Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hello Thomas, On Monday, September 17, 2007 Thomas Fernandez wrote: Hello NetVicious, On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 23:49:07 +0200 GMT (17/09/2007, 04:49 +0700 GMT), NetVicious wrote: N I vote for HTML templates. I know a lot of people hates HTML, but N companies use this type of templates for add his logos, use colors on N the signature, etc. People should select between HTML template or N normal plain text template. I second this. Sure. But first we need to have a decent HTML viewer. Putting aside the question of downloading external images -- just proper viewing of (X)HTML and CSS formatting... is essential. While TB does support some formatting, its HTML renderer is a very buggy one. Not only limited, but also buggy. The question that appeared in my head is, if Ritlabs have enough resources to code a proper HTML+CSS renderer (which is like 60% of a web browser). Perhaps it would be good to use one of existing renderers and cut it to our needs? OTOH that could raise security concerns. Anyway if HTML-templates are added, and HTML viewer is not dramatically improved, we'll end up in a situation where TB! can't view messages that he created himself. Strange feeling ;) Regardas, -- Krzysztof Trybowski Gadu-Gadu: 1458144 --- Skype: trybowski AQQ: 141062 --- ICQ: 4350719 --- gpg key-id: 0xC937B0F2 Using The Bat! 3.99.24 [reg] under Windows XP 5.1 build 2600. Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hello NetVicious, On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 23:49:07 +0200 GMT (17/09/2007, 04:49 +0700 GMT), NetVicious wrote: N I vote for HTML templates. I know a lot of people hates HTML, but N companies use this type of templates for add his logos, use colors on N the signature, etc. People should select between HTML template or N normal plain text template. I second this. -- Cheers, Thomas. Durch einen Lichtstrahl drangen in der Nacht zum Freitag unbekannte Taeter in den Supermarkt ein. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 3.99.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hello George, On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 20:07:10 +0300 GMT (16/09/2007, 00:07 +0700 GMT), George M. Menegakis wrote: GMM The Bat! is an all powerful e-mail client. That's exaggerated. I'd say The Bat! is most likely the most powerful e-mail client for plain-text messages. :-) As has been pointed out, for HTML messages we have the choice of either viewing only the pictures that are sent with the message (from within TB!) or only the pictures that need to be downloaded from the 'net (in the browser). There is no way to completely display an HTML message that has both embedded pictures and others that have to be downloaded. Bad for reading email newsletters. (As was mentioned, downloading pictures from the 'net should be an option only, so that people who don't want this feature can choose to not activate it.) MyGate is a good plug-in for reading newsgroups. I have used it for years. There is a plug-in to read RSS feeds with TB!. I forgot the details, as I don't use it. Neither do I use calendars. But I think plug-ins are the way to go for those who want additional functionalities, as the ones do don't need it, don't need to be burdened (in the sense of computing power) by having them implemented in the main program. Just my 2p worth. -- Cheers, Thomas. The next time you feel like complaining, remember: Your garbage disposal probably eats better than thirty percent of the people in this world. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 3.99.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hello Thomas, Sunday, September 16, 2007, 3:26:19 PM, you wrote: Neither do I use calendars. But I think plug-ins are the way to go for those who want additional functionalities, as the ones do don't need it, don't need to be burdened (in the sense of computing power) by having them implemented in the main program. This is even better. Though I would very like welcomed full calendaring functionality I wouldn't mind this been implemented in a plugin. I would even pay for that assuming that the functionality met my needs. I don't think that rss is very essential (though I have bought feedemon I rarely use it) but if a simple rss was implemented in a plugin I would also been interested. Newsgroups on the other hand is for me more serious issue. I'm subscribed to many text newsgroups and bat's db power would be very welcomed to a newsgroup client. I have tried mygate but I wasn't satisfied with it. Been long time user of Agent and Dialog I have many demands from a newsreader. The Bat! could met them but not with a plugin like mygate. Anyhoo, I think that Ritlabs should focus to the demands of corporate environment. Making Bat reliable IMAP Exchange client should be top priority. Calendaring would be a very welcomed addition too no matter how implemented (builtin or plugin). But implementing trivial stuff like image downloading on demand is also a very welcomed addition. -- George M. Menegakis Using The Bat v3.99.24 on Windows XP Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: TB v4 outlook....
sábado, 15 sep 2007 at 10:47, it seems you wrote: Well, in my opinion the following topics would make The Bat much more valueable: - loading of pictures and external content manually inside the viewer It was debated long time ago with a lot of messages. Personally I will say ok if it's one option. - supporting of Calendars via iCalendar or CalDAV (to implement full calendar functionality to The Bat (and being able to synchronize e.g. with Zimbra mail server)) I proposed years ago TB! should be 100% fully compatible with Exchange mail-boxes/Calendars/... it would be a very good option for not use Outlook. I proposed it when Outlook had a lot of bugs of security. - Newsgroup-Support - RSS support I know they could be used within plugins. - Archiving Functionality (files with a special age are archived to one or more new datastore files). However it should be possible to have a view avaialble where you can see archived and non-archived mails. For me it also would make sense to split archives for special values (e.g. that you have one archive file per year or so). Good one, as Outlook does. It will be a very good and easy way to continue using very BIG accounts without using the hack of password protected accounts for this type of archiving. Please feel free to add your wihes as well. I guess that the loading of pictures of HTML mails gets more and more important as more and more mails (unfortunately) use HTML mails. But don't exclude that feature because some people say mail is text and nothing else. For these people you can make a unix-mail GUI... ;) I vote for HTML templates. I know a lot of people hates HTML, but companies use this type of templates for add his logos, use colors on the signature, etc. People should select between HTML template or normal plain text template. -- /\/ Using The Bat! 3.99.24 Professional / \ / \ / Windows XP (5.1.2600 Service Pack 2) /\/ e t \/ i c i o u s Plugins: AntiSpamSniper 2.6.1.2 and miniRelayPlug 0.05.50 Moderator of Spanish TBUDL Spanish Translation Coordinator of The Bat! Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hello, Friday, September 14, 2007, 2:19:31 PM, you wrote: How about telling us what you have planed for the v4? It is a major version leap - so there should be something major new it?!? Well, in my opinion the following topics would make The Bat much more valueable: - loading of pictures and external content manually inside the viewer - supporting of Calendars via iCalendar or CalDAV (to implement full calendar functionality to The Bat (and being able to synchronize e.g. with Zimbra mail server)) - Newsgroup-Support - RSS support - Archiving Functionality (files with a special age are archived to one or more new datastore files). However it should be possible to have a view avaialble where you can see archived and non-archived mails. For me it also would make sense to split archives for special values (e.g. that you have one archive file per year or so). Please feel free to add your wihes as well. I guess that the loading of pictures of HTML mails gets more and more important as more and more mails (unfortunately) use HTML mails. But don't exclude that feature because some people say mail is text and nothing else. For these people you can make a unix-mail GUI... ;) -- Best regards, Martinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: TB v4 outlook....
9/15/2007 7:44 AM Hi Martin, On 9/15/2007 Martin Schneider wrote: MS - Archiving Functionality (files with a special age are archived to MS one or more new datastore files). However it should be possible to MS have a view avaialble where you can see archived and non-archived MS mails. For me it also would make sense to split archives for special MS values (e.g. that you have one archive file per year or so). You can have this right now by creating an archival account. If you want annual separations create sub-folders. I bought TB in 1998 because I wanted a focused email client that securely did most of the work for me. I have not been disappointed. I hope it doesn't become contaminated with non email functions, especially if it compromises TB's security. There are plenty of those kinds of choices out there already. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: TB v4 outlook....
Martin, How about telling us what you have planed for the v4? It is a major version leap - so there should be something major new it?!? Well, in my opinion the following topics would make The Bat much more valueable: - loading of pictures and external content manually inside the viewer I think that graphic support is becoming necessary for programs that handle email because email so often includes graphics these days. - supporting of Calendars via iCalendar or CalDAV (to implement full calendar functionality to The Bat (and being able to synchronize e.g. with Zimbra mail server)) - Newsgroup-Support - RSS support But these are needs that can be filled many other ways, and are not really part of doing email well. They don't really add value to an email client as some others have found. Instead they add unnecessary complexity, and opportunity for program error. What happens as the old timers become ornate and enlarged, is that newcommers pop up saying, hey look at us, we are simple, easy and quick. Those attributes, along with design excellence are the real virtues. - Archiving Functionality (files with a special age are archived to one or more new datastore files). However it should be possible to have a view avaialble where you can see archived and non-archived mails. For me it also would make sense to split archives for special values (e.g. that you have one archive file per year or so). But ultimately, Rit isn't offering a list, and isn't asking for suggestions. -- Gleason Using 3.99.24 on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: TB v4 outlook....
9/15/2007 8:01 AM Hi Gleason, On 9/15/2007 Gleason Pace wrote: GP I think that graphic support is becoming necessary for programs that GP handle email because email so often includes graphics these days. Embedded graphics are supported. Do you trust all of those who do not embed? Not me! If the message has merit it can be opened in the browser which makes it my choice rather than the sender's choice. GP But these are needs that can be filled many other ways, and are not GP really part of doing email well. They don't really add value to an GP email client as some others have found. Instead they add unnecessary GP complexity, and opportunity for program error. What happens as the GP old timers become ornate and enlarged, is that newcommers pop up GP saying, hey look at us, we are simple, easy and quick. Those GP attributes, along with design excellence are the real virtues. Well said. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: TB v4 outlook....
Hey Martin, Well, in my opinion the following topics would make The Bat much more valueable: - loading of pictures and external content manually inside the viewer nice idea, i like this feature in thunderbird, but i do use plain text most of the time, but i do tend to check HTML messages every now and then - supporting of Calendars via iCalendar or CalDAV (to implement full calendar functionality to The Bat (and being able to synchronize e.g. with Zimbra mail server)) dont use it, so i wont comment - Newsgroup-Support The Bat! is a email client, treat it as such, use a dedicated newsgroup program, i can give you some links to some freeware clients - RSS support same as above - Archiving Functionality (files with a special age are archived to one or more new datastore files). However it should be possible to have a view avaialble where you can see archived and non-archived mails. For me it also would make sense to split archives for special values (e.g. that you have one archive file per year or so). this is a great idea just my 2 cents -- I'm using The Bat! 3.99.24 (www.ritlabs.com) on Windows XP Service Pack 2 Yoda of Borg I am. Assimilated you will be. Resistance futile is! Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: TB v4 outlook....
Hello Paul, Saturday, September 15, 2007, 1:51:57 PM, you wrote: You can have this right now by creating an archival account. If you want annual separations create sub-folders. I bought TB in 1998 because I wanted a focused email client that securely did most of the work for me. I have not been disappointed. I hope it doesn't become contaminated with non email functions, especially if it compromises TB's security. There are plenty of those kinds of choices out there already. Not so easy. I have many subfolders. I want them automatically archived. And I focussed on an e-mail-client that offers most flexibility. As Netscape-Mail was not flexible enough I was using That Bat - and I am still happy about that. However other clients got more and more features that nowadays are wanted by many people. So, my suggestion for your very native e-mail-client is that Ritlabs is doing the standard and professional style (like now) by having only the e-mail functions implemented in the standard version. Everything else is additionally put to the pro version. -- Best regards, Martinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: TB v4 outlook....
Hello Gleason, Saturday, September 15, 2007, 1:56:10 PM, you wrote: - RSS support But these are needs that can be filled many other ways, and are not really part of doing email well. They don't really add value to an email client as some others have found. Instead they add unnecessary complexity, and opportunity for program error. What happens as the old timers become ornate and enlarged, is that newcommers pop up saying, hey look at us, we are simple, easy and quick. Those attributes, along with design excellence are the real virtues. I agree with you that it is not necessarily a function of an e-mail program. But why do you think many e-mail clients are not successfull anymore? I guess because the people see that integrated functions offer more values. I use a separate news client. When I want to send mails it always is a little bit messy - and more when you have to use more than one e-mail-client on a computer. So I manually have to copy paste to send a mail from news. What happens when there is an attachment. Okay, I have to save it and add it. Not very nice. The same for RSS feeds. I use Great News which is working fine for me. However I can't store it in the same place like mails. When doing some search you can file articles in special folders like mails you got for the search... So, basically I think that this functionality should come closer together. I think the vision must be to have one program for similar data. From security point of view there is no problem in my eyes. Ritlabs need not to write an own browser or whatever. Simply use the existing ones. (And please - don't use IE for showing webpages.) - Archiving Functionality (files with a special age are archived to one or more new datastore files). However it should be possible to have a view avaialble where you can see archived and non-archived mails. For me it also would make sense to split archives for special values (e.g. that you have one archive file per year or so). But ultimately, Rit isn't offering a list, and isn't asking for suggestions. That's true. However the success of Rit is when they have satisfied users. And I think it is correct to ask the users (existing ones and new ones) what they want and what they need. What I don't want to see is that The Bat also gets open source or even closed because the selling isn't enough... And there is another point: when they put more new functions - I think the (IMHO) stupid discussion of a free upgrade is gone. -- Best regards, Martinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: TB v4 outlook....
Hello Paul, Saturday, September 15, 2007, 2:05:29 PM, you wrote: GP But these are needs that can be filled many other ways, and are not GP really part of doing email well. They don't really add value to an GP email client as some others have found. Instead they add unnecessary GP complexity, and opportunity for program error. What happens as the GP old timers become ornate and enlarged, is that newcommers pop up GP saying, hey look at us, we are simple, easy and quick. Those GP attributes, along with design excellence are the real virtues. Well said. Well, have a look which e-mail clients got more and more successfull? Unfortunately not the ones that were designed simple, easy and quick. I think it is important to have the design simple and easy - but additional functionality has not necessarily to make changes in the usage. There must be ways that the excessive users with a huge filtering list, many accounts and many keyboard shortcuts can use the tool the same way like the first time user. So important is: think different and look beside the borders. I know many e-mail-clients. And The Bat still is my favourite. However some functions I miss there. -- Best regards, Martinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[5]: TB v4 outlook....
9/15/2007 9:54 AM Hi Martin, On 9/15/2007 Martin Schneider wrote: MS So important is: think different and look beside the borders. As previously stated by Gleason, integrated (suite) programs add many layers of complexity which make these programs unstable and unmanageable. ZoneAlarm is a great example. I do not expect my hammer to saw or plane or scrape...nor do I expect a knife to be a scissors or a spoon to be a fork or a blender to be a toaster. I do not want my email client to be a news reader either. They are separate functions. I am a consultant and database application designer for 19 years and was in favor of suite type programs at their inception. However, they have grown to be unwieldy behemoths requiring far too many hardware and software resources and huge compromises of the user's privacy and security. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: TB v4 outlook....
9/15/2007 10:08 AM Hi Martin, On 9/15/2007 Martin Schneider wrote: MS Not so easy. I have many subfolders. I want them automatically MS archived. And I focussed on an e-mail-client that offers most MS flexibility. As Netscape-Mail was not flexible enough I was using That MS Bat - and I am still happy about that. However other clients got more MS and more features that nowadays are wanted by many people. Creating an archival account once a year and naming it with the year will do this. Not totally automatic but certainly not painful or labor intensive. I know many people who still do not set the clock on their video recording devices or cameras. Of what value is the clock for these people? Having been around the world training people in many cultures I have seen the vast majority not even understanding a program's features and so most of these 'features' remain unused. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hallo Martin, On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:47:26 +0200GMT (15-9-2007, 10:47 +0200, where I live), you wrote: MS Well, in my opinion the following topics would make The Bat much MS more valueable: MS - loading of pictures and external content manually inside the viewer Much more valuable is a bit exaggerated, but that would be nice. MS - supporting of Calendars via iCalendar or CalDAV (to implement full MS - Newsgroup-Support MS - RSS support Bloat in a mail client MS - Archiving Functionality (files with a special age are archived to Ever looked into the possibilities of 'alternate deletion'? Can be set in folder and account settings. You can purge to alternate locations, might be just what you're wishing for. Then again, it might not be. -- Groetjes, Roelof FIDO: the Information Frontage Road. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.99.24 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 3 pop3 accounts OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgp2yTIHqNYFN.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: TB v4 outlook....
Paul, GP I think that graphic support is becoming necessary for programs that GP handle email because email so often includes graphics these days. Embedded graphics are supported. Do you trust all of those who do not embed? Not me! If the message has merit it can be opened in the browser which makes it my choice rather than the sender's choice. Not sure why it is ok for a browser to display remote graphics, but not an email client. In the case of IE, the browser is definitely not the better choice. I think the email client should handle such images safely. It can be done. And I think users should have the choice to display or not. But this is a very old disagreement, and the sides do not reconcile in my experience. But the majority is shifting towards those who want to be able to read their emails without interference. -- Gleason Using 3.99.24 on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hi Martin, on Sat, 15 Sep 2007 15:28:04 +0200GMT (15.09.2007, 15:28 +0200GMT here), you wrote: MS I use a separate news client. When I want to send mails it always is a MS little bit messy - and more when you have to use more than one MS e-mail-client on a computer. So I manually have to copy paste to send MS a mail from news. What happens when there is an attachment. Okay, I MS have to save it and add it. Not very nice. You can use The Bat! as a news reader already with the MyGate plugin. It is no longer developed by its author, but it works. You can get it here: http://www.thebatworld.de/modules/download/index.php?op=viewlinkcid=27 -- Cheers Peter The Bat! v3.99.24 :beta: on WinXP, SP2, 5, 1, build 2600 plenty of POP accounts, no IMAP, OTFE disabled AMD Athlon 2200+ at 1794 MHz, 512 MB RAM Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: TB v4 outlook....
9/15/2007 12:29 PM Hi Peter, On 9/15/2007 Peter Meyns wrote: PM You can use The Bat! as a news reader already with the MyGate plugin. PM It is no longer developed by its author, but it works. You can get it PM here: PM http://www.thebatworld.de/modules/download/index.php?op=viewlinkcid=27 Opera works great too and is a more appropriate choice IMO. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hello Martin, Saturday, September 15, 2007, 11:47:26 AM, you wrote: Well, in my opinion the following topics would make The Bat much more valueable: - loading of pictures and external content manually inside the viewer Hear hear! - supporting of Calendars via iCalendar or CalDAV (to implement full calendar functionality to The Bat (and being able to synchronize e.g. with Zimbra mail server)) - Newsgroup-Support - RSS support Once upon a time I strongly disagreed about newsgroup support. RSS wasn't invented that time. But our world changes and programs like Bat have to keep pace or be obliterated. But there is a problem though: The Bat! is an all powerful e-mail client. Can it also be an all powerful newsgroup/rss/calendar client? If tb could be that I would gladly pay again the full price but I seriously doubt it. And really is there any meaning in be a powerful e-mail client and a mediocre newsgroup/rss/calendar? And let's argue that a basic rss functionality is good enough. Let's argue even that a basic newsgorup functionality is also enough. Calendaring functionality is crucial if tb is trying to establish itself in the corporate environment. Can be implemented this good to hit outlook? Can the exchange support be better? Can imap work correctly? Newgroups and rss are very good toys but Ritlabs should focus to things that corporate world is interested. Calendaring and proper imap exchange support. Hell, forget even calendaring. Give proper imap exchange support and then do whatever you like! -- George M. Menegakis Using The Bat v3.99.24 on Windows XP Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: TB v4 outlook....
Martin, I agree with you that it is not necessarily a function of an e-mail program. But why do you think many e-mail clients are not successfull anymore? I guess because the people see that integrated functions offer more values. A number of reasons, not the least of which is that new users (young people) in this part of the world, at least, seem to prefer web based email. Very few features, they simply want to deal with a few emails a week with no fuss. Remembering the Mulberry email client that added support for calendaring as you suggest as a last ditch effort. Not long after Mulberry went bankrupt. No, this kind of thing is not a great source of new users, which is not the same thing as making current users happy. I use a separate news client. When I want to send mails it always is a little bit messy - and more when you have to use more than one e-mail-client on a computer. So I manually have to copy paste to send a mail from news. What happens when there is an attachment. Okay, I have to save it and add it. Not very nice. The thing that people forget sometimes, I think, is that things like newsgroup clients require years of development to do well. A half way nntp client tacked onto an email client will not be any more satisfying than a half way email client tacked onto an nntp client. There are a number of these choices available. If you want a half way nntp client, look at Pocomail or Gemini. If you want a half way email client, look at Fore's Agent. Agent's implementation is instructive of the problem involved in uniting nntp with pop. Agent does have email filters, but they were obviously designed for newsgroups. Nntp and pop need different treatments in a number of ways to give users a feeling of being able to do the things they need to do with the type of information they are trying to manage. I suspect, there are very few users casual enough to be satisfied with half way pop or nntp if they are going to use either at all. The same for RSS feeds. I use Great News which is working fine for me. However I can't store it in the same place like mails. When doing some search you can file articles in special folders like mails you got for the search... So, basically I think that this functionality should come closer together. As a practical matter, this is a very difficult request. So far, nobody has managed to put together a really workable union. Not to mention that you want not only two unions, but three. TB's copyright statement says that TB has been in development for 10 years. This is probably about average for many of the clients out there. TB's email could work better, but in comparison to other offerings, it looks pretty good. Are you willing to give Rit 10 years for nntp, and then another 10 for RSS? Is anybody? That's true. However the success of Rit is when they have satisfied users. Not current users. Long term viability depends on attracting new users. These two groups are very different in what they think they want. And there is another point: when they put more new functions - I think the (IMHO) stupid discussion of a free upgrade is gone. Rit can do a paid upgrade once in a while, and have done. It is no substitute for attracting new users. The one client that seems to be expanding its userbase these days is Thunderbird. To me it looks like it is 4 or 5 years behind the mature clients that are available. What is it that Thunderbird is doing right that the others are not? I confess that I am not able to see it. -- Gleason Using 3.99.24 on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: TB v4 outlook....
9/15/2007 1:25 PM Hi George, On 9/15/2007 George M. Menegakis wrote: GMM Newgroups and rss are very good toys but Ritlabs should focus to things that GMM corporate world is interested. Calendaring and proper imap exchange support. GMM Hell, forget even calendaring. Give proper imap exchange support and then do GMM whatever you like! I'm with you. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: TB v4 outlook....
hi Paul, PVN Embedded graphics are supported. Do you trust all of those who do not PVN embed? Not me! If the message has merit it can be opened in the PVN browser which makes it my choice rather than the sender's choice. I agree with you that the default behaviour should not be to open automatically embedded graphic. However it would be useful to have either a) the possibility to load the graphic if you want without using an external browser b) the possibility to have the option to authorize the bat to automatically load embedded graphic as a possible action in sorting office/filters. i.e. if the sender is x then automatically load embedded graphic. -- Fabio Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[5]: TB v4 outlook....
9/15/2007 1:26 PM Hi Gleason, On 9/15/2007 Gleason Pace wrote: GP Not sure why it is ok for a browser to display remote graphics, but GP not an email client. In the case of IE, the browser is definitely not GP the better choice. GP I think the email client should handle such images safely. It can be GP done. And I think users should have the choice to display or not. But GP this is a very old disagreement, and the sides do not reconcile in my GP experience. But the majority is shifting towards those who want to be GP able to read their emails without interference. I believe it should be a user per incident choice. Purposely opening a tab in a browser accomplishes this. I do not need to worry about the nasty payload some SPAM has hidden behind a link to a particular website. I can quickly go to the sites I determine are valuable on a per message basis. Since I disable IE it isn't a challenge for me. Opera, occasionally Firefox or K-Meleon keep my customers and me from the IE nasties. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[5]: TB v4 outlook....
9/15/2007 1:45 PM Hi Fabio, On 9/15/2007 Fabio Cipparone wrote: FC option to authorize the bat to automatically load embedded graphic as a possible FC action in sorting office/filters. i.e. if the sender is x then automatically FC load embedded graphic. An elegant solution. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hi Paul, on Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:30:54 -0400GMT (15.09.2007, 18:30 +0200GMT here), you wrote: PM You can use The Bat! as a news reader already with the MyGate plugin. PM It is no longer developed by its author, but it works. You can get it PM here: PM http://www.thebatworld.de/modules/download/index.php?op=viewlinkcid=27 PVN Opera works great too and is a more appropriate choice IMO. I don't know. I am only subscribed to 6 or 7 news groups with a daily average of 80 to 150 posts. That works well with The Bat! and MyGate, even with a 56k modem, which I am temporarily forced to use. :) -- Cheers Peter The Bat! v3.99.24 :beta: on WinXP, SP2, 5, 1, build 2600 plenty of POP accounts, no IMAP, OTFE disabled AMD Athlon 2200+ at 1794 MHz, 512 MB RAM Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hello Paul, Saturday, September 15, 2007, 2:05:29 PM, you wrote: PVN Embedded graphics are supported. Do you trust all of those who do not PVN embed? Not me! If the message has merit it can be opened in the PVN browser which makes it my choice rather than the sender's choice. In which case you don't see the embedded graphics. Nice, nice, very nice... -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! Version 3.99.24 MyMacros 1.11a zOmbie's Macros Version 0.7 Windows 2000 Professional/5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 (0 days 11:52:1) on Uno AMD Duron Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[5]: TB v4 outlook....
Hello Gleason, Saturday, September 15, 2007, 1:28:21 PM, you wrote: What is it that Thunderbird is doing right that the others are not? I confess that I am not able to see it. I believe Thunderbirds success and popularity is because it is riding piggyback with the success of Firefox. -- Best regards, Timmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
TB v4 outlook....
How about telling us what you have planed for the v4? It is a major version leap - so there should be something major new it?!? :) Also I would like to know what the policy is this time around to the new major version - do we all have to buy it again or is an update from the actual version to the v4 for people who have paid for the v3 free of charge?!? Thanks! Christian Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hallo Christian, On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:19:31 +0200GMT (14-9-2007, 14:19 +0200, where I live), you wrote: I How about telling us what you have planed for the v4? Yes, I'd like a little roadmap too. -- Groetjes, Roelof I think therefore I am overqualified. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.99.24 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 3 pop3 accounts OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpNqGo03rPQN.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hi Roelof, I How about telling us what you have planed for the v4? Yes, I'd like a little roadmap too. Hmm, roadmap... Never heard this word on this list before... Maybe we'll see re-introduced bugs fixed first. Then new MicroEd and HTML images download. Who knows. -- All the best, Peter Gannushkin http://sonicbeet.com/ http://downtownmusic.net/ Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Mod: HTML use (was: TB v4 outlook....)
Hallo Christian, On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:19:31 +0200GMT (14-9-2007, 14:19, where I live), you wrote: I How about telling us moderator Note: This moderator's interjection is a note to all readers and not just to the person being replied to, even if their post may have instigated this reply. Please don't feel singled out Christian. ' Please do not send HTML messages to the list except for purposes of testing. While the merits of HTML are debatable, and have been discussed numerous times on the lists, the list rules prohibit HTML e-mail. You can easily automate this by using %SetEditor=1 in your list template. To find out why these MOD messages are posted to the list instead of private mail, please read the welcome message you received when you subscribed. Thank you. /moderator -- Groetjes, Roelof May the Great God of Moderators smile upon you. pgpYX5lCU8HFu.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hello all, Friday, September 14, 2007, Peter Gannushkin wrote: Hmm, roadmap... Never heard this word on this list before... really never? ;-) There was a roadmap info for V2, after V3.0 and after V3.5., I hope, we will hear little roadmap for V4. Maybe we'll see re-introduced bugs fixed first. Then new MicroEd and HTML images download. Who knows. GUI will be changed too AFAIK. -- Bye Marek Mikus Czech support of The Bat! http://www.thebat.cz Using the best The Bat! 3.99.24 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 2.6.1.2 Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 1 GB RAM Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
RE: TB v4 outlook....
Maybe we'll see re-introduced bugs fixed first. Then new MicroEd and HTML images download. Who knows. GUI will be changed too AFAIK. What about IMAP? -- Best Regards, Vilius Šumskas LNK TV system administrator mob.: +370 614 75713 http://www.lnk.lt Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Hi Marek, Hmm, roadmap... Never heard this word on this list before... really never? Just teasing. Anyway, there were bits and pieces but never a real long term roadmap. Maybe we'll see re-introduced bugs fixed first. Then new MicroEd and HTML images download. Who knows. GUI will be changed too AFAIK. Huh, this means all functionality will be broken for quiet some time. Can't wait to see that. -- All the best, Peter Gannushkin http://sonicbeet.com/ http://downtownmusic.net/ Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB v4 outlook....
Vilius, On 14-09-2007 15:32, you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: What about IMAP? Hear, hear! -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.99.3 Pro /thebat versionextras MyGate, AVG /extras env. 2 POP3, 14 IMAP (Courier) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 200K+ msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 /os Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
