Re: Difference(s) Between The Bat! 3.0's Two Versions
Hello, Mica! Thank you very much for your response to the message that I posted to you on TBUDL (13 October 2004)! On Monday, 1 November 2004 2:31 PM, Mica Mijatovic wrote: MM ...No, *I* have to apologize, since the missive of MM mine I am prone to accept as the well of confusion, MM partly due to my deep thoughts, and partly due to MM my shallow English I try to express them and offer MM to the world by. MM MM My best wishes to you. (: I appreciate the detail and courtesy of your reply, Mica! I do not feel that you owe me an apology. :-) I thank you for your best wishes -- and I extend mine to you and your loved ones! Such occasional confusion is to be expected on a discussion list with people from all over the world writing in English, which may not necessarily their native language. Your English is certainly not shallow, Mica, and I offer my congratulations to your on your clearly written message, about which you obviously gave much serious thought. I think that, for the most part, we excuse each other for such misunderstandings in an electronic and international community, such as TBUDL. (We should strive for such a goal, at the very least.) I am very ignorant about The Bat! and I am still evaluating the program. The evaluation has become problematic primarily because of two factors, which I will address in a separate message to the list. Thank you, again, Mica. You are truly a gentleman, and your deep thoughts are an admirable quality and an asset to our discussions! :-) With warmest regards -- Cordially, David -- http://ddickerson.igc.org/ _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Difference(s) Between The Bat! 3.0's Two Versions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ***^\ ._)~~ ~( __ _o Was another beautiful day, Fri, 15 Oct 2004, @ @ at 22:46:15 -0500, when David M. Dickerson wrote: Hello, Mica! David. On Wednesday, 13 October 2004, Mica Mijatovic wrote: MM ...Ah, I forgot to add: between ethics and health, I always choose MM health. Although I did not understand some parts of your post, Mica (forgive me), I never would try to tell another person which flavor of The Bat! she or he is ethically or legally entitled to use. Each of us is free to choose, of course, and I am just trying to make a decision based upon my own set of criteria. Absolutely correct POW IMHO. If my message sounded differently then it's not most probably written in an adequate way. Such a decision is a personal one. Absolutely. The very same I tried to depict but it simply didn't work. I accept it as my fault and my lack of eloquence. As I say, the people who run major shareware companies in Ukraine and Russia, and use the personal edition of The Bat! are good friends of mine, and I make no judgements. The fact that they use the personal edition is of no concern to me. I see. Which edition *I* decide to register and use (despite personal difficult economic times right now) is, of course, my concern. Well, yes, you are right. As we say in English, I was thinking out loud in my post to TBUDL about my personal ethics and which edition of The Bat! I should register. I guess that this thinking out loud of yours was the reason I misunderstood it as a wish for a communication, since this thinking appeared on a public list. I am sincerely sorry if I did interrupt it and bumped in just so bluntly, and since people here also have exactly same expression, I fully understand possible effects coming from the flexible threshold of the speech. Given the lack of a manual for The Bat! and the situation with user support, users of The Bat!, regardless of which edition they use, need very important resources such as TBUDL. Yes, I agree. This is still most valuable place as to the tech support, and definitely quite unique, since it is maintained by the users themselves to the surprising degree, if not even in its entirety. I personally feel that a strong sense of us being a community is an added benefit that makes the TBUDL even more valuable, because I know from my own personal experience that we can enrich each other's lives in such on-line discussions, as well as help each other solve problems and learn how to use The Bat! most effectively. I could only second this. You depicted it quite finely and with a pleasant amount of warmth. (Okay, I admit that I am an idealist.) ;-) It's quite acceptable, at least for me personally, and I appreciate any sort of efforts. We certainly are in agreement about mangy gratis parakeets, Mica, which I assume is your metaphor for Outlook Express. Yes, it is, you are right. I am evaluating The Bat! as a replacement for Outlook XP/2002, for which I paid as part of Office XP Professional. OK. Security obviously is a concern that all of us share. Yes, definitely. (One of my peeves about most of the mail that I get from Oulook users is the assumption that I want all of the bloat of MS-HTML messages; I kind of miss the early days when my choice for an e-mail message editor was 'pico' or 'vi' -- text only, either way.) I agree again. Lots of unwilling situations are often born from bad assumptions. When you mentioned pico and vi, I just wonder, but quite slightly, unwilling to interrupt any existing harmony, have you tried perhaps Open Office? It is an excellent and high quality Office suite, and additionally it's completely free. If you'd run it under Linux, you would again be in situation to be encircled by a natural environment of pico and vi. I apologize if my musings about ethics offended or upset you in any way, Mica. Nonononono... (: It was completely my bad estimation coming from my inability to understand the situation, which moved me to jump in in your conversation with yourself. (: Absolutely there is no any element in anything you had written which could offend anyone, including me as well. I really should have kept my musings to myself. Ah, if the birds would announce every move they make, perhaps we would not adore them that much. (: After all, TBUDL is not a discussion list about philosophy. ;-) I am convinced that they will forgive us, the sinners we are. You see, we yet didn't get any smelly fish. (: Finally, I probably should not have brought up Percy Bysshe Shelley in a message about moral issues. I love Shelley's poetry, but his personal life should probably not be a role model for anyone concerned about ethics. ;-) I agree. The reverend Bookkeeper would fit in there much better. I'm getting *way* off topic, Mica, so I will apologize again, and wish you the best! No, *I* have to apologize, since the missive of mine I am
Re: Difference(s) Between The Bat! 3.0's Two Versions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ***^\ ._)~~ ~( __ _o Was another beautiful day, Sat, 09 Oct 2004, @ @ at 11:28:10 -0500, when David M. Dickerson wrote: Ever since the release of The Bat! 3.0, I have been wondering what the difference(s) between the home and professional versions is (are) -- besides the obvious difference of price, of course. They are twins, except that Pro version has a secret seed of Pro features which will sprout in the future. - -- Mica PGP key uploaded at: http://pgp.mit.edu/ once just before breakfast [Earth LOG: 38 day(s) since v3.0 unleashing] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iD8DBQFBcaGR9q62QPd3XuIRAu69AJ4xxSK0apnojidt5Qql/qxiKY8jjACglytB q4zZ2FgpQYVUoBEUfTqyo/w= =vWgu -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Difference(s) Between The Bat! 3.0's Two Versions
Hello, Mica! On Wednesday, 13 October 2004, Mica Mijatovic wrote: MM ...Ah, I forgot to add: between ethics and health, MM I always choose health. Although I did not understand some parts of your post, Mica (forgive me), I never would try to tell another person which flavor of The Bat! she or he is ethically or legally entitled to use. Each of us is free to choose, of course, and I am just trying to make a decision based upon my own set of criteria. Such a decision is a personal one. As I say, the people who run major shareware companies in Ukraine and Russia, and use the personal edition of The Bat! are good friends of mine, and I make no judgements. The fact that they use the personal edition is of no concern to me. Which edition *I* decide to register and use (despite personal difficult economic times right now) is, of course, my concern. As we say in English, I was thinking out loud in my post to TBUDL about my personal ethics and which edition of The Bat! I should register. Given the lack of a manual for The Bat! and the situation with user support, users of The Bat!, regardless of which edition they use, need very important resources such as TBUDL. I personally feel that a strong sense of us being a community is an added benefit that makes the TBUDL even more valuable, because I know from my own personal experience that we can enrich each other's lives in such on-line discussions, as well as help each other solve problems and learn how to use The Bat! most effectively. (Okay, I admit that I am an idealist.) ;-) We certainly are in agreement about mangy gratis parakeets, Mica, which I assume is your metaphor for Outlook Express. I am evaluating The Bat! as a replacement for Outlook XP/2002, for which I paid as part of Office XP Professional. Security obviously is a concern that all of us share. (One of my peeves about most of the mail that I get from Oulook users is the assumption that I want all of the bloat of MS-HTML messages; I kind of miss the early days when my choice for an e-mail message editor was 'pico' or 'vi' -- text only, either way.) I apologize if my musings about ethics offended or upset you in any way, Mica. I really should have kept my musings to myself. After all, TBUDL is not a discussion list about philosophy. ;-) Finally, I probably should not have brought up Percy Bysshe Shelley in a message about moral issues. I love Shelley's poetry, but his personal life should probably not be a role model for anyone concerned about ethics. ;-) I'm getting *way* off topic, Mica, so I will apologize again, and wish you the best! Cordially, David -- Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue... _ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Difference(s) Between The Bat! 3.0's Two Versions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ***^\ ._)~~ ~( __ _o Was another beautiful day, Tue, 12 Oct 2004, @ @ at 22:51:47 -0500, when David M. Dickerson wrote: Although I correspond with several successful shareware developers/sellers in Russia and Ukraine who use the personal edition of The Bat!, it would be unethical (and illegal) of me to register the personal version and to continue using it if I actually started to earn any money again with my consulting (although I am focused on finding a salaried job). Might be I didn't understand just each point in your message, but, if I receive an offer for a job by e-mail, and if I send them some parts of this work back, or in entirety, which is done in any other application - does that mean that I should register professional version of TB? Am I guilty if people offers me jobs using my e-mail address? Should I send then my work to them using some other mailer? There, now you have even more ethical dilemmas. (-: Apart from this, I notice that TB is very, very exceptionally uncommonly rarely used in companies, as official mailer, therefore the professional one. (We know which mailer, outspread like a plague, is used in a such role, and it's coming as free one, together with the paid OS. That is, if you buy a camel, you get a mangy parakeet gratis. And since we all use TB, we all own a camel or two as well, therefore the mangy gratis parakeets too.) So you see, some ethical dilemmas always exist. We are humans, we devised the ethics/moral (although the Cosmos/Universe perfectly works all the time without any moral or ethics), and we have to live with this, no matter what happens, therefore regardless that panta rei, that is, the Shelley, who loved equally ancient Greeks and old good Sanskrit literature. (: Since today is Wednesday, I think we should use our favorite mailers beyond good and evil, and if this helps somehow then it helps, although it might help even if it doesn't help just somehow but entirely, that is anyhow, actually the latter way of helping is even more helpful. That much. I wouldn't induce more confusion, then needed, even if I yearn for this. Forbearing is a property of Greats. (-: PS -- Ah, I forgot to add: between ethics and health, I always choose health. - -- Mica PGP key uploaded at: http://pgp.mit.edu/ once just before breakfast [Earth LOG: 42 day(s) since v3.0 unleashing] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iD8DBQFBbR1X9q62QPd3XuIRAgmcAJ9tFVO1ZMrOnokgf/pR2fmQankXIACdGSh/ GbYCC0FudB5qNc29nVhBTv4= =OwHz -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Difference(s) Between The Bat! 3.0's Two Versions
On Wednesday, October 13, 2004 Mica stated: M (We know which mailer, outspread like a plague, is M used in a such role, and it's coming as free one, together with the M paid OS. That is, if you buy a camel, you get a mangy parakeet gratis. M And since we all use TB, we all own a camel or two as well, therefore M the mangy gratis parakeets too.) I _LIKE_ that comparison. 'Tis one of the best I've seen. Thank you -- Cheers Yall \\' Running TB! version 3.0.1.33 under Windows XP 5.1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Difference(s) Between The Bat! 3.0's Two Versions
Hallo Mica, On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:19:36 +0200GMT (13-10-2004, 14:19 +0200, where I live), you wrote: MM And since we all use TB, we all own a camel or two as well, therefore MM the mangy gratis parakeets too. I like parakeets. :-) -- Groetjes, Roelof Smith Wesson: The original point and click interface. The Bat! 3.0.1 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN pgpvmuUE1OqCW.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Difference(s) Between The Bat! 3.0's Two Versions
Hello, Roelof! On Saturday, 9 October 2004, you wrote: RO http://www.ritlabs.com/kb/idx/44/076/article/ ...about the different between the professional and the home versions of The Bat! (I will have to do some research on eToken USB tokens.) Thank you very much for the information, Roelof! I would appreciate people's opinions about which version they have picked, via private e-mail, to prevent clogging up TBUDL. Thank you! I wonder why the Russian version of the Knowledge Base article got a higher rating than the English version? ;-) Cordially, David P.S. -- My evaluation copy of The Bat! 3.0 expires tomorrow, so I need to make a decision (with a budget of basically nothing, because of some temporary health problems). -- http://ddickerson.igc.org/ _ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx Current version is 3.00.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Difference(s) Between The Bat! 3.0's Two Versions
Hello, Vili! On Sunday, 10 October 2004, you wrote: KV ...I write the financial part: companies MUST KV buy professional version. Private persons can KV choose. Thank you for the information, Vili! Actually, it poses an ethical dilemma for me, and your point is very relevant. I started doing consulting back in 1996, creating Web sites for nonprofit and educational organizations: I also did some writing, editing, and desktop publishing, as well as a couple of short-term technical-writing contract jobs, documenting computer software. E-mail was critical in communicating with clients, although I was using Pine with UNIX for most of that time and was myself essentially nonprofit. ;-) The Web sites that I created were content-based and I hand-coded them in HTML with BBEdit, a text editor for the Macintosh. The nature of the Web changed and I got behind on my Web skills (although I did get to teach a Web workshop to teachers in Ukraine in 2000, which was a wonderful experience, and my first time to use The Bat!). Because of economic changes here in America, my nonprofit clients have not been able to offer me any projects for some time (although I am always open to volunteer work), and technical-writing opportunities in this region of the United States are incredibly rare right now. (I lost a full-time, salaried job because of outsourcing.) I apologize for giving my life's story, Vili, but as many wise people have noted, the only constant in life is change (mutability, as P.B. Shelley puts it in one poem). Although I correspond with several successful shareware developers/sellers in Russia and Ukraine who use the personal edition of The Bat!, it would be unethical (and illegal) of me to register the personal version and to continue using it if I actually started to earn any money again with my consulting (although I am focused on finding a salaried job). Your point is a major one, Vili, and I should register the professional version. The decision would be the right ethical one to make now (aside from the financial problem), and the legal one, in the future, should my situation change for the better. Thank you, Vili! Cordially, David -- http://ddickerson.igc.org/ _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ Current version is 3.00.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Difference(s) Between The Bat! 3.0's Two Versions
DMD Ever since the release of The Bat! 3.0, I have been DMD wondering what the difference(s) between the home DMD and professional versions is (are) -- besides the obvious DMD difference of price, of course. It is easy (for me) to answer. Ohh... Ok, I saw, someone already answered it. Then I write the financial part: companies MUST buy professional version. Private persons can choose. All the best, Vili -- Kertesz Vilmos Macasoft Bt. Hungarian dealer of TB! Current version is 3.00.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Difference(s) Between The Bat! 3.0's Two Versions
Hallo David, On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 11:28:10 -0500GMT (9-10-2004, 18:28 +0200, where I live), you wrote: DMD Ever since the release of The Bat! 3.0, I have been http://www.ritlabs.com/kb/idx/44/076/article/ -- Groetjes, Roelof Where's there's smoke, there's toast. The Bat! 3.0.1 RC6 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN pgpbj3jXlCYr6.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.00.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
