Re: New user, lotsa questions
On Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 08:59:50PM -0500, A . Curtis Martin wrote: The origin of this behaviour that is present in most Windows based editors that may have reason to use is pretty much besides the point. The reality is that if you are developing an application for Windows users then you are faced with this unfortunate fact and that is that most are accustomed to a certain behaviour or functionality. Which still doesn't make it a standard. What what is coding to is perceptions, not a standard. And 99% of what an editor does, IMHO, isn't even in that perception. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: New user, lotsa questions
On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 03:58:23AM +0200, Karin Spaink wrote: Ah, seems I touched a nerve ;-) Nerve, no. Stabbed the spinal cord? Yes. Currently, for mail, I use the inbuilt Eudora one. But no, I wouldn't mind using Notepad as an editor, but I sure as hell don't want to need to invoke it myself. My mail client should. Which is what every mail client and most BBSs did before Windows came along. It is, quite frankly, how it should have been done before the utter force-fed crap that Microsoft has foisted on the masses as "easy". Don't use me for your own war, I'll refuse ;-) I'd rather that somebody address the overkill issue. Which I am doing. Here it is, if the client called an external editor you could define what features you wanted by calling a different editor. This leaves the authors of the mail client free to /FIX/ problems in their client. Not that *cough*IMAP*cough* TB has any *COUGH*poor filter dialog*COUGH* any, more mail or UI *cough*lack of inheiretance*cough* that needs to be addressed. To not undo your CR and TAB? _That_ is what YTB is currently doing. I get kicked back to the previous line. I find that unacceptable. Turn off auto-format. My editors don't do that, when using TB! it doesn't do that. When I tell it to reflow a paragraph it does. However, I don't have that turned on by default. I'd not complain about something you're telling it to do. For advanced eatures: granted. But I wouldn't call allowing CR TAB advanced. I would call auto-reformat advanced. Don't like it, shut it off. On paper, yes. In electronic mail, no. Says you. Besides, national habits and styles notwithstanding, who is my mail client to tell me what _my_ mails should look like? No, says the online community which has been going on for 20+ years now. As I said, you are now in the ONLINE culture. It isn't national by any means, it is its own culture. As for your question your mail client is doing it because: A: it has a built in editor when it shouldn't. B: You've chosen to tell it to tell you. Yes. Notepad will do. Of course there are more alternatives than Notepad. Take a look at the editors section of www.winfiles.com sometime. They had to split it into three sections because it is so large. I find it amazing that the basic text editor is one of the most fundimental interfaces into the computer that people will have yet most people never think to get something that suits their needs in 90% of the cases in one editor. Alas most of the people who don't look for an editor that suits the majority of their work also are the same people who will suffer with the crap $20 keyboard and $10 mouse that the brand name manufacturers will foist on them. *shrug* I dont want fancy stuff. I just want to be able to set my line length, my tabs, use CR's at will, have Ctrl-Z and that is basically it. I don't want another word porcessor. I have one. In my mail I want a simple text editor, and I won't mind it at all if I can use the plain text editors that I already have, Exactly. And you'd most likely be more productive because you would know what the capabilities were. That is why I'd love to use VIM and the more and more I don't use TB! at home and use Mutt which calls VIM the more I lean towards dropping TB! completely because my editing goes so much faster in VIM. The /ONLY/ thing I miss in VIM is the auto-spellchecking. All the other features of VIM are far superior to TB!'s editor it isn't even funny. Of course the fact I use this editor for configuration file editing, coding, mail news writing and many, many other uses has something to do with that. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: New user, lotsa questions
On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 04:21:01AM +0200, Karin Spaink wrote: Is it now. Yes, it has been explained to you several times. I have been on the net for six years and nobody ever told me that they were aggreviated by the fact that I use a proportional font to compose in and read my and theirs contributions with. Most likely because you weren't trying to do anything more advanced than set up a lunch date. And if I may be so bold to ask -- isn't the whole point of _not_ sending html and stylized shit that this allows end users to see what they get the way they want to see it? Yup. So tell me, which perportional font do you use? Is that different than the font I use? Yes? Then why are you trying to impose your stylize poo onto me? Isn't html meant to be just _structure_ which each end-user can apply their own lay-out to? Nope. What layout? Nonsense. What you are saying is that everybody should send their mail in stylized text or html with css, because only that way that get to see it as _you_ meant it. Ands last time I checked with RFC's, that was not the general idea. No, I am saying that everyone should send in plain text, fixed-width font because unlike perportional fonts and HTML/CSS that is the /ONLY/ way the sender and receiver can see the same thing, EVER. I can see you .sig fine, thank you. Eudora _does_ aloow me to switch from prop. view to fixed view at the press of a button. Bully for it. Too bad that it doesn't do the right thing and keep you in fixed-width font so other people don't have to see your poorly formatted documents. I got loads of mail too. And yes, I want to have an unobtrusive warning if any of my fave mailinglist have new contributions, and of course my known contacts get filtered into their appropriate mailboxes. You do have one. Look at the folder list. WOW, it's highlighted, it has new mail! Hey, in the "new mail" column it has 8. That means 8 new mail in that folder! But if you'd think a bit beyond that, you'd understand that my inbox is the designated place for unexpected mail, and I would like to be automatically pointed there. Why? Why would you want to point to unexpected mail instead of expected mail? lus, I would like to have some kind of overview: Look at the folder list. By gosh-golly-gundrops, IT IS AN OVERVIEW! You don't know what a lack of an overview is until you've use mutt or pine and tried to tell the olympic class yoyos who use it that you'd like an overview and they point out that have a button to go to the next folder with unread messages in it. think that the mailbox-list overview works -- especially since I tend to mark mail-to-be-replied-to or -to-be-attended-to later as 'unmarked'. They will show as nee. Exit overview. Look at the pretty numbers. I do the same thing and I always know where new mail is. In fact, I've been doing it that way for 5 years across two accounts. If course with TB! (Or Eudora if I were ever inclined to use that non-threaded dungheap) I'd just use colors to denote that. If you are filtering then your mail isn't going to the inbox and, again, there is no need for it. Why do I suddenly get the idea that you're arrogant? Took you that long, did it? -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: New user, lotsa questions
On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 04:29:33AM +0200, Karin Spaink wrote: At 20:15 16-09-2000 -0500, A. Curtis Martin kindly wrote: SL Exactly, there isn't a standard, at least not for the more advanced SL features of an editor. She hasn't really touched on any advanced features as such. I have. I use multiple accounts, I am filtering excessively, I am making standard replies and templates and what have you. Pst. He was refering to advanced features in the editor. It is not. Try using notepad, hit Enter and then Tab, and type. Will your soursor move up one line and undo your enter? Doesn't do that for me in TB! either. Of course I'm not big on the computer doing something when I don't tell it to. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: New user, lotsa questions
On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 04:41:42AM +0200, Karin Spaink wrote: 'Cept that I don;'t always read on the spot, and then new massages get added to old (unread) messages. That's where new and old start getting diffuse. I don;t want that. I want my mailer to say that I've recieved do many here and w\so may there. Sorry, I don't buy it. Just look at the numbers and get over it. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: New user, lotsa questions
On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 10:25:46AM +0100, Tony Boom wrote: Stick with it and like Mark, myself and many others, I'm sure you'll come to love it. Wow, that's what, the 5th one now? Sheesh. Hello, I stick with it and after 18 months I still hate it. Some people just don't like the computer doing something without explicit instructions. This is one case. Put the cursor where it is supposed to go, durn it! -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: New user, lotsa questions
On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 04:22:29PM +0100, Tony Boom wrote: SL Hello, I stick with it and after 18 months I still hate it. So can we assume you won't be buying the company? You never know. If that is the only way to get that lame-duck feature removed I might just do that. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: New user, lotsa questions
On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 10:52:07AM -0500, A . Curtis Martin wrote: S Most likely because you weren't trying to do anything more advanced S set up a lunch date. FvV You are very wrong here (and very arrogant too! (why?)) moderator hat on I have to agree with you here Fred. One of the list rules states: 3. Do not turn a discussion into a slanging match by resorting to personal insults and/or derogatory remarks. His statement is clearly in breach of this rule and a warning has been issued. moderator hat off curmudgeon Apparently you don't know the meaning of insult and/or derotatry remarks. Here, let me give you an example. When you put your moderator hat on why is it, white, point and have the word dunce on it? That concludes my example. Now, care to give a rebuttal on how setting a lunch date is as derogatory as that? /curmudgeon hat -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: New user, lotsa questions
On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 12:29:40AM +0200, Karin Spaink wrote: 1. If you move your cursor down in the window in which you are editing your mail (e.g. move it down to the next empty line), it goes down but stays in the same column (read: horizontal axis) and doesn't go to the beginning of the line or the last words in it [SNIP] This is free caret mode. There is no way to turn it off and no, it isn't a bug. I'm sure at least half a dozen people have answered stating that it isn't a bug, that it cannot be turned off and then have proceeded to tell you how glorious and wonderful it is. Quite frankly I wish it could be turned off two because I find it annoying. However, since the majority of the people are wiffing white out on this matter the authors don't appear inclined to do anything to make the editor behave in a sane manner. OTOH, I'm also the one who wiffs markers and wants /no/ editor in the email client at all because everyone's preferences on the perfect editor are different. With no editor the authors don't have to deal with it. They just toss the email out to whatever editor the user decides which, in theory, will behave exactly as they want since they get to choose it. What are you wiffing? :) 2. The tab. When I have "auto-format" on - I want to, I like it, I need it Paragraphs are generally separated by a CR. So this next line is not part of a new paragraph although this next one is. New paragraph. Of course, I am writing this in vim on Linux launched from mutt. IE, an external editor from my mail client which, on this reading, isn't TB!. :) 3. The cookie file is a great feature and allows for rotating signatures. GAAAHHH, Fido-Net flashbacks!! The horror, the horror! The help file is however not too helpful as to the format of the cookie file. After some experimenting, I discovered that each entry should have a line of its own, no line-breaks, and no empty lines between entries. But the cookies show up in one unbroken line whenever I start composing an e-mail or hit reply. How do you make your cookie-entries wrap? \n where you want a newline. 4. Although The Bat claims to have "HTML auto view" and while I have Options -- HTML auto view on, I get to see all the html-mail as plain text, tags included. There is no informationto be found in the FAQ nor in the help file. Actually, HTML is not mentioned in the help file at all -- except in the description of the new features of the update to The Bat. Something tells me that this is because the HTML-Mail you're getting sent is being MIME encapsulated. I /think/ TB! does the sane thing and at least require the HTML to be in a MIME attachment so when people are discussion HTML in email but don't want it displayed (insane idea to the general public, I know) they can see what is going on. :) 5. When will the developpers add proportional fonts? I _hate_ proportional. Suddenly my mail looks ugly.(Yes, I saw the workaround in the FAQ, and I might try it, but I like Arial best). Hopefully never. You'll note my signature would look ugly in proportional fonts. Also mail looks REALLY nasty in proportional fonts. Something about the 78 character max wrap and the lines looking really jaggy when crammed into proportional. For example, these two lines aren't the same width in proportional fonts. 1 W 6. Why isn't the "Find" utility listed under the Tools menu? As of now, one can only find it in the Icon toolbar. ... Good question. I'll go flog them for an answer. 7. I'd like to be able to tell The Bat to automatically focus on my Inbox when new mail has arrived. yes, it's a Eudora habit ;-) Why? 90% of my new mail doesn't arrive in my inbox. It arrives in the folders /outside/ my inbox. Filters, they are your friends. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: New user, lotsa questions
On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 02:36:13AM +0200, Karin Spaink wrote: 1. Why does my reply to Januk gets garbled in the Subject line and suddenly gets "Re[2]: etc" instead of your standard "Re: etc"? TB! loves to count replies for some reason. You can turn that off in the templates. The exact macro eludes me at the moment. Again, on Linux, not Windows. 2. How come that Ctrl-Z only works partially? What I added (new CR's) can be undone, but what I inadvertedly deleted cannot be brought back. That always annoyed me. Call it a bug. Of course, falls back to my whole "should use an external editor in the first place" kick. Already the editor is annoying you in several ways. If it were external you'd just continue running the editor you'd always run. I severely dislike this feature. It is in itself a reason to give up The Bat (and explore other clients). But apart from my personal likes and dislikes, I don't think that your argument holds. Yes, this is a nice feature when you make a table; but how often do you make a table as compared to you editing your message and moving up and down through it? See, another fine case for an external editor. I never, EVER understood why Windows clients insisted on including internal editors on everything under the sun. Complete waste of time. We've been over this Allie, you're not convincing me because, as I said, once the user learns one editor they are /done/ learning editors. Here they never stop having to learn new editors and that wastes time. I am growing more used to it, but I find all the extra keystrokes a hassle. And it _is_ non-standard. Tell me, what /is/ standard in editors? :) Exactly, there isn't a standard, at least not for the more advanced features of an editor. I only know the CUA defines keystrokes for certain behaviors, nothing more. That is more than just a matter of taste: it's a national habit. And I am not US or Canadian. To people I correspond with, it looks weird; and to my peers -- I am a writer -- it looks awkward. A tab is the marker for a paragraph, a blank line the marker for a new idea. On paper, yes. In electronic mail, no. Listen. I am demanding. I know that. And I am not trying to piss you off. But I _am_ desperate for a mail client that has lots of features and can be fine-tuned to a huge degree. BIG HINT TO AUTHORS AND EVERYONE ELSE HERE: Notice here he(?) says he is looking for an email client which is tunable yet all his complaints, thus far, have been with the /editor/? The reasons? I get heaps of mail (so I need good filtering and auto-replies), I type fast but with lots of errors (so they should be easy to correct and my cursor should be easy to focus), I use my mail client 10 hours per day. I hate the bloatware that Eudora is becoming and I dislike the road that they are taking. I have been using Eudora for 5 years. Basically, I want all it had plus some bug-fixing and less new (stupid) features. Let me ask you a simple question. If you could replace the editor with something else, go out to an external editor so you could choose the editor you wanted to use (personally, I'd use VIM but most people here don't want to deal with a VI clone with tons of added features) would you take that route and keep TB? -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: New user, lotsa questions
On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 02:56:33AM +0200, Karin Spaink wrote: Ah, but I don't like pitcvhed fomts to begin with. And as I told Jurek: it feels as if somebdy is hammering it in. You _will_ have fixed fomts and even if you find your way around them. we will still make your message editor act asd if it were fixed font! Trust us, it is the only way email should be. I won't repeat myself, but we're talking cultural differences here. In my country, you don't. And in my book, you don't either. Right, it is cultural. It is the online culture to separate paragraphs with a CR. You're online, time to do as the romans do. There's no discussing taste. But as I said: why both have the fixed fomt as the only alternative _and_ free caret? No idea on the free caret but the fixed font is simple. If everyone has variable width font then nothing comes out to look anywhere remotely as it should. The only sane solution is to use a fixed-width font so what you see will closely approximate what they will see. Again, refer to my signature as an example. I tried for a bit but it insisted on being over everything else -- plus, i still need to go to my inbox, and I don't have a filter report, and... Feh, filter report is nasty anyway. I don't want this stupid window popping up every minute telling me I have new mail. Yes, I check every minute and during the day, on a busy day, I can get more than 1 mail a minute across my accounts. The fact that the folder list has hightlights and numbers of new mail in each folder already tells me that I have new mail and where it is. Which is also why having new mail trigger going into the inbox is foolish. Of the 3-600 messages a day I get on average maybe 5 in each account gets to the inbox. If you want it to bouce to your inbox chances are you're not filtering and are already sitting in your inbox. If you are filtering then your mail isn't going to the inbox and, again, there is no need for it. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: New user, lotsa questions
On Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 08:15:58PM -0500, A . Curtis Martin wrote: This is another thing that I have been indicating to you. In windows, the basic behaviour of most editors is really standard. This is why TB!'s editor is a real 'culture shocker' for those who are used to using different editors for various applications. That is the Microsoft standard, not /A/ standard. There is a big difference. AFAIK the CUA (a standard) defines what keystrokes do, not editor behavior. There is a difference. She hasn't really touched on any advanced features as such. Free caret I considered advanced. She has been complaining about basic cursor movements and responses and behaviour. Trying to type paragraphs etc. For windows, cursor behaviour is pretty standard. Again, it is not a standard. That is what I said. There is no standard and I do not the take the "Microsoft is right" standard as one since it isn't published and can change on a whim. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Regular Expressions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, September 12, 2000, 1:34:40 PM, A wrote: OTOH, most RE experts claim that you'll find uses for RE's that you never imagined would be relevant to your situation and work, once you learn how to use them. While others will point out that RE's are like a hammer in that once you learn how to use them everything is a nail. ;) - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOcJe53pf7K2LbpnFEQLz1QCgvBrIo36BCXE74Iv1HWWu+BRr02sAoPbn iZaPuE4jA9k5QfFje0pyGECQ =bHRt -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: OT: Regular Expressions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, September 13, 2000, 2:16:56 AM, Markus wrote: You may hit me, but in certain way even MS Word knows REs in Search and Replace. Somehow I doubt that if I told Word to do something like the following in vim it would know what to do or that I could even mangle it to do it without some serious macro work. %:s/(\w*)\.home\.earthlink\.net/home.earthlink.net\/~\1/gi - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOcJf3npf7K2LbpnFEQIqwwCfSjFTdWP3qMT1gocWNd510ufuqfIAniND 7fFhnRpUKQEIf6TqLYsqWctS =Fp/S -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: OT: Regular Expressions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, September 13, 2000, 12:35:06 PM, Peter wrote: one, i'm just used to it). And yes, i'm eagerly awaiting the possibility to use Emacs as an external editor from within TB! ... Never understood the drive to use Emacs as an external editor for another email client when it has gnus. I'm told gnus is god when it comes to news and email, I am just opposed to reading mail and news with an editor macro. :) - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOcJgIXpf7K2LbpnFEQIt/wCgnsrv4bZEqWDbnHCM3iqLCW7PMscAoJlM ER1yhdvfdEVHEL6SlHezgDCK =nJKx -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: HTML mail
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, September 15, 2000, 4:02:36 AM, Tony wrote: SL They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Any reason why your not using either of them? What makes you think I'm not using one of them? - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOcJgenpf7K2LbpnFEQJ9zACghvQnXR62jafbhJqmjO6mSva3jOsAoKtt rbhi1Gx1ZW+6O4nIOeRmDTj3 =ODer -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: HTML mail
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, September 15, 2000, 4:43:49 AM, Tony wrote: http://www.incredimail.com/english/index.html Thanks, I'm going to have to go home sick now. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOcJhfHpf7K2LbpnFEQKj+ACcCUhaAQ/HnbIOvjpg4rzrUC03tv4AoKoG 5ch7TpslIuqEDoQOiqBTE2kv =Frr3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Replying to your message dated Thursday, September 14, 2000, at 9:54 AM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, September 15, 2000, 7:50:31 AM, Dierk wrote: I gather that in not too long a time someone wants to have Flash e-mail. Or whatever multimedia "standard" will come ;-). On the PMMail list we're having almost an identical discussion. I decided that from now on I'm going to send out TeX-email since TeX is a typesetting language used in publishing so, clearly, it will get my intent across exactly as I want it, right? - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOcJhznpf7K2LbpnFEQJgGwCeM9AIfIxMUfZ03M7Y6b+zT5mYIIIAnjvD Sj9JdbFDkLFWAV+nhJDeYS4o =lDYH -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: OT: Regular Expressions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, September 12, 2000, 1:48:02 PM, Nick wrote: Do you know any other applications, as an example, that you can use regular expressions with? I've never fell across them before TB! and was wondering if it's just a case of tunnel vision on my part. Like when I can't find the mustard in the fridge. ;-) In Windows REs are pretty much left to rot. In Unix it is almost better to ask what applications /don't/ support them. Every editor that I've used on the Unix side have supported REs for search/search replace. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOcJfTHpf7K2LbpnFEQLC+wCfStNuPJuBwEwZWSwWi1zshQSFX0QAniAP TY9MjYZ4HCS6/YJm8RCG3Uw3 =vW/w -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: a regexp question
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, September 15, 2000, 11:21:25 AM, Jason wrote: My question is, can TB do this work for me with a regexp? The number AFAIK, no. Regexp is pattern matching and string replacement but does not have such capabilities. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOcJvvHpf7K2LbpnFEQJH0ACffOQIopnD2j+XUK7Knxqzg06MqbkAoLbj k0sD+5A8AJHxyJ1SvccJSzp9 =KVMT -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: and a pgp question
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, September 15, 2000, 11:24:31 AM, Jason wrote: Why does signing a message in TB with PGP mess up lines with hyphens? Just look at what it does to my signature. It's not _supposed_ to look like that. Is this a PGP thing in general or specific to the PGP plugin for TB? And whatever the problem...Is there a fix? PGP thing in genera, since the PGP being and end signature lines start with dashes anything in the body which starts with dashes is escaped with the dash space sequence. In PMMail (G, promised I'd not do this, but...) PMMail runs PGP messages through PGP before displaying so you see the original message along with the PGP status (if any) in the status bar. Much cleaner, IMHO. Is there a fix? Yeah, better integration with PGP on the part of TB!, something I've been tossing out every so often for a few months now. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOcJwQnpf7K2LbpnFEQK/YwCfX4BR9qaAmEmzdz6v2aKZLxDFEIEAoOn9 C82SjnGjrG7zWAZZ325dvaZz =Vtuo -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: HTML mail
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, September 15, 2000, 11:33:27 AM, Peter wrote: SL What makes you think I'm not using one of them? The mail that Tony replied to was written (according to the X-Mailer header) with "Mutt/1.2.5i" Right. Is it now mandated that one must only use a single mail client. Hell, this week alone I've used 3 (The Bat!, mutt, KMail) and I run the mailing list for a forth (PMMail) even though I no longer use or endorse it. I think he should have taken a larger sample than one message. ;) - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOcJwknpf7K2LbpnFEQK81gCg9tiUd34oPcwZGx6II7a18c9PamMAnjfh uGk7N9yuU1nbJ1OZfXjV2eFz =4kRF -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: OT: Why not Emacs for mail and news (was Re: OT: Regular Expressions)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, September 15, 2000, 11:30:25 AM, Peter wrote: and found TB! for mail. I've not bothered again to try newer versions of gnus, i like the GUI of TB! (or many parts of it, there is always room for improvements) Agreed. ;) - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOcJwtHpf7K2LbpnFEQL6MQCfa4kQgOLywCkFm9yxrQ94bJ+rrrQAni1Q Xh0WWvRKI0RVlB1RFew2usku =236Z -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: HTML mail
On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:54:55PM +0100, Marck D. Pearlstone wrote: attachment. Thus you can attach a prepared HTML file to an email an and in that way send an "HTML mail". I don't want to get into an argument about OE and Poco and all of the others that "let you do it properly". That doesn't make it right IMHO. Heh, you should take a look at one of the threads on the PMMail mailing list. We've gone over many reasons why HTML in email shouldn't be done. :) Now, show me another client that handles multiple accounts, with template facilities like TB offers, as powerful a sorting office and the very useful ticker and its' virtual folder for reading all new mail. I don't believe there is one. PMMail. Of course it doesn't have templates (which aren't used most of the time), has better sorting and doesn't need the ticker as it has most features available from the tray. I call them comparable. :P -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: HTML mail
On Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 01:22:21AM +0800, Thomas Fernandez wrote: My main argument is always the waste of bandwidth (and that I find emails with different fonts and colours offensive or just plain ugly, but that's certainly a matter of taste). What other reasons are there? There is no standard set of HTML defined for email clients to support. 2.0, 3.0, 4.0? XHTML 1.0? CSS? XML? What should they support and what should they /not/ support? There is no standard set for displaying HTML from email, only for the transport of the HTML in MIME. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Replying to your message dated Thursday, September 14, 2000, at 9:54 AM
On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 12:55:09PM -0700, David Tod Sigafoos wrote: And why shouldnt email be presentable? Email /is/ presentable. It doesn't need HTML for that. What is it about HTML that scares people so much. The fact there is no standard for displaying it, what standard does exist is for browsers and no two browsers display correctly. On top of that 99% of the time it is completely annoying because it overrides how /I/ like to see my mail. I don't want to see it in someone else's preferences, I want to see it in mine. Having the ability to send a message to our users with a toc at the beginning of the note and links to other spots in the note is a great feature. Search does that just fine. Isn't going to happen. AND if you want TB to be successful and always be at the top of the reviews it will be an important add-on. Please, why do people insist on trotting out this tripe? It is the top /NOW/ because it works nicely as an email /CLIENT/, not as a browser, not as an html page editor. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Replying to your message dated Thursday, September 14, 2000, at 9:54 AM
On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 03:02:57PM -0700, David Tod Sigafoos wrote: Who says? Who is the leading authority on what email needs or doesn't need? Indeed. So why are you saying that it needs HTML? True .. there is no 'definitive' standard. But 99% of HTML (not dhtml, xhtml etc) is compatible. *chuckle* What does CENTER/CENTER do in HTML 4.0? -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: HTML mail
On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 03:26:33PM -0700, ztrader wrote: On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 10:10:51 AM, you wrote: SL has better sorting What is better? That is not enough context to go by. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: HTML mail
On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:59:22PM -0500, A . Curtis Martin wrote: cough PMMail as a straightforward multi-account e-mail system is comparable. Once you start moving to advanced features, PMMail in general becomes a shadow of TB!. I used PMMail for a longer time than I've been using TB!. :-) Aside from templates what does TB! really do better? PMMail has nicer filtering, better PGP implementation, better overall UI (as in easier to use), is more logically laid out, etc. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: HTML mail
On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:03:20PM -0700, ztrader wrote: What sorting functions or operations does it do better? The layout and accessability is generally better in PMMail. With TB! the configuration of filters is quite cryptic. With PMMial it is straightforward in basic mode and quite nice with limited scripting capabilities in advanced mode. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: HTML mail
On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:36:12PM -0700, ztrader wrote: I'd have to agree there, although good help files and examples could have answered many of the questions I had. Even with help I'm afraid the filtering is just poorly laid out. SL limited scripting capabilities in advanced SL mode. Hey - now you're talking. How can I find out more about the scripting? Does it really do useful things? Mainly just logic control. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: HTML mail
On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:36:23PM -0500, A . Curtis Martin wrote: You're asking me to put aside, perhaps, the single most significant reason why I use TB! over PMMail. I cannot just put it aside like that and continue the argument. :-) That's the point. You use templates extensively, I hardly use them at all. Templates are just another feature. PMMail has features that TB! does not. To me that means they work out in the end. Oh, I got my hands on a pro version of PMMail and went through it's PGP implementation. It's different from TB!'s and it does some things better. TB! also does some things better with PGP as well. :-) Aside from choosing different DLLs, what? PMMail's automatically decrypts each time so there is no need for a clear copy, automatically checks signatures instead of forcing the user to ask for it and correctly chooses the proper key based on account. TB! just implements the most basic and piss-poor, I might add, dialogs from the PGP DLLs itself with no automation and no attempt to fix the glaring problems it has. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: PGP signing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, September 07, 2000, 8:16:18 AM, Marek wrote: Hello all, Thursday, September 07, 2000, Cameleon wrote: We can setup a macro for "sign when completed". But can we say in the template with WHICH key we want sign, assuming there are many signing keys in the keyring ? no. You can write wish :-) Wish. BTW, key needs to be identified by KeyID. ;) - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBObfYpXpf7K2LbpnFEQJ5dQCeMJZC8WcuZ3dOz4wk1WBEF0kxXhwAoPcV yio2UyOjsZqZ8lbBFUfmDP4E =LNL8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Sewcurity
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, August 29, 2000, 9:18:18 AM, Christian wrote: Btw, if you like I can send you some of my love letters. If you've seen one you have seen them all anyway.. ;) Please, darling, next time more duct tape on the hamster and 10W-40 would be in order. Love, Charles - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOawoEHpf7K2LbpnFEQJGswCbB737EoTsGhWpyHhgHEeflMYJsNAAoLHC XS34qCg8qTawpGJzhxFBi+Ja =9G+O -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Am I missing something?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 How does one get TB! to set itself as default mail client without going through the install? - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOaWPh3pf7K2LbpnFEQLCRwCg511JZMVcpPzPs+EDvD+U29WbR4gAnjd4 Kjb7pd79Cbk/F5VMdr9BYsp5 =Tr9T -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Monday, August 14, 2000, 11:08:06 AM, Dierk wrote: BTW, my browser is Opera and what I don't like about the latest version is it's integrating of features which are not - repeat *not* - really integral to a browser, i.e. news and mail facilities. Uhm, those were present well before v4.0 was ever even thought of. Even it's download manager seems to me superfluous as there are at least two very good managers on the market (Go!zilla and GetRight). I don't see how it is a download manager at all. It seems to fit right in and certainly doesn't offer the power of a more specialized FTP client. I have LeechFTP as my FTP client and use it regularly where Opera fails. If that is all the "download managers" offer, they certainly are not worth a separate client since it is pittance. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZ8kSHpf7K2LbpnFEQIrTgCfckManLVYLiQ4JR5Z9jvBo4lt8IAAn0MX VvDg+ffgNs7ldfKmiLAoT41r =kyA5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Fwd: Re: TheBat and Spam
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Once again the question of effective filtering of spam has come up and once again people have made suggestions which simply do not work. A "bozo bin" doesn't work because spammers most likely move to a different address before you even check your mail and read the message. All they do is provide an extra filter that needs to be run and virtually nil chance of catching anyone. Filters on subjects or on pseudo-techincal means also fail because they generate false positives, are ineffective (maake monie know!), and can block legit users for dubious return. So, without futher buildup, here's the system that I put to this list back in January. Let me know that in that time I had instituted that filter on my home account and was catching 2-3 spam a day and cannot recall a single positive hit /aside/ from when I started a new list and hadn't gotten a message in from it yet to set up the filtering. In another message in a related thread I noted that I had once figured out hit hit/miss/false positive hit ratio on my mail. Something like 99.95% hit, .001% false positive with the remainder, .049%, being spam getting through to my inbox. That was over several years of using that system on PMMail on an account that was spammed heavily and on which I got in excess of 500 messages per day. Frankly, this should be a FAQ. ===Original message text=== From: Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Fred Weissman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, January 10, 2000, 11:10:57 AM Subject: TheBat and Spam Monday, January 10, 2000, 9:57:35 AM, Fred wrote: little while. Today, this quote caught my eye. Can you tell me about your spam system? Where can I find the specifics for it? Will it in fact do what tracer asks (i.e. dump mail which has sender=receiver)? No, it doesn't do that. However, it doesn't have to. Allie recently sent a message out that described it so you might have it. If not, here's the short version. The two basic premises are this: 1: Nearly every spammer BCCs. 2: People get mail from two sources, directly addressed to them from individuals they know or mass mailed (BCC) mailing lists they signed up for. Instead of trying to filter spam, we're going to define a set of rules to filter everything but spam. So, we set up a series of filters. The first batch filters out all the mailing lists that the individual is on. Most people do this anyway. Once they filter it, it stops. The second series of filters catches mail from individuals who /may/ BCC the person. Friends, family, loved ones, work colleagues, etc. The next to last filter stops filtering on anything which is directly addressed to the individual. The last filter moves everything that wasn't caught by the above filters into a spam folder for the person to double check for something that might have been missed and final deletion. Another way to put it is like this... If it isn't a mailing list, from friends/relatives or directly addressed to you, chances are high that it is spam. In tracer's case, if sender = recipient chances are it isn't on a mailing list he is on, it isn't from someone he expects to BCC him, and, clearly, it isn't from him. It will be filtered. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- End of original message text=== - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZek4npf7K2LbpnFEQLgvwCgk631yX18d3rCX+0DPSCIAaL9Q3AAnjrR 9SLSmd7ItKy3Bz3XDMmDFXpF =yOhM -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Moderator's Announcement
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Saturday, August 12, 2000, 2:21:28 AM, Marck wrote: Please extend a warm welcome to your new moderator - I know I do :-). 'Grats. I can think of none better. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZeh+npf7K2LbpnFEQI9QACcChhJO0hGe5Yl4OSxwks63uQo38QAnRgN +Lh5LMeoAzVXdM6q2Y+ZsqPg =euMg -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Two Format Questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 11:24:23 PM, Graham wrote: Any idea where I can get vim? I like Editpad for a number of reasons, but I want an editor I can use with other applications and The Bat! I'd like to look at vim www.vim.org - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZOl3Hpf7K2LbpnFEQKJ7ACeOMrIAl8v/apPYRqICWhf+CZHT6oAn0/V 31S4skXEMfh8uS5kZcVlrhEY =YdiV -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Communication between mail clients and external editors
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 11:43:19 PM, Oleg wrote: It doesn't remain in memory -- it is dumped to swapfile and next time I will need it it will be ready a bit faster than if started again. It will be an economy of my time if I use it frequently. On the time scale you're talking about, if you /really/ need the few ns that it /might/ save, you need to look at cutting down on other business in your life and not worry about placing programs into the swap file. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZOmT3pf7K2LbpnFEQLToACfR7g6UZ0iMfrfv91H8ea7Lhkvm+MAoNXr +tIKdj0MEfv3L+WsNC0+i2Ck =GEi3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Communication between mail clients and external editors
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 11:43:19 PM, Oleg wrote: It doesn't remain in memory -- it is dumped to swapfile and next time I will need it it will be ready a bit faster than if started again. It will be an economy of my time if I use it frequently. You know, I replied too soon. Ok, your contention is that it doesn't remain in memory, that it dumps into the swap file and is loaded from that. Fine, it is still all disk access so I don't believe the speed gain is all that much, a few ns at best as I indicated in my previous message. However, the argument is that if you're using the editor often enough it is faster to leave it in memory than to load it up each time, right? Well, I believe that if you're using it often enough to want to leave it in memory (aside from the HUGE editors, which we're not talking about) that it is most likely already /IN/ memory. That silly thing called the disk cache that most modern OSs implement automatically, including Windows. Yesterday I finally mucked around with vim/gvim and got vgim into some of the windows menus and made a shortcut for it on my launcher. I loaded it a good 20 times yesterday from the start bar and exited it 20 times, also. At no time did I ever have to wait for it to start up. From nothing to loaded, even without the disk cache, was less than a blink of an eye, literally. That includes any syntax highlighting scripts that it loaded for the code I was working on at the moment. Since I loaded it so often I am willing to bet that after the first one it was in the cache. I didn't notice a difference on startup. In fact, sitting here double clicking the icon for gvim as fast as I can it comes up as fast as I do it, 20-30 windows straight. Therefore I feel the whole argument of "Well, it saves me time on loadup" is most likely dogma from the authors of the program and unless you're on a machine where TB! itself would be dog slow to load up any decent editor that would be used for composing email does not need to be kept in memory or swap or whatever they want to claim this time for any speed considerations at all. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZOonHpf7K2LbpnFEQJSEwCgsgi5SR+7IIWXc98C3vYYSU8JYLMAnRwr JYsS0s8f9vFDGR9zTGSj0b1T =MSVV -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Communication between mail clients and external editors
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, August 11, 2000, 3:40:39 AM, Soth wrote: Then why were you so eager to term it "another notepad wannabe"? Because most, if not all, ASCII editors on Windows aren't much above that level. I've taken a look at UltraEdit and wasn't impressed by it in the least. Same stuff, different programmer The last time that I tried gvim for Windows, 2 months or so ago, I was left very disappointed. Why? It is vim. I find it rather pleasing to have the same editor on my Windows box as I do my Linux box and my Solaris box and most of the Solaris boxen I work on at work. It hasn't failed me yet. What were you expecting from gvim that vim doesn't do? - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZPbTXpf7K2LbpnFEQKPxACfXIs7gfj4FHoG9xEDOcksz2iqAksAn1N8 A6hh5sh2P13Gdzmq/tK80aeO =IQpK -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why not a Newsgroup or and WWW-forum?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, June 28, 2000, 4:50:14 PM, starc wrote: My question is, why don´t we create a newsgroup Because newsgroups are very open and hard to control. They are also very easy to harvest email addresses from. forum in a www-page for posting all this stuff. Because webboards suck. No, that is not an opinion, that is a statement of fact. No high water mark, no easy way to see what is new for /you/ versus what is new to the webboard, no decent editor, nothing. Webboards are pree-BBS on a C=94 (Opex anyone) dialed in from a CoCo 1 w/the old 32 colum wide display (32x42 IIRC) on a 300bps modem. Any of those too solutions would be better, more effective, etc... and you wouldnt have to download all those articles each day to your mail folders You're missing something. They are not better, they are definitely not more effective, they are very difficult to use, to filter through, to follow. Hell, you don't even get any of the nifty features that some people want like SLIME and PGP. Finally, we know we all have an email client... Amazing that, but it is true, we do. And the email client is designed, quite well in fact, to allow people to follow conversations. Mailing lists aren't as easy to harvest email addresses from, aren't as easy to spam, have a built in high water mark in several different forms, has a nice editor (even though some of us find it lacking) and is, well designed for this kind of communication. Of course the list server they are using (home brew scripting around TB! core I believe) leaves a /LOT/ to be desired compared to, say, Listar, it is a far cry better than a newsgroup filled with spam and a webboard which is impossible to follow. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZQohnpf7K2LbpnFEQJxVACeJAstc1q2QN9HDP9vzOxUda4F8qcAn19B EP8friqTXoM4JCheNzJ8ZR/3 =eFtC -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Communication between mail clients and external editors
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, August 11, 2000, 5:03:19 AM, Soth wrote: I don't believe that's a justifiable claim. Oh, it is more than justifiable. I downloaded it and boy did the problems come flooding in. First off, default colors were completely unacceptable. When I changed them none of the context highlighting matched their basic lines to the defaults. BAD. Not to mention the default context highlighting colors were horrid in the first place. Half the things were unreadable. Dare I even mention that it had all of, what, 5 highlight types? Failed to reflow a quoted paragraph. MDI application. That is about 82 strikes against it right there. Very few, if any, of the commands were accessible from the keyboard. When coding, typing a letter to mom or composing an email guess where my hands are? If you guessed the mouse, you're wrong. That is a HUGE strike against it right there. I didn't learn the single most important lesson about basic text editing. The primary input is the /keyboard/ so /all/ important commands should be accessible from the keyboard. That alone barely puts it above Notepad. Complete lack of Regex. Text editing without regex is unacceptable, completely. UltraEdit, is basically Notepad with the lousy MDI interface and /some/ cutesy tricks bolted on in a haphazard fashion. It is completely unsuited for any heavy duty editing of any sort. $30 for it is too kind. The last editor I paid for, Mr. Ed on OS/2, at least had most commands on the keyboard. I don't recall what else it did or did not do since that was a good 5 years ago? - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZQv3npf7K2LbpnFEQJrRACcDSeci//hprk9Bn93+vf/KTvLK5cAoK72 Xa0rnyTNZytwgNM7vf9MZdc/ =Qg9u -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, June 28, 2000, 6:37:07 PM, starc wrote: And...by the way...new people are sometimes better enabled to see things that are wrong...cuz the older users are already familiar with it, they got used to the system and to those things that are wrong. Its the older users that are the most difficult to change to a new system. Its like a new person entering a room with lots of people in it and the windows closed...he senses the bad smell. (this wasnt intended as a critic to this mailing list) *cough* Bullpoo. It is always the newbie, ALWAYS, that comes in and thinks that the newest and latest and greatest is /better/ than the rest because it is newest. When you can address all my points maybe us old fogies will pay attention to you. That will show that you've actually thought it out instead of default to what is new and what you're used to. BTW, I noticed that you're using "u" to denote the pronoun "you". Now, I'm not one to criticize another person's spelling since my is not the greatest when outside a spell checker backing me up. So, I'll just assume it is a cultural difference and rewrite this message accordingly so you may completely understand what I am saying. Hopefully this will clear up any misunderstandings you may have about the position of this list. Thanks. - --- SNIP --- *COUGH* BULP00! IT IZ ALWAYZ THE NEWBIE. ALWAYZ. THAT CUMZ 1N + THINKZ THAT THE NEWEST + L8ST + GRE8ST IZ /BETTUR/ THAN THE REST BECAUSE IT IZ NEWEST. WHEN U CAN ADDREZ AL MY PO1NTZ MAYBE UZ OLD FOGIEZ WIL PAY ATTENSHUN 2 U. THAT W1L SHOW THAT UVE ACTUALY THOUGHT 1T OUT 1NSTEAD UV DEFAULT 2 WHAT IZ NEW + WHAT URE USED 2. BTW. 1 NOTICED THAT URE US1NG "U" 2 DENOTE THE PRONOUN "U"! NOW. 1M NOT 1 2 CRIT1CIZE ANOTHUR D00DZ SPELING SINCE MY IZ NOT THE GRE8ST WHEN OUTSIDE A SPEL CHECKUR BACKING ME UP. SO. 1L JUST ASSUME IT IZ A CULTURAL DIFFURENCE + RURITE THIZ MESSAGE ACCORD1NGLY SO U MAY COMPLETELY UNDURSTAND WHAT 1 AM SAYING. HOPEFULY TH1Z W1L CLEAR UP ANY MISUNDURSTANDINGZ U MAY HAVE ABOUT THE POS1SHUN UV TH1Z LIST! THANKZ! - --- SNIP --- - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZRCZnpf7K2LbpnFEQKJcwCgpLDmuovdR0+W49659KYkGIBMKbYAnR8u z93JtN5t2RB8eQTrecHW4GKY =zaQU -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ooook, maybe I wrote the last message wrong. Wednesday, June 28, 2000, 7:56:40 PM, starc wrote: Hmm...sorry..but u r the one writing BULLPOO. As I already pointed out in another email, I never thought that my suggestion was better. Really? You mean you didn't write this line? - --- SNIP --- Any of those too solutions would be better, more effective, etc... - --- SNIP --- I do believe that even the non-native English speakers of the list (and there are plenty) would most likely confirm that the above, written by you at Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:50:14 -0300 in message [EMAIL PROTECTED] would seem to indicate that you do, in fact, believe that newsgroups and/or webboards would be better. That is generally what "would be better" and "more effective" means. If you like I can go to www.m-w.com, look up each word and describe to you in detail why those words, in that order, in the context given does indeed give the impression you were stating they were better. That would be a bit pedantic, however. I just formulated it as a question. No, you made a statement, cited above. Please check your sent folder if you're unsure. This would be a good time on how to use the search function in conjunction with the MSGID cited. Most replies I received where flames. No. So far there haven't been any flames. The closest that came to it was my message. They have been quite reasoned. In fact, it is the person who brings in a new idea of any sort who is always criticized by the mass. Your idea isn't new. It has been presented, thought about and rejected several times. I'm used to it. That's nice. It has been this way since the time I was in school. It is my impression that this sentence should be in the present tense, not the past tense. I wonder though, why I was the one who always had the better grades LOL(laugh out loud). We're aware of what LOL stands for, thank you. Either use the abbreviation or write it out, not both. As for better grades, you'll pardon me if my skepticism is high. And I don't think that the newest is always better(by the way I don't read newsgroups on a regular basis). That's nice. It's just the question to use the right tools for the right things. I don't think a single soul here would disagree with that. Email wasn't intended for making a discussion group. Quite the contrary, one of the expressed uses of email per RFC822 which was published in 1982 is for discussion lists. In fact it is how to denote that use that is a particular point of contention between many mailing list administrators. From section 4.4.3 of RFC822 regarding the REPLY-TO header: "A somewhat different use may be of some help to "text message teleconferencing" groups equipped with automatic distribution services: include the address of that service in the "Reply- To" field of all messages submitted to the teleconference; then participants can "reply" to conference submissions to guarantee the correct distribution of any submission of their own. " Please note that newsgroup headers must be RFC822 compliant. This is important to realized because for that requirement to be made newsgroups would have to come /after/ email. That's what newsgroups where made for. Correct. That does not, however, automatically invalidated the myriad of email discussion lists. Generally newsgroups are designed for a larger readership and a broadcast medium. They are more informal than mailing lists in tone and nature. There is a place for both. In general a mailing list is for a smaller group of people who will discuss matters with one another over a period of months or years and do not want a plethora of lookieloos popping in from time to time voicing uneducated opinions about matters they know nothing of. So why don't use them? That was the way I thought about the question. No, it was the statement we took issue of. Well you posted an earlier answer explaining the reasons why we stick to a mailing list. That I did. Whether or not you read them and understood them is a matter of private debate at the moment. Until now it was the only answer that didn't flame me right away. No, it was one of several. I have learned something new. We have yet to see that new knowledge put to use, however. I don't understand why you suddenly start flaming me. We have not. All those flames really don't contribute to this list, and are mainly a means for some people to get rid of their frustrations or somehow feel important by putting down others. I'm sure that is the case. You will be duly notified when the flaming begins. Until that time, trust me, you've not been flamed. Newsreaders aren't new, www-boards aren't new, and in fact I'm not a regular user of any of those. Newsreaders aren't new. However, they aren't older than email or the use of email
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, August 11, 2000, 12:35:45 PM, Mark wrote: TIT(This is true). Perhaps the definitive answer to the original question would be reached if such a discussion group was created. No. Then, those that preferred the newsgroup approach could use that and those that prefer the email apporach could use that. Eventually a winner would probably emerge... (I'm guessing here but!) so, if anyone wants to volunteer to create a discussion list, we'll soon see which method serves the greater-group the best... Bad idea. Then you have two forums and if people want to keep up with what is going on they will need to read both. Webboards aren't worth looking at since they are so primitive it isn't even cute. Anyone who is marginally competent with an email client, which I am assuming is anyone who makes regular use of TB!, would be frustrated with such forums. Newsgroups really don't offer any benefit over mailing lists on such a small scale while providing a large vulnerability to spam /if/ it is carried on the backbone systems. Of course you open a whole can of worms. Do the users have news readers (we know they have an email client)? Do they have access to a server with the newsgroup (propagation is not a guarenteed thing)? Does their news server, if it has the group, have a complete feed of the group? Do we gateway from the email list to the newsgroup? Do we run a private news server to bypass spam and propagation issues? If so, how do we support that news server and all readers and people that want to access it. Given that we know they have an email client and know what that client can do it is only logical the primary, and indeed, unless the user base baloons, only support forum should be an email list. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZRZMXpf7K2LbpnFEQLUiwCaA96AQvykvhOB3e9j6pVQUa7s59gAnR1m Pnu4dS9YBz0T4USNBB0zQGDa =ZME/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Effective Immediately
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, August 11, 2000, 7:07:35 AM, Tom wrote: Steve's posts amuse me these days. He tries so hard to be offensive, I find it hard not to laugh. Actually, I don't try to be offensive at all. I am what I am and have long since grown tired of trying to appease anyone but me. It isn't grappling with issues, it is the lack of grappling. People only act that way to get a rise out of people, so if you don't respond *at all* to the offensive parts of a post (not even so much as "snip of flamage", just delete it), then he won't get nearly the thrill out of it. I think you have missed something, most times I answer in kind. While butting heads with Joe was I smacking anyone else around nearly as hard? Nope. In fact, go back and read and you'll note my first 5-6 messages to Joe were rather mild in tone. I agree, although with the asterisk that he is one who actually verifies EVERYTHING that is said on the list to be true. Not everything. People have caught me with misrepresentation of what a certain RFC says. Usually when they cite it to me I back down real quick. I think it is just that I happen to check more than most. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZR50npf7K2LbpnFEQKWuACg/dAd0axSzEsch3mCsBbc++ECcMQAoLhW ot0msJ9SWV6qE6vOK9xldfyK =eLFv -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: SOT: tbudl's mailserver (was: Re: Why not a Newsgroup or and WWW-forum?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, August 11, 2000, 3:28:48 PM, Peter wrote: Syafrils server and is using MDaemon as the list server software. I don't know how MDaemon compares to Listar (if there is anybody willing to point out the differences, move to tbot, I would be interested) I can't say. I've been quite happy with Listar. I do know that having the email address at the bottom is killing their turnaround time and bandwidth since none of the messages can be batched at all. If someone could tell me where to find MDaemon I might be able to provide some base review of it. Of course, I am biased, but we all knew that. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZSAeHpf7K2LbpnFEQJ/tgCg+mMHK3IJp6RaqJ2RuSjbvQNgcmIAn3c8 jfLowFHb755wyKiKzjvQm2A9 =2w0l -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Two Format Questions
On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 08:37:54PM -0500, Curtis wrote: SL Why would anyone use an MDI editor in the first place? It offers SL only limitations over SDI editors. Not editors that offer both MDI and SDI options. Anyway, that's a strawman argument there. You're deviating again into an argument about MDI versus SDI editors. You haven't answered the query. No, I haven't. Why would anyone want an MDI editor? They only limit you. Because of that if you /are/ using an MDI editor it is your own tough luck. furthermore if your editor doesn't give you an option to save and exit that buffer with a simple command then it is time to get a better editor or, again, your own tough luck. Anyway, if a 'hook' can be used to open the editor, I don't see why one can't be used to close it. I'm not a programmer as you know so please clarify for me. It is easy for a process to start another process. All they have to do is run it. They cannot, however, directly control that process without a lot of custom programming on each end of the pipe. The easiest, most practical and most portable method to use an external editor is to envoke the editor and wait for a signal of some kind (like the file being updated /and/ being able to be opened in write mode) before resuming. Of course in the Unix CLI world they just exec the editor without a fork first so the parent program pauses until the editor is exited. When the editor is exited the parent program resumes. The reason why I ask is that you cannot hit send until you've close the editor. This all points back to my original question about why the send action can't be made to close the editor window but from your response I guess it can't be done. Not in a manner that would work with even a minority of editors, no. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Communication between mail clients and external editors
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 2:43:00 AM, Oleg wrote: SL use are a little more advaced than the garden variety notepad programmed by a SL shareware wannabe visual basic programmer? Because I don't exit my UltraEdit. I just close project with all files and UE got minimized to tray when last window closed. And If I will Like I said, a cheap, garden variety notepad wannabe. Get a real editor. Unless you've got Word or Emacs there is /NO/ need for the editor to remain in memory except to slow your machine down. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZKuOXpf7K2LbpnFEQK+PQCZARkchobWuXV4I5QVUJnkjTnifSgAoImm EsgZlcpBvArKpvVzRP+SUyGM =RLjX -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Communication between mail clients and external editors
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 7:20:46 AM, Jamie wrote: So what exactly is better than UltraEdit? In my opinion and it blows Word and Emacs out of the water. I've never used it. Why should I when I've had joe and vim? - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZLE+Hpf7K2LbpnFEQLkQQCeM74ewQofm3jCkF7OR3w6xBMJqa8AoP3U MQqK+UlWAULC2ud5NJhPpvYr =UHLW -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Communication between mail clients and external editors
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 10:51:18 AM, Kenneth wrote: Ideally there should be a standard editor "server protocol" that all editors should support so that editor-using clients (like mail composition programs) need not include an editor but can tie to the user's personal favorite. Currently the only such protocol is to invoke a new instance of the editor with a filename as a parameter. What other protocol is there that will work across all platforms? Every other form of direct process control is platform specific. The only things you can count on are the basics on the OS level. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZLvwHpf7K2LbpnFEQKaMACfeeLkbDuFtc81oaiLYYroVdd+GScAn0vp ZGYOqyVB+ErKUr6YEy7VSLAh =HEs7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Two Format Questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 10:58:03 AM, Nick wrote: One of the nicest little MDI Editors I use is called EditPad. It's Freeware, and you can take a look at it here: http://www.jgsoft.com/editpadlite.html Yikes. How can anyone get any work done in that thing? Suffers from about as much EMACSitus as TB! does. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZLx+3pf7K2LbpnFEQJDtACfULM2CphE80xH7NTcVvsl5HaPT8sAn2tq n6izVPo62utaGdaulVN8kE00 =DFzP -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Communication between mail clients and external editors
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 12:32:09 PM, Kenneth wrote: First, does it need to be cross-platform? Would one run an email client and editor on different machines? TB! will soon be on Linux. The issue isn't what the user will do, but what the programmers will do. The real question is the scope of the communication between a persistent editor server and a suite of editor clients. I think one just needs new, open, and close signals to the edit server and a save signal to the client. Which needs to be defined for each editor. Most editors can't even implement anything more complex than a simple search and replace correctly. I doubt they would even begin to consider this. No, the file open/close method is the best because it works with everything regardless of the competency of the programmers. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZMURHpf7K2LbpnFEQKavACg1/Z0cHIRlDAhaCuBqQB3A5g3F6IAoM0a bylmYrhCnyij2m+WyQ06fgao =/Mv/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Question regarding case (in)senisitivity in Reg Exp filters
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 12:32:00 PM, Peter wrote: The PCRE part of the help file is IMHO one of most complete help topics, once you've found it. My tip for locating it: open Help, go to the find tab and enter "regular". Choose the entry "What are regular expressions" and from there on you have all the links. No, it is not. It tells you to look at the PCRE docs which tells you what regular expressions are and how they work. It does not, as of the last time I checked, tell you how they are implemented in TB! or provide examples of how to use them in TB!. Without those all important implementation details knowing regex is useless. Remember, XNews, TB!, Python and Exim are all programs I use (some more than others) that use PCRE. Not a one implements them the same way or in the way, in fact, that Perl does even though they are "Perl Compatible Regular Expressions." - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZMU4Xpf7K2LbpnFEQI1xQCgoVyfupobaUg+4Vt+vxcwBt8VuAoAoPRE xk4484esrD9muNKACruCaMN3 =wxTh -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Two Format Questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 12:01:08 PM, Nick wrote: The choice of Editors is all "need" dependant, and EditPad Lite meets my meager needs perfectly when I want to quickly open or create a small text file. :o) I fail to see why one needs to keep a "small" editor in memory in the first place or why a "small" editor needs to be MDI. For that matter, why any editor needs to be MDI. TB!'s Editor, although quirky, is one of the most powerful Editors I've used M, it is subpar, actually, even for mail. It is better than most, but that is only because most are so bad at it. editor-using clients (like mail composition programs) need not include an editor but can tie to the user's personal favorite. Prediction? Hmph, that is how it has been on Unix for years and what I've been trying to get the more advanced mail clients to do for years. Stop trying to reinvent every wheel out there. In that case, I'd like to already be familiar with an Editor. Any suggestions for one with Win 98? vim, or, more importantly, gvim. The more I use it the more I like it and the more I find out that it can do from simple to complex. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZMVuHpf7K2LbpnFEQLx1wCg01baDnOuOF0UoPGI4SsfnuJiysAAniho UQVYfoPopgFe26htauCBvmG7 =bzR9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: From in a message
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 1:58:11 PM, Marck wrote: No. Only those of us who have a sendmail server between the list server (which is MDaemon running on a WinNT/2K PC) and the end user POP server. It isn't sendmail, it is the delivery agent and only on mbox format. The POP server that can read mbox format should also know how to unescape a From like that. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZMeynpf7K2LbpnFEQJ4YQCcDfjYQoJDKMylCJ0gTSghAFTshUkAn2V5 2lBkaUXStnpaUXb+AZJUiHZi =yx6w -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Communication between mail clients and external editors
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 2:22:25 PM, Kenneth wrote: I was thinking that more powerful editors like those you and I use could implement this as either a core function or in an add-on DLL (.so for Linux). Stupider editors could rely on a small wrapper app that does the current job of launch and wait for exit. Its not something that I would count on without a seriously formalized standard of some sort. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZMhY3pf7K2LbpnFEQKtxgCeOXUqfqI4+xn1jH4T5qDlmovRf4gAn3c/ MVGsKGKn+PF839n91cJ+COAz =LDvY -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: From in a message
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 2:49:48 PM, Kenneth wrote: Not sure about the latter. How would you tell the difference between a line that was escaped vs. one that was originally in that form before sending? The MUA could make an educated guess based on context, I suppose, but is there any deterministic way to do it? I believe the same way that . is escaped at the beginning of the line in an email message. ;) I've not read the RFCs on this, if there are any, so I cannot say. However, if I were programming such a thing and creating such a standard it would check for (pardon regex here) m/^+From / and if found, return the s at the beginning minus one. If storing the message it would check for m/^*From / and add one. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZMsd3pf7K2LbpnFEQJUdQCg6+wy7kE4pNqy7+4KKvMJbn+nHOAAoOsq pOSCzD7+XKJx3fHfLhMQO/HH =jxGh -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Effective Immediately
On Thu, Aug 10, 2000 at 05:49:01PM -0500, Joe Finocchiaro wrote: Apparently he can't write a message without being sarcastic. Odd, I've written about a dozen today without sarcasm. Maybe you can't read my messages without sarcasm? to one of my posts (no, I don't need nor want his help), and he does enjoy "yanking my chain" because he's always gotten away with yanking everyone's else's chain. News flash, I wasn't yanking your chain. What I said was accurate because of all the reasons you've stated in previous message that you dislike about me. "Yanking your chain" means, you know, lying to you. Except I wasn't lying and I think a good 20-30 people can confirm that. And if you're/the moderators going to continue to let him yank my chain, just tell me, okay? I'm sure when I do lie to you, people will let you know. But I'm not going to let him (or anyone else here, for that matter)yank my chain without me responding accordingly. Well, when someone lies to you I'm sure you'll do the responsible thing and point out exactly why they are wrong complete with cites to appropriate sources, hopefully relevant RFCs, correct? Let's make this one in a nice floral arrangement, ok? -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Using The Bat! with GPG
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 7:34:24 PM, Cricket wrote: There is no need to install PGP. Doesnt TB! have a built in PGP module? ... under Tools-Privacy-PGP_Version First of GPG isn't PGP. Secondly the build in version can only deal with RSA keys AFAIK. Which kinda hurts for people like me who use their DH key. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZOAm3pf7K2LbpnFEQI3BACggILMI8l1ISFEsMBf62znZCOYyg8AoI7+ xaBtAEo/WOv6zjaW29oQLRfH =v91k -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Effective Immediately
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, August 10, 2000, 5:08:04 PM, Joe wrote: Thanks, everyone out there who gave me a lot of help, and there were quite a few of you! You're most welcome. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZOAYXpf7K2LbpnFEQJEZgCeIyz4J10VwqHfyuhCack7k8ialyIAoLM0 xFWIZeLdXyhM1LQIgcDCuCuI =Ah7d -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Two Format Questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, August 08, 2000, 9:27:36 PM, Marck wrote: JA What would be your closest analogy for pasting? Is hitting the paste JA button the same as typing whatever you copied? Or is it like going to JA a magazine and physically ripping out the page and sticking it into JA your message? Both are correct, depending upon circumstance and context. Bad form, Marck, this was called a Dead Horse, what, three times by you now? Moderators breaking their own rules now? - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZFPxnpf7K2LbpnFEQL6VwCfXiSvdfv1x3XVuTCJroI3e4QhOP8AoO76 8yRy+HLbJx1nZUUUOULxZyua =qpzD -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Next/Prev action at end of list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, August 08, 2000, 10:48:21 PM, Curtis wrote: machine as we speak for cripes sake. I know exactly what you're both referring to. Just what is your problem Steve??!! My problem is most people get it wrong. There is no problems with the behavior it has. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZFQJ3pf7K2LbpnFEQK2oQCdESa76k+RuOHXJbjAj/F+JF5hkoYAoKGY i9gPJhf/x5NnPifJMMkcFwII =D2Ik -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Next/Prev action at end of list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, August 08, 2000, 10:53:37 PM, Curtis wrote: We aren't being critical of PMMails method. We are defending TB!'s method. There's a difference there you know. Right. PMMail correct. TB! incorrect. Reasons given months ago. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZFQR3pf7K2LbpnFEQKOaQCg8G+aiAniN8D2okKzjFaJtvgOiI8AoI2S hns3iCQSyPgHj0HT1xI216uX =a277 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Too many windows
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, August 08, 2000, 10:55:04 PM, Marc wrote: Just a quick questions.. what does MDI stand for? (I know what it is, being a longtime Eudora User.. but I was curious) Multi-document interface. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZFQWnpf7K2LbpnFEQLTNgCdHeY4oQ3NLtjaCdbcqzkgmKzeSvwAoOPM 3Hk1Av9Ck3ETsuEsme+Mjp4o =7vqb -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: text editor to remove duplicate lines?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 12:35:08 AM, Jamie wrote: Grep.com was supplied free with all versions of Borland C and C++ as well as Pascal from version 3 onwards . I'm not sure it has the same options, however. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZFRJ3pf7K2LbpnFEQK/BwCg0o0mOma6jUzGhX0vROXAnlgxNCUAnjkz XVNfAeU+3DXdmLM0/k3Gfs5k =BYYy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: text editor to remove duplicate lines?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 5:45:48 AM, Oliver wrote: grep aol file die.scum Ah, very correct. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZFXCHpf7K2LbpnFEQJqBwCg4o7XTUS39DlBcPuZ0B+HVaYBx9YAoMAC RA3VNxTqznzqJHSqh5T0IslK =yCHW -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Too many windows
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 6:05:02 AM, Nick wrote: In Reference to "Too many windows" From Steve Lamb: S Mainly because there is a utility out there that groups like S windows together under a single start bar button What, you gonna make us beg?? Spill the beans my man. Quick before the drool coming out of my mouth fouls the keyboard! Hold on, let me go check winfiles.com. They've really gone downhill lately. I think they are flying on autopilot. Bah, anyway... http://www.hace.us-inc.com/texecute.shtml Heh, it was in "desktop launchers". Go figure. Just like the Email clients are now stuffed full of spamware. Ah well, that should take you right to the page with it. I'd use it but at 1600x1200 w/6 desktops I keep the startbar clutter free by spreading the work over the desktops (which is why MDI doesn't work for me, can't move just one window elsewhere) and just have the start bar two "bars" wide. At this resolution the lost desktop real estate isn't really all that much. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZFY7Xpf7K2LbpnFEQK/FACfe23v2BG1J8scfGl2ss9yn12IEk8AoJfX 2DZ9AGcYBkJpGfo6v/XJqUs5 =bqiF -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Question regarding case (in)senisitivity in Reg Exp filters
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 6:25:49 AM, Mike wrote: (?i)make money fast will screen for that string of text on a case-insensitive basis. Is that correct? This is why I wish RIT would release docs on how TB! uses PCRE. For me I'd always use the case insensitive flag at the end, eg: /make money fast/i However, I'm not sure if TB! uses the / markers like Perl does and I'm not familiar with PCRE's internal way of doing it, either. At a guess, though, it sounds correct. If nothing else there is a quick way to test, send yourself a message with the string that should be matched and find out. :) - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZFck3pf7K2LbpnFEQIOTwCcD9uL/Kq1bC83ESTytQmOBtPqq6EAoN1d QbVb8Cv8nLAatWzEp81zBgLK =r7V5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Too many windows
On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 06:57:49AM -0700, Ming-Li wrote: preserving Alt-Tab for application switching. With SDI, it might take forever to switch to another application with Alt-Tab, forcing you to use mouse. (Not that I hate mouse, mind you.) You know, the only time I've ever used alt-tab to switch between applications is in Asheron's Call when I want to look at the where I am in ACTracker. That is because AC is a full screen application. Aside from that it is a useless key, IMHO. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Quotes macro (Was: Re: thebat! 1.46 beta)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 10:06:42 AM, Curtis wrote: LOT. :-) One thing though, it requires practice like a spoken language. Yes, it does. Just like spoken language it can also get very complex, esp. when one considers there are different "dialects" of regex (Posix and Perl). If the list is interested, and moderators willing, I can provide a practical example of that from a recent programming project. If your not going to really use it a lot, it's probably not worth the effort. I've forgotten most of what I read. I'm going to have a go at it again since I bought the darned thing. g I find that I do that a lot with the different languages I've picked up over time. Esperanto I've mostly forgotten though I am determined to learn it eventually. Perl took me 2-3 starts to digest it to a usable state. Some portions of Perl (hashes and regex) also took several tries before I was able to work with them effectively. I will say this about regex, once you learn them and use them you find that there are a lot of uses for them that you never would have thought of before. Esp. when it comes to complex search and replace operations or parsing, well, regular expressions in language which are not easily parsed by simpler functions in computer languages. An example, the above one in fact, are dice codes for RPGs. :) - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZGTHnpf7K2LbpnFEQKIgACeINqLaXnMSFqldwY197ppw/SbzAcAn3pt eH/CDuwo6xb8lno3Tm1RBEBJ =tR85 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Next/Prev action at end of list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 9:52:21 AM, Curtis wrote: to another folder using ShiftCtrlG or Navigation - Go to Folder. OTOH, I'd want PMMail's browse windows to disappear when I'm finished browsing a list because there's nothing else to do with the browse Depends on your point of view, isn't it? I see it as that command is needed because the view folder window doesn't do the sane thing and close itself so you can pick another from the main list. So instead of auto-closing, as it should, it stays there and they needed to add a kludgy function to get around that shortcoming. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZGTaXpf7K2LbpnFEQI52ACg+GJFigvLb82Nts8CjKSqLCSf4LUAn0Un kg6LCiEsrYr9SomSXxWq7zS2 =y6ZS -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Quotes macro (Was: Re: thebat! 1.46 beta)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 10:27:29 AM, Curtis wrote: but still have enough retained to do basic stuff. That's the plan. What do you think? g Good plan overall. I don't use much of the power of regex but what I do use is quite handy. I know my regex could use a LOT of tuning. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZGYH3pf7K2LbpnFEQKl5ACePWEyYBFW1b2yJLDWG8foE+vAFWMAoKrk TLtHlIKk18d5dCv2c+AzvR8j =57Oc -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Next/Prev action at end of list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 11:01:28 AM, Curtis wrote: Being able to change to a different folder using shiftctrlg is a kludgy function? I say no to that. TB! is just different in approach. And a wrong one. As I said months ago, it does something unexpected and illogical and that /bug/ should be fixed. nudge Get used to it and if you can't then use PMMail which offers your preferred approach. That's why there is choice. /nudge. :-) Nah, I prefer to get the client to actually work right. You may feel the need to work around bugs in the software, I do not. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZGffHpf7K2LbpnFEQL83ACfT/WutEXgDhgFncVH3JJSP+w4gpEAn25x WWvaToceuUkDG4CE7nDwAkCC =o9Ad -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Next/Prev action at end of list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 11:08:48 AM, Curtis wrote: another for all other folders. The only reason I'd check the main window at times for would be to see the amount of unread messages left in the folder I was browsing. Ungh. If I wanted to read like that I'd switch to Pine or Mutt and be done with it. Total lack of any indication of where new mail is? Nasty, nasty, nasty. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZGgmHpf7K2LbpnFEQIAdACg3mbP9zOkxZCvhc/pGaRZrQ69e3gAoOkG xfh1prgaCfekTMpiXaE8u1Ur =sn3V -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Next/Prev action at end of list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 11:32:11 AM, Curtis wrote: If the software doesn't do things the way you prefer it to, it's buggy on that account? Isn't that stretching what the term 'bug' means? :-) Do you consider suboptimal implementation of a feature to be a bug? No, I term something that does something unexpected a bug. "Del and up" deleting the current message and bringing up the message from below is certainly not "Delete and up", now is it? Nor is "Del and down" deleting and showing the message from above. Those are exact opposite of what was requested. Usually when something like that happens, it is called a bug, no? - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZGn2Hpf7K2LbpnFEQLipQCdH2cRWVESSGjNfJSxTUwfvftdZ9QAn0q8 QQSciDRsRAQCbhNiXmBd13yL =MmQt -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Next/Prev action at end of list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 12:03:43 PM, Marck wrote: Definition time: a bug is a _fault_ in the implementation of a piece of software (the coding) which renders it inoperable or breaks design constraints within which the software should be operating. Right. "Delete and move up" brings up the message /below/ the one listed. What part of that doesn't conform to the above definition? None of it. It is a /bug/ even by your very own definition. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZG953pf7K2LbpnFEQIUJgCgqYeitEAtfjFsHeClCg2guJRy4E8Anihz qhswcnTeKe4Zg8ht4sdZTBRJ =d0cs -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Next/Prev action at end of list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 12:23:21 PM, Curtis wrote: the weasel with me. g Why deviate the discussion and bring the above bug into the picture. Of course that's a bug! I agree entirely and I have indicated this both on list a lng time ago and also to Ritlabs. Then we're in agreement that the window should be closed since you just stated it was a bug. Thank you for finally coming to reason. Back to what we were talking about. How is TB!'s not closing the view folder window when you reach the end of the list a bug? You just said it was a bug. PMMail, which makes automatic closure of the window inappropriate and presumptuous.. No, leaving it there leads to confusion, is contrary to the expected and requested behavior, and is therefore a BUG. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZG+uHpf7K2LbpnFEQJS3QCeJtoZugb4OeDa4NUjxOyETK+YttgAoPbz Gxf5i4GNvOqBLNbFg3XC0ZbS =Hyg3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Too many windows
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 12:22:36 PM, Kenneth wrote: One deficiency in PMMail is that if I select another folder from the main window and then select next message from the reading window, the reading window closes, instead of reading the next message from the folder it was originally associated with. I'd prefer to have several reader windows each navigating different folders. Not true. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZG+23pf7K2LbpnFEQLiiACfdERwk68HsoQildfmcg4f6EXKy5gAn3bY 5I3tNeDXwRinTwCPhTB1A9wu =3O/j -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Next/Prev action at end of list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 1:23:03 PM, Marck wrote: That is only because you happen to have the main Window open. Curtis and I (and others who haven't yet mentioned that they work this way) don't. TB stays in the tool tray most of the time. Too bad you can't have TB! in the tool tray even when it is open. change the way *we* use TB? Why should we want that to happen? Because it is, uh, ohhh, a BUG? Just because people exploit a bug in a creative way doesn't make it any less a bug. I would also venture to suggest that, with limited screen real estate (which I know Steve doesn't suffer) You'd be surprised as to how I've used TB! and PMMail and in what resolutions. Quite frankly, on small screens, like a laptops, I use Mutt which is a far cry better than the hack in TB!'s view folder window. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZHDCXpf7K2LbpnFEQLNDwCgkJZU+M0KtHqwoG6jb48mukos0BMAn20H ZCO4N7GMJ7ZRGhHq8sZMnKl6 =b/6m -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB vs. PMMail
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 2:38:05 PM, Curtis wrote: KP Found this. Why would one select text and *not* want this to happen by KP default? Why the special keystroke? Ask Steve Lamb about this. He was the main voice of reason behind your question. :-) Voice of reason? I'll have to remember that. KP What kinds of things are you doing in TB that PMMail lacks? Threading. The folder sorting is adjustable on a per folder basis. I'd kill to not have to remove flagging and having to adjust the size of the columns for every folder. The editor is a big plus for me: I'm able to reformat quoted text on the fly, even ones with complex quote prefixes. TB! also never reflows text on sending which is very useful. PMMails WYSIWYG option is really shoddy compared to this. I'm able to adjust how I select text blocks in different ways. On the status bar of the editor, right click the word 'stream' and you'll be offered other ways of selecting text blocks. Try them. :-) Nah, I'd rather have vim. Oh, , ouch, that external editor thing strikes again. Filtering in TB! has more to offer than PMMail. Take a good look through those options. I'm not saying that TB! will do everything that PMMail will do with filtering either. *cough*bullpoo*cough* Filtering on TB! is very, VERY messy and lacking compared to PMMail. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZHWt3pf7K2LbpnFEQLGCwCgnP52ZwBt3ocDY23TZtGoxO9jOoMAoPRu jFhCG09YF3obVbIK9oMGNZac =6TCz -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Two Format Questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 2:22:00 PM, Joe wrote: Correction, Kenneth. No one but you, apparently. Others were mentioned. But is two days really enough time to fairly evaluate a program? Especially a program as quirky as TB is? Thing is it shouldn't be quirky. Two days is enough time. As a perl hacker I recently started programming in python. To me python was quirky... compared to perl. After two days of intense discussion with python programmers on the python newsgroup I found out that my ideas were quirk and python was actually rather logical. I've used TB! for over a year and it is still quirky. It has half-buns implementation all over the place whereas the slick stuff is on features used by less than 5% of the population. Expected behavior of a lot of "features" is only expected after you've been bitten by it 20 times. For example, the non-inheritance of the main window's sort upon the opening of a view folder window. It is stupid that it isn't set when opened since that is what the person is looking at. As a result it forces the user to leave open the message list view and waste screen real-estate just so they can match the sorting of what they just saw in the main window. It is nice that they are independent, though, so one can redo sorting on the child window as needed. I'm certainly no power user, but with all its quirks (and there are many!), TB is head and shoulders better than, say, Eudora Pro, which I used for many years. No, I don't know anything about PMMail. Anything is better than Eudora Pro. However, trust me, PMMail, which hasn't been seriously updated in close to two years, is nearly as powerful as TB! is and a lot less quirky. That's saying a lot. Also in several different polls PMMail was a /VERY/ close second only to TB!. In some cases the two swapped #1 several times. Know what that tells me? It tells me that if a program that has gone basically unsupported for almost 2 years is that close to a program that has 15-20 releases in same time-frame RITLABS really needs to sit down and consider what they are doing wrong that they are /still/ playing catchup to PMMail. For me it is obvious: Quirks. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZHZknpf7K2LbpnFEQIylwCeKiAH5US2ZklU9oiUQnxSV1o9tUIAoLy4 oDHDE9MIirL62tfUeYqghQch =fMWl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Selective quoting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 3:04:49 PM, Kenneth wrote: As I've said elsewhere, this should be a configurable default to satisfy our different work styles. It is configurable. You know you're going to quote selected, hit F4. Personally my suggestion for the mice users in the crowd is that they make the reply button have a down arrow like the other buttons on the main tool bar which has those options there. Trust me, there are special replies that I use as well and find the keyboard shortcut as well as the proposed GUI modification sufficient without getting into the feaperism of a multitude of checkboxes. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZHf6Xpf7K2LbpnFEQKtBACcDDDrX64TwGhnd/kVkOKUj3G5VR8AoIhY bTlm2AZnmsCKn01lDaW8QXSP =8cLb -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Two Format Questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 2:55:04 PM, Curtis wrote: I fill in the addressing etc and then hit the use external editor button. Or just hit return in the subject field. The part I dislike is having to close the editor each time, for each message. Seems perfectly natural to me. You're done with the editor, shut it down. Unless you're using something like Word or Emacs which takes years to start up I fail to see the problem with having the editor start up and shut down each time. After the first time it is most likely in the cache. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZHgnnpf7K2LbpnFEQL9CwCgjRLvEPy/F666NKhULzWDKlC9MzQAoM8o k8XXKOjR+WJdAR3C9OAHcDnl =bJ2E -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Selective quoting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 2:53:08 PM, Kenneth wrote: Okay, Steve, what was your argument against selective quoting (ie. the F4 function)? Sent to you before you even asked this question. ;) argument on this list seems to be over what should be the default, when this can easily be addressed by making the default configurable.) Which is, in itself, a discussion. Having had used Terminate in my old BBS days I can say that putting to much in default dialogs like that causes problems in and of itself. At some point, on a lot of features, you have to choose a default and then stick with it but provide easy access to the other options. For those that don't know Terminate had 3-4 80x50 /pages/ of checkboxes to control its behavior. It was a mess to configure because of the sheer volume of what was configurable. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZHhJHpf7K2LbpnFEQJn9QCgvYQcSnT0J88O54AcdEsjjxK81HIAoIo8 EkATuMANBBNjEyV/E7S/4j/p =L6YT -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Too many windows
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 2:49:01 PM, Kenneth wrote: What are you doing different? I'm reading your message in my "Software\TheBat" folder, go back to the PMMail main window and select a message in the "Software\PMMail" folder, and then back on the message window select "Next Message". The window closes, rather than going to the next TBUDL message (there are 8 left to read at this point). This is one case where I have to give the point to TB, for preserving separate list context for each reader window. To be honest, I'm not sure. I dropped PMMail about a year ago because of the lack of movement from Southsoft (HA!) on updates. BSW hasn't been any better although there is supposed to be an announcement from Thomas Bradford to the PMMail list I host regarding PMMail before the end of the month. With that said I distinctly remember having the main window in a different folder than a reading window and being able to read up/down in that window until I hit the ends like normal. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZHhsnpf7K2LbpnFEQKAjwCg2k/+F3BbhgpkZEP/e9+WNFwBBaAAmwXH KxvA9HEJc3G6eTo57LFoaVaJ =ozhC -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Next/Prev action at end of list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 3:45:22 PM, Curtis wrote: Urhm, yes. What use exactly have I found for this bug? Stop being dishonest Steve. The bug, Allie, is not closing upon hitting the end of a list. You know that as well as I do. Stop lying yourself. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZHzi3pf7K2LbpnFEQIz8wCgpN4dHSzeFDYyY6gTyyRG6yOnOusAoNvU QJcFHSZxmZegBT5JhRz/pYqz =zbuW -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Two Format Questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 4:11:30 PM, Curtis wrote: Even if you're using an MDI editor where you can close a particular document and save it? Why would anyone use an MDI editor in the first place? It offers only limitations over SDI editors. I have a problem with it personally. Why can't the send action be made to close the editor? How is it supposed to? Why does the header configuration window disappear before the editor window appears anyway? I dunno, Allie, to edit the headers maybe? Seemed like a no brainer to me. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZH0M3pf7K2LbpnFEQKfGACgkQji1tBSbiR/PJQePOL4cGg4qtMAoIoo gX8HMZaK3l+yKITp6j0O3H/y =7ERd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Next/Prev action at end of list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 3:59:19 PM, Marck wrote: No need. You did not originate this thread nor was any of it in response to your initial attempt to divert it. Please, do I have to send you a screen shot of the threaded view in my trash? Your reply was in a line that had me in it 5 times over. talking about something else. If you're having a different conversation than the rest of us in this thread be kind enough not to be as rude as you have been in this posting, understand that you are mistaken and back out gracefully (yeah, I know ... pigs might fly). Yeah, pigs will fly before you, as moderator of the list, would ever admit to any wrong doing, huh? Like posting to a DEAD HORSE thread that /YOU/ declared three times in a manner other than to reiterate its status? No, you'd /NEVER/ do that, would you? Subject: Re: Next/Prev action at end of list *not* Subject: Old Del up/down bug revisited. Right. What did it start off with? With the observation from a PMMail user that TB! does not close the window when it gets to the end of the message list. What /does/ do instead, Marck, HM? Do I have to fscking spell it out for you? IT OPENS UP ANOTHER MESSAGE, MOST NOTABLE THE ONE BELOW OR ABOVE THE CURRENT /OPPOSITE/ DIRECTION SELECTED! YES, MARCK, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR BUNS BECAUSE THIS MEANS THE TWO ARE ONE AND THE SAME! YOU'RE ONLY TOO PIG-HEADED TO REALIZE IT!! THE BEHAVIOR OF ONE CAUSES THE OTHER!! THEY ARE THE SAME!!! I have been clear at every juncture. You have only diverted and obfuscated. Let's just leave it. We can't even agree to disagree because we aren't even talking about the same thing. We are talking about the same thing, you're just being intentionally ignorant on the matter. Hopefully the above cleared it up for you or do I have to draw diagrams use smaller words for you? You will not goad me to say any more on this. Wanna bet? - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZH1sXpf7K2LbpnFEQKkkgCgzfCPIYWVctlEK88J/iQSO50M5XsAoLwu R5JHg6VMoGXly4TI5X1WculO =tHdG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB vs. PMMail
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 4:51:12 PM, Kenneth wrote: I think a large part of my problem is the sparse and inconsistent help (admittedly a problem with many programs). Is this another case of an undocumented feature? Well, given that regex aren't even mentioned in the index, I'd say yes. Point there, for Marck since he is being an ignorant twit today, is that if a rich feature is omitted from the overall index and, at best, given lip service then chances are the lesser features are completely forgotten. Cool, I'd love to simplify my huge filter list like this. How does such a filter look in TB? Compared to PMMail with its complex filters? Horrible. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZH2h3pf7K2LbpnFEQIsLACgxq3U/F5ZTwxnDa8tYyQvmrb1zG0AnRf0 w63SsWEIlzVlFoxqgX3fdRe7 =h+Py -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Next/Prev action at end of list
On Thu, Aug 10, 2000 at 11:56:47AM +0800, Thomas Fernandez wrote: What is wrong with you today Steve? Marck is referring to the closing feature that you would like, not about the del-up bug. I'm just wondering why everyone things they are different when they are one and the same. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Signing of Messages (Was: Re: List server rules)
On Tue, Aug 08, 2000 at 01:17:26AM +0100, Deryk Lister wrote: Not really. S/MIME insists on including the entire certificate, whilst the PGP version (key) has the nice friendly download-it-manually method :) You're joking, right? That has GOT to be a joke. Who the hell would make a bonehead move like that? -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Signing of Messages (Was: Re: List server rules)
On Tue, Aug 08, 2000 at 08:45:12AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OTH, PGP 6.5.1.i is a 8.1mb download (i just did) and needs 15mb of hard disk space ... a S/MIME certificate is a couple of 100 bytes and just imports into the address book. just sayin' ... it all depends on wether you got disk space or bandwidth to spare ;-) 8.1Mb once for something reasonable or ~3k per message forever? Hmmm... After 2730 messages the SLIME signatures would take over. Think that is a lot? Here are the stats for the last 10 days on my machine. Exim statistics from 2000-07-28 07:36:18 to 2000-08-06 07:35:12 Grand total summary --- At least one address TOTAL VolumeMessagesHosts Delayed Failed Received 21MB6349 172 208 3.3%220 3.5% Delivered 94MB 38419 394 And later on we get to see where some of those messages are delivered to. Top 50 local destinations by message count -- 3342 10336340 grey 21357289427 vamprys In 10 days I beat that 2730 messages easily and my roommate has come close. Personally, give me PGP with its /option/ to send the cert in each message (checked to OFF thank you with an electric shock upon people attempting to set it on) and a small signature each message versus SLIME where, in wide use, a larger volume day in and day out. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: OT? S/MIME PGP (inspired by: Re[2]: List server rules)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, August 08, 2000, 7:43:48 AM, David wrote: Anyone could forge a PGP key, if you manage to give fake details to Thawte it says they can sue you for about 10,000 dollars or something crazy. No, noone can force a PGP key. If you think so, please, go ahead and try to forge any of mine. I'm confident it won't be happening this week. Study up on the web of trust before stating it is so easy. I still think that the most acceptable solution would be to send an S/MIME signature without sending the PGP key, which would be comparable in size to a PGP signature, and much more elegant. HUH? You're not making sense here. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZAlvHpf7K2LbpnFEQI3ogCffTebMj64XRixw8/yFoViP5Cg0dQAoI0R I7I9MAMvqVp11wPMgsrg+uj7 =Y8Op -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Signing of Messages (Was: Re: List server rules)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, August 08, 2000, 7:43:44 AM, David wrote: would not only need to download that persons key to check their signature, but you would also need to phone them or something, to check if the key really belongs to them. How many people here would want to do this. A PGP signature is useless otherwise - I could easily generate a key in someone elses name, and then even upload it to a keyserver. Go ahead, do it. You're completely forgetting the web of trust. We don't need to verify the identity of each person on the list, we only need to trust people who sign the keys who have verified the people on the list /or/ form a keyring with standards of acceptance which provide a reasonable assurance the person is who they say they are when they submit the key. Look at the Debian project and the PGP keys in use there. To get to be a Debian developer you need to provide legal documents, go through a phone interview /or/ be met, in person, by another Debian developer. That provides a reasonable assurance that the keyring Debian provides has a high chance, just as high if not HIGHER than Thawte keys, that the people contained in it are real. Furthermore, I meet one person, verify his key, we sign each other's keys (since we've met) and now we can trust each other's signatures on /other/ keys. That is what the web of trust provides. I trust that much more than some corporation out there who can be paid to put a stamp on something. I prefer a 2.8K attachment with the signature, than the amount of visual noise created be a PGP message (not forgetting the "you can download my key at blahh..." bit. Uhm, the visual noise can be filtered out by the client. See PMMail2k Pro for this. purpose, a 2.8K attachment is a bit on the big side it does at least do it's job, the few hundred bytes of a PGP signature do nothing for me. Because you chose to ignore what PGP has built up. Providing the SLIME key in the message does nothing. "I signed this, really, see, here's my cert, right here to verify along with the message." That is like not signing your credit card, signing it in front of the clerk, and having them accept that when they compare it against your signature on the receipt! S/MIME is well designed, and I wouldn't knock it. SLIME is completely worthless in my view from what I've seen. There are no assurances at all of people being who they say they are. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZAnp3pf7K2LbpnFEQI2uQCdFvcn8hA165VAUn/tjGI/vOEm844AnAkK LHfSaBT2ZavTYDJOb5rdSwhP =cz3J -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Signing of Messages (Was: Re: List server rules)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, August 08, 2000, 8:20:58 AM, Deryk wrote: I don't think Microsoft invented S/MIME (which would explain everything as well) but they were certainly behind it a lot. Certainly reason right there to ignore it. WTF was RIT thinking when they implemented it? That energy should have been put into a decent PGP implementation. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZAn6npf7K2LbpnFEQKkfwCggwvhUkWv4hcOCDt9YQ/kRJ3KgsAAn0Wg JY7zLXIx3hu8GjpiDX2Vy+lf =aCHN -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: text editor to remove duplicate lines?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, August 02, 2000, 12:32:56 PM, Jamie wrote: SL The GNU text utils would work wonders here. SL type file | sort | uniq file.new SL Sort will put them all in order and then uniq will return only a single SL occurance of any repeating line. It's time to get your copy of C++ or Pascal out. Ultraedit won't cut it and I've never used GNU text editing tools. I'll have a look into it, if I think it'll take less than an hour or three I'll have a go. Just please don't expect miracles. I'm usually reasonably busy. Oy. Am I the only one who can do it three different ways? The above is simplest, get the GNU tools, install run it at the command line replacing "file" and "file.new". Done in just a few minutes. Or I could do it in Perl or Python. I fail to see why anyone would have to pull out a compiled language to do something so trivial. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZBzEnpf7K2LbpnFEQKPwgCfYAwRqOeOF8zMJVhENiJD9LtjdrIAn120 CwqMJ2D3xFh3z4uP5EnlUlhR =10of -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Two Format Questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, August 08, 2000, 2:47:52 PM, Joe wrote: Then, if you asked us again whether we would ever want TB to do this for us automatically, and without the need for an external editor, the reply would be "You betcha! Not on your life. There are certain things that a program should not do without explicit instructions. Reformatting, (different than /formatting/) is one of them. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA+AwUBOZCCn3pf7K2LbpnFEQK4JgCfQtcX3rW3Z9LqSXb5rUnBbWCnujoAmMnx 43doAGN5uvoVhdvg1rMBWI0= =wOvB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
