Please unsubscribe me

[Frank Schweppe]

Leif,

Can you get me off this list? Since subscribing I'm getting
far too much email. Did not realise that this would happen, and
sometimes I have to pick up my mail using a palmtop and a very expensive 9600 bps
cellphone connection.

Thanks,
Frank Schweppe
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re[2]: TB! WishList

[Eberhard Hafermalz]

Hello Steve,

Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 4:51:45 PM, you wrote:

> Monday, May 01, 2000, 10:57:53 PM, Eberhard wrote:

> There was also this great guy called Bill Gates who put everything that
> people wanted into a large, monolithic application.  It is now unwieldy,
> bloated, difficult to use and understand.

In this we are brothers in mind. I guess I have made that clear in the
past. Further, I will be among the first jumping onto the AMIGA NG
bandwagon ASAP. I am praying every day that ppl finally may realize
what a bag of crap is being sold to them as "technological revolution"
each time a new "version" of Windoze hits the market. That they
understand that a single tasking OS cannot become true
multi-tasking by re-defining the meaning of multi-tasking the M$ way.
That multi-media is not an invention of MicroSloth but in fact has been
incorporated much smoother in earliest versions of MacOS, AmigaOS,
Atari OS when M$DOS users still were using green-black screens. That
development in computer techs does not mean the diffrence between 700
MHz or 1 GHz. That the architecture of current IBM PCs is based on
technology developed in the late 60s. That it is a miracle of marketing
rather than quality how this OS could acquire the postion to grant its
copyright owners monopoly power in the first place.

Difference is: Gill Bates NEVER really listened to his victims.
He just corrected mistakes the need for whose correction his
idiocy had created in the first place.
To prevent just that from happening with rare pieces of coding such as
TB! we are discussing. I hope.

> The whole reason I pointed out that there were other applications that
> could poll multiple POP accounts into a single account is to stress that not
> every package should implement every neat feature or combine everything into

My words exactly. But this does not obliterate the need to discuss it, IMHO.
Lines such as "Already there" or "It does" don't help much.
In fact, I am very impressed by the idea alone mentioned here ( I
guess it was you), that is  not to include a two-version editor but
to make use of a third party product one. This is, AFAI can see, a
fairly uncommon concept on this sad platform which needs to be supported
by all means - ALA there is no choice.

> one.  *I* use TB! because it doesn't combine everything into one single
> account.  In fact it is one of only /two/ mailers that I know of (of over 30+
> I've personally used in the past decade or so) which doesn't do that.  I find
> that to be a very powerful feature and would prefer not to have the bloat of
> the "alternative" programmed in when there are several other decent mailers
> available that do just that very think.  I believe it is Alex who uses Pegasus
> mail and could best explain how nice that package is despite my personal
> distaste for it based on interface and underlying logic.

I despise PM just as much. But should this force me to shut up when I
find sth in TB! I dislike or think of sth to be improved? Improvement
is a matter of taste, to a large extent. I happily bend to all the ppl
here stating good reasons why TB! should do XYZ the way it does. I
will not bend to RTFM (or the equivalent).
-- 
Best regards,
 Eberhard Hafermalz

Q. How many skeptics does it take to change a light bulb?
A. What makes you think a light bulb can be changed anyway?

Created with 1.42 Beta/20 - The only W98 mailer living up to the term...

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Stephen]

S>> So I think the title bar should at least say something like - View
S>> Folder Bat of ServNet   Sorted by Receive Time (Ascending)

TF> ServNet - Bat View Folder (...)

TF> Why not mention the name fo the folder first, as Netscape mentions the
TF> name of the web site first? This way, you don't have five buttons in
TF> the task bar saying "View Fo..."


I didn't realize the taskbar uses the same material as the title bar
of the window.  Thanks for the heads-up.  Yes, your idea is a good
one, except I would put the folder name first, as that may be all I
get to see in the taskbar.So I'll try again (below) for the title
bar text idea.

Bat - ServNet Folder Sorted by [Receive
Time (Ascending)]

-- 
Best regards,
 Stephen

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: template macros

[Chuck Smith]

On  Tuesday, May 02, 2000  at  19:03:38 GMT -0400 (EDT) 
(which was 7:03 PM where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:

Hello Max,

> Hi,

>  I'm looking for a way to setup filters to bounce spam and send a CC
> to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Should a message template starting with this
> work?

> %rexexpblindmatch=%ofromaddr
> %setpattregexp=".*(@.*)"
> %cc=postmaster%subpatt=1

> Thanks,
> Max

> +-+
> | Max Kessler +--+
> | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]|
> | POBox 93135  http://www.acs.brockport.edu/~mk8093/ |
> | Rochester, NY 14692  http://www.angelfire.com/ny/cybermansoftware/ |
> ++
> Gun control means hitting where you aim.




> Hi,

>  I'm looking for a way to setup filters to bounce spam and send a CC
> to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Should a message template starting with this
> work?

> %rexexpblindmatch=%ofromaddr
> %setpattregexp=".*(@.*)"
> %cc=postmaster%subpatt=1

remeber that most spam if from fraudulent address. The only way to
properly report is read and decypher the message header. I have been
learning to do that and have been actively reporting to abuse.net.

-- 
Best regards,
 Chuckmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: Wish List II (was Re: Automatic send)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Alberto,

On Tue, 2 May 2000 20:31:31 +0200GMT (03/05/2000, 02:31 +0800GMT),
Alberto Almagioni wrote:

AA> I see an option in the "sorting office/filters" about the screen saver
AA> status: is this working also on screen-energy-save-option? I don't use
AA> screensaver but if this works (or could work) also with "energy save"
AA> when the monitor is off by energy save my filter will work otherwise
AA> not.
AA> Is bthis possible?

Yes. But there is one problem: if for some reason the screen saver is
not active while TB! receives new mails, they will not be forwarded to
your GSM phone.

If you live alone, nobody has a key to your appartment, and there are
no earthquakes in your area or heavy trucks passing by, this could be
the solution to your problem. ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.41
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Delete thread on server (was: Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi List,

this thread makes me wonder if I have a "delete thread on server"
option in the message dispatcher. I certainly don't want to download
this thread at NT$ 60/hour, average about 1K/min, when I get home.

Thanks.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.41
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Leif Gregory]

Hello Allie, 

On Tue, 2 May 2000 at 12:58:42 [GMT -0500], you wrote:
AM> I just tried it Steve. I am using beta 20. In thread view
AM>  deletes single messages with no other messages
AM> attached. I'm not smoking anything. I'm not hallucinating. :-) I'm
AM> using TB! version 1.42b20 in Win2K.


G... This is why we separate TBUDL and TBBETA. :-)


Leif Gregory 

-- 
TBUDL/TBBETA List Moderator
ICQ 216395 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Web Site   
TBUDL FAQ  

Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20 under Windows 98 4.10 Build  A  
on a Pentium III 500 MHz notebook with 128MB.

Tagline of the day:
A bunch of bunnies hopping backwards:  a receding hare line.



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Jast,


On  Tuesday, May 02, 2000  at  15:14:55 GMT +0200 (which was 6:14 AM
where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:


> Morning Januk,

>  How is it annoying? I have one account set to check mail every minute.
>  When I'm online it does just that. When I'm off, I am not bothered.

>  Possibly you're missing the option "No automatical dial for periodicaly
>  checking" in Options/Network&Administration?

 I didn't use TB's dialer when I had a dial-up connection.  So TB
 never knew when I was offline or online.  As SyP mentioned, it has to
 do with setting TB to manual connection or LAN mode.

 So TB would keep checking mail even when I was offline, and that
 meant it would produce the error sound whenever there was a failed
 attempt to connect to the server.  The error sound every few minutes
 is very annoying.  :)

 


-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 

Could someone ever get addicted to counseling?
 If so, how would you treat them?

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re[2]: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Gary Luther]

Hello All;

  Well it finally happened. the "autoformat" topic went over
  the edge. Not only has it wasted a lot of bandwidth but it has
  also shown that if a topic is discussed long enough that it will
  eventually bring out the worst side of us. Hm!!

  SUGGESTION:  If a topic can't be resolved between two parties
  within a few (not sure what few means kinda like the
  definition of "is"  :-) then take it offline. If something
  brilliant (generally, not likely) comes of it then be kind
  enough to make a final post so that we peons on the list can
  perhaps learn something.

  I am a bit disappointed at how long this has gone on. Nothing
  was resolved, nobody changed anyones thinking process or biases
  and finally ended up in some really ugly dialog.

  We wonder why world peace doesn't happen and we have just seen
  why.

  So.. next time take it offline.

  My two cents.not meant to offend anyone but just bring the
  list back to something meaningfullike Jody's
  ClipClass..Yeah!!

-- 
Best regards,
 Garymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 3838 Beechnut Street #1
 East Helena, MT 59635
 (406) 227-2240


-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Allie Martin]

On Tue, 2 May 2000 14:48:06 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:

8<

> Simple.  The block which is a paragraph is the one defined with a hard CR
> and the one that is not is defined with a soft CR.  How TB! defines those is
> up to the internal logic which is, as I demonstrated, not limited to the logic
> of the transmit medium.

 Let me put on my bib.

What's the difference between a hard and soft return?

My understanding is that a hard CR is one that the user invokes usually
with the keyboard which indicates that the cursor is moved to a new line
and this new line will be universally reflected. This is in contrast to a
soft CR where the wrapping is virtual so to speak as in when one enables
wrapping in a document so that it may be read more easily. The points
where the lines are re-wrapped for reading although the document is
unaffected is called soft returns. IOW, if I copy and paste a Word
document to my editor, each line is one long stream of text, with window
wrapping disabled. This is in contrast to copy and pasting a TB! message
just composed.

The reason why I wish to clarify this is because with TB!, when composing
and the lines get wrapped, these CR's, although inserted by the editor,
really equate to hard CR's. The wrapping isn't redone upon sending as far
as I can tell. This is the basis behind it's strict WYSIWYG editing
engine. The concept of a soft CR is therefore not present in this editor
as far as my knowledge of what it is goes.

-- 
© 2000 Allie Martin   /*\   Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro
---
Urghm! - "Oxymoron: Sharp Cookie. "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re[2]: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Gary]

Hi Allie,

On Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 7:37:56 PM, you wrote in part about "auto-format is too 
robotic isn't it?":

A> OK, I understand what you were saying and see that it will indeed
A> work though in a limited fashion. It was a problem with the wording
A> of what you had said.

Personally, I think TB! editor should be exactly like Emacs.  :-) :-)

-- 
 
Best regards,
 Gary  

Today's thought: I know you believe you understand what you think I
said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I
meant.

PGP Public Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=SendPGPKey

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Allie Martin]

On Wed, 3 May 2000 01:25:04 +0400, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote:

8<

> In my previous message I suggested that the indented line should be
> considered as the paragraph _boundary_, note further that I suggested
> this  only as a quick fix to what we have right now (see also below).
> This would  mean the following: if I have the text formatted this way:

>   some text

> then start typing immediately after the word "text" above, the "autoformat" _is_ 
> active all right (again, download and install WinEdt to understand what I mean: 
> this program can be configured to behave exactly this way!). This means that 
> eventually I get:

>   some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
> text some text some text some text some text some text some text some text 
> some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
> text

> Now look further. _If_ I now place my cursor this way:

> 
>   some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
> text some text

> and start typing, the new input _is_not_ considered as the part of the "some 
> text" paragraph, since indented line is considered as a paragraph break. This 
> means that the text I type in is considered a _separate_ paragraph and 
> autowrapped as such.

OK, I understand what you were saying and see that it will indeed work
though in a limited fashion. It was a problem with the wording of what you
had said.

I hope that this point comes clear of all this 'colourful' discussion. :-)

Although Alex's suggestion will work with creating paragraphs not
separated by a blank line but each indented, it would be limited in scope
because this fix would still lead to the inability to create lists like
this:

allie
martin
using
the
bat

 toggle still has to be used.

-- 
© 2000 Allie Martin   /*\   Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro
---
Urghm! - "640K ought to be enough for anybody. - Bill Gates, 1981 "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Tom Plunket]

AVK> Mistake #1 on your side: you think plain ASCII is a limitation of some
AVK> (unknown to me) sort, whereas _I_ think ASCII is a _power_, a well-thought 
AVK> standard that those guys who invented "soft returns" and things alike (read: 
AVK> M$ with its Word and heaps of others) just plain spoiled.

Soft returns and ASCII aren't even like comparing apples to oranges,
more like comparing horses to trees.  Soft returns can be poorly
implemented or not, but in the end anyone who thinks any editor of any
power simply has a huge buffer with only text in it representing the
document is kidding themselves.

Not that I know the first thing about writing an editor, but I've
thought about it and can't imagine it's an easy thing to do well.

AVK> Well, it follows that _your_ choice is Word's way of doing
AVK> things, despite your dislike towards M$.

Word didn't invent the soft return, fwiw.

AVK> There's _nothing_ in word- processing world that cannot be done
AVK> (and done _better_) with just plain ASCII. Wanna examples? TeX
AVK> for typesetting...

Am I the only one that remembers that TeX does way more than you
typically need for email?  Not to mention it's not exactly "human
readable."

Also, to bring the topic back to where it seems to have started, am I
the only one who remembers that paragraph breaks in TeX are specified
by a blank line?

AVK> I'd prefer the editor NOT to use those soft returns at all. I do not use soft
AVK> returns in my work. I do not use Word and wordprocessors alike. And I'm still 
AVK> alive, and my health is perfect;-)

If you are using auto-format, you're using soft returns.  There's no
two ways about it.

AVK> Did you read what I had written? Was my English unclear? I said that this is a
AVK> matter of the quantities of programming work needed to implement it this or 
AVK> that way.

There are better editors available for less money.  What's the (your)
point?

>> Simple.  The block which is a paragraph is the one defined with a hard CR
>> and the one that is not is defined with a soft CR.  How TB! defines those is
>> up to the internal logic which is, as I demonstrated, not limited to the logic
>> of the transmit medium.

AVK> Then algorithms are necessary that convert one form to another and vice 
AVK> versa. The implementation of the "soft-hard" way of editing from the ground 
AVK> up. In short, you want the editor to be rewritten...

No "algorithms" any more powerful than are already part of the "build
the SMTP stream" are needed.  See a "soft CR" tag, send "CR".  See a
"hard CR" tag, send a "CR".  A lot easier than, say, implementing an
autoformat mode that causes users all sorts of irritation.

So yeah, technically that's an algorithm, but I tend to not think of
"if/then" logic as particularly algorithmic simply because they're so
easy to understand and implement.

-tom!

-- 
Hopin' this said *something* useful, [EMAIL PROTECTED] out.

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 2 May 00, at 15:38, Steve Lamb wrote
about "Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?":

Okay, this has been my last message to this list. I'm sick and tired of those 
AMERICAN IDIOTS over here who can only shout, can only be unnecessarily 
rude to others. The next my message will be the unsub one. 

Look at yourself, how proud of yourself you are! That's how a piece of shit is 
very probably proud of itself Come here, and i'll teach you how a man 
should behave himself, just COME HERE!

> Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 3:14:59 PM, Alexander wrote:
> > Mistake #1 on your side: you think plain ASCII is a limitation of some
> > (unknown to me) sort, whereas _I_ think ASCII is a _power_, a well-thought
> > standard that those guys who invented "soft returns" and things alike (read:
> > M$ with its Word and heaps of others) just plain spoiled.
> 
> Mistake #2: You think I have some love for M$?  Trust me, hard and soft
> CRs come from my Fido days well before I even used a PC.  Try again.
> 
> > Well, it follows that _your_ choice is Word's way of doing things, despite
> > your dislike towards M$.
> 
> No, I was pointing out that by limiting yourself to looking at the data
> one way you're limiting what the program can do.  A program is a black box, it
> doesn't matter what the data looks internally as long as it can be passed in
> and out of in well known and accepted manners.
> 
> Quite frankly, I am insulted that you would associate me with your limited
> way of thinking.
> 
> > That's your choice, but let me think differently.
> 
> I'll pity you for thinking in a limited manner.
> 
> > There's _nothing_ in word- processing world that cannot be done (and done
> > _better_) with just plain ASCII. Wanna examples? TeX for typesetting, HTML
> > for web publishing. _No_ need in RTF, DOC, XLS, etc., etc., etc., etc...
> 
> MmmKay you, pal.  Just go MMmKay yourself.  Where the MmmKay did I /EVER/
> say the format had to be used outside the program!?  HUH?  WHERE DID I SAY IT.
> GO BACK READ THE MMMKAYING MESSAGE AND TELL ME WHERE I SAID IT.  I SAID THAT
> THE DATA, INTERNALLY, CAN BE MANIPULATED ANY MMMKAYING WAY YOU FELT LIKE AS
> LONG AS IT LEFT THE PROGRAM AS NEEDED.  I really /HATE/, yes, /HATE/ people
> like you who don't *READ* what is written and instead mouth-off and place
> words in other people's mouths!
> 
> Here they are again since it is clear you lack the mental capacities to
> READ and therefore the capacities to go back to a message and actually find
> what I wrote!!!
> 
> "Therefore it is clear that TB! is able to represent the data in a manner,
> internally, which does defy the limitations of the transmit medium and, upon
> sending, can translate down to that medium."
> 
> READ THIS:  "...and, upon sending, can translate down to that medium."
> 
> In short you pontificating, arrogant poo, I never once said the medium was
> RTF, DOC, XLS, etc, etc, etc.  It could be TEX, HTML, SGML, XML (all ASCII as
> far as I know) since the program would be taking the internal representation
> of that data and translating it INTO THAT MEDIUM.
> 
> Is that clear enough for you or will I have to go find a special ed
> teacher to work with you on that /very/ easy to understand statement?
> 
> > Did you read what I had written? Was my English unclear? I said that this is
> > a matter of the quantities of programming work needed to implement it this
> > or that way.
> 
> I did read what you wrote.  You clearly didn't read what I wrote, did you?
> I never said a hex code.  I never said it couldn't be ASCII.  I just said that
> how TB! represents such a construct internally and displays it has no bearing
> on what it sends out externally.  Personally I was thinking that double-CRs
> would be a hard CR while a single is not.  You displayed how it could be with
> a space at the beginning of a line which completely ignores the problems with
> that but I digress into a realm you clearly cannot being to think about
> without putting on a bib!
> 
> > Then algorithms are necessary that convert one form to another and vice
> > versa. The implementation of the "soft-hard" way of editing from the ground 
> > up. In short, you want the editor to be rewritten...
> 
> In case you didn't notice, poobrain, is that what you were describing
> already did that in the same manner.  You also failed to see that the editor
> clearly does not represent the data in perfect ASCII
>  since
>   things
> like
> this
> are
> possible.
>  If
>they
>were
>working
>   with
>  

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Tom Plunket]

>> My suggestion would be, never to cancel hard returns. This should solve
>> everything.

AVK> Allie, will you please understand that within plain/text medium there is no way 
AVK> for the program to distinguish between _your_ hard returns and the hard 
AVK> returns inserted by the line-wrapping algorithm?

"They" could know when you hit the  key while editing and just
strip that info (or forget it) on send...

I prefer to have line-seperated paragraphs with no indent in email,
personally.  ;)


-tom!

-- 
Hopin' this said *something* useful, [EMAIL PROTECTED] out.

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

template macros

[Max Kessler]

Hi,

 I'm looking for a way to setup filters to bounce spam and send a CC
to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Should a message template starting with this
work?

%rexexpblindmatch=%ofromaddr
%setpattregexp=".*(@.*)"
%cc=postmaster%subpatt=1

Thanks,
Max

+-+
| Max Kessler +--+
| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]|
| POBox 93135  http://www.acs.brockport.edu/~mk8093/ |
| Rochester, NY 14692  http://www.angelfire.com/ny/cybermansoftware/ |
++
Gun control means hitting where you aim.


-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Steve Lamb]

Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 3:14:59 PM, Alexander wrote:
> Mistake #1 on your side: you think plain ASCII is a limitation of some
> (unknown to me) sort, whereas _I_ think ASCII is a _power_, a well-thought
> standard that those guys who invented "soft returns" and things alike (read:
> M$ with its Word and heaps of others) just plain spoiled.

Mistake #2: You think I have some love for M$?  Trust me, hard and soft
CRs come from my Fido days well before I even used a PC.  Try again.

> Well, it follows that _your_ choice is Word's way of doing things, despite
> your dislike towards M$.

No, I was pointing out that by limiting yourself to looking at the data
one way you're limiting what the program can do.  A program is a black box, it
doesn't matter what the data looks internally as long as it can be passed in
and out of in well known and accepted manners.

Quite frankly, I am insulted that you would associate me with your limited
way of thinking.

> That's your choice, but let me think differently.

I'll pity you for thinking in a limited manner.

> There's _nothing_ in word- processing world that cannot be done (and done
> _better_) with just plain ASCII. Wanna examples? TeX for typesetting, HTML
> for web publishing. _No_ need in RTF, DOC, XLS, etc., etc., etc., etc...

MmmKay you, pal.  Just go MMmKay yourself.  Where the MmmKay did I /EVER/
say the format had to be used outside the program!?  HUH?  WHERE DID I SAY IT.
GO BACK READ THE MMMKAYING MESSAGE AND TELL ME WHERE I SAID IT.  I SAID THAT
THE DATA, INTERNALLY, CAN BE MANIPULATED ANY MMMKAYING WAY YOU FELT LIKE AS
LONG AS IT LEFT THE PROGRAM AS NEEDED.  I really /HATE/, yes, /HATE/ people
like you who don't *READ* what is written and instead mouth-off and place
words in other people's mouths!

Here they are again since it is clear you lack the mental capacities to
READ and therefore the capacities to go back to a message and actually find
what I wrote!!!

"Therefore it is clear that TB! is able to represent the data in a manner,
internally, which does defy the limitations of the transmit medium and, upon
sending, can translate down to that medium."

READ THIS:  "...and, upon sending, can translate down to that medium."

In short you pontificating, arrogant poo, I never once said the medium was
RTF, DOC, XLS, etc, etc, etc.  It could be TEX, HTML, SGML, XML (all ASCII as
far as I know) since the program would be taking the internal representation
of that data and translating it INTO THAT MEDIUM.

Is that clear enough for you or will I have to go find a special ed
teacher to work with you on that /very/ easy to understand statement?

> Did you read what I had written? Was my English unclear? I said that this is
> a matter of the quantities of programming work needed to implement it this
> or that way.

I did read what you wrote.  You clearly didn't read what I wrote, did you?
I never said a hex code.  I never said it couldn't be ASCII.  I just said that
how TB! represents such a construct internally and displays it has no bearing
on what it sends out externally.  Personally I was thinking that double-CRs
would be a hard CR while a single is not.  You displayed how it could be with
a space at the beginning of a line which completely ignores the problems with
that but I digress into a realm you clearly cannot being to think about
without putting on a bib!

> Then algorithms are necessary that convert one form to another and vice
> versa. The implementation of the "soft-hard" way of editing from the ground 
> up. In short, you want the editor to be rewritten...

In case you didn't notice, poobrain, is that what you were describing
already did that in the same manner.  You also failed to see that the editor
clearly does not represent the data in perfect ASCII
 since
  things
like
this
are
possible.
 If
   they
   were
   working
  with
  pure
  ASCII  you   then would
   as   suggestI have
 to
   type
   each
space.  Clearly I am not.  Again, you missed the entire point that how the
data is represented internally has no bearing on the limitations of the medium
upon output.  Because of this how the /HELL/ do you know that it would be a
complete rewrite from the ground up?  Do you know what type of editor they are
using, HMM?  Have you seen 

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 2 May 00, at 14:48, Steve Lamb wrote
about "Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?":

> Mistake #1.  You're thinking that there are only lines.  I see only data
> which can be represented any number of ways.  Let's just say that just
> because the limitation exists when transmitting means that the limitation
> exists when creating.  If that were the case, we would not have free caret
> mode since until I moved my cursor down and typed this word the spaces
> preceding this didn't exist.  Therefore it is clear that TB! is able to
> represent the data in a manner, internally, which does defy the limitations
> of the transmit medium and, upon sending, can translate down to that >
> medium. 

Mistake #1 on your side: you think plain ASCII is a limitation of some 
(unknown to me) sort, whereas _I_ think ASCII is a _power_, a well-thought 
standard that those guys who invented "soft returns" and things alike (read: 
M$ with its Word and heaps of others) just plain spoiled. Well, it follows that 
_your_ choice is Word's way of doing things, despite your dislike towards M$. 
That's your choice, but let me think differently. There's _nothing_ in word-
processing world that cannot be done (and done _better_) with just plain 
ASCII. Wanna examples? TeX for typesetting, HTML for web publishing. _No_ 
need in RTF, DOC, XLS, etc., etc., etc., etc...  

I'd prefer the editor NOT to use those soft returns at all. I do not use soft 
returns in my work. I do not use Word and wordprocessors alike. And I'm still 
alive, and my health is perfect;-)

> In short, there is not a Mmmmkaying thing stopping TB from having soft and
> hard breaks when editing which is the /only/ time our formatting comes into
> play.

Did you read what I had written? Was my English unclear? I said that this is a 
matter of the quantities of programming work needed to implement it this or 
that way.

> > But _if_ we consider the autoformat feature, we immediately need to
> > consider, how exactly should TB's editor decide, which block of text _is_ a
> > paragraph and which isn't.
> 
> Simple.  The block which is a paragraph is the one defined with a hard CR
> and the one that is not is defined with a soft CR.  How TB! defines those is
> up to the internal logic which is, as I demonstrated, not limited to the logic
> of the transmit medium.

Then algorithms are necessary that convert one form to another and vice 
versa. The implementation of the "soft-hard" way of editing from the ground 
up. In short, you want the editor to be rewritten...


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If it moves, salute it; if it doesn't move, pick it up;
  if you can't pick it up, paint it.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Steve Lamb]

Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 2:25:04 PM, Alexander wrote:
> Allie, no personal offence, please! I didn't mean to insult you, just wanted
> to stress the idea that if we stay on the grounds of _plain_text_ medium, we
> need to take into account that there is _no_ paragraph concept applicable to
> this medium. The document consists of _lines_, not paragraphs.

Mistake #1.  You're thinking that there are only lines.  I see only data
which can be represented any number of ways.  Let's just say that just because
the limitation exists when transmitting means that the limitation exists when
creating.  If that were the case, we would not have free caret mode since
until I moved my cursor down and typed
   this word the spaces preceding this
didn't exist.  Therefore it is clear that TB! is able to represent the data in
a manner, internally, which does defy the limitations of the transmit medium
and, upon sending, can translate down to that medium.

In short, there is not a Mmmmkaying thing stopping TB from having soft and
hard breaks when editing which is the /only/ time our formatting comes into
play.

> I basically do not understand the common gripes about the autowrap vs.
> autoformat issues which from time to time get posted to this list.

Aside from the fact that it is extremely basic, crude, ill thought out and
done better in abundance in editors freely available to all?  sure, nothing at
all.

> I don't think it's too hard to hit Alt-J or whatever from time to time.

Except that it removes the ".  " construct as well as the paragraph
indention which some people, don't know who, use and have used since before
TB! was even a inch on the programmer's brain.  Trust me, Delphi didn't even
exist and these conventions were in use.  Other editors are able to work with
them.

> But _if_ we consider the autoformat feature, we immediately need to
> consider, how exactly should TB's editor decide, which block of text _is_ a
> paragraph and which isn't.

Simple.  The block which is a paragraph is the one defined with a hard CR
and the one that is not is defined with a soft CR.  How TB! defines those is
up to the internal logic which is, as I demonstrated, not limited to the logic
of the transmit medium.

> Now look further. _If_ I now place my cursor this way:

Too bad that the internal logic of TB! does not conform to that.


some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some
text some text some text some text some text some text some text some text
some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some
text



   some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some
   text some text some text some text some text some text some text some text
   some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some
  text



some  text  some  text  some text some text some text some text some text some
text  some  text  some  text some text some text some text some text some text
some  text  some  text  some text some text some text some text some text some
text


Indention is ignored in all cases.  Furthermore the auto-justify algorithm
sucks rocks.  I saw better in VDE, a dos editor that I used, oh 12-13
years ago?

some  text  some text some text some text some text some text some  text  some
text  some  text some text some text some text some text some text  some  text
some  text  some text some text some text some text some text some  text  some
text

That is how VDE would do it which is much better than plopping all of the
spaces near the front of the lines.  An even better one would create spaces
equidistant throughout the paragraph.

some text some  text some text some text  some text some text  some text some
text some text  some text some text some  text some text some  text some text
some text some  text some text some text  some text some text  some text some
text


I, however, digress.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 2 May 00, at 14:57, Allie Martin wrote
about "Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?":

> > Allie, will you please understand that within plain/text medium there is
> > no way for the program to distinguish between _your_ hard returns and
> > the hard  returns inserted by the line-wrapping algorithm?
> 
> Pardon my slowness for making that erroneous suggestion. :-/
> 
> The real reason for my response here is that you didn't really mention
> whether or not my proposed problems with your solution to the
> auto-formatting issues are equally as erroneous and lacking in
> understanding, or are they in fact valid?

Allie, no personal offence, please! I didn't mean to insult you, just wanted to 
stress the idea that if we stay on the grounds of _plain_text_ medium, we need 
to take into account that there is _no_ paragraph concept applicable to this 
medium. The document consists of _lines_, not paragraphs. 

There exist a number of ideas as to how resolve this problem. If anybody 
cares to read about it, and (more interesting) to read about it from the 
viewpoint of software developer, I'm again suggesting that you read the 
Wrapping section of the online help for WinEdt 5.1 (www.winedt.com).

I basically do not understand the common gripes about the autowrap vs. 
autoformat issues which from time to time get posted to this list. I don't think 
it's too hard to hit Alt-J or whatever from time to time. But _if_ we consider the 
autoformat feature, we immediately need to consider, how exactly should TB's 
editor decide, which block of text _is_ a paragraph and which isn't.

In my previous message I suggested that the indented line should be 
considered as the paragraph _boundary_, note further that I suggested this 
only as a quick fix to what we have right now (see also below). This would 
mean the following: if I have the text formatted this way:

  some text

then start typing immediately after the word "text" above, the "autoformat" _is_ 
active all right (again, download and install WinEdt to understand what I mean: 
this program can be configured to behave exactly this way!). This means that 
eventually I get:

  some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
text some text some text some text some text some text some text some text 
some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
text

Now look further. _If_ I now place my cursor this way:


  some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
text some text

and start typing, the new input _is_not_ considered as the part of the "some 
text" paragraph, since indented line is considered as a paragraph break. This 
means that the text I type in is considered a _separate_ paragraph and 
autowrapped as such.

If OTOH I place my cursor as shown below:

  some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
text some text some text some text some text some text some text some text 
some text
  

the new input _again_ is NOT wrapped "into" the "some text" paragraph, since 
the next line after is again indented.

Finally, as the only different possibility, I place the cursor as shown below:

  some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
text some text some text some text some text some text some text some text 
some text


_then_ the new input is still considered the part of the "some text" paragraph 
and wrapped into it, as in:

  some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
text some text some text some text some text some text some text some text 
some text 

What part of it you don't like?;-) Again, note that the list of characters that 
mark the "paragraph break" when located at the beginning of the line may be 
made configurable (again, as in WinEdt), which would extend the functionality 
even further. Note also, that given the current implementation of autowrap it 
should be quite simple (and require minor extra coding) to re-implement it the 
way I proposed above.

Finally, I have to admit that if we "lift" the plain-text condition, the whole 
problem could be considered from absolutely different viewpoint. For example, 
the programmers can choose whatever hex string they like to act as a 
"linebreak" and to leave "hard" linebreak for the user. This is the way Word 
works, for example. Note two things: 
1. This would require major changes in the source code of the program and is 
therefore not the good thing to implement given the fact that version 2 is said 
to be rolled out by the end of May;
2. Having worked alot with WinEdt (see above), I myself do find the way to 
determine the paragraph breaks even _better_ then the way Word and the 
other word processors exploits; at least this pure-ASCII way of doing things is 
_much_ more flexible and configurable from the user's viewpoint. Yes, it 
requires some time to understand how it works, but then it works as smoothly 
as

Re[2]: TB! WishList

[SyP]

Hello The Bat! users,

Jast wrote at 5/2/2000, 3:14 PM

>>  Not really.  Just have each account set to check mail every few
>>  minutes.  If you have a permanent connection that works like a charm.
>>  If you don't have a permanent connection, it still works pretty well,
>>  except that TB doesn't have an offline mode.  That is a little
>>  annoying at times.

J>  How is it annoying? I have one account set to check mail every minute.
J>  When I'm online it does just that. When I'm off, I am not bothered.

J>  Possibly you're missing the option "No automatical dial for periodicaly
J>  checking" in Options/Network&Administration?

But if you use more than one connection regularly, you must select
"Local Area Network or manual connection". And then TB! checks your
mail regardless of being online or not.

-- 
Cheers, SyP

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not 
want to hear. (George Orwell)



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Allie Martin]

On Tue, 2 May 2000 16:32:46 +0400, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote:

> Allie, will you please understand that within plain/text medium there is
> no way for the program to distinguish between _your_ hard returns and
> the hard  returns inserted by the line-wrapping algorithm?

Pardon my slowness for making that erroneous suggestion. :-/

The real reason for my response here is that you didn't really mention
whether or not my proposed problems with your solution to the
auto-formatting issues are equally as erroneous and lacking in
understanding, or are they in fact valid?

-- 
© 2000 Allie Martin   /*\   Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro
---
Urghm! - "Have an adequate day. "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Jast]

Morning Januk,

>  Not really.  Just have each account set to check mail every few
>  minutes.  If you have a permanent connection that works like a charm.
>  If you don't have a permanent connection, it still works pretty well,
>  except that TB doesn't have an offline mode.  That is a little
>  annoying at times.

 How is it annoying? I have one account set to check mail every minute.
 When I'm online it does just that. When I'm off, I am not bothered.

 Possibly you're missing the option "No automatical dial for periodicaly
 checking" in Options/Network&Administration?

-- 
.. Jast ... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  using TB 1.42 Beta/20 
:  with AMD K6-2, 64MB RAM
:. on Windows 98 4.10  A 

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org


You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 19:40, Allie Martin wrote
about "Re: auto-format is too robotic isn'":


> My suggestion would be, never to cancel hard returns. This should solve
> everything.

Allie, will you please understand that within plain/text medium there is no way 
for the program to distinguish between _your_ hard returns and the hard 
returns inserted by the line-wrapping algorithm?

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlamp of an
  oncoming train.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org


You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Allie Martin]

On Tue, 2 May 2000 14:26:39 +0200, Ralf Buschmann wrote:


AM>> The quick brown fox, before making a great howling noise, jumps over
AM>> the lazy dog.



I just applied Alt+L to the line and see above.

Alt+L removes the initial indentation of paragraphs. The auto-format
doesn't.

> No it won't :-). That is, if you have just the above paragraph.
> ALT-L/R/J keeps indentation in paragraphs.

Not on my system.

Only auto-format keeps them. Alt+L get's rid of them. If you're speaking
of a completely indented paragraph where *all* lines are indented, then
*only* then will it not remove the indents.

-- 
© 2000 Allie Martin   /*\   Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro
---
Urghm! - "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers.  "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org


You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Steve Lamb]

Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 11:25:13 AM, Allie wrote:
> Oh, so there are other reasons. :-)

Major reasons.  How would you like a thread to be broken up into 5 parts
and you completely lose your place because of it?  :/

The backend works, the interface is beyond the normal TB! quirkiness into
seriously subpar.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Wish List II (was Re: Automatic send)

[Alberto Almagioni]

On Wed, 3 May 2000 01:36:25 +0800GMT (02/05/2000,
19.36 +0100GMT),
Thomas Fernandez wrote:



AM>> I don't know about the others, but I don't understand what it is you are
AM>> asking. :-( Would you expand?


> He wants TB! to send him him notification of each email he receives. I
> guess he did this by adding Action/Forward to/his cell phone number,
> with a forward template including only the desired headers, to his
> filters. :-)

Thank you and sorry again: I didn't understand what you didn't
understand.

I see an option in the "sorting office/filters" about the screen saver
status: is this working also on screen-energy-save-option? I don't use
screensaver but if this works (or could work) also with "energy save"
when the monitor is off by energy save my filter will work otherwise
not.
Is bthis possible?



 Ciao
 Al
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://i.am/atoms
 pgp public key: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Louvre/8338/key.html 
 Fingerprint: 23A0 44F1 8D3B 5C78 0054  4E25 8D0A D73E 4664 8E0F
___
A bird in the hand is much better than one overhead...



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Allie Martin]

On Tue, 2 May 2000 11:09:12 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:

>> Anyway, TB! does it here. Each beta has at the bottom  "And some
>> minor cosmetic fixes". I see from your message headers,  that you're
>> using beta18. Could this be the reason why you think that I may be
>> smoking? :-) I suggest that you check. Who knows you may suddenly love
>> TB!'s threading because of this discovery. :-)

> No because it doesn't do subject threading when deleting single
> messages, either, unless expressly told.

Oh, so there are other reasons. :-)

Admittedly I don't delete many TBUDL messages so I have no problem at all
with threading by only references at present.

-- 
© 2000 Allie Martin   /*\   Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro
---
Urghm! - "Only those who do nothing make no mistakes. "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Steve Lamb]

Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 10:58:42 AM, Allie wrote:
> Anyway, TB! does it here. Each beta has at the bottom  "And some minor
> cosmetic fixes". I see from your message headers,  that you're using
> beta18. Could this be the reason why you think that I may be smoking? :-)
> I suggest that you check. Who knows you may suddenly love TB!'s threading
> because of this discovery. :-)

No because it doesn't do subject threading when deleting single messages,
either, unless expressly told.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Wish List (was Re: Automatic send)

[Alberto Almagioni]

On Wed, 3 May 2000 02:00:08 +0800GMT (02/05/2000,
20.00 +0100GMT),
Thomas Fernandez wrote:

AA>> In few words I have a filter on principals accounts that redirect the
AA>> messages on my GSM phone through SMS, but I'd like that this filter
AA>> works only when TheBat! check these accounts automaically and doesn't
AA>> work when I check manually. Is this possible?

> I think you have to disable the filter when you check manually. In the
> filter rules, UNcheck "Rule is: Active". Check it again (enable it)
> when you have TB check your mail automatically.

So If this is true may the feature "Rule is Active only on automatic
check" be putted in the wish list



 Ciao
 Al
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://i.am/atoms
 pgp public key: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Louvre/8338/key.html 
 Fingerprint: 23A0 44F1 8D3B 5C78 0054  4E25 8D0A D73E 4664 8E0F
___
A $300.00 picture tube will protect a 10 cent fuse by blowing first.
**Internet Email Confidentiality Footer**
Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message.If
You are not the addressee indicated in this message(or responsible for
delivery of the message to such person), You may not copy or deliver this
message to anyone. In such case, You should destroy this message, and
notify our office immediately.  If You or Your employer does not consent to
Internet email messages of this kind, please advise our office immediately.
Opinions, conclusions  and  other  information expressed in this message are not
given/endorsed by our firm or employer unless otherwise indicated
by an authorized representative independent of this message, and anyway
to be treated with strict confidentiality.
*

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: Automatic send

[Allie Martin]

On Wed, 3 May 2000 01:36:25 +0800, Thomas Fernandez wrote:

AM>> I don't know about the others, but I don't understand what it is you
AM>> are asking. :-( Would you expand?

> GSM = Global System for Mobile Communication = digital mobile
> (cellular) phone system most popular everywhere in the world, except
> N.America. I think in some big cities like L.A., NY etc they have
> introduced it now, but while it is usually on the 900 and 1800 MHz
> bands, it will work on the 1900 MHz band in USA/Canada. You need a
> tri-band phone, or your service provider will lend you a free 1900
> MHz phone if you go to N.America.

> SMS = Short Message System. You can send messages, via email or from
> phone to phone, to GSM telephones. Very popular, as people can be
> reached by email even if they are not on the internet, and a lot
> cheaper than phone calls and thus used by students a lot.

> He wants TB! to send him him notification of each email he receives. I
> guess he did this by adding Action/Forward to/his cell phone number,
> with a forward template including only the desired headers, to his
> filters. :-)

Ah, I see. This technology hasn't taken off as much in my country to the
point where those abbreviations are second nature. Thanks for the
clarification. :-)


-- 
© 2000 Allie Martin   /*\   Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro
---
Urghm! - "Reformat Hard Drive! Are you SURE (Y/Y)? "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: Automatic send

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Alberto,

On Tue, 2 May 2000 19:48:53 +0200 GMT (03.05.2000, 01:48 +0800 GMT),
Alberto Almagioni wrote:

AA> In few words I have a filter on principals accounts that redirect the
AA> messages on my GSM phone through SMS, but I'd like that this filter
AA> works only when TheBat! check these accounts automaically and doesn't
AA> work when I check manually. Is this possible?

I think you have to disable the filter when you check manually. In the
filter rules, UNcheck "Rule is: Active". Check it again (enable it)
when you have TB check your mail automatically.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Allie Martin]

On Tue, 2 May 2000 10:34:00 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:

> Yes because Shift-CNTL-Del doesn't delete a single message.  You're
> missing the point.  When I read in Mutt in threaded display to delete
> both single messages and threads I use one key.  CNTL-D.  That's it.  I
> don't have to decide "Oh, this is a single message, press D."  It is
> more "Nope, CNTL-D, nope, CNTL-D, nope, CNTL-D, nope, CNTL-D."  Were
> those single messages or threads?  Does it matter?  Let me put it this
> way:

I just tried it Steve. I am using beta 20. In thread view
 deletes single messages with no other messages
attached. I'm not smoking anything. I'm not hallucinating. :-) I'm using
TB! version 1.42b20 in Win2K.

> What is a single message but a thread with a single entry in it?

:-) If you insist. :-

>   Why does TB! /NOT/ operate on threads with only single messages in it.

It does. At least in the version I'm using; and I say this as a
non-smoker. A Non-drinker as well. Sober as one can be. 

> You missed the point.

I don't think so. If I hit  in a thread with multiple
messages then all messages are gone. If I wish to delete a single message
in a multiple message thread then I hit . This is necessary because
TB! cannot read my mind and know whether or not I wish to delete all
messages or just a single message.

On my machine and with my installation fo TB!. If I have a lone message in
threaded view both  and  will delete the message.
Is this not what you are referring to?

>   The point is the quick efficient deletion of unwanted email.  In TB! I
> have to switch between the two shortcuts to do effectively the same
> thing.  You're also incorrect that it takes two messages to form a
> thread.  I am replying to your message.  It was in reply to mine.
> However, I have already deleted mine.  It, however, is still a part of a
> thread.  It has references and in-reply-to.  Just because I don't have
> the other components doesn't mean TB! shout /not/ delete that message.

Whatever Steve. I'll not get into the semantics of that part. :-)

> Looking at it another way, what harm is there, exactly, in having "delete
> thread" delete a single message?  Clearly the user wanted it deleted.  Clearly
> there is no harm done since it would be deleted either way.

I see no harm in it. I however, fail to see it as a *singular* reason to
not using TB!'s threading as you implied. :-)

>> !But hold on a minute! I noted that the keyboard shortcut you stated
>> for deleting an entire thread is . AFAIK, that's incorrect.
>> With the correct shortcut , you *can* delete single
>> message *threads* 'intuitively! I just tried it.

> It is incorrect.  Hardly surprising considering my admittance that I don't
> use it.  I just tried it again and it doesn't work still.  I don't know what
> crack you're smoking but it must be good stuff for you to hallucinate like
> that.  Make sure to bring some if you ever visit the states.  Mind the dogs at
> the gate, though.

ROTFLMAO!!!  Ah, I suspect that you know us for the good stuff.

Anyway, TB! does it here. Each beta has at the bottom  "And some minor
cosmetic fixes". I see from your message headers,  that you're using
beta18. Could this be the reason why you think that I may be smoking? :-)
I suggest that you check. Who knows you may suddenly love TB!'s threading
because of this discovery. :-)

-- 
© 2000 Allie Martin   /*\   Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro
---
Urghm! - "...I'm sorry, Reality is not in service at this time. "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: Automatic send

[Alberto Almagioni]

On Tue, 2 May 2000 19:29:50 +0200GMT (02/05/2000,
19.29 +0100GMT),
Roel wrote:


> Hi Allie

> On Tue, 2 May 2000 12:21:13 -0500GMT
>(which was 2/05/00, 19:21 +0100GMT for me),

> you wrote:

AM>> I don't know about the others, but I don't understand what it is
AM>> you are asking. :-( Would you expand?

> he's talking about the auto-reply-function...
>   (filters - actions - send auto-reply)


Not exactly... I was talking about redirect-the-message-to-function
(ibidem)
Sorry for my orrible english ...
As i wrote in my second message I find out the solution just a click
after: now I' d like to know if there's away to set filter working
only if TheBat! check accounts automatically.
In few words I have a filter on principals accounts that redirect the
messages on my GSM phone through SMS, but I'd like that this filter
works only when TheBat! check these accounts automaically and doesn't
work when I check manually. Is this possible?


 Ciao
 Al
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://i.am/atoms
 pgp public key: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Louvre/8338/key.html 
 Fingerprint: 23A0 44F1 8D3B 5C78 0054  4E25 8D0A D73E 4664 8E0F
___
A Puritan is one who is afraid that someone somewhere is having fun
**Internet Email Confidentiality Footer**
Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message.If
You are not the addressee indicated in this message(or responsible for
delivery of the message to such person), You may not copy or deliver this
message to anyone. In such case, You should destroy this message, and
notify our office immediately.  If You or Your employer does not consent to
Internet email messages of this kind, please advise our office immediately.
Opinions, conclusions  and  other  information expressed in this message are not
given/endorsed by our firm or employer unless otherwise indicated
by an authorized representative independent of this message, and anyway
to be treated with strict confidentiality.
*

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: Automatic send

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Allie,

On Tue, 2 May 2000 12:21:13 -0500 GMT (03.05.2000, 01:21 +0800 GMT),
Allie Martin wrote:

>>   I'm trying to make a filter that send to my gsm via sms the principals
>>   headers of filtered e-mail: i need to know if it's possible to set
>>   the filter to automatically send the mail.
>>   Thank you.

AM> I don't know about the others, but I don't understand what it is you are
AM> asking. :-( Would you expand?

GSM = Global System for Mobile Communication = digital mobile
(cellular) phone system most popular everywhere in the world, except
N.America. I think in some big cities like L.A., NY etc they have
introduced it now, but while it is usually on the 900 and 1800 MHz
bands, it will work on the 1900 MHz band in USA/Canada. You need a
tri-band phone, or your service provider will lend you a free 1900
MHz phone if you go to N.America.

SMS = Short Message System. You can send messages, via email or from
phone to phone, to GSM telephones. Very popular, as people can be
reached by email even if they are not on the internet, and a lot
cheaper than phone calls and thus used by students a lot.

He wants TB! to send him him notification of each email he receives. I
guess he did this by adding Action/Forward to/his cell phone number,
with a forward template including only the desired headers, to his
filters. :-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Steve Lamb]

Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 10:18:20 AM, Allie wrote:
> TB!'s threading is useless to you for that single reason?! Especially
> since  deletes the message?

>  delete message

>  Delete whole thread.

Yes because Shift-CNTL-Del doesn't delete a single message.  You're
missing the point.  When I read in Mutt in threaded display to delete both
single messages and threads I use one key.  CNTL-D.  That's it.  I don't have
to decide "Oh, this is a single message, press D."  It is more "Nope, CNTL-D,
nope, CNTL-D, nope, CNTL-D, nope, CNTL-D."  Were those single messages or
threads?  Does it matter?  Let me put it this way:

What is a single message but a thread with a single entry in it?  Why does
TB! /NOT/ operate on threads with only single messages in it.

> it's a thread (which I think is technically incorrect since it takes two
> or more messages to form a thread) and want to  delete the
> entire, complete, *thread* with . I therefore beg to
> differ on that proposed piece of intuition. :-)

You missed the point.  The point is the quick efficient deletion of
unwanted email.  In TB! I have to switch between the two shortcuts to do
effectively the same thing.  You're also incorrect that it takes two messages
to form a thread.  I am replying to your message.  It was in reply to mine.
However, I have already deleted mine.  It, however, is still a part of a
thread.  It has references and in-reply-to.  Just because I don't have the
other components doesn't mean TB! shout /not/ delete that message.

Looking at it another way, what harm is there, exactly, in having "delete
thread" delete a single message?  Clearly the user wanted it deleted.  Clearly
there is no harm done since it would be deleted either way.

You focused on the fact that DEL doesn't delete threads.  I was stating
that delete threads doesn't delete single messages which are, like it or not,
threads.

> !But hold on a minute! I noted that the keyboard shortcut you stated for
> deleting an entire thread is . AFAIK, that's incorrect. With
> the correct shortcut , you *can* delete single message
> *threads* 'intuitively! I just tried it.

It is incorrect.  Hardly surprising considering my admittance that I don't
use it.  I just tried it again and it doesn't work still.  I don't know what
crack you're smoking but it must be good stuff for you to hallucinate like
that.  Make sure to bring some if you ever visit the states.  Mind the dogs at
the gate, though.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: Automatic send

[Roel]

Hi Allie

On Tue, 2 May 2000 12:21:13 -0500GMT
   (which was 2/05/00, 19:21 +0100GMT for me),

you wrote:

AM> I don't know about the others, but I don't understand what it is
AM> you are asking. :-( Would you expand?

he's talking about the auto-reply-function...
  (filters - actions - send auto-reply)

-- 
 Der Immer Jodelende Schweizer In Lederhosen
 Roel   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 * Speelplein Aboe http://www.aboe.zzn.com *

 Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: Automatic send

[Allie Martin]

On Tue, 2 May 2000 12:29:23 +0200, Alberto Almagioni wrote:

>   I'm trying to make a filter that send to my gsm via sms the principals
>   headers of filtered e-mail: i need to know if it's possible to set
>   the filter to automatically send the mail.
>   Thank you.

I don't know about the others, but I don't understand what it is you are
asking. :-( Would you expand?

-- 
© 2000 Allie Martin   /*\   Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro
---
Urghm! - "WORK: Something to do between breaks. "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Allie Martin]

On Tue, 2 May 2000 09:57:29 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:


> Problem is that TB! doesn't intuitively delete threads, either.  Let
> me give you an example.  Select a message that has no other messages on
> it, press CNTL-DEL.  Nothing happens because it isn't a thread.

> No, fire up mutt and, select the same message (forgiving the fact
> they don't use the same database, yaddayaddayadda), hit CNTL-D and watch
> it delete the single message even though CNTL-D in mutt is "Delete
> thread".

> Until that is fixed, threading is pretty much useless to me.

TB!'s threading is useless to you for that single reason?! Especially
since  deletes the message?

 delete message

 Delete whole thread.

If the novice wishes to delete a single message with knowledge of those
two keyboard shortcuts, which would the novice intuitively choose? It's
one message so I personally will happily use the easier shortcut which is
the single key . Furthermore, if I use the  key to delete single
messages in a thread, why would I look at a single message, decide that
it's a thread (which I think is technically incorrect since it takes two
or more messages to form a thread) and want to  delete the
entire, complete, *thread* with . I therefore beg to
differ on that proposed piece of intuition. :-)

!But hold on a minute! I noted that the keyboard shortcut you stated for
deleting an entire thread is . AFAIK, that's incorrect. With
the correct shortcut , you *can* delete single message
*threads* 'intuitively! I just tried it.

-- 
© 2000 Allie Martin   /*\   Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro
---
Urghm! - "Apple (c) 6024 b.c., Adam & Eve "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Steve Lamb]

Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 9:06:47 AM, Alexander wrote:
> Nah, I don't think TB's threading is so bad. It could be made much better
> when the _usability_ is concerned, but technically it's implemented very
> well

Agreed.  See previous message.

>> *whistles innocently in the background.*

> Really? then how will you explain that you've just written 2 messages here 
> within 3 minutes or so?;-))

Come now, Alex, you know that is light for me for my morning run through
the list.  :P

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Steve Lamb]

Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 9:18:51 AM, Allie wrote:
> Deleting messages therefore no longer collapse threads as easily and also
> deleting a message doesn't no longer collapsed the thread.

Problem is that TB! doesn't intuitively delete threads, either.  Let me
give you an example.  Select a message that has no other messages on it, press
CNTL-DEL.  Nothing happens because it isn't a thread.

No, fire up mutt and, select the same message (forgiving the fact they
don't use the same database, yaddayaddayadda), hit CNTL-D and watch it delete
the single message even though CNTL-D in mutt is "Delete thread".

Until that is fixed, threading is pretty much useless to me.

>> *whistles innocently in the background.*

> :-) Yes, we've got history.

Hey, I refrained.  That alone is cause for celebration.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Allie Martin]

On Tue, 2 May 2000 11:18:51 -0500, Allie Martin wrote:

beta paragraph quoted:

> I can far more easily follow threads in this way. I can easily recheck the
> comments I made to properly reply to your post here. There are a number of
> reasons why I've returned to threading after a long absence. First is that
> the threads are far less fragile and more cohesive because more message
> id's are kept in the reference headers. Deleting messages therefore no
> longer collapse threads as easily and also deleting a message doesn't no
> longer collapsed the thread. Threading by references and sorting by
> received time, in descending order and the CTRL+] shortcut makes a nice
> way of reading TBUDL. I just need the back browse button or shortcut.

Full version without grammatical bugs:-(

I can far more easily follow threads in this way. I can easily recheck the
comments I made in my previous message to properly reply to your post.
There are a number of reasons why I've returned to threading after a long
absence. Firstly, the threads are far less fragile and are more cohesive
because more related message id's are kept in the reference headers. As a
direct result of this, deleting messages no longer collapse threads as
easily. Another nice improvement is that deleting a message no longer
automatically collapses the thread.

Threading by references in addition to sorting by received time, in
descending order makes a nice way of reading threads. I just need that
back browse button or shortcut.


-- 
© 2000 Allie Martin   /*\   Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro
---
Urghm! - "Floggings will continue until morale improves. "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 2 May 00, at 7:51, Steve Lamb wrote
about "Re: TB! WishList":

> There was also this great guy called Bill Gates who put everything that
> people wanted into a large, monolithic application.  It is now unwieldy,
> bloated, difficult to use and understand.

That's true. 

> The whole reason I pointed out that there were other applications that
> could poll multiple POP accounts into a single account is to stress that not
> every package should implement every neat feature or combine everything into
> one.  *I* use TB! because it doesn't combine everything into one single
> account.  In fact it is one of only /two/ mailers that I know of (of over 30+
> I've personally used in the past decade or so) which doesn't do that.  I find
> that to be a very powerful feature and would prefer not to have the bloat of
> the "alternative" programmed in when there are several other decent mailers
> available that do just that very think.  I believe it is Alex who uses Pegasus
> mail and could best explain how nice that package is despite my personal
> distaste for it based on interface and underlying logic.

I never said Pegasus is so nice and all that, otherwise I would have never 
subscribed to TBUDL;-) OTOH, Pegasus _does_ support some useful features 
that TB doesn't yet, this is the point I've made here on numerous occasions. 
Besides, Pegasus does support separate accounts, so leave it alone, please.

As for the polling the traffic from more then one account into one TB's 
account, this has been discussed more then once here and despite Steve's 
dislike towards this idea I believe the majority has come to a conclusion that 
under _certain_ circumstances this might come in handy.

Finally, another idea finally emerged, and AFAIK RIT labs are going to 
implement it for ver. 2. That's the idea of user-defined "virtual" folders that are 
to contain "links" to messages stored physically in their respective 
accounts/folders. Much like what happens currently if you double-click a 
message in the Mail Ticker. Another example is the TEMP panel of DOS 
Navigator or FAR manager, if you know what I'm talking about.

If implemented this way, there will be no need to physically poll the messages 
from, say, Account2 into the folder system of Account1 as some e-mail clients 
work nowadays, since it will be possible to mimick this functionality in an 
intuitive way exploiting the virtual folders.


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  The trouble with most jobs is the resemblance to being in a
  sled dog team: No one gets a change of scenery, except the
  lead dog.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 2 May 00, at 7:48, Steve Lamb wrote
about "Re: TB! WishList":

> > Have you thought of using the 'total' and 'total unread' columns in the
> > message list? It can easily tell you how many messages are in each thread
> > and how many messages in each thread are unread. You can therefore get the
> > exact information that you need instead of an estimate.
> 
> You're assuming he's in threaded mode.  I'm guessing as a PMMail user he
> is not.  As a mutt user myself I find TB!'s threaded mode annoying at best so,
> as an ex-PMMail user I'm most certainly not in that mode.  :)

Nah, I don't think TB's threading is so bad. It could be made much better when 
the _usability_ is concerned, but technically it's implemented very well (of 
course I only refer to 1.42 betas, since it's been almost corrupted in 1.41 and 
earlier due to the limitations of the message base format used). But as a 
Pegasus user (see other Steve's message;-)) I'm much accustomed to having 
advanced functionality without nice and intuitive GUI over it, so I myself do 
consider TB's threading a good thing (having in mind that Pegasus does not 
and never will support threading;-))

> > wanting the program to be honed to do exactly what one wants, especially
> > when all users needs and tastes are pretty different.
> 
> *whistles innocently in the background.*

Really? then how will you explain that you've just written 2 messages here 
within 3 minutes or so?;-))

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Allie Martin]

On Tue, 2 May 2000 07:48:05 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:

>> Have you thought of using the 'total' and 'total unread' columns in the
>> message list? It can easily tell you how many messages are in each
>> thread and how many messages in each thread are unread. You can
>> therefore get the exact information that you need instead of an
>> estimate.

> You're assuming he's in threaded mode.  I'm guessing as a PMMail
> user he is not.  As a mutt user myself I find TB!'s threaded mode
> annoying at best so, as an ex-PMMail user I'm most certainly not in that
> mode.  :)

He spoke of threads in his paragraphs hence my tentative assumption. :-)

I've just recently started using the thread mode for TBUDL and TBBETA.
These are fairly busy lists. Quite often I see many replies to the same
question, with all replies being almost identical. To avoid being a part
of this redundant posting, I normally read all messages I've downloaded
before replying to any. Threading avoids this hassle. If the message I'm
reading has no answer, this is very evident in threaded mode and I can
safely answer, even if it's the first message of 50 that I have read. :-)
Normally I'd have to scan further down to check if there's a response.
When the threads become complicated merely looking at subjects and the To
and From info is not enough. You have to actually read the messages to be
sure.

I can far more easily follow threads in this way. I can easily recheck the
comments I made to properly reply to your post here. There are a number of
reasons why I've returned to threading after a long absence. First is that
the threads are far less fragile and more cohesive because more message
id's are kept in the reference headers. Deleting messages therefore no
longer collapse threads as easily and also deleting a message doesn't no
longer collapsed the thread. Threading by references and sorting by
received time, in descending order and the CTRL+] shortcut makes a nice
way of reading TBUDL. I just need the back browse button or shortcut.

>> wanting the program to be honed to do exactly what one wants, especially
>> when all users needs and tastes are pretty different.

> *whistles innocently in the background.*

:-) Yes, we've got history.

-- 
© 2000 Allie Martin   /*\   Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro
---
Urghm! - "We give nothing as willingly as our advice. "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Steve Lamb]

Monday, May 01, 2000, 7:07:10 PM, Allie wrote:
> Have you thought of using the 'total' and 'total unread' columns in the
> message list? It can easily tell you how many messages are in each thread
> and how many messages in each thread are unread. You can therefore get the
> exact information that you need instead of an estimate.

You're assuming he's in threaded mode.  I'm guessing as a PMMail user he
is not.  As a mutt user myself I find TB!'s threaded mode annoying at best so,
as an ex-PMMail user I'm most certainly not in that mode.  :)

> wanting the program to be honed to do exactly what one wants, especially
> when all users needs and tastes are pretty different.

*whistles innocently in the background.*

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Steve Lamb]

Monday, May 01, 2000, 10:57:53 PM, Eberhard wrote:
> Thanks for your kindness. I guess I will stick to TB! despite of what
> you say. Thank God you don't seem to be the programmer. We had a great
> mailer at its time on Amiga - it was called Voodoo. On the respective
> mailing list the author was infamous for replies resembling yours. The
> mailer went dead a short while after YAM appeared. YAM's
> author, name of Marcel Beck, Swiss guy, listened to his users.
> Apparently made a difference.

There was also this great guy called Bill Gates who put everything that
people wanted into a large, monolithic application.  It is now unwieldy,
bloated, difficult to use and understand.

The whole reason I pointed out that there were other applications that
could poll multiple POP accounts into a single account is to stress that not
every package should implement every neat feature or combine everything into
one.  *I* use TB! because it doesn't combine everything into one single
account.  In fact it is one of only /two/ mailers that I know of (of over 30+
I've personally used in the past decade or so) which doesn't do that.  I find
that to be a very powerful feature and would prefer not to have the bloat of
the "alternative" programmed in when there are several other decent mailers
available that do just that very think.  I believe it is Alex who uses Pegasus
mail and could best explain how nice that package is despite my personal
distaste for it based on interface and underlying logic.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Ralf Buschmann]

Dear Allie,

you wrote on Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 02:40:35:

[snip]

AM> I write:

AM> The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

AM> The line above is not to be auto-formatted. I then decide to re-edit and
AM> insert some extra words.

AM> The quick brown fox, before making a great howling noise, jumps over the 
lazy dog.


AM> But hey, that line above should have been re-wrapped. Alt+L is out of the
AM> question for a fix because it would get rid of the indent. :-)

No it won't :-). That is, if you have just the above paragraph.
ALT-L/R/J keeps indentation in paragraphs.

[snip]

Ralf.
-- 
BackMagic: Disaster Recovery & Cloning für Windows 9x
http://www.backmagic.de



--
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

sorry!

[Alberto Almagioni]

  I'm so sorry... I didn't see the option...
  Now it works perfectly.

 Ciao
 Al
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://i.am/atoms
 pgp public key: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Louvre/8338/key.html 
 Fingerprint: 23A0 44F1 8D3B 5C78 0054  4E25 8D0A D73E 4664 8E0F



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Automatic send

[Alberto Almagioni]

  I'm trying to make a filter that send to my gsm via sms the principals
  headers of filtered e-mail: i need to know if it's possible to set
  the filter to automatically send the mail.
  Thank you.

 Ciao
 Al
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://i.am/atoms
 pgp public key: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Louvre/8338/key.html 
 Fingerprint: 23A0 44F1 8D3B 5C78 0054  4E25 8D0A D73E 4664 8E0F



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: TB! WishList

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

Hi Cristian,

On 02 May 2000 at 03:43:42 GMT +0300 (which was 01:43 where I
live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject
of "TB! WishList":

>>That's  a  question of (English) terminology, so I cannot comment it
>>further.

> The programmer of PMMail is an US citizen. I trust his English
> terminology :)

... and as an English citizen, I couldn't disagree more! :-)

-- 
Cheers,
.\\arck

Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer
Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA
www: http://www.silverstones.com
PGP key: 

*---
| Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20 S/N 14F4B4B2
| under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
*---

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org