Map Travel Scholarships
We are mentioned here: * Southeast Asia: Phillipines, Vietnam, Thailand. Anybody willing to represent OSM-PH? I guess it's worth trying to nominate one from the group. On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:39 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com Date: Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:25 PM Subject: [OSM-talk] Nominations for State of the Map Travel Scholarships To: t...@openstreetmap.org The OpenStreetMap Foundation is excited to announce a program to cover full travel and accomodations costs for 15 mappers to attend State of the Map. We're seeking nominations from the community for potential mappers. Generally, we are seeking people from places where costs would prohibit attendance, developing countries, and places that are interesting geopolitically. The ideal candidates for funding are from countries with a small OSM community, perhaps just a few mappers in total. They have made a significant start at mapping their city, either through Yahoo imagery or with their own GPS, and are directly familiar with the process of OSM. They may have started communicating among themselves, and made plans and scoped out the process for their local district. But, the community is nowhere near critical mass, and they need the inspiration and support to take OSM to the next level. We need to act fast. State of the Map is just over two months away, tickets and visas need to be arranged. In order to allow enough time for all the arrangements, the nomination period will be short, one week only, ending next Wednesday, May 13. From the nominations received, we'll review the list and choose 15 mappers to approach with the offer. Depending on their availability to attend, we'll work our way through the list. We only recently secured funding for this program, so the process has to be quick. Please send your nominations to sotm.scholars...@gmail.com. For each nomination, include the mappers name, OSM user name, email address, location, and a paragraph or two on why they'd be great to have at SOTM. And also, please forward this message to other relevant local OSM lists. As for regions, here are a few regions that seem to fit the bill, but nominations are not limited to these places at all. * Eastern Europe: the Caucasus, Russia, Bulgaria, Romania. * Arab States: Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt. Egypt is particularly interesting, as the ban on GPS units there was recently lifted. * South Asia: India, Pakistan. While both countries have seen significant activities, relative to size and population they are in the very early stages. * Southeast Asia: Phillipines, Vietnam, Thailand. * South America: Colombia, Bolivia, Peru. Promising leads in government for the release of data for use in OSM. * East Africa: Kenya is a hotspot for mapping right now (Ushahidi, AgCommons, MapMaker..) Many thanks to the Open Society Institute for helping make this happen. -Mikel ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] [OSM-talk] Nominations for State of the Map Travel Scholarships
i would like to nominate Maning Sambale to represent the OSM-PH. :-) On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:47 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.comwrote: We are mentioned here: * Southeast Asia: Phillipines, Vietnam, Thailand. Anybody willing to represent OSM-PH? I guess it's worth trying to nominate one from the group. On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:39 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com Date: Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:25 PM Subject: [OSM-talk] Nominations for State of the Map Travel Scholarships To: t...@openstreetmap.org The OpenStreetMap Foundation is excited to announce a program to cover full travel and accomodations costs for 15 mappers to attend State of the Map. We're seeking nominations from the community for potential mappers. Generally, we are seeking people from places where costs would prohibit attendance, developing countries, and places that are interesting geopolitically. The ideal candidates for funding are from countries with a small OSM community, perhaps just a few mappers in total. They have made a significant start at mapping their city, either through Yahoo imagery or with their own GPS, and are directly familiar with the process of OSM. They may have started communicating among themselves, and made plans and scoped out the process for their local district. But, the community is nowhere near critical mass, and they need the inspiration and support to take OSM to the next level. We need to act fast. State of the Map is just over two months away, tickets and visas need to be arranged. In order to allow enough time for all the arrangements, the nomination period will be short, one week only, ending next Wednesday, May 13. From the nominations received, we'll review the list and choose 15 mappers to approach with the offer. Depending on their availability to attend, we'll work our way through the list. We only recently secured funding for this program, so the process has to be quick. Please send your nominations to sotm.scholars...@gmail.com. For each nomination, include the mappers name, OSM user name, email address, location, and a paragraph or two on why they'd be great to have at SOTM. And also, please forward this message to other relevant local OSM lists. As for regions, here are a few regions that seem to fit the bill, but nominations are not limited to these places at all. * Eastern Europe: the Caucasus, Russia, Bulgaria, Romania. * Arab States: Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt. Egypt is particularly interesting, as the ban on GPS units there was recently lifted. * South Asia: India, Pakistan. While both countries have seen significant activities, relative to size and population they are in the very early stages. * Southeast Asia: Phillipines, Vietnam, Thailand. * South America: Colombia, Bolivia, Peru. Promising leads in government for the release of data for use in OSM. * East Africa: Kenya is a hotspot for mapping right now (Ushahidi, AgCommons, MapMaker..) Many thanks to the Open Society Institute for helping make this happen. -Mikel ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
