Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations
On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: I happened to be near one of these today, and I had to move it about 8 meters. REVERT! (not really, just kidding) ... My only comment about this import would be that I don't think that it is useful to accompany an import with mass notes or FIXMEs. If someone notices that the position is off, they'll correct it or leave a note. In this case it wasn't too serious because the number of data points is low, but would be more of a problem with a larger dataset. From what I've seen the notes have worked really well: better than I could have hoped. Every few days someone finds one of those notes, hunts down the tool stand, and closes the note. A number of note closers have been beginning mappers as well: perhaps these notes represent a mapping task that's both in their area and accessible at their level of mapping comfort. If the notes have brought a modest number of mappers out of the glow of their computer screens, and out into the community, that's great. -- Most of the nodes were pretty close: but the occasional one has moved pretty far (at least 40 meters). Every station searched for on the ground has been found, with one exception. That station was subsequently deleted from both OSM and the vendor database at Dero corporation. The on the ground mapper took multiple visits to the site, after the company provided more details. But it's just not there. -- Perhaps the notes that remain after a set period (maybe a year) should be bulk deleted. The notes in the USA are getting resolved at a steady pace. The notes in the UK (which were imported without nodes) have not attracted much interest. I am concerned that some mappers will fix a tool stand location, but never notice the corresponding note. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations
I happened to be near one of these today, and I had to move it about 8 meters. REVERT! (not really, just kidding) I think this was a useful dataset for import. And if there were some variations on the actual position, I don't see how this is any different from typical mapping errors, such as the POI that someone had placed on the wrong building, resulting in a 30 meter error. My only comment about this import would be that I don't think that it is useful to accompany an import with mass notes or FIXMEs. If someone notices that the position is off, they'll correct it or leave a note. In this case it wasn't too serious because the number of data points is low, but would be more of a problem with a larger dataset. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations
1) Import complete for USA Washington, Oregon, Idaho 2) I've noted a somewhat unfortunate trend: hand mappers have added several bicycle shops with the tag bicycle_repair_station and no other tags. The new tag was intended for 27/4 unattended stations, shops have existing tagging. On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: I'm ready to start this import: the input to date has been carefully considered and adjustments made. I'm intending to add notes for locations where the press releases are insufficiently specific to correctly position the node I'm aware of one private station, which I will map with access=private. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations
I'm ready to start this import: the input to date has been carefully considered and adjustments made. I'm intending to add notes for locations where the press releases are insufficiently specific to correctly position the node. Often, the press releases are specific enough, but not always. The notes interface seems like the most practical method of attracting a very local mapper to go and kick the node into the exact right spot. I'm aware of one private station, which I will map with access=private. I considered leaving it out, but suspect if I do it will cause trouble in the future. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations
Bryce, One of six of the ASU Dero stations have been adjusted. I went to the end of the east valley for other survey activity. I adjusted the Dero station at the ASU Polytech campus. This station was in ASU gold. I might be able to adjust the others during the week. http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3345300838 . The total trip took 9:15 hours and 168 miles! Man has the east valley grown. Regards, Greg On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 1:01 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for sharing your mapping project. Regards, Greg Greg; There are five locations shown on the Arizona State University Tempe campus. Could you ground truth those? I'll find an excuse to get out that way over the weekend. One is way out there at the Polytechnic campus. I uploaded the Arizona State University points to get you hunting :-). Note that at the Tempe campus, my data shows four stations, the map shows three: http://www.asu.edu/parking/pdf/bike-map.pdf I added a matching map note at: https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/315164 The odd thing about mapping bike repair stations is that a huge fraction of them are findable via google in the form of press releases(!). Often there's no map, just a list of places in the text of the press release, and perhaps the name of the Boy Scout who organized the project ;-). ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for sharing your mapping project. Regards, Greg Greg; There are five locations shown on the Arizona State University Tempe campus. Could you ground truth those? I'll find an excuse to get out that way over the weekend. One is way out there at the Polytechnic campus. I uploaded the Arizona State University points to get you hunting :-). Note that at the Tempe campus, my data shows four stations, the map shows three: http://www.asu.edu/parking/pdf/bike-map.pdf I added a matching map note at: https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/315164 The odd thing about mapping bike repair stations is that a huge fraction of them are findable via google in the form of press releases(!). Often there's no map, just a list of places in the text of the press release, and perhaps the name of the Boy Scout who organized the project ;-). ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: I'd like to start with California and Arizona (70 nodes), and add notes where on-site survey is needed to exactly align to the OSM base layer. What's different about this import is that armchair mappers can get only so far, verifying press releases and such. The features are too small to spot even on the best available air photos (e.g. better than the Bing ones). Even the street cameras are not generally enough: this really takes in person spotting. Any more comment / objection? The import wiki page for this ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair ) references a python script. Is this script available to look at? I'm looking through the mailing lists and I can't find any sample .osm files for data that you plan to import. Can you send out a link? Have you created a separate OSM user account dedicated for this import? Peter ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for sharing your mapping project. Regards, Greg Greg; There are five locations shown on the Arizona State University Tempe campus. Could you ground truth those? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations
I'd like to start with California and Arizona (70 nodes), and add notes where on-site survey is needed to exactly align to the OSM base layer. What's different about this import is that armchair mappers can get only so far, verifying press releases and such. The features are too small to spot even on the best available air photos (e.g. better than the Bing ones). Even the street cameras are not generally enough: this really takes in person spotting. Any more comment / objection? On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 11:40 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: To summarize: a proposed import of of bicycle repair stations. The database is maintained by a vendor of bicycle repair stations, the data quality is spot on in many cases, and geocoding level in other cases with the pins generally in the right area. The stations are too small to find on an air photo, but frequently do appear in press releases than be found with a search engine. The vendor uses OSM as a base map: http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html The discussion is on the imports list. The data is at: http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html Discussion centers on how best to improve the inexact pin locations. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations
On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 6:00 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: Dero does not happen to have a ref or primary key for their data. Some other vendor or site may have an actual value here Much as emergency phones or some institutional assets. I finally get what you are doing with the ref. I believe you are adding the ref from your data based on the dropbox file that you provided. How accurate was the pin? Good enough to find the station? Are there more nearby? The photos are up https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair. The accuracy is good enough to find the station. I did not try to GPS the station because of the building reflections. I did not look at the picture before adding the node. Perhaps the node could move to the west. ASU installed the station by a walkway into the parking garage. The station is near bike racks. The irony is that there are two gas station grade air hoses on the other side of the wall. ;-) The charging tag needs work: what style of charger? Is the charging free? I left that in from others work but feel it should be a separate node. As far as all the tagging questions, I added the tags based on reading the wiki and my initial confusion over the import process. It is all open source. Do what you will with the node and wiki page. Classically: If broken, then you get to keep both pieces. Regards, Greg ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote: ... In a note tag I added a reference to your import page. That would be useful for other mappers to know why and how. Seems like this note would be better suited for the changeset comment instead of the OSM Object. I added service:bicycle:charging=no based on the main page. There's a few electric bicycle shops around downtown. I added a website tag and pointed to the Dero fix it map. I think it's better to make the simplest URL possible here. For this case, use http://www.dero.com/; instead of http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html; Web developers change their mind about how they want their sites laid out all the time. Usually the domain name remains the same. I added source_alt = survey. I am guessing that source=osmsync:dero is part of you conflation process. If so, then you might want to make that clear on you import page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair Information about the source of data makes a lot more sense as a source tag on the changeset instead of the OSM Object. I dutifully added ref=none but did not understand the point. Will this be part of the conflation magic? If so, then you might want to make that clear on you import page. I don't think there is any precedence for using the actual value none for a ref tag (or any other tag). If you are trying to indicate that there is no reference number associated with these, then just omit the ref tag. --Peter ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations
Dero does not happen to have a ref or primary key for their data. Some other vendor or site may have an actual value here Much as emergency phones or some institutional assets. How accurate was the pin? Good enough to find the station? Are there more nearby? The charging tag needs work: what style of charger? Is the charging free? I left that in from others work but feel it should be a separate node. On Sunday, February 8, 2015, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote: Oh! How soon I forget: key key=ref value=none / change to key key=ref value=lt;nonegt; / and that parses OK. Regards, Greg On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com javascript:; wrote: To summarize: a proposed import of of bicycle repair stations. The database is maintained by a vendor of bicycle repair stations, the data quality is spot on in many cases, and geocoding level in other cases with the pins generally in the right area. The stations are too small to find on an air photo, but frequently do appear in press releases than be found with a search engine. The vendor uses OSM as a base map: http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html The discussion is on the imports list. The data is at: http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html Discussion centers on how best to improve the inexact pin locations. I've been meaning to go see one of these since you introduced the topic back in January. Curiosity fosters most of my mapping. I was in the area and surveyed the actual location. In my case the bicycle repair station was on the south side of the Cronkite building but on the north side of the parking garage. That makes sense because it was by the bike lockers. I have a bunch of pictures that I can include on your import page or add some US flair to the bicycle_repair_station tag page for the main article if you would like. Please let me know. Here's some questions and notes: I don't see the need to limit the tool list to the one listed in the bicycle_repair_station wiki page. I added service:bicycle:screwdriver to the POI that I added. That would be handy to know for other people than just bicycle people. I did not look at all the other available tools on the stand. In a note tag I added a reference to your import page. That would be useful for other mappers to know why and how. I added service:bicycle:charging=no based on the main page. There's a few electric bicycle shops around downtown. I added a website tag and pointed to the Dero fix it map. I added source_alt = survey. I am guessing that source=osmsync:dero is part of you conflation process. If so, then you might want to make that clear on you import page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair I dutifully added ref=none but did not understand the point. Will this be part of the conflation magic? If so, then you might want to make that clear on you import page. There is a problem with ref=none if you are going to create a one touch preset. Please see the preset below. I had to change the preset to key key=ref value=.none. /. The none generates this error during Josm startup, Error parsing ...az_preset.xml: The value of attribute value associated with an element type null must not contain the character. That was way off in left field if you ask me. must generate an xml error. item name=Dero POI icon=images/../styles/standard/vehicle/rental/bicycle.png type=node preset_name_label=true key key=amenity value=bicycle_repair_station / key key=brand value=Dero / key key=opening_hours value=24/7 / key key=operator value=Arizona State University / key key=note value=https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair; / key key=ref value=.none. / key key=service:bicycle:chaintool value=no / key key=service:bicycle:charging value=no / key key=service:bicycle:pump value=yes / key key=service:bicycle:screwdriver value=yes / key key=source value=osmsync:dero / key key=source_alt value=survey / key key=website value= http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html; / /item Here's my change information. http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/28718833 http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3339010296 I don't know if this will render but I think it would be useful to on the bicycle map. Regards, Greg ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations
Oh! How soon I forget: key key=ref value=none / change to key key=ref value=lt;nonegt; / and that parses OK. Regards, Greg On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: To summarize: a proposed import of of bicycle repair stations. The database is maintained by a vendor of bicycle repair stations, the data quality is spot on in many cases, and geocoding level in other cases with the pins generally in the right area. The stations are too small to find on an air photo, but frequently do appear in press releases than be found with a search engine. The vendor uses OSM as a base map: http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html The discussion is on the imports list. The data is at: http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html Discussion centers on how best to improve the inexact pin locations. I've been meaning to go see one of these since you introduced the topic back in January. Curiosity fosters most of my mapping. I was in the area and surveyed the actual location. In my case the bicycle repair station was on the south side of the Cronkite building but on the north side of the parking garage. That makes sense because it was by the bike lockers. I have a bunch of pictures that I can include on your import page or add some US flair to the bicycle_repair_station tag page for the main article if you would like. Please let me know. Here's some questions and notes: I don't see the need to limit the tool list to the one listed in the bicycle_repair_station wiki page. I added service:bicycle:screwdriver to the POI that I added. That would be handy to know for other people than just bicycle people. I did not look at all the other available tools on the stand. In a note tag I added a reference to your import page. That would be useful for other mappers to know why and how. I added service:bicycle:charging=no based on the main page. There's a few electric bicycle shops around downtown. I added a website tag and pointed to the Dero fix it map. I added source_alt = survey. I am guessing that source=osmsync:dero is part of you conflation process. If so, then you might want to make that clear on you import page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair I dutifully added ref=none but did not understand the point. Will this be part of the conflation magic? If so, then you might want to make that clear on you import page. There is a problem with ref=none if you are going to create a one touch preset. Please see the preset below. I had to change the preset to key key=ref value=.none. /. The none generates this error during Josm startup, Error parsing ...az_preset.xml: The value of attribute value associated with an element type null must not contain the character. That was way off in left field if you ask me. must generate an xml error. item name=Dero POI icon=images/../styles/standard/vehicle/rental/bicycle.png type=node preset_name_label=true key key=amenity value=bicycle_repair_station / key key=brand value=Dero / key key=opening_hours value=24/7 / key key=operator value=Arizona State University / key key=note value=https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair; / key key=ref value=.none. / key key=service:bicycle:chaintool value=no / key key=service:bicycle:charging value=no / key key=service:bicycle:pump value=yes / key key=service:bicycle:screwdriver value=yes / key key=source value=osmsync:dero / key key=source_alt value=survey / key key=website value=http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html; / /item Here's my change information. http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/28718833 http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3339010296 I don't know if this will render but I think it would be useful to on the bicycle map. Regards, Greg ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
